October 9, 2025 • 42 mins
When it comes to money, the issue isn’t just budgets or bank accounts—it’s identity and ownership. In Christ, we’re a new creation and God’s dwelling place, which means money is something we manage for the Owner. On the next Faith & Finance Live, Rob West and Dr. Derwin Gray explore what it looks like to live as God’s stewards. Then, it’s your calls and financial questions. That’s Faith & Finance Live, where biblical wisdom meets today’s finances—weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:08):
When it comes to money. The issue isn't just budgets
or bank accounts, it's identity and ownership. Hi, I'm Rob West.
In Christ, we're a new creation in God's dwelling place,
which means money is something we manage for the owner. Today,
we'll explore what it looks like to live as God's
stewards with Doctor Derwin Gray. Then it's on to your
phone calls at 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000.
(00:35):
This is faith and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your
financial journey. Well, what a treat to welcome Doctor Derwin Gray. Today,
he serves as the lead pastor of Transformation Church in
South Carolina, and is a compelling voice on what it
means to live as God's steward. Pastor Derwin, what an
honor to have you here, sir.
S2 (00:56):
Thank you guys. I'm so happy to be with you
guys are really looking forward to this show. Um, about
a year or so ago, I looked at our congregation
and I repented to them and I said, you know, guys,
I have not done a good enough job of teaching
you that your financial stewardship, your financial generosity is intrinsic
(01:19):
to worship and discipleship. And I'm going to do a
better job of equipping you. And, uh, it was utterly outstanding. Uh,
not only has given gone up, but faith has risen
up as well. So it's been it's been pretty awesome.
S1 (01:35):
Wow. You know, there's something about Doctor Gray to get
to what you're talking about here. Uh, the way we
handle money is often one of the primary ways God
shapes our spiritual journey. Because it's that tangible expression every
day of what we value and where we place our trust.
You know, the late Tim Keller said, among all the
counterfeit gods, perhaps money is the most common counterfeit God.
(01:59):
And so you're right. We need to deal with this.
And I believe the local church should be the ultimate
source of financial wisdom, because we know what God's Word
has to say. 2300 verses on this. Let's talk about
that difference between ownership and stewardship that we don't have
ownership rights. We have stewardship responsibilities. That's a big shift
(02:22):
in mindset. What are the implications of that?
S2 (02:25):
Well, it is it is a massive shift. I think
that even for Christians, it's important for us to understand,
number one, God doesn't want something from us. He wants
something for us. And what does he want for us?
He wants us to have a heart of generosity like his.
He wants us to be filled with love. He wants
(02:47):
us to not deal with idolatry. And so financial giving
and generosity and stewardship Courtship is I am a manager
of that which God has graciously given to me. And
it starts with understanding this. Uh, first Corinthians 619 says
(03:08):
that we were purchased by Jesus, that that literally God,
the eternal Son purchased us. So when we've been redeemed, yes, forgiven,
declared righteous, God's forever friend, his dwelling place. Now it's
not my will be done. It's thy will be done.
Because you've been so good to me. So I am
(03:29):
now a manager of every aspect of life that you
give me. And the greatest tension that I see, and
we can strip it all away. Yeah. Is the words
of Jesus is still right in Matthew 624. You cannot
serve both God and money. Money is meant to be
(03:50):
used for the purposes of God. But when you use
money to take the purpose of God. It leads to idolatry.
S1 (03:57):
Mm. Boy, that is so well said. You know, and
I think just to underscore that, I mean, money is
God's creation. It's a good gift from a good God,
the God who is the author of delight and joy.
And yet it's a source of so much frustration for
so many. What happens when we get money out of
its proper place as a tool, and all of a
(04:18):
sudden it becomes the end rather than a means to
an end?
S2 (04:21):
Yeah. You know, one of the illustrations I recently did
a sermon at Transformation Church entitled I Am a Steward.
And I shared the story of Smeagol from the Lord
of the Rings The Hobbit. Smeagol was a hobbit who
found a ring. The ring had dark power and he
called it my precious. And it began to deform him.
(04:44):
And so when we worship money, it actually dehumanizes us
and deforms us. And so When we allow the transforming
presence of God's grace, then we see money for what
it is a resource, not a god.
S1 (05:01):
Oh, wow. That is so good. We're talking today with
Doctor Derwin Gray. We're so delighted to have him here today.
He's lead pastor of Transformation Church in South Carolina. When
we come back, much more about our identity in Christ
and how that changes everything about the way we manage money.
This is faith in finance. Live. Stick around. We're just
(05:22):
getting started. What happens when we put money in its
proper place? A tool to bring God glory, to enjoy,
to give away as we love our neighbor, even to
invest strategically? Well, it changes everything about the why and
(05:45):
the how of money management. I'm delighted to be joined
today on the broadcast by Doctor Derwin Gray. He's lead
pastor of Transformation Church in South Carolina, and really a
compelling voice on what it means to live as God's steward.
Doctor gray, before the break, we were talking about this
role of stewardship and understanding God's design for money. How,
(06:06):
if we're not careful, it can become an idol very easily,
especially in the most prosperous nation in the history of
the world. But when we put it in its proper
place to bring God glory to accomplish his purposes, one
of those natural byproducts of living that way is generosity.
And you believe that's an act of worship rather than duty.
(06:26):
Talk to us about that.
S2 (06:28):
Yeah. You know, the Apostle Paul in second Corinthians chapter eight,
verse nine, he says to the Corinthian church as he
was raising financial support for the primarily Jewish church in
Jerusalem that was suffering and poor, he said to these
mixed people groups throughout Corinth, he says, um, for you
know the grace of God, even though he was rich,
(06:51):
he became poor for our sake that we would be
rich in Christ. And so his entire motivation flows from
this reality that generosity is not humanity's idea. Generosity is
intrinsic to who God is. God is a giver, and
he gave the greatest treasure there is, Jesus to redeem
(07:13):
us so that we too could have the identity of generosity,
that within our spiritual DNA is resurrection power that says
A generous God generously rescued me. So therefore generosity flows
from who I am. So we need to learn how
to steward God's financial resources his way and not the
(07:37):
world's way. What are what are the things that we
say is, number one, give your first and your best
to God. Kind of like Abel in the Bible. Give
your first and your best. And why do you do that?
Because number one, he's worth it. Number two, it's your identity.
And number three, there are benefits from trusting God with
(07:57):
your resources. Like number one peace. There's so many people
who live in chaos. Number two, when I can trust
God with my money, which is his, I can trust
him with other decisions in my life. So it's an
act of obedience. And worship is simply another word for God.
(08:18):
I give you my life because you gave your life
for me.
S1 (08:21):
Mhm. Yeah. It's an overflow of the immeasurable grace that
has already been extended to us. And, you know, to
go back to God's Word in the New Testament, the
apostle Paul wrote in Ephesians four, you know, let the
thief steal no longer let him work with his hands,
doing honest work. So that and isn't this interesting? He
may have something to share with anyone in need. So
(08:41):
it's to your point that perhaps one of the the
primary reasons God entrust to us what he does is
so we can be generous. But, you know, we've got
this tension that those of us in the West experience,
just given the incredible prosperity all around us, and that
is to determine how do we train our hearts toward
generosity so that we don't just continue to raise our
(09:03):
standard of living, but we raise our standard of giving?
What does that look like?
S2 (09:08):
I think what it looks like is this is whatever
you dwell on the most, whatever you appreciate the most.
And Jesus said it this way in Matthew 621, for
where your treasure is, your heart will be there also.
And so when we get a glimpse, when we gaze
upon the beauty of Jesus, the everlasting greatness of his
grace and mercy, and we've tasted and seen that the
(09:30):
Lord is good, we want to organize our lives around that,
but it comes back to identity. If I am a steward,
a manager of God's resources, then regardless of how I feel,
the truth dictates that I give God my first and best.
It also means I learn how to save. I learn
(09:51):
how to invest, I learn how to pay off debt.
And so God wants us to have joy with financial resources.
Joy is a part of fruit of the spirit. But
I can't have joy if I'm filled with anxiety, with money,
if I'm filled with greed. And that's one of the
biggest things that I see. Um, I see a lot
(10:13):
of followers of Jesus who don't trust God with their finances.
Thus other parts of their lives are in chaos. When
I can trust God with my resources, which are his,
I can trust him in other parts of my life.
I was recently sitting down with a man and we
were talking and I was sharing with him, and I
(10:34):
preached this from the pulpit that my wife and I
gave 23% of our income to transformation Church in 2024,
because we believe in transformation Church. And he looked at
me and he said, if I did that, that would
have been $180,000 for my last paycheck. And I looked
at him and I said, we're in the process of
raising $300,000 to put two Bible translations in the language
(10:59):
that people don't have a Bible. I said, you could
have done that by yourself. And he looked at me
and said, I can't even account for where that money went. Oh, wow.
But guess what? The very next day, I got a
text from him with automatic giving the generosity of God
and what he could do overwhelmed him with like, you
(11:19):
know what? My life is chaotic. I have anxiety. Being
stingy to God is not helping me alleviate anxiety. It's
making it worse. And so there's an element of it
is indeed better to give than receive. Because as you
are giving, you're giving away not just resources for God's glory,
but you're giving away anxiety. You're giving away idolatry. You're
(11:42):
giving away stress and our financial resources and how we
steward them is a portrait of our spiritual formation and discipleship.
And so I think as God's people respond to God's
grace and live lives of generosity, not only does he
put more into your heart and into your hands, you're
(12:02):
able to trust him in greater, more profound ways in
your marriage, your singleness, in your work, and in the earth.
S1 (12:11):
Well, that's exactly right. And what a privilege it is
to partner with God for God to allow us to
participate in his activity through our giving as a pastor.
What excites you most about what? What's possible through the
local church that's fully funded by God's stewards? Oh well.
S2 (12:31):
Last year we baptized over 300 people. We're going to
baptize over 300 more people this year. We have a
free grocery store where we feed 500 people per month.
In the last several years, we've paid off nearly $30
million of insurance, medical debt. Um, we're we're planning churches internationally.
(12:53):
There is so much that can be done to help
this world that is in desperate need. And as we
release the resources God puts in our hands, it is
to bless other people, but it also blesses us. There
there is a blessing and obedience. Obedience is a word
that simply means this. I follow God because his grace
(13:17):
has pulled me like gravity towards him. Obedience is not
something you grit your teeth. It's something that we run
towards because the Spirit of God is carrying us on
the loving wings of Jesus's grace. And when you fall
in love with Jesus, when you treasure Jesus and the
(13:37):
Holy Spirit fills you, he begins to shape our understanding
of stewardship. I am a manager of what God has
put into my hands, and let's manage it wisely and beautifully.
S1 (13:51):
This is a high calling, folks. You and I are
money managers for the King of Kings. Doctor Derwin Gray
has been our guest today. He's lead pastor of Transformation
Church in South Carolina. Doctor gray, we just scratched the surface,
so we're going to have to have you back. Thanks
for stopping by.
S2 (14:06):
Thank you.
S1 (14:07):
That's pastor Derwin gray. We're going to take a quick break,
then back with your questions after this. The number 800
525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. Stick around.
S3 (14:32):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:55):
Hey, great to have you with us today on Faith
and finance live, I'm Rob West. Boy, what a treat
to have Doctor Derwin Gray with us today, bringing some
truth around how we should view money in light of
biblical wisdom and the immeasurable grace having been extended to
us through Jesus Christ and the incredible high calling and
responsibility we have to be stewards, managers of God's resources
(15:19):
each day. We want to help you in that role
here on this program, giving you wise counsel, godly wisdom,
and practical suggestions as we tackle the things going on
in your financial life. So if you've got a question today,
the lines are nearly full, but we still have room
for you. At the moment, the number to call 805
two five. 7000. That's 800 525 7000. By the way,
(15:42):
Doctor Derwin Gray will be one of the main stage
speakers alongside John Tyson and Carrie Neuhoff and Catherine Wolfe
and Bob Goff. Doctor Derwin Gray at the Redeeming Money conference. Now,
this conference is for financial professionals, spouses and students ready
(16:04):
to enter financial services. This is the annual conference from
Kingdom Advisors. Again, it's called redeeming Money. So if you're
an advisor or you have an advisor who's a Christ follower,
encourage them to check out redeeming Money.com the Redeeming Money
2026 conference. We're expecting 3000 advisors in Orlando, Florida February
(16:26):
11th through the 13th. It's going to be amazing. 35
breakout sessions from people like Randy Alcorn and Ron Blue
and so many others. Incredible worship. It's a just a
phenomenal event. And if you know an advisor who's a believer,
a Christ follower, encourage them to get there. It is
(16:47):
expected to sell out, perhaps even before the end of
the year. So just send them to Redeeming money.com to
learn more. Again, that's redeeming money. All right. Let's dive
into your questions. Today. We're going to begin in Wisconsin
Brian go ahead.
S4 (17:04):
Yes, Rob, thank you for taking my call. Um, I
have not been able to file taxes since 2017. Until recently,
when I had a gentleman from my church, uh, who's
an accountant, helped me to file those taxes. Uh, during that,
(17:25):
it was actually two years ago. Now, maybe a little
more than that, that I, uh, hired on a tax company.
Tax resolution company to help me try to resolve this
tax situation. I was really feeling caught between a rock
and a hard place. Um, understanding that I was going
(17:48):
to probably owe without it being officially filed, that I
would owe somewhere around 100,000, and I have not been
able to pay any of these taxes over these years
due to lack of income. Um, and I probably paid
(18:09):
in eight or more thousand dollars into that tax resolution
company and was not able to continue to pay them
their monthly, um, charge, which was $578 a month. Um,
since like last October, September. October of last year. Yeah.
(18:35):
And now I was not able to continue that contract
at this point. I, I got those texts, um, filed
for most of those years. I still have to for
the last two, but I'm wondering if there's any possible
way that I can go back to that tax resolution
(18:58):
company and get refunded any of the money that I
paid into them, because I wasn't able to continue that contract.
S1 (19:07):
Hmm. Yeah. Well, a lot of that's going to come
down to the fine print. Let me just back up though.
I know this is a tough spot to be in
when you're self-employed and work slows down. It's easy for
taxes to pile up. And then when a company promises
relief and doesn't deliver, it's frustrating and expensive. First of all,
you're not alone. Uh, you know, there are many for
(19:27):
profit tax relief companies that make big promises that don't
follow through. If you did sign a contract for $13,000
in services and paid 8000, the question is did they
perform on what they had committed to do? And is
there any, you know in that language? Probably not. But
is there any out for you, or can you demonstrate
(19:50):
in a meaningful way that they didn't deliver on what
they were supposed to? And that's why you stopped paying?
And in fact, it's not only that you're not going
to finish it out, but they actually owe you something
in return. I think that's ultimately going to come down
to what was that agreement you entered into, and did
they perform on it? If you feel like they did not,
(20:11):
then you could start by filing a written complaint with
your state's attorney general's Consumer Protection division. They handle these
kinds of things all the time. You could report it
to the Federal Trade Commission. You know, those would be
typically the ways you would go about that. Obviously, you
could contact them, but they're probably going to tell you that,
you know, you owe them money. Um, you know, at
(20:31):
the very least, and certainly not offer to pay you
anything back. They'll probably defend what they were doing. You
know what I would recommend here? I mean, there's a
couple of options. One is IRS has something called a
Fresh Start program. Um, you know, which could apply to you. Generally,
I would recommend you get with a CPA or an
enrolled agent who is experienced in representing taxpayers before the
(20:55):
IRS because they may be able to work out a
payment plan, an installment agreement, or what's called an offer
in compromise, which could dramatically reduce the overall tax liability.
At the very least, spread it out via the installment agreement.
And you know they're more willing to work with you
than a lot of people expect. Um, if you don't
(21:17):
have anybody, I would be happy to connect you with
a friend, uh, who's a CPA who's been doing this
30 years, but his expertise is is in this area
of representing taxpayers. And at least he's somebody who's, you know,
a Christ follower that I certainly have the utmost respect for. And,
and you could trust. We'd be happy to make that connection.
(21:40):
Apart from that, I'd look at filing a complaint and
then really do a deep dive, maybe even with some
legal counsel. If you have a friend or a family
member who could help you analyze that contract to see
if there's a nonperformance there. Stay on the line. We'll
be right back. Great to have you with us today
(22:03):
on Faith and Finance live. I'm Rob West. We're taking
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(22:25):
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(22:46):
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(23:09):
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(23:32):
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That's faith partner. All right let's head back to the phones.
By the way we have a few lines open. So
if you have a question call right now 800 525 7000.
Let's go down to Florida. Hi, John. Go ahead.
S5 (23:51):
Yes. First time caller. Thank you very much for all
that you do for the Kingdom. Uh, I want to
make it very simple for the sake of your other callers.
I currently have a place where I live right now.
Mortgage 90,000 owed on the mortgage with a 4%. And
I have collected precious metals over the my lifetime, starting
(24:16):
back in high school. And, uh, now we had a
rise in those metals. And I would just like to know,
should I cash that in to pay off that mortgage?
Or would you hold on to the to the medals
with the balance being so low at 4%? Yeah. Simple question.
S1 (24:33):
Yeah. It is. It's a great one though. Um, and
obviously you've done well. I mean, you know, with the, uh,
the medals, uh, gold up at least, uh, you know,
nearly 50%, 26% last year. You've done quite well. And, um,
you know, you've obviously accumulated that over a long period
of time, uh, you know, from a big picture, obviously,
(24:53):
you've got a half $1 million in precious metals. You've
only got 90,000 left, relatively low interest rates. Not in
the twos, but it's not in the sixes or sevens either. Um,
you know, you are highly concentrated in one type of
asset that has has historically underperformed stocks. And, uh, it
(25:13):
doesn't have any ability to generate any income, which is
one of the downsides. It's a store of value. It's
a safe haven against some of the things we're experiencing
right now. Uh, it's been interesting to watch both gold
and stocks rise, which tells me that, you know, there's
a lot of reason to be excited about this economy.
But there's also, you know, some reasons to be concerned
(25:35):
with debasement of currency and geopolitical tensions, not to mention inflation.
And so I think that's why we're seeing both go up. Um,
you know, because these don't produce or the metals don't
produce any income. They just sit there, you know, they're
not a generator of value. And I think given just
this dramatic run up in, um, in the price of metals,
(25:57):
assuming you're concentrated in gold, um, you know, I think
this is a good idea to take some money off
the table, whether that's to diversify into other asset classes
like stocks and bonds or pay off the mortgage or both.
But at the very least, I would take this opportunity,
just given the incredible appreciation to look at what it
(26:17):
might look like to spread your risk across other asset classes.
I'm not, you know, focused on you paying off that mortgage.
You know, you've got a low interest rate, whether it's
in the metals or stocks, maybe even some bonds. You
should be able to outpace that with a fairly conservative portfolio.
So unless you just feel, you know, unsettled about the
(26:38):
debt or you just have a real conviction to get
out of debt, I wouldn't say I'd be, you know,
urgently looking to pay it off. It would never be
a bad idea. But I wouldn't necessarily say yes, do
that tomorrow. But I am fairly concerned about just how
overweighted you are in the metals for the reasons I mentioned,
but give me your thoughts on all that, John.
S5 (26:57):
Yeah, yeah, I think from a from an early childhood,
as I said, my father was just saying, you know,
they're never going to stop spending money. They're always going,
we're going to always have a debt. This is when
my father's passed away. But I never bought the metals.
As a far as an investment concern. I have stocks
and other stuff like that. I have real estate that
(27:19):
I've ventured into. Uh, that's only a small part.
S1 (27:23):
Oh, I.
S5 (27:23):
See the overall. Okay. The only reason I bought those
metals was just an insurance policy. Never an investment.
S1 (27:31):
Got it, got it. Yeah.
S5 (27:32):
So that was an investment.
S1 (27:33):
That's helpful to know that this is just one small
piece of your total investment, investable portfolio of assets. So yeah,
I think for that reason, then if we're just looking
at this as one piece of it and you are
properly diversified and you kind of have your, your serious money,
your investments, other places, uh, including real estate, hard, uh,
you know, real property alongside stocks and bonds. Then I
(27:56):
think the question becomes, okay, is this an opportunity, just
given the incredible run up in the value of the metals,
to take some money off the table and pay off
this mortgage? And I would say, yeah, I like that
a lot. Just given, you know, the the rapid rise
in appreciation that you've experienced.
S5 (28:14):
Thank you very much. Have a great day.
S1 (28:16):
You too. John. Lord bless you, my friend. Thanks for calling.
(800)Â 525-7000 is the number to call. Let's see. We're going
to head to Chicago and talk to Misa. Go ahead.
S6 (28:27):
Oh. Hi, Rob. Thank you for taking my call.
S7 (28:30):
Of course.
S6 (28:31):
And, yeah, I'm requesting guidance. What to consider in buying
long term care insurance at my age of 68, in
good health, single. And I'm retired. I have few friends
who are up in their 80s that I have seen
have come down with dementia, and each time I go visit,
(28:53):
their decline is so rapid that it really makes me
so sad as well as think about myself, since you
know they do have children and grandchildren, I don't. So
I'm I'm trying to see remaining faithful in my trust
in God as well for Providence. Should I just go
(29:14):
ahead to buy a long term care insurance, or just
set aside and watch my budget and set aside my
IRA funds from when I was employed. And it's now
at the value of 1.2 million.
S7 (29:31):
Mhm.
S6 (29:32):
Yeah. This advice.
S1 (29:33):
Yeah. Very good. Well I think given the fact that
you've accumulated such a sizeable nest egg, you are in
a position where you could self-insure. Uh, you know, at 68, uh, premiums, um,
you know, could be 4000 plus, um, you know, they
could run all the way up to $10,000 a year
in premiums alone. Uh, that you may never collect on,
(29:55):
depending on the, the additional riders, the daily benefit inflation riders,
how long the waiting periods are your health status, which
you said is pretty good. So I think a middle
of the road policy would run you somewhere between 4
and 6000 a year. Now, long term care, if you
need nursing care, could run you 100,000 thousand, you know,
a year. But the good news is, you know, the
(30:18):
average person only needs long term care for women in
this country. It's less than four years. Only about 20%
of people, 1 in 5 that need long term care
need it more than five years. So for that reason,
if you've got the assets you're describing at 1.2 million,
you're just living off the income. I would say you
should be able to fund that out of your assets
(30:40):
and not have to spend, you know, 4 or 5
or $6,000 a year on a long term care insurance premium. Um,
I want to get your thoughts on all that. So
stay on the line. We'll talk a bit more off
the air. We'll be right back. Thanks for calling today
(31:03):
and listening today and tuning in today on Faith and
Finance live. I'm Rob West. We are taking your calls
and questions here in our final segment. We'll get to
as many as we can. In fact, let's do that
right now. Blanca is in Chicago. Go right ahead.
S8 (31:18):
Hi. Thank you for taking my call.
S7 (31:21):
Of course.
S8 (31:22):
Um, so I, I have a car loan, and honestly,
I'm just super overwhelmed because I don't know what I'm
doing anymore. Um, the amount financed for that car was about, um, 23,709, um,
for 72 months. And the, um, the Apr rate is
(31:43):
super high. It's 29.99%.
S7 (31:47):
Wow.
S8 (31:47):
Um, yes. Because at the moment, I, um, I needed
a car. I my credit was really bad, and I
didn't want to ask for help, so, um, I went
and I went ahead and did that. My, um, I've
been paying, uh, $721 every month since December 20th, um, 2022. And, um,
(32:10):
I never refinanced because I had no idea what I
was doing. I just kept paying. And, um, obviously the
problem is that most of what I paid has gone
towards interest and my balance is still around, um, $19,000. Um,
and so I just, I feel stuck and I really
want to get out of that, um, high interest debt. Um,
(32:32):
my credit score right now is, um, around 681 on Equifax,
but I know it's, um, a little lower, like another barrel. So, um,
I don't know if, um, I don't know how to refinance.
I don't know if I should turn the car in or, like,
what makes more sense? What's going to be better?
S7 (32:51):
Yeah.
S1 (32:52):
Yeah. Very good. Um, do you know what the car
is worth today?
S8 (32:56):
Um. Not exactly. No.
S7 (32:59):
Okay.
S1 (33:00):
Yeah. Um, you know, for a used car loan in
general at 680, I mean, you might be talking 12%. Um,
you know, you may be able to get it slightly lower,
but obviously a whole lot better. Almost a third of
what you're at now at 30%. So we need to
get out of that one way or another. I think
the first step is for you to really look up
(33:22):
and see what the car's value is, to find out
whether you have that option of selling it and kind
of starting over. Um, and so what I would do
is go to Cbn.com or Edmunds.com, either of those KBB, Edmunds.com,
and you'd be able to plug in the mileage, the make,
(33:43):
the model, the condition, and then you'd want to look
at the private sale value and just see what is
this car worth. And do you have what's called negative equity.
Which means, you know, you owe more than the car
is worth because when you sell it, if you can't
pay off the loan, then you know they're going to
there's going to be a judgment against you. And we
(34:04):
don't we don't want that. If we can avoid that,
if at all possible. Um, do you have any savings?
Do you have any ability to to pay if there
is a balance owed after the car is sold?
S8 (34:16):
Um, I don't have a lot of savings at the moment.
I do know, however, that, um, the car at this
point is probably worth less than I owe on it.
So that is why it's, um, it's it's it's overwhelming.
And I know it's probably things that I'm, like, supposed
to know, but, um, I had no idea.
S1 (34:38):
Yeah, yeah. Um, so it's a it's a tough position.
I totally get it. And obviously that interest rate is astronomical,
and we want to get out from under that. Um,
I mean, you can refinance with negative equity, but it's harder,
and it's often not your best option. Um, and so,
you know, given that it sounds like your credit has improved,
do you have stable income?
S8 (35:01):
Um, yes. At the moment, yes. Um, praying to God
it it keeps, um, being that way. Um. But. Yes.
S7 (35:09):
Okay.
S1 (35:10):
And what do you think it's worth today? Have you
looked that up recently?
S8 (35:14):
Um, so I actually, um, I visited a dealership today,
and it got a little overwhelming. Um, I was trying
to get, you know, help because, um, I did, uh,
let them know. I don't know if I should just
turn the car in. I was I was just there, like,
ready to just leave the car because I'm like, I
can't do this anymore. I need I need help. Um,
(35:35):
he did suggest I, um, refinance either, uh, through, like,
a credit union or my bank. But he did mention
the car is obviously worth less than. You know what
I owe on the car, so.
S7 (35:48):
Okay, but.
S1 (35:49):
You don't know how much.
S7 (35:51):
No, no. Okay.
S1 (35:52):
All right. Well, I mean, what year is it?
S8 (35:56):
It's a 2020. Okay. It's a Toyota Camry.
S7 (35:59):
Okay.
S1 (36:00):
You know, so let's say it's, you know, worth 15,000.
I mean, you need to look it up again after
we're done here. You could go to Kbb.com and find
that answer pretty quickly. Um, but, you know, I think
the the opportunity is either to look at doing a refinance, um,
and see if that's possible based on the value of this.
(36:20):
There is what's called a voluntary repossession, which is is
not great. Um, you know, but at this point, we're
just looking for how can you kind of rightsize your
situation and, you know, that would allow you to get
out from under this? Um, but it's going to leave
a judgment, you know, against you there with an amount
that you still owe. And, you know, that's not a
(36:42):
good thing. Um, you know, another option would be, uh,
to look at, you know, basically getting into a cheaper car, uh,
seeing if you can, you know, uh, you know, use
this car as, uh, something that you would essentially turn
in and then try to roll that difference into the
new car that's less expensive. And then again, hopefully with your, uh,
(37:04):
you know, your better credit rating and, uh, you know,
the steady work. Maybe you could qualify for a, you know,
a better loan with a lower interest rate. So, you know,
that allows you to, uh, essentially kind of reset the loan.
So I think you need to do some digging here.
First question is, what is it worth? Let's go find
that out. Second is look at your options on refinancing.
(37:27):
I think the third option is could you get into
a cheaper car where they take this as a trade
in and roll perhaps that negative equity into the next
car at better terms? And then the kind of the
last case worst case option would be, you know, looking
at a, at a voluntary repossession that's going to hurt
your credit. But at the end of the day, um,
you know, if you've explored every other route first, that
(37:49):
might be, you know, your last option there.
S8 (37:52):
Okay.
S1 (37:54):
All righty. I know this is tough. Um, let's do this.
I want to offer a certified Christian financial counselor to
come alongside you and help you sort some of these
things out. We're going to pay for it, Blanca. And
at least this will give you a sounding board, somebody
to kind of walk down this road with you and
help you navigate that. Would that be helpful to you?
S8 (38:13):
Um, yes. Yeah, that would be a blessing. Thank you
so much.
S1 (38:16):
Okay, listen, you stay on the line. We're going to
get somebody in touch with you. We're going to pay
for it so it won't cost you anything. And they'll
walk alongside you as we get you, uh, figured out
here in terms of where you go from here, the
Lord is with you. Don't be discouraged. Uh, we're going
to give you some help, and, uh, and you'll get
beyond this and learn from it. And then, uh, let's
make sure we don't repeat this again in the future and, uh,
(38:38):
get you on a on a more solid financial footing. Listen,
you hang in there, Blanca. Hang on the line. We'll
be in touch real soon. Let's go to North Carolina. Hi, Cindy.
How can I help?
S9 (38:48):
Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Um, I was
calling for advice. My dad still owes about $55,000 on
his home. Um, according to his will. Um, we stand
to inherit the house if he passes along. And I
(39:08):
wanted to know what was the best course of action
so that we don't inherit such a large bill. Or
is there any course of action to be taken so
we don't inherit a large bill?
S1 (39:25):
Yeah, there really isn't, Cindy. So the trust and the will,
even what's called a transfer on death. Uh, that only
has to do with how the the assets are transferred
to you. But when someone passes away with a mortgage,
the loan doesn't disappear. So the lender still has a
lien on the home. And whoever inherits the home, whether
(39:48):
it's by way of a will through the probate court
or through a trust, or through a transfer on death deed,
they still inherit it, subject to that death. So that
means generally what happens is they either refinance the loan
into their own name or names if multiple people inherit it,
or they sell the house and pay off the balance
(40:11):
and then keep the proceeds. So the loan is what
it is, whatever that balance is that's owed. Um, you know,
at your dad's passing, it would still be owed. Um,
these other legal instruments are just how the property gets
transferred to you, but they don't have any bearing whatsoever
(40:32):
on on that loan that's going to be paid regardless.
S9 (40:36):
Okay. And as far as, like, maybe taxes goes, is
there a.
S1 (40:41):
There really won't be any taxes because there's no federal
inheritance tax. Um, and you will not have capital gains
because when you inherit a property, you get what's called
a step up in basis. So, uh, with a, with
a piece of real estate from a tax standpoint. What
happens is you buy it. Let's say you buy a
(41:01):
piece of property for 100,000 it it rises in value
to 200,000. And then you sell it at 200,000. Well,
you've got $100,000 in capital gains. The difference between what
you sold it for and what you bought it for,
and then you pay tax. The difference is with an
inheritance is let's say somebody buys a property for 100,000,
it grows to 200, but then they die and it
(41:23):
passes to their heirs. The cost basis steps up as
of the date of death from the original 100,000 that
the deceased paid to the market value as of the
date of death. So there is no more capital gain.
And so, by way of you receiving it as an
inheritance now, the only reason you'd pay taxes is if
(41:43):
you didn't sell it, and from the date you received
it forward, if it appreciates, well, that would be taxable
to you. But if you turn around and sell it
or you just sit on it, there are no taxes owed.
S9 (41:57):
Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you for your advice.
God bless you guys.
S1 (42:01):
All right, Cindy, thanks for your call today. We appreciate
you being on the program. Well, that's going to do
it for us an in Indiana I apologize we didn't
get to you. Let's see if the team can get
you scheduled to be first up tomorrow. I'd love to, uh,
take your question about that, uh, hybrid life insurance policy.
Thanks for your call today, folks. That's going to do
it for us. So thankful to have you along with
us today. I'll tell you where we started today with
(42:22):
Doctor Derwin Gray is just really the heart of the
gospel as it relates to money. We have been given
so much. We have an abundance before the first dollar
because of the shed blood of Jesus and the grace
that has been extended to us, that unmerited favor that
reconciles us to the father. So go out and manage
God's money for his glory. Hey, let me say thanks
(42:43):
to my team today Omar, Lisa, Josh, Taylor, Chris, and
everybody here at Faith five that makes this possible. Faith
and finance is a partnership between Moody Radio and Faith five.
Come back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then.
When it comes to money. The issue isn't just budgets
or bank accounts, it's identity and ownership. Hi, I'm Rob West.
In Christ, we're a new creation in God's dwelling place,
which means money is something we manage for the owner. Today,
we'll explore what it looks like to live as God's
stewards with Doctor Derwin Gray. Then it's on to your
phone calls at 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000.
(00:35):
This is faith and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your
financial journey. Well, what a treat to welcome Doctor Derwin Gray. Today,
he serves as the lead pastor of Transformation Church in
South Carolina, and is a compelling voice on what it
means to live as God's steward. Pastor Derwin, what an
honor to have you here, sir.
S2 (00:56):
Thank you guys. I'm so happy to be with you
guys are really looking forward to this show. Um, about
a year or so ago, I looked at our congregation
and I repented to them and I said, you know, guys,
I have not done a good enough job of teaching
you that your financial stewardship, your financial generosity is intrinsic
(01:19):
to worship and discipleship. And I'm going to do a
better job of equipping you. And, uh, it was utterly outstanding. Uh,
not only has given gone up, but faith has risen
up as well. So it's been it's been pretty awesome.
S1 (01:35):
Wow. You know, there's something about Doctor Gray to get
to what you're talking about here. Uh, the way we
handle money is often one of the primary ways God
shapes our spiritual journey. Because it's that tangible expression every
day of what we value and where we place our trust.
You know, the late Tim Keller said, among all the
counterfeit gods, perhaps money is the most common counterfeit God.
(01:59):
And so you're right. We need to deal with this.
And I believe the local church should be the ultimate
source of financial wisdom, because we know what God's Word
has to say. 2300 verses on this. Let's talk about
that difference between ownership and stewardship that we don't have
ownership rights. We have stewardship responsibilities. That's a big shift
(02:22):
in mindset. What are the implications of that?
S2 (02:25):
Well, it is it is a massive shift. I think
that even for Christians, it's important for us to understand,
number one, God doesn't want something from us. He wants
something for us. And what does he want for us?
He wants us to have a heart of generosity like his.
He wants us to be filled with love. He wants
(02:47):
us to not deal with idolatry. And so financial giving
and generosity and stewardship Courtship is I am a manager
of that which God has graciously given to me. And
it starts with understanding this. Uh, first Corinthians 619 says
(03:08):
that we were purchased by Jesus, that that literally God,
the eternal Son purchased us. So when we've been redeemed, yes, forgiven,
declared righteous, God's forever friend, his dwelling place. Now it's
not my will be done. It's thy will be done.
Because you've been so good to me. So I am
(03:29):
now a manager of every aspect of life that you
give me. And the greatest tension that I see, and
we can strip it all away. Yeah. Is the words
of Jesus is still right in Matthew 624. You cannot
serve both God and money. Money is meant to be
(03:50):
used for the purposes of God. But when you use
money to take the purpose of God. It leads to idolatry.
S1 (03:57):
Mm. Boy, that is so well said. You know, and
I think just to underscore that, I mean, money is
God's creation. It's a good gift from a good God,
the God who is the author of delight and joy.
And yet it's a source of so much frustration for
so many. What happens when we get money out of
its proper place as a tool, and all of a
(04:18):
sudden it becomes the end rather than a means to
an end?
S2 (04:21):
Yeah. You know, one of the illustrations I recently did
a sermon at Transformation Church entitled I Am a Steward.
And I shared the story of Smeagol from the Lord
of the Rings The Hobbit. Smeagol was a hobbit who
found a ring. The ring had dark power and he
called it my precious. And it began to deform him.
(04:44):
And so when we worship money, it actually dehumanizes us
and deforms us. And so When we allow the transforming
presence of God's grace, then we see money for what
it is a resource, not a god.
S1 (05:01):
Oh, wow. That is so good. We're talking today with
Doctor Derwin Gray. We're so delighted to have him here today.
He's lead pastor of Transformation Church in South Carolina. When
we come back, much more about our identity in Christ
and how that changes everything about the way we manage money.
This is faith in finance. Live. Stick around. We're just
(05:22):
getting started. What happens when we put money in its
proper place? A tool to bring God glory, to enjoy,
to give away as we love our neighbor, even to
invest strategically? Well, it changes everything about the why and
(05:45):
the how of money management. I'm delighted to be joined
today on the broadcast by Doctor Derwin Gray. He's lead
pastor of Transformation Church in South Carolina, and really a
compelling voice on what it means to live as God's steward.
Doctor gray, before the break, we were talking about this
role of stewardship and understanding God's design for money. How,
(06:06):
if we're not careful, it can become an idol very easily,
especially in the most prosperous nation in the history of
the world. But when we put it in its proper
place to bring God glory to accomplish his purposes, one
of those natural byproducts of living that way is generosity.
And you believe that's an act of worship rather than duty.
(06:26):
Talk to us about that.
S2 (06:28):
Yeah. You know, the Apostle Paul in second Corinthians chapter eight,
verse nine, he says to the Corinthian church as he
was raising financial support for the primarily Jewish church in
Jerusalem that was suffering and poor, he said to these
mixed people groups throughout Corinth, he says, um, for you
know the grace of God, even though he was rich,
(06:51):
he became poor for our sake that we would be
rich in Christ. And so his entire motivation flows from
this reality that generosity is not humanity's idea. Generosity is
intrinsic to who God is. God is a giver, and
he gave the greatest treasure there is, Jesus to redeem
(07:13):
us so that we too could have the identity of generosity,
that within our spiritual DNA is resurrection power that says
A generous God generously rescued me. So therefore generosity flows
from who I am. So we need to learn how
to steward God's financial resources his way and not the
(07:37):
world's way. What are what are the things that we
say is, number one, give your first and your best
to God. Kind of like Abel in the Bible. Give
your first and your best. And why do you do that?
Because number one, he's worth it. Number two, it's your identity.
And number three, there are benefits from trusting God with
(07:57):
your resources. Like number one peace. There's so many people
who live in chaos. Number two, when I can trust
God with my money, which is his, I can trust
him with other decisions in my life. So it's an
act of obedience. And worship is simply another word for God.
(08:18):
I give you my life because you gave your life
for me.
S1 (08:21):
Mhm. Yeah. It's an overflow of the immeasurable grace that
has already been extended to us. And, you know, to
go back to God's Word in the New Testament, the
apostle Paul wrote in Ephesians four, you know, let the
thief steal no longer let him work with his hands,
doing honest work. So that and isn't this interesting? He
may have something to share with anyone in need. So
(08:41):
it's to your point that perhaps one of the the
primary reasons God entrust to us what he does is
so we can be generous. But, you know, we've got
this tension that those of us in the West experience,
just given the incredible prosperity all around us, and that
is to determine how do we train our hearts toward
generosity so that we don't just continue to raise our
(09:03):
standard of living, but we raise our standard of giving?
What does that look like?
S2 (09:08):
I think what it looks like is this is whatever
you dwell on the most, whatever you appreciate the most.
And Jesus said it this way in Matthew 621, for
where your treasure is, your heart will be there also.
And so when we get a glimpse, when we gaze
upon the beauty of Jesus, the everlasting greatness of his
grace and mercy, and we've tasted and seen that the
(09:30):
Lord is good, we want to organize our lives around that,
but it comes back to identity. If I am a steward,
a manager of God's resources, then regardless of how I feel,
the truth dictates that I give God my first and best.
It also means I learn how to save. I learn
(09:51):
how to invest, I learn how to pay off debt.
And so God wants us to have joy with financial resources.
Joy is a part of fruit of the spirit. But
I can't have joy if I'm filled with anxiety, with money,
if I'm filled with greed. And that's one of the
biggest things that I see. Um, I see a lot
(10:13):
of followers of Jesus who don't trust God with their finances.
Thus other parts of their lives are in chaos. When
I can trust God with my resources, which are his,
I can trust him in other parts of my life.
I was recently sitting down with a man and we
were talking and I was sharing with him, and I
(10:34):
preached this from the pulpit that my wife and I
gave 23% of our income to transformation Church in 2024,
because we believe in transformation Church. And he looked at
me and he said, if I did that, that would
have been $180,000 for my last paycheck. And I looked
at him and I said, we're in the process of
raising $300,000 to put two Bible translations in the language
(10:59):
that people don't have a Bible. I said, you could
have done that by yourself. And he looked at me
and said, I can't even account for where that money went. Oh, wow.
But guess what? The very next day, I got a
text from him with automatic giving the generosity of God
and what he could do overwhelmed him with like, you
(11:19):
know what? My life is chaotic. I have anxiety. Being
stingy to God is not helping me alleviate anxiety. It's
making it worse. And so there's an element of it
is indeed better to give than receive. Because as you
are giving, you're giving away not just resources for God's glory,
but you're giving away anxiety. You're giving away idolatry. You're
(11:42):
giving away stress and our financial resources and how we
steward them is a portrait of our spiritual formation and discipleship.
And so I think as God's people respond to God's
grace and live lives of generosity, not only does he
put more into your heart and into your hands, you're
(12:02):
able to trust him in greater, more profound ways in
your marriage, your singleness, in your work, and in the earth.
S1 (12:11):
Well, that's exactly right. And what a privilege it is
to partner with God for God to allow us to
participate in his activity through our giving as a pastor.
What excites you most about what? What's possible through the
local church that's fully funded by God's stewards? Oh well.
S2 (12:31):
Last year we baptized over 300 people. We're going to
baptize over 300 more people this year. We have a
free grocery store where we feed 500 people per month.
In the last several years, we've paid off nearly $30
million of insurance, medical debt. Um, we're we're planning churches internationally.
(12:53):
There is so much that can be done to help
this world that is in desperate need. And as we
release the resources God puts in our hands, it is
to bless other people, but it also blesses us. There
there is a blessing and obedience. Obedience is a word
that simply means this. I follow God because his grace
(13:17):
has pulled me like gravity towards him. Obedience is not
something you grit your teeth. It's something that we run
towards because the Spirit of God is carrying us on
the loving wings of Jesus's grace. And when you fall
in love with Jesus, when you treasure Jesus and the
(13:37):
Holy Spirit fills you, he begins to shape our understanding
of stewardship. I am a manager of what God has
put into my hands, and let's manage it wisely and beautifully.
S1 (13:51):
This is a high calling, folks. You and I are
money managers for the King of Kings. Doctor Derwin Gray
has been our guest today. He's lead pastor of Transformation
Church in South Carolina. Doctor gray, we just scratched the surface,
so we're going to have to have you back. Thanks
for stopping by.
S2 (14:06):
Thank you.
S1 (14:07):
That's pastor Derwin gray. We're going to take a quick break,
then back with your questions after this. The number 800
525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. Stick around.
S3 (14:32):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:55):
Hey, great to have you with us today on Faith
and finance live, I'm Rob West. Boy, what a treat
to have Doctor Derwin Gray with us today, bringing some
truth around how we should view money in light of
biblical wisdom and the immeasurable grace having been extended to
us through Jesus Christ and the incredible high calling and
responsibility we have to be stewards, managers of God's resources
(15:19):
each day. We want to help you in that role
here on this program, giving you wise counsel, godly wisdom,
and practical suggestions as we tackle the things going on
in your financial life. So if you've got a question today,
the lines are nearly full, but we still have room
for you. At the moment, the number to call 805
two five. 7000. That's 800 525 7000. By the way,
(15:42):
Doctor Derwin Gray will be one of the main stage
speakers alongside John Tyson and Carrie Neuhoff and Catherine Wolfe
and Bob Goff. Doctor Derwin Gray at the Redeeming Money conference. Now,
this conference is for financial professionals, spouses and students ready
(16:04):
to enter financial services. This is the annual conference from
Kingdom Advisors. Again, it's called redeeming Money. So if you're
an advisor or you have an advisor who's a Christ follower,
encourage them to check out redeeming Money.com the Redeeming Money
2026 conference. We're expecting 3000 advisors in Orlando, Florida February
(16:26):
11th through the 13th. It's going to be amazing. 35
breakout sessions from people like Randy Alcorn and Ron Blue
and so many others. Incredible worship. It's a just a
phenomenal event. And if you know an advisor who's a believer,
a Christ follower, encourage them to get there. It is
(16:47):
expected to sell out, perhaps even before the end of
the year. So just send them to Redeeming money.com to
learn more. Again, that's redeeming money. All right. Let's dive
into your questions. Today. We're going to begin in Wisconsin
Brian go ahead.
S4 (17:04):
Yes, Rob, thank you for taking my call. Um, I
have not been able to file taxes since 2017. Until recently,
when I had a gentleman from my church, uh, who's
an accountant, helped me to file those taxes. Uh, during that,
(17:25):
it was actually two years ago. Now, maybe a little
more than that, that I, uh, hired on a tax company.
Tax resolution company to help me try to resolve this
tax situation. I was really feeling caught between a rock
and a hard place. Um, understanding that I was going
(17:48):
to probably owe without it being officially filed, that I
would owe somewhere around 100,000, and I have not been
able to pay any of these taxes over these years
due to lack of income. Um, and I probably paid
(18:09):
in eight or more thousand dollars into that tax resolution
company and was not able to continue to pay them
their monthly, um, charge, which was $578 a month. Um,
since like last October, September. October of last year. Yeah.
(18:35):
And now I was not able to continue that contract
at this point. I, I got those texts, um, filed
for most of those years. I still have to for
the last two, but I'm wondering if there's any possible
way that I can go back to that tax resolution
(18:58):
company and get refunded any of the money that I
paid into them, because I wasn't able to continue that contract.
S1 (19:07):
Hmm. Yeah. Well, a lot of that's going to come
down to the fine print. Let me just back up though.
I know this is a tough spot to be in
when you're self-employed and work slows down. It's easy for
taxes to pile up. And then when a company promises
relief and doesn't deliver, it's frustrating and expensive. First of all,
you're not alone. Uh, you know, there are many for
(19:27):
profit tax relief companies that make big promises that don't
follow through. If you did sign a contract for $13,000
in services and paid 8000, the question is did they
perform on what they had committed to do? And is
there any, you know in that language? Probably not. But
is there any out for you, or can you demonstrate
(19:50):
in a meaningful way that they didn't deliver on what
they were supposed to? And that's why you stopped paying?
And in fact, it's not only that you're not going
to finish it out, but they actually owe you something
in return. I think that's ultimately going to come down
to what was that agreement you entered into, and did
they perform on it? If you feel like they did not,
(20:11):
then you could start by filing a written complaint with
your state's attorney general's Consumer Protection division. They handle these
kinds of things all the time. You could report it
to the Federal Trade Commission. You know, those would be
typically the ways you would go about that. Obviously, you
could contact them, but they're probably going to tell you that,
you know, you owe them money. Um, you know, at
(20:31):
the very least, and certainly not offer to pay you
anything back. They'll probably defend what they were doing. You
know what I would recommend here? I mean, there's a
couple of options. One is IRS has something called a
Fresh Start program. Um, you know, which could apply to you. Generally,
I would recommend you get with a CPA or an
enrolled agent who is experienced in representing taxpayers before the
(20:55):
IRS because they may be able to work out a
payment plan, an installment agreement, or what's called an offer
in compromise, which could dramatically reduce the overall tax liability.
At the very least, spread it out via the installment agreement.
And you know they're more willing to work with you
than a lot of people expect. Um, if you don't
(21:17):
have anybody, I would be happy to connect you with
a friend, uh, who's a CPA who's been doing this
30 years, but his expertise is is in this area
of representing taxpayers. And at least he's somebody who's, you know,
a Christ follower that I certainly have the utmost respect for. And,
and you could trust. We'd be happy to make that connection.
(21:40):
Apart from that, I'd look at filing a complaint and
then really do a deep dive, maybe even with some
legal counsel. If you have a friend or a family
member who could help you analyze that contract to see
if there's a nonperformance there. Stay on the line. We'll
be right back. Great to have you with us today
(22:03):
on Faith and Finance live. I'm Rob West. We're taking
your calls and questions. Hey, here in the fourth quarter
of the year, as a listener supported ministry at Faith fi,
we are, uh, have a heightened awareness, I'll say, about
the gifts coming into the ministry as we try to
close out the year strong. Let me just ask you,
if you love the program, maybe you've found something you've
been able to apply in your financial life, or you've
(22:25):
been encouraged by the broadcast each day you consider yourself
a regular listener. We would invite you to become a
supporter of this listener supported ministry. We can only bring
you this program and all the new things we have
planned for 2026, including a brand new app. My new
devotion coming out, uh, some incredible new resources that we'll
(22:46):
be telling you about in the in the coming months.
All of that is only possible through listener support. And
one of the best ways for you to support our
work is when you become a partner and partners give
$35 a month or more, or at least $400 a
year to support our work. Help us reach more people.
And when you do that, we're able to send you
some great resources to encourage you and your family for
(23:09):
issues of our magazine each year mailed to your door.
It's called Faithful Steward. It's full of some incredible content
and beautiful articles. Uh, each of our studies and devotions,
we tend really generally come out with two per year.
So you'll get my new devotional that comes out at
the end of the year. Uh, we'll send that to
you and you get pro access to the Faith app,
plus quarterly ministry updates from me. Again, the website to
(23:32):
learn more and become a partner today is faith fi.com/partner.
That's faith partner. All right let's head back to the phones.
By the way we have a few lines open. So
if you have a question call right now 800 525 7000.
Let's go down to Florida. Hi, John. Go ahead.
S5 (23:51):
Yes. First time caller. Thank you very much for all
that you do for the Kingdom. Uh, I want to
make it very simple for the sake of your other callers.
I currently have a place where I live right now.
Mortgage 90,000 owed on the mortgage with a 4%. And
I have collected precious metals over the my lifetime, starting
(24:16):
back in high school. And, uh, now we had a
rise in those metals. And I would just like to know,
should I cash that in to pay off that mortgage?
Or would you hold on to the to the medals
with the balance being so low at 4%? Yeah. Simple question.
S1 (24:33):
Yeah. It is. It's a great one though. Um, and
obviously you've done well. I mean, you know, with the, uh,
the medals, uh, gold up at least, uh, you know,
nearly 50%, 26% last year. You've done quite well. And, um,
you know, you've obviously accumulated that over a long period
of time, uh, you know, from a big picture, obviously,
(24:53):
you've got a half $1 million in precious metals. You've
only got 90,000 left, relatively low interest rates. Not in
the twos, but it's not in the sixes or sevens either. Um,
you know, you are highly concentrated in one type of
asset that has has historically underperformed stocks. And, uh, it
(25:13):
doesn't have any ability to generate any income, which is
one of the downsides. It's a store of value. It's
a safe haven against some of the things we're experiencing
right now. Uh, it's been interesting to watch both gold
and stocks rise, which tells me that, you know, there's
a lot of reason to be excited about this economy.
But there's also, you know, some reasons to be concerned
(25:35):
with debasement of currency and geopolitical tensions, not to mention inflation.
And so I think that's why we're seeing both go up. Um,
you know, because these don't produce or the metals don't
produce any income. They just sit there, you know, they're
not a generator of value. And I think given just
this dramatic run up in, um, in the price of metals,
(25:57):
assuming you're concentrated in gold, um, you know, I think
this is a good idea to take some money off
the table, whether that's to diversify into other asset classes
like stocks and bonds or pay off the mortgage or both.
But at the very least, I would take this opportunity,
just given the incredible appreciation to look at what it
(26:17):
might look like to spread your risk across other asset classes.
I'm not, you know, focused on you paying off that mortgage.
You know, you've got a low interest rate, whether it's
in the metals or stocks, maybe even some bonds. You
should be able to outpace that with a fairly conservative portfolio.
So unless you just feel, you know, unsettled about the
(26:38):
debt or you just have a real conviction to get
out of debt, I wouldn't say I'd be, you know,
urgently looking to pay it off. It would never be
a bad idea. But I wouldn't necessarily say yes, do
that tomorrow. But I am fairly concerned about just how
overweighted you are in the metals for the reasons I mentioned,
but give me your thoughts on all that, John.
S5 (26:57):
Yeah, yeah, I think from a from an early childhood,
as I said, my father was just saying, you know,
they're never going to stop spending money. They're always going,
we're going to always have a debt. This is when
my father's passed away. But I never bought the metals.
As a far as an investment concern. I have stocks
and other stuff like that. I have real estate that
(27:19):
I've ventured into. Uh, that's only a small part.
S1 (27:23):
Oh, I.
S5 (27:23):
See the overall. Okay. The only reason I bought those
metals was just an insurance policy. Never an investment.
S1 (27:31):
Got it, got it. Yeah.
S5 (27:32):
So that was an investment.
S1 (27:33):
That's helpful to know that this is just one small
piece of your total investment, investable portfolio of assets. So yeah,
I think for that reason, then if we're just looking
at this as one piece of it and you are
properly diversified and you kind of have your, your serious money,
your investments, other places, uh, including real estate, hard, uh,
you know, real property alongside stocks and bonds. Then I
(27:56):
think the question becomes, okay, is this an opportunity, just
given the incredible run up in the value of the metals,
to take some money off the table and pay off
this mortgage? And I would say, yeah, I like that
a lot. Just given, you know, the the rapid rise
in appreciation that you've experienced.
S5 (28:14):
Thank you very much. Have a great day.
S1 (28:16):
You too. John. Lord bless you, my friend. Thanks for calling.
(800)Â 525-7000 is the number to call. Let's see. We're going
to head to Chicago and talk to Misa. Go ahead.
S6 (28:27):
Oh. Hi, Rob. Thank you for taking my call.
S7 (28:30):
Of course.
S6 (28:31):
And, yeah, I'm requesting guidance. What to consider in buying
long term care insurance at my age of 68, in
good health, single. And I'm retired. I have few friends
who are up in their 80s that I have seen
have come down with dementia, and each time I go visit,
(28:53):
their decline is so rapid that it really makes me
so sad as well as think about myself, since you
know they do have children and grandchildren, I don't. So
I'm I'm trying to see remaining faithful in my trust
in God as well for Providence. Should I just go
(29:14):
ahead to buy a long term care insurance, or just
set aside and watch my budget and set aside my
IRA funds from when I was employed. And it's now
at the value of 1.2 million.
S7 (29:31):
Mhm.
S6 (29:32):
Yeah. This advice.
S1 (29:33):
Yeah. Very good. Well I think given the fact that
you've accumulated such a sizeable nest egg, you are in
a position where you could self-insure. Uh, you know, at 68, uh, premiums, um,
you know, could be 4000 plus, um, you know, they
could run all the way up to $10,000 a year
in premiums alone. Uh, that you may never collect on,
(29:55):
depending on the, the additional riders, the daily benefit inflation riders,
how long the waiting periods are your health status, which
you said is pretty good. So I think a middle
of the road policy would run you somewhere between 4
and 6000 a year. Now, long term care, if you
need nursing care, could run you 100,000 thousand, you know,
a year. But the good news is, you know, the
(30:18):
average person only needs long term care for women in
this country. It's less than four years. Only about 20%
of people, 1 in 5 that need long term care
need it more than five years. So for that reason,
if you've got the assets you're describing at 1.2 million,
you're just living off the income. I would say you
should be able to fund that out of your assets
(30:40):
and not have to spend, you know, 4 or 5
or $6,000 a year on a long term care insurance premium. Um,
I want to get your thoughts on all that. So
stay on the line. We'll talk a bit more off
the air. We'll be right back. Thanks for calling today
(31:03):
and listening today and tuning in today on Faith and
Finance live. I'm Rob West. We are taking your calls
and questions here in our final segment. We'll get to
as many as we can. In fact, let's do that
right now. Blanca is in Chicago. Go right ahead.
S8 (31:18):
Hi. Thank you for taking my call.
S7 (31:21):
Of course.
S8 (31:22):
Um, so I, I have a car loan, and honestly,
I'm just super overwhelmed because I don't know what I'm
doing anymore. Um, the amount financed for that car was about, um, 23,709, um,
for 72 months. And the, um, the Apr rate is
(31:43):
super high. It's 29.99%.
S7 (31:47):
Wow.
S8 (31:47):
Um, yes. Because at the moment, I, um, I needed
a car. I my credit was really bad, and I
didn't want to ask for help, so, um, I went
and I went ahead and did that. My, um, I've
been paying, uh, $721 every month since December 20th, um, 2022. And, um,
(32:10):
I never refinanced because I had no idea what I
was doing. I just kept paying. And, um, obviously the
problem is that most of what I paid has gone
towards interest and my balance is still around, um, $19,000. Um,
and so I just, I feel stuck and I really
want to get out of that, um, high interest debt. Um,
(32:32):
my credit score right now is, um, around 681 on Equifax,
but I know it's, um, a little lower, like another barrel. So, um,
I don't know if, um, I don't know how to refinance.
I don't know if I should turn the car in or, like,
what makes more sense? What's going to be better?
S7 (32:51):
Yeah.
S1 (32:52):
Yeah. Very good. Um, do you know what the car
is worth today?
S8 (32:56):
Um. Not exactly. No.
S7 (32:59):
Okay.
S1 (33:00):
Yeah. Um, you know, for a used car loan in
general at 680, I mean, you might be talking 12%. Um,
you know, you may be able to get it slightly lower,
but obviously a whole lot better. Almost a third of
what you're at now at 30%. So we need to
get out of that one way or another. I think
the first step is for you to really look up
(33:22):
and see what the car's value is, to find out
whether you have that option of selling it and kind
of starting over. Um, and so what I would do
is go to Cbn.com or Edmunds.com, either of those KBB, Edmunds.com,
and you'd be able to plug in the mileage, the make,
(33:43):
the model, the condition, and then you'd want to look
at the private sale value and just see what is
this car worth. And do you have what's called negative equity.
Which means, you know, you owe more than the car
is worth because when you sell it, if you can't
pay off the loan, then you know they're going to
there's going to be a judgment against you. And we
(34:04):
don't we don't want that. If we can avoid that,
if at all possible. Um, do you have any savings?
Do you have any ability to to pay if there
is a balance owed after the car is sold?
S8 (34:16):
Um, I don't have a lot of savings at the moment.
I do know, however, that, um, the car at this
point is probably worth less than I owe on it.
So that is why it's, um, it's it's it's overwhelming.
And I know it's probably things that I'm, like, supposed
to know, but, um, I had no idea.
S1 (34:38):
Yeah, yeah. Um, so it's a it's a tough position.
I totally get it. And obviously that interest rate is astronomical,
and we want to get out from under that. Um,
I mean, you can refinance with negative equity, but it's harder,
and it's often not your best option. Um, and so,
you know, given that it sounds like your credit has improved,
do you have stable income?
S8 (35:01):
Um, yes. At the moment, yes. Um, praying to God
it it keeps, um, being that way. Um. But. Yes.
S7 (35:09):
Okay.
S1 (35:10):
And what do you think it's worth today? Have you
looked that up recently?
S8 (35:14):
Um, so I actually, um, I visited a dealership today,
and it got a little overwhelming. Um, I was trying
to get, you know, help because, um, I did, uh,
let them know. I don't know if I should just
turn the car in. I was I was just there, like,
ready to just leave the car because I'm like, I
can't do this anymore. I need I need help. Um,
(35:35):
he did suggest I, um, refinance either, uh, through, like,
a credit union or my bank. But he did mention
the car is obviously worth less than. You know what
I owe on the car, so.
S7 (35:48):
Okay, but.
S1 (35:49):
You don't know how much.
S7 (35:51):
No, no. Okay.
S1 (35:52):
All right. Well, I mean, what year is it?
S8 (35:56):
It's a 2020. Okay. It's a Toyota Camry.
S7 (35:59):
Okay.
S1 (36:00):
You know, so let's say it's, you know, worth 15,000.
I mean, you need to look it up again after
we're done here. You could go to Kbb.com and find
that answer pretty quickly. Um, but, you know, I think
the the opportunity is either to look at doing a refinance, um,
and see if that's possible based on the value of this.
(36:20):
There is what's called a voluntary repossession, which is is
not great. Um, you know, but at this point, we're
just looking for how can you kind of rightsize your
situation and, you know, that would allow you to get
out from under this? Um, but it's going to leave
a judgment, you know, against you there with an amount
that you still owe. And, you know, that's not a
(36:42):
good thing. Um, you know, another option would be, uh,
to look at, you know, basically getting into a cheaper car, uh,
seeing if you can, you know, uh, you know, use
this car as, uh, something that you would essentially turn
in and then try to roll that difference into the
new car that's less expensive. And then again, hopefully with your, uh,
(37:04):
you know, your better credit rating and, uh, you know,
the steady work. Maybe you could qualify for a, you know,
a better loan with a lower interest rate. So, you know,
that allows you to, uh, essentially kind of reset the loan.
So I think you need to do some digging here.
First question is, what is it worth? Let's go find
that out. Second is look at your options on refinancing.
(37:27):
I think the third option is could you get into
a cheaper car where they take this as a trade
in and roll perhaps that negative equity into the next
car at better terms? And then the kind of the
last case worst case option would be, you know, looking
at a, at a voluntary repossession that's going to hurt
your credit. But at the end of the day, um,
you know, if you've explored every other route first, that
(37:49):
might be, you know, your last option there.
S8 (37:52):
Okay.
S1 (37:54):
All righty. I know this is tough. Um, let's do this.
I want to offer a certified Christian financial counselor to
come alongside you and help you sort some of these
things out. We're going to pay for it, Blanca. And
at least this will give you a sounding board, somebody
to kind of walk down this road with you and
help you navigate that. Would that be helpful to you?
S8 (38:13):
Um, yes. Yeah, that would be a blessing. Thank you
so much.
S1 (38:16):
Okay, listen, you stay on the line. We're going to
get somebody in touch with you. We're going to pay
for it so it won't cost you anything. And they'll
walk alongside you as we get you, uh, figured out
here in terms of where you go from here, the
Lord is with you. Don't be discouraged. Uh, we're going
to give you some help, and, uh, and you'll get
beyond this and learn from it. And then, uh, let's
make sure we don't repeat this again in the future and, uh,
(38:38):
get you on a on a more solid financial footing. Listen,
you hang in there, Blanca. Hang on the line. We'll
be in touch real soon. Let's go to North Carolina. Hi, Cindy.
How can I help?
S9 (38:48):
Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Um, I was
calling for advice. My dad still owes about $55,000 on
his home. Um, according to his will. Um, we stand
to inherit the house if he passes along. And I
(39:08):
wanted to know what was the best course of action
so that we don't inherit such a large bill. Or
is there any course of action to be taken so
we don't inherit a large bill?
S1 (39:25):
Yeah, there really isn't, Cindy. So the trust and the will,
even what's called a transfer on death. Uh, that only
has to do with how the the assets are transferred
to you. But when someone passes away with a mortgage,
the loan doesn't disappear. So the lender still has a
lien on the home. And whoever inherits the home, whether
(39:48):
it's by way of a will through the probate court
or through a trust, or through a transfer on death deed,
they still inherit it, subject to that death. So that
means generally what happens is they either refinance the loan
into their own name or names if multiple people inherit it,
or they sell the house and pay off the balance
(40:11):
and then keep the proceeds. So the loan is what
it is, whatever that balance is that's owed. Um, you know,
at your dad's passing, it would still be owed. Um,
these other legal instruments are just how the property gets
transferred to you, but they don't have any bearing whatsoever
(40:32):
on on that loan that's going to be paid regardless.
S9 (40:36):
Okay. And as far as, like, maybe taxes goes, is
there a.
S1 (40:41):
There really won't be any taxes because there's no federal
inheritance tax. Um, and you will not have capital gains
because when you inherit a property, you get what's called
a step up in basis. So, uh, with a, with
a piece of real estate from a tax standpoint. What
happens is you buy it. Let's say you buy a
(41:01):
piece of property for 100,000 it it rises in value
to 200,000. And then you sell it at 200,000. Well,
you've got $100,000 in capital gains. The difference between what
you sold it for and what you bought it for,
and then you pay tax. The difference is with an
inheritance is let's say somebody buys a property for 100,000,
it grows to 200, but then they die and it
(41:23):
passes to their heirs. The cost basis steps up as
of the date of death from the original 100,000 that
the deceased paid to the market value as of the
date of death. So there is no more capital gain.
And so, by way of you receiving it as an
inheritance now, the only reason you'd pay taxes is if
(41:43):
you didn't sell it, and from the date you received
it forward, if it appreciates, well, that would be taxable
to you. But if you turn around and sell it
or you just sit on it, there are no taxes owed.
S9 (41:57):
Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you for your advice.
God bless you guys.
S1 (42:01):
All right, Cindy, thanks for your call today. We appreciate
you being on the program. Well, that's going to do
it for us an in Indiana I apologize we didn't
get to you. Let's see if the team can get
you scheduled to be first up tomorrow. I'd love to, uh,
take your question about that, uh, hybrid life insurance policy.
Thanks for your call today, folks. That's going to do
it for us. So thankful to have you along with
us today. I'll tell you where we started today with
(42:22):
Doctor Derwin Gray is just really the heart of the
gospel as it relates to money. We have been given
so much. We have an abundance before the first dollar
because of the shed blood of Jesus and the grace
that has been extended to us, that unmerited favor that
reconciles us to the father. So go out and manage
God's money for his glory. Hey, let me say thanks
(42:43):
to my team today Omar, Lisa, Josh, Taylor, Chris, and
everybody here at Faith five that makes this possible. Faith
and finance is a partnership between Moody Radio and Faith five.
Come back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then.
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