July 31, 2025 • 42 mins
Do you work to live or live to work? For many, the answer is simple: “I work to make a living.” But what if there’s more to work than just earning a paycheck? Could it be that work holds deeper meaning—something essential to who you are and how you’re made? On the next Faith & Finance Live, David Bahnsen joins Rob West to offer a perspective on work you might not have considered. Then, Rob responds to your calls and financial questions. That’s Faith & Finance Live, where biblical wisdom meets today’s finances—weekdays at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:08):
Do you work to live or live to work? For many,
the answer is simple I work to make a living. Hi,
I'm Rob West. But what if there's more to work
than just earning a paycheck? Could it be that work
holds deeper meaning? Something essential to who we are and
how we're made? David Bonson joins us today to offer
a perspective on work you might not have considered. And
(00:29):
then it's on to your calls at 800 525 7000.
That's 805, two five 7000. This is faith in finance. Live.
Biblical wisdom for your financial journey. It's an absolute pleasure
to welcome David Bonson to the program. David is the founder,
(00:50):
managing partner and chief investment officer of the Bonson Group,
a leading private wealth management firm, author of the newly
released book Full Time Work and the Meaning of life. David,
it is a joy to have you with us.
S2 (01:03):
Well, it's a pleasure to be with you.
S1 (01:05):
You opened the book by pushing back on the common idea,
both in our culture and even in the church, that
our identity has nothing to do with work. You call
that nonsense? So why do you believe that mindset is
so misguided?
S2 (01:19):
Well, I'll start with one of the things I said
in the book, which is not only that, I believe
just that what you just stated that that our identity
is connected to what we do. But I also stated
that everybody believes that, that all I'm doing is stating
something that some people might be uncomfortable repeating, but nobody disagrees.
(01:42):
You know, we do not think of a high performing,
high achieving person who's making an impact in the lives
of people producing great things. Uh, and then we see
somebody who's just laying on the couch playing video games
all day and say, oh, yeah, those two people are
the same. We recognize that there's a functional difference in
(02:04):
their contribution to society and to impacting the lives of others.
And what I'm suggesting is that the reason we do
that is not because we are treating people transactionally. It's
because we're recognizing a fact of creation that God created
us to be productive, to be active, to be useful.
(02:25):
Because he himself was a producing, creating, useful, uh, actor
himself and made us in his image. And so that
our work is part of our identity, but not the
entirety of our identity. Strikes me as a totally noncontroversial claim.
S1 (02:45):
Yeah. Well, I think that's well said, and it makes
complete sense. Obviously, what we're not saying is we're not
calling for the fact that our identity in a particular
job title is the key, but rather that being a
worker is an integral part of what it means to
be made in the image of God. And that's exactly
what you just said. You also discuss integrating faith and
(03:05):
work in the book rather than just balancing them. So
talk about what that integration looks like practically.
S2 (03:12):
Well, it's a really important subject in so many elements
of the Christian life. And yes, the way in which
faith integrates with work is is the subject at hand.
But I would argue that when we talk about how
Christians think about money, about education, about politics, about marriage,
about raising children, all of those elements need to see
(03:34):
our feelings, our opinions, our practices rooted to our faith,
where too often what we do is we sprinkle faith
on top. So we build a foundation to these various things.
That is not necessarily rooted to a distinctly Christian world view.
(03:55):
And then we try to sprinkle some verse Bible verses
on top and hope that it all pans out right.
That's what I'm hoping for the faith and work movement,
that there will be more of an effort to really
connect these things to a creational philosophy of work that
sees our work as integral to the human person and
integral to what God designed our lives to be.
S1 (04:18):
Yeah, and it has to do with this sacred, secular divide.
And that begins in the local church, doesn't it, with
teaching in the pulpit.
S2 (04:25):
It does. And so if it begins there a lot
where sometimes the bad teaching might be going on, it's
a wonderful opportunity to have it begin there, to kind
of fix it, to repair it, to take a step
back a little and for the pulpits to to basically say, no,
we do not believe that the our congregants going to
(04:46):
work every week are doing it just for the purpose
of getting to the important stuff, either their families when
they come home at night or the church they go
to on Sunday, but that the work they're going do
is itself important.
S1 (04:59):
That is so important. David Bonson here today. David is
the author of the book Full Time Work and the
Meaning of Life. David is also the founder, managing partner
and chief investment officer of the Bonson Group. More on
work just around the corner. And then your questions at
800 525 7000. Don't go anywhere. We're just getting started.
(05:33):
Work in the meaning of life. That's our topic today. Hi,
I'm Rob West. David Bonson is with me today. He
is the founder, managing partner and chief investment officer of
the Bonson Group, a leading private wealth management firm. He's
also the author of the book Full Time Work and
the Meaning of Life. Pick it up wherever you buy books.
Before the break, David and I were talking about God's
(05:54):
design for work and that secular work is just as
sacred because we were created in the image of a worker,
and we work for productivity, to create human flourishing, to
bless our neighbor. We co-labor with God, he creates out
of nothing, and we create out of his creation the
latent potential that rests inside his creation to bless others.
(06:15):
And we're talking about how our faith intersects with that. David.
Our culture often holds up rest, leisure, and even early
retirement as the ultimate goal of life. What would you
say is the relationship between work and rest?
S2 (06:30):
Well, I believe in what I call in the book
a work rest paradigm, which is very different than work
life balance. And I believe that one of the important
things to understand theologically is that God provided us a
lot of specificity here around a blueprint. There's some specificity
(06:50):
he didn't provide. You know, I try not to get
into the details in the book on is it okay
to go out to restaurants or this or you know
what exactly people view their restful activities to be is
going to vary a little person to person, but the
model of working for six days and resting for one
was the model that God himself did in creation. Then
(07:14):
in Exodus 20 told us that we should do it,
and then told us in that same commandment that the
reason we should do it is because he did it.
And so it really was laid out pretty clearly. And
where I think some Christians go astray is the belief
that the reason we work is so we can rest.
Where I think Scripture is overwhelmingly clear that the reason
(07:35):
we rest is so we can work.
S1 (07:37):
Hmm. Yeah. Let's talk then about how that relates to
the modern cultural view of retirement, that we work throughout
our lives so that we can get to this endpoint
and cease all productive activity, because perhaps we no longer
offer anything of value to society. What do you say
about the cultural view of retirement?
S2 (07:55):
Well, I think that the first thing I'll say is
what I wrote a whole chapter about in the book,
that I'm very critical of, a cultural view of retirement.
One of the things I wish I had done more
in the book to to flesh out, was being critical
of the company's role in that. You know, the mindset
of the workers that entered the workforce, thinking that the
purpose of work was to not do it anymore, and
(08:18):
the mindset of so much in financial services that tries
to ingrain in people that you're supposed to hit a
certain number, from which then you'll have enough resources to
live forever without ever having to work again. And that
that's the goal of our lives. That for the culture
where companies are trying to push people out. Now, look,
(08:39):
I'm all for making room for new up and comers.
I certainly recognize certain blue collar jobs and physical jobs.
You know, I make the joke a lot when I
speak about the book. I'm not asking for 80 year
olds to run down that were police officers to run
down the street chasing bad guys. You know, there's a
kind of stage of life and health dynamic. But but
(09:01):
the important part is this, this underlying idea that there's
expertise and experience and wisdom in seniority. And for us
to chase that out of the workforce is doing a
lot of damage to various sectors of the economy, to
specific businesses and to individual human beings.
S1 (09:20):
That is well said. David. How do you distinguish between,
let's say, a job, a career and a calling? Should
every Christian seek to turn their job into a calling?
S2 (09:31):
Well, it's a very good question because there's certain semantics
that kind of go on sometimes where, um, someone will say,
are you saying I was called by God to, for example, be, uh,
financial advisor at Morgan Stanley? Yeah. And I and then,
you know, I happen to have been at that firm
before and now run my own firm. And I would say,
(09:53):
I don't think our calling is always about the venue,
but do I believe that there is an element of
our calling that is specific to producing, to the actions
that we are taking and exerting when we, uh, serve
mankind by producing goods and services. Are we living out
a calling? My answer to that is yes, but I
(10:15):
don't feel that. And that within our plan, within God's
plan for our calling, there will be a context. We're
embodied human beings. So I have a venue in which,
at one stage in my life, I've been may have
been at one job in one city and another stage
of life in a different context or setting. Those venues
(10:37):
are part of God's plan, but the poor are the calling. That,
I think, is if I can use a big word here,
ontological is not the venue. It's what it is we're doing.
And that actual producing of goods and services that meet
the needs of others that I believe is a vital
part of our calling.
S1 (10:54):
Exactly. David, what would you then say to a young
adult unsure about what they're supposed to do with their life?
How do they pursue work with meaning and purpose?
S2 (11:05):
Well, one of the things that's so challenging in that
incredibly important question, because it comes up quite a bit
and there's a difference between what I call the micro
and the macro. The macro is what I have to
answer with right now. At a high level macro, everyone
should view work as a forum for serving God, for
(11:25):
serving others, for living out their the dignity of being
made in the image of God. That at a macro level,
whether we are cleaning toilets at one stage of our life,
or whether we are a corner office lawyer, that this
is a unit, there is robust importance in work. But see,
on a micro level what it means to, um, you know,
(11:48):
a particular skill set or education or what have you. Um,
I just I just think that we are, um, in
a challenging position to try to take all the macro
principles and then look at the micro understanding all the
specific context. I do believe, though, that a lot of
people's micro case, their specific local, you know, situation in
(12:12):
their own life would benefit from remembering the macro principles,
that there's joy in work, that some jobs are a
stepping stone to other opportunities, that even when it's a
stepping stone, there is value in what we're doing. But
we want to hold on to the big picture that
the journey is what is most important, not merely the destination.
(12:33):
And I think that that line of thinking is what
I would say to any young person trying to figure
out what they want to do with their life. It
is not true that the next day you're supposed to
have your dream job. What you're supposed to have is
an attitude that embraces whatever the next day brings you
with a vision for where you're trying to bring things,
and to do so with excellence, with gratitude, and with
(12:56):
a service mindset. Those are the things I believe in.
S1 (12:59):
David just 30s left. Put a bow on this for
our listening audience. What would you like them to leave
with today?
S2 (13:05):
That the message of society right now, that work is
something you do. Just to have your needs met is
not the Christian message. The Christian message is that we
work because God made us to be workers as he was,
and in so doing we do have our needs met,
but we also are meeting the needs of others. And
this is how we build society, build culture, build civilization,
(13:28):
and ultimately build the Kingdom of God.
S1 (13:31):
Wow, that is fascinating stuff. We're going to have to
leave it there for today. But David, thanks for stopping by.
S2 (13:37):
Thanks so much for having me, Rob.
S1 (13:39):
Our guest today has been David Bonson, author of Full
Time Work and the Meaning of Life. His book offers
a powerful perspective that will reshape the way you view
work in the best possible way. Pick it up where
you buy books. Back with your questions after this. 800
525 7000. I'm Rob Weston. You're listening to Faith in
finance biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. We'll be right
(14:03):
back after this break.
S3 (14:13):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal, or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:37):
Great to have you with us today on Faith in finance. Live.
I'm Rob West. Uh, really thrilled to have David Johnson here.
David is a good friend, obviously very thoughtful. And you
know I love this topic today. I think so often
we miss the the real design for work. You know,
we miss this idea that God created us to be workers,
(15:00):
that he is a worker, that we were created in
his image, that we see his work, his handiwork on
display in creation, and that we're to take his creation
out of nothing and then create, co-create with him, take
the latent potential of his creation, and and make it
productive for human flourishing, to bless and love our neighbor,
(15:20):
innovate and and to create industry and enterprise. And that's
a virtuous cycle. And eventually that leads to economic expansion.
And then the opportunity to give back to the God
who created us and calibrate our hearts to his. That's
God's design. And there is not a a sacred secular divide.
It's not that secular work is any less than sacred
(15:42):
work where you're a full time pastor or missionary. It's
all sacred work when it's done as unto the Lord,
because it's part of our pre-fall design to be workers,
to co-create with God. And so we don't need to see, well,
I'm just paying the bills. That's not it at all.
That's not a biblical worldview. And I love how David
helped us to think about that today. By the way,
(16:04):
pick up a copy of this book. You'll really enjoy
it full time. Work in the meaning of life. All right.
We want to switch gears here today because as we work,
God provides his resources entrusted to us by way of
our wages and our income. And then we have a
responsibility to be found faithful with that as we steward it,
manage it for God's glory and for his purposes as
(16:26):
we provide and enjoy and give and invest. And with
that comes all kinds of questions that we know you
have along the way. So part of why we do
this program every afternoon is to help you make those
decisions in your financial life, to be able to use
God's tool money for his glory. And so if you
have a question today, you want to talk about giving
(16:48):
or debt repayment, or perhaps living within your means setting
up your budget, maybe it's investing for the future. Uh,
you know, a lot going on in the in the
markets these days as we watch just, um, you know,
hitting new all time highs along the way here, uh,
selling off a little bit today, but still, we've got
a red hot stock market here, especially as these tariffs, uh,
(17:11):
seem to we seem to be getting a pattern here
with trade deals. If you're wondering how to navigate that,
we'd love to hear from you. That number 800 525 7000.
We've got lines open. You'll get right through right now
800 525 7000. Uh, we'd love to hear from you.
Let's dive into those questions. We're going to begin in Mississippi.
(17:31):
Theresa is a first time caller. Go ahead.
S4 (17:35):
Hi. Thank you for taking my call.
S5 (17:37):
Yes, ma'am. Hope you're having a good day. I sure am.
I wanted to say, first off, I really appreciate what
David had to say. I listened to that intently. And
being being in the workforce for many, many years, I
even still today I learned a lot. So I appreciate that.
S1 (17:54):
That's great. Thank you.
S5 (17:56):
Okay. Um, I have, uh, possibly an opportunity, uh, maybe
to to buy a home that was inherited by someone
that they want to maybe just unload it. That and
a few other properties. And I am retired, but I
work part time. I'm 68. And, um, and so I
(18:19):
have about 30,000 that I could possibly, uh. It doesn't
need any renovations or anything. And, um, if they go
that route, if they don't, then they may be renting
it for like $500 a month. And, um, so I just, um,
(18:40):
wanted to know if I did go that way, if
it was available to buy. Is that going to impact
my Medicaid and Medicare? Because I'm on both. And, um, which,
you know, I mean, I'm 68 and buying a home.
I don't know if that's a good thing or not.
I mean, it's I mean, because I would be paying out,
(19:01):
paying outright for it. And, um, so I just didn't
know what would be the better option depending on what
they offer.
S1 (19:09):
Yeah, it's a great question. I appreciate that helpful explanation.
Let me just clarify something. You mentioned, uh, that whoever
is the current owner of this house may have inherited it,
and they're just trying to unload it. Does that mean
they're willing to sell it to you below market value? What?
What would that selling price be?
S5 (19:27):
Yes, yes. They're, um, possibly looking to do that for,
I mean, for like 20,000.
S1 (19:36):
So they would sell you the home for 20,000 total?
S5 (19:39):
Yes.
S1 (19:40):
Okay. And what do you believe?
S5 (19:41):
It's even less.
S1 (19:43):
Wow. Yeah. What a blessing. Uh, what do you think
it's worth? Do you have any idea?
S5 (19:48):
I have not looked up the comps in the area, but, um,
it is across the street from a lake, and there's.
They had done a lot of renovations on it themselves.
The person is an elderly man. He's, like, 87, and
he just doesn't want to fool with all these properties
he has. And so he knows that he doesn't want
(20:09):
it to go back to the state or the county
or whatever, or wherever it goes when there's no, uh, beneficiaries.
He just wants to get rid of it.
S1 (20:17):
Wow. Yeah. And is this somebody that, you know personally,
a friend or a family member?
S5 (20:23):
It's a friend of, uh, my sister.
S1 (20:26):
Okay. I mean, that's incredible. I mean, these days, you know,
we don't talk about homes being anywhere near $20,000, not
to mention homes that have been renovated and are in
good shape. Uh, not the least of which is the
location across the street from a lake. So. Sounds too
good to be true, but, hey, there's all kinds of
circumstances that might cause someone to say, I'd like to
(20:46):
just get rid of this. And if I've got a
willing buyer who would appreciate it, I'm willing to unload it.
It actually the difference between the market value and what
he's selling it for, which is probably quite a bit different.
He's giving you a significant discount, so to speak. That's
actually going to be a gift. And he's going to
need to acknowledge that before the IRS. Now it wouldn't
(21:07):
be taxable. It would just chip away at his $13
million lifetime gift exemption. So he'd just have to report it.
But let's do this. When we come back, I'm going
to help you think about let's say it's a, you know,
$15,000 purchase price versus $500 a month. And how you
should think about that in light of your 30,000 savings
plus the Medicare and Medicaid. We'll tackle that right around
(21:29):
the corner. Stay with us. We'll be right back. Great
to have you with us today on faith and finance
here on in America on Moody Radio. We're delighted to
have you with us today. We're taking your calls and questions.
You can call right now 800 525 7000. That's 800
(21:51):
525 7000. Before the break, we were talking to Teresa.
She's a first time caller from Mississippi. Uh, she's 68,
works part time. She has assets of about $30,000 in savings.
She's looking to buy a home or rent. She has
a home that may be available to buy at a
significant discount. The gentleman that owned it is a friend
(22:11):
of a friend, and he inherited this. He wants to
get rid of it. He's put some money into it,
not looking really to get a whole lot out of
it other than just to get it to somebody who
would enjoy it, will sell it, even though it's in
good shape and across from a lake, could perhaps as
as little as 15 to $20,000. Um, which is a significant, uh,
(22:32):
I would imagine, discount from the market value. And Teresa's
wondering if I have the opportunity to buy it, should I,
and use part of my 30,000 if I rent. Sounds
like he'd be willing to rent it to her at
around 500 a month. Um, and she's also wondering would
that impact her Medicare and Medicaid, both of which she
is currently taking advantage of? Uh, in terms of the
(22:55):
renting versus the buying, you may or may not have
a choice. If you did, you know, I would say
buying is the is the better option here. I mean,
renting at 500 a month, that means you'd spend 6000
a year. In less than three years, you would have
paid more than the purchase price. So if you have
that option, buying makes more financial sense. I would imagine
you're living modestly just based on what I'm hearing. And
(23:17):
so even if you took 20,000 of that 30,000, you know,
and you had 10,000 left, I'd imagine that might be,
you know, six months worth of, uh, of income and
the idea that you wouldn't have any costs associated with
the home other than taxes and insurance, which is not insignificant, um,
you know, would would likely be a great option for
you to have a home that you own free and clear,
(23:39):
especially if it's in good shape. Uh, as to the
Medicare Medicaid issue, Medicare is not asset based, so no
issue there. Um, Medicaid is asset tested, but your primary
residence is typically exempt up to generally about $700,000 in equity,
depending on the state. You'd have to check. But in
(24:01):
most cases, buying a home Theresa would not disqualify you
if you later then applied for Medicaid or if you're
on it continuing, uh, to get access to Medicaid so
long as you live in that home and it's your,
your primary residence, does all that make sense?
S5 (24:19):
It does. And that sounds great. I really appreciate that.
The reason, um, I mean, I don't have any. Everything
is paid off. My car, everything. And, um, I have
no credit cards or anything like that. So, um, but
30,000 is just was just like a nest egg for
in case something happened. You know, I needed a car
(24:41):
or something, you know? So when this came up this week,
I'm like, okay, well, maybe that would be a good investment.
S1 (24:49):
So yes. Well, it certainly would be. What you do
need to check on though is the taxes and the insurance,
because those would likely not be insignificant. I mean, let's
say this home is worth not 20,000 but 200,000. Uh,
you know, you could be spending 500 a month, uh,
on the taxes and insurance, property taxes and the homeowner's insurance.
(25:11):
So you may not it may not be that much,
but I just would want you to know what that's
going to be going into it. So you can factor
that in. Well, all the best to you.
S5 (25:20):
Thank you.
S1 (25:21):
Yes, ma'am.
S5 (25:22):
Sister. She buys and flips houses and all this kind
of thing. So she was going to check the land
rolls and just kind of see what's going on with it. So.
S1 (25:30):
All right.
S5 (25:30):
And give me more information on it.
S1 (25:33):
Thank you so much for your call today. Theresa. Call anytime.
Let's go to, uh, North Carolina. Hi, Bailey. How can
I help?
S6 (25:39):
Thank you, Rob, for taking my call.
S1 (25:41):
Yes, ma'am.
S6 (25:42):
I have two rental properties, one of which I have
a mortgage, which the balance is like 28,000. Um, I
do have two credit cards. I have a home home
equity loan that I'm paying on and a car payment. Um,
I recently retired yesterday. Um, my brother and I inherited
(26:05):
our parents home jointly. I live in it, but I've
done all the work in maintenance. He only has helped
with taxes. So with retirement, my thoughts are. Should I
buy him out? Um, I'm just trying to strategize how
(26:25):
I can reduce my debt, knowing that I'm now making less.
And I have some, you know, debts that I do
need to pay off. Or should I sell the house?
Split the cost and purchase another home.
S1 (26:41):
Yeah, yeah. What do you have in the way of
liquid assets? Not counting your pension, your 401 K, uh,
and these rental properties. What do you have? That's liquid?
S6 (26:54):
Uh, I'm going to be getting a pension and Social
Security in November. Uh, outside of the rental. That's it.
S1 (27:02):
Do you have any savings?
S6 (27:04):
No.
S1 (27:05):
Okay, so what would you use, uh, to buy him
out if you did that?
S6 (27:11):
I don't know. That's I don't know. It's just just
been a thought because, um. It's it's I don't know.
I don't have the answer.
S1 (27:23):
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you were maintaining it? Obviously. Um,
you know, this property, uh, you said wasn't inheritance. Is
that right?
S6 (27:33):
It was. Yeah. From my parents. Both deceased. Yes.
S1 (27:37):
Okay. And is your brother willing to let you just
continue to live in it? And someday when it's sold,
he'll get his half? Or is he, you know, pushing
either to get made whole now, um, by you selling
it or buying him out?
S6 (27:54):
He's not saying anything. Um, basically, I've been the leader
in this process. Um. And so I don't know what
his thoughts are. I don't know if he wants me
to sell it, because in his head, he's. How is
he benefiting? Yeah.
S7 (28:10):
Well, right.
S1 (28:11):
Yeah. I mean, the only way he's benefiting is he
owns 50% of it. And if it's appreciating in value,
which most homes do, then he would get the benefit
of that over time. Um, but I would imagine that
he would prefer either for you to buy him out
by taking out a mortgage or paying cash, which you
don't have. So taking out a mortgage and paying him
(28:32):
the half, or by you selling it at the fair
market value and then splitting the proceeds. But he may
not need the money, and maybe he's willing to be patient,
knowing that you don't have the ability to buy it
right now. Uh, you don't have the ability to get
a mortgage right now, and therefore he wants you to
be able to continue to to live in it and
enjoy it. And he's willing to get, you know, his
(28:54):
portion down the road. Uh, with regard to the debt,
I mean, the credit card should be your top priority. They,
of course, carry the highest interest rates. Uh, so I
think once you know, you have the pension income and
the Social Security, you know, that would be a priority.
Keep your income or your lifestyle as low as possible. Uh,
and try to pay that off as quickly as you can. Uh,
(29:17):
you know, the $28,000 mortgage on the rental, if it's
cash flow positive, meaning the rental income is, you know,
covering the debt service on the mortgage and your property
taxes and insurance, and, you know, the repairs that come
with having a rental. You know, that's great. Uh, you know,
you may want to keep that. The other option is,
you know, you could get that sold. Um, you know,
(29:38):
one is paid off. That's a great asset. Maybe you
keep that as a part of your retirement income plan
and put that in an LLC for liability protection. Um,
you know, the other option is with the family home.
You know, maybe you go ahead and sell it to
make yourself more liquid. I'd get an appraisal before you
did that, but, um, you know, I don't think that'd
be a bad idea. So I think you've got a
(30:00):
number one figure out what is my budget look like now,
and and starting in, uh, later in the year when
I get the pension and Social Security so I can
get out of the the credit card debt and then
have a conversation with your brother, seeing if he's looking
to get his half now, or he's willing to be patient,
because if he's willing to be patient, you know, we
get a little further down the road. Maybe you could
buy him out with a mortgage. A lot to think
(30:22):
about and pray about. Bailey. Hopefully that gives you a
few thoughts. Thanks for being on the program. We'll be
right back. You know, as we think about our role
as stewards and managing God's money, we have to start
with the understanding that God owns it all and that
he created money, a good gift as a means of exchange,
(30:45):
as a way to take his resources and put it
to use for human flourishing for productive purposes. That includes enjoyment.
You know, often we miss that, that God is the
God of delight and wonder and joy. He created it all.
And so we should enjoy the gifts that he's given
to us, and that includes the resources he's entrusted to us.
But we're to do that in a in a way
(31:06):
that's balanced and appropriate, living a simple life and understanding
that God should be our ultimate treasure. That although there
are things to enjoy in this world, we should never
let them rival our devotion to God, because he is
the only thing that will bring ultimate satisfaction. And so
we find our satisfaction and enjoyment in him first, and
(31:26):
then we appropriately enjoy his creation, never worshiping the creation
over the creator, but using it seeing as a good
gift to bring God glory, to help others by loving
our neighbor through our giving and our investing, and using
his resources to make decisions daily. And that's what makes
(31:47):
every spending decision a spiritual decision. Because the way I
read Scripture is, the way we handle money is one
of the clearest indicators into what's going on in our
lives spiritually. It says what we value, and so we
try to help you work that out each day on
this program. And we're grateful to be able to answer
some of the questions that you have along the way.
So let's get right back to the phones. We'll go
(32:07):
to Schaumburg, Illinois. Alfredo, how can I help? Alfredo, are
you there? All right. We're going to work on that one.
And in the meantime, we'll go to Stone mountain, Georgia. Hi, Saint.
How can I help?
S8 (32:23):
Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you so much for having me
on your show.
S1 (32:27):
Of course.
S8 (32:27):
I have started listening maybe within the last couple of
months or so, But I was just asking. At 53,
I received Social Security every month and I no longer work.
And that's due to a disability. Um, I simply would
like to know how to start a budget. Um, I
feel like I'm kind of, you know, a 20 year
(32:49):
old starting out in this time in my life as
far as money. But I'd simply know how to have
a budget and use my money a little better.
S1 (33:01):
Yes. Well, let me give you some thoughts on that,
because I appreciate what you're asking. You're saying. And listen,
it's never too late to start. And the key is
to understand we all have made mistakes along the way.
We all wish we, uh, you know, had made different choices.
Or perhaps we wish we would have invested and kind of,
you know, being more adept at some of these areas of,
(33:23):
of our life, including our finances. But the key is
to purpose yourself, to be found faithful from this day forward,
and to see everything you have as a is a gift,
a blessing from the Lord that belongs to him. And
your role is faithfulness. Over a long period of time
and for however long God has you here and he
has me here. We're here on purpose, to bring him
glory and to serve his purposes and and live that
(33:45):
abundant life. When we find that God is our ultimate treasure,
and money is a tool to be used for his purposes.
And the way we manage that is we pull principles
out of Scripture, and those include living within our means
and avoiding debt and setting some long term goals. Because
the longer term our perspective, the better the decision we're
going to make today. Having some margin, meaning if you
(34:07):
get to the end of the month, you have something
left over because that's the only way you fund your
your goals beyond this month's expenses. And then finally give generously,
because giving breaks the grip of money over our lives.
And those five principles find their roots in God's Word.
Spend less than you earn. Avoid the use of debt.
Set long term goals. Have some margin. Give generously. Now
(34:28):
you're asking specifically about the live within my income piece
of that, which is a great starting place because you know,
that is the key or the foundation to financial success
is living within God's provision, not outside of it. And
so you start with your income. And if you're on
disability based Social Security, that's likely that you're that's your
(34:49):
fixed monthly income. So write that number down. That's your
starting point. And then you list all of your monthly expenses.
So that would be your housing and your utilities and
your food and transportation and insurance and medical and debt payments.
Don't forget though, small things like subscriptions or cash spending,
a good rule of thumb would be to track every
dollar for a month to get a clear picture, and
(35:11):
then you sort out your needs versus your wants. Cover
the needs first food, shelter, utilities, medication, then see what's
left for savings, giving or what's called discretionary spending. Those
things we don't get a bill for, but we still
spend money on. Maybe it's clothing or entertainment, things like that.
A very simple way would be to use the envelope method,
(35:34):
where you actually, you know, take the check that you
get cash it, and you literally fund envelopes for all
of your budget categories. Uh, and it just makes sure
that you don't overspend because when the the envelopes gone,
you're done. Or you can use a budgeting app if
you're a little more tech savvy and you'd like to
have something on your phone. That's why we built the
(35:55):
Faith fi app. You'll find it in your app store.
Faith fi it's the envelope system in a modern digital expression.
And then I would say, finally look for some help.
And I'm going to provide that to you here, because
what I'd like to do for you, if you'd be willing,
Saint is for, uh, a certified Christian financial counselor to
connect with you, to walk alongside you, uh, over about
(36:18):
a month, over maybe a several meetings over the phone,
maybe the if you have a computer, maybe through a,
a web connection. And for that person to be able
to pray with you, talk to you about your specific plan,
help you set up that spending plan, and get you
kind of pointed in the right direction. So, you know,
you have some confidence that you understand how the mechanics
(36:39):
of all this work. And we'd be happy to pay
for that. So there won't be any cost to you
just as our gift to you. But give me your
thoughts on all how that sounds.
S8 (36:48):
Absolutely. I would greatly appreciate that. Good. That sounds wonderful.
And thank you for your help.
S1 (36:55):
Well, I'd be delighted to do it. I'm so glad
you called today. You got this? No. Uh, you know,
I don't want you to be discouraged. God sees you.
He is your provider. He loves you. Uh, he is
your ultimate treasure. And, um, you can learn how to
manage money God's way. And I think this, uh, this
financial counselor will be a great start and get you
(37:15):
pointed in the right direction. So stay on the line.
We'll get your information, and we'll get a cert CFC
in touch with you. Uh, to get started. Thanks for
your call. Schaumburg, Illinois is where, uh, Alfredo is. I
think we've got you back now. Go right ahead with
your question.
S9 (37:29):
Yes. Can you hear me, Rob?
S1 (37:30):
I sure can, yep.
S9 (37:32):
Taking my call. Second time caller I love the show.
Love Moody radio.
S1 (37:36):
Awesome. Thank you.
S9 (37:38):
So my question is, uh, my my uncle. More like
a cousin brother. He's only two years older than me.
Is not doing well. Uh, going to put the property
his townhome into my name because he's probably going to
go on hospice sooner than we think. And we need
to pay taxes. Association dues overdue, uh, by probably close
(38:00):
to $10,000. And there's going to be probably another $10,000
we have to put into the property to get it
to selling point. And then any future insurance, taxes, association dues,
we may need a loan of about 25, $30,000. When
it's all said and done, the property is paid for. Um,
obviously I have to get it into my name first
(38:21):
via a quitclaim deed or something. Um, but once that's done,
I was thinking of a HELOC. Unless you have any
other suggestions that might be better.
S1 (38:29):
Yeah, it's a great question, and I realize there's a
lot going on here. So this is a challenging situation
that you've got, um, you know, in terms of, uh,
you know, how to think about handling that property if
you're trying to cover, uh, you know, 15 to 20,000
for taxes and fees and repairs, um, you know, your
(38:50):
main options once you put the property legally in your name,
and that would be necessary. And you're right, a quitclaim
deed is the easiest way to do that. Um, would be,
in fact, a home equity line of credit. So it's
only available if you already own the home and it
has equity. Uh, it's not an option until the deed
is transferred. But at that point, uh, yes, that would
(39:12):
be the way to do it. You could get a
line of credit. Um, you know, there are lines out
there right now. I know Bank of America and a
few others have lines of credit where there's no, uh,
you know, fees, meaning, you know, you might not have
to pay any kind of administrative fees or appraisal or
anything like that. You'd probably pay somewhere around Prime plus
a half a point, maybe Prime plus one. Uh, prime
(39:36):
right now is seven and a half. So you may
have an interest rate of 8 to 8 and a half.
But the good news is, if you get a variable rate,
which most helocs are, it would come down as interest
rates fall. And we expect that to happen, or at
least begin to happen before the end of the year. Um,
so I think you're on the right track there. Um,
you know, I would not spend any money on the
house until the ownership is clear, and you might want
(39:58):
to consult an estate attorney or another type of attorney
to ensure the deed transfer is done properly and legally.
But once that done is done, I think the HELOC
is the way to go.
S9 (40:10):
Now, I'm guessing that is immediate. Once the quitclaim deed
is done, then I can immediately apply.
S1 (40:16):
Uh, yeah. I mean, it needs to be filed with
the county records office, but yes, it would happen pretty quickly.
S9 (40:23):
Okay. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Robert I appreciate it.
S1 (40:27):
All right. Absolutely. Thanks for your call today. We appreciate
you being on the program. And, uh, thanks for your
kind remarks. Uh, about the program. Let's see. Uh, we're
headed to Ocala next. James. Go right ahead.
S10 (40:39):
Yes, sir. Um, my question is, uh, is this. I
found out if I retire at 62, I'll be getting 2143. Uh,
I am in good shape to work. Uh, I would
like to continue working. I'm going to be, uh, 62
in January. And I want to know if that's a
good idea, because I heard that if you're working and
you're collecting, you get into a higher tax bracket, something
(41:02):
like that. I need to just get some clarification.
S1 (41:05):
Yeah. There's a couple of things that would affect you here.
And it's a great question James. Number one, there's an
earnings limit before full retirement age. So in 2025 if
you're under full retirement age and you earn more than
2200 $320 for the year, Social Security will withhold a
dollar for every $2 you earn over that limit. That's
not a tax. It's just delayed benefits because you'll get
(41:27):
it back later in the form of higher payments. Once
you reach full retirement age. Now, it may take ten
years for them to pay back everything they withheld, but
just be aware that's going to happen. And then the
second is related to taxes. And I think this is
what you were getting at just a moment ago. And
that is that, um, you know, if your combined income,
which is half of your Social Security plus your wages
(41:49):
plus any other income exceeds certain thresholds, that's when your
Social Security is taxed. And so you need to understand,
depending on how much you're going to earn that, you know,
some of that Social Security is going to be taxed
up to as much as 85% of your benefits can
be taxable. So I'd check with the CPA on that.
(42:10):
Hopefully that helps you clear things up. Thanks for your
call today, James. Faith in finance lives of partnership between
Moody Radio and amazing team today Sarah, Omar, Lisa and Jim.
We'll see you next time. Bye bye.
Do you work to live or live to work? For many,
the answer is simple I work to make a living. Hi,
I'm Rob West. But what if there's more to work
than just earning a paycheck? Could it be that work
holds deeper meaning? Something essential to who we are and
how we're made? David Bonson joins us today to offer
a perspective on work you might not have considered. And
(00:29):
then it's on to your calls at 800 525 7000.
That's 805, two five 7000. This is faith in finance. Live.
Biblical wisdom for your financial journey. It's an absolute pleasure
to welcome David Bonson to the program. David is the founder,
(00:50):
managing partner and chief investment officer of the Bonson Group,
a leading private wealth management firm, author of the newly
released book Full Time Work and the Meaning of life. David,
it is a joy to have you with us.
S2 (01:03):
Well, it's a pleasure to be with you.
S1 (01:05):
You opened the book by pushing back on the common idea,
both in our culture and even in the church, that
our identity has nothing to do with work. You call
that nonsense? So why do you believe that mindset is
so misguided?
S2 (01:19):
Well, I'll start with one of the things I said
in the book, which is not only that, I believe
just that what you just stated that that our identity
is connected to what we do. But I also stated
that everybody believes that, that all I'm doing is stating
something that some people might be uncomfortable repeating, but nobody disagrees.
(01:42):
You know, we do not think of a high performing,
high achieving person who's making an impact in the lives
of people producing great things. Uh, and then we see
somebody who's just laying on the couch playing video games
all day and say, oh, yeah, those two people are
the same. We recognize that there's a functional difference in
(02:04):
their contribution to society and to impacting the lives of others.
And what I'm suggesting is that the reason we do
that is not because we are treating people transactionally. It's
because we're recognizing a fact of creation that God created
us to be productive, to be active, to be useful.
(02:25):
Because he himself was a producing, creating, useful, uh, actor
himself and made us in his image. And so that
our work is part of our identity, but not the
entirety of our identity. Strikes me as a totally noncontroversial claim.
S1 (02:45):
Yeah. Well, I think that's well said, and it makes
complete sense. Obviously, what we're not saying is we're not
calling for the fact that our identity in a particular
job title is the key, but rather that being a
worker is an integral part of what it means to
be made in the image of God. And that's exactly
what you just said. You also discuss integrating faith and
(03:05):
work in the book rather than just balancing them. So
talk about what that integration looks like practically.
S2 (03:12):
Well, it's a really important subject in so many elements
of the Christian life. And yes, the way in which
faith integrates with work is is the subject at hand.
But I would argue that when we talk about how
Christians think about money, about education, about politics, about marriage,
about raising children, all of those elements need to see
(03:34):
our feelings, our opinions, our practices rooted to our faith,
where too often what we do is we sprinkle faith
on top. So we build a foundation to these various things.
That is not necessarily rooted to a distinctly Christian world view.
(03:55):
And then we try to sprinkle some verse Bible verses
on top and hope that it all pans out right.
That's what I'm hoping for the faith and work movement,
that there will be more of an effort to really
connect these things to a creational philosophy of work that
sees our work as integral to the human person and
integral to what God designed our lives to be.
S1 (04:18):
Yeah, and it has to do with this sacred, secular divide.
And that begins in the local church, doesn't it, with
teaching in the pulpit.
S2 (04:25):
It does. And so if it begins there a lot
where sometimes the bad teaching might be going on, it's
a wonderful opportunity to have it begin there, to kind
of fix it, to repair it, to take a step
back a little and for the pulpits to to basically say, no,
we do not believe that the our congregants going to
(04:46):
work every week are doing it just for the purpose
of getting to the important stuff, either their families when
they come home at night or the church they go
to on Sunday, but that the work they're going do
is itself important.
S1 (04:59):
That is so important. David Bonson here today. David is
the author of the book Full Time Work and the
Meaning of Life. David is also the founder, managing partner
and chief investment officer of the Bonson Group. More on
work just around the corner. And then your questions at
800 525 7000. Don't go anywhere. We're just getting started.
(05:33):
Work in the meaning of life. That's our topic today. Hi,
I'm Rob West. David Bonson is with me today. He
is the founder, managing partner and chief investment officer of
the Bonson Group, a leading private wealth management firm. He's
also the author of the book Full Time Work and
the Meaning of Life. Pick it up wherever you buy books.
Before the break, David and I were talking about God's
(05:54):
design for work and that secular work is just as
sacred because we were created in the image of a worker,
and we work for productivity, to create human flourishing, to
bless our neighbor. We co-labor with God, he creates out
of nothing, and we create out of his creation the
latent potential that rests inside his creation to bless others.
(06:15):
And we're talking about how our faith intersects with that. David.
Our culture often holds up rest, leisure, and even early
retirement as the ultimate goal of life. What would you
say is the relationship between work and rest?
S2 (06:30):
Well, I believe in what I call in the book
a work rest paradigm, which is very different than work
life balance. And I believe that one of the important
things to understand theologically is that God provided us a
lot of specificity here around a blueprint. There's some specificity
(06:50):
he didn't provide. You know, I try not to get
into the details in the book on is it okay
to go out to restaurants or this or you know
what exactly people view their restful activities to be is
going to vary a little person to person, but the
model of working for six days and resting for one
was the model that God himself did in creation. Then
(07:14):
in Exodus 20 told us that we should do it,
and then told us in that same commandment that the
reason we should do it is because he did it.
And so it really was laid out pretty clearly. And
where I think some Christians go astray is the belief
that the reason we work is so we can rest.
Where I think Scripture is overwhelmingly clear that the reason
(07:35):
we rest is so we can work.
S1 (07:37):
Hmm. Yeah. Let's talk then about how that relates to
the modern cultural view of retirement, that we work throughout
our lives so that we can get to this endpoint
and cease all productive activity, because perhaps we no longer
offer anything of value to society. What do you say
about the cultural view of retirement?
S2 (07:55):
Well, I think that the first thing I'll say is
what I wrote a whole chapter about in the book,
that I'm very critical of, a cultural view of retirement.
One of the things I wish I had done more
in the book to to flesh out, was being critical
of the company's role in that. You know, the mindset
of the workers that entered the workforce, thinking that the
purpose of work was to not do it anymore, and
(08:18):
the mindset of so much in financial services that tries
to ingrain in people that you're supposed to hit a
certain number, from which then you'll have enough resources to
live forever without ever having to work again. And that
that's the goal of our lives. That for the culture
where companies are trying to push people out. Now, look,
(08:39):
I'm all for making room for new up and comers.
I certainly recognize certain blue collar jobs and physical jobs.
You know, I make the joke a lot when I
speak about the book. I'm not asking for 80 year
olds to run down that were police officers to run
down the street chasing bad guys. You know, there's a
kind of stage of life and health dynamic. But but
(09:01):
the important part is this, this underlying idea that there's
expertise and experience and wisdom in seniority. And for us
to chase that out of the workforce is doing a
lot of damage to various sectors of the economy, to
specific businesses and to individual human beings.
S1 (09:20):
That is well said. David. How do you distinguish between,
let's say, a job, a career and a calling? Should
every Christian seek to turn their job into a calling?
S2 (09:31):
Well, it's a very good question because there's certain semantics
that kind of go on sometimes where, um, someone will say,
are you saying I was called by God to, for example, be, uh,
financial advisor at Morgan Stanley? Yeah. And I and then,
you know, I happen to have been at that firm
before and now run my own firm. And I would say,
(09:53):
I don't think our calling is always about the venue,
but do I believe that there is an element of
our calling that is specific to producing, to the actions
that we are taking and exerting when we, uh, serve
mankind by producing goods and services. Are we living out
a calling? My answer to that is yes, but I
(10:15):
don't feel that. And that within our plan, within God's
plan for our calling, there will be a context. We're
embodied human beings. So I have a venue in which,
at one stage in my life, I've been may have
been at one job in one city and another stage
of life in a different context or setting. Those venues
(10:37):
are part of God's plan, but the poor are the calling. That,
I think, is if I can use a big word here,
ontological is not the venue. It's what it is we're doing.
And that actual producing of goods and services that meet
the needs of others that I believe is a vital
part of our calling.
S1 (10:54):
Exactly. David, what would you then say to a young
adult unsure about what they're supposed to do with their life?
How do they pursue work with meaning and purpose?
S2 (11:05):
Well, one of the things that's so challenging in that
incredibly important question, because it comes up quite a bit
and there's a difference between what I call the micro
and the macro. The macro is what I have to
answer with right now. At a high level macro, everyone
should view work as a forum for serving God, for
(11:25):
serving others, for living out their the dignity of being
made in the image of God. That at a macro level,
whether we are cleaning toilets at one stage of our life,
or whether we are a corner office lawyer, that this
is a unit, there is robust importance in work. But see,
on a micro level what it means to, um, you know,
(11:48):
a particular skill set or education or what have you. Um,
I just I just think that we are, um, in
a challenging position to try to take all the macro
principles and then look at the micro understanding all the
specific context. I do believe, though, that a lot of
people's micro case, their specific local, you know, situation in
(12:12):
their own life would benefit from remembering the macro principles,
that there's joy in work, that some jobs are a
stepping stone to other opportunities, that even when it's a
stepping stone, there is value in what we're doing. But
we want to hold on to the big picture that
the journey is what is most important, not merely the destination.
(12:33):
And I think that that line of thinking is what
I would say to any young person trying to figure
out what they want to do with their life. It
is not true that the next day you're supposed to
have your dream job. What you're supposed to have is
an attitude that embraces whatever the next day brings you
with a vision for where you're trying to bring things,
and to do so with excellence, with gratitude, and with
(12:56):
a service mindset. Those are the things I believe in.
S1 (12:59):
David just 30s left. Put a bow on this for
our listening audience. What would you like them to leave
with today?
S2 (13:05):
That the message of society right now, that work is
something you do. Just to have your needs met is
not the Christian message. The Christian message is that we
work because God made us to be workers as he was,
and in so doing we do have our needs met,
but we also are meeting the needs of others. And
this is how we build society, build culture, build civilization,
(13:28):
and ultimately build the Kingdom of God.
S1 (13:31):
Wow, that is fascinating stuff. We're going to have to
leave it there for today. But David, thanks for stopping by.
S2 (13:37):
Thanks so much for having me, Rob.
S1 (13:39):
Our guest today has been David Bonson, author of Full
Time Work and the Meaning of Life. His book offers
a powerful perspective that will reshape the way you view
work in the best possible way. Pick it up where
you buy books. Back with your questions after this. 800
525 7000. I'm Rob Weston. You're listening to Faith in
finance biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. We'll be right
(14:03):
back after this break.
S3 (14:13):
The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or
professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only.
Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from
a financial, medical, legal, or other professional who understands your
specific situation.
S1 (14:37):
Great to have you with us today on Faith in finance. Live.
I'm Rob West. Uh, really thrilled to have David Johnson here.
David is a good friend, obviously very thoughtful. And you
know I love this topic today. I think so often
we miss the the real design for work. You know,
we miss this idea that God created us to be workers,
(15:00):
that he is a worker, that we were created in
his image, that we see his work, his handiwork on
display in creation, and that we're to take his creation
out of nothing and then create, co-create with him, take
the latent potential of his creation, and and make it
productive for human flourishing, to bless and love our neighbor,
(15:20):
innovate and and to create industry and enterprise. And that's
a virtuous cycle. And eventually that leads to economic expansion.
And then the opportunity to give back to the God
who created us and calibrate our hearts to his. That's
God's design. And there is not a a sacred secular divide.
It's not that secular work is any less than sacred
(15:42):
work where you're a full time pastor or missionary. It's
all sacred work when it's done as unto the Lord,
because it's part of our pre-fall design to be workers,
to co-create with God. And so we don't need to see, well,
I'm just paying the bills. That's not it at all.
That's not a biblical worldview. And I love how David
helped us to think about that today. By the way,
(16:04):
pick up a copy of this book. You'll really enjoy
it full time. Work in the meaning of life. All right.
We want to switch gears here today because as we work,
God provides his resources entrusted to us by way of
our wages and our income. And then we have a
responsibility to be found faithful with that as we steward it,
manage it for God's glory and for his purposes as
(16:26):
we provide and enjoy and give and invest. And with
that comes all kinds of questions that we know you
have along the way. So part of why we do
this program every afternoon is to help you make those
decisions in your financial life, to be able to use
God's tool money for his glory. And so if you
have a question today, you want to talk about giving
(16:48):
or debt repayment, or perhaps living within your means setting
up your budget, maybe it's investing for the future. Uh,
you know, a lot going on in the in the
markets these days as we watch just, um, you know,
hitting new all time highs along the way here, uh,
selling off a little bit today, but still, we've got
a red hot stock market here, especially as these tariffs, uh,
(17:11):
seem to we seem to be getting a pattern here
with trade deals. If you're wondering how to navigate that,
we'd love to hear from you. That number 800 525 7000.
We've got lines open. You'll get right through right now
800 525 7000. Uh, we'd love to hear from you.
Let's dive into those questions. We're going to begin in Mississippi.
(17:31):
Theresa is a first time caller. Go ahead.
S4 (17:35):
Hi. Thank you for taking my call.
S5 (17:37):
Yes, ma'am. Hope you're having a good day. I sure am.
I wanted to say, first off, I really appreciate what
David had to say. I listened to that intently. And
being being in the workforce for many, many years, I
even still today I learned a lot. So I appreciate that.
S1 (17:54):
That's great. Thank you.
S5 (17:56):
Okay. Um, I have, uh, possibly an opportunity, uh, maybe
to to buy a home that was inherited by someone
that they want to maybe just unload it. That and
a few other properties. And I am retired, but I
work part time. I'm 68. And, um, and so I
(18:19):
have about 30,000 that I could possibly, uh. It doesn't
need any renovations or anything. And, um, if they go
that route, if they don't, then they may be renting
it for like $500 a month. And, um, so I just, um,
(18:40):
wanted to know if I did go that way, if
it was available to buy. Is that going to impact
my Medicaid and Medicare? Because I'm on both. And, um, which,
you know, I mean, I'm 68 and buying a home.
I don't know if that's a good thing or not.
I mean, it's I mean, because I would be paying out,
(19:01):
paying outright for it. And, um, so I just didn't
know what would be the better option depending on what
they offer.
S1 (19:09):
Yeah, it's a great question. I appreciate that helpful explanation.
Let me just clarify something. You mentioned, uh, that whoever
is the current owner of this house may have inherited it,
and they're just trying to unload it. Does that mean
they're willing to sell it to you below market value? What?
What would that selling price be?
S5 (19:27):
Yes, yes. They're, um, possibly looking to do that for,
I mean, for like 20,000.
S1 (19:36):
So they would sell you the home for 20,000 total?
S5 (19:39):
Yes.
S1 (19:40):
Okay. And what do you believe?
S5 (19:41):
It's even less.
S1 (19:43):
Wow. Yeah. What a blessing. Uh, what do you think
it's worth? Do you have any idea?
S5 (19:48):
I have not looked up the comps in the area, but, um,
it is across the street from a lake, and there's.
They had done a lot of renovations on it themselves.
The person is an elderly man. He's, like, 87, and
he just doesn't want to fool with all these properties
he has. And so he knows that he doesn't want
(20:09):
it to go back to the state or the county
or whatever, or wherever it goes when there's no, uh, beneficiaries.
He just wants to get rid of it.
S1 (20:17):
Wow. Yeah. And is this somebody that, you know personally,
a friend or a family member?
S5 (20:23):
It's a friend of, uh, my sister.
S1 (20:26):
Okay. I mean, that's incredible. I mean, these days, you know,
we don't talk about homes being anywhere near $20,000, not
to mention homes that have been renovated and are in
good shape. Uh, not the least of which is the
location across the street from a lake. So. Sounds too
good to be true, but, hey, there's all kinds of
circumstances that might cause someone to say, I'd like to
(20:46):
just get rid of this. And if I've got a
willing buyer who would appreciate it, I'm willing to unload it.
It actually the difference between the market value and what
he's selling it for, which is probably quite a bit different.
He's giving you a significant discount, so to speak. That's
actually going to be a gift. And he's going to
need to acknowledge that before the IRS. Now it wouldn't
(21:07):
be taxable. It would just chip away at his $13
million lifetime gift exemption. So he'd just have to report it.
But let's do this. When we come back, I'm going
to help you think about let's say it's a, you know,
$15,000 purchase price versus $500 a month. And how you
should think about that in light of your 30,000 savings
plus the Medicare and Medicaid. We'll tackle that right around
(21:29):
the corner. Stay with us. We'll be right back. Great
to have you with us today on faith and finance
here on in America on Moody Radio. We're delighted to
have you with us today. We're taking your calls and questions.
You can call right now 800 525 7000. That's 800
(21:51):
525 7000. Before the break, we were talking to Teresa.
She's a first time caller from Mississippi. Uh, she's 68,
works part time. She has assets of about $30,000 in savings.
She's looking to buy a home or rent. She has
a home that may be available to buy at a
significant discount. The gentleman that owned it is a friend
(22:11):
of a friend, and he inherited this. He wants to
get rid of it. He's put some money into it,
not looking really to get a whole lot out of
it other than just to get it to somebody who
would enjoy it, will sell it, even though it's in
good shape and across from a lake, could perhaps as
as little as 15 to $20,000. Um, which is a significant, uh,
(22:32):
I would imagine, discount from the market value. And Teresa's
wondering if I have the opportunity to buy it, should I,
and use part of my 30,000 if I rent. Sounds
like he'd be willing to rent it to her at
around 500 a month. Um, and she's also wondering would
that impact her Medicare and Medicaid, both of which she
is currently taking advantage of? Uh, in terms of the
(22:55):
renting versus the buying, you may or may not have
a choice. If you did, you know, I would say
buying is the is the better option here. I mean,
renting at 500 a month, that means you'd spend 6000
a year. In less than three years, you would have
paid more than the purchase price. So if you have
that option, buying makes more financial sense. I would imagine
you're living modestly just based on what I'm hearing. And
(23:17):
so even if you took 20,000 of that 30,000, you know,
and you had 10,000 left, I'd imagine that might be,
you know, six months worth of, uh, of income and
the idea that you wouldn't have any costs associated with
the home other than taxes and insurance, which is not insignificant, um,
you know, would would likely be a great option for
you to have a home that you own free and clear,
(23:39):
especially if it's in good shape. Uh, as to the
Medicare Medicaid issue, Medicare is not asset based, so no
issue there. Um, Medicaid is asset tested, but your primary
residence is typically exempt up to generally about $700,000 in equity,
depending on the state. You'd have to check. But in
(24:01):
most cases, buying a home Theresa would not disqualify you
if you later then applied for Medicaid or if you're
on it continuing, uh, to get access to Medicaid so
long as you live in that home and it's your,
your primary residence, does all that make sense?
S5 (24:19):
It does. And that sounds great. I really appreciate that.
The reason, um, I mean, I don't have any. Everything
is paid off. My car, everything. And, um, I have
no credit cards or anything like that. So, um, but
30,000 is just was just like a nest egg for
in case something happened. You know, I needed a car
(24:41):
or something, you know? So when this came up this week,
I'm like, okay, well, maybe that would be a good investment.
S1 (24:49):
So yes. Well, it certainly would be. What you do
need to check on though is the taxes and the insurance,
because those would likely not be insignificant. I mean, let's
say this home is worth not 20,000 but 200,000. Uh,
you know, you could be spending 500 a month, uh,
on the taxes and insurance, property taxes and the homeowner's insurance.
(25:11):
So you may not it may not be that much,
but I just would want you to know what that's
going to be going into it. So you can factor
that in. Well, all the best to you.
S5 (25:20):
Thank you.
S1 (25:21):
Yes, ma'am.
S5 (25:22):
Sister. She buys and flips houses and all this kind
of thing. So she was going to check the land
rolls and just kind of see what's going on with it. So.
S1 (25:30):
All right.
S5 (25:30):
And give me more information on it.
S1 (25:33):
Thank you so much for your call today. Theresa. Call anytime.
Let's go to, uh, North Carolina. Hi, Bailey. How can
I help?
S6 (25:39):
Thank you, Rob, for taking my call.
S1 (25:41):
Yes, ma'am.
S6 (25:42):
I have two rental properties, one of which I have
a mortgage, which the balance is like 28,000. Um, I
do have two credit cards. I have a home home
equity loan that I'm paying on and a car payment. Um,
I recently retired yesterday. Um, my brother and I inherited
(26:05):
our parents home jointly. I live in it, but I've
done all the work in maintenance. He only has helped
with taxes. So with retirement, my thoughts are. Should I
buy him out? Um, I'm just trying to strategize how
(26:25):
I can reduce my debt, knowing that I'm now making less.
And I have some, you know, debts that I do
need to pay off. Or should I sell the house?
Split the cost and purchase another home.
S1 (26:41):
Yeah, yeah. What do you have in the way of
liquid assets? Not counting your pension, your 401 K, uh,
and these rental properties. What do you have? That's liquid?
S6 (26:54):
Uh, I'm going to be getting a pension and Social
Security in November. Uh, outside of the rental. That's it.
S1 (27:02):
Do you have any savings?
S6 (27:04):
No.
S1 (27:05):
Okay, so what would you use, uh, to buy him
out if you did that?
S6 (27:11):
I don't know. That's I don't know. It's just just
been a thought because, um. It's it's I don't know.
I don't have the answer.
S1 (27:23):
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you were maintaining it? Obviously. Um,
you know, this property, uh, you said wasn't inheritance. Is
that right?
S6 (27:33):
It was. Yeah. From my parents. Both deceased. Yes.
S1 (27:37):
Okay. And is your brother willing to let you just
continue to live in it? And someday when it's sold,
he'll get his half? Or is he, you know, pushing
either to get made whole now, um, by you selling
it or buying him out?
S6 (27:54):
He's not saying anything. Um, basically, I've been the leader
in this process. Um. And so I don't know what
his thoughts are. I don't know if he wants me
to sell it, because in his head, he's. How is
he benefiting? Yeah.
S7 (28:10):
Well, right.
S1 (28:11):
Yeah. I mean, the only way he's benefiting is he
owns 50% of it. And if it's appreciating in value,
which most homes do, then he would get the benefit
of that over time. Um, but I would imagine that
he would prefer either for you to buy him out
by taking out a mortgage or paying cash, which you
don't have. So taking out a mortgage and paying him
(28:32):
the half, or by you selling it at the fair
market value and then splitting the proceeds. But he may
not need the money, and maybe he's willing to be patient,
knowing that you don't have the ability to buy it
right now. Uh, you don't have the ability to get
a mortgage right now, and therefore he wants you to
be able to continue to to live in it and
enjoy it. And he's willing to get, you know, his
(28:54):
portion down the road. Uh, with regard to the debt,
I mean, the credit card should be your top priority. They,
of course, carry the highest interest rates. Uh, so I
think once you know, you have the pension income and
the Social Security, you know, that would be a priority.
Keep your income or your lifestyle as low as possible. Uh,
and try to pay that off as quickly as you can. Uh,
(29:17):
you know, the $28,000 mortgage on the rental, if it's
cash flow positive, meaning the rental income is, you know,
covering the debt service on the mortgage and your property
taxes and insurance, and, you know, the repairs that come
with having a rental. You know, that's great. Uh, you know,
you may want to keep that. The other option is,
you know, you could get that sold. Um, you know,
(29:38):
one is paid off. That's a great asset. Maybe you
keep that as a part of your retirement income plan
and put that in an LLC for liability protection. Um,
you know, the other option is with the family home.
You know, maybe you go ahead and sell it to
make yourself more liquid. I'd get an appraisal before you
did that, but, um, you know, I don't think that'd
be a bad idea. So I think you've got a
(30:00):
number one figure out what is my budget look like now,
and and starting in, uh, later in the year when
I get the pension and Social Security so I can
get out of the the credit card debt and then
have a conversation with your brother, seeing if he's looking
to get his half now, or he's willing to be patient,
because if he's willing to be patient, you know, we
get a little further down the road. Maybe you could
buy him out with a mortgage. A lot to think
(30:22):
about and pray about. Bailey. Hopefully that gives you a
few thoughts. Thanks for being on the program. We'll be
right back. You know, as we think about our role
as stewards and managing God's money, we have to start
with the understanding that God owns it all and that
he created money, a good gift as a means of exchange,
(30:45):
as a way to take his resources and put it
to use for human flourishing for productive purposes. That includes enjoyment.
You know, often we miss that, that God is the
God of delight and wonder and joy. He created it all.
And so we should enjoy the gifts that he's given
to us, and that includes the resources he's entrusted to us.
But we're to do that in a in a way
(31:06):
that's balanced and appropriate, living a simple life and understanding
that God should be our ultimate treasure. That although there
are things to enjoy in this world, we should never
let them rival our devotion to God, because he is
the only thing that will bring ultimate satisfaction. And so
we find our satisfaction and enjoyment in him first, and
(31:26):
then we appropriately enjoy his creation, never worshiping the creation
over the creator, but using it seeing as a good
gift to bring God glory, to help others by loving
our neighbor through our giving and our investing, and using
his resources to make decisions daily. And that's what makes
(31:47):
every spending decision a spiritual decision. Because the way I
read Scripture is, the way we handle money is one
of the clearest indicators into what's going on in our
lives spiritually. It says what we value, and so we
try to help you work that out each day on
this program. And we're grateful to be able to answer
some of the questions that you have along the way.
So let's get right back to the phones. We'll go
(32:07):
to Schaumburg, Illinois. Alfredo, how can I help? Alfredo, are
you there? All right. We're going to work on that one.
And in the meantime, we'll go to Stone mountain, Georgia. Hi, Saint.
How can I help?
S8 (32:23):
Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you so much for having me
on your show.
S1 (32:27):
Of course.
S8 (32:27):
I have started listening maybe within the last couple of
months or so, But I was just asking. At 53,
I received Social Security every month and I no longer work.
And that's due to a disability. Um, I simply would
like to know how to start a budget. Um, I
feel like I'm kind of, you know, a 20 year
(32:49):
old starting out in this time in my life as
far as money. But I'd simply know how to have
a budget and use my money a little better.
S1 (33:01):
Yes. Well, let me give you some thoughts on that,
because I appreciate what you're asking. You're saying. And listen,
it's never too late to start. And the key is
to understand we all have made mistakes along the way.
We all wish we, uh, you know, had made different choices.
Or perhaps we wish we would have invested and kind of,
you know, being more adept at some of these areas of,
(33:23):
of our life, including our finances. But the key is
to purpose yourself, to be found faithful from this day forward,
and to see everything you have as a is a gift,
a blessing from the Lord that belongs to him. And
your role is faithfulness. Over a long period of time
and for however long God has you here and he
has me here. We're here on purpose, to bring him
glory and to serve his purposes and and live that
(33:45):
abundant life. When we find that God is our ultimate treasure,
and money is a tool to be used for his purposes.
And the way we manage that is we pull principles
out of Scripture, and those include living within our means
and avoiding debt and setting some long term goals. Because
the longer term our perspective, the better the decision we're
going to make today. Having some margin, meaning if you
(34:07):
get to the end of the month, you have something
left over because that's the only way you fund your
your goals beyond this month's expenses. And then finally give generously,
because giving breaks the grip of money over our lives.
And those five principles find their roots in God's Word.
Spend less than you earn. Avoid the use of debt.
Set long term goals. Have some margin. Give generously. Now
(34:28):
you're asking specifically about the live within my income piece
of that, which is a great starting place because you know,
that is the key or the foundation to financial success
is living within God's provision, not outside of it. And
so you start with your income. And if you're on
disability based Social Security, that's likely that you're that's your
(34:49):
fixed monthly income. So write that number down. That's your
starting point. And then you list all of your monthly expenses.
So that would be your housing and your utilities and
your food and transportation and insurance and medical and debt payments.
Don't forget though, small things like subscriptions or cash spending,
a good rule of thumb would be to track every
dollar for a month to get a clear picture, and
(35:11):
then you sort out your needs versus your wants. Cover
the needs first food, shelter, utilities, medication, then see what's
left for savings, giving or what's called discretionary spending. Those
things we don't get a bill for, but we still
spend money on. Maybe it's clothing or entertainment, things like that.
A very simple way would be to use the envelope method,
(35:34):
where you actually, you know, take the check that you
get cash it, and you literally fund envelopes for all
of your budget categories. Uh, and it just makes sure
that you don't overspend because when the the envelopes gone,
you're done. Or you can use a budgeting app if
you're a little more tech savvy and you'd like to
have something on your phone. That's why we built the
(35:55):
Faith fi app. You'll find it in your app store.
Faith fi it's the envelope system in a modern digital expression.
And then I would say, finally look for some help.
And I'm going to provide that to you here, because
what I'd like to do for you, if you'd be willing,
Saint is for, uh, a certified Christian financial counselor to
connect with you, to walk alongside you, uh, over about
(36:18):
a month, over maybe a several meetings over the phone,
maybe the if you have a computer, maybe through a,
a web connection. And for that person to be able
to pray with you, talk to you about your specific plan,
help you set up that spending plan, and get you
kind of pointed in the right direction. So, you know,
you have some confidence that you understand how the mechanics
(36:39):
of all this work. And we'd be happy to pay
for that. So there won't be any cost to you
just as our gift to you. But give me your
thoughts on all how that sounds.
S8 (36:48):
Absolutely. I would greatly appreciate that. Good. That sounds wonderful.
And thank you for your help.
S1 (36:55):
Well, I'd be delighted to do it. I'm so glad
you called today. You got this? No. Uh, you know,
I don't want you to be discouraged. God sees you.
He is your provider. He loves you. Uh, he is
your ultimate treasure. And, um, you can learn how to
manage money God's way. And I think this, uh, this
financial counselor will be a great start and get you
(37:15):
pointed in the right direction. So stay on the line.
We'll get your information, and we'll get a cert CFC
in touch with you. Uh, to get started. Thanks for
your call. Schaumburg, Illinois is where, uh, Alfredo is. I
think we've got you back now. Go right ahead with
your question.
S9 (37:29):
Yes. Can you hear me, Rob?
S1 (37:30):
I sure can, yep.
S9 (37:32):
Taking my call. Second time caller I love the show.
Love Moody radio.
S1 (37:36):
Awesome. Thank you.
S9 (37:38):
So my question is, uh, my my uncle. More like
a cousin brother. He's only two years older than me.
Is not doing well. Uh, going to put the property
his townhome into my name because he's probably going to
go on hospice sooner than we think. And we need
to pay taxes. Association dues overdue, uh, by probably close
(38:00):
to $10,000. And there's going to be probably another $10,000
we have to put into the property to get it
to selling point. And then any future insurance, taxes, association dues,
we may need a loan of about 25, $30,000. When
it's all said and done, the property is paid for. Um,
obviously I have to get it into my name first
(38:21):
via a quitclaim deed or something. Um, but once that's done,
I was thinking of a HELOC. Unless you have any
other suggestions that might be better.
S1 (38:29):
Yeah, it's a great question, and I realize there's a
lot going on here. So this is a challenging situation
that you've got, um, you know, in terms of, uh,
you know, how to think about handling that property if
you're trying to cover, uh, you know, 15 to 20,000
for taxes and fees and repairs, um, you know, your
(38:50):
main options once you put the property legally in your name,
and that would be necessary. And you're right, a quitclaim
deed is the easiest way to do that. Um, would be,
in fact, a home equity line of credit. So it's
only available if you already own the home and it
has equity. Uh, it's not an option until the deed
is transferred. But at that point, uh, yes, that would
(39:12):
be the way to do it. You could get a
line of credit. Um, you know, there are lines out
there right now. I know Bank of America and a
few others have lines of credit where there's no, uh,
you know, fees, meaning, you know, you might not have
to pay any kind of administrative fees or appraisal or
anything like that. You'd probably pay somewhere around Prime plus
a half a point, maybe Prime plus one. Uh, prime
(39:36):
right now is seven and a half. So you may
have an interest rate of 8 to 8 and a half.
But the good news is, if you get a variable rate,
which most helocs are, it would come down as interest
rates fall. And we expect that to happen, or at
least begin to happen before the end of the year. Um,
so I think you're on the right track there. Um,
you know, I would not spend any money on the
house until the ownership is clear, and you might want
(39:58):
to consult an estate attorney or another type of attorney
to ensure the deed transfer is done properly and legally.
But once that done is done, I think the HELOC
is the way to go.
S9 (40:10):
Now, I'm guessing that is immediate. Once the quitclaim deed
is done, then I can immediately apply.
S1 (40:16):
Uh, yeah. I mean, it needs to be filed with
the county records office, but yes, it would happen pretty quickly.
S9 (40:23):
Okay. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Robert I appreciate it.
S1 (40:27):
All right. Absolutely. Thanks for your call today. We appreciate
you being on the program. And, uh, thanks for your
kind remarks. Uh, about the program. Let's see. Uh, we're
headed to Ocala next. James. Go right ahead.
S10 (40:39):
Yes, sir. Um, my question is, uh, is this. I
found out if I retire at 62, I'll be getting 2143. Uh,
I am in good shape to work. Uh, I would
like to continue working. I'm going to be, uh, 62
in January. And I want to know if that's a
good idea, because I heard that if you're working and
you're collecting, you get into a higher tax bracket, something
(41:02):
like that. I need to just get some clarification.
S1 (41:05):
Yeah. There's a couple of things that would affect you here.
And it's a great question James. Number one, there's an
earnings limit before full retirement age. So in 2025 if
you're under full retirement age and you earn more than
2200 $320 for the year, Social Security will withhold a
dollar for every $2 you earn over that limit. That's
not a tax. It's just delayed benefits because you'll get
(41:27):
it back later in the form of higher payments. Once
you reach full retirement age. Now, it may take ten
years for them to pay back everything they withheld, but
just be aware that's going to happen. And then the
second is related to taxes. And I think this is
what you were getting at just a moment ago. And
that is that, um, you know, if your combined income,
which is half of your Social Security plus your wages
(41:49):
plus any other income exceeds certain thresholds, that's when your
Social Security is taxed. And so you need to understand,
depending on how much you're going to earn that, you know,
some of that Social Security is going to be taxed
up to as much as 85% of your benefits can
be taxable. So I'd check with the CPA on that.
(42:10):
Hopefully that helps you clear things up. Thanks for your
call today, James. Faith in finance lives of partnership between
Moody Radio and amazing team today Sarah, Omar, Lisa and Jim.
We'll see you next time. Bye bye.
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