December 10, 2022 • 49 mins
What is abundance culture? And what does pausing have to do with sustained abundance? These are some of the questions Vanessa Molano (our resident party animal + book nerd) asks us to explore in this conversation.
"I designed a spreadsheet to help you manage your bone$ and circulate that shit."
- Vanessa
Madd Question Askin' from this convo:
- What are some of the alternative ways we can do what we’re trying to do, without the harm?
- How do you manage money in a way where you measure success by the way your relationships feel?
- How do we practice reparations?
- How do we practice valuing healing as the center of financial management?
- How do we do financial management in a collective way? with foundations for inter-class solidarity.
- How do we practice “small is all”?
Highlights from this convo:
7:20 - 7:24 “what’s the point of being alive if you don’t have yourself?” VM
25:59 - 26:02 “For unschooling entrepreneurs, financial creativity is really at the heart of self-direction” ASR
30: 48 - 30:51 “authenticity is the most important thing we have” VM
31:08 - 31:17 “if you turn on the abundance lens, you’ll see that there’s a lot more support for the world that we want” - VM
Links from this convo:
- Vanessa Online
- Akilah’s Content Trunk
- Emergent Strategy by adrienne marie brown
Dig this show? Join our make-it-happen family at patreon.com/akilah to make sure we can keep this thang going strong. Thank you!
The Raising Free People Practice Card Deck
https://schoolishness.com/market/rfp-a-practice-deck/
Peek at the details of Personal Manifesto Path (will be available exclusively through our make-it-happen family on Patreon)
https://www.rfpunschool.com/p/manifesto
Our Youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/@fareofthefreechild
The Village:
https://my-reflection-matters.mn.co/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Akilah Richards (00:00):
Audio by raising free people network
Unknown (00:10):
yes, there's so much to process, right. It's like a
lifetime of being in thesesystems. And the only way to
really feel through it is tohave the chance to pause,
Crystal Menzies (00:21):
documenting the shift, and really sharing the
behind the scenes, not justtactical pieces, but the
spiritual work that I'm goingthrough. As I navigate this
space,
Chemay Morales James (00:35):
I'm feeling a strong energetic shift
in myself in my body,emotionally, spiritually. And
unschooling self directed likeall of that shit ties in. Why
are we talking about this inSDE? Why are we afraid to talk
about manifestation and like thepower of our kids to manifest to
(00:57):
us? If we understood that wewouldn't be afraid about getting
the standards and the gradesbecause we know we don't need
that to manifest our happiness.
Crystal Menzies (01:10):
You can't keep using tools of oppression and
expect to raise free people.
Fatima Mookadam (01:24):
Peace FOFC fam is now here. I wanted to give
you a few touch points for thisepisode's flow. Most of this
will be a conversation betweenAkilah and Vanessa Mallanna, aka
Bridget, our Communicationsmanager, and our bridge builder
here at RFN. When I initiallyinterviewed Vanessa for this
(01:45):
position, they immediately feltlike our people, our tribe, even
just looking at them on thescreen, I was like, wow, we have
the same eyebrows.
Unknown (01:57):
So today
Fatima Mookadam (01:59):
Akilah and I are giving Vanessa the
proverbial floor. That is to saythe mic to share their story.
You'll also hear from Chemay wholike us sings Vanessa's praises.
And together, Chemay and Vanessahave completely transformed the
membership model for myreflection matters. This new
(02:21):
model, they call it the starmodel has been such a blessing
to every single member andfuture member of that space.
You'll hear why and how in thisconversation. And we want to
know how it lands for you too.
So use the voice memo button onraising free people.com Or come
join us inside my reflectionmatters in the Fare of the Free
(02:44):
Child village to share yourfields and ask your questions.
Akilah Richards (02:57):
I'm actually going to send you the recording
because to me is cool with ittoo. And I know Fatima is as
well. So you can see how we allwent into like, I mean, it was
such a Vanessa love fest. It'slike everybody told a little bit
of the connection story and thepieces.
Vanessa Molano (03:13):
Oh, my cheeks are getting an exercise. Yeah,
yeah. No, the slowness. I mean,it's funny because sometimes you
have to listen to yourself, likeyou're saying all this stuff.
And you know it's true. But youhave to also convince yourself
that is true. And it's funny,because it's like, yeah, that's
(03:38):
a lot of what I'm trying to dowith the money work. In my head.
I actually started calling it apause fund the redistribution
work, because ultimately,healing is so much about
pausing. So it's just like,yeah, there's so much to
process, right? It's like alifetime of being in these
systems. And the only way toreally feel through it is to
(03:58):
have the chance to pause. Yeah,
Akilah Richards (04:00):
absolutely. A term that came up for me
recently was stillvitation, likeinvitation to stillness. And
then Vanessa, who you met otherVanessa, her whole energy, her
whole share is, is savoring,like savoring. Not necessarily
in a way that like when I hearsavor, I think of delicious,
like savoring the last bit ofwhatever. But it's not always
(04:23):
delicious. But that savoringenergy, of like, really slowing
into something really payingattention to the pieces,
noticing some connections,letting the sit sit in the side
of your mouth and meltinginstead of biting. These are the
things that are so present rightnow. So I love that pause fund,
(04:45):
like that idea of the pause, sothat you can notice so that you
can save her so that you cannudge and notice. Because it's
not just stillness. It's alsodifferent type of movement. Like
you move it a little bit. You'relike okay, well But I'll say
like 98 things happen when Ijust nudged it a little bit this
way. Yeah. Oh, now I gotta bewith and that's also what money
(05:08):
sometimes affords us, right?
Like, the space to pause. Let'sget into Vanessa. Before I knew
Vanessa, like what led you too?
Let's start with my work like,Where were you? And what led you
to that place? If you canrecall?
Vanessa Molano (05:25):
Yeah, well, okay, so the two things about me
is being a book nerd and a partyanimal. So that's the simplest
way of describing me. Andbecause of COVID, those booknerd
time, and there was so muchgoing on. Okay, so take it back
about what five years I thinksince emergent strategy came
out. And since I read that book,one of the questions in there
(05:47):
is, are you a fractal livingembodiment of all of your
values. And I was writing my ownbook, which I had been doing
talks about, and people said, itreminded them of emergent
strategy. So I was like, Okay,I'm gonna read that. So I always
read books of like, somethingsimilar to what I'm talking
because I always want to seewhat other people have said. And
I think that reading is the bestway to listen to someone. And so
(06:08):
once I read that, I was like,Well, my book is so similar to
emergent strategy, I should justreally try to embody it. So I
want to be a fractal livingembodiment of all of my values.
And, of course, I've been aboutyouth liberation for since
before emergent strategy cameout, because of my experience as
an after school teacher andbeing within the regular school
(06:29):
system. And I've always held avalue for playing and I've
always embodied, playing. And solike being an authority, in a
school system that was notworking for me, I'm not the kind
of person to like, quietlaughter, for the sake of
getting in line, or for the sakeof whatever program we're doing.
(06:50):
because laughter is the mostimportant thing, if anything in
the world. And just like the joyand creativity and character of
childhood, you know, of youngpeople, it's everything that
matters in the world, you know,and it's not just for young
people, it's that I see, incontrast, how adults in the
(07:12):
society have been just sowhittled down to nothing, which,
personally is boring. And what'sthe point of being alive if you
don't have yourself, right? Andso that desire to keep kids and
young people and older peoplewhole to remain whole has been,
(07:33):
of course, the drivingmotivation for collective
liberation for everything that Ido. And so of course, that's the
party animal side to right, likegetting people together to be in
our full selves together to jumpon the table. And yeah, and
that's what me and my brother,like a lot of the cultural work
that we were doing, we had likea three story warehouse. And we
(07:56):
had a lot of friends that werelike DJs, and painters and
artists of all kinds. And so wewould do all kinds of different
cultural events and sleepoversand stuff like that to like, one
of my birthdays was a decolonizemath birthday party. I think I
called it aftermath. Yeah, cuzit was really. That was so fun.
(08:18):
I got a bunch of books from thelibrary. And like, just
different. I came across thisbook called from one to zero.
It's about the development ofconcrete concepts to abstract
concepts, but it's completelymulticultural, like this, like
multicultural analysis of likehow numbers develop. So anyways,
I just like drew inspirationfrom all kinds of stuff. But
(08:38):
that's just like one example. Soit was always an experimental
place. And then through that,it's like I'm always reading.
And that's how I came acrossyour book, because I got on some
newsletter when it was
Akilah Richards (08:50):
pre Yeah.
Before it was out. Yeah. preorder status.
Vanessa Molano (08:53):
Yeah, the pre order, and I might have been
through my No, I heard about myreflection matters through you,
actually. But anyways, I mean,it's so hard sometimes to say
where books come from, becauseI'm always insert.
Akilah Richards (09:06):
Especially if you're,if you're lucky.
Vanessa Molano (09:08):
Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, Oh, I have to get on
this with my brother probablysent it to me or something. So I
was like, I have to get on thisone. And then of course, I read
it. And I took note ofeverything that was in there. I
don't think you mentioned myaffection letters in there in
the actual book.
Akilah Richards (09:24):
It certainly wasn't in this form, because it
didn't exist in that way. ButJimmy and I were already
connected, and she was doing myreflection matters work in
different ways.
Vanessa Molano (09:34):
Yeah. Okay. So yeah, I think since I was on the
newsletter, then I startedgetting those tips and stuff.
And so I was like, Yeah, I haveto join plus, I had just moved
to New Mexico. And of course, Iwanted to actually create or
join an unschooling collective.
And since I don't have kids, I'dget connected and stuff like
that. Yeah, down. It's funnybecause now we actually have one
(09:57):
it's just like three days. I'd
Akilah Richards (10:01):
love three and a half families. That's all
right. That's it. That's plenty.
Three and a half.
Fatima Mookadam (10:08):
Yeah, yeah. And
Akilah Richards (10:10):
then I remember when you you reached out to me a
while before, and I think youwere putting, maybe it was like
a workshop or a course orsomething like that together.
And that was like the firstpoint of connection. And then
later on with Bridget, when weput that call out, and then you
just like descended from theheavens or something where the
(10:32):
trees are slowly, it was justlike a little sprinkle, sprinkle
fairy dust. And then so to me,tell me about the MRM part
because I remember pieces of oneof the bridges that you were
creating, where the role of youbefore we even knew you was to
make sure that I was in moreconsistent connection with what
(10:56):
was happening in my reflectionmatters in the larger village,
not just fear of the free child,and ways that we could amplify
what was happening there. Andthe resources that were there
that a lot of the folks who cameto us it was like, but the
answers are right in here.
Because the answer is community,any question that you have, it's
about finding it in that space.
And so wanting to make that amore organic part of our flow.
(11:21):
That's what I remember. And thenI remember that you concepted,
the warm line, like really earlyon. And then I just started
getting messages from Jimmy,like, thank you so much for
telling Vanessa, about whatwe're doing. And you'd like
sending Vanessa our way becauseblah, blah. Now Vanessa is like
later, I was like when this wasmy coach, when I said my final
(11:42):
like it just was like, just likehow it was when you joined RFPs
it was just like your energy hasseeped into so many spaces and
just bought in, like clarity andconnection and all these things.
That's my perception of whathappened.
Vanessa Molano (11:59):
Oh, man, I just think of like, absorbing. I
mean, it's like a co inspiringprocess, right? I remember, when
you first told me that I wasworking there and stuff. I was
like, I was like, oh, yeah, nowwe're co conspirators. But I
think when I first I was soexcited, I just started like
reading all your stuff, and likejust absorbing everything that
(12:22):
you've created. And I thinkyeah, I really wanted for each
people at every stage in theunschooling process to feel like
they had company in it. And ofcourse, my reflection matters is
a huge part of that, becausethere's actual people there. But
I always reference your workwhenever I'm doing something
(12:42):
like Oh, as Akilah says, youknow, D schooling is like this.
So the language that youprovide, is extremely affirming,
just for all those like nuancesof transformation. But yeah, I
think for me, it's like, I justgot really excited about getting
organized, getting theinformation organized. So we can
just toss it out, like candy orsomething.
Akilah Richards (13:04):
Yes. And that's feels so good. I just updated my
content from yesterday, withsome interviews from 2020 that
someone brought back to myattention. And I was like, Man,
this idea would not have evenexisted had it not been for
Vanessa. Yeah.
Vanessa Molano (13:20):
Thank ya. So that's what I'm looking forward
to, to jumping back. Yes,believe
Akilah Richards (13:27):
me, me too. But I am honoring the shit out of
this slowdown. And it's beensuch a beautiful challenge.
Really beautiful challenge in somany ways, emotionally,
financially, lens wise, youknow, like, what, what am I
trusting? That's why I keepusing that language like, yeah,
I have these moments of Oh, myGod, what the fuck the Blue
(13:48):
Bloods? And then we've gone thisfar. And now we have, it's like,
Yeah, I hear that. And I noticedthat feeling, but I don't trust
it. What I trust is moments likethis, where it's like, or when I
messaged you, and was like, Ohmy gosh, I'm not going to be
able to bring you back on forthis month. And you're like,
okay, that's okay. And I havethese things going on in my life
(14:09):
that, so that's what I trust. Itrust those things.
Vanessa Molano (14:15):
Yeah, and I love that in your recent videos,
where you were saying like, whatare you trusting right now?
Because we're always trustingsomething. Ah, yes.
Akilah Richards (14:25):
The pause right. For the podcast for the
in betweens, yes.
Unknown (14:30):
Yeah. And I always think about that. It's you're
always trusting something. And Ithink about that a lot. Even
when driving, or even whenyou're crossing the street. It's
like you trust that the car isgonna stop, you trust that the
green light means green, andit's going to be red on the
other side. We trust things allthe time. And it's very often
(14:50):
it's a lot easier to trust thestatus quo than it is to trust
liberation. And so that trustwork about where we shift trust
and developing the skill of Ithink authenticity and trusting
that when you express yourselfor through your actions or
through your words, that there'sgoing to be some kind of equal
energy to match that, whetherit's now or later.
Akilah Richards (15:11):
Exactly, exactly, Vanessa. And the
slowing down, helps me to noticethat when I'm getting exactly
what I'm trusting into, or whenit's time for me to realize and
pivot away from what I've beentrusting, because it is so much
easier to trust the familiarityof the status quo, right, like
so much so and in noticing thatit really has been super helpful
(15:36):
for me to recognize what I amtrusting. And not just that I'm
trusting it. There's like anoverarching trust that
everything that is happening tome is for my protection, like
the protection of what I'm forthe protection of what I need
the protection of what I love,everything, everything, always.
(15:58):
So my job is to really getgooder and gooder at noticing
that. Yeah,
Vanessa Molano (16:03):
there is some kind of reminds me of some kind
of quote about, that's notexactly the right one. But it's
like, oh, when someone shows youwho they are, believe them. But
it's similar to that it's notcoming to mind. But it's like,
when something doesn't work out,or when something like your
money runs out, or some clientgets mad at you for something.
It's like, Oh, good. Thank youfor showing me who you are.
Akilah Richards (16:26):
Exactly. Yes, exactly. That feels so connected
to it. I mean, carnival asFatima and I were talking about
yesterday is a prime example ofthat. It continues to evolve
into something that I amlearning how to trust and the
pace of it, including the paceof it to trust that to say,
whatever I concepted I did thatfrom like the opening of the
(16:50):
portal and now I'm in the ship.
So what I'm not going to do istry to stay stuck at the
entrance when the other peoplethat other energies, the other
things are here now. So if Isilo if I colonize myself in
that way, and shut out all ofthe other things. That's all
Empire shit. I know how to dothat all day, every day. This is
something different. And this iswhat I trust.
Vanessa Molano (17:15):
Yeah. And like from that to I had so much space
to Yeah, it was such a blessingin disguise the time off because
I have so many friends now. It'slike too much. I'm like, I can't
even be on the computer anymore.
Akilah Richards (17:27):
Oh, my goodness. That's so great to
hear Vanessa because I know thatwas exactly what you wanted and
needed. Yeah. Speaking ofexactly what you wanted and
needed, let me take this momentto shout out the newest members
of our Make It Happen familyover on patreon.com forward
(17:51):
slash Akela Sarah Reese,whatever is Rachel and Paulina,
actually, Reese and Rachel areboth members of the my
reflection matters community. Soshout out to MRM as we do over
here, and anybody, everybody whois part of our Make It Happen
family, thank you so much, youknow, we cannot do this without
(18:15):
you. And this show has been aportal for so much more and
continues to be. So if you getanything good and useful from
these episodes, come on over topatreon.com forward slash
Akilah, drop some coins in thisriver to make sure we can
continue to expand and connectand deepen in this work we do
(18:38):
over here.
When I was talking with Jimmy,and the second interview where
Fatima interviewed us, in asense, this kind of has like two
women who put ourselves inposition to organize groups
around the things that we neededand saw were missing and just
(18:59):
our voice and struggles becamesort of the medium for
community. We have that incommon. And we were talking
about, again, you having ourVanessa love fest and saying
that one of the things thatyou've done for both of us in
very different ways, but tosimilar ends is given us the
space to really move into whatwe're about now, not necessarily
(19:24):
what people came to us fororiginally or what we started
out at. But what we're at nowwhere we're at now, the things
that we've shared and what'sleft to me was talking about the
work that you do with abundancein the space and how that's been
obviously effective for thecommunity there and the level of
work and the level of like,sustainable care that people
(19:47):
were getting, as you mentionedto me it wasn't like oh, here's
one donation it's like you sayyou you did you buy you know
like we really bought to get youto the point where are you
walking around completely thatand a die and not just like a
one time thing like that levelof community care, it's feels
like such a part of your originstory, that you bring that lens
(20:08):
and that way into differentspaces. And so thinking of
ourselves, our individual selvesas also communities, also
collectives of things, you'vebeen able to do that for our
individual community selves aswell. So can you tell us a
little bit about the work thatyou do with chimi?
Vanessa Molano (20:25):
So around 2015, yeah, it was 2015 is where I
started photon factory with mybrother, which was a cultural
space. And just like kind of anactivism hub and stuff like
that, as well as anything thatit needs to become. And through
that, that's where I learned alot about money, and how money
can be used to make dreams cometrue or whatever, which sounds
(20:47):
so techie. But really, if youuse money, well, you can really
make some beautiful thingshappen. And if you don't, you
can stress yourself out and takesome paths that are not aligned.
And through that work at photonfactory, just you know, because
we had a cultural space, but wefunded it through graphic design
stuff. So I negotiated a lot ofthings I so you're very much
(21:09):
responsible for pretty muchevery word that you say every
person that you talk to, who youassociate with, and why when you
feel scarce, or that you feellike oh, I need x number of
dollars in order to survive, orI need x number of dollars, in
order to feel okay with myself,you have to ask yourself, why.
And you have to ask yourself,Who are the people that you want
(21:30):
to be surrounded by, and whatactually feels good in life. So
through that, through thatlearning money, over seven years
of partnering with people inbusiness or freelancing, I
really got and also being aliberation theorist, it really
gave me a sense of like, howjust our relationship with
(21:50):
money, how it could be used in alaboratory way, or it could be
used in an oppressive way. Andoftentimes, we don't realize
that we're being oppressive,because we think we're just
taking care of ourselves. And sothat idea of scarcity versus
abundance, that mindset isreally what is at the heart of
(22:10):
the work that I'm doing withJimmy. I feel like I should give
a little more background to onsolidarity and like what it
means to me. And I feel like thebackground is so necessary,
because I always take stock oflike moments where I've been
really hurt by people. Andbecause of that, I think I'm
always theorizing. So whenever Iexperience something that's
(22:31):
really harmful, I think, whatare alternative ways of doing
whatever it is we were trying todo without that harm happening?
One of the mindsets that I'vecome across is this idea of
scale, like this idea of like,oh, everything has to be a mass
movement. I remember one time Iwas just going through just a
lot. And I was trying to call onsome women and FEM friends that
(22:54):
I guess didn't really know, Ineeded a lot of support at that
time. So I knew I needed a lot.
But I didn't really get what Ineeded. And a lot of what was
happening was at the Women'sMarch, like a lot of the friends
that I was trying to call onwere like too busy because they
were at the Women's March orwhatever. So yeah, I just
thought I'm like, Damn, that's aparadox. And so I was just like,
a lot of from that moment, youknow, I was just like, I really
(23:18):
want to take care of everysingle person in my life. When
someone really needs something,I want to give them an abundance
of listening space and abundanceof whatever it is that I have to
offer. And of course, being anemergent strategy, scholar and
practitioner, I guess, like,small as all is the main thing.
So in this culture of massproduction and capitalism, and
(23:40):
everything like that, we thinkof our value in terms of how
many followers we have, howmany, whatever numbers, and it's
shifting that mindset fromquantity to quality. And it's
really one of the phrases inemergent strategy is, you can
measure your success by how yourrelationships feel. And that's
what we need to be doing all thetime. So how do you manage money
(24:02):
in a way where you measure yoursuccess by how your
relationships feel, and thatincludes your relationship with
yourself. So from thoseprinciples, emerged a practice
of well, of course, Iaccidentally became an account
or I don't want to say I becamean accountant, but through my
freelancing work, because I keeppicking up skills and whatever I
(24:25):
learned accounting, and whenCOVID hit, that was the thing
that was very easy to sell, andwhat I kind of did good at to
make a living. And so because Ihave the combination of
financial skills and liberationmindset, decided to merge them
together for the abundanceculture workshops. And because
when you freelance you're alwayswriting the highs and lows of
(24:49):
money, you know,
Akilah Richards (24:52):
I do know.
Vanessa Molano (24:56):
Yeah, and like writing those highs and lows on
the lope hurts, you got to stillbelieve in what you believe in.
And that's the hard part. Andbecause I'm so familiar with
that roller coaster, I wanted tohelp people navigate that.
I was also part of this groupcalled Seattle Solidarity
(25:18):
Network, or Cecil for short. Andwhat we did was like, whenever
LIKE A BOSS ripped off someone,like wouldn't give them their
full pay or whatever especiallyhappened for like undocumented
people, we would go andbasically do these escalations
until the boss would give theperson their money. But at that
time, I didn't really click thatI was like, Oh, wait, I'm in
(25:39):
Seattle, it's like one of therichest cities in the world, we
could actually just pull moneytogether and get these people
out of these. We can liberateworkers from their buses by
actually creating businesses.
And since I had so muchexperience, like creating
businesses and stuff, and like,we got to think like the Senate
goes back to what you're sayingyour course on the unschooling
entrepreneurs guide, wherefinancial creativity is really
(26:01):
the heart of self direction. Andso I was really trying to
combine what it's like to befeminist and anti racist, and
also have a financially creativeunschooling reparations, like
everything, just bringeverything together. So I've
really wanted to put to wordslike, what does the deepest
(26:22):
solidarity mean? How do wepractice small as all? How do we
practice reparations? How do wepractice valuing healing as the
center of financial management?
And also how do we do financialmanagement in a collective way,
where we lay the foundation forinter class solidarity? And I
(26:43):
feel like solidarity is notcomplete, unless you're bringing
your money into it, especiallyfor white people. Exactly. Yeah.
So I really wanted to embody,everything goes back to
embodying all of your liberationvalues. And so yeah, I just I
really don't feel comfortablewith middle class or upper
(27:05):
middle class or anyone that'sfinancially comfortable to not
be moving that money, forhealing, for healing, especially
if you're going to be antiracist, and it's necessary.
Yeah. And
Akilah Richards (27:18):
liberation minded. Like, well, how, how
how?
Vanessa Molano (27:23):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. You can't just be
sitting on a pile of money andbe okay with yourself. So yeah,
it was about 24 people whojoined the workshops. And it was
about maybe, like, seven or sopeople who would come
consistently. And yeah, we wereactually able to move some
money, like within the villageand create, yeah, intimate
(27:45):
solidarity, which is essentiallylike, here's this one person at
the center, who is the mostvulnerable, and we're gonna
surround them with support. AndI do feel like I overcommitted
because I feel like, you know, Imean, it's interesting, because
I think a lot of times, I can'tbe when these kinds of things I
talked about, like gettingsomeone all the way to the other
(28:05):
side of, I guess, like gettingout of poverty, getting to the
other side where they'reactually comfortable. Yeah, I
tried to like push as much as Ican. And like, if I have money,
throw that money in and likeencourage other people to do the
same and like, stay consistent.
But all of these things arecultural shifts, and it can't
just happen with like one personwho really believes in it or
whatever. And so there wasdefinitely some significant
(28:26):
amounts of money that removed.
And yeah, it's interesting, too,because of interpersonal
dynamics and stuff like that.
But I think that there's a lotmore abundance than we
acknowledge. And I think thatlike really, investing in
collective liberation reallymeans that like moving your
money to where healing ishappening, and that no one owes
(28:50):
like, whoever needs time toheal. Like, they don't owe you
anything but their own healedself.
Akilah Richards (28:57):
That's right.
Yeah, like that is a part ofyour own healing to offer. And
to offer it in a way that's nottied to anything but liberation
is also for the person give meYeah, because everybody is
giving the receiver is giving afuck ton.
Vanessa Molano (29:13):
Yeah. And that idea of like, value, and the way
that transactions distort oursense of value, like in
liberation, I like to call itlike multi directional value.
It's like a child when you'relike hanging out at the park or
whatever with a few families,and there's kids running around
and stuff like that, like, allof that adds to the scene. Yeah,
(29:35):
yeah. Everyone's are like aparty. You know, everyone's joy.
Like, someone starts dancingover here. And then like,
everyone's existence is acontribution.
Akilah Richards (29:44):
That's right.
Even if they're not even payingno attention. You're a minor in
a business to stepping in thecorner. Something about that
coffee, we like shit, you know,like the pressure just showed up
in my shoulder, just observingand they not even seeing you
with it. I love that. Yeah, thatone of the terms that my friend
Terry, you know, Terry from thecrosslink group, we've been
(30:04):
talking a lot about value. Andthe first term we were using was
value exchange. And quickly itwas like my, that exchange feels
like something. And what Ilanded on was value ecology
because of all of those things.
And then what Terry landed on,which I also love, is value
vibration. Like it's feelingit's not, you're not always
(30:26):
going to be able to be like,when you gave me this, and I can
live, it's vibrational, it's hasa bazillion little pieces. It's
ecological, it's connected tothe color you put on that day
that I noticed that not just thething that you gave me or I gave
you, it's were ignoring so manyaspects of it, just like you
said, with abundance.
Vanessa Molano (30:45):
Yeah, yeah, I love that phrase of value
ecology. And I feel likeauthenticity is the most
important thing that we have.
And your full self is alwayswhat you have. And I think that,
I mean, it's so interesting, itis really a matter of noticing,
it's really a matter ofnoticing. And that doesn't mean
to be satisfied with the statusquo or with like oppression or
(31:07):
something like that. It's justlike, if you actually turn on
the abundance lens, you can lookaround and see that there's
actually a lot more support forthe world that we want, then,
yes.
Akilah Richards (31:27):
What you're about to hear now are the
details of the Star model, whichis the evolution of my
reflection matters membershipmodel. I know that Vanessa had a
lot to do with this concept inthis and then refined it in
community with Jimmy and Iimagine other members of the
team, but I really want you tohear it, especially if you are
(31:49):
in business. Because this way,this mindset, it's not
necessarily about adopting thisexact model. But the thinking
behind it, the feelings behindit, the liberation minded
approach to income and impactand sustainability is really
brilliant. And is the type ofthing when we talk about really
(32:12):
being imaginative imaginingbeyond what we're used to. This
is a powerful example of that.
So it's the star model. It's anacronym for solidarity, trust,
abundance, and redistribution.
Let me tell you.
Chemay Morales James (32:27):
So our new membership model follows this
core values really is embeddedin these four core values that
together is called Star, right?
It's very cosmic. And so thefirst one, the essence star,
(32:51):
represents the word solidarity,because the village is all about
community. And in community, wecome together in solidarity for
each other, we show up for eachother without any questions.
That to me is what solidarity isabout that we are in community
with people that we care about,who share same values, similar
(33:13):
values, want the same things inlife. And we do what we can to
support each other through thisprocess, right, we come together
in solidarity.
So that's the s and star, the Tis trust. So we believe with our
(33:33):
new model, and our old one, two,like it's not really that much
different. I always believed intrusting our people in the
village and being able to givewhat they can. So if you can't
afford to give right now orever, like, that's fine, we
trust that you're being honestabout your finances. And that's
(33:55):
means that you shouldn't getaccess to the same learning
experiences and opportunitiesthat someone who can't afford to
pay. Could so yeah, so trust isabout trusting folks can give
what they can, without anyquestions asked, I don't need
proof. You don't need to give meevidence like in other kinds of
(34:15):
spaces, we trust our people, theA's for abundance. And so the A
for abundance is a big shift forme personally, because it is
about getting out of thatmindset, that scarcity mindset,
like, oh, but what if we don'thave enough? Oh, but are people
(34:36):
going to be really honest andtrust? Are people going to be
really honest and give usenough? Are we ever going to
have enough? So we valueabundance. We believe that when
we are in solidarity with eachother and we trust our community
to give what we can that we willand when we are doing our life's
passion and work on this earth,that the Abundance flows, I
(34:59):
believe The Abundance flows inthe village because we attract,
we attract the people in thecommunity that creates that
beautiful abundant flow. So Idon't believe we'll ever be
without enough, that is a corevalue of mine, we will never be
without enough. Even if it mightlook like that to others, even
(35:21):
if it might look like that to meat times or feel like that,
especially like, we're in thestages of like really building
up Patreon. And we have a numbergoal. And so when you're not
there, sometimes it could feellike that abundance mindset,
it's very easy to kind of slipout of that. But every day I
wake up, and I'm like, I knowwe're gonna get there. Life is
(35:43):
abundant. We get what we need inthis universe, when we are doing
what we are made to do on thisplanet. I really believe that
and then redistribution.
So our model is set up, wherewe're not asking every single
member, we have over 1000, wehave almost 1100 members in the
(36:05):
village. And when asked that Ilooked at that number we said,
All right, do we really need1100 people to be paying a
membership for this communitythrive? Now a traditional
business model will say yes. Andthat's really pushed me to
really rethink that and say,Look, if we add, like 80 people
(36:28):
out of the village 81, to beexact, that we're able to give
more time out at one financiallyable people that are able to
give via Patreon, within one ofour four asking tiers, right, so
we've broken that out wherethere's a specific like, number
goal that we're looking withinour $40 tier, our $100 month
(36:50):
tier, or $500, month tier,$1,000 month tier, right. And of
course, people can customizethey're doing.
But if we can meet with 81people, our target for this
year, which would be about 12k amonth that we're bringing in
financially, we don't actuallyhave to require the rest of our
(37:13):
community members to pay, likewe will be thriving, we will
have funds to pay the bills, wewill have funds to be able to
pay myself without feeling likeI have to go get all these other
side hustle gigs. I can focusprimarily on just the villages
where I want to be Vanessa, sheand other members on our team
(37:38):
get paid. I know that I don'thave to like, ask someone might
have to like, we have to cutthings for a little bit because
we're not enough funds, right?
Like I know, we comfortably canmake sure team members are
getting paid what they need toget paid. That that money when
we talk about redistributing it,we're talking about like that
money going back into ourcommunity. So even when we make
(38:00):
over 12k, right, because we'renot saying oh, we have to stop
at two, okay, we're saying well,at minimum 12k is going to keep
us thriving, right? Anythingbeyond that means that we
redistribute that it means itgoes back into our community and
means that of that 12k We'reusing funds to pay facilitators,
leaders in the self directededucation movement, right, whom
are majority bipoc In ourcommunity, to offer courses in
(38:23):
our community. It's not just me.
Other folks in our community areoffering courses and learning
experiences for folks that don'treally want to decolonize D
school, how they think abouteducation, and being in
partnership and relationshipwith young people. So that 12k
(38:44):
allows us to make sure thosefacilitators are paid that any
other guests that we have comeinto this community that require
payment, because we have ourlive chats, and those are
usually not paid gigs,
Unknown (38:57):
that they can get paid.
Chemay Morales James (39:00):
We have mutual aid within our community.
So those funds allow us to putaside some money towards mutual
aid for members who have come tous in the past for support,
whether it's been financial,whether it's been for health
support various other things.
Anything beyond the 12k means wecould offer more than like one
(39:23):
or two courses a month, right?
It means that we could bring inmore learning, we could extend
our learning opportunities inthe village. Because we have the
funds to be able to do that. Itmeans we could use those funds
to pay towards an actualphysical event and meet up. We
can go outside of the interweband actually be in physical
community with each other. Thoseare some dreams that I have is
(39:46):
like having like an annual or biannual village gathering where
we're now we can actuallyexperience we can experience
your workshop live right ifthat's some Do you want to put
out we could have a somatichealing session live together
instead of virtually. So that'swhat we mean by redistributing a
(40:07):
very different model from atraditional capitalist business
model, which is like you justtry to squeeze out every penny
from every, quote unquote,customer or client person that's
in your space, right? And sothat you increase your profits.
For us. profit increase meansthere's more to redistribute,
(40:27):
more abundance that we get toshare back to our villagers. I'd
love to invest in some of ourvillagers, we have such a
creative community. And when Isay community, I'm including in
the young people in our COlearning deliberation,
membership, right? Like ourfamilies, we have families
there, right? Young people whohave entrepreneurial ideas, I
would love to be able to saywe've got funds to invest in
(40:53):
some project ideas from ouractual members from their
families. Just even talkingabout this just gives me
goosebumps and gets me soexcited, because like, this is
the kind of abundance I believethe village is building.
So that's the star. That's ourstar model. And I'm really
(41:20):
excited. And what's happening,what's being created really is
spirit driven, is intuitive,driven. I'm doing what I say we
should be giving the space forour kids to do. That's exactly
what we're doing. In the villagewe're practicing. The self
(41:44):
directed the intuitive ledlearning philosophy live in
action in front of everyone'sface. We're breaking down old
conventional norms and standardsand ways of thinking of just not
about education and parentingbut also how we make money, how
we share money, how we buildcommunity, and trust community
(42:06):
do all those things so.
Fatima Mookadam (42:22):
If energy reflects the power of alignment,
or connection, how do we thenmove energy through the body?
It's a form of expansivejournaling. It's getting real
and intimate. With self, closeand personal, if you will. Can
(42:46):
you face off with yourself? Canyou face your inner truth? Are
you ready to connect intimatelywith your many selves? How and
Where must your energy move,flow? Or infuse to align
(43:07):
yourself with your freedomcalling? Are you ready to boldly
step onto the path towardfreedom? Are you willing to make
the long walk to liberation? Andwhat does that look like? In the
words of Jason Silva. It isritualized surrender and ego
(43:30):
death if you will. It is thelast resistance before you
discover the alchemical gold themagic so hurl yourself into the
abyss and realize it's a featherbed.
Akilah Richards (43:50):
let me take the 4d cards out design the only
person practice definitiondoorway Okay. All right. Say
when he said StopShould I pull from the top or
(44:15):
the middle?
Fatima Mookadam (44:18):
The top
Akilah Richards (44:20):
alright.
So, purpose.
It says Our time together isfinite. So whatever the current
block between you is it worthcarrying? If it is what might
(44:42):
the costs be? And if there arecosts, decide for yourself
whether they are worth it. Askwhat is the purpose of us
together? And is this currentblock worth trying to
understand?
Purpose. And this for me feelsconnected to what we were just
(45:04):
talking about in terms of likewhat we deserve. And thinking
about the blocks in our livesand the things that this grant
could unblock in on what aresome of the costs that we are
experiencing and navigatingbeautifully as we do and messily
as we do. But thinking about thepurpose, and what things like
(45:27):
that fund can support thispurpose. What about for you what
comes up with purpose? Ifanything?
Fatima Mookadam (45:38):
To me, like, purpose has always been a big
word. And I think somewherealong the line this year, that
actually just shifted, wherepurpose is more about being
present, where you're at, versustrying to chase or achieve
something in the future. Andonce that shifted, I just felt
(46:04):
so much more embodied in termsof living on a day to day basis.
Akilah Richards (46:13):
I hear that I love the distinction that you're
making. It's such a significantone. Right? It's like something
out there that you need to becomplete, versus being really
present and being clear aboutwhat's in front of you now, who
you are now what you have now.
(46:33):
Yeah, thank you.
Fatima Mookadam (46:36):
It also echoes, I don't know if you recall,
December, previous. When I wasjust totally out of it. Yes. And
I, I wouldn't even recognizebecause I was so not connected
to self and to purpose. I didn'teven realize it. And you called
me out on that. And I was like,Well, I don't know, until I
(46:59):
really had to sit with myself.
And again, accelerated intimacy,getting close to self and really
understanding what it is. Yeah,you are.
Akilah Richards (47:12):
Yeah, I remember that. Because the
disassociation was, or is it theassociation? Or was that is
real. And if you're not incommunity, it was another form
of AI, right, another form ofaccelerated intimacy, so that
somebody can call you out and inin a way that you can use not
(47:33):
just something that feels likebashing, but something that's
like, Oh, if they're sayingthis, and I trust them, let me
look. That's like such apowerful resource to be in
healthy relationship. So thatthese sort of things can happen
because we can't do these thingsalone. Yeah. All right. I will
(47:57):
definitely leave this card outon the bed and sit with it
today. Because I'm reallythinking about the idea of is
this current block worth tryingto understand that really sticks
out for me right now? In a lotof different ways that I'm going
to let be with me throughout theday. All right. If you want to
(48:20):
work with this deck, thisraising free people deck, you
can head over to schoolishnest.com and click the market
tab and get you one.
For the show notes and relatedlinks to this episode, head to
(48:42):
raisingfreepeople.com/260.
So good, so good. As always. Ilove what's happening here. And
(49:02):
I know I know somebody's feelingit. So stay tuned. We have one
more episode this season. Justone more. You'll hear more from
Chemay, you'll hear more detailsabout the structure of My
Reflection Matters. This will bea conversation, next week's
episode with Naaz aka Fatima,myself, and Chemay and it will
(49:24):
close us out this season. Somake sure you listen to that
episode because I'll have someclues about what's happening
next season in there and thensome. So as always, thank you
for listening and chat to younext week.
Audio by raising free people network
Unknown (00:10):
yes, there's so much to process, right. It's like a
lifetime of being in thesesystems. And the only way to
really feel through it is tohave the chance to pause,
Crystal Menzies (00:21):
documenting the shift, and really sharing the
behind the scenes, not justtactical pieces, but the
spiritual work that I'm goingthrough. As I navigate this
space,
Chemay Morales James (00:35):
I'm feeling a strong energetic shift
in myself in my body,emotionally, spiritually. And
unschooling self directed likeall of that shit ties in. Why
are we talking about this inSDE? Why are we afraid to talk
about manifestation and like thepower of our kids to manifest to
(00:57):
us? If we understood that wewouldn't be afraid about getting
the standards and the gradesbecause we know we don't need
that to manifest our happiness.
Crystal Menzies (01:10):
You can't keep using tools of oppression and
expect to raise free people.
Fatima Mookadam (01:24):
Peace FOFC fam is now here. I wanted to give
you a few touch points for thisepisode's flow. Most of this
will be a conversation betweenAkilah and Vanessa Mallanna, aka
Bridget, our Communicationsmanager, and our bridge builder
here at RFN. When I initiallyinterviewed Vanessa for this
(01:45):
position, they immediately feltlike our people, our tribe, even
just looking at them on thescreen, I was like, wow, we have
the same eyebrows.
Unknown (01:57):
So today
Fatima Mookadam (01:59):
Akilah and I are giving Vanessa the
proverbial floor. That is to saythe mic to share their story.
You'll also hear from Chemay wholike us sings Vanessa's praises.
And together, Chemay and Vanessahave completely transformed the
membership model for myreflection matters. This new
(02:21):
model, they call it the starmodel has been such a blessing
to every single member andfuture member of that space.
You'll hear why and how in thisconversation. And we want to
know how it lands for you too.
So use the voice memo button onraising free people.com Or come
join us inside my reflectionmatters in the Fare of the Free
(02:44):
Child village to share yourfields and ask your questions.
Akilah Richards (02:57):
I'm actually going to send you the recording
because to me is cool with ittoo. And I know Fatima is as
well. So you can see how we allwent into like, I mean, it was
such a Vanessa love fest. It'slike everybody told a little bit
of the connection story and thepieces.
Vanessa Molano (03:13):
Oh, my cheeks are getting an exercise. Yeah,
yeah. No, the slowness. I mean,it's funny because sometimes you
have to listen to yourself, likeyou're saying all this stuff.
And you know it's true. But youhave to also convince yourself
that is true. And it's funny,because it's like, yeah, that's
(03:38):
a lot of what I'm trying to dowith the money work. In my head.
I actually started calling it apause fund the redistribution
work, because ultimately,healing is so much about
pausing. So it's just like,yeah, there's so much to
process, right? It's like alifetime of being in these
systems. And the only way toreally feel through it is to
(03:58):
have the chance to pause. Yeah,
Akilah Richards (04:00):
absolutely. A term that came up for me
recently was stillvitation, likeinvitation to stillness. And
then Vanessa, who you met otherVanessa, her whole energy, her
whole share is, is savoring,like savoring. Not necessarily
in a way that like when I hearsavor, I think of delicious,
like savoring the last bit ofwhatever. But it's not always
(04:23):
delicious. But that savoringenergy, of like, really slowing
into something really payingattention to the pieces,
noticing some connections,letting the sit sit in the side
of your mouth and meltinginstead of biting. These are the
things that are so present rightnow. So I love that pause fund,
(04:45):
like that idea of the pause, sothat you can notice so that you
can save her so that you cannudge and notice. Because it's
not just stillness. It's alsodifferent type of movement. Like
you move it a little bit. You'relike okay, well But I'll say
like 98 things happen when Ijust nudged it a little bit this
way. Yeah. Oh, now I gotta bewith and that's also what money
(05:08):
sometimes affords us, right?
Like, the space to pause. Let'sget into Vanessa. Before I knew
Vanessa, like what led you too?
Let's start with my work like,Where were you? And what led you
to that place? If you canrecall?
Vanessa Molano (05:25):
Yeah, well, okay, so the two things about me
is being a book nerd and a partyanimal. So that's the simplest
way of describing me. Andbecause of COVID, those booknerd
time, and there was so muchgoing on. Okay, so take it back
about what five years I thinksince emergent strategy came
out. And since I read that book,one of the questions in there
(05:47):
is, are you a fractal livingembodiment of all of your
values. And I was writing my ownbook, which I had been doing
talks about, and people said, itreminded them of emergent
strategy. So I was like, Okay,I'm gonna read that. So I always
read books of like, somethingsimilar to what I'm talking
because I always want to seewhat other people have said. And
I think that reading is the bestway to listen to someone. And so
(06:08):
once I read that, I was like,Well, my book is so similar to
emergent strategy, I should justreally try to embody it. So I
want to be a fractal livingembodiment of all of my values.
And, of course, I've been aboutyouth liberation for since
before emergent strategy cameout, because of my experience as
an after school teacher andbeing within the regular school
(06:29):
system. And I've always held avalue for playing and I've
always embodied, playing. And solike being an authority, in a
school system that was notworking for me, I'm not the kind
of person to like, quietlaughter, for the sake of
getting in line, or for the sakeof whatever program we're doing.
(06:50):
because laughter is the mostimportant thing, if anything in
the world. And just like the joyand creativity and character of
childhood, you know, of youngpeople, it's everything that
matters in the world, you know,and it's not just for young
people, it's that I see, incontrast, how adults in the
(07:12):
society have been just sowhittled down to nothing, which,
personally is boring. And what'sthe point of being alive if you
don't have yourself, right? Andso that desire to keep kids and
young people and older peoplewhole to remain whole has been,
(07:33):
of course, the drivingmotivation for collective
liberation for everything that Ido. And so of course, that's the
party animal side to right, likegetting people together to be in
our full selves together to jumpon the table. And yeah, and
that's what me and my brother,like a lot of the cultural work
that we were doing, we had likea three story warehouse. And we
(07:56):
had a lot of friends that werelike DJs, and painters and
artists of all kinds. And so wewould do all kinds of different
cultural events and sleepoversand stuff like that to like, one
of my birthdays was a decolonizemath birthday party. I think I
called it aftermath. Yeah, cuzit was really. That was so fun.
(08:18):
I got a bunch of books from thelibrary. And like, just
different. I came across thisbook called from one to zero.
It's about the development ofconcrete concepts to abstract
concepts, but it's completelymulticultural, like this, like
multicultural analysis of likehow numbers develop. So anyways,
I just like drew inspirationfrom all kinds of stuff. But
(08:38):
that's just like one example. Soit was always an experimental
place. And then through that,it's like I'm always reading.
And that's how I came acrossyour book, because I got on some
newsletter when it was
Akilah Richards (08:50):
pre Yeah.
Before it was out. Yeah. preorder status.
Vanessa Molano (08:53):
Yeah, the pre order, and I might have been
through my No, I heard about myreflection matters through you,
actually. But anyways, I mean,it's so hard sometimes to say
where books come from, becauseI'm always insert.
Akilah Richards (09:06):
Especially if you're,if you're lucky.
Vanessa Molano (09:08):
Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, Oh, I have to get on
this with my brother probablysent it to me or something. So I
was like, I have to get on thisone. And then of course, I read
it. And I took note ofeverything that was in there. I
don't think you mentioned myaffection letters in there in
the actual book.
Akilah Richards (09:24):
It certainly wasn't in this form, because it
didn't exist in that way. ButJimmy and I were already
connected, and she was doing myreflection matters work in
different ways.
Vanessa Molano (09:34):
Yeah. Okay. So yeah, I think since I was on the
newsletter, then I startedgetting those tips and stuff.
And so I was like, Yeah, I haveto join plus, I had just moved
to New Mexico. And of course, Iwanted to actually create or
join an unschooling collective.
And since I don't have kids, I'dget connected and stuff like
that. Yeah, down. It's funnybecause now we actually have one
(09:57):
it's just like three days. I'd
Akilah Richards (10:01):
love three and a half families. That's all
right. That's it. That's plenty.
Three and a half.
Fatima Mookadam (10:08):
Yeah, yeah. And
Akilah Richards (10:10):
then I remember when you you reached out to me a
while before, and I think youwere putting, maybe it was like
a workshop or a course orsomething like that together.
And that was like the firstpoint of connection. And then
later on with Bridget, when weput that call out, and then you
just like descended from theheavens or something where the
(10:32):
trees are slowly, it was justlike a little sprinkle, sprinkle
fairy dust. And then so to me,tell me about the MRM part
because I remember pieces of oneof the bridges that you were
creating, where the role of youbefore we even knew you was to
make sure that I was in moreconsistent connection with what
(10:56):
was happening in my reflectionmatters in the larger village,
not just fear of the free child,and ways that we could amplify
what was happening there. Andthe resources that were there
that a lot of the folks who cameto us it was like, but the
answers are right in here.
Because the answer is community,any question that you have, it's
about finding it in that space.
And so wanting to make that amore organic part of our flow.
(11:21):
That's what I remember. And thenI remember that you concepted,
the warm line, like really earlyon. And then I just started
getting messages from Jimmy,like, thank you so much for
telling Vanessa, about whatwe're doing. And you'd like
sending Vanessa our way becauseblah, blah. Now Vanessa is like
later, I was like when this wasmy coach, when I said my final
(11:42):
like it just was like, just likehow it was when you joined RFPs
it was just like your energy hasseeped into so many spaces and
just bought in, like clarity andconnection and all these things.
That's my perception of whathappened.
Vanessa Molano (11:59):
Oh, man, I just think of like, absorbing. I
mean, it's like a co inspiringprocess, right? I remember, when
you first told me that I wasworking there and stuff. I was
like, I was like, oh, yeah, nowwe're co conspirators. But I
think when I first I was soexcited, I just started like
reading all your stuff, and likejust absorbing everything that
(12:22):
you've created. And I thinkyeah, I really wanted for each
people at every stage in theunschooling process to feel like
they had company in it. And ofcourse, my reflection matters is
a huge part of that, becausethere's actual people there. But
I always reference your workwhenever I'm doing something
(12:42):
like Oh, as Akilah says, youknow, D schooling is like this.
So the language that youprovide, is extremely affirming,
just for all those like nuancesof transformation. But yeah, I
think for me, it's like, I justgot really excited about getting
organized, getting theinformation organized. So we can
just toss it out, like candy orsomething.
Akilah Richards (13:04):
Yes. And that's feels so good. I just updated my
content from yesterday, withsome interviews from 2020 that
someone brought back to myattention. And I was like, Man,
this idea would not have evenexisted had it not been for
Vanessa. Yeah.
Vanessa Molano (13:20):
Thank ya. So that's what I'm looking forward
to, to jumping back. Yes,believe
Akilah Richards (13:27):
me, me too. But I am honoring the shit out of
this slowdown. And it's beensuch a beautiful challenge.
Really beautiful challenge in somany ways, emotionally,
financially, lens wise, youknow, like, what, what am I
trusting? That's why I keepusing that language like, yeah,
I have these moments of Oh, myGod, what the fuck the Blue
(13:48):
Bloods? And then we've gone thisfar. And now we have, it's like,
Yeah, I hear that. And I noticedthat feeling, but I don't trust
it. What I trust is moments likethis, where it's like, or when I
messaged you, and was like, Ohmy gosh, I'm not going to be
able to bring you back on forthis month. And you're like,
okay, that's okay. And I havethese things going on in my life
(14:09):
that, so that's what I trust. Itrust those things.
Vanessa Molano (14:15):
Yeah, and I love that in your recent videos,
where you were saying like, whatare you trusting right now?
Because we're always trustingsomething. Ah, yes.
Akilah Richards (14:25):
The pause right. For the podcast for the
in betweens, yes.
Unknown (14:30):
Yeah. And I always think about that. It's you're
always trusting something. And Ithink about that a lot. Even
when driving, or even whenyou're crossing the street. It's
like you trust that the car isgonna stop, you trust that the
green light means green, andit's going to be red on the
other side. We trust things allthe time. And it's very often
(14:50):
it's a lot easier to trust thestatus quo than it is to trust
liberation. And so that trustwork about where we shift trust
and developing the skill of Ithink authenticity and trusting
that when you express yourselfor through your actions or
through your words, that there'sgoing to be some kind of equal
energy to match that, whetherit's now or later.
Akilah Richards (15:11):
Exactly, exactly, Vanessa. And the
slowing down, helps me to noticethat when I'm getting exactly
what I'm trusting into, or whenit's time for me to realize and
pivot away from what I've beentrusting, because it is so much
easier to trust the familiarityof the status quo, right, like
so much so and in noticing thatit really has been super helpful
(15:36):
for me to recognize what I amtrusting. And not just that I'm
trusting it. There's like anoverarching trust that
everything that is happening tome is for my protection, like
the protection of what I'm forthe protection of what I need
the protection of what I love,everything, everything, always.
(15:58):
So my job is to really getgooder and gooder at noticing
that. Yeah,
Vanessa Molano (16:03):
there is some kind of reminds me of some kind
of quote about, that's notexactly the right one. But it's
like, oh, when someone shows youwho they are, believe them. But
it's similar to that it's notcoming to mind. But it's like,
when something doesn't work out,or when something like your
money runs out, or some clientgets mad at you for something.
It's like, Oh, good. Thank youfor showing me who you are.
Akilah Richards (16:26):
Exactly. Yes, exactly. That feels so connected
to it. I mean, carnival asFatima and I were talking about
yesterday is a prime example ofthat. It continues to evolve
into something that I amlearning how to trust and the
pace of it, including the paceof it to trust that to say,
whatever I concepted I did thatfrom like the opening of the
(16:50):
portal and now I'm in the ship.
So what I'm not going to do istry to stay stuck at the
entrance when the other peoplethat other energies, the other
things are here now. So if Isilo if I colonize myself in
that way, and shut out all ofthe other things. That's all
Empire shit. I know how to dothat all day, every day. This is
something different. And this iswhat I trust.
Vanessa Molano (17:15):
Yeah. And like from that to I had so much space
to Yeah, it was such a blessingin disguise the time off because
I have so many friends now. It'slike too much. I'm like, I can't
even be on the computer anymore.
Akilah Richards (17:27):
Oh, my goodness. That's so great to
hear Vanessa because I know thatwas exactly what you wanted and
needed. Yeah. Speaking ofexactly what you wanted and
needed, let me take this momentto shout out the newest members
of our Make It Happen familyover on patreon.com forward
(17:51):
slash Akela Sarah Reese,whatever is Rachel and Paulina,
actually, Reese and Rachel areboth members of the my
reflection matters community. Soshout out to MRM as we do over
here, and anybody, everybody whois part of our Make It Happen
family, thank you so much, youknow, we cannot do this without
(18:15):
you. And this show has been aportal for so much more and
continues to be. So if you getanything good and useful from
these episodes, come on over topatreon.com forward slash
Akilah, drop some coins in thisriver to make sure we can
continue to expand and connectand deepen in this work we do
(18:38):
over here.
When I was talking with Jimmy,and the second interview where
Fatima interviewed us, in asense, this kind of has like two
women who put ourselves inposition to organize groups
around the things that we neededand saw were missing and just
(18:59):
our voice and struggles becamesort of the medium for
community. We have that incommon. And we were talking
about, again, you having ourVanessa love fest and saying
that one of the things thatyou've done for both of us in
very different ways, but tosimilar ends is given us the
space to really move into whatwe're about now, not necessarily
(19:24):
what people came to us fororiginally or what we started
out at. But what we're at nowwhere we're at now, the things
that we've shared and what'sleft to me was talking about the
work that you do with abundancein the space and how that's been
obviously effective for thecommunity there and the level of
work and the level of like,sustainable care that people
(19:47):
were getting, as you mentionedto me it wasn't like oh, here's
one donation it's like you sayyou you did you buy you know
like we really bought to get youto the point where are you
walking around completely thatand a die and not just like a
one time thing like that levelof community care, it's feels
like such a part of your originstory, that you bring that lens
(20:08):
and that way into differentspaces. And so thinking of
ourselves, our individual selvesas also communities, also
collectives of things, you'vebeen able to do that for our
individual community selves aswell. So can you tell us a
little bit about the work thatyou do with chimi?
Vanessa Molano (20:25):
So around 2015, yeah, it was 2015 is where I
started photon factory with mybrother, which was a cultural
space. And just like kind of anactivism hub and stuff like
that, as well as anything thatit needs to become. And through
that, that's where I learned alot about money, and how money
can be used to make dreams cometrue or whatever, which sounds
(20:47):
so techie. But really, if youuse money, well, you can really
make some beautiful thingshappen. And if you don't, you
can stress yourself out and takesome paths that are not aligned.
And through that work at photonfactory, just you know, because
we had a cultural space, but wefunded it through graphic design
stuff. So I negotiated a lot ofthings I so you're very much
(21:09):
responsible for pretty muchevery word that you say every
person that you talk to, who youassociate with, and why when you
feel scarce, or that you feellike oh, I need x number of
dollars in order to survive, orI need x number of dollars, in
order to feel okay with myself,you have to ask yourself, why.
And you have to ask yourself,Who are the people that you want
(21:30):
to be surrounded by, and whatactually feels good in life. So
through that, through thatlearning money, over seven years
of partnering with people inbusiness or freelancing, I
really got and also being aliberation theorist, it really
gave me a sense of like, howjust our relationship with
(21:50):
money, how it could be used in alaboratory way, or it could be
used in an oppressive way. Andoftentimes, we don't realize
that we're being oppressive,because we think we're just
taking care of ourselves. And sothat idea of scarcity versus
abundance, that mindset isreally what is at the heart of
(22:10):
the work that I'm doing withJimmy. I feel like I should give
a little more background to onsolidarity and like what it
means to me. And I feel like thebackground is so necessary,
because I always take stock oflike moments where I've been
really hurt by people. Andbecause of that, I think I'm
always theorizing. So whenever Iexperience something that's
(22:31):
really harmful, I think, whatare alternative ways of doing
whatever it is we were trying todo without that harm happening?
One of the mindsets that I'vecome across is this idea of
scale, like this idea of like,oh, everything has to be a mass
movement. I remember one time Iwas just going through just a
lot. And I was trying to call onsome women and FEM friends that
(22:54):
I guess didn't really know, Ineeded a lot of support at that
time. So I knew I needed a lot.
But I didn't really get what Ineeded. And a lot of what was
happening was at the Women'sMarch, like a lot of the friends
that I was trying to call onwere like too busy because they
were at the Women's March orwhatever. So yeah, I just
thought I'm like, Damn, that's aparadox. And so I was just like,
a lot of from that moment, youknow, I was just like, I really
(23:18):
want to take care of everysingle person in my life. When
someone really needs something,I want to give them an abundance
of listening space and abundanceof whatever it is that I have to
offer. And of course, being anemergent strategy, scholar and
practitioner, I guess, like,small as all is the main thing.
So in this culture of massproduction and capitalism, and
(23:40):
everything like that, we thinkof our value in terms of how
many followers we have, howmany, whatever numbers, and it's
shifting that mindset fromquantity to quality. And it's
really one of the phrases inemergent strategy is, you can
measure your success by how yourrelationships feel. And that's
what we need to be doing all thetime. So how do you manage money
(24:02):
in a way where you measure yoursuccess by how your
relationships feel, and thatincludes your relationship with
yourself. So from thoseprinciples, emerged a practice
of well, of course, Iaccidentally became an account
or I don't want to say I becamean accountant, but through my
freelancing work, because I keeppicking up skills and whatever I
(24:25):
learned accounting, and whenCOVID hit, that was the thing
that was very easy to sell, andwhat I kind of did good at to
make a living. And so because Ihave the combination of
financial skills and liberationmindset, decided to merge them
together for the abundanceculture workshops. And because
when you freelance you're alwayswriting the highs and lows of
(24:49):
money, you know,
Akilah Richards (24:52):
I do know.
Vanessa Molano (24:56):
Yeah, and like writing those highs and lows on
the lope hurts, you got to stillbelieve in what you believe in.
And that's the hard part. Andbecause I'm so familiar with
that roller coaster, I wanted tohelp people navigate that.
I was also part of this groupcalled Seattle Solidarity
(25:18):
Network, or Cecil for short. Andwhat we did was like, whenever
LIKE A BOSS ripped off someone,like wouldn't give them their
full pay or whatever especiallyhappened for like undocumented
people, we would go andbasically do these escalations
until the boss would give theperson their money. But at that
time, I didn't really click thatI was like, Oh, wait, I'm in
(25:39):
Seattle, it's like one of therichest cities in the world, we
could actually just pull moneytogether and get these people
out of these. We can liberateworkers from their buses by
actually creating businesses.
And since I had so muchexperience, like creating
businesses and stuff, and like,we got to think like the Senate
goes back to what you're sayingyour course on the unschooling
entrepreneurs guide, wherefinancial creativity is really
(26:01):
the heart of self direction. Andso I was really trying to
combine what it's like to befeminist and anti racist, and
also have a financially creativeunschooling reparations, like
everything, just bringeverything together. So I've
really wanted to put to wordslike, what does the deepest
(26:22):
solidarity mean? How do wepractice small as all? How do we
practice reparations? How do wepractice valuing healing as the
center of financial management?
And also how do we do financialmanagement in a collective way,
where we lay the foundation forinter class solidarity? And I
(26:43):
feel like solidarity is notcomplete, unless you're bringing
your money into it, especiallyfor white people. Exactly. Yeah.
So I really wanted to embody,everything goes back to
embodying all of your liberationvalues. And so yeah, I just I
really don't feel comfortablewith middle class or upper
(27:05):
middle class or anyone that'sfinancially comfortable to not
be moving that money, forhealing, for healing, especially
if you're going to be antiracist, and it's necessary.
Yeah. And
Akilah Richards (27:18):
liberation minded. Like, well, how, how
how?
Vanessa Molano (27:23):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. You can't just be
sitting on a pile of money andbe okay with yourself. So yeah,
it was about 24 people whojoined the workshops. And it was
about maybe, like, seven or sopeople who would come
consistently. And yeah, we wereactually able to move some
money, like within the villageand create, yeah, intimate
(27:45):
solidarity, which is essentiallylike, here's this one person at
the center, who is the mostvulnerable, and we're gonna
surround them with support. AndI do feel like I overcommitted
because I feel like, you know, Imean, it's interesting, because
I think a lot of times, I can'tbe when these kinds of things I
talked about, like gettingsomeone all the way to the other
(28:05):
side of, I guess, like gettingout of poverty, getting to the
other side where they'reactually comfortable. Yeah, I
tried to like push as much as Ican. And like, if I have money,
throw that money in and likeencourage other people to do the
same and like, stay consistent.
But all of these things arecultural shifts, and it can't
just happen with like one personwho really believes in it or
whatever. And so there wasdefinitely some significant
(28:26):
amounts of money that removed.
And yeah, it's interesting, too,because of interpersonal
dynamics and stuff like that.
But I think that there's a lotmore abundance than we
acknowledge. And I think thatlike really, investing in
collective liberation reallymeans that like moving your
money to where healing ishappening, and that no one owes
(28:50):
like, whoever needs time toheal. Like, they don't owe you
anything but their own healedself.
Akilah Richards (28:57):
That's right.
Yeah, like that is a part ofyour own healing to offer. And
to offer it in a way that's nottied to anything but liberation
is also for the person give meYeah, because everybody is
giving the receiver is giving afuck ton.
Vanessa Molano (29:13):
Yeah. And that idea of like, value, and the way
that transactions distort oursense of value, like in
liberation, I like to call itlike multi directional value.
It's like a child when you'relike hanging out at the park or
whatever with a few families,and there's kids running around
and stuff like that, like, allof that adds to the scene. Yeah,
(29:35):
yeah. Everyone's are like aparty. You know, everyone's joy.
Like, someone starts dancingover here. And then like,
everyone's existence is acontribution.
Akilah Richards (29:44):
That's right.
Even if they're not even payingno attention. You're a minor in
a business to stepping in thecorner. Something about that
coffee, we like shit, you know,like the pressure just showed up
in my shoulder, just observingand they not even seeing you
with it. I love that. Yeah, thatone of the terms that my friend
Terry, you know, Terry from thecrosslink group, we've been
(30:04):
talking a lot about value. Andthe first term we were using was
value exchange. And quickly itwas like my, that exchange feels
like something. And what Ilanded on was value ecology
because of all of those things.
And then what Terry landed on,which I also love, is value
vibration. Like it's feelingit's not, you're not always
(30:26):
going to be able to be like,when you gave me this, and I can
live, it's vibrational, it's hasa bazillion little pieces. It's
ecological, it's connected tothe color you put on that day
that I noticed that not just thething that you gave me or I gave
you, it's were ignoring so manyaspects of it, just like you
said, with abundance.
Vanessa Molano (30:45):
Yeah, yeah, I love that phrase of value
ecology. And I feel likeauthenticity is the most
important thing that we have.
And your full self is alwayswhat you have. And I think that,
I mean, it's so interesting, itis really a matter of noticing,
it's really a matter ofnoticing. And that doesn't mean
to be satisfied with the statusquo or with like oppression or
(31:07):
something like that. It's justlike, if you actually turn on
the abundance lens, you can lookaround and see that there's
actually a lot more support forthe world that we want, then,
yes.
Akilah Richards (31:27):
What you're about to hear now are the
details of the Star model, whichis the evolution of my
reflection matters membershipmodel. I know that Vanessa had a
lot to do with this concept inthis and then refined it in
community with Jimmy and Iimagine other members of the
team, but I really want you tohear it, especially if you are
(31:49):
in business. Because this way,this mindset, it's not
necessarily about adopting thisexact model. But the thinking
behind it, the feelings behindit, the liberation minded
approach to income and impactand sustainability is really
brilliant. And is the type ofthing when we talk about really
(32:12):
being imaginative imaginingbeyond what we're used to. This
is a powerful example of that.
So it's the star model. It's anacronym for solidarity, trust,
abundance, and redistribution.
Let me tell you.
Chemay Morales James (32:27):
So our new membership model follows this
core values really is embeddedin these four core values that
together is called Star, right?
It's very cosmic. And so thefirst one, the essence star,
(32:51):
represents the word solidarity,because the village is all about
community. And in community, wecome together in solidarity for
each other, we show up for eachother without any questions.
That to me is what solidarity isabout that we are in community
with people that we care about,who share same values, similar
(33:13):
values, want the same things inlife. And we do what we can to
support each other through thisprocess, right, we come together
in solidarity.
So that's the s and star, the Tis trust. So we believe with our
(33:33):
new model, and our old one, two,like it's not really that much
different. I always believed intrusting our people in the
village and being able to givewhat they can. So if you can't
afford to give right now orever, like, that's fine, we
trust that you're being honestabout your finances. And that's
(33:55):
means that you shouldn't getaccess to the same learning
experiences and opportunitiesthat someone who can't afford to
pay. Could so yeah, so trust isabout trusting folks can give
what they can, without anyquestions asked, I don't need
proof. You don't need to give meevidence like in other kinds of
(34:15):
spaces, we trust our people, theA's for abundance. And so the A
for abundance is a big shift forme personally, because it is
about getting out of thatmindset, that scarcity mindset,
like, oh, but what if we don'thave enough? Oh, but are people
(34:36):
going to be really honest andtrust? Are people going to be
really honest and give usenough? Are we ever going to
have enough? So we valueabundance. We believe that when
we are in solidarity with eachother and we trust our community
to give what we can that we willand when we are doing our life's
passion and work on this earth,that the Abundance flows, I
(34:59):
believe The Abundance flows inthe village because we attract,
we attract the people in thecommunity that creates that
beautiful abundant flow. So Idon't believe we'll ever be
without enough, that is a corevalue of mine, we will never be
without enough. Even if it mightlook like that to others, even
(35:21):
if it might look like that to meat times or feel like that,
especially like, we're in thestages of like really building
up Patreon. And we have a numbergoal. And so when you're not
there, sometimes it could feellike that abundance mindset,
it's very easy to kind of slipout of that. But every day I
wake up, and I'm like, I knowwe're gonna get there. Life is
(35:43):
abundant. We get what we need inthis universe, when we are doing
what we are made to do on thisplanet. I really believe that
and then redistribution.
So our model is set up, wherewe're not asking every single
member, we have over 1000, wehave almost 1100 members in the
(36:05):
village. And when asked that Ilooked at that number we said,
All right, do we really need1100 people to be paying a
membership for this communitythrive? Now a traditional
business model will say yes. Andthat's really pushed me to
really rethink that and say,Look, if we add, like 80 people
(36:28):
out of the village 81, to beexact, that we're able to give
more time out at one financiallyable people that are able to
give via Patreon, within one ofour four asking tiers, right, so
we've broken that out wherethere's a specific like, number
goal that we're looking withinour $40 tier, our $100 month
(36:50):
tier, or $500, month tier,$1,000 month tier, right. And of
course, people can customizethey're doing.
But if we can meet with 81people, our target for this
year, which would be about 12k amonth that we're bringing in
financially, we don't actuallyhave to require the rest of our
(37:13):
community members to pay, likewe will be thriving, we will
have funds to pay the bills, wewill have funds to be able to
pay myself without feeling likeI have to go get all these other
side hustle gigs. I can focusprimarily on just the villages
where I want to be Vanessa, sheand other members on our team
(37:38):
get paid. I know that I don'thave to like, ask someone might
have to like, we have to cutthings for a little bit because
we're not enough funds, right?
Like I know, we comfortably canmake sure team members are
getting paid what they need toget paid. That that money when
we talk about redistributing it,we're talking about like that
money going back into ourcommunity. So even when we make
(38:00):
over 12k, right, because we'renot saying oh, we have to stop
at two, okay, we're saying well,at minimum 12k is going to keep
us thriving, right? Anythingbeyond that means that we
redistribute that it means itgoes back into our community and
means that of that 12k We'reusing funds to pay facilitators,
leaders in the self directededucation movement, right, whom
are majority bipoc In ourcommunity, to offer courses in
(38:23):
our community. It's not just me.
Other folks in our community areoffering courses and learning
experiences for folks that don'treally want to decolonize D
school, how they think abouteducation, and being in
partnership and relationshipwith young people. So that 12k
(38:44):
allows us to make sure thosefacilitators are paid that any
other guests that we have comeinto this community that require
payment, because we have ourlive chats, and those are
usually not paid gigs,
Unknown (38:57):
that they can get paid.
Chemay Morales James (39:00):
We have mutual aid within our community.
So those funds allow us to putaside some money towards mutual
aid for members who have come tous in the past for support,
whether it's been financial,whether it's been for health
support various other things.
Anything beyond the 12k means wecould offer more than like one
(39:23):
or two courses a month, right?
It means that we could bring inmore learning, we could extend
our learning opportunities inthe village. Because we have the
funds to be able to do that. Itmeans we could use those funds
to pay towards an actualphysical event and meet up. We
can go outside of the interweband actually be in physical
community with each other. Thoseare some dreams that I have is
(39:46):
like having like an annual or biannual village gathering where
we're now we can actuallyexperience we can experience
your workshop live right ifthat's some Do you want to put
out we could have a somatichealing session live together
instead of virtually. So that'swhat we mean by redistributing a
(40:07):
very different model from atraditional capitalist business
model, which is like you justtry to squeeze out every penny
from every, quote unquote,customer or client person that's
in your space, right? And sothat you increase your profits.
For us. profit increase meansthere's more to redistribute,
(40:27):
more abundance that we get toshare back to our villagers. I'd
love to invest in some of ourvillagers, we have such a
creative community. And when Isay community, I'm including in
the young people in our COlearning deliberation,
membership, right? Like ourfamilies, we have families
there, right? Young people whohave entrepreneurial ideas, I
would love to be able to saywe've got funds to invest in
(40:53):
some project ideas from ouractual members from their
families. Just even talkingabout this just gives me
goosebumps and gets me soexcited, because like, this is
the kind of abundance I believethe village is building.
So that's the star. That's ourstar model. And I'm really
(41:20):
excited. And what's happening,what's being created really is
spirit driven, is intuitive,driven. I'm doing what I say we
should be giving the space forour kids to do. That's exactly
what we're doing. In the villagewe're practicing. The self
(41:44):
directed the intuitive ledlearning philosophy live in
action in front of everyone'sface. We're breaking down old
conventional norms and standardsand ways of thinking of just not
about education and parentingbut also how we make money, how
we share money, how we buildcommunity, and trust community
(42:06):
do all those things so.
Fatima Mookadam (42:22):
If energy reflects the power of alignment,
or connection, how do we thenmove energy through the body?
It's a form of expansivejournaling. It's getting real
and intimate. With self, closeand personal, if you will. Can
(42:46):
you face off with yourself? Canyou face your inner truth? Are
you ready to connect intimatelywith your many selves? How and
Where must your energy move,flow? Or infuse to align
(43:07):
yourself with your freedomcalling? Are you ready to boldly
step onto the path towardfreedom? Are you willing to make
the long walk to liberation? Andwhat does that look like? In the
words of Jason Silva. It isritualized surrender and ego
(43:30):
death if you will. It is thelast resistance before you
discover the alchemical gold themagic so hurl yourself into the
abyss and realize it's a featherbed.
Akilah Richards (43:50):
let me take the 4d cards out design the only
person practice definitiondoorway Okay. All right. Say
when he said StopShould I pull from the top or
(44:15):
the middle?
Fatima Mookadam (44:18):
The top
Akilah Richards (44:20):
alright.
So, purpose.
It says Our time together isfinite. So whatever the current
block between you is it worthcarrying? If it is what might
(44:42):
the costs be? And if there arecosts, decide for yourself
whether they are worth it. Askwhat is the purpose of us
together? And is this currentblock worth trying to
understand?
Purpose. And this for me feelsconnected to what we were just
(45:04):
talking about in terms of likewhat we deserve. And thinking
about the blocks in our livesand the things that this grant
could unblock in on what aresome of the costs that we are
experiencing and navigatingbeautifully as we do and messily
as we do. But thinking about thepurpose, and what things like
(45:27):
that fund can support thispurpose. What about for you what
comes up with purpose? Ifanything?
Fatima Mookadam (45:38):
To me, like, purpose has always been a big
word. And I think somewherealong the line this year, that
actually just shifted, wherepurpose is more about being
present, where you're at, versustrying to chase or achieve
something in the future. Andonce that shifted, I just felt
(46:04):
so much more embodied in termsof living on a day to day basis.
Akilah Richards (46:13):
I hear that I love the distinction that you're
making. It's such a significantone. Right? It's like something
out there that you need to becomplete, versus being really
present and being clear aboutwhat's in front of you now, who
you are now what you have now.
(46:33):
Yeah, thank you.
Fatima Mookadam (46:36):
It also echoes, I don't know if you recall,
December, previous. When I wasjust totally out of it. Yes. And
I, I wouldn't even recognizebecause I was so not connected
to self and to purpose. I didn'teven realize it. And you called
me out on that. And I was like,Well, I don't know, until I
(46:59):
really had to sit with myself.
And again, accelerated intimacy,getting close to self and really
understanding what it is. Yeah,you are.
Akilah Richards (47:12):
Yeah, I remember that. Because the
disassociation was, or is it theassociation? Or was that is
real. And if you're not incommunity, it was another form
of AI, right, another form ofaccelerated intimacy, so that
somebody can call you out and inin a way that you can use not
(47:33):
just something that feels likebashing, but something that's
like, Oh, if they're sayingthis, and I trust them, let me
look. That's like such apowerful resource to be in
healthy relationship. So thatthese sort of things can happen
because we can't do these thingsalone. Yeah. All right. I will
(47:57):
definitely leave this card outon the bed and sit with it
today. Because I'm reallythinking about the idea of is
this current block worth tryingto understand that really sticks
out for me right now? In a lotof different ways that I'm going
to let be with me throughout theday. All right. If you want to
(48:20):
work with this deck, thisraising free people deck, you
can head over to schoolishnest.com and click the market
tab and get you one.
For the show notes and relatedlinks to this episode, head to
(48:42):
raisingfreepeople.com/260.
So good, so good. As always. Ilove what's happening here. And
(49:02):
I know I know somebody's feelingit. So stay tuned. We have one
more episode this season. Justone more. You'll hear more from
Chemay, you'll hear more detailsabout the structure of My
Reflection Matters. This will bea conversation, next week's
episode with Naaz aka Fatima,myself, and Chemay and it will
(49:24):
close us out this season. Somake sure you listen to that
episode because I'll have someclues about what's happening
next season in there and thensome. So as always, thank you
for listening and chat to younext week.
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