July 10, 2023 • 42 mins
If you've been searching and asking about some of the most innovative minds in the realm of unschooling, youth rights, and liberation, names like Zakkiyya Chase, Moji Yai, Lane Santa Cruz, and Dr. Sundiata should ring a bell.
Some of our most listened-to early dialogues included ones with Ieishah Clelland-Lang and Lou Wilkerson. We detangled topics like Black maternal mortality rates, intuition, trust, and deschooling. Their insights set the stage for seasons two and three of Fare of the Free Child podcast, and Akilah is giving them their flowers today!
As we revisit these transformative dialogues, we dive into the heart of raising free people, where we're amplifying our stories and deepening our connections to love and liberation.
You'll also get perspectives and madd question-askin' around how to start unschooling. Questions that double as mantras is the offering here, and we truly hope you find these useful!
THE LINKS.
Moji Yai of Wise African Woman Retreats. Host of THE Birth Education Retreat where participants immerse in village healing culture.
https://www.instagram.com/wawretreat/
Tucson Ward 1 Council Member
https://www.instagram.com/lanewar
Dr. Sundiata of The Theory of Indivisibility
https://www.instagram.com/drsundiata/
Genesis Ripley of Mythology of a Dragon Newsletter
https://www.genesisripley.com/
Yolanda Coles Jones
https://bio.site/YolondaColesJones
Lou Hollis
https://linktr.ee/LouHollisTalent
https://www.instagram.com/lhtmproductions/
Miss Lou - Louise Bennett-Coverley
louisebennettheritage.com
The Unschooling Entrepreneur’s Guide to Life and Learning
The link between unschooling and entrepreneurship | Raising Free (rfpunschool.com)
Veronica Ashley-Reid
https://www.instagram.com/autonomousgrowth/
https://fofc.buzzsprout.com/344681/1193546-ep-41-demilitarizing-myself
Maleka Diggs
https://www.eclecticlearningnetwork.com/
Tia Cunnigham
Ep. 32: Kicking Cancer's Ass While Unschooling (buzzsprout.com)
Dig this show? Join our make-it-happen family at patreon.com/akilah to make sure we can keep this thang going strong. Thank you!
The Raising Free People Practice Card Deck
https://schoolishness.com/market/rfp-a-practice-deck/
Peek at the details of Personal Manifesto Path (will be available exclusively through our make-it-happen family on Patreon)
https://www.rfpunschool.com/p/manifesto
Our Youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/@fareofthefreechild
The Village:
https://my-reflectio
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Akilah S Richards (00:04):
You can't keep using tools of oppression
and expect to raise free people.
Welcome back to another episodeof Fare of the Free Child, the
podcast, where we dive deep intothe world of unschooling,
(00:25):
liberation and raising freepeople.
I'm your host, Akilah SRichards, and I'm really happy
to be going back with you doingsome Sankofa work around the
past few seasons, specificallyseasons two and three of Fare of
(00:46):
the Free Child podcast.
This is 2017, 2018, round-time.
There I really wanted to justreflect on the incredible guests
who joined us on that journey.
I will not go in as much detailas I did about Extra Special
(01:06):
Season One, but I do want toname the people, give them their
flowers, send them, throughthis space, my love and
appreciation.
We had the pleasure of chattingwith Zakkiyya Chase, the
brilliant author of No DreamDeferred.
(01:26):
Zakkiyya's insights on ourchildren's dreams and creating
an environment where they canthrive.
It really resonated with me andI feel like it set the tone for
that season, reminding us ofthe power of self-directedness
in so many forms.
We also had Moji Yai from WiseAfrican Woman Retreats.
(01:50):
Moji hosts the birth educationretreat where participants
immerse in village healingculture.
If you listen back to some ofMoji's episodes beyond and on
season two, you'll hear thatprogression when Moji was still
based in the US and now in Benin.
(02:12):
It's just as I was re-listeningto that in preparation for this
.
I just have so much gratitudefor the ways that we can
communicate where we are in ourjourney and invite people to
watch as we evolve our shit, aswe push fear to the side, as we
stop trying to figure out and domore deepening, slowing down.
(02:36):
I think Moji's story is such abeautiful reflection of that.
Oh my gosh, we also had Lane,Lane Santa Cruz second
appearance on the podcast.
Lane, you are always droppinggems.
My sis Lane went on to become aTucson, Arizona, ward 1 council
(03:00):
member.
I will make sure that theInstagram page for her council
member updates are on the shownotes and you can get the show
notes wherever you're listeningto this podcast Apple, spotify,
google, whatever, whatever.
We're also on YouTube forepisodes.
Now It's just been beautiful.
Lane is another example oflistener turned community turned
(03:25):
friend to really assist thefriend who's doing beautiful
work in Arizona that's ripplingout into the rest of the world.
Speaking of ripples and growth,do y'all remember when Dr
Sundiata was Scott Speed back inearly 2017?
Shout out to you, Sundiata.
That episode was so powerfuland really just a conversation
(03:50):
that Sanjada continues to be on.
He's still on that same thingevolved about how, the types of
transformations we go through asindividuals, how those things
shape our identities and ourapproach to liberation.
His work around the Theory ofIndivisibility is just really
thriving and his visual albumGrow Melodic is out now.
(04:13):
By the time you listen to this,make sure you visit Dr Sundiata
.
com.
I'll make sure that link isavailable so you can see what's
happening there.
Shante Smith, that episode wasbeautiful.
How are you, Shante, if you arelistening to this?
We talked about the challengesand triumphs of being a mom and
(04:36):
engaging in intergenerationalconversations across our
families.
We also talked that season withAnthony and Julia, the
co-founders of Hartwood AgileLearning Center.
Hartwood is still around,though with a very different
flavor, very different flow toit.
So many Agile Learning Centersare not just like a place where
(04:58):
people go to try to practiceunschooling, but they really are
also a reflection in all theways of what is happening when
we try to break away from thestandardized route and how
beautifully messy and complexthat can be and the type of
skills we develop along the way,the things that break along the
(05:21):
way and the experiment is goingto have that breaks hearts,
that break rules, that breakshifts in relationship.
And, yeah, it's important tonot hide that shit.
It's important to show the waysthat these ways of liberation
(05:42):
work, shift us and shape us.
It's not always beautiful, itdoesn't always feel good, but it
is always in service of healingfrom the shit that we used to
accept, and a big part of thatis forced schooling and the type
of rights that are taken awaywhen we ourselves, as human
(06:05):
beings, take on schoolishness.
We also talked with TiaCunningham.
Tia was talking about the linkbetween cancer and unschooling
for her.
That episode blessed me and Ireally want you to listen to it
(06:26):
because the types of connectionsthat people make between
unschooling and other thingsthat are happening in their
lives, it tells you, it shows us, even as a beginner, it shows
us how much unschooling is notat all about school or not
school, but really aboutrelationship, community,
(06:49):
including the community of selfyourself as a community.
You are comprised of so manythings and then you bring all of
that into spaces And so, as youare listening to seasons two
and three, you'll hear howpeople's stories deviate from
whether their kid is in schoolor not.
But really it's not a deviation, it really is an including of
(07:13):
all of the things that areimportant when we think about
our relationships with youngpeople and with learning.
And speaking of Hartwood, kenyaScott, i think that was Kenya's
second appearance on thepodcast in season two.
Kenya we met because ourchildren were at Hartwood
together Love talking to Kenya.
We also have these reallynuanced conversations about
(07:36):
mother work in ways that Ireally just really cherish.
We also had the pleasure ofspeaking and listening and just
vibing with Kaylan Reid Shipanga, who runs the brand African
American in Africa.
She shares her experiences andinsights, as- I wanna read
exactly what she says- a rapidlygrowing collective founded on
(07:59):
the need to amplify theperspectives of travelers and
expats of color across theAfrican continent.
Yes, Kailen is in Namibia, atleast that's where she was when
we connected.
Also that year, Chemay MoralesJames of My Reflection Matters,
(08:22):
made her first visit.
appearance Another example oflistener, turned community
member, turned sister friend.
We talked about the power ofconnection and community, as we
do, and if you're not followingChemay's work over at My
Reflection Matters, youabsolutely should be, because if
you're listening to thispodcast, you will make the
(08:43):
connections and really that's abeautiful place for any stage in
your journey towards raisingfree people.
My Reflection Matters hascommunity and resources around
that journey, so you should bethere to at least check it out
and see if it's a good fit foryour needs.
Veronica Ashley Reed, my sis inlove, another incredible guest.
(09:06):
We talked about adultunschoolers and how she, at the
time, was not a mom.
She is now a mom of twodaughters.
At the time she was not aparent.
Oh, my gosh, wow.
And we talked about her journeyfrom being in the military to
(09:27):
really demilitarizing theschooling herself.
And so many people were able torelate to that conversation
about Veronica and that journeyto reclaiming herself.
So thank you so much, veronica,for being willing to share that
and shout out to Josiah andZora, veronica and Jared's
(09:49):
children.
We also vibe with Genesis Ripley, my Kim folk.
We talked about mask freerelationships.
We talked about reclaiming ourvastness.
Genesis Ripleycom, you must golook and feel.
That's another one of myfriends who really understands
(10:10):
portal work.
We speak the language ofportals.
Their newsletter is calledMythology of a Dragon, which is
also a book they wrote, and Ijust I'm so grateful that we've
become intertwined in thesedelicious ways and that we get
to raise free people togetherand in community.
And when we sit and talk, it isalways just soul food for real.
(10:34):
Yolanda Cole Jones talk aboutsoul food brought so much energy
and wisdom to the podcast.
I will make sure thatparticular intersection of
liberation and parenting thatYolanda occupies is accessible
to you through this microphonethat I got right here, because I
(10:56):
will make sure the links are onthe show notes page.
She's a singer, a mama, a guide, a community resource and just
beautiful inside and out in waysthat we were privy to back then
in 2017 and continue to bask in.
Veronica joined us again as wewent deeper into
(11:17):
demilitarization.
Because that first one wereally were talking more about
being an adult unschooler, whatthat meant if you didn't have
children, and then the secondone was even more specific to
her journey away from themilitary and what growth and
self-discovery meant for her.
I encourage you to go back toboth of those and then you can
(11:38):
get the links to where Veronicais now in her world and work and
see how it has evolved.
Sonia LeBlanc came throughtalking about her own community
self-directed education space asshe started a school and just
really talking about her passionfor creating these types of
learning environments and beingin community around it.
(12:00):
Shout out to Sonia, you areamazing.
Also, in season two, marleyjoined us.
She was just 13 years old, ibelieve at the time.
She was talking about herself-designed curriculum and
really just reminding us thateducation can take many forms
and that our children can shapetheir experiences, and that
(12:22):
unschooling is not the absenceof structure at all.
It is a more inclusive,involved type of structure and
shape taking that we are able tobe part of and not force.
In July of 2017, malika Diggsjoined us for the first time,
(12:47):
again with the blessing that Ihave of people that I meet
through this podcast, who becomefamily I could say that so
effortlessly that become KimFolk, people that I talk to on a
regular basis and rely on forcertain aspects of my own growth
(13:10):
and accountability.
Malika is so that And in 2017is when she first joined us to
talk about her perspective onmother work, without the
unnecessary borders and silosand labels, and just breathing
fresh air into this movement ofraising free people.
Shout out to Malika.
I also, throughout the season,had the opportunity to record
(13:33):
some solo episodes.
We talked about discipline, italked about travel and the
transition from homeschooling tounschooling.
Those episodes really allowedme to reflect on my own
experiences and share some ofthe things that really resonated
with so many of you, and I'm sograteful for that because, you
(13:53):
know, we be feeling like allkind of feelings in this life
when we venture away from themaze that they set us up in, and
so I love just being able toshare my life with you in these
ways that I choose and yousharing yours with me.
I remember also that yearthat's the year that I spoke at
Arrow conference and I talkedabout resistance and Patua and I
(14:16):
shared with some folks there myshero, dr Louise Bennett cover
Lee, known more so as Miss Lou,and she's just an orator and a
teacher, professor and a loverof Jamaican culture and language
and a liberator of JamaicanPatua, taking it out of the
(14:38):
shadows of something that youdon't say because the queen
wouldn't sanction it over tosomething to celebrate and be
proud of and to reallyunderstand.
And there's so many parallelsfor me with Patua and raising
free people, and so I've shareda lot about Miss Lou, even in
our make it happen family.
(14:58):
I've done some readings thereand really encourage you to
check out her work, as I didback in season two, back in a
day in 2017.
And last but certainly not least, we closed out season two with
another conversation with DrSinjata and me.
We talked about the importanceof standing in our troops, like
what that meant.
(15:19):
I just love being able to seehow that has evolved our lives
mine and Sinjata's in beautifulways, and we remain in touch.
As a starter point, season two,along with season one, would be
(15:43):
really helpful for people whoidentify as beginners on the
path, because we really not onlytouched on some of the fears
that we had as we were movinginto unschooling, but really a
lot of the wisdom that it wasalready bringing in and some of
the connections that we just hadmade before Season three
(16:12):
episodes 51 to 100.
Much like season two, therewere so many conversations that
allowed for expanding of thisthing from just a focus on
(16:33):
school or not school into whateventually I started calling
raising free people andrealizing that included raising
ourselves, raising our, ourvibration across relationships,
across generations, across allrelationships, including
generations after us.
So, kendall and summer, shoutout to y'all.
(16:54):
It was so beautiful to be ableto push back against the idea of
what a family is supposed tolook like and supposed to
experience.
Kendall and summer are a blackand queer married couple And in
that episode 51, the beginningof season three, we talked about
self love, cultural awarenessand they were raising both a
(17:16):
conventional school or and anunschooler at the same time.
So it was really interestingand I really recommend that
episode for just being able tolisten to someone's story and
push back against ideas that youhave about what something is
supposed to look like.
Shout out to Kendall and summer.
Thank you so much for thatepisode.
(17:37):
I did some solo episodes theretalking about like a vision for
a self directed world.
I talked about managing anxietyand push back parenting.
Push back in SDE spaces.
We had Zara Alabanza andAtlanta activists and dope human
joined us.
Aisha Cleveland Lang on selfmothering.
(17:59):
Aisha has joined us many timesover Kim Hester.
We had Trudy Lebron.
We had Lou Wilkerson Shout outto Lou, who went on to host
grief, growth and goals podcaston our network and is doing
amazing work right now with theDreamers Academy and Lou Hollis
(18:19):
talent management.
The links will be there.
Kelly Palmer formerly KellyCarboni Woods.
We had Doritzia Rivera, asiaRutledge, who also went on to
host.
She said we shed podcast.
Monique Allison on survivingsurvival mode.
(18:42):
Sister friend in the homie,najai Knox, who talked about de
schooling and founded deschooling DC.
Oh my goodness, theconversations.
Etl McVay joined us and I thinkthat was ETL's maybe second
time on the podcast.
Moji was in full swing with herpodcast.
(19:03):
We talked about black maternalmortality rates, intuition and
trust just connective, rooted,expansive, all at the same time.
Conversations happened and Ijust really love being able to
reflect on that and encourageyou, even if you listen to them
(19:25):
when they first came out.
Feel through some of these backin seasons one, two and three.
From where you are now.
You know when you read a bookthat just really changed your
life.
You read it at different timesin your life.
We could do the same thing withthe vibration of sound through
people's stories on podcasts.
So I encourage you to do thatand share with somebody else
(19:47):
what it does for you to reallygo back, as you now, to this
thing that moved you all the wayback then.
Thank you.
(20:27):
That was 2016, when a lot of theways that we were viewing
education was still fresh in ourminds the old ways that we
viewed education, the purpose ofit, the purpose of our children
, our roles as parents.
(20:48):
That was really just four yearsinto our unschooling journey,
what eventually became ourunschooling journey, and really
just a couple years into ourmoving away from just doing
school at home like that type ofhomeschooling.
So the first season of thepodcast is really good because
(21:10):
who I reached out to, how Iunderstood things feel like
those would be really useful andI know they've been useful
because I've been told that bydifferent people who have
listened to that first season.
The other thing is that I havea course and you literally will
have to message me some kind ofway you can email me.
(21:33):
I'm on Instagram.
You can always hit the voicememo app on raisingfreepeoplecom
If you ask me to open up thecourse that I created around
that time, which was called theunschooling entrepreneurs guide
to life in learning long namebecause I was like deeply into
(21:53):
the hitchhiker's guide to thegalaxy, as I still am, and I
wanted to create something thatfelt like a guide to this new
fucking planet of unschooling.
So if you are interested in that, i will give you access to it.
I cringe a little bit because,because I'm not there anymore,
(22:18):
you know a lot of the thingsthat I talked about then.
I don't even see it like thatanymore.
I don't even care about some ofthe shit I was focused on back
then My trust, work around, howlearning happens, and the role
of relationships and partnership, particularly with people I
(22:38):
love, like my children.
Those things have shifted somuch that if I were to do the
course again which I would liketo I would take such a different
approach.
I would be talking to you moreabout how you fucking feel and
how your children feel, and notso much what they're doing, not
(22:59):
because the doing isn't animportant part of the times when
we do need to progress and whengrowth is ripe and appropriate,
as opposed to forced.
We do need growth at some times, but back then I was so focused
(23:21):
on how to see it, how to noticeit, how to facilitate it,
whereas now, even talking with abeginner, i wouldn't focus on
that.
I would talk more aboutemotional needs and what you're
noticing.
I would offer education onthings like interoception and I
(23:45):
would talk about hearing moreabout what struggles your
children are having like intheir words, in their language.
Not so much what you've noticed, because so much of that helps
us to understand why we push andwhy our children resist and how
(24:07):
resistance can really be aroadmap and a relief from the
pressure to figure out how tofix or help our children or
ourselves or anybody else in ourlives.
I would be talking from muchmore a space of connectedness.
I wouldn't try to meet youwhere you were, because one of
(24:32):
the things that I know now abouthow I serve and how I support
is that I'm not really that'snot my ministry to meet people
where they are.
It's not that there's anythingwrong with that.
There are so many people in mylife like Malika Diggs of
Eclectic Learning Network, soskilled at meeting people where
(24:53):
they are in ways that cansupport them to another space.
But my alchemy, how I'm set up,is that I support you when
parts of you trust somethingdifferent than how you're
showing up.
Parts of you are in tune with adeeper truth than the surface,
(25:16):
truth that you keep on trusting.
What I'm for is to invite andinvoke that part of people.
That's what I do, and now thatI trust that way about myself so
much more because I've been inin community with people, like
some of you listening, whohelped me to trust that and who
(25:39):
show me how to not try toperform some other way than how
I work best.
That's where I would speak from.
So that's where I'm talking toyou from now.
If you're just getting startedand you might be dealing with
oftentimes regret, oftentimes asense that it's too late for you
(26:02):
to be at a more partnershipcentric level with a child in
your life, whether you're aparent or a different type of
caregiver, an educator, aneducator who's not a parent,
because all parents areeducators but not all educators
are parents.
If I'm talking to you from thatspace, i would say the guilt,
(26:24):
the sense of fear that it's toolate, the idea that you just
don't know what exactly to donow if you are gonna trust the
kid more, or what I hear a lotis my kid can't unschool because
they need structure.
That's a common myth.
(26:45):
So those are the type of spacesthat I'm wanting to bring some
offerings to.
The first thing is, i talkedlast week about how I had to
learn and Chris, my partner, hadto learn how not to fill this
(27:05):
perceived void once we stoppedsending them to school or if we
stopped using a specificcurriculum.
If so, if we were lessstructured, what would we do
instead?
I would say to a beginner thatthe question is not what do we
(27:28):
do instead, the question is oh,what's making me feel like if
we're not doing that, then weneed to be doing something else.
Why do I feel that way?
where's the proof of that?
what is it that I think wouldhappen if I just offered some
(27:50):
de-schooling time, meaning thatwe didn't have a particular
curriculum, they were doingnothing.
I wasn't making them doanything.
I wasn't trying to sign them upfor a particular thing just yet
.
I know that I want to get thereat some point, because I know
they need stimuli outside of thehouse, or I know I do not want
(28:13):
them and me to be together allday long.
That's stressful for me in waysthat I'm not.
I'm not feeling that right now.
So, even if my goal isultimately to do something else,
what might happen if I didn'trush to that something else?
So that's a question I mightsay if I don't give them
(28:38):
something to do, then that'smore pressure on me, because
they're gonna be being like mom,dad or whoever.
Can we do this?
What about this?
Watch me do this.
Wanna do this with me.
If you have a younger one, itmight be hard if you have a
seven, eight, nine year old,because sometimes they're still
(29:01):
dependent on that adult, theirprimary adult, to facilitate, to
entertain them, essentiallygive them something to do.
The thing about that is thatyou are the environment.
You are essentially thegovernment.
You are a child's government astheir adult, You are the
governing adult.
(29:21):
So that environment if youdon't want to be the primary
person that's doing the thingsfor them, then you and they both
have to develop the skills ofthat change.
What does it look like?
I remember when I was doingthat with our girls, we dealt
with it through proximity I'mgonna go in this room over here
(29:44):
and then you're gonna be in thisroom here, and so when this
timer goes off is when you cancome into the room that I'm in.
So what do you need to be inthis room for this time?
Like really just tryingdifferent practical things to
separate yourselves from eachother, to not assume that you
(30:05):
have to be the manager of theirschedule and life, even when
you're still like bathing themor helping them to do basic care
things.
There is a point where it isappropriate and necessary for a
young person, a young human, torely on.
(30:28):
Take from extract from thefirst the mother, and then
whoever the main adult is.
That's normal, natural, healthy.
That doesn't necessarily changeautomatically.
We don't just grow or age outof that.
There are things we can do tofacilitate that when we have a
(30:50):
younger one, and that's what weneed to be thinking about,
reading about asking thatquestion on the Facebook groups
or wherever it is that weconnect with other people, our
in-person events, gatheringsThese are the type of questions
we need to be asking.
If someone has a child that,like my youngest, was just super
I don't know if the term isself-regulated she just didn't
(31:11):
need to be around, nobody to donothing.
However, you word thatclinically she was that, and
whereas our oldest, miley, wasnot like that, and so we didn't
learn until later that a childcould even be that autonomous
and just do their thing gathertheir different toys, come get
you when they need something.
That's a thing that we, if weknew that was possible, we would
(31:37):
have been facilitating that,but when we knew it was possible
, then we were able tofacilitate it and nurture it in
both of them in different ways,and so that's something you can
really be just paying attentionto.
How to do that if that's notthe environment that you're
already in.
Sometimes we need to do thateven when a child is older.
That also helps us to begin torecognize ourselves.
(32:00):
Let me speak for myself, andalso no, i'm not just speaking
for myself, actually Becausethis is also very much informed
by the conversations that I havewith different people because I
am in this sort of unique, inmany ways, a position of
studying, unschooling, life andculture, because we live it and
(32:24):
we're invited into differentforms of it all the time in
different parts of the world myfamily and me And so I'm not
just speaking for myself.
I'm also wanting to make sureyou are aware that other people,
not just me, are experiencingthis thing.
You could have, for example, a12-year-old or 13-year-old
(32:47):
that's still really dependent ontheir primary adult for what to
do, how to engage their timewhen they're not in school.
That can happen, and so I don'twant you to think that, if
you're having this experiencewith a preteen or a teen, that
it's too late for you to startdeveloping those skills or
(33:08):
practicing those skills.
It's not.
Another thing that I would sayfor a beginner is to really try
to separate yourself, which isreally tied to what I was just
talking about as well separateyour role of teacher, because if
(33:29):
you're a parent, you'reautomatically a teacher, you're
an educator, and if you choseeducation not because you have
children but because you wannabe in that world, there's a way
that we as adults can blend ourteacher or guide self with the
(33:53):
rest of ourselves in a way thatmakes it hard for us to see that
young person as just a person.
We tie all types ofexpectations around our role as
teacher or guide or facilitatoror parent.
We latch that on to that youngperson And so, because of that,
(34:14):
they're too close to our shit.
Like we need some distance sowe can see them as a whole human
.
We can see them as having theright to discover some things
that somebody isn't trying toforce them to see.
We can see them as imperfect,and necessarily imperfect, so
(34:34):
that they can make certainmistakes that they need to make
in order to evolve, so that wecan see ourselves as also humans
who are imperfect and that whatwe are seeing for them, what we
want for them, might notactually be what's best for them
(34:57):
.
Even if we're coming from agreat place, can we honor the
right that comes with them notbeing, not being just for you.
Their life isn't just aboutwhat you understand for them or
how you understand them to be orwhat you think they need.
(35:19):
There is some other type oftrust work to be done around
distancing yourself as theiradult, their governing adult,
distancing yourself from theexpectations you have for their
life and how they are going toget certain skills that you
(35:42):
think that they will need.
For example, if you arethinking that your version of
unschooling should look like noschool, no curriculum, but you
don't know where to start.
So you are going to say to themalright, i am not going to give
(36:03):
you a specific curriculum, butI want you to pay some attention
to these couple of books.
Or I want you to watch thisparticular thing.
I remember we did some of thatbecause we just needed
scaffolding.
We were not able to jump fromgiving them things to do to not
giving them anything to do atall.
We would assign things, but ifthey didn't do the assigned
(36:26):
thing, instead of trying tofigure out how to make them do
it, we would make the lessonreally be about okay, how do we
handle that?
they didn't do it?
What type of feelings is itbringing up for me?
What type of feelings is itbringing up for Chris?
Where do I feel disrespected?
(36:46):
Whatever it is that I feel,what am I doing with that
feeling?
How did I express it?
What else is it bringing up forme?
to really use these experiencesas an opportunity to
investigate all the shit behindit, all the behind the scenes,
not whether they did the thingor didn't do the thing, but all
(37:08):
of the other things behind itthe emotions, the reactions, the
tendency.
What happens if you didn'tfollow what you tended to do
this time?
What if you didn't make it abig deal that they didn't do the
thing?
How did they react to that?
What did they say to you aboutwhether they were surprised that
your reaction or not?
(37:29):
How do you feel about the factthat they expected you to behave
a certain way and you didn't?
What else is that related tomad question asking and asking
different questions than theones that you would default to
if you were just thinking aboutthem as a student and you were
just thinking about yourself asthe guy, the teacher, the
(37:51):
facilitator, the parent, and alot of what we discussed in
Season 1 speaks to that, a lotof what is in the blog post on
selfdirectedorg the Alliance forSelf-Directed Education that
site.
If you read a lot of the blogsthere, you'll see how people
(38:17):
shifted over from the questionsabout education and over into
the questions about relationshipand the drivers.
What's actually driving ourfocal points here?
Who is in my head when I try tomake my kid do something, or
when I react this way tosomething my kid doesn't do?
(38:40):
Who's in my head?
Who am I performing for when Imake my kid perform?
What is my kid reacting to?
Are they reacting to the thingthat I'm asking or is there
something else that they'rereacting to?
Is there a pattern here thatthey are responding to?
When I think about theopportunities that I want a
(39:02):
child to have, am I alsofactoring in the emotional, a
mental wellness, or am I onlythinking about education?
Where is education actuallygetting in the way of the
emotional, the mental wellnessthat I also want for a child and
(39:22):
for myself?
Who's performing here and forwhom?
These things And questions canalso be mantras, any one of
those things that resonated foryou in what I was bringing up,
what I was asking.
You might write it down and putit somewhere where you see it
(39:45):
often, so that you can use thequestions to guide your actions
or to make sense of your actionsin a moment.
I would also say that one ofthe easiest things that you can
(40:06):
begin to do as a beginner intothis non-school-centric way,
even if your kid is in school,one of the easiest allegedly
perhaps easiest things to do isto just listen more.
Listen more to that child,listen more to your inner voice,
(40:30):
listen out more for your innercritic.
Make your inner critic morevisible by writing down things
or sharing in a group thatyou're in where there's some
trust, sharing what your innercritic said when you chose a
different route, even if itdidn't have anything to do with
a kid Becoming a better listener, because part of what these
(40:57):
systems do, thesenon-human-centric systems like
the school system, part of whatthey do is they get louder than
what we actually need to belistening to.
We can't hear because we are sofocused on doing, producing,
(41:17):
performing, grinding that we'renot listening.
We're tired.
We're too tired to listen.
We're too worn out to listen.
We don't have enough of ourbasic needs met to try to be
listening to somebody, somesofter inner voice, when we try
to figure shit out.
(41:38):
But if you can manage to decideand commit to just listening
more than you talk in, listeningmore than you're explaining,
listening more than you try tofigure out.
That alone is going to guideyou further into this practice
(41:58):
of raising free people.
That alone.
So this is it.
This was a long episode.
I'm going to really play withhow I recap the rest of the
(42:19):
episodes, but, as always, i feelyour presence and energy when I
record these things.
I want you to know that I feelit.
So, as usual, thank you forbeing here and chat to you next
week when we continue.
We'll recap the next couple ofseasons and see what else we get
(42:40):
into.
Much love.
You can't keep using tools of oppression
and expect to raise free people.
Welcome back to another episodeof Fare of the Free Child, the
podcast, where we dive deep intothe world of unschooling,
(00:25):
liberation and raising freepeople.
I'm your host, Akilah SRichards, and I'm really happy
to be going back with you doingsome Sankofa work around the
past few seasons, specificallyseasons two and three of Fare of
(00:46):
the Free Child podcast.
This is 2017, 2018, round-time.
There I really wanted to justreflect on the incredible guests
who joined us on that journey.
I will not go in as much detailas I did about Extra Special
(01:06):
Season One, but I do want toname the people, give them their
flowers, send them, throughthis space, my love and
appreciation.
We had the pleasure of chattingwith Zakkiyya Chase, the
brilliant author of No DreamDeferred.
(01:26):
Zakkiyya's insights on ourchildren's dreams and creating
an environment where they canthrive.
It really resonated with me andI feel like it set the tone for
that season, reminding us ofthe power of self-directedness
in so many forms.
We also had Moji Yai from WiseAfrican Woman Retreats.
(01:50):
Moji hosts the birth educationretreat where participants
immerse in village healingculture.
If you listen back to some ofMoji's episodes beyond and on
season two, you'll hear thatprogression when Moji was still
based in the US and now in Benin.
(02:12):
It's just as I was re-listeningto that in preparation for this
.
I just have so much gratitudefor the ways that we can
communicate where we are in ourjourney and invite people to
watch as we evolve our shit, aswe push fear to the side, as we
stop trying to figure out and domore deepening, slowing down.
(02:36):
I think Moji's story is such abeautiful reflection of that.
Oh my gosh, we also had Lane,Lane Santa Cruz second
appearance on the podcast.
Lane, you are always droppinggems.
My sis Lane went on to become aTucson, Arizona, ward 1 council
(03:00):
member.
I will make sure that theInstagram page for her council
member updates are on the shownotes and you can get the show
notes wherever you're listeningto this podcast Apple, spotify,
google, whatever, whatever.
We're also on YouTube forepisodes.
Now It's just been beautiful.
Lane is another example oflistener turned community turned
(03:25):
friend to really assist thefriend who's doing beautiful
work in Arizona that's ripplingout into the rest of the world.
Speaking of ripples and growth,do y'all remember when Dr
Sundiata was Scott Speed back inearly 2017?
Shout out to you, Sundiata.
That episode was so powerfuland really just a conversation
(03:50):
that Sanjada continues to be on.
He's still on that same thingevolved about how, the types of
transformations we go through asindividuals, how those things
shape our identities and ourapproach to liberation.
His work around the Theory ofIndivisibility is just really
thriving and his visual albumGrow Melodic is out now.
(04:13):
By the time you listen to this,make sure you visit Dr Sundiata
.
com.
I'll make sure that link isavailable so you can see what's
happening there.
Shante Smith, that episode wasbeautiful.
How are you, Shante, if you arelistening to this?
We talked about the challengesand triumphs of being a mom and
(04:36):
engaging in intergenerationalconversations across our
families.
We also talked that season withAnthony and Julia, the
co-founders of Hartwood AgileLearning Center.
Hartwood is still around,though with a very different
flavor, very different flow toit.
So many Agile Learning Centersare not just like a place where
(04:58):
people go to try to practiceunschooling, but they really are
also a reflection in all theways of what is happening when
we try to break away from thestandardized route and how
beautifully messy and complexthat can be and the type of
skills we develop along the way,the things that break along the
(05:21):
way and the experiment is goingto have that breaks hearts,
that break rules, that breakshifts in relationship.
And, yeah, it's important tonot hide that shit.
It's important to show the waysthat these ways of liberation
(05:42):
work, shift us and shape us.
It's not always beautiful, itdoesn't always feel good, but it
is always in service of healingfrom the shit that we used to
accept, and a big part of thatis forced schooling and the type
of rights that are taken awaywhen we ourselves, as human
(06:05):
beings, take on schoolishness.
We also talked with TiaCunningham.
Tia was talking about the linkbetween cancer and unschooling
for her.
That episode blessed me and Ireally want you to listen to it
(06:26):
because the types of connectionsthat people make between
unschooling and other thingsthat are happening in their
lives, it tells you, it shows us, even as a beginner, it shows
us how much unschooling is notat all about school or not
school, but really aboutrelationship, community,
(06:49):
including the community of selfyourself as a community.
You are comprised of so manythings and then you bring all of
that into spaces And so, as youare listening to seasons two
and three, you'll hear howpeople's stories deviate from
whether their kid is in schoolor not.
But really it's not a deviation, it really is an including of
(07:13):
all of the things that areimportant when we think about
our relationships with youngpeople and with learning.
And speaking of Hartwood, kenyaScott, i think that was Kenya's
second appearance on thepodcast in season two.
Kenya we met because ourchildren were at Hartwood
together Love talking to Kenya.
We also have these reallynuanced conversations about
(07:36):
mother work in ways that Ireally just really cherish.
We also had the pleasure ofspeaking and listening and just
vibing with Kaylan Reid Shipanga, who runs the brand African
American in Africa.
She shares her experiences andinsights, as- I wanna read
exactly what she says- a rapidlygrowing collective founded on
(07:59):
the need to amplify theperspectives of travelers and
expats of color across theAfrican continent.
Yes, Kailen is in Namibia, atleast that's where she was when
we connected.
Also that year, Chemay MoralesJames of My Reflection Matters,
(08:22):
made her first visit.
appearance Another example oflistener, turned community
member, turned sister friend.
We talked about the power ofconnection and community, as we
do, and if you're not followingChemay's work over at My
Reflection Matters, youabsolutely should be, because if
you're listening to thispodcast, you will make the
(08:43):
connections and really that's abeautiful place for any stage in
your journey towards raisingfree people.
My Reflection Matters hascommunity and resources around
that journey, so you should bethere to at least check it out
and see if it's a good fit foryour needs.
Veronica Ashley Reed, my sis inlove, another incredible guest.
(09:06):
We talked about adultunschoolers and how she, at the
time, was not a mom.
She is now a mom of twodaughters.
At the time she was not aparent.
Oh, my gosh, wow.
And we talked about her journeyfrom being in the military to
(09:27):
really demilitarizing theschooling herself.
And so many people were able torelate to that conversation
about Veronica and that journeyto reclaiming herself.
So thank you so much, veronica,for being willing to share that
and shout out to Josiah andZora, veronica and Jared's
(09:49):
children.
We also vibe with Genesis Ripley, my Kim folk.
We talked about mask freerelationships.
We talked about reclaiming ourvastness.
Genesis Ripleycom, you must golook and feel.
That's another one of myfriends who really understands
(10:10):
portal work.
We speak the language ofportals.
Their newsletter is calledMythology of a Dragon, which is
also a book they wrote, and Ijust I'm so grateful that we've
become intertwined in thesedelicious ways and that we get
to raise free people togetherand in community.
And when we sit and talk, it isalways just soul food for real.
(10:34):
Yolanda Cole Jones talk aboutsoul food brought so much energy
and wisdom to the podcast.
I will make sure thatparticular intersection of
liberation and parenting thatYolanda occupies is accessible
to you through this microphonethat I got right here, because I
(10:56):
will make sure the links are onthe show notes page.
She's a singer, a mama, a guide, a community resource and just
beautiful inside and out in waysthat we were privy to back then
in 2017 and continue to bask in.
Veronica joined us again as wewent deeper into
(11:17):
demilitarization.
Because that first one wereally were talking more about
being an adult unschooler, whatthat meant if you didn't have
children, and then the secondone was even more specific to
her journey away from themilitary and what growth and
self-discovery meant for her.
I encourage you to go back toboth of those and then you can
(11:38):
get the links to where Veronicais now in her world and work and
see how it has evolved.
Sonia LeBlanc came throughtalking about her own community
self-directed education space asshe started a school and just
really talking about her passionfor creating these types of
learning environments and beingin community around it.
(12:00):
Shout out to Sonia, you areamazing.
Also, in season two, marleyjoined us.
She was just 13 years old, ibelieve at the time.
She was talking about herself-designed curriculum and
really just reminding us thateducation can take many forms
and that our children can shapetheir experiences, and that
(12:22):
unschooling is not the absenceof structure at all.
It is a more inclusive,involved type of structure and
shape taking that we are able tobe part of and not force.
In July of 2017, malika Diggsjoined us for the first time,
(12:47):
again with the blessing that Ihave of people that I meet
through this podcast, who becomefamily I could say that so
effortlessly that become KimFolk, people that I talk to on a
regular basis and rely on forcertain aspects of my own growth
(13:10):
and accountability.
Malika is so that And in 2017is when she first joined us to
talk about her perspective onmother work, without the
unnecessary borders and silosand labels, and just breathing
fresh air into this movement ofraising free people.
Shout out to Malika.
I also, throughout the season,had the opportunity to record
(13:33):
some solo episodes.
We talked about discipline, italked about travel and the
transition from homeschooling tounschooling.
Those episodes really allowedme to reflect on my own
experiences and share some ofthe things that really resonated
with so many of you, and I'm sograteful for that because, you
(13:53):
know, we be feeling like allkind of feelings in this life
when we venture away from themaze that they set us up in, and
so I love just being able toshare my life with you in these
ways that I choose and yousharing yours with me.
I remember also that yearthat's the year that I spoke at
Arrow conference and I talkedabout resistance and Patua and I
(14:16):
shared with some folks there myshero, dr Louise Bennett cover
Lee, known more so as Miss Lou,and she's just an orator and a
teacher, professor and a loverof Jamaican culture and language
and a liberator of JamaicanPatua, taking it out of the
(14:38):
shadows of something that youdon't say because the queen
wouldn't sanction it over tosomething to celebrate and be
proud of and to reallyunderstand.
And there's so many parallelsfor me with Patua and raising
free people, and so I've shareda lot about Miss Lou, even in
our make it happen family.
(14:58):
I've done some readings thereand really encourage you to
check out her work, as I didback in season two, back in a
day in 2017.
And last but certainly not least, we closed out season two with
another conversation with DrSinjata and me.
We talked about the importanceof standing in our troops, like
what that meant.
(15:19):
I just love being able to seehow that has evolved our lives
mine and Sinjata's in beautifulways, and we remain in touch.
As a starter point, season two,along with season one, would be
(15:43):
really helpful for people whoidentify as beginners on the
path, because we really not onlytouched on some of the fears
that we had as we were movinginto unschooling, but really a
lot of the wisdom that it wasalready bringing in and some of
the connections that we just hadmade before Season three
(16:12):
episodes 51 to 100.
Much like season two, therewere so many conversations that
allowed for expanding of thisthing from just a focus on
(16:33):
school or not school into whateventually I started calling
raising free people andrealizing that included raising
ourselves, raising our, ourvibration across relationships,
across generations, across allrelationships, including
generations after us.
So, kendall and summer, shoutout to y'all.
(16:54):
It was so beautiful to be ableto push back against the idea of
what a family is supposed tolook like and supposed to
experience.
Kendall and summer are a blackand queer married couple And in
that episode 51, the beginningof season three, we talked about
self love, cultural awarenessand they were raising both a
(17:16):
conventional school or and anunschooler at the same time.
So it was really interestingand I really recommend that
episode for just being able tolisten to someone's story and
push back against ideas that youhave about what something is
supposed to look like.
Shout out to Kendall and summer.
Thank you so much for thatepisode.
(17:37):
I did some solo episodes theretalking about like a vision for
a self directed world.
I talked about managing anxietyand push back parenting.
Push back in SDE spaces.
We had Zara Alabanza andAtlanta activists and dope human
joined us.
Aisha Cleveland Lang on selfmothering.
(17:59):
Aisha has joined us many timesover Kim Hester.
We had Trudy Lebron.
We had Lou Wilkerson Shout outto Lou, who went on to host
grief, growth and goals podcaston our network and is doing
amazing work right now with theDreamers Academy and Lou Hollis
(18:19):
talent management.
The links will be there.
Kelly Palmer formerly KellyCarboni Woods.
We had Doritzia Rivera, asiaRutledge, who also went on to
host.
She said we shed podcast.
Monique Allison on survivingsurvival mode.
(18:42):
Sister friend in the homie,najai Knox, who talked about de
schooling and founded deschooling DC.
Oh my goodness, theconversations.
Etl McVay joined us and I thinkthat was ETL's maybe second
time on the podcast.
Moji was in full swing with herpodcast.
(19:03):
We talked about black maternalmortality rates, intuition and
trust just connective, rooted,expansive, all at the same time.
Conversations happened and Ijust really love being able to
reflect on that and encourageyou, even if you listen to them
(19:25):
when they first came out.
Feel through some of these backin seasons one, two and three.
From where you are now.
You know when you read a bookthat just really changed your
life.
You read it at different timesin your life.
We could do the same thing withthe vibration of sound through
people's stories on podcasts.
So I encourage you to do thatand share with somebody else
(19:47):
what it does for you to reallygo back, as you now, to this
thing that moved you all the wayback then.
Thank you.
(20:27):
That was 2016, when a lot of theways that we were viewing
education was still fresh in ourminds the old ways that we
viewed education, the purpose ofit, the purpose of our children
, our roles as parents.
(20:48):
That was really just four yearsinto our unschooling journey,
what eventually became ourunschooling journey, and really
just a couple years into ourmoving away from just doing
school at home like that type ofhomeschooling.
So the first season of thepodcast is really good because
(21:10):
who I reached out to, how Iunderstood things feel like
those would be really useful andI know they've been useful
because I've been told that bydifferent people who have
listened to that first season.
The other thing is that I havea course and you literally will
have to message me some kind ofway you can email me.
(21:33):
I'm on Instagram.
You can always hit the voicememo app on raisingfreepeoplecom
If you ask me to open up thecourse that I created around
that time, which was called theunschooling entrepreneurs guide
to life in learning long namebecause I was like deeply into
(21:53):
the hitchhiker's guide to thegalaxy, as I still am, and I
wanted to create something thatfelt like a guide to this new
fucking planet of unschooling.
So if you are interested in that, i will give you access to it.
I cringe a little bit because,because I'm not there anymore,
(22:18):
you know a lot of the thingsthat I talked about then.
I don't even see it like thatanymore.
I don't even care about some ofthe shit I was focused on back
then My trust, work around, howlearning happens, and the role
of relationships and partnership, particularly with people I
(22:38):
love, like my children.
Those things have shifted somuch that if I were to do the
course again which I would liketo I would take such a different
approach.
I would be talking to you moreabout how you fucking feel and
how your children feel, and notso much what they're doing, not
(22:59):
because the doing isn't animportant part of the times when
we do need to progress and whengrowth is ripe and appropriate,
as opposed to forced.
We do need growth at some times, but back then I was so focused
(23:21):
on how to see it, how to noticeit, how to facilitate it,
whereas now, even talking with abeginner, i wouldn't focus on
that.
I would talk more aboutemotional needs and what you're
noticing.
I would offer education onthings like interoception and I
(23:45):
would talk about hearing moreabout what struggles your
children are having like intheir words, in their language.
Not so much what you've noticed, because so much of that helps
us to understand why we push andwhy our children resist and how
(24:07):
resistance can really be aroadmap and a relief from the
pressure to figure out how tofix or help our children or
ourselves or anybody else in ourlives.
I would be talking from muchmore a space of connectedness.
I wouldn't try to meet youwhere you were, because one of
(24:32):
the things that I know now abouthow I serve and how I support
is that I'm not really that'snot my ministry to meet people
where they are.
It's not that there's anythingwrong with that.
There are so many people in mylife like Malika Diggs of
Eclectic Learning Network, soskilled at meeting people where
(24:53):
they are in ways that cansupport them to another space.
But my alchemy, how I'm set up,is that I support you when
parts of you trust somethingdifferent than how you're
showing up.
Parts of you are in tune with adeeper truth than the surface,
(25:16):
truth that you keep on trusting.
What I'm for is to invite andinvoke that part of people.
That's what I do, and now thatI trust that way about myself so
much more because I've been inin community with people, like
some of you listening, whohelped me to trust that and who
(25:39):
show me how to not try toperform some other way than how
I work best.
That's where I would speak from.
So that's where I'm talking toyou from now.
If you're just getting startedand you might be dealing with
oftentimes regret, oftentimes asense that it's too late for you
(26:02):
to be at a more partnershipcentric level with a child in
your life, whether you're aparent or a different type of
caregiver, an educator, aneducator who's not a parent,
because all parents areeducators but not all educators
are parents.
If I'm talking to you from thatspace, i would say the guilt,
(26:24):
the sense of fear that it's toolate, the idea that you just
don't know what exactly to donow if you are gonna trust the
kid more, or what I hear a lotis my kid can't unschool because
they need structure.
That's a common myth.
(26:45):
So those are the type of spacesthat I'm wanting to bring some
offerings to.
The first thing is, i talkedlast week about how I had to
learn and Chris, my partner, hadto learn how not to fill this
(27:05):
perceived void once we stoppedsending them to school or if we
stopped using a specificcurriculum.
If so, if we were lessstructured, what would we do
instead?
I would say to a beginner thatthe question is not what do we
(27:28):
do instead, the question is oh,what's making me feel like if
we're not doing that, then weneed to be doing something else.
Why do I feel that way?
where's the proof of that?
what is it that I think wouldhappen if I just offered some
(27:50):
de-schooling time, meaning thatwe didn't have a particular
curriculum, they were doingnothing.
I wasn't making them doanything.
I wasn't trying to sign them upfor a particular thing just yet
.
I know that I want to get thereat some point, because I know
they need stimuli outside of thehouse, or I know I do not want
(28:13):
them and me to be together allday long.
That's stressful for me in waysthat I'm not.
I'm not feeling that right now.
So, even if my goal isultimately to do something else,
what might happen if I didn'trush to that something else?
So that's a question I mightsay if I don't give them
(28:38):
something to do, then that'smore pressure on me, because
they're gonna be being like mom,dad or whoever.
Can we do this?
What about this?
Watch me do this.
Wanna do this with me.
If you have a younger one, itmight be hard if you have a
seven, eight, nine year old,because sometimes they're still
(29:01):
dependent on that adult, theirprimary adult, to facilitate, to
entertain them, essentiallygive them something to do.
The thing about that is thatyou are the environment.
You are essentially thegovernment.
You are a child's government astheir adult, You are the
governing adult.
(29:21):
So that environment if youdon't want to be the primary
person that's doing the thingsfor them, then you and they both
have to develop the skills ofthat change.
What does it look like?
I remember when I was doingthat with our girls, we dealt
with it through proximity I'mgonna go in this room over here
(29:44):
and then you're gonna be in thisroom here, and so when this
timer goes off is when you cancome into the room that I'm in.
So what do you need to be inthis room for this time?
Like really just tryingdifferent practical things to
separate yourselves from eachother, to not assume that you
(30:05):
have to be the manager of theirschedule and life, even when
you're still like bathing themor helping them to do basic care
things.
There is a point where it isappropriate and necessary for a
young person, a young human, torely on.
(30:28):
Take from extract from thefirst the mother, and then
whoever the main adult is.
That's normal, natural, healthy.
That doesn't necessarily changeautomatically.
We don't just grow or age outof that.
There are things we can do tofacilitate that when we have a
(30:50):
younger one, and that's what weneed to be thinking about,
reading about asking thatquestion on the Facebook groups
or wherever it is that weconnect with other people, our
in-person events, gatheringsThese are the type of questions
we need to be asking.
If someone has a child that,like my youngest, was just super
I don't know if the term isself-regulated she just didn't
(31:11):
need to be around, nobody to donothing.
However, you word thatclinically she was that, and
whereas our oldest, miley, wasnot like that, and so we didn't
learn until later that a childcould even be that autonomous
and just do their thing gathertheir different toys, come get
you when they need something.
That's a thing that we, if weknew that was possible, we would
(31:37):
have been facilitating that,but when we knew it was possible
, then we were able tofacilitate it and nurture it in
both of them in different ways,and so that's something you can
really be just paying attentionto.
How to do that if that's notthe environment that you're
already in.
Sometimes we need to do thateven when a child is older.
That also helps us to begin torecognize ourselves.
(32:00):
Let me speak for myself, andalso no, i'm not just speaking
for myself, actually Becausethis is also very much informed
by the conversations that I havewith different people because I
am in this sort of unique, inmany ways, a position of
studying, unschooling, life andculture, because we live it and
(32:24):
we're invited into differentforms of it all the time in
different parts of the world myfamily and me And so I'm not
just speaking for myself.
I'm also wanting to make sureyou are aware that other people,
not just me, are experiencingthis thing.
You could have, for example, a12-year-old or 13-year-old
(32:47):
that's still really dependent ontheir primary adult for what to
do, how to engage their timewhen they're not in school.
That can happen, and so I don'twant you to think that, if
you're having this experiencewith a preteen or a teen, that
it's too late for you to startdeveloping those skills or
(33:08):
practicing those skills.
It's not.
Another thing that I would sayfor a beginner is to really try
to separate yourself, which isreally tied to what I was just
talking about as well separateyour role of teacher, because if
(33:29):
you're a parent, you'reautomatically a teacher, you're
an educator, and if you choseeducation not because you have
children but because you wannabe in that world, there's a way
that we as adults can blend ourteacher or guide self with the
(33:53):
rest of ourselves in a way thatmakes it hard for us to see that
young person as just a person.
We tie all types ofexpectations around our role as
teacher or guide or facilitatoror parent.
We latch that on to that youngperson And so, because of that,
(34:14):
they're too close to our shit.
Like we need some distance sowe can see them as a whole human
.
We can see them as having theright to discover some things
that somebody isn't trying toforce them to see.
We can see them as imperfect,and necessarily imperfect, so
(34:34):
that they can make certainmistakes that they need to make
in order to evolve, so that wecan see ourselves as also humans
who are imperfect and that whatwe are seeing for them, what we
want for them, might notactually be what's best for them
(34:57):
.
Even if we're coming from agreat place, can we honor the
right that comes with them notbeing, not being just for you.
Their life isn't just aboutwhat you understand for them or
how you understand them to be orwhat you think they need.
(35:19):
There is some other type oftrust work to be done around
distancing yourself as theiradult, their governing adult,
distancing yourself from theexpectations you have for their
life and how they are going toget certain skills that you
(35:42):
think that they will need.
For example, if you arethinking that your version of
unschooling should look like noschool, no curriculum, but you
don't know where to start.
So you are going to say to themalright, i am not going to give
(36:03):
you a specific curriculum, butI want you to pay some attention
to these couple of books.
Or I want you to watch thisparticular thing.
I remember we did some of thatbecause we just needed
scaffolding.
We were not able to jump fromgiving them things to do to not
giving them anything to do atall.
We would assign things, but ifthey didn't do the assigned
(36:26):
thing, instead of trying tofigure out how to make them do
it, we would make the lessonreally be about okay, how do we
handle that?
they didn't do it?
What type of feelings is itbringing up for me?
What type of feelings is itbringing up for Chris?
Where do I feel disrespected?
(36:46):
Whatever it is that I feel,what am I doing with that
feeling?
How did I express it?
What else is it bringing up forme?
to really use these experiencesas an opportunity to
investigate all the shit behindit, all the behind the scenes,
not whether they did the thingor didn't do the thing, but all
(37:08):
of the other things behind itthe emotions, the reactions, the
tendency.
What happens if you didn'tfollow what you tended to do
this time?
What if you didn't make it abig deal that they didn't do the
thing?
How did they react to that?
What did they say to you aboutwhether they were surprised that
your reaction or not?
(37:29):
How do you feel about the factthat they expected you to behave
a certain way and you didn't?
What else is that related tomad question asking and asking
different questions than theones that you would default to
if you were just thinking aboutthem as a student and you were
just thinking about yourself asthe guy, the teacher, the
(37:51):
facilitator, the parent, and alot of what we discussed in
Season 1 speaks to that, a lotof what is in the blog post on
selfdirectedorg the Alliance forSelf-Directed Education that
site.
If you read a lot of the blogsthere, you'll see how people
(38:17):
shifted over from the questionsabout education and over into
the questions about relationshipand the drivers.
What's actually driving ourfocal points here?
Who is in my head when I try tomake my kid do something, or
when I react this way tosomething my kid doesn't do?
(38:40):
Who's in my head?
Who am I performing for when Imake my kid perform?
What is my kid reacting to?
Are they reacting to the thingthat I'm asking or is there
something else that they'rereacting to?
Is there a pattern here thatthey are responding to?
When I think about theopportunities that I want a
(39:02):
child to have, am I alsofactoring in the emotional, a
mental wellness, or am I onlythinking about education?
Where is education actuallygetting in the way of the
emotional, the mental wellnessthat I also want for a child and
(39:22):
for myself?
Who's performing here and forwhom?
These things And questions canalso be mantras, any one of
those things that resonated foryou in what I was bringing up,
what I was asking.
You might write it down and putit somewhere where you see it
(39:45):
often, so that you can use thequestions to guide your actions
or to make sense of your actionsin a moment.
I would also say that one ofthe easiest things that you can
(40:06):
begin to do as a beginner intothis non-school-centric way,
even if your kid is in school,one of the easiest allegedly
perhaps easiest things to do isto just listen more.
Listen more to that child,listen more to your inner voice,
(40:30):
listen out more for your innercritic.
Make your inner critic morevisible by writing down things
or sharing in a group thatyou're in where there's some
trust, sharing what your innercritic said when you chose a
different route, even if itdidn't have anything to do with
a kid Becoming a better listener, because part of what these
(40:57):
systems do, thesenon-human-centric systems like
the school system, part of whatthey do is they get louder than
what we actually need to belistening to.
We can't hear because we are sofocused on doing, producing,
(41:17):
performing, grinding that we'renot listening.
We're tired.
We're too tired to listen.
We're too worn out to listen.
We don't have enough of ourbasic needs met to try to be
listening to somebody, somesofter inner voice, when we try
to figure shit out.
(41:38):
But if you can manage to decideand commit to just listening
more than you talk in, listeningmore than you're explaining,
listening more than you try tofigure out.
That alone is going to guideyou further into this practice
(41:58):
of raising free people.
That alone.
So this is it.
This was a long episode.
I'm going to really play withhow I recap the rest of the
(42:19):
episodes, but, as always, i feelyour presence and energy when I
record these things.
I want you to know that I feelit.
So, as usual, thank you forbeing here and chat to you next
week when we continue.
We'll recap the next couple ofseasons and see what else we get
(42:40):
into.
Much love.
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