January 22, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode, Edgar Marquez breaks down his unique freehand tattooing style, explaining how ditching stencils has allowed him to create more fluid, dynamic designs with intense focal points. He shares insights on balancing texture and value, harmonizing new tattoos with existing work, and the importance of observing tattoo masters to evolve as an artist. Edgar also opens up about managing client comfort, avoiding burnout, and finding fresh inspiration through personal art projects.
Whether you’re an aspiring artist or a seasoned vet, Edgar’s perspective on blending creativity, craftsmanship, and client care is packed with actionable takeaways. Tune in for a deep dive into what it really means to push boundaries while staying grounded in the fundamentals of tattooing.
Check out Edgars work and links to reach him in the Deep Dive:
https://www.firesidetattoo.com/tattoo-library/a-loose-approach-to-tattoo-design-edgar-marquez-ep-287~29271
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https://www.instagram.com/ediablo
https://www.instagram.com/3eyecircle
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey there,everybody. Welcome to the fireside.
My name is Jake.
Happy to have you back for another episode
from the Richmond Tattooand Arts Festival.
Of 2024.
This is a fun one.
This one is with our buddy Edgar Marquez.
Edgar.
We first podcast with Edgarquite a few years back
at the Evergreen Tattoo Invitational, which is a really fun show as well.
(00:22):
We haven't been out there in a while,
but that's where I first met Edgar,and we've crossed paths a lot since then.
Really, really love his tattooing.
He's got a very unique style and,his approach is really interesting.
So that's what we talked about a lotin this episode.
We talked about just his,his kind of loose approach to design
and how he refines his tattoos as he goesalong.
(00:44):
Talks about a lot of other stuff, too,but mainly this is a process oriented or,
like, drawing and tattootechnical stuff, focused episode.
So for those of you who are into thatkind of stuff, you should like this one.
Before we get started,it's cold outside right now.
You can tell if you're watching thisbecause I'm wearing, stocking cap.
But pretty soon it's going to be timefor the Fireside Yacht Club.
(01:06):
And if you have not been on a firesideyacht club trip, you should do this one
that's coming up this June.
I'm going to leave a link below,with Fireside Yacht Club.
It is is,
I bring along five tattooers five artists.
You don't have to be a tattooer,but most of them are, five artists.
Come to my boat is a 43ft motoryacht in beautiful
(01:27):
Heber Springs, Arkansas on GooseFerry Lake.
If you don't like lakes, it'sbecause you haven't been to this one.
Crystal clear, big cliffs.
You can just ask the folkswho have already been.
It's really, really something special.You come out for about four days.
It is a great, great valuebecause it's all inclusive.
Your, your stay.
We stay at an Airbnb that is on eden islea very beautiful little area.
Right next to my Marina.
(01:48):
And then we walk downeach morning to the boat.
We spend the day drawing and paintingand swimming and jet skiing and,
you know, just relaxing on the boat.
My special guests for this upcomingFireside Yacht Club trip is Ande Chambers.
And if you've been following fireside
for any period of time,you definitely know Andy.
He is one of my favorite, illustrativestyle Tattooers working today.
He's going to come along with us
(02:09):
and he's going to be teachingsome of his illustrative stylings.
But yeah,I'm going to leave a link below.
Only five spots available.
So I'm sure it will go quickly.
If you have any questions, you canemail me Jake at Fireside tattoo.com
and ask,and I will be happy to get back with you.
What else?
I think that's it. Enjoy the episodeand I'll see you at the end.
(02:33):
Let's, let's kick it off.
We haven't done this in a while,so I'm just going to pretend I'm
sure some of the stuff we talk about,we talked about the last time
we podcasted, but it's been quitea few years doing quite very, good.
4 or 5 years, if not more. Yeah.
Yeah, I was up,so we'll just kind of start over.
Like we haven't, like we haven't done before.
I was in watching you tattoo yesterdayand I've seen it.
I mean, you show your processa lot on your social media and stuff,
(02:56):
but like how how loose you startand then how refined you,
you kind of end up like,you don't do a lot of, how often
do you use the stenciland prepare like, on the front end?
You know, within the past years,within the past years, it's been
less and less and less, you know,I guess, the clientele
are requesting me more like, just go wildyou know, it's it's cool.
(03:18):
We'll go free with it.
You know,I think that's part of the free hand.
And just be free with it, you know?
I mean, not, not just stencil this
and freehand this,you know, just go completely free with it.
And, how often like, pretty much there's, like,
almost my daily routine, you know, to a point where, like,
I don't even have a printerat the, at the, my studio.
(03:38):
Oh, wow. Oh, no.
So even even if, even if I,if somebody comes in with a stencil,
I'm like, I'm a free handed.
I don't care how it comes out.
You know,it could be a girl's face or whatever.
You know, obviously I don't doportrait work or none of that, you know,
but within my range of what I do itthe ever like.
Yeah. I'm not going to stencil shit,you know. Yeah, yeah.
Well it looks it looks to me like I mean,you work like general to specific.
(04:02):
So it looks like you're just blocking outbig sweeping shapes.
And then I guess from thereare you like kind of deciding like,
all right,
this is a darker shapeand that's a lighter shape
or like foregrounds, darkbackgrounds, light.
That's like that simple.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like for example, the piece yesterday,that was like a giant cover up
and, like a whole big, whole backbecause he had like, a back piece done.
(04:23):
And I just started a new one, pretty much.
So, that was actually I took, like aI flip the coin,
see how it comes out, hoping my customerwill come back because he flew into LA,
and we did, two sessions,and I just mapped it with opaque grays.
I didn't even put blacks
and I didn't put nothing,so it legit looked like a mess, you know?
But I know my process.
(04:43):
I was like, just hoping he will come back
so I could dothe cool stuff, you know? So
with itthis time, this second time around.
And he came back withdid the blacks and the actual detail,
you know, like all the texturesor the highlights or the,
the accent pointsand all this is super heavy lines.
No lines, you know what I mean?
So it's like a gamble.
(05:03):
You're not throwing your work out there.
Just been lookinglike I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm But yeah, it's a great turnoutin his turn out pretty good.
Yeah, well, I mean, I had no ideaI watched you a little bit yesterday
I didn't realize it was a cover up.I mean, I didn't get way up on it.
I wasn't in your booth.
But to me, it looked like the arrangementof dark and light shapes.
Like you.Like I saw what I was supposed to see.
Like you drove my eye,my attention to the center.
(05:25):
I wasn't paying attention to the stuffsurrounding it.
Says it, you know, it is prettymuch like the drawings, you know, like,
pretty muchyou need to create your focal points.
Yeah.
So I was saying, like, you drovethe attention to, like, the place that
that you want to drive attention toand distracted from the other area and.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'm pretty consistentto trying to stick to
(05:46):
what my drawing is, how I do my drawings.
You know, I always trying to create,
like, a super intense focal point,you know, like, regardless of size,
you know, it could be a giant backthese or, arm sleeve or exactly
whatever size, you know,could be a single piece.
I always trying to,
create that super heavy focal pointwith either with lines
or heavy outlines or blacks,you know what I mean?
And the rest of it is like,almost like I don't care, kind of,
(06:09):
you know what I mean?
Because it also helps to connect, like
future artists are going to connectto my pieces, leaving like the
the far ends of the tattoo are likesoft edged in a way.
That wayother people can connect real good.
And it looks great here.
I mean, yeah, instead of surroundingeverything with just black.
Yeah. So I mean so right.
So yeah, I justI put, I've put the attention to the main
(06:30):
focal points a lot like teeth, eyesand noses and stuff like that.
Yeah. In this case tentacles. But. Right.
Yeah I think that's somethingthe edges of tattoos
that it is neglected a lot,especially with a lot of darker stuff
like similar to what you do nowor even a lot of realism, color realism
that everyone kind of likejust saturates the edges out to nothing
and they just fall outand they don't give an end
(06:51):
for someone else to come in and grab itand move on with it.
You know, it's just like I youif I'm trying to do something,
I'm working up against this,like blob of background space.
And I'm like, I mean, I, you know,I can't do anything with it, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I startedI started thinking a lot like,
I don't know if I mentionedthe last time I interned in Oregon,
but I started thinking a lot like,I see the body, like, legit like a canvas,
(07:13):
you know?
And it's not, it's not about,oh, it's my piece.
And fuck the rest.
You know, I think about it, man.
His body will look betterif I can flow it to according Into what
the other pieces he has, you know,
like trying to think that little extraten minutes just to see what we can do
to connect that. Right.
So the whole canvas in generallooks good. Yeah.
You know, not just my piece, you know,but I want to he's back and he's.
(07:36):
And the arm that he already has connectedtogether somehow.
You know, either by color, by shapes,by flow, by negatives or whatever it is.
Okay. Yeah.
Yeah, I, I always think that it's easierto think that way
if someone has like an existing pieceand say there's a sweeping shape
on their shoulder
and I'm coming around their chest,that sweeping shape, I want to repeat it,
(07:56):
you know, because it's like, well,it's already there.
If I do it again, it'll look intentionaland it gives me a starting point,
like I'm not starting from nothing,you know?
Right. Yeah.
And it goes with the symmetry of the body,you know, like if you have.
Yeah.
Like you said, you have a movement
going up in your shoulderand your other shoulder is it's free.
I intentionally do that like tryingto make the same shape and flow into,
into your new shoulder, you know? Yeah.
(08:17):
Either with, with the main subject or,or a secondary subject, but
he's going to have that same he'sgoing to have like a symmetry
in your body,you know, and I think it looks super cool.
You know.
Yeah.
And, andand I mean we get that all from Filip Leu.
No I mean, but I was like, that'swhy it's important to, to look through
all the other times of tattooingregardless of is your style or not.
But it's good to observe.
(08:38):
You know what do itall those like legit like
masters are doing you all thatthey're real masters of tattooing.
That's why they do it, you know,and I think, we need to observe
and appreciate and execute the same,you know?
Yeah.
They have a reason, you know. Yeah.
Or a good way in aiming for you.
Thinks about all of that, you know,I mean, I'm pretty sure and
(08:59):
yeah, I think there iswe can do it in all other
elements, like not elementsin other styles, you know, it is.
So I'm trying to implement that.
You know, that movement and flow
and connecting to other existing piecesfor the rest of the body canvas.
Right, right.
Yeah.
So yeah, it's interestingbecause stylistically you're
you're pretty different from eitherFilip Leu or Jeff Gogue.
They have a very liketraditional type of style with that.
(09:20):
But those elements of like repeatingshapes are like
you even mentioned, like trying to usereally bold edges where you're
trying to focus attention,like in a very traditional tattoo manner.
Right? Yeah.
I feel likeit's like literally like the same
the same execution, just different style.
But it's like the same, like big,big shapes of shading, you know,
(09:41):
big shapes of black, big shape for,for or whatever, you know, and
but it's the same thing,which is different style, you know, but,
thanks to them, you know, it's Shige
you know, I, I rememberI drove eight hours from L.A.
to San Francisco, like 15 years agojust to see Shige tattoo.
And and he hit me.
You know,
I just drove that just to see him tattoofor two hours and drove by, you know?
(10:02):
Yeah.
And and he opened my mindto, like, oh, that's why you see
all these big open spaces of just shading,you know?
So I follow the fucking fish, looks Likeit wants to jump out of the back?
You see what I mean?
So that, you know. Yeah.
So that's why it's good to still creditthose kind of art is you name it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Talk about the, I mean, I watch your,
(10:25):
your you you have a lot of texture,a lot of, a lot of detail.
And I think as tattooers
a lot of times you get dialed inor we all get dialed in on
whatever area we're working onif we want to naturally, like,
draw attention to that area,like every area it can, it can be easy
to like, want to make every area importantand come forward.
But in your workthat would be or in anyone's why,
(10:46):
but in your work in particular,that would be chaos, right?
Very chaotic. Yeah. So so do you.
I mean, are you like, intentionally liketaking breaks, getting back, squinting,
looking at, like or what's your processfor thinking about that.
Yeah.Especially if it's like a big piece. Yeah.
You need to take your break,you know, step back,
really observe what's going onand and really make that call, like.
(11:07):
All right, I'm gonna leave it like that.
No more textures on this little areabecause the next layer next to it,
you know, it's already supersaturated with textures.
Or you can we can also do texturesbetter with the lighter tone.
This is what I'm so gradually it's, it'sgetting into a very like
super solid textures into like a darkand then accent it.
(11:31):
I don't know if you make sense knowlike yeah grey wash,
midtone, and black with highlightsand that's and it so it gives a transition
even out of textures,you know, not just all the same.
Yeah.
Pretty much.
Once againI go back to Japanese where because,
you observe when they dothe scales on the fish, you know what?
What's underneath the water?
(11:51):
You know, when the water comes in, they'relike light gray, you know what I mean?
And as he's coming towardsboard, there's more highlight in it.
First I start with white the blackand then thicker and thicker into a
I was like, fuck that fucking scale.So fake you I mean yeah.
And it was I think this would the same.
Once again I think is with the same, process and execution, you know,
just different style, you know,and, yeah, but yeah, I see what you see.
(12:15):
What you mean when it's a smaller piece,but obviously there's no
need to read or step back a couple steps,but you get to see it in.
Yeah. But but yeah.
Yeah I think that's an important wayto look I
so it's less about the amount of detail
or textureand more about kind of the value. Right.
Squeezing that out of your range. Right.
So you're only using the full value range
and the parts that you'rereally trying to drive people to.
You can essentially usethe same texture over here,
(12:36):
but you're just using you're squeezingthe value range with it. Exactly.
So the furtherhe goes into the edge of the tattoo,
the lighter he gets somehow or lessless lines and it less accents, you know?
Yeah. So, and that's what he gives you.
It makes it look like,you know, way more round,
you know, and it gives itmore sense of space and everything.
You know.
Right.
And, he's been working for me nowfor years. So.
(13:00):
Yeah. Yeah, it's been pretty cool.
Yeah, yeah.
Another thing that you're,that you do really well that I think is,
is particularly challengingis, is using them using color highlight.
So a color saturationbackground in a black and gray foreground.
So like when you're when you're primarythe subject matter is all black and gray.
But maybe it's backlit with a redor some type of a glowing thing.
(13:23):
And it can I think the easy the reasonthat's a challenge for a lot of people
is it's hard to see where an intense colorsits on the value scale,
but you don't know how dark or lightthat red is, you know, because it's red.
Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah.
Especially red since it's,the lighter values, you know,
no matter how dark you put it,unless you really have, like, go ahead.
But like, red tends to be on the lightervalues, you know, so
(13:45):
the is challenging but but also yeah,you need to have a sense
of where to put it, you know, I mean, notjust all over the fucking place.
You don't want to fuck upyour focal points or or you know, but,
but yeah, it's a very interestingto see where you put it.
That's why it's important to,to really observe all the art.
You know, in this case, I'm sorryif I just out naming, you know, but,
(14:06):
like, Victor Portugal was doing itfor, like, 20, but 20 something years ago.
You know, I rememberwhen he used to do these, like,
ocheryellows into his little subtle of color.
And I was like, oh, fuck.
But that's just about where he putit is like that little placement
on, I don't know, but like, on the jaw,you know.
Yeah, it was a straight up saying,look at my...
look at the teeth of this skull, you know.
(14:27):
So that's where it tracks your attention.
So I trying to do the same thing,you know, but and but yeah,
those are things that once againcomes from this guy that experimented.
I think we have it easier, all these newguys that came after that way
because we justwe're just executing what they did
in a different way,you know, in our own ways.
But but thanks to them,you know, that they, they brought that out
(14:48):
on like they open your braininto push more ideas out.
Yeah. You know. Right. So yeah. Yeah.
And I think that's, that's another big
trick of it is kind of learningwhere to where to put what to say.
The color in a black and gray tattoo.
Because if it's if it's, like, an ambient color
that's coming from the background,that's like that, you think, oh,
you should bathe forwardin the whole foreground,
(15:09):
but if you like, got that thing into yourforeground shape, it would destroy the.
Yeah.
Now you have to use reflective lightand all that shit. Now.
Now you beat turns into a color piece,you know? I mean, right?
That's why it's not cool to use
so much at the same time, you know, it'smainly to create contrast, you know, and,
and something a little bit,something different to see, you know,
because if you really go with itand you start using a lot and
(15:30):
I don't know where your backgroundreally turns into just color
now, you hope is you need to fuck aroundwith a lot of reflective lights
and then under lights and there, you know,it turns into a shit show, but.
Right.
But yeah, I, I keep it very subtleat the same time, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
What about, because you're doing,you know, long sessions.
You're building
a lot of texture, you know, in a singleand multiple passes in the same day.
(15:54):
What do you think?
Or how do you think about, a couple of things.
One, just like working the skin, keepingthe skin workable, not overworking it.
And then two, like,just client management, pain management
with like, this dude yesterdayall on his ribs.
Man. Yeah.
I mean, Bill,he he's a fucking tank, bro.
You know,he doesn't complain like you can.
(16:14):
You can set him uplike fucking upside down.
And you'd be like, fuck it.
This is what you have to do.You have to do it. You know what I mean?
So I'm so gratefulat times like that, you know?
But I always try to make it as comfortableas possible to, you know, like,
well, couldwe could get a pillow, you know,
I mean, Steve brought a pillowfrom his fucking room,
you know, like, you all bro,here's a pillow for your chest, you know?
And, but, like, in my studio is like,I have heating pads, and and I have, like,
(16:38):
extra cushion on my blanket,you know, by, like, those,
those foams,and they're, like, real fucking sick.
Oh, yeah.
So they later try to make itas comfortable as possible for them.
And he works, you know, and,and it's crazy to say that
because I saw Jeff at a conventionin Pasadena about ten years ago,
his guy,and he was, like, wrapped up in blankets,
except the leg that it was the battery byand I and those lights.
(17:02):
Yeah. You know, and it. Yeah.
I mean, there's nothing new, you know,it's just once again just observing what,
you know, what all these guys are doing.
Like I'm like,I ask the same question, you know, like,
how does he get his clientsto sit for so long, you know.
Oh yeah.
You obviously
you treat them good a comfortable spotor they're going to get tattoo you on it.
I mean,and I tend to do a lot of cold water.
(17:25):
I use a lot of cold water.
You know, and that's whyI have heating blankets to compensate.
Because, cold water.
I tend to see that becausethe redness away, you know, the swelling
away, you know?
And, so I always triedlike, in my studio, I legit
grab the water from my fucking fridge,order in my in my bottle.
You know, and it works.
Just plain distilled water, you know, whenit works, it works great, you know that.
(17:48):
But that's why they heated blankets.
So you don't want to do thathere, you know?
Right. That, but it works.
It works great for me, you know? Yeah.
We just did a, a podcast with a guy,a friend of ours,
and Kurt Jacobson who does threeThere's a lot of competition tattooing.
So he does three day projects for bestthe show.
And his big thing was like,you want to make sure the client, can,
(18:09):
like, have all the blankets they needand stripped down to their underwear
if they need to, if they want to bein their boxers with a beanie
on, like, the stocking cap on, like,you just want to make sure that
that they can, like, make changeson the fly for their own comfort.
Yeah. And I it's,Yeah, it's an interesting thought.
I've never, you know, I mean, I,I ask people if they're comfortable.
I'll change the heat in the studio,but I don't like,
(18:31):
prepare for, like,winter clothes and summer clothes.
Yeah.
I mean, that's a good thing about, in your studio, you can get,
you can get them as comfortableas possible.
Yeah.
Getting heaters and all that, you know,I don't know, fans/ACs, whatever,
you know, but, but, yeah,I mean, in this case, in conventions,
you can't you can't do that, you know?
So you have to rough it out. Yeah.
(18:52):
But do you go ahead.
Do you use any, like,topicals, like, like Bactine
or anything I use bactine you, but, almost like, at the end,
I notice in my clientsthat if I start using it
right since the beginning,they tend to, like,
depend on it, maybe moreso at the same time,
I feel like they build theirfucking strength, you know, mentally,
(19:14):
and they don't even need it.
You know, once again, like Bill,
you never ask for like on those two dayshe never asked for it or you got bactine?
or nothing like that, you know,which is sitting.
It was like,are you doing it like it sucks?
But, you know, I mean, but I'm ready.
You know, I'm like,you need to do ten hours till I'm ready.
I'm like, bro,
my bed can do an hour, you know?
Yeah. No, that's a rare client.
Once again, I think, I,I think I'm very lucky with those man,
(19:36):
those kinda clients here to me thatthey don't ask me for of that, you know,
but I do have back in on the sidejust in case, you know,
but at the end for highlights,you know, that's when I'm like,
all right, I'll give you a break.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, but yeah, I wonderI wonder if it has to do with your like
your look,
your style, like the type of clients you,that you draw in that they're just like,
I'm not tapping out, like, justthat type of person that's like, you.
(19:58):
I maybe draw in that type of client,you know?
I mean, yeah, I mean, this is this
your fucking guys are going to a bitwith fucking.
All these motherfuckers have spinesin their hands and the jackets, you know,
where they been through pain,you know, worst mania.
Like, I remember one of my clients,I think he went to
a, metal festival in Finlandor somewhere.
Where? There in Europe.
And he came back with the black eye
and a shitload of bruises on his backand body, you know, like he legit flew
(20:21):
in the day before the fucking like dude,What the fuck happened?
You got jumpedlike. Nah, I was in the pit ,
but he only lasted two hours.
That says, you know that nowyou're a star, bro. All right?
I get to fuck you up more.You it all right?
But I think he has a lot to dowith the year.
I mean, yeah, yeah, I know what's up.
But I also have my clients on there like,bro, this is that I can, you know, two,
(20:42):
four hours. Yeah. Oh I get it. You.
I can only serve for like six hoursat a time too, you know?
Right. Yeah, yeah.
Same here I, I struggle, over longand I'm,
I'm getting a full back, like neckto ankle back piece from Ande Chambers.
You know, Ande?
Yeah. Know.
But I can fly up in this areaand do back to back days.
You know, by the second.
(21:02):
I'm nearly 50 years old.
By the second day, like, my body hurts.
Even if I were not getting tattooed,
just being in the position for two daysor my body hurts, you know?
And so, Yeah, I mean, I, I, I get it, I,it's funny, you go years like for me,
I would go years
and I get tattooed and it's easy to forgetwhat you put people through, you know,
and then when you start getting tattooedyou're like, oh shit. Yeah.
No, it was I mean, you have to get tattoosso you can have some kind of a
(21:25):
sympathy towards.
I try and, you know,because sometimes you forget
and then they it's,it's a fucking organic. You
piece you're working on,
you know, it's not a piece of plastic or,you know, right.
It's something that it's aliveand it's such, you know.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like,
but yeah, I mean, you toughen up,you you learn how to tough up, you know,
you don't want to sound the
(21:46):
with the fucking pussy, you know,
and especially with that kind of youadmire so much, you know,
like Robert, he tattooed the inner pieceof my Robert Hernandez.
Yeah. That who the inner peace.
And it was like every ten minuteshe was like, you're good.
You want bactine?
I’m like naw, man I'm cool.
in my headI was like, fuck yeah. What am I doing?
You know,
I was like, all right, but not like,but you, you fucking tough up, you know?
(22:07):
And er, he also teach me to learn when,when the client
sometimes the client said no, I'm okay.
Just you don't want to sound like a pussy,but their body is asking for, you know.
So I learned to reach out to you.
Okay.
This area I'm going to use bactine,you know, I mean,
and when I see I'm more relaxed, I'm.
My eyes go right here.
I mean, you see it when they're when youhit the needle, they tense a little bit.
(22:28):
They're like, gets a little shaky,you know.
Yeah.
He needs bactine And you know whenthey don't they're just super relaxed.
You know all of thatwith time team. Right.
And sir and I assume going backto kind of the process
and a lot of the layering that you do,the cold water probably helps you
to read the skin a lotand know how far you're going to be. What.
Sure. Yes. Yeah.
Yeah.
Big because it just, the swelling comes down, you know, I mean,
(22:51):
I get to see the true value of the of the.
Yeah.
How the tattoo is going to achieve younaming. Right.
Are you from,just a technical standpoint, when you're,
you know, you're laying out big shapesand I assume you're using, like, I'm
just going to guess you're using, like,
maybe the big magsto start to sculpt shapes
and then coming upwith smaller configurations.
Or do you come in and like correctin lay in lines and stuff first a lot.
(23:12):
I, I use for if this is a big piece,
if it's like a project,I start with A55 magno.
Okay?
I do outline everythingwith my light tones.
I don't, I don't like, light lines.
I feel like, like right off the go.
You're hurting them like lights, you know?
So magnums are a little bit softer,you know, and I don't do an outline.
(23:35):
It's like I'm not cutting themopen. Right? It's just the beginning.
Because even if it's a water line,you still curve more.
And. Yeah.
So when I do a five Magnum is like,I'm already building something, you know?
I mean, yeah, I'm already building textureand whatnot, and I just pretty much draw
the shape of it, you know, and,and then I come back with the big Magnum.
It could be a 49or a 27, depending on the area.
(23:57):
The the big shape of mass,
the big, massive,
well, value, whatever value it is.
And then come back with detailwith the smaller needle.
You know, I usually useeither, for detail, I use either
a, liner, 11 or a nine. It.
Okay.
And then I go much smaller than I. Yeah,yeah.
(24:18):
And, people think I use round shaders,but I don't.
And because, I wonder these are to besuper sharp when he he'll still, you know.
Yeah, we all know that round shaders areit's more for a softer work.
So. But yeah.
And in between the 49 magnums
all the way down to the five,I use all of them depending on the area.
I'm like okay, this cool.
This little areais perfect for nine magnum
(24:40):
You know any or it’s is perfectfor a 50 mag.
You know, I, I Magnum,I love using 19 magnums
because it's like in betweenall of them, right?
You know what I mean?
So one of my favorites, you know, likeare you using curved or straight mags?
But I use only curve.
I was never a little fucking tattoowith a straight mag.
Yeah, yeah.
I discover very fast in my beginningof tattooing that I was hurting people.
(25:01):
Yeah, all I choose, I cad, you know,I don't have a sense of the angle.
Like you like a perfect angle for that.You know. Right.
And I would say fucking tattoo artistlike victor portugal,
like he uses those,you know, like fucking heal.
Perfect.
I'm a fucking I he, you know, and I,
just wasn't able to provide a good thingthat, there was another option.
So, you know.
Yeah, yeah, I didn't when I started, I
(25:23):
if there were curvemags, I had never heard of them.
Yeah, we just had flat mags and, andI can remember very early in my career,
when I started, it was a lot of tribal
lower back, butterfly,all that kind of stuff.
And so, you know, youryou line everything and then
and then I would come inwith the side of that mag
and try to get that, fill that taperand you would see like a little razor cut
like just I was slicingpeople like, oh, I always ask know.
(25:44):
Yeah, fucking well we sent them to scarbelow like, yeah.
And it'd be a fucking VIP ticket. Yeah.
Me. Right.
No. Later on said, that's not right.
You know I can't do that, right?Yeah, yeah.
Usually those little edges, those littletiny corners that were fucking scar below.
What happened with those magnums?Yeah, yeah.
And I have that thanks to that.
I admire people so much for that.
Regardless of style, what they do,people are able to use those.
(26:07):
It's like something to admire,you know, respect, you know, like, fuck,
I don't give a fuck if you did a butterfly, but if you did, that would if that.
I sorry.
Leave. Looks like that.
Yeah you do Yeah, but he's good to fine.
I mean, I'm pretty sure they wewe tried it and you would achieve it.
You know me,
but I was like, well, let me let me seewhat what else is out there, you know.
(26:28):
And and I got super comfortablewith the round magazine.
That's what I use and. Yeah. Yeah.
What about like, from a drawing,like just design standpoint.
I mean, obviouslypeople come to you for a certain thing.
Do you ever feel like.
All right, I'm kind of,like, burnt out on this subject matter?
Do you want to, like, how are you?
Are you ableto, like, introduce new, different
(26:49):
subject matters, different ideas,
or do you have any interestor do you just like to explore
the kind of textural like darker stuffthat you've been doing, right?
Well, in tattooing it's in enter
in the tattooing matter,it becomes repetitive.
You know, I mean, it becomes repetitiveno matter and no matter because people.
Exactly.
That's what they wantis that you can do the same fucking skull.
(27:10):
And people, if you did a real badass
skull, people are going to be like,I want something like that. Sure.
So and if you try to move away from thatdesign, they're like, no, I just
kind of want like this one, as I haveshown, I'm like, well, I skipped stairs.
You know what?
Some of them were like, whoa, I kind ofwant to more like the one you did before.
I'm like like like two years agoat the, Gods of Ink convention.
You know, I legitdid the fucking same demon.
(27:31):
Three days in a row.
Oh, I like the same face because I went inwith, I was booked, you know,
and I did my in my friend'shead with the demon face on a Friday.
The Saturday guy,I didn't know what he wanted.
He was like, yo, I want that same thingyou did on on me on the.
Okay, cool. You know, the Sunday.
You're that guy. You.
They don't fry one.
That's exact.
I'm like, oh fuck, I enjoyed it, but.
(27:54):
And I showed them something different.
He was like, well,how about we do like tentacles.
It will fit the body or like, more like the, okay.
You know, so it'skind of a move away from it, you know, but
in drawing and paintingand fucking with other subjects, you know,
I mean, I'm going back into, like, reallydrawing for me.
You know, I think I went a little bit, commercial in a way.
(28:16):
You could say more for the for the,the tattoo community,
but they like about me, you know?
But I was leavingbehind what I like about myself.
So I'm doing that in painting and drawing,and I've been reconnecting
with what I want for me now.
Now that I have some kind of a style,you know, I call it.
So now, like, okay, I'm drawing some cool.
I started to draw and paintmy travel experiences.
(28:39):
Wow. You know, that's in some of my sketchwork that I brought today.
I'm drawing like, like the the castle
gorillas in Switzerland,you know, with some elements of Giger.
And so I'm, like, mixing it real cool,but it's actually like a moment
in time that I was there that I'm drawing.
Yeah. So it's like legitjust for me. Yeah. I mean, right.
Or like the Barcelona
fucking, church, you know,you know, a Gaudi church or area, right?
(29:02):
Yeah. Gaudi church, you know.
So those little moments, I'mdrawing them now for me, you know,
and they're still, you know, I'm actuallypeople by some of those are like, dude.
Okay.
So but yeah, now I'm drawing for mea little bit more and I'm happy.
Yeah, yeah.
Are you doing more like a painting or,you know, charcoal pencil or just like,
all right, I just rotate because ayou get burned out of the same, you know?
(29:25):
Yeah. Like, I just moved studios from L.A.
to the city of Pomona, and,
this new studio is, like, huge.
So I'm trying to do bigger paintings.Oh, okay.
So, like, now my painting isI'm doing a series of five paintings
that I haven't shownI nothing, but they're about this size,
you know, maybe half of the booth big,you know what I mean?
Yeah.
And, so, yeah,I'm gonna concentrate on that this coming
(29:48):
year, you know, and,
and, just for me, once again,you know, having to show nothing but
but he's going tothey're going to be super cool.
Yeah, yeah.
Is oil is this is this you're joininga group of artists or is this just you?
It might be just you. Yeah.
I been by myself,for the past seven years.
I've been having a private studio.
I, I was, partner with somebody,
(30:10):
Tony in Long Beach for 13 years.
Ink Assassins, Long Beach.
Okay, I and, you guys goshould go get tattoo over there.
That's my hometown.
Yeah. And, but, I went solo.
I just needed that space.
But I was in la.
La got super bad, you know,
traffic, homeless,you name it, the economy.
(30:32):
So I moved to a different city, which is,
40 minutes closer to my house.
Okay.
And I got almost triple the space
for the same amount of money,so it's like a no brainer.
So now I'm able to paint bigbecause I have triple the space,
and I'm still just being by myselfright now.
I mean, so, but I do have a guest artist,you know, I have,
(30:55):
I have a couple of guest artistslined up coming, you know. Yeah.
And they're nice, too.
So I guess with that type of movethat doesn't
really affect your clientele at all,whether they go into LA or whether they.
Yeah.
No, when I first moved to LA, to L.A.,I was a bit scary, you know, because L.A.
people we know travel and how you get.
So they're like, no,you know, they're lazy, but they're like,
(31:15):
I'm not going to drive an hourwhen it's only ten miles away.
Yeah, I know, but, but yeah,they're I get to tap them like, dude, you
it's it's only one day, so I need to driveevery fucking day on earth.
They're like, oh, fine.
Now you make me feel like a day,
So you have to, like, reverse psychologyanyway.
And he works, you know, butit doesn't affect me a lot because I have,
(31:36):
most of my clients,they they fly in regardless.
So, you know. Right.
I know the great thing about the studiowhere I'm at is that, it's 50 minutes
away from the Ontario airport,so it's very accessible.
You don't have to fly into L.A.like how they used to.
So it's like, well, this is cool.You know?
They love it there.
Yeah, I love and Mark, what percentage ofyour clients do you think travel versus.
(31:57):
They're fairly local.
I think about, a good 80.Oh wow. Oh yeah.
A good idea.
You know, because L.A., L.A.,they're still very strong with their
with their roots, which is, black and gray, super nice, grey wash
style, Chicano style in a and,
they're very We still rooted with them,you know what I mean?
So is is harder to get a client to.
(32:17):
Good tattoo over there, you know?
So, when I do conventions,I would in California,
it's like I only booked, like,one person that double check me out.
I'm like, bro,
but I know already, you know, I mean,but when I come here to the East.
Yeah, it's like everybody oneswork, you know, because.
But it's because I thinkbecause of the roots of that, you know.
Yeah. it’s interesting.
(32:37):
we so locals are very and which is great.
You know, I'm like I'm happyyou know. Yeah.
But it's not so good inthe has big though the the father get more
dark should you knowI don't want to do a Virgin
Mary or I want to do the,the the fucking, Bernini statue.
You name it. Yeah, yeah.
But, at the same time, if money gets realtight, I'll do it this year, you know?
(32:58):
But but unfortunately,they don't come to me for that
anymore, you know, by, like,did you work in that style or early on?
And, I mean, it's it's like,almost like a
if you're from L.A., it'skind of like you have to. Yeah.
Because the people that come in, you walk,if you work at a walking shop,
it's like your daily bread,
you know, like you have to learnhow to do the roses in the nice
(33:18):
transition of shades and area and,the whole statue,
it is like, yeah, I've done it, you know,and, and I and and I'm very proud
with the accomplishmentthat I do, you know.
But when that happen or it
happens still sometimesI just feel like I went to work.
Sure that.
All right, here's my artist hat on.
I'm gonna put my tattooer hat on. Right.
(33:40):
And let's fucking tattoowhatever you want. Yeah.
For the the feeling of accomplishment atthe end is not there.
Just a great job. That's it.
But the artistic element of it is like,Fuck, I wish you would have let me fucking
turn that Jesus faceinto the fucking the textures and yeah,
yeah, but, yeah, yeah, but yeah,it's like a, you must in a way in LA
(34:02):
because to the traffic that,that it's involved in that, in that,
on those areas, you know,
I mean everybody one says likeI notice up here in the, like right
here, it's just in this conventionitself, 90% is color.
Yeah.
If I'm mistaken, I think they only enterlike six pieces for black and grey.
It's crazy. I'm like, with this,
you got I y'all.
Because this is, like,like 200 people in black and gray.
(34:24):
Yeah.
You know,and then there where gets is like,
whoa, that motherfucker got it broAnd he was me.
Like super clean, you know.
Yeah. Right. And colors over there.
This is the opposite.
And it was likeoh three pieces were fucking colored.
Yeah.
So I guess it depending on the areaand I notice those things, you know,
it is strange and it's, you know, it'sa, I guess partially east west,
but I, there's a showthat's kind of close to me
(34:45):
that I've been doing furthersince they started, called Space City.
And it's in Huntsville, Alabama.
And, and it's like,like you're saying on the West Coast,
like I've judged there and like,I would rather judge the color categories
because there's only like ten of them.
But if you get caught upin, like black and gray,
especially large scale
black and gray, first off,like all of the pieces are flawless.
So it's like you can't pick the best one.It's impossible.
(35:06):
And there's like,
you know, 75 of them are like,well, we'll be here for three hours.
Yeah. It's terrible.
I know the but it.
Yeah,I mean it is that's, that's how I see em.
Yeah I mean but yeah I would imaginebut working you know,
it being forced to work in thatstyle, especially early on.
Probably built theskill set that you use a lot now, though.
(35:28):
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
I mean, it help.
I mean, for sure, it's like my, I, I keep it in, in between,
like, like real saturated and not.
And I mean, yeah,because of that early style, you name it,
it's like I'm, I'm used to seeing, like,directness of the fucking skin being,
you know, the saturated,but it's almost blood.
Anything.But I know it's going to kill this tone.
(35:49):
Yeah. See what I mean?
So I use those other elementsin my tattooing
elements, not just straight off blackand just highlights.
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Because we know what happens with that.You know.
So that's why I but yeah, I'm
very highly into influenced by the,by the LA style.
You know, I just don't do the styleI no more the technique.
(36:10):
All right. Now L.A. style.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Talking about it becoming And sorry,anyone who here's the main stage.
We're just stuck close to the main stage.
Talking about feeling like
you went to work rather than you don'tget the artistic kind of, gratification.
At the end of the day,I feel that way about anything symmetrical
I that I have to do it for, like, I,I only do larger scale stuff these days,
(36:34):
but if it has to look the same onboth sides,
if I have to look and see,like what I did here
and then try to like,pay attention over here, it ruins my day.
I'm terrible.
I know, right.
And it feels like you want to work,you know?
Yeah.
Which is good, because we have a great jobat the same time, you know?
But, but, yeah,I think at the end, there's more.
We're looking for a little like, fuck,I did that role, you know, that's boy.
(36:55):
You know, you just keep lookingat the fucking picture.
You do itand you scroll and you zoom and you.
And then for hours, you know.
So even my why is the whatthe way you fucking phone all day.
I'm like. So the tattoo I did last weeks.
You you staring at the fuckingtattoo were at for Damien.
But it's
it's that little meat,you know, from an artist like this.
(37:16):
Yeah. You know.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely.
So this is probably. Okay.
They start shutting down.
Okay,so from here, you're headed back home.
You'll be home for how long?
And what's your next kind of trip?
From here, I'm going home.
I'm going to relax.
I'm flying back to New York, to do a guest spot on my friend's
shop, a Philip Lee statuein Manhattan with the old church.
(37:39):
And you all. So muchfor being a part of this.
I mean, I'm still debating.
I want to go to the,the Josie's, Puerto Rico convention.
Okay. Yeah, I want to do that.
And I do it on that one.
Before I did the I don't rememberwho was a first or second edition.
Okay. It was really nice.
You know, it brings up all these,
(38:00):
real respectful, collectors.
You know, it's a great convention herebecause that's what I've heard.
They know.
They know what it's about.
You know, it's a great convention.
I haven't been able to go to thisin December.
You know, you always have, like, familyflying in and all of these.
It's like my son's birthdays.
Is the windows back in there,so it's hard to get away, you know?
But, but I did the firstor second edition, I don't remember, but,
(38:23):
hopefully I, I'm going to try
to make monster girls, you know, and,
next year, hopefully it's, I think I'm,I'm going to try to hit Asia.
Now, we go to a couple conventions,us and, and one in Europe, hopefully.
Romania. Wow.Yeah. Yeah, it's going to be.
Yeah, that'd be awesome.Yeah. That's great.
(38:44):
Yeah I I've, I've wanted toI don't know Yallzee
I've met and podcast with Fibs before whoI guess support for that as well.
And I he's a great guy, awesome tattooerand so I love to I love to check it out.
But that's the same problem.
It's like my fit. Like.
That's right.
I'm between Thanksgiving and Christmas andI just there's just too much happening.
Just the dates, you know?
I mean, it's like it's an itis it's a great convention.
I mean, he's, he's put together by byand by Yallzee you know,
(39:07):
and I mean, he'sa great, respectful collector
and he loves the fucking industry, I thinkmore than some tattooers, you know.
Right.
And he knows about the history of it.
And, and so it's put together by a realfucking guy that loves this community.
Yeah. I mean, and
it's a community, not industry.
You see it, I mean I so I'm like,but for the fucking dates, well,
(39:29):
why don't you do it in Octoberor you know.
Yeah, but, but, you know, in a good site,it's like if you go in December
over there,it's like the is warm and go, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
But he has his own reasons I don't know.
But that's the reason why.
Yeah yeah yeah I understand.
Well man I enjoy it.I'm glad we got to catch up.
It feels like I haven't seen youin a long time, but I give up. Oh, no.
(39:50):
Because the whole fucking.
Yeah, because the Covid and all that,we just shut everything down for so long.
Yeah.
Like I was saying, walking up, like,
just podcasting way in person is like,it feels like brand new to me again.
It's so much better.
So much better. Here. We're like,yeah, yeah.
I want to like, go find everyonethat we podcast with virtually and like,
hey, I'm going to come to your shopand do this in person.
(40:11):
I would rather yeah.Also you're doing that, going to shop.
So sometimes.
Yeah, I was super dope.
Yeah, yeah I listen I I really,I enjoy that we can control the sound
and the light a lot better.
You can like,
you know, you're not trying to grab peoplein between tattoos, so yes, we can.
It's nice.
Maybe tattoo a couple of daysand then everybody in the area.
(40:31):
You're welcome to my studio,bro. Man. Hey, do you mind?
I'll take you to tattoo or whatever. Yeah,I mean sweet.
Yeah, I really do amazing tattoos, so.
Well, if you're ever in the L.A.
area, you know,Pomona is in the L.A. County.
Okay, so, But, yeah. Boom!
Mikasa to man. Thank you.
I appreciate it, dude.I enjoyed it. And good to see you.
Thank you. Yeah.Thank you guys for supporting what we do.
We'll see you next time.
(40:52):
Oh yes.
Thanks so much to EdgarThanks so much to Jesse
Smithfor having us out to Richmond this year.
And thanks to youfor watching this episode.
I hope that you got some value from it.
You can keep up with Edgarat all of the links below.
What else? I think that's all.We'll see you next time. Thanks.
Hey there,everybody. Welcome to the fireside.
My name is Jake.
Happy to have you back for another episode
from the Richmond Tattooand Arts Festival.
Of 2024.
This is a fun one.
This one is with our buddy Edgar Marquez.
Edgar.
We first podcast with Edgarquite a few years back
at the Evergreen Tattoo Invitational, which is a really fun show as well.
(00:22):
We haven't been out there in a while,
but that's where I first met Edgar,and we've crossed paths a lot since then.
Really, really love his tattooing.
He's got a very unique style and,his approach is really interesting.
So that's what we talked about a lotin this episode.
We talked about just his,his kind of loose approach to design
and how he refines his tattoos as he goesalong.
(00:44):
Talks about a lot of other stuff, too,but mainly this is a process oriented or,
like, drawing and tattootechnical stuff, focused episode.
So for those of you who are into thatkind of stuff, you should like this one.
Before we get started,it's cold outside right now.
You can tell if you're watching thisbecause I'm wearing, stocking cap.
But pretty soon it's going to be timefor the Fireside Yacht Club.
(01:06):
And if you have not been on a firesideyacht club trip, you should do this one
that's coming up this June.
I'm going to leave a link below,with Fireside Yacht Club.
It is is,
I bring along five tattooers five artists.
You don't have to be a tattooer,but most of them are, five artists.
Come to my boat is a 43ft motoryacht in beautiful
(01:27):
Heber Springs, Arkansas on GooseFerry Lake.
If you don't like lakes, it'sbecause you haven't been to this one.
Crystal clear, big cliffs.
You can just ask the folkswho have already been.
It's really, really something special.You come out for about four days.
It is a great, great valuebecause it's all inclusive.
Your, your stay.
We stay at an Airbnb that is on eden islea very beautiful little area.
Right next to my Marina.
(01:48):
And then we walk downeach morning to the boat.
We spend the day drawing and paintingand swimming and jet skiing and,
you know, just relaxing on the boat.
My special guests for this upcomingFireside Yacht Club trip is Ande Chambers.
And if you've been following fireside
for any period of time,you definitely know Andy.
He is one of my favorite, illustrativestyle Tattooers working today.
He's going to come along with us
(02:09):
and he's going to be teachingsome of his illustrative stylings.
But yeah,I'm going to leave a link below.
Only five spots available.
So I'm sure it will go quickly.
If you have any questions, you canemail me Jake at Fireside tattoo.com
and ask,and I will be happy to get back with you.
What else?
I think that's it. Enjoy the episodeand I'll see you at the end.
(02:33):
Let's, let's kick it off.
We haven't done this in a while,so I'm just going to pretend I'm
sure some of the stuff we talk about,we talked about the last time
we podcasted, but it's been quitea few years doing quite very, good.
4 or 5 years, if not more. Yeah.
Yeah, I was up,so we'll just kind of start over.
Like we haven't, like we haven't done before.
I was in watching you tattoo yesterdayand I've seen it.
I mean, you show your processa lot on your social media and stuff,
(02:56):
but like how how loose you startand then how refined you,
you kind of end up like,you don't do a lot of, how often
do you use the stenciland prepare like, on the front end?
You know, within the past years,within the past years, it's been
less and less and less, you know,I guess, the clientele
are requesting me more like, just go wildyou know, it's it's cool.
(03:18):
We'll go free with it.
You know,I think that's part of the free hand.
And just be free with it, you know?
I mean, not, not just stencil this
and freehand this,you know, just go completely free with it.
And, how often like, pretty much there's, like,
almost my daily routine, you know, to a point where, like,
I don't even have a printerat the, at the, my studio.
(03:38):
Oh, wow. Oh, no.
So even even if, even if I,if somebody comes in with a stencil,
I'm like, I'm a free handed.
I don't care how it comes out.
You know,it could be a girl's face or whatever.
You know, obviously I don't doportrait work or none of that, you know,
but within my range of what I do itthe ever like.
Yeah. I'm not going to stencil shit,you know. Yeah, yeah.
Well it looks it looks to me like I mean,you work like general to specific.
(04:02):
So it looks like you're just blocking outbig sweeping shapes.
And then I guess from thereare you like kind of deciding like,
all right,
this is a darker shapeand that's a lighter shape
or like foregrounds, darkbackgrounds, light.
That's like that simple.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like for example, the piece yesterday,that was like a giant cover up
and, like a whole big, whole backbecause he had like, a back piece done.
(04:23):
And I just started a new one, pretty much.
So, that was actually I took, like aI flip the coin,
see how it comes out, hoping my customerwill come back because he flew into LA,
and we did, two sessions,and I just mapped it with opaque grays.
I didn't even put blacks
and I didn't put nothing,so it legit looked like a mess, you know?
But I know my process.
(04:43):
I was like, just hoping he will come back
so I could dothe cool stuff, you know? So
with itthis time, this second time around.
And he came back withdid the blacks and the actual detail,
you know, like all the texturesor the highlights or the,
the accent pointsand all this is super heavy lines.
No lines, you know what I mean?
So it's like a gamble.
(05:03):
You're not throwing your work out there.
Just been lookinglike I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm But yeah, it's a great turnoutin his turn out pretty good.
Yeah, well, I mean, I had no ideaI watched you a little bit yesterday
I didn't realize it was a cover up.I mean, I didn't get way up on it.
I wasn't in your booth.
But to me, it looked like the arrangementof dark and light shapes.
Like you.Like I saw what I was supposed to see.
Like you drove my eye,my attention to the center.
(05:25):
I wasn't paying attention to the stuffsurrounding it.
Says it, you know, it is prettymuch like the drawings, you know, like,
pretty muchyou need to create your focal points.
Yeah.
So I was saying, like, you drovethe attention to, like, the place that
that you want to drive attention toand distracted from the other area and.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'm pretty consistentto trying to stick to
(05:46):
what my drawing is, how I do my drawings.
You know, I always trying to create,
like, a super intense focal point,you know, like, regardless of size,
you know, it could be a giant backthese or, arm sleeve or exactly
whatever size, you know,could be a single piece.
I always trying to,
create that super heavy focal pointwith either with lines
or heavy outlines or blacks,you know what I mean?
And the rest of it is like,almost like I don't care, kind of,
(06:09):
you know what I mean?
Because it also helps to connect, like
future artists are going to connectto my pieces, leaving like the
the far ends of the tattoo are likesoft edged in a way.
That wayother people can connect real good.
And it looks great here.
I mean, yeah, instead of surroundingeverything with just black.
Yeah. So I mean so right.
So yeah, I justI put, I've put the attention to the main
(06:30):
focal points a lot like teeth, eyesand noses and stuff like that.
Yeah. In this case tentacles. But. Right.
Yeah I think that's somethingthe edges of tattoos
that it is neglected a lot,especially with a lot of darker stuff
like similar to what you do nowor even a lot of realism, color realism
that everyone kind of likejust saturates the edges out to nothing
and they just fall outand they don't give an end
(06:51):
for someone else to come in and grab itand move on with it.
You know, it's just like I youif I'm trying to do something,
I'm working up against this,like blob of background space.
And I'm like, I mean, I, you know,I can't do anything with it, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I startedI started thinking a lot like,
I don't know if I mentionedthe last time I interned in Oregon,
but I started thinking a lot like,I see the body, like, legit like a canvas,
(07:13):
you know?
And it's not, it's not about,oh, it's my piece.
And fuck the rest.
You know, I think about it, man.
His body will look betterif I can flow it to according Into what
the other pieces he has, you know,
like trying to think that little extraten minutes just to see what we can do
to connect that. Right.
So the whole canvas in generallooks good. Yeah.
You know, not just my piece, you know,but I want to he's back and he's.
(07:36):
And the arm that he already has connectedtogether somehow.
You know, either by color, by shapes,by flow, by negatives or whatever it is.
Okay. Yeah.
Yeah, I, I always think that it's easierto think that way
if someone has like an existing pieceand say there's a sweeping shape
on their shoulder
and I'm coming around their chest,that sweeping shape, I want to repeat it,
(07:56):
you know, because it's like, well,it's already there.
If I do it again, it'll look intentionaland it gives me a starting point,
like I'm not starting from nothing,you know?
Right. Yeah.
And it goes with the symmetry of the body,you know, like if you have.
Yeah.
Like you said, you have a movement
going up in your shoulderand your other shoulder is it's free.
I intentionally do that like tryingto make the same shape and flow into,
into your new shoulder, you know? Yeah.
(08:17):
Either with, with the main subject or,or a secondary subject, but
he's going to have that same he'sgoing to have like a symmetry
in your body,you know, and I think it looks super cool.
You know.
Yeah.
And, andand I mean we get that all from Filip Leu.
No I mean, but I was like, that'swhy it's important to, to look through
all the other times of tattooingregardless of is your style or not.
But it's good to observe.
(08:38):
You know what do itall those like legit like
masters are doing you all thatthey're real masters of tattooing.
That's why they do it, you know,and I think, we need to observe
and appreciate and execute the same,you know?
Yeah.
They have a reason, you know. Yeah.
Or a good way in aiming for you.
Thinks about all of that, you know,I mean, I'm pretty sure and
(08:59):
yeah, I think there iswe can do it in all other
elements, like not elementsin other styles, you know, it is.
So I'm trying to implement that.
You know, that movement and flow
and connecting to other existing piecesfor the rest of the body canvas.
Right, right.
Yeah.
So yeah, it's interestingbecause stylistically you're
you're pretty different from eitherFilip Leu or Jeff Gogue.
They have a very liketraditional type of style with that.
(09:20):
But those elements of like repeatingshapes are like
you even mentioned, like trying to usereally bold edges where you're
trying to focus attention,like in a very traditional tattoo manner.
Right? Yeah.
I feel likeit's like literally like the same
the same execution, just different style.
But it's like the same, like big,big shapes of shading, you know,
(09:41):
big shapes of black, big shape for,for or whatever, you know, and
but it's the same thing,which is different style, you know, but,
thanks to them, you know, it's Shige
you know, I, I rememberI drove eight hours from L.A.
to San Francisco, like 15 years agojust to see Shige tattoo.
And and he hit me.
You know,
I just drove that just to see him tattoofor two hours and drove by, you know?
(10:02):
Yeah.
And and he opened my mindto, like, oh, that's why you see
all these big open spaces of just shading,you know?
So I follow the fucking fish, looks Likeit wants to jump out of the back?
You see what I mean?
So that, you know. Yeah.
So that's why it's good to still creditthose kind of art is you name it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Talk about the, I mean, I watch your,
(10:25):
your you you have a lot of texture,a lot of, a lot of detail.
And I think as tattooers
a lot of times you get dialed inor we all get dialed in on
whatever area we're working onif we want to naturally, like,
draw attention to that area,like every area it can, it can be easy
to like, want to make every area importantand come forward.
But in your workthat would be or in anyone's why,
(10:46):
but in your work in particular,that would be chaos, right?
Very chaotic. Yeah. So so do you.
I mean, are you like, intentionally liketaking breaks, getting back, squinting,
looking at, like or what's your processfor thinking about that.
Yeah.Especially if it's like a big piece. Yeah.
You need to take your break,you know, step back,
really observe what's going onand and really make that call, like.
(11:07):
All right, I'm gonna leave it like that.
No more textures on this little areabecause the next layer next to it,
you know, it's already supersaturated with textures.
Or you can we can also do texturesbetter with the lighter tone.
This is what I'm so gradually it's, it'sgetting into a very like
super solid textures into like a darkand then accent it.
(11:31):
I don't know if you make sense knowlike yeah grey wash,
midtone, and black with highlightsand that's and it so it gives a transition
even out of textures,you know, not just all the same.
Yeah.
Pretty much.
Once againI go back to Japanese where because,
you observe when they dothe scales on the fish, you know what?
What's underneath the water?
(11:51):
You know, when the water comes in, they'relike light gray, you know what I mean?
And as he's coming towardsboard, there's more highlight in it.
First I start with white the blackand then thicker and thicker into a
I was like, fuck that fucking scale.So fake you I mean yeah.
And it was I think this would the same.
Once again I think is with the same, process and execution, you know,
just different style, you know,and, yeah, but yeah, I see what you see.
(12:15):
What you mean when it's a smaller piece,but obviously there's no
need to read or step back a couple steps,but you get to see it in.
Yeah. But but yeah.
Yeah I think that's an important wayto look I
so it's less about the amount of detail
or textureand more about kind of the value. Right.
Squeezing that out of your range. Right.
So you're only using the full value range
and the parts that you'rereally trying to drive people to.
You can essentially usethe same texture over here,
(12:36):
but you're just using you're squeezingthe value range with it. Exactly.
So the furtherhe goes into the edge of the tattoo,
the lighter he gets somehow or lessless lines and it less accents, you know?
Yeah. So, and that's what he gives you.
It makes it look like,you know, way more round,
you know, and it gives itmore sense of space and everything.
You know.
Right.
And, he's been working for me nowfor years. So.
(13:00):
Yeah. Yeah, it's been pretty cool.
Yeah, yeah.
Another thing that you're,that you do really well that I think is,
is particularly challengingis, is using them using color highlight.
So a color saturationbackground in a black and gray foreground.
So like when you're when you're primarythe subject matter is all black and gray.
But maybe it's backlit with a redor some type of a glowing thing.
(13:23):
And it can I think the easy the reasonthat's a challenge for a lot of people
is it's hard to see where an intense colorsits on the value scale,
but you don't know how dark or lightthat red is, you know, because it's red.
Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah.
Especially red since it's,the lighter values, you know,
no matter how dark you put it,unless you really have, like, go ahead.
But like, red tends to be on the lightervalues, you know, so
(13:45):
the is challenging but but also yeah,you need to have a sense
of where to put it, you know, I mean, notjust all over the fucking place.
You don't want to fuck upyour focal points or or you know, but,
but yeah, it's a very interestingto see where you put it.
That's why it's important to,to really observe all the art.
You know, in this case, I'm sorryif I just out naming, you know, but,
(14:06):
like, Victor Portugal was doing itfor, like, 20, but 20 something years ago.
You know, I rememberwhen he used to do these, like,
ocheryellows into his little subtle of color.
And I was like, oh, fuck.
But that's just about where he putit is like that little placement
on, I don't know, but like, on the jaw,you know.
Yeah, it was a straight up saying,look at my...
look at the teeth of this skull, you know.
(14:27):
So that's where it tracks your attention.
So I trying to do the same thing,you know, but and but yeah,
those are things that once againcomes from this guy that experimented.
I think we have it easier, all these newguys that came after that way
because we justwe're just executing what they did
in a different way,you know, in our own ways.
But but thanks to them,you know, that they, they brought that out
(14:48):
on like they open your braininto push more ideas out.
Yeah. You know. Right. So yeah. Yeah.
And I think that's, that's another big
trick of it is kind of learningwhere to where to put what to say.
The color in a black and gray tattoo.
Because if it's if it's, like, an ambient color
that's coming from the background,that's like that, you think, oh,
you should bathe forwardin the whole foreground,
(15:09):
but if you like, got that thing into yourforeground shape, it would destroy the.
Yeah.
Now you have to use reflective lightand all that shit. Now.
Now you beat turns into a color piece,you know? I mean, right?
That's why it's not cool to use
so much at the same time, you know, it'smainly to create contrast, you know, and,
and something a little bit,something different to see, you know,
because if you really go with itand you start using a lot and
(15:30):
I don't know where your backgroundreally turns into just color
now, you hope is you need to fuck aroundwith a lot of reflective lights
and then under lights and there, you know,it turns into a shit show, but.
Right.
But yeah, I, I keep it very subtleat the same time, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
What about, because you're doing,you know, long sessions.
You're building
a lot of texture, you know, in a singleand multiple passes in the same day.
(15:54):
What do you think?
Or how do you think about, a couple of things.
One, just like working the skin, keepingthe skin workable, not overworking it.
And then two, like,just client management, pain management
with like, this dude yesterdayall on his ribs.
Man. Yeah.
I mean, Bill,he he's a fucking tank, bro.
You know,he doesn't complain like you can.
(16:14):
You can set him uplike fucking upside down.
And you'd be like, fuck it.
This is what you have to do.You have to do it. You know what I mean?
So I'm so gratefulat times like that, you know?
But I always try to make it as comfortableas possible to, you know, like,
well, couldwe could get a pillow, you know,
I mean, Steve brought a pillowfrom his fucking room,
you know, like, you all bro,here's a pillow for your chest, you know?
And, but, like, in my studio is like,I have heating pads, and and I have, like,
(16:38):
extra cushion on my blanket,you know, by, like, those,
those foams,and they're, like, real fucking sick.
Oh, yeah.
So they later try to make itas comfortable as possible for them.
And he works, you know, and,and it's crazy to say that
because I saw Jeff at a conventionin Pasadena about ten years ago,
his guy,and he was, like, wrapped up in blankets,
except the leg that it was the battery byand I and those lights.
(17:02):
Yeah. You know, and it. Yeah.
I mean, there's nothing new, you know,it's just once again just observing what,
you know, what all these guys are doing.
Like I'm like,I ask the same question, you know, like,
how does he get his clientsto sit for so long, you know.
Oh yeah.
You obviously
you treat them good a comfortable spotor they're going to get tattoo you on it.
I mean,and I tend to do a lot of cold water.
(17:25):
I use a lot of cold water.
You know, and that's whyI have heating blankets to compensate.
Because, cold water.
I tend to see that becausethe redness away, you know, the swelling
away, you know?
And, so I always triedlike, in my studio, I legit
grab the water from my fucking fridge,order in my in my bottle.
You know, and it works.
Just plain distilled water, you know, whenit works, it works great, you know that.
(17:48):
But that's why they heated blankets.
So you don't want to do thathere, you know?
Right. That, but it works.
It works great for me, you know? Yeah.
We just did a, a podcast with a guy,a friend of ours,
and Kurt Jacobson who does threeThere's a lot of competition tattooing.
So he does three day projects for bestthe show.
And his big thing was like,you want to make sure the client, can,
(18:09):
like, have all the blankets they needand stripped down to their underwear
if they need to, if they want to bein their boxers with a beanie
on, like, the stocking cap on, like,you just want to make sure that
that they can, like, make changeson the fly for their own comfort.
Yeah. And I it's,Yeah, it's an interesting thought.
I've never, you know, I mean, I,I ask people if they're comfortable.
I'll change the heat in the studio,but I don't like,
(18:31):
prepare for, like,winter clothes and summer clothes.
Yeah.
I mean, that's a good thing about, in your studio, you can get,
you can get them as comfortableas possible.
Yeah.
Getting heaters and all that, you know,I don't know, fans/ACs, whatever,
you know, but, but, yeah,I mean, in this case, in conventions,
you can't you can't do that, you know?
So you have to rough it out. Yeah.
(18:52):
But do you go ahead.
Do you use any, like,topicals, like, like Bactine
or anything I use bactine you, but, almost like, at the end,
I notice in my clientsthat if I start using it
right since the beginning,they tend to, like,
depend on it, maybe moreso at the same time,
I feel like they build theirfucking strength, you know, mentally,
(19:14):
and they don't even need it.
You know, once again, like Bill,
you never ask for like on those two dayshe never asked for it or you got bactine?
or nothing like that, you know,which is sitting.
It was like,are you doing it like it sucks?
But, you know, I mean, but I'm ready.
You know, I'm like,you need to do ten hours till I'm ready.
I'm like, bro,
my bed can do an hour, you know?
Yeah. No, that's a rare client.
Once again, I think, I,I think I'm very lucky with those man,
(19:36):
those kinda clients here to me thatthey don't ask me for of that, you know,
but I do have back in on the sidejust in case, you know,
but at the end for highlights,you know, that's when I'm like,
all right, I'll give you a break.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, but yeah, I wonderI wonder if it has to do with your like
your look,
your style, like the type of clients you,that you draw in that they're just like,
I'm not tapping out, like, justthat type of person that's like, you.
(19:58):
I maybe draw in that type of client,you know?
I mean, yeah, I mean, this is this
your fucking guys are going to a bitwith fucking.
All these motherfuckers have spinesin their hands and the jackets, you know,
where they been through pain,you know, worst mania.
Like, I remember one of my clients,I think he went to
a, metal festival in Finlandor somewhere.
Where? There in Europe.
And he came back with the black eye
and a shitload of bruises on his backand body, you know, like he legit flew
(20:21):
in the day before the fucking like dude,What the fuck happened?
You got jumpedlike. Nah, I was in the pit ,
but he only lasted two hours.
That says, you know that nowyou're a star, bro. All right?
I get to fuck you up more.You it all right?
But I think he has a lot to dowith the year.
I mean, yeah, yeah, I know what's up.
But I also have my clients on there like,bro, this is that I can, you know, two,
(20:42):
four hours. Yeah. Oh I get it. You.
I can only serve for like six hoursat a time too, you know?
Right. Yeah, yeah.
Same here I, I struggle, over longand I'm,
I'm getting a full back, like neckto ankle back piece from Ande Chambers.
You know, Ande?
Yeah. Know.
But I can fly up in this areaand do back to back days.
You know, by the second.
(21:02):
I'm nearly 50 years old.
By the second day, like, my body hurts.
Even if I were not getting tattooed,
just being in the position for two daysor my body hurts, you know?
And so, Yeah, I mean, I, I, I get it, I,it's funny, you go years like for me,
I would go years
and I get tattooed and it's easy to forgetwhat you put people through, you know,
and then when you start getting tattooedyou're like, oh shit. Yeah.
No, it was I mean, you have to get tattoosso you can have some kind of a
(21:25):
sympathy towards.
I try and, you know,because sometimes you forget
and then they it's,it's a fucking organic. You
piece you're working on,
you know, it's not a piece of plastic or,you know, right.
It's something that it's aliveand it's such, you know.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like,
but yeah, I mean, you toughen up,you you learn how to tough up, you know,
you don't want to sound the
(21:46):
with the fucking pussy, you know,
and especially with that kind of youadmire so much, you know,
like Robert, he tattooed the inner pieceof my Robert Hernandez.
Yeah. That who the inner peace.
And it was like every ten minuteshe was like, you're good.
You want bactine?
I’m like naw, man I'm cool.
in my headI was like, fuck yeah. What am I doing?
You know,
I was like, all right, but not like,but you, you fucking tough up, you know?
(22:07):
And er, he also teach me to learn when,when the client
sometimes the client said no, I'm okay.
Just you don't want to sound like a pussy,but their body is asking for, you know.
So I learned to reach out to you.
Okay.
This area I'm going to use bactine,you know, I mean,
and when I see I'm more relaxed, I'm.
My eyes go right here.
I mean, you see it when they're when youhit the needle, they tense a little bit.
(22:28):
They're like, gets a little shaky,you know.
Yeah.
He needs bactine And you know whenthey don't they're just super relaxed.
You know all of thatwith time team. Right.
And sir and I assume going backto kind of the process
and a lot of the layering that you do,the cold water probably helps you
to read the skin a lotand know how far you're going to be. What.
Sure. Yes. Yeah.
Yeah.
Big because it just, the swelling comes down, you know, I mean,
(22:51):
I get to see the true value of the of the.
Yeah.
How the tattoo is going to achieve younaming. Right.
Are you from,just a technical standpoint, when you're,
you know, you're laying out big shapesand I assume you're using, like, I'm
just going to guess you're using, like,
maybe the big magsto start to sculpt shapes
and then coming upwith smaller configurations.
Or do you come in and like correctin lay in lines and stuff first a lot.
(23:12):
I, I use for if this is a big piece,
if it's like a project,I start with A55 magno.
Okay?
I do outline everythingwith my light tones.
I don't, I don't like, light lines.
I feel like, like right off the go.
You're hurting them like lights, you know?
So magnums are a little bit softer,you know, and I don't do an outline.
(23:35):
It's like I'm not cutting themopen. Right? It's just the beginning.
Because even if it's a water line,you still curve more.
And. Yeah.
So when I do a five Magnum is like,I'm already building something, you know?
I mean, yeah, I'm already building textureand whatnot, and I just pretty much draw
the shape of it, you know, and,and then I come back with the big Magnum.
It could be a 49or a 27, depending on the area.
(23:57):
The the big shape of mass,
the big, massive,
well, value, whatever value it is.
And then come back with detailwith the smaller needle.
You know, I usually useeither, for detail, I use either
a, liner, 11 or a nine. It.
Okay.
And then I go much smaller than I. Yeah,yeah.
(24:18):
And, people think I use round shaders,but I don't.
And because, I wonder these are to besuper sharp when he he'll still, you know.
Yeah, we all know that round shaders areit's more for a softer work.
So. But yeah.
And in between the 49 magnums
all the way down to the five,I use all of them depending on the area.
I'm like okay, this cool.
This little areais perfect for nine magnum
(24:40):
You know any or it’s is perfectfor a 50 mag.
You know, I, I Magnum,I love using 19 magnums
because it's like in betweenall of them, right?
You know what I mean?
So one of my favorites, you know, likeare you using curved or straight mags?
But I use only curve.
I was never a little fucking tattoowith a straight mag.
Yeah, yeah.
I discover very fast in my beginningof tattooing that I was hurting people.
(25:01):
Yeah, all I choose, I cad, you know,I don't have a sense of the angle.
Like you like a perfect angle for that.You know. Right.
And I would say fucking tattoo artistlike victor portugal,
like he uses those,you know, like fucking heal.
Perfect.
I'm a fucking I he, you know, and I,
just wasn't able to provide a good thingthat, there was another option.
So, you know.
Yeah, yeah, I didn't when I started, I
(25:23):
if there were curvemags, I had never heard of them.
Yeah, we just had flat mags and, andI can remember very early in my career,
when I started, it was a lot of tribal
lower back, butterfly,all that kind of stuff.
And so, you know, youryou line everything and then
and then I would come inwith the side of that mag
and try to get that, fill that taperand you would see like a little razor cut
like just I was slicingpeople like, oh, I always ask know.
(25:44):
Yeah, fucking well we sent them to scarbelow like, yeah.
And it'd be a fucking VIP ticket. Yeah.
Me. Right.
No. Later on said, that's not right.
You know I can't do that, right?Yeah, yeah.
Usually those little edges, those littletiny corners that were fucking scar below.
What happened with those magnums?Yeah, yeah.
And I have that thanks to that.
I admire people so much for that.
Regardless of style, what they do,people are able to use those.
(26:07):
It's like something to admire,you know, respect, you know, like, fuck,
I don't give a fuck if you did a butterfly, but if you did, that would if that.
I sorry.
Leave. Looks like that.
Yeah you do Yeah, but he's good to fine.
I mean, I'm pretty sure they wewe tried it and you would achieve it.
You know me,
but I was like, well, let me let me seewhat what else is out there, you know.
(26:28):
And and I got super comfortablewith the round magazine.
That's what I use and. Yeah. Yeah.
What about like, from a drawing,like just design standpoint.
I mean, obviouslypeople come to you for a certain thing.
Do you ever feel like.
All right, I'm kind of,like, burnt out on this subject matter?
Do you want to, like, how are you?
Are you ableto, like, introduce new, different
(26:49):
subject matters, different ideas,
or do you have any interestor do you just like to explore
the kind of textural like darker stuffthat you've been doing, right?
Well, in tattooing it's in enter
in the tattooing matter,it becomes repetitive.
You know, I mean, it becomes repetitiveno matter and no matter because people.
Exactly.
That's what they wantis that you can do the same fucking skull.
(27:10):
And people, if you did a real badass
skull, people are going to be like,I want something like that. Sure.
So and if you try to move away from thatdesign, they're like, no, I just
kind of want like this one, as I haveshown, I'm like, well, I skipped stairs.
You know what?
Some of them were like, whoa, I kind ofwant to more like the one you did before.
I'm like like like two years agoat the, Gods of Ink convention.
You know, I legitdid the fucking same demon.
(27:31):
Three days in a row.
Oh, I like the same face because I went inwith, I was booked, you know,
and I did my in my friend'shead with the demon face on a Friday.
The Saturday guy,I didn't know what he wanted.
He was like, yo, I want that same thingyou did on on me on the.
Okay, cool. You know, the Sunday.
You're that guy. You.
They don't fry one.
That's exact.
I'm like, oh fuck, I enjoyed it, but.
(27:54):
And I showed them something different.
He was like, well,how about we do like tentacles.
It will fit the body or like, more like the, okay.
You know, so it'skind of a move away from it, you know, but
in drawing and paintingand fucking with other subjects, you know,
I mean, I'm going back into, like, reallydrawing for me.
You know, I think I went a little bit, commercial in a way.
(28:16):
You could say more for the for the,the tattoo community,
but they like about me, you know?
But I was leavingbehind what I like about myself.
So I'm doing that in painting and drawing,and I've been reconnecting
with what I want for me now.
Now that I have some kind of a style,you know, I call it.
So now, like, okay, I'm drawing some cool.
I started to draw and paintmy travel experiences.
(28:39):
Wow. You know, that's in some of my sketchwork that I brought today.
I'm drawing like, like the the castle
gorillas in Switzerland,you know, with some elements of Giger.
And so I'm, like, mixing it real cool,but it's actually like a moment
in time that I was there that I'm drawing.
Yeah. So it's like legitjust for me. Yeah. I mean, right.
Or like the Barcelona
fucking, church, you know,you know, a Gaudi church or area, right?
(29:02):
Yeah. Gaudi church, you know.
So those little moments, I'mdrawing them now for me, you know,
and they're still, you know, I'm actuallypeople by some of those are like, dude.
Okay.
So but yeah, now I'm drawing for mea little bit more and I'm happy.
Yeah, yeah.
Are you doing more like a painting or,you know, charcoal pencil or just like,
all right, I just rotate because ayou get burned out of the same, you know?
(29:25):
Yeah. Like, I just moved studios from L.A.
to the city of Pomona, and,
this new studio is, like, huge.
So I'm trying to do bigger paintings.Oh, okay.
So, like, now my painting isI'm doing a series of five paintings
that I haven't shownI nothing, but they're about this size,
you know, maybe half of the booth big,you know what I mean?
Yeah.
And, so, yeah,I'm gonna concentrate on that this coming
(29:48):
year, you know, and,
and, just for me, once again,you know, having to show nothing but
but he's going tothey're going to be super cool.
Yeah, yeah.
Is oil is this is this you're joininga group of artists or is this just you?
It might be just you. Yeah.
I been by myself,for the past seven years.
I've been having a private studio.
I, I was, partner with somebody,
(30:10):
Tony in Long Beach for 13 years.
Ink Assassins, Long Beach.
Okay, I and, you guys goshould go get tattoo over there.
That's my hometown.
Yeah. And, but, I went solo.
I just needed that space.
But I was in la.
La got super bad, you know,
traffic, homeless,you name it, the economy.
(30:32):
So I moved to a different city, which is,
40 minutes closer to my house.
Okay.
And I got almost triple the space
for the same amount of money,so it's like a no brainer.
So now I'm able to paint bigbecause I have triple the space,
and I'm still just being by myselfright now.
I mean, so, but I do have a guest artist,you know, I have,
(30:55):
I have a couple of guest artistslined up coming, you know. Yeah.
And they're nice, too.
So I guess with that type of movethat doesn't
really affect your clientele at all,whether they go into LA or whether they.
Yeah.
No, when I first moved to LA, to L.A.,I was a bit scary, you know, because L.A.
people we know travel and how you get.
So they're like, no,you know, they're lazy, but they're like,
(31:15):
I'm not going to drive an hourwhen it's only ten miles away.
Yeah, I know, but, but yeah,they're I get to tap them like, dude, you
it's it's only one day, so I need to driveevery fucking day on earth.
They're like, oh, fine.
Now you make me feel like a day,
So you have to, like, reverse psychologyanyway.
And he works, you know, butit doesn't affect me a lot because I have,
(31:36):
most of my clients,they they fly in regardless.
So, you know. Right.
I know the great thing about the studiowhere I'm at is that, it's 50 minutes
away from the Ontario airport,so it's very accessible.
You don't have to fly into L.A.like how they used to.
So it's like, well, this is cool.You know?
They love it there.
Yeah, I love and Mark, what percentage ofyour clients do you think travel versus.
(31:57):
They're fairly local.
I think about, a good 80.Oh wow. Oh yeah.
A good idea.
You know, because L.A., L.A.,they're still very strong with their
with their roots, which is, black and gray, super nice, grey wash
style, Chicano style in a and,
they're very We still rooted with them,you know what I mean?
So is is harder to get a client to.
(32:17):
Good tattoo over there, you know?
So, when I do conventions,I would in California,
it's like I only booked, like,one person that double check me out.
I'm like, bro,
but I know already, you know, I mean,but when I come here to the East.
Yeah, it's like everybody oneswork, you know, because.
But it's because I thinkbecause of the roots of that, you know.
Yeah. it’s interesting.
(32:37):
we so locals are very and which is great.
You know, I'm like I'm happyyou know. Yeah.
But it's not so good inthe has big though the the father get more
dark should you knowI don't want to do a Virgin
Mary or I want to do the,the the fucking, Bernini statue.
You name it. Yeah, yeah.
But, at the same time, if money gets realtight, I'll do it this year, you know?
(32:58):
But but unfortunately,they don't come to me for that
anymore, you know, by, like,did you work in that style or early on?
And, I mean, it's it's like,almost like a
if you're from L.A., it'skind of like you have to. Yeah.
Because the people that come in, you walk,if you work at a walking shop,
it's like your daily bread,
you know, like you have to learnhow to do the roses in the nice
(33:18):
transition of shades and area and,the whole statue,
it is like, yeah, I've done it, you know,and, and I and and I'm very proud
with the accomplishmentthat I do, you know.
But when that happen or it
happens still sometimesI just feel like I went to work.
Sure that.
All right, here's my artist hat on.
I'm gonna put my tattooer hat on. Right.
(33:40):
And let's fucking tattoowhatever you want. Yeah.
For the the feeling of accomplishment atthe end is not there.
Just a great job. That's it.
But the artistic element of it is like,Fuck, I wish you would have let me fucking
turn that Jesus faceinto the fucking the textures and yeah,
yeah, but, yeah, yeah, but yeah,it's like a, you must in a way in LA
(34:02):
because to the traffic that,that it's involved in that, in that,
on those areas, you know,
I mean everybody one says likeI notice up here in the, like right
here, it's just in this conventionitself, 90% is color.
Yeah.
If I'm mistaken, I think they only enterlike six pieces for black and grey.
It's crazy. I'm like, with this,
you got I y'all.
Because this is, like,like 200 people in black and gray.
(34:24):
Yeah.
You know,and then there where gets is like,
whoa, that motherfucker got it broAnd he was me.
Like super clean, you know.
Yeah. Right. And colors over there.
This is the opposite.
And it was likeoh three pieces were fucking colored.
Yeah.
So I guess it depending on the areaand I notice those things, you know,
it is strange and it's, you know, it'sa, I guess partially east west,
but I, there's a showthat's kind of close to me
(34:45):
that I've been doing furthersince they started, called Space City.
And it's in Huntsville, Alabama.
And, and it's like,like you're saying on the West Coast,
like I've judged there and like,I would rather judge the color categories
because there's only like ten of them.
But if you get caught upin, like black and gray,
especially large scale
black and gray, first off,like all of the pieces are flawless.
So it's like you can't pick the best one.It's impossible.
(35:06):
And there's like,
you know, 75 of them are like,well, we'll be here for three hours.
Yeah. It's terrible.
I know the but it.
Yeah,I mean it is that's, that's how I see em.
Yeah I mean but yeah I would imaginebut working you know,
it being forced to work in thatstyle, especially early on.
Probably built theskill set that you use a lot now, though.
(35:28):
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
I mean, it help.
I mean, for sure, it's like my, I, I keep it in, in between,
like, like real saturated and not.
And I mean, yeah,because of that early style, you name it,
it's like I'm, I'm used to seeing, like,directness of the fucking skin being,
you know, the saturated,but it's almost blood.
Anything.But I know it's going to kill this tone.
(35:49):
Yeah. See what I mean?
So I use those other elementsin my tattooing
elements, not just straight off blackand just highlights.
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Because we know what happens with that.You know.
So that's why I but yeah, I'm
very highly into influenced by the,by the LA style.
You know, I just don't do the styleI no more the technique.
(36:10):
All right. Now L.A. style.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Talking about it becoming And sorry,anyone who here's the main stage.
We're just stuck close to the main stage.
Talking about feeling like
you went to work rather than you don'tget the artistic kind of, gratification.
At the end of the day,I feel that way about anything symmetrical
I that I have to do it for, like, I,I only do larger scale stuff these days,
(36:34):
but if it has to look the same onboth sides,
if I have to look and see,like what I did here
and then try to like,pay attention over here, it ruins my day.
I'm terrible.
I know, right.
And it feels like you want to work,you know?
Yeah.
Which is good, because we have a great jobat the same time, you know?
But, but, yeah,I think at the end, there's more.
We're looking for a little like, fuck,I did that role, you know, that's boy.
(36:55):
You know, you just keep lookingat the fucking picture.
You do itand you scroll and you zoom and you.
And then for hours, you know.
So even my why is the whatthe way you fucking phone all day.
I'm like. So the tattoo I did last weeks.
You you staring at the fuckingtattoo were at for Damien.
But it's
it's that little meat,you know, from an artist like this.
(37:16):
Yeah. You know.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely.
So this is probably. Okay.
They start shutting down.
Okay,so from here, you're headed back home.
You'll be home for how long?
And what's your next kind of trip?
From here, I'm going home.
I'm going to relax.
I'm flying back to New York, to do a guest spot on my friend's
shop, a Philip Lee statuein Manhattan with the old church.
(37:39):
And you all. So muchfor being a part of this.
I mean, I'm still debating.
I want to go to the,the Josie's, Puerto Rico convention.
Okay. Yeah, I want to do that.
And I do it on that one.
Before I did the I don't rememberwho was a first or second edition.
Okay. It was really nice.
You know, it brings up all these,
(38:00):
real respectful, collectors.
You know, it's a great convention herebecause that's what I've heard.
They know.
They know what it's about.
You know, it's a great convention.
I haven't been able to go to thisin December.
You know, you always have, like, familyflying in and all of these.
It's like my son's birthdays.
Is the windows back in there,so it's hard to get away, you know?
But, but I did the firstor second edition, I don't remember, but,
(38:23):
hopefully I, I'm going to try
to make monster girls, you know, and,
next year, hopefully it's, I think I'm,I'm going to try to hit Asia.
Now, we go to a couple conventions,us and, and one in Europe, hopefully.
Romania. Wow.Yeah. Yeah, it's going to be.
Yeah, that'd be awesome.Yeah. That's great.
(38:44):
Yeah I I've, I've wanted toI don't know Yallzee
I've met and podcast with Fibs before whoI guess support for that as well.
And I he's a great guy, awesome tattooerand so I love to I love to check it out.
But that's the same problem.
It's like my fit. Like.
That's right.
I'm between Thanksgiving and Christmas andI just there's just too much happening.
Just the dates, you know?
I mean, it's like it's an itis it's a great convention.
I mean, he's, he's put together by byand by Yallzee you know,
(39:07):
and I mean, he'sa great, respectful collector
and he loves the fucking industry, I thinkmore than some tattooers, you know.
Right.
And he knows about the history of it.
And, and so it's put together by a realfucking guy that loves this community.
Yeah. I mean, and
it's a community, not industry.
You see it, I mean I so I'm like,but for the fucking dates, well,
(39:29):
why don't you do it in Octoberor you know.
Yeah, but, but, you know, in a good site,it's like if you go in December
over there,it's like the is warm and go, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
But he has his own reasons I don't know.
But that's the reason why.
Yeah yeah yeah I understand.
Well man I enjoy it.I'm glad we got to catch up.
It feels like I haven't seen youin a long time, but I give up. Oh, no.
(39:50):
Because the whole fucking.
Yeah, because the Covid and all that,we just shut everything down for so long.
Yeah.
Like I was saying, walking up, like,
just podcasting way in person is like,it feels like brand new to me again.
It's so much better.
So much better. Here. We're like,yeah, yeah.
I want to like, go find everyonethat we podcast with virtually and like,
hey, I'm going to come to your shopand do this in person.
(40:11):
I would rather yeah.Also you're doing that, going to shop.
So sometimes.
Yeah, I was super dope.
Yeah, yeah I listen I I really,I enjoy that we can control the sound
and the light a lot better.
You can like,
you know, you're not trying to grab peoplein between tattoos, so yes, we can.
It's nice.
Maybe tattoo a couple of daysand then everybody in the area.
(40:31):
You're welcome to my studio,bro. Man. Hey, do you mind?
I'll take you to tattoo or whatever. Yeah,I mean sweet.
Yeah, I really do amazing tattoos, so.
Well, if you're ever in the L.A.
area, you know,Pomona is in the L.A. County.
Okay, so, But, yeah. Boom!
Mikasa to man. Thank you.
I appreciate it, dude.I enjoyed it. And good to see you.
Thank you. Yeah.Thank you guys for supporting what we do.
We'll see you next time.
(40:52):
Oh yes.
Thanks so much to EdgarThanks so much to Jesse
Smithfor having us out to Richmond this year.
And thanks to youfor watching this episode.
I hope that you got some value from it.
You can keep up with Edgarat all of the links below.
What else? I think that's all.We'll see you next time. Thanks.
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