Episode 322: Catcher Preview

After some Very Important Weather Talk we dive into a position with both promise and disappointment (often embodied in the same player). We compare and contrast early-round young bucks Adley Rutschman and Yainer Díaz, debate what might be left in the tank for Sal Perez and J.T. Realmuto, identify an off-brand Cal Raleigh who might be better than the original, and comb through the lower tiers for players who might not totally fill you dread and sadness.

Flags Fly Forever is a Baseball Prospectus podcast. For more fantasy baseball information, visit baseballprospectus.com and click on "Fantasy."

You can find Flags Fly Forever on Bluesky (@flagsflyforever.bsky.social). The hosts of Flags Fly Forever are Mike Gianella(@mikegianella.bsky.social) and Jon Hegglund(@jonhegglund.bsky.social). The producer of Flags Fly Forever is Jon Hegglund. 

Special thanks to the awesome and generous Petite League for permission to use their track "Mets" for the intro and break music. Find their sweet lo-fi indie-pop sounds at petiteleague.com. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Welcome to episode three twenty two of Flags Fly Forever,
a baseball prospective fantasy baseball podcast. I'm Mike Gianella, and
with me, as always is John Haglund.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hello.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Mike? Am all right?

Speaker 1 (00:42):
You know, just the I want to say, same old,
same older. There's a lot going on, but I think
we'll keep that off to the side and focus on
fantasy baseball.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
But how are you?

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yeah, I'm good. I'm sick of winner already sick. I
want to ask you. I just thought of this, like,
rank the four seasons in terms of your your preference.
How would you rank the four seasons?

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Well, fall, fall, in spring. I don't really like the
heat either. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
It's funny because I would have said winter over summer,
and I think i'd still say that, But as I
get old, they're they're closing in. So I'll go fall, spring, winter, summer.
Huh Okay, I'm not a summer person. I'm a I'm
I'm cabin over the beach for one thing, Like, give
give me a cabin with a fire and over like
the beach. But I know a lot of people love

(01:35):
the heat. The only thing, too, is if it's if
it's If it's one hundred degrees, I'm sweaty, I'm miserable.
If it's you know, ten degrees, I can wear a
million layers and look like the Michelin man and it's
not pleasant.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
But there's ways around.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
That, all right, I got you.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah, I know I'm in the I know, been the minority.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
I think a lot of people would take the summer
over over the winter.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
I think it relates to did you grow up in
a place that it has high humidity? And I think
those people don't don't like the summer. Where is that?
I you know, from the West coast, I although the
summer's the summer's you know, near the coast in California,

(02:20):
and really the whole West are often quite quite foggy.
You get that that marine layer.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, I mean before we moved to the podcast. We'll
talk this forever, but I you know, I've teling this
at length. Like my first trip to the well I
went to California, but my first trip to Arizona in
two thousand and three for spring training, I just remember
like how eye opening it was.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
It was. It was March.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
You know, it's like typically seventy seventy five degrees but
you're like, oh, this is really pleasant, Like this isn't
like the northeast or seventy five degrees, and already the
grossness is creeping in a little bit.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
I like the way you subtly turned that to baseball, So.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
That wasn't my intention, but I did do it.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
Now you're a pro, so top pros work. And tonight
we're going to do our positional preview for catchers, which
at BP has been moved from the leadoff spot, as
it were, to the number two hole. And you know,

(03:20):
you got a little taste of first base, and now
we try to slip in a position that the fewer
people are excited about. But we are going to talk
about catchers. Your Tears article is going to go up
next Monday, Tuesday.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Actually Wednesday, because Monday the site is dark for.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yes, right, but we're going to give you so as
you're listening to this, we are releasing on Friday, before
the three day weekend, and we are going to go
through the tears. And I don't know if there's anything
else you want to say to introduce the tears a catcher.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Well I will.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
I'll just want to say about the position in general.
I know some people have grown about it and roll
their eyes, but the strategically approaching the position is interesting,
even if some of the players aren't interesting. I will
also say catcher ebbs and flows, and I feel like
for relative to the position, we're at a good place
with it, particularly.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
At the top.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Like you know, it used to be for years it
was kind of like Mike Piazza a couple other guys,
and then it was like, oh, like do I have
to and I feel now there and we'll get into
this in a minute, but there's at least a handful
of names like oh, like this guy's interesting, or this
guy could be really good, or you know, should should
I How should I approach my draft in terms of

(04:42):
one or even two early picks at catcher versus.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Weighing that later. Well we'll get into that.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
So yeah, yeah, I mean I think it's pretty interesting
this year. I think last year there was maybe a
lot of optimism because there were quite a number of
catchers that were on the cusp of you know, full
playing time as as rookiees aer or relatively young players.
Some were some were disappointments, and so there might be

(05:08):
a sense that the position is not as robust, but
I think it's actually a pretty pretty solid you know,
historically compared to other seasons. And we're talking about mainly
two catcher leagues here, a lot of the pain and
anguish over drafting catchers is just eliminated if you're in

(05:29):
a one catcher league. So we are approaching this this
position mainly from the perspective of of two catcher leagues.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
So I mean, that's that's that's strategically interesting too, But
I would agree guess that that's a whole different ballgame
if you're talking about, you know, one catcher versus two catcher,
and we generally do focus on two catcher. So should
we get started. I know we can introduce this forever,
but let's let's do that. So, as I'm before, there

(06:00):
are no five star players. Typically that's the first two
rounds of a draft. I did not rank any players
in that tier. However, there was debate and discussion about
ranking a catcher in that tier, and I'll get into that.
As I introduced the four star catchers. There are five
of them, and this is the catchers ranked with between

(06:23):
the third and sixth rounds, and they are William Contreras,
Adley Rushman, Andr Diaz cal Rawly and Wilson Contreras.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
So I mean spoiler alert, I think.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
We know which one of those catchers is going in
the second round and perhaps deserves consideration to do so.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
I mean, maybe you can quickly run down the debate
that you had over William Contreras. So he is ADP.
I've got the last fifty one draft Champions drafts, so
I don't know if you have the same. That's what
I have too, Yes, okay, so we got twenty five
point sixty three eighty P. So just inside it's where

(07:02):
the end of the second round. So the market likes
William Contraras in the five star tier. You don't quite
You're not quite there.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
For him, well, the argument for him, I think is
the idea that he's he is the best catcher at
the position. I don't think there's a serious argument for
I know, you know there's variants, but in terms of
what we expect only it's a serious argument for the
catchers behind him to overtake him. So it is that
conceptual thing like, well, there's nothing wrong with paying for

(07:35):
the scarcity and getting the reward of the best catcher
in the game. And I respect that. I think that's fine.
Like I have him ranked as a third round player,
So it's not like I'm like absolutely not like this
is a terrible decision. It's more of a strategic decision
where I'm kind of like like, okay, like let's uh,
you know, let's take a beat here, and I think

(07:58):
there's things I'd rather do in this second round that
then take my primary catcher. And the other piece too,
I know you said to make the argument four make
the argument against uh. The other piece too is you know,
when you look at Terre's numbers, they're they're great, and
then you know the volume in particular and runs and
runs batted in and the positive average is all great.

(08:18):
But he's not like a thirty plus home run guy.
He's not even real Muto with the steels. He had
nine last year. Real Muto's peak, you know, had a
lot more than that. I just don't see a particularly
special carrying tool besides the volume.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
So I get it. I have nothing against it.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Like if you take Anturia's the second round, I don't
think that you're making a mistake. It's more just not
something I want to do.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
I think if you're at the wheel at the two
three wheel. I mean, I think it's you know, that
would be a few picks behind ADP and then you know,
I would take I would take a long, hard look
if he's if he's there, because and I think the
you know, you said that the main argument is the volume,
and I think you know, the argument actually is the volume.

(09:06):
Like that's that's the big argument. Is you know, someone
who essentially plays more than than just about any other catcher.
You know, he he does, he does give you that
that floor. I mean, and if you look at like
his his remarkably consistent going back to you know, his
first full year in Atlanta, you just see a very

(09:29):
very steady, you know, categories of production there. So yeah,
I mean, clearly clearly ahead of the pack. And I
guess the question is just how far ahead of the pack.
But I'm not one to generally take a catcher in
the second round or even at the beginning of the third.
So you know, he's there. We all know he's good,

(09:50):
and maybe there's more interesting questions later in this in
this year.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah, I would agree. I don't think there's much debate
with him. This is a philosophical thing, you know. One
thing Before we move off of this, I point out
the pass like if if you look at projections, taking
contrarasts and in a twenty three round draft like an
outfielder like a generic twenty third round outfielder versus taking

(10:14):
a second round outfielder and a generic catcher at the
end is about the same statistically and value wized more
or less. So in theory like he fits like, he's fine,
and I would guess if you look at the evaluation models,
he's actually a slight bargain in the second round. It's
just the variance at the position, particularly given that it's
an injury heavy position. This is not a commentary and Contrera,

(10:38):
it's just the position in general makes it more of
a risk. And I think it would be any other
second round hitter. So that's that's really it. If you
want to take him there, it's fine. I think it
just is a matter of your risk tolerance in general,
not with Contrera specifically. So you know the rest of
these hitters here since I started out, I don't know

(10:58):
if there's anyone in particularly you want to talk. I mean,
you should probably have all these guys since the four
start tiers. They particularly you want to like yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
I mean, well, the way I want to frame it
is that ADP has Jiner Diaz about ten picks ahead
of Ali Ruchman. In the kind of you know, rough
draft of my ranks. I also had Diaz as two
in Rechman is three. You have rechmend ahead of Diaz.
So I'm just curious, like how close. I'm sure they're

(11:25):
pretty close for you, but what you're thinking with Retchmand
over Daz.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Uh, Well, I think some of it is that, and
you're right, they are very close to me, but and
it's just I really just sort of have them.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Let's see.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
So, yeah, they're about ten picks apart. I'm pulling out
my rankings as we speak just to see if I
have them like comparably in the other direction. Yeah, I
have them about ten picks apart, just the other way.
And really, I think when it comes down to Rushman
was great.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
In the first half.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
He was playing through like a nagging I think was
a thumb injury, but I know it was a hand
injury of some sort.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
In the second half, he.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
And the Orioles both said that's not why his production
went down. But honestly, it's really hard to think that
that wasn't the case. Teams and players especially never liked
this to blame the injury.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
So I see some bounce back.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
No, I don't think he's going to hit like, you know,
thirty five forty home runs, but I see some improvement.
He's just a heck of a hitter and Diaz nothing
really against him, and the separation is just more draft philosophy,
not really positional philosophy. I see Diaz bouncing back, maybe
a little bit, but less likely to hit more home runs.

(12:39):
And I don't trust average in general when an average
is that high to like kind of stick at that level.
So if Diaz is more of a like two eighty
two eighty five hitter, I look at him like, yeah,
it's still really good, but the power really needs to
come across. This is a nippicky thing. You could flip
them and I'd be fine with it. I will say
I've heard some people really pushing back on Rushman.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
That I don't agree with.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
I still see the potential for him to be the
number one catcher this year. Like, if there's somebody besides
contrast that, I'm like, yeah, at the end of the
year he's number one. I can Rushman's the guy go with.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Yeah, I noticed in Rushman and I don't know if
he changed his approach because of the injury, but it's
pretty big jump in fly balls, which is not great
for him because he does not hit the ball terribly hard.
So I wonder if you know, it feels like his
natural profiles a little more of a line drive. All

(13:37):
fields kind of hit her and where you'd see the
average go up, and you know the I think he's
probably around a twenty homer low twenties at best guy. So,
but he's I think if he's healthy, he's just such
a great all around player, which means he's gonna be
in the lineup every day, and you know, he's a

(13:58):
he's a very very talented hitter. With with Diaz, I
think like Steamer has the average around to eighty. I
think that's pretty fair, and with Diaz it's kind of
the opposite thing. He gets way too many ground balls,
and you know, the last thing you want is a
catcher relying on babbit, you know, right, Well, yeah, I

(14:20):
see the I see the average falling back, but I
think getting that kind of still a plus average and
getting that average from your catcher spot with I think,
you know, solid power is definitely a pretty valuable thing
to get in the top you know, seventy five picks.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Well, you know, it's weird and we'll talk about this,
but I you know, we taught us like we were
texting us about different player. But last year is all
and on Diaz, I really liked him. I thought the
market was a bit too conservative. This year is just
less I don't like the player and more that I
look at the price.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
That I'm like, well, yeah, I don't really know if
I like.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
Him as a late fourth round pick, I'd prefer him
in the fifth round. And it's it's similar to contrarasts.
It just means I'm I'm not like, no, he stinks,
don't take him. It's like, yeah, it's just a price thing,
and it just means I probably won't get him unless
I'm in a league where people are really conservative with
with catchers, which those.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Les exist like that.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
That's one thing too, Like these are all at FBC.
Like overall component type draft prices, I've noticed not so
much as with closers, but I've noticed that catcher prices
in other formats are more conservative. So just be aware
of that as we talk about this in ADP that
you know, in your league, the ADP probably will be lower.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
Then we've got Ralli and Wilson Contraras you know, at
one time the greater contrarast, but now the lesser contrasts,
and we're just talking about I'm not speaking about them personally,
I don't know. So, yeah, Raleigh seems to me it's
it's sort of like he's really established both his strengths

(15:56):
and his weaknesses. You're getting, you know, the pluses, you're
getting around thirty homers. The downside is that you're getting
a pretty you know, an average is probably going to
be in the two twenties to two thirties. You know,
he does he does hit in the heart of the
a Mariner's lineup that is you know, bad park, but

(16:20):
he still manages to, you know, to the power still plays.
And Wilson Cantreras maybe is more interesting because he is
moving positions, so we're expecting a more of an everyday
role because he doesn't he won't be subject to the
rigors of catching every day or most days. So we

(16:42):
talked a little bit about Wilson Contreras and you know,
I think we are well, you I think express some
hesitancy about translating that increased playing time to increased productions.
So I don't know if you want to say a
little bit about that.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, I do, and I'll just say I don't have
much to add about Raley. I will just say that
I've typically been a verse of these types of low
average players, regardless.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Of the other skills.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
But I think between the position and the power, I'm
not like, I'm kind of willing to take the plunge
and just kind of cross my fingers that he doesn't,
you know, pull a Kyle Schwerber twenty twenty three and
hit one ninety. But if he doesn't do that, I'll
I'll just take the average, especially at this position where
the average is lower.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
I also think there's a there's a cal Raley doppelganger
in the three star tier. But we'll get to that.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, we will.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
And I actually like that player a lot, and we
will get to that. So Contraras and this is you know,
Wilson Contraro's if you're half paying attention, Yes, the numbers
are great and he's a great hitter, like you know,
if you look at his career numbers, especially the position
it's amazing. But you know, a couple of things is one,

(17:54):
he's making the position switch or the full time position
switch at age thirty three. And the point I was
making John is that there's a tax to this. Well,
to back up a step, this is kind of unprecedented.
We don't really have like that. I should say unprecedent.
It's rare. We've got three catchers in this century that
made the switch, and even they made it a year

(18:16):
or two earlier, and that was like Victor Martinez, Mike
Napoli and Joe Mauer. Mower doesn't really count because he
already was kind of knocked about and destroyed, and I
know we had concussion issues and just was never quite
the same after the move. You know, the others had
some good years but missed some time, like due to injury,

(18:36):
and that that's my concern with Contreras. He's he's had
over five hundred played appearance in a season once. I
think some of the bangs and scrapes that he's had
over the years will have an impact. I think he'll
be a good hitter, and I think the the projection
I'm looking at for him, it is a realistic projection
which is you know, just to look at the ops

(18:58):
like a seven eighty ops that that's perfectly like fine
and realistic, and you're looking at like twenty twenty three
twenty four home runs. I do think though, that projections
across like six hundred played appearances. I'd take the under
on that, even with the position move, I think five
hundred to five point fifty is safer.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
And at that point, yes, you're still in the catcher benefit.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
I just think people pushing him into this tier thinking wow,
he's gonna play a full season. He's gonna play one
hundred and forty five games. It's like or one hundred
and fifty games, Like, I don't see that.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, I mean nine seasons as a catcher. He's thirty two.
I'm noticing. And this is a pretty minor element of
his projection, but his career hide steals is six back
in twenty twenty three, and he's being projected by Steamer
for six And I'm like, yeah, sure about that, not

(19:52):
that you know, not that six is gonna hit the scales.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, I mean he's also but yeah, he's also generally
last year is a little bit different, but he's generally
been like not a heavy ground bowl guy, but more
of a ground ball guy than a fly ball guy.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
I just look at him.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
I'm like, yes, he's a great hitter. I'm not saying
he's not. I think there's some wish casting where it's like, ooh,
like you know this is final the year that he's
gonna hit thirty home runs and you know, be that guy,
and it's like, yeah, I don't think he is, Like
don't don't draft him in the sixth round thinking that
he's some like great bargain, Like take him in the

(20:28):
sixth round and be like, well, I hope I get
you know, six round production out of him and he
gets you know, those five hundred to five hundred and
fifty played appearances.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
It seems like our message for this tier is we're
a little hesitant about, you know, paying full costs for
any of these players, but they'd all be great if
they if they slip a little writing costs. Yeah, they're
all solid.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah, I mean I will say, like I oddly enough,
you know, I probably I mean, I like Raley if
I had to pick somebody here at price, but even then,
and that's kind of an at price thing, So I'm
not going to be looking at him, being like, oh,
I have to, you know, sneak him in around earlier.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
For sure.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
Let's move to the three star and I'll go ahead
and read off the names we've got Sal Perez, Shae Langeliers,
Will Smith, Logan, o'hoppy, jt Real, Muto, Tyler Stephenson, Francisco Alvarez,
and Austin Wells. So I not sure where you want

(21:32):
to start here?

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Take it away, Well, let's let's let's start with Perez.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
So Perez I have rank lower and nobody pushed back
on that, which surprised me a little bit because I
often think, I don't think this is conscious, but.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
We'll consider this me pushing back because if I was slack,
I probably would have pushed back. Okay, and I actually
have him above Wilson Contreras, So like, go ahead, do
your why.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
I initially did too, but there was another like there
was enough discuss, discussion and debate to move him up
that I moved Contraras up and no one even mentioned Perez,
which really surprised me a little bit. I really thought
like there'd be a logic to moving them both up.
So here's my here's kind of my argument against Perez.

(22:18):
Perez is an above average hitter outside of twenty twenty
and twenty twenty one, he's not really a great hitter,
which is a little bit surprising. Like he's he's kind
of an accumulator, Like if you look at him from
twenty twenty two to twenty twenty four, and I wish
I still had this up, but I think he's eleventh

(22:39):
and I forget that. I think it's like eight hundred
played appearances over the last three years. He's eleventh in ops.
And I know he's sandwiched between like Tyler Stevenson and
somebody else who you're like, well, those are like good,
above average hitting catchers. They're they're not great hitting catchers.
So what you're really betting on with Perez is the
volume you're not betting on.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
I don't think anybody really.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Is betting on him doing weight in twenty twenty one,
at least I hope not. So that's the bet, And
you're making that bet on a thirty five year old catcher.
And yes, I know he's playing, we're first base, he's dhing.
I just don't want to take somebody like at this
age and at this position, within the first six rounds

(23:23):
and cross my fingers and be like, yes, he's the
guy who's going to do it, who's going to just
age gracefully at the position and you know, keep being
the guy who gets me, you know, six hundred plus
played appearances, which by the way, he's never done that,
you know, two years in a row, and maybe this
year he does it because of the extra time at
first base in DH.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
It's just not a bet I want to make.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Yeah, I think that's fair. I feel like I've been very,
very skeptical of pres for so long that he's I
almost have come around to the thought that he just
he is one of those rare players that just produces
in spite of the fact that you know, he's he
doesn't walk much. He's yes, as you say, he's relying

(24:12):
on the accumulation, you know, compiling the home runs and
the RB. I only scored fifty eight runs last year,
which is pretty terrible for six hundred and fifty two
played appearances. I just don't think that, I mean, the
indicators were actually you know, he had a better year

(24:33):
last year than he did in twenty twenty three. I
just don't think he's going to fall off a Cliff.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
No, I don't. No, I don't either. I just don't
take him as early as he's going.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yeah, no, and yeah that's fair. Where is he going
he is going, Yeah, yeah, that's that's probably a little
rich for my blood. I still have him above contrarast,
but pick seventy five feels feels still pretty steep. So
I think I'm just willing to I am willing to
make that bet. I guess on another year, maybe not

(25:06):
at that cost, but not too far below that, just
because I think that compiling is pretty important, and you know,
there's not a lot of average risk with Perez.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
The question again though, like if you look at like
thirty five and older catchers who have produced you know,
it's even hit twenty or more home runs, there's very few.
And again like in Press's defense, it's guys like Carlton
Fisk and maybe Perez will be somebody like that, and
guys like or a Pisada where it's like, oh okay,
like maybe Perez can be. Like if I like at

(25:40):
Perez and Pasada, I don't. Pisada is like you know,
page up in front of me. It's like all right,
like that that's not a terrible comparison. Maybe he can
do it. It just feels that the odds.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Are stacked against him.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
That's just sort of how I I feel. It's more
likely next year at this time, we'll be looking at
a catcher who hit eighteen home runs, eighteen to twenty
home runs, who missed some time, you know, who hit
two fifty, where we're kind of like, yeah, he was fine. First,
the catcher who at age thirty five hit twenty five
to thirty home runs with a two sixty average, which

(26:12):
is kind of where the projections have him at more
and the lower side of the home runs. It just
the projection feels rich to me. Put it that way,
I don't think he's going to be a bust. I
just don't quite see him living up to that. And
of course I could be wrong, Like he's you're right,
he's been an accumulation outlier most of his career, so
he to.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
Be fair, I don't know that I've ever had seal
pres least in the last decade.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Well, funny, funny thing, you know, it turns to Salprez podcast.
We can move on.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
But I had him last year in tout Wars because
it was an on base league, and he kept falling
and falling and falling, and I remember we talked about
this and froinally at the point, I'm like, well, I
get it, but also like this is such a value
for everything else he does, like I have to take him.
And of course he went out and you know, walked
it like a seven percent clip, which isn't great, but
for him, for him, yeah, incredibly three thirty zero, you know,

(27:01):
on base and with everything else he did, that was
that was tremendous for my first catcher.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
So next you have Shay Langliers of the Sacramento Athletics,
and this is I hope we're on the same page,
but this this is my cal Rawley doppelganger.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yes he is, and I like him. I think of
all the catchers in this group, he's the one. I
like it at price just for the reason you stated,
which is I could see him being close to Raleigh
and he's going later, and yes, there's more risk, but
I also think the park will help him and it's
less And I'll be saying this a lot. Maybe I
said this last week with the A's that don't remember,

(27:40):
But it's not that Sacramento is great. I think there's
some misunderstanding about that. It's more that Oakland was bad.
And yes, all those hitters are moving. I think it's
with Rooker last week. But all those hitters are moving
out of that park, and I think that's what's going
to help. Like langoleires just enough, and it is that
thing where you know, if he can even hit like

(28:01):
two thirty or two forty, I think the power is
real and that's just gonna that's going to go a lot.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Yeah. Yeah, I think I would make that bed on
on Langoliers at his cost over Raleigh, you know, and
they have very similar profile, so it's just trying to
calculate their Steamer projected ops and I think it's seven
forty four for Raleigh and seven forty seven for Langoliers
if my math is correct. So you're getting very similar profiles,

(28:28):
you know, projections a little lower on on base for
Leangoliers and a little higher and slug you know, strike out.
They both strike out a lot, but around twenty seven percent,
which you're you're.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Kind of your your calculation, by the way, your calculation,
by the way, is is correct on the ops?

Speaker 3 (28:50):
Yeah, not a math guy, so it's good to know.
I can still do basic addition. Yeah, and so yeah,
So I do like Leangoliers the more I think that, especially,
you know, by this point in the draft, you've got
the the core of your team and if you are
in need of power and you maybe have banks some

(29:10):
average you know, I feel like Langliers is a nice
pick here. I think there's a lot of upside.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
Yeah, there's a few other names here. There's there's one
in particular I want to talk about, but anyone that
you want to highlight, well, this.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Kind of this kind of jump. Well, is your guy
Austin Wells? It's not okay, Well, I just want to
talk about him because people wanted to move him up
to the three star tier. Like in a DP, he's
right on the border of the two tiers. So I
was kind of fine moving him up. But honestly, I
really see him more as a top of the two

(29:50):
two star tier guy that a three star guy. Like
I think he's fine. Yes, he's young, Yes he is
a Yankee stadium. Yes, I see some potential for growth,
but I'll I think the projection's about right, which is,
you know, maybe like fifteen to seventeen home runs with
a low average betteran on base leagues. But and the defense,
you know, the framing skills are great and all that,

(30:10):
but we don't play for that.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
So I think he.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Ranks below the rest of these players. Like how and
we'll talk about of the two starts here, but how
how much more you like him than the rest of
those catchers.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Might go a long way.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
But yeah, I just see everyone from Smith down to Stevenson.
I just kind of see them as clearly better than
Wells this year.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
So if my count's correct, you have him as your
thirteenth catcher, And yes, I have him as my seventeenth,
so I'm not super.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
So you're even lower. Yeah, like I had him thirteenth.
I just I kind of agreed with the ADP with
the differentiation, Like I think I have a similar.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
Going He's going right at the end of the yeah,
edge of the top two hundred.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah, So I it was more of the differentiation. It's like, yeah,
I kind of agreed with as our listeners and my
readers know, Like I don't look at ADP before I
do my rankings. It's just usually i've been doing this song.
It tends to kind of work out that way, where yeah,
I kind of clearly see him as maybe a cut
above that next group. I know you don't agree, but

(31:19):
I think we do agree we more see him in
that next group than in this year. So who did
you want to talk about specifically?

Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, I wanted to mention JT. Real Muto, who is
you know, has historic you know for the last several years,
been in the the four start here and a few
years at least where he was the number one catcher overall.
I think I think he's come around to being a
bargain here.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
I get that interesting.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
The deals are probably gone for are you do you disagree?

Speaker 2 (31:52):
We can no.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
No.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
What's interesting about it is that I think he's a
popular fade really so Tim Tim Jackson, I think wanted
to move him down and I did.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
I had I had a hoppy and Muto.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Flipped in my original rankings, and I just I moved
him around. But I see him more as like neutral
in this tier. I'm okay with him at price, and
I'm kind of like, well, I get it, like I
get the steels might not come back, but I also
see him hitting fifteen to twenty home runs. And that's
my thing about like from Smith down to Stevenson. I

(32:26):
think they're all pretty similar in terms of what I expect,
and maybe Smith.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
I think Smith's a little bit better.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
But that's the thing, like at this price, it's like, well,
given that real Muto slipped, I think he's okay at
this price, and if he if he chips in eight
to ten steals, again, he's a bargain.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
I mean, he had a knee procedure middle last year,
and when he came back then this was, oh, it
was at least a couple months. I think came back
in July, but he slashed two seventy two, three fifty seven,
four fifty one, which is more kind of real Mutou classic.
It didn't really show in the homers, and I just

(33:06):
I just feel like healthy real Muteau still. I mean,
you are taking a chance because you know he's aged
thirty four season. You know, to your point earlier with
with Perez and Contreras Wilson Contreras too, you know there
is a kind of there's a risk when you're getting
deep into the thirties, you know, both in terms of

(33:30):
injury and performance. I just think he's he's the floor
is pretty safe. Even if you don't get the steels.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
Here, and yeah, the one thing, especially if he's.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
A fade and he falls a little bit below ADP,
I'm happy to scoop him up here.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
The one thing Tim mentioned and he's a Phillies guy
and we both live in this area, but he's more
plugged in than I am because he is a Phillies fan,
is that Philadelphia has said they're they're kind of looking
to ease his load a little bit this year with
the expectations they're going to make the playoffs s and so, yes,
if he's healthy, if he plays like one hundred and
twenty games instead of one hundred and forty, there's a

(34:05):
bit of attacks there with that, and I get it.
That would probably be my biggest concern is if that
actually happens. Where the Phillies are like, okay, like we
want to keep our catcher, you know, our thirty four
year old catcher healthy, like for the playoffs because we
hope to go again. I think that would be where
I have some reservations. But you know that being said,
just in the context of this tier, I think that's

(34:27):
true for all the non press catchers here, and I
guess especially from Smith to Stevenson, I would really expect
and I know the Angels are talking about playing Ohapia
a bunch, but I wouldn't really expect any of these
catchers to play more than one hundred and twenty hundred
and thirty games.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
So I get it.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
But really, what that art says to me about real
Muto is that's why he's on a four star catcher
is because he's not going to catch one hundred and
forty games and steal fifteen plus bases.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
Yeah that's fair, And I'm not really arguing him for
him at that tier, right, I just think he's he
I would probably if I were doing these rankings, I would, well,
let's see where do I have him? Yeah, I mean
I have him around legaliers. That's fair level, so kind
of that would be the higher end.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
Again, you know, I still I'm fine with these rankings,
but these four catchers and Smith and Stevenson, I I
see them as all kind of similar.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
I think people are really high on a Hopi and
Amaze as I had him in my home league.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
But he really fell off.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
He really fell off, and I just kind of wonder
how much of it was him being banged up and
worn down and how much of it was you know,
him just tiring, and how much of it was just
that Angel's malaise that like every Angels player seems to have.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
So I'm not knocking him.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
I think he's okay at this price, but he's somebody
I think people look at the age expecting a lot
more and I'm like, no, I think this is pretty
much like what he's going to be.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
I mean, I guess my takeaway would be if you're
looking for if you're waiting on your first catcher, and
you know, you see which one of these players falls,
and maybe that's that's one.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah, what's a question for you? So where's where's the
line for you? Like, who's the last catcher on this
in this tier that in a fifteen team league you're
comfortable with where you're like okay, Like and if if
it's in the two star tier, we can segue, but like,
who's the last catcher, You're like, okay, this this guy,
I'm okay with us my first catcher.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
You know, I would probably actually go all the way
down to Alvarez, as risky as that might seem.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
I think I'm a little scared of him. It might
be like the Mets do.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
Yeah, me.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
But and really part of it is now like he's
really had like a year and a half now where
it's like and I know it's some of its injury,
but that's part of the problem where like I just
don't know like what to expect from him. And if
he hits this projection, you know, like twenty twenty two,
twenty three home runs and a two thirty seven average,

(36:59):
great like that, I think at this price, that's fine.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
I I just don't I don't know what to think
risky for you, That's what I think.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
I think there's a lot of y. What's his what
there is what's his ADP on what you pulled up
just to.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
His ADP is one fifty three.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
About the tepth round, eleventh round. So I mean it's
not it's not a terrible price.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
I just I think there's the big drop from him
to Wells is like you know.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah, I I picked so I will say, like Stevenson
for me if I if I don't almost have this address,
but if I have the I have to get a
number one catcher. Stevenson is probably the line for me
where it's like okay, like that, that's where I want
to draw the line. Not that Albert's ceiling is higher.
I think I just feel a little bit more relative
safety with with Stevenson than I do with albarez.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
And And this might be a small sample thing, but
and you know, September stats are always a little dicey
as it is, but he did hit five home runs
in September, and you know.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
There's Stevenson or Albaas and and that was you know,
the further away from what he have like a thumb
thing last year that was kept him out.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
So you know, I don't know. I think I might be.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
Then, but then he also he had like no, he
had no power in the postseason. Yes, I know that's
an even smaller sample.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
But yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
He just looked he looked like.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
You know, and the average is okay, but it was
an empty average. Looked like kind of a mess. So
I don't know, I I get it, like he's still
really young, and the and the potentials there, and I
again I don't even saying wrong with picking him here.
This is more answering your philosophical question of like, well
he's your number one catcher. I think it does affect
how I draft a little bit in that in the

(38:42):
two starsier where it's like I okay.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
At that point, Yeah, I know that you want to get.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Somebody safer or or at least you know, a volume
guy in that tier, and we'll get to this like
rather than somebody where it's like, oh this guy has
upside or oh like that this guy is mostly average.
It's like, no, I think I need like to get
that power for my second catcher too.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah. No, that that was going to be my follow
up is to say that, you know, if I went
down to Albarez or even in that kind of like Stevenson,
I guess I would put here too, is that I
really don't want to get down to the one star tier,
and there are some options in Tuesday I think are
a little more higher floor. So maybe we should transition
to that tier.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, let's do that. So you read the last names.
I'll read these.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
There's eight names here as well. There's kaber Luiz, our
our friend, Ryan Jeffers, Avon Herrera, Sean Murphy, our other
less friend, Gabrielle Moreno caught a wrong, Joey Bart, and
Alejandro Kirk.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
I mean I think your reaction kind of says it all,
which is there's some promise here, and there's certainly the
potential for stats, but this is definitely I think the
last few years you can see the gap between the
three and two star tiers. Like at least I always
camp like where I feel like, well, this is probably
your catcher to territory. If this is your first catcher

(40:10):
in a fifteen team league, it's not like you screwed up.
It's more that you've made a decision. You've decided, Okay,
like I'm I want more of something else earlier in
the draft, and I'll just take the hit at catcher.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yeah, I mean, I think if you're looking for the
high floor options, you're looking at Ruiz and you know
probably Moreno are the two that stand out for me,
and certainly you know you're you're hoping for a solid
average from those. I feel like maybe I'm just you know,

(40:45):
living a few years ago. But I mean Sean Murphy, Okay,
there's there's no I mean, yes, he's had injury issues,
he certainly did last year, but he's he's one year
off of a twenty one home run season with an
eight forty three zero. Yes, there's no more Darneaut in Atlanta.

(41:05):
If there's any one catcher in this tier that I
could see jumping up a tier, I think for me,
it's it's Murphy. He's not that he's not that old.
So you know, this would presume a healthy year from Murphy,
which might be a stretch. But he hits the ball hard.
He's you know, he's good enough defensively to be in

(41:27):
the lineup most every day. I mean their backup catchers
Chadwick Trump, who I just mentioned because his name is
fun to say. So, I don't know, am I crazy
on Murphy?

Speaker 2 (41:40):
There, No, I see it.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
I will say, like, and this is sort of similar
to Alvarez where it goes back I think at least yeah,
it goes back like a year and a half, like
not just a year. Like that's sort of the tricky thing,
Like a lot of that twenty twenty three was the
first half. You know, you go back to July first
of twenty twenty three, and he has a one ninety

(42:03):
three three h five three sixty slash line. He has
seventeen home runs and for fifty three plate appearances. I'm
not suggesting he'll hit one ninety three, but it is like, Wow,
this is more of like a one year was bad thing.
Like I think this goes back a little bit longer.
I do see it, Like I could see him, you know,
hitting like two forty two fifty with twenty twenty five

(42:25):
home runs. I just wouldn't bet on like twenty twenty three.
There's a lot of group think about the Braves that's like,
oh it was one one year, there was something in
the air, and it's like, yeah, I don't know if
that's really true.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Like I I.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
The projection for him, for Murphy seems to split the difference,
which is I agree with you. I think the upside's
more than that for sure. And I also agree with
you that he's the guy who could Of these catchers,
he's the one I think could jump into the three
star tier the easiest. All that being said, he's fairly
ranked here. Maybe he could be high in the tier,

(43:00):
but I think the rankings fare given the year and
a half of struggles that he's had.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
Yeah, that's fair.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
I mean.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
The last thing I'll say about is projection is yeah,
projected for Seemer has him with four hundred and six
played appearances, one hundred and one games. Yeah, yeah, I
might take the over on that. So yeah, and it's
it's a I think, you know, if he's probably the

(43:32):
catcher here who if at his current cost, I would
be happy to get. Ideally, of course as a C two.
There are a couple other catchers here, but I'll hand
the mic to you and you can opine on one
of them.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Well, I could have plained on a few, but actually
I want to lump like three together here. So you
you kind of mentioned like batting average, and there's three
catchers here that we hope are primarily be average catchers,
and they're von Herrera, Gabriel Moreno and Alhandro Kirk. And
you know, it's almost like a ghost of past president

(44:11):
and future average scenarios where Kirk Kirk was the guy
a couple of years ago, like we all remember, and
he had that one year hit for a ton of average.
That's most of what he did. I mean, yes, it
was fourteen home runs and it wasn't nothing. But I
think we looked at him like, wow, like this could
be like this great average here it was some pop
and you know he's just completely gone in the wrong direction.

(44:34):
Moreno said, yes, someone's injury, but just empty average. And
even then not that impressive. And then there's Herrera, So
so I guess I lumped these three together and I
think they're perpectly ranked, and like you, I do like Herrera,
but and there was some talk to move him up
as well into the three star tier. But I'm like, well,
the problem I have with batting average catchers, like if

(44:55):
they don't do that thing, and particularly if they're in
this tier where they're not going to get a lot
a lot of plate appearances and we learned some morena
less you're in the main event, it's kind of like
it wasn't a zero, but it's like, well, he really
wished for the.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
End, but there was a while there where you weren't
getting Really.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
It was sort of like, well, I wish we had
gotten more out of the slot than that we didn't.
It's a two star tiers, so I get it, Like
it's not like your alternatives or all that that tremendous
generally speaking, or if you get somebody good, it's it's
a lucky pick more than a skilled pick. But yeah,
I'd rather kind of roll the dice and hope for
power than hope for average in this tier, is what

(45:32):
I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Yeah, No, and and that leads me to the other
player here that I'm excited about, which is who is
Joey bart You know, it was a fairly small sample
in Pittsburgh, but you know, he has it looks like
he has the job until Andy Rodriguez is ready. And

(45:55):
it's a I think a fair amount of runway to
take it and run with it. I mean, it was
basically a half season, and you know an ops just
over or just under was seventy ninety nine, just under
eight hundred, you know, and this is mainly like an
upside play here. He's projected to hit in the heart

(46:18):
of that order, which is not an amazing lineup, but
it's not the worst either. I sense a note of
of hesitation. No, well like it was.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Well, no, my note of hesitation was about Ed Rodriguez.
I actually like Bart a lot. I think that.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Some people are I think they're okay with him at price,
which is at the back end of this tier. But
I agree with everything you said. And the thing about
Rodrigue is, oddly enough, the argument for Joey bart in
twenty twenty five is Joey Barton in twenty twenty and
twenty twenty one and let me explain. It's the concept
that young catchers. I think people are looking at Rodriguez
and be like, oh, you know, he's gonna brush Bart

(47:03):
aside soon round than later. It's like, well he might.
But frankly, we've seen this with young catchers, and we
just talked about a few of them. They don't all
just instantly pop up and you know, put up an
eight hundred ohps. It's not really like difficult to you know,
envision a situation where he's you know, he's just better.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
He's better than that.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
And the thing about Bart that's tricky is that the
projections don't like him at all. But I think it's
because they're really baking in you know, the two years,
and I get it, we're looking at a two month sample.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
This isn't like.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
It isn't like I'm completely sold on him. It's more like,
at this price, I could see him being like a
three star catcher, like a fifteen to twenty home run
catcher with a two forty two fifty average, where I
look at him at his ADP and go, oh, you
know what, that's that's not bad, Like that's that's something
I can be happy about here.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Yeah, I look at the projection and I think the
average and OBP look right to me. I think the
slug looks looks low. And you know, the thing was
with the Giants, he really got screwed in a lot
of ways because twenty twenty COVID season, you know, they
needed to call him up. You know, Posey was not playing.

(48:22):
He had a really rough time. Twenty twenty one was
Posy's comeback year and you know, had an MVP quality year.
The Giants magical year didn't. It was basically in the
miners the whole year. Twenty twenty two limited a run.
But you know, then then in twenty twenty three, Bailey

(48:42):
comes onto the scene, so he never really had the
time or the space to develop. And to your point,
you know, this is the time of you know, the
period in a young catcher's career when they often are
struggling to manage being both an offensive player and a
defensive player as well and handling a pitching staff. So

(49:07):
it feels like he kind of came into his own.
Even so we're going off of the half season, so
it's kind of maybe paying off on some of that
that prospect.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
He was even gonna say, like you we talked about
in the last year. But like, if you look at
a player like like Tyler Stevenson, who's certainly had better
outcomes than Bart, similar thing where like lots of ups
and downs and injury. Mark You're in twenty twenty two
and you know a hitter who's been decent. But I
think if you look back at Stevenson's you know, prospect pedigree,

(49:39):
you would have thought, wow, you know, he'd have more
than twenty home runs in a season by now, But
but he doesn't, like he had nineteen last year. So
I think that's that's exactly what it is, which is
like Bart in particular, had some really unfortunate circumstances and
some injuries. And again I'm not suggesting he's going to
be this big breakout guy who hits you know, you
can't just extrapolate last year, you know, like up and go, oh,

(50:00):
he's going to be a twenty three home run hitter.
But I do think the projections which have him hitting
fewer home runs in like at over more than one
hundred plate appearances, are really limped. Like I think he
can beat the counting that the non steels counting stats
like easily.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Yeah, I agree anyone else in this tier that you
want to mention. I one thing I will say quickly
is that I am pretty cool on Connor Wong. I mean,
he had like two and a half months and June
to October was pretty bad w RC plus below yeah,
well below one hundred.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
So you're betting a lot on average, Like you're you're
betting which I don't think will repeat, You're you're betting
on some steels or it's like, yes, he has some speed,
but I don't really want to It's not like he's
still twenty still eight, I don't want to count on that,
so yeah, it really and also his defensive stats are
not good, so it's like, well, I I know the
Red Sox don't have this great in house replacement and

(50:55):
they traded Kyle Trailway, but I don't really want to
bet on that volume from Longen. The guy I want
to mention was kber Ruiz. I've heard this on another podcasts,
but he had like an illness last year. He lost
a bunch of weight. He was playing at that lighter weight.
I don't want to oversell Ruiz, but I can see
like a bit of a bounce back season for him.

(51:17):
Particularly in batting average, and he could be a nice
like volume guy in an improved like Nationals like lineup
this year. So I kind of like him to be
closer to twenty twenty three, when he had eighteen home
runs with the two sixty average than twenty twenty four.
Like I think that twenty twenty three is a decent
is a decent enough?

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Bet Yep, that sounds that sounds right to me.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
All right, so one start here.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, well we'll do and I know we have some
questions too, so we can ask as well, but we'll
do the thing here in the one starts here, and honestly,
if you want to pass, feel free, but I'll read
off the names. But then we'll we'll do kind of
are super deep pick and yes it's catchers, so it said,
do I have to think? But the players here are

(52:07):
Danny Jansen, Bo Naylor, Jonah Him, Patrick Bailey, and Luis
Compy Sano.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
So I mean I can go first. I think he
went first last week.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
But if you have a first, ohs go first, all right,
So I'm going to pick somebody that this is the
whole you know, how soon we forget twenty twenty three
and it's Luis Companysano, So I get it. He had
a terrible year last year. I think he was over
hyped coming into twenty twenty four. It kind of led
me scratching my head. But all that being said, it

(52:36):
looks like the Padres are committing to him. I don't
see any free agents out there that are really exciting.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
Ethan Salas still probably a couple of years away.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
Yeah, I would think even twenty twenty like and very
end of twenty twenty five and twenty twenty six is
probably the optimistic like Sallas timeline, he really I gat
a special prospect, but yeah, I don't think we'll see
him this year. So all that being said, I think
copy Sado is a pretty clear wide path, and oddly enough,
the projections for him are also like kind of splitting

(53:08):
the difference between twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four
that frankly is too robust, particularly in batting average. But
I could see Campusato hitting like twelve home runs with
a two forty average and we're in the one star tier.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Folks.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
This is this is the idea here is You're you're
drafting a catcher to kind of help yourself out.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Elsewhere.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
I think he's probably the best bet I people are
doing that thing where they're just writing him off way
too much based off of a small sample in twenty
twenty four, just like they're giving him way too much
credit for a small sample in twenty twenty three.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
That's it actually, you know, looking at this tier, I
don't really hate anyone in this tier. You know, if
you're going for bargain basement C two. But I'm going
off the board, Mike, Okay for my pick, and I'll
lead it. I think you'll see where I'm going. But
can you tell me who the designated hitter is right now?

(54:05):
Per roster resource for the Arizona Diamondbacks?

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Is it? Is it Peven Smith? And probably Smith? Okay? Wow?

Speaker 3 (54:17):
I just yes.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
By the way, I did not peak, although I this
is the time here I do look a lot.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
So this is a man who knows his his rosters. Uh.
Adrian Delcastillo had a really nice taste last year. I
mean he is. He has a hitting forward catching prospect,
which you know, even though the Diamondbacks have a young,
skilled defensive catcher and Gabriel Moreno uh and del Castillo

(54:49):
is projected to start the year at triple A. I mean,
he this is a a catcher who is is good
enough to possibly put in time at And I don't know,
like if this is one you know how I feel
about using a roster spot on him. But you know,

(55:09):
in the right construction, I might think about it. I
just I just go eighteen.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Here's my here's my hot take. There's a similar catch.
There's a similar catcher, Hunter Goodman, who I think there's
a lot of helium with people are excited about him.
Between the two, I would rather have del Castillo. I
I know Goodman's and cores, but I like I I
like the tools better with With del Castillo, I like

(55:38):
the opportunity. Frankly, I like the defense. I think he's
more likely to stick as a catcher a couple of
days a week than uh than Goodman, who, Yes, I
know he can catch, but I think Stallings is the
projected starter for a reason. And I I you know
you can't. You can't you know, get to first. You

(55:58):
can't strike out in cores and get to first. Well,
I mean you can if the catcher drops the ball,
but you know what I mean. So it's just the
concept of like I do agree with you as a
as a deep like back of the draft sleeper or
in a league where you know, I know some people
do this strategy where you're taking catcher in the twenty
eighth or twenty ninth round of a thirty round draft.
You're like, you know what, and I did this, Slasheer

(56:20):
and Tutwors with Herrera, like, you know what, I'll I'll
figure it out, like, I'll see.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
If this works.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
I think he's he's a fine play for that sort
of pick.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
And this is one where the landscape might might evolve
over spring training too, you know, depending on how he does.
But yeah, I think it's just one to have in
mind a potential last pick if it looks like he might,
you know, start the year or get called up quickly
to the major league club, because you know, if they

(56:52):
do have him on the twenty six man roster, they're
going to definitely want his bat in the lineup. So yeah,
del Castillo, we prom or we did solicit some questions.
So one of them was on blue sky dot Com.

(57:12):
One of them was from Breathing Orange Fire who asked
about Danny Jansen and I'll just I'll just this is
for an ale only league, but I think it's worthwhile
to maybe, you know, say a couple of things about Jansen.
But Breathing Orange Fire asks whether Jansen's a keeper in
a two catcher ale only for nine nine dollars. It's

(57:35):
a four by four league, So in a two catcher
ale only, I'm probably leading. Yes. I don't know how
you feel.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
I would lean no, but I tend to be conservative
with with catchers, particularly if they're not like high end.
I think my raw bid price on him is seven,
So maybe with inflation that that would work, But I
I I tend to go conservative where it's like, you know,
what if if I've got a guy who I've valued
at seven, and you know he's a nine, you can

(58:07):
keep him at nine, I'd kind of be inclined to
throw him back.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
Yeah, I guess. I guess my argument for would just
be that he seems to be the clear starter. Yeah,
in Tampa, and you know they're they're going to an
advantageous park. Jansen's only twenty nine. You know that it
hasn't been great. It wasn't great last year, but he's
he's still pretty disciplined at the plate. So yeah, I mean,

(58:34):
I can see it either way, He's definitely not someone
I would go out of my way, But I haven't
played in Olily League for a couple of years, so
so yeah, maybe maybe maybe nine is not worth well
the keeper well.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
And then these questions like in a keeper league gets
very contextual because there's there's catcher and closer. In particular,
there's some drafts where you look at the other rosters
and you're like, oh, gee, there's only gonna be four
the four catchers out there are four starting catchers. I
think in that case there's a pretty good argument to
keep him, whereas some years, for whatever reason, like maybe

(59:08):
only four catchers will be kept. And at that point
it's like, well, I think I might rather like take
my chances in the draft.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
And the only about only leagues is my philosophy.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
It is generally to have one solid backstop and then
maybe a guy at a buck or two. And Jansen
is almost a tweetter that way, like he's not the
solid guy and he's obviously not the dollar guy in
this scenario, so that that's probably my rational against him.
And then the other thing I'm wondering is like, so
from what I've read, like at at BP about the

(59:39):
park and it was a great article, and I wish
I remember who wrote it because I want to give
him credit, but I'm blanking on it.

Speaker 3 (59:49):
I'll look it up and put it in there.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
I'm looking.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
I'm looking for Curtis Mead because Mead was mentioned in
the articles. So and we're not going to talk about
Curtis Mead, but as soon as I find that, i'll
i'll let you know. But essentially, the park benefit is
more for lefties in terms of power than righty's and chance.
It is a writing and it doesn't mean it won't benefit,
but they were talking about how the park plays and

(01:00:13):
the dimensions. That's really where the benefit comes from. So
I'm trying to see if there's any oppo, like, you know,
any opposite field play in his Enchance's profile.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
I don't think so, but yeah, not really.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
He's he's actually a pretty heavy pull hitter, it looks like,
so I don't think that will help him as much
as it will like some of the lefties. But I
do agree it's it's generally a positive move, like you know, period. Yeah,
so yeah, And of course when I searched for meat,
I didn't find that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
I didn't find it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
It's that would be a bunch of other like older stuff,
which I kind of get. It's it's Curtis meat and
his you know, his stock has fallen a little bit
since twenty twenty three.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
Well, we did get some productive minutes on Danny Chance
in you can always I did find it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
By the way, the article is called it's Jacob Edelman,
who wrote a great article by Jacob came out December twelfth.
It was new Stadium, New Sluggers, three Rays ready to
Rake and at the beginning it's a really good piece
about the park itself, the effects, the difference between the
trop and and Steinbrunner Field. So I definitely read it

(01:01:25):
if you haven't already. It helped me out a lot
and putting together my valuations.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
All Right, I think we are at the end of
our tour through the catcher landscape.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
I think we are.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
I mean we had a second question, but it was
about like Samuel Bissalo, who I think that's more of
a prospect question. This is more of a redraft yeah
sort of thing. I you know, my general thing about
catchers like that in a redraft league is like, well,
if you have there was like a lot of reserve space.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
It's fine. He's just sort of a tough, tough guy
to to grab.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
I mean a quick look at Baslo, I mean it
looked like he, you know, he needs more time in
triple A. He had a taste that, you know, he
struggled a bit. So no rush with with Retimen. He's
with Regimen a catcher. He's he's probably not going to
come up as a catcher. And there's not a lot
of other sort of room. I mean, you've got Mount

(01:02:24):
Castle and maybe Cure stat at first, so maybe as
a late season kind of DH.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
But yeah, he's he's He's thirteenth on the Baseball Perspectives
one on one, which which came out, Well, it's weird
because the date, Oh this is this is last year's
Actually this is what I'm looking at. He was thirteenth
in last year's list, and I went to pull up
the one on one from the drop down and it
kave me twenty twenty four.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
So let me see in this.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
Year's least, Yeah, we can he's eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
He's eleven, so not much so that's really probably the
biggest the most interesting about him. His position is has
changed from catcher to Catcher's you know, slash first base
and with Adlie Rushman there, I think that's part of
the challenge too, which is in the short term that's
probably his path, like maybe he'll catch like a little bit,
but and you know, Ryan Molcastle maybe gets traded. But

(01:03:18):
I feel like for this year alone, at least, there's
there's a lot of maybes, Like this is not me
questioning the prospect, but more like the well like if.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
You're really where we are, you're from now.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Yeah, if you're really looking at this for this year,
I I don't know. And if you have a prospect question,
you know, definitely rely much more on on Jeffrey and
Jared and all the great writers at the site than
on us, like we are not the prospect experts. Thank

(01:04:11):
you for listening to episode three twenty two of Flags
Fly Forever, a Baseball Perspectives fantasy baseball podcast. We will
be back next week to talk about Second Basement. And
before you go, just don't forget it's a great time
of year to subscribe to Baseball Perspectives if you don't
already do so. There's various levels of subscription and for

(01:04:34):
fantasy that this is the dream time there's about like
fifteen to twenty articles a week, including two for me,
which is the tier article. We've been talking about an
ADP overview, so please come check it out if you
haven't already. For Mike Gianella, John Hageland, thank you very
much and as I said before, we'll be back next week.

Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
Everyone. Order the Baseball Perspectives Annual. Follow Flags Fly Forever
on Blue Sky until next week. Audio ming