Fox Footy Podcast: AFL's bizarre mid-season tournament idea

Max Laughton, Ben Waterworth and Will Faulkner review Round 17 and preview Round 18 of the 2025 AFL season on the Fox Footy Podcast, with breakdowns of the state of the finals race and the AFL's idea for a mid-season tournament, plus Fair or Farce, the Mailbag, Sheeds' Wisdom and much more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The big footy issues from every angle, dissected by a
team that follows the game closer than anyone else wherever
you are around the planet. This is your ultimate guide
to the AFL. This is the Fox Footy Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Yes, another week, another round of matches where it all
went relatively to scripts, but round seventeen loons as moving
round with an array of top eight shapers across Friday
and Saturday. Li said, though about Thursday and Sunday the better.
We'll discuss all that, plus dissect the biggest issues in
fair or fast. Answer your very intelligent questions in the mailbag,

(00:36):
be blessed by more sheety wisdom and give you the
expert tips and cups all on the Fox Footy Podcast.
Ben Waterworth with you, as is fellow von Mulder Bandwagon
members Max Lawton and Will Folkner.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Hello boys, Hello, Hello, So this is I could not
have predicted that Monday night usually a big night on
the Fox Sports website a lot of wrap up from
the weekend of AFL and NRL, that the biggest story
would be the stand in South African captain against Zimbabwe
because he scored a billion runs but then decided not

(01:10):
to score a billion and one and break Brian Lyra's record.
Is that so.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
In your wheelhouse, will wheelhouse, wheelhouse?

Speaker 4 (01:17):
How do you want to say it? Yes, it is,
and I was. I was pleasantly surprised cleaning onto the
Fox Sports website Yesterday, my day and Max Lawton cricket
by it's a rarity revolving around everything you just said.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Cricket. I don't. I'm not a huge cricket guy, certainly
not as much as you two are. You love talking
to early two thousands cricket, early two thousands footy. It
is really Ben's jams and we're as an active cricketer
himself at times of course knows his stuff, But I
like that Cricket is just the weirdest sport in the world,
and the best stories it throws up are just here's
this really crazy thing that only happened once because of

(01:53):
this rule we forgot we wrote a thousand years.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah that happens. That happens. It is a remarkable sport
where we continue to see stuff that we've never seen before.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
But whereas footy is always sensible, as we know.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, well things went relatively descript as a set off
the top. Did we learn anything MAXI over the weekend.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
I mean I got nine, so I didn't, right, I
think most people got nine. I've got two perfect rounds
in a row. That's really weird.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
In particularly round fifteen sixteen. Those two rounds would have
been as well.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
We would not expect this sort of thing to be
happening this step into a season. But no, all the
favorites won. The one upset quote unquote was not an
upset because Sydney were favorite against Fremantle.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
So yeah, so on Freemantle. I think Jason Dunst on
three sixty last night four put it quite well. They
just won six in a row. They ran into a
relatively inform, healthy Sydney team at the SCG. Did we
expect did we expect anything less? Or did? Or did
were some cracks exposed that were war papered over by

(02:57):
the fact that they'd won six six games a row previously.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
It's a great question. I tend to think that was
probably to be expected. I think Sydney would do for
a scalp at some point, and as we know, they
now have a healthy list to play with, probably let
their finals run a little bit too late. But yeah,
I think with Fremantle Yeah, they would have liked a
scout to I guess you know, have themselves finals contenders again,

(03:22):
they just keep sitting on that fringe. Just when you
think they're about to get going. As you said, a
six game win streak, they lose against Sydney. You don't
read into it as much as perhaps other losses they
had early on in the season. But it felt about right.
It didn't surprise anyone. As Maxi has said many times
in the lead up to the weekend, the betting ons
would suggest that Freemantle actually the underdogs for our flight
across the other side of the country. I didn't learn

(03:43):
anything new from it, but it's definitely long Light. Sorry
long Mule wasn't panicked at all in his press conference
after Whether or not that's good or a bad thing,
I think it's a different question, but didn't feel like
we learn anything.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
They are the Swans are a different proposition. But as
you pointed out in the run home, Max, it didn't
quite It would have been a very, very handy win
because they do have a tricky run home. Of those
teams sort of floundering towards the bottom of the eight.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yeah, one of the toughest ones I believe it is
the third spreadsheets out I've got. You know, I've got
to have my numb down. You're just a fool with
an opinion if you don't have stats to back it
up as.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
A form of champion data. Analyst Glenn laughed.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Exactly yes, turned to North Melbourne list boss. That's right,
very tough draw for Frio, so they've got like this
week against Hawthorne is super important, but I think context
is even more important with Fremantle. So we talked about
them and they were one of the lead items on
AFL three sixty in the footy shows because they were
the one top nine ten to lose, so that any
other normal weekend there would have been a team that

(04:41):
we were talking about that were even worse. The other
problem is they're ten and six and not in the
eight and that's the first time that's ever happened in
the top eight era. A team with ten wins after
sixteen games is not in the top eight this time
last year with the exact same record of Messanage Freer
would be fifth.

Speaker 4 (04:56):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
And you know who finished fifth last year the Brisbane Lions,
who won the flag with fourteen and a half wins.
Across the season, fourteen wins may not get you into
the eight. This year Freeo could get to fourteen. I
think more likely someone falls over and get stuck on thirteen,
but it's certainly possible. Ever against fourteen.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
Do you think Freemantle's that team that gets stuck on thirteen?

Speaker 3 (05:16):
They could be. It'd be their or gws would be
my tips because they have the lowest percentages, which hurt
them anyway. The Dogs are also on ten wins, but
I trust them to beat the bad teams. They've got
enough of those left on their draw and then the
sons of an extra game in hand with which to
get to fourteen, So those would be the ones who
are most in trouble, which makes sense. They'ret the bottom
of the eight, but they have to get everything right now.

(05:37):
This is what happens when you have a slowish start.
There were four and five for their winning streak, and
it's a weird outlier season where there are so many
teams already on ten wins.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
So after the loss, there was quite a bit of rhetoric,
particularly on our own shows on First Crack, that the
boys went pretty hard on the Dockers. Are you of
the same belief though, Fork that Justin longmul has to
play finals for him to be coaching the club again
in twenty twenty six on this uniquely constructed contract that
he has.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
It is a very very fine line. I don't want
to sit on the fence with this one, so I
think I would earn the side of Fresh Start, But
they just have such a good list. I think that's
the issue that most people have, is to be there
for so long. I think Matthew Nix is a coach
who gets compared quite closely with long Muir because they
came into the system at the same time. Both of
them didn't play finals. I think the difference is the

(06:27):
Crows probably didn't have that same list as Freer, or
at least, in my opinion, the same spine. There's what
Frea had for a couple of years. Freer made the
finals in twenty twenty two, made that jump into the
top eight three years before. We looks like the Crows
will do the same thing. So there was that expectation
set earlier, and I think as a result his end
is probably going to come a little bit quicker as
a result, whereas with Nicks it was always going to

(06:47):
be if he didn't make finals this year, he would go.
But it's things have finally clicked, probably at the right time.
Where as long Muir, Yeah, I think you know, to
not make three final series after your first appearance is
quite concerning when their list is only gotten stronger to
that point.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Do you think that Fremantle's list has more depth and
more quality compared to Adelaide's list.

Speaker 4 (07:08):
I think Adelaide's list off the question without noticing yeah, no, no,
I love them off the dome. I would say adelaide
probably has a little bit more depth. But Frio's best
twenty two, I actually think he's probably better than Adelaide's.
Being briefly honest, they don't have as many Adelaide would
have more weaknesses. Yes, I think Frio if you look
at if you just list their team every area of

(07:28):
the ground, they have two or three like proper stars
potential all Australian level players. Yes, but I think the
Crows also have a few more match winners than what
Frio does. The ceiling is probably high. Yeah, it's different,
but I think in the middle the median is probably
better than Adelaide's. When everyone's at their best in full health,
They were.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
Two of the three most under pressure coaches coming into
this year with Luke Beveridge. Beveridge has performed well enough
to get as an extension, and Long Mule got this
fake extension where all it really did was mean that
Frio was not going into this point of the season
with everyone asking if they're going to sack their coach
because he's on the rolling contract from the time this
dearly expires I think on October thirty first, so they

(08:05):
certainly can move him on if they want to. It's
very easy to the problem is that the context that
I spoke about is something that free will be very
well aware of, and so there's a world where they
win thirteen or fourteen games and miss out, and I
think that's just enough promise to not sacking.

Speaker 4 (08:19):
Yeah, I agree, it's such a fine line. What do
you think do you think long Mules should stay if
he doesn't make finals and finishes around that twelve thirteen
win mark.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
I'd probably tend towards lean towards the side of the
talent that the playing of the playing group is not
quite matching up with the results, And I do wonder
if considering the time that has passed now if the
message is not quite getting through or the plan is
not as advanced, the actual game plan is not as

(08:47):
advances where it should be, and that a different coach
might get a better result. A for want a better turn,
a finishing coach right that helps take them to the
next step. I agree with you in the fact that
Adelaide more match winners, but you know, I think Freemantle
probably has a bit more depth in defense in particular.
They're midfield well, it should be better, but apparently they're

(09:08):
They're they're white well done in clearance differential so far
well beaten the Dockers and their forward line continues to tease,
but like Jay Jai Amos hasn't really sort of come
on as much, and Tracey is a bit hit and miss,
and they're about to lose Michael. They have lost Michael
Waldas to retirement, so they're not going to get much
of a They're going to get no output from him now.

(09:28):
So there's just there's a lot of question marks still
about free On, which makes me think that the six
wins in a row might have wall papered over a
couple of cracks that are exposed on Sunday.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
The way great wins either some of them like North
Melbourne and the Seculator games I'm thinking of as well
a lot of home games in that run that they
had to win those, of course, and they did. You know,
fair play to them, they beat who's in front of them.
But it the same time I say all that they've
played two bad games all year, the Geelong game and
one and the Security and Secula at Marvel. Every other
game they've been within at least three goals with their opponent.

Speaker 4 (09:59):
And again they are tenning six, which it would be
fifth last year, So there probably is a little bit
of overreaction to it. The last thing I'm saying is
is there a chance that we have overestimated the talent
on the list?

Speaker 3 (10:09):
Is that a reality that would never have to be,
that would never happen Calton? Possibly, possibly, possibly, But I
think it's it's more about that talent does not necessarily
just equal wins. You have to have a structure in
a system that works in modern footy, and King certainly
has been strong very a very long time now about
their structure and how they play the game just not

(10:30):
befitting the modern style of a more frantic, fast place footing.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
So the team that beat them, the Swans, to borrow
a very overused meme, Max, you're telling me there's a
chance with the Swans.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
I thought they could have been Jonah Hill clenching his
fist within the a's hat. They could have been Steve
Carell saying God, no memes that I never want to
see it. Do not use those gifts, please God. No
Sydney playing files. I mean, yeah, I guess, I guess.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
Does the draw open up for them enough?

Speaker 3 (11:05):
It opens up for them enough to get to twelve wins.
I can definitely see them getting to twelve wins. In
a normal year that would be enough to contend for
the eight, but probably not this year. The problem is
they need to do that and then maybe take a
scalp or two against Brisbane or Geelong, and they need
Freeo to fall over, and they need GWS to fall
over because those are the teams most likely to do so,
let's discussed earlier.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
Probably need a big win against North Melbourne as well.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
Percentage is a little bit of a problem, but it's
about two hundred points of margin the percentage gap between
them free and GWS. So if all three finished on
twelve wins, Sydney. There's a world where they could catch
it and pass them as piiclarly because they play GWS
in a few weeks, all on a Friday night, Yes,
the secondary Friday night game, of course, because that makes sense.
So there's a chance to make up percentage there. So

(11:48):
there's a world that happens. I think it's still very unlikely,
but they are now the only one where it can happen.
It's more that Sydney now looks like a team good
enough to play finals in a normal year. They could
make a run. The numbers just sort of don't end
up at this point.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
No, okay, all right, And just from a Carlton perspective,
you sort of briefly, rather bluntly put them on the
agenda now, so finals is out of the equation now
for Carlton.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
So they could win thirteen games, they the percentagesh They've
got a good percentage, don't they, But for ninety six,
for been six and ten, But no, they're not playing final.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
This is the thing though, what you mentioned beforehand that
Frero would only play two bad games for the year,
that the problem is for Carlton the last two weeks
of three weeks, if you include the North Melbourne ga
where they only lost by eleven points. That's three really
poor losses in a row. Granted the last one was
against a very red hot Collingwood who was the premiership
favorite for most of the moment. So finals are now
out of the equation for Michael Voss after getting to

(12:42):
a prelium two years before scraping in the finals. Injury
hindered last year, So what does that mean for him
going forward?

Speaker 4 (12:49):
I think the one thing I think a lot of
people are waiting for, myself included, is just a response
to speak of overused memes Max, the one of the
poking the sticks saying hey do so do something?

Speaker 2 (13:00):
That is a good examp.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
There's three games in a row where I think traditionally
wet from a team like Carlton or Carlton in recent
years when they've had a lull, you eventually get a response,
whether it be one, two, three games in. We're now
three games in, three very bad losses. As you said,
that North Melbourne lost should have been forty points that
that can't believe it was any less than that. But
we haven't seen that response, and I honestly thought it

(13:21):
could be Collingwood, And it doesn't have to be in
the form of a win. It might just be a
three goal loss to Collingwood, who was a very good team.
They just haven't shown any sign of that whatsoever. And
I think that's the most concerning part is this is
now the norm. It's not just a small patch. So yeah,
i'll throw a you Max.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
But well it's unfortunately they are like the dog sitting
in the burning house saying this is fine, yes, good
run to go to another one. That's and we just
have to wait and see what they do with this
sort of review when they have a change at the
top of the club over the next couple of months,
whether that prompts them to make any irrational, irrational changes
as they would have in the past. I generally don't

(13:59):
know what their behavior is going to be, Like, it's
not about it's about performance, Like if they lose their
next six like then Voss has gone. But if they
have just a normal end of the year and limp
to ten or eleven wins, it's purely about what the
people in charge think is the best thing for the club,
and we don't know that preseason.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Did we have Carlton in the eight.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
I didn't I had them about this range, but I
had them.

Speaker 4 (14:21):
I think I did.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, So would you be holding on them considering your
preseason expectations and what's played out this year? Would you
be holding on to Michael Voss and making changes around
him A Lah Damien Harby twenty sixteen are Labama Thompson
in two thousand and six?

Speaker 3 (14:35):
I think that's reasonable, But I haven't had a I
haven't had the view for the last few years that
Michael Voss is this master coach who's going to lead
them to the promised Land because he's so good at this,
you know. So it's not like you've seen You've seen
glimpses of Carlton being really good, but that has felt
more like they have so many good players they have
to be good. So I'd be more willing to make changes.

(14:56):
But yeah, it's unless something goes even more terrible wrong
over the next two months. I wouldn't be getting him
out of there. Not yet.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Okay. The Blues finish our look there at the footy
Landscape and they also start this next segment.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
And now on the Box Footy podcast, another strong edition
of Australia's favorite segment, Fair or fast.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yes, Max Hi, Tom Daconing has checked out fair or fast?

Speaker 3 (15:22):
Where's he going?

Speaker 2 (15:23):
Sint Kildo apparently?

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Oh right, So I didn't realize Carlton was a hotel.
Ah doesn't look great sort of the clips we saw
from the Friday night game as Collingwood did it, So.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
I don't know what it was. The long string to
bow Dord, Yeah, that was good. That one.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
Whatever you call it. That saying no I meam just
a phrase.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
It's just it's just three writers not knowing how to speak. Yes,
it's concerning when you're seeing a player who is supposed
to be getting bought one point six one point seven
million next year if he goes to Saint Kilda performing
as he has that that's always going to be the
problem with paying a ruckman that sort of money. That
he has to be one of the better players in
the comp, which he was for a good portion of

(16:06):
this season to live up to that money. So that's concerning.
I would not be surprised at all if the last
month or two of in the headlines every day, every week,
all the time, because it's Carden, because it's free agency,
because it's trade and they're losing, so they're falling out
of the finals. It's a lot going on in his
life right now. Would be very easy to rock up

(16:26):
to work and not try one hundred percent every night.
I think a lot of people would do that in
their normal lives if they had as much going on
as he does.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
So, speaking of this trade landscape involving se Kilda, there
fork if Nasaiawanga a Miller hasn't re signed by the
start of round eighteen, Saint's officials and fans should be nervy,
fear or fast.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
I think that's a fair call. With Caroline Wilson reporting
last week that Nasiah's manager had asked for a two
year deal from Saint Kilda.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Which apparently they've got. He's on the tables, on the table, yeah,
I believe so.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
So if that isn't signed or informally, sorry, formally agreed
upon handshake verbally in that period, I don't understand why not.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
What more could he possibly want from secuities?

Speaker 4 (17:12):
Yeah, but to speak to the same sort of what
you were speaking before about Tom mcneys, i'd imagine this
would be playing a fair bit on the sire as well. Mentally.
I know he had an unbelievable game, had forty three
touches on Saturday.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
It did not look like it in the fourth quarter
againstor Thorne.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
No, he didn't, but just I would have thought. I'm
not in that position, but I would have thought signing
would probably be more beneficial than just waiting it out
for I'm not sure what purpose.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
But worked to Chad Warner earlier this year. He played
way better once he signed.

Speaker 4 (17:37):
Yes, he did, he did. I mean Rows had a
pretty good last couple of weeks. It's been sucking well,
so yes, but I would be nervy as a Saints fan.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
But it's this offer two seasons, as you mentioned, but
there's incentives and triggers to go potentially longer. From a
financial perspective, comes to the table a bit more with
Adelaide and Port Adelaide or what they would be willing to.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
Offer sat Kild's offer. Yes, I believe it's one point
for a season. Yeah, that would be more.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
I believe that's that's if he's hitting all of his incentives.

Speaker 4 (18:08):
Sorry, yes, yes, if he gets the max out of
the contract, I believe that's slightly more than what Port
and Adelaide would get him.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Hasn't swung towards him staying at Some Kilda.

Speaker 4 (18:17):
Now, so my read on this from the start was
at Port Adelaide were the favorites. It has become very
very great and hard to read from my position, but
this is the best thank kil to have sat like
right now at the time of recording, the best thank
you would have sat in this whole process, in my opinion.
But every day that goes by, I would be swinging
back towards Port Adelaide. I think I think Bergmann signing

(18:37):
at Port will it helps Port more than it does Adelaide.
I think the retention of guys like Rosie Butters, Horn, Francis,
George Yards and Bergman, it's a hell of a five
Port have going in that same age group, plus Butters
who is there for another year if he stays on
long term. That's in my opinion, that's six players that

(18:58):
can win you're a premiership with decently surround them. So
I would imagine that would help Port. But right now
Saint Kilda still Crows have had a very good offer
on the table for a long time, long term for
the sire but I don't see them as the favorite
of the two South Australian clubs.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
It does make sense also that much like Bergman has
signed the short term deal before possibly going home. Yep,
you get the money right now. You hope your value
goes up as the salary cap continued to go up,
and then you get the long term deal that sets
you up even more for life in your home state
in a couple of years time.

Speaker 4 (19:28):
Yes, and obviously Tasmania coming in to the picture, they
will be able to only helps, only helps. They'll be
able to pitch massive offers for any player who's indifferent
to playing at home or away or staying at the
current club, and that probably forces clubs in South Australia
for players not the sire to raise their value as well.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
To drive up the market.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
Max changes need to be made in Essenon's high performance department,
fair Off.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
As a high performance athlete myself, I'm well across the
importance of field firmness.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
I thought this would be the first response that would
come back.

Speaker 3 (19:58):
Thank you, only the hangar is bad. I guess there is.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
A I think you could genuinely lay with this an
injury crisis.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
Certainly they're having a lot of injuries and there is
a lot of smoke to the fire. Like usually, I
look at an injury crisis and go, okay, you've either
got a lot of injury prone players or you've got
a lot of bad luck. You know, Sydney had no
injuries last year. He had a lot of injuries this year.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
Bad luck, Brian, that's a good man.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
I remember that. I know. Bad luck Nick, Brian. Maybe okay,
we'll talk about it later. But there seems to be
some suggestions that playing on the indoor ovals as well
is a problem. I believe there was a former Vflwston
player escapes him right now who talked about that on
Twitter last night, how she had a session on the
indoor track there and felt in her quads, and then

(20:42):
some of the high performance people at the Bombers were
aware of that. And certainly when you're having a lot
of problems like they are, and a lot of soft
tissue injuries, you're looking at every possible solution. So whether
you're relaying to her, relaying ovals, there are certain places
where people get more injuries. Marvel a lot of acls
at the Gabba. You know, we got another one on
Saturday night with Power Pepper. So certainly there have to

(21:04):
be links between that, and you have to be considering this.
It's not like if you're going to have this happen
for Esendon, this is the right year to have it.
The year that it doesn't matter if you're going to
play finals. Be much worse if it's happening in two
three years time when you're trying to make the eight.
But if as long as they can come to a
solution it maybe it's a better thing for them long term. Well.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
AFL high Performance commentator and also AFL turf experts me.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
They call me doctor Turf. I believe I'm the first
one of that.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Fok Zach Merritt should reconsider his future at Essendon, fair
or fast.

Speaker 4 (21:37):
I think if he's playing at a club like Essendon
who's in that sort of middle to the lower part
of the table and has been for so long, I
think he would be well with his rights smart to
do so. I don't think that necessarily means acting upon it,
but I think he always has to be a jiblet
a player like him who is a sweep star who
has so much value and could be you know, slowed
into a team in the premiership we know so easily.

(21:57):
I think you always have to be thinking about those
things on his behalf.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
So he got a massive offer from some Kilda last year.
I believe it was.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
Not the club I've been moving sideways to at the moment.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
That's the problem is that the big money is not
necessarily at the big clubs.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
Yes, and I think as a captain you'd stay loyal
in that situation. I would imagine he would be on
a pretty good look I think as well as.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
So what wasn't there a story last year about him
renegotiating to get more money at the time. Yes, the
stay at SSS, so it makes sense paying what he's worth.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
It's more if it comes down to him getting He's
still very much in the prime of his career at
the moment, but he is. Yeah, priorities might be changing
where he might be looking at team's success as a
more of a priority than being financially rewarded. But again
it happened twelve months ago. Just a lot has changed.
We saw Essendon at the start of this season, without

(22:46):
shouting it from the rooftops, indicate that they have they're
rebuilding on the run at the moment. So the goalposts
have shifted a little.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
Bit from that perspective, the logical time to do it
would have been either last year or in a couple
of years time, because then you'll know if this build
does not work.

Speaker 4 (23:01):
Yes, so he turns thirty in October, says Google, So
in two years it must be true two years time.
But yeah, thirty two at his I guess most gun
midfielder is like him, probably hanging around to a thirty four,
thirty five, thirty six.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah. Like if you're a team in the premiership, we
know good signing for two three years at a thirty
two year old.

Speaker 4 (23:18):
Yeah, I think getting to that stage as well. If
success is on the horizon in two years time, you
want to be there for when that happens. You don't
want to do what sort of Brett de Leo didn't
leave Richmond. Yeah, such a crucial time. So I'm sure
that something you thinks about.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
Max, an AFL Cup would not only create excitement but
also help reduce the competitive advantage that exists in the
AFL fear or fast for who, Well, there's amount at
the moment it would you bring in the in season tournament. Yeah,
and then you also have you put on a gather

(23:49):
round and an arrivalry around. Everyone now plays each other
once plus those two rounds. It kind of even when
the competitive advance or competitive disadvantage.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
So this is a discussion that's happened at the CEO's meeting.
I believe on the Gold Coast, yes, because who doesn't
love a junket to the Gold Coast. And then they've
come up with this potential suggestion of replacing some games
in the fixture, and I think that that is the
only part with some merit, not Zach, but thank you
changing the fixture, because people do complain a lot about

(24:22):
the fact that there are you know, you get six
double ups or seven double ups, whatever it ends up
being now, and it's unreasonable that some teams have more
bad teams than others. I think it's okay as an
equalization tool generally works pretty well. Port and Brisbane of
the two hardest remaining fixtures because of a lot of
their double up games. They won the flag and finished
top two, respectively, So I guess it makes sense that

(24:43):
they have hard fixtures. But I'm struggling to find any
other positives to this idea. I'm not against change, I'm
not against trying things, and I do it I wouldn't
mind the cleanliness of having just you play each other
once you have your rivalry and gather rounds and then
go to this other stuff. I don't think that solves
that problem. It doesn't solve the problem of a boring

(25:04):
end of the season like we're having here, where you've
got all these dead rubbers coming up, because if you're
playing it at mid season, it doesn't matter if you're
playing it across the season. Okay, you've got one game
that people care about for rounds of the Cup, assuming
the bad teams make it deep into the Cup, which
they probably should't because they're bad team. So I think
the only real reason you would do this is money.
Because the discussion was around bringing this in when Tasmania

(25:27):
comes into the comp that lines up somewhat close to
the next AFL TV rights deal. The NBA, who they're
sort of aping with this by having an in season tournament,
brought in the NBA Cup to sell it as part
of their TV rights deal. They changed their system. They
changed to where they were partnering with different networks and
splitting things up. You get more money if you go
a piecemeal deal with a bunch of different networks. Selling

(25:49):
off these games, selling off that games, whatever it may be,
and the AFO, I think would love to consider that
in the future of like, hey, Friday night games, they're
on Amazon, Thursday night games, Ah, they're back on ten,
and then you've got the AFL Cup games are exclusively
on Google or on YouTube, whatever it may be. So
that's where you'd be looking for it. That's why it
would make some sense for the AFL to do. I
do not like it from a pure competitive standpoint because

(26:11):
I don't think anyone will care about those games, because
why would we.

Speaker 4 (26:14):
I think this boils down to two things. One, do
we get to play on really cool grounds like I
do in the NBA where the court just changes color
completely to paint them black? Paint them black?

Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yeah, okay great?

Speaker 4 (26:25):
And secondly revolves around when do we get the twentieth
AFL team, not the nineteenth, but the twentieth, because I
think I'm joking there, but I think it would be
good for the shortening of a fixture. And all of
this makes more sense when we have twenty teams because
then you can have nineteen and then your rivalry game.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
I think we can still we gathering. You're not getting
read to gather around. So you've gotta have twenty one rounds,
now twenty one, you have twenty one and then you
have three rounds of the AFL Cup. I haven't run
the numbers on that, and that would get you back
to twenty four weeks of footy. So that feels the year,
doesn't you get? You get one less round? Could we
have opening around this year?

Speaker 2 (27:00):
I guess there's got to be more incentives than cash.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
Then well yeah, because I don't care as a fan
if the players are earning a bonus for winning the
AFL Cup. And I don't think a lot of players
would care, because if you're talking about a five million
dollar prize ball in total, how much are the twenty
two players splitting who win that? Like the best players
are getting what like fifty grand or something. It's nice,
but if you're on one point two one point three
mel already, it's not a huge difference in your lives.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
Better than the smack in the face.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
No sure, and the lower list of players would cop it.
I would love it, but that doesn't matter. Like the
idea of having it be for a finals place is horrendous.
I hate that idea. The integrity of the competition being
corrupted by that sounds terrible. Like if you're West Coast,
you win the AFL Cup, you rest your players for
the rest of the year.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Great, they put all their eggs into the AFL Cup.
They attack it.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
We only have to win four games this year instead
of twenty two. Like so many problems will.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
Gold Coast is parton the pun on a collision course
with the AFL over umpire contact, fair or fast.

Speaker 4 (28:00):
I think I would have sat on the fence until
I was watching Saturday's game between Sen and Gold Coast,
and I love Matt Rower. There was zero change in
the way that he played on Saturday. Admitted that post
game he did he went very cold when Sarah asked,
I thought was a pretty reasonable question as to whether
or not he had changed his game style. So I

(28:20):
think that tells me that, yes, they are on a
collision course, and they are more than willing to cop
whatever sanctions come their way in the hope that the
AFL will change their hand. I'm not sure that would happen.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
They're daring the AFL to suspend him, yeah, because they
know that they would be in the public's eyes in.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
The right A great game of Chicken to watch live,
But I don't think the AFL would budge on that.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, and I think Ben Cotton reported last week that
he's if it does get to the threshold of four incidents,
that is highly unlikely at that stage. Yes, it would
go to the tribe, but still highly unlikely that that
play would be suspended.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
Unless it's really obviously like intentional or something crazy.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
Yeah, it's just a careless thing, like we normally say,
it's not going to be a week is it?

Speaker 4 (29:03):
Is it considered? How much leeway do you have to
be considered careless? Now that they made it so abundantly clear.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
That the bar has to be higher, because everyone's aware
of it, and because I think the AFL is clearly
the umpires have clearly complained to the AFL about this.
Could you how you get to this if.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
You're the AFL the match review officer, could you sell
it or spin it that it is intentional from a
Matt Row perspective because you are trying to use the
umpire as a screen.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
Well, but the word intentional in the match review context
does not mean intentional. But theoretically, just looking at it,
you would go, oh yeah, he meant to use him
as a screen, absolutely, because that's clearly a tactic.

Speaker 4 (29:37):
Maybe the umpires should umpire in those you know, those
like big rubber balls.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
Okay, bubbles, but they'd still be moving slower, so they'd
get knocked over and then they'd have a worse view
of the contest, and then we'd have more umpiring spaces.
You've just given us more content.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
How about that they only do that in the in
game tournament.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
Okay, special umpire ball bubble rules on black turf? Interesting, Okay,
I would watch these games? Does this? Does getting rid
of bouncers help? If we just do ball ups, like
just throwing it up every time.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
And then you get then you'll get people like Leigh
Matthews and even Brad Scott last night saying the game's ruined.
Rockwork is is now extinct from.

Speaker 3 (30:19):
Right, but you can still put You could still try
and tweak the rules around rockwork so that players have
to run a more instead of just wrestling the whole.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
So we go back to the we get rid of
the circle, and we go back to the big run up,
which we got rid of because there were so many
ruck pc injuries.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
I'm never going to get this right, that's too much happening.
I don't want to think about this anymore.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
It was to just get your brain working a little
bit more for your maxim revelations. The AFL, who is
losing fifty million dollars a year for the AFL, is
further proof the competition expanded too quickly, fair or fast.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
So that's fair, and that's clearly the main mistake that
has led to the position of the AFOW right now
has no momentum. You know, the talent spread too thin.
Like people complain about the AFL talent being spread too thin. Well,
the AFOW talents, it's way worse for them because they
haven't had pathways to develop into alle years until Like literally,
if you were a ten year old when AFOW started,

(31:16):
you're only now getting drafted. You've only now been able
to dream about being an elite athlete your entire most
of your childhood. So look, it's going to change over
the years. We're gonna get Like I saw some comments
over the weekend about someone who umpires like under sixteen's
women's girls games and said, the talent is basically as
good as a food. Yeah, the standard is there very
much so yep, so that's going to take over the

(31:36):
comp it's going to be better. So that's certainly a problem.
I think the problem I have with this article. So
Caroline also put this out on the weekend. I just
disagree with the framing of it. So you know who
else loses money? Several AFL clubs. The Suns need twenty
five million a year to stay afloat the Giants get
somewhere near that, The Saints North Melbourne, the Bulldogs maybe

(31:58):
still relying on AFL funding. Team gets a certain amount
of money, but they get the smaller Victorian clubs and
the expansion clubs get more. VFL also needs money to run.
It's not a profitable enterprise and the AFL. This is
one of those problems where the AFL is both the
league and the governing body. If it was purely a
for profit thing, it would not worry about AAFOW is

(32:18):
losing all this money. Well, let's sell it off or
let's let private investment buy these teams. They can deal
with all those problems. But no, they have to run
the game. They have to run the sport, not just
the league. So they have to accept these losses, and
you know it's for the good of women's sport in Australia,
women's football and all of those things. So I just
felt that it was an interesting and strange article to

(32:39):
write because it only adds more negativity to the situation.
And I don't dispute that it's factual, but it was
framed in a way that the AFL is going wrong
and the league needs to do something about this. When
they've made their mistakes, they just need to almost just
have patience that eventually it will work out. Like women's
sport broadly speaking, is going pretty well globally right now.

(32:59):
WN certainly going hugely with Caitlyn Clark. Maybe in a
two three years time we get that sort of generational
figure who breaks out into the mainstream consciousness. And girls
are paying money to go see all of these games,
so crowds will go up. Don't forget the ticket prices
have come in over the for the last few years
in AFLW and that is a big reason why the
crowd figures have gone down from the initial few seasons.

(33:20):
So there's a lot of factors going in and I
just found it a very negative piece at a time
in the compas yes, made mistakes, but needs some optimism.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
All right, and four club clubs need to be more
cautious naming first year players for so many games in
their opening campaigns, fair or fast.

Speaker 4 (33:38):
I assume this is in relation to Sam lawd Yes etal.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
So, we've had three hundred and eighty three games missed
by top thirty draft d's this season due to injury
due to injury, a similar number last year in the
year before that, but in twenty twenty one it was
only one hundred and forty seven games missed, So it's
actually spiking a little bit in the last few seasons.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
That's after COVID drafts.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yes, as well, So I.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
Think it was a less just less those players getting drafted.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
Those players weren't necessarily getting into the comps straight away. Yes,
they weren't as impressive.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah, I agree with that also. And the other thing tonight,
Richmond had a lot of first round drafteeds last year
and almost by necessity, have had to rely on these
first year players a lot well.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
And like Tyler Shotton had an ACL coming in so he's.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Missed all these games and apparently he's ready to go.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
So they've had a lot of injuries to deal with.
So their specific case.

Speaker 4 (34:31):
But they did, look Richmond say, they took the conservative
approach with Lawa. They rested him that extra week when
they believed he could have played last week.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
So I don't know.

Speaker 4 (34:41):
Internally, they probably think they's done the right thing. They
rested in a week earlier than what they could have.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
So the conversation around this was that Jason Dunnson was
pushing the oda an A four three sixty that these
first year players let them off the leash. It's fine.
But Gary Lyon was pointing saying, maybe we're putting too
many games into them straight away. So is that is
that a development issue? Is that they need to given
more time on the sidelines in an ideal scenario, some
clubs just can't afford to do that.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
No, I think that's probably more the case because then
Gary pointed to Geelong, right, and that George Stevens comes
in on the weekend and has a record number of
score modern day score involvements. Someone pointed out that John
Coleman or Gordon Coventry had the same number of score
involvements on at least on debut.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
But Champion Dad it was very good back there in
the thirties.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
So and Olie Dempsey wins the Rising Star Award and
his third year didn't play very much in his at
all across his first two years, so there is But
Geelong is one harder team to break into and can
afford to have these players on the sidelon for a
bit longer, whereas as I mentioned, Richmond have six first
round draftees last year and have to play Harry Armstrong

(35:45):
and Luke Traynor in there in round one to actually
fill a spot.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Is the suggestion that these are just younger bodies breaking
down because they're not used to playing footy every week
like they would have been playing footy every week growing up.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
They played the play footy every not the same but no,
but not the same. They're not against particularly the Victorian
particularly Victorians, and there's not too many from South Australia
and Western a Stradia that are playing against bigger bodies
every week. There's only a select few that only play
league level. Sandful and Warfall.

Speaker 4 (36:15):
Yeah I can only speak from in the Sandful, but
they highly encourage players going through the reserves. Sorry not encouraged,
but they just don't play league. They play reserves and
under eight and aen football a lot of drafts do that. Actually, yeah,
I would like to think that the high performance and
recovery and everything that comes along with that is as
good as it has been. I can only imagine that's
the case. So yeah, I think it very much points

(36:37):
towards what you said, Ben. It is just Richmond have
had to play the matter of the necess and this
sometimes happens with young bodies.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
But they are like from a global sport perspective, like
they are first year players are young compared to guys
getting drafted out out of college in the States.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
So the NBA, you can draft them after one year
of college, so what they're nineteen, But even then, like
they get slowly worked into things and NBA players get
injured all the time anyway and get managed constantly. The
NFL obviously has a few years of college before you
can play in that league. Football is different because you're
playing at lower levels and working your way up if
you're a superstar talent, or you're being scattered initially, so

(37:15):
it just works in a different way. But yeah, like
eighteen year olds going straight into the top level is
a rarity that we enjoy and we love to see
it when a player comes in and as a superscar
straight away. But then there are way, way way more
kids that just struggle with it, which makes sense.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Meat edition of Fair or Fast. Have we got a
meat edition of the mail bag? Oh?

Speaker 4 (37:34):
We do.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Here we are on the Fox Woody podcast. It's time
to open up the mailbag. Have a question for the panel.
Tweetus every Monday morning at Fox Footy.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
Several meats involved in this favorite meat.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
I do like a hamburger.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
Okay, yeah, not a meat, but thank you.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (37:54):
Chicken is that poultry?

Speaker 3 (37:56):
Yeah, it's the most very versatile chicken. It is very useful.
We have a lot of mailbag questions taken everyone who's
written in on Monday morning on Twitter, Twitter loud and
then you respond and we've got some very interesting ideas here.
Max starts us off.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
Not me, not a self questions.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
I would just bring it up. I wouldn't do this
weird framing around the mail deck. Will finals ever be
played at Marvel again? Or is the incentive for crowd
attendance too much despite the AFL owning the ground. If
we get a first round finals week with Collingwood, Geelong,
the Bulldogs and Hawthorne hosting, would they all be played
at the MCG.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
No, I think, yeah, I think they would. Wouldn't they
play on the Sunday?

Speaker 3 (38:37):
Yes, I believe they've said that they would play one
on the Sunday if necessary.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
What happens though, if I was just thinking a couple
of years ago, the AFL could have done it when
sin Kilda played the Giants and they still played at
the MCG and got thecent crowds, still didn't they?

Speaker 3 (38:52):
I think it was over the Marvel limit. It's like
low high fifties, low sixties from memory. Yeah, so it's
because that was the MCC game that you get into
that weekend basically. Yeah, sixty eight four and sixty certainly
the biggest crowd to see those two teams play.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
So I think after that it's after that game, it's
very hard to see finals returning to Marvel. When Hawthorne
played Adelaide on that Friday night a few weeks ago
and the lead up, I'll turn on fox Foot in
the lead up to that game and the Buddy Elimination
final where he kicks serving it's Adelaide. The atmosphere looked absolutely.

Speaker 4 (39:25):
The roof open open.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
Imagine, there's so many things wrong with it's like AI
basically never would have seen that.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
I can't see it. I can't see it happening in
the short term.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
It's also you've got to keep in one that the
Marvel is most useful right now when the weather is
crap in Melbourne and mcg games. If you look at
the scoring goes really far down in the depths of winter,
but Marvel games Boork's North was a high scoring spectacle,
so you don't really need to worry about that once
you get September because it starts warming up. Yeah, John

(39:57):
had a question about scrapping the Bounce, but he brought
up the fact that at least three or four are
mistakes every game. That's twelve seconds a game we're losing
and that might decide the premiership. They got another reason
to scrap it.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Well, could we talk We've talked, and we've talked about
game length increasing this year and the fact that three
twenty Sunday games have had to go back to three
fifteen Sunday games. It all kind of it all kind
of adds up.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
Helps us too. But yes, they need to get to
the news.

Speaker 4 (40:25):
Eager fans can watch Bounce five minutes earlier.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
That's very true, yes, which people will nearly die this
week find out. On Turn It Up, William Grant asks
is the Hawks back line overloaded with tools and given
Sicily's drop in forms, should they even consider dropping him?

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Dropping Sicily? Yes? Well, this has been a constant discussion
around the Hawks this year, and I always thought it
was an intriguing move. They brought two players in Battle
and barrass Clearly they had identified I want to bolster
at that back there, but I think there's two much
evidence now to suggest that it. Yeah, there's too much

(41:05):
evidence now that it's clear that James Cicily's form has
been influenced by the arrival of the two players.

Speaker 4 (41:12):
Been a perennial question in our weekly blow Torch segment
on the Fox Sports.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
But I thought, ever, we can't think of anything I
would think.

Speaker 4 (41:21):
I always thought that the reason they brought it, one
of the main reasons behind bringing in both Barras and
Battle was the ability to bring James Cecily forward, which
we really haven't seen that much, certainly not when I've
watched Hawthorn games anyway, So I don't know. I'm sort
of waiting for Sam Mitchel to flip that magnet and
see him up forward.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
He's been hesitant to do that.

Speaker 4 (41:38):
He has.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
I've been frantically trying to find the box Hill Hawks,
the Hawks mitchis so they've been playing so they they
have a lot of talent in their VFL team.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
They do, mitche Lewis and Calshadeer got another six goals
I think between them on the weekend.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
Vin McGinness, Henry Hustbital and Joycero on Jack Scrimshaw, Will McCabe, yeh,
Trent Biancos there not af Elstid but no, but I
just I recognize the name, so I read it out
because I'm a sure attention span, Sam Frost, James Blank,
a lot of key defenders lost and yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
And James Blank did an ACL in preseason last year
and hasn't been able to sort of get back into
the AFL team.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
But there's genuinely like three or four guys who would
be playing at a lot of other teams.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
And the midweek tackle guys who do the tackle the
headline segment for us on for a YouTube page and
ko they often I think I reckon three times this
year have thrown out several fringe Hawthorne players and aren't
getting an AFL game that would get AFL games if
they went to a different club.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
They may have the best squad depth from the comp
and if they do well at the end of the season,
that would be a big reason why I suspect cool.
Let's finish off with this question from Emlyn, who asks,
this is a slightly slightly wrestling related question I'll admit
is the way to make people care about a midseason
tournament by awarding the winner a money in the bank

(43:02):
contract to challenge the reigning premiere for the Cup at
a time of the contract holders choosing Brisbane finish a game,
get on their feet bench in Carnage, the big Big
Sound starts playing and the Giants come out to beat
them for the twenty twenty fourth flag.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Like that, But do they have to get their hands
on the briefcase mid game first before you can know?

Speaker 3 (43:24):
So, the Giants would already have the briefcase, right, and
then and then Adam Kingsley would go to the umpire
on the bench and cash it in, and then his
team would run out of the rooms and onto the ground,
kicking the joining the match in progress. Right, because you
can have a triple threat.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Man, so Gold Coast Brisbane Collingwood game that was actually a.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
Rehearsal for the money in the man cash of people
know that, so they come in and they and then
they win the game. Although that have to if they're
doing it from behind, don't do it in the fourth
quarter because the other team would have had three quarters
to score and you won't have much time. So that's
a problem.

Speaker 4 (43:54):
I feel like the number of PCO injuries could go
through the roof with three ruckmen going out in bounds.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
Like you can't all wrestle each other at once.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
It's like how the XFL used to start, Yes.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
Running at the ball very first time the XFL did
that guy pops his shoulder out. Oh what stupidly the
NFL but wrestling shockha, it was really dumb.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
We'll keep tabs on that. We'll keep you updated if
it's a possibility Emlin going forward. That's the end of
the mail bag and for the now, Kevin she time
once again. This is his second book that he's released.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
This is correct, let's hear from him. Gey. Thank you
Kevin for giving us your thoughts in book form, because
this is well, you haven't seen this book yet, but

(44:49):
it is the first book in the I presume Sheed's
series a touch of cunning with the ghost baby on
the front cover ghost Baby, but like an I assume
all things of black and white eye ghosts. So this
is Kevin Sheedy the first highlight of the text there well,
because there's a whole chapter on his has brought brief

(45:10):
district cricket career to this first book is more about
Cheety the man and as a player than as a coach,
and what he went through.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
And wrote, his worldwide musings and the political views.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
There's a lot of that too, as I mentioned about
his views on the Roumanians. At one point, I'm skipping
that part of the book. Maybe we'll get to it
late in the season if we've run out of options.
But this is she's talking about when he was the
captain of Richmond in nineteen seventy eight.

Speaker 4 (45:35):
That's nice.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
Actually, this begins with the patters from the author. Kevin
spoke for more than two hours on the alleged injustice
of what happened to him in March nineteen seventy eight
as a Richmond footballer who was a member of the
Richmond Cricket Club. It was a disgraceful performance. He said,
I can't sum it up any plainer than that. Disgraceful, disloyal,
bloody infuriating. When I think of it now in nineteen

(46:00):
ninety five, I get annoyed. What happened was that I'd
always fancied myself as a bit of a cricketer. I
loved leg spin. My brother Pat was a bloody good cricketer.
At one stage in the late in the nineteen eighties
he coached Shane Warne, so he knows what leg break
bowling is all about, alright, That's what I was. A
leg spinner, a leggy right from the start at primary

(46:20):
school and at four Pinna Park in perm God. Then
when I was thirty, only a year after i'd taken
cricket up seriously, there I was playing district cricket. It
was practically unheard of. I'd come from the fourth to
the first at Richmond in one year, and then I
was given the chance of replacing a Test spin bowler
in a district cricket final. I was the understudy to

(46:41):
leg spinner Jim Higgs in the Richmond First and Jim
was away with the Australian side in the West Indies
at timely he's a Test selector now. Jimmy a good man.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
A credit to Richmond.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Never mind, in nineteen seventy seven seventy eight he bowled
in six innings, took thirteen maidens fourteen wickets at twenty
three thirty six. I took thirteen wickets at sixteen twenty three.
I'm not saying I was anywhere near as good as
Jimmy Higgs. I wasn't, but I was working at being
a good bowler for Richmond, and I should have been
given my chance in the final. For a little while

(47:12):
I had the best of both worlds. I was allowed
to play in the build up to the finals and
we went our way through. It was wonderful, but Graham
Richmond decided I was needed for football duties full time,
and Octor Wilson delivered his message. Geez, I thought I'd
go mad, Shedy said white Hot at anger at the
memory seventeen years later. How many sportsmen get the chance
to play in our premiership football team and a district

(47:34):
cricket final. It was the chance of a lifetime.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
So he spoke for two hours on our issue. Yes
about Tom Pryor is whittled down AVT.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
But there I was in March nineteen seventy eight, thirty
years of age, with only eight or nine games experience,
and I was selected to replace a Test bowler in
a district cricket final and I had to knock it back.
I have never forgotten it or the people concerned. I
don't suppose I ever will.

Speaker 4 (48:03):
There's like roughly twenty five the grade cricketers running through
my head at the moment. I'm not going to bore
you with them, but that's incredible. The one interesting part
of that Max and Ben that I did appreciate with
him saying he went from the fourth grade to the
first grade in a year, same season.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
In about eight or nine games.

Speaker 4 (48:22):
That is something that is a perennial conversation across grade
cricket circles. And I think we may have even played
this game before.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Ben.

Speaker 4 (48:29):
How many hundreds do you have to make from fourth
grade consecutively to then play Test cricket? Sety would have
done that in wickets form by the sound, Yes, but
it's a very fun game, does it.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
Okay. Let's say though, that the Richmond Cricket Club is
looking for someone to play fourths and they pick the
Richmond Tigers AFL captain. Surely he would be given a
leg up in his chances of playing first of his publicity.

Speaker 4 (48:53):
I'm sure he would be looked upon favorably by the selectors.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
Plays into it, even when he's just a back.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
If you turn up for us and killed a fourth,
are you guaranteed to go up to the thirds the
next week? No?

Speaker 1 (49:04):
No?

Speaker 3 (49:04):
Why do they have set some stone rules like that,
like just that you get to manditary promotion? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (49:09):
Yeah, pro rell should be my non existent contract. But
you would go from fourth grade, third grade, second grade,
first grade, yeah, second eleven for your state, yes, state,
and then test cricket. I reckon, you're going to make
like high teens.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Well, look, all he's saying was he was better than
a test cricketer at that time, and then he got
robbed of the chance. So Kevin is right to be.
I just felt that he would be annoyed if you
brought that up today. By the sounds of things it does.

Speaker 4 (49:33):
It just sounds like something. What he was saying, in
other words, is like my best attribute is being humble.
That's what it sort of felt like throughout that copasaes
you're rhyming.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
That's why I'm bringing up my numbers.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Well, looking forward to dissecting and grilling Kevin about that
on our Fox Footy Grand Final.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
Show making promises we can't keep.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Let's look ahead to round seventeen, which has a little
bit more juice in it compared to round sixteen, to
say the least. As I mentioned, moving round, probably not
necessarily on Thursday night as Carlton host Brisbane for the
Richard Hadley Cup, not former New Zealand staff, former Carlton
and Brisbane l e Y two thousand and three Premiership
player Richard Hadley.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
Now the thing is, Ben, I saw a graphic on
the Fox Foody social channels. We just talked about the
Big Boy Week and it had all the games for
the contenders and Carlton Brisbane was mentioned because Brisbane. This
is true, but I think that was clearly us trying
to click bait everyone into mocking Carlton and and honestly
I did not do that.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
We just I just happened.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
I just told the social guys to make that graphic
and I just thought it is a relevant game Brisbane
because Brisbane are gonna win.

Speaker 4 (50:37):
I think it probably that graphic it probably heard that
Carlton was the very first team. This is tra at home.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
This is true, So another reason why Thirs Carlton should
not be playing on Thursday nights.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
Yes, right, so we then moved to Friday night. Gold
Coast will host its first ever game at People First
Stadium on Friday night, and reasonably large one against Collingwood.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Yes, I think you could argue the biggest game in
club history. When would they have played a more important
one with their finals chances more? I mean, the most
important game in club history was same team, same event
twenty fourteen. Brent mccaffe tackles and does his shoulder that.
Keep in mind though the Ablett game that was ruined

(51:22):
their season, ruined their best chance at finals. The Suns
won that game. They did. They came back and beat
the Pies in that night, so that twilight, so they
certainly could win. I would be tipping Collingwood because they
just looked too good right now. But this is their
drawers really ramping up. Collingwood. I think have not played
any double ups yet, unless Carlton was a double up.
They've played everything that's rare in the modern age. They've

(51:44):
basically just played everyone once as yees, so they haven't had.
They've only played six games, six or seven games against
the top nine. It's very odd. So that's they're they're
inflated slightly on the ladder because of that. Like they're
very good, they're clearly a contender, but they are gettable.
But I will be tipping the Pies.

Speaker 4 (52:03):
I will be tipping the Pies as well. I didn't
realize that was the first Friday night. This will be
the first Friday night.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
Is there a Thursday night game in there?

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Maybe once?

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Yes, not a Richmond one, was it not recently?

Speaker 2 (52:13):
But and of course they've played on a Thursday night
in Darwin.

Speaker 4 (52:16):
Yeah, maybe that's some time. But that's awesome Collinwood and
it'll be.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Large crowd school holidays, everyone heading north as well, so
it should be of course for the Henry Shade Cup.
Meant to say as well Western Bordogs and Adelaide for
the Shane Ellen Cup Shane Ellen Dull Premiership. Crow killed
the Saints in ninety seven.

Speaker 3 (52:35):
They played Richard on a Thursday night in twenty twenty
one at Docklands.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
Matt Marvel, that's right, did Goldcos win that? Yes they did,
they did, I remember that.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
And then twenty twenty but that doesn't count because they
also they had a stretch in twenty twenty because of
COVID of course where they played Thursday, Sunday, Thursday, Wednesday, Monday, Friday.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Glorious time.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
Imagine that, and we covered them all. What else were
we going to do? This is a very important game,
is it not.

Speaker 4 (53:01):
It's a very.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
Important game top four for the Crows and keeping in
touch with the Dogs.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
This is normally a Mars Stadium special, but of course
is marvel so that they moved.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
This, like after all the complaints about Mars Stadium and
bell are at not being built properly. The diggers on
the air of side, yes, which was great for Tom
but not great for people going to the Stadium's a
big step back for him.

Speaker 4 (53:24):
I'm sure you get refunds on the tickets to Mars.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Been unfortunately not still waiting.

Speaker 3 (53:28):
A big fan of Space because he would have liked that.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
He's in the stars at the moment.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
Yes, let's go to ours, dad, you'd think the Bulldogs,
Like the problem for the Bulldogs is that like they
need to show their contender, but their defense is yeah,
and Adelaide's attack is terrifying and under the lead would
only be more so, but without joshuh Shelley. Yes, yes,

(53:52):
I'm tipping the Dogs, keeping the faith. But the next
two weeks against Crows.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
And huge opportunity for Adelaide, isn't it massive?

Speaker 4 (53:58):
Massive?

Speaker 3 (53:59):
And I think I've almost meant top four if they win.

Speaker 4 (54:01):
Yeah. Yeah, under the Dome should suit their style of play,
but I think Michelle is a pretty big out. I'm
going Dogs. They last lost to the Crows and Marble
Stadium in Round six twenty fourteen.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
Well they've only played there like twice since.

Speaker 4 (54:16):
Right, we don't tell them that it still makes it still.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Could be a bit eleven year first, the Giants host
the Cats for the time on a Dawson Simpson Cup.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
Yes, of course. Look, this is a moment where Geelong
should prove it is a league above the Giants, I
think because I still don't completely trust the Giants as
much as other people do. So it's also the toughest
game left on Gelong's fixture, right, it's the only top
nine game they have left, so even if they stumble,
they're going to be fine. But there's I will be

(54:46):
tipping Geelong, and I don't usually tipped along of these
close games because I love an emotional hedge, but I
think I have to go with them.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
I'm going to GWS.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
I think, okay, yeah, well it's another tip I make
up on you.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
Then, of course, the Giants beat the Cats in Geelong
earlier on this season Richmond and Essen for the Matt
d Cup that.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
Quietly on g WS. Gelong GWS in this decade four
and zero against the Cats in Geelong, zip and two elsewhere, yeah, right,
including the semi final they played at Doctor Stadium. Of course,
the week before all the Geelong players went in the
Spa and got sick.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
That's right for the faith thumped.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
The Giants didn't the well it was it was like
six goals, but it was not convincing. At the same time,
the Giants didn't feel like that.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
And then Gelong got pummeled by Melbourne in the Premium.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
Yes, yeah, by a million. Richmond Essen in this it's
just like a fake dream time game because it's on
a Saturday night, but it's not the dream time game.
Liston should win this even with their injuries, you would think.

Speaker 4 (55:44):
Should should A.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
Lot of should around this in.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Richmond's not in the same ballparks and they.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
Have fallen off the last few weeks, haven't they Like
it makes sense that they're tiring.

Speaker 4 (55:55):
The conversation we had a couple of weeks ago about
Richmond and West Coast tiring off certainly has been the
case with Richmond Es and then should win, but could
be a danger game.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
Fremantle and Hawthorne for Trent crowed Cup. Trent gets extra
points because he went Hawthorne Freemantle back to Hawthorne, Right.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
Big move this is I think this is the biggest
game of the round in terms of vinyls rays implications
these team seasons yep, freo like. It's both acceptable if
they lose given the opponent, and really really damaging because
they basically in this situation where you want to get
to fourteen wins. I think they've got four home games

(56:36):
left and a trip to play Port in Adelaide, so
that's five winnable games. But like these home games, they've
got Hawthorne coming, they've got Brisbane coming later in the year.
They need to beat one of these good teams at home.
So if they don't do it now, they're losing all
their margin for error. They'll keep falling further and further back.
So big night for them. I will lean Freemantle because

(56:56):
of the importance of the game for them, and because
it's at home. I'm leaning Hawthorne, but very very indecisive,
genuine fifty.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
To fifty game. But this is the kind of game
that if Freemantle is the real deal, they beat Hawthorne
at home well.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
And they've had these weeks where they just perk up
once they get back home and play better, like I'm
thinking of the Adelaide game for example.

Speaker 4 (57:16):
Yeah, randomball, but yes.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Yes, Melbourne and North Melbourne for the Camp Pettersen.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
Cups Sunday not quite at the level of Saturday if
I'm honest, that's a little bit of juice. I mean,
the teams playing each other around the same like fourteenth
or sixteenth could be close. Melbourne Melbourne's Melbourne is way
better than what are they five and eleven.

Speaker 4 (57:35):
They're so much better.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
There's so much better than that. And they've played a
few close games against good teams, like they could have
beaten Collingwood easily. You know, they could easily be mid
table but in a normal year, but instead they're down
where they are. They should witness it.

Speaker 4 (57:46):
Though, yes they should.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Do so.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Can you see the Demons spiking next year, then Maxie,
I could.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
I think they're they're fine. They're a fine team, and
they've done so well to recover from being Zip five
that I have absolutely no questions of Assimon Goodwin's future
like that. Maybe that's going to come up because they're
going to end up what seven or eight wins and
that's pretty disappointing. But at the same time, I think
he's they've done reasonably well to recover and he's had
a been a pretty good coach since round six.

Speaker 4 (58:14):
I can't see a world where he's not coaching.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
No, I think he's Yeah, I think he's done enough.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
Yeah, the vibe isn't there that they're going to sack him.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Sint Kilda and Sydney for the Trent Dennis Lane Cup.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Yes TDL. This is another very tough one, I think
because Sint Kilda just has those random games are they're
way better than they should be. And Sydney, you know,
they've had a few good weeks, but now playing away
I will tip the Swans. But another this is the
best Sunday game, so they've put it in the in
three fifteen times slot for a reason correctly, so Sydney.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Let me finish with a blockbuster between Port Adelaide and
West Coast. Lewis Stevenson come up, cup up for grabs here.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
Bounce, producer celebrating and it's good fortune and have such
a big lead in game. Of course, Brattles of all
the people watching Port Adelaide surely take care of West Coast.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
Yeah they should. I can actually see this one. This
is not a controversial take, but I could see this
one blowing out. I think, yeah, yeah, it feels like
a game that put just whack a old team at
home and makes them look better than what they are
on the ladder panage wise, maybe they need that same thing.

Speaker 3 (59:13):
It's the same thing with Port though they're about where
they should be this sort of ninth to twelfth bracket.
In a normal year they would be two games out
of the eight instead of three and percentage.

Speaker 4 (59:24):
So they've had a pretty tough run with injury this
year as well.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
Tough run with injury, tough draw, they've had the misfortune.
They played very well on Saturday night against Brisbane amid
the injuries.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
So yes Port, and of course the big news before
we went to air MAXI was Corn's departs.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
Yes by Chad Chad Corn. Chad Corn to the assistant
coach change. Assistant coach change season has arrived earlier than
I expected, but yes, I look forward to seeing what
news dot com dot you guys to say about Korn's
is sad news Yeah of the two brothers.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Keep clicking back to Foxfooty dot com dot are.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
You Thanks for listening to the Fox Footy podcast.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
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Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
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