Fox Footy Podcast: Are Lions, Crows set for straight sets exits?

Max Laughton, Ben Waterworth and Ben Cotton review week 1 of the 2025 AFL finals and preview the semi-finals on the Fox Footy Podcast, with breakdowns of the qualifying and elimination final results and what they mean for the flag race, plus Fair or Farce, the Mailbag, Sheeds' Wisdom and much more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The big footy issues from every angle, dissected by a
team that follows the game closer than anyone else wherever
you are around the planet. This is your ultimate guide
to the AFL. This is the Fox Footy Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
And then there were six and perhaps the six week
didn't expect prior to the first week of finals. In fact,
if you tipped zero out of four on the weekend,
you might be in the majority. For three teams thrived
on the road and the raining premiers were humbled by
a team not technically playing on their home home ground.
We'll hone in on the now sixteen race for the Cup,

(00:37):
plus dissect all the lad Us trade whispers and footy
issues in Fair or Fast and the mail Bag, as
well as here retrospectively from Kevin Sheedy, whose wisdom continues
to amaze us. Hello and welcome to the Fox Footy Podcast.
Ben Waterworth with you, as is the man on World
Record Pace on Saturday night to tweet about giants expected
score posters.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Max Lord, Hello, mate, what do you suggest.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
To thank you that I'm very ready to put that out.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
That I was very conscious of the fact that they've
made a habit of out kicking expected score and then
they get to the finals and the opposite happens. It's
a trend I find that teams have a you have
a weakness, so you have a certain trait and then
it gets reversed in the finals. And for kick very
well didn't they Yes, so that's not the Giant's fault.
The Hawks just kicked out of their skins and then
Freo lost a close one. So these things happen.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yes, And also joining us is the man with his
trade eat of the ground and very relieved objective pies
leaning supporter in Cotton. Hello BC.

Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yes, thank you very much gents for having me on,
and yes, very relieved. Last this time last week I
would have said that the Crows and the Lines would
be playing, would be hosting qualifying finals, prelim finals. Sorry,
but here we are with the reverse results, so very exciting.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Weagon good to know we've got someone very knowledgeable a
football and.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Just so that leads us into our first burning question
out of the weekend, who are you most worried about
this weekend? Max? Out of Adelaide and Brisbane.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
I think it's Brisbane. I think because we did say
last week that the one matchup that could happen out
of that side of the bracket where I could see
an upset would be a pineapple grapple. Yes, with the
Suns getting to play the lines again.

Speaker 4 (02:10):
Can I make a weird comment? I don't know if
this is going to make sense?

Speaker 5 (02:13):
Please do.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
I'm more worried about Brisbane, but I think Hawthorne is
a better chance to cause an upset.

Speaker 5 (02:18):
Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (02:19):
Yeah, I'm more worried about Brisbane. I'm not worried about Adelaide.
Adelaide will be Adelaide. Yes, they're fine, like they are
definitely worse without Isaac Rankin and hopefully Josh Selly comes
back for them and does something on that. We'll talk
about the Crowe situation in a little bit. But I'm
more worried about Brisbane in the sense that locking Hil
done for the season, the injuries just clearly mean a lot.
And we know they can play very good footy because
we saw the last two weeks at the home and

(02:40):
away Thump FREEO Away comfortably beat Hawthorne. A Hawthorne team
that we now know again is pretty good, so we
know they can get back to that. But it's a
matchup that historically they've had a couple of times where
the Sons have got the better of them. Usually they're
pretty good in that the pineapple grapple of the line.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yes, traditionally they the Sons thumped them a few weeks
ago in the West, but that was at People.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
First Heritage Bank metrocn Stadium. Yes, so maybe that plays
a factor. I don't know if they've beaten them at
the Gabba or certainly not for a long while. I
don't think the gab so that'll be But I mean
it's the closest thing Gold Coast ever had to a
home final, so there's at least a chance to make
that interesting.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Who are you most worried about their BC out of
the Crows and the lines.

Speaker 4 (03:20):
Yeah, I mean, as I said before, I think Max
put it put it really well. Like the injuries that
Brisbane sustained, namely Lucky Neil, but also just the other
ones in the back part of the season. Jack Payne
as well, was pretty big. Now Eric Kibwood's not going
to come back this year. Their key forward stocks looked
just it looked bare up forward. Obviously, the small forwards
are the you know, the sort of engine room of
that forward line. But the you know, I was just

(03:42):
I was sitting there the other nights at the game,
excuse me, and Ty Gallup and Sam Day been there
to other targets a bit Logan Morris. They're a little
bit thin, not convinced there, And I think Adelaide's Max said,
I just think you expect some sort of big response,
and we're probably going to in the same way we
rated Collingwood a little bit, we're probably going to underrate
Adelaide a little bit now because I just think that

(04:03):
they given they had such a good year finished on
top of the ladder, Adelaide Oval has been such a cauldron,
you expect them to respond. But I also equally think
Hawthorne's going to be really up for the fight because this.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Happens every year, MAXI the qualifying final losers go down
in and head into a semi final, and immediately, because
we're human and we do tend to naturally gravitate towards
the glass half empty approach, we think, oh, who's going
to be going out in straight sets? And you can
make a case that both teams could go down, probably
more Brisbane at the moment, which is remarkable considering I

(04:35):
think this time last week, certainly I was saying that
Brisbane might be the most bankable team in the finals.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Well you would have thought so, But this is the
problem with looking at past matchups. Right, Brisbane beaten gjalong
three times in a row pretty convincingly, especially at GMHBA,
and then the Cats are quite clearly the better team
on Friday night, So you just don't know sometimes. And
that's the magic of this final series is that we
said it's going to be really good, because any of
these teams could beat anyone on their day.

Speaker 5 (05:01):
That's the other thing.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
It's also a byproduct of the fact that Hawthorne and
Gold Coast were one win short of the Top four,
so they're in their own right, they are sort of
top four ish caliber teams.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
Hawthorne would have been third last year with the exact
same record, so they're a good team.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
And would have been third if they've beaten Brisbane in.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
That exactly and instead they finish eighth, and now we
get first versus eighth in the finals. I think for
the first time in almost two decades. You used to
get to a bunch when they had the old top
the old system with the four qualifying finals and I
think I want to say it's nine to zero first
beating eighth in the finals. I'll double check those numbers
as we go through the week, but it's not a
great track record. But if it's going to happen, this

(05:36):
Hawthorn team, I did have some expectations on them coming
into the final series, but they were very impressive on Saturday.

Speaker 4 (05:42):
Geelong, I don't know if we'll get into this year
the premiership favorites now well yeah, So what I was
going to say was definitely like Geelong has separated themselves now.
They are clearly a level above the rest and therefore
I think all the other seven teams you could make
a case, could beat each other, but certainly Geelong Gents
is the team to be.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
You're going to try and convince Geelong fans that they're
really good, even though we've been saying, oh, you know,
maybe we're okay.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
And I think, like my biggest thing with Geelong right
this is more just a bigger picture thing, is that
I think Chris Scott's probably the best coach I've ever seen,
and I hold him in the highest esteem, above Alista
Clarks and above Damian Hardwick. Leg Matthew's the rates. I
just think he's an absolute master. They've had eight of
ten prelims now and I just think his resume deserves
another premiership, like it's fitting that he's if he was

(06:28):
to get another one. I think that's just what makes
the most sense in totality looking at the season, Max,
I don't know what your thoughts are the specifics about
the way that they are actually playing, but they just
look like the most connected team at the moment that
can play so many different ways.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
They're different from twenty twenty two because the reason, the
big reason behind they beat the lines on Friday night
was speed and the Cats weren't known for their speed, speed,
quick ball movement, but not leg speed in twenty twenty two.
And now you've got Max Holmes is fully fitting on
the outside and was arguably best on ground on Friday night.
Bailey Smith of course, and only Dempsey played the game

(07:05):
of his life on the Wednesday on Friday night and yeah,
kick three goals and his running power on the outside.
That's why the Cats are different this time around.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
He's the best wigman in the camp. If they actually
named a wingman in the Australian side, it would have
been Dempsey, Yes, particularly the way he gets forward. It's
it's such a key factor that Geelong has just done
really well this year. And finding those key role players.
I mean, you think about guys like Sean Manner coming
in late picking last year's draft or the year before
out of the VFL best young player in the comp
at twenty eight as well, and playing a key roll

(07:35):
and had like ten or twelve touches. Didn't seem like
a lot, but every time he was near the ball
it felt like he was having an impact.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
And I was talking to Max about this yesterday. How
good that you can have Mullen and kind of the
two Irish lads where this to me is like master coaching,
like this is how you build a team. Like all
their jobs were on the weekends to shut down McCluggage
and mullen's case and no kind of Rayner and not
for those two goals, which we might discuss at some
point that Rayner was gifted by the umpires, he would
have done a really good job. So I just think

(08:01):
the fact that you've got all these different role players
that know exactly what they have to do. Mullen just
go stop mcluggage, do your job. Everyone still buys into
the structures and all that, like it's just such a
well ran, well oiled machine.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
And you know the best thing for the Cats all
weekend might have been Hawthorne beating GWS. Why is that
because that's their bogie team, right the Giants. I mean
they did beat brisbaneho with their other bogie team this year,
but certainly, as a Cats fan, I go into games
against the Giants pretty terrified. So they can't have that
prelim now.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
So Max, maybe let's go to you first before we
ask beIN about Collingwood. Did the Magpies in any way
silence their critics on Thursday Night?

Speaker 3 (08:35):
Certainly a bit? And I think they, like a lot
of teams do nowadays, they take everyone saying this team
is the favorite to win and I will tip them
as the most damning sledge in history. And how dare
you criticize us like that? It's like, no, we tip
games and we think a team that's playing well is
going to win and a team that's lost five or
six at one point might be struggling. I think Nick

(08:55):
d dayk OSPs on air on Fox Footy talking about that, saying, yeah,
you know, we heard all the doubters, but then he
also admitted, yeah, I mean we lost five or six,
so you know that was a problem.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
They came into the finals with arguably the worst form
line in the All eighteen.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
But the point that I made coming into the finals
was that of course they can beat Adelaide, because they
probably should have when they played a few weeks ago,
and the body of work over the season was still
incredibly impressive, including the best defense of the comp, and
most of those games that they did lose in that
losing streak were close. They had the two bad ones
to Brisbane and Hawthorne. That was it.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
Yeah, my biggest concern I thought Adelaide was going to win.
As I said off the top, my biggest concern was
just that we hadn't seen that elite, consistent version of
Collingwood in for literally ten weeks. So you throw in
the fact that they also have to travel to Adelaide Oval.
You combine those two elements. It wasn't just a trend
where Collingwood was playing badly. It was like a genuine
six week body of work where they were clearly off

(09:47):
the boil. You combine that with going to Adelaide Oval
and I just thought you just don't know how they're
going to perform, but clearly their experience and guys like
de Goy, Sibot and Pendlebury, even Nick Dekos now just
it counts for so so much. You can't emphasize that enough.
And I think that holds them in really good stead.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
I think a lot of that also was you play
that game ten times. Maybe it's fifty to fifty, but
Collingwood got incredible nights out of some lesser lights like
Quina hasn't had an amazing year, played really well in
tough conditions given all the bu win which we can
discuss at some point. Darcy Moore had the game of
his life. Yeah, Bo McCreary was fantastic. All of these guys,
all the guys who aren't necessarily amazing every week when

(10:25):
they stand up, then Collingwood is really really hard to
beat because their superstars are going to do what they
do when they get their chances.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Onto Saturday's games. Are we underestimating Jihan Newcomb and Jack
Ginovan as players? Newcomb has now been in the three
finals that he has played the number one rated player
in all of those finals, and Jack Ginevan pulled off
some incredibly skilled moments under pressure where he talked the

(10:54):
talk and walk the walk. Do we underestimate those Hawthorne players?

Speaker 4 (10:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (10:58):
I mean watching Jack Ginevan.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
Whenever I watch him, I always just draw parallels to
Locky Schultz, of course, the man who sort of took
his spot in Collingwood's team, and they could not be
more opposite players Like Lockey, Schultz is that absolute defensive
guy who sets up goals with tackles, et cetera, and
Ginevan's the absolute offensive sort of magician if you want
to call him that, even though that's his teammates nickname.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
But magicians and wizards a very different bend.

Speaker 5 (11:22):
Please yes, confused, yes, Harry Potter.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
But he he just he's just such a he's such
a smart player, and he's he's built for the big stage.
He's got such good feel for the game and goal
sense and stuff, and yeah, he's he's just been terrific.
So I think, certainly, well it's hard to say Ginnevan's
underrated because we talk about him so much, but he
certainly has proved himself. I think this year, more than
last year, that he's built for September and big games

(11:45):
and big moments and a.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
Lot of experience for his age.

Speaker 4 (11:48):
Yes, And to be honest, as soon as he came
into the Pie's team a few years ago, he always
had that like he's always been just a really smart, clean,
good footballer. So he's but he certainly built out his
game and then new Girl Man. I was in the
Hawks player ratings on the weekend and I was having
a hard time figuring out if it was a nine
or an eight game. I went with an eight in
the end, but you could easily.

Speaker 5 (12:07):
Justify a nine. Well.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
He tailed off a bit in the second half and
I thought when the game was there to be won
in the fourth he probably wasn't the one that It
was more the Sicilies and.

Speaker 5 (12:17):
Hardwik behind the ball and stuff.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
So maybe Nucam is a little bit underrated, but he's
maybe also because he hasn't done it over an absolute
sustained period, But he is building a reputation as a
finals performer.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
Very fair, I think. Yeah, he is one of the
midfielders who suffers from the problem of there are so
many good midfielders it's hard to respect all of them.
But he's damn good, Like he's Will Day is still
their best player in full flight, but he could be
a close number two.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
The resilience of Hawthorne was on full display because the
Giants looked like though it was going to be a
carbon copy of the Giants Swan's Friday Night game about
a month and a half ago, where the Giants put
on the quarter of their lives against Sydney in the
third and then carried on with it. It was something like
a seventy odd point turnaround in the end. Thorn is
able to wrestle the momentum of the game back and

(13:03):
kick away or be it not in massively intimidating circumstances
in terms of venue and crowd, but they were able
to still able to flip the script quite remarkably, and
that probably showed despite being a young team in their
building in their Premiership journey, and that showed an incredible
amount of maturity.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
So finals are about moments, as we know, and the
expected score showed that. As I flagged at the top,
the Hawks kicked like four goals better than they should have.
There was gineven moments. It was the stuff in the
fourth quarter, Troll having a few good moments as well.
Guys just kick goals out of nowhere and it got
them the lead that got them to win. It's as
simple as that. The Giants had their trademark inconsistency and
they have that incredible less than a quarter where they

(13:44):
come back from forty two points down. It was going
to be a disaster for me because I couldn't figure
out what the biggest finals comebacks are when it's not
at a halftime break or a three quarter. That's all
AFL Tables list. I don't have mid quarter stats.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
It's a setback.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
But the Hawks got on top anyway. So that's just
what happens sometimes. That the Hawks are a very good team.
If there's go I said pre finals that they're going
to be a team from eighth that can get to
a prelim or win all that's going to be them,
And here they are with a real chance of getting there.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
Maybe that's the reason why the AFO Tables administrator is
not in the Hall of Fame yet.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
That's chasm, really disappointing.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yes, just on the Giants. BC have the Giants, so
that's their third exit in a final series and in
different circumstances now heartbreaking in the prelium straight sets last
year after giving up leads and again they've given up well.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
They have.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
A heavy Hawthorne start there and did all they could
get back into the game but left their run too late,
run out of puff? Have the Giants missed their premiership window?
Can this group that they've got now go again? Because
Adam Kingsley was he said postgame very matter of facts
and you had to admire it as well. We've just
got to find a way to go again. That's easier
said than done.

Speaker 4 (14:50):
Yeah, I am getting a bit worried to be honest, Like,
there is only so many opportunities you get unless you're Geelong.
There is only so many opportunities that you get. And
I think this year, like I wasn't as big on
them throughout this year. I feel like last year in
the year probably was their real good opportunities. This year
felt like a bit more of a like a just yeah,

(15:10):
it just didn't all feel like it came together. So
I don't look at the end of this final series
and say, oh, like that it's happened again. I think
the last two years it probably went by them, and
I think in the home and away season they were
just too patchy throughout the year. So I think I
am a little bit worried about them because they don't
have Obviously, they've got Finn Callahan and Tom Greener, absolute
stars in the midfield. They're young ish kind of rising players,

(15:31):
but they're still they've already arrived in a sense, and
I don't know how much, like what else is going
to make this team better, like where the improvement is
going to come from. Every team's got some fringe guys
that they hope will come on, but I don't look
at that list and say it's going to get way
better or there's great reason to think that they're going
to bounce back in a meaningful way next.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
Year, sort of like the Swans, where when they hit
in the draft, they hit really hard, they hit really well.
Sam Taylor as well gives them a pretty good young
certainly triplet to build on. But other than that, there's
not a lot coming through. And then it's that core
that's been there for a decade now. Toby Green's thirty two.
He had a down year last couple of seasons, was
pretty good at times this year, but he's not going
to be that star player every year for them going forward.

(16:11):
Most of that core when you think of a Giants player,
the names that come to mind, they're pretty much all
in their thirties other than the Taylor and midfield of
the guys we mentioned, So that's a problem for them.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Which is with Josh Kelly's ridiculous quarter that was unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
Coming onto the sub yeat, but he couldn't play full game,
So you know that's injuries come up more often when
you're an older player, and as painful as it is
for someone who's thirty three to say a thirty year
old and foot years old. So look, the Giants were
fine this year. They were pretty good. They just weren't amazing.
They weren't the contender everyone thought they were pre season.
There was a lot of hype around them because of

(16:46):
the way they lost those two finals last year. But
their midfield, while improving in the second half of the season,
wasn't there. And the structure of their game where they
had now allow a million inside fifties a week, just
doesn't work when you have Taylor and Buckley defending seventy
a week. It can work sometimes, but good teams are
going to take advantage and Hawthorne did that and that's
why they won that game.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
So their first round were their early picks in the
picks in the thirties in the past three years have
been that we haven't seen a lot of yet or
we've seen sporadically include Harry Rousten, Max Kroszewski from twenty
twenty two, twenty twenty three, James Leak, Phoenix Gothard, and
then we saw a glimpse of Joe Fontie on the weekend.
It was quite really good. It's been last and then

(17:28):
this year we didn't see Olie Hanniford, we didn't see
Harry Oliver who has picked eighteen or nineteen and twenty
twenty four, and then we only saw four games from
Cody Angover as well. So there's first round talent that
we haven't seen from the past three years, but they
haven't really been, you know, knocking on the door significantly.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
You would not think a back six which includes all
Australian contender Lockey Ash, who I think is maybe slightly
overrated on counting stats. It's like his kicking is kicking
is ordinary, so it's not great. And then Taylor and
Buckley that back six should not be the worst in
the top eight, but they conceded the most points in
the top eight. They considered more points this year than
the Bulldogs did. And everyone thinks the Bulldogs defense destroyed

(18:09):
their season, and they kind of did, so that's the problem.

Speaker 4 (18:11):
Yeah, I still think their infrastructure of like the back
six Callahan, Tom Green, like mercurial, dangerous forward line, there's
still enough for there to make a case. But like
that they're going to be good next year.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
They finished fifth, they had sixteen wins. They're a pretty
good team.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
But like the margins can be so fine sometimes, like
if they drop off, let's say they lose you know,
two or three extra if they have two or three
extra losses, they might miss the eight next year. Like
it's just I can see them being in that similar
pack where they're sort of just maybe in the middle
of the ladder.

Speaker 5 (18:37):
So I don't Yeah, it's hard to say where they're
at the moment, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
So they're about to lose Lecally yeah, yes, and Jacob
Ware and probably big Way Dirkson as well, who's been
in trade whispers I think for three years straight and
finally actually might go but again not necessarily plays right
in the best twenty two.

Speaker 4 (18:53):
Yeah, I reckon this is like last year what they
lost Perryman and coming like probably slightly more important role
players the ones that are going to lose this off season.
So I would say Peeling as well. So I would
say this is probably the first year in a while
where it's not like, oh, we're going to lose a
really not key piece because last year weren't key pieces,
but like an actual guaranteed best twenty three player.

Speaker 5 (19:13):
So that's kind of a tick in a sense.

Speaker 4 (19:15):
And they'll obviously get some sort of decent pick for Letily,
maybe a second rounder. So I think that's a win
for them in a sense because there's been all these
other years where they lose players and it's the same
narrative every year, we say, oh they're losing players, they're
going to drop off, and they overcome the odds. So
that that is a win I suppose in a sense
that they're not losing massive names. But it's also win
for sin Kilda to bolster their defensive stocks. And it

(19:37):
looks like Port Adelaide's going to land Jacob Ware So yes,
Albays he's.

Speaker 5 (19:42):
Run that one t lice.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yes, well, I didn't get a response the first.

Speaker 5 (19:44):
Time he said that one in the office before.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
It's a good gag, right, guys, his name sounds like
a different word.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
So yeah, Like, I don't look at those outs and
say it's going to have a massive impact on them.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
On the fellow expansion team, the Gold Coast Sons, who
it was quite unbelievable experience being in the office watching
the game Saturday night, the Gold Coast Suns in their
first final getting their first win. Were you surprised, MAXI
by how hardened and ready for finals they were? They
they just looked so solid throughout the game. The occasion

(20:18):
didn't seem to overaw them at all.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yes, But I think thinking about it, it makes sense
that Freedmanner looked overawed because they're just as young, if
not younger. They're playing at home with the weight of expectations,
so if anything that made it them more nervous, they
played more nervous, and certainly the Sons had their times
in the third and fourth quarter where they were fumbling
and making mistakes. They look like in the inexperienced team

(20:41):
to finals that they are, but their best players play
in a way that is sustainable in finals. You know,
Rollyn is in a fantastic players and they just got
get the job done. Finals players and unsurprisingly Mini Dusty
over there. Yes, Humphrey was fantastic in a final. Who
would have thought he.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Was three goals and the second quarter to really break
the game open. So on that point then, is twenty
twenty five a fail for Freemantle.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
No, okay, no, it's as close to being a fail
as a sixteen win season can be.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
It's nuts.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
So I gave them a bit. I did the brutal
review for them. Yes, season review gave them a B,
and I gave the Giants a B as well. I
think that's as high as I could give them for
the amount of wins, the amount of performances they had
in the season that were pretty damn good. But also
there were unsustainable elements of both of those teams seasons.
Freemantle became the Kings of the comeback and then came
back and very much like Collingwoods last couple of games
against Gold Coast, you make the comeback, but then you

(21:31):
still lose because they had a bit of time left
to win it themselves. So you can't trust the teams
that keep doing that. So look, they had the worst
percentage in the eight Freemantle. That says to me that
they're not as amazing as their win lost records suggested,
and then losing a finals to the Suns is certainly
disappointing and it puts more pressure on justin long you're
going in the next year, just.

Speaker 5 (21:50):
On Gold Coast.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
To me, the thing that impressed memos with them is
they almost played like a team that wasn't playing in
a final, Like they weren't overawed in any way, or
they won't even felt like they were just playing in
a normal game, Like they didn't change the way they
played it all. As you said, they were real hard
and they were just going for it. They were super
diligent defensively. They just didn't change anything or they didn't. Yes,
itccumb to the pressure of finals, which is half the battle.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
Sometimes.

Speaker 4 (22:14):
I think it was a ross line that one said
once upon a time, or maybe paulver is like, treat
it like it's another game. It's probably like you do
need to take it seriously, but at the same time,
you just got to play to your strengths, which they did.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Just overall, home ground advantage has always seen its massive
in finals. Is it less relevant this year? We just
saw three teams win interstate and really guts into state wins.
Is it less relevant just because the competition between the
top eight, the chasm between the top eight is so

(22:45):
much tighter than it ever has been.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yeah, it has to be. I mean it's a little
bit of just randomness. Things happen sometimes, but I think
that's the main factor. Yeah, it's a very tight campaign.
Like you also look at the Giants and Fremantle and Brisbane.
Some of these teams that lost finals were the best
away teams, Like Brisbane was a really good away team, yes,
and then suddenly that disappeared against the Cats. So yeah,
sometimes things just flip on their heads a little bit.

(23:07):
So yeah, you're going to get weird results when you
have a really good top eight. That makes sense, Well
I could.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
I think you know some people listening obviously their teams
aren't in finals and they're just fast forwarding, you know,
fifteen seconds fifteen seconds because they want to get to
this segment The Trade Whispers.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
And Now on the Fox Footy podcast, another strong edition
of Australia's favorite segment, Fair or Fast, just to.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
Trade related Fear or Fast, but with some other issues
thrown in there. But you see, We're going to start
with you, Duge. The Saints' trade approach is fraught with
danger considering the personnel they're targeting.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
Fair or fast.

Speaker 4 (23:41):
Fraught with danger? Fair it is, it has to be
fair like it has to be fraught with danger. Whether
or not it's successful or not is another question. But yes,
I mean, I'm writing a piece on this at the
moment I spoke with Saints. Great le Montage just joined
the dots nicely. Yeah, I mean, so my biggest thing
with this whole Sint Kilda recruiting drive that they're going on,

(24:03):
and I think everyone applauds them for being aggressive and
going for it, like we want to see that, We
want to see teams having a crack good on them.
We spoke about Lecalleer before Jack Sulvanney. They've already got
Tom Dakoning as well, Flanders, potential Landers, leam Ryan like
they are absolutely going for it, so props to them.
The interesting thing that I've been thinking about the last

(24:24):
few days at which I'm going to write about, is
teams in the past that have sort of been in
the middle of the ladder and you don't quite know
are they contending, are they rebuilding. We don't really know
what they're doing that have then stocked up big time
on recruits all in one off season. So we're talking
about teams like sink Kilda a few years ago. They
did it twice in a row off seasons where they
got the likes of Damn Butler, Dougal Howard, Zack Jones,

(24:45):
Brad Krautz, that sort of era Essendon did in twenty
eighteen these names Essen and got Devin Smith, Jake Stringer.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
Dylan Shieldfield, the three Esses.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
Of the might have been the year before Adam sa
That's right, all these SS's. Yeah. And then another sort
of random one which I kind of forgot about, was
Freemantle in twenty eighteen added Travis Collier, Jesse Hogan, Rory
Lobb and Rece Conker. Yes, that was ross Lyon's eventual
last season when those guys came on. So I guess
the point of my story is, like, I'm not saying

(25:18):
it's going to fail, but there is evidence that if
you are not ready to make the leap, if the
rest of your list isn't ready, if the young youth
that you've been nurturing isn't ready, it can go backwards,
and it can set you, it can put you in
AFL purgatory. The sort of interesting one which I've actually
given them a tick. He was originally going to be
a cross, but I did a little bit more research
into it and I'm giving them a tick.

Speaker 5 (25:40):
We're going very deep into this now.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
But Port Adelaide in twenty seventeen, this was by far
the most aggressive off season that any of these clubs
have had. In one offseason they added Tom Rockliffe, trendo
of Times two, Trent Mackenzie and Jack Watts.

Speaker 5 (25:55):
Now, most people would probably look at that Max.

Speaker 4 (25:58):
Is sort of frowning and they would think they had
and that was an unsuccessful period. But my take is
that they made a prelim two years later they finished
on top of the ladder. Rocliffe and Mackenzie were both
top ten in the B and F. Therefore they set
themselves up. They got themselves in a position, and that's
all you can do.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Treno played a fever to footy as well for the Power.

Speaker 4 (26:17):
I don't think he was in the prelium team, at
least not from my Wikipedia SERTs, so of course the
respected source. So anyway, like we're going to find out
with Sint Kilda, are they ready or not that they've
got some solid additions. But yeah, the proof's going to
be in the pudding next year.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Max. It'd be too harsh to drop the umpire who
paid the free kick against Mark O'Connor for just that
one decision, fair or fast?

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Well, I don't think that's what they do. They don't
drop people based on one decision. No, I think it's
a pretty ordinary one, so fast on that one element, right.
I think there's a good chance he's getting dropped anyway,
because they have to cut the umpiring pull down to
half half. Yep, and certainly the biggest mark against him
on his report card from the weekend, which do that
report card, by the way, we don't do it basically

(27:02):
every other report except that one. In case you're wondering, Yes,
so the grades will be normal instead of our ones.
But no, I think it's very fair to include that
in his report of interesting was the four umpire set up?
The reason why this happened the cam Rainer mark. He
kind of stuff, because if there are only three, there
wouldn't have been a fourth by a watching that one

(27:22):
hundred and fifty meters off.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
The probably not.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
It's an interesting little side note what a mess that was.
It was.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
But like the fact that we're maybe even discussing whether
cam Rainer could have been fined for staging suggests the
potential softness of the.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
So the first one was I don't think anyone agrees
it was right, and the AFL has even admitted it
was wrong, so we know that. The second one, yeah,
that's fine. Zach got to be pushed him over right
front of the it was there. That was there, like
it shouldn't have been there, because they shouldn't have been
in the situation where it could be there. But the
first one is more about I think Joe Badley put
it pretty well over the weekend. It's that the ethos
of umpiring should not be that they have to explain

(27:59):
why this is right or wrong. It should be no,
no one wants that to be part of the game.
No one wants those free kicks to be paid. Hundred
and fifty meters off the ball. It had no impact
on the player whatsoever. And even if it is a
thing that can be an illegal act, just knocking someone over,
like the Tom Stewart one, I was kind of okay
with because yeah, he interrupted his run. The Kyle Lohman
interrupted Loman's chance of getting the ball as it was

(28:20):
coming forward. That's an illegal thing to do. But yeah,
you have to have some nuance and understanding of what's
realistically worth a free kick for people to buy into
mpiring because a lot of it is about perception, not
the reality of what is right and what is wrong,
because people misunderstand the rules all the time. To go
with holding the ball, but if people think that the
umpires are making mistakes constantly, then even if they aren't

(28:41):
by the letter of the law, they are because people
don't believe in them, don't trust them, and don't believe
in the game. That's a problem.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
BC Jed Walter is Charlie Kurno's best hope of getting
out of Carlton fair or fast?

Speaker 3 (28:54):
To see of the keys? Yes he does?

Speaker 4 (28:56):
Okay, Yeah, I'll say fast because I don't think he.
I think Charlie still would prefer to go to Sydney
or Geelong.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
So I think would could Gold Coast get involved in
a multi club trade and sounds Deared Walton.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
Pretty mega to me.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
Yes, I'll backtrack and say fair. That's a great idea.
I think Yeah, so this is j Clark's reporting saying
that Jed Walter is a player that Carlton is interested
in and he could hold the key.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Or could be interesting. It was very qualified. Could this
could well? Maybe?

Speaker 4 (29:28):
I think I think reading between the lines, he heard
something and instead of reporting it as a story, he
just made it a bit more opinion.

Speaker 5 (29:35):
He but clearly he heard.

Speaker 4 (29:36):
Whether it's from Kerno's management, Carlton or another party, someone
is sort of trying to push the The.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
Suggested this was about messaging. This was maybe Carlton saying hey, okay,
just get this out there. We'd be willing to do
this for Walter.

Speaker 4 (29:50):
Yeah, definitely, And like maybe it's even Walter's manager. That's
doubtful but possible. But I think it is really interesting, gents,
because you look at Sydney, you look at Geelong, it's
really really hard to work out how those teams could
get a trade done in terms of like if there
was a play that they would involve.

Speaker 5 (30:04):
We've heard about.

Speaker 4 (30:05):
Guys like Goulden, Heeney, et cetera, like those guys just
aren't going to get traded. But then you look at
Walter and he's one that I think Carlton would be
like Carlton would want and Gold Coast would at least
think about it, So it kind of it kind of
fits if you do like a Venn diagram, it would
kind of fit into that little sweet spot where it
might happen. But there's a lot of water to go
into the bridge because Walt would have to agree to it.

(30:25):
The Suns, like, I don't even know if the Sons
would want.

Speaker 5 (30:28):
To do that.

Speaker 4 (30:28):
They are really well set up for the next ten
years as they are a bit of sort of Oklahoma
City Thunder sort of style in the NBA, like do
you risk what you've got building that's going so strong
and take the gamble on Charlie. I'm sure Damien Hardrick
would like to do that, but with the rest of
the club, So there's a lot there's going to be
a lot more talked about between now and the trade period.
But he certainly looms as an interesting piece, so he's

(30:49):
basically James Harden.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
No one actually wants to trade for him, so eventually
the move gets done.

Speaker 4 (30:54):
Any I mean, it's almost a little bit disrespectful to
Charlie comparing him to whoa goodness like Charlie.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
I think I meant durant mole than anything there the hoologies.

Speaker 4 (31:07):
Okay, yeah, it's in it. Well, well, yeah, it's gonna
be interesting.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
That's a much nicer comparison.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yes, Max Matthew Nicks had to be stronger and addressed
the booing of Isaac Quaynor in his press conference.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
Fear or fast Crows of stuff. This up for about
a month now, right, So there was the initial handling
of the Rainer suspension and the appeal which dragged on
for an eternity. That was everyone was at fault there,
and eventually it got done. Rankin did his apology a
bit late, but it was a good apology. So then
we have the booing of Quana on Thursday night.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Who it hasn't been publicly confirmed on the record by
any party that he was involved in the actual incident initially.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
But it was a bit of an open secret, I think,
and based on the response, it was very open in Adelaide.
So he gets that negative response for being the victim
of a homer phobic slur. That's logical. Good job, fans,
And then you have the Crows being asked about it.
So they had two press conferences within twenty four hours
of the game. I wasn't expecting Riley O'Brien to talk

(32:11):
about it, particularly because that's not his place. But Matthew
Nicks said nothing about it, very specifically said like I'm
not going to comment on that, which was disappointing. And
then the club statement, which they have even more time
to think about and word correctly, was a nothing statement.
So that's really disappointing that. I understand it's hard to
call out your own fans because they are you're paying customers,

(32:32):
and you're going to anger some people, but you have
to in that case because it very clearly came from
a place of you dabbed in our player. We're gonna
boo you about this situation, and people like I think
step was Stephen Rowe talking about row Yes on five
double A. I did hear this. It was on radio,
saying that you know, he's the one who did it,
He's the one who dbbed him in an absurd position

(32:54):
to take this footy brained take that, how dare he
report a homophobic slur in the most professional way possible,
not making a big deal out of it and doing
it behind in back channels, utterly absurd. So so many
people made themselves look like complete idiots, and the fact
that this is going to sound flippant, but it made

(33:15):
me cheer for Collingwood the whole situation. That good for you, Collingwood.
I'm glad that some of those people left that game miserable.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
So Monique vander Hayden, who's Fox Sports News Adelaide correspondent.
I've worked with Menique before on AFLW games and she's
a star. She read a really good piece of Fox
Sports dot Com Dot You because Monique herself is queer
and talked about how she has a slight adelaide leaning
I think.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
And I think she's a port fan technically port technically
I does enjoy just but.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
She covers the Crows a lot, and I think she's
seen a lot of Crows games over the years, and
I think she felt very disappointed in that she put
it so well in the piece of Fox Sports dot
Com Dot You. And also on the same DAYBC you
spoke to a number of different people in this space.

Speaker 4 (33:57):
Yes, I spoke to cobbyn Middle Mass Runners and Angie
Green and they all sort of Corbyn of course Fox
Footy commentator.

Speaker 5 (34:04):
The other two ladies that I spoke to.

Speaker 4 (34:06):
Work in sort of inclusion and you know, gay sort
of rights and things like that.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
I look about diversity, yes, And I just.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
Thought it was interesting because we haven't this is an
uncomfortable topic. We haven't really been faced with it much
in the AFL, and I just thought it was a
good chance to speak to people certainly more qualified than me,
to try to get a grasp of why this is
such an important issue. And the thing that drove me
to write this piece was that I got really uncomfortable,
and similar to what you're describing with the piece that

(34:37):
was on our on our website, seeing some supporters on Twitter,
Adelaide fans saying I felt really uncomfortable at the game
the other night. Like to be honest, it just it
breaks your heart hearing that, like it's footage. Should be
a game that we all go to, that we all
feel comfortably and that we love and we can even
sit next to opposition fans and we all get along,
so no one should ever feel less about themselves at
the footy. That was the thing that I found the

(34:59):
most upsetting person and I agree with MAXI like Matthew
Nicks just should have owned it. I would have hoped
that if it was Craig McCrae and the shoe was
on the other foot, I think he probably would have.
I hope he would, at least because a lot of
people have said, oh, if it was colling if you know,
if it was ranking Collingwood fans would have booed him.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
But there wasn't about Crows fans, Edie, Most if not
all clubs would have had the same response from some
portion of their fan base. Yeah, that's just human beings
behaving away. That's nothing to do with the intrinsic nature
of being a Crows fan. So this isn't about calling
out the Crows, isn't about trying to No one's trying
to bring Adelaide down. People really liked this Adelaide story.

(35:36):
It's a fun thing that they play fun footy and
it's like, oh cool, they're going to be successful for
the first time in a while. Neutral fans were adopting
them as a second team. They spoiled all of it.

Speaker 4 (35:45):
It's a micro chasm of a bigger issue with society.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
BC Carlton can't afford to lose Mitch McGovern fair or fast.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
We've heard it many times.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
Yes, I mean I would actually say fair, mainly on
the basis that they've already lost Jack Sulvanney, so they're
already like their back six. It was actually good this year,
like they added Nick Haynes and it was it was
better than it ever been.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
It's probably outperformed as expectation.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
Certainly from the start of the season. He didn't have
a great introduction.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
But yes, so I if I'm Carlton and you've already
lost Sylvanna, who I think is their second best defender
after Weedering, like I don't want to lose McGovern as well.

Speaker 5 (36:22):
Yeah, he's not the greatest player.

Speaker 4 (36:24):
He can he's you know, he can be a bit unreliable,
but I think for the price that you would get
him for it would certainly be a lot cheaper than
his last contract. You can swing him both sides of
the ground. If he's not in your best twenty three,
it's not the end of the world, although you would
expect he would be.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Because it make it a bit more curious that he
then wasn't selected for the final home and away game,
which would have triggered an automatic extension.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
That might be a leverage thing. If you trigger the extension,
he's guaranteed to get that money. You can now sign
him for what you want.

Speaker 4 (36:48):
To Ideally, I do wonder, and this isn't intell or anything.
I just wonder if this is a standards cultural type
of thing, like similar to like a Jake Stringer when
he left Essendon, where it's like, we know that you're
a good footballer, but the direction that we're wanting to
going in. Michael Voss makes no apologies for being very disciplined,
just like the way he played very hard nosed operator.
I just wonder if they're sort of maybe wanting to

(37:09):
pull in a new direction. Obviously, the young fellow dean
coming through. Do we think he's going to be there
round one?

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Is he that player that I was told I was
told immediately after the championships that he should be playing
round one?

Speaker 4 (37:18):
Yes, So maybe they're thinking we've got him him and
waitering maybe along with Haynes.

Speaker 5 (37:22):
Maybe that's enough.

Speaker 4 (37:23):
So maybe if McGovern's sort of that play that they
think isn't driving standards and isn't going to be part
of the next premiership team, and what's the point of keeping.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
Him and eventually the son of the lawyer whose name
escapes him right carry O'Farrell unfortunately won't play next year
but because of his ACL but was very impressive this
year and they're going to have some defensive stocks. The
problem with what they've got now is that by not
yet resigning McGovern, all these clubs are inquiring about him.
There were reports last on Sunday that four clubs at
least have inquired. Yes, that's driving up his price. So

(37:52):
if you're going to get him cheaply now you may
not get him quite so cheaply.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
And Max last one Airlines must be held accountable by
the a triple C outrageous AFL price gouging fair or fast.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
I mean yes, fair, but that expects the atureable see
to be active and do more than just let's talk
about Colson wo Worth's ben come. Yes, Coldworth, what a
what a.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Football tragedy though for Hawks fans, so that they I
mean it's not that far over drive. You can drive
to Adelaide, which and then the Pies obviously did the
did the good hearted thing and about four or five
buses took them from there.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
What a ride home that would have been. I cannot
think of a place less like but yes, no, it
is particular. It's I mean, that's a this is a
societal problem with demand based pricing. Ubers tickets for contest,
anything where they can jack up the price because they
know people will pay it eventually. That's It's it's stupid,

(38:50):
but that's hey, capitalism is pretty fun, right guys.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
Thank you Max for those really deep thoughts here on
fair Fast. Speaking of deep, how about these questions from
our listeners on the.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
Fox Foody podcast, It's time to open up the mailbag.
Have a question for the panel tweeters every Monday morning
at Fox Footy.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
Pretty pretty deep. I spoke philosophical. Look, we asked the
important questions. You're in the mail bag. Thank you to
everyone who wrote in. Responding to our tweet, A couple
of people, Jimmy and Rockett, asked the same rocket's very
important question. Yes, guy, McKenna, Jewey do all three at
the same time. And then Tony Cochran comes in in

(39:30):
his Vight supercar. What are your guys doing?

Speaker 5 (39:36):
And it's got to be Gary, doesn't it?

Speaker 3 (39:38):
Lion it had Yeah, it probably makes most sense, which
we can hear aboutself. It's a fun he could present.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yes, Yes, that's a great solution.

Speaker 5 (39:52):
Save some money.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
Yeah, it would and then Charlie Constable could hand over them.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
That makes Smith very that's true, and George horn Smith
and Jordan Murdoch.

Speaker 5 (40:01):
Sorry, yes, keep going.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
Please, I got you on a tangent. That's dangerous. Name
football players been. Rocket does not ask about getting mints
and off. He asks why does David Rodin not picked
for the first week of finals rodent goal umpire extraordinary boy?

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Instead he was umpiring at Arden Street Oval on Sunday
in the North Melbourne v Colling with afl W game.
But he's still doing it with a massive.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Smile, so he was happy. He was fine, very happy.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Him and Raiser Ray I'm officiating in the same game.

Speaker 5 (40:30):
Do we actually know what? Do we have any inkling
as to here?

Speaker 3 (40:34):
I mean it would be that he was not judged
to be one of the eight best goal umpires for
the season. So these are things that happen in the
umpiring department when they do their grades on who's very impressive.
I don't know what the metrics would be like lack.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Of score reviews or correct or lack of overturned.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
Reviews, most frowns. He would have scored poorly unfortunately.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
Like to have a beer with David Wright and I
reckon it be good sort of god like to have
a beer with.

Speaker 5 (40:58):
He took a really good block.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Ta Vita Roadan is coming through the system in the
next couple of years. I don't know as much about
the sort of coming years the draft yet, but he's
very much on the rain.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
You've got time to do your research and we know
you'd be well across it. One more question here from.

Speaker 5 (41:12):
Mitch who asks never.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
Yes, speaking of Geelong, this is about the West Australian's
back page on Saturday.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
I want to say I did not realize before the
game the fold out or just literally before the game,
literally before the game, literally before printed, printed before coast
the Saturday Morning paper yes, with their headline of the
best things in life are easy finals wins, which is
playing off the Fremantle slogan the best things of life.

Speaker 3 (41:40):
Are freo yes. Of like, was the West Australian merely
tempting fate or did they inadvertently give the Suns the
emotional ammunition they needed to overcome the hostile crowd or both?
Possibly both. I wouldn't want to suggest that the West's
back page went against them and did poorly for some reason.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
With the sons of thread, do you think.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
I mean, there's only one paper in town, so you
sort of have to over there.

Speaker 5 (42:04):
True, so I.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Would be surprised if it was filtered in the playing group,
that kind of thing. I'm not saying that that with
any knowledge. I don't know that. Just players who say
they don't know what he said is the biggest furfy
of all time. They know what is going on, not
necessarily directly, but it does get back to the mates text.
There's no way that not one Gold Coast player would

(42:26):
have gone into that game being not aware of what
was on the back page of.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
The West Australian. The one that really sticks out to me,
of course in history five years ago, twenty twenty Elimination Final, Collingwood,
West Coast. Yes, the Dirty Pies, Yes, because of the
COVID situation.

Speaker 4 (42:42):
To be honest, there wasn't much else for anyone to
read at that point, so that was just you know that,
that was all we had.

Speaker 5 (42:48):
Newspaper's information.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
That was new newspaper's heyday. He was twenty twenty, just
purely because of that, and then waiting for Dan's latest
press conferences. Yes, too soon, I think we're right to
go with our next segment. Let's do it.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
Let's hear how many years ago?

Speaker 4 (43:02):
Was it?

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Nineteen years ago? No, twenty nine.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
Years ago, twenty nine, thirty years ago? Kevin said this, well,
not this, This is the intro. That was the intro.
Does a sting? That's the sting? Yeah, he said. This

(43:25):
put a good one this week.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
From Touch of Cunning.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
From a Touch of Cunning, Kevin Cheeny's first book, published
in nineteen.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Who would have thought the prequel would be just as
good as the secret?

Speaker 3 (43:35):
Yeah, yep, that's what they say when they're doing commentary
on the first game after the second. So this this
is a chapter about Caroline Wilson.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Carro an entire chapter about Carrot.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
Well, it leads, as you can see, it leads with
the big words.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Caroline Willis has shot me down eight times so far,
and she can't kill me. That's not a bad quote
to start.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
Get me read two, chapter thirty two of a Touch
of Cunning. This is what former resident coach Kevin Sheedy
had to say. Caroline herself was a longtime friend and
admirer of Kevin Sheedy, but things have changed, particularly Tom
Price speaking. Yes, this is the narrow. Yes, particularly you
can tell my voice is slightly different. Yes, particularly as
far as the Sheety is a concerned. Miss Wilson is

(44:17):
no longer welcome in Geraldine She's home. And Kevin Sheedy
is apt to refer to the Adams family when he
is talking of the Wilsons. The change freeze might be
a better word, at least as far as Geraldine Sheedey
is concerned. Began on fifteen November nineteen eighty eight. That
was the day the Melbourne Herald Pointed printed a long
story by Caroline Wilson under the headline the Crisis hits

(44:39):
Windy Hill. The story was accompanied by.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
A derisive photo cartoon of Sheedy titled the Coach under Pressure.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
Caroline Wilson infuriated Sheety by using a quote from an
anonymous player no longer an Essenon to enterr article, which
caused a predictable stir football circle. The quote was Sheedy
knock backed us for Long's job and called us in
and gave us a long lecture about loyalty. Three months later,
he sacked Steve Carey and Peter Bradbury from Mike Richardson.

(45:08):
They were two of the best clubmen his message lost
a lot of it's ring after that. Caroline Wilson has
shot me nowt eight times so far, and she can't
kill me, she said with a snort. She wrote a
story once in which she said she couldn't find me.
To refute what she had said, I said to her,
everyone else can find me, but you can't. That was

(45:28):
three Foster's Cups and two Grand Finals ago. Oh, I
don't mind it. I knew Caroline when she was a kid.
That's footy, that's life. You'll learn to wear it. When
Caroline interviewed me these days, I ask her, are you
ready for another crunch? One time I stopped her in
mid sentence when I asked who Esoteric played for. Next time,
I'll ask her who Bizarre plays for. That's one of

(45:51):
her favorite words these days. I'll say he sounds Spanish?
Is he related to Jose Romerock? We Bulldogs player?

Speaker 4 (46:02):
A drum turned into a Drummer's.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Nineteen eighty eight. That article came out, So nearly forty
years later, Caro is still causing dropping bombs. Yeah, dropping
bombshells everywhere.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
Quite the legacy that you leave.

Speaker 4 (46:17):
Yeah in football quote card options in there.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Yes, looks for hard to seeing that on Instagram in
the next twenty four hours.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yes, thank you Kevin.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
That was a good one. Thank you Max.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
I enjoyed that contribution. Looking forward to hearing from Vin
in a couple of weeks time.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
It's nice stops as well.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Adelaide and Hawthorne play on Friday nights. The interesting thing
that sort of emerged on Friday during the Geelong Brisbane
game was that the Collingwood home preliminary final would be
played on the Saturday twilight time slot Geelong on the
Friday night.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
We assume Saturday twilight. We don't know for sure, but it.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Would make the most sense because it is now going
to be either Brisbane or the Gold Coast Suns playing
Collingwood on that Saturday, which would allow either of those
two teams to get home ahead of the Grand Final.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
Last night last year, the Gelong Brisbane prelim was five
fifteen PM, so it would not surprise me for I
was the same start for Collingwoods one, which I love
that timeslot.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Yes, so Adelaide and Hawthorne men play on the Friday
night and then would then back up off the seven
day break to play Geelong. Correct on the Friday night
as well. Who's going to win this clash between first
and eighth and the lads and I for the Ricky
Henderson Cup of course, Yes, yes.

Speaker 3 (47:27):
I mean pre finals. I said that Hawthorne was making
a prelim at least from it's going to stick to
it and I'm gonna stick with it. I think the
Hawks are good enough. I think Adelaide. I also said
that Adelaide felt like a prelim loser team to me.
Either way, my prediction can be right. That's the best part.
When you talk so much, you get right and wrong
things bought. Yes, let's go, let's go Hawks.

Speaker 4 (47:47):
I'm going to go Hawthorne as well. Let's just manifest
and speak it into the universe. So it's Hawthorne Vigel.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Wait wait, wait, wait no, what have I done? Oh god?

Speaker 5 (47:54):
Yeah, let's just.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
If you're a Geelong fan, would you prefer to be
playing Colling and final or Hawthorne in the preliminary.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
Final for to crawl into a small hole and live
there for the next fortnite?

Speaker 5 (48:06):
You might get both, might get both, so.

Speaker 3 (48:08):
That plays we win the first one at least.

Speaker 4 (48:10):
How much of the Cats Hawks probably how much do
you reckon that would get crowd, they'd pack it out massive, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
They'd pack it out.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
Yeah, it'd be a grand fight.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
It'd be a hundred out.

Speaker 4 (48:19):
Yeah, it'd be close. If Brisbane Gelong last year was
ninety three, I think roughly.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
That sounds right, Yeah, so it should be.

Speaker 4 (48:25):
It was massive, So imagine if Hawks geo would be huge.

Speaker 5 (48:28):
Hopefully the Hawks win, but because.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
It could also be the first all Victorian final of
the Final series. That's first since Hawthorne Dogs.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
That sounds right, yes last year. Yes, so exciting times.
Look like we are doing the thing where we count
out the qualifying final loser and Thede can win. They've
lost two games at home all year last week and
then Geelong and gather around, so we know they can
get the job done. They beat the Hawks in a
pretty good game a few weeks back. Yeah, but the
Hawks were right in.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
That basically Based basically won the game for them.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
And you felt his absence severely. So we don't know
if Shelley's been picked as of recording for this week,
but that would be an important factor for them.

Speaker 4 (49:09):
Hawthorne is more settled than other lad at the moment,
like even the VFL team like they've got all these
guys in a really good form in the VFL haussway.
Mackenzie mirr lewis like that they are they are cherry
right to win and Adelaide has been off the boil
for a few weeks later, like they only struggled to
get past the sort of struggled to get past North
in the last game of the season. They probably should
have lost to collin With the week before, so there

(49:29):
is warning signs for the Crows.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
And then the first ever finals pineapple grapple between the
Brisbane Lines and the Gold Coast Suns.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
We have this, We've had.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
A Branding Cup.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
Sorry, We've had a Showdown Final. We've had four Sydney
Derby's that we have and we've still never had a
Western Derby Derby rather in a final.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
We're very close in twenty fifteen Yees having a Western
Derby Grand Final.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
Correct, but Freemantle loss, Ah Sheridan.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Yes, it was that game, was it?

Speaker 3 (50:00):
I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure that was unless they
bottled another prelim at some point that I've missed. Sorry
for air fans you turned off, you didn't listen to
this podcast. I know that Gold Coasts can beat Brisbane,
can't they? They can. I'm going to tip Brisbane though.
I tipped Brisbane to go the long way and I'm
going to stick with that. Would you if you're Brisbane
and and let's say they do win this, are you

(50:21):
happier getting Collingwood at the MCG in a prelim than
getting Adelaide at alaid Over? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yes, I don't think that's necessarily thing. Either circumstance would
intimidate them. But they have got the points on the
board against Collingwood now, like enough now, I think to
give them some real confidence heading into that game.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
I think said that they were poor at the MCG
on Friday that were you know, trends can change.

Speaker 4 (50:43):
I also think Brisbane should win. But but gold Goes
has this just no fear approach at the moment where
you just know that it's going to travel well. And
I could see them honestly making a Grand Final in
this current sort of like that a really good year.
They were in the top four for a key chunk
of the year. They beat Port, they would have been
in the top Yeah, so you shouldn't write them off.
When's the last time Brisbane lost a final at the Gabba,

(51:05):
does anyone know?

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yeah, they've lost a few. They certainly lost to the
Giants in twenty nineteen.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
They lost the semi of the Balldogs. Think both times
they went out straight sets to me foot that was
twenty twenty one.

Speaker 5 (51:15):
Yes, I've come a long way since that.

Speaker 4 (51:16):
I actually think they're were Clearly, they're way more better
equipped now to handle Locke Neels Absince than ever before.
They were playing some good foot in the back end
without him as it was, and I think they can
cover as much of a good player as he is.
But it does make it a big task in terms
of winning the premiership.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
I would be surprised if both bottom half of the
eight teams won, but they absolutely can. The win rate
is about fifty five percent, so to eight of eighteen
teams have got out in straight sets since the pre
finals buy was introduced, So it's entirely realistic. History says
about one of.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
Them will and they aren't traditional doing this in quotations
bottom half of the eight teams than the Yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Entirely winnable games, entirely excited games.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Yes for us to enjoy. Yes, of course, the first
weekend that we just had with Fox Footy commentary on
all finals as well. It was great to have Dwayne
on the Frio Suns call on Saturday night.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
Disappointedly didn't drop the big Steel, which he seems to
drop most games. Big Steel. He loves the big steel.
He's desperate for the big steel.

Speaker 5 (52:18):
Matt Hill on Thursday night.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
I enjoyed that, Yes, and then I've had a look
at the roster. So it's Jared and Huddo on Friday
night and Dwayne and Howie for the the Sunshines dash boy.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
Excuse me grapple, Sorry, it is the pineapple grapple. Folks,
if I hear any of you using q clash, what
is the angrily twitter like?

Speaker 2 (52:39):
What's the better queens and sporting rivalry? Is it the
pineapple grapple or the reptile rumble in the National Basketball League?

Speaker 3 (52:47):
That exists?

Speaker 2 (52:48):
It doesn't anymore. That was the Old Towns or Crocodiles
and the Cans typing what.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
About the Singapore Slingers? What sort of rivalries do they
have too?

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Soon Ringers, That is the end of the Fox Foody
podcast kick. Looking back to Foxfoody dot com dot au.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Thanks for listening to the Fox Footy Podcast. Like what
you hear, hit subscribe and rate us on your preferred
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catch Fox Footy on channel five oh four. Keep clicking
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