Fox Footy Podcast: Brutal bottom 10 season reviews... including the team currently 8th

Max Laughton, Ben Waterworth and Will Faulkner review Round 24 and the seasons of the AFL's bottom 10 teams in 2025 on the Fox Footy Podcast, with breakdowns of where they all went wrong - including the team currently 8th that looks certain to miss the finals - plus the All-Australian squad reveal, the Mailbag and much more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The big footy issues from every angle, dissected by a
team that follows the game closer than anyone else wherever
you are around the planet. This is your ultimate guide
to the AFL. This is the Fox Footy Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yes, the season is over for nine clubs and soon
officially ten as the AFL world awaits a Wednesday night
blockbuster and the weight for the Bulldogs is one of
the most agonizing in footy history. Yes, a weight they
could have avoided if they've just beaten the Dockers on Sunday.
So anticipating a Sun's win over the Bomber's VFL side

(00:36):
will do the bottom ten brutal reviews and what they
can do each at the trade table, plus tackle all
the big footy issues. On the Fox Footy Podcast, Ben
Waterworth with you as is the man most excited in
the footy world for off season Central season. Max Lordon, Hello, MAXI.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Look, I'm The listings do quite well digitally, let's say
so people are interested to see who is leaving their
football clubs. Import got started on Monday, big very much
delisting season. A lot of exit meetings going on after
live latter season. There's always a season. There is season season, Yes,
sad end and final season is just around the corner
of the most one half time of the year. As

(01:13):
Andy Williams One thing about Christmas? Also joining us hunting
the scoop of how Andy Brayshaw went in a commerce
test on Monday. Will Faulkner, Hello there you Tensil.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
Hello Ben, Hello, Marx Shallo listeners. Yes, spoke with Andy
postgame a Marvel Stadium on a Sunday and he was
very very good, very happy. Really yeah, surprisingly had a
good day. Yes, they all had a very good day.
So yeah, hoping Andy, who is obviously a regular listener,
is a commerce test.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Where's he studying?

Speaker 4 (01:38):
Did you get a Curtain University club sponsor?

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Okay, Well, well I hope everyone Cotton's onto that deal.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
All I'm saying what you did? Tell us just quickly
before we get into the true agenda. What was it
like in the Fremantle rooms after Sunday's performance, Because, certainly
a quarter time it looked like the Dogs by a lot,
but their ability to flip the script emphatically and cementa
finals spot it was a real sort of in the
words of the late E. J. Whitten, stuck it right

(02:08):
up them. The Doggers performance.

Speaker 4 (02:11):
Yeah, well, it was a game that, as you said,
they got to a very slowish start, and then from
that point forward, I think part of it you get
stuck in the moment or the like. But their second
quarter was as good a quarter I've seen from any
club this season, to.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
Be fair, only comparable to their second quarter against the
Dogs earlier this year. Two games where they've just run
over the top of them and then that's given them
the game.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
It was just beautiful football, very pure. And then yeah,
post game, I think there are a lot of people,
players and family friends alike that were very happy to
stick it up. And I'm paraphrasing there, but there are
certainly a few Snyder comments that were thrown around from
the players, and I think they were just very happy
that they got it done. And and he alluded that
to that in his interview speaking about how you know,

(02:53):
everyone had written them off, no one thought they were
going to win. It was a very jovial change rooms,
as they should be. They've gone through a lot of
adversity this year despite having a fifteen and seven record
heading into Round twenty four, which is just about unprected
without being locked in the eight so credits them, and yeah,
a few people with a bit of egg on their face.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
They basically had the season that Collingwood had in twenty
twenty two, when all the close games got to about
sixteen wins.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
I think that's how many Collingwood won.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
In the end, they just didn't get in the top
four because their percentage wasn't good enough and it was
a weird year. I do find it funny when teams
go on about that no one believed in us, everyone
was against us. They all ruled us out. Okay, we
tipped the Bulldogs. They were the favorites because they were
playing at home. It wasn't a crazy thing to do.
It's I can understand why they probably felt happier in
those rooms than the Dogs would have felt had they
have won, because they had that added motivation. I'm sure

(03:39):
that helped them. But it's just funny the way that
the perceptions of teams get used as a bogey man
four and against them.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
And totally rubbishes the notion that players and coaches do
not look at what he said in the media.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
I know justin Longiol definitely doesn't see what David King says.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Ever, that's right just before we came on as well,
Australian squad was announced, So we go from forty four
down to twenty two. So I've just thisted a couple
of intriguing inclusions like Josh Battle and the Crow's number
one defense getting rewarded here with Mark Keene and Josh Warrel.
Josh Dacos got in, as was Jamie Elliott, who had

(04:16):
a great start the season, maybe dropped off a little bit.
Ben Long gets in like that. Bailey Dale started well,
might have dropped off a little bit, but he gets
in as one of five dogs. Some of the outs
that I think it's a snub stub Sason, Yes, Tristan
Sherry was didn't get in because Max Gorn, Brody Grundy,

(04:36):
Luke Jackson got in ahead of him. Cal Wilke, so
I mentioned that the two Adelaide key De finners that
got in before cal Wilkie wasn't selected from the Saints.
Darcy Cameron is another ruck that missed out. Jack Higgins
an awesome start to the season, dropped off slightly, but
the likes of Ben Long got in ahead of someone
like Jack Higgins. I reckon Aaron Norton wasn't picked despite
kicking sixty one goals. I don't know, you can only

(04:57):
have a certain amount of key forwards, but he didn't
get picked. Rosy might have been a bit stiff as well.
Any glaring calls there, either inns or outs fork from
your perspective.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
Looking at the inns. I mean, as you said, the
Crow's defense has been awesome all year, but I think
it's been a very six to seven men defense. It
hasn't been one particular standout. I mean, I think Josh
Roll is probably fairly in there. Mark Keen I would
have slipped out for Wilkie. I think I think it's
been very good, but hasn't been forty four man all
Australian squad exceptional. Josh battle was an intriguing one, another

(05:29):
one that maybe could have made way for Wilkie if
you really wanted to keep Keen in there.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
I'm fine with giving the Hawks defense some respect. I
think they allowed the third fewest points in the camp. Yeah,
so that makes some sense.

Speaker 4 (05:39):
Yeah. I think, like Adelaide, they've been just very good
all round their defense. Yeah, and then the OUTSI mean,
Sherry is probably the glaring one. I'm quite big on
Jack Higgins. I think I looked at it earlier. Long
I think had seven less goals but played two less games.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
He was going to kick eight against Istendon as we know.

Speaker 4 (05:56):
Yes, he's got I guess he's got one more game
in hand.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
I think Higgins was ranked six in the comfort in
some fifty tackles as well.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
Yeah, his pressure is always there and Long's probably that
better overhead mark and can play a little bit taller
than what he looks.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
He's also got the narrative of this is a breakout
season for him. Who would have thought Ben Long would
be in all Australian contention coming into the year, So
that helps in that situation.

Speaker 4 (06:16):
It's a tie, a bit of an underdog, you know,
he goes down it a little bit in the last
few years.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
Yeah, broadly speaking, I think they were cowardly is a
strong word, but cowardly to go from from forty men
to forty four because there are never the forty fifth
man was never going to make the team.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Right.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
They have removed the drama of who truly gets snubbed
by expanding the squad a little bit to have basically
a first and second team. They don't pick a second
team because they don't have the positions for it. But yeah,
so I think it's mostly fine pretty much everyone he
missed the ruckman, like the fact that you've got three
in the squad and you could have put the two in.
Sherry gets overrated a little bit because of fantasy scores
and stuff like that. Like he's clearly very good, but

(06:58):
the other ruckman who got picked through other things better
that maybe are more important.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Do you think the All Australian selectors are rebelling against
AFL fantasy.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Coaches specifically this but they love super coaches actually, so yes,
on Breen, I think you could go Sherry over Jackson.

Speaker 4 (07:12):
I'd personally be okay with that. Who is your biggest snub.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Ben, I think Wilkie's pretty hard done by. I agree
with your sentiment that of the yeah, those two Crows. Yeah,
I can see Warrel getting in there. He's probably been
a little bit more consistent than Keen across the season,
but Wilkie again has held pretty strong down backs. So
that was that was probably my biggest one. But I'd
be fascinating to see how this All Australian team goes
against Mars and a couple of that's right, Thursday Night.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
The most exciting part of the All Australian reveal, of
course being seeing who is at the event and knowing
that they have made the team. So the spoilers you
get from purely watching the broadcasts always fun.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yes, it is just and then one other one before
we get into our breerial reviews. The finals fixture has
two thirds been confirmed.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
Max Well teams venues dates but not timed and not
two of the teams.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, roughly two thirds. Yeah, about two thirds. Were you
surprised by the fact that the AFL is somewhat bucked
with recent tradition and starting the finals fixed you with
the two qualifying finals? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (08:13):
So the last four years, I think they've liked to
pair the qualifying final and elimination final, where those two
results woul those teams will play each other in a
semi finals the next week to negate the effect of breaks,
because in this scenario, the Thursday night game Crows Collingwood,
the loser of that will play GWS or whoever GWS
plays who play on Saturday. So there's quite a lot

(08:33):
of a breaks difference. But I think you can negate
that a bit by making that semi final be on
a Saturday, which I think what they'll do. But otherwise,
you know, GWS or whoever is getting a six day
break and travel heading into a semi final, which is
a bit harsh, but it made sense when you look
at the actual games. Look, the qualifying finals were the
two most appetizing games. GWS hosting a final and Gold

(08:53):
Coast being in a final. Commercially not as exciting, even
if like purely for footy fans, those are exciting and
we're gonna love all of them, but they're just not
a Friday. GWSB Hawthorne is not really a Friday night
game that the AFL wants to spotlight for ratings purposes.
They want the MCG in that time slot. They loved
doing the Adelaide games on Thursday nights. Yeah, it all
made sense to me.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, okay, any for the thoughts on.

Speaker 4 (09:15):
That, No, No, I think maxic now on the head.
I can't understand why the AFA was doing it, and
they haven't confirmed the times, but that Friday game will
be this Saturday night. Yeah. I think GBS almost wanted
that day game for that extra half day break. Is
that right? Maximize crowd attenders?

Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, the hope is that they get more people there,
probably maybe a twilight because you'll have the later game
with Freo hosting.

Speaker 4 (09:34):
So maybe four four fifteen yep, and then.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
At eight ten, four ten and eight ten they usually
leave a bit of a bigger break. And the only
question then is like if Gold Coast is getting to
that game or if they get to the GWS game.
So I don't know if the travel comes into it.

Speaker 4 (09:48):
Very tough on Gold Coast if they win that game
and it have to fly back the next day and
then they're potentially playing Friday.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Night, I think they would end up doing it. Yeah,
they would do it the Friday night. Yeah, it's gonna
be rough for that Frio game if they end up
playing that Friday up, but someone has to do it,
and that's the penalty you get from finishing the bottom
half of the eight well. So I think the most
likely scenario we anticipate at the moment, considering the injury
issues for Essenon at the moment and the potential lack
of motivation for them and the motivation for gold Coast,

(10:16):
is that the Sun's win by five or more goals max. Yes,
which means that it would be a Fremantle Gold Coast
Final in Perth and the Giants would play Hawthorne. There
is a discussion around the Fox Footy office this morning
saying is there a straight sets watch on the loser
of Adelaide Collingwood because they would run Intows or Hawthorne.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
I did my bracket on Sunday night. I always do
it on the Sunday night, just like first reactions. It
couldn't finalize it, but I did it with the Suns
playing Freo and all of that stuff, and I had.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Collingwood going out.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yes, of course he did not about Collingwood, but about
the fact that they're getting Adelaide and then I think
they'd be getting Hawthorne because I think Hawthorne wins that
elimination finally into the Giants if they get that. So
there's absolutely a watch. That is the hardest side of
the bracket for sure. Brisbane or Geelong the two flag
favorites in most people eyes. Getting Freeo or Gold Coast
is a you know, any final can be lost and

(11:11):
it's an even season, but Geelong or Brisbane will be
heavily favored in that semi final against Freo or Gold Coast.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Could you see and this has happened a few times
every years. I think back to twenty fifteen, it was
Hawthorne on West Coast, twenty eighteen West Coast and Collingwood. Yes,
one of the first qualifying final and an ending up
being the Grand Final. So maybe a Brisbane Geelong.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, I think that's that was the end result I
had with my right I had Brisbane beating Geelong because
I think that's one of the worst matchups for Geelong.
This is going to be their best chance to win
it because of their Brisbane's injury list. But I still
think Brisbane wins it. And then I had Geelong going
the long way, including beating Adelaide, because Adelaide just feels
like when you have a breakthrough season like this, a
prelim loss feels like the right result, like all right,

(11:50):
well next year we'll get them.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah, we'll be better next year. It's a learning experience,
I agree.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
I saw a graphic last night that I fell put
up and I hadn't clicked in my mind, but that
was the biggest turnaround in the Sea ever in for
AFL history, from fifteenth to first. So it is ever
going to be a rule like that. That's applicable to
a team on a step rise. It's going to be
this year.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
It's motivation for the bottom ten this year as we
have a look at our brutal reviews for twenty twenty five.
So we put out as we do the Monday after
the end or the usual end of the home and
away season, we reviewed the well at this stage the
bottom nine teams. We've left the Bulldogs or Sons out
at the moment just because we've been kind to Essendon,

(12:29):
but we did a grade for each each club, so
let's start from the bottom up there. Max, we gave
West Coast an f. It's pretty hard to give the
Eagles anything other when you win just one game in
the season when you have the worst record of the
AFL ERA. Yeah, I think that's probably fair.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
It's look, they are not the worst team of the
AFL ERA. Fitzroy ninety six were worse. West Coast two
years ago were probably worse when they had a percentage
in the fifties, and they upset the Dogs late in
the year to get their second wink. But one win
and twenty two losses the most we've ever seen and
you have to give them an Their fits it's just
these are the things that happen at the botto of
the ladder. Richmond were not four wins better than West Coast,

(13:09):
but they won four extra games because random stuff happens sometimes.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
They learned a lot.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
They got some positives in terms of guys finally coming
through in the draft, guys picked later in the draft.
Drepe Shanahan the liked to them.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
Looking pretty good.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
So there are finally reasons to be optimistic. But it
was another step backwards, and you can understand why you
would be concerned that it's sill gonna be another few
years until they're actually any good.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
I don't say there was just no real sign of
improvement from a lot of the guys who've been at
the club for a little while. I mean, maybe someone
like a Campbell chess So who came into the team
very late, showed a.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Little bit of promise finally showed something at least.

Speaker 4 (13:42):
Yeah, exactly, So, I mean there's very small parts of positivity.
I'd love to know Drew Jones Zanglon. Now this season's done, but.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
I think he might be on Baby Watch rather than
West Coast Watch at the moment.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Oh, you'd be surprised he's been pretty busy away full
Dowek Fantasy Podcast, isn't he just so what we're going
to get you to do for? Because run your I
over the where to now for each of these clubs,
And from a least perspective, we know that Oscar Allen
with an intriguingly timed press release max oh my god,
five point thirty pm during free oh clinching a finals

(14:14):
place is exactly when to drop that track They drop
that Oscar Allen has officially informed West Coast he wants
out with via free agency after an exit meeting on
a Friday, so before the game on Saturday, still waiting
for the Harley read response with the anticipation that Harley
will make a call over to re sign or to
move this year, despite still having one year to go
on his contract. Where the Eagles placed from that perspective.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
Statistically via Champion Data, they have lost their clearance count
by eleven per game this year, So you know that
is awful. That is on track to be the worst
season on record, right, So yeah, that's that's which says
a fair bit and those that would have listened a
few weeks ago. Throughout the last couple months would have
heard the names like Jack Steele, those inside midfielders, even

(15:01):
like an Adelaide Matt Crouch's that's where they need it.
Stell would be perfect for it, he would.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Be, but just well perfect for what, perfect for being
better the next two years?

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Does that really matter? If he was prepared to be
self let son, he'd probably get some decent coin to
get over there. But if he was prepared to go
over there and set the tone in the midfield, a
midfield that is a bit disjointed at the moment, with
Tim Kelly not at his best, that that sort of
not working out. From a West Coast perspective, Elioto not
be able to get his body right, Harley Reid probably

(15:31):
needing a senior figure if he stays a senior figure around.
If Jack was prepared to put premiership aspirations on the
back burner, I don't know whether that'd be in his
itaty sinking, but I do think it'd be a really
good fit. But he would have to be quite it'd
be a humbling move I think for him to do that.

Speaker 4 (15:50):
No, of course, of course, and hopefully if he did it,
I'm sure he'd get a lot out of it. Personally guiding.
I mean the ability to guide someone like Harley Read
if he stays, I think would be great, be awesome
to put on your resume. The way I see it
with players like Jack Still, and as to why I
think West Coast need them, is just getting the ball
in their hands, like they haven't had anyone that's actually
given someone like a highly ridded Chante to even dash

(16:11):
out of contest. Contest the situation. So in some teams
where they're running gun, those slower inside midfielders aren't necessarily favorable.
But I think just getting the ball in the hands
of players and giving them a chance to run with
it is important because they don't have someone like that
at the moment. So that's certainly where that needs to
improves their midfield depth.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
The fact that you know Tom McCarthy comes into the
mid season, yes, first player all year. For them to
get thirty disposals in a game in his first game
show just how much they weren't getting the ball, So
that does make a lot of sense they get some
midfield help. Are they going to get midfield help in
the draft, assuming that they get picks one and two
with Oscar Allen's free agency comple so.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
I think they will take at one of Willem Dursmo
or Cooper duff Tyler. Dursm is like described to me
as like the Brendan Goddard type and sort of put
him anywhere. But I hate the Prets Award hate That's right,
Brendan god I knocking off for the pre off the table.
So yeah, that's the player comparison, and duff Tyler is
a ruck forward really, so for two very different players,

(17:07):
and Eagles fans love dice and sharp that. So who's
the interesting best? I could say you're probably yeah, best
pure met in the open draft, I think so, But yeah,
whether they get that inside mid via trade remains rains
to be seen.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
They look at sorry Max Kruber, Duff Tyler. Was he
someone that you think would be good to replace someone
like Oscar Allen?

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, he's more ruck though than Oscar is here Luke
Jackson type. I haven't seen that generous. I haven't seen
the he follows up at ground level. But to actually
be a genuine midfielder as a ruck rover, I'm not
a maybe maybe maybe he can develop into that. He's
two hundred centimeters so he's got he's got high. We've

(17:51):
got to keep moving though. Richmond, despite finishing seventeenth, got
a B. Yeah, and I think that's they exceeded it.
From a wins perspective, they exceeded expectations.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
You could honestly give them an A like for five wins.
I don't think anyone would have predicted that they won
that many games. And this is the flip side of
what I talked about with West Coast. They were not
that good, but they just got some results, which makes
you feel way better about them going forward. And we
knew that they were going to have a lot of
young talent coming in the door. Not all of them
played a lot, you know, we didn't say Laura that
much and guys like that.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
It's see Josh Smiley at all.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
So you want to You wanted to get more time
into them if possible, But you can't be upset with
the five wins season, even if it means the next
year it'd easily be a step backwards year, like they
could have been four or three next year, and that
would not surprise me at all, because you're going to
start You're going to keep cycling the older guys out,
keep making the list even younger. Even though they had
something like what sixteen or eighteen players age twenty three

(18:40):
or younger on their list, they should get even younger,
which can only be good for them in four or
five years time where they want to be good again.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
It's just a case from a list perspective, fourk of
them just going back to the draft really sounds likely.

Speaker 4 (18:52):
I think so. I haven't seen or heard so many
links to Richmond on the trade front, so it's not
time for them to do that. No, I don't think
so either got the.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Two picks this year, considering they have North Melbourne's first round,
so three.

Speaker 4 (19:03):
And four you would suspect yeah, yeah, which yeah, as
you both said, can only be a good thing for them.
They're okay with letting someone like a Canda Macintosh go,
which tells me they're backing in their youth.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
I think.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
I think he's been quite serviceable personally in the midfielder
is a bit of a veteran guiding light for a
few of the young guys. Champion data say that two
way midfielder is what they need the most. So Richmond
can see the third most goals to opposition midfielders this season.
So someone who can work both ways. But that's young
guys probably just finding their feet.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Marcus Windhager, he would be a good fit.

Speaker 4 (19:36):
No, no, it hasn't mean linked to Richmond, but someone
like that who's very He's got a very good defensive
game and has shown that he can accumulate the ball
as well. So yeah, I think he's fitting into more
and more clubs.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
North Melbourne C minus their worst this year was really bad,
but they did come up with some impressive performances and
I suppose overall showed growth.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
I think you could probably to see minus hinting down yes,
because the bed yes, yes, it is a very very
large one. It's the bare minimum. Was escaping the bottom too,
and they did that by a draw against Brisbane, but
by a draw, yes, So you realistically, when you look
at Essendon with half the list injured all year and

(20:18):
North Melbourne with some injuries but nowhere near as many,
they should have probably done a little bit better. And
a lot of people wanted them to be the team
that finally gets okay, gets to eight or nine wins.
I think that was always going to be optimistic. This
was always going to be roughly where I had them,
But I could totally understand being a little concerned that
they're still not showing as much as you want. Clarkson's
third season at the Helm, so you wanted more development.

(20:39):
There are just too many games that they just look
like a rabble defensively. Yes, the recruits that they brought in,
some of them did their job, particularly the older guys
Parker and Darling just you know, did what you would
expect those players to do at their age. But Calum
Daniel hasn't worked already. That does not appear to be
a successful move. And that's a tick in the Bulldogs column,
in fact, one of many from their departure last off season.

(21:01):
But no, North Melbourne next year has to be the
year they get to at least okay, they have to
be at least in that eleventh or fourteenth bracket or
else you start to get really worried.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah. So yeah, they were the second worst defensive team
in the competition this year. Defense continues to plague this
team would be an issue for them, even though they
were pretty good offensively. But going back the other way
will they were exposed? So where does that leave them?
From a list perspective?

Speaker 4 (21:27):
That leaves them needing an intercepting defender. So only Charlie
combenraated above average or better for intercept possessions this season,
and we saw he breakout might be a little bit strong,
but he really excelled in the role that he was
given down back and clearly just didn't have much support.
I mean, Toby Pink was infrequently popping up and had
a good month during the middle of the season King's Man.

(21:47):
So yeah, I mean I thought it's worth I sit
probably more on the pessimistic side with North. I think
it's almost heavy deep plus. If anything, I just feel
like we had the exact same conversations last year about them,
and after twelve months they don't really have any much
more to show for it other than the fact that Richmond.
I mean, their list has been well documenteds to how

(22:09):
young it is and West Coaster as bad as what
their record suggests just about so interceptor fend will be
number one on the hit list. Who would go there,
I don't know. There's a lot of chat about the Bulldogs,
which we'll go on to later, and you know, key defenders,
and I'm sure they'd be in the market for someone
similar to who they're looking for.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Paul Curtis is a legit very good player, Yes good
big tick. Him and Tristan Sherry have been big tis.
He could be an eight greater Essendon still to play
one game. I did their brutal review on Sunday and
it was just hard to overlook the fact that, yeah,
you're they're going to have twenty players in their injury
list for Wednesday's Wednesday's game. So that's why I keep
saying that it's a VFL team. They're essentially yeah playing

(22:49):
But a lot of their recruits, of their mid season
recruits have been okay. Blackiston has surprised me as a defender,
May has been pretty good.

Speaker 4 (22:57):
McMahon, I think it's been very.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Mcmart's been solid. No guarantee to get another contract, but
that would.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Be crazy if they let him new and guys let
that go. They've shown play.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
You and resigned great. So you do what did we
give them in the end? I gave them. I initially
had them in F but then I thought, yeah, I
gave them a D minus.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
So and you could honestly give them a slightly higher
grade because of what they've had to overcome. Like I know,
we ended up picking settling on the D minus. But
like the one positive about all of these injuries is
that it shouldn't happen again, and this is the year
to have that because they weren't going to contend this
year anyway. This was the year where they intentionally did
nothing in the trade period. They intentionally just took CaCO,

(23:39):
just did their draft stuff and then tried to have
a development year and it's turned into the ultimate development year.
So if it has turned out that this is the
year you learned a lot about some guys who are
cycling through the bottom of your list and are going
to be pretty good contributors to the bottom half of
your best twenty two in two three years time, that's
useful that they've gotten something out of this year. So
you know, you don't like to see a team in

(24:00):
seventeen games when they want to be when they've been
average basically for four or five years. But it's a
step back that could help them take a step forwards,
which they desperately need to take.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
So I'm fine with it.

Speaker 4 (24:09):
They had a great look at a lot of their lists.
I think there's every chance that you and probably get
delisted if it wasn't for the injury. Crisis, he wouldn't
have been a chance to look at him again. McMahon Blackiston.
I think it would be absolutely insane if they don't
give McMahon a contract and who said that, he still
hasn't got one for next year. But he's a little
bit one dimensional as a forward, like he's very much
lead up and mark and kick goal. But hell, if

(24:31):
that's giving you three goals a game like, I don't
know why you would turn it down because no one
else has been able to do it.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
No one else has that dimension on the list.

Speaker 4 (24:36):
Exactly exactly, so what is it?

Speaker 2 (24:39):
So what do they need?

Speaker 4 (24:41):
Ball user? They are one of two clubs to not
have a top fifty kick in the competition this season
based on kicking rating, so that's just delivery and nothing
that speaks to a couple of the guys that aren't
going to have contracts with them next year. It's always
been a big paun, someone like a Dylan Shill who
has a lot to offer, but kicking is probably not
his strong suit and when the in his hands the

(25:01):
most amount of time. Yeah, they just.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Need midfield depth, I think in general as well. Harley
read it'd be nice, but it feels like, if he
does leave, it's not to Essendon.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
No, I don't know if he's the elite kick they're
looking for.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Not a kick, but they just need another star in it.
They just a staff actor in that midfield.

Speaker 4 (25:20):
They are locked in with a lot of guy they're
sort of guys who were meant to be in their
prime right out now. Darcy Parish and Andrew mcart McGrath's
and McGrath's played three games this year. He did in
twelve last year. He's had fifteen games since re signing
in the end of twenty twenty three. He's contracted to
the end of twenty twenty nine. McGrath looked really good
in the midfield this year. That was a small positive
at the back end. I thought he's contracted with twenty thirty.

(25:41):
So you're going to have to build the core around
these guys. And as you said, star power maybe is
the way to go.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
Zach Barrett thirty in October. Yeah, I can't waste this. No,
you can't waste one of your best players of the last.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Thirty years, best and most loyal players.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
Like easily could have taken an enormous amount of money
to leave last year or this year.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
It isn't.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
It is continually underrated as one of the better players
of the last of the AFL era, of the eighteen
team era.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
So Melbourne finished fourteenth Maxie and like two games behind
Port Adelaide, so that you could we're group in Melbourne
here with a lot of these with the Essendon, North
Melbourne and Richmond. Really well they're not, but they're not
because they have a percentage of ninety three death so
that's a much more accurate reflection of what they are.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
If they do not have the Messiah Messiah miracle game,
then they're ahead of Saint Kilda in the ladder and
that's in a more accurate reflection where they were at right,
So they were zip and five to start the year.
They make some changes, they get a lot better. They
end up going zip and six in games decided by
a kick, including losing Collingwood twice. Yes, a bunch of
games where they were just clearly in the mix. They

(26:45):
had the Boardogs game late in the year where they
absolutely could have won that. So they were so close
to being average, which is not where you want to be.
They want to be better than average, but they were
so close to being average and not being seven and sixteen,
which completely overstates where they're at. They finished fourteenth again,
but there is still if you are the coach who
comes in to this job and you make the call
that no, I think we can be good for the

(27:06):
next two three years. This can be our Collingwood or
GWS style step back year before we get back into contention.
You can make that case. I think they probably still
need more changes, and it depends on what they do
in the trade period, how aggressive they get, whether I
would believe them to rock it up the ladder next year.
But I could absolutely see them. I could absolutely make
the case and it probably will statistically that they should
be better next year.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
And they from a fixture perspective they finished in the
bottom six as well, so it helps should be looked
after a little bit there. So MAXI sort of flagged
the potentiallys chasms to fill.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
Yeah. So right now as things stand, their key forward,
which is totally unsurprising. I mean they want a premiership
without a genuine superstar key forward. Back in twenty twenty one,
you're looking at Ben Brown and Bailey Fridge carrying them there.
But they had seventy to two goals for the season
between Melkshrim, Jack Melstrim, Harry Petty, Jacko Van Ruin who
spent a third of time in the VFL, Matt Jefferson
and Aidan Johnson. So that's not pulling you into finals.

(27:57):
I don't think this has been a critique of their
side for I mean ever since I won the premiership.
Really certainly on my end as well, so looking for
a key forward, but even looking forward, the likes of
Stephen May and to a lesser extent Jack Leaver is
certainly going to be on the trade table by their
own fruition or potentially the club wanting to move them
on for a bit of capital. So that also will
be a very big hole they'll need to feel if

(28:20):
they are contending for that premiership, like Brad Green has
said they are, they will have to be very active
because I think I think it's a good chance that
Stephen May is not at Melbourne in two months time,
so Judd mcveee is still still still undecided, uncontracted. Stephen
May has still got a year or two left, believe
he has a year so and the sense is that

(28:42):
the d still want to keep Jake Lever despite him
being omitted at times throughout twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
I'd rather let May go than leave her.

Speaker 4 (28:50):
If they s I get yeah, I think the currency
is probably with May because a club like the Western
Bulldogs who want him are right now in that frame.
I think that's why. I mean, Leva's only twenty nine,
so Stephen May is contracted just for twenty twenty six,
but not beyond that. So yeah, it'd be fascinating. I
think lever my understanding is good when departing the club

(29:12):
or parting ways with Melbourne gives him a little bit
of a reset. I don't think it was frustration, particularly
with Goodwin, but it's a reset in itself that he
can have, so he might be more inclined to state
at Melbourne than what was first reported. And I think
now Stephen May is closer and close to going out
of the door.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Van Ruyden contracted until the end of twenty twenty nine. Yes,
it's not the best deals of a lot of long
term deals there at the d's heavily scrutinized. In hindsight,
what I'm saying is Cane Corns was right about everything.
Speaking of a corns Port Adelaide, No, they finished thirteenth
of the ladder, so they get the They even in
the bottom six of the year fixture angs year, and
thirteenth is always quite a nice place to finish from

(29:50):
a fixture speak.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
For two years in a row that's thirteenth made the
Grand Final the next year and I think eighteen and
not seventeen.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
From a So it is a reset totally at Port
Adelaide with a guy that's been in the door for
quite some time, Josh Carr. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
So what I like they're doing is that that could
easily be the continuation higher because Josh car has been
there for so long, But they are clearly making moves
even with their immediate delistings. Guys like Ryan Burton and
Finland who could easily be contributed as next year at
a average club Collywood could use Jeremy finn Lissen, something
like that. Ryan Burton absolutely could get a gig next year.

(30:25):
Guys like that who could otherwise be fine average players
for an average team. They're actually just using those list spots.
So that makes sense to me that they're actually trying
to move something forward because they know that the one
strength of this list is its incredible talent in its
youth brigade that core of young talent may have even
without getting one getame Miller makes them an absolute contender
in a few years time, or even next year if

(30:47):
they get the right moves around them. It's very hard
to get all those moves correct, which means they're probably
not going to be their next year. But I could
see them certainly being better than having a percentage of
seventy nine point eight, which I think is more reflective
of you turn off a little mentally with the Hinckley
stuff that made them even before their season fell completely
off a cliff.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
They were losing games by fifty players, had some horrendous losses.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
Their worst was bottom four level worse so. But we
also saw games like the Gold Coast game, which, while
fortunate and that's those are the sorts of games that
usually happen more often during a year where the home
team who isn't that good, just randomly wins, maybe because
of some unboring decisions. Who could say, Boys of Afirmation,
perhaps those games are why we have this weird ladder.
Not enough of them, but you know, they get a

(31:30):
few of those going their way, they get the twelve
wins next year.

Speaker 4 (31:32):
I could say that This is one or two ways.
Not that that's really going out on limb saying that,
but yeah, I mean Carr is certainly making his mark.
It's fascinating. It's probably one word you could say. With
the list changes. I think Burton would be someone, as
you said, that could easily be picked up by another club.
He's under delivered since coming to port but that's not
to say that he won't be in assets to another club.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Blackball games from the trade he was in than wing guard.
Yeah you remember that was almost a swap, although they
also got our Dursmark think the do pick in Yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:02):
I mean Finlayson has been dominant at Sandford level this year,
but you know it was never never had a look
in the second half of the season. Deal Williams running
was on the wall. Lucky Charleston didn't went without playing
a game. Hugh Jackson was the one who fans they're
not happy with the Yett They weren't. He didn't play
a NFL game in his first three years. I believe
he was delisted. Rerookied at the back end of last year.

(32:23):
Played nine games This year looked promising in limits of
game time. Now they could re rookie him after but
that's nothing official, but you know he's someone that they
would look at. And then William Ewly retired, which we'll
go into the small forwards in the set. Jed mcintee
was also delisted. Then you have Travis Boch and Rory
Atkins who had retired. So that's that's nine changes from

(32:46):
a list front and they've delisted Charleston mcintee. Rioli is retired,
Hugh Jackson is someone who could have played a similar role,
like you could have fited him in if you wanted
to keep him. And also Dylan Williams who played in
the full line at the back end for the Power.
So it's got to lean in very perfectly into what
they need. It's a small forward, so it's fascinating to

(33:06):
me that they have culled so many players in that area.
Tom Anasttlopoulos, who has been on the list for two
years now, hasn't played a game. He's been playing more
of a wing role in the sandfild, but he is
someone who they could throw as a small forward. Has
he got another contract down there, No, he's still unsigned
but hasn't been delisted yet. So and then you've got
will Lorenz, who's also out of contract, hasn't hasn't signed on,

(33:28):
but hasn't been delisted. So I'd imagine they're getting to
that stage now where they're probably going to keep those guys,
but there isn't a standout small forward, which is a
big concern for mine because it's been a revolving door.
Francis sevens was in their best twenty three last year's
Prelium final got delisted, as was Fantasia I believe the
year but last year year before sounds right, yeah, whenever

(33:49):
he was let go by Port he was also in
their best twenty three. It's been a bit of a struggle,
much like Carlton with their small forwards, who ironically Fantasia
and France sevens are playing there now.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
They got Bury last year in the dry so and
Richard's came in from Collegeen and a lot of those
guys you mentioned who were delisted were late national draft
picks yes as well, and that was that's the result
of them going very hard at the trade table for
some of these bigger names and a lot of these
guys who didn't have as much talent at the top
end that doesn't quite come on this is the risk

(34:20):
you take when you try and go not all in,
but almost all in for a flag. They didn't get one.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
They came close, they had their home prelimbs, but they
didn't get over the line. And then when you have
a donut hole of drafting, it gives you a donut
hole on your list. They don't have a first round
pick this year either, which is odd when you're making
so much space on your list, So you're going to
have to You're gonna get a lot of players in
from somewhere.

Speaker 4 (34:38):
I don't know where though. Yeah, this is where I
say go one or two. I think it could go
very wrong, or it could be proven proving the correct move.
This tells me that they are really still hunting by McCreary.
I know it's been reported that, you know, he's very
happy at Collingwood, but they have to have someone lined
up because they don't have that first round pick. And
it would be pretty ballsy to say Leeds to be

(35:00):
going after someone who might have a second, third, fourth
round rookie pick to be your guy to start round
one as a small forward. So it's been an area
that needed to improve on, and only even more so
now given the list changes, but you know, money lady,
he was a midseason drafteem could be put in that role.
But there's nothing jumping out, I'll say that much.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
Sin Kilda finished nine and fourteen percentage of eighty eight
and a half. Their biggest winner of the season came
a couple of weeks ago when they resigned a sire
correct they are about to bring in Tom de cooning
on reportedly not seven but an eight year deal.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
Yeah, who were they negotiating against that they needed to
raise their offer from seven to eight years.

Speaker 4 (35:41):
I'm not sure any inside of that feels like a
club statement. I'm being deadly serious. It felt like it
was this we're saying, we are going to get the
big fish. We're going to make sure that you know
he's ours. And around the time that that price was reported,
he was playing unbelievable football. Everyone has seen the coning ceiling.
Unfortunately for him and you know, perhaps sank Kilda. He
hasn't lived up to that price tag since. But it's

(36:01):
a bloody hard price tag to live up to.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
So it's unfortunate because when you hear one point seven
million the second highest salary next year after his teammate nas. Yes,
you expect a lot from the player and it means
he's going to go to Secure with enormous expectations that
are almost impossible to meet because he has to be
the player he was in the first half of this
season for Carlton when he was arguably and all Australian
contender at ruck to meet that level. And if he's not,

(36:24):
that you're paying for his ceiling is the problem, and
this is the securita predicament. They've got themselves into where
they have all this money and needed to pay someone
almost for the sake of finally someone took our money. Yes,
because they could not have another year when no one did,
so they had to give someone. They had to overpay
just to pay. And now that they've done it, they can,
in their ideal scenario, build off this have the next

(36:46):
two years where they've gotten as locked in, be actually
a contender, maybe get into the eight and maybe it's
this sort of virtuous cycle where success breeds success and
more players finally want to come and then they get
to be contenders.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
That's clearly the plan.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
If it doesn't work, a lot of your cap on
two players, one of them we know is very good
one of them can be, but is going to cop
more pressure than most ever had at Saint Kilda, a
club where expectations are really that high.

Speaker 4 (37:11):
Yes, and without trying to sound too pessimistic, but you've
got to coning locked in long term and I know
contracts don't mean everything these days. You can still move
out of that. The sides contracted for two years, so
this is the window. This is the window because you've
got to reset after that. And if he doesn't like
what he says, he's going to have not just two
clubs from South Australia, He's going to have seventeen other clubs, sorry,
fifteen other clubs across the competition. Where they struggled this

(37:34):
year was defensive stock. So they consider the fifth most
goals to opposition key Fords this season, which is like
cal wilk. Yeah, interesting, it's an interesting contrary to how
you played this seasons.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
So from a Saints perspective, though it feels like we
know who's coming in, it's what's going to happen with
the guys who have some uncertainty both contracted and uncontracted.
At the moment, they could be worse next year.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
You reckon if Marshall goes, if enough guys and it's
Steel and Wilkie.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
I don't think he's going, and still probably isn't, but
is a chance Winegen micaheah, there's a chance they're worse.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
They're adding one player right now to Conning because they
had nads this year and they won nine games with
him being elite yeh yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:15):
Being so far beyond the lead, something funny and you
lose Marshall, right, like I mean, I think it's logical,
and Marshall would be totally within his rights to leave,
I think too long as the club that's been heaviest
linked to him. But the next game between Marshall and
de Coning isn't massive, and as Max said, there's a
world where you know, their season could be very different
with it if it wasn't for a couple of he

(38:35):
wrote performances from the Sigh and a couple others, So
they could very well be worse.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
Keeping my nine wins over and flated how good they were.
They had five games which they won by single digits,
including four in a row in that run to in
the year where they got to nine wins, So look,
they took a step back this year in many ways
and expected them to suddenly be contenders next year like
they want to be is optimistic in my view.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
So the Saints got to in their grade and Carlton,
like Melbourne and Port Adelaide remissiing me to miss those. Carlton,
Port Adelaide and Melbourne all got d's Yeah Blue higher expectations.
The Blues have held on to Michael Voss, but there's
been a fair bit of change since from a football
department perspective. Coaching. Brad Lloyd's not going to be there.

(39:20):
Three of their assistant coaches On Tuesday, it's been announced
won't be there in twenty twenty five exit meetings. At
the moment, the media has parked out at icon Park.
It's death taxes and stakeouts at icon Park. With the
likes of Jack Sulvanney, Tom Da Koning and Charlie kernab
had to have exit meetings as well. It hasn't ended

(39:42):
brilliantly for.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
The Blues, so things could easily get more dramatic over
the next few weeks if those exit meetings go a
certain way and players want out or get lured out.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
We'll see if that changes.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
As it is I know you guys aren't big NFL guys,
but this feels like the NFL team where the head
coaches in trouble, you sack the offensive coordinator, blame him
for everything, bring someone in, and the next year you
get sacked because it wasn't his problem, it was the
List and the coach. Right, So if Carlton's no good
again next year, boss goes, that's as clear as mud
right now, clear as day. Rather so he's coaching for

(40:14):
his career. The List is playing for its premiership window
because they are aging and aging, and we know that
this last half decades, when they've been built to triinally
finally win a flag, they've they've got chances to get better.
They should get better next year. They should at some
point not have a million injuries. Jago Smith will come back.
They should have reasons for optimism. The guys who were

(40:35):
there are not so old that they can't still be
very good next year. But a lot has to go
right for them to live up to their stealing and
their potential. And if they even just have another middling
thirteen win season and finish sixth or seventh, I don't know.
Do you sack voss in that scenario.

Speaker 4 (40:52):
Nah, I don't think so. If you go from where
they were in the Ladder interfinals contention, I.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
Think, but that's just falling.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
That's coming back to where they were last though, Like,
it's not a big rise. It's three years of purgatory.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Even if you do that, it's a body, it's a
body of if you did remove me, it's a body
of work removal, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
In that scenario, you're either playing for your final future
in the last two weeks or you're falling off a
cliff again and then clinging on like they did last year.
So either way, it's not an exciting, great way to
live your life.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
So what do you think their past mark is for
next year?

Speaker 2 (41:23):
For Voss? Fourteen wins? Okay, fourteen wins.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
Because that in a normal year gets you into the
eight in a reasonable position, and then they've got upside
from there. But the last two years and the teams
they've beaten and the many more teams they've lost to
suggests that they are not that team that everyone thinks
they can be.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Would Carlton be better off with just Harry mccoytte full
for and they do. Let Charlie Kerno go to Sydney.
It depends what they get.

Speaker 4 (41:48):
Yeah, yeah, it's going to be just an incredible price
that we probably wouldn't have seen since someone like Jeremy
Cameron departed. And I mean Jeremy may have been in
a slightly high peak when he was when he left Gows,
but I mean it's a dual Colin medallist and he
hasn't had a he hasn't had the cleanest of runs
this year through injury. It's I don't know. I think

(42:08):
I think the media and the general populace may have
forgotten just a little bit how Charlie, how good Charlie
Kurno was and is, But it's unproven. I mean, we're
not going to know until next year whether he's at
a different club Black Sydney or whether he's at Carlton.
It's one of those ones that I don't think we'll
know when to be retrospectively find out.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
They'll need a small forward as well. The small forward
stocks are there, but they just do not have the
class and the quality.

Speaker 4 (42:29):
There not a single player raised inside the top forty
five for General Fords. And it sort of goes back
that discussion we were speaking about Port Adelaide. Like the guys,
they're leaning on Arazio Fantasia, three club small forward, Frants
Seven's three clubs small forward. And to be fair to Frankie,
he had a very good finish to his season. His
last two or three games were exceptional for Carleton. But yeah,

(42:50):
they've got all the talent in the world when it
comes up forward with Colonel and McKay's they're big tools,
but their small forward role has been a revolving door
for a long time now. And I don't know if
those two or Jesse even we're white different.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
They're not the solution.

Speaker 4 (43:03):
No, they're not. There's no way.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
Even Frankie Evans having a good month of footy is
not a solution. He could be a fine player, he
could be your second or third small forward, but he's
not your best one.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
I thought, I honestly thought Jesse mightlot would be the solution,
particularly at the start of the year, but he's just not.
Come on. The Swan's got a C minus and which
is considering when they won a grand final last season, Yes,
and well we're in the grand final. Sorry, in a
grand final. Apologies. They won the minor premiership and then
made the Grand Final, got humiliated and they finished tenth

(43:34):
on the AFL Ladder. C minus might be a bit
of an odd grape, but the back end of their
season I think should give Swans fans optimism for twenty
twenty six.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
So it's context, right, Yeah, they were the team once
they got all the injured players back that we thought
they would be. If they were that team for the
full year, they would have played finals, they would have
won fifteen odd games, would have made it in you know,
they would have been a contender, maybe in the same
way that Brisbane was in that. You know, you take
a bit of a step back after you make the
Grand Final.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
But you're clearly still pretty good. So that's about right.
And we know what they are.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
They are a very good midfield with a flawed listed
either end. They still haven't fixed that. Maybe this is
the year they finally do something in the trade period
because for while they haven't and if it is Charlie
Kurno so it cost them a lot.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
It is to be their chance to do something.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
This isn't a ticket I want to have on myself,
but I do remember very vividly saying at the back
end of last year's trade period, Sydney will be defined
by how well they manage their forwards and whether they
go into the trade period and get someone like whether
it was this experienced player like a Jack Darling or
a Sam Day. I don't think it had to be
someone that was a superstar. But they weren't active in
last year's trade period at all and it felt like

(44:37):
they didn't want to rebuild on the fly. And I
know that injuries played a big part as to the
reason why they didn't contend in finals this year, but
in hindsight, for me, it's also quite hard to think
they could have been a little bit more aggressive with
that and not been so content with what they had
that they had everything that to win it. Because they
didn't last year and they stainly didn't get close this year.
I'll weave this into what they need to improve on.

(44:57):
It's an interceptor and there's a lot of tal points here,
but Tom mccarton playing up forward in the first month
totally lost any intercept game and lockdown game in their
back half.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
It's certain affected Nick Blakie's game too.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
It did well, he was forced to play more as
a hybrid and there aren't too many defenders just because
it's such a hard role. They're able to intercept, defend,
and also lockdown on a player and give that burst
and rebound like the Swan's one when they played that
aggressive sling shot football. The other two players that they
did have on their list who they've probably would have
hoped to rely on down bat I mean, Joe Hamley
ended up playing as a defensive forward, probably not why

(45:30):
they recruited him, No, he's out of place. Robbie Fox
didn't play a single game in the entire twenty twenty five.
Ben Patten was an SSP signing for them and didn't
play a whole at the back end of the season,
So they've probably cheap skating is an unfair but they've
tried to make the most of guys who are probably
fringe players in their best twenty two and it hasn't
held up defensively for them. Dane Rampy is thirty four

(45:52):
years of age, I think, so there's got to be
some change in their back half, not just even from
an intercept point of view, but just lockdown defenders because
Carton can't do it all by himself and Nick Blakey
pays his best football when he's rebounding out of defensive fifty.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
This is also the problem when you draft, as they
have for the last half decade, really really well on
certain picks and then not well at all on the rest.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Thanks hello and welcome Jared here.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
Yes he would like you, Max.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
He does enjoy talking about the Swan's list build, but
they have been incredibly hit and miss and mostly missed
for a while. That means the bottom of your list.
When you want that to be the cheap guys who
come in and play roles really well, they're not that,
so that hurts you even more when you have these injuries.

Speaker 4 (46:31):
So the last thing I'll say in Sydney's where Aaron
Francis is another player who was recruited as a defender
and hasn't He hasn't been play He's been playing as
Award like, been going okay. But all of Francis, Patton Rampy,
Jake Lloyd, I believe still odd a contract, Joel Hamling
and Robbie Fox all there. So it depends where they
want to go with this. But there's a word where
a few of them get cut and it's sort of

(46:51):
like a port adelaide where they sort of have to
make a call in a certain area of the ground
and just hope they can bring in players to rectify it.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
I think the post by form showed that they are
fine going one more time with this group.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
If they can add someone without costing too much from
their depth, that would be great. That would probably get
them over the top. But they're going to be one
of the easy tips to jump into the eight next year.
I think almost everyone is going to have whoever finishes
ninth and the Swans as the two teams jumping in.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
That team who finishes ninth is highly likely to be
the Western Bulldogs. Bizarre scenes today. We know they were
training today with Noble in case the Bombers beat the
Gold Coast Suns.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
Surely a joint training session with the Bombers would have
made more sense. Help them out, guys, This is how
to kick the footy.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
All right. COVID times they had sort of scrimmage themselves
in the VFL competition was cut. Yeah, the Dogs. We
haven't officially done their review for the Dogs yet, but
they miss with potentially fourteen wins and the best percentage
of the AFL ERA to miss the finals of one
hundred and thirty, So the third best percentage in the
competition this year.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
It is it is unless Gold Coast plans on winning
by a million, yep, it will be. So that's the problem, right,
they had a good year. Fortunately eight teams had a
better year. And so where you want to be on
the dogs, you want to be half full or half empty.
I am half full, yes.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
You always have been, and Oil half full as there.

Speaker 3 (48:13):
So I've been big on the Dogs for a couple
of years now, and before that I was actually quite
down to them. But I've been persuaded because look, it
does mean something that you can thrash the bottom ten
and they were so close to winning so many games
that would have got them into the finals.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Yeah. When Catch put up back graphic last night of
the Bulldog's losses against the top nine teams, there were
no thrashings.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
Their biggest loss of the season was twenty two points
against Hawthorne, and they played really two bad games both
at Marvel Hawthorne and then Freeman the round twenty four
game we just saw. Otherwise, you go back to round two.
They sell a home game to the mcg on move
it yes to play Collingwood because they want to celebrate
their anniversary, and then Collingwood has home ground advantage and

(48:59):
gets a fade favorable ride with the umpires and wins
by a kick again where Marcus Bonton Pelly doesn't play.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Do you reckon?

Speaker 3 (49:05):
A few of those factors might have s fung that
result if you played it at Marvel. Maybe so many
close games where injuries because keeping mind injuries were a
big part of their season, Bond wasn't there for the
first six weeks, Darcy misses two months. I want to
say Weightman doesn't play, Jamara has his whole situation, doesn't
play the fact that they were an incredible scoring machine
without Curdy, Weitman and Tomorrow Guguhagen.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
It's crazy.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
They have so much talent, and we know that's the problem,
that they should be delivering on that talent. I think
the problem is more that they built a list that
should have been good right now, and the defenders all
got old at once. Liam Jones has turned into a
bit of a pumpkin. Alex Keith fell off a couple
of years ago and was it seemed like it was
going to be good for a little while and just
disappeared off the face of the Earth, and they had
to rely on guys who just aren't quite good enough.

(49:47):
And if some of those guys had continued to play
as they did the last couple of years, Roy Lobb
as well, then they would have been fine this year.
Last year they were the number one defense for points allowed.
It was very close to the top six or so,
but they were number one, and they should have better
than Freemantle and points allowed.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
This year.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
They had so many things go right, but close games
kill you, and they lost too many against good teams,
and so everyone's gonna say that they were two and
nine against the top nine or whatever it was, and
Freemantle had this incredible record, but Freo won their close games.
The Bulldogs didn't, and so Freo makes the eight.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
I reckon Max has put a feaver of thought into
that into the Bulldogs twenty twenty five campound.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
You can't argue with any of it. And the fifth
player I'm going to add to that quartet of players
that they've missed all year, Adam Trelaw, was an All
Australian last year. He played four games and I think
from memory, and they didn't rush him back to four
fourth and they didn't rush him back after forty and
whatever it was in the VNFL. So it's hard to
look past that. We don't have champion dahtas say on

(50:42):
this because they haven't officially been eliminated from the finals.
But I would imagine key defenders is where they need it,
and that's been long, that's long been the.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
What's realistic for the Bulldogs in the key defensive space,
is seven May a realistic option for them?

Speaker 4 (50:55):
I think so. I think so. I mean they're in
the winner to win now, and I still think he's
a very serviceable defender. He's not the absolute player that
he was. But in terms of the market of players
who would want to leave or are looking likely to
leave their club or maybe be let go, they can
either go one or two routes. They can go for
Jayden Laverde type operators who had interesting going last year.

(51:15):
I think he's been delisted in my right and saying that,
is he going around again?

Speaker 2 (51:18):
I believe so.

Speaker 4 (51:19):
Maybe not yet, but it has been off a contract
for next year. So you could sort of do the
Sydney method that I alluded to before and maybe pick
these more fringe players from other clubs, or you can
go all on your stars.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Jacksonvill Varney as well.

Speaker 4 (51:30):
They're in for him.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
They're trying really hard, even though it seems like he's
going to pick Colleywood more.

Speaker 4 (51:33):
Like Yes, but he's a really good player and he's
he has more upside than what May does in terms
of he can do it for you for six years.
Number one he's not.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
I mean both they need a number one and number three.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
Well, they also need general defending help. They did just
defensive help more broadly over the entire system. And keep
in mind that what Luke Beverage has done really well
with positional moves. It's always moving guys out of defense
into the midfield or forward, and it works because they
are really talented play.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
And it worked for but only for one season exactly.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
And so now Frasier and Richard's having great years but
in the midfield and they're not helping down back as
much as they might have in previous seasons.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
It always hurts, that is, look at the bottom ten.
I'm going to make an editorial call here and skip
Fair or Fast. Unfortunately Fair or Fast it wasn't as
strong this week.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
But we might open up the mail bag on the
Fox Footy podcast it's time to open up the mailbag.
Have a question for the panel. Tweet us every Monday
morning at Fox Footy.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
Yes, thank you to everyone who has written in responding
on Twitter to our request of fourth questions, like Jason
X has asking.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
And we're going to talk about the finals.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
Of course, we'll talk more about it next week because
we will have a podcast before at the final. Start
our Adelaide better off losing to Collingwood in week one.
Then they will not have the disadvantage of having a
second week off, which clearly appears to be detrimental, and
they're good enough to beat Brisbane and Geelong who will
have had a second week off in a premium and
then if they get to the Grand Final they can
have ranking back. So an argument that's a good thing

(53:00):
for them to lose that game.

Speaker 4 (53:01):
I don't think so. I think they need to play
a few games in finals as possible, and having both
of them in a qualifying final and a prelim final
goes without saying that'll be their best road because I
think they can beach whoever comes their way in a
qualifying as we know as Collingwood or a Prisbonal or
Geelong in the prelim week. I mean, ISAAC ranking doesn't
matter unless you go into a Grand final losing your
first game. And I don't like the matchup base against

(53:26):
it because they have the toughest side of the drawer.
They're likely going to have one of Geelong SORRYJBS or Hawthorne,
both who play Adelaid Loveral relatively well, and Hawthorne will
be as hot, yeah, white hot. I think in a
semi final they'll be better from their lost last year
against Paul in the same fixture.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
I just I don't think he's in the right heads
I don't know if he's in the right heads space
to play again this year at the moment, just what
I get. I was a little bit distracted during that
because the news has dropped that Harley Reid has officially
re signed with West Coast. There we go, So any
any talk earlier in the podcast about Harley Reid can
now be from an Essen perspective or Hawthorne. He has
signed a two year DAR until the end of twenty

(54:01):
twenty eight, so I reckon it's a bit the nasdy
SI like yes very much as short term big dollars.
We'll go back to his home.

Speaker 3 (54:07):
State at the end of it, you speak, well, I
think that's the You don't sign a short term deal
because you're committing your future of the club.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Do you.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
That's right until the end of twenty twenty eight. So
he's locked into at the West Coast for the next
three years, right because he was already contracted for next year.
So it's slightly different. But anyway, let's tell you what
we've got to go right about that, So let's wrap
up the show. Let's wrap up the show. Just a
quick tip. Who wins Gold Coast or Essendon.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
Margin ben So five goals is roughly what it needs
to win by. Assuming Essendon scores seventy points, Gold Coast
would need to score one hundred. If Estenon scores less,
they need to win by less.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
So surely surely they get there.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
But keep in mind Essendon got within two goals of
Sydney at the Sega a few weeks ago.

Speaker 4 (54:47):
This would be the all time cockup from Gold Coast.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
If they don't win this and they do love a
late season cockup, yep, yep. They made mistakes in the past.
God help them. If it happens again, Dimmer won't be well.
If you want to see a cock up. You might
be able to see it on Wednesday night and now
Erson takes on the Gold Coast Suns. After that we'll
know the finals fixture, which of course we'll have all
the coverage of on Foxfooty dot com dot au.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Thanks for listening to the Fox Footy podcast. Like what
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