Fox Footy Podcast: Mega Week 1 finals preview

Max Laughton, Ben Waterworth and Will Faulkner preview week 1 of the 2025 AFL finals on the Fox Footy Podcast, with a breakdown of the pre-finals Power Rankings and who's best-placed to win the flag, plus Fair or Farce, the Mailbag, Sheeds' Wisdom and much more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The big footy issues from every angle, dissected by a
team that follows the game closer than anyone else wherever
you are around the planet. This is your ultimate guide
to the AFL. This is the Fox Footy Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
It is the most glorious time of the year for
footy fans, and it looks particularly glorious in twenty twenty five.
For you could mount a case for why all eight
finalists can and can't win the flag this season, So
which teams are best and worst placed heading into September
will have a Finals power ranking special. But of course,
the hype around Silly season is already reasonably large, and

(00:39):
there's a chance this one could be the silliest in
several years, with many big names now very much on
the trade radar. We'll discuss all that, plus dive into
the big footy topics in phar or fast the mailbag
Here the latest historical wisdom from Kevin Sheedy and of
course have the expert tips for you on the Fox
Footy Podcast. Ben Waterworth with you as is the commissioner.

(01:00):
Fresh off another blockbus the NFL Fantasy Draft Night, Max Lawton, Hello, MAXI.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Benef for two fantasy drafts in twenty four hours. I've
just got Christian McCaffrey and random running back sleepers running
for mate.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Walked out of last night's NFL draft glass half empty.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
I would say, no, you know, not thrilled with my work,
but you know it's about player development as well as
the draft. Yes, and I'll just be offering a se
Kilda style contract to everyone I see on the wave
a whif like.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Looking forward to and sure you'll keep us all abreast
on the Fox Footy podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Everyone cares about everyone else's fantasy teams. It's everyone's favorite.
It's like talking about dreams you had.

Speaker 4 (01:33):
It's great.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
It's like talking about when non runners go into a
running conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
Was such a good time.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Also joining us on the verge of his most favorite
time of the year, the return of the Sheffield Chield
and One Day Cup series. Will Forkner, Hello.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
Fork, Hello Ben, Hello Max. It's yeah, I guess okayre's
that time of year weeks away. Yes, yes, it's Christmas.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
That's what they state versus state, mate versus mate. That's
what they say right about the Sheffield Shield.

Speaker 4 (01:58):
That is what they say.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
That's sometimes definitely not origin.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Who's going to win the one Day Cup.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
This year, I will call something else.

Speaker 4 (02:07):
Named after someone the marsh one day.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
It could be the Marsh was the Marshaffield is bad
that I don't know this.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
I'm not giving them trophy, of course, Yes, that's right.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
I like great.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Victoria has some good use. I reckon that'll be good.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Okay, we'll keep an eye on that, but we're I
think it's more specifically looking at the AFL right now, Max,
And because it is finals time and you've put together
for Fox Sports dot com dot a U the finals
power rankings, right, how difficult was this?

Speaker 3 (02:33):
A well? I mean I basically just looked at the ladder. Yeah, no,
that's not true. No, you don't do that the powers, No, exactly, No,
I disrespect the ladder. I don't believe in the ladder.
So last year. I want to throw it back to
twenty twenty four, an interesting time as we headed into
the finals and we had the Premiership window and on
the couch proclaiming that three teams outside the top four

(02:54):
were the most likely to win it. One of them did,
and I believe Brisbane were at least top two in
my ranking, my final's power rankings.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
That worked out.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
I think I had Hawthorne first at some point, which
didn't quite work out, but they were pretty good.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
They go close.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah, you know, we're all right. So I've got a
more standard top two this year and they're both in
the same game.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Well in general that the top four is the top
four teams are in the top four and the bottom
four teams in the bottom four, except this there's a
bit of a different war.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
So I think in such an even year it means
more to have these structural advantages of the final bracket.
So Collingwood is slightly untrustworthy at the moment, and as
we'll talk about, I think they have an unfavorable draw
if things go against them, but you still have to
have them top four because they could very certainly beat
Adelaide this week and then home Prelium. You know, they're
so close to a flag. So Gelong and Brisbane are

(03:47):
my top two and I've lent Geelong just as much
as it hates my self hating Cats fan heart to
talk up the Cats, because Geelong is just fitter than Brisbane.
Right now. Those teams were going in completely even with
their injury lists. I think I would be leaning Brisbane
and I think I'd have the most my premiership favorite.
I think they're the most trustworthy team, done it the

(04:08):
most recently, in a better position than last year and
all of that. But you've still got at least four
best twenty three members out for the lines. You've got
Barry and Neil coming back, and you know, you still
it's still their first game back. They're going to be fine,
but you never know whereas the Cats don't have an
injury list. They just have Toby Conway injured Toby, that's it.
So they are so primed for a run. We talked

(04:30):
about that easy run into the finals. It allowed them
to manage players, but they also just haven't had injuries
really to deal with. So they are so perfectly set
up that I think there's a very good chance that
this qualifying final is the Grand Final in three weeks time,
and the winner will have a huge chance of making
it to the decider.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
So I was counting up the number of wins in
a row Geelong had prior to their twenty twenty two
finals campaigns. They had thirteen wins in a row into
that they were the one, number one and two seeds
with Sydney, and I think there were some question marks
around the soft draw leading into that game into that
final series they played.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
So they played five bottom ten teams and the Bulldogs
have finished eighth.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
That's right, yeah, include so they had West Coast that
get in your park. They had Gold Coaster caras is.
Working backwards from round twenty three, Sint Kilda weren't in
contention that you mentioned the Bulldogs. They played Port Adelaide
at Adelaide over which was probably their big test there.
Carlton sort of weren't too in the mix either, so
they had a soft draw up until that and then
they had basically their grand final against Collingwood in that

(05:30):
qualifying final.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
It seems to happen when they win a flag they
need to have a grand final against Collingwood no matter
which week of finals it falls.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
In two thousand and seven prelims well and then Brisbane
and City they thumped them in those two finals. But
then Chris Fagan last year after Brisbane defeated Gelong in
that epic prelim, talked about the potential soft draw that
Geelong had last year and potentially working against them there
that he mentioned that the West Coast game that they
had in the final home now around.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
I think it hurts you more in a prelim if
you have a soft draw break win break right, that's
where it could really mount. But otherwise Geelong just looks
so trustworthy right now. Geelong and Brisbane the most experienced
and trustworthy teams in it, I suppose, but Geelong has
done an incredible job of reinventing themselves.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Do you think that the qualifying final between Geelong and
Brisbane could end up being the Grand Final as well?

Speaker 4 (06:16):
For yes, I think that will be the Grand Final.
I hate to be max Ezecho, but I don't really
have anything that can counter that. I agree that Brisbane,
probably at the full health, would be the team to beat,
but Geelong just haven't had any injuries and they've got
so many guys who are prying for I think the
experience as well. Brisban have had a long They've been
at the top for a long time and had a
lot of finals experience, but Geelong has had just as much,
if not more, and they've got a coach who's probably

(06:37):
done it for longer and has that extra flag behind
his back. So yeah, I wish I could.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
So it's not a favorable matchup based in the last
two years for the Cats, they have lost I think
three in a row at least to Brisbane. Yep. But
then you keep in mind that the prelim last year
four goals up, Max Holmes gets hurt. Yes, that does
influence that result quite a bit, I imagine, and he's only
become better this year. And the Cats are just better
this yay. So even if Brisbane, it's hard for them

(07:03):
to be better than they were last Final series because
they were incredible in the last Final series and they
had to be to win it from fifth. So I
think there's a chance that a team makes a prelim
and maybe if your squint makes a Grand Final from
the bottom half of the eighth this year, but it's
going to be difficult because the top four are pretty good.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Any alarm bells though, the fact that the Lions overall
ranked number twelve in the core four stats compiled by
Champion Data, which is with the footy without the footy points,
some clearance and post clearance contested possession.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
The numbers don't love Brisbane this year, so their percentage
says a lot. In fact, they've got what sixteen and
a half wins with a percentage in the one hundred
and teens is not overly convincing. They're down there with
the Giants and Fremantle in terms of lowest percentages, so
that means something like Brisbane's lows have been lower, but
I think that can be excused by a couple of things.

(07:53):
Is the hardest draw I've ever seen, so they're double ups,
the hardest set of double ups I've ever seen. I
looked back at the fixture difficult. It was mostly accurate,
except Gelong's draw, which was supposed to be easy, ended
up being like the second easiest in the comp and
Brisbane's was the hardest set of double ups I've ever seen,
so they had to overcome that. They had to overcome
more injuries as well. So they've just had a much
harder run, and that means getting to this position where

(08:15):
they are in a very winnable qualifying final is all
the more impressive and why I believe in them despite
those numbers.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
I am surprised that Collingwood is snuck into the top
four in your power inankings.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
I feel like I trust Collingwood more than a lot
of people do right now. I understand that they lost
five or six, but you look at those actual games,
and two of them weren't great against Brisbane and Hawthorne.
Hawthorne one had the weird Jeremy House staff at the start,
which influenced it clearly. The Brisbane game, Brisbane were just better,
but then they had three games decided by a kick effectively.
So they're a very strong team over the course of

(08:46):
the season that had some bad luck in some close
games which slipped them into fourth. In any other season,
they would not be fourth. They would be in an
MCG qualifying final, either at home or against the Cats,
so they'd be in a much better position. And if
they can just get their defense in order enough to
where it was, which was the best in the comp
they are still absolutely a threat. And even in the
position they are right now, they almost beat Adelaide and

(09:06):
probably should have should have a few weeks ago. So
I mean, they absolutely can beat the Crows on Thursday night,
can't they?

Speaker 4 (09:12):
Yeah? No, absolutely. I think the Crows will take a
lot of confidence out of the fact that they finally
broke that ten year ducks or nine year ducks that
they had. But yeah, I mean Collinwood, Jeremy how is
just such a big out for them. I think if
there was ever a Ford line, you didn't want to
go in to a game with one less key defender
like out it's against Adelaide away from home as well.

(09:34):
But yeah, I mean they just should have won. Like
I think it was seventy one to thirty six inside fifties,
I mean.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
One of the biggest inside fifty differentials to lose a
game in history.

Speaker 4 (09:43):
If not, it was either first of the second most
on record. So yeah, I certainly wouldn't discount Collingwood. And
as said, they've been there before, which the Crows haven't
for so long, so I think that that has a
huge saying that.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
I think the difficulty for both Adelaide and Collinwood to
an extent, so adelaid top of the table, did everything
they could, did have an easier draw because of finishing
fifteenth last year. And then you take into account that
teams that break through like this don't win the flag
in their breakthrough year. I mean, you had Collingwood in
twenty eighteen went from thirteenth to the Grand Final and
we're very very close to winning it. Richmond in twenty

(10:17):
seventeen came from thirteenth as well, but they'd had some
finals experience. Teams without finals experience within the last four
years do not win a flag in the AFL ERA.
It just doesn't happen. So the Crows just feel to me,
it's a vibes thing more than anything. But they feel
like a prelim loser, whether that's beating Collingwood and losing
a home prelim to Geelong or Brisbane in like sort
of agonizing style that builds them up for next year,

(10:40):
or just they get a bad drawer and they go
into the qualifying final and the pre lim away in
two weeks time, and then they lose because both them
and collinwod are on the harder side of.

Speaker 4 (10:48):
The draw, much harder.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Because you lose, you're getting Hawthorne AJWS, much scarier proposition
to me than getting Freer or Gold Coast in.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
That and in your power rankings you've got Hawthorne fifth
finished the home to Noway season in eighth and the
Giants sixth, and then the Dockers and the Suns after that.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
So that game to me, Hawks Giants is a coin flip.
I'm gonna lean Hawks just because I think that the
best eighth ever, certainly on their record and their percentage
to the most, eighth never does anything well.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
They are they're in top four contention in a couple
of weeks.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
They literally would be in the top four if they've
beaten Brisbane and they were closish, although the margin flattered
them a little bit. So they had a really good
run of form the last six weeks, almost beating Adelaide,
almost beating Brisbane both away. They had a lot of
close losses on the road as well against contenders, so
they were so close to being in a really winnable position.
And I think if they get past the Giants, which

(11:37):
obviously isn't easy, but they did beat them and they
played down in Tazzi, I mean four or five months ago, Yes,
you almost don't take it into account. If they get
Collingwood in a semi final. We saw what Hawks Collingwood
looks like at the MCGA a few weeks back. Hawthorne
will go into that game full of confidence that they
can make a prelim. And then if they get Geelong
in a prelim, I mean that would be mouthwatering for
the Neutrals and terrifying for all fans of the Hawks

(11:59):
and Cats. I think anyone I've spoken to about that
who has a of the Hawthorne or Gelong persuasion, hates
the idea.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
And the fact that if it's an Adelaide Hawthorne semifinal
as well, it comes to fruition Hawthorne aaga. We should
have won that game a few weeks.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
Ago exactly, and we'll be back in a semi final
Adelaide Oval. They know that environment incredibly well. They just
copped it last year, that's right, So I could if
any of these teams can make a prelimits the Hawks
Giants winner from the bottom half of the eight. The
Giants have the potential to be, on their day, be
the best team in any game they played this final series.
It's just that they have not shown the consistency to
do it four times in a row all season. It's

(12:35):
why the percentage isn't great. It's why they're only fifth.
So it's why I can't trust them completely. Though they
have improved on their midfield stocks, their midfield performance, which
was their real floor in the first half.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Of the year.

Speaker 4 (12:48):
Is there a world been where we see one of
Fremantle gold Coasts progressed past the second week of the finals.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
So the winner would take on the loser of Geelong
and Brisbane. Yes, away from home.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
The only one I could see is gold Coast beating Brisbane.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
Yes, if we get.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
A pineapple grapple in the semifinals.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, okay, and they fund them a few a few
weeks ago. Absolutely, But traditionally Brisbane have had the wood
over the Suns. That's yeah, that's the only circumstance. But
even though I think that's a stretch as well, I
think Brisbane are a much more hardened team. Yeah, we
did the finals pressure gage through Jack Joevenowski from the
Fox Sports website, and I think gold Coast is a
clear eighth. But the fact that they're there. They had

(13:30):
to get into the finals. But I don't think there's
a massive expectation for them to go over and beat
Fremantle now. But if Freemantle lose, though, I think there's
a sense that they might have underachieved this season. I
know there was a big f for them just to
get into the finals though.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah, so it's always going to feel harsh whatever the
verdict comes down on Fremantle is because either we're talking
down their impressive if flowed home and away season, Like
I'm going to keep talking about the comparison to Collingword
twenty twenty two. Win a bunch of close games, win
sixteen games. We did the same thing in twenty two,
but just made them to the top four because the
ladder was different that year. So Freer gets a chance

(14:05):
at a home final, a very winnable home final, of course,
and you know they won nine a few years ago
when they beat the Bulldogs. They came back from what
five goals down the motion at home, so they can
as long as they win that. I think you're you're
happy as a dock is Fann because you're going to
a semi final on the road and thinking no one
believes in us. We can buy into that, all that
doubt and maybe that can inspire us to something. But

(14:25):
I just the percentage, all of those factors for the Dockers,
there's just not enough convincing me that they are one
of the best four teams and therefore going to make
a prelim. Having said that, the Collingwood twenty twenty two
thing that I have to mention is that they got
better once the final started. They played their best two
games in losses against a long and Sydney.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
I think in the middle. They also beat the free Man.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
They did very comfortably, so that wasn't a problem at all.
So that's the difference with I'd count out what Freemantle
has done over the course of the season in terms of,
you know, sixteen wins, but it's not as impressive as
that sounds. But they can absolutely get better because they're
still young, still in proving they're going to be attended
to again next year. They just need a bit of
a base to build off of going into twenty twenty six.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
So on that pressure gauge, Collingwood was number one. That's
a fair statement.

Speaker 4 (15:09):
I think it's fair as I was saying that Jack
when he was doing this article. My take on it
is their list is built beyond the now like it
is this year and essentially bust. And it feels like
we've said that the last couple of years with Collingwood,
but every year that keeps going, it just gets closer
and closer to the end. So I think their past
mark is to win a premiership and that sounds very harsh,

(15:30):
but Penury and side Bottom just aren't going to be
the players are this year. Next year They've got a
couple of guys out of contract. In my checking Elliott,
they're no certainty to be around next year and they've
played pretty key roles, particularly Elliott this season. And then
you've got a bunch of guys who are out of
contract like Tom Mitchell and Mason Cox and why they
haven't had massive impacts on this season for the Piers,
it's the depth that they lose and they haven't had

(15:52):
a whole lot of youth come through and played consistent
football this year or in the last couple of years.
So if we're looking, I guess broadly speaking, is a pass.
So it's a Premiership for Collingwood as their past market, it's.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
The oldest team in footy history before this year's Collingwood
was Geelong the twenty twenty two Grand Final. Yep, they
missed the finals the next year despite being dominant in
twenty two, and.

Speaker 4 (16:13):
They had to do some pretty fair recruiting after that
to get back to without.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
Now completely reshape their midfield bringing Bailey Smith turned into
being even better than anyone thought. So yes, you can
do it. And Collingwood's going to be a place where
players want to go and play, so they can easily
improve without having to nail a bunch of draft picks,
but the lack of completely successful drafting is going to
hurt them the next couple of years in terms of depth.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Well, it's probably a good segue into the other side
of the equation, for there are ten teams now who
are fully in off season mode and it's been a
very newsy past seven to eight days in the player
movement space and fork the big one now is Charlie Kurno.
It feels like, and Tommy Morris said this on Seen
this morning, it feels like the footy world is underestimated

(16:55):
how desperate Charlie Cerno is to get out of Carlton.
Initially Tom broke the story about the potential openness to
join Gold Coast, but now he's met with Dean Cox,
according to Mitch Cleary as that Swan's connection seems to
grow stronger, and then we obviously know the Geelong link
as well. Marc Voss very good in his interview on
SCN yesterday. But yeah, this feels like it's going to

(17:18):
be the big domino so far of this trade period.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
I think Voss spoke really well from what I heard
on SCN yesterday. I think he took the perfect place
to come from for someone like Charlie and the idea
of leaving the club. Having said that, Tom reported this
story too, I'm gonna say two months ago and there's
been noise bubbling away since then. Caroline Wilson reported on
Channel seven last night that he was willing to take
a pay cut to move to a club, which I

(17:41):
then again speaks to a new level as to how
much he might want to get out. I think maybe
even even when as far as saying he just doesn't
get on with Mirchael Watte.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yes, she was pretty blunt without reporting.

Speaker 4 (17:50):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's a hard place to come
back from and I think it's you know again, it's
great that Voss came out and said what he said,
and I think he did the right thing as a coach.
But you know how, they have all the power. If
Charlie wants to move, has to be one hell of
a trade and at that point Carlton probably win. They
still have Mackay up Ford, who's a common medallist, played
some very good football when he came back at the

(18:11):
back end of the season. You keep your other guys
like Walsh and you've got Jago Smith coming into the
realm next year after his ACL injury. So I don't
think it's all doom and gloom. But Carlton have the
power to make this a trade that if Charlie leaves,
they get a hell of a hell of a lot
back for him. And it's going to be a contendent's
in the now who's going to get him? Geelong Sydney

(18:31):
I think would probably still like to think they're in
the now in Gold Coast, So will they will pay
overs for him opposed to a lesser club who might
still be building for the next few years and wouldn't
be willing to give up that much capital for him.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Thing is, though, Max, it's very hard if it is Sydney,
It's very hard to think of the players that would
come back really sickly to Carlton. It feels like this
is going to be a dare I say it, mega trade,
multiple clubs trade.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
Radio is going to come up with twelve different ideas
every day. This feels like Petrarca last year, right. This
feels like if it could happen, it would, but it can't.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Is it a bit more?

Speaker 3 (19:05):
Is it a bit more that I've probably more likely
to happen than that was because of the contract size
and because of not really with Carlton. They're in a
similar position to Melbourne, where they were on the bubble
of are we going to contend next year or not?

Speaker 2 (19:18):
I did the sense I get just from the reporting
last night. If you compare it to Christian Petrarca, who
clearly wanted to get out of Melbourne, it didn't feel
like Melbourne was ready to give up on Petrarca. But now,
just in recent days, it feels like, yeah, if the
deal's right for Carlton, they might entertain it.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
Despite the fact that Michael Voss said on radio specifically
we will not trade.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yes, yes, but here's the.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
Thing that's a bargeting position.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
Right, anytime you hear any club say anything, keep in
mind they are posturing from what is happening behind the scenes,
because we never know the full story with what they're
saying publicly. So he would say that, and maybe Michael
Voss truly believes that because he thinks that if they
trade Kerono, he's not going to be there in twenty
twenty seven because he wants to try and be contending
next year. But it's not in the end his decision

(20:02):
to make. It's the list management teams to make, is
it not?

Speaker 4 (20:05):
And there are only one or two players from Sydney
that you say yes too if you're Carlton, is it
Gordon Heney Warner full stop?

Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (20:12):
Probably, which I don't think they're all locked in long
term Warner short term? Sorry, yes, end of twenty twenty seven.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
I think that doesn't make sense for Carlton because then
he's going to try and go back to w AA
at the end of that day anyway, which suspect.

Speaker 4 (20:25):
Gordon's one that's been flowing around the most and Sydney
seems very hard and fast on keeping him.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
So potentially Charlie Kerner out. We know tom Da Coney
has requested to go to Saint Kilda. Jack Sylvanney also
wants out. Carlton has essentially told Elijah Hollins to assess
your options as well. It feels like a very busy
few months coming up for the Baggers.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
Yeah, very busy next months for nick Cos and their
list manager. I mean look to Cone's gone, Sylvanni's gone.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Where too is for Sylvanney.

Speaker 4 (20:54):
I've been There's been a lot of noise around Saint Kilda.
There's been going around for a couple of weeks and
that's sort of come to fruition the last seven days.
They're willing to pay him a fair bit on a
good lick for five years. I think the dogs in
Collingwood initially felt like they're in a good position because
they were first at the table. But there's an obvious
alignment between Jack's father, Steven, being the list matter at

(21:15):
Saint Kilda. And that's not to say that he's only
being off of this contract because his dad works there
and I believe he's removed from that process. But yeah,
there's a fair bit of confidence at Saint Kilda that
they can get him. Elijah Hollins, I'm not too sure
that's only come out very recently, but yeah, Calm seems
to be quite keen in none certain terms to have
him explored omptions and maybe not be icon Park next year.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
This could work out great for them, couldn't it. If
Sylvannie's getting five years around eight hundred.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Could be a good compo.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
That sounds like for first round pick compo to me,
or at least close. He's twenty eight in December, so
you can question whether Saint Kila should be paying a
thirty two to thirty three year old Jack Sylvanne a
hundred grand in a few years. But that's for them
to decide. I think for Carlton, you're getting at least
one first round pick in maybe two, So that's very,
very helpful in terms of rebuilding on the run, in
terms of matching bids in next couple of years, if

(22:03):
they don't get screwed by the AFL changing the bitting
system on them, which I don't know if we're talking
about that in fair or.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Fast we're not.

Speaker 3 (22:08):
But it's crazy to me that we have introduced this
new points system, we haven't even used it once, and
they're talking about scrapping it. All right, can we try
it for a couple of years first. We know there
are problems, but let's just see if this works. Come
on guys like we don't need to panic.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
So I was going to say it was from a
sein Kilda perspective to coning Sylvanney. I think he might
have talked about this last week a little bit.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
But Flanders Flanders, ned Flanders has been thrown to.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Ned Flanders, Liam Ryan as well, and it sounds like
they've up their offer to try and keep Marcus Winderhager
after retaining the siwangon a miller.

Speaker 4 (22:39):
Yes, I think that was two to four. I think
Tom may have reported that that's to help combat a
five year deal from North Melbourne, interest from GWS and
the D's as well. Essen. Then we're in there. But
I min understanding is that Winhager put that aside. I
think he's I don't think he's going to be in
Essendon next year. But yeah, I mean I've said this before.
Win Hagar really wants to stay at Saan Kuilda. It's

(22:59):
just it was a very much about them coming to
the table and I think that's going to happen, and
it does happen behind closed doors when you offer so
much money to players at rival clubs. I think the
people who have been loyal to the club in the
first few years of their career even longer than that,
just want to feel like the same amount of love
to players that have been loyal and have gone have
have had to go through a less than ideal drought

(23:19):
the last four or five years since their career started,
or even longer. They just want to look at the
ice cream as well. So here he'll be at san
Kulta if they come to the table and he's happy
with that deal.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Nice TPP movement that they've done here, MAXI. They seem
like they've signed it nicely.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yes, well this is the I don't know exactly how
it works, but you know, we know you can bank
a bit of cap space. So whether it's an extra
five percent getting them over the top, whether they can
frontload and backload deals look like it is weird that
they seem to be going for everyone, but that's what
you have to do. And them being so aggressive, it's
an admirable stance for a team that clearly needs to

(23:55):
add talent like that.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
Yeah, they can say that they're trying and for years
it's been about how to have them now to get
a big fish, and all of a sudden then that
is casting three four, five different people and they just
can go all in. Yeah, you can't say that not
being aggressive and try to have a crack.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
It's risky. It's risky. If you're paying time to Conning
one point seven million, he's not the best ruck in
the comp that's overpaying, you know, if you're paying all
of these guys, like, at some point you just got
to give someone some money because you've got to use
the cap space otherwise it's a waste. But that's the
risk you take. And if they end up topping out
at a what sixth or seventh best team in the camp,
then they're back where they were a few years aga.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
That's true. Yes, it's certainly risky from a financial perspective.
I think from a draft trade capital it feels like
this is the year to do it. In a slim draft.
They've attacked the draft pretty hard despite not having really
early picks. They've attacked the draft pretty hard in the
last two to three years and got some good ones
with wangon a Miller. Obviously, hopefully it clicks for Philippo.
We saw the potential of Darcy Wilson in that last

(24:51):
game against the Giants. Yeah, Taru was really impressive that
last season, and Travali hopefully comes on next year. So
I think I think it's the year to do it.
But yeah, financially, well could it is a bit of
a risk. But are you concerned about essenon what's going
on there?

Speaker 3 (25:07):
I mean just generally for about twenty years, yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
But specifically now when we know Sam as Will has
been extensively reporting on Sam Draper likely to leave Brisbane
looks like the destination. Then emerges that Jordan Ridley wants out, disillusioned,
disenfranchised after how his body has been handled by the
Strength and Conditioning department, which we know is going to
have a fresh look next year. And then the stuff

(25:30):
around Zach Merritt just doesn't go away. Merit, Ridley and
Draper not only crucial on field, but it feels like
off the field and culturally really important to that mix.
So take those three guys out, it's like, are we
starting the Cup again?

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yeah, So that's the problem, right, These are the guys
that you need to build around so that when you
actually get the young kids who are talented in and
they have experience to learn from. So it's a cultural
problem where these guys have been through the hard times
and if they don't see easier times coming up very soon,
they're like, Okay, well, I've my clock's running out, I've
got to win some games. Zach MAT's played two fifty

(26:05):
games now he needs he wants to win a final
at some point. Fair enough, he deserves. He's one of
the most underrated plays in the combent has been for
a while. So Jordan Ridley his body hasn't been right,
but we know how good he is one when he plays,
and if he can drink the miracle water that they
have up in Brisbane, maybe that would help him.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
He didn't think the Brisbane River would be.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
The story bridge is very important for curing people. My
understand me.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Draper's obviously on his way out. Sounds like forking you've
been reporting Brisbane, yes, like.

Speaker 4 (26:35):
Yeah, mostly, very much likely Brisbane. I think the reading
between the lines. I think raleio O'Brian signing that contract
extension with Adelaide having one foot out the door or sorry,
one foot out of going to Adelaide, and from what
Brian sent it into a month or two ago, that
had never discussed Draper coming to the club when he
was in negotiation. So I'd imagine that's probably dealing in

(26:56):
a little bit of bad faith to then go and
get Draper.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
But royand Marshall TDK A little bit, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
A little bit. I guess the difference was probably Marshall's
was contracted this entire time. Sure, you know, Brian could
argue that he signed under the impression that he'd be
the sole ruck, but yeah, I mean we were saying
this last night, but I think it is genuinely so
destroying for Essenon fans and players who've been at the
club for a while to see I mean not just one,
but potentially three of those guys leave the club and

(27:23):
there's not a whole lot of experience left on the list.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
We realistically think Ridley and Merit are leaving.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
I don't Merit, definitely not Gosh, I don't think a
couple of It speaks more to the fact that the
fact that they want to and that it's gotten out.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
There's two parts to that, because in any bad team,
you're going to have good players who want to play
for another good team.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
I was about to say a running there if Merit left,
but I won't Ridley, I can.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
Maybe maybe see Tom's pretty hot on that, like maybe yeah, yeah, maybe.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
But it's interesting when you get the one report comes
out it's pretty strong, and then multiple reports another out
let's immediately shut it down, like you know which side
it's coming from. When they happen, yess a very interesting position.

Speaker 4 (28:00):
Yeah, And to add to that, Essenon came out yesterday
and said, well, Draper hasn't made his decision, despite reports
from Jack Clark saying that he had he hasn't formally
informed him that he wants to leave, So I guess
they're hanging out hope and that's all they can do.
But yeah, not great signs.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
I think the one part of Draper I feel like
that's gone under discussed. Why is Brisbane getting Draper? Why
do they need to pay a ruckman good money when
they've got a pretty tight salary cap and a lot
of really good plays.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Well they need a ruckman, yeah do they? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (28:28):
They just want to flag with. They just want to
flag with Darcy Fort. I feel like if you are
not getting a ruckman who is fantastic, it's something other
than just rucking. You're fine with league average or below.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
I just think they lacking depth though in the rock
department at the moment.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
Sure, but I don't think paying what eight hundred grounds
a year is the solution to that. That feels like
it's it's above league average for a pretty good player
Sam Draper, but he's never going to be like an
All Australian contender. I wouldn't affoord.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
So yeah, and then it sounds that they're going to
be paying Oscar Allen quite significantly and handsome as well.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
That's very interesting. Take that negatively if you like use
of resources for a premiership list.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
So Oscar, Allen and Draper likely to come in, they
will get Dan Annibal who is a top five draft
d this year and then yeah, and Ridley has been
linked to them.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
Okay, So is this why they can do it? Because
they're getting an infinite supply of the first round father
sons and academy kids.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
They've banked them in the past few years, haven't.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
That's That's okay, I've just answered my own question. That's
why the.

Speaker 4 (29:27):
Draft one thing, I will say, Darcy fort thirty two
years of age, Macna only thirty one, with what has
been reported chronic back injuries or not doubting.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
That they need a ruckman at some point. It's the
use of salary cap space on a ruckman when I
feel like very few clubs who pay a ruckman a
lot of money have found success with it.

Speaker 4 (29:45):
Eight hundred thousand dollars is a hell of a wage.
I don't know if I'm looking at it. I'm starting
to look at that as perhaps a level below just
with the way that salary caps in now being paid.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
The leage average is going to be six hundred grand
like next year.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
Yeah, so he said, but you'd rather someone who's a
Mark Blitzervs who just does his job Stanley, who have
been you know, they've done the work at Geelong, but
they're not a standout ruckman.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
I there have been so many cases of teams getting
guys who were the second ruckman at there to Lloyd
Meek Jared Witz before that, guys who were just thereabout
in the rotation of a team and then end up
being fantastic first choice ruckman for the next five ten years.

Speaker 4 (30:18):
So Ned Reaves from Hawthorne reports him wanting to leave
Hawthorne is he's someone that you would think.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
I would rather spend three hundred three fifty grand on
a ruckman like that that eight hundred grand on a
Sam Dreper just in a vacuum.

Speaker 4 (30:29):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
But you've got to do with what's available to you.
And if they have a lot of cap space because
of all these young kids coming in and winning Normsmith medals,
then fair play to them.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Some people would think, why the heck are you talking
about all this stuff in the middle of finals week?

Speaker 3 (30:42):
Because it's fun, not right.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
It's fun and a lot of other people want to
hear about it as well. They also want to hear
about our thoughts in this segment and.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
Now on the Fox Footy podcast, another strong edition of
Australia's favorite segment, Fair or Fast.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Just a little addition mini edition here of Fair or
Fast Fork starting with you. The Melbourne coaching gig is
Nathan Buckley's if he wants it fair or fuss Fair.

Speaker 4 (31:07):
Melbourne's been pretty adamant they're not running the process for
a one horse race and that they are genuinely considering
all five ken that it's on a level playing field, but.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
A big coaching panel they've assembled it is.

Speaker 4 (31:19):
But he's just a clear standout. I mean he's the
only one that's coached at a different AFL club and
for a long period of time as well. I think
it's probably fair his to lose. But he was also
speaking on the couch last night and wasn't absolutely one
hundred percent convinced that he's like, absolutely running the race.
He's obviously gotten to this point in the interview, which
tells you something that he's interested, but he didn't sound

(31:41):
like he was absolutely gunning for the position either, And
I think that's been his position for the last few weeks.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Do you think if Nathan takes the Melbourne job it's
part of that reason would be just the the AFL
will make sure Tasmania happens, right, but just the constant
uncertainty around Tazzy might have an influence in Buckley taking
the melt.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
May be very soft, but I think it would be
more the fact that he'll be taking a job where
he gets to stay and live in Melbourney. It's just
easier for him and his life and it just makes sense.
I think he's understandably going I have the leverage here.
I can make sure this is a prime position where
I'm going to get to run the club as much
as I want to. So he can take that into
their negotiations and into their conversations, so I think that's

(32:21):
a fair play to him. I think Melbourne would be
just fine picking an assistant coach who's pretty highly rated too,
but they need to know where they want their list
to be over the next two three years before they
make that decision.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Brendan Lade consistently gets mentioned of those assistant coaches in
the mix. Brendan Laid from the Dogs right Now constantly
gets linked. Max Bailey Smith's Live All Australian Not interview
is one of the bravest we've seen in recent years.
Fear or fast, very fair.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
That was fantastic from him. The willingness to sort of
off the cuff just drop the fact that he spent
a month in a psych ward yes late last year
is It's a fantastic admission and it's the sort of
thing that actually does help with the problem of mental
health and men's mental health in particular, more than any
game acknowledging awareness ever. Could you know, people I think

(33:09):
want the AHL to do more in that space, and
that's fair enough. There's a lot of causes that are
important to people and that would be certainly something to
try and help with. But Bailey Smith coming out and
being a very public figure and saying that, being that honest,
everyone who sees that, who has any sort of issues
or can relate to it at all, would be influenced
by that, and fair play to him, I think yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
I think the industry, particularly the media industry, was probably
quite surprised that he did it because he naturally does
not do a lot of media. You won't see him
do a MIDWEK press conference, the only time you probably
really seeing his postmatch interviews when there's no media manager
around Moons and Dicko goes straight to Bailey Smith for
an interview.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
And they're not going to be super tough on him in.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
That No they're not. But now he doesn't do the
standar Midwek presses, he doesn't do print one on one interviews.
So for that to happen in that environment was was
particularly and pleasantly surprising.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
Which speaks to how comfortable he now feels as himself.
He was willing to bring it up. If he still
had any issues, he would have held it with him.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
For Chris Davies is the perfect fit for Carlton to
complement Graham right and Michael Voss fair or fast.

Speaker 4 (34:16):
He's very experienced. He's been in the game for twelve
years at Port, so I think twelve eleven. So yeah,
I mean, if you want experience and you want someone
who's been there, done that with a list. When he
came a year after Ken, I believe so Port wasn't
in great shape. Then Ken sort of took it past that.
But he has experienced in this situation that Carlton are in,

(34:37):
so I think he's probably the best in that field
in that regard. He's a tough and hard man, will
certainly tell it how he sees it. But I think
that's what Carlton need at the moment, and particular in Voss,
who's probably into a dire territory. Having someone like that's
probably a good thing for the club.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Could he potentially help acquire Ken Hinckley and subsequently Zach Butters.

Speaker 4 (34:58):
Yes, I'm just trying to think what role can would
head of coaching.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
It can't hurt, can it?

Speaker 4 (35:03):
No? I mean Caldn haven't really It's interesting Calden haven't
really been linked to Butters, but I mean, how well, sorry,
how close kenon Zach are is very well documented, so
cherlay Wood, as Max said, sirlin Winn's any harm.

Speaker 3 (35:18):
He built a list that was consistently top four for
about a half decade, So that's about as good of
a track record as you can ask for. It's just
interesting timing to bring in a guy with that sort
of track record who's clearly going to be there for
a little while when you've got a coach who is
going into a finals or bus season, so he could
very easily be overseeing a new coach, and you would
think when you're getting someone so experienced, they would want

(35:39):
a new coach to start working with.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
It feels like he's been the number one guy for
a long time. I think Colin would be interested very
much in him before. I think Charlie Gardner got the
role because Davey's turned it down. I think he's had
multiple approaches, max last one. Mitch Brown just made it
much easier for the second, third, fourth, and beyond AFL
players to come out fair or fast ben fair.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
That's why it matters. That's if your reaction to Mitch
Brown coming out as bisexual is that wider we care.
It's his private business. It matters because it's brave to
do so because no one else has done it. By definition,
it is not an environment the AFL that encourages people
to be themselves publicly. There may be players who are gay.

(36:23):
There are certainly players that are gay or bisexual in
the AFL right now. Just statistically, it makes sense there
will probably be fewer than there are in the wider
community because the culture is not friendly to them, and
therefore they wouldn't go through all the pathways. They may
choose other things, but there are some and they will
now know that they do not have to be the first.
They do not have to be that groundbreaker. It's still
be a huge story if a current player does it,

(36:44):
but it helps them, it helps kids growing up, it
helps fans who now if you are queer and watching footy,
you have that connection to a footy player, you feel
slightly more welcome. Every little bit of that matters because
kids growing up and having their sexuality be a part
of themselves, that causes problems for them. I mean, youth

(37:07):
suicides are a bigger problem in that community than in
just the straight community. That is the sort of stuff
that matters. That is the sort of mental health elements
that matters. That's why the attention around this is really important.
That's why it was so positive. It was really good
to see. It was a really important groundbreaking moment, even
if it is just one guy saying this is what
I like.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
You mentioned something interesting there about the pathways, right, and
I was speaking of fairbitly Shiloh Curtis, who I do
a lot of afoor W games with for Fox, and
she talks about how there might not be as many
gay or bisexual players in the AFL on the eighteen
lists because they actually mightn't get there, because they mightn't
go through the pathways because they find it too difficult

(37:50):
to be themselves in that crucial in those crucial teenage
years where they don't feel comfortable or motivated to go
through that the talent pathways at the top level.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
And to be honest, the part of the Mitch Brown
story that got undersold by everyone was how he was
talking about how much crap people talked about gay people
and how many slurs were just commonly thrown around. Yep,
and that is confronting. Still.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Oh yes, h I would hope that society in general
has when Mitch was playing, which was in the late
two thousands to mid twenty tens. We have in generally
moved forward with those times. But the fact that you
know in the past two years that there's been five
six AFL players that have been suspended for homophobic slurs

(38:35):
says we've got a way to go.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
So there's still a way to go. But I think
kids growing up now are far more welcoming of people
regardless of sexuality than even when we were growing up,
and we're in our twenties and thirties, so like it's
going to keep improving, it's going to keep changing, so
that environment will also help just with the natural flow
of younger people into the system. But that's why it matters.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
We're in our thirties. Four. He had his birthday last
week and turned what twenty five?

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah, you see how I grouped us together nicely. It
made it Ben and I seen much really appreciates.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
It's now time to open up this on.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
The Fox Foody podcast. It's time to open up the mailbag.
Have a question for the panel. Tweetus every Monday morning
at Fox Footy.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
Hang on, I might hurt my back opening the mail bags.
Oh well, just a couple of questions in that is
the oldest you've ever sound. Epic win. Then old mate
Sean has a correction.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
Just just a fair correction. Segment is thrilled to have his.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
Favorite segment back, the fantasy Tristan Sherry owners. We're not
the ones pushing him for all Australian. I think this
is something I raised last week. Overall, he was way
down on last year and was the fifth ranked scorer
behind Max, English, Brundy and Marshall. Frustrating own outside of
a few stand up games. I think most wanted Grundy,
so fair enough, thank you, Sean uh. And then let's
just bring up this one from Cat who asks, not

(39:57):
the not our cat, not your partner cat, now my
partner cat, not my cat, and not my coworker cat. Right,
none of the three.

Speaker 4 (40:03):
They can't believe it's the mid of one. It's not
the mid of one.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
Her question is can I have some more biscuits please?
But the question from the Twitter user is why is
the buy round before finals? Why rewards seventh to eighth
with a week off? Wouldn't it be a great idea
to have the buy around before the Grand Final so
people could still watch the VFL Grand Final that weekend.
As a supporter, the buy round before finals is well.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
This has come into sharp focus in the Australian Sporting
conversation recently, Max after Ivan clear mass rested sixteen players
and I think Ricky's raiding Stewart planning to do the
same thing this week too much.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
The fact that we have to carr about the NRL because.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Of our jobs, that's it has brought it into sharp
focus a little bit more so.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
Keep in mind if you listeners, if you don't follow NRL.
First of all, fair enough, second of all the Panthers
four times back to back to back to back premiers,
aiming for a fifth, rested sixteen of seventeen players last
week for a Thursday night game against the top four rival.
And it's not like they were playing for nothing.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
They can toy banks and bulldogs. Thank you lock On
Galvin's fair Bulldog.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
It was a big move, big transfer this year as
we know, like they couldn't they could still play for
position in between fifth and eighth. I think it wasn't
a game for nothing. It was really weird.

Speaker 4 (41:21):
Would you say it had shades of Saint Kilda? Freemantles
Saturday thirty, first of our tour, August twenty thirteen at
Marvel Stadium, roof open.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
This the Cosey game.

Speaker 4 (41:30):
This is the Ross line. Yes, eleven changes the core,
Yes coaching Freemantle Aaron san Lanz, Peter Fox, Alex Syvanni Clancy, Pierce, Jesse, Christian,
Joshua Mellington, Alex Forster, Hayden Crozier, Matt Tabana, Joshua Simpson
and my personal favourite Craig Moller afl debut eleven changes.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
Matt Taberna was playing in twenty thirteen, he was, Yes,
the crab, that's impressive.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
Yes, that's that's why it is in to avoid that
kind of situation from twenty thirteen and the NRL today.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
But all it does is hurt the top teams, right,
history suggests based on the lesser performances of the top
four teams are, particularly the qualifying finyl winners and the
fact that we've had two teams win it from the
bottom half of the eight. I know you can have
freak results and outliers, but his three suggests that it
makes the top four advantage lesser and do we not
want to reward that when we're having a longer season

(42:27):
than met so.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
And then the other argument is as well, that you
have the buy before the Grand Final to help avoid
any concussion protocol issues.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
Which I don't that's going to be a one in
ten year thing. Sure, maybe it influences one player and
it helps, but I think there are advantages in terms
of having the awards.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Then, So what's the solution if there is no pre
finals by is one? Is there a bye and two?
Where do you put it or do you replace it
with something like a wild card? Weekend.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
Well, I think once we get to twenty teams, yes,
that's where it will be, right. We all have seventh,
three tenth, and eighth three ninth that week, so the
top six get the bye. It slightly neutralizes the advantage
seventh and eighth have, hor it makes their positions even
worse more to the point which helps fifth and sixth. Yeah,
I think that would be mostly acceptable, and I'm fine

(43:18):
with having ten finalists when we have twenty teams. Anytime
before that, we should not be having a wild card weekend.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
It does feel like when we to go to twenty teams,
if you're not finishing inside the top six, if you're
finishing seventh and eighth, it feels like that wild card weekend.
I don't know, it just feels right that we'll go
to a wildcard weekend. And yeah, yeah, seven and eight
they're a bit more disadvantage, but if you're not inside
that top six can be hard.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
You can draw the line wherever you want. We could
go back to a top six and fifth and sixth
would still most likely not win the flag each year,
and there will be random years where it would be
an incredible race for seventh and eighth and incredible race
for ninth or tenth whatever. You cannot possibly draw a
line that is perfect every year. It changes from last
year to this year. So they're going to do is
expand the finals because that means more inventory to sell
to TV partners and sell more games and get more money.

(44:05):
That's what they're going to do. That's just how it works.
That's baseball had the best postseason in sports when they
had purely two teams made the World Series and they
went four in the playoffs. And now they've got freaking
thirty teams playing finals.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
It sucks playing one hundred and sixty regularly.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
One hundred and sixty two games is not enough to
determine who the best teams is.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Apparently no, and baseball isn't necessarily a fast game either.
It does take a litto. That is the end of
the mail bag. One of my favorite things about this
year has been getting to know what Kevin Shety was
thinking twenty nine years ago. Let's do that again.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Now, And the best part Ben is that he was
thinking something weird. Almost always.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
Does.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
So what I've done this time, Kevin is go and
ask Kevin Sheedy in nineteen ninety six what he thinks
about the Melbourne coaching grace what he thinks they should do,
the panel of experts who he thinks they should consult,
and this was his advice to the Melbourne coaching panel.
Kevin says, in a touch of cunning, when I employ

(45:18):
people to do a job, I employ them because they
have something I haven't. The classic case is when you
go to a hospital. You don't go to an ice
specialist if you have a heart attack, do you That's
one thing I learned in the army. If you have
a problem, you go to the right people, the people
who specialize in fixing that particular sort of thing. If
the Army has a c problem, it goes to the Navy.

(45:40):
If it has an air problem, it goes to the
Air Force. You divide your football club into different areas
and bring in the right people to take charge of
those areas. Deep Essendon did not listen to that.

Speaker 4 (45:53):
For the next thirty years, WHOA, I don't want to
flay A few years after.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
That, Okay, for the next twenty five years. Except today is.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
The twenty I think today right as we recorded this
Tuesday is the twenty fifth anniversary of Essenon's twenty one
and one home and away season, which led to that
they won the Grand Final.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
Yes, because because that season finished because of this early,
because it still started early, finished because of the City
two thousand Olympics. Of course it did, which he also
talked about in this book. Did he really? I am
very excited it was. There's a section where he was
proposing that every sport plays a big game at the
MCG before the Olympics for some reason.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Isn't isn't he campaigning for something for Brisbane twenty thirty
I think he.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Wants footy to be a demonstration sport in the twenty
thirty two Brisban Olympics, which which also means it wouldn't
be for a medal. If it's a demonstration sport, I
don't think so. I'm not entirely We.

Speaker 4 (46:41):
Can ask him. He's on the podcast in three weeks times.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Please stop suggesting that that will happen.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Looking forward to having Kevin ready Please time for the
tips and cups for the first week of the finals
adelaide and calling them Friday night for the Ben Crocker Cup.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Well, you'll know who wins on Friday night. On Thursday night,
it will happen.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Sorry, and.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
A week off is really said, this is the problem
with the bye week.

Speaker 4 (47:04):
It does think about Ricky Raiders instead of the schedule
of the AFL qualifying final. Adelaide Collingwood.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
How much of that?

Speaker 2 (47:13):
How much of that max style reverse?

Speaker 4 (47:16):
Well now not tipping, so actually doesn't matter anymore, that's.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
True, but now it's reverse psychology anyway.

Speaker 4 (47:20):
Collingwood, I've been I've been not tricked. I've listened to
enough people saying that Farmers experience is going to hurt
the Crows.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
So yeah, okay, look, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (47:31):
A very losable game Collingwood.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
Collin Will I see it's not It's not like Collingwood
to go into State during the finals and win a game.
They shouldn't either, but they don't have.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
Abe less than a goal ben Key's will take a
shot for gold.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Two thousand and three. Where Collingwood went to the football
was then Football Park and they beat either the Power
or the Crows. Nathan Buckley didn't play. Paula Curia played
the game of his life and had forty odd possessions.
I want it, yeah. Qualifying final was against Port Adelaide

(48:03):
freelim final. No, no, there was one at Football Park
in a qualifying final.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
Interesting, look we'll.

Speaker 4 (48:11):
Look a lot down by two against Port Adelaide. Yeah,
Football Park.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Yeah, Nathan Buckley wasn't playing.

Speaker 4 (48:18):
No, he wasn't. Courier had forty.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Forty touches there, it is can colling would do something,
It would be it would be a very much that
kind of feel backs against the wall, all their personnel
not there. It would be remarkable if that.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
Was Port top of the ladder, Collingwood sneaking in the
top four.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
Yeah, just reminded me of that, Leon and kicking three goals.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Leon Nice. Geelong and Brisbane on Friday night, the Kai
Cockertoo Cup app for grabs, as is a preliminary final
home birth.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
Well, the first part is much more important. Yes, Trent
wear stiff of course, So I my finals prediction right
now would be Geelong winning this game, Brisbane getting revenge
in the Grand Final.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Which happened in fifth No. Fifty. Did West Coast win
the first week? Did West Coast win the qualifying home qualifyings?

Speaker 3 (49:14):
Then Hawthorne had to go through Fremantle and West Coast
host North Melbourne. They did, That's right, they did on
the Saturday.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
That's probably the closest North have probably been to a
flag since they're since the late nineties.

Speaker 4 (49:25):
So was that one week after Drew Petrie naked the tank?
It would have been two weeks, two weeks and fifteen.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Was Petrid nanked the tank in twenty fourteen because that
was a mark That was the Mark Bomber Thompson year.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
They also made a prelim that year, I think from
memory because they beat Gelong and in the semi final
and they beat Sydney in another one of day and
zed I want to say they lost?

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Did they lose?

Speaker 3 (49:45):
They lose that one?

Speaker 4 (49:45):
Yeah? Anyway, this is great chat.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Guys.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
We're poorly reading AFL tables, so I'm leaning leading Gelong
despite my natural presences.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Yeah, Geelong as well Giants and Hawks. John O o
rourke cup. Yeah, this is the Saturday afternoon game. I
think yeh, Saturday afternoon.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
I think Hawthorne makes a prelimb.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Hawthorn makes a prelium from eighth. Yep, when was the last.

Speaker 4 (50:07):
Time I think Crows go straight sets? Is that the math? Then?

Speaker 3 (50:09):
I think Collingwood goes colind go straight sets just because
of the matchups. I think Collingwoods a good team, but
Hawthorne just has a good chance of beating them. So
I think the Hawks win this. I think they then
win that. It's always a dangerous tip because I think
I tipped the same thing last year and then they
lost the semi final and was.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
The last time a team made a prelium from eighth?
I know set obviously.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
I think one of those North teams was eighth. Right, wow,
I think Okay, now we have to double check because people,
if they know helling at their phone.

Speaker 4 (50:36):
Sorry, oh, pass the time. When Max does that, I
think the.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Giants could bring in as many as five or six.

Speaker 4 (50:43):
Yeah, I reserve my right to change my judgment once
the teams drop. On Thursday six twenty pm Max ping
twenty fifteen.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
North finishes eighth, beats Richmond in the elimination final, beats
Sydney at A and Z in the semifinal, loses to
West Coast.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
In the pre Richmond in the elimination. So Richmond lost
the elimination final the year before against pour La before.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Its Carlton Carlton who finished ninth.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Yeah, what was the Richmond? How long? How much? Did
North meet Richmond.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
By seventeen points? Looked like they were inaccurate but ahead
at three quarters time and then kicked away a little
bit cup Mmm, looks like Caine Lambert got them back
within a kick, but then Lindsay Thomas and Jared Waite
finished off finished them off after a Jamie McMillen goal,
an important one in the third quarter.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Do you think the Giants are chance?

Speaker 4 (51:28):
I think so, but it's gonna be a huge chance.
Bloody interesting to see how many of those players come back,
and it sounds like most of them, if not all
of them will plus Brent Daniels who was an emergency
up to six changes.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
I think I think it's less of a chance based
on what we saw it training today. The really yeah,
I think that's what the one thing I did see. Okay, interesting,
I mean look that, as I said, they are good
enough to win four finals in a row. It's just
whether they're good enough to do it in a row,
if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
And then the last game is the Freemantle doc is
against the Gold Coast Suns. Yes to go pass executive
produced to leave Carl and he's the only Gold Coast
supporter that I actually know. He's very excited around at
the moment. It is, of course for the Josh Corbett
Cup and Greg Broughton will be on hand to present
the best on Grand of course as well form.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
A Coburg Star of course. Lee Carson Yes, and he's
playing days Yes and Stert Yes, that's right.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
So I think this is closer than everyone's giving it
credit for. I think everyone thinks this is the easiest
tip of the final.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
First week the couch numbers last night I presented that
the Suns actually could match up quite well. He was Freemantle.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
I mean their percentage is sixteen points better. They have
been in that regard a better team over the course
of the season. If they and if they'd beaten Port,
they would have been fourth. So I think you can
make the case. I do think it's just it doesn't
in the same way that the Crows don't. They feel
like a prelim team. The Suns don't feel like a
team that wins, certainly not two.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Don't feel like a semi final comment.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
Maybe, but winning a tough away final against sixty thousand
fuming Dockers fans seems like maybe a bridge too far
for them. But look, they made it. You're happy enough.
I think it's a past no matter what, because they
finally made it right.

Speaker 4 (53:06):
Yeah, I think so. So Dockers, Yes, yes, I'm going
Docers as well. I think they buy into the emotion
like against the Western Bulldogs. And it's truly not Five's
last game in Perth, so they'll be sending off him
and indirectly Walters as well. But yeah they do. They should,
They should win. I know gold Coast so much, probably
a much better profile in some regards, but it should

(53:27):
be Fremantle.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
It could be a similar experience as Sons have to
what the Giants had in that prelium. Finally, as Richmond
in twenty seventeen ninety seven thousand Richmond fans and one
thousand Giants fans.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
So you're saying that their captain is going to get
concussed but there going to get off anyway too soon.

Speaker 4 (53:45):
Yes, the match trivia, Yes, that's why the Crows lost
in twenty seventeen Grands.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
Oh that the power swung, It was it, That's what
it was, Okay, interest wasn't the power stance? The powerstance
stance stance, bloody South Australian.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
I still think Adelaide has a good dants to beat
to Collingwood on who wins the flag?

Speaker 4 (54:02):
Who wins the Big Dance. Okay, I still think Brisbane.

Speaker 3 (54:06):
Yeah, I'd pick up Brisbane.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
We are going to be right across all the finals
of course. All the finals coverage and trade courage and
Whispers on Foxfooty dot com dot Au.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Thanks for listening to the Fox Footy podcast. Like what
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