Fox Footy Podcast: Was that the best AFL round EVER?

David Zita, Max Laughton and Ben Waterworth review Round 9 and preview Round 10 of the 2025 AFL season on the Fox Footy Podcast, with a big breakdown of the closest round in 55 years plus Fair or Farce, the Mailbag, Sheeds' Wisdom and much more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The big footy issues from every angle, dissected by a
team that follows the game closer than anyone else wherever
you are around the planet. This is your ultimate guide
to the AFL. This is the Fox Footy Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Did we just witness the greatest round of AFL football
in the eighteen team era? Because it had it all?
Thriller's comebacks, heroic individual acts, heroic individual games, controversy and
big talking points, and yet we still have the same
eight teams in the top eight for the fourth consecutive week.
We'll discuss all that, plus dissect all the big issues

(00:37):
in pharophas and the mailbag, deep dive into the wisdom
of Kevin Sheedy and give you the expert tips all
on the Fox Footy Podcast. Ben Waterworth with you as
is demand. Coming off a roller coaster a few days
for expected score enthusiasts Max Lawd and Hello MAXI.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Hello Ben. Yes, quite well, it turns out when.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Four of nine games sort of went against expected.

Speaker 4 (00:56):
Score, Well, when you have a what average margin of
ten points blown out by the Melbourne Hawthorne game which
was not closer to three quarter thing exactly, You're gonna
have a bunch of close ones that don't reflect what
actually happened, although Sidney Essendon was a weird one because
that was never close and expected score claims it was
you liar.

Speaker 5 (01:14):
Right, so you're going agains six peop Well, there's not.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
You have to analyze it. That's the point.

Speaker 4 (01:18):
If I could just have expected Scorrey Gospel, I would
just put the numbers out and then not tweet. And
then what would I do if I couldn't tweet?

Speaker 2 (01:25):
I don't know. I also don't know what this man
would do if he couldn't tweet. The Sunday specialist David Geters,
it's good.

Speaker 5 (01:31):
To be back.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Nice to have you back.

Speaker 5 (01:33):
It's been a hiatus.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
Look, there might be a potential it might be like
a soft phase out of myself from the podcast intention
thinking Jamien barrass not intenarrett.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Mid two thousands footy show style.

Speaker 5 (01:49):
Oh very yeah, it's not. It's not an intentional phase out.
I just noticed. I mean, when was the last on
here three weeks ago?

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Wow, wasn't it three episodes?

Speaker 5 (01:57):
So it's gouty been up to just a lot of
work there going well there mate, and yeah, it's there's
a lot happening.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
And this is the first time we've spoken in three weeks.
The wisdom, the wisdom of yes what the segment called no,
But that's Jared Jared Heally, Jared Whitey has that Robert
Robert Cradick. Yes, well, I think Crash crad experience are
pretty similar. To be honest, crashing.

Speaker 5 (02:23):
I'm just try I'm thinking it's a very there's a definite.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
There's a slight definition tweak in between the wisdom of
Kevin Sheedy in this book that we're talking about and
the wisdom of rubbocratic things will.

Speaker 5 (02:33):
For He's going, well, yes, yes, if people want him
on him instead of me, and you can message to
the big Malbourn.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
Are you trying to get done? I'm saying, whatever, are
you walking into the coaches office? I can play what's best,
So I'm just say yes.

Speaker 5 (02:48):
It's real sort of pressed Duke who did that?

Speaker 2 (02:52):
He did? Yes, Yes, that's ye.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
Very interesting stuff. He said that Kevin's got a new
book coming. What didn't email about Kevin? She's like, there's
like five or six Sheety books.

Speaker 5 (03:04):
I think there's another one coming.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
It's about the stories, the best stories off the field
or something.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
And he's a big part of it. Cover or something
like that.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
Yes, very good, Yes, yes, maybe maybe were gonna have
the book launch on this podcast.

Speaker 5 (03:18):
We'll see if grand edition. Yeah, we'll have as many
people in the room as there would be readers of
the book. What I could do is.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Have a uh maybe maybe Crash will come on you reckon,
you can get him on.

Speaker 5 (03:30):
Well, I don't is it if he works in the
same company.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
He doesn't anymore, doesn't he? Well, I mean he's on
the back page. He's on the back page, but I
think that's more like a guest spot. He works for
news Corp. And we're not news Corp.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
But anymore, remember, oh.

Speaker 5 (03:42):
We're not before well it was a slot, was portion
of news Corp?

Speaker 4 (03:46):
No, well, yes, they invested, but we're the z own.
We love Saudi Arabian now I reckon. So Crash was
to come on and be okay, yeah, just keep that
in mind.

Speaker 5 (03:55):
Yeah right, yeah, he's a good one. Okay.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Ranking top four games from the weekend there.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Okay, Max, we'virtually having a discussion on Sunday morning.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
What gave you half?

Speaker 4 (04:06):
What was the best game of the season so far?
So you had Geelong Jean to be clearly a contender
for that is up there.

Speaker 5 (04:13):
I find it very funny.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
It's the same stuff every like last week, we just
watched the Game of the Year because the year and
their week later.

Speaker 5 (04:22):
Oh my god, we just saw the Game.

Speaker 4 (04:23):
Of the Year because it also was like in mind,
it's not an unmerited discussion to have attack Merrit was
not playing in that, but anyway, very good.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Get him to Geelong work.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
I had Geelong Giants first. I'm sorry, No, I didn't. No,
I had dog Sons first.

Speaker 5 (04:39):
You are taking that.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
That was an excellent.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
Game, helped by the fact that you watched all of
it because you were working steaday night.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
I didn't watch all that I had to. It was
a genuine split screen operation happening on fair. It was
very good.

Speaker 5 (04:50):
Fifty seven I had that third Giants, that's second. Significant
had the Spoon Bowl fourth. I was good fun but
Spoon ahead of North Lions.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
Yeah, we've ignored to draw there in your top four.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yeah, Richmond West Coast was fourth, yes, and North Lines
was fifth because Richmond Richmond won it whereas North Melbourne
lost it.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
And there was also a sense of West Coast trying
their absolute guts out and try and get that wind
I found that a very engaging.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
Absolutely, whereas North Brisbane was the least engaging draw possible.
It was like, how is this still close?

Speaker 3 (05:25):
And then the final siren goes like genuinely lost that game,
Like I expect to go to run by like five goals.
I haven't seen many drawers where I'm like, they clearly
lost that game, like the North clearly didn't should have
won that, Like they had a shot at Clark in
the box and like he would be really upset because
they should have.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
No, he's pretty, he keeps his emotions and check think.

Speaker 5 (05:43):
Angry Clark I might be back. There were some shots
of him getting very frustrated in the in the box.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
How about angry Andrew mcqualta right at the end there.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yes, that was that was the back page of The
West was like.

Speaker 5 (05:54):
A really blurry screenshot of him.

Speaker 4 (05:56):
It was the exact same screen grape I got when
we put the video on Facebook of him walking.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
That was great.

Speaker 5 (06:01):
Probably screenshoted it from Facebook actually knowing the where was that?

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Thought? The West West was.

Speaker 5 (06:06):
We're not affiliated with them?

Speaker 2 (06:07):
No, seven West Media.

Speaker 5 (06:08):
Yes Mitch Woodcock, yes, yep, yes, very good.

Speaker 4 (06:12):
Motormouth Mitch is his column on a Monday morning. I
believe it's called motormouth Mitch, I believe.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
So what about So you really like the Geelong Giants game?
That was your number one?

Speaker 5 (06:20):
I put Gelong Giants at one.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah, I had Showdown fifty seven to I had Gold
Coast Western Bulldogs third and then Richmond West Coast fourth. Yeah,
Max Sinkuila Carton number one for me. I think I
really enjoyed.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
You know what, sin Kilda Carlton first half was okay,
just the third quarter was as dour as it gets. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
Yeah, on your ross.

Speaker 4 (06:40):
The fixed in the last two weeks. So freemantleson kilter
last week on a Friday night, Yes, along with Essendon North,
which I don't know at what point during the fixture
process they thought that was going to be a good game.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
It was close, but not a bit.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Of campaigning maybe from both sides to get that that
time slot.

Speaker 3 (06:55):
Well, good for them. They've campaigned well and.

Speaker 5 (06:57):
Then this week, yes, as has Anthony Albanese.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
So yes, let's talk about the election now and that
would be fun.

Speaker 5 (07:02):
Did you speak about that I've been on since the
election we.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Had We mentioned that it was a good Saturday night
for Max a couple of saturdays ago because Geelong beat
Collingwood and thrilling circumstances.

Speaker 5 (07:12):
And what were you happy about Labor winning or Dutton
losing his seat?

Speaker 6 (07:16):
Yeah, it was more than negative and positive because he
is quite like mean Max at heart like when like
you take what you would take more joy in Dutton
losing that's not his seat than you would in Labor
Party winning the election.

Speaker 5 (07:32):
That would be my guest.

Speaker 4 (07:33):
Well, I didn't vote for the Labor Party, that's fair enough.

Speaker 5 (07:36):
Yeah, well I don't know what vote legalized cannabis thing
was that? What it was?

Speaker 3 (07:39):
It was that's the most obscure, weird party there was
that ran not trumpet of so that'd be the answer.

Speaker 4 (07:49):
This would be Fusion. The Fusion Party ran on the station.
If you if you voted for every box above the
line on the Fusion in the Victorian Senate, you voted
for the Fusion Party at some point.

Speaker 5 (07:58):
It's a real party.

Speaker 4 (07:59):
Yes, they were like a bunch of random parties leading
which way, well sort of left but then sort of
not really weird.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
There're a fusion of a bunch of nonsense. We should
probably talk about football some Sorry, what this is you
bring me on mate, all right, this is what you get,
so sorry.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Let us know your feedback. Who's on top of the
power Colin still, Collingwood.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
Sometimes for Masashi.

Speaker 5 (08:21):
Who's it for today?

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Well?

Speaker 3 (08:22):
I think is it? Do they sponsor the graphic like
twice a month or something? I think it's the deal.
So we'll see.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
If you see the graphic, you'll know number one Collingwood,
Collingwood Stage, collingw David Yeah, yeah, yes, incredible win over Frio.

Speaker 5 (08:38):
Incredible.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
That's a bit one in terms of the outs that
they had, the outs they had going over to play Frero,
which is still a very hard game. You know, Frio
is still a what even if there.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
Are six to tenth team gallant. They were gallant, and
they certainly had a million inside fifties. But Collingwood's defense
standing up and then performing incredibly well. I think that
was a typical Collingwood going West win.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Do you know that they travel well the Pies.

Speaker 4 (08:59):
Craig McCrae has not won, has not lost a game
where he had to fly West in his career as Collinwood.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Fly has never lost a game in flying West.

Speaker 4 (09:07):
Yes, right, that's why he's called Fly. I presume yes,
loves the planes, so Collingwood stays number one B.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
I'll find out favorite. Is it his favorite movie?

Speaker 5 (09:18):
Just keep going?

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Maybe Fly the Fly?

Speaker 5 (09:21):
Just keep going, I'll find out, Just keep going.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (09:25):
I put the Brisbane lines down a spot for drawing
with North melon.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
It was a pretty ordinary performance. A Lockie Neil post
game said that we couldn't have played much worse. But
North Melbourne played really well in his post game, and
I think he sort of corrected him way through it.
Oh wait, sound really bad?

Speaker 5 (09:40):
Ques?

Speaker 3 (09:40):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (09:40):
So?

Speaker 4 (09:41):
And I've got the despite their loss. I've got the
Bulldog second because I think Brisbane's loss deserved a gang on.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
So the Bulldogs lost to Gold Coast and Brisbane drew
with North Melbourne, but the Dogs have usurped Brisbane on
the power rankings.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
What's worse drawing with North Melbourne or losing to Gold
Coast in Darwin where they haven't lost in.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Four in here. In this situation with Brisbane, I would
still bank a little bit of form rather than a
snap judgment off.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
But I would argue that Brisbane's form has not been
as great as the ladder represents. I think they've had
one really good win over sin Kilda. They had the
good the Pineapple Grapple was better than the margin suggested.
Other than that a bunch of close games. Bad lost
to Collingwood.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
This is where it'd be objective. But if Brisbane was
playing the Western Bulldogs this weekend at Marvel or Gabber,
I would be picking the Brisbane line still when.

Speaker 3 (10:28):
I would be picking based on whether would you.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Pick it this weekend? If Brisbane was playing Western Bulldogs
this week David at Marvel.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
So apparently I gits Back to the Future reference. So
I've been going through a lot of different threats here.

Speaker 5 (10:40):
So I think Mick Malthouse called him fly Bags.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
That's his Twitter handle, Yes, but I think he called
him fly Bags as a reference to Marty McFly from
Back to the Future because McCrae McFly.

Speaker 5 (10:55):
Oh yeah, I thought below, yeah, yeah, below, Yeah, I
think fly.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
I think McFly. That's it, so I think, and now
it's now they've dropped the milk and now it's just fly.

Speaker 4 (11:04):
Right, Okay, okay, sure, he doesn't really remind me of
Marty McFly otherwise. Yeah, I mean, he loves skateboarding on
the back of a truck. But you know, other than that.

Speaker 5 (11:15):
I would tip.

Speaker 4 (11:17):
The Oh it's a good ques, it's a good so
that this is my point. I think Brisbane just deserved
to go down a spot because of their poor performance.
And the problem with the rankings this week was that
second third give my answer, I'm letting you think. Sorry, sorry,
sorry being professional. Sorry, Second and third and fourth all
lost or didn't win rather than Brisbane, and then Hawthorne
beating Melbourne wasn't overly convincing. Finally beat them for the

(11:38):
first time in what eight years? But they stay fifth,
gold Coast moving up because I do credit they win
over the Bulldogs, which forces.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
Out of laid.

Speaker 4 (11:46):
Now the problem was ben My rankings were too correct
last week.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
So that change.

Speaker 5 (11:51):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
Well, you know, I think i'd tip the dogs.

Speaker 5 (11:55):
So there you go, I tip the dogs.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
And then how much do you read into percentage at
this time of the year as well, because the Dogs
is percentages on hundre twenty two in Brisbane sitting on
top of the ladder with one hundred and thirteen.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Yeah, there's no great percentages.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
No, I think there's something too that they have not
been and they've talked about this. It SEMs like every
week there's a press conference where Harris Andrews comes out
and says, oh, you know, we know we're banking the wins,
but we know we can play better than this, you know,
and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
And the reason behind the percentage is offensively, Actually, they're
not scoring brilliantly at the moment.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
They're not banking the percent engine.

Speaker 4 (12:22):
Now the percentage doesn't matter because of the draw in.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Because in the last four weeks they've gone seventy one,
sixty six, one hundred and eight against set Kilda, which
was their best win, then fifty three against Collingwood.

Speaker 4 (12:32):
It's got some problems there, slightly ex but I think
like it was a really close, exciting weekend where we
didn't learn an enormous amount.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
No, I agree with that, you know.

Speaker 4 (12:41):
I think Carlton's all right. I think Carlton are the
best team out of the eight right now. The Giants
showed again that they have even if they have system problems,
they have so much talent sometimes that it just works
for them and they love playing in Geelong. Sydney is
so untrustable, but you have to wait and see how
good they can be when they get their players back.
Untrustworthy is the most interesting team out of the eighth

(13:01):
though for me right because I've still got them down
there fourteenth, I still think I want to see them
do it against a good team. They've beaten a lot
of teams below them on the ladder, beaten teams. They
probably should be beating Sidney maybe their best win so far,
and they were pretty convincing in it too.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
And then this is the thing with Essendon, So they've
got a percentage of ninety point eight. Yes at the moment,
but that is the Swan and Saints Dockers and Carlton.
Carlton's percentage is actually quite good, yes, way better than
the bombs.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
Carlton centerge was good when they was up and four
or whatever it was.

Speaker 4 (13:27):
So you know, they played a bunch of close games
and finally banks some wins the percentage even though they
had that big loss to Adelaide. So Essenton, their defense
has actually been around since round four, been very good.
Keep in mind that since round four they haven't played
many good teams. I think Collingwood and a couple of
others that are okay, and then a bunch of bad
teams they've beaten. So you want to see estdon against

(13:47):
the properly good teams. They got the Bolldogs this week,
which is a great test because I really rate the
Bulldogs and see if you're just seen with the rankings
and if their defense can stand up again, Zach reed,
looking fantastic.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
That's really good.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
They actually might be more than just mediocre.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
What about the Geelong and Giants game, David, which you
would have watched very closely as part of your Sunday agenda.
There did we learn much about either team?

Speaker 5 (14:09):
It did?

Speaker 2 (14:09):
It felt like it felt like a final at GMHBA
State actually would be interesting if that's that would play,
and then the Cats would be zipping to in finals
at GMHBA Pro probably they would be. Are you convinced
about the Giants? It took a Jesse Hogan seven goal
hall to yeah, but it wins a win.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
I'm pretty well they I tipped them for the flag
Brix season, so I need to stay with them. I
wasn't like I was concerned about their losses recently, but
not like alarmed. I still think they can turn. It's
a it's a long season. I think this was probably
a bit more in line with where I thought they
would be, sort of matching it to toe with Geelong.

(14:47):
In Geelong it's a pretty good efforts, so that might
get them back on track. They have got a lot
of injuries though, like especially in the middle of the ground.

Speaker 5 (14:54):
It's all in the one you know, the Kelly Canelio.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
They're sort of just Bedford will come back hopefully so,
but it's just I think they're a bit hamstrung at
the moment.

Speaker 5 (15:04):
Jake Stringer exactly less hamstring genuinely has So.

Speaker 4 (15:09):
That's just nominative determinism at work, isn't it.

Speaker 5 (15:11):
Yes, Jake Stringer just has to be injured at points.
I like it. I think they're going well. Yeah that
was the confidence burst drind Ear, just to keep the
faith in them.

Speaker 4 (15:21):
Yeah, I think that's fair. Look, you look at the
Giants losses this year Hawthorne and Tazzy, Adelaide and Adelaide
Bulldogs in Canberra, Sydney at the SCG, pretty reasonable losses.
They are a fine team that is incredibly talented at
times and has some worse midfield than everyone.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Thing is the Sydney look after the performance from Sydney
on the weekend. How does that Giants lost to Sydney
look that looks that was the outlier out of that group.

Speaker 4 (15:45):
That's the weird sort of counterbalance of yeah, they beat
gel Long and Gelong, but geez the week before.

Speaker 3 (15:49):
It looks even worse now, doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Because and Joey was really strong on First Crack last
night saying Sydney at the moment don't look like they
have got a brand and it's part of injury. It's
part of the injury discussions, out of the growing pains
under a new coach in Dean Cox. But Sydney, it's
hard to see Sidney playing finals now.

Speaker 5 (16:06):
Well, I haven't. I spoke to Nick Del Santo for
AFL tonight today. Oh sorry, Raven. Yes, it was a great,
a great chat.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Who knows what day we recorded this, because Damian Barrats
are here to tell us the daytime and the exact moment.
I so I spoke to dal and he said something
interesting about the Swan's He's like, you always knew what
you're going to get against them. You always knew you
were going to be him for a tough game of foot,
are you always regardless of the result? And he doesn't

(16:34):
know that now they look like they've lost that toughness
at the moment, which is a big change I think
from the Sydney Swans that we've known for so long.

Speaker 4 (16:41):
They weren't really winning by toughness last year either. They
were winning via midfield incredible talent and then that great
ball movement that could cut in on open goals coming
from the midfield exactly. So, the incredible talent of that
midfield trio of Heinie, Warner and Gordon was good enough
to propel them into winning most games and in the
first quarter to the Giants, just having two of them

(17:02):
playing at their best was good enough to win the
entire game. But now when they're not doing that every
week and they've still got flaws at either end of
the ground, it's just the problems that we thought that.
I thought it just going into last year. That's why
I had Sydney ninth going into last year, because I figured, oh, yeah,
the midte was really good, but the rest of the
ground isn't good enough for him. And now it's playing
out just a year later. Yeah, never wrong, just early.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
We talked about that loss last sorry, that win over
the Giants last week, and they're spread a goalkickers. So
on the weekend they had Hayward kick two and then
singles to Campbell, Grundy, MacLean, McInerney, Sheldrick and which one
was that, Corey Warner Corey. So again it that goalkicking
list we talked about last week where they eleven of

(17:42):
their twelve goals came from individual goalkickers. Again that on
the weekend, it just feels like an unsustainable spread there.
And we heard Logan McDonald I thinks had another injury
setback as well. We know they're still waiting on a
Mardi so that there's a there's just so many questions.

Speaker 4 (17:57):
Marks Man Swan that had a been incredible run with
injuries last year, as in very few of them. They
basically used twenty six players all year, with a couple
of fillions every now and then. They've already had to
go into their depth so much more. They're two games
and percentage out of the eight. Looking at the teams
outside the eight, a lot of the talk around I
think this eight will make the finals is also because
there are not a lot of convincing teams outside the

(18:19):
eight right soon.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Probably will be thought preseason.

Speaker 4 (18:21):
Yeah, yeah, we thought there are a bunch of okay
teams and even the best teams aren't incredible. Collingwood is
reasonably clearly the number one team right now, but even
still they can have their flaws at times. So who's
the best team out of the eight? I'm looking at Carlton,
looking at Freeo, I'm looking at a fully fit Sydney.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
It should be Freemantle.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
It should be free Men.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
How badly did you feel about them out of the
Collingwood game, considering they should have won, and maybe you
can look at that half fall and say, hey, they
had all this They did all this stuff right midfield
was really good. They had double the inside fifties almost.
It seemed like every single time they went inside fifty
they were bombing it to twenty five meters out and
every dock it was leaping for the ball and then
conley Wood crumbed it.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
Yeah, it could work.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
I feel like we didn't learn a lot about Freemantle.
They play the Giants at Giants Stadium this week, that
that'll be a real test for them. That's a very
interesting game, real test for them. It's now time for
David's Favorite Scene and now.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
On the Fox Foody Podcast, another strong edition of Australia's
favorite segment. Fair or fast?

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Fair or fast coming your way right now, David, we've
got an umpiring problem in twenty twenty five? Fair or fast?

Speaker 5 (19:32):
What's this stem from?

Speaker 2 (19:33):
This comes from? And I think it's a genuine howler,
But how they missed the I mean, that's just a
clear And then there was also a dangerous tackle. Did
you see the Joel Handling dangerous tackle on Nick Martin
late in the game that Joel Hammling was penalized for.
That was a lineball. I think West Coast might have
been a little stiff late against Richmond yesterday, as.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
I'll say fair in that I don't remember as many
like howlers as I've seen recently, like in this year.

Speaker 5 (20:02):
I haven't said there's many clear cat like wrong decisions.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
But has there been a decision worse than the tripping
one on Cossi picket?

Speaker 5 (20:08):
I just I've got a general feel in my body.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
So that's the problem with this discussion. I think is
it every year because talk about it so much, it
becomes a self fulfilling And always around this time of
the year.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
I talked spoke to someone in the umpiring department in
previous years and they always said around Anzac Day, umpiring
commentary always peaks, but it just feels like there's a
few more prominent voices from like officials, coaches at clubs
now that I'm making a bit noise, more noise than usual,
And I do wonder if it is we are starting
to see the effect of the lack of depth across

(20:44):
umpiring from bottom up. If that is now starting to
come to the forest, some of these more experienced umpires
over the next coming years start to hang up the whistle.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
When was the umpiring good?

Speaker 5 (20:55):
Hang up the whistle?

Speaker 4 (20:57):
When was umpiring ever acceptable that no one complained about it?
That's the answer is never.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
This is true.

Speaker 4 (21:02):
We also do not remember how we felt at this
time in every other season, because I'm sure if you
went back through years of this podcast, there were weeks
where we said the umpiring is really troubling this year.
You know, these bad mistakes they're making. They need to
fix these problems.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think we would have. I don't
think umpiring discussion or officiating rules that is not as
prominent in the back half of a season.

Speaker 4 (21:23):
No, because we get we have the discussion, then we
get past it, and then we get into finals run
up and all of that other stuff.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
Other narratives come up, so it always happens, shall pass.

Speaker 4 (21:33):
There will never be a solution to this game, which
is clearly very hard to umpire it max.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Forcing players who stay down after appearing to cop head
contact to undertake a mandatory HIA will therefore stop players
exaggerating high contact, fair or fast.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
I think this is a fast because I don't think
this is as big a problem as David King Lean
Montagna made it on First Crack on Sunday night. I
think there are certainly times where players do it, and they,
as former players themselves admitted themselves. Of course, every player
at some point exaggerates for a free kick because you're
trying to milk the rules in that certain way. It's
just what happens. But I think there is there are

(22:11):
too many negatives of that idea of a forced HIA,
in that players in the knowledge of that would be
trying to get up even if they're not right. We
just saw Lockey Schultz on Thursday night trying to get
up falling weirdly, being made to run off the ground
while cancust falling.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
It would be.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
More situations like that where players who are injured are like,
oh no, I have to get up. I don't want
to be out for an hia and then that's putting
themselves in more danger if they were allowed to keep playing.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
So Za, it'd be unfathomable that umpires quote didn't see
end quote Locky Shultz stumblings a or fast planned yes.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
Planned far fast, Yes, I'm sorry I didn't see the
fact he had this ready.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
The statement was that the umpire at the time didn't
see Lockey Shultz stumbling around against.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Free Medle'd say fair that they didn't. I'd say, you
need to say that sort of stuff maybe, but I
can say it's fair that they would have missed it.

Speaker 4 (23:06):
There's a lot of players to things watch on the ground.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
I do one of those that there's four umpires and
that's happening in the middle of the ground.

Speaker 4 (23:12):
Not it's a blunder in the same way that missions
not cutting the ford out.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
So I mean it's a mistake that they made that
they shouldn't make again. Yeah, I would not suspect that
this is going to happen again this season.

Speaker 5 (23:23):
Much like that trimming call.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
We are watching the game from a very different way
as fans at home than umpires, so we did not
have a close up shot of locker shorts getting bumped
and fall into the ground and then replays afterwards in
the same way that they were. Maybe they saw it
as they were watching the play, but they may have
had to move on, like all if to keep following
the ball and seeing what else is happening.

Speaker 3 (23:42):
So look, it's a mistake, but an understandable one.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Okay, Max, I'm just going to put Ken Hinckley's direct
quote to you as a fair or fast. This was
about Willy Rioli. I would doubt anyone would go there
with the stance the AFL has put in place around
comments comments said on the field end quote fair or fast.

Speaker 4 (24:00):
Yeah, I think if players are smart, they'll understand that
getting involved in a situation of sledging or whatever really
really isn't beneficial to anyone, not to Willy, not to them,
not to just general nice practice. My general rule with
footy players who continue to break it is don't be
a jerk. And they're always doing it, hitting each other

(24:20):
and whatnot, but that will continue to happen. Yeah, this
situation is clearly way more complicated than everyone would want
it to be. Will it really the fact that he
does deal with daily racism and that makes him maybe
have less of a trigger for acting out. It's unfortunate.
It's something he needs to both deal with and we
need to understand.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
That he is dealing with.

Speaker 4 (24:41):
And it's why my fear is that I think Jay
Clark wrote about this on Monday with The Held's Sun,
that the loud discussion around him and things he has
arguably done wrong, but also things that have happened to
him that were even more wrong, Ye are making him
a target and he's always going to get bood or
he's always going to get more attention and people just

(25:01):
in random comments on social media are going to be
more critical than they need to be, and.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
Of course they'll be racist.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
So it's a really unfortunate situation that he find himself
in and I don't know how he gets out of
that ever.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, and I think a good shout out here Koshi
gets a hard time. But David cost is a very
good interview with five Double a Breakfast last week and
articulated very well not only the abuse that Willy gets,
but all First Nations players in his situation port Adelaide,
because they do have a very high representation of First
nation players on their lists and the abuse that comes

(25:31):
out out and which makes it such a complex situation.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
I think another good interview was Chris Davies on three
Out w on the weekend.

Speaker 5 (25:37):
That was a really good in terms of the depth
he went into. I think it was with Tim lay
and Caroline Wilson. Him and Caro had back and forth
about it, which I found really really intriguing. That was
a really good interview in terms of going into the
depth of how much there is to this issue. So
that's also another one that was very very enlightening.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
There are still a very old fashioned view. It's still
a very white industry. We are three white men talking
about in fact.

Speaker 5 (26:04):
Yes, that's correct.

Speaker 4 (26:05):
There are the things that we just don't understand. Even
I will briefly touch on Alex Pierce. There are things
to his life and as an Indigenous man where he
feels about certain issues that are impacted by the indigenous plight.

Speaker 5 (26:18):
That's all same, not that's referring to, but yeah, I'll
talk about it.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Okay, Zita, it'd be better to send a one point
two million dollar player like Clayton Oliver to the VFL
to regain form as a midfielder there rather than play
him as a tagger at AFL level fair or fast?

Speaker 5 (26:38):
Uh no.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
Fast if he wants to No, no, if he wants
to play that role and he thinks that's the best
service he can give to the team. Yes, he's overpaid
for that role, but that's I think you'd rather have
him in the team than not if he If he's
doing they actually did quite well on the weekend.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Played a very good game.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
But you got to know what he wants. Yeah, Like
so I don't think sending him to the VFL is
going to I don't know if his performance, like from
all reports, his fitness and his fitness levels are good,
Like he's actually been really fit this year. He's done
the right things off the track. It's just his footy
is not. He's not his ability as a player is

(27:19):
not as threatening as it was, or his output as
a player is not as threatening as it was in
recent seasons. I don't know if the game's moved past
him or what's changed. But I don't know if it's
a purely Clayton Oliver. It's not a Clayton Oliver a
work rate or desire issue. I don't think the VFL
is going to solve that.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
I think you're right. I think the game in ways
has moved past the pure inside midfielder. He doesn't have
a lot.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
Of well that's his issue is he has that many
other other weapons.

Speaker 5 (27:45):
But the weapon he had was just so good.

Speaker 4 (27:47):
But he can be incredibly damaging with that weapon. And
you look at Jack McCray, who is a very inside
player and has done very well for the Saints this year.
You can still find a role for those players. It's
just that he's not being as damaging and as we
talked a bit about last week, that makes his trade
Are you even worse than An arguably was six months
ago because you could make the excuse last year that
he wasn't fit and he was playing poorly. Now he's
fit and he's playing poorly, well, then there's the upside

(28:10):
is harder to.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Find, Maxi Rowan Marshall's strong performance against Carlton proved the
Saints are putting their money and trade priorities in the
wrong areas, fair or fast.

Speaker 4 (28:21):
I think you could draw that conclusion before that game.
Even definitely a fair call that the idea of just
in terms of list construction, paying one point seven million
a year to a rock forward in Tom de Conning
is just incredibly questionable because of what we know about
Boondom footy. And you know the most dominant ruckman of
the last decade, Max Gorn. Yeah he won a flag,

(28:41):
but what that was because the rest of the team
was really good too. Right now, he's been incredible and
the Demons are still bottomed six. So you can only
go so far with a top player in that position
with two. Yes, the Saints had some success with Marshall
and Writer, but you have to wonder what that would
do as compared to spending that money if possible, because
the main thing the sensors to do is get someone
to take their money. Yes, could you get Miles Bergman

(29:02):
this year? Could you get even a year down the
road Zach Butter's which would be an ideal recruit because
re one of the better players in the comp.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Yeah, Exali read.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
Of course you need those more damaging players, and what
they have already got quite a good little suite.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
Of is damaging half backs.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
So if they can keep on in Miller, which does
seem like it's not going to be easy from Port
and Jack said, Clare continues to play really well, and
then they have Bergman to add to that. Perhaps they
rotate them through the midfield. That's a modern way of
playing footy. That's a modern way of building a list.
They've done pretty well considering.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
How they progressed.

Speaker 4 (29:33):
This list to be a lot younger than it was
a couple of years ago, while still being broadly competitive.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
There's still a fine team, so I'm pretty happy with
their trajectory.

Speaker 4 (29:41):
There is the risk of if you paid Tom to Conning,
you back yourself into a corner where even if he's
really good, it doesn't help you as much as a
player at a different position.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
And it does put up the question of what does
Rowan Marshall think about that? How that impact his footy future?
Will he look elsewhere? Will others come for him and
try and twist his arm? David Luke McDonald elected to
bump very good.

Speaker 5 (30:06):
Well.

Speaker 4 (30:06):
People will know the result of the match review by
the time they've listened to this.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
But your projection false? No, I mean fast, not the segment.

Speaker 5 (30:13):
Sorry fast. I don't think it's a tricky one, though
it is really tricky. There's a lot of angry people
in the comments.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
I actually can't get over that people think there's a bias.

Speaker 5 (30:26):
Yeah. The other night I was before I went to
against North.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, I think they think that because I was going
to bed and I was just like, I'll just check
because I haven't checked this for a while, so I
just oh, my good, okay, my people people are.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
I think when David puts out sort of the m
r O state of play tweets before the verdict actually
comes out, it's often coming from I would say, a
place of knowledge or expectation, because he knows the system
a lot better than everyone else. But people think it's opinion.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
Informed.

Speaker 5 (30:55):
It informed opinion, pure opinion with bias.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
No, I don't.

Speaker 5 (31:00):
Yeah, there's no bias. This isn't gonna change the GY's mind.
Like I'm telling you that, I don't look at North
Melbourne and go, well it's North. That's weird. Why would
I do that? Would do this? Might upset people. I
don't care about them enough to have a bias.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
I don't care about club these club's enough to have
a bias towards them more against them. Nor do you
have the power to buy.

Speaker 5 (31:22):
It it means anything anyway, I don't, I genuinely, so
I watched it initially and I thought he I thought, oh,
he's gone. He's gone for.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
Three weeks, and then I watched it back repeatedly, and
Will Falkner in the officely you tend to work, a
friend of the podcast regular at the podcast these days,
did say that he looked.

Speaker 5 (31:44):
I don't know if he did. It was happening really quickly,
and you know, I think Will's.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Played at some level, yes, more cricket anyway, But he's like,
I'm just like, you wouldn't just think put yourself in
his shoes. You wouldn't have He might not have seen
Berry coming in from the side until the absolute last it.
I tend to agree, like he actually genuinely looks like
Luke McDonald can only see the ball ahead. And then
jere Berry makes a quick deviation off his line to

(32:09):
try and get further back into go and try and
get another mark, and then Luke McDonald sees him with
the absolute last second, to the point where it's so
instant he can't even elect to bump.

Speaker 5 (32:18):
He tucks his arm slightly. I don't know if he
elects to bump. It's that quick.

Speaker 3 (32:21):
I actually don't think he has the time to even
make the decision to elect to bump. Everything he did
was reflexive and not even a careless act. That's how
tight and Nick Darcando spoke to Luke McDonald afterwards. He
told us and he said that he literally didn't see him.

Speaker 5 (32:37):
He could not.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
He did not see him in the absolute last second.
So I would be I know, it's a concussion in
the AF only to sort of they wanted to be
shown to be doing something.

Speaker 5 (32:45):
I just think if they were to grade that.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
And make it a reportable action, that would be more
because of the outcome rather than the action, which is
not the spite where people say, I don't think that's
how they operate. There has been a sanction his outcome
over the outcome based, but the reportable nature of it isn't.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
This is what the confusion was around the Zach Merritt
incident with Nick Blakey. Yes, was that you were saying,
and you were very clear on this. No, he's not
gonna get reported. He's going to be fine because he
was a football action and he did that first and
then the contact happened. But everyone gets confused about incidents
like the Paul Curtis one, and everyone thinks, oh well,
this is a legal tackle and he's getting sanctioned because
of the outcome. No, it was determined that it wasn't

(33:25):
legal tackle because of how he pinned the arms and
drove the head into the ground based on the scenario.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
And you can disagree with that and whether it should
be reportable or not, but the AFL thinks it is reportable,
so that the only thing that that's outcome based that honestly,
I think the only thing is the outcome based is
the sanction of how many weeks, But it being reportable
is not outcome based. But if this were to be graded,
I would think that's changed. And that's one of the

(33:50):
first ones I can think of that's outcome based over
the actual action. And I don't think I genuinely, despite
what people will say, don't think we're at that outcome
based point yet. North would have a very good case
of the tribunal if he is. Oh, I think they
get off for the tribunal if it would be great.
And sometimes they grade these just because they know the
AFL knows they'll challenge it and then we'll just see,
let's just have a look. In worst case, they get
their ten grand back and the players free to play.

Speaker 5 (34:13):
I just don't think it's I don't think they'll do it.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Like just last one on this, could there Could he
have done anything else in the situation. That's probably what
the would have been asking as well.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
Could he have done well, that's what they always sorry,
that's what they always ask if the player were to
call them tomorrow and say, what was I supposed to do?
I don't know what else, unless maybe he should have
been a bit more aware of his surroundings. Maybe, but
Barry comes in off an angle. It's not Barry's fault,
but Barry comes in off an angle because he deviates
when he sees the market about to be taken, he
goes back towards to move further to a field to

(34:43):
take maybe contest to Mark and try and get free
for his opponent, for his teammate.

Speaker 5 (34:47):
And McDonald doesn't see it until late. Yeah, I think
it's just a I think there is still room for
forty accidents. And that's what that was.

Speaker 4 (34:55):
One last thing on the whole outcome deciding the result.
Thing that has to play because it plays a factor
in court. You get a biggest sanction in court for
murdering someone, then for manslaughter or for whatever you know.
There are different degrees of murder and all of these things,
a degrees of what happened. Based on what happens to
the victim, a different punishment is levied out.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
It has to be a factor of that.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
I think everyone agrees that it's two binary right now,
and it has to be some nuance. But it has
to play a factor.

Speaker 5 (35:21):
If a crime was committed.

Speaker 4 (35:22):
Yes, yes, And that's the first thing. And that's when
Zach Merritt didn't get cited.

Speaker 3 (35:25):
Not to equate crime to football. Well, I mean those
things have intersected this year, haven't That.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Is that is true, David, last one, Maxie, And what
I'll do is I'll probably give the context first before
so Caltumi reported that Tazzi, when when for their first draft,
will be handed picks one, three, five, seven, nine, eleven,
and thirteens all the odds between one and thirteen, and
then in two years two and three of the build
they get picks five and nine. But in the first

(35:53):
year they must trade four picks, and it was put
that those four picks were five, seven, nine, and thirteen.
So they keep one of one of the three, eleven
and eleven, but they must trade pick five and retain
pick nine in years two and three, and then there's
more nuance around the Draft Value Index repercussions as well,
and as forty percent is the number being thrown around.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
So that's the important part.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
So the question out of that is ahead of Tazzy's entry.
The AFL has clearly learned from past draft concession mistakes
with the Suns and the Giants. Fair or fast?

Speaker 4 (36:25):
I think fair, and it's trying to do the right thing.
The problem is it likes this mechanism of giving picks
you have to trade. It did it with North Melbourne
a couple of years ago. But think about what North
Melbourne did with those into first round commensation picks. I
think was one of them trading for Darcy Tuckey. Yes,
not been great, No, I don't think. I don't remember
what the other one was traded for. Maybe it was
in the Dylan Stevens steal. Things like that. You're not

(36:47):
going to get proper value for where those picks are
when you are forced to trade those.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
Picks because you've lose your leverage.

Speaker 4 (36:53):
Yes, so when Tasmania has pick five, for example, three
years in a row and has to trade it, three
years in a row. You are never getting the actual
value of that pickback, and they're putting this requirement on
there that you can't get more than forty percent of
the draft value index points of pick five back because
ideally what you would do is, on Tasmania, I've got

(37:14):
pick five, I want X out of contract player who's okay,
he'll fill some depth, he'll play on the wings. Sometimes
he's all right, I want that. And pick fourteen, for example,
because the pick's still pretty good, you're downgrading the pick
and getting an okay player, So the team doesn't mind
losing the player, but you can't do that.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
You would have to get back.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
What if you're trading pick seven, you can only get
back pick twenty five, So that's a big down grade
on that pick, and the player is not going to
make up for that gap in pick value. So there
is a very real scenario where Tasmania is given these picks,
is forced to trade them, and then he's not getting
good value for them. He's getting a bunch of okay,
twenty five to twenty eight year old players and maybe

(37:52):
they're good the first couple of years, which is what
the AFL desperately wants that is bad five years down
the road. They're setting up a list that needs to
be good right away but does not have the years
of depth that a bunch of heavy concessions would give them.
So I think they're still a debate on what level
of the forty percent level is going to be at.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Okay, So would you think that's a part of the
solution though, would be tweaking the percentage?

Speaker 4 (38:12):
Yes, I think raising it a little bit. Look, you
don't want it to be one hundred percent. You don't
want it to be saying you can do what you
want because they're going to trade pick seven for pick
nine and a player and it's irrelevant. But doing it
as strictly as it sounds like it's going to be
risks forcing Tasmania into a bunch of bad trades which
teams can take advantage of. So those teams just happen
to get better because they made the right trades and

(38:33):
Tasmania is put in an awkward list.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, and then that would be interesting to get the
feedback of the other eighteen clubs as well, because the
other eight en clubs subjectively, well look at that and think, oh,
it's probably not a bad result. But if they care
about the future of the competition and seeing Tasmania succeed,
then that'll be interesting.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
Which is the problem with a system where the AFL
has to run this by the clubs because the clubs
have vested interests in their own success and other Casmanians
a bit.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
To play out there in front. That is the end
of Fair of Faces. Our time to check the postbox
on the.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Fox Foody podcast, It's time to open up the mail bag.
Have a question for the panel tweetess every Monday morning
at Fox Footy.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
Yes, Postman Pat and his black of my Cat. Yes,
we're coming. Toby a fan of Postman pattern. Surely you've
got some ABC.

Speaker 5 (39:17):
They wouldn't play that anymore, would they.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
No, but you get some on VHS tap.

Speaker 5 (39:21):
You know what I don't like.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
They've they've like upgraded the cartoon quality, the animation quality.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Bananas and pajamas is the main.

Speaker 5 (39:29):
Yeah, like it's no, that was actual people in suits.

Speaker 3 (39:32):
Yeah, back in the day, whereas the Postman Pat was
like in the last cartoon, Wait, well I thought there
was a real banana to.

Speaker 5 (39:38):
Tell you that they were like Postman Pat was more
just nice cartoon.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
And now it's like really like up to date cartoon.
It just loses some of the magic. Do you I
think most kids are just watching Blue.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah, No, Toby's favor is Blue. But Poor Patrol is
a very close second of the ABC.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
So it's free Disney probably, yes, bring back Johnson and Friends.
You that's that was with That was with the big
green thing, the hot water bottle and the pink elephant,
the big Green bedroom sort of like toy story pre
toy story. Yeah, kid's room.

Speaker 5 (40:11):
But was that animated it?

Speaker 2 (40:13):
It was?

Speaker 3 (40:15):
I think it was Suits. Yeah, I'm on the Wikipedia pages. Yes,
the television program it got canceled, yes, all that how
much people loved it.

Speaker 5 (40:23):
It got canceled. A TV reference in there when finished Suits.

Speaker 4 (40:27):
The second last season in nineteen ninety Film Australia's technique
involved a large, oversized bedroom set and adult actors in
full body.

Speaker 5 (40:35):
So it was full but that's like now, I know
that's weird, but like I just what to.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
Build a giant bedroom. I just enjoy that. The real people,
it's just got more heart to it. Postmon patals are
with real people. But you know, the cartoon quality just
seemed a bit more. It just seemed a bit more
authentic and lived in back in the day, back in
back in my Alfred was the water bottle? Oh yeah
there was. There was a Yes, not that.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Booking.

Speaker 4 (41:07):
Just tapes from the ABC had the exact same intro
and all of them.

Speaker 5 (41:10):
And yes, they're so it's so good. Oh just hitting
me like really hard.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
Talking about me.

Speaker 5 (41:16):
No, Alfred, Oh yes, yes, Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (41:22):
It was like a Chinese show that they dubbed and
it was like a magic dragon and stuff.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
It was crazy.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Anyway, extraordinary mail bag. Oh yeah, the postbox. Oh, this
is your fault message box.

Speaker 4 (41:36):
This is a very different segment to that. This is
where we talk about the question from John Freed, who
asks why did Port Adelaide's much faunted midfield trio not
start in the Midfield Showdown is the biggest game on
their calendar, yet only Butters started the first center Bounce
alongside Bergman and Drew.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
I don't think, yeah, I don't think they often are
in the same center Bounce. Very you have to check
the numbers. I don't think the three of them, Butters,
wrote and harn Francis are often in the same midfield
because I think Ken really likes to use Willem Drew
through there, Ollie Wines clearly still plays his best football
on the ball, and Bergman I think King he said
last night, attended more center bounces against Adelaide than he

(42:15):
had in his entire previous ninety games.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
Beforehand eighty two percent of the Showdown, equal with Butters
and most on the team. Only other other game of
attended center bounces at all this year was against Collingwood
and Round one.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
And then Rosy's moved a half back in the past
few weeks and that has worked quite well. And Rosie
won the Showdown Metal Orbit somewhat controversially because Port Adelaide lost. Yes, yeah,
they've got It's not I understand those three players the
biggest stars, but Ken Hinckley has consistently rotated other players
through that nix.

Speaker 4 (42:47):
Which is important because the best teams in the best
midfields have depth where you can rotate through six, seven,
eight guys, and they played different roles. Will and Drew
plays a very different role to a Butters. You need
you can't have three attack focus midfielders. That's what Porter's
had in the past, and then they've had no defensive output,
and then they've been torn apart going the other way.
So that's why you don't just put your best players

(43:07):
in it. You can't just look at the A for
twenty six ratings and go, I'm going to put my
best players in there, especially because those ratings are.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
Weird, right, They're better than they were.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
One more one from Jason X, who asks should there
be an automatic free kick for deceptive actions?

Speaker 3 (43:22):
For flopping for a free? You know, you know, blackmailing
someone on the field, deceptive actions right, white whitewashing the action?

Speaker 5 (43:33):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (43:34):
Is that like when someone sets up a game with
three card Monty and the forward po Sarah Jones said
on The Giants Cats that Jimmy Cameron was lining up
on the Giants place said ye on your ear when
you're like Toby, Is that a deceptive action? Well, a
little bit, I suppose, trying to trick him and to
think he's still playing for them.

Speaker 4 (43:51):
Flopping for a free even if there is a small free.
Jason X says, pay it against him if he deceptively exaggerates,
but also if a player after a free is paid
to a team mate, for example saying give me the ball,
not him, hoping for a fifty penalty.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
Things like that.

Speaker 4 (44:05):
Surely that gets I don't think so milked in a
very and then those calls happen and they're stupid and
then we hate them, right but much.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
I think that's slightly over the top. I can't I
can't say about coming in anytime soon.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
But thank you.

Speaker 5 (44:16):
It's like Twitter, I've been the X.

Speaker 4 (44:18):
But I do like the idea because it would be funny.
That's off of the mail day this week.

Speaker 5 (44:23):
That's it?

Speaker 2 (44:23):
Thank you, Kevin.

Speaker 7 (44:24):
Oh, Kevin, Kevin.

Speaker 5 (44:39):
Yeah, we just played it wet you said it and
I forgot we had the sting.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (44:43):
Yeah, because you're listening factually correct.

Speaker 5 (44:46):
I don't listen to this podcast, would you? Yeah? That's
that can be the tagline?

Speaker 2 (44:50):
What's the pitch you've just opened up? Next to the
Who's that?

Speaker 3 (44:53):
Neil Roberts on his returns Ring Tastaker in nineteen seventy three.
So yes. Another fun part.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
About this book is that there are three different sections
of photos.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
Yeah, just to fill out the pages.

Speaker 5 (45:04):
Used to love those bits of books when I was
a kid. So you go to the bookshop. That was
a bit Yeah, I opened up.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
Me too, and also gives you a little break. It
seems like you're cheating because you're getting ahead of the book.
You're reading really quickly. It's like easy, easy pages.

Speaker 4 (45:17):
But like, why is there a photo of Tony Lockett
taking a mark against Richmond?

Speaker 5 (45:20):
And what does that? It was a pocket of greatness.
He's a great It was a great player.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
In the pocket sometimes Jim Stein's playing for Victoria former.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
If you do get a chance last week to listen
back to the pockets of greatness from my last week, what.

Speaker 5 (45:35):
Happened, I'll send it to you. Okay, can you just
send it to me? I don't want to. I don't
want to give you the satisfaction.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
Also don't want to spoil it. Thanks, Well, what's going
on here?

Speaker 4 (45:44):
I've got to find roll I lost for I was
looking through the photo.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Sorry next to your Kevin Sheedy, of.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
Course, we know gives a lot of wisdom.

Speaker 4 (45:51):
Well well experienced. Let me correct myself. There are a
lot of words written down that Kevin Sheedy apparently staid.
Here are some of them. Yes, you can learn something
from the Japanese tourists in Australia across. They're smart. They
take photographs all the time. They go bang bang bang, photo, photo, photo.

(46:11):
They say, hey, look at that.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
And what do you know? They've got something.

Speaker 4 (46:15):
So I go around the world taking photos and bingo.
I don't know what they mean when I take them sometimes,
but I do when I study them later. They make
you think, which takes you back to Peter the Great
of Russia of mine. Like Peter, you don't sit on
your bum and feel sorry for yourself. You go out
and find things and bring them back to your own

(46:36):
country and study them and see if you can use
them or adapt them. That's what I learned from Peter
the Great.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Jesus Christ's that is as so he's gone from Japanese
tourists to Peter the Great.

Speaker 4 (46:52):
Peter the Great, of course, the Sara of Russia from
six Geode two, and then emperor until his death.

Speaker 5 (46:57):
Emperor. All right, that sounds like a healthy democracy.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Well, it's far better for you.

Speaker 4 (47:04):
In the seventeenth century. I did Russian Revolutions in our
high school.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
I don't remember.

Speaker 5 (47:09):
I think probably they didn't have a democratic period, did
they were? They still went to the polls.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
There was a bit in that subject where you know
the song by Boney m about rasputing.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
Yes, we had study the song.

Speaker 5 (47:20):
Oh really, yeah? Was it Dent.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
It goes about three minutes.

Speaker 5 (47:25):
No, not the length of the song, the lyrical, not
the length of the It's.

Speaker 4 (47:30):
Quite a historically accurate song. Ra Ra Raspute, lover of
the Russian Queen. He was a cat that really was
gone Rah rah respute in Russia's greatest love machine.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
It was a shame how he carried on.

Speaker 5 (47:39):
It was a banger too.

Speaker 4 (47:40):
And then there was stuff abouthim getting poisoned, and he
went in a lake and then he came back to
life always.

Speaker 5 (47:45):
Kevin doesn't talk about that.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
I'll see if he does.

Speaker 5 (47:47):
I haven't read everything, wouldn't put it past. That might
be in the upcoming book.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
Peter was Oh, he organized a well ordered police state.

Speaker 5 (47:55):
It doesn't surprise me. Still this Max is a kid
like Victoria.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Max's Kevin Sheedy voiceover is slowly becoming no on the
sort of the media watch voiceover kind of areas a
little bit?

Speaker 5 (48:08):
Is it really?

Speaker 2 (48:09):
I just I like it. It's it's got a real
brand now, I think the Max voice over.

Speaker 5 (48:13):
Then does Crash credit come on to the show or not?

Speaker 3 (48:17):
If you want?

Speaker 2 (48:19):
He's very good at saying yes to a lot of things.

Speaker 4 (48:21):
Crash yeah, maybe does you want to talk about the
I p l getting posts.

Speaker 5 (48:24):
Doesn't so much about the op There isn't that much
about the cricket.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
Does he know anything about footy's Yeah, yeah, it's Jared.

Speaker 5 (48:35):
Yeah. You so want to, well, I want to.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
I know, maybe Crash can close the show. Let's forget
to the tips and cups. First, Gold Coast and Hawthorne
on Thursday night in Darwin, Mitch Hallahan cup up for grabs.
Hawthorne have traveled to Northern Territory on Monday. The sons
have obviously stayed in Darn for a long time. Rather large.
There's night game has just turned in two.

Speaker 4 (49:01):
They're enjoying it. I will not be watching this game.
I'll be able to keep of.

Speaker 5 (49:06):
Course you will.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
That's exciting.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
Billboards, Billboards the nightclub. Well it's a nightclub, Russell Street.

Speaker 5 (49:17):
It's a nightclub. Yeah, you know, a couple of you're
going to Billboards.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
First time in my life for everything.

Speaker 5 (49:23):
I don't think of. Oh, I don't know if I've
got you're reacting like someone who might have gone to
the just.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
It's going to sold like two point eight stars on
Google something like that, or maybe three point one.

Speaker 5 (49:36):
Anyway, what's who.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Wins out of Gold Coast and Hawthorne.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
I would tipping two point four. Yeah, Jesus, that's worse
than thes that. I'll tell you what salmonella are both
of those places. I'll go for the Gold Coast Sons.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
Yeah, I think I think he's my logic. I think
the Bulldogs are better than Hawthorne, and Go Go has
already beat the Bulldogs, so I think they'll beat Hawthorne.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Two, right, Sidney and Carlton Ricky Mott, cup up for grabbing.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
Martin, Yes, Yes, the cup of life will be given
to one of these team seasons.

Speaker 5 (50:08):
These two big ones, Swans and Blues couple, Live and
Ship bangs, living.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
The local please please. The best pre chorus of maybe
that's the intro that they actually take you close off
and dancing in the rain, the build up of tension
before the chorus hits. It's an incredible part.

Speaker 5 (50:27):
He's a good operator, Ricky.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
Yes, know what he's.

Speaker 4 (50:29):
Doing playing Rod Labor in November?

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Is he really?

Speaker 3 (50:33):
Actually?

Speaker 4 (50:34):
I Cat and I were driving back from here yesterday
and billboards which we saw a billboard of.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Course, Ricky Martin with Who's the She was a judge
on the.

Speaker 4 (50:43):
Voice Rita Aura is like the Aura is the support act.

Speaker 5 (50:49):
Who is thinks about Rita Aura.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Maybe maybe we could do a special podcast from the
from Billboards outside the Ricky Ricky Martin.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
I would go, that'll be fun.

Speaker 5 (51:00):
I actually would go, it's great.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
I know, like three songs, but like what, I'm sure
there are the three?

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (51:05):
Good?

Speaker 5 (51:05):
He know you only know three songs? He to get
through the other ones? Can he do some covers?

Speaker 3 (51:09):
He does some covers just to pad out the It's
like photos, do you do a cover just to pad
out the run at your back? Like the shitty book?

Speaker 5 (51:17):
Yeah, that's what I mean.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
Like, you know what, do you want him to color.

Speaker 5 (51:21):
Up there? Because Dan.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
Anyway, et cetera.

Speaker 5 (51:29):
Uh, Sydney Carton.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
Sydney, Sydney at home? Maybe yeah, I kind serious?

Speaker 2 (51:37):
They win this?

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Yes, you know you are right.

Speaker 5 (51:39):
You're right, mom tiving Carlson just because I want to.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
That's a good reason to tip them.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Collingwood and Adelaide Ben Crocker Cup.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
These games are always close, and Adelaide.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Gets screwed, yes, the last two times, like four in
the last five games between these two. Inside of Isaac
Rankin fifty yards, Jordan Dawstring. Yes, the Frank Kiggins.

Speaker 4 (52:04):
Yes, I think there's probably some other ones. Will forkn
would know them well.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
The fork is actually asked for this day off because
he's got a lot of coming over Australia.

Speaker 4 (52:13):
The reverse gather around, gather around the mcg yes to
see Collingwood win Collingwood.

Speaker 5 (52:20):
That's it, we both do that.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
Tip just broke for.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
A minute for the Paul Coollery itis, your favorite, a
man who actually thrives off his being his cup.

Speaker 4 (52:32):
I it's not quite at GWS levels of the g
WS playing Gelong, but Likelid, I don't. I don't like
this game for some reason, even though Loong has a
pretty good record against Port there, including the qualifying final
last year.

Speaker 5 (52:44):
Yes eighty it was almost eighty points, wasn't that was
out of reach.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
By the second quarter? Yes, Geelong, Geelong.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
The Giants and the dock is for the Tom Sheridan Cup.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
Another man who would love the cup in his honor.

Speaker 5 (52:56):
Giants, Giants, Dogs and Bombers Mark Alvy Cup.

Speaker 4 (53:02):
Again, first big real test for the Bombers in a
little while. So it's probably some Sanzac to aspos.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
But I go the Dogs. Yeah, Live and exclusive on
Fox Footing. What's the reasoning as well behind the two
four fifteen games or the two Twilight Saturday games and
one Saturday Night get a good question.

Speaker 5 (53:18):
Maybe Seven's taking one of them in a certain state.
I don't know how it works.

Speaker 4 (53:22):
There's no overlap between what portcats and Jennibe's three or
the four fifteens are they?

Speaker 3 (53:26):
Yeah, that's very odd. Maybe we just wanted to give
the Bombers and the Dogs the spotlight.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Maybe Richmond and North Melbourne another Fox Footy exclusive the
Biggie Nuance Cup up for grabs.

Speaker 4 (53:36):
Yeah, grow great career he had, Yes delisted after a
year of being traded.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
I think North should be better than this.

Speaker 5 (53:45):
Interesting.

Speaker 4 (53:45):
Yeah, so I've had North higher in the power rankings
for a while because their percentage is better.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
I think they're a better team.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
I've had a very good last three weeks they have, but.

Speaker 4 (53:53):
Richmond is three and six, the same as the Swans,
which is quite remarkable. I still think North, if there
are any sort of of what their list says they
should be, should win this game.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Yeah, I'll go North to Brisbane and Melbourne for the
Joel McDonald Cup. Entrepreneur.

Speaker 4 (54:09):
This game is weirdly close. Last year from memory, I
think it was like a Thursday night game Melbourne was
up there at the Gabba.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
And then the year before that the lights went out.

Speaker 5 (54:18):
Yes no, yes, no rival channels commentator.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
Well, we don't have to listen to him anymore.

Speaker 5 (54:25):
So is his son marrying Yankee David?

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Yes, Brisbane?

Speaker 4 (54:30):
Sorry a woman, Yes, I just I just wanted to
make sure a certain repute.

Speaker 5 (54:38):
Yes, he always referred to the same way by the
Herald Son. Oh weird.

Speaker 3 (54:41):
I wonder why what website would that be referencing David what? No, No,
the way she's described Australia's most anyway subscribes.

Speaker 4 (54:51):
Speaking Australia speaks club that win the podcast that we're on.

Speaker 5 (54:55):
It's not true Brisbane Brisbane.

Speaker 4 (54:58):
But what does Melbourne of a bunch of Sunday three
twenty games coming up?

Speaker 3 (55:02):
That's just the natural sort of spot. Why did Stefan
want to show Melbourne so much?

Speaker 2 (55:06):
And then West Coast take on Kilda? Lots of TV's
and true for the bo Wilks slash bow Master Cup.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
That's not true, they're away. It's Kilder. If there any
sort of serious goes to West Coast and wins this game.

Speaker 5 (55:19):
Yes, St. Kilda.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Well, now he's Robert.

Speaker 5 (55:24):
Did just say that you should keep clicking back to
Fox that? Yeah, I'm just because I don't know if
I need to do it, Like if he needs to appear,
does he need to appear? Does it mean to him?

Speaker 3 (55:37):
Does it mean to him to because he has a
very distinctive speaking style and I'm just captured by it. Yeah,
So if he was to appear on the podcast, would
that be disrespect because I have a lot of respect
for him and what he's done.

Speaker 4 (55:48):
I think you've put that forward. Are you saying you
don't have any respect for Michael Kaine?

Speaker 3 (55:52):
Well, I don't, Michael Kine. I don't think it's any
water off his back. I don't know, Robert crash cratic,
what the sort of how it's you.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
Would have caught him to get him on the line.

Speaker 5 (56:01):
I've spoken to him before. He's a great and he's
been great. Uh huh, it's good, Okay, all right, well
here he is. Yeah, we'll just see the door.

Speaker 3 (56:13):
Folly work. You can't read open the door here, couldn't
reach that they step step.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Crash, Good of you to make up so much a
time quickly as well straight down from Brisbane to join
us in the Fox Footy pocast. Would you like to
see us out?

Speaker 5 (56:29):
You will keep picking back to foxfooty dot com.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
Do it?

Speaker 7 (56:32):
Are you?

Speaker 1 (56:34):
Thanks Jude, Thanks for listening to the Fox Footy podcast.
Like what you hear? Hit subscribe and rate us on
your preferred podcast platform and for the best footy news
and views, catch fox Footy on channel five oh four.
Keep clicking back to foxfooty dot com dot are you