1120 - Games That Define Their Console

Kevin and Justin talk about Gaming with Kids, The Game That Defined Each Console, Tales From Tyria.

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@TheKevinMiller
@JustinWorsham
Kevin on insta @unlockableman

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
One one one one. Oh no, it's already happening. Hello, and

(00:27):
welcome to the gamber Lamp Podcast.I am your host, just fortune.
You are making that noise, right, I beg you that one. It's
the rust. It's all the rust. There's lots of rust going on around
guys. There's so much. I'lloh, okay, all right, I'm
gonna figure that out. I canfigure this out. I'm smart enough to

(00:49):
know how to figure this out.We are having a wonderful night tonight.
We were chatting, as you know, we haven't had a podcast and probably
a month now, and so we'rehanging out and they were like, hey,
let's go live. Well look overat twitch on the twitch box and
there's no sound. Yeah, goingout to the twitch box. So we
spent some time figuring that out.Decided that it was a bios issue on

(01:11):
my motherboard because nineteen o three cameout for the Windows ten this week and
I did not update my Dell biosand earlier I was like, I'll skip
that is not a big deal,but now that was a problem. So
we're not able to twitch us.So we're like, we'll go over to
discord and people are just they canlisten to us, yes, while we're

(01:34):
doing this live, and we're like, this will be the solution. But
now for some reason, there arephantom noises coming from me. It's because
in discord. And this is whyMatt was smarter than us when he was
explaining this by Justin Warshaw. I'myour host with me as always is the
one, the only the Kevin Millerdot com. I knew you did something
there, and I should have justdone that. I'm just gonna I just

(01:57):
got to execute my OCD. No, I knew there was a thing.
I was like, no, I'llcover while you did that. Yeah,
and that's what I should have saidfor you. So anyway, Matt was
worried about because we just said Ihave a separate UH channel potentiometer on our
mixer. We knew what a potentiometerwas, yes, but did not did
not know if I figure out twitch. He he probably said to do that

(02:22):
about nine times, and I thinkI rolled my eyes for seven of them.
Yeah, he said, if yougo to your PC understand you don't
understand, Matt, we have aboard will mute it on our end.
And what's funny is that, likeright now, this is the part that's
weird about it. Oh, it'shere's why I know why. Okay,
go, it's because the sounds,not the voice chat exact sounds that come

(02:46):
from that's what he was trying todiscord, are coming from my computer.
But what I did was I wentinto the settings for me on discord and
I turned those sounds. Now peoplecan come and go. In fact,
if somebody wants to leave the CloroxLounge right now on our discisses, and
we will not hear anything. Listen, we haven't done a show. And
over see, we didn't hear that. They're bouncing around in there. This
is what they've come back to.But now here's what's going on in there.

(03:08):
They're dead. Oh, they're dead. They're listening to us Talknesota Maxwell.
Yeah. But oh, justin howlong has it been since we've done

(03:30):
feel like three weeks at least.Oh no, we have not done one
in October? Okay, and uh, but if we did one in September,
maybe do I need to go backand check the logs. It's probably
not important, probably not. Imean, so much has changed. So
here's what I started doing. Thelast time. I was like, you
know, I'm gonna start taking notesof all the things I want to talk
about so that I don't have toin the moment. Go oh my gosh,

(03:51):
there were so many things I wantedto say. Here Arember eleventh was
the last episode. It's been overa month. Yeah too soon. Um,
here are all the things I havebeen Wow, you've got a log.
I've got a lot of things thatwe can talk about. Include.
Do we talked about the PS fiveNope? We have we talked about the
Lucid dream I had, Nope.We talk about people's reaction to the arena

(04:13):
at keynote nope? Free to playgames on PlayStation? I don't think no,
because they're all in my log.These are all things. Here's I'll
give you this so that we couldget into your actual fabulous go ahead.
Is that I actually had some timeto play some video games in the time
that we have. That was gonnabe my first question. Oh really yeah,
So how is this possible? Didyou murder one of your children?

(04:34):
No? I did in football.So the other thing is I think the
last time we spoke is that nowall of my sons have purchased PlayStations and
televisions, so we have three PlayStations. We discussed that last three televisions,
and for a very brief moment,I bought three different copies of Madden and

(04:55):
we spent a solid weekend. Yeah, playing a franchise mode. Why did
you say, for for a briefmoment you bought three copies? Did you
return them? No? No,for I was started to say something else
I said, I interrupted myself tomake it confusing. I got it.
So it was like two trains,one track, Yes, got it,
fourteen passengers ker plunk in a puddle. The reason I wanted to go to

(05:16):
Omaha, it was the wish thatwas so funny. Don't play the camera,
by the way, we're not twitching. I just want to go look
at it there. So anyway,um they they were so excited to playing

(05:41):
Madden, and so we set upthis franchise mode. This has been a
dream of mine since I first gavebirth to a child. And I mean,
watch my wife in nervous energy doall of the work. Yeah.
Well, um so anyway, motherand fatherhood. So it had a great
weekend and then this was This wasback in twenty seventeen. This was the
last time we did I'm sorry inSeptember eleven, twenty seventeen, and uh,

(06:05):
it was a great weekend and weplayed Madden. It was so much
fun. And then they changed theirmind. And what does that mean?
One hundred and fifty dollars on MaddenFootball for nothing? What does it mean
they change their mind? They justthere was another game that they got into
the statch. Yeah, I noticedthat they're all playing Overwatch. Now they're

(06:28):
black to playing Fortnite. Yeah,because the map reset. So yeah,
they're back into that. Yeah,it's a new map. So but aren't
you um, I mean, won'tthey come back around again? Won't they
come back to Madden? I don'tknow. And it's the sole thing in
the middle of the football season.You don't think one good game will inspire
them, No, because now nowit's now the dynamic is shifting in that

(06:49):
now it's I'm I'm going to bethe father who's going to force my children
in a weekend that they like toplay video games. Now, come out
of their rooms and sit and watchat least three hours of a rams game
with their father. Uh so that'swhat you're using your dad points on is
actual real football? Real football?I don't want to spend it on Madden.
No, it's not about not spendingon Madden. I mean I spent

(07:10):
to Natalie had a work thing onone of on Friday night. I think
it was did she work it?And she did tell me how she worked
it? She was I can't rememberthat lady lady's name. So anyway,
Uh, right, Wright, wherehow you work it? Flip it back
and reverse it? Uh? I'mtwerking in a chair. But nobody could
see what I could see if thenobody is being robbed stupid bios and I'm

(07:34):
What was great is that we hada great comedic visual where I'm like six
inches shorter than you because I loweredmy chair. It was the best radio
week possibly. Can talk about visualsmore, please, there's so much have
an award, so much purple?They um, So we played Overwatch.
I played. They wanted to whatdid you play? I love Overwatch is

(07:57):
one of my many topics, andI played a little. When did I
play? No? What? Who? Who did you play? I played?
Oh? My favorite is the guywho turns into line. Oh yeah
yeah, yeah, yah yeah therobot. As soon as I stumbled on
him, yeah, I was likeI'm in yeah and then I started.
It's funny because we would do it, and I think we didn't play against
real people. We just played againstAI relations and stuff like, and other

(08:18):
people could join us, just likethe waves. Those are like the Halloween
thing. No, well, Idon't know. We were in different maps
and then we had to escort something. But all of the people that we
were playing against were supposedly AI.Interesting, why did you do that mode?
I think they wanted me to notbe killed immediately. Oh, you
would have done fine, Okay,you're you would have been fine. So

(08:39):
anyway, I played it, anduh, when I became bashion, I
started actually getting some points and likeit was. So it's so funny because
even though I literally have been playinggames with my sons their entire lives,
they have now they feel like they'vediverged from me, and they think they
think they're better than they after you. If you were to ask them if

(09:01):
they thought, I think they bothwould say, I know, I am
they're wrong because I know. That'swhy I'm like, you should have played
regular Overwatch against regular humans, becauseyou would The game is built to be
balanced, and as an experienced gamer, you would have been able to walk
right in and just be fine.Not I mean said, I played Overwatch

(09:22):
with your son and he's quite good. They're both very good. I'm not
saying he's not good, but Idon't you're not bad. That's what's funny
is that I don't mind it becausethey like to feel good about themselves.
Who doesn't, right, So itwas just this thing where I got like
the highlight or something. Yeah,they go like it was so great because
I could hear him in their bedroomlike oh, Dad got to oh.

(09:43):
And it was so funny because Iknow I've said this to them when they
were younger, but they were like, good job, Dad, Yes,
a good job man, you buddy, look at you getting out there some
kills, look at you. Andthen there was this great would at the
end of the matches they would shoutout their badges and be like two gold,

(10:03):
one silver, right for what Idon't know. I don't know,
but they're just gold, one silver. All that means is that they got
better in that category than themselves.That's all that means. I didn't know
what it meant. At one time. I got three gold, two silver
to bronze or something like of courseyou're a player. So I just was
like, no. It took mea while to get there was it until
I really gotta figured it out.And then I was playing it and then

(10:24):
I saw they said, I go, oh, I got a bronze,
I got a silver, and Igo, I got three gold two silver
to bronze. And I got tohear the positive what and then they and
then they say it like I can'thear them right right because it's all between
bedrooms. We're yelling in our ownhouse. And they say, they go,
wow, Dad, you you're you'repretty good. It's the AI.

(10:46):
It's great. It's so funny.What level difficulty medium? I think it
was medium? Make sense? Andthen we played Fortnite because they wanted me
to play the new Fortnite with them. And how is the new map?
It's fine? I don't does itlook the same or makes it new?
It's all new. It's it's awhole new map. It's a whole new
map in my opinion. But Iwouldn't. It's like got water in it

(11:07):
now and there's boats. Does itlook better? I know it looked like
it looks like Minecraft. No,No, it's not Minecraft always Minecraft bad
for Minecraft build up for wolves andsleep there for two nights. Kids,
these days, the point of buildinga steel wool dude, just shoot it

(11:30):
up. My day. Fortnite wastwo weeks Shakespeare Shakespeare, wis Beaver up?
Oh go, that's funny from HamletAnd it was just and it was
so funny because in Fortnite they areleaps and bounds quit. It's because they're
kids, right, Like, wheneverI would play that anything, very rarely

(11:54):
am I the dad who would holdback when I, you know, play
anything with my kids, right,I mean sure, if I was playing
full blown tackle football, I'm notgonna chop blow over. Yeah. I'm
toucherment in games obviously, Yeah,yeah. I mean listen, we had
a heated game of flag football onetime and with the four of us and
let's just say both Dannylion just ranover some kids. It was not our

(12:16):
proudest moment. You had your wife, so it wasn't he was a stosterone
that was in your way. Itwas just straight up tired of your shades
versus adults, let's do this,and it was we just occasionally need to
put you back in your place andremind you that we are three times your
age. So anyway, they wereboth against me and it was just them

(12:39):
taking turns killing me and uh,And it was just great because it's the
closest I think I'll come in mylife to knowing what it's like to be
a wounded mouse being played with byaccount Like it was at some point why
I don't play fortnight. It wasjust like they were like they were at
one point I had to stop.I had to pair it them by saying
stop like in a I was sayingstop fighting on whoever who gets to kill

(13:01):
me next? Like they were havinga fight like it's my turn, no
get away done, And if oneof them shot me and they're like,
well no, I just lowered hishealth. I just made it easier.
I'm just helping you, just loweringyourself like that was suppost happening. And
then I kind of son, Ijust made it easy. It's just slow

(13:24):
health. Now, it's he's justone shot kill, one shot kill.
And then they spent like the firstten minutes of us playing like I'm going
around. I wish I could havehad a video of this because it was
like my father playing so calm withus back in the day. It was
like me wandering around and I askedyou, like, wait, which is
better? Orange? Your purple?But gray is not as good as blue,
right, and then there and thenthey just kept like basically they found

(13:48):
a way to get legendary everything ontheir weapons. So most of mine were
purple and purple legendary. Legendary isthe gold, he's gold, that would
be my guest. That's pretty standard. That's how it is in UM,
both in Guilders and in Destiny.Those are the rankings. So then they
so every time they would get closeto me, they started they would kill
me the only shot. I hadbetter guns. It's the same thing with

(14:09):
battle Front too, It's the samedeal. That's what I wanted. I
wanted to but I here's the thingI decided as the guy who may or
may not have allegedly stiff armed myson in a game of familial tackle football
in his own backyard, I neverdid that, to be clear, I
never did that. But what honestlyhappened in this game of flat backyard flag

(14:30):
football, but just in our owninner family, was that they would blitz
us, right, and so wewould have to throw the ball real quick.
And so when you're running, oneof them would be playing safety to
play the pass right, and theywould come up foolishly on somebody four times
their size to try to go afterthe ball, and you're looking at the
ball just running. You just plowover a kid. Yeah, of course,

(14:52):
my perph role isn't that big,right, Yeah, And so you
do that a couple of times thatyou learn to be a little more like
aware, like when you're looking aroundtrying to catch because they're not. Then
they're still goal minded. Oh gosh, because I think your youngest son is
a bit like my boy. Wewere playing um Plants versus Zombies Welcome to
Naborville or Battle for Naborville, thenew one, and so he wants to

(15:16):
play in the like free open area, wants us to play against each other,
and so I go off and bea pirate and whatever, and he's
a plant mushroom and so I've comeat him and I get his health down
to ten and he hits pause inresponse and disappears, and then he's laughing

(15:37):
like he beat me at something.I'm like, I know, because you're
seven. If it went the otherway, you'd be furious, absolutely furious.
But then I go I look atthe screen, I'm like, hey,
jokes on you When you did that, I saw that I counted as
a kill and he's like no.So then I finally laid into him on
a kill and the screen comes upand had said that I had killed him
four times already, and I'm like, oh, so they saw you coming.

(16:03):
When you're taking damage from somebody andyou respond, you get you get
the kill well, and it wasall worth it because they started they would
do Jack would do that. You'reright about the younger stud So what would
happen is if I got killed?That was an advantage that I had because
they gave me so little credit.I could hover in oh the high point,
yeah, and then shoot him down. How many kills it? Did
you take them down at all?Oh? Yeah? Yeah, I think

(16:26):
it was. I mean we playedfor almost an hour and a half because
there was a playground I think orsomething, and I got fifty or something
like that. But they definitely smokedme. It wasn't like it's one of
the it's just the three of you, just the same, it's each other.
Did you play the real game?Because I wanted it to be more
of us, and if it waseverybody like they wouldn't have it. There
would be no interaction they would bedoing. There can't be in a squad.

(16:48):
I guess that's apex where you're ina squad. Well, you could
get in a four person squad.But I still think like then, I'm
then I'm frustrating them, Like it'sfun for them to kill their dad.
It's fun for them to play withme like a wounded mouth, right,
But I don't know that. Ithink you're just back day. Why are
you doing this? You're a gooddad. They love calling me nube and
all this stuff. And then butI'm telling you, Kevin, our last

(17:10):
twenty minutes on them because I finallyfigured out I didn't have to really improve
the weapons, but I just figuredout what the strengths of them were and
how how I could use them forwhat I was capable of. And then
I just it's just a matter becauseno matter how quick their reaction times are,
yeah, they're still stupid. Yeahthere's no way that they're eleven year

(17:30):
old and eight year old brain issuperior to my forty year old brain that
has been playing games since longer thantelling you you could even take the gaming
out of it. I'm just saying, like I will, you're a company,
and then I just I started gettingthem, and then Jack had to
start responding after I killed me,because he'd have to swoop in. And
then they would think they were soclever because I would be in a sniper

(17:52):
battle with Jacob and and then Jackwould come and flank me and just shoot
me with a shotgun or something,and it was just it was that.
But it was fun, I reallyI did. I had a good time
playing with them, But I'm stillthe salt on the wound is burning from
the massive money that I threw.Did you are they discs? No?

(18:12):
You did not buy three digital downloads. Why didn't you get optical discs?
Because I thought, I'm call themthat now because it makes me feel it
feels clinical when you say optical discs. Optical disc yeah, because you can't
call them blue razor DV No,you can. It just makes it feel
like, you know, like it'san optical it's an optical disc. I
like it because it's it's an actualeye that reads them like cyclops. Oh

(18:36):
really yeah, yeah, it's justa one one right now if you're inside
a PlayStation, No, is thatwhere we are anyway? Which would be
working? Why did you download thembecause I just we wanted to play them.
Like, here's the other part Igot, you not have stores I
bought. I bought the digital downloadbecause I know it's a game that sorry,

(18:56):
something fell from the ceiling and itscared me. I bought the dig
download because I like that. Iknow that it's a game like I'm not
going to be able to return Man, football isn't a game that you're going
to be able to take back atthe UNI because it's worth like three bucks.
So I see, I see.So I got to digital download.
And then when we were putting Ithink setting up one of the PlayStations for
a while. Jacob could play mygames on his PlayStation, but jack couldn't.

(19:19):
So I'm like, oh, justbuy it on Jackson. Then we're
good. And then that's when Ifigured out, oh no, I got
three different profiles. Now PlayStation's gotme by the waios francios. Yeah,
and they are hitting me with sometapatillo all up in Because now, had
you bought discs, you could havereturned them. Now that you understand that
your kid, I could have probablyreturned them for less. I would have

(19:40):
because I would have had to buya pre owned in order to be able
to return it for full credit.It's pronounced pronede. Yeah. That My
son is talking about wanting a switchand I had to explain to him today.
I was like, no, youcan't get that with your twenty dollars
Target gift card from your birthday.He's like, no, no, no,
a switch. It's got the blueand the red handles. And I'm

(20:02):
like, yeah, yeah, it'slike a three hundred dollar thing. What
I'm like, yeah, yeah,it's like only know you which way own?
Jack like, oh, the oppositeof that is when they save up
to buy one hundred dollars TV andI gave him a discount on the PlayStation.
They ended up spending about two hundredbucks for a two hundred and forty
dollars PlayStation, and uh so Jacksaid. He goes, yeah, next

(20:23):
thing, I'm gonna just save upfor a DS nice And I was like
okay, and he goes, dad, look up how much it is.
I go, no, he's whatdo you mean? I said, you
have a laptop. I go,you have a phone that's not connected.
But he has a f I said, you look it up, you figure
it out. Yeah, and helooks it up and he was like,
do you know what emotion those sticksare? I goes like, oh no,
He's asking how much I go.I don't know, like two hundred
bucks. He's like, what thatlittle thing? Why would somebody pay that?

(20:48):
I go because it's got a tonof games. You can walk around
with it. He goes, wheream I gonna go? Then? Why
do you want it? Exactly?When you have a PlayStation in your room?
Right, where do you eat?Year old? You're fine? Yes,
sod that to be like a fiveminute thing in a turn. No,
it was a beautiful thing. AsI reflect on it, I remember
I had an Atari and a Clicoat different eras in my room at their

(21:11):
age, So I see, No, I feel like in our culture,
this sounds really decadent that an eightyear old seven year old has a PlayStation
in his own room. It's like, now, I definitely had a TV
and an Atario. It was probablyduring the nes era and I had an
Atari. But then later I hadan nes in my room and it wasn't
a big deal because I had aeither a Super Nintendo or a Sega Genesis.

(21:33):
What did those come out at thesame time? Uh huh, yeah,
yeah, they were both the sixteenbit system. Yeah, I bought
the Saga Genesis because my friends allhad Super Nintendo and so I think I
got it. So we had somethingdifferent. Oh that's that. We really
liked the Joe Montana football and weused to play that forever in my room.
But I had to buy the TV, and I think my mom for
Christmas gave me the Sega Genesis.But I've always yeah, growing up,

(21:53):
I always I was nine years old, eight nine or something like that.
I had to be about nine.What year did that come out? Do
we remember? Um? I canpull it up in my brain, like
eighty eight, eighty nine, Yes, so I had to be nine yep,
so I'm close to I'm in themiddle of their age. And then
from that moment on, I've alwayshad a console for whatever reason. I
took a break when I turned sixteenfifteen sixteen ish, I think very comment

(22:17):
to the picture. Yeah, jobscame into the picture, and I did
not play games. It's again untilI was eighteen nineteen because my roommate had
a PlayStation one ah back and thenI brought Madden back. This is one
of my topics I wanted to discuss, So let's take a break and let's
talk about the history of the PlayStation. That's a request from our good friend

(23:04):
Matt's master pathologicology. I think he'sgonna be hunting serial killers based on what
he was talking about in our break. He has the strengths of a vampire
with none of their weaknesses. That'snot what I heard, man. I
got a really pay attention to thatguy. We're a little love though I'm

(23:30):
a big fan. There might bea slow gas weight in this room.
Have I ever heard that phrase before? My strength of yeah, yeah,
it's uh it's blade, right,isn't that? Um? He was a
Marvel superhero before Marvel superheroes were coolplay Oh yes, the strengths of a

(23:52):
vampire movie. I don't think mykids have seen that one. It's I
mean, it's not a Marvel movie. It's like post Writer came out at
the same time period, Like whenwhat's this bucket? Did that? And
then they're like, no, that'snot cannon. Uh. So I had
a fun game to play. Ihave so many topics. It's funny that
we're going to do this. There'slike fifty million. This is the last

(24:12):
one I came up with, soum uh what I wondered, what game
you associate with each generation of console. So I'm gonna say the console,
and then you immediately tell me thefirst game or no, just tell me
the game that you're like, thatis the most quintessential game for that console.
Okay, you might need to helpme come up with a name.

(24:33):
I might do that stupid annoying thingwhere I described the game and you help
me. Okay, it's probably Cubert, all right. PlayStation one, PlayStation
one, tomb Ra, tomb ratererrad or Mad ninety seven, one of
the two. Those are good,and those are games you played, yep.
Mine was Ape Escape and which isfunny. But I just love I
don't always like those platforms. Idon't even think I've played it. I
just own it. The only reason. And here's the thing. I fell

(24:56):
in love with the tomb Rater games. I Uh, it's because I was
just I don't know why. Ihad like a couple of days off and
our roommate Fred was out of townand he had a PlayStation there, and
I think Natalie wasn't even around.I was by myself. So I'm like,
oh, I'll play some video gamesagain. Man. I picked up
this tomb I started to play uhtomb Raider, and then I was like,

(25:18):
oh, this is kind of funand I really liked it. And
then I played Mad and then Iwas like, I'm gonna finish this tomb
Rator game. And then it becamelike, I wonder if it is has
to do with the timing. ButI love those games. That's why I
like Uncharted, That's why I thinkI love all of the tomb Rador games
except for the most recent one thatmy mom got me for the playtime for
my birthday. And I was like, I don't know, it's not the
same. Yeah, they they changeit up to make it something different,

(25:41):
and I'm that guy who doesn't wantsomething different, right right, they try
to break it a modern I justwant some turquoise spandex boobs bouncing around with
some deagles shooting up. You're donewith that, all right? PS two?
PS two? What game? Thequite essential PS two title? You

(26:03):
go first? I got to takea minute on that one. Well,
for me, it's like Cooper whenI think of when I think of the
PS two, I'm like that guy. You know what. Actually, as
we're saying this, there's a voicein the back of my head going,
hey, you forgot about me onthe PS one Pappa the Rapper, Oh,
I think actually just usurped him inmy mind. Came up in the
back end. We used to playall the time, punch mind test me.

(26:27):
Sure you'd find the way to beatyou, Sure to beach you.
Nevertheless, you get a lesson fromteaching. Could think I couldn't remember any
of the other raps. That's theinitial one, that's first one, the
most repetitions, and you've got arelike this game is hard. Yeah,
because there's a level where they're inline for a toilet and you have to
rap battle for that. Yeah,So I tune to change my vote to

(26:51):
one. That's the most. That'sthe most PlayStation one game I can think
of. PlayStation two nothing? Didyou play it? Did you did?
I had one? I know Ihad one because after not even Grand Theft
Auto three, I remember you playedthat a lot. I did? Was
that on PS two? I wouldhave guessed that to be as three game.
Okay, then I'll say that's definitelyit, because that you know me

(27:11):
better than myself. Well, notthe first time we've said it, not
the last. Wait really, ohyes, you're right again. Well that's
yeah, because it was the Itwas Grand Theft Auto three that inspired the
change for the Sly Cooper games.Between one and two, they and they
had a whole interview and I alsoplayed and I think that was on the

(27:33):
original PlayStation, but I played theoriginal Grand Theft Auto. Oh yeah,
yeah, yeah, really liked it. And that's where the Red Dead title
was before. Was it Dead Revolved, Red Dead Revolver or just it was
Revolved and then Redemption and then Redemptiontwo? Um? Was that a PS
one title or PS two times GrandTheft Auto? No Red Dead Revolver?
I think it was PS one thatsounds like it, but I definitely PS

(27:56):
two is so in the PS twoarea, I was strictly maddened, like
all the time. Yeah, thatwas my jam that maybe played a little
Nascar yeah on there for a littlebit, but not It was almost always
Madden was the only game I hadin the PS two era, and maybe
Grand Theft Auto that would have beenit. PS three, PS three VPS
three has to be the Batman games, Oh like that would be the really

(28:18):
yeah, because the first Batman gamescame out on that PS three and that
was ah because I think honestly itwasn't until and then, So that's the
one that it's interesting, that's theone that first comes to mind. But
my favorite games were always the unchartedones, but I and I don't think
I picked those up until PS three. But um, but yeah, so
which one has to be? Hasto be Batman Arkham Arkham Asylums. The

(28:44):
first one was this would be afun meme. That's why we're doing this.
We're gonna make a little quad,so you fill on the board.
Everybody can answer. So I'll makeone for you for me, for me
a Portal two Essential PlayStation three one. I will still put that in today,
whatever, seven years, eight yearslater, I will still play Portal
two on the p S three.It's interesting. Why do I so Portal

(29:07):
two to me says more about ourfriendship and also Christian. I think I
played that with him or something.I know you and I played together a
lot. Yeah, but that's morethan the console. I would say,
Oh, that's a that's a KevinGames is portal too. It was a
good problem and we loved We talkedabout it in here a lot too,
because we loved um Cave Johnson andI remember we got unlocked tables there was

(29:30):
when that guy said that the trickit blew my mind, which is it's
one of I always love those thingsthat are common sense, but they make
it go oh yeah, yeah whenwe you do a certain thing and you
unlock these behind the scenes thing andI don't know why, I just listen
to it. And he said,you know, one of the biggest challenges
of making this game, Like withit, he's talking about the level that
we just did, and he goes, you know, you have you have
to find that sweet spot where it'sjust challenging enough where you but not so

(29:53):
challenging that you get angry, andthen not so easy that you're not happy
you did it. Very game designis a very challenge that that spectrum of
fun is right in between you.It's fascinating. I may have said this
before, but like the light spectrumbetween infrared and ultra violent that's most of
light, and then there's like thislittle sliver in between the two where it
transforms between the two and that's whereall the color is that we enjoy.

(30:18):
I think that's where fun lifts.There's like sucky and sucky on either side,
and then righting between there's this likeit's fun and it's incredibly subjective and
really easy to miss. Yeah,and then suddenly ring crisped underneath the sun.
You're just you're just burning alive,like you're taking this analogy too far
now and because it's boring alright,and P four, PS four the quintessential.

(30:45):
Now we're not done with the generation. They've got another year in us.
But to date, when you're likePS four, I will always remember
this as being the game on thePS four the game I'll tell you while
you're thinking. My secondary version ofthis that I wanted to do was like
the Newlywed game, where I wasgoing to try to tell you what you

(31:06):
were going to say, and thengive you a chance to say what you
thought I would. And then Ihad another layer where I was going to
guess what you would say. Iwas going to say I would have gotten
asleep. I couldn't write it down. So that's why I was like,
we should just talk about this otherwiseI'm going to try to do that,
and then I won't be able toremember the category. I don't remember what

(31:30):
I like? Who am I?So? Were you about to say that
you were going to say the onethat you think I would? I just
thought that would be an interesting gamificationbecause I think my answer is a little
controversial. Ooh, it's Destiny.Interesting. Yeah, when I think of
the like when I think of PSfour, I immediately think of Destiny.

(31:52):
And I think one of the bigreasons why is when they were building the
controller for it, they said thatthe PS four control or they worked with
Bungee to make the controller optimal forthat kind of gaming. So every time
I even touch the PlayStation controller,I feel it's so much more ergonomic than
the Xbox controller. And I'm like, that's because the people of Bungee are

(32:13):
like, listen, we want peopleto hold onto this controller for a long
time, and it just feels goodin your hands, and so I feel
like I'm holding Destiny. I'm holdingmy Destiny right there. Plus the game
is gorgeous, it's beautiful. It'snow free to it's a freemium game.
You can get the disc for likethirteen dollars somewhere to play Destiny too,
and then the Optical that is anoptical disc, and then two of the

(32:34):
expansions are absolutely free as well,so you can dive right in. More
on that in a moment. Idon't think I can't. I honestly,
to me, there's nothing like.My favorite games to play on the PS
four have been the Uncharted games andthe Batman games, but I don't like
and the Spider Man one. Ienjoyed it, but it doesn't seem to

(32:57):
represent like it's interesting because it feelslike it's had the longest arc in my
life. Yeah, has it beenaround longer than any of the other Sits
No, it's about the same lengthas the PS three. It might it
might beat out the PS three whenit's all said and done. I can't
remember on the on the timeline,but it's it was seven years for the
PS three, so we might beentering into year eight. But if I

(33:21):
had, like if you were agun to my head, pick something that,
in your opinion, defines the PSfour, I think, but it's
because of my life, I wouldsay Fortnite, like that would be my
first gut. Oh really, that'sinteresting. Yeah, because it's there.
It's not for me, but it'swhat I would always think of, is
that. Yeah, it's tough becauseSlide two obviously I love it, but
I poured a lot of hours intoum the game that I love so much

(33:45):
Psychonauts and also destroy All Humans,which are both coming back soon on the
PS four. So it's like thatI don't have to vote for them.
They get honorable mentions. This isa fun we do we have time to
do older? Sure? Yeah,because I thought about it. If you
say ans, the answer is superMario brother Not for me? What I

(34:08):
don't think? So how is thathumanly possible? As I think? I
want to think about it a littlebit. Because here's the thing. I
did not play Mario Brothers. Ithink, Oh, it's Double Dribble.
This is mind blowing. I'm gladfurther back, Double Dribble would be my
quintessential Nintendo because we played that constantly. What did you play prior to Did

(34:31):
you play anything before the n S? There was a game that was kind
of like a ripoff of pac Manthat had these two dancing cockroaches that my
dad had a Tandy one thousand keyboardand you put this eight track yeah yeah,
and it was just we got ja. And then there was this like
slalomn skiing game. Yeah that Itry. I could never get anything to
do it, but I loved It'sso funny because as a kid I had

(34:52):
no idea how to play these games. But I would keep playing them because
I just loved watching these cockroaches dancegoing we got and then gage and the
cockroker just would do like this stupideight bit animation probably wasn't even eight bit,
like it was less than that.Like they were just and like move
and the only way you could tellthat they were moving is essentially pixels turning

(35:14):
on and off. Like it wasjust light and green and dark, and
that's right, right, but yeah, that Oh, and then after that
would be load Runner, which wasthe game was the first PC game I
ever played, and it was onthe Tanny one thousand and I logged a
crap ton of hours on Loadrunner alot. And was that the Tenny.
So it was a keyboard and ithad like it was like essentially a Yeah,

(35:34):
it was mostly a keyboard, butI and I think you could play
it with a joystick. But theidea was is that you had these guys
chasing you, and it was likea Donkey Kong type of sens where there's
breaking ladders and the guys were comingto get you, and it was all
stick figures and you had a laser. Yeah, you had a laser and
you had to shoot the laser,and if the guys fell in the brick,
they would sit there and dance,and you had to try and time

(35:57):
it because you had to try andget out of the map, and so
you could lock the guys in thereand then get around them somehow. Yeah,
or you could try and time itwhere if you just did a bunch
of them, they would stop andthen eventually they could crawl out of the
hole and walk on top of eachother. Right, So if they did
that, they on top of eachother. But if they they fell in
as the brick was reforming, becauseeventually the reforms, then that's how you

(36:21):
would kill them. Oh man,And that was a lot of fun.
That's that sounds like a decent mobilephone game, and I wish it was
still around. We did a longtime ago when we first started doing the
show. I found like what theycall it where you can play it in
a brother Yeah, yeah, yeah, I played. I saw it and
I was like, la, yes, thank you. And the Police Quest
was a game that I played AmyNo. It was like it was so

(36:45):
funny because I it's one of thosegames that I wish I could go back
as an older person because I wasso young when it came out, and
all I remember was just it wasthe first game that had like kind of
graphics, and there was this feltlike a really cool story and you had
to do these very intricate things,like I remember like part of the game
was you had to go in andif you're going to be a copy,
had to take a shower. That'sfunny that I was so mad about napping.

(37:08):
I was gonna say that sounds liketaking a nap to take a shower
and then go to the shooting range. Like there was all these sequences and
it was remember how everything was guessand check right, but this was more
about a narrative than it was justabout a platform game, and so you
had to do all this stuff andgo to the shooting range and then this
led to that and it was oneof those games that would probably have taken
me forever to play, but Iwould have The world was really interesting to

(37:30):
me. I remember being really drawnto. A friend of mine gave it
to me and I copied his floppy. So it was these kids that I
barely knew up the street and uh, and I played it very briefly,
and that was also at the timewhen leisure Suit Larry, everybody want to
play leisure Suit Larry. But Inever got my hands on a copy of
it, and it was always thecomputers, always in my dad's room.

(37:51):
So I think it was been hard. Yeah, but I don't think you
would have freaked out. Like Iprobably could have just said, hey,
can I get this if I hadthe money, but it was it was
a long time ago, and itwas like, well fifty bucks. I
mean, they weren't even know Icouldn't even tell you how much anything cost.
That. Yeah, you're like,I have no idea, but uh.
And then, so did you gowith before the Nintendo. I was
gonna say I was trying to thinkthrough Atari because we had an Atari.
We had a pretty thick library ofthe twenty six hundred games um and so

(38:15):
we had a lot like Pitfall,and I feel like River Raid was a
big one, Vanguard a breakout.But I think when I think of,
like how all of those are prettytied, I have to really marinate on
it. But I feel like SpaceInvaders felt like the most um Atari game
to me, Like that's that's kindof the because we played Pacman and Hubert,
but that that just feels like whenyou think of Atari, you even

(38:37):
see the little pixel lated. Andthen the first console I think I ever
played as a kid was a Colico, which was slight, was better than
the Atari um and it was asmurf game, so they actually had a
license as well, and it waslike a walk it was a platform or
before Mario Brothers. You like walkedaround the thing and jumped over logs and
stuff. And that was crazy.That was like nineteen eighty two, that

(38:59):
that that little Smurf game came out. That was a long Irish term.
I uh, what's comes next?So you get into a Super Nintendo.
Yeah, Super Nintendo and oh it'sinteresting. I would also have said Mike
Tyson's Punch Out for Nintendo. Ohyeah that one. But Double Dripple is
definitely a bigger part of my life. Uh, the UM for Super Nintendo

(39:22):
and I hope I'm not. Howdo you not say Super Mario World.
How is it not Super Mario World. I think it's called F zero.
That's good. That's a good game. I've played that good game too.
I never played Star Fox. OhI was It's so weird. I never
played any of the stuff that mostpeople are like, these are the quintessential
games. I was never into those, oh, which reminds me. That

(39:42):
was the other game that I lovedon PlayStation one was Wing Commander. I
know I've talked about that. That'sprobably one of my favorite all time games.
I was just obsessed with that andI was so bummed when I finished.
That was the only game that whenI finished, I was like,
oh man, I remember being sadmy apartment in Stockton. But um yeah,
it was F zero And I thinkthat was about it because Sega Genesis
then Sega Genesis would have been nextJoe Montana football. How do you not

(40:06):
say Sonic the Hedgehog. These arecrazy. I never played Sonic the Hedgehog.
It didn't fit. It didn't vibewith my friends. I just I
can't even think about the Senate.The Genesis without Salter Beast would be a
very close second. That was theonly kind of game that you're mispronouncing kid
Chameleon, Nope or flip that echothe echo that Dolphin. We played it,
hated it. What. We wouldgo ride to the video store and

(40:28):
we would rent these games and playingfor a little bit, and if we
didn't like it, we'd move on, but sure we would never it was
only when we got tired. Oh, I'm so surprised that Super Nintendo wouldn't
have been a supertechmobile. Yeah,that was another one. We played a
lot. Or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Nope, we had very different childhood,
did possible? You know It's funnyis if you would have said arcade
games, Yeah, I would havesaid teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Uh,

(40:51):
Dungeons and Dragons yea, if itwas like a you know, you go
to the arcade, the stand upbox thing and then the Neo Geo was
a big deal. Every You sayDungeon and dragons, do you mean in
the LaserDisc? Yeah, Arcade it'scalled dragons Layer. Was I talking about
that the other day? Yeah?Is that not? I mean that's not
what I said. You said Dungeonand Dragons. Think that's what I thought.
It was called this whole time?That is something very different. But

(41:12):
that's a Winter ever, Winter WinterNights whatever, winter no Winter Eves.
What is that game called. I'vebeen playing it this week. It's it's
a free to play game by arcAnyway, go on, we have different
adulthoods it's apparently I have a PSX. So have I skipped you at all?
Like, say, you did SuperNintendo? Yeah, we did them,
yea, yeah, yeah, theGameCube I didn't have. I never

(41:35):
played you missed the N sixty fourbecause that was during our blackout zone,
so neither of us really had those. I see when I think of the
N sixty four, I think ofagain the Mario title Mario sixty four.
But the only game I played onthat significantly was Pod Racing and Mario Party.
Those are the two games that Iplayed. Party was that GameCube.

(41:58):
We played Golden Eye all this time. Nickelodeon, Um, yeah, and
then now we're all cut up.That's everything, right? And then and
then oh the Dreamcast you skip someSega tie some Sega consoles. We can't
own them all. The Dreamcast wasthat after Genesis? Yes, yeah,
because it's so I would if itwas the Dreamcast, I would have to

(42:19):
say Seaman and uh may pe uhbecause that was the only game I know
we played. Crazy would say ourgame, um as jet Set Radio Future
say I was here to say that, but it was jet It wasn't Crazy
Taxi three on the Dreamcast two probablyyeah, yes, yeah, yeah,

(42:40):
yeah, so I remember that one. But I think the most game I
played on the Dreamcast was ce Manand Jet Grind Radio and Jet Set Future.
Other than that, what about PC. It would have to be a
load runner if you go old schooland then SIMS. That's the only place
I was gonna say I poured somein the nineties. I poured a lot
hour in sim City two thousand,I remember that was on the PC.

(43:02):
I had this cup that I wouldjust put coke in and just sit and
drink a coke that it was acup that had a straw built into it,
and I would just play SIMS forhours. Sims. I was playing
sim City. But yeah, didyou really play SIMS for that long?
Oh? Lots? I had noidea. I played it, remember We've
talked about it. But I playedit so much that I was like,
I remember thinking I should be doingsomething for my real life. Yeah,

(43:23):
I was getting too invested in myfake life. I remember that. I
did not realize the reason why wasbecause at that point you were living on
your own and you were paying rent. And I played a lot and even
when Natalie was home, and itwas mostly because Jeremy and you guys would
always do lots of bits about thegibberish and stuff. Yeah, but I
liked the game. I liked ita lot. But yeah, so here's

(43:46):
my question. We've talked about thisbefore in terms of my time playing Guild
Wars. I watched Monday Night Footballthis week because the Patriots destroyed the Jets
and one of the greatest shutouts inthe hundred years. What's shocking. It
was like thirty three to nothing.It was beautiful on the road, it
was it was. It was agreat game jet yep. But still the

(44:10):
poor guy, um and what's greatabout it? Especially because we have to
watch it live? So I watchedit like a swollen spleen? Oh did
he? Oh? Yeah? Andthen his spleen was swa explained because he
was having some he was having ahard night. Yeah. Um uh.
The and they the commentators are justso unkind and they're like, look at

(44:30):
Tom Brady, He's a season vetterand he can do this man on the
other side of the field, notso much like, come on, poor
guy, he's missed like six games. It was like he's played for professional
Yeah. Um so uh. Butmy question was, as I watched this
there's a lot of uh, it'sa lot of sitting, uh and not

(44:51):
doing anything in football. To thepoint in this game particular, by the
middle of the third quarter, Iwas like, there's we're done, Like,
there's no point I walk away,I go do other things. Is
that is that a normal people interact? Like if you play a game,
you play the sims for a reallylong period of time and you feel bad
about it, but you were youwere achieving things, even if it was

(45:12):
like interactive and you were doing stuff. But average guys just sit and watch
football and do nothing. Yeah right, yeah? Right? Is that?
Am I wrong? Nope? Butthey just like sit literally what does their
braind during that time? They Ithink it's like a checkout thing. Like
if you want to talk about superstereotypical guy who's just got like he's the

(45:35):
guy who says, listen, thisis my house. Yeah, that's my
recliner. Right, this is whereI sit when I watch my Jets lose
to the Patriots. Right that guy? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guy. I just I think likesto sit and just kind of be
in his own head or to haveit be a distraction or I think it's
like it's like fishing, but evenmore boring. Yes, I think there's
that guy, and then there's there'sthe guy who is very very emotionally invested.

(46:00):
But usually, I feel like,very rarely does a guy who's very
emotionally invested have no other friend thatcomes over or anything like that, Like
I don't think he's by himself.Okay, experience, because I can see
that if you've got guys over,even one other guy, even if you're
sitting in silence, at least there'sa camaraderie that's happening. You're investing shoulder

(46:21):
shoulder time. I get that.But if you're like I'm alone watching TV
watching a game, which like Imean, fifty percent of the game is
not game. It's commercials and cutawaysand you know, maybe maybe like twenty
percent of actual playing and even replays, it's like it's worse than reality TV
watching The Bachelor of like coming uptwenty four minutes of actual game. When

(46:46):
you watch a replay, they getdone within thirty minutes. You can watch
an entire and that's it's supposed tobe one hour of football. The clock
says one hour, and you canwatching like thirty five minutes all the and
that's with replays. They include scoringreplay. Yeah, yeah, I think
I never I yell now I yellat the TV, which I don't think

(47:06):
I did until I start I moveddown here. But you also yell at
trees. That's true. Yeah,but they didn't ask for it. You
have a stiff arm. Kids,You're gonna honestly that I do too.
But that's different. That's out oflove. Trees is just that's animosity.
Grow it leaves in the wrong direction. You're gonna tell me you've never got
a sideway stare from a tree.Tree like kind of puff up its chest

(47:28):
at you, like so I tryingto try to swool up on you.
Question, how long are you lookingat the tree to watch it's puff it's
chest out at you long enough?It depends on how big. If it's
a we're talking like a fifty yearold oak, I don't you know.
I don't want to get aggressive,but that's a big tree trying to pick
a fight with him. Dark ARBstoo. Yeah, but if you got

(47:49):
a Japanese maple, I'll throw itdown with a Japanese maple. I'll take
direct eye contact with that Japanese maple. You know, what I mean follow.
I'm not afraid because it's long andslender. Their eyes where where are
their eyes? Everywhere? Everywhere.That's the hard part is how you only
know you're making eye talk to eyecontact when you feel it. Then you

(48:10):
know what. At the beginning ofthis, I thought you were positioning yourself
as a delusional old man. NowI just know that you're crazy. It's
crazy. There's no age requirement here. This is call me crazy. But
make eye contact with a tree andwatch what. I don't know if I
can. Yeah, and you're right, I'm the crazy one. Tell us

(48:31):
from Terry next Trabby the guy whopushes the buttons, turn on the echo,

(49:17):
asshole. Oh so much has happenedin the four years since we last
reported this podcast. Um. Itis currently um Halloween time within king Thorne.
So, Mackie Thorne, you aresuch a good friend. You remember,
so if right now, if wecould jump cut to my house,

(49:38):
you would find my wife playing GuildWars running the labyrinth. It is her
favorite activity to do. And whatyou do is you gather with a squad
of fifty people and you run throughthis giant, kind of haunted labyrinth with
skeletons and candy corn, monsters andgargoyles. It's so great. I'll get

(49:59):
you some and and um you murderthem and you just uh, you gain
loot. And so what's great isyou come run up to these like haunted
doors and your trick or treat youopen the door and then out from the
other world come these monsters and youbeat them. Eventually, Steve the Labyrinthian
Horror shows up. His name isn'tSteve, but all the players call him
Steve. Yeah, it's funny.He's like Steve Steve and it says Labyrinthian

(50:21):
Horror on the screen. And he'suh, you know, five times the
size of all the players, andhe's got a chainsaw and he's a skeleton
and his sword and he runs aroundrare, rare rare. Um. My
wife loves it. Is she justthe game? All of it is secondary
to just running the labor on loopover and over and over and over and
over and over again. And whydoes she like it so much? Think

(50:43):
you know, I I she likes, um, what's that game cookie Jam?
Yeah, it's just like a bubblecrushing So I think she likes the
repetitive nose of it. There's alsoa big community aspect of it because it's
a festival. It's a limited time, so people are always chatting talking about
Halloween, being silly about the world, and it has a good rhythm to
it, like you play for awhile, you have to take a break
because the map kind of resets,so everybody gets their things, and so

(51:07):
it's a good it's a good communitytime. But last year when she did
it, because she was so willingto run, run the thing so much,
she would get the high high endstuff because that you know, have
a point oh one percent chance ofdropping. She's plain enough to get the
point oh one percent drop of stuff. And I look at him, like,

(51:27):
you you have a thing that's worthone hundred and fifty gold that's the
equivalent of like ten dollars in reallife within the game. That she would
urge because she's ready the lab yeahyeah. And so she now she just
sits on this money. She hasall this going. She's like, oh,
yeah, I have like a onehundred and fifty gold I'm like,
you don't understand. When I wasmaking my legendary, that's what I had
to spend real world money on wasgold in order to get the legendary for
it, which is not uncommon,and she did it the honest way time

(51:54):
or money. I mean, it'slike grinding a little bit, right,
Yeah, she likes it. I'mnot listening. It's not my deal.
I play it for twenty minute.I go then and I'm like, cool,
now I'm gonna go play the gamelike that. Why I have two
legendaries? Man, that guy iscrazy. He stares at trees. So,
but prior to this release, theprologue for Ice Brewed Saga came out,

(52:16):
which has you remember this is thelast time we spoke, so they
they announced that the next season isgoing to be a saga. They're not
calling it a season. And thefascinating reason for this, they were very
overt about it, is that theyhave four development teams and rather than releasing
a map with all the bells andwhistles every like three times a year or

(52:37):
twice a year, they're like,let our teams release things in different waves.
Therefore, they're not you remember thisthat they're not a full blow Well
it's been four years, not afull blown map. But then there's kind
of leak stuff out, so it'slike more stuff, not as big,
but more often it was kind ofthe yeah, right, and then there's

(52:58):
not this giant gap of content.So the prologue for the Iceberg saga starts
at a very the writing has gottenreally mature with and not mature is like
adult, but it's season. There'slike a there's a swagger to how they
build their stories because they're a littlemore complex. They have some history to
them now. So we're we're headingnorth to meet the Char and uh and

(53:20):
they've ordered a coalition of all thedifferent Char tribes, so there's four of
them. They're all coming together andthere's political intrigue and the new president is
you trustworthy? What are the relationshipswith people? And they're like, well,
in order to celebrate the swing thatwe're experiencing within the world of like
we're starting to conquer evil slowly,we Char tribes are going to hold a

(53:42):
festival. So it's there's this giantfestival all over the map, and instead
of running around and murdering things onthe screen, which you normally do in
every other map, it's a giantparty. So that's an actual like event,
and there's a pa the announcement thatcomes on and it is like all
right in this part of the map, this event is happening, So you
in that corner in a few minutes. So you're like, you run over
there. It's like you're on acampgrounds. That's the whole And so you

(54:06):
show up and it'll be like anarchery exhibit or it'll be like a roller
derbry thing, but one of aroller derby. Yeah yeah, yeah,
yeah, literally getting these little mechanizedcars and run around. There's like an
arena, but it's more of likea game. It's it's like doing a
version of the game in reality,like like if you were to go to

(54:27):
a rent fair. That's essentially itrenfair for Guild Wars exactly, but except
for in the reality of Guild Wars. This is happening outside the walls.
So they're like, have an eventto celebrate a thing that is real.
It's crazy. So they have thisrock concert thing, and this is where
it gets really weird. This iswhere my brain hits. So you know
that I work and have for twentyyears in events management. That's what I

(54:51):
do is produce events. So yougo up into this rock concert and you
end up all the event things forit, or the event meaning like the
activities to do instead of murder theGoblin are to run the event. So
the crowd is out of control.Subdue this guy. There's a thief in
the crowd. Find the guy.The monitors on the stage and need batteries.

(55:14):
Run and get the batteries and runthem onto stage. Then the animatronic
on the stage goes crazy and youhave to shut that down. You have
to mosh pit for a while.I mean, I'm telling you that this
intersection of like doing real world eventsmanagement, and then even the terminology that's
showing up on the screen, Iwas like, this isn't just doesn't not

(55:35):
feel like a game right now?Does it hurt because it's too close to
work? It was too close towork. I was like, I got
it because of the irony. Butit is. It is an incredibly popular
event because it's a rock concert happening. It goes on for ten minutes and
it plays every two hours. Peoplelove it and the music is fun if
you're into death metal kind of music. And I'm like, I can't,

(55:55):
I can't do it. I can't. That's just a great phrase. It's
like they're like, I love it. People love it. And then when
it's over. When the concerts overall the stands, they are all the
people in the stands file out,They walk down the hill and go back
into the festival. It's the mostmeta thing. If ever, people that

(56:20):
are filing out these are their AI. Okay, so it's the level of
like when they're like, this thing'shappening. People come into the concert and
they get ready and they start rockingat and they do the thing. They're
like yeah, and then they likethen they walk down. They know if
you walk with them, they'll belike that was really good. I love
this death metal stuff so good.I mean, if you're into death metal
thing. The thing that's fascinating.I wanted to mention this before about the

(56:44):
this Ice Brood saga is that theydid a um what's the word? They
hit their own event just at thebeginning to packs, which I think I
mentioned before, so they didn't makean on stage announcement. I have to
drink some water. I'm so excitedto talk about Gilboy drink Kevit is drinking
water. He's enjoying it, he'shydrating and he's back. I did that

(57:05):
Tales from Tia thing, and Ihad to breathe So do you remember um
last month at the beginning to packs, they made their announcement for the Ice
Brute Saga, and even on thestage they made mention of like, we're
nervous about how fans will respond tothis, which I thought was an odd
statement, because they were they wereannouncing things that were cool. They they

(57:25):
teased out this next chapter. Theytold us what was next, where we
were going, who we were goingto see. I thought it was all
very cool, but I could tellthat that some people were disappointed, and
so I went back and read online. So on Instagram, Arena Nette started
posting stuff and we're like, hey, Ice Brute Saga is drop check it
out, check out the trailer,that kind of thing. And then I

(57:49):
read the comments and there would bepages of people complaining about what a letdown
the the on stage announcement was andhow they felt like they had been lied
to because there had been such abuild up to this announcement and all you
told us were X, Y andZ, which again we're not mind blowing,
but they also had they had hedgedthat expectation. We knew that some

(58:13):
of those things were never gonna Theyare like no playable races, no new
thing, like, well, theyalready told us that that wasn't going to
happen, so there's like this expectationthat. Then they said, well,
why did you do this event?You should have just put that in a
blog post or you should have justput it good. You're making the same
face that I made. They were. They were critiquing how they released the

(58:37):
information, saying that somehow by makingit on stage announcement, they have the
right to be angry that the announcementwasn't more than what they wanted. And
then one of the best one isthat this this person then goes on and
I'm not a whole page, awhole screenshot page of explaining to them about

(58:58):
how they need to get back totheir roots of activity and only through tapping
back into their desire to innovate andbe artistic will they be able to make
a game as good as they madeseven years ago when it first came out.
What I don't get is that youplay the game, you like it,
like why why? Why would youthrow so much hate? And I
realized what why? The arena netsUH members on that stage were nervous about

(59:22):
their fans response because I think forthe most part they're dealing with vocally,
people that are extremely toxic, andso only the angry people are the voices
that are making it to there.There are obviously hundreds of thousands of us
that enjoy the game because the gamethrives online and I'm not online going there's
doing are stupid And every now andthen I'll say, like, I love

(59:44):
this game, I do this somethingfull page of exactly of of bile.
When I can't compete with that withlike I really enjoy the game, my
wife and I dig it and it'sa great time for us to hang out.
I can't. I don't have moreto say more to say that because
you've tapped into your creativity of exactlykind of and then tag them yeah,

(01:00:08):
and then start in fighting with them. Yes, now you now you figured
out the internet covin congratulation everybody's problemto the show. I mean, have
you ever had that level of expectationwhere you would critique an organization for how
they would release him. I waslike, it's their prerogative if they want

(01:00:29):
to spend all this money and timegetting people excited. I mean, they
had an impact theater they were therewas probably five hundred people in this theater
there to watch this announce It wasthe temperament of like awkward or tense.
No. I mean, I knowyou weren't in the room, but it's
it seemed like the room enjoyed itand people applauded for things that there were
some really exciting things that they didannounce. But see, I have a

(01:00:50):
theory that that And I don't knowif it's always been this way, because
it's all everybody loves to point outthe social media, the internet and blame
that for all the world ever,but it's I have this theory that what's
really happening is what you described,is that somehow the people who make the
noise become the ones that, uhthat established the tone for some stupid reason.

(01:01:15):
Yeah, here's an examples to thelowest common denominator sort of And it's
not video game related. It's outsideof my own uh, it's in my
professional life. And so I apologize, but indulge me for a second.
Is that here in California, therewas an Assembly bill that has passed that
establishes basically statewide rent control U.It's an insignificant thing as far as like

(01:01:37):
it's a nice middle of the roadbill right in that it says five percent,
and that's what everybody's like, Oh, five percent, but in actuality
it's five percent plus cost of livingincrease. Oh so if you use this
year as an example, it wouldactually be seven percent. The amount of
people that raise their rent uh closeto seven percent is entirely insignificant. So

(01:02:00):
you have tenants rights people I'm usingair quotes who are saying like, oh,
this is so great, like wewe've stopped a man, you know
what I mean. Uh, andit's like we did it. But in
actuality like that that that cap isn'teven effective, got it right. And
then you have the other side ofthe coin, which is you have these
landlords that are now freaking out becausethey've had undermarket value rents for so long

(01:02:24):
and they feel like now they can'tthere it's going to take too long to
get it back up to market.So they're evicting people. And so people
are talking about, oh, they'regetting on favor, I'm getting evicted because
they're gonna raise my rents. Butwhen you look at the overall scope of
the entire state of cow like inBurbank alone, is fifty nine percent renters,

(01:02:45):
right, in our city here,So like that significant, that is
significant, that's huge. So buthow many people that's happening is insignificant,
right, But that is the narrative, that's what everybody reads about, so
that the perception is that it's abig deal. And I would argue,
I think it's the same thing.I think you're right. I would argue
that ninety nine point eight percent ofthe people who are there or playing the

(01:03:07):
game, I think it's awesome.Yeah, right, But the vocal point
two percent suddenly start to feel likeit's more sixty percent, right, just
because they're making that's right, Yeah, But in actual wal it's not even.
It doesn't even, it doesn't evencompare. I'm getting I'm gonna get
bated by this. What what isseven percent of like an average rent?
If I may, if I paytwo thousand dollars, what's an average rent

(01:03:27):
in Burbank? Three? So ifyou've got a two bedroom place in Burbank,
you're probably paying twenty five hundred dollars. If it's fairly up to seven
percent increase on that would be soten percent if it's twenty five hundred,
two hundred and fifty dollars. Ithought you said it was seven percent.
I know I'm doing ten percent andthen oh yeah, so I'm guessing probably
around two twenty five somewhere in there. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

(01:03:50):
that would be a significant increase.I can see what That's My point is
that they're saying, we got rantcontrol. I'm like, no, you
didn't. Now now it's becoming areal estate I have a friend whose business
model, their company's business model isto find the home, to find the
multi unit buildings that are undermarket adviceby it, yes, and and kick

(01:04:12):
everybody out by jacking up the rent. So this law would make that because
they go far more than seven percent, because that your friend, if I'm
not mistaken, works for a company. Yes, absolutely, yes, yeah.
Yeah. So that's the other partof the law. See. The
part that the mom and pop landlordsare worried about is that they they're raising
the rents, right, But therent control does not apply if you own

(01:04:34):
a condominium or a single family homeand you're just a person, even if
you have it in a corporation oran LC unless you as long as the
lovely middle of the road law,it's not even really middle of the road
because honestly, what That's what's socrazy about it is that it doesn't.
Here's the thing. The tenants rightsfor the most part, I think,

(01:04:54):
but are ignorant. It doesn't helpthem get what they really want. The
only way that you can make arent affordable, well, man, we're
really off the resident. I gottastop. The only way that you can
make rent affordable in this market isyou have to increase the supply. And
when you establish rank controls, andwhen you start trying to regulate a free
market economy and a capitalistic society inwhich we live in, you start mucking

(01:05:15):
things up, and very rarely doesit work out in your favor. I
just I haven't yet. I haven'tseen an example of my thought executed and
worked because I think most of theI think most people wouldn't agree with me,
maybe, but I think that theonly way that you could fix these
kind of problems is to start makingit easier for the people to make money
to make that a possibility. So, in my mind, if you want

(01:05:35):
to fix a housing crisis, youstop, you start, you lower permitting
fees, you stop taxing the hellout of people, and make it easier
for people to make money, forthem to make you more houses, spoken
like a true capitalist, But wedon't do that. What we do is
we like here, we have athing here. Now, if you spend
this much money on a project,Let's say you're going to develop a condo

(01:05:56):
building which would add one hundred housesinto the market, it you have to
take a certain percentage of that anddedicate it to an arts project, either
on the site or you have togive money to the school. I'm not
against art or anything like that,but now what you've done is you've taken
a market where so it's hard forpeople to make money, and you've taken
that incentive away from them. Sothey're just gonna go make You're not gonna

(01:06:17):
stop rich people from getting richer,like, they're just going to figure out
a way to make more money.So why not use that against them to
fix your problems for you help themmake money getting houses for people. This
is how this is all gaming related. This is sim City five right.
This is how detailed the new levelof sim city is. You have to
negotiate building laws within the town andand deal with housing rights and uh and

(01:06:42):
making people happy, keeping the developersin there. So do you build a
golf course or do you create atitle, nine, subsection, paragraph,
ds, all the other words toestablish a rank control? Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, I mean thisis it's a it's a hard game.
There's yeah. I can't talk aboutit. I'm going to talk about
that. I have so many things, but I do want to say this

(01:07:05):
new game that I've been enjoying onmy phone. It's called uh um Iron
Marines. Are you familiar with it? All? So, this isn't that
one that Arnold Swartzenegger was No,no, no, it's not like that.
Um So. It came out intwenty seventeen. It is um.
I found it because I got anew iPhone eleven, which I was like,
well to celebrate, I'm any newgame. And it looks it's a

(01:07:29):
RTS game, and it operates likeStarCraft and they borrow liberally from StarCraft throughout.
It has a cartoony vibe to it. Um but it is a ton
of fun and looks and it movesreally great beautiful yeah uh or you have
it there, check it out there. The thing that's fascinated So and this
topic of of fans complaining, SoI was in the in the market for

(01:07:53):
a new RTS and there's a fewof them that show up. This game
is five dollars in the iTunes store. See look at your face. Okay,
see that's I didn't think you weregoing that direction. Most like most
people are like, how how dareyou charge me five dollars for this game?
Now? Here, it gets better. Once you buy the game,

(01:08:14):
you get you get all this greatcontent through it where you can go through.
You get three heroes right out there, you get two right at the
beginning. You unlock a third byplaying through a certain number of levels.
Then as you play, you andyou accrue credits which you can buy power
ups within you level up your guysnow if you want to. You can
also buy credits just like any othermobile game, to buy more power ups

(01:08:36):
in the level. Or you canbuy new heroes with totally different powers,
and they have a price range tothem. Some of them are two dollars,
some of them are eight dollars,or you can get all of them
for fifteen dollars. The comments,the outrage within the iTunes store, how
dare you charge me five dollars forthis and not give me all of these

(01:09:00):
characters and make me pay for credits. On the side, I was flabbergasted
reading through this. I looked atit and played it for like two days
and went, I love this game. This the I want to see the
other characters. It's worth the fifteendollars. I maybe played it for a
week and then I down and Ibought those other characters. And they're a
ton of fun. They had alot of and you don't need them.

(01:09:21):
Every review in it is like,you don't need the other characters. They
had replayability if you decide to goback and do the new levels. They're
they're like extras. Nobody wants topay for anything. They want it for
absolutely free, and which they wantmore. They want to make more money,
right, but don't want to paysomebody else to do stuff right.
It doesn't seem fair. So andmeanwhile they're cheating themselves because this game is

(01:09:42):
very funny. All the awards thatyou go through their their homages to other
things. So there's a God ofWar achievement and it's straight up God of
War as the icon. There's onfive maps in the first world there are
captains from Star Trek just hiding onthe map and if you tap them they
beam away. You get an achievementif you can find Cisco, Archer's car,

(01:10:03):
Jane Way, and Kirk. Ifyou can find them all you get
There are Infinity stones hiding all overthe mouth. If you can find those,
you get an achievement. You getpoints for there's I mean, the
achievements within them are worth time scanningthrough and laughing at. It's a great
game. I recommend it, especiallyif you like playing RTS. Is this
is It's really great to be ableto just click and drag and move guys

(01:10:25):
around and it is not a churnyour brain off kind of game. I've
definitely found. I said it asmy kids came up and we're bothering me.
I was like, oh, thisis a game where I have to
keep my hand on the wheel becauseI just lost. Like the challenge is
over, and I thought, oh, I'll just let them defend for a
second. To look up, I'mlike, oh, no, you over.
That's it, Like, you gottastay on it. You gotta worth

(01:10:45):
it. Best eight hundred dollars Iever spent. Maybe that's why people were
complaining about the game that if youlose, it burns your phone. Yeah,
that would be a valid complaint.But even if you're even if a
phone costs two thousand dollars, youstill gotta pay five bucks for a beautiful
game to play on it for exactlySo this this developers great. There's more
and more apps that are having subscriptionmodels. Now, now that's bullshit.

(01:11:14):
There's a game called Polygon that doesthat, and they want eight dollars a
week for you to be able tospin pictures around. That is that is
that's the opposite of what you said. Everybody wants money without working for us.
I'll I'll just slide this into yourphone. Have you ever tried to
undo a subscription on your phone?It is not intuitive though, it isn't.

(01:11:35):
You have to know where it is, you have to go, you
have to google it. I Ipay five ninety nine to an app that
tows me how to do it.Could they charge you every week? No?
Oh, that's a good subscription,son of them. I got the
light. I'm gonna play Iron Marineall right? Enjoy that? All right?
That was our show. Sorry itwasn't on Twitch this week. There

(01:11:55):
was a bios that needed updating,and then the OBS was in t b
A and so it was just itjust got weird with acronyms. But you
can talk to other people, andif you were here, you could listen
to the show. Oh, it'sinteresting. They're being so quiet so this
whole time, Oh, you weretalking about real estate work. That would

(01:12:18):
be so great of it. Imessed up the outrouh. But anyway,
this whole time, we've been streamingon the discord, which is available at
bit dot lee slash gamer Land discord. You could join that chat listen to
the show. Uh, they've justbeen listening in the other room, and

(01:12:38):
that's where we heard Max. Therethey go. I don't know if they've
muted their mics. I gotta lookat that all right. On behalf of
the Kevin Miller dot com, thisis Josh Warships saying okay, no,