#305 - Mindi Pelletier - The heart of touring - LEADING LADIES - Geezers of Gear

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Hello and welcome to Leading Ladies with me, Sarah, Burnie.
I've just been recording with Mindy and another excellent
conversation. I am so lucky to be doing this.
Really, I'm so lucky. I mean, Mindy has well over 25
years experience in the music industry, an incredible tour

(00:26):
manager. I mean, absolutely incredible.
We spoke very highly of Marty Hon, who basically guided her
through her first, let's say first tours and has been, yeah,
a support throughout going back in the day, the 90s, you know, a

(00:47):
lady coming into the industry right through until now.
Turned out that we'd actually been on the same tour back in
2013, although we don't actuallyremember each other.
So yes, excellent chat. Thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed

(01:08):
it. I'm loving all these ladies that
are coming onto the podcast and having a chat with me.
I feel that talking is a huge, huge positive impact in our
industry and I love to talk, so it's a bonus for me.

(01:30):
As always. Ladies, if there's any of you
out there that would like to come on the show, tell your
story and chat with me, then please, please send me an e-mail
producer@geezofgear.com and I would love to have you on the
show. I'm also, as you everybody
knows, I am very, very fortunateto have the support of Light

(01:54):
Switch behind me. So I cannot thank Light Switch
enough for being a continued support in the leading ladies.
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(02:14):
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(02:35):
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(03:02):
Now here's the leading ladies byGeezers of Gear on tour.
Maybe she got some stories to share.
Now here's the leading ladies bythe Geezers of Gear, Rockstar
ladies with some stories to share because La La La La la

(03:30):
ladies. Hello Wendy, welcome to Leading
Ladies. I'm so happy to be here, thanks
for having me. Really it's it was, it was
Kristen that like sort of put itput us in together.

(03:52):
Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for that.
I know we've been emailing back and forth for a little while and
you had a like, yeah, availability today, this
morning, time for you, isn't it?Yeah, it's like 8:30 in the
morning. Yeah, I live in Oregon, so yeah,
Pacific Time. And we were just talking about,
so I try and help as as many of the stray animals as I can here

(04:15):
in Crete. And I just showed you the the
little puppy. Actually, maybe I should show
that. I'll show the rest of them.
Yeah, I got to bring, got to bring him up there and let
everybody see, look. At this thing.
Oh my gosh, that face is. Ridiculous.
So basically. What's his name?
Go to a home and he's she's called Joy Joy.

(04:38):
So I've been very fortunate to find a home for her, which they
collect, I think April time, which is very rare here.
But you know, anyway, I've managed to find a home, although
I feel a bit sad that we're going to be losing her.
But at the same time, you know, having puppy is a lot of
responsibility. But you've got it is, but I

(05:00):
mean, losing her just opens a door for another one to come in,
you know, like finding that spotand filling that spot is is
important so. But you were saying how you've
helped, you know, like, yeah, please, I know to go back on to
what you were saying, but about raising money and puppies?
Oh, yeah, you know, just I have one of our one of our, you know,

(05:21):
I've been with the the Chicks. So Dixie Chicks for like in my
25th year, they're taking some time off right now.
But so we've I've seen them, youknow, get married, divorced,
they'll have kids, their kids all go to college, everything.
So we're all, we're very close and they're very, they love,
they love dogs and they help, you know, any charity that I

(05:42):
know that I want to be involved in, they're all about and they
do a lot of charity work. We do a lot of we, they help me
raise a lot of money for dog charity specifically.
We have a, a nanny that was withus for a long time.
Her name is Judy and Judy stopped, quit the industry when
got her that, that certificationand she's in Denver.

(06:03):
And so we, we help raise a lot of money.
But she, she, she helps me find shelters that are like legit and
really, you know, help, you know, they just, probably mostly
pit bulls really, cuz they just have such a bad rap here.
I'm sure they do there too. Yeah, I've seen actually a few
things on social media. Recently about but she helps me
find dog you know dog sanctuaries, either just animal

(06:29):
sanctuaries or dog rescues and I'll contact them and say hey, I
got some tickets for you. You know you want to bring your
stuff. Do you want to or do you know
you can just come to the show and like everybody can have a
minute or you can we can auctionthese off.
Every state's a little differenthere.
Some states that's considered gambling.

(06:49):
So you have to be a little careful how you do the ticket.
Sometimes you can do raffles, sometimes you can just have
people bid. It just really is depends on the
state. But with one of the things I had
success was with the bringing, bringing some of them to the
front of house if the if the venue was OK with it.
Of course, liability is a big thing.
Like that's the word first word that pops out of everybody's

(07:10):
mouth these days. But we did do a show in it was
in Tulsa and brought in a rescue.
They had a bunch of puppies and they had them out and they were
explaining their rescue. And I went up and said, oh, I
was like, you know, I had to seethe puppies.
And then I was like, can I borrow a couple of these?
I'm just going to take them for like an hour, you know, and take

(07:30):
them down. And they're like, oh, yeah,
yeah. So they helped me.
I had like 3 puppies. And we go through the halls and
of course it's just, you know, the whole hallway is just lit up
with like beautiful smiles and like, Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh.
And the venue, they were, they still continued to do it.
Like they were really great. They were like, oh, we love
doing that. And kind of changed their view
on doing, doing things like that.
And I went down and I, the, the chicks were in glam and I just

(07:55):
opened the door and I just shoved the puppies in.
I just like, and that was just, and then you just heard, Oh my
God, you know, and stop. I stopped all progress with the
glam team. I don't think they were super
happy with me. But like, and then I kind of
just let the puppies in there and about half an hour later I
go in and they're all just sitting around and they're just,
you know, just having a moment like, you know, having real

(08:17):
lives instead of our normal liketour life and, and the puppies
and I look over and Emily's got a puppy in her lap and, and she
said her husband is our monitor,is our monitor engineer.
And she said, can you call Martin on the radio and have him
come in? And I thought, oh fuck.
Oh shit. Yeah.
I just. So they had lost a dog that was

(08:38):
actually on on the road with us for a while, about a cup like 3
months before that, a dog that Martin had had for a long time.
And he's great, fantastic Rd. dog.
And and then he goes in and Emily's like, I want to take
this puppy home. So she ended up having she still
have her name's her name's, I think her name is Ezra and she

(09:01):
or Ezzy and she is, you know, turned out to be this great dog
and they they end up organizing with the charity.
They, you know, the rescue helped to get get her like
there. We'll hold on to the puppy until
you get off tour. And so, you know, and now Emily
has that. So they had that dog and then I

(09:21):
think she's had three or 4 rightnow because she a couple puppies
she found in the woods by her house, like just like random,
you know, just they're on a hikeand these like puppies run up.
So she end up keeping I think one or two of them and then
getting some adopted. So sadly that is out there where
people just have them and dump them and they just, you know,
there's too many rescues to helpto honestly, like it's hard to

(09:45):
find. It's hard to like define that
because it's like there's so many.
And I try to just do ones that are very specific, no kill and
rehome and are, you know, like Judy helps me with that.
So I've been very lucky to have someone that kind of researches
that for us. I really wish I could do so much
more than what I do here already.

(10:07):
Like I, I was saying before, like this winter alone, I've
managed to home 30 puppies and you know, one of them was a
litter of 10/1 of the you know, this, this little 1 now.
And sadly here in, in, in Greeceor Crete, where I am especially
there isn't the, there isn't, there isn't anywhere that they

(10:29):
go. So they're on the street.
No risk. Yeah, yeah.
They have babies and OK, people will not might, some people
might not like this now, but it,it's, it's the truth.
The local, I got to say the local people, it is the local
people, but it's the older people that don't know.
Oh, it's a hard one. They put poison down.
So they put poison down and theyget killed.

(10:50):
Now, when I first arrived here, I'd been on and off the island
for like 15 years now. You know, I was kind of like,
oh, this is disgusting. This is this, this is that.
But you know what? I I obviously I don't agree with
it, like I really don't. But yeah, when you have a small
village that is overpopulated with cats, with dogs having

(11:12):
babies and to get them sterilized is €100.
Now the average wage here is €50a day.
Right, right. You, you, you're not going to
spend money on getting sterilized.
And there's no, there's no charities, there's no backup.
The government doesn't back it up here.
So I mean, at one point I'll geton to this because I know you're
like walking. I do a lot of walking and it was

(11:35):
during, well, during the COVID time, I would be walking all the
mountains. And I mean, some of the dogs I
found would, I mean, in a state that you wouldn't even, it was
just just terrible chained up, but left because, you know, they
just leave them. I called the police.
I had a Greek friend with me called the police.
The police came up because you know, that's who you're meant to

(11:56):
call. And then they, you know, find
the solution. Right.
Shrug the shoulders. Yeah, you know, well, you know,
what can they do? So it is really bad, I said.
I mean, I try and do as much as I can here, like really I do by
saving them. I've had up to 10 dogs before
then some of them have been poisoned, which is

(12:17):
heartbreaking. I've found homes for them.
So it's, it's tough, but it's also, it's tough in other
countries. And I know that there are a lot
of charities here or volunteer, yeah, charities.
But you know, they, it is all volunteer work that they try and
home them and they go to other countries and you know, so

(12:38):
everyone's doing the best they can basically.
Yeah, here it's, it's the problem of, you know, it's the,
it's the pocket Princess dogs that people want to go purchase.
It's the, it's the puppy mills that people, you know, are, are
allowed to have. And, and I'm, I'm all for like,
if you want a purebred dog, I'm I'm for it.
But like there, it should be smaller, you know, more mom and

(13:00):
pop places where the animals aretreated better.
And I mean, there's some of these pet stores.
They'll just be, you know, linesof puppies and you're just like,
Oh my God, we put down thousandsa day.
Like, what are we doing? You know, and if you think about
the amount of money and, and time that people spend just
putting dogs down, you know, like, I don't understand why,

(13:22):
you know, just adding to that. It doesn't make any sense to me.
So like we, we have the ability like to get get them fixed.
Like, you know, there's cat programs I know for around out
here. I live kind of more on the
bottom of the Mount Hood outsideof Portland.
I'm about an hour outside of Portland and there's community,
you know, they, they round up the cats and they get them fixed

(13:43):
and they let them back out because if they can't find a
home for them, but at least they're fixed and they're not
just, you know, having babies everywhere, but you know, it's
but cats are a little different than cats can kind of survive,
shall we say, but dogs are different, you know, and it's,
it's frustrating when I mean allfour have your, have your

(14:04):
purebred dog, but know that there's probably so many dogs
just walking down a little aisleway and a rescue that is
just as good and just as happy and you know.
So and they've, you know, they've, they've probably, I
mean, all the rescue dogs, you know, they've got such this kind
nature that, you know, they're just so happy to have this home.
I mean, at one point I thought that all the dogs that I had,

(14:26):
they were just like going aroundthe streets going, oh, I know a
nice lady. She'll she'll feed you.
And they always, they always, well, I'm definitely allergic to
cats, but they always find me because I know I'm going to
probably give them a treat. Dogs, you know, always find me
like, and I'm sure they do you too.
They know. Oh, as I said, I mean, I've got
6 cats outside now. I've sterilized them all this

(14:46):
winter and there's another one Isaw popping over, you know, and
I, I, I try and do the best I can, you know, and that's it.
That's all you can really do andthe, and the same for me too,
like I try to, you know, I'll, I'll volunteer to like take dogs
on walks and things I wish I could foster.
Trust me, if I could, I, I have 2 1/2 acres here in a little

(15:07):
Creek of this beautiful piece ofproperty.
And I would love to have like 70dogs, like just, you know, but I
travel so. Yeah, exactly so.
Gizmo. I was going to say, does Gizmo?
Gizmo is your little pug dog? Does does?
Is it he or she? It's he.
He's. Does he go on tour with you?
He's come when we've been down to rehearsals, like I drove down

(15:31):
to LA, brought him with me when we're there, when I'm somewhere
for two or three weeks. But he's not a city dog.
He is very much kind of a farmer, farm type dog.
He he doesn't dig the cities andhe gets really hot.
So you have he's because he's got Pomeranian and he's just
covered him. I wish I maybe if we take a
break or something, I'll make sure to show them to you.

(15:53):
But he he's really fuzzy. So he just gets hot and I wish
he could go on the road. He's when we've done some local
like actually out by where Kristen lives and bend and we
did a run out in there and he did that run with me.
My friend brought him down and or my sister brought him down
and he he was with us on the road.
It was great because, you know. Because I think I've been on a

(16:15):
tour when there's been a dog andreally it just makes everybody
feel so much better. Every tour should have a dog.
Yeah, we, we've all, we always on the chicks.
We always have dogs. And we, I did Norah Jones, she
had her dog for a while. You know, like Bonnie Raitt, the
first tour I ever did, she had apoodle named Lexie.

(16:35):
And Lexie went everywhere. In fact, Lexie was out there.
Lexi became blind and and deaf and couldn't really, you know,
just really had to keep the stage the same every day, which
we did anyway because Lexi had her little spots that she'd go
to. But she, yeah, we, you know, so
I've like, always feel like I'm always on tour with dogs, like
one way or another, there's usually a dog out there.

(16:56):
So very, very lucky. Who was that?
Who was the last one? Who, who, What artist had the
dog? Bonnie Raitt Yeah, No, because
when I was. Looking at I was like looking at
like, you know, all the tours you've been on and things I
don't you was on you was the road manager on bet not bet
Midler. Oh gosh.

(17:16):
Sarah Burnie, Barbra Streisand. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Was that the European like? Yeah, it was.
Yeah, we did. Yeah, we did, I think.
I was on that with you. You were.
Yeah. That is really funny.
I know. So I've I've actually.
But you know what? That is one of those tours, man,

(17:38):
I got stories. I probably can't tell them like
you and I, but but I feel like Iwas kind of in this little like
bubble because I travelled with,you know, A&B party and helped
with the band and stuff and and and this very separated I I felt
so. Yeah, well.
The The funny thing, so I was onthe catering side, but there was

(18:00):
the the main dressing room guy was Rich Rock.
Yeah, OK, I think I remember that.
Yeah. Gosh, that was such a long time
ago, but. Yeah, well, I know it's such a
long time, but then when I when I saw on the, you know, 2000, I
was like, I did that, but I don't really remember if that
makes sense. Like it, you know, it was so far
away, but then I don't remember.There's a couple of people on

(18:21):
the crew that I've met since, but a lot of people, you know,
really just out there. And I was like Mindy, I was
like, and I nearly tried to likeGoogle the the day sheets just
to to see if we were. But yeah.
So he was more a a yeah, he was.Yeah, I mean, there was, there
was times where sometimes I, youknow, get people in cars and

(18:41):
then there'd be things at the hotel that need to be done and
I, you know, I'd have to go do them and deal with them and, and
sometimes didn't even come over to the gig.
So it was a that was an interesting, that was an
interesting one. I was going covering for Marty
Ham, who I don't know if you've,he's kind of a mentor of mine,
really. He's amazing.
We had him on the other podcast,Geez of Gear.
Oh, you did. That's right.
You did. That's right.

(19:01):
Yeah. So yeah, he was.
He was doing something else. And and myself and Dan McGee
went out there to cover for him.He might have.
He might have been like, you know, he overlaps a lot of
tours. I'm not that type of person.
I don't have that brain capacitythat Marty has to do that.
So I, I, I'm glad that he does, but I, I can't.
So we went in to cover that run for him and it was, it was

(19:22):
interesting. It was, you know, when you don't
set up a tour and you just go and you work it like I'm now I'm
so used to I my mind is program it logistics and then when
you're just shoved out there andlike, OK, get him from point A
to point B. It's I find that a little more
challenging these days, like because I'm so used to prepping
everything and knowing everything really well.

(19:44):
You know, some of that's like learning on the fly, which is
definitely has us challenges, especially within that that big
of a but. Can I ask when did you, Yeah,
when did you start in the industry and how did you start?
Like what? What's the background team?
I actually, so when I was in high school in Eastern Oregon,

(20:04):
my sister would take me. She's older and she, my dad
allowed, allowed me to go with her, which if he knew that what
went on when we went, he probably wouldn't because I
think I was like the someone without a driver's license
driving, you know, driving these, it was different times
back then, but you know, drivingthese older kids that probably
shouldn't have been driving definitely did my share of

(20:27):
driving without my driver's license.
I do remember that. But we'd go to Seattle all time
and go to concerts in Portland and I just fell in love with the
just always fascinated with the backstage world and, and all of
it, you know, just watching people and, and then I, I then,
you know, we're, I was an MTV kid, so we had a lot of like, I
thought I wanted to do music videos.

(20:48):
I went to the Art Institute in Seattle and really wanted to
focus on video and, and that kind of production.
It was kind of, there wasn't really anywhere to do anything
like that back then. You know, like now there's more
options for people to, you know,get schooling for our industry.
Back then there really, really wasn't.

(21:09):
And so the artist suit was kind of the closest I could really
find. And I met a few people there
that I went to school with that like started a stagehand company
and out at the Gorge and at Tacoma Dome.
And I was thought for sure I wasdoing video.
But I went and I started doing internships and in like the

(21:30):
local news stations and things. And, and then I worked at this
place where they, you know, theyhad like an editing suite and I
hated it. I was like, this job is so
fucking boring. I and it's not, it wasn't music
related either, but it's kind ofwhat you had to pay your dues.
And so my friend called me. He's like, hey, I need I need
people out the gorge. Do you want to come out and, you
know, work. And I was like, yeah, let's

(21:52):
let's do it. And I started state being
stagehand out there with him andhis company grew quickly.
We end up getting a lot of venues and he started, you know,
I started supervising doing, youknow, it did every job like
rigged, you know, stagehand runner, everything and and just

(22:14):
gave up on the on the other sideof it just was like, I can't, I
don't I don't want to really. I can just going to start.
Yeah. Yeah, it just wasn't for me
anymore. And I just, I was working, you
know, I, I kept really busy between, you know, working
locally is hard. Like you have to, you have to be
a hustler. You have to hustle.
You have to hustle all kinds of gigs.

(22:35):
And I was lucky enough that I did that and I had people, you
know, believe and trust in me because like, you know, being a
woman stagehand back then, I wasmaybe there was maybe two of us
or three of us and it was brutal.
Like to where people didn't quite get it.
Local people were you had peoplethat understood, but you know,
sometimes you got support, but alot of times you didn't.

(22:57):
So it was, it was a very, it wasa harsh reality.
Like it's like kids nowadays, you know, they have no idea like
what women went through back back then.
And so, but I stuck with it and he was great.
He he had me supervising and stage managing.
What? Kind what?
What year was this? Just to get an idea.
Probably 95949594, something like that.

(23:22):
I did that for it was it was a different, it was a different
thing, but but also amazing to take like the people that did
support me and like, like, let'sgo, you know, like because I was
great. You know, I was just
logistically, I just have one ofthose brains and I was a hard
worker. And so I started doing a lot of

(23:42):
stage managing for him and that led me to stage managing some
really cool local gigs. Like I don't know if you ever
heard of Bumper Shoot Festival, but there's a great festival in
Seattle, tons of music, like a couple weeks of music.
I, I, I stage managed mainstage there met a lot of touring
people doing that. But one of my favorite gigs was

(24:05):
being a runner. And it was favorite, but it was
also one of those jobs that's like really hard.
But I discovered, you know, theywere renting towels all the
time. And my friend started this like
kind of towel thing. He was buying towels and renting
them. He moved.
He's like, hey, I'm going to give you my towel business.
And I'm like, what? I'm like, OK, well, yeah, bring
it. And I got to know so many.

(24:26):
I did every show in town after that.
I had towels. I bought myself a van.
So I rented myself my van. I had my towels.
I at some point, at one point I was doing dressing room
ambiance. I bought like furniture I had
and a storage thing and I was moving shit around.
I mean, it was like you had to, but I worked all the time.
And that's How I Met Bonnie Raitt because she was in town

(24:49):
doing a private show and then she had a regular show.
She was in town for like a week and I had met her, her her
production manager somewhere in in the mix of all of that.
And he knew I knew I had a van and he called me and he said,
you know, is there any chance you could drive Bonnie?
She doesn't really love limo. She doesn't, you know, like I

(25:09):
think you're being in your personal van everything but like
this kind of her vibe. And I was like, sure.
So I picked up the airport, drove around for a week, got
along through great, went into this venue.
Her dressing room was horrible. I was like, oh, let me go get
some stuff and spoof up her roombecause she had to be there for
a couple days. And she found out I did that.
And we just hit it off, you know, like we just, we were in
the car, she'd sit in the front seat.
We talked. I was taken to the airport when

(25:32):
it was all done. And she said, you know, my
assistant's been with me a long time, but she, she, she's having
a baby or something and she's leaving.
Would you want to come on the road?
And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. But then I hadn't really
thought, you know, I thought of that because I had man, I was
dialed, I had my shit dialed in like, you know, locally.

(25:53):
And she's like, well, I'll have,I'll have Kai call you.
And so I, the next day he calledme and he's like, do you want to
do this? And I was like, yeah, let's, you
know, let's do it. And I handed off my towel
business, sold my stuff, like, kind of like, OK, I'm going to
give this a shot. And then that was it.
I went out there and met, you know, met Marty Hom was the tour
manager on that. And he called me up one day and

(26:16):
said, hey, can you come have lunch with me?
And he was amazing. He said, you know, I know you
haven't toured before. I know you've worked locally.
I know you know what you're doing.
But, you know, let's, I'm going to show you.
I'm going to tell you how I run things.
And this is what I do. And he was very like, like to
take time out of his busy day tohave lunch.
You know, he was at the SorrentoHotel in Seattle and never
forget it. And he was on it.

(26:38):
He was on another tour, but he took time to call me.
And it's like, you know, like give me an opportunity.
Yeah. And and I went out and worked
out and then from there, you know, from there, it's just word
of mouth. I just from that I went, I went
over to the Chicks land for a long time and then bounced back
and forth between them and Bonnie.

(26:58):
And then, you know, I just I've done, you know, so many
different things. A lot of lady artists.
I don't. It's not something like I seek
out. It's just what comes to me and
it and it works. So.
With the chicks, you've been with them, you say, 25 years
now. Yeah, yeah.
Started as an assistant for the three of them, their first big

(27:19):
arena tour, and just kept. It was very Nashville set up
very Nashville. And when I say that, it means
like, you know, like the production manager was also tour
managing. There wasn't really like a a
road manager. They do back.
It's a little better now, but Nashville just had like a
different way of kind of organizing a tour more of like

(27:40):
then like the normal rock shows would.
And so I had to kind of adapt tothat because I had been pro, you
know, like I knew the Bonnie world, which was a lot
different. And so I end up from that that
job. I end up doing a lot of things,
end up Rd. managing and just there's just so many jobs that
needed to be covered on that. And eventually we kind of got it

(28:02):
to where like it really, really needs to be like with staffing.
And I mean, it worked, but they're still like, you know, it
was just a different time back then.
You would never be able to kind of do the way they did it.
You know, now like it's, it's different.
But yeah. And from there I, you know,
they, I Rd. managed for a long time and then, you know, there

(28:22):
was tour managers that came and went and eventually they are
just like, can you just do it? You're kind of doing it anyway.
And which I kind of was. So I was like, you know, OK,
let's do it. And then I.
Yeah. You know.
Hard working yeah Rd. Managed doing everything but I
love the fact that you know you've come from not come from

(28:42):
but you had your successful tower business and it's through
yes driving and. Driving, I mean, you don't.
Know what the opportunities are,which is what I always say here,
you know. You never know.
You don't know who you sat. Well, you knew who you sat next
to, but you don't know who you're going to meet, where that
opportunity is going to take you.
And like, really that's. And being kind to people, I

(29:06):
mean, like, you know, like you never know who's going to be
your next opportunity. You know, like this business is
all about who you know, you can,you can know everything, but if
you don't know any anybody to help get you where you need to
go, then you're not going to go,you know, so being kind to
people and being like professional across the board

(29:28):
with literally anyone. And, and just that's my
philosophy anyway. I want to walk into a hotel,
walk into a venue and at the endof when you walk out, they're
like, Oh, that's great. That's a great team.
That's a solid team. They had their shit together,
they're professional, they were nice.
You know, you're representing the artists.
Like I think that that's super, super important and you know,
you never know what's going to come from that from either

(29:49):
people at the venue or people onthe tour or, you know, just like
I've had a lot of times people call me like, hey, I work with
you and you seem really great. So I passed your name along and
it end up being, you know, the pass my name along to a gig that
worked great. You know, it was a fun gig.
So like you have to know that like everything you're doing and
everybody out there is an opportunity to go further.

(30:12):
If you want to, you can. You don't have to go further,
but you know, if you want to, it's out there.
It's just all how you treat people and.
There's a lot of people that, you know, I've seen it, you
know, very not too faced as such, but yeah, put on the face
for people that they think are the important and.
Disrespect. If you're not, you're treated

(30:33):
like crap. Yeah.
And, you know, and I see it and it's, you know, I've said this
many times on here before. I don't know how these people
still get jobs and they still keep on going and like they.
Do though. And they do.
And I say this all the time because, you know, say like
yourself, you know, if you couldsee someone that's like that,

(30:53):
you know, you're going to pull, pull them to one side or, or not
hire them. But then they get hired by these
people. And I'm like, dude, can you not
see that? You know, like when you're not
in the room, they're just nasty.Yeah, I've fired people for like
really horrible things. I don't like firing people.
I really take it like I take it really seriously when you're

(31:13):
firing somebody because everybody's got families and,
and, and a job's super and you know, it's a, it's a big deal.
So if I'm firing you, it's like you really got to fuck up really
bad. Because I do give people
opportunities to, to fix their fuck ups.
But I have fired people for likesome really horrible things and
then found out like the next day, like they're working on

(31:35):
another tour. And I'd be like, bro, what the
fuck is happening? Why is how are you just walking
off on my tour for something really fucked up?
And then you're just like working the next day?
Especially after COVID, like COVID, it was like if you were
breathing and you had half a brain, you were working, you
know, like it was like there's hard, it was hard to find

(31:55):
people. So, you know, I think like it
blows my mind. I've worked and I've worked with
people that are just, I mean, you know, tour managers,
production for the most part, I've had really, I've been
really lucky. But there's a couple or you're
just like production managers isa hard one because they just get
torn all over. But they can be they can be so

(32:17):
mean to people sometimes. And you're like, what is
happening? Why?
It doesn't really need to be like that.
Like, yeah, sometimes someone needs to yell at.
I give you that. Sometimes people need to know,
like, OK, I'm raising my boys right now because you're not
paying attention. Or whatever.
But for the most part, yeah, it is, it is amazing how, how, how

(32:39):
that is. And you know, what's sad is that
like, we don't have HR out here.We don't have like any, you
know, there's not like they could like, you know, I am the
HR. So like if you got an HR problem
or, or the production manager's HR, you're supposed to
technically contact that person now.
Now management's getting better about like, OK, you can contact

(33:00):
this person in management and separating it a bit.
It depends on who you work for. Not everybody does that, but you
know, so there isn't anybody, there's nobody to advocate for
these crew people who just get it's.
Actually true because I mean even if I mean normally you'd
also go to, you know, your crew chief first and then it would be
taken to a. Lot of times it's probably your

(33:20):
crew chief that's giving you such a hard time.
But this is what I was going to say is probably like, how can
you go to the person that's actually causing the issues?
So I've never really thought that there isn't an HR.
I mean, I talk a lot about support with, you know, like
mental health when you're on tour.
But actually, yeah, yeah, an HR somebody that you can go to, you

(33:40):
know that you can bring it up, bring things up there isn't
that, is there? It's, it's not really, I mean,
like I said, they're getting better about like management and
you know, and liability is such a thing now like that.
They're like some, sometimes they'll like if you have a
problem, you have to report it and then contact this person.
And sometimes there's someone ina management company that will

(34:02):
take, take on that role. But really it's, it's, it should
be the production manager and myself like that gets, you know,
brought to our attention. You know, I have a very open
door policy. People that work for me know
that like you can, you can, you know, you can bring bring it to
me. We can talk about it.
Let's let's talk it out. And sometimes that creates like

(34:24):
things that be talked out. Maybe that's that like maybe
should have went to a crew chieffirst or whatever, you know, but
it's hard. But there.
I mean, I, I, I look out for my crew and bad people all the time
because if, you know, if you left it up to accountants and
people and management, nothing against management people, but
they don't live on the road. They don't know what it's like

(34:45):
to have a rate that you're trying to get.
And that rate may seem high, butit's like, well, that rate's
high because they only work fivemonths a year and they're away
from home and they leave everything and they literally
you get purchased for this amount of time and you leave
everything in your life for that.
And it does, it is, there is a cost for that, you know, so
there has to be somebody that, you know, there's no agent to go

(35:06):
to, you know, like, unless you're like a lighting designer
or somebody that has an agent, like there isn't anybody looking
out for people. So I, I do find I, I really, I
take that very seriously. Like I take my job taking care
of the people as seriously as I do, doing what the artist needs
to do and keep within their budget.
But there also is times where like we really have to take care
of the people because without your people, without a team, I'm

(35:30):
nothing. I can't go out there by myself,
you know, and I don't know how to do lighting or, you know,
there's so many things on the tour.
I don't not only do I not know how to do it, I do not want to
do it. Didn't pay me enough money.
Be a monitor engineer. Great skill.
You know what, like there's a hot seat every night, you know,
So at I, I like to take care of people on the road.

(35:51):
But it's, it's kind of, it boggles my mind.
It's really. Refreshing to hear because you
don't hear that a lot, you know?Oh, I took some time off last
year and I, I had, I had knee surgery and then I had my, my
parents with me and my dad end up falling and he anyway, I had
to, I had my parents with me forlike 4 or five months.
And I kind of miss windows. You know how it is on touring,

(36:11):
like if you miss a window, like you get close to a season, it's
like, oh shit, it's July. Like I don't have any, you know,
like you're probably not gonna either.
You're probably either I done for the rest of the year or
you're gonna get something late fall.
And so I'd missed some windows. So I didn't know when my dad was
leaving and when I was done, I was like, scared.
I'm just going to do the summer in Mindy and go have a good time
and camp and and and hike and bewith my dog and see my family.

(36:32):
It was really great. But I got a number of calls
from, you know, because I have ateam of people and I was like,
I'm really sorry everyone. I got to just take this year
off. I've been planning for it
anyway. I've got to do this.
I had some knee surgeries, had some meniscus tears on my knees
and whatnot. And that took six months because
of both knees and. And I'm like, no, yeah, man,

(36:54):
gigging. All those years of gigging and
you know I've. Never really spoken about that,
the wear and tear of the body, but yeah, the wear and tear of
the body, so. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, and then once I tried tofought through it in the one leg
through a whole tour and it was painful.
And then I ended up messing up the other knee in the process
because you're wearing a brace on the other one and you're you

(37:16):
know, you know, you know what it's like we work.
We walked 10 miles a day up and down stairs and stressing and on
and off of a bus and carrying bags and all that.
And yeah. And so I instead of just like
saying I need to go home for three months and sort this out,
which could you imagine, say, I can never say that as, as, you
know, in any position really. So like, I, I was like, well,

(37:37):
I'll go get through this tour and I'll take this time off and,
and, and then, and you know, theparents thing made it a little
longer, but I had a lot of people on my team call me, you
know, various things happen and I'm like, OK, here's what,
here's how you, here's what you should do.
And, and you know, I mean, then like at least like four or five
of them, which isn't, which isn't a lot, but it's like, if
you think about it, it's like that's four or five people on a,

(37:59):
on various tours that are like sitting out there going, I don't
know what to do here. Like I'm having a problem with
so and so or I'm, you know, I have this issue or, and they
didn't even know who to call, you know, and I think that's
unfortunate. You know, like you should, you
should, you have a responsibility.
You know, we ultimately we work for the artists and that's the

(38:20):
biggest responsibility. But there is also a
responsibility for the people that work for you and your team.
You know it's important. I believe that having, you know,
having a, a good team, you know,and uplifting others, you know,
is, is a huge thing because if you have a crew that's down,
everything else is gonna be down.

(38:40):
Yep, everything will be down. And I don't know what makes a
great crew yourself being the tour manager filtering down, you
know? Yeah.
And you know, the other thing islike, you know, sometimes, you
know, I'm a big fan to give people of giving people
opportunities, especially women,because women get we get
pigeonholed into being only certain jobs and the pay scales

(39:03):
for those jobs are always lower.I've been, I've been blown away
at some of the budgets I've seenover the years.
I'm like, why is that person who's working all day make $1000
bucks a week less than that person?
Like that shit is bullshit. And so I, I tried to fix that on
my tours and it's not easy because there's a mentality
there of like, well, that's whatthat job pays.
And it's like, but that person is there all fucking day, you

(39:25):
know, like they're there longer than than the carp is.
Or I mean, you know, you know, like, and I get it, like every
skill levels are different, but it's sometimes you have someone,
you give them an opportunity andmaybe they're struggling a bit.
And instead of like in in my world, it'd be like, OK,
everybody, we're not going to like pile on that person and

(39:45):
make that person feel shitty about not knowing what they're
doing. We're going to take that person
and make them, you know, great and make them part of our team.
And I've, I've done that over the years, you know, like I
think that people, if you give people the opportunity in a
positive way and you help get them there, you can hire a list,
you can hire the A list people across the board and get lucky.

(40:07):
And you're like, OK, I got a list people.
I don't even think about all these people.
But that doesn't happen anymore.A&B&C and people, you know, as
far as just their like level of,you know, their touring level,
like in their experience, I guess.
And so like it's, it's fine to run a tour with all A's if you
have the money and, and, and theability and you're got lucky and

(40:29):
they're, you don't have any problems.
But to make a tour successful, you take the people that are in
this B&C level and move them theA and the A take those B&C and
they move, they get them there. That's what touring should be
about. It should be about like, OK,
we're all going to like take this person and like make them
better at this job and make them, you know, instead of like
the beat down, which you know, I'm sure that you've seen like

(40:50):
just if someone's just struggling a little and
sometimes people, not every job's for everybody.
Like I've had to be like that job's not for you.
We got to, we got to shuffle that, you know, but if they're
happy to be here. If you've got a people reacting
the way that you want them to, to help the B, the C grow up,

(41:12):
then the B and the C they, they,they're going to want to be
better. You have someone that's beating
you down and being horrible. And trust me, like I, I, I did.
I was only talking about to my boss, the other literally just
now about a tour I needed one week.
They just called me just to helpout for a week.
The crew chief, I mean, horrible, just just horrible.

(41:36):
And for me, I was like, there's no need for that, you know,
making people cry, being nasty. I was like, I just didn't.
And like, I was there for a week.
So I kind of just, you know, buttoned up did my job.
But I, I, I, you know, I had to say something.
I was like, this isn't the rightbehaviour.
But then out on another tour like.

(41:59):
I don't, I don't know if that I don't know, I don't know what,
how to fix that. Like I've, I've had many
conversations, you know, like there'll be times around like I
don't sit at home much, you know, like I get like I pretty
much, you know, there's work outthere.
My problem with my with my networking is that I've worked
for the same artist for a long time.
So when that artist takes a break, I have less networking

(42:21):
than people that are constantly,you know, shuffling through
tours. And so sometimes it takes me a
little bit while, a little whileto get like, hey, I'm available,
you know, because people are always like, oh, she's with the
chicks, don't call her or whatever, you know?
But I've seen people get offeredjobs where I'm just like, what?
What Huh. You know, And I've seen them do

(42:43):
things that are awful and still just go on from 1 tour to the
next. And I don't really know how to
fix that. I just try to do it within my
own system. Like and I've, I've had, I've
had bad eggs, you know, and I have not handled them, You know,
in hindsight, like get done witha tour and go, man, I should
have, I should have fired that person.

(43:04):
And like, instead we know we tried to make it through because
my mentality is like, let's try to let's uplift everybody.
Let's try to fix it. Let's try to get everyone on the
same page. But in reality was I probably
should have just fired those people.
And it's only happened a few times in my career.
But you know, it's like, OK, you're, you're not going to work
like we gotta get somebody else.But it's awesome.

(43:25):
You know, we're all under whatever role you've got.
You're under a lot of pressure. You know, I'm, I'm, you know,
aware of that. And sometimes the schedule can
be hectic. It can be, you know, full on and
you've just got a travel day foryour rest day.
We know these these schedules can happen.
Sure. But it still doesn't for me.

(43:46):
It doesn't excuse your behavior if you're then nasty like it
doesn't. You know, for me, as soon as I
join a tour, this is what you'llsee for the whole time I'm away.
Doesn't matter if it's a week, doesn't matter if it's two
months. Could be four months really.
And if it means that when there is a down time, I take my own

(44:08):
time. I go for a walk.
I, I, I know you like walking. I love.
Walking me too, I'll. Search somewhere when we arrive
in a city, it could be a catching a 30 minute train ride
out. There's a park somewhere I'll go
to nature to to draw myself backin.
And for me that then makes me a better person for doing that,

(44:31):
you know, the next day. But yes, we're tired sometimes.
I don't know. Everybody's tired and everybody
you don't know what people are going through, you know, like
and sometimes just a check in, like hey, what's up buddy?
I noticed, you know, you got a frown, like let's turn that
upside down or whatever, you know, trying to be dorky with it
or whatever. But like, you know, like there's
times you just need to check in with your people, like what's
up, You know, what do you got going on?

(44:52):
You have something going on. Oh well man, you know, wife's
this or that or my dog was put down.
You know that you never know what people are going through,
So you have to give people the benefit of the doubt.
I do believe that, but sometimesyou know that once that doubt
is. I've, I've always remember and
I've told this story before, butyou know, someone came in and

(45:12):
they were really just so horrible.
And I was like, first of all, the first reaction is to react
to the horribleness. Yeah, be like, no.
Yeah, just just just hold back. And then I did, went up and
spoke to them. And I try and do that if I am
ever on a tour, talk to people, you know, and say, are you OK?
Or you know, whatever, whatever it might be.

(45:33):
Because I think talking now has really helped, like really,
really helped. And I often get because I'm, I'm
now I'm based remotely, but I'llactually get quite a few people
from friends on tours that will call me and just say, oh, I just
need to, I just need to. Talk.
I just need a minute to vent andyou know, like, yeah, I know
because. You know there is.

(45:55):
In fact, you probably know this better.
Someone had told me and that Marty Holm actually on when he
can, he would actually put a therapist on tour.
Is that true or is that just a rumor?
It is there is there is some there's more outlets for that
now. I think that he has done that
hasn't on a tour that I have been on with him.

(46:17):
But I'm not surprised that that's happening nowadays in in
the bigger in in the bigger tours.
I'm not surprised. It's it's, you know, it's like,
you know, it's kind of needed, like I, I could see where you
could, you could definitely havesomeone come out and just be
like closed door. They got a space.
You can go talk about things. Our our industry doesn't, you

(46:40):
know, doesn't. I don't want to say we don't
believe in it, but it's just like the show must go on.
Mentality is how we approach everything.
And even though we're humans, you know, like shits, other
shits happening in our lives, but when we're on the road,
everyone just assumes it's just Rd. stuff and when there could
be a whole whole other list of things happening with somebody
that. You know, well, I think in fact,

(47:02):
it's only just really come to me, but I was, I used to say a
lot that I love the idea of, youknow, a therapist going on tour
and this that and the other. But actually, I think you'd get
a lot of people that wouldn't want to walk through that door
because of the. Wouldn't want to be seen going
in there. Yeah.
And so for me, you know, yes, I've, I've kind of, I've always

(47:24):
thought what a great idea and I've been an advocate for like,
wow, you know, more, more, more tour managers get this done.
But actually having the resources for people to go to
the hotel room to have a somebody to talk to like the
like we're doing now. Yeah, just a zoom, you know,
just. Yeah.
And that goes through like Echo live now.

(47:46):
They're doing lots of stuff behind the scenes.
They're doing lots of stuff. So, you know, there's there's
there's resources out there to help people.
Yeah, there's. No, no, I mean, you bring up
good point. I mean, it's something like, you
know, to think about for like future tours, like is that
something, you know, we, we can offer people?

(48:08):
I mean, you know what I like to do, you know, safety, more
safety things like, you know, offer ACPR class couple 1000
bucks. But everybody is to come in and
learn CPR and you know, things like that.
But you know, the mental, the mental health side of it should
be thought of in the same way. Like we all, you know, we all
need our own mental CPR out there besides just the, you

(48:31):
know, going to the pub or whatever, which is like for me,
that's I love, I love walking todive bars.
Like I find like the diviest. I'm like, what if I have time?
I rarely have time. My days off for me are usually
in my hotel room anyway. But if I'm like, OK, I'm just
gonna get out. Like that's my thing.
I like to go to, I like to find the diviest of dive bars, like
borderline sketch, you know, like that's just like my

(48:51):
assistant. And I love it just because it's
like something to do. It's like your thing to go take
your walk, you know? But I mean, nature's always
first choice. But that's pretty rare that I
get time to like leave where I maybe my phone didn't work or
something, you know? Yeah, but.
A But a dive bar, that is exactly what I would always look
for. You know, something that's a
little bit quirky and not anything fancy.

(49:12):
Scary but. No, but just, you know, just a
really like something that you might you wouldn't normally go
there or not normally go there, but you say or the rest of the
tour, the crew aren't there. But like, you know, maybe maybe
the one person that's like you, that goes a little bit out the
way to find it and you're like, OK, we're on the same page.

(49:33):
Yeah, the word was out a little on my on my last one and that
people are like, where are you going?
I'm like, no, I'm not. You know who was a handful of
this ago? Not that you didn't want to see
people, but sometimes you don't,you know, like, and that's OK
too. Like I tell people all the time,
like it's OK if you don't want to go out on like if we do like
the group dinner or whatever, like, dude, I get it.
Like go for a walk, you know, get go get fob by yourself,

(49:55):
whatever, you know, tie whateveryou need.
You like I get if you don't wantto go out with the group because
going out with the group is painful, you know, like where's
everybody want to go and how arewe paying?
And so but, but, but that is butsome people like that and that
helps them, you know, So I one of the things I learned.
You know, I can do both. I can go, I can be social, I can

(50:16):
be, you know, part of the group.But then I also, like I said, I
also know when I just need my like my own space.
But the last tour I did was withMuse.
And it was funny that you, you say that like.
So I used to, yeah, as I said, look at where I could go and go
to little places that, yeah, were off of the beaten track.

(50:38):
And by the time everybody, when I came back, I was then telling
everybody what an amazing time Ihad.
And everyone was like, oh, oh, OK.
So then by the end of it, peoplewere they're like, can I come
with you? Yeah.
When you're like, yeah, bring iton.
Like we, we try to do, you know,outings like, you know, like
let's run a couple SUV's and go on a hike.

(50:59):
Or we did, we did fishing a lot on the Chicks had a lot of
people like to fish. And so we'd find, you know, the
drummer and I would get up early, we'd go find a place to
go fishing and said, you know, we did barbecues.
We did, we did that a lot on in on the chicks because we they
like to get out too. Like they'd be right out, you
know, right out in there. And we toured with so many kids
back and there was nine of them,nine kids at some point.

(51:22):
And so we did a lot of family activity, a lot of baseball
games, a lot of, you know, they went to the zoo all the time and
everything. But in general, I was, you know,
one of the things Marni taught me was, you know, you got to do
that. You got to do the events, You
got to do the, the bowling, the ping pong parties, the bowling
parties out to dinner or everyone's at the bar, you know,
throw the credit card down, buy some drinks or things that like,

(51:44):
you know, just makes people feellike you're they're thought of.
And you know, it's like after doing an event where like, I
know for for me, I've noticed like when we would do at events,
like we did a lot of bowling parties and I would draw names
out of hats for the teams because lighting would wanna be
together. Audio would wanna be together.

(52:05):
And it's like, no, no, no, we'remixing it up cuz.
And I would make the chicks weregreat about that cuz I'd make
them just be on a random with the lighting or whoever.
And they're like, yeah, who are we on with today?
And they got and they loved it. They asked that, you know, the
next day they're, you know, waving out, they're talking to
their people and talking shit because somebody won, you know,
like that whole thing and the whole next day like that for

(52:26):
actually for weeks after that, like them getting to know their
people that are out there with them busting their ass like was
important and they loved it and they still love it.
You know, like we, we've done ping.
We did a ping pong tournament where, you know, Marty was
slamming it with the stage manager, you know, to win the
money for, you know, the, for the, you know, we had a pot of
who would win and things like that.

(52:47):
And, you know, talking shit to one another and just, you know,
and that's, that's important Andand I don't think enough
tourists do that. I always try to do it.
I try to save catering money. Like, OK, if we didn't spend
that catering money, let's take that and go bowling or whatever.
Yeah, hard part about COVID. It shopped, stopped all of that.
We couldn't do those things and it changed it totally changed
the vibe of touring. COVID did, but when it came to.

(53:10):
Is it, do you feel that it's now?
I mean, I, I haven't been on a tour, OK, last last year for a
week doesn't, doesn't count. But I haven't been on tour since
before COVID. So in fact, my, which again made
me laugh because the tour I was due to go on and I was leaving,
I don't know, two days before I got the cancellation.

(53:30):
It was actually Avril Lavigne. So oh.
OK. Yeah.
So it was actually so that the one I saw that you're now tour
manager for that. So I haven't worked in the in
the industry touring since COVID.
So I don't know how much it's changed or how much people have
wanted change when they came back.

(53:51):
And has it gone back to normal like let's say normal like?
You know, taking last year off what it probably would have been
the first year of like really seeing how normal it might have
went back to 22 and 23 was, you know, when we really got out
there, it was totally different.I mean, well, did you know, just

(54:11):
dealing with the COVID and the masks and the six foot and the
testing every day and being the person, you know, that had to
deal with that, like had to like, OK, someone's positive,
OK, how do we adjust that? You know, we had there's a lot
of different protocols. Some people had the same, some
people, you know, it was different.
Some people didn't care about protocols, but you're still

(54:34):
dealing with people's health. So you had to take it.
You had to take it seriously. Last the last, the year after
that when it was less COVID, butit was still kind of around was
still challenging. But I think for me that the the
biggest part is we lost so many people.
We lost a lot of people that like we're at home going, oh
shit, I can go to that BBQ or that graduation and you know,

(54:54):
went to Costco, went to Amazon, whatever it may be, or found a
local, you know, might have got lucky and found a local theater
gig or something. We lost a lot of really good
people to call to go to work. So that for me that was the
hardest part. Like there was a lot of influx
of a lot of younger that maybe didn't have the experience and

(55:15):
then you're dealing with COVID at the same time.
So I didn't find it fun. I in fact, I always come home
and be like, I don't know if this is for me anymore, but I
think, you know, I think we're getting, I think we're getting
back there. I think we're getting back too.
And do you think the people thatyou know stayed, let's say
stayed home, got normal ish jobs?
Yeah. Do you think they've still

(55:36):
stayed away or do you think slowly, slowly they?
Yeah, I think, I mean, for the ones that I know have, you know,
occasionally they might want to do like a, a shorter run or
something. But I think, I think, you know,
I think most of them have and I don't blame them.
I mean, you know, like taking the time off last year for
myself and for my family, like it's hard.
Like I'm, you know, I'm advancing everything now.

(55:57):
It's hard to get in the office and you're like, it's nice out
and your dog's like, hey, what'sup?
Are we going to hike today? Like, Nah, shit.
But yeah, it's, I think it's getting better.
I think we're getting, you know,getting back to reality of like
to our world. We'll see.
This year is my first one kind of back when it's like where no

(56:19):
one's even really worried about COVID.
You know, obviously I like, I think people when people get
sick on the road, they should put a mask on.
Like if you're sick, just put a mask on.
Not like like hopefully now thatlike wearing a mask isn't like
as big of a like whatever it wasbefore.
And people like if you're sick, you know, don't go hang out with
people and put your mask on and,you know, don't spread it around

(56:39):
even it doesn't even matter thatit's COVID.
Like no one wants to get sick onthe road.
That's the worst thing ever. So I mean.
One thing, you know, there'd be so many times, yeah, people
getting sick. I mean, even now.
I mean, I was really sick after Christmas and the first first
question, is it COVID? And I, you know, I did a test,
it wasn't, but I was sick. So I.
Stayed in around Christmas time as well.

(57:01):
Yeah, yeah. It stuck around for three weeks.
Yeah. Yeah.
It was one month to full recovery, even 55 weeks full
recovery from when I was sick, 2weeks, my mind foggy, fever,
everything. But it wasn't COVID.
So they were like, well, you canyou, you can go out.
I was like, no, I'm not going togive this.

(57:21):
Yeah. And then later on I saw people
that were out and I was like, what are you doing out?
Right. Yeah, it's.
Not COVID, yeah, but it's some other stinking virus, yeah.
It's it's something else for sure that you know, it's like
COVID hybrid. I I think it is out some of the
you know, because I I have neverreally gotten sick like I have

(57:42):
and, you know, just for weeks ata time.
But but you know, that's anotherthing about the road is like
people get sick and people, you know, we have to, you know, like
adapt, adapt to like, OK, who's going to cover them for that
show tonight? They should be allowed to go get
on the bus and go to bed, you know, or but you know, like we

(58:02):
don't really, we're not programmed to do that.
And obviously certain positions like can't, you know, if your
automation guy probably don't, you know, you might have a
number two that can cover it andyou might not, you know, so
that's the unfortunate part of our business is that we don't,
you know, we, we just it's go, go, go show, show has to happen.
And hopefully we're getting hopefully one thing about COVID

(58:24):
is hopefully that kind of changed that view like it's if
you're sick, put a mask on. If you're like, dude, I need to,
I just need to go to bed. Can someone cover me tonight or
I need to go to hotel tonight, whatever.
Like, that should be OK, you know, like, like that should be
not frowned upon, you know, But yeah.
I think. I think it still is though,
sadly. It is and I and I get and I, you

(58:45):
know, being like depending on who the person is, because
sometimes there might be that one person on the road.
You're like, OK, it's you. I know it's happening, but you
know, yeah. But you know, overall, like the,
I love what I do. It's just there's definitely
some some things with how we deal with with people that I

(59:06):
wish would be, you know, reversed a little bit and
changed around a little bit so. I mean, what would you obviously
you're doing now, you're doing alot of prep work.
So you're going on to Avril Lavigne this year, Yep.
And is she is around Europe or is it just stateside?
Canada and states, she did a runlast year and so this is more of

(59:28):
a bee market run and hitting some more casinos and festivals,
amphitheaters, this one so someone else you know put
essentially put this together and there that tour managers not
here anymore I know the production manager well I've
worked with him so he called me and said hey their tour managers
not coming back can you step in so that's a little harder

(59:52):
because I haven't been involved in like the routing or you know
like they kind of have their system but I have to adapt to
that but also bring them into mysystem because.
Some of the ways I I, I do things, you know, I have to do
it my way. Like there's just, you know, if
I'm going to be responsible for things that has you also have to
understand my way of doing it. So this is a little bit a bit of

(01:00:15):
a challenge of just getting not they seem all seem very like
nice people and everything. It's just like, you know,
there's a lot of stuff already done that I would normally maybe
would have had a little input onto either change differently or
done things a little differently.
But I was able to bring my Rd. manager out that's been with me
a long time. And he he's like Wiz kid

(01:00:35):
amazing. Like he's better at like
compute. You know, we do everything on
master tour and air table for receipts and he's really great
about getting all that stuff lined up.
So this one's a this one's a little different, like we're
doing more counting on this one that I normally do.
So every tour, every tour is different.
You just have to kind of look atit and OK, how what is what

(01:00:56):
needs to be covered here and done.
And, you know, but I was able tobring my travel agent, which is
huge, you know, that is that that is a team that working on a
tour without my travel agent is not something I would probably
even say yes to. Quite frankly.
It's like for me, it's a deal breaker for me.
I've tried it before and it's not worked out.

(01:01:17):
So for me, it's like I have, I'ma travel agent.
That's just part of my deal, youknow, Because they're my,
they're my the key to. Know what works, you know,
you've had decades of experience.
So yeah, if you want this to work, this is this is how it's
going to be. And you know, you've got to be
firm in, in, in what you're saying and also to make the rest

(01:01:40):
of your role, which is massive, like, you know, more sustainable
for everything. Taking your Rd. manager with
you, You've got, you've got the support.
You know it's not without. Without your support, the rest
of the the rest of the crew is not going to work.
Doesn't work, huh? No, I know and you know, I
think, you know, just like little things like with my

(01:02:01):
travel agent, you're not unless absolutely.
There's the planes totally full.She knows.
Don't put people in fucking middle seats.
Is it 20 bucks to put them in a seat that's not a middle seat?
I don't get the call anymore. Can I buy this to move them?
Just do it unless I'm on sometimes smaller tour, you

(01:02:21):
know, if you're on a theater tour, it's like our budget's
tight. We need to, you know, keep, you
know, communicate with me about cost more.
But like if it's got a little bit of budget and you're not
over budget on things like I don't need to hear about putting
someone in a good seat. Just put them in a good seat.
You know, there are times when you know, you just can't change
that. But like, those are the little
things that I mean about like worrying about your people that

(01:02:42):
are important, you know, like send them the flight.
Hey, does this flight work for you?
Oh, yeah, that does. I'm getting, I got my mother in
law's thing. I got, you know, or whatever.
And I don't want to leave at 7:00 in the morning.
No, like, is it the airline you want to be on?
Is it, you know, I think those things are missed a lot.
And those are like, I can't control, like on this tour, I
can't control some things that are already set up because it's

(01:03:03):
before me. But I can't control like what
seat you're going to be in, you know, are you going to be fed
properly? Like, you know, are you going to
be, you know? That's like, well, that's,
that's amazing. It's a such a small thing, tiny
thing. It means it means loads because
anybody that gets that middle seat is then going to be grumpy
for the rest of the day. Yeah.

(01:03:23):
Complain, get off the plane, be grumpy.
And whereas you get that middle seat, you get the R seat and
they're like, OK, they care about me.
Yeah, I have this drop down menu.
I send and like, please, please put in all your info.
It's, you know, it's a send overtravel agents.
It tells us exactly where peoplewant to see it, all of their
frequent flyer numbers, everything.
And I take that all very seriously.

(01:03:45):
That's what I've been sending out this this last week, Like,
hey, fill this out, fill this out.
And that's what Justin and I do.And you know, and it is a lot of
extra work for us to do those things.
It's a lot of extra work. But and also like on Master
tour, really putting in the information, like really putting
in all the details. How far is the hotel from the
gig? You know, what are the hours for

(01:04:06):
this? And like really putting all
those details in are important because that's what, you know,
I, I feel like I'm getting paid to do.
But you know, a lot of people just like, oh, people feel that
out for themselves, but we're here.
We're here to do that. You know, we're not just here on
the artist side. You know, that's totally like
you do whatever they say, obviously, but you know, on the

(01:04:27):
crew side of it, those little things like, you know, wearing,
oh, we're getting to the hotel at 7:00 in the morning.
Well, can we buy that room the night before so people aren't
sitting on a bus You. Know we're just going to.
Stay in the afternoon on a day off.
I mean, for me, that's been a policy that I've, you know,
sometimes on a tour, you just can't make it work, man.
And so you're like, OK, we're going to leave at 3:00 in the
morning and get the hotel at noon and hope that we, you know,

(01:04:49):
like can not be around. But if you're lucky enough like
this, this tour is generous thatway where we're able to like,
you know, we're able to buy thatroom the night before so that
when you get there at 7:00 in the morning, you just hand it a
key and go up to your room. Some people may sleep on a bus,
but I don't know about you. I'm going to get up.
I want to get off the bus and. Go to my room.
You know I mean. Again, I've been on amazing

(01:05:10):
tours where that has happened and then I've also been on other
tours where I don't know, maybe there wasn't the budget to do
that, but like we would finish the gig, check load out, you
know, by 1:00 bus rolling the journey is only three hours.
Right. And then we're at a truck stop,
you know, all day, right? And of course then that also

(01:05:31):
made everybody was just going. They were so mad.
They were like, we'll drive us into the, you know, drive us
into the cities, dump us off, dowhatever.
And then we got, you know, there's so many things that made
that talk, but in particular, like people were were angry with
that, you know? Sure, like, you know, once in a
while, you know, you might you might have to do that.
But like, so how I would look atthat situation is be like, OK,

(01:05:54):
shit, we can't get into the hotel or so let's let's do a
parking lot party. Let's tell the drivers, let's,
you know, if you can like let's BBQ some shit up.
And you know, do you know, have a little, you know, do like a
parking lot party till 2 and have the drivers come back at 3
or 4, you know, like do something to like mix that up or
just tell people or just be honest and be like, we can't get
into the hotel till 3. So, you know, but or just take

(01:06:16):
people, drop them off and let them take their backs to the
lobby and let them go walk around and get coffees and
stuff, you know? I think for most people on this
particular tour, it was the factthat it wasn't just once.
It basically it was all the time.
It was all the time, exactly andthat and.
And. That's that's but again.
You get rubbish ones, you know, Sometimes you win, sometimes you
lose. Yeah, and you know when and the

(01:06:39):
thing about tours like that, like if it's legit like this,
just a smaller budget, it's a smaller budget and that's just
what it is. But when you're on a tour and
you're doing that, but then the artist is cruising around in a
Learjet everywhere and things like that, you're just like, no,
that's not, that's not right, you know.
So, you know, you have to be fair.
Everybody has to be fair. Artist has to be fair to their
people and we have to be fair tothem.

(01:06:59):
And but those little things can make or break, you know,
somebody's time out there and, and, and, and it's just
important to do. But I, I don't, and I don't
really know how you teach peoplethat either.
It's just you have to, you have to want, you have to want to do
that. Go with that extra work.
But for me, those people will always want to work on my on,

(01:07:24):
you know, they'll want to come work with me and they'll want to
work hard and they'll like when you do have the occasional like
we can't get out. We know we can't get in that
they'll be like, you take care of us always.
We'll just go to lunch. Don't worry about it.
And they won't be mad about it because they know you think
about that like I don't want my people sitting on a bus.
I've been on that tour where yousit on the bus till 3:00 in the

(01:07:45):
afternoon and you're like, what?You know, in a parking lot, like
in a mall. And you're like, why aren't we
at the fucking mall? You know, or not even at a mall.
You're just like you were saying, like you're just like,
why not just drop us off at a mall?
Like, let's go. Somewhere.
Let's go to the mall and walk around something, you know, but
that like, eh, no, no, that's not, you know, let's not worry

(01:08:08):
about them. It's like that's not, that's not
appropriate. It's getting better.
I do feel like it's getting better, but there's a new
generation coming in that has tobe taught.
Like we have to figure out a wayto teach them how important
those little things are for. Yep.
And I think that, I mean, whoever, you know, whoever
you're teaching, you know, I'm sure that, you know, someone's

(01:08:29):
there that you'll recommend for jobs, I'm sure because under
your guidance, they're also going to have this amazing
attitude that you have. So, you know, you've had you.
You, you know, you said your first, first teacher, Marty
Holm. I mean, you couldn't get much
better than that. You know, the kind heart.
I think he's the kindest man I know.

(01:08:50):
Like. Yeah.
Yeah, you know, he, I learned every.
And then, you know, having Bonnie, Bonnie Raitt was an
extreme, an amazing example of an artist who cares about her
people. And, you know, there would be a
new truck driver. Some, you know, sometimes
someone has swap out like truck drivers got to go over here and
do this. And she'd be like, Hey, who's

(01:09:11):
that guy? You know, and I'd be like, oh,
he's covering for, you know, forBill for a couple.
And she'd be like, bring him in the room.
I want to know. And then, you know, by the time,
you know, she would know his hiswife's name and how many kids he
has and his dogs and everything and be like a next day waving at
him and stuff. And that was a, you know, not
every obviously, that's really rare.
She was exceptional that way where it really between like

(01:09:33):
Marty teaching me and and Bonnie, like it was like, oh,
this the fundamentals of like, oh, this is people are, you
know, you're supposed to be family.
And then the big monster tours. It's hard to be family, but you
do have to still try to look at it that way the best you can,
you know? You do.
I mean, even, you know, any tourthat I've been on, you know, I
class for those months, you know, you're a family and to

(01:09:56):
support each other. Of course some people have
little niggles, but the same thing.
You know, I've I've worked for some nasty people and I've
worked for some unbelievably wonderful people that have have
really taught me to be a better person and better what I do.
And you know, I bet that's what that's in life in general for
me. You know, if someone's going to

(01:10:17):
be nice with me, someone's goingto give me encouragement and
guidance, anything, you know, I'll do anything for you and I
really will. But I mean, apart from
obviously, you know, has there been a huge change in the role
of a tour manager since, you know, since you started to now,

(01:10:39):
would you say there's a huge change?
Would you say? Yeah.
I don't know if there's a huge, I mean, it's tough because I
man, you know, I've been with the same artist for so long and
I'm able to really do what like I don't really have to check in
with anybody. I just, you know, advancing

(01:11:00):
things and doing budgeting and things like that.
Like I, they just, I, they know that I like, I do my due
diligence and if I'm making a decision, it's been thought
through and you know, it's like I thought of all everything.
So, you know, getting out there with other people.
I, I, I don't know, I think thatthere's a way more on the

(01:11:23):
accounting side. I think there's more, you know,
there's more of, of, of the, youknow, things being counted and,
and, and just what we're discussing, just like you like,
well, why, why do you need to that room the night before?
You know, like, why like that seems silly, Like why are you
buying, you know, things like that?
I think that is that has changed.

(01:11:45):
Like there's more trying to convince people why, why people
need to be paid a certain wage and why we.
Have more under budget than being the free flow of money
that was years ago. Yeah, I mean, you know, like I
think every artist should see a budget and look at them and
understand them. But also like, you know, if you,
you know, you're on a you're doing A10 truck tour, but maybe

(01:12:08):
you should be A6 Truck Tour. You know, like there seem, I do
feel like there's more, there's more push for production like
everybody wants to have, you know, you know, you got the
Taylor Swift and the Beyoncé obviously.
But then when you're on like an arena sized tour, like everybody
wants to push for the bigger production.
And you know, really a lot of times that's like not feasible.

(01:12:31):
Like you should not be on A10 truck tour because trucks are
200 grand plus by the time that you know, when everything's done
or you know, whatever it may be,like give me another 1,000,000
bucks in your pocket. You know.
So I feel like there's always more of a push for production
than like some artists need thatand some artists don't.
And that that I feel is a littleharder to get crossed to artists

(01:12:55):
like you don't really need, you don't need all that stuff.
You know, people don't, they don't really care if they're
going to Beyoncé and Taylor Swift.
They're expecting that shit. Like that's why they're going to
the stadium show cuz they got the bells and whistles.
But I think that that's been, that seems to be a bit more of a
challenge than it used to be. But I think it's just just
dealing with more accounting, more on the accounting side.

(01:13:19):
And like the, you know, costs have went up a lot like from
COVID, you can pretty much crossthe board 30% higher for
everything, buses, trucks, you know, cable ramps, like every
little thing. You can pretty much take your
budget and from whatever it was five years ago is 30 or 40%

(01:13:43):
higher in general. You know, so as an artist like
that may mean you need to cut a truck back.
You need to, you know, like maybe you need to be two trucks
less because to make you maybe, you know, you're making this
amount of money back then would get you a lot more, you know, so

(01:14:04):
dealing with promoters is a little different.
They used to be these big deals,like they just give you these
big chunks of money. They give you advances.
That is not really how like it depends on the artist you're
with, but that's not really the same anymore.
Record companies don't have, youknow, as much of an influence,
least with the artist I've been with, like they're there, but

(01:14:26):
they're not as much of A they don't, you know, used to be
record companies would pay for abig chunk of like all your
promotional tour and thing like that, things like that.
Now that's not as I don't find that to be as easy, you know,
easy to come by as as it used toused to.
They used to kind of front you all this money so you could get
out there and do more. Now it's more of an on the
artist or the promoter to give you an advance for that.

(01:14:49):
So it's kind of more accounting,I feel.
And then just, you know, I thinkthere's a lot of kids out there
going to the school, the programs and things and they
come out on the road and then it's like, dude, you can get
some their schooling. But you know, the 18 hour days
and the back-to-back in the grind is a thing.

(01:15:09):
And that is something you cannotteach somebody.
So I do feel like there's a younger group coming in that you
have to you have to embrace there because man, the younger
generation is great with their boundaries these days.
Like I didn't have that shit when I was their age, but
sometimes the boundaries are go a little too far.
So you have to be like, well, you still have you have

(01:15:31):
boundaries, but you also need tocome out here and do a job that
is specific. You know, we're very specific.
And that's the thing, you can go, you can be taught, you can
go to study everything, but it'snot the same as being on the
road, living on that tour bus, experiencing that lack of sleep,

(01:15:51):
tiredness, knowing that you've got another load in tomorrow
after a load out today. And you've just got to, you
know, keep on lemon and ginger shots always for me.
Oh, yeah. If I'm a big fan of those, I'll
probably be doing those when we get done here.
Yeah, that's a big deal, yeah. And.
You know, that's the only thing like feeding people proper meals

(01:16:14):
and, you know, nutrition, you know, like the, you know, just,
you know, all of that, not just pizza every night at the end of
the night. Maybe there's maybe it's
something different. You know, like those are all
little things that can can be adjusted to to make people feel,
you know, bringing in a bringingin a Taco truck instead of doing
pizzas after show. Like it's really not that much
more money. It's like maybe 300 bucks more

(01:16:35):
to like be able to stay on a Taco truck and get Taco, you
know, whatever, bring ice cream truck in for the day, little
things like that. But like, yeah, as far as
changes like it, I feel like it's more more of a money, more
of a money motivated than it hasbeen in the past.
Not saying that they wasted money in the past, but now it's
just everything, all the prices are everything so elevated and

(01:16:58):
pricing it makes it makes it hard for the little things that
you and I have been talking about, the comforts for people.
It makes it hard because those are the first things that that
everybody wants to go right. Like that's.
They're always going to be the first thing to go.
Payrolls a big number in a budget and so they always want
that to be less people doing more jobs.
And I'm all for like, sometimes you need, there's a job you need

(01:17:20):
to cover a couple of couple of gigs, but you need to probably
be paid for that too, you know, cuz you're saving in hotel and
saving per diem And you know, but you know, that seemed to me
there's more and more of that more like we want this person to
cover multiple jobs when really that job should be to at least
two people or three people. That is probably more what I've

(01:17:42):
noticed. And scheduling, I mean, have you
seen a change? I mean, I remember like before
COVID, you know, schedules were just insane, you know, you know,
4-4 days straight, five days straight.
And yeah, only recently, becauseI do look at schedules of tours,
you know, especially when I knowof friends on one and they seem

(01:18:02):
to be a lot better. But I, I don't know what, what
do you think you know changing it?
I feel like every artist is different.
I have worked for, you know, maybe like older I guess.
And so they don't want to do thethree or four or five days in a
row, just physically can't do it.

(01:18:23):
I do know that when being part of the process, when routing is
happening and being fortunate enough as a tour manager,
sometimes you're not involved inthat.
You just get handed a routing. I with the Chicks and some other
artists, I've been involved in that.
And that's really helpful because you can be like, you
know, we cannot do that. Run.
It may say it's only 5 hours, but it's actually 7 because I

(01:18:44):
got to go around here, you know,whatever, whatever that may be,
being involved in that is, is, is helpful.
But I do know that especially after COVID, the amount of
buildings available, like if you're doing amphitheater tour
and you want to just do amphitheaters, it's hard to get
holds. There's like 3 or 4 like we'd

(01:19:04):
call them, just like you get thefirst, you're the first one and
you have the right to choose that one.
But then there's four or five people behind you when you say
no goes to the next artist and they have the, the choice to go
into that slot for that day. And that is way more competitive
than it ever has been. And I, I do feel like the, I

(01:19:28):
mean, is it crazy to you that like, we don't have like,
there's no like days off. Like there's a day off, but like
normal jobs, you have the weekend off, but we don't have,
we don't, you know, that's not something anybody thinks about
when they're rowdy and like whenthey're like, oh, we need a day
off here. You know, like, and we had to do
a little run in Australia and I was just, I was like, we had to
do it a certain way to get it tofit in there.

(01:19:50):
And I was just like, oh, that means the crew's going to be
doing these things. And I just have to tell people
like this little, this little run is not fun.
You know, we're just going to, and sometimes that happens, but
again, that doesn't happen a lot.
So they people put up with it. But if it was like that was your
grind all the time, you know it wouldn't be fun.
But I think, again, you know, ifyou're well, OK, everyone's
going to check out the schedule before they accept it anyway.

(01:20:13):
But you know, if if you're saying, OK, hands up this what
this one's not so good, but you know, the next run is really
going to be it's going to be good, right?
You know, and then you kind of you, you, you can take it or you
can leave it and same thing. You know, I've I've in the past,
I've accepted stuff and I've gone this is a horrible one.

(01:20:36):
But then the next run I've got like, you know, maybe I was on
advance before and you know, that was just, that was awesome,
you know? So you, yeah, you, like we said
before, win some, lose some. And I.
Just think four or five days in a row, is this dangerous?
I don't care how I, I mean, you know, I know sometimes it has to
be done and there's a bottom line on a budget that you
everybody's trying to get to totally get it.

(01:20:58):
And only way to get to that number is to do shows.
But four or five days in a row for people that are, you know,
back-to-back in the grind. I just feel like, and we do it
and you know, there's rarely accidents and things, but I
just, I just don't, I don't think it's smart.
I think it's like 3 days just you can do three in a row,
actually get your groove on in the third day, you know, the
second day. Like if you're doing days, I

(01:21:19):
work with the legendary artists to do a lot of one show and then
a day or two often those kind oflike, you don't ever get like
it's like a show day off, show day off, you know, like 2 days
in a row is perfect. You get like the little groove,
but I love those. Ones here.
Days in a row they feel like you're just asking for trouble.
People just people need their bodies need to recover their
mental mental state needs to recover.

(01:21:41):
They need to sleep, you know, eat a real meal, you know, all
those things. So.
Yeah, there was a lady who came on Cara Kemp.
She does a lot of work for Echo Live now.
Oh yeah, I listen to some of herher podcast.
Yeah, she's lovely. And, you know, she's, she's been
touring for years. And, you know, she came up with

(01:22:01):
this idea of, you know, basically like no pants day.
So every week that she was on tour, when she got home, she
would have like a rest day. You know, just people can come
and see you, but I just need a rest day, Right.
And, you know, I say that to everybody, you know, like, I
love that, you know, if I ever go back on tour again, you know,
because again, you need that rest.

(01:22:22):
Yeah, you do. And it's something that I, I
even had, I dream a lot, but I was like, if I ever go back out
on tour and stuff, I really would love to be that.
I don't know if that sounds a bit like, I'd love to, you know,
put more awareness of things, you know, wherever it might be,

(01:22:42):
a little flyer of, you know, behind the scenes and, you know,
people that you know, that they can reach out to.
I think it's great to talk, it is people to help them and I
think it's becoming more and more able for people to talk
about stuff. It is it is that that is that is

(01:23:03):
a that is a good change that that is happening in the
industry. Like I do feel like that is, you
know, back back and you know, the the suck it up days, walk it
off days are are hopefully behind us.
There's still a little bit of that out there, but you know.
And I mean in your free time, you're saying you, you love
walking. Yeah, I, I, yeah.
I love walking. I love, you know, like being the

(01:23:25):
cities and just like putting my headphones on and, you know,
finding the dive bar that's three or four miles away and
just walking and checking out or, you know, obviously I always
prefer to be in nature, but thatis a harder thing to do.
Yeah, but when you're home, likethat's, that's something, you
know, if you're a Walker, you'vegot where you live, you're
beautiful. I would get home from the road

(01:23:47):
and I craved nature and I would camp a lot.
I would find myself leaving my home and after being gone for
three or four months and just goto the woods.
So I looked for quite a while and I found that's why like I
pretty, I live in the woods essentially.
And I mean, I have neighbors, but they're not like right up on
me, you know, like everybody's got four or five acres,
whatever. And you know, now I'm now I'm

(01:24:10):
when I come home, I'm in mid nature.
I'm you know, my Creek. I have like, you know, I have a
setting that's I still go out and camp and hike and stuff, but
at least now I have that nature to come home to.
I have these three massive cedartrees and I just, you know, I
really do hug him when I come home.
I was like, Oh my God, you know,like the energy of like that
tree, like I'm, you know, I'm over grounding.

(01:24:31):
And so, you know, we were to retreat huggers at heart.
But yeah, just to, you know that, but you know, like on the
road, like that should be part of a thing.
Like let's get out, do hiking trips together, let's rent a
van, let's have a runner come inearly and you know, you know,
get out there and, and, and do those things.
Cuz if that's what you do at home, you should be doing that

(01:24:52):
on the road too. Like if you, you know, you hike,
like, you know, on a day off, you should hike or, you know, if
you like, if you like the dive bar thing, go dive bar thing.
If you like to play pool like dothat you know and you should,
you should embrace those things and not.
If you like. Caught up and just being in the
hotel and what's that? I said if you like watching TV,
stay in your hotel and veg out and watch TV like.

(01:25:14):
And sometimes those are the bestdays, which you're just like,
you're tired. You're just like, I'm just gonna
keep watching this. What's a $30 cheeseburger?
Fuck it, let's go. Just bring it.
I don't want to go out, I just want to watch.
I want a bath, which I hate baths by the way.
I hate baths but I just always want a bath so I run a bath.

(01:25:34):
Well, yeah. I hate it, why am I in it?
It's a waste of water so I get annoyed with myself.
I love a bath, but hotels is like depending on their hotel,
you're like, I'm not getting in that bathtub.
You know, we all have those. Some of them are disgusted.
But then you look at the. The hotel menu and you're like,
Yep, $30.00, I don't care, I don't care.

(01:25:55):
Well, Uber, Uber eats has changed all of that, right?
Like Uber eats and post mates and all that.
Like now it's like, OK, you're still paying an extra 10 bucks
maybe, but at least it's not, you know, the room service
silliness that, you know, being with artists in artist hotels.
Like, you know, we, you burn a, you'll burn a per diem and A and
a breakfast, you know, and if it's three, if you got three

(01:26:17):
meals or two meals, you're trying to do like you can burn
through it. So like having that option now
is, is really nice. Yeah.
But you don't have. It and as you know what what
what I always like to ask this, but what advice would you give
to young women aspiring to enterthe music industry and one
aspiring to be, you know, the best tour manager that they can

(01:26:38):
be? I would say and women and just
in general, like anybody, like, I think, you know, for me,
everybody's so literal now. Like they want to, you know, I
want to be a stage manager or whatever it might be, you know,
and, and that's what that's that's as they focus on.
And I think that like you have to, for me, like I did all the

(01:27:02):
jobs I have stayed push boxes. I was like I said, I was
rigging. I'd work for a lighting company.
I did running. I did, you know, so many
different jobs. And that helped me understand
like being in this position of who I am now.
Like I, I've done all those jobs.
I've done every one of them out on the road except for maybe
some video or something like thenew, you know, like the 3D shit

(01:27:24):
and all that stuff. I haven't done that stuff but or
pyro never done pyro, but but like the, you know, like I've
done them all and I I see them. I understand what needs to
happen. That helps me with my
scheduling. So I think just like embracing
doing something that maybe you may like.
Why am I doing this job? Like this job is not even

(01:27:46):
something I'm remotely interested in.
Well, you don't may not even know that you're, you know, I
didn't necessarily know I was interested in doing this.
I thought I was going to do video and, and you know, and it,
and it switched for me. So I think, you know, keeping an
open mind and getting out there and doing any job that comes up
and doing it positively, being positive, get your connections,

(01:28:08):
like really embrace your connections.
Don't, don't, don't be afraid toreach out to someone that you've
worked with that might be, mighthave mentioned an opportunity or
might be working on a hey, just letting you know, like I'm
available, you know, like you hear of anything, you never
know, like a lot of times, you know, I'll forget about somebody
just because we meet so many people.

(01:28:30):
And a lot of times I'll forget about somebody and then I'll be
like, oh man, I need this personto cover that, you know, I need
a back line person or whatever it might be.
And then you'll just get that random e-mail like, Hey, I'm
available for work. It's like, Oh well, actually,
you know, so don't be afraid to network your community and use
your community, but also you have to develop 1.
So just get out there and you know, work local gigs.

(01:28:52):
A gig comes up where you're, youknow, maybe you're either doing
catering or backstage or something.
That's not like you're not, well, that's not what I want to
do. Like, well, you never like
you're still gonna go out and dothat gig cuz yeah, that's how
you learn the other gig. And there isn't, I don't know,
too many people that would just be like, OK, here you're tour
managing, you know, like everybody wants to just start

(01:29:15):
doing that And it's like, it doesn't work like that.
You might get if it does, like Boy Lookout, because there's so
many things to learn, but I think just embracing the
community, utilizing your networks.
Yeah, if that did happen, you know, straight away, you know,
someone that's come out from nowhere is like tour managing
generally. I just get the feeling that it

(01:29:36):
would never work out anyway. No, I've seen, I've seen it.
I mean, I've gotten a lot of those calls, you know, like, can
you come out like last minute? You know, this isn't working out
And and you know, that's unfortunate because you I mean,
like I said, I always want some.I want everyone.
If you really want to do this shit, I want you to succeed.
But you know, I think you got toget out and you got it.

(01:29:56):
You got it. You got to do the grind a little
and you have to network with your people, keep your
networking and and just be positive out there.
You know, just, you know, don't,don't knock people down.
Don't you know? See someone?
Struggling. Help them out there.
Networking doesn't mean sucking up and being horrible to others.
Does not mean sucking up. It means networking to me is

(01:30:17):
absolutely everyone on the tour it or it's everyone in the in
the in the venue. It's the guy mopping the floors.
It's the it's the, you know, at times like I've introduced
myself to the dude standing at our door, you know, know, being
the security guy, like, hey, howyou doing?
I'm I'm Mindy, I'm tour manager today.
You're going to see me coming togo.
And what's your name? And like, the chicks give me

(01:30:39):
shit about all the time. They're like, what's that guy's
name? Like, Oh, well, that's you know,
that's Steve. That's so and so they're like,
you know, do you know everyone all the way?
And I'm like, I probably do, youknow?
But they're also going to be standing there all day.
They get they, they, they're there from 7:00 in the morning.
And yeah, you know, maybe they'll have a break.
Lucky if they get to catering. Most times they won't be there

(01:31:00):
in catering and you know, we'll pass with a bottle of water, say
look, I just picked that up or you want to go next time, Do you
want this? It takes nothing.
And you don't know if that person might be like, no, that
means that doesn't that that little extra effort on your
side, but you don't know if thatperson might be good friends
with someone over here that needs, needs somebody like, you

(01:31:20):
know what I met, I've met this really nice person and they seem
like they were a hustler here. You know, let me get their
number for you. Like you just never know.
And so like, I think you have toconsider like everyone is a
network. It's not just like sucking up to
the production manager or like, you know, well, I always suck up
to the production coordinator because that whoever is running
that show is someone you got on their good side because they can

(01:31:44):
make or break your day. I just love.
That I'm just kidding. I'm kind of kidding.
But I mean, you know, that person is just not someone you
want to have on your bad side because that's who's booking
your flights and dealing with your food and shit.
So, you know, but I did that so long.
What's that? And be nice to caterers.

(01:32:06):
Yeah, caterers, caterers. I mean, yeah, I've seen, I've
seen people be really rude to caterers or just just the
treatment of caterers sometimes.Like what?
Why? Why are we doing that to them?
Like they're part part Everett, they're part of the tour, you
know, like that's a really important part of the tour.
And if they're not happy, that's, you know, not good.
So. Yeah, I think it's more, I mean,
I've had the I've seen this was actually in America, it was one

(01:32:30):
of the drivers and he came in and was so rude to one of the
natures. I mean so rude.
And next minute though, the whole literally the crew that
were in there in the room, they were like, hey, dude, like why,
why, why did you talk to them like that?
Like they all had this girl's back, like all, all of them.
And he was like, oh, yeah. But but the way what he actually

(01:32:53):
said was that he did actually apologise to her.
And if I remember correctly, he was like, oh, I just thought you
was local. And I remember saying in the
time, what does that matter if I'm a local caterer?
I didn't realise you was taught.What does that matter?
Yeah. It means nothing and that's what
I mean. Like I think like it's when I

(01:33:13):
say networking in your community, like like that is
everybody, you know, it's respecting everybody's,
everybody's helping, putting theshow on and there are people
that are higher up. It's like as far as what, what
they're doing, but like everybody is part of the
community and don't be afraid tojust try any, any job, any
experience is better than than than nothing, you know, like.

(01:33:35):
Well, I said last year, I just hopped onto it was blink 182 for
their last week in UK in the UK and.
That's where you met I. Was in the dressing rooms, yeah.
And bear in mind, I did 3 gigs, but every single person on that
tour was like, oh hi, you're doing the dressing rooms.
You're you're helping out here and so nice.
Yeah, like so nice. And I was like wow, this is a

(01:33:57):
really nice tour. Obviously, yeah, question was on
that, yeah. Well, that's, I mean, that's one
production coordinator not to fuck with.
Yeah, she's awesome. She.
Right, right at her job, you know, calls it, you know, and,
and I also, if I could also givepeople advice as to, you know,
you're, you're, you're your advocate for yourself and you

(01:34:20):
have to, there are boundaries that need to be set, of course,
as we were discussing, but also like your pay, your, you know,
like the things, you know, like there's just things that like
you have to really stand up for yourself about.
And, and I, I, we, we're maybe more now, like they now they're,

(01:34:42):
they do that more. But back in the day we were
just, you know, you know, suck it up and do it.
And like, if like really know your worth, know your worth,
you, you, you know, you need to know that what you bring is, you
know, you got certain skills, you bring certain energy, you
bring and know that and don't let anybody ever take that away

(01:35:05):
from you and just stand up for yourself.
Like that's, that's that. I see that all the time.
You know, people don't don't want to do that.
And you have, you have to, you have to stand up for yourself.
I that's, that's, yeah, wise, wise words spoken.
Not always easy to do. I'm not saying I've always done

(01:35:26):
it. I'm getting better at it.
It's easier for me to say than do like it with anybody.
But it is something. Put that in your head, you know,
get out there and network. Don't be afraid to use the
network and, and, and be kind topeople with decency.
And I do think if you can do that, you'll continue.
You can work. You can work.

(01:35:48):
I think that's, I mean, every lady that I've had on here so
far, you know, that's, that's really been the biggest thing
that ever. All of them have said be kind,
be kind and, and that's it kind but firm.
So you know, a lot of people like be kind, be kind, but firm
and be willing to get your handsdirty in any situation and.

(01:36:12):
And I think women have to embrace each other more like we
get out there and there's this natural, I don't know what it is
if I don't know what it is like the kind of like the women can
be worst. They can be so mean to one
another. But women need to embrace each
other more than than anything, you know, like being being each
other's advocates, you know, like taking care of taking care

(01:36:35):
of each other because we, you know, we have obstacles out
there that men just don't have. And, you know, I've gotten too
many arguments with with men about that.
And it's just like, you can be the nicest man in the world.
You still have no idea the obstacles that we put up with
just being women. And so I think women need to be

(01:36:55):
especially kind to women and really help and bring them in,
bring them in, bring that, bring, you know, support each
other. And again, I've I've worked with
people that really have been nasty to other women.
Yeah. You know, and the same thing and
whether it's whether it's an insecurity from their side, you

(01:37:15):
know, seeing someone else come into, you know, that possibly
they could take their job at whatever point or but really
sabotaging feelings. I've seen that, yes, I've lived
that on a tour for like a year for somebody.
And as someone I knew really well and everything.
And it was sad to see because I'm just like, why are, why is
that happening? You know, it took me a while to

(01:37:37):
kind of figure out why that was and I and I, I, you know, I
just, it was, it was a bummer tosee, but it helped me like I
really had to take a good look at myself.
I was like, oh, I got to make sure I am not doing doing that
because you know, it just. Made a particular lady and she
really, I mean, I actually I've never spoken to her since

(01:37:59):
because of this, but it took a long while.
I mean, it was, it was a good, it was the first leg of the
tour. So, you know, a good three
months and we couldn't quite understand why, what certain
things were happening and people's attitudes towards each
other were really clashing. Yeah.
And it wasn't until the end of the tour, this one, another

(01:38:20):
particular lady, she came up to me and she, she just happened to
bring something up. And I was like, like, you know,
I never said that. I never did that.
Yeah. And then she was like, hang on a
minute. And then all of a sudden, the
jigsaw, it all came together andthis one central person, which
sadly was a woman, was literallysabotaging everybody else.

(01:38:43):
Yeah, I've seen that. And that's what I mean, I think.
I've seen one again. Yeah, I, I see women do that
more, more often than not. And that's what I mean.
It's like that. Like we can't do that to each
other. We just can't, you know, we have
to it's. Hard enough being on the road,
it is with the hours, with everything.
You don't need to be self doubting yourself in the job

(01:39:03):
that you're meant to be doing, right?
You know, whatever it is, whether it's catering, lighting,
you know, any, any position within this tour, you've been
hired to do this job. I always say, you know, it's not
brain surgery what we're doing, you know, OK, take a precision.
It takes everything, but it really isn't OK.

(01:39:24):
A lot there are. I'm going to say this wrong now.
It's not a life or death, obviously safety is.
But really just come together. And if you can help somebody,
help them. Don't deliberately watch them
make a mistake or guide them in a direction that you know is
going to be in a mistake. Yeah.
Yeah, and film it and then put it on Instagram.

(01:39:46):
Like when people you see people doing that, you're like, why are
you filming that? And like, maybe go give that
person a hand. Like, why are you filming that?
Like go over there and be like, can I help you?
They're like struggling to get something on their car or
whatever. And look at this guy.
Like what? Yeah you doing?
But I think that's society, that's our society now.
And I think for younger people, like, they need to realize like,

(01:40:09):
it's better to stop filming and start helping, you know, like,
like, let's let's help each other.
Yep. Well, I mean, if you have any.
Do you have any other final words of wisdom?
Not really. I mean, that's funny.
I mean, no, I think I think we covered a lot.
You know, could probably go on and on, but I've had a good

(01:40:29):
time, so thanks for having. Me, Mindy, thank you so much for
coming on. Yeah, and let's keep in touch
too, so. Yeah, and hopefully one day our
paths will cross. Yeah, I hope so.
Thank you, Mindy. Thanks for having me.
La La La La ladies, the ladies. Now here's the leading ladies.

(01:40:58):
But Geezers of Gear on tour, maybe she got some stories to
share. Now here's the leading ladies by
the Geezers of Gear Rock star ladies with some stories to
share because La La La La La La La La la ladies.

(01:41:33):
Yes, she's a high. Now here's the.
Leading ladies by Kizers of GearRockstar ladies for some stories
to share. Now here's the leading ladies by

(01:41:53):
the Kizers of Gear on tour ladies.
She got some.

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#305 - Mindi Pelletier - The heart of touring - LEADING LADIES

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#305 - Mindi Pelletier - The heart of touring - LEADING LADIES