#308 - Sooner Routhier - Innovative Approaches to Show Design

Sooner Rae Routhier is an award-winning show designer and creative producer behind some of the most iconic live performances of the past two decades. Her work with artists like Coldplay, Green Day, The Weeknd, Paramore, Muse, and Rihanna has been seen on global tours and major broadcasts including The AMA’s, The Voice, and The Tonight Show.

A two-time Parnelli winner and co-founder of SRae Productions and The Playground, Sooner is known for blending powerful storytelling with cutting-edge production.

She also co-founded EVEN, a nonprofit promoting access and equity in the live events industry.From arena shows to immersive experiences, Sooner continues to lead the way in redefining what live entertainment can look and feel like.

Summary

In this conversation, Sooner Routhier discusses the transformative experience of collaborating with other designers on show projects. She reflects on how this collaborative approach has changed her creative process and the dynamics of show design, highlighting both the challenges and the benefits of working together with other creatives.

This Episode is brought to you by Elation and Main Light

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I started just getting calls from management teams, I think
in like 21 asking if I would collaborate with another
designer on a project. And it happened like I think
like 3 or 4 times. And it was kind of the first
time that it ever happened with me.
Like I never really had anybody say, hey, we really want you to

(00:20):
design this show, but we also want this designer.
Would you guys join forces? And I mean, I just, I loved that
process. It was really great.
There's going to be a better wayto create.
Like I should just figure out a way to do this and create with a
team? Sorry, you just caught me

(01:06):
sipping some of my coffee. Cult geezers grind coffee and
how are you today? Thanks for joining me.
Nothing of course, going on in our industry at all right now
other than these tariffs. Whoa.
So I've been talking with a lot of my friends who were at the
show in Germany this week. The trade show in Germany PLS.

(01:27):
Pro lighting and sound, I guess it's called.
And of course, tariffs were a big topic at the show where I
would say a large percentage of the gear that comes into our
industry comes from China. And you know, many of these
manufacturers are in a bit of a panic right now.
It's obviously a little bit morethan a wee bit uncomfortable at
the moment when Trump just keepssaying 104 percent, 125%.

(01:52):
And, you know, whether you like the reason it's being done, you
like the guy doesn't really matter at this point.
It's a challenge that I think our industry will find ways to
overcome. And so I know my company has
certainly had challenges with itbecause we do business in 100
different countries. And so all of these tariffs have
caused just mass disarray and fortunately we have systems in

(02:16):
place to to handle it. So we've done a pretty good job
so far and I'm hopeful and I'm even confident that this is
probably going to create some policy globally, some great
international policy that probably is going to drop
tariffs and end up in lower costs for everyone instead of
higher costs. We can hope at least.

(02:37):
And so today's guest Sooner, RayRuthier is an award-winning show
designer and creative producer behind some of the most iconic
live performances of the past two decades.
She doesn't seem that old. Her work with artists including
Coldplay, Green Day, The Weekend, Paramore Muse, Rihanna
and so many more has been seen on global tours and major

(03:01):
broadcast including The AM as The Voice and The Tonight Show.
A two time Parnelli winner and Co founder of S Ray Productions
and recently The Playground, Sooner is known for blending
powerful storytelling and cutting edge production.
She also Co founded Even a nonprofit promoting access and

(03:21):
equity in the live events industry.
From arena shows to immersive experiences, Sooner continues to
lead the way in redefining what live entertainment can look and
feel like. And I can't wait to see her and
talk to her today. So please welcome Sooner Ruth
here. I've got notes.
Hello Sooner. Hi.
How are you I'm. I'm so good.

(03:43):
How are you? I'm.
Also so good well, I'm probably not as good.
You know I'm not I'm not a multitime award-winning creative
designer. You know, with with everything
in the world going for me, the largest tour other than maybe 1
and you know you've got it made right now you're kicking O Tay

(04:05):
it's. The weird name.
I don't think it's lucky. The weird name doesn't hurt.
It's. The weird name.
Although you know. It's mom and dad.
There's there's like a lot of other successful people out
there like, you know, Roy Bennett, you know, that's not
that weird. Like he seems to be doing OK,
but he's. Doing great.
So I'm I'm guessing the weird name doesn't hurt and and no,

(04:29):
I'm I'm just making fun right now, but we celebrate the.
We've had. We've had an incredible run and
I'm super proud of you and it's fun to watch and fun to talk to
you every once in a while and say, where are you?
Well, I'm doing some massive award show in, you know, Vienna
and. Yeah, I will be there on Friday.

(04:52):
Yeah, we've just discovered that.
Yeah, we've just discovered thatour our lovely producer Sarah is
gonna be on a tour that you're gonna be at the front end of.
She's gonna be out I think for four weeks or something, which
means I have to do all her work plus mine.
There you go. We're just going to go meet up
in Vienna this weekend. It's cool.
Sounds amazing. Mostly low key.

(05:12):
Sounds amazing. Super casual.
Yeah, sounds amazing. I you know, I think Vienna is
one of the few European cities Ihave not been to so.
I've been there, but I think I only had like half a day off
there or something. Like just enough time to like go
for a run along the Danube and then go back to the hotel and
drink a crap load of wine and domy show the next day.

(05:35):
I think that's all I did. So good for you.
Sounds fun. So are you going to get to spend
any time there this time? Yeah, I'm actually going over
early a day early the the lighting director Slash, my Co
designer on the project, and I are going to go watch Phantom of
the Opera at an Opera House in Austria.

(05:56):
Very cool. Which sounds, I know, so fun.
I'm excited about it. It's all in German, so with
subtitles, Yeah. And then we're going to go get
dinner and. Yeah, just going over.
I haven't, I haven't really explored that city much, so I
figured I'd go over a little bitearly just to check it out.
And. Then so just really one day
though, right? It's just one day.
Yeah, but I'll be there for I mean, we're we have a couple

(06:16):
days worth of rehearsals. So I think I can't remember what
day I'm there till, but it's I think I fly back to the states
like a in a week or something. Oh, OK, a little bit over that.
Fly back home on the 20th. So you got a bit of time.
That'll be fun. And that's.
Yeah. It'll be good.
That's luminaires. The Lumineers, Yep, they're,
they're getting ready to kick off a massive cycle, as they do.

(06:39):
Yeah, in support of a new album.And yeah, they're fun.
We're gonna have a good time. I'm excited.
And it's always like, it's always a pretty chill rehearsal
period, too. Like we all just kind of, you
know, ease into it, get the showup and going and have a
beautiful first show. And then, yeah.
So hoping that that will happen again this time.

(07:00):
Super cool. Great.
Yeah, super cool. Hopefully I'll have a couple
more dinners out in Vienna. We'll see.
What else have you got going on this year?
From a touring standpoint? I'm sure Coldplay just is the
machine. Yeah, Coldplay just going.
Yeah, we actually in our Slack, our channel is called Coldplay
Forever. Yeah, but.
Why would you start, I mean, when you've got that machine?

(07:22):
I mean, why are you doing so well, you know?
Yeah, and they hit North Americathis year, which will be really
fun 'cause I'll get to go to a lot more of the shows and I'm
going to be at Wembley in Augustwith them.
Yeah, I mean, we, so we're, we're really lucky.
Like our, our little creative Co-op is, is doing great.
I don't know. I think we've got about 12

(07:43):
projects going at the moment getting ready to, yeah.
Didn't it just start like you just announced it?
No, that yeah, kind of that was like a social media.
They're just like revamp of somesocial media stuff.
OK, but it's kind of it's been going since January of 22, but

(08:08):
we kind of like didn't really announce we were doing much for
about a year and you know, just cuz it's kind of a funky
concept. So I just wanted to make sure
that it was gonna be successful,and I wanted to make sure that
it was launched properly and nice and slow.
And yeah, so we've got like, we're doing Noah Khan, his

(08:28):
festival stuff this summer. We've got Chris Stapleton, which
I'm so excited about. Yeah.
I get to like, listen to Chris Stapleton.
And yeah, he's amazing A. Lot.
I'm so I'm so excited. His voice is, is just like it's,
you know, you could be in the grumpiest mood and it'll just
make you go. Yep, chill.
Yeah, it's like. Yeah, it's like.

(08:50):
You can't be unhappy. Beautiful.
Yeah, I'm really excited about that.
We're working with a Latin artist named Manuel Torrizo.
I'm learning Spanish for it. Unbelievable.
Yeah, I feel like I'm betraying my French Canadian family by not
sticking to French. But so when he yells at you,
you'll know what he's mad at, right?
He's so nice. I don't know if he's yell.

(09:10):
He's the sweetest. Yeah, yeah.
Wow. Yeah, we worked with him in the
in the fall, we did an award show performance for him and he
is just the loveliest. I don't know.
I've got stuff. Alice Cooper's going back out in
the. Fall I'm.
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(10:35):
So I want to learn about this 'cause, you know, I've watched a
lot of people create collectivesor whatever we want to call them
and you can kind of explain how yours works.
I know how most of them work where everybody kind of brings
their work in. It's almost like a law firm
where everybody brings their work in, throws it in the middle
of the table. If you brought it in, you

(10:55):
probably get a bigger cut. And then there's a percentage
paid into the collective and that covers like some back
office expenses and stuff like that.
And so it's really just a reallycool way to share talents when
additional talents are needed orwhatever, and to also cover, you
know, expenses that everyone pays, things that are standard

(11:17):
things that everyone needs to pay, whether it's HR or
marketing or whatever it is. Right.
So that's, yeah, pretty much, pretty much explains.
It nailed it. It's super transparent, like
everything is very open. And I mean, I, I started because
I realized that there was just some expenses that I didn't, I

(11:39):
didn't know how to afford as an independent designer, right?
And I heard the same challenges from some other designers.
And honestly, like for me, it just kind of happened
organically. Like I, I started just getting
calls from management teams, I think in like 21 I asking if I
would collaborate with another designer on a project.

(12:03):
And it happened like I think like 3 or 4 times.
And it was kind of the first time that it ever happened with
me. Like I never really had anybody
say, hey, we really want you to design this show, but we also
want this designer. Would you guys join forces?
And I mean, I just, I loved thatprocess.
It was really great. And so I was like, there's going
to be a better way to create. Like I should just figure out a

(12:24):
way to do this and create with ateam.
And it's it took like, I'd say it took like a year to get
everything sort of figured out and like the best process.
And yeah, we're at the we're growing and that's where we're
about to hire another full time producers, what we call our like

(12:47):
liaison, like somebody who basically is assisting on all of
the project back end work and dealing with contracts and
insurance and negotiations. And that's cool, yeah.
Conference calls and blah, blah,blah.
Like, you know, scheduling timelines.
So we're, we're about to hire another one.
So we'll have two full time. And so do those people come from

(13:09):
inside or outside the industry? Inside yeah and then yeah and
we're we're also looking to hirean assistant and yeah there's
there's some good things happening it's working it's
working and like, you know it's probably not a crazy different
concept because like you said there's other co-ops that are
other collaborate collectives out there whatever any C word

(13:32):
you put in there but yeah, I, I don't know it's it's fun it's
it's been really good and successful and people are really
loving it and. It's one of those things that,
you know, when it works, it works generally tremendously
well. So I have a friend.
You're probably not old enough to remember Freddie Laker, Sir

(13:53):
Freddie Laker from from England,who who owned an airline and he
was the original discount airline going from New York to
to London and it was $99 each way when it was unheard of.
This was like in I think it was even the 80s, not even the 90s.
And Sir Freddie Laker was a veryglamorous, very, you know, just

(14:13):
a really well known, he was likeRichard Branson.
And it actually is one of Richard Branson's mentors that
he always talks about, right? And so anyways, his son Freddie
Laker Junior is a good friend ofmine.
And Freddie Junior started a collective about, I don't know,
6-7 years ago now. And what it was is he had

(14:38):
digital agencies before and he just saw an end to these digital
agencies and he saw additional needs.
And he was very specifically involved with like large venture
capital firms and stuff where hewas being brought in as a turn
around CEO. And they'd always say, Hey, do
you know a CFO? Do you know a CEO?
Do you know a operations manager?

(14:59):
Do you know a whatever? And so he just started building
this team around him of these people.
And he just came up with this concept to say, Hey, you know,
just come in when you need to, but don't, don't be on my
payroll when you don't need to. And it became a collective.
And now that's probably a $40 million company, I'm guessing.

(15:20):
Yeah, it's amazing. He is just crushing it.
And he's got marketing people, every C-Suite person, every
management level person, financepeople, all of it.
And it's just amazing how good. It is, yeah.
I mean, I just think that peoplewant to work differently these
days, you know what I mean? Like it's, I think that the
mindset has changed significantly and I'm finding

(15:44):
like a lot like I'm starting to work with a lot of, I mean, I
guess no matter what going to beworking with a lot of younger
designers cuz I'm. Yeah, it happens to me pretty
much. Everybody, yeah.
So it's nice to, to work with like a younger generation of
designers and like, they just want a lot of them just want
like a community to be a part ofas opposed to just being like, I

(16:06):
did that on my own. And, and that's a very big
mindset shift to what I, you know, grew up in the business
experiencing. So, and honestly, like for me,
it's just, I mean, selfishly, it's just better.
I just love it. It's just I I'm a very.
Social Person. Yeah, I'm a social person.
I like to be on like I'm in thisoffice in my office at home and,

(16:31):
and it's quite lonely unless thedog comes down and hangs out
with me. So like we have our little
virtual online office that we have on all day and where people
kind of pop in and out and it's it's nice like.
What do you use for that? Right now we're using a program
called Tandem. We were using a program called
Around which was amazing, but they sunsetted the app March

(16:53):
1st. I have the greatest thing in the
world that you have to have. And if you want, tomorrow when
we have our other talk, I'll show it to you.
It's called Rome and. Oh, that's what I'm actually
it's on my list of things to do is to test Rome if.
I didn't go to Mexico last week.It's it's, I'm telling you right
now sooner. Don't even test it.
It's yours. Trust me.

(17:13):
It yeah, it's it's life changinglike I have.
I have nine people who are two in Greece, Yeah, one in I2 in
Brazil, one in two in Canada, a couple in the US Yeah, I mean,
just scattered around the world.And like my operations manager
has been with me 7 years. I've never met him.

(17:36):
I've never met him. I mean, and I feel like I know
him like my brother practically,you know, but I've never met
him. I almost is amazing.
OK, great. I'm going to try that because
that it's like I said, it's literally it's on my list of
things to do. I tried another one called
Butter. Yeah.
It crashed my computer multiple times.
Yeah, it was all good by her face, right?
Yeah, but yeah, so I. Can give you an introduction to

(17:59):
Rome too because like I was I was supposed to there was a big
party at the founder's house last week I don't know why my
screen just froze. There was a a big party at the
founder's house last week. He's got this mansion on on the
beach and in Miami and but I wasin in Mexico, so I couldn't go.
But he's he's just a super guy. His team are unbelievable and

(18:21):
the features that it has are just ridiculous.
And. It's solid too, like I was, I've
been with it. That's all good.
He's excited about Rome too. I was, I was with them like 2
years ago when it was, it was inbeta and and then beginning of
last year I think it went to thefull version and it's the one

(18:43):
piece of software. I always say that you'd have to
drag it from my bleeding hands and fight me for it 'cause I I
wouldn't give it up ever so. That's the way we felt about
around and we're so sad that it went away.
Yeah, it 'cause it could just disappear, like really small
little bubbles, but people are still there.
Or you could like it and it, I don't know.

(19:03):
It's just really nice. The screen sharing and the the
notations on the screen were really important to us 'cause
we'll look, pull up a plot and you're drawing on it.
But the Rome features I think are better with screen sharing
because you can like draw lines and yeah.
Yeah, well, and they love the creative industry, too,
actually. The founder grew up in theater
and he was, I think, a singer oran actor or something.

(19:27):
And so, yeah, they're very theatrical.
Whenever they do a demo or a presentation, it's very
theatrical. And he's it's it's amazing.
Anyways, enough said. I'll show it to you tomorrow.
And if you want to go see the demo just it's RO dot AM.
I watched. Yeah, it's actually.
I have the app on my computer. I've been yeah, it just
happened. Super cool.

(19:48):
The next one I have to test, butI'm glad you're getting a good
winning endorsement. So I think that's probably going
to be the one we go to, yeah. It's, I can't believe it hasn't
taken over yet. Like just everyone uses it
because even companies that havepeople in office and then sort
of a combined distributed staff,to me that's like it's just the

(20:09):
winning piece of software period.
So anyways. That's amazing.
There's my roam pitch for the day.
I just, I do love it that much. Like I really do.
I I. Love it.
You know, I get it. That's the way we were about
around and honestly some of our productivity and some of our
like company culture has actually declined since the app
went away out of our. So we're like desperate to find

(20:30):
something that works really well.
So hopefully this will be it. Yeah, I could totally see that.
Like, if you took it away from us, my team had, you know, I
don't know if they discipline, disappear and go play golf or if
they'd be like, sad or I don't know what would happen, but it
wouldn't be the same. Today's episode is brought to
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(20:50):
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(21:17):
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remain unchanged, A true hero rejects the ordinary and

(21:41):
embraces transformation. They ascend and become the
paragon. Yeah, not fun.
So anyways, you so your collective, is it gonna be all
set up with like just similar designers or are you gonna have

(22:05):
like different disciplines in there so that if someone came to
you and said, can you put a whole show together, we, you
know, we need all of these things.
Yeah, yeah. In fact, like manual tutors are
the the Latin artists that we'reworking for, we're doing choreo
and styling as well. OK, that's cool.
So we do like, you know, the full thing.
That's cool. Yeah.

(22:25):
And we've got, you know, we've got some musical directors
underneath our collective too, if that's needed.
For us. It's really important that
everybody remains autonomous. So, you know, people do shows on
their own and and whatever. Like, I just think that's really
important because it's not a cult, right?
We're not like the cult, the playground.
It's just everybody needs to kind of do their own thing at

(22:47):
the same time. Yeah.
So yeah, I mean, this will be, Ithink, the third project we do
where we bring in choreo and wardrobe.
So it's nice 'cause you can likekind of take like the whole
thing just gets, it's just that much more cohesive, you know?
But how how you know without getting into secrets or
anything, how do you do? Like if you said people can do

(23:12):
their own projects and stuff, which is cool, but at the same
time, how does that work as far as like, you know, you need a
certain amount of profitability or, or income or whatever you
call it to, to be a collective that that functions properly.
So how would that work? Like if I said, OK, these

(23:33):
artists I'm going to put into the collective and these ones
over here I'm keeping for myself.
That's cool. We keep it pretty lean and mean,
honestly. Yeah, we don't have much
overhead. It's.
Pretty, Yeah, it's cool. Doesn't require that much, yeah.
And if we ever need like additional support, we hire
freelance so we get like a freelance pot of money.

(23:55):
Interesting. Yeah.
So it's, yeah, it's leaning mean.
I mean, we're honestly, we're, we're good.
We're already, we're already on track.
By. First quarter so we're.
Good for you, good for. You thanks it's.
Fun. Well, I'm sure everybody's like
bringing in these shows. And then you go, here's Coldplay

(24:16):
and the ticker just goes like this, right?
Oh, we got money. We can pay our bills.
Money it's funny because sometimes it actually works
against me because I get like, you know, like I like doing
smaller theater and like club shows actually called that size
show because it's a controlled environment.
I mean, a lot of obviously you have to flex the size of the

(24:37):
stage and everything, but, and the challenge is like people
won't call or like I'll, I'll talk to like a management
friend, like, and they'll say, Oh yeah, a month ago I had this
artist that I wanted to bring toyou guys, but we don't have
Coldplay money. And I'm like, OK, yeah, we're,
that's OK. Like we're, it's not, we don't,

(24:59):
we don't charge that same amounton every single show.
Like you can't. It's about time.
Like Coldplay's out for a long, long time.
They're, they rehearse for a very long time.
They, they're building their show for a very, very long time.
Like it's, it's time and size and scope and the amount of work
we put into it. But if, like, you're a smaller
show, a theater show, you're maybe going to be in rehearsals

(25:20):
for like a week, tops, and like,your production side is going to
be a lot less like. So that means the budget's going
to be less for us because we're not going to be, you know,
having to hire programmers for six weeks.
Also, you know, Mr. so and so I've done more shows of your
size than I have of Coldplay size.
So you know, there's only one Coldplay out there and then The

(25:41):
Rolling Stones and Taylor Swift and that's about it, right?
Like everything else is kind of dwarfed in in in comparison, so.
They're so fun though. Yeah, I, I, I like that whole
concept though. The the collective concept.
I think again, from a lifestyle standpoint, the ability to size

(26:02):
up or down as needed for different jobs.
Like if you need a Co designer or a choreographer or any of
those other disciplines on on a gig, you don't have to have them
on your staff and, and paying those monthly expenses and
stuff. So yeah.
It's been very, very helpful andalso just a lot of it is also
like troubleshooting and creative concepts are are that

(26:26):
to me is my favorite thing 'cause like everybody can look
at problems or challenges like different ways.
So you always end up coming up with like the best solutions
because you're all like a challenge comes up and you're
like, uh oh, we need to fix this.
And you don't have just one person trying to figure it out.
You have a collective of people trying to figure it out.

(26:46):
And the same thing with design, like we were, I'm currently
designing a show that has to fitin in like suitcase style
luggage, but it's for like largetheaters and arenas.
So and they're not carrying trucks.
So how are we going to design? So we and we've, you know, we've
all kind of come up with a cool solution and it's going to fit
in Pelicans and go to town. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(27:07):
That's interesting. So, But what about so like,
let's say I'm putting The Beatles back together and I see
your ad in live design magazine or something and I say, oh,
well, this looks like a design firm that I'd like to hire.
So that flies in over the top and lands in your social media

(27:29):
inbox. Is it first come, first serve?
Like whoever answers social media that day becomes the
designer or how how like would you all just sit in a meeting
and say this is probably the best for so and so or whatever.
Yeah, I mean, it depends honestly.
Like a lot of times it'll it'll come with a, hey, we really

(27:51):
loved this show that you guys did.
And it's like, oh, no brainer. That's this these two designers,
you know, like call and see availabilities and figure it
out. Like most of the time, you know,
where they've gotten the inspiration from the call,
right. And so we just do a really good
job of making sure that. Oh, OK, well, that was so and so

(28:12):
and so, and so. So let's like make sure that
they are available for this. Yeah.
And if they're not available to be on site or whatever, that's
when the collective kicks in andwe can sort of like add people
into the mix. So like, yeah.
Yeah. Well, and and you know, you can
obviously tell the client, you know, Sooner is not available
because she's whatever, but thisdesigner has worked with Sooner

(28:33):
for the last three years. You know, they work together
very closely. They'll collaborate on your
project even long distance. We think this would be a great
fit for you and chances are they're going to be OK with
that, obviously. Yeah, I mean.
That's cool. I hope so.
Well. Congratulations and good luck on
that. I I love the artwork and the you

(28:54):
know, the presentation that you guys have kicked out.
It looks really, really good andand I wish you the best.
Thanks. You can update that.
Website boy woof. You have a few other things
going on though too. You have the even network.
Yeah, yeah. And so that I think you started
a couple years ago as well, right?

(29:15):
Yeah, that was in 2020, May of 2020.
A COVID A COVID baby? COVID baby yeah, going
nonprofit. It's actually the first cohort
is actually at vendors in warehouses right now working.
So it's a, it's a registered apprenticeship program for our
business. Very cool.

(29:35):
So I don't know, we were just kind of thinking like if you can
be like an electrician for a house, wiring a house, but you
have to be like an apprentice electrician before you actually
get your license to be an electrician.
Why can't we do that with our business?
Like, yeah, apprentice lighting tech or video tech or pyrotech.
I always, and I say this, it's probably unpopular for me to say

(29:56):
this, but I mean, if you think about pyro, it's essentially
like the same stuff you have to do for plumbing, except toilets
obviously, but you've got gases and piping and fixings and stuff
that you have to deal with all the time.
So like it's. The same, I guess.
So when toilets blow up, it's a completely different problem,
you know? I mean honestly, like if I were
working for a pyro company I would probably just bring

(30:17):
toilets out into the parking lotand blow them up anyway with.
That's funny, That's funny. I remember one time when I was
dating my ex-wife and she lived in Chicago, I went to Chicago to
visit her and it was 4th of July.
And obviously in Canada that wasn't a thing.
And so I didn't know what to expect.

(30:37):
You know, I I'm like, OK, she said we're going to a 4th of
July party. OK cool.
That sounds like fun. And I've never seen anything
more than a little tiny firecracker.
Right? Like in Canada, it's basically
illegal, like everything else except drugs.
And, and so we go to this party and they're like handing me
things and saying here what? And I go, what do I do with

(30:59):
this? And, and it's like an M80, like
a little piece of dynamite basically.
And they said light it and throwit.
And I go, OK, so I light it and I'm like, holy shit.
And then I throw it and it goes into the neighbor's yard and
like, I don't know, 15 minutes later or something, the neighbor
or the, I think the police came and said, you guys are using

(31:20):
some rather large fireworks overhere.
And no, no, nothing really. You know, nothing too terribly.
And they said, well, your neighbor called with a complaint
that someone blew up their Rose Garden.
And I was like, yeah, that was me, Sir.
I'm sorry. I had no idea.
I'm Canadian. I'm an idiot.
And they were like, yeah, just be careful.
So after the police left, what did they do?

(31:42):
They put, like four of these M 80 things underneath a A tire.
And they said, we're going to blow up the tire.
So it shoots the tire like, I don't know, 50 feet in the air
straight into the same neighbor's backyard.
I mean, it was like, what are wedoing here?
You know we're going to go to jail.
But anyways, so yeah, Pyro's fun.

(32:02):
It is fun and hopefully you knowwe can get some younger kids
doing pyro and working with these vendors.
Well, you know, I quote you all the time because you were, you
were, I don't know if it was during COVID, maybe around the
same time that you were creatingthis business, but you said
something to me that people lookat our industry like we're a
bunch of gypsies and, and that there's no money to be made and

(32:28):
it's not a real job. And it's, you know, it's this
traveling circus kind of job andnobody takes it seriously.
But you can come into this industry brand new and make a
really good living and have a lot of fun and see the world and
and. See the world?
That's one. Of the more.
Important things to me I think is like seeing the world because
there's so many people that havejust such a closed mindset on

(32:50):
other cultures and other other countries and yeah, I think it's
really important to get people'sminds to expand with travel,
but. So how do you find these people?
Are you like advertising to get them into a?
Little bit, yeah. A lot of it's through high
schools right now. The program's only in
California. It needs to be successful for a

(33:11):
year. So by the August, I guess
through September, I think of this year, it'll be able to
expand nationally to the federalon the federal level.
What's what's keeping it back? Is it funding or something?
Yeah, it's a, it's a california-based program that
yeah, it's a, it's a government thing.
This is the stuff that I wouldn't be able to talk about
properly because that's where we'll be our somebody else.

(33:33):
The manager kind of takes care of that.
So, but yeah, it'll expand through the country, which is
awesome. So any vendors can start sort of
getting into the program with us?
That's cool. Yeah, it's fun.
It's nonprofit. Work is difficult, though.
I mean, fundraising alone is impossible, especially today

(33:55):
with the climate. Yeah, but you know, we're
working through it. We're starting to get some boots
on the ground and getting a fundraising committee together
and everything but that. That's the biggest part, right?
We've been getting some grants, which is helpful, but like,
it's, it's just, you know, it's not easy.
Yeah. Does anybody out there that

(34:16):
wants to sponsor a curriculum? Yeah, class like.
Let us know. So you're going to industry
companies to to sponsor these classes and stuff?
Yeah, we're trying to, that's the first, that's the biggest
plan is like to try to get vendors, manufacturers to
sponsor courses. So like lighting course and

(34:36):
video courses, they all it's an online learning platform that
they have to do right. Because in order to be an
apprentice, you have to you haveto continue education by doing
like online classes. So the that we have to create
this curriculum which is well onits way, but it costs a pretty
penny. So that's the that's the most
expensive part at the moment. So does a so a young person?

(35:00):
I guess they don't have to be young, but let's assume it's a,
you know, a, a 19 or 20 year oldkid comes in and says, you know,
I want to be a pyro person or I want to be a video person or
whatever. I have no experience whatsoever.
How does that work? Like how do they get through
that system? There's an application process
and an interview process, and once they go through that and

(35:23):
they're accepting the program, then they get placed with a
vendor. OK.
Yeah, a vendor. Yeah, like or a manufacturer
still, like right now, you know,we have a bunch of vendor
partners that are placing the apprentices into their
warehouses to, you know, to Start learning the ropes and

(35:44):
they're doing. All.
Oh I see, so it's more of an apprenticeship program than it
is a A school? It is.
Yes, it is. It is.
That is what it is. It's an apprenticeship program.
It's. OK, I get it now.
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah.
So they apply and do an interview, and then they get
paired with a vendor. But.
And, yeah, there's six right nowin California that are going

(36:07):
through the program. Very cool.
Yeah. It's fun.
It's good. And they're doing very well.
Yeah. So they're learning the ropes.
I think we've got lighting and video and special effects right
now. I think audio.
Yeah, I have to look at that. So do they get paid in these
jobs or they're or they're interns or how does it work?
They get paid, get paid. That's amazing.

(36:29):
Registered apprenticeship program.
I don't know. Registered as in like government
registered, right? Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know why it would,why it would be hard.
Like you'd think there'd be a line down the block of people
wanting to get into. That to well, it's there's a lot
of people that want to actually do the program.
The problem is getting, you know, we, we don't have enough

(36:52):
resources to have a ton of kids in it right now.
Right now. Yeah.
Their apprentices like I don't want to say kids because I would
love to expand it to veterans at.
Some point, I think that's very.That would be amazing, yeah.
But I mean, for us, the challenge is just like getting
things paid for so that we can boost our resources to be able
to accept more, you know? Well, do you even have a full

(37:13):
time employee? Yeah.
Oh, you do. You have one.
And they, yeah, they basically run all the insurance and outs
of the day-to-day part of the business.
Yeah, it's hard, man. What you're doing.
This whole nonprofit thing is really, really hard.
I've been involved in far too many of them.
I do more nonprofit business than I do profit business, and I

(37:33):
really need to change that aboutmyself, especially as I get
older. You know, it's like I'm busy 20
hours a day and I go, did I makeany money at all today or did I
just help lots of people and which is?
Good, right? Oh, it's amazing.
I love it. I I love.
The problem is I say yes to everything.
And yeah, I mean, maybe it's theCanadian in US, I don't know,

(37:57):
but I, I literally say yes to everything.
And even when I'm not saying yes, I'm volunteering and
saying, hey, you know what, likeyou should be looking at this
and I'll tell you what, let me give you a hand with that and
I'll show you how to work it or whatever.
Like it's just how how I'm a payforward kind of guy.
Same. But what I've learned, sadly,

(38:19):
the older I get, the more I learn, is that it doesn't always
come back to you. You know, quite often those same
person that those same people that you paid it forward to, you
know will will step over you as you're laying dying on the
sidewalk. You know, those step right over
you and keep on walking. And it's sad but somewhat true.

(38:39):
But it doesn't change who I am. I'm always going to do it.
I'm always going to be that person.
Because yeah, it's just me, right?
Yeah, you're just putting in theuniverse anyway, right?
Yeah, exactly. Maybe someday, you know, it'll
it'll, it'll be like, you know, there's there's a gate going
this way and a gate going this way and I'll kind of get nudged
to the right direction somehow. I don't know how because I've

(39:00):
done a lot of bad shit as long. As those people that are, you
know, stepping over you don't push you down, Yeah, So they can
get in that game for you. Throw you into the burning pits?
Yeah, that's bound to happen. I've got some enemies out there
for sure. So, you know, because you don't
have enough going on. I've just discovered this

(39:21):
morning that you, well, I think it's more Chris, your husband,
but you have another business being started called Set Change.
Yeah. And first of all, I love the
name. I think it's a killer name.
And secondly, I wanted to tell you that I had this crazy idea,
and this was probably 15 years ago, maybe 20 years ago.

(39:42):
I had gone through the up staging.
Actually, it was probably at least 20 years ago because it
was when they moved from Mundelein or, yeah, from
Mundelein out to where they are now.
Yeah, it was probably only a year after they moved and I was
getting the tour from Huddleston.
And. This morning by the.

(40:02):
Way, how did you Yeah. And so HUD, we're walking by
this area where it's just a bunch of junk and I'm like what
is this and he goes don't even ask and I said what?
And he said we just keep gettingstuck storing sets here for
people. And because they're huge tours
like the Stones and stuff like that, that we're heavily
involved in when they call asking, you always kind of go,

(40:25):
Oh yeah, we'll figure something out.
And they're like just for a few months and then we'll, we'll
either sell it or we'll decide to use it again.
And then it ends up there for like 3 years, right?
Oh, gosh. And one of the ideas that that
they had when I was actually walking through, I think it was
the steel wheels tour or something like that.
It was one of the big stones tours.
And they had all these stage decks that had just been dumped

(40:47):
there. And so they came up with this
idea where they put legs on these stage decks and turned
them into conference tables and they wanted to, they wanted to
have the band autograph each oneof them and then just lacquer
over the autographs or something, right?
It was a cool idea. And they, they priced them at 5

(41:07):
grand and they had all kinds of interest for them, but they had
to get a sign off and they couldn't get the sign off.
They were like, just throw them away.
We don't want to do that, you know, and, and, but I thought it
was a brilliant idea. But anyways, the idea I had here
in Florida and probably in Tennessee as well, There's,
there's, well, not so much in Tennessee maybe now, but there's
lots of land and where you can kind of go in the backwoods

(41:31):
somewhere and build a large facility.
And I kept thinking of having like this, this big, you know,
almost like a Quonset kind of facility with all these sets
stored in there. And it's a museum that people
can pay to go to this Rock'n'roll set museum.
And every one of them is for sale though, And so I'm going.

(41:53):
To talk to you tomorrow about more of this.
Yeah. Oh, geez, you've got some ideas.
Have you been listening to my crazy brain while I'm laying
awake at night and making up these crazy ideas?
Because I love that idea. It's just my problem is I have
more ideas than I do of me and and of money.
Time management, right? Yeah.
It's and you know, you don't want to go out and find

(42:15):
investors to pay for all that stuff and then as you.
As you need to have investors. Yeah, so I, you know, that was
just one of those ones that it was like, what a great idea.
And then it just got thrown on the heap and I never did
anything with it. But I hope you're doing
something like that. That would be cool.
But that. One, we shall see.
Yeah, Such change has three phases and the first phase

(42:36):
hasn't launched yet, but I'm hoping to get your help with it.
Yeah. And it's just a marketplace
honestly, like we're trying to like keep it as like so it can
kind of run itself as much as possible, right for now.
It's just it's, you know, the model is honestly kind of like a
Facebook marketplace, like we'reselling it, you know, or

(42:58):
somebody selling it. And it's a point people
connector thing and. Yeah, I will tell you that
marketplaces are somewhere between the most incredible and
the most fucked up business in the whole world.
Like it's and every day it's both of those two, it seems like
something will happen and you'llbe like, I love this business

(43:18):
and something happens and you go, God, what a horrible
business. And you know.
Sounds familiar? Yeah.
Yeah, that's true too. But the very first problem with
the marketplace is, is this thing and you should get the
book, it's called Cold Start Problem.
Andrew Chen, I think his name isOK.

(43:39):
And basically the cold start problem is that you've, they
call it the chicken and egg problem too, because you either
have supply and no demand or youhave demand and no supply.
It's really hard to build both at the same time.
Yeah. And so most marketplaces start
on one side or the other. They either go all in on supply
or go all in on demand. And once you have one of those

(44:00):
two sides, generally the other side, you can then focus on them
and they'll come. Right, Right.
And but I'll tell you the magic happens when you have both of
those things. And then there's this other
keyword that they use in in the marketplace world called network
effects. And when network effects happens

(44:21):
for everyone set you add, you add 10 customers and then they
add more sets because there's more customers.
And now the sets add and you know, as you're building supply
and demand, it just creates this, this sort of self morphing
thing that just turns into either hell or or heaven.

(44:41):
And again, every day is is one of those two to me, usually both
depending what time. Oh man, OK.
But I'm excited for you. It's a it's a cool business.
On the road. I think it's a good concept.
It's a need because there is a lot of this stuff out there and
it's a cool name and oh. Thanks.
For me, it was like it, it was, it wasn't just about like, yeah,

(45:04):
a lot of it was also just about being more eco friendly, right?
Yeah, recycling sets as opposed to putting in landfills and
stuff. Totally.
And I, I mean, I get a lot of questions like smaller
management teams that are like, I just, we don't have the start
up to build a set. Like we need risers, we need a
drum riser, we need stairs, we need something on stage for the

(45:27):
band and for our artists to kindof run around.
Like know anybody who has something in storage or
whatever. And I've there's the one thing
that I've I'm always looking forare the crank up cards for
video. So that if you have like a video
set on stage, it like can get higher and you can roll it on
stage for a festival set and roll it off stage, right.

(45:49):
Like those. That was the one thing I've been
looking. I've been asking for those for
years. And I always, we always end up
getting some version, but it's like, Oh, yeah, this video
company has a set. And oh, this video company has a
set, but they're always like, owor what?
So like things like that, you know, like things that we know
exist, they're just taking up space that doesn't need to be

(46:11):
taken up. You can be on the road, you
know? Yeah.
And I know that artists spend somuch money on storage, so, so
much money on stores. Yeah, it's true.
It's true. Or, or some of the larger
companies who have lots of spacejust end up giving, giving the
storage away to keep the client or whatever, right.
Yeah. But yeah.

(46:32):
And again, like, I don't know how many times you've seen an
artist use the same set, but it doesn't happen that often unless
it's the same tour. Basically just sort of keeps
going. Col.
J's great at it. Are they?
Coldplay's great at it, yes. Yeah, well, they're big on the
whole the whole earth and recycling thing, which is really

(46:52):
cool anyways. But as a side note, I actually I
sit on the board for the Pyro company that does Coldplay or
that sells. I think they probably do it
through I don't remember who your SFX company.
Is. Yeah.
So they sell to strictly. So really, really, really good

(47:16):
people. Did I say Pyro company?
Yeah. Confetti company.
Confetti Company, Yeah. Confetti Company.
Sorry, I sit on the board for the Confetti company.
Artistry in Motion. Yeah.
Who who who provide all the confetti to So, you know,
they're always telling me these stories of how Coldplay say, but

(47:38):
the material needs to do this and it needs to be this and it's
got to disappear in this amount of time and it's got to be
biodegradable and it's got to beso, you know, they really make
them, you know, dig hard on the like.
You wouldn't think there's any technology in confetti, but I've
learned so much from these guys.Like there really is, there's,
there's a lot going. On there, yeah.

(47:59):
It's not just paper. Yeah, but even if it is just
paper, it's like very specific paper that has to be this
reflective and this weight and it has to flutter like this.
And it's got a, you know, it's got to do all these things.
And then you've got all these artists now who are printing
like dollar bills on on confetti.
So they've got like fake money that they're shooting out.

(48:21):
And it's wild. We.
Did for paramour a couple years ago.
We did different pieces that said This is why, which was
their single time, OK Fans were like collecting all three of
those words so they could like frame them and put them.
In Oh, that's cool. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's
another interesting thing that I've learned is there's a whole

(48:43):
business in that, that souvenir confetti thing, like, you know,
people are are grabbing as much of it as they can and selling it
on eBay and it's wild, wild. But then we had a tour where we
did like we would put like 5 special pieces of confetti in
like cannons and like if a fan found that piece they could

(49:05):
bring it to the merch table and get like something for.
Free. What a cool idea, and that's a
great. Idea I'm pretty sure like most
of them were found which is crazy to me.
It's just like who? Who are these fans that are like
literally like digging through the empty coke?
Box well, or who's the who's theconfetti tech who's selling
those pieces of confetti to somebody?

(49:26):
You. Know.
There you go. Hadn't thought about that way,
but true. You want the prize confetti?
Here you go. Yeah.
That's hilarious. Yeah, that's funny.
Yeah, I. Can't remember what tour it was
but yeah it. Was artistry in motion?
Actually, Speaking of confetti guys, I think it was the Super
Bowl. They had a video that went viral
on during the Super Bowl. There was somebody got a camera

(49:49):
on the guy that was like, I think stuff in the cannons with
the confetti right before, 'cause you know, at the Super
Bowl, like they've got green andwhite for, for the Eagles and
they've got red and whatever it is white for the, for Kansas
City. And at the end of the game, they
got to really quickly load thoseconfetti cannons so that you

(50:10):
know, they can blast them all right away.
And you got to put the right stuff in.
Obviously you don't want to haveKansas City colors when
Philadelphia wins. But anyways, he was he was
getting this ready or something,and he was doing something
funny. I don't even remember what
happened on the video, but they called him confetti guy and this
video got out on social media and it went it's probably at

(50:30):
like 4 million views or something right now.
So he's famous in artistry in motion.
He's like, hey, I'm the confettiguy.
It's. Like the left shark from Katy
Perry's performance. Yeah, it's true.
It's true, True. Yeah.
That's hilarious. So what else did I want to talk
to you about? There's so much.

(50:50):
We used to have people that helpstuff the confetti cannons for
Kiss. If there was anybody, like, any
sort of, you know, musician or artist or whoever out front
watching the show, we would makethem do it with us.
Oh, really? Fun, Yeah.
Yeah, until somebody loses a hand or something and then it's.
No good anymore or stuff something accidentally that

(51:13):
should not be, Yeah. You know that's true too, that.
Of a confetti cannon. That's true, too.
Yeah. So Speaking of KISS, what do you
think of them going out and touring again after they retired
and, you know, we're done? This is it.
This is the final final farewelltour of all 12 farewell tours.
I have not even heard any. Are they actually doing that
well? I don't know if they're touring

(51:34):
or if it's just a show, but I I believe it's more than one show
as I recall. I don't know anything about it
to be honest. And then I read that there's
going to be guest appearances from, you know, Peter, Chris and
like, you know, the ace freely, the previous members and stuff.
I mean, my husband will be really excited about it.
He's a big fan. Is he?

(51:54):
I mean, I was for a while, like,you know, I mean, I was a
massive fan almost 50 years ago.But yeah, today, you know what?
Like I think I told you I went and saw them.
I don't know when it was, it wasprobably 20.
Oh, no, it was probably 19. It was 2019 in was it Fort

(52:16):
Lauderdale maybe? And and they were really good.
Like they, well, I'm just looking at him going, he's 68
and he's 69 and like they're still shaking their ass and, and
they're still. Shoes in those.
Shoes, yeah, and. Heavy.
They, they just, they didn't mail it in, you know what I

(52:37):
mean? Like they really still put on a
great show and they sounded pretty good.
And you know, I mean, Kiss didn't set a very high bar for
musicianship and, and all that kind of stuff.
It was more about shaking your ass and blowing fire and
spitting blood and stuff. But but they really did put on a
good show. I was, I was very impressed.

(52:58):
I was that. Was a good tour.
I didn't expect to be impressed,but I was.
Yeah, that was a good tour. You were still with him then,
right as I recall. Yeah, that was the last.
One yeah and yeah, cuz I think Ihad just had Doc McGee on my
podcast and he's like, hey, we're coming down at Fort
Lauderdale. I want you over at that show.

(53:18):
And I said OK then. That man.
And, you know, my girlfriend is British and, and kind of proper
and she's never been a real heavy rock kind of person.
Like she's more of a Rod Stewartor Elton John kind of person.
So I took her to her first, likethat kind of a concert and she
was like loving it. She was having such a great

(53:39):
time. And she's 5 feet tall and she
got her picture taken with the guys, you know, and she come.
Up to like their chest basicallylike waist.
Yeah, it's pretty funny. I'll send you the picture later.
I have one of my mom and my dad with them and she was pretty
short too. And it was to say it was just
like looking. She's just like.

(53:59):
Yeah. Looking up a giant man.
Yeah, it is. So funny.
I love that though, but I mean it is funny that they're going
out again like. I had no idea.
Yeah, I think at some point, using a British term, you're
taking the piss, you know, with your fans when you keep saying,
OK, this is it. Like, you know, the Mötley Crüe
one where they wrote a a contract to their fans saying we

(54:22):
will never tour again. This is it.
It's final. So in other words, pay us these
exorbitant prices for these tickets because you're never
going to see us again. And then, you know, COVID
happens and they come out right after COVID with a stadium tour,
you know? So I know.
Money is powerful. Yeah, it is, honestly.
And when you're sitting around and you've been doing this for

(54:44):
so long, it's like it's really difficult to like get out of
that lifestyle, right? Like, yeah, that to me, I think
like if I'm home for a really, really long time, I start
getting, you know, antsy. And I think it's just because of
years and years. It's just being on the go
constantly, right? And I can't imagine if you're
doing, if you're playing in a band for why is it like what

(55:08):
year? 50th.
Yeah, 50th anniversary. I mean, I can't imagine if
you've been doing that for 50 years and then suddenly you're
just nothing. It's like, what's next?
Are you too young to remember Triumph?
I know, I know. Yes, I know Triumph.
But I yes. Yeah, you wouldn't have been a
fan. You were too young.
No, but. I also didn't have a lot of
music exposure up in northern Vermont, right?

(55:29):
Like we didn't have a lot. Like we had one AM radio station
in the area and then as like I got older, we finally could get,
we got some FM stations out of Burlington and out Of Montreal
and one FM station opened up in the area.
So like, but we didn't have, it wasn't like when I was a kid,

(55:51):
you know, up until like 12 yearsold or whatever, we didn't
really have a lot of music exposure.
We didn't have MTV or anything so.
Well, I grew up on Triumph, you know, being a Canadian, it was
Triumph and Rush for me. Yeah.
And so Fast forward to now, I'm,I'm good friends with Gilmore,

(56:13):
the drummer from Triumph, because he has a, a recording
studio where like a lot of big, big acts, Drake and, and
Metallica's recorded there and stuff that's called Metalworks.
And, and he also has a rental company, a sound and lighting
and video rental company, also under the same name, Metalworks.
And so I've done business with him for 10 years through Gear

(56:36):
Source. And anyways, I've been talking
with him. He's, they're, they're doing a
50th anniversary tour this year with no original members and,
and they're going to have like hologram or holograph.
Or whatever. That technology, but I think
they're just using I think they're using LED screens that

(56:57):
are that are see through LED screens or whatever.
But anyways, the real band is gonna be playing on, you know,
these holograms. Yeah.
And and there's gonna be a live band though, which is made-up of
like I think Phil X is in it andjust some really, really good
players. A month ago, yeah.

(57:19):
Yeah, we do. That's great.
He was just in Nashville and a bunch of us went.
So high. He's such a talented guy, that
guy. Like if you had to build a band
around a guy, he'd be a really good pick.
He's a great singer, great player, good guy, a lot of fun.
He's a good guy. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it was really good to see him.
Yeah, so, so there's going to bethis sort of All Star band kind

(57:41):
of behind the screen and then triumph on the screen and and
they're going to tour this thing.
So. I think they're doing two or
three shows as a little package to start and then and then
they're going to see if the promoter wants to do the full
tour. And yeah, so it's going to be,
it's gonna be gonna be interesting.

(58:02):
I used to design a lot of these,like, tribute shows.
There was a actually Canadian promoter out of Western Canada
that I used to do. Like, I think we did a Bee Gees
1. And what else did we do?
I think I helped out with their Pink Floyd version, and then I
helped out with their Beatles one at one point.
And it was so much fun because they were just, you know, my

(58:23):
favorite medium, like a theater.Yeah.
And they just, you know, ran lean and mean and, and made good
profit. And yeah, I just get to, I mean,
the Bee Gees 1 was really, really, really fun.
Like I still am at Bee Gees fan now because of that show.
So. Yeah, well, yeah, I'll tell you
what, the the tribute bands thatare out now, like every once in

(58:44):
a while I'll see a journey one pop up and I'll just be like,
yeah, whoa. And I mean, there's this one, I
forget what they're called, but the singer looks like Steve
Perry. He does the whole thing with his
shoulder and stuff. Just like Steve Perry sounds
exactly like Steve Perry. I mean, like I saw a video and
I'm I'm going, what tour was that?

(59:05):
And then I realized it wasn't Journey.
And my girlfriend comes in and goes, Oh my God, he sounded so
good back then. And I'm like, no, that's not
him. Like that's some dude who's in a
fake Journey band. But there's so many really good
cover bands right now. I can only imagine like the
scrutiny they get to right? Like, I mean, they must get so

(59:26):
much hate throwing out them if they've like done anything off
of, you know, that's not like completely what the band they're
being, you know what I mean? It's got to be for.
Yeah, exactly. I can only imagine like how
difficult that must be if they're not adhering to exactly
what that band that they're. Attributing.
Yeah, you can't. You can't ad Lib you you.

(59:48):
Got yeah, you can't at all. It's gonna be on top of your
shit when you do that, so yeah. How are you though with these
bands that are that are like touring with no no original
people like Foreigner for example, no original numbers.
I mean, I, I don't really like, I don't really watch any of this

(01:00:08):
stuff. Yeah, that's, but I, I feel
like, you know, they got to do what they got to do, right?
Like if they're selling tickets and they still want a tour and
they then I mean. Yeah, it's just weird.
It's, it's just kind of weird, you know, it's like a good
friend of mine is a guitar player in Calgary.
Yeah. And last week he, I was talking

(01:00:29):
to him and I said, what are you doing tonight?
And he said I got to go meet up with some of the guys from, from
April Wine. They're in town right now and
I've got a few friends in the band.
And I said, oh, what are they doing?
And he said it's April Wine. Who was it?
April Wine? There were three bands BTO April
Wine and I forget who the third band was for some reason.

(01:00:52):
But anyways, one of them had oneoriginal member, one had none.
BTO has I think 1. And you know, they're out doing
this tour where 3 bands. There's a total of 3 original
members from all three bands. Combined, right?
And, and it's selling really well apparently.
So hey, you know people. Want to be entertained, you

(01:01:12):
know, and if they're hearing, Yeah, exactly.
They're hearing their songs of their youth, Yeah.
You know, no matter who's playing with them, as long as
as, as long as it's like adhering to that bands, you
know? Well, or, or generations like my
son, you know, grew up listeningto my music in my cars and
stuff. And so so like my ex-wife, his

(01:01:35):
mom has always been a huge Queens Reich fan.
She grew up with Queens Reich. She worked for their record
company for a number of years. She got very friendly with them
and to this day, like she's got a Queens Reich tattoo on her
ankle and stuff, right? So I don't know if you know, but
right now Queens Reich is 2 bands.
There's Queens Reich with the band plus a new singer, and then

(01:01:57):
there's Jeff Tate's Queen Reich Queens, right?
So it was Jeff Tate's Queen Reich, Queens Reich that was in
in town last week and she dragged him out to go to it and
he sent me some. Pictures of.
Him and Jeff Tate and stuff. And he's like, dad, It was
actually really good. Like, he knows every word to
every song because that's awesome.
In his mom's car. It's all she listens to, right?

(01:02:18):
And so he grew up, you know, going Jets City Woman.
And so he knew every song and hewas like, dad, It was actually
really good. I enjoyed it.
So. And he's like a hip hop kid.
There's a pretty cool insurgenceof like nostalgic rock coming up
right now. I feel like that's like a lot of
people are doing reunion tours that you wouldn't think would

(01:02:41):
have ever done a. Reunion tour, Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I'm honestly like,I'm really excited about Oasis.
I know that. Yeah.
I'm so excited about that. So you think that's actually
gonna happen? Oh God, I hope so.
It sure seems like it could ignite at any moment.
I know I'm really. Hoping I can catch it when it
comes to North America but. For the minute while they're

(01:03:03):
together. I know, but I mean, there just
seems to be a lot of that going on.
People just want to hear songs that they're that give them
comfort and happiness. I.
Guess I'm not. Sure what it is.
Or helps them relive those days.Or yeah, helps their kids, you
know. Yeah, there's a huge appetite

(01:03:24):
for it. It seems like it it just the the
tours that are still selling outand selling loads of tickets
like Journey and and sticks, forexample, or Oreo and Sticks or
whatever. And Oreo, I know they just blew
up a little bit. Yeah.
But you know, some of those bands, like, who knew?
Because I remember my first Sticks album, I was like
probably 8 years old or something.
And this is a long friggin time ago.

(01:03:46):
And. And who knew they'd still be
touring now? Like, I had no idea.
And I guess the Stones would probably tell you the same thing
Mick could be like. Yeah, I didn't think so.
I mean, that's a big. I think this was going to
happen. Yeah, yeah, we're excited.
We're we're hoping to see Metallica here coming through in

(01:04:06):
a couple weeks. And then Chris Hustle really
wants to see ACDC. So Oh yeah, I've got some rock
shows in my future, I think. Yeah, I saw Metallica in
Edmonton last year cuz I have myhouse up there in Banff, right?
And so I was talking with Rob, maybe he was even on my podcast
or something, and he's like, yougot to come and see it.
And I said, OK, are you coming to Western Canada?

(01:04:27):
And I'm expecting no because most bands don't.
And if they do, it's Vancouver, right?
So I thought I had a, you know, it wasn't going to happen.
And then he he said Edmonton. And one of my long time best
buddies lives in Edmonton. And it was his birthday that
day. And so I took him and his
girlfriend and went to the show.And I actually really enjoyed

(01:04:49):
it. I loved it.
And I've never been a Metallica guy, but that show, like just
the Normandy of it all, just like Coldplay.
Like I'm not a massive Coldplay fan, but the size and scope of
that show I I would love to see at some point.
And yeah, I mean, it's just like, it's cool.
It's cool that Metallica is still touring.

(01:05:09):
It's weird, but cool. I'm.
Excited to see it. Yeah.
Honestly, and I'm also really excited to see Robin, what he's
created. Yeah, it's.
Cool, it's cool. I'll tell you the whole thing.
Like just the way they do in theround is is just very unique and
different and you know, it's just cool.
I really, really enjoyed it other than the, the, the fact

(01:05:32):
that it was loud like I mean, and that's when I started
feeling like an old guy, you know, cuz I've never complained
about volume, but I was standingin front of the Subs and it was
just like. Oh gosh, it.
Was just beating the hell out ofme.
Yeah. But otherwise it was really
great. It was a great show.
Nice. Yeah, I'm excited.
I think that's coming right up here.
Actually. I think it's like the beginning

(01:05:53):
of May. Yeah, they like Coldplay too,
right? They just keep touring, keep
touring, keep going. It's a machine.
They own all their gear, or theyown a lot of their gear.
They own the sound system. They own all the video screens,
I think. I think a bunch of the staging
too maybe? And if you go out that long, it
kind of makes sense. I guess it kind of does, yeah.

(01:06:13):
And they've had this partnership, I think on the
sound system with, with Mire Forever, where they just keep
upgrading to a new system. And so, yeah, it makes sense.
I mean, Journey did that way, way back in the earliest days
when they first started. They just, they bought all their
own production and they toured with all their own stuff and

(01:06:35):
they had a sound and lighting company and they'd rent it out
when they weren't using it. And Smart Pink Floyd did that
with their sound system with Britannia Rowe.
I think I knew that. Yeah, well, if you listen to my
podcast, you'd learn all this stuff.
So I had the Britannia Row guys on too.
That see that that is when I'm sad I missed out on it is David.

(01:06:57):
David Gilmour. Yeah, David Gilmour coming
through I'm so sad I missed out on.
That. So I was really hoping he would
announce some more dates this summer or this year, but I don't
think it's gonna. Happen.
Mark says no, but a lot of people I know say yes.
So because it did so well and hehad a lot of fun and he still
feels like he can still do it. And I mean, he played well.

(01:07:20):
He sounded good and but Mark, I don't know if that's just Mark,
yeah, being Mark, but Mark is Mark says no, it's not going to
happen and it's over. But I hope you get to see it
because it was cool. But that whole thing, yeah, I
want to see Mark's with the. Stylus was really neat.
Work on that too. Yeah, it was neat.

(01:07:40):
Yeah, well. Put in a universe that'll come
back, hopefully. Yeah, that's true.
That's true. What else?
What else are you doing that we haven't talked about?
Cuz you got about 42 companies. I know you.
Closed the you. Closed the house design.
One, yeah, the staging company went away after COVID, Yeah, no
sense keeping that going. You know, just that like we're

(01:08:01):
really focused on the playgroundand on set change, launching set
change. Yeah, as soon as we can.
Yeah. I mean, it's all pretty
manageable though. You know, it's, it's kind of
like if you surround yourself with the right people, then
everything's pretty manageable. But I'm, I mean, I'm kind of,
I'm looking forward to having July and August here in

(01:08:23):
Nashville. I'm going to go spend weekends
at the lake as much as possible.And in fact, I'm going to be
here all of May too, so that's cool.
Kind of looking forward to spending time at the lake and.
Are you guys really enjoying that lake Lake house?
Yeah, it's so good. We were there over the weekend.
Yeah, we've had it. Yeah, since Jeez.

(01:08:44):
When we get it, December 21. Yeah.
Yeah. And it's, you know, we were
there this weekend, cleaning theboat out and getting ready to
put in the party barge, as we call it.
Yeah. And other than that, I mean,
just like getting these shows off the ground, building the
company up, honestly, building up some up and coming designers

(01:09:08):
through the company and trying to just build, I don't know,
build, build, build. Yeah, I guess.
Yeah, It's it's not there's right now.
It's pretty feels. Everything feels pretty calm and
manageable at this very moment. Right.
Let's. Yeah, I'm sure that will change
very soon. Yeah.
It's gonna be crazy. Yeah.

(01:09:29):
But yeah, I'm not at Coachella. Yeah, we have artists there, but
I'm not there, so I don't have to go out this weekend for there
'cause I'll be in Vienna. Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know. Everything's pretty.
That sounds. Cool.
I mean, I I want your life sounds.
Fun it sounds. Amazing.
Calm. Amazing.

(01:09:49):
Successful. If you would have called me in
January, it would have been a very difficult, different story.
Yeah. Yeah, it would have been a
little crazy. I love all the projects you have
going on. I think you you are doing some
really cool things. I mean, the nonprofit 1 is
obviously it is what it is. It's hard.
It's hard. It's always hard to do things
that that are new and different and people have never done.

(01:10:09):
But then you add to it the component of, you know, a
not-for-profit, you know, that relies on government funding and
stuff like that. Then it's just like that much
more complex, right? Yeah, and I think it's just a
little bit more stressful right now, Yeah, just with the current
climate. But you know, we're just going
to roll with the punches. Yeah.

(01:10:30):
As as they happen, yeah. I'll tell you what, you're a
champion because I know you justhad dental work this morning and
you managed to smile and laugh. And giggle all anybody can hear
that. But like the entire left side or
right side of my face has been the entire stage left side of my
face, I think, I think you. Talk better with dental work.
So I think you should just you should do it more often.

(01:10:51):
I understand. You way better now.
Maybe they should just give me nitrous all the time.
Yeah, I mean, it's good. It was supposed to be a super
easy appointment. And then all of a sudden, yeah,
like, got like, needles all in my mouth.
But yeah, I, I'm feeling good now.
It's starting to, like, wear off, which is great.
Yeah. Just in time for happy hour with
a homie that's in town. Oh, cool.

(01:11:12):
Fun. Yeah.
Love to join you well. Anytime.
Thank you Sooner. I appreciate you coming on again
very much. Thank you.
I want you to come back anytime you got something to promote or
talk about or share or whatever,and look forward to talking to
you tomorrow about the other stuff, Woo.
Hoo, I'm excited to tell you about phase two and.

(01:11:33):
Phase two. Yeah.
Can't wait. Can't wait.
All right, have a good one all. Right, you too.

(01:12:02):
Music.