#323 - Sharon Lee - Respect and Kindness in the Touring Industry - LEADING LADIES PODCAST - Geezers of Gear

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
So you could talk about major catastrophic.
So that would fall under the illness accidents, right, those
types of things. So setting that kind of thing
aside, some of the challenges, Iwould say I'm very protective of
our drivers. They're all friends and I treat
them like that and they treat melike that as well.

(00:22):
So some of the things are not being treated well on the road.
That's that's a concern and thathas to be addressed.
And some of the drivers were like, well, I'll deal with it.
I don't want to make waves. You know, we had one tour, it
was a very short tour, 5 trucks on the tour and they were
treated horribly. And the lead driver didn't tell

(00:44):
me until the end of the tour andhe said I didn't want to make
trouble. It was only three weeks.
And every driver at the end of that called me individually and
said I'll never work with them again.
And I said neither will I That'sfine, that's OK.

(01:10):
Now here's the leading ladies. But geezers of gear on tour.
Maybe she got some stories to share.
Now here's the leading ladies bythe geezers of gear Rockstar
Ladies for some stories to share.

(01:32):
Because La La La La ladies. So, Sharon, welcome to Leading
Ladies Podcast. Thank you so much for taking the

(01:54):
time to come and chat with me. Thank you for having me so
excited. Yeah, no, it's lovely.
This is you're somebody else that's being recommended by Cara
Kemp from Echo Live. So again, can't thank you
enough. Cara, she said that you was
absolutely incredible and I had to get you on and talk to you.
So the first thing I always ask is where, where are you now?

(02:17):
Where's your home as you've got a great background going on
there? Yeah.
So home is Nashville. I live right outside of
Nashville and Franklin. My company is based here as
well. And I am currently in a Home
Office. I do have an office that I don't
go to, but I do have one. But most of the time I'm just
very comfortable working from here.

(02:39):
So I'm in my Home Office. That's, I think sometimes it's
nice to have an office and obviously you've got a
headquarters, but to work in your own space, you know, you
could, it's, it just brings out the best in people.
I know so many people are now very frustrated that they have
to go into an office when obviously during COVID it was
all home, home officed. And I think being at home, as

(03:04):
long as you're doing your work, really brings out the best in
you. Yeah.
And one of the things about Nashville that I learned, I
moved here about 10 years ago. We are the people of Nashville.
And I say we now because I've been here 10 years, so I feel
like I'm a Nashvillian. Very social.
So even when you're working froma Home Office, we're very, very

(03:25):
social. So coffee meetings are a really
big thing here. Face to face is still a really
big thing here. So maybe not necessarily going
into a physical office, althougha lot of us, you know, do, but
especially in the touring industry.
We're meeting for lunch, we're meeting for coffee, We're
connecting somewhere meaning forDonuts, Donuts are a big thing.

(03:48):
Tacos. So, yeah.
So it's still a great. It's I love that about
Nashville, that it's still very much a relational city.
That's great because here I I think most people know that are
listening. I live in Creek, Greece but.
I am the president and founder of High Road based in Nashville
and we are a tour trekking company.

(04:09):
We do entertainment, live events, anything that's in that
space, concerts, live music, productions, anything like that.
I started the company in 2016. I also have a facility up north
in the northeast that acts as kind of a a home base up there.

(04:30):
That's where I'm originally fromand we do some local events up
there and some warehousing and things like that.
But my primary base is here in Nashville, and we focus on, you
know, it's interesting. We, we, we never really had a
focus, you know, a specific genre.
People always assume we must be country music being in

(04:52):
Nashville, and we've had very few country artists that we tour
with. Yeah, we tour with one right
now. We're on tour right now with
Wynona Judge, which is a fantastic tour, but for some
reason we have slid into some very niche markets of death

(05:12):
metal, K pop and indie bands. That's brilliant.
That's a real whole genre of, of, of all different, yeah,
different types of music. And I mean, how many, how many
tours have you got out at the moment, if you don't mind me
asking? So you you've got one country
going out at the moment. I think we have maybe 10.

(05:36):
Out right now, that's incredible.
That's incredible. And do you go and visit these
tours, especially if maybe they come locally to you, you go
check on everyone, not check on everyone, you know, like just
pop in and say. Check in, check in, not check
on. Yeah, I do.
It's really hard to visit tours in Nashville, to be honest.
First of all, there's no market here for K pop, There's no

(05:56):
market here for death metal. So they never really come to
Nashville. And then the ones that do come
to Nashville, we are such a music industry city that
everyone's here. So when a tour comes to town,
everyone wants to go visit, which makes it very difficult.
And it it, it almost feels like I'm imposing on the crew, on the

(06:22):
production manager, the tour manager when they're here.
So a lot of times I will reach out to them and just say, hey,
want to pop in, say hello, what city is best for me to do that?
And they very rarely say Nashville.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's so I fly anywhere to check in.
And usually I'll go in, I'll meet with my drivers.

(06:42):
We'll go to lunch or coffee or dinner or something like that,
visit with the crew production manager, make sure everything's
going well. Is there anything they need,
that kind of thing. And then, you know, I'll just
spend a day there and, and, and visit with them.
So if you don't mind me asking, so before you started High Road
in 2016, what drew you to this point?

(07:05):
So what would you do before and drew you to actually starting
High Road? Yeah.
So it's, I think it's an interesting story, but I'll try
to tell you the short version. So I had been in trucking for
years, almost 20 years at that point.
And I had been with a company where we did conferences and we

(07:25):
did trade shows and that was ourniche market.
So and it was the same thing. I would fly out to the trade
shows, I'd go out to the conferences, I would meet with
the team. I would be there on site during
what I guess in the live music interest.
We call it load in, load out, but it's very similar in the
trade show world. It's fairly successful.

(07:47):
Loved what I did, love to the people I worked with.
My daughter, who at the time wasa teenager, was a big fan of the
Jonas Brothers, very big fan. So we did a ton of their
concerts and she wasn't old enough to go alone, so I would
go with her. And we were at a Jonas Brothers.
No, sorry. It was like a Nick Jonas in the
Whatever administration tour. We were at one of their shows

(08:09):
and as we're walking down the hallway, there were Rd. cases
lined the hallway. And I looked at them and I
thought, wow, these look like trade showcases.
And there were some stickers on there from some other companies
that I was familiar with in the trucking industry.
And I started to think this is probably something, I think this

(08:30):
is something I could figure out.How hard could it be?
It's really hard. So it took me several years to
really hone in on that. And I was in Boston at the time.
I didn't know anything. So I was calling concert
promoters. I was just calling anybody who
would answer the phone and just try to get a meeting with them,

(08:53):
spend time with them, ask them questions.
And it was a concert promoter who was fantastic up there who
kind of took me under his wing and said, why don't you come
volunteer and work a couple shows with me and just get a
feel for what's happening. So I did, I took tickets and I
held a spotlight and you know, just kind of hung around

(09:14):
backstage learning a little bit and watching things and had some
great introductions, had a greattour manager who spent time with
me and sat down and just told meeverything that he would be
looking for. I was going to say everything
he'd be looking to for those loading load out moments.
What? He expects from from a from a

(09:37):
trucking company and the level that he would really expect you
to be at. Right, right.
So, yeah. So that was kind of the impetus
for it. Fast forward, that was my
daughter at 14, and I can base everything based on my
children's ages. So it was 14 when we went to the
show. She started volunteering with me

(10:00):
at Cho's. She fell in love with the
industry as well and wound up atBelmont majoring in music
business. And I started my company in
Nashua the same year she startedcollege.
OK. So from that position period,
you said that you was already working for in the, in the
Truckee Logistics company beforehand anyway.

(10:23):
Was there any like did, was there any thought to make, let's
say, your life easier and approach your idea to them
because obviously they had everything already or was you,
did you have that much determination that you was like,
no, I've done this with this company.
They do all the trade shows, they do this.
This is where I belong and this is where I'm going to start it.

(10:44):
Yeah, it's a longer story, but yes, I did approach it with them
and we started to look at it with that company.
The company that I was with based in Boston, was a
franchise. And around the same time, that
franchise lost its relationship with its corporate company.
And so it was almost a forced situation where I had to decide

(11:08):
what was I going to do because that relationship had ended.
So essentially that Boston facility was no longer in
existence. So it was one of those things
that I had to decide what to do and this is what I decided to
do. And so moving to Nashville, did
you I'm going to say lease or buying your first truck?

(11:31):
Was it you know what, like how how did from from going from OK,
I'm moving. This is it.
I'm going to start it on my own.It's going to be all or nothing.
So right, let's let. Did you have any help behind
you? I know you just mentioned like a
tour manager, but did you have like an assistant working with
you at the time? Did you have you got like a
business partner that you know, you both put your heads together

(11:54):
and was like, OK, we're going tostart with one truck.
We're going to start with 10, We're going to start with 100.
I don't, I don't know like where.
No, it's not 100. No, you know, you know what I
mean. Yeah, there were some people
that were supportive and what happened was when that office
closed down, I pilfered some of the staff from there and I

(12:15):
bought some of the equipment. I yeah, I took some of the
equipment that was there and purchased.
It wasn't the best decision I ever made because didn't realize
that really wasn't tour worthy tracking equipment, but I didn't
know what I didn't know. So so I did that took over.

(12:37):
I, I leased a facility in Nashville with warehousing and
office space and hired some people in and started doing, I
just kind of jumped into it honestly.
And where that other office had closed down, I had picked up
some of that work. So I continued to maintain some
clients in the trade show space and in the conference space.
And that was part of what reallykept me going.

(13:00):
The first couple years were a little rough.
And then I think it was 2018 that my oldest son joined the
company and he came on and took over the operations in the
Boston facility and then really helped to support what I was
doing in Nashville. So it freed because of the time.
There was a lot of back and forth.

(13:21):
So it freed me up to really justhone in and focus on what I was
doing in Nashville and not deal as much with what was happening
in New England. What was your inspiration to do
it? Being I think the word control
freak has a bad connotation. It's not I can be that.
No, but I think it had a lot to do with that.

(13:41):
The company that I was in, I wasvery high level.
I had a lot of control over a lot of things, but I didn't have
autonomy. And this was an opportunity to
really do things the way that I wanted to do them in the way
that I felt was right. And in even in coming up with
the name of the company, High Road, I was shocked that nobody

(14:03):
else in trucking had the name, to be honest.
Did a lot of research on it, butit really was one of those
things that I felt like it was agreat representation of what we
do and who we are in terms of, you know, High Road gives you
that, you know, visual of trucking, right, the road.
But then at the same time we take the High Road and that's
been one of our tag lines for a long time, has been take the

(14:24):
High Road. And that we try to really do
things that honors our relationships with our clients
and our relationships with our vendors, our relationships with
our employees, our drivers, you know, kind of everybody on the
team. And we really see everyone as
part of the same team. And that's probably the well,
that is the best way. When you see everybody as one
team, you've got respect for everybody.

(14:46):
You know, whether it's your client, whether it's somebody
that's working for you, it couldbe the cleaner on the buses, you
know, everybody, you know, we are all the same.
Everyone knows that. I say that all the time when I'm
speaking to to people. We are all the same.
And to make it really work as anexcellent team, you have to be
that. You have to be that person.

(15:07):
You know, I can just see, I meanalready just the way you are,
you know, I can see that. Well, it's been a very hard, not
hard, no, yes, it's been a hard transition to 2016.
Having your son come on board helped you.
And then of course, COVID hit. So just as you're starting like

(15:31):
you, you've had these obstacles in in your way and obviously
during COVID, was you able to doanything or was it more based at
home to build and hope that the industry would come back
together? I learned to play a lot of Candy
Crush. I became really good at it
during COVID. I wasn't expecting that answer.

(15:53):
It was, it was really challenging.
I'll be honest, it was really challenging.
We had, we had really fallen into this sort of interesting
space in the industry and a friend of mine had really
encouraged me in that direction.I had a friend who was a drummer
for and we're still good friends.
He's a drummer for contemporary Christian band here in

(16:15):
Tennessee. And he had said, you know what,
box trucks are really rare in touring and a lot of us need
them. And in my first tours were box
trucks and we developed a real reputation in that space.
Before COVID, our first, our first tour was a box truck with

(16:37):
Andre Day. And that's it just sort of
become part of what we were doing.
So we were doing semis, but we were also doing box trucks.
And when all of the touring stopped in 2020, we started
letting go of things. We let go of trucks, we let go
of drivers. The only thing that really

(17:00):
sustained us during that time was we had a lot of retail.
We we picked up retail business because everybody was shopping.
All online. It wasn't it.
It went crazy. Yeah, yeah.
Everybody was shopping. So we picked up with some retail
business that really sustained us during that time and then PPP
got us through. But I was, I, I think I hit some

(17:23):
pretty low lows during COVID where I, you know, my life
hasn't always been easy. And it had been a struggle
getting the company up and running, aside from, you know,
some other personal things that were going on.
And I remember sitting one day in the office and just staring
at the wall and thinking, I don't even know if I can keep

(17:44):
living where I'm living. I don't know if I can keep doing
this. And you know, as a single parent
and had kids at home and, and I was just thinking, I, I don't
know how I'm going to do this. So there were some pretty rough,
rough patches during COVID. And if not for PPP, honestly, we
would not have existed. We wouldn't have gotten through

(18:05):
it. I had a fantastic banker who we
had a great relationship with and was very, very supportive.
Still love him. We have a great relationship.
But then coming out of it, a lotof things changed.
Box trucks went away because when when the touring season
picked back up, we didn't have any equipment.

(18:27):
So when we tried to get it, it was so expensive because the
pricing of trucks went through the roof during COVID, Yeah.
So it really changed the direction of the company.
We stopped doing box trucks completely and.
Even now? Or do you know?
It started back up again. OK.

(18:49):
It's, it's crazy. It's come back.
It's come back hot. So, yeah, so we went, we went to
semis and everybody was touring and everybody wanted to tour.
And we had, we had calls where people were bidding what, what
is it going to take to get a truck?
We can't get a truck. What's it going to take?

(19:09):
And so it was nuts. It was nuts.
So I was good because obviously,Sid, if I speaking to, you know,
many people on here, it did all of a sudden go boom, didn't it?
Like it was a little bit of a slow start.
But even now, I mean, the the tours are going out, you know,
and it seems that they're not really even it's not necessarily

(19:30):
even stopping so much anymore. It's kind of like even there's a
real a nice steady flow. There was used to be like the
the offseason, but there isn't really, you know, it's still
just overflowing into the Christmas period.
I know you've said on my little guest form that you're, you
know, you're, you're busy right up until Christmas, which is
amazing, you know, and then I already know that tours are

(19:53):
different. Tours are going out, you know,
starting of January, going into February already.
And you always had that bigger period.
So have you noticed that things are really getting busier now?
Yeah, they, they aren't as different.
We, we have historically been dead from right after

(20:14):
Thanksgiving through early Marchish, sometimes a little bit
later. Last year we toured straight
through. Our last tour ended two days
after Christmas and that was it was a Christmas tour and our
first tour started the second week of January.

(20:35):
Crazy. Yeah, it is.
I mean, it's good. I mean it's.
It's not very grateful. Very, very grateful for it.
Yeah, very, very grateful because it was always a
challenge getting through those slow periods.
So it's it started earlier, it'sending later.
We're seeing the same thing now.There's a lot of theatrical
tours that are continuing on over the holidays that will just

(20:57):
go straight through into 2026. So it's it does feel a little
steadier, not as. I've never actually asked this
question, I've never really thought about it, but why did we
always have that down down thosedown months?
Why? Why did it ever?
Why did we have the down months and why now?

(21:17):
Has it changed? So like, I, I don't know, but
what some of some of my theories, which I'm probably
completely wrong, I often am, isholidays.
It's very expensive to have holidays.
And then nobody's buying ticketsnecessarily because that's your,
your family events, your companyevents.

(21:39):
You're, you know, you're doing all of that.
You're, you're, you're not goingout and doing shows.
A lot of places. It's just cold.
It's just cold. I don't want to go to shows when
it's cold. But yeah, it's just cold, yeah.
I thought about that. I thought maybe maybe the the
unreal. What's the word?
I can't say the unreal reliability of the roads being

(22:00):
in good conditions. So there's that too.
So the, the weather is a definite issue.
We have had times where we've been stuck in weather.
We've had a driver stuck. Gosh, I feel like it was Wyoming
for a week. He was not on tour, but he was
stuck. He was on the road and and they

(22:22):
shut, they just shut the roads down South.
That's a huge issue. So if you are going to see
tours, like there's some Winter Jam is a Christian tour that
goes out in the winter, but they're doing like southern
states. They're not really going through
the Midwest or where there mightbe weather issues.

(22:43):
Although I will say January of this year, our first tour was
through Canada and it didn't make sense to me.
No, I was baffled. I was like, how so?
I talked to some people and I was like, are are they actually
selling tickets to people? They said yes, because Canada's
so cold. And then when it gets warm,

(23:03):
people don't want to go to shows.
They want to go out, they want to be outside, they want to
enjoy the weather. So they're more likely to go to
shows when it's cold out becausethey're kind of used to the cold
anyway. So our first tour, our first
major tour this year went through Canada.
And the driver. Was absolutely miserable, but.
And the roads, I mean, I've been, I've been to Canada in, in

(23:23):
January and that it was only used just outside Of Montreal at
the time. And the roads were for me being
English. I mean, I was like, how, how are
you all driving in these roads? I would be shut down.
Right. And in the South, if we get a
couple of flurries, we're done. Our day is over.
Lock it up, send the kids home. We're shutting down.

(23:46):
And coming from Boston, I was used to snow.
I hated it, but I was used to it, but there's there's a lot
that could happen when there's weather like that.
You know, Rd. closures, right, That's one thing delaying the
show, but accidents that's a pretty significant.
Have you ever? Had I know thankfully the driver
wasn't on tour, but have you have you ever been in that

(24:08):
situation or even before the thewhen you very first started?
You know, we're doing the corporate and the trade shows.
Have you ever had, you know, a bad experience where the driver
was stuck and it was like, it's out of our control, you know,
it's there's been an accident orwhatever and, and what, what do
you do in those situations? Light Switch is a collective of

(24:32):
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(24:54):
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Yeah, horribly, one of my very first corporate events, I had a

(25:19):
trade show and it I, it was not weather related, but we had a
truck roll over. Yeah, Yeah.
So, OK, driver was fine, driver was fine.
What was in the truck was not fine.
So yeah, yeah. So I mean, and things happen,

(25:42):
right. Luckily we've been, we've been
very blessed. We've never had any major, major
issues on the road. We've had some drivers fall ill
and have some problems, but those are things that we've been
able to resolve. So it's worked out and we've
never had any major weather delays that have prevented a

(26:02):
show from starting or and you know, and the good thing is for
the most part, we're working with professionals.
So the people doing the routing,the people planning, they know,
you know, they anticipate, they know what's happening.
They can look at the routing andsay OK, this is December or
November or there's possibility of weather in February.

(26:24):
We need a little bit more of a stretch of a time to get from
point A to point B. For the most part we've had some
that have not. And you know honestly if we have
something where there's a concern, we not might not make
it. We voiced the concern and we try
to work out solutions with them,whether it's we skip that show
with those trucks and they get AB rig or we double up drivers

(26:48):
or yeah, so we work with them onsolutions and we're pretty
transparent about it. I know we're talking offline,
but one of the things for when Iwas doing the Formula One job
was the logistics for the, the, the TV.
So there was air freight, there was sea freight, there was
jumping over from the this sea freights going around here

(27:08):
because that's going to take twomonths to get there.
And then this one is going to take, you know, like this will
jump over straight away. These these particular devices,
we have to fly them. So they're air freight, but that
costs more money. The carnies, everything that
goes into the carnies, we had batteries that are travelling.
So we had to take all the batteries out of everything, put

(27:28):
them in a separate thing. The logistics of that.
I mean, I look back and I think,wow, like that was pretty like
it intends to try and organise and have every single TV
basically logged within each container going to various
different places. I got in trouble once because

(27:55):
I'd put something all in the in the air freight.
Oh, I think it was sea freight actually.
And then when it got there, they're like, that wasn't on the
carne. And I was like, I forgot to put
like, you know, and it wasn't even, it was quite a big thing.
So it was like quite noticeable.And he was like, it's lucky, you
know, we're, you know, we're F1,so we generally don't get
stopped a lot. But, you know, he laughed at me.

(28:18):
I mean, this was many years ago,by the way, But you know, you
have to log everything and the same as with everything that's
going in into the trucks now. I mean, how does that work for
you going? Obviously you've got the Carnes
in in every single truck. Well, if we're crossing a
border, so we don't always go toCanada, but we do go to Canada.

(28:38):
We have our Canadian authority. We do go over the border and
depending on the artist we're working with, many have done it
many times, very used to it. They know what they're doing.
Some go Carnese. Yep, Temp bonds are very popular
in touring where it's just an inand out Carnese.

(28:59):
It's not as complicated as a carne.
One of the not complications, but one of the more challenging
ways to cross the border is withmerch.
If the tour is selling merch, then there has to be a very
clear inventory down to every pin and sticker going in.
And then they have to declare coming out because they might
have sold merch in Canada. Yeah, and a lot of, honestly, a

(29:23):
lot of our artists, they just dump the merch at the border and
they don't take any to Canada. It's easier.
Wow. Yeah, never the we were
travelling because obviously in Europe it's slightly different
because you are going through, well, OK, most of it's Europe,
but coming back into the UK now really is a nightmare, like
really is a nightmare. Brexit.

(29:43):
Yeah, it was a Brexit. And on the, on the catering
truck, like they had to get rid of everything before they came
over, came over And some of the things it was like that's, you
know, that's just a lot of things were kept, but a lot of
it was like, Nope, you can't take anything through.
And then then you go with the wood.
They were travelling straight through and going into Ireland,

(30:06):
which is Europe. So then you had to get rid of
everything you got in England togo out again.
Really it was like the, the again, the, the logistics of
that and the merch team, they had to be aware of that because
obviously anything going in and out of Europe, But I'm, I was
pretty sure that they had like, you know, a basic another like,

(30:28):
like you said, dump it at the border or, you know, like get,
get it sent out that way, right.We just did 1 tour where the
entire merch truck just stayed behind.
Didn't even go into Canada. We just kept it all in one
track, parked it. And those poor Canadians don't,
they don't get to buy T-shirts, so.
OK, fair enough. OK.

(30:50):
And so going like really what initially got you into trucking?
So when you've, you know, when you left college, school,
whatever, like how did you get into, how did you get into
trucking? So I had always been in sales.
My most of my life, really my most of my life, I've been in
some form of sales and I, I wentinto sales just because I love

(31:13):
talking to people and I loved the flexibility and the ability
to just control your own income.So, and I was at a point in my
life where I needed to make a decision.
I needed to make a change. And this is back when, I don't
know how old you are, but at thetime the Internet was still dial

(31:33):
up. So you type out your resume.
Yeah, you type out your resume and you would mail it in and you
would just wait for the phone toring.
And so I had two opportunities that were that came my way that
were both in sales. And I could have gone in two

(31:55):
different directions. And I chose this one.
Honestly, I can admit now I don't know what I was doing.
I didn't even. I didn't even know what the
company did. Yeah.
So I was hired. I was.
I was young. I was cute.
Couple of guys interviewed me, hired me on the spot.

(32:15):
It was the first business manager for this company in
Boston. It was a nationwide company.
My boss was out of New Jersey. So I showed up the first day on
the job. My boss isn't there.
Somebody else is. He's supposed to be training me.
And he said, I'm in the middle of an emergency, go sit in your
office and read some manuals or something.
So that was what I did all day. And he came out at the end of

(32:38):
the day. And he said, So what questions
do you have? And I said, how many planes do
we have? Yeah.
And he looked at me and he said,what did you just say?
And I said, how many, How many planes do we have?
And he said, why do you think wehave airplanes?
And the company's name had air in the name.

(33:02):
And then the manuals I was given, we went from airport to
airport. So I was learning all the
airport codes. We were based our my office was
outside the airport. So we said, why would you think
we have planes? And I said, there's a picture of
them on the wall with the company name on it.
And he goes, those are corporatejets.

(33:23):
He's come with me and he takes me out on the dock and there's
this big open dock warehouse space with dock doors.
And he said, what do you see? And I said freight.
And he said, what's the freight doing?
And I said, it's getting loaded on those trucks.
He goes, where are the trucks going?
And I said to our planes, I mean, that was, yeah, I'll

(33:45):
probably never live that one down in that company.
They probably still talk about me.
But I think that's brilliant because really, we're all our
airplanes. Are you still blush talking
about it, to be honest, because it was just a totally dumb.
So anyway, so but it worked out.Loved the company, loved the

(34:06):
job. I got into trucking sort of
inadvertently. And yeah, so I was with that
company for a short while and then I was actually hired by one
of my clients and then wound up staying there.
Like I said, it was almost 20 years.
And so you mentioned that your son had joined you.
Is your son still part of your business now?

(34:26):
He is, yes, yes, he's a, he's a bit older than you would expect.
I had him when I was very young and he joined in, I think it was
2018. He, he really surprised me, you
know, as a teenager he was a little wayward and took him a

(34:48):
little while for that, you know,frontal lobe to develop fully.
But he just kills it. He's absolutely amazing.
We're we're incredibly close. We talk every single day and we
are very much in alignment on business and on honestly on a
lot of things. We talk, you know, we talked
already this morning. We have a call in the morning.

(35:10):
We usually talk at least once ortwice more during the day.
He's taken a lot of pressure offand he's taken on a lot of
things. So he's, well, he's is still in
Boston, he still manages that facility.
He's now really working more with the drivers directly.
He's managing the trucks, the repairs, the drivers, all of

(35:33):
that. So he really embraced that side
of it and taken on a lot of thatfrom me, which is fantastic.
I is ready and I love that there's the family connection.
So you feel like you have got not saying that you if you had,
if it was somebody else in that role, you wouldn't feel that
connection, but being that closeto your son to do it is great.

(35:56):
And your daughter, is she you mentioned that she was in the
love the music industry. Is she in the industry or is
she? Did she go somewhere else?
She is, yeah. Yeah.
So, yeah. So my son actually became a
partner. I brought him on as a partner in
2020. And then my daughter, after she
graduated from Belmont, she became a concert promoter.

(36:21):
So she's. Yeah.
So she's still in concert promotion.
She's been doing that. She's going to kill me for not
knowing, I guess like 7 or 8 years now.
Yeah, it's been 7 or 8 years. It's incredible.
And she's based in Nashville, sowe have some.
We really don't have a lot of overlap, but we have a lot of

(36:41):
overlap of understanding of whateach other does.
And a lot of times we'll get quotes or bookings, and I have
no idea who the artist is. So she's the first person I text
and say, do you know who this is?
And she either goes no, or she'slike, Oh my gosh, you know, one
or the other. Yeah.
So when you have someone that approaches you says, OK, I need

(37:07):
X amount of trucks, This is whatwe're, I don't know, this is
what we're going to be carrying.This is what this is where our
gigs are going to be. Do you come up with the whole
the plan, the route, the you, you, you basically give the low
down on everything to the tour manager to the and say, right,
this is what we recommend at this point.

(37:30):
We think you need a double driver at this point.
We need this beneath. We need this is, is that kind of
what you'll do or is there somebody else doing that?
Like what? How does?
How does your day unfold once you get that call?
Yeah. So it varies.
It varies. Most are pretty experienced.
They know what they're doing most when they're running it.

(37:50):
They're pretty sure they know when they're going to need a Co
driver, when they might not. So when they send a quote over,
we put it in the system, We'll run the mileage, we run the
hours. We know the drivers hours of
service. So we make sure that we know how
long it's taking them to get from venue to venue.
We'll add a little extra time ifthey're going through LA, New

(38:10):
York, major cities, crossing borders, that kind of thing.
What we'll go through, we'll runthe mileage and the hours and
then we'll put the pricing together for them.
We do have a program that we offer to newer tours or smaller
tours that if it's A1 Truck Tourand they're not very

(38:31):
experienced, we put an experienced driver on the tour
with them. So we call that tour up and it's
not something we charge extra for, but it's something where
we're kind of investing in them long term and we want that tour
to be successful. So we put it an experienced
driver on the tour with them whoreally helps them get through
the process. Where some of them have never

(38:53):
crossed the Canadian border before, Some of them may have
never dealt with parking in New York City or situations like
that where the driver is really,really helpful and hands on and
will will help or not help as much as they want.
He's there to support them in whatever way they want.
So most tours know what they're doing by the time it gets to us.

(39:17):
That is good. I I've been on a tour before
where OK on paper or on maps it looks like this, but it isn't.
And really, you know, if you, ifyou've that, that come over from
like the states coming over to this side and, and even the like

(39:38):
the drivers and stuff, they weren't necessarily that
helpful. And there's this poor production
production manager, He was getting like after everything
had been set in stone, one person would say, oh, it's going
to take 8 hours and then we needthe brakes and you're not going
to get there till 12:00 in the afternoon.
And then you then another part because that's all they do.

(39:59):
They whisper, they whisper, theytalk and you can never get a
straight answer. And I was like, OK.
So having this tour up is brilliant because you need
somebody that's really going to know, not just say, oh, no, no,
no, that's going to take you this time to get here to get
there. Because all we were all
everybody, anybody, we didn't care if it was 12:00.

(40:21):
We just needed to know, OK, it'sgoing to be 12:00.
And then and then it turns out we were, we were there at 9:00.
So it's like, guys, yeah, come on.
Yeah, you do try to deal in worst case scenarios with some
of those situations you want to prepare them.
But one of the things that we doonce we once we do get a booking

(40:42):
and if somebody asks for it before they book, you know, we'd
probably do it anyway. But generally once someone
commits to a booking, we schedule a call together and we
bring in the lead driver, whether it's one driver or 12
drivers, but the lead, we bring in the lead driver and we have a
team's call. So we go over prior to that
call, the driver has gone through the routing, he's looked

(41:03):
at the venues. If there's venues he's not
familiar with, he'll research them a little bit and we'll
address all of that on our call.So we'll talk about things like
venue parking or he'll say, hey,I've been to this venue before.
This is the challenge getting inthere.
Are we St. loading? Do you need this type of a ramp?

(41:25):
We're picking up merch. Do you need something?
You know, there's a thing calledan attic that you build in a
trailer. Do you need an attic in the
trailer? So we go over all of that in our
pre tour call, everything from pickups to returns, really just
getting all the information. But it also gives the lead
driver in the production managerthat opportunity to start their

(41:46):
relationship several weeks aheadof the tour.
Which is great because same thing, you need that connection.
You can't just, you know, you turn up the first gig and you're
like, oh, hi, you know, I'm so and so, yeah, nice to meet you
and bang. So at least you've got that
connection from from day one. And I mean what I mean, what

(42:06):
would be like a challenge on theroad that most people even
inside or outside of the industry wouldn't expect?
So what would say is like one ofyour biggest challenges that
people are unaware of, but actually, you know, this is one
of our biggest challenges. Yeah, let me think.
I think so. I think it it falls into

(42:28):
different categories. So you could talk about major
catastrophic. So that would fall under the
illness accidents, right, those types of things.
So setting that kind of thing aside, some of the challenges, I
would say I'm very protective ofour drivers.
They're all friends and I treat them like that and they treat me

(42:50):
like that as well. So some of the things are not
being treated well on the road. That's that's a concern and that
has to be addressed. And some of the drivers were
like, well, I'll deal with it. I don't want to make waves.
You know, we had one tour, it was a very short tour, 5 trucks
on the tour and they were treated horribly.

(43:12):
And the lead driver didn't tell me until the end of the tour and
he said I didn't want to make trouble.
It was only three weeks. And every driver at the end of
that called me individually and said I'll never work with them
again. And I said neither will I that's
fine, that's OK. But so how they're treated and,
and drivers are a little different because the bus

(43:34):
drivers are on the bus and they're getting to know
everybody, right? And so they have that
relationship and it's developed because of the proximity.
Truck drivers don't have the proximity that the bus drivers
do. So sometimes they're just a
little bit outside the circle. So pulling them into the circle

(43:55):
get, you know, getting them acclimated, making sure that
they are part of the team, that's really important.
And for truck drivers, one of the biggest challenges.
And again, I love them, but theygossip more than teenage girls.
So news travels really fast and negative things travel really

(44:19):
fast and positive things travel really fast.
So you have to be really cautious about what you're
saying, who you're saying it to,who's aware of it.
Yeah. So it's both a good and a bad,
you know, because I get to hear a lot of things from the road.
You know, they'll call and they'll tell me things that are
going on. And, and sometimes the bus

(44:40):
drivers are the best sources of information because they'll say,
hey, by the way, I heard the production managers leaving this
tour and he mentioned he has another tour coming up in the
fall that's not announced yet. And I'm like, oh, good.
Well, let's let's get to work onthat.
On the other hand, if there's something negative and it's
starting to spread and go aroundor they're not getting along

(45:03):
well, you know, those are definitely.
Felt that for me, I mean, when Iwent, so this year we went back
into the touring and I went intothe back into the catering side
of things. So I went back into the catering
and I was doing the dressing rooms and I always, I always
feel that truck drivers and bus drivers are always sometimes

(45:24):
treated a little bit differentlythe, the bus driver that you're
on. So it could be so everyone's
friendly with their bus driver because obviously they're,
that's their friends. The other bus drivers, the
people on that say bus number 1 don't know who bus number 2 is
or bus number 3 is, or bus number 4.

(45:44):
So often they're kind of like left out depending on the tour.
And I've, I've, you know, I've done a few now I'll talk to the
bus drivers and the truck drivers and I'll be like, oh,
where are you staying tonight? I know they stay on their buses
or in their trucks. That's, you know, that's, that's
what they do. So I've got, that's not, you
know, I don't expect everyone tothen to come into the hotels
with us and, and be that team, but that sometimes they're like,

(46:07):
we got put like miles out the way, like miles out the way for
whatever reason. You know, it could be budget, it
could be anything. And one particular tour, you
know, they were like, but we know where we can stay for
cheaper for this, for that. And then they do start doing,
you know, a bit of this, a bit of that, you know, and it's kind
of feels like moaning like, you know, in my eyes.

(46:30):
But then at the same time, they're just trying to like, I
don't, I don't know, voice theiropinion that we don't feel like
we're being welcomed right now. And I will always, always, you
know, the first thing we had like a little like catering team
meeting. I said, guys, the first thing I
want us to do, not only look after all the tour, but really,

(46:51):
let's make sure truck drivers, bus drivers are really treated
really well because not that we're going to treat anybody any
differently, but I've been on a tour as well before when some of
the catering have gone, oh, you know, the bus drivers, they're
the first ones in. Yeah, Because that's the time
that suits them, because they'regoing to go to bed in a minute

(47:12):
because they're going to drive us all the way through the night
and they've got this like horrible feeling towards them
or, I don't know, whatever it is.
I sometimes we had to make sandwiches.
Make them with love. Make them with love.
Don't just go, you know. Right.
Because, see, they've been sitting in a truck and as as

(47:34):
much as they are alone, they tend to be very social people.
Yeah, they are. And when they're in the truck,
they're talking all the time. They're calling friends, they're
calling each other, they're having conversations.
So when they get there, they want to be part of the team.
They want to be engaged. Most of them, you know, there's
some people that don't, but mostof them, they want to feel like

(47:55):
they're part of the group. And we've had tours where they
have told the drivers you're notwelcome in catering.
You get per diem, you don't needto be in catering.
Yeah. Or, you know, or there's some
tours, if they're very large, they give out tickets for
catering just fine. But when they're giving them

(48:15):
out, the drivers are sleeping. So then they're chasing down how
do I get a ticket when I'm awake, you know, so they're so.
Yeah. So there's and then it.
Becomes like A and then they come into when they're, when
they're, when they're trying to find the tickets, the production
manager or whatever is really stressed at this point.
So then they become like a burden, but they're not just

(48:37):
because they haven't thought about the, you know, it's the
same as any job. I I've always believed in my
life that you, I've always started like at the bottom and
worked my way up because I want to know how everybody is working
and know how everybody's feeling.
Very important. OK, I'm, I'm not going to go and
be a truck driver, but I also asked them like I do ask, OK, so

(49:00):
you know what, what is it? What's your, what does your day
look like? You know, and they'll be like,
OK, well, when soon as we get, you don't see this part.
But as soon as we arrive, we load in, we load out, we then go
clean the trucks. So then they're cleaning them.
So they make them all like shinyand all the rest of it because
it's a professional. They don't go in there looking
disgusting, so they don't want. To drive dirty, they don't want

(49:23):
it to look unprofessional. They really take pride in in
their equipment. I've never seen a dirty truck, a
dirty bus at any one of my toursbecause that's what.
But we don't see them doing thatbecause we're busy.
We're in, we're in the venue at this point, we're busy.
But then what you will see obviously is say, once they've
done all that, they've come backand there's SAT around or

(49:46):
whatever, or they're the first ones in catering and they're
like, cool, you know, you're thefirst ones in Kate.
No, that's their time. That's their rest time.
They're also then going to go back to the bus, They're going
to sleep. I mean, when I was doing all the
buses, all the bus stock, the, the guys would be like, OK, if
you get everything ready before 5:00, we'll be able to help you.
And I was like, OK, that sounds fair.

(50:07):
I said. But if not after five, we're all
asleep. He goes, there's the master key.
Let yourself in. But again, can you be respectful
and don't go in and go boom, boom, boom.
Of course I will. Do you know?
Oh well, we don't. Sleep on the We don't sleep on
the buses. The drivers do sleep in their
own trucks. Or, you know, they get a hotel.
Yeah, like buses and the truck drivers, but a lot of the truck

(50:30):
drivers, they are actually. I'll tell you what, the last
tour I just did there was probably about, I think maybe
even 10 of them. They also volunteered or not
volunteered. They obviously got paid extra,
but to do the spots. So they did the squat likes for
the show. Well, I think this is brilliant
because really they come in, they have lunch and they're

(50:52):
like, we're not going to come for dinner, Sarah, you know, so
you won't see us. We'll save them a box up because
they'll sleep right the way through to the show, go do the
spots and of course then they'vegot load out.
Well, that group of people that did it all the, the truck
drivers that did this, well, they were loved by everybody
because of course, they really were part of the show.

(51:12):
That's yeah. And I thought that's really
good, you know, because they really wanted to be part of the
crew more so. So I loved that.
I loved that they were being, oh, I just licked my pen lid.
They were being like, you know, included in it.
And there's one thing I always, I do always talk about and that
is mental health. And I certainly saw a lot of

(51:36):
different emotions going througheven with the the truck drivers
and also the bus drivers, because it must be so intense.
And again, people don't realize is there like I know you work
with Echo live, but is there like AI know a truck driver
helpline that you have, you know, someone's having a tough

(51:59):
day and you know, they can just call and say my.
Cell number. Yeah, your cell number, yeah.
It's my cell number. Yeah, you know, and, and, and
truly it is my cell number and, and my son's as well.
All the drivers have our cell numbers and they know that if
they need us, we're there and they can call if there's an

(52:24):
emergency during the night. It depends on the level of
emergency whether or not they call.
They're all equipped to handle and flat tires and you know,
things like that. And they're all empowered to
handle it how it needs to be handled, whether it's a roadside
service or a repair or whatnot. So they don't disturb us for
those things. It's usually a report in the
morning. By the way, this happened last

(52:45):
night. And here's how we're dealing
with it. But we've had some, you know, I,
we had one tour that was particularly challenging.
And the lead driver called me at5:00 AM in tears.
And and we just. Yeah, that's that's good though.
That's. Good.
And we just talked and he cried and I cried and we, you know,

(53:07):
and I listened and you know, andwe got through it.
And there's been some tragedies that have happened on the road.
But so for those sort of things,we we do have a lot of respect
for them and we treat them as humans and as individuals.
And not everybody has the same needs.

(53:29):
Time off. We're very flexible.
If somebody calls on their own tour and they're having a tough
time or a family member is sick or something, they need to get
home, they'll go home. I would never ask anybody to
stay on the road. If they feel that they need to
be somewhere else, they're goingto go and we'll deal with it.
We'll deal with it. That's a great attitude because

(53:52):
if everybody that works for you knows this, they're going to
feel cared for, they're going tofeel loved and like this
particular driver, you're calling you up at 5, AMI said.
That was brilliant because that is he didn't deal with it on his
own. He called you like and you was
there. So that's brilliant, The.
Funny part of that story is I was on vacation and I never told

(54:15):
him I went on vacation because Ididn't want him to think he
couldn't call. He still doesn't know to this
day, so I'm not telling him about this podcast.
Yeah, but that again, that just makes you a great human to not
say it to, you know, so then anybody can call you at any at

(54:35):
any point. And the fact that you've you've
still never told him, you know, like that.
I it's that that's that's a really, really nice quality in
being you. And I don't say this to lift
myself up in any way. I say it more as an example for,
you know, they're, they're greatpeople.
They really are. And I, I, there's very few

(54:59):
people in the world that I thinkare truly horrible,
intentionally unkind or intentionally horrible.
We're all just different and different personalities.
And my personality doesn't always jive with everybody.
I know that, and that's OK. But at the end of the day, they
just deserve to be treated respectfully, just like I do, no

(55:22):
different. And you know, and that goes to,
you know, that goes to my drivers, that goes to the people
who do the billing, that goes tothe controller, my admin, you
know, anybody whose work our vendors, our clients.
It's just, there's no reason notto play nice in the sandbox or
just isn't. And if you're not happy, go find
another sandbox to play in. It's that simple.

(55:45):
And I think for people, I mean, I remember when it was my first
tour in over in America and it'svery different from Europe.
You know, everything about it. The trucks are massive.
The like everything is just bigger.
And I remember there was one, I can still see him now, one truck
driver that came into catering and he was really rude.

(56:07):
I mean really, really rude to myself and another lady.
And he walked away and he another one of the tour crew
members came up and they were like, well, that wasn't that
really wasn't good. Anyway, this particular person
told the tour manager, the manager came and all the rest of
it. And I was like, don't want to
make a big thing about this because I don't.

(56:29):
And anyway, I approached this truck drive and I said, I just
want to say that was, you know, this is the next time when he
came in and I just asked, I said, is everything OK with you?
And he was like kind of rude still was like, you know, like
kind of who are you? I said, I don't think you
realize, but like we're on tour with you for the whole way.

(56:50):
And he was like, oh, you're not local catering.
And I said, no, I said, but not that it should make a difference
whether I'm local or tour because it shouldn't.
I said but we are actually on tour all together and he
changed. He thought about it anyway
afterwards it turned out that hedid.
He had some family issues going on.

(57:10):
Not that again, it's not an excuse right?
Because it's not but the whole thing.
But he changed like really? And he said sorry to both of us
and my friend and bloody blah. But you, you never know what
people are have got going on, you know.
Not that I'm excusing him for being rude because that was bad,

(57:31):
but. I mean, let's be honest, some
people are just jerks. All right, let's find out first.
Is there something going on or are you just kind of a jerk?
Like let's. And if you're a Jack, I'm really
not going to be nice to you for the whole talk.
We'll just, yeah, like I said, go play in a different sandbox.
Hopefully she doesn't spit in your sandwich.

(57:51):
We'll see. Never done that, but I mean we,
you know. It's not, it's not a perfect
situation. And you know, but like I said,
for the most part, we've had bigger tours.
I'll fly into rehearsals, We'll have a drivers meeting.
We had one. We were at Lititz.
Yeah, rehearsals were at Rock Lititz.

(58:13):
I flew in, I took all the drivers out the night before.
We went out for barbecue and hung out and I got because I
don't always know all the drivers.
I know my drivers. But then we contract in like
every company does bring in contractors.
So our drivers are lead, we bring in other people.
So we all went out the night before we went out for BBQ, went

(58:35):
to, you know, had rehearsals andone of the drivers and I could
just, I could see it during the drivers meeting, I could see
there was going to be a problem.And so the lead driver and I
talked about it and I said he's,you know, I, I just, I think

(58:56):
there's going to be an issue here from some of the things
he's saying. And I flew home within a couple
of days during rehearsal, still in a couple of days, lead driver
called me and he said, hey, he'sbeing unkind.
He's saying some things about other people, the band, the this

(59:20):
other driver, you know, he's kind of saying it to be funny,
but it's not funny. And he's he's being unkind.
And I said, OK, he's done. Like we don't.
He was already like we had already laid it out during the
drivers meeting. Like here's the rules.
I'm super laid back about a lot of things.

(59:40):
But here's what I'm not laid back about.
I'm very strict about, you know,being kind to each other or you
don't make fun of each other. You don't say negative things
about each other. You know you, you don't talk.
To those people that wants to laugh on somebody else's
expense, I hate that. I hate that.
And it and it was addressed. I saw it, I knew it was

(01:00:01):
happening. I knew it was going to continue
happening. He had been spoken to once, so
it was OK. We're not even starting tour
with this guy. We're just not it's, it's
already there and he's making people uncomfortable.
So, yeah, you know, it's, they're hard decisions to make,
but it's for the betterment of the other 11 drivers that are on

(01:00:22):
the tour and the company's reputation and but.
That's also really good of the lead driver to actually really
notice it after you'd gone to keep an eye on it and not
continue with the tour, Unlike obviously the one that you
saying where you know, that you'd had, you know, a, a bad
tour and that you wasn't told about it until the end.

(01:00:43):
It was only three weeks. So we just, you know, we just
dealt with it because again, nobody should deal with it for
any amount of time. You know, whether that's the
management being horrible to truck drivers, whether it's
someone else, whether it's within your team, like that can
really break people. No matter how long you've got to
to to survive it, you know, it can really break people.

(01:01:04):
And that's the dangerous point. But I suppose with this being
the leading ladies podcast, how many ladies do you have driving?
All right. So I don't have any that drive
for High Road. However, we do have a

(01:01:25):
relationship with another trucking company in Canada and
they have a fair amount of females.
So we do have a lot of women that are out on the tours.
And honestly, to me, and I've had this conversation with many
people over the years about being a female in this industry

(01:01:45):
or what's it like being a femaleowning a trucking company.
And my answer is I've never beenanything different.
So I I don't really think I could even answer that because
to me, I know there's problems and I know there's women that
have been treated disrespectfully for their gender
or, you know, whatever. And have there been times over

(01:02:07):
my lifetime that I felt like little lady ish?
Sure. Have there been times that I'm
OK with it? Absolutely.
Yeah. Let my husband deal with that.
I don't want to. I'm OK with it.
But for the most part, I always have felt like I've been treated
respectfully as a female. As a female.
I don't think it's ever affectedmy business relationship, my

(01:02:30):
working relationship or anythinglike that.
I think maybe just the opposite,that there's almost more of a
respectful relationship with thepeople because I'm a female.
Several of the drivers call me Mama Bear, and again, I'm OK

(01:02:51):
with it. Yeah.
Exactly why not? Yeah, they come to me with their
problems. They know I'm going to be
empathetic and that is inherently a female trait.
The nurturing piece of it I justwant.
And, you know, and some of it ispersonality, but I just want
them to feel good, to feel appreciated, to be happy, to

(01:03:12):
enjoy what they're doing, to have a good time, to provide a
good living for their families. And, and I think because I'm a
female, a lot of times they feelthat they can tell me some of
their issues, their struggles, send me pictures of their
grandchildren or their children and where if I were a male, I
might not be on the receiving end of that.

(01:03:34):
No, I agree. And there's something that we
should also be proud of that, you know, that people feel
confident to come to a a woman, a lady or whatever, you know,
like that do feel confident to come because, you know, like
nature says that, you know, that's, that's that's who we
are. You know, where your your Mama
bear, like, you know, or, or youcould say, oh, I'm going to go

(01:03:57):
see dad now. You can, yeah.
You can also go see Dad, but he's.
Going to tell you some rub, rub some dirt in it, suck it up and
be a man and that's OK. It's OK.
That's OK. Yeah, I mean it's just it's a
different, you know, it's no different for going to see
different people for different things.
And I just feel like being a female it the one thing I will

(01:04:19):
say, I never feel like I have toprove myself or be something
different. I don't feel the need.
So I I'll the little asterisk here on this is I don't feel the
need to curse to fit in and to drop F bombs.

(01:04:39):
And I the little asterisk says Isure do.
When I get mad, I get a little bit of a potty mouth and I try
not to like it's a problem. I tell myself, don't swear,
don't say it, don't say anythinglike and I do anyway.
But but I don't feel the need tochange who I am to fit in or to
try to make other people feel more comfortable about me being

(01:05:03):
there. And one thing that's always kind
of a funny, it's almost a pet peeve of mine is when people
will say, Oh my gosh, you want atrucking company?
You're so bad ass. I'm like, I'm really not that
badass. I'm, I'm just doing my thing.
Like it just so happens it's trucking, whether it's trucking
or ice cream or you know what? What could I do that would make

(01:05:27):
me not badass? Would you say that about me if I
drove an ice cream truck? Like it's just to me.
It's not badass. No, that's badass.
Nobody's going to say that, right?
You teach ballet, badass of you.No, it isn't.
It's not badass of me to own a trucking company either.
It's right, it's. Just have you had any like

(01:05:47):
female mentors over over your career that really shapes the
journey for you or someone that you've met now is there is
there? You mentioned actually you've
got two friends. I don't know if they they could
be male, they could be male as well.
But you have two friends that you meet, you know, once or
twice a month which that again having that, which is so hard

(01:06:12):
when you're working hard. I've got friends here that I
don't even see and we live so close and we've said now once a
month we have to stop to see each other.
I'm not saying they're my role models.
Don't listen if you are. Yeah, I do have, I do have some

(01:06:32):
close friends. I have some close friends in the
industry and I have some outsidethe industry.
There's, there's so I had mentioned I have a couple of
friends that I'm particularly close to.
We don't talk as much as I'd like to.
I do talk to the female more than the male and it has more to

(01:06:55):
do with just our roles and our you know, she's in the industry,
she's a little bit more like me,has some flexibility.
You know, he's a high profile tour manager and he does not
have the same hours and flexibility that we do.
But they're the people that I can say almost anything to and

(01:07:15):
share frustrations with and theyunderstand it on a deep level.
I will say I also have that in my husband and in my son.
My son understands not my husband does as well.
They both understand my, my son being in the industry gets a

(01:07:38):
little bit more of it and, you know, the actual piece of it.
But my husband, who is not in the industry at all, has really,
yeah, he's completely so removedfrom the industry, but he's such
a kind and empathetic person andso understanding and so engaged
and interested in what I do that.

(01:08:02):
Yeah, I mean, he'll come. He'll come with me.
He'll travel with me when he when he can, when he has the
flexibility. But if there's a local rehearsal
or a local load in or something,he's right there bringing pizza
for the drivers. He knows their names.
He knows what's going on. He's, he's, he's actually, he's

(01:08:23):
a pediatrician. And so when some of the drivers
have medical issues, they're sending me pictures to show him.
Can you ask Andy what this meansor what's going on with this?
And, and he's very, very gracious about helping them with
those things. And so, yeah, so he's not in the
industry, but he. Yeah.

(01:08:44):
And he sees what I deal with andhe understands.
And he's very, you know, so I, Ithink I'm very blessed to have a
lot of people who support me in that way.
And even if they're in it or they're not in it, you know, I
have some friends who are business owners that are in a
totally different realm, but they understand the pressures
that you can face. And so, yeah, that's one of the

(01:09:07):
things I'll I will say. And, and you mentioned Echo
Live, one of the things that I really am passionate about in,
in the industry and just in lifein general, It's so important to
have connections and to have those people that you and you
may not have that one person that you can trust with
absolutely everything. I, you know, my best friend's

(01:09:30):
amazing. She loves me.
She's the first person to say, oh, you killed a body.
Let me go get the shovel. That's not always the best
thing, though. It's not always the most helpful
in the situation. Sometimes I want her to go.
What did you do? So, but you have those people
that always have your back that will always listen.

(01:09:51):
It's so important to have those connections.
And that's one of the that's oneof the components of Echo Live
that we really stress. It is a mental health thing.
And it may not sound like it, but people think mental health
and they think therapy, counselling, working on
yourself, but having relationships and friendships is

(01:10:11):
very, very important to your mental health and having
outlets, whether it's you know, you don't necessarily people
always say what are your hobbies?
And I'd always say work. I don't understand the question.
My hobbies are work, but it's because I love what I do.
I'm happy with that. So, but if you have that outlet

(01:10:33):
where you're, you love kayaking and you go out and do that, or
you love to go listen to live music or line dance or movies or
reading books or working out or whatever that may be.
Find your people, find your tribe, find people to experience
things with. And even if you're not talking
about, oh, things are so horrible or whatever, you have

(01:10:56):
their presence that they're there, you're connected, you
feel loved, you feel cared for. It's really, really important.
Let's say an open, an open podcast with me, with myself
basically about mental health, about everything.
Because it's very easy for me tosit here literally since before
COVID, having been on tour and go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

(01:11:19):
blah. Yes, you should do this.
Yes, you should do that. There's this, there's that.
But. Actually being on tour, it
changed my whole my whole perspective again.
So having connections like Echo Live, having them on your
Facebook scroll, seeing their posts pop up, I need to speak to

(01:11:41):
Cara because they don't pop up as much as they should in my
eyes. Not really.
And that just brought to mind actually, because things that do
is, you know, when, when things pop up, you're like, oh, yeah,
I'm, I'm, I'm not alone or whatever.
Or it's directing at the people that are not aware of mental

(01:12:03):
health and issues that people can be going through.
So I actually sometimes I think it's we're approaching the wrong
people. So we're approaching the people
that are coming to echo live andgoing, oh, wow, like me, this is
amazing. I'm going to follow you.
I'm going to this. But actually they we should try
and be approaching the people that are so stern that actually

(01:12:25):
you need to like release a little bit more and be aware of
your behaviour. Like sometimes it can be their
behaviour that has triggered somebody into a sad moment.
And the other person really, they didn't realize they said
something horrible. Like let's take the driver that
you didn't let go forward. Maybe he was unaware of his

(01:12:48):
actions by these Diggy comments actually hurt people.
Now the person that gets hurt isthe one that goes to echo live
or the one that looks up and goes have I got a problem
because my emotions are up and down right now.
But actually the trigger was this person.
So now my. I'd love to say, I'd love to say
he was unaware about boy, was heaware.

(01:13:10):
OK, I completely agree with you.And so Echo alive, we've been on
the forefront of mental health for 12 years, more than 12
years, right. So we were, you know, we were in
mental health before people really thought about mental
health. But we've really just come full
circle and we're we're looking at the whole person.
And so a year and a half ago, a little bit more than that, we

(01:13:31):
started a new program called DayOff.
Yeah, I love this. I love this.
It's in. Nashville, it is in Nashville,
but we're hoping enough people tour through Nashville that it
makes a a difference. And you know everybody in the
touring industry, but you just had on Ave.
What's that? You just had one?
Was it on the 12th or something?We did, yeah.

(01:13:51):
We just had, yeah, we just had one.
So we do it every month and we target the second Monday of the
month so that there's consistency.
It is generally a day off for people if they're in Nashville.
But we we do all kinds of socialactivities together.
And I mean everything, everything you can think of.
It was really boring. If I had some friends in the

(01:14:13):
industry and we would get together when we were all in
town and we would go do just whatever.
I was like, I don't want to go meet for happy hour.
I don't necessarily want to go drink and I don't really want to
take time away at home away fromhome in the evenings either.
But you know, I'm definitely, I'm not interested in sitting at
a bar all night. So we would go do other things.
We'd go kayaking, we went to thezoo, we went and walked the

(01:14:36):
cemetery one day because it was one we had never been in and we
were just curious about the history of the whatever.
So we just would do random things.
And so I was like, wouldn't thisbe fun if we did this as an
industry? And so we started day off
through Echo Live. Chris Lyle, the founder, was
very enthusiastic and supportive.
And we've done so. We now have an event committee

(01:15:00):
that plans this monthly and we, you know, look for different
opportunities and it may not every month, may not speak to
everyone, but we're hoping that there's something that will, you
know, spark your interest and you'll want to come.
So we've done goat yoga, we havedone cornhole tournaments, we've
gone and served the homeless together hayaking.

(01:15:23):
We went to a comedy night, went to a baseball game.
We have an ice cream social coming up in September.
So there's always something unique and different.
We'll do a tour. We did a tour of a production
studio. We try to keep the cost as low
as possible. It's either free or we keep it
around $10. We try to get sponsors to come

(01:15:44):
in and offset the cost, but it'san opportunity.
And one thing I will say is somepeople wind up, you know, either
they commit and they don't go ready to go and they're like,
oh, it's going to be, I don't know anybody.
I have never gone to a day off and not met somebody I didn't
know before. Excuse me, I have never gone to

(01:16:12):
a day off and met someone I didn't know before.
The day we went kayaking, there was only four of us and I didn't
know three of them. So there's always an opportunity
that there's going to be new people.
And so for someone to not come because they think I don't know
anybody, This has been going on a while.
I'm uncomfortable going to this alone.

(01:16:34):
I go alone all the time and there's always people I don't
know and, and that's OK. And you'll meet people.
Yeah, of course it is connections.
Yeah, I, I, I just, I love that.I love the day off.
I'm a huge supporter of Echo Life.
I have been since it was touringcareer workshop.
Yes. Like really, it's something that

(01:16:57):
it's needed. It's needed to be part of the
industry. Yeah, the more that every second
two second Monday you do this, the more people are going to
know about it, you know, and I didn't know it was, I knew it
was once a month, but I didn't know that was I, I didn't know
that that was the, you know, theplan.

(01:17:17):
Which, right, Not every event can happen on that date, but we
shoot for that. That's the goal.
Yeah, and that really is having people know, like, who have I
just had on? Oh, it's a lovely night.
Rachel Bronstein. So she came on last week.
She's. Amazing.

(01:17:39):
Rachel's one of my people. Is she?
She. Is my Yeah.
She's one of the tribe, yeah. Really and everything that she
does and you know, we spoke about all of this as well.
You know how financial aid can be in that same category as
well. But she, you know, she was
talking about Echo Live and yeah, really I was like, yeah,

(01:18:02):
you're, you're, you're great. And the more people that we're
aware of that are out there, I always believe is a is a really
good thing, you know, So even medoing this, the, the leading
ladies, I have met some incredible people, including
yourself, including Rachel Cara.And I'm so honoured to be sat
here talking to you about your career, where you've gone and

(01:18:25):
difficulties that you've faced. Yeah, super lucky because that
actually makes me a better person hearing these things as
well. So I hope people that listen to
the podcast get the same feeling, you know, that's that's
why, that's why I do it, you know, just to make people more
aware of jobs in the industry, problems, all of these things.

(01:18:47):
So, Rachel. And Rachel's been such a
blessing to Echo Live. She joins the board this year.
She does fantastic work with herown company, Lifesjam, but she's
brought that financial part intoEcho Live and really opened a
lot of eyes of how important finances are to your mental

(01:19:09):
health because what's the numberone thing everybody worries
about? Money.
Number one. Right.
It's money, it's relationships. It's yeah, So but money is
really high up there, especiallyfor people who tour with
inconsistent incomes. So she's done a great job of
that. And she's really brought that to
Echo Live and opened up that communication with us and really

(01:19:30):
started to dive into that more where we recognize that finances
are a big part of mental health.So like I said, when we talk
about mental health, we're not just talking about therapy,
counseling. No, it's, I think that's an
important part of mental health,but it's not the only part of
mental health. No, I mean it's it's huge like

(01:19:53):
it like mental health side of things like like bringing on,
you know, Rachel, the last week,you know, actually a finance.
That's a huge thing. You know, that's a huge part of
how it can affect your day-to-day life.
How can it affect everything? And you know, even for yourself
now being really what? OK touring.

(01:20:13):
F1, all of it, we call it a maledominated environment, which is
slowly changing, but the percentage is still, you know,
it's still male dominated for mein my eyes, you with the truck
in that really is male dominated.
You know that that's really that's a male dominated world.
When I asked you like how many lady drivers do you have?
Like, I've probably only met, I would say less than half a dozen

(01:20:39):
in my whole touring career here and F1, that there was a lady
driver. Really, there's been there.
There was very, very few. So I suppose my if we've got
anything else as well. But one of my last questions
would be what advice would you have for young women looking to

(01:21:01):
break into the industry, the logistics world of trucking and
also touring? What advice would you give them?
Do it. I mean, it's it's not Yeah.
Just like there's no reason not to, right?
Like just just do follow your passion.
I think, you know, there are more women drivers in the
industry now than before, But with that, I it's not for

(01:21:26):
everybody. It's not something that's cut
out for everybody. And, and like I said, with, with
the drivers, right, drivers, drivers can be very social.
Women tend to be very social. So it's a very isolating job to
be in a truck by yourself and you're, you're generally long
periods of time. I mean, you'll drive 10 hours a

(01:21:47):
day and then you're sleeping 10 hours a day, so or whatever, you
know, whatever they're sleeping.So it can be very lonely and
very isolating. Yeah, but that's not necessarily
for somebody who's more social. There's parts of touring that
some people love. I could never imagine sleeping

(01:22:08):
in a bus. I couldn't do it.
I just couldn't. I love that part.
Yeah, no, I couldn't be with that many people in that much of
A confined space for that. I'm I'm social, but when I need
my downtime, I need my downtime and I don't want anyway.
What about, Yeah, I just need itto be quiet.
And yeah, I couldn't do it. But I will say, if you have a

(01:22:32):
passion for first of all, for one thing in particular, if you
love figuring out how things work, go figure out how things
work, whether that's audio or visual or you know, you're on
the production side. If you're musical at all and you
don't want to be an artist, go be a guitar tack.
Figure that piece out. There's a lot of non touring

(01:22:56):
jobs. My daughter is a huge music fan.
Huge. And when she first started, it
was funny. When she first started gaining
interest in the industry, she was like, I think I want to go
on tour and she quickly was like, I never want to go on
tour. And you know, and she's, she's a
concert promoter. So there's so many different,
there's business. If you're, if you're into

(01:23:17):
numbers, there's, you can be a business manager.
There's so many parts of the industry that I think people
just aren't aware of, you know, and for logistics, if you are
very logistics minded, that'd begreat.
Come, come do some quotes. Do routing help figure out how
how the trucks get from point A to point B?

(01:23:39):
You can be a mechanic if you like fixing trucks.
There's there's just so many things that support.
If you think about a concert andpeople go and they enjoy and
they like the music and then youknow they feel good and they go
home. But if you stop for a minute at
a concert and you look around and you really think about what
it took catering. People that don't know still.

(01:24:03):
Right. So that's what I mean, if you
don't know, I think, I think anybody in any position could go
to a concert and look around andfigure out what they could do to
work in the live music industry.I don't.
Think. Let's play that game at some
point. Like what I was just going to

(01:24:23):
say that would not work. Maybe a Formula One driver, but
he could drive a truck so. A lot of times, and I mean,
you'll, you'll probably know this as well, like you're not
allowed to do post things on socials because it's all very
secretive. It's all like everything about
it. So maybe that's kind of one

(01:24:46):
thing why people are unaware of what goes on behind the scenes
because you're not allowed to take a photo from backstage or,
you know, like those thousands of people come into an arena,
they sit down, it's all done. Everybody's calm.
Everybody's they don't realize that where they walked in,

(01:25:09):
they've had trucks turning back and forth, the odd time lapse
video that's gone, gone around. But you know, how many people
are going to see that I'm, you know, but really for me, maybe
if it wasn't so I understand thesecretiveness of it because you
don't want to spoil the whole mystery, the mystery of

(01:25:32):
everything. But how many people are really
looking at it and going, how didthey put that light up there?
I bet they just think that stageis there the whole time and the
band just rock up and go and leave.
They don't realise. I mean the amount of people that
I've told them that we just toured and there was 20 trucks
and there was 8 buses. What?

(01:25:56):
Even even being in the industry,sometimes I meet people and I'm
like, what do you do? That's a thing.
Oh my gosh, you know, I spent went to the conference at Lititz
two years ago, I think, and I gave somebody a ride to the
airport. We drove from Lititz back to
Philly and we talked and I was like, So what do you do in the
industry? So he's the one who goes and

(01:26:16):
like lays out the, the stadium before the tour and literally
lays it out. And I was like, that's a thing.
Oh my gosh, how did you get intothat?
That's amazing safety people whofollow the weather to make sure
what's going on. It's like there's that's, you
know, it's funny. We do this thing High Road has a

(01:26:39):
on our Instagram, High Road USA.We do this thing called
frequently asked Fridays where we take questions that
somebody's asked outside the industry.
What do you want to know about live music or entertainment or
the industry? And so some of the questions are
pretty interesting, but that just made me think of it.

(01:27:00):
That would be such a fun thing to do, to go to a concert and
say to somebody, OK, let's figure out what you could do
here for a living. What do you do?
You're an accountant, great. You could be a business manager.
You could be a tour accountant. You, you're a Baker, great.
You could go on. You could be a you could be on
the catering team. You could do this, do that.
I mean, there's really, whether you travel, you tour or not, you

(01:27:24):
support in an office, there's somany jobs out there that people
can do. We're actually we're organizing.
So you say, are you going to go to the conference at Lititz this
year? Yes, I've been every year since
started. Yeah.
OK. So we're going to be at LDI this
year, which I think is like a couple of days before and we're

(01:27:47):
organizing in the daytime. I say where it's going to be my
I'm I'm the secret one, but it'sMarcel the boss, like the the
the names on the it's obviously LDI doing this X live, which is
panels. And we're going to be talking
about road to success is one of them.
And it is aimed at the younger generation coming in to the

(01:28:09):
industry to ask, you know, the questions and all the rest of
it. And we've also got Jake Berry.
He's also organising it. So it's it's kind of a big thing
right now. And then in the evening and
we've got something called Dining with Dinosaurs and it's
going to be, I think at the moment we've got like 20
dinosaurs. But it's we've got, I top up

(01:28:30):
first name Roy Bickle. He's the legendary rigger.
We had him on the podcast the other week.
He's amazing. I've been doing so much work
with him. He's going to be on the panel.
We've got some Carol Dodds is coming on.
We've got so many incredible andwe're calling them dinosaurs,
but like they're the legends that have started our industry.

(01:28:54):
And the same thing we're going to be talking about how they got
into the industry, but also giving the guidance to kids
coming into the industry. But what I would love to do is
how do you reach the school kids?
How do we reach these people? Well, so we live in Nashville,
so this is a very music focused area.

(01:29:16):
And so I will say for our local county, we have music business
programs that are not focused onbeing an artist.
And a lot of these kids, their parents are artists or the
parents are touring or the parents are in the industry,
right. But we have that in this area
where it's a music business. One thing, so you mentioned
touring, career workshop, Echo Live, our workshop is coming up

(01:29:39):
in November and we're in the process of working out our
sessions. But one session that we've been
thinking about, everybody talks about the young people coming
into the industry and how can weraise that up.
But there's so many of us that this was not, we didn't get into
this as children. We came into it later in life.

(01:30:00):
I came into it after 40, Rachel came into it after 40, a good
friend who's a tour manager cameinto it after 40.
So it's OK for it to be a late in life career too.
One, 100%. A lot of people don't think
about that, but if you could. Get into it sooner.
I mean, OK, here in Crete, for one, really nobody's heard of

(01:30:23):
the jobs even that I do that I've done before from Formula
One to this, really. And everyone's like, you've just
gone and done what? Like they're just shocked at the
moment. I've got a little.
And he's very intelligent. He's you know, he's, he's not
that you have to be intelligent.That's the wrong word.
His confidence is amazing. That's the word.

(01:30:44):
He's an 11 year old boy. He's English.
He's just spot on already. He's he's, he's Greek and he's
like, how do I get into this? I said, what do you think you're
interested in? He's like, well, I love and he
mentioned accounting side of things.
I said, OK, he said, but anyway,I said the the array of jobs

(01:31:05):
that you can do is unbelievable.You want to be a chef, study
hard now work, work, work with he owns a taverna.
Learn everything from your dad, learn everything from your mom
who's doing the front of house kind of stuff.
You've got a basis for that. You want to do lighting.
There's a stadium here when you're older, go to the stadium.

(01:31:26):
If I'd been, if I'd been told that you could go push boxes in
a in a stadium or the theatre nearby me when I was growing up
outside of London, never knew that this job existed.
I just went to the school fair. Maybe England's different, but
the school fair that told you that you're either going to be a
doctor, a nurse, some kind of lawyer.

(01:31:46):
You I was never, I never went tocollege because I knew I wasn't,
I wasn't, I didn't have that brain capacity to be these,
these people. And I was like, why am I going
to spend all this money? Like I really, that was my, my
theory then my only thing I wanted to do was travel the
world. And I can say, no, I have
travelled. Not all of it, but I, I'm, I'm

(01:32:07):
very happy with where I am at the age of 45, sat in my desk in
Crete. I'm very happy.
But I wish I'd have had more guidance.
And I, I still believe now there's not the guidance in the
UK in places to really, I don't know.
And that's where I'd love to. I think it's, I think we're

(01:32:29):
getting there in some ways. I think a lot of people are
pouring back into it. Rock Lititz is doing a fantastic
job. They've started a college there.
They are really just lifting up that next generation of kids and
and teaching and training them every year at the conference.
There's interns there that are learning.

(01:32:51):
Live Nation does has a similar program where they're teaching
kids in the industry. So I think it's, I think it's
there. I think it's like you said, it's
there. It's not there to get that word
out more and really encourage more people to share the

(01:33:12):
information and. Or maybe they people just don't
want it to be there because otherwise the other jobs they
won't get filled either so. Well, I mean it all.
It will all work out the way it's supposed to work out.
Yeah, No, for sure, Yeah. It's not, you know.
It is unique. It's not as glamorous as
everybody seems to think it is, and I think it's.

(01:33:34):
Certainly not glamorous. It's hard work, it's long hours.
You have to be strong. But you either love it or you
hate it. And that, that that's been my
thing. And I've never been, let's say
I'm not going to say the word boy.
I'm going to say it now. Normal but conventional, the nor
the typical type of person. I never had been that person.

(01:33:57):
So this life on the road has always suited me.
Other people, it's just not going to suit, you know, and.
It's not a conventional. Yeah, it is not conventional,
but it's also not very conduciveto being a parent.
Yep. And so there's that part, right?
So, you know, so for people who want to have families then, you

(01:34:18):
know, maybe they go on the road for a season and then they come
off or but it is really hard to be away from kids and your
significant other for long periods of time.
Really don't know how some families do do it.
I mean, I've, I actually know a young family right now.
They, they're both chefs. They met as chefs and I think it
must have been about six years ago they had their first child.

(01:34:41):
They decided to live in the UK and start a stable, normal job
in restaurants. They hated it, they couldn't do
it. So now one of them goes away on
tour. It could be for however long.
When they have the days off, they fly the kids out to see the
dad or the mum who's out on tour.
There's always one parent with them, the mum or the dad, and

(01:35:04):
then the mum or the dad will go off on tour.
Of course, money's so much better.
So then they'll come back and they'll spend, I mean, they went
for two months in Thailand with the children.
Amazing. Amazing.
You know, they, they found the way to make it work.
Yeah. So it's it's everyone will find
their own way to make it work because they will.

(01:35:25):
Yeah, because I will do. So what's next?
Let's let's I think we've gone through.
I was just saying to you, normally we talk for about an
hour. It's been like an hour and a
half now. I'm so sorry.
I know. We're like best friends.
I think we need to hang out next.
I I've never been to Greece, butI'm coming now.
I'm going to come if. You come.
Really. My doors open, but what's next
for you? Yeah.

(01:35:46):
So couple things, yeah. We were talking about this and
it's interesting. So I do, I do spend time at
conferences. I speak at several conferences.
I am doing NOLA music on. I'll be speaking there in
October at South by Southwest. I am on the list as a panel

(01:36:06):
picker have this you choose the panel sessions and so if you are
so inclined, go to the South by Southwest site and vote for our
panel. And it is called Beyond the
Grind and it's about careers in the industry, how to develop
work life balance, what touring careers are out there that are

(01:36:29):
non touring that support the live music industry.
So I think it's a great topic. It just falls right into what we
were just talking about. And hopefully, yeah, if not at
South by Southwest, I'm sure it's going to be on a panel
somewhere at some point. You'll have to drop me the link
for that, so if you you could send me the link and then I'll

(01:36:51):
add it to to the post at the endof it as well.
Perfect. Awesome.
Yeah, I will do. Let's see what else is next.
Echo Live. Just continuing to work with
Echo. Very excited.
We have our fall workshop comingup in November that is free to
anyone who wants to attend and the sessions are all really just
based on the whole person. So it could be anything from

(01:37:15):
talking about a career, talking about your next level career,
talking about getting on the road, off the road, housing,
health insurance, could be just about anything.
We're really just hitting every breath of the topics that affect
people and tour. Let's see, what else.

(01:37:35):
Follow me on social media. I hate saying that so much, but
my PR agency reminds me all the time.
I'm on Instagram, Sharon High Road and on LinkedIn.
Yeah. I love it.
No, that's exactly what we want.And that's also, I'll put all
the tags for people to follow you as well.
So I'll just make sure that we've got all of that.

(01:37:56):
And yeah, that's pretty. But thank you so much for coming
and talking to me. It's been a real pleasure.
How much fun? I feel like we can keep going.
I might need another cup of coffee, but we could.
Thursday we do. I'm just like.
I just. Looked at the time and I was
like, oh, I normally about, you know, 50 minutes to an hour.
It would be like an hour and 40 minutes and I still could carry
on. I know.
Me too. Me too.

(01:38:17):
Yeah, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much.
I feel like I feel like I have anew friend.
Thank you. OK, all the best.
And yeah, thank you for coming to Leading Ladies.
La La La La ladies, the ladies. Now here's the leading ladies by

(01:38:44):
Geezers of Gear on tour. Maybe she got some stories to
share. Now here's the leading ladies by
the Geezers of Gear, Rockstar ladies with some stories to
share. Because la, la, la, la, la, La

(01:39:06):
La La La La La La La La La La La.
Yeah, she's a high. Now here's the leading ladies by

(01:39:28):
Kizers of Gear Rock Star Ladies for some stories to share.
Now here's the leading ladies bythe Kizers of Gear on Toilet.

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#323 - Sharon Lee - Respect and Kindness in the Touring Industry - LEADING LADIES PODCAST

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#323 - Sharon Lee - Respect and Kindness in the Touring Industry - LEADING LADIES PODCAST