April 16, 2025 • 12 mins
On Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's birthday, we dive deep into the ultimate NBA center debate by comparing Kareem and Nikola Jokic, examining their different playing styles and analyzing which archetype might be superior.
• Kareem's impressive resume includes 19 All-Star appearances, 6 MVPs, 6 championships, and career averages of 25 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists
• Jokic brings 7 All-Star appearances, 3 MVPs, 1 championship, and career averages of 22 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists
• In 1v1 matchups, Kareem's two-way ability likely gives him the advantage
• Advanced metrics show Kareem with significantly better defensive ratings (99.4 vs 107.6)
• Jokic dominates offensively with his lowest offensive rating (118) exceeding Kareem's best (112.9)
• The debate centers on whether elite two-way ability beats transcendent offensive impact
• The decision ultimately depends on team construction and what skills you value most in a center
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
What's up everybody.
It's your favorite show'sfavorite show?
Get a Bucket.
I'm your host, trey, and, asusual, I hope you're all having
a wonderful, wonderful day.
Today we're going to talk about,well, nba center archetypes.
What's your favorite type?
Right, I have a personalpreference, just a little
personal preference.
You might even think it'sbiased, but let's talk about it.
Let's talk about it, but beforewe talk about it, please make
(00:22):
sure you hit that like andsubscribe button.
Comment.
Tell anyone who's anyone aboutthe show.
I'm trying to get the ratings upa little bit, just a little bit
.
But, like I said, nba center.
So I have two players that I'mgoing to talk about specifically
.
If you have anybody else thaty'all want to think about,
that's cool, but I'm going totalk about two centers right now
.
So, nicola Yoki and kareemabdul-jabbar.
(00:43):
Shout out, kareem, it's yourbirthday.
Happy birthday, baby.
Um.
What archetype would you ratherhave?
Yokic or kareem's?
Now, yokic's been prettydominant recently, right, and
kareem hell, we know he's beendominant pretty much for all his
career.
So you, I personally say kareem.
(01:04):
I personally say Kareem rightoff the top.
I know a lot of people, though,who would say Yoki because of
recency bias, and I dounderstand that.
I do understand that.
I think a lot of the time,people pay attention to the
assists.
Oh yeah, well, yoki isaveraging a triple-double.
That's because of the assists.
Right, that does work.
I do hear that I think we'retalking about overall.
(01:25):
Kareem might be the betterplayer though.
So, but again, you might not,you might not believe me, you
might not believe me.
That is completely OK, let'stalk about it.
So let's go ahead and start itoff with the birthday boy,
actually, because I do want togive him his flowers, his credit
.
So we're going to bring upKareem Abdul-Jabbar, ladies and
gentlemen, and talk about hisstats.
(01:45):
So, as you can see here on theaccolade side on the right-hand
corner, buddy has been doingquite well for him, so he did
quite well.
Hall of Famer for a reason,right.
19-time All-Star, two-timescoring champ, total rebound
champion, four-time blockchampion, six-time NBA champion,
15-time All-Star or NBA 11-timeAll-Defense Rookie of the Year.
Two-times Final MVP, six-timeMVP that's a lot, I know.
(02:09):
Just right off the top, y'allprobably got annoyed at me
reading up all his accolades.
That tells you, right, there,you are a great player.
If somebody listens to youraccolades starts to get annoyed.
Tremendous job.
Now, when we look over here atthese stats 25 points, 11
rebounds, four assists, thatain't bad.
(02:30):
And if we actually scroll down,let me move this out, no, I'm
going to leave that alone.
If we scroll down for the, forthe career Point nine steals,
two point six blocks, that's notbad.
Again, ladies and gentlemen,that's not bad.
So for Kareem bad Again, ladiesand gentlemen, that's not bad.
So for Kareem dominant playerfor his career, and we got to
(02:50):
factor into, but he played 20seasons, right.
So shout out to Buddy.
Let's look at Nikola Jokic.
I know a lot of players, I knowa lot of people are saying, oh
well, jokic's been prettydominant too, bro, you got to
pull up his stuff, all right,cool.
Well, over 10 years we gotseven-time all-star, an NBA
champion, six-time all-NBA,three-time MVP Career is 22, 11,
(03:15):
and seven.
That's not bad at all, that isnot bad at all.
And then, when we're talkingabout steals, 1.3, and then 0.7
blocks for the career, so again,solid production from Yoki,
solid production from Kareem.
Both players have been dominant.
We stated that before.
(03:36):
Right, which one would you take?
Again, I'm very curious for youall, ladies, I'm very curious,
which one would you all ratherhave For me?
Again, kareem, I'm favoring thetwo all ladies.
I'm very curious, which onewould you all rather have For me
?
Again, kareem, I'm favoring thetwo-way player.
The two-way ability Leans moreso for Kareem, and I hear you
all.
I hear you all you might think,oh well, kareem had better
teammates.
(03:57):
Maybe even the pace of playmight help out Kareem.
Not quite.
Let's think about it from a 1v1perspective.
I'm picking Kareem, y'all mightthink, just because Jokic can
score on the three-point line.
That's cool.
Can Jokic actually stop Kareemfrom scoring his skyhook?
I don't know, and I do believethat Kareem can contest Jokic's
(04:19):
shots.
So again and I'm talking aboutin the paint too, as well as the
perimeter so I got to go 1v1.
How about something like 2v2 or3v3?
Because now we're adding moreplayers where yokic's passing
does come into play still mightfavor kareem, because you got a
lot of space and sorealistically we're talking
about switching.
(04:40):
Being on block, I can useKareem.
Still, jokic could be viewed asa liability on the defensive
end.
I don't think Kareem is.
So, again, I'm going to favorKareem in those matchups 5v5, it
could get a little trickierbecause now we're talking about
extra schemes and stuff.
Jokic could be the point guardor the center for your team.
(05:01):
I understand why you might wantto have him on your squad.
Again, we all need to have apoint guard.
Everybody does not like mypoint guard can do what Yokek's
doing.
My point guard cannot do whatKareem Abdul-Jabbar's doing.
So, again, ladies and gentlemen, for me I got to go.
Kareem, I know what y'alltalking about for those stat
(05:21):
heads, right?
Well, the stats might leanYokek.
I hear people talk about windshares all the time.
Well, something like windshares.
The best wind share season foryoking, I want to say, is
probably right now, and he'sthrowing like 17.5.
17.05, that's his wind sharemarker.
(05:42):
Okay, kareem's best wind sharemarker was 25.37.
So, again, if you're talkingabout advanced stats which
advanced stats are noteverything, but they do matter a
little bit they do favor kareem.
Keep in mind, too, someone likedirk nowitzki did have a higher
windshare rate than yokic.
So you might think yokic's thetop dog, but we could have a
(06:05):
different opinion.
But, again, stellar, stellarplayer, I just favor Kareem.
How about when we're talkingabout, well, defensive stats?
Right, because, again, I favorKareem.
If y'all don't, I don't knowwhat to tell you.
But between Jokic and Kareem,ladies and gentlemen, we're
going to talk about theirdefensive rating.
(06:26):
Again, defense I think wealready set off the numbers
Favors Kareem.
I'm talking about off-the-boxscores, I could say eye test.
I didn't really watch Kareemgrowing up, though, so I saw a
highlight.
It looked like Buddy was abetter defender than Jokic.
No disrespect too, by the way.
There's levels to this.
But the data also shows thatthe best defense, or the career
(06:50):
defensive rating, yokic ishigher than kareem 107.6 to 99.4
.
Keep in mind the lower yournumber for defensive rating, the
better off you'll be.
So kareem's winning this forthe career.
Now yokic's number could drop orrise.
As he's still playing, I expectit to rise, but again, we'll
see.
We'll see because it has beendropping over the last couple
seasons.
People were thinking he wasreal trash as a defender.
(07:13):
Now he gives effort he's nottalking about like Luka.
Now let's talk about the bestdefensive rating season.
Again, it favors Kareem 90 to105.3.
As y'all can see, this is abouta 7 to 8 gap, right?
Cool, make sure my math right.
Yeah, 7 to 9 gap.
(07:34):
7 to 9 point gap is what we'retalking about when we're talking
about Kareem and Yoke's careerdefensive rating and again, it's
going to change.
Right, the best defensiverating.
This could change too.
Don't think it's going tochange but much 90 to 105.
All right, so we're talkingabout a 15-point difference.
That's all right, that's cool,that's cool.
(07:59):
So again, ladies and gentlemen,overall comparisons Kareem had
the lower defensive ratingShould be deemed as the best
defensive player out of the two.
It's not nothing personal, Ican't say it's my personal
opinion.
Numbers speak for themselves,right?
So again, ladies and gentlemen,when we're talking about Nikola
Jokic and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar,they're two great players, just
(08:22):
as levels to this.
How about?
Let's talk about offensively,because this is where Nikola
Jokic does catch up quite nicely.
So, in terms of offense, nikolaJokic does have a better
offensive rating than KareemAbdul-Jabbar 125.7 to 115.5.
So, right there, we're talkingabout a 10-point gap between
(08:43):
Nikola Jokic and KareemAbdul-Jabbar.
Offense the higher the number,the better off you'll be.
So Kareem is actually losingthis battle.
Now.
Keep in mind, though, jokiccould go up or down because,
again, remember, he's stillplaying Kareem's.
That's what it is.
The best offensive rate ofseason is what kind of?
Gave me a call for pausebecause Jokic had a 130.4 and
(09:04):
Kareem had a 112.9.
Ladies and gentlemen, we'retalking about in between 17 and
19 points.
Now that's kind of wild, that'sinsane, that hurts.
And keep in mind, I'm the personwho said NBA play.
I believe in two way ability.
Elite two way players matters alot, but if someone's offense
(09:25):
matters that much more, likeimmensely more, all right, they
can eclipse a two way player.
For me, and this right here iswhat I'm looking at Like and I
that kind of gives me, that iswhat I'm looking at Like, that
kind of gives me that sort ofvibe.
So, and keep in mind, the worstoffensive rating for Yoki has
been 118.
And the worst for Kareem was106.
(09:45):
I think the best for Kareem was112.
So the worst offensive ratingbeats Kareem's best offensive
rating.
That sucks to see.
I'm not going to lie to you.
I don't like how that reads.
That's terrible for me.
But if we're talking about theoverall comparison, again, jokic
(10:06):
wins this matchup.
Ladies and gentlemen, it's notas ugly as the best season.
I don't think it's this ugly.
I don't think it's this ugly.
It's cool though.
It's a cool comparison and itleans, like I said, yoki.
But for me, overall I got to gowith the two-way player Because
, remember, the defensiveadvantage does still lean Kareem
(10:29):
and it's not like we're talkingabout and I hate to use this
comparison but a RudyGobert-esque player.
Right, rudy is not the bestoffensively put player on the
court from a center position.
He's tall, he can get the jobdone, he can get a bucket out
there, but Kareem was averagingabout 25 for his career, ladies
and gentlemen, while alsogetting you elite level
(10:50):
rebounding and elite levelplaymaking for bigs at that time
.
So, because of all of that, Ipersonally favor a player like
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar over aNikola Jokic.
However, I got to say Jokic'soffense does give me a cause for
(11:12):
pause.
So, ladies and gentlemen, pause.
So, ladies and gentlemen, eventhough I got my bias right,
because Kareem is a Laker right,also a noob, y'all see the nail
here, right Y'all.
To the noobs you can say I'mbiased, I hear it.
(11:34):
That's why I want to know fromy'all what do you think,
especially after hearing me nowyou saw the hear me talk.
Curious your thoughts.
Karima yoki one do?
Who do you think is better?
And two, which architect wouldyou rather play with?
Which architect would yourather have on your team?
I'm definitely curious aboutyour thoughts.
But, ladies and gentlemen,please make sure that you like,
subscribe, comment, comment,tell anyone who's anyone, that
(11:58):
it's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar'sbirthday, but also that it's my
show and I'm your host, trey, soI hope you all are having a
good one.
Thank you all for listening.
Take care.
What's up everybody.
It's your favorite show'sfavorite show?
Get a Bucket.
I'm your host, trey, and, asusual, I hope you're all having
a wonderful, wonderful day.
Today we're going to talk about,well, nba center archetypes.
What's your favorite type?
Right, I have a personalpreference, just a little
personal preference.
You might even think it'sbiased, but let's talk about it.
Let's talk about it, but beforewe talk about it, please make
(00:22):
sure you hit that like andsubscribe button.
Comment.
Tell anyone who's anyone aboutthe show.
I'm trying to get the ratings upa little bit, just a little bit
.
But, like I said, nba center.
So I have two players that I'mgoing to talk about specifically
.
If you have anybody else thaty'all want to think about,
that's cool, but I'm going totalk about two centers right now
.
So, nicola Yoki and kareemabdul-jabbar.
(00:43):
Shout out, kareem, it's yourbirthday.
Happy birthday, baby.
Um.
What archetype would you ratherhave?
Yokic or kareem's?
Now, yokic's been prettydominant recently, right, and
kareem hell, we know he's beendominant pretty much for all his
career.
So you, I personally say kareem.
(01:04):
I personally say Kareem rightoff the top.
I know a lot of people, though,who would say Yoki because of
recency bias, and I dounderstand that.
I do understand that.
I think a lot of the time,people pay attention to the
assists.
Oh yeah, well, yoki isaveraging a triple-double.
That's because of the assists.
Right, that does work.
I do hear that I think we'retalking about overall.
(01:25):
Kareem might be the betterplayer though.
So, but again, you might not,you might not believe me, you
might not believe me.
That is completely OK, let'stalk about it.
So let's go ahead and start itoff with the birthday boy,
actually, because I do want togive him his flowers, his credit
.
So we're going to bring upKareem Abdul-Jabbar, ladies and
gentlemen, and talk about hisstats.
(01:45):
So, as you can see here on theaccolade side on the right-hand
corner, buddy has been doingquite well for him, so he did
quite well.
Hall of Famer for a reason,right.
19-time All-Star, two-timescoring champ, total rebound
champion, four-time blockchampion, six-time NBA champion,
15-time All-Star or NBA 11-timeAll-Defense Rookie of the Year.
Two-times Final MVP, six-timeMVP that's a lot, I know.
(02:09):
Just right off the top, y'allprobably got annoyed at me
reading up all his accolades.
That tells you, right, there,you are a great player.
If somebody listens to youraccolades starts to get annoyed.
Tremendous job.
Now, when we look over here atthese stats 25 points, 11
rebounds, four assists, thatain't bad.
(02:30):
And if we actually scroll down,let me move this out, no, I'm
going to leave that alone.
If we scroll down for the, forthe career Point nine steals,
two point six blocks, that's notbad.
Again, ladies and gentlemen,that's not bad.
So for Kareem bad Again, ladiesand gentlemen, that's not bad.
So for Kareem dominant playerfor his career, and we got to
(02:50):
factor into, but he played 20seasons, right.
So shout out to Buddy.
Let's look at Nikola Jokic.
I know a lot of players, I knowa lot of people are saying, oh
well, jokic's been prettydominant too, bro, you got to
pull up his stuff, all right,cool.
Well, over 10 years we gotseven-time all-star, an NBA
champion, six-time all-NBA,three-time MVP Career is 22, 11,
(03:15):
and seven.
That's not bad at all, that isnot bad at all.
And then, when we're talkingabout steals, 1.3, and then 0.7
blocks for the career, so again,solid production from Yoki,
solid production from Kareem.
Both players have been dominant.
We stated that before.
(03:36):
Right, which one would you take?
Again, I'm very curious for youall, ladies, I'm very curious,
which one would you all ratherhave For me?
Again, kareem, I'm favoring thetwo all ladies.
I'm very curious, which onewould you all rather have For me
?
Again, kareem, I'm favoring thetwo-way player.
The two-way ability Leans moreso for Kareem, and I hear you
all.
I hear you all you might think,oh well, kareem had better
teammates.
(03:57):
Maybe even the pace of playmight help out Kareem.
Not quite.
Let's think about it from a 1v1perspective.
I'm picking Kareem, y'all mightthink, just because Jokic can
score on the three-point line.
That's cool.
Can Jokic actually stop Kareemfrom scoring his skyhook?
I don't know, and I do believethat Kareem can contest Jokic's
(04:19):
shots.
So again and I'm talking aboutin the paint too, as well as the
perimeter so I got to go 1v1.
How about something like 2v2 or3v3?
Because now we're adding moreplayers where yokic's passing
does come into play still mightfavor kareem, because you got a
lot of space and sorealistically we're talking
about switching.
(04:40):
Being on block, I can useKareem.
Still, jokic could be viewed asa liability on the defensive
end.
I don't think Kareem is.
So, again, I'm going to favorKareem in those matchups 5v5, it
could get a little trickierbecause now we're talking about
extra schemes and stuff.
Jokic could be the point guardor the center for your team.
(05:01):
I understand why you might wantto have him on your squad.
Again, we all need to have apoint guard.
Everybody does not like mypoint guard can do what Yokek's
doing.
My point guard cannot do whatKareem Abdul-Jabbar's doing.
So, again, ladies and gentlemen, for me I got to go.
Kareem, I know what y'alltalking about for those stat
(05:21):
heads, right?
Well, the stats might leanYokek.
I hear people talk about windshares all the time.
Well, something like windshares.
The best wind share season foryoking, I want to say, is
probably right now, and he'sthrowing like 17.5.
17.05, that's his wind sharemarker.
(05:42):
Okay, kareem's best wind sharemarker was 25.37.
So, again, if you're talkingabout advanced stats which
advanced stats are noteverything, but they do matter a
little bit they do favor kareem.
Keep in mind, too, someone likedirk nowitzki did have a higher
windshare rate than yokic.
So you might think yokic's thetop dog, but we could have a
(06:05):
different opinion.
But, again, stellar, stellarplayer, I just favor Kareem.
How about when we're talkingabout, well, defensive stats?
Right, because, again, I favorKareem.
If y'all don't, I don't knowwhat to tell you.
But between Jokic and Kareem,ladies and gentlemen, we're
going to talk about theirdefensive rating.
(06:26):
Again, defense I think wealready set off the numbers
Favors Kareem.
I'm talking about off-the-boxscores, I could say eye test.
I didn't really watch Kareemgrowing up, though, so I saw a
highlight.
It looked like Buddy was abetter defender than Jokic.
No disrespect too, by the way.
There's levels to this.
But the data also shows thatthe best defense, or the career
(06:50):
defensive rating, yokic ishigher than kareem 107.6 to 99.4
.
Keep in mind the lower yournumber for defensive rating, the
better off you'll be.
So kareem's winning this forthe career.
Now yokic's number could drop orrise.
As he's still playing, I expectit to rise, but again, we'll
see.
We'll see because it has beendropping over the last couple
seasons.
People were thinking he wasreal trash as a defender.
(07:13):
Now he gives effort he's nottalking about like Luka.
Now let's talk about the bestdefensive rating season.
Again, it favors Kareem 90 to105.3.
As y'all can see, this is abouta 7 to 8 gap, right?
Cool, make sure my math right.
Yeah, 7 to 9 gap.
(07:34):
7 to 9 point gap is what we'retalking about when we're talking
about Kareem and Yoke's careerdefensive rating and again, it's
going to change.
Right, the best defensiverating.
This could change too.
Don't think it's going tochange but much 90 to 105.
All right, so we're talkingabout a 15-point difference.
That's all right, that's cool,that's cool.
(07:59):
So again, ladies and gentlemen,overall comparisons Kareem had
the lower defensive ratingShould be deemed as the best
defensive player out of the two.
It's not nothing personal, Ican't say it's my personal
opinion.
Numbers speak for themselves,right?
So again, ladies and gentlemen,when we're talking about Nikola
Jokic and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar,they're two great players, just
(08:22):
as levels to this.
How about?
Let's talk about offensively,because this is where Nikola
Jokic does catch up quite nicely.
So, in terms of offense, nikolaJokic does have a better
offensive rating than KareemAbdul-Jabbar 125.7 to 115.5.
So, right there, we're talkingabout a 10-point gap between
(08:43):
Nikola Jokic and KareemAbdul-Jabbar.
Offense the higher the number,the better off you'll be.
So Kareem is actually losingthis battle.
Now.
Keep in mind, though, jokiccould go up or down because,
again, remember, he's stillplaying Kareem's.
That's what it is.
The best offensive rate ofseason is what kind of?
Gave me a call for pausebecause Jokic had a 130.4 and
(09:04):
Kareem had a 112.9.
Ladies and gentlemen, we'retalking about in between 17 and
19 points.
Now that's kind of wild, that'sinsane, that hurts.
And keep in mind, I'm the personwho said NBA play.
I believe in two way ability.
Elite two way players matters alot, but if someone's offense
(09:25):
matters that much more, likeimmensely more, all right, they
can eclipse a two way player.
For me, and this right here iswhat I'm looking at Like and I
that kind of gives me, that iswhat I'm looking at Like, that
kind of gives me that sort ofvibe.
So, and keep in mind, the worstoffensive rating for Yoki has
been 118.
And the worst for Kareem was106.
(09:45):
I think the best for Kareem was112.
So the worst offensive ratingbeats Kareem's best offensive
rating.
That sucks to see.
I'm not going to lie to you.
I don't like how that reads.
That's terrible for me.
But if we're talking about theoverall comparison, again, jokic
(10:06):
wins this matchup.
Ladies and gentlemen, it's notas ugly as the best season.
I don't think it's this ugly.
I don't think it's this ugly.
It's cool though.
It's a cool comparison and itleans, like I said, yoki.
But for me, overall I got to gowith the two-way player Because
, remember, the defensiveadvantage does still lean Kareem
(10:29):
and it's not like we're talkingabout and I hate to use this
comparison but a RudyGobert-esque player.
Right, rudy is not the bestoffensively put player on the
court from a center position.
He's tall, he can get the jobdone, he can get a bucket out
there, but Kareem was averagingabout 25 for his career, ladies
and gentlemen, while alsogetting you elite level
(10:50):
rebounding and elite levelplaymaking for bigs at that time
.
So, because of all of that, Ipersonally favor a player like
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar over aNikola Jokic.
However, I got to say Jokic'soffense does give me a cause for
(11:12):
pause.
So, ladies and gentlemen, pause.
So, ladies and gentlemen, eventhough I got my bias right,
because Kareem is a Laker right,also a noob, y'all see the nail
here, right Y'all.
To the noobs you can say I'mbiased, I hear it.
(11:34):
That's why I want to know fromy'all what do you think,
especially after hearing me nowyou saw the hear me talk.
Curious your thoughts.
Karima yoki one do?
Who do you think is better?
And two, which architect wouldyou rather play with?
Which architect would yourather have on your team?
I'm definitely curious aboutyour thoughts.
But, ladies and gentlemen,please make sure that you like,
subscribe, comment, comment,tell anyone who's anyone, that
(11:58):
it's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar'sbirthday, but also that it's my
show and I'm your host, trey, soI hope you all are having a
good one.
Thank you all for listening.
Take care.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!