Applying Zen Golf To Your Short Game with Dr. Joe Parent

239: This week we continue our conversation with Dr. Joseph Parent, author of the celebrated Zen Golf. Our conversation focuses on short game and anger management. For more visit http://zengolf.com. Originally, this was Members Only episode #332, published in May 2012, so it’s the first time it’s being shared publicly for free!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, yoursecond chance to gain insight and advice from
the best instructors featured on the GolfSmarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction never gets
old. Our interview library features hundredsof hours of game improvement conversations like this

(00:21):
that are no longer available in anypodcast app. Well, you know,
I had an interesting experience about anangry golfer. We got him calmed down
and he actually played better, andhe said, you know what, I
miss being angry. Some people useanger on the golf course as their way
of venting because they can't get madat their boss, and they can't get

(00:43):
mad and take it out on theirwives, and they can't take it out
on their kids and their dogs.And the only place that they feel like
it's okay to get mad is thegolf course. It's a problem because it
isn't fun for other people. Butthere are some people who that's their place
to get mad. And you tryto say I'm sorry, you're not having
a good time, and they sortof say they're not having a good time,

(01:06):
but underneath they are having a goodtime in that they're getting their anger
out and they're cursing and moaning andangry. It seems like all through the
round and they finish and they go, I hate this game. What time
do we play tomorrow? With anotherinterview from the archives of Golf Smarter,
here's your host, Fred Green.Welcome back to Golf Smarter for members only,

(01:30):
Doctor Joe. Thanks Fred, greatto be here. Thank you very
much. Now, even though werecorded our first conversation, usually I'll just
like one right after the other.But we've gone days now and we've had
to both had time to think aboutthis. But I do want to get
back to a couple of things thatI brought up at the end, and
one of them is a short gameroutine. I know that when if I

(01:55):
ever show my frustration on the golfcourse, it's I'm within ten to fifteen
yards of the green and take myshot and I'm only seven or eight yards
from the green. To me,it's like, why is this so difficult?
This is supposed to be the easiestthing. I'm so close. I
just went four hundred and fifty yardsand two shots, and now it takes

(02:15):
me six shots to go another twelve. Well, people typically tighten up and
jab at the ball with their shortgame, and I discovered this while I
was playing. I was just asyou described. I was maybe twenty yards
off the green on a tightly moanedfairway, and I made what I felt

(02:38):
were really exactly the kind of practiceswings that I wanted to make, just
kind of nipping the surface of thegrass, not digging in, but definitely
clipping the surface of the grass.And then I set up to the ball
and jabbed and sculled it right overthe green, and I went, ah,

(03:00):
I wish I could just get awaywith just the ah if I had,
if I had hit the ball withmy practice swing, that would have
been fine. So I dropped anotherball, and I said, I'm just
going to pretend this ball isn't there, and I'm going to make another practice
swing. And it goes whoop,and it zips up and stops two inches

(03:20):
from the hole. So the moralof the story is, I said,
that's it. From now on,I'm never hitting another shot with anything but
my practice swing. So I wentto test it out. I went and
got the ball that i'd sculled overthe green, and it had gone up
a slope, so I had adown slope back onto the green in kind
of fluffy grass, very different thanthe tight line. So I made the

(03:43):
practice swing, you know, putmy weight down, the slope and all
of those things you're supposed to do. Made my practice swing through a patch
of fluffy grass just like the onethe ball was sitting in. And then
as I walked I set up tothe ball. I said, okay,
one more practice swing through that grassand pretended the ball wasn't there, And

(04:05):
I made the practice swing. Theball popped out, landed on the green,
rolled down a foot from the hole. I said, that's it.
I got it. So this isthe practice. Uh, this is the
short game routine that I teach teachpeople, and that is you find your

(04:25):
ball and check out the lie andand find a patch of similar grass.
Usually people just you know, setup three inches from the ball, right
next to it, and swing theirtheir putter through the grass, their their
wedge through the grass. No,No, find similar a similar patch of
grass to the way the ball issitting and a similar lie. Well,

(04:46):
if you're downhill or the grain isgoing the up strict type of thing,
right, what yes, from whatyou have to do is you have to
make your practice swing and pretend thereis a ball there, because I see
people swish through to the top ofthe grass and then they get to the
ball and they have to dig down, and it's a whole different swing.
So you have to dig down through. If your ball sitting down, go

(05:09):
down and find the bottom of asimilar patch of grass. So you make
a swing as if the ball isas if there is a ball there,
and you go down as deeply asyou need to. If it's sitting up
on top, you sweep across thetop, but you do it the way
the ball is actually sitting. Andyou do that in your practice area.

(05:30):
And what I want you to dois not just swish back and forth people
just no. You make the swingthrough, hold the finish and say is
that the one? Now, whatI mean by that is you have to
picture the way you want the ballto come out land and how much you
expect it to release towards the hole. So is that the swing that's going

(05:54):
to produce your picture? Ask yourself, is that the one? You hold
the finish that long that you askis that the one? Then you say
either yes, you can confirm itwith another one, or if you say
no, then go in there anddo it again until your answer when you
say is that the one the answeris yes. Then walk. You set

(06:17):
up to the ball and all you'redoing is aiming and getting your setup because
you're going to try and make exactlythe same swing. And you say to
yourself want or say it out loud, one more practice swing just like that
through the grass, not at theball, like that the grass, and
you try to almost look past theball, imagine it's not there, and

(06:40):
just look at the grass where youwant the club to go through the grass,
and you make your swing. Now, if you do it properly,
there should be a moment of panicright then. And the reason you should
have that little moment of panic isyou should have convinced yourself that you weren't
really swinging at a ball, justswinging through the grass. So the moment

(07:01):
of panic is realizing the ball hastaken off and you didn't try to hit
it. So that's why the momentof panic. But what usually follows if
you've really done it properly is asoft floating shot. See, because you're
not hitting at a ball, you'rejust sweeping through the grass, or even
if you're digging hard down through thegrass, the ball floats out lands hopefully

(07:27):
where you intended and releases. Ifit doesn't follow the path that you pictured,
it just means that your guess onthe practice swing wasn't quite the right
size or force of practice swing.So elements of the routine. Find a
patch of grass similar to the waythe ball is sitting, make your swings

(07:50):
through that as if the ball isthere, hold the finish till you get
the one, then make your actualswing as the ball isn't there, and
observe the results. And most people'sintuition is pretty good, and you'll be
quite pleased and delighted with the resultsthat you get. If it doesn't come

(08:13):
out the way you thought it would, you learned something from it, and
so you know that you can makea bigger or smaller swing and get the
results you do want next time.Sometimes what my frustrations will be is it
is, you know, a littlesculling it and going all the way across

(08:35):
the green, or coming up short, or just I found it, actually
found it. Picking a spot,trying to find that spot where it's going
to land, and just focusing onthat helps me as well. But usually
I come up a little shorter thanI you know, I had hoped because
I'm afraid, oh my gosh,if I take that swing, it's I'm

(08:56):
gonna scull it and it then youknow, yes, that's right. That
really pulls me back. And that'sa very typical thing because I see people
making practice swings that are bigger thantheir actual swing, and they think they're
trying to get a feel for howthe club goes through the grass. But

(09:16):
what happens is subconsciously you make thoseswings. You get up to the ball
and subconsciously you know, if Imake a swing that big and that forceful
through the grass, that ball's goingall the way over the green. Yep.
So you decell, which the samething happens in putting strokes. You
deceell and then the ball kind oflimps up there and even if it carries

(09:39):
as far as you pictured, itdoesn't really have anything on it and just
kind of dies there. So that'swhy it's so important that you make a
realistic swing, as if you wereswinging at a ball, not just sweeping
through the grass. A realistic swingis if you're swinging at a ball and
then reproduce that at the end actualball, but only intending to swing through

(10:03):
the grass, all right. Theother thing that happens is if you pick
a spot, you get too carefuland try to be too perfectly. So
I want you to pick an areafor it to land. If I tell
you to take a a you know, if you look at a table sitting
on the other side of the roomand I tell you to throw, toss

(10:26):
a quarter and if it doesn't landin the cup, right in the cup
sitting in the middle of the table, you made a bad throw. You're
going to get very tight and tryto really guide it there. If I
say, you know, aim atthat cup on the table, but anywhere
on the table is a good shot, you just toss it. You don't
even have to look. You justkind of toss its sidearm and boom right

(10:48):
in the middle of the table.So I want you to see an area.
Give yourself at least three foot circleto land. And when you're hitting
a pitcher of chip, and ifyou can, give yourself a five foot
circle the land and depending on howfar you are, well, no,
give you some of the five footsort of the land and say, you
know, I'm going to land towardsthe middle of that circle, but anywhere

(11:11):
in there I'll end up within fivefeet of the hole. Fine, much
better to give yourself room to playinstead of trying to land exactly on a
spot with your chip. Okay,I like it good, I like it,
And I thought for sure you weregoing to say so. The moral

(11:31):
of the story is always hit asecond ball. Well, that second guy
is really much better, because it'salways going to be better, So just
go ahead and hit it. Forgethit the other one, and then we
t one up and we hit agood shot, and everybody says, you
know, you gotta let that secondguy hit first. Yeah, exactly,
or we call it. We sometimescall it the second team All American.

(11:54):
That if my second second team guyplayed, he'd be an All American,
right, Okay, So that's reallythat is the idea, that the second
one you don't care about, Soyou just swing the club the way you
would on your practice wing. Hey, and it turns out pretty well.
So the moral of the story isuse your practice swing to hit the ball.

(12:18):
Will do Coach, I have anotherinteresting one for you. Go for
it. And this happened in alesson. I had three eighteen to twenty
handicappers that came for a corporate client. Appreciation Day, and I offered those

(12:39):
companies bring their clients out for azen golf experience with me. We work
on the putting green, we workon the range, then we go play
nine or eighteen holes on the golfcourse. So I'm watching these guys hit
on the range and they're all eitherchunking or scooping or thinning. And I

(13:01):
asked him a key question. Isay, when you make a swing,
you bring the club up away fromthe ground, You bring it down toward
the ground, and then you bringit past. And when you're on the
through swing, you bring it upaway from the ground. Where is the
lowest point in that swing arc?And two of them said at the ball

(13:26):
and one said behind the ball.The actual answer is a few inches in
front of the ball. And Isaid, wish I was there, I
would raise my hand. I know, I know, you've ever seen on
TV where the pros the club theclubhead and slow motion hits the ball then
enters the grass and the lowest pointin the dibot is several inches in front

(13:50):
of the ball and then it comesup. And one of the guys said,
yeah, I've seen that, butI thought that was just for the
pros. Isn't that amazing, That'sreally interesting. I thought it was just
for the pros. I thought wewere supposed to hit it right at the
ball, and so I said,no, it's pretty much for everybody.

(14:11):
The club is designed so that theface impacts the ball and then continue the
leading edge continues down further into thegrass and the lowest point comes up.
And my friends Bobby Clampett and AndyBrumer wrote a book called The Impact Zone
in which they talk about that alot, and it's very important. So

(14:33):
if you have that image, itchanges everything about the way you swing.
Because they were trying to help theball in the air like most golfers do.
Most high handicappers do well. Tohelp the ball in the air,
you have to either and it's sittingon the ground. You either have to
be coming from underground to hit itin which you chunk it and hit it
fat, or if you miss theground trying to do that, you hit

(14:56):
it thin. Just by telling themthat difference so that as they set up,
they looked two or three inches infront of the ball and said,
my intention is to swing through theball to that lowest point before my swing
comes up. The quality of thesound of their impact and the crispness of
the impact changed dramatically, and oneof the players actually played way better than

(15:24):
he'd ever played before. Just withthat understanding, now you could say,
well, this is a physical partof the game, but the mental part
of understanding how the club works andwhat it is you're trying to accomplish,
not how to swing the club,but what you're trying to get it to
do, changes everything for him.You like that one. I like that

(15:46):
one a lot, And it reallykind of dovetails off of the last two
episodes that we did before you cameon last week with Jim Hardy and talking
about ballflight. There you go,Yeah, very very interesting, and I
can see asking that question a lot. What It's very simple too, because
it's such a great a graphic imagein your mind, what is the lowest

(16:10):
part of your swing? And somany people are you know, don't even
understand, you know, like toget different ball flights, you have different
golf clubs. Each club can helpyou out here, right, because you
have no how it's designed to beused. And I stood on the range
and watched an instructor trying to gethis student to get to his left side
through the swing, and he puta ball under his right foot, and

(16:34):
he put a glove under one arm, and you know, he's doing all
these things, and he'd eventually getthe guy to the left side. Then
he'd say, fine, now let'splay a shot. Boom, falling back
and hit on his right side.And I just walked over and I asked
the same question. I said,where do you think the bottom of the
swing is? He says, rightat her, slightly behind the ball.
And I said, that's why whenyou swing, you fall back on your

(16:57):
right side, because that's the onlyway you can get the club under the
ball and on the way up atthe ball is to be falling back to
your right side. And and ifyou get to your left side, the
bottom of the swing is going tobe in front of the ball. So
as soon as I explain that,every shot, he got to his left

(17:18):
side. And it's something really importantfor instructors to explain to their students that
that's where the bottom of the swingis. And once they do that,
it's not hard for the student toget to his or her left side.
So I hope that's helpful. Ohmy gosh, Well, I just I'm
helpful for all your listeners well andfor me as well. I'm playing with

(17:41):
a friend this week who this isa chronic problem for him, and I
cannot wait to ask him the questionis the first time he does this,
first time he just rolls the balland tops it along. It's like it's
gonna be the perfect question. Andin fact, you can say, you
know, I want you to hita couple of shots where you're looking You're
not looking at the ball, You'relooking two inches in front of the ball
and saying that's where I'm trying toget the club down to in front of

(18:04):
the ball, and see what happens. I think I think he'll be pleasantly
surprised. So the lessons that yougive, like you said, you have
these corporate lessons, you work withpeople you know one on one face to

(18:25):
face, but from our conversations inthe past, you have the students that
you don't get to be holding aclub with them. Well that you know,
I would say more of my lessonsare actually by phone or skype than

(18:45):
in person. You know, Idon't necessarily follow the pros that I work
with around all the different tournaments Iwork with players on the PGA Tour,
the Nationwide Tour, the Ladies EuropeanTour, the Ladies Tour. I just
worked with had a phone lesson witha player at the Zuri Classic in New

(19:06):
Orleans. He was calling me fromthe French Quarter in New Orleans this morning.
And then when we get off thephone, I'm going to be talking
to a Ladies European Tour player who'sin France right now. So it's everywhere
and on Skype. Sometimes I canactually get them to show me their putting

(19:29):
stroke, but mostly it's about themental game. And I can tell by
the way they describe their patterns andwhat they're going through and do, and
give them a lot of great thingsto work with from the Zen golf point
of view, from understanding the mentalgame, that six inch course between your

(19:49):
ears, Yeah, that big,vast six inch course, we can work
with that by phone or Skype absolutelywell. Then if how does your structure
work on that? Because here wehave an audience of people from all over
the world that are listening to thisand getting these wonderful lessons from you already,

(20:12):
but if they wanted to get intouch with you to do personal lessons
via phone or Skype. They doit right through my website zenolf dot com
and hit contact us or just sendan email to info I NFO at zenolf
dot com. And I am happyto offer all of your members, the

(20:34):
members of Golf Smarter twenty five percentdiscount on phone Skype lessons, and certainly
the same applies if they want tocome to the Ohi Valley in and Spa
resort and have an in person lessonwith me. So they just need to
mention golf Smarter Smarter and say I'ma member of Golf Smarter Smarter and they

(20:55):
will get their discount. That's verykind, that's very nice. Thank you.
I'm sure that you're going to behearing because the Golf Smarter members are
far more active than the normal listenerswho you know, listen on every other
week. But these people are I'mso grateful, but they're listening every every
episode that comes out, go backand listen to other episodes. So I

(21:17):
appreciate you extending that offer to them. Thank you absolutely. And you know
all I can offer is more consistency, less frustration and lower scores. Well,
that's not what I'm looking for.I'm looking for a playing partner.
That you have to go to golfmatch dot com. Or you should have

(21:38):
a social social network where people canfind other golf smarter playing partners. Oh,
I like it. It's called theFacebook that one. So no,
what about those folks, thanks againfor that offer. What about those folks
who either have let's say, angerissues or not just anger management issues like

(22:03):
that? What about those perfectionists,those people who get so frustrated because they
like to have everything in control andthey want to be perfect, which golf
is not a game of perfect.I guess they shouldn't be playing golf in
the first place, but they dobecause they want to get better and better.
But how do you deal with thatas a mental coach? Well,

(22:26):
you know, I had an interestingexperience about an angry golfer. A writer
from a golf magazine came out andhe had as a very fiery temper,
and he said, you know,work with me on this, let me
see what's going on. And wegot him calm down and he actually played

(22:47):
better and he said, you knowwhat, I miss being angry. And
it was really it was interesting becauseit really struck a chord and I realized
some people use anger on the golfcourse as their way of venting and getting
it out because they can't get madat their boss, and they can't get

(23:11):
mad and take it out on theirwives, and they can't take our husbands,
and they can't take it out ontheir kids and their dogs. And
the only place that they feel likeit's okay to get mad is the golf
course. Now it's a problem becauseit isn't fun for other people. It's
not appropriate. It really isn't appropriate. It isn't fun. But there are

(23:33):
some people who that's their place toget mad, and you know, you
try to say, I'm sorry,you're not having a good time, and
they sort of say they're not havinga good time, but underneath they are
having a good time in that they'regetting their anger out and they're cursing and
moaning and just you know, angry. It seems like all through the round

(24:00):
and the last round and they finishand they go, I hate this game.
What time we play tomorrow? Waita minute, if you hate this
game, why don't you quit?No? No, no, I want
to play. This is good forthis is healthy for me. So what's
going on there? There's something goingon there where they say they don't like
it, but they like it becauseit's their way of getting those emotions out

(24:26):
that they don't get to show otherplaces. And as I said, it's
unfortunate for the people who have toplay with them, but for some people
that's the case. As far asperfectionists go, I think that the comment
I made earlier about giving yourself roomto play, it's just so much more

(24:48):
fun if you think about it,what shots do you enjoy? Do you
only enjoy the perfect ones? Well, i'll tell you what. Ben Hogan
was asked how many shots around hefelt he could hit exactly the way he
wanted, and he said, ifI hit three shots in around exactly the
way I wanted, it was agood round to golf. So do you

(25:11):
think we could please lower our standardsand acts a little bit? I mean,
we're trying to make higher standards thanBen Hogan, and he was kind
of a good ball striker, Sorelax, just you know, say,
you know that was close. IfI do a little more of this or
a little more of that, it'llbe a great shot. But if you

(25:33):
keep saying your shots are terrible whenthey're not perfect, you're gonna hit all
terrible shots and you're gonna be miserable. I'd rather say, you know,
unless you hit one really squirrely andreally sideways, why don't you say that
was close? You know, itwas pin high, or it was on
my line, or it was thetrajectory or want, or it was the

(25:55):
shape I wanted just a little moreof it than I wanted, you know,
just say it was close. Sayif I do a little less of
this or a little more of that, it could be really good, and
then you'll start building your confidence andyou'll enjoy the game a lot more.
And it's as critical. I wantto leave you with this thought. People
think if only I played better,I'd enjoy it more. It actually works

(26:15):
the other way around. If you'denjoy it more, you'd play better.
Absolutely for having me on, Fred, I really appreciate it. Time to
go, huh, I do needto go, and you need to go
because you have five minutes to getto your appointment. Yeah. Well I
had seventeen more questions for you.But again, thanks so much doing enough
time. We will do another andcongratulations, happy anniversary on the book,

(26:37):
and thank you again for that generousoffer of the twenty five percent discount for
Golf Smarter members. Absolutely. Yes, it's the tenth anniversary of the publication
of zen Goolf and we have overa quarter of a million copies so sold
around the world in eight different languages. We just got our contract for the

(26:57):
Finland version version of zen Golf,so we've got a wide variety of languages.
And you know that it shows it'sa global game and I'm doing skype
lessons all over the world, sotune in. Thanks so much, and
the book is all your books areavailable on the golfersmart eargolfsmarter dot com.

(27:18):
Thanks doctor Joe. We'll talk toyou again too, Okay, by friends,