July 13, 2021 • 33 mins
This week’s guest is Shaun Webb - he’s a top 100 teacher, been coaching for 20 years and has achieved great success with his business Athletic Motion Golf.
Athletic Motion Golf integrates other sports' exercises and drills to golf instruction. He also studies the commonalities of great players to incorporate and improve the uniqueness of each student. Tony and Shaun share four different similarities of great players, they also talk about what it takes to become a successful coach. This episode is loaded with great teaching techniques and experience.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
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(01:05):
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We're on a mission to help golfers from all over the world,
achieve their goals by understanding what it actually
takes to play their best golf. We're talking with leading
instructors, researchers, and players themselves to find what
is actually working Hey, thanks for joining us today.
(01:33):
You are listening to one of our partner shows.
It is the tour coach podcast with Tony ruggero.
He has some phenomenal guests ontalking about teaching tour Pros
will have his players on, it's always a great show.
Today was another great episode want to share that with you here
on the gulf science side podcast.
Let's get into it. So here I am on the door.
(01:58):
Coach once again on the road, meand my dog Chip Shot headed down
to the keys for a holiday weekend and joined by my good
friend several years back. I tried to hire him but it was
too big and famous for me. Already at that point.
He's on underground stuff. Athletic motion golf obviously
just under great players and recently just been named as one
(02:19):
of golf magazine's top 100 teachers which is extremely well
deserve Sean web, what's up Shawn?
Hey man. Tony How's it going buddy?
It's going good. Go good.
You're on fire lots of good stuff over the last couple of
years you had you know I've beendoing the athletic motion golf
for a while now but over the last couple years it seems like
it's really exploded bound of this the right way to say it,
(02:41):
but kind of like mainstream, youknow, instead of just people
seeing it a little bit here and there seems like everybody knows
about it and for one I think it's a huge service to teachers
as well as just folks trying to get better at their game.
I appreciate that. Yeah, you know, it's like
everything else you do it for? If we do what we've been doing,
almost six, I think six years now and you do it for you know,
23 years and it doesn't seem like you're getting much
(03:03):
traction but I guess you don't realize how many people are
watching it and then yeah I guess well in the last couple
years and especially last year during covid everybody was home
trying to figure out their golf swing I guess.
And it just kind of really did explode during that time so
we're having fun with it. We're just going to keep kind of
moving forward and keep putting out videos and people are
enjoying them and hopefully theycontinue to do so.
(03:26):
You get the idea for athletic motion dogs and talk a little
bit about, you know, behind thatlike, you know, how do you
formulate this idea? Spend most the research of the
things that you come up with. Yeah.
So I've been wanting to do something on an internet for
years because I thought it was kind of a wide open space there
wasn't really anybody doing it. What I thought was the right way
(03:48):
which is kind of use all this technology and kind of have a
data-driven approach. Like hey let's look at what all
the good players do and try to figure out some of the things
that they A do that average players can do, you don't have
to be Dusty Johnson, to kind of make the movements that were
talking about. And I thought about it for years
and years. But, you know, I was at a
conference sitting down and my business partner.
(04:08):
Now, Mike granato was sitting there and he was wanting to do
something similar. I said, well, maybe we should
just try to do it together. Do you always needs?
You get a couple guys, same kindof ideas and passion for
something, it's always easier todo.
So we both played Sports growingup and I felt like over the
years, you know, my swing when Iwas, you know, I was growing up
was a certain way. I was a good athlete and a good
(04:30):
ball strikes. And I think over the years I
almost got caught out of it because I think a lot of times,
you know you start working on too many physicians in this
dying and getting these static kind of looking in the mirror
all the time. Trying to figure stuff out and I
had lost that athleticism some take a little bit, maybe we
should do something try to get people to swing more like an
athlete, you know, and it would hopefully resonate with, like,
people that played other sports and that's kind of all started.
(04:53):
And we just started putting out a few Leo's here and there and
it just started growing the thought of it resonated with
people and it's been going strong since I like a lot of the
ideas especially around athletic, the what you just
talked about you, I do a lot of a lot of my struggles and I do
and I've learned a lot from Colby to ye trainer out onto her
(05:16):
new strains of two athletes, right?
Like exact various knowledge in the reason.
So it's similar like it was a big influence on me because I
started to see how Some of thesedrills and exercises with bands
and different things were so easily transferred to the golf
swing, you know, some of these exercises and I found that
(05:36):
people had an easier time applying some of these thoughts
of the golf swing of you, put itin terms, and you put it in
training that is morath like an athletic drill rather than you
just hand them a golf club and asked him to go to a spotter, to
do a move. So I totally get where you're
coming from that. I think the, I think that's why
I have this. To me, it's a big help to
(05:59):
recreational golfers. If you can make it more athletic
because to me, it's in more in terms and feels and things that
they probably done in other things in their life coming up.
Exactly. And you know we're always asking
people in lessons. Hey did you play other sports
and the waubansee yet played tennis?
I played baseball and you know immediately we try to find drill
(06:20):
that kind of integrates what they already did in the past
with other sports and once you That the light bulb kind of goes
on, they almost say wow, I didn't even know I was allowed
to do that because it had been alot of times they're taught out
of that because of all the over the years, you know, you've been
teaching a long time, you know, there was a time when it was
really position and then there'sa place for positional base
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construction and I teach that way sometimes put on who's
standing in front of me. But you tend to get away from
the overall idea that the swing is one big flowing motion,
right? And when you start piecing it up
too much, it removes a lot of the athleticism that that may
have had from other sports that could help them with golf.
So, just that thought process, Ithink like you said, bring it to
(07:05):
the lesson T using some of theseexercises and different motion
drills, it really does help the average guy.
Well, I think that, you know, like you're talking about
position driven and we all I think the beauty and one of the
reasons you're a great teachers,teach the guy in front of you
and whatever they need is what you're going to give them right
and is exactly right. You know what I taught
(07:27):
yesterday? I taught you know, in
Montgomery, Alabama. And I taught a guy that you've
been going to a, you know, one of these people that, you know,
a young guy which would be we'renot young anymore.
But like I think all of us go through phases as teachers where
we get onto something that we teach everybody to do that,
right? Yes.
And you know, and here was a guywho was, you know, mean he had
(07:49):
his grip, strong, trying to bow.It area guy.
That and the guy hit the, you know, but he didn't have any
pivot, right. And Up.
And he was like, man, this is like he's got everybody trying
to do this and I was like, well,you know, I think that that's a
phase that teachers go through and his they go through where
they, you know, they they hook on something, they try to teach
everybody the same thing. And one thing I love about your
(08:12):
teaching is the athletic motion gospel.
He one part of what you do, but you teach people in front and
you give the person in front of you, what she denied to me,
that's the mark of what a reallygood teacher.
A great teacher, is we all have preferences?
He got to make the person in front of you better exactly and
it's funny say that we have people comment on the YouTube
(08:33):
stuff a lot or sometimes a you know that's all great but only
Dustin Johnson could do it and you know we try to find the
commonalities in these great players that everybody can apply
like you said okay maybe you if you don't have a good pivot
you're not going to be able to play with that super strong grip
and a boat left wrist or both. So let's find something that
(08:55):
works for you that Chimneys Windows, right?
As long as what you're doing, kind of fits in these functional
windows or what what makes the ball fly straight.
We're okay with it. I know you are too because
everybody's going to swing it a little bit different.
Everybody's different sizes, different arm lengths.
They can turn different rates and amounts.
So let's find what works for theperson standing in front of us,
(09:17):
gets the ball, flying straight and kind of is within certain
parameters. I think that's the way that for
me, and I think you'll probably agree.
That's the best way to go. About teaching golf.
Not everybody's going to do it exactly the same.
So when you talk about the curious about this we talk about
commonalities, I'm going to poselike this is my you know like
I've just had this thought I don't know like motion stuff
(09:39):
that I say I don't have any scientific back up.
Yeah but like I always look at, you know I'm a big pivot
teacher, right? I teach a lot of it and I've
always thought that as you go for like a 20 handicapper to a
tour player that age, they keep getting better.
Of the pivot keeps getting better and to me the worst, the
player generally, the worst of pivot is I know there's outliers
(10:03):
to that, right? I mean, I know, this guy's that
right. But like in general I found that
and always been my kind of theory or hypothesis.
Like when I develop a young player like I like to get them
real balanced and then deliveredand then develop the pivot and I
know that all the research showsus, everybody if it's different,
some people get more pressure behind it some less but develop
(10:25):
the pivot. Which is best for them early.
And then kind of at the other stuff that's just kind of how
I've done things that. I mean I've made a couple
people. Okay.
But yeah, right. So like when you look at the
commonalities of what good players do, I'm curious what do
you find? Are couldn't are some common
out, you know, over the years. I guess we picked a few.
We did even did a golf.com article last year.
(10:47):
I think it was the most read article of the year but you
know, one of them we like to seeis making sure like, let's just
start with like the backswing stuff.
Common, I was a great players. The great players don't overly
bend the trail arm at the top. So if you're right-handed, we
don't like to see it. Like let's say 120 degrees would
be too bad. We see all the guys that we have
(11:08):
in our gear system. We have a lot, we have like 900
million and earnings combined around 90 degrees.
I think macro is, Elise would like 55.
So, just off the top, my head, that would be one of the
commonalities. Another one would be, we like to
see a little bit of a shift off the ball.
The first car, the backswing. So those kind of Twisting the
hips toward the target, we just don't see it.
(11:29):
In great players. What kind of stuff are you
thinking? Of know?
The trail are more the right armof a golfer is, was that
interesting to me? I never thought about it in
terms of that and I can, I'm notsaying I haven't acted players
that don't do this. Yeah.
Graph. This and that there's not
exceptions and that's like to meet where the people are by
gets in a pissing contest. Like you go through the handles
(11:51):
golf, if you can find an exception to anything and you'll
say, right. Absolutely.
Because of the best players in the world and that there and
they're great. But like, that's interesting to
me because I like, in this goes back to like your old golf
machine days. But like, your right arm trying
to feel like it's stretching your left going back, and your
percent 100 percent. And I think this is just me,
(12:14):
like, we're good players. Like, you know, you can get, if
I can get them to keep that arm.Feel like it's got some
structure and stretch, going back in the arm, a little more
in front of them. I'm not Big arms, deep behind
ya. And I know I've had players that
are good that do that. But I'm saying like we're
talking about like we had a person in front of us.
(12:36):
You know, what are things that we see that are common in good
ball Strikers and I know that one thing.
If you watch old Golf Channel stuff that you've done stuff on
this, you know, when Butch and all his success.
I know, one of the things he's tried to do is just to get
people wide and in front of themand I think a lot of that is
because when people do that, I think I'm just guessing here,
but I also think that would havegood Player tries to keep it
(12:57):
wide and in front of them they turn more absolutely, there's no
doubt about it and I'm just thinking of a top, my head, some
pivot oriented stuff know, a lotof what we're seeing lately.
We talked about, you know, balance in a swing or a lot of
the great ball Striker, be measured a very balanced with
their hip turn. Like let's say, they have 40.
Let's say, for example, 45 degrees at the top there around
(13:19):
at 45 degree range, it impacts very balanced, kind of rotation.
And a lot of times when we see aThursday.
Try to make this massive hip turn on the backswing but let's
say they do 6570, which we've seen in the 3D system of guys
coming in. Well, you've only got, you know,
point two seconds to hit the ball and they're trying to get
open from there and they don't have enough time.
(13:41):
So just on this pivot idea and we see that a lot to just a
balance, kind of rotation, back in through, or a little bit more
on the lead side. Little more open coming through
but not a lot of good players are massive hip turn going back
and then not much. Much of impact.
You just don't see it with good players.
So like you would get, you've got to at least be able to match
(14:02):
the hip turn back going through.Yeah, yeah, exactly.
No doubt about it. We've been well, I think we just
did a video on that. That was kind of an interesting
one just did we call it. I think just balancing out the
hip turn. This is question for me, really
like yo. So we are a lot of us, we all
have these, you know, we all have the, you know we all have
Force plates and stuff. Now for most of us most of us do
(14:24):
and you know, I got one of the Wayne Catalyst like 14 15 years
ago because of the PGA show and I found a lot of pivot.
I thought it would help you understand for that's the board
and all the 3D stuff you have. It was Prime more like what the
balanced plate is now. Yeah.
But it showed to me it was interesting because it would
show you could show an average at that point.
(14:46):
I've been, I'll seat you some good Juniors.
But like, I was teaching a lot of icy chill out of jobs, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're everything.
Right. Could show them where the pivot
stop. Right, like where the motion
stopped, and they started back it up and I thought that was
helpful. But so, but now with these
safety measures lateral movement, you know how much
(15:06):
lateral movement DC. Good players.
Have to our players have based on your past, just like like
inches forward on the downswing,basically.
Yeah, I think the average aroundthe average.
If you like four to five inches,in fact, like a macro I think is
like four, four and a half the highwomen And that be plenty
(15:27):
like a Boo Weekley little bit higher than that.
But right now that right in thatrange I mean you get the
amateurs coming in and they're not a lot of them think they're
not allowed to go forward. So growing up an image of a tour
player. And saying, look this is where
you are. You're only one inch forward
with the center of your hips at impact on.
These guys are between four and five.
Another light bulb goes on pretty quick so you definitely
(15:49):
have to have some shift over there, but I think it depends on
out we were all brought up this teachers do.
I mean I know that you know for years I Didn't, you know I
wasn't that I didn't want it. I probably realistically just
get honest, didn't understand asmuch as I do now.
Yeah, but that's also where I think when you explained it
athletic terms, whereas like if you're throwing a ball there's
(16:10):
there's some weight shift into the front side before you
release your body through. Right?
You know, absolutely start thinking of it in terms of that
helps. Let's talk about your
development of the teacher. Everybody thinks of you as that,
but emotion golf. But yeah, you know, you came up
just like all of us like You work and I think that's why I've
always respected you. Like everybody knows there's not
(16:31):
a ton of the online people that I like very much right?
Yeah. I think most of them have ever
taught anybody, dried? They just, yeah, but a butt up
out there, but you have and I think that's why I've always
gravitated and respected and liked you.
And we've always been friends because you before you went and
did online and athletic motion, gaulke taught real golfers, real
(16:51):
people, and you for making time right now, I've always had that.
Idea, I said that Brady rigs oneside.
Like if you're going to be a great teacher, I would think you
would have made one person. Really good at one point in your
life. Ha ha.
Yeah, I was too kind of proofs in the pudding in there.
I mean, if you hadn't cranked out, anybody that's good, that
would question that. There's no doubt.
(17:13):
How did you come up? Take us through your journey,
I'm from Maine. So not real long golf season but
I always like enamored with it, it's all I could think about
24/7. So I was a pretty good little
Junior player I played in high school Zenda.
Being a good player and I got hurt my senior year playing
baseball and like a herniated disc.
(17:33):
So went to college and tried to play of just was always hurt and
then after school I decided you know I got a degree in finance,
didn't really feel like using itso I was still wanting to be
around the game and the local golf course here in Maine gave
me the teaching job 20 years ago, I guess.
So I'm 43 now is I was, you know, just started.
(17:54):
They just said, go ahead teach the junior Camp.
So what Ever was you wanted to do so, I started there and then
started teaching in Florida in the winter.
As I did that for 13 years. I drive my Honda Civic from
Florida to Maine every summer and come up here and teach us at
the Country Club here in Stonington.
And then got a nice break to work for David Toms over in
(18:16):
Louisiana, and I worked there for seven years.
And then just recently, you know, I was doing the athletic
motion golfing while still holding a job at the David Toms
Academy. I was the director.
Charging for David and just recently, January, I think
fifth. I packed up.
And then, you know, AMG took offto the point where it just
didn't make sense of do anythingelse anymore.
So I'm full time athletic motiongolf now with Mike in
(18:39):
Cartersville Georgia. And right, it allows me to kind
of do that you work on that evenmore now.
So hopefully that thing keeps growing at the clip it's been
going. But that's kind of my story.
Just kind of tried to learn fromeverybody over the years.
Couldn't guys like you, you know, took a lot of Lessons with
a lot of I always thought it would be cool to just go take
(19:00):
lessons with good teachers. So I've worked on my own game
with a lot of good teachers overthe years and you just pick up
things here and there have been some of your bigger teaching
influences who have been so manypeople that you know change the
way you think about things and yeah God it's been quite a few I
think I spent some time working for Garrett Gilcrest for a
(19:20):
little while. I thought he was really good so
he was a great teacher and a great motivator getting you
know, people that Themselves. I think that was the biggest
thing I learned from him. He was unbelievable at that.
And then I spent a lot of time around Sean Foley when I was at
Orange County National teaching on my own there in Florida.
He was gracious. You know, I was no but I mean I
was just kind of hanging around him and he said he met time.
(19:42):
You want to watch you teach. Go ahead.
So I'm thankful for that and then guys like you I've learned
a lot from Brian. Manziel over the years.
I've learned a lot from even nowScott Hamilton.
I mean is deaf and dumb, you were a teacher.
You know, the last couple months, you know, I've been
there for six months now I've learned a lot just being around
Sky he teaches a lot of great players and the way he goes
(20:05):
about doing that it just kind ofadded to my.
I guess you're teaching repertoire.
You just kind of learn more stuff everyday and not the best
to me. That's what it's always been
about. Trying to find the best people
and just keep learning from themand watch what they do.
You might not even agree with everything they do, but they
will probably be one or two things that you can add to what
you're doing and make you a better teacher.
So I'm still trying to learn howI feel.
(20:26):
Like you probably are it's like the more you know the more you
realize you don't know. So you mentioned that your board
agrees start teaching your 23. Here's another, this is a great
lesson for like we get lots of young teachers that listen to
this podcast and they still do message me on Instagram or
whatever you know, and their zombie go mentoring.
I think we need to do a better job of helping those coming up
(20:48):
behind us and I think so many teachers are so territorial and
they get in these pits and contests over terminology and
stuff. And, you know, Oh, it has, but
like you've been teaching 20 years and you just got
recognized as one of golf magazine's top 100 DJs and
people can argue the validity ofthose lists, but I think in our
business, it's still a nice thing to be recognized by your
(21:11):
peers, and I have, but it's a great lesson there.
Like, you've been doing it for 20 years, and like, it's a
lesson that like when you've been teaching for six, seven,
eight years, nine years and you haven't success.
Like, it doesn't automatically mean that everybody should think
of the greatest. You're in the world right there
still a long way to go. And I think that's, you know,
and we got a lot of great young teachers.
(21:32):
But man, the road to becoming a really good teacher to be.
And some of the things that go along with that about it takes a
while. You've just got to teach a
tunnel Essence, I think that might be the thing.
A lot of them. I noticed, like, it just don't
get enough reps in like, you know, as well as I do.
I mean, you just have to teach so many lessons to get really
good at your craft, and if you have an opportunity to work,
(21:56):
Where where you can teach a lot of lessons?
Yes, you know even if you're notgetting paid that much at first,
just get tons and tons of reps in with terrible players.
Good players beginners. The more lessons you give you
just start getting you get good at it, right?
If you have any ability at all, you'll get pretty good at it and
eventually you'll get recognizing, you know, you don't
(22:19):
want to go into the business thinking that.
That's what you need to do it, the awards and accolades, you
know, they come to you just wrong.
You just gotta keep putting yourhead down every day and working.
It's a lot, a lot of work. I love that guy had a teacher
last year or your course they reached out and said it got the
teach it a few years like hey what do I need to do?
What do you think I need to do better.
(22:40):
If I was trying to get on like the golf bags and Golf Digest
was like movement. First of all you got to teach
your I am giving this is a long road.
Yeah, right. And like you my best break was I
got a I got a job teaching. Hey Johnson and Wayne Flint
hired Mia Santa Destin Beach Resort where I had access to
just a bunch of Resort guests. Perfect.
(23:01):
You can meet a lot of people right, you know, and maybe not
every lesson was a different type of person like you have a
businesswoman who was just learning to play.
And then you'd have, you know, some guy who thought he was
played better than he was and then you had an engineer, you
know, it's like a mix of your always.
You never do what you're going to get and you had a, you had a
(23:23):
figured out and then the resort guests, he wanted to have fun,
he had You know, it's funny about that, you know, that
Resort teaching this whole thingon his own because those people
aren't there to do an overhaul. They want to go play golf and
hit it straight in an hour. So yes, that that's part of it
too. Is like high, who's standing in
(23:43):
front of me? What do they want out of this
lesson? And I'm not doing a complete
overhaul here? What's the low-hanging fruit?
That I can give them that they could actually do on the golf
course and they're going to Raveabout it.
That I helped them shoot their best scorer and then you know
and then you move along and you might end up at a country club
with a bunch of good players. And you better figure out quick
that, you know, these guys are already pretty good and they lot
(24:05):
of these guys have Corky swings.You're not going to do an
overhaul on them, but you might need to get a little more
technical with them. It's a balancing act just like,
you know, as well as I do. You have to get really good at
morphine yourself to help the person that standing in front of
you and asking enough questions to know exactly what they want.
You know, I always tell them, they said, I always, I guess the
(24:26):
older Do I tell more of these stories about things I learned
from my mentor and, you know, had a breakfast day and know
like what he used to. Always tell me, I think you'll
like this. He used to always tell me that
with us to a new student come, he would go ahead and answer and
fix what the students thought was the problem first, because
then if you did that, they buy in, and they've listened to.
Yeah, no, I think that's great. Hey bro.
(24:46):
That that is, that is good. Where is no doubt?
Everything, you know, at first like, they'll come in and say
what they think, but then you start telling them what you
think. You know that, like that's like
you're here and then, if it doesn't work right away, I think
you lose them, right? Where is it here?
Next, you can show them that youcan fix and understand what they
(25:08):
think is wrong. Then they know, you know what
you're doing. I think they're more willing to
buy into you for the process, but I think we all know, you get
really better over a long periodof time.
It takes, it's a journey and it takes a process.
But like I agree with you. I said I think that it's I think
like teaching at a resort was great for me because I quit.
Said, like you like they're, they're all they're getting
(25:29):
ready to go out and play 18 holes with their buddies and
they're taking a lesson and madea few screw them up and they're
worse and nobody, right? Absolutely.
Absolutely. And it's the same way, like,
let's say you're going into a new time.
I like, I went into Tree Port, Louisiana, right?
Obviously, I had David Toms nameback in me, which help, but if
(25:51):
you go into that town, which hada lot of good players and you
screw a few of the good players,He's up in the first year.
You're out of business. You're three, you're done.
So I'm fortunate enough to last are almost eight years so you
know, but if you would, if I would have went in there and
gave a bad lesson, a few bad lessons to the wrong players.
Not knowing I was doing, you aretoast and to go back on what you
(26:14):
said about giving people, you know, fix him up.
This is the kind of unrelated story but I need to tell it
because it's funny. So I've only gotten one.
I've only got one bad review in my whole like like I spent Eight
years of David Toms Academy, right?
We had a system where they couldgo and leave a review and over
those eight years. I got one bad review.
(26:34):
And when I was there, I taught, and I did a lot of Club fitting
was like, you know, I think that's important teacher.
You got to know how to do something about credit.
I mean, this is the tool that the golfers use.
So the guy came in for a confident and not a good golf
swing, right? I mean, we're sitting there, I'm
trying to get this guy just to get a shot on the middle of
face, so I could figure out whathe needed for clubs me.
(26:55):
But what 10 15 minutes. It's in.
He had hit one close to the face.
I said, amen, I'm gonna do you afavor.
I'm going to be a favor. I'm going to save you some money
today. I'm not going to sell you golf
clubs, but I'm going to give youa.
I'm gonna give you a lesson, okay?
And I'm gonna have you come backon me.
No, charge. And we'll do a fitting once you
fix just one thing. And he's like 15 degrees - Pub
(27:15):
passed on track and easily straight.
Over the top, the guy because I didn't give him what he wanted.
He went left me, my only bad review I've ever had eight
years, you mean gross today on that thing.
You doing them a service, but what was the need to give people
what they want? I told my assistant products are
like, do two people come in. Just give them what they want.
(27:37):
Specially if it's golf clubs. Exactly.
I mean, I think you, but I thinkthat's the lesson for teachers
like learn to fix an answer. The question of what the
student. Exactly.
Exactly. And I think we sometimes need
our teachers, make this assumption that every person
coming in front of him, is goingto want what We would want to
want as a golfer and yes, you know, I mean, sometimes the
(28:01):
player doesn't care if they score better, they just want to
hit it harder right now. That is such a good point,
though. I'm a guy were, like, I start
with every person and I would just assume you want to get your
handicap as low as you can, to become the best player.
But like I always talk to because sometimes they don't
care about man. That makes a great plan member
years ago. I think I was sitting with, I
(28:22):
forget who I was with. It was years ago, someone who
had worked Who worked for Golf Digest, I wasn't even really
associate with the magazine. At that point I hadn't been on
any of their list and I said, well what if people you know,
you guys do these surveys, what do people want, you know, in a
golf lesson and what do they, what do they want in their game?
He said I Far and Away, all theywant to do is hit the ball, more
(28:46):
solid. They don't care what they shoot.
They want to go out, hit the middle like they don't care if
they, he said, he said they would rather hit over every
dream and shoot 90 and thin In it and shanking around and shoot
79 or 80. And when he told me that that
kind of got my wheels turns, like these people just want to
hit it more solid. Yeah, even got here.
(29:06):
Just want to hit it. It's more fun, 100%.
So to if you get them, hitting it more solid.
Hmm, which you obviously do and they buy into that then you get
the ability to coach them and teach them or how to score,
right? Absolutely.
Absolutely. Then there's a more open to The
(29:26):
other stuff you need to teach you.
Yeah, you know I mean I agree, Ithink he, I think part of what
we do is get them to develop a trust with us, then we can take
them where they need to go. And I think also in this world
like you're part of it where there's all this stuff on social
media, there's so much info so Ithink you got a car.
That's half my fault. Yeah, your time a bomb in your
(29:47):
ass wrong but I think it's, I think it's shortened the time
period. You've got to gain the students.
Trust me. Because they can go also look a
bunch of stuff up on Instagram. Find out if people are saying
the exact opposite or what else could work?
Yeah, that has, I think that hascome to the Forefront, the last
(30:09):
couple of years. You know, I think it's happened.
A lot with, I think it's happened.
A lot with our stuff like will put the data out there and it
might not job with what the teachers saying, they might show
one of our videos. So if that's happening to some
of you guys, I apologize about that.
But so, you know, we just put the data out there with in Is
what it is but I think you're right.
It's good for ya sir though. I have players come to me with
(30:31):
your videos, right? Yeah, yeah.
And then I've got to be able to explain either.
Yep, that's where we're going working towards.
And oh you know and I've had onemore like you know what, I never
thought of that drill, man. That's like that would actually
be great for you or I've said like here's why this wouldn't
work for you. Yeah exactly.
You got to be able to explain it.
(30:52):
Yeah, exactly. And the thing about that is
someone like you has Confidence enough stand there and tell them
exactly what they need. If they're you know as a teacher
I remember telling us this to mysister like you have to own
every single thing you say. Just this own, it don't be
wishy-washy with them because the more you can do that the
more they're going to buy into it and I think we teach tour
players that becomes even more important than as all my gosh.
(31:15):
So they are looked upon as I've looked back on one's where the
relationship ended or if I messed up and didn't do as good
a job, I think, you know, he whatever I think you get where
you're not as Probably maybe because stuff isn't, you know,
is it working? And a lot of times I think
sometimes stuff isn't working not because of the information,
but because of lots of other things going on around them and
(31:37):
distract you different things, but as teachers, I think we
always tend to look at it. Something's not working.
It's our fault exactly where they might be listening to
somebody else and you don't knowit or there's so many so many
things that could be happening, but you're right, you know,
especially around tour players. I mean if they sense any doubt
in your mind, And that relationships going to go south
(31:58):
and your captain and that's happened to all of us.
Yeah. And I think you're right like
there always is that the hardestpart you combat as his the
people around them, everybody chirping, right?
Everybody thinks I mean agents think they know more about
teaching husbands wives. It doesn't matter if LPGA PGA
friends, everybody thinks they know more about it.
(32:21):
Everybody's got an opinion as soon as somebody might is bad
and you're always battling that,I think that's the This part.
In fact, also I think it's important, stand your ground and
if it doesn't work it doesn't work.
You know. Exactly.
Right. You did the best you could do at
that point. They no doubt about it.
Sean this has been a blast man. We gotta catch up more often,
not known. Oh yeah.
I normally GA shows when I get to sit down and drink beer with
(32:42):
you through and my Sean web experience last year, hey we
gotta do it this year. I think we're going to be
alright in January. Yeah, I hope so.
Oh sobbing the only reason that go the PGA shows for the
cocktail party. He's so into that.
Yeah. But real quick, let everybody
know that we talked about it about how to find you, I mean,
(33:04):
great stuff out there that a great friend, your great teacher
and want people to know more about you appreciate you to tell
me everything. Yeah.
So you can find us at athletic motion golf.com, that's the
website you can book lessons on there.
Check out our online memberships, but a lot of people
find us through the YouTube and the Instagram channels.
So those are just athletic motion golf.
(33:24):
Both of them, you can find this give us The follow or subscribe
and you can kind of see what we're up to awesome stuff Shawn.
Take care, buddy. Enjoy small-time over the
holiday up in Maine and I'll talk with you soon.
Appreciate it brother. See ya.
All right. That's shown.
Web will catch you next week on the tour Coke.
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(01:05):
more prepared, the next tournament you're headed into.
We're on a mission to help golfers from all over the world,
achieve their goals by understanding what it actually
takes to play their best golf. We're talking with leading
instructors, researchers, and players themselves to find what
is actually working Hey, thanks for joining us today.
(01:33):
You are listening to one of our partner shows.
It is the tour coach podcast with Tony ruggero.
He has some phenomenal guests ontalking about teaching tour Pros
will have his players on, it's always a great show.
Today was another great episode want to share that with you here
on the gulf science side podcast.
Let's get into it. So here I am on the door.
(01:58):
Coach once again on the road, meand my dog Chip Shot headed down
to the keys for a holiday weekend and joined by my good
friend several years back. I tried to hire him but it was
too big and famous for me. Already at that point.
He's on underground stuff. Athletic motion golf obviously
just under great players and recently just been named as one
(02:19):
of golf magazine's top 100 teachers which is extremely well
deserve Sean web, what's up Shawn?
Hey man. Tony How's it going buddy?
It's going good. Go good.
You're on fire lots of good stuff over the last couple of
years you had you know I've beendoing the athletic motion golf
for a while now but over the last couple years it seems like
it's really exploded bound of this the right way to say it,
(02:41):
but kind of like mainstream, youknow, instead of just people
seeing it a little bit here and there seems like everybody knows
about it and for one I think it's a huge service to teachers
as well as just folks trying to get better at their game.
I appreciate that. Yeah, you know, it's like
everything else you do it for? If we do what we've been doing,
almost six, I think six years now and you do it for you know,
23 years and it doesn't seem like you're getting much
(03:03):
traction but I guess you don't realize how many people are
watching it and then yeah I guess well in the last couple
years and especially last year during covid everybody was home
trying to figure out their golf swing I guess.
And it just kind of really did explode during that time so
we're having fun with it. We're just going to keep kind of
moving forward and keep putting out videos and people are
enjoying them and hopefully theycontinue to do so.
(03:26):
You get the idea for athletic motion dogs and talk a little
bit about, you know, behind thatlike, you know, how do you
formulate this idea? Spend most the research of the
things that you come up with. Yeah.
So I've been wanting to do something on an internet for
years because I thought it was kind of a wide open space there
wasn't really anybody doing it. What I thought was the right way
(03:48):
which is kind of use all this technology and kind of have a
data-driven approach. Like hey let's look at what all
the good players do and try to figure out some of the things
that they A do that average players can do, you don't have
to be Dusty Johnson, to kind of make the movements that were
talking about. And I thought about it for years
and years. But, you know, I was at a
conference sitting down and my business partner.
(04:08):
Now, Mike granato was sitting there and he was wanting to do
something similar. I said, well, maybe we should
just try to do it together. Do you always needs?
You get a couple guys, same kindof ideas and passion for
something, it's always easier todo.
So we both played Sports growingup and I felt like over the
years, you know, my swing when Iwas, you know, I was growing up
was a certain way. I was a good athlete and a good
(04:30):
ball strikes. And I think over the years I
almost got caught out of it because I think a lot of times,
you know you start working on too many physicians in this
dying and getting these static kind of looking in the mirror
all the time. Trying to figure stuff out and I
had lost that athleticism some take a little bit, maybe we
should do something try to get people to swing more like an
athlete, you know, and it would hopefully resonate with, like,
people that played other sports and that's kind of all started.
(04:53):
And we just started putting out a few Leo's here and there and
it just started growing the thought of it resonated with
people and it's been going strong since I like a lot of the
ideas especially around athletic, the what you just
talked about you, I do a lot of a lot of my struggles and I do
and I've learned a lot from Colby to ye trainer out onto her
(05:16):
new strains of two athletes, right?
Like exact various knowledge in the reason.
So it's similar like it was a big influence on me because I
started to see how Some of thesedrills and exercises with bands
and different things were so easily transferred to the golf
swing, you know, some of these exercises and I found that
(05:36):
people had an easier time applying some of these thoughts
of the golf swing of you, put itin terms, and you put it in
training that is morath like an athletic drill rather than you
just hand them a golf club and asked him to go to a spotter, to
do a move. So I totally get where you're
coming from that. I think the, I think that's why
I have this. To me, it's a big help to
(05:59):
recreational golfers. If you can make it more athletic
because to me, it's in more in terms and feels and things that
they probably done in other things in their life coming up.
Exactly. And you know we're always asking
people in lessons. Hey did you play other sports
and the waubansee yet played tennis?
I played baseball and you know immediately we try to find drill
(06:20):
that kind of integrates what they already did in the past
with other sports and once you That the light bulb kind of goes
on, they almost say wow, I didn't even know I was allowed
to do that because it had been alot of times they're taught out
of that because of all the over the years, you know, you've been
teaching a long time, you know, there was a time when it was
really position and then there'sa place for positional base
(06:43):
construction and I teach that way sometimes put on who's
standing in front of me. But you tend to get away from
the overall idea that the swing is one big flowing motion,
right? And when you start piecing it up
too much, it removes a lot of the athleticism that that may
have had from other sports that could help them with golf.
So, just that thought process, Ithink like you said, bring it to
(07:05):
the lesson T using some of theseexercises and different motion
drills, it really does help the average guy.
Well, I think that, you know, like you're talking about
position driven and we all I think the beauty and one of the
reasons you're a great teachers,teach the guy in front of you
and whatever they need is what you're going to give them right
and is exactly right. You know what I taught
(07:27):
yesterday? I taught you know, in
Montgomery, Alabama. And I taught a guy that you've
been going to a, you know, one of these people that, you know,
a young guy which would be we'renot young anymore.
But like I think all of us go through phases as teachers where
we get onto something that we teach everybody to do that,
right? Yes.
And you know, and here was a guywho was, you know, mean he had
(07:49):
his grip, strong, trying to bow.It area guy.
That and the guy hit the, you know, but he didn't have any
pivot, right. And Up.
And he was like, man, this is like he's got everybody trying
to do this and I was like, well,you know, I think that that's a
phase that teachers go through and his they go through where
they, you know, they they hook on something, they try to teach
everybody the same thing. And one thing I love about your
(08:12):
teaching is the athletic motion gospel.
He one part of what you do, but you teach people in front and
you give the person in front of you, what she denied to me,
that's the mark of what a reallygood teacher.
A great teacher, is we all have preferences?
He got to make the person in front of you better exactly and
it's funny say that we have people comment on the YouTube
(08:33):
stuff a lot or sometimes a you know that's all great but only
Dustin Johnson could do it and you know we try to find the
commonalities in these great players that everybody can apply
like you said okay maybe you if you don't have a good pivot
you're not going to be able to play with that super strong grip
and a boat left wrist or both. So let's find something that
(08:55):
works for you that Chimneys Windows, right?
As long as what you're doing, kind of fits in these functional
windows or what what makes the ball fly straight.
We're okay with it. I know you are too because
everybody's going to swing it a little bit different.
Everybody's different sizes, different arm lengths.
They can turn different rates and amounts.
So let's find what works for theperson standing in front of us,
(09:17):
gets the ball, flying straight and kind of is within certain
parameters. I think that's the way that for
me, and I think you'll probably agree.
That's the best way to go. About teaching golf.
Not everybody's going to do it exactly the same.
So when you talk about the curious about this we talk about
commonalities, I'm going to poselike this is my you know like
I've just had this thought I don't know like motion stuff
(09:39):
that I say I don't have any scientific back up.
Yeah but like I always look at, you know I'm a big pivot
teacher, right? I teach a lot of it and I've
always thought that as you go for like a 20 handicapper to a
tour player that age, they keep getting better.
Of the pivot keeps getting better and to me the worst, the
player generally, the worst of pivot is I know there's outliers
(10:03):
to that, right? I mean, I know, this guy's that
right. But like in general I found that
and always been my kind of theory or hypothesis.
Like when I develop a young player like I like to get them
real balanced and then deliveredand then develop the pivot and I
know that all the research showsus, everybody if it's different,
some people get more pressure behind it some less but develop
(10:25):
the pivot. Which is best for them early.
And then kind of at the other stuff that's just kind of how
I've done things that. I mean I've made a couple
people. Okay.
But yeah, right. So like when you look at the
commonalities of what good players do, I'm curious what do
you find? Are couldn't are some common
out, you know, over the years. I guess we picked a few.
We did even did a golf.com article last year.
(10:47):
I think it was the most read article of the year but you
know, one of them we like to seeis making sure like, let's just
start with like the backswing stuff.
Common, I was a great players. The great players don't overly
bend the trail arm at the top. So if you're right-handed, we
don't like to see it. Like let's say 120 degrees would
be too bad. We see all the guys that we have
(11:08):
in our gear system. We have a lot, we have like 900
million and earnings combined around 90 degrees.
I think macro is, Elise would like 55.
So, just off the top, my head, that would be one of the
commonalities. Another one would be, we like to
see a little bit of a shift off the ball.
The first car, the backswing. So those kind of Twisting the
hips toward the target, we just don't see it.
(11:29):
In great players. What kind of stuff are you
thinking? Of know?
The trail are more the right armof a golfer is, was that
interesting to me? I never thought about it in
terms of that and I can, I'm notsaying I haven't acted players
that don't do this. Yeah.
Graph. This and that there's not
exceptions and that's like to meet where the people are by
gets in a pissing contest. Like you go through the handles
(11:51):
golf, if you can find an exception to anything and you'll
say, right. Absolutely.
Because of the best players in the world and that there and
they're great. But like, that's interesting to
me because I like, in this goes back to like your old golf
machine days. But like, your right arm trying
to feel like it's stretching your left going back, and your
percent 100 percent. And I think this is just me,
(12:14):
like, we're good players. Like, you know, you can get, if
I can get them to keep that arm.Feel like it's got some
structure and stretch, going back in the arm, a little more
in front of them. I'm not Big arms, deep behind
ya. And I know I've had players that
are good that do that. But I'm saying like we're
talking about like we had a person in front of us.
(12:36):
You know, what are things that we see that are common in good
ball Strikers and I know that one thing.
If you watch old Golf Channel stuff that you've done stuff on
this, you know, when Butch and all his success.
I know, one of the things he's tried to do is just to get
people wide and in front of themand I think a lot of that is
because when people do that, I think I'm just guessing here,
but I also think that would havegood Player tries to keep it
(12:57):
wide and in front of them they turn more absolutely, there's no
doubt about it and I'm just thinking of a top, my head, some
pivot oriented stuff know, a lotof what we're seeing lately.
We talked about, you know, balance in a swing or a lot of
the great ball Striker, be measured a very balanced with
their hip turn. Like let's say, they have 40.
Let's say, for example, 45 degrees at the top there around
(13:19):
at 45 degree range, it impacts very balanced, kind of rotation.
And a lot of times when we see aThursday.
Try to make this massive hip turn on the backswing but let's
say they do 6570, which we've seen in the 3D system of guys
coming in. Well, you've only got, you know,
point two seconds to hit the ball and they're trying to get
open from there and they don't have enough time.
(13:41):
So just on this pivot idea and we see that a lot to just a
balance, kind of rotation, back in through, or a little bit more
on the lead side. Little more open coming through
but not a lot of good players are massive hip turn going back
and then not much. Much of impact.
You just don't see it with good players.
So like you would get, you've got to at least be able to match
(14:02):
the hip turn back going through.Yeah, yeah, exactly.
No doubt about it. We've been well, I think we just
did a video on that. That was kind of an interesting
one just did we call it. I think just balancing out the
hip turn. This is question for me, really
like yo. So we are a lot of us, we all
have these, you know, we all have the, you know we all have
Force plates and stuff. Now for most of us most of us do
(14:24):
and you know, I got one of the Wayne Catalyst like 14 15 years
ago because of the PGA show and I found a lot of pivot.
I thought it would help you understand for that's the board
and all the 3D stuff you have. It was Prime more like what the
balanced plate is now. Yeah.
But it showed to me it was interesting because it would
show you could show an average at that point.
(14:46):
I've been, I'll seat you some good Juniors.
But like, I was teaching a lot of icy chill out of jobs, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're everything.
Right. Could show them where the pivot
stop. Right, like where the motion
stopped, and they started back it up and I thought that was
helpful. But so, but now with these
safety measures lateral movement, you know how much
(15:06):
lateral movement DC. Good players.
Have to our players have based on your past, just like like
inches forward on the downswing,basically.
Yeah, I think the average aroundthe average.
If you like four to five inches,in fact, like a macro I think is
like four, four and a half the highwomen And that be plenty
(15:27):
like a Boo Weekley little bit higher than that.
But right now that right in thatrange I mean you get the
amateurs coming in and they're not a lot of them think they're
not allowed to go forward. So growing up an image of a tour
player. And saying, look this is where
you are. You're only one inch forward
with the center of your hips at impact on.
These guys are between four and five.
Another light bulb goes on pretty quick so you definitely
(15:49):
have to have some shift over there, but I think it depends on
out we were all brought up this teachers do.
I mean I know that you know for years I Didn't, you know I
wasn't that I didn't want it. I probably realistically just
get honest, didn't understand asmuch as I do now.
Yeah, but that's also where I think when you explained it
athletic terms, whereas like if you're throwing a ball there's
(16:10):
there's some weight shift into the front side before you
release your body through. Right?
You know, absolutely start thinking of it in terms of that
helps. Let's talk about your
development of the teacher. Everybody thinks of you as that,
but emotion golf. But yeah, you know, you came up
just like all of us like You work and I think that's why I've
always respected you. Like everybody knows there's not
(16:31):
a ton of the online people that I like very much right?
Yeah. I think most of them have ever
taught anybody, dried? They just, yeah, but a butt up
out there, but you have and I think that's why I've always
gravitated and respected and liked you.
And we've always been friends because you before you went and
did online and athletic motion, gaulke taught real golfers, real
(16:51):
people, and you for making time right now, I've always had that.
Idea, I said that Brady rigs oneside.
Like if you're going to be a great teacher, I would think you
would have made one person. Really good at one point in your
life. Ha ha.
Yeah, I was too kind of proofs in the pudding in there.
I mean, if you hadn't cranked out, anybody that's good, that
would question that. There's no doubt.
(17:13):
How did you come up? Take us through your journey,
I'm from Maine. So not real long golf season but
I always like enamored with it, it's all I could think about
24/7. So I was a pretty good little
Junior player I played in high school Zenda.
Being a good player and I got hurt my senior year playing
baseball and like a herniated disc.
(17:33):
So went to college and tried to play of just was always hurt and
then after school I decided you know I got a degree in finance,
didn't really feel like using itso I was still wanting to be
around the game and the local golf course here in Maine gave
me the teaching job 20 years ago, I guess.
So I'm 43 now is I was, you know, just started.
(17:54):
They just said, go ahead teach the junior Camp.
So what Ever was you wanted to do so, I started there and then
started teaching in Florida in the winter.
As I did that for 13 years. I drive my Honda Civic from
Florida to Maine every summer and come up here and teach us at
the Country Club here in Stonington.
And then got a nice break to work for David Toms over in
(18:16):
Louisiana, and I worked there for seven years.
And then just recently, you know, I was doing the athletic
motion golfing while still holding a job at the David Toms
Academy. I was the director.
Charging for David and just recently, January, I think
fifth. I packed up.
And then, you know, AMG took offto the point where it just
didn't make sense of do anythingelse anymore.
So I'm full time athletic motiongolf now with Mike in
(18:39):
Cartersville Georgia. And right, it allows me to kind
of do that you work on that evenmore now.
So hopefully that thing keeps growing at the clip it's been
going. But that's kind of my story.
Just kind of tried to learn fromeverybody over the years.
Couldn't guys like you, you know, took a lot of Lessons with
a lot of I always thought it would be cool to just go take
(19:00):
lessons with good teachers. So I've worked on my own game
with a lot of good teachers overthe years and you just pick up
things here and there have been some of your bigger teaching
influences who have been so manypeople that you know change the
way you think about things and yeah God it's been quite a few I
think I spent some time working for Garrett Gilcrest for a
(19:20):
little while. I thought he was really good so
he was a great teacher and a great motivator getting you
know, people that Themselves. I think that was the biggest
thing I learned from him. He was unbelievable at that.
And then I spent a lot of time around Sean Foley when I was at
Orange County National teaching on my own there in Florida.
He was gracious. You know, I was no but I mean I
was just kind of hanging around him and he said he met time.
(19:42):
You want to watch you teach. Go ahead.
So I'm thankful for that and then guys like you I've learned
a lot from Brian. Manziel over the years.
I've learned a lot from even nowScott Hamilton.
I mean is deaf and dumb, you were a teacher.
You know, the last couple months, you know, I've been
there for six months now I've learned a lot just being around
Sky he teaches a lot of great players and the way he goes
(20:05):
about doing that it just kind ofadded to my.
I guess you're teaching repertoire.
You just kind of learn more stuff everyday and not the best
to me. That's what it's always been
about. Trying to find the best people
and just keep learning from themand watch what they do.
You might not even agree with everything they do, but they
will probably be one or two things that you can add to what
you're doing and make you a better teacher.
So I'm still trying to learn howI feel.
(20:26):
Like you probably are it's like the more you know the more you
realize you don't know. So you mentioned that your board
agrees start teaching your 23. Here's another, this is a great
lesson for like we get lots of young teachers that listen to
this podcast and they still do message me on Instagram or
whatever you know, and their zombie go mentoring.
I think we need to do a better job of helping those coming up
(20:48):
behind us and I think so many teachers are so territorial and
they get in these pits and contests over terminology and
stuff. And, you know, Oh, it has, but
like you've been teaching 20 years and you just got
recognized as one of golf magazine's top 100 DJs and
people can argue the validity ofthose lists, but I think in our
business, it's still a nice thing to be recognized by your
(21:11):
peers, and I have, but it's a great lesson there.
Like, you've been doing it for 20 years, and like, it's a
lesson that like when you've been teaching for six, seven,
eight years, nine years and you haven't success.
Like, it doesn't automatically mean that everybody should think
of the greatest. You're in the world right there
still a long way to go. And I think that's, you know,
and we got a lot of great young teachers.
(21:32):
But man, the road to becoming a really good teacher to be.
And some of the things that go along with that about it takes a
while. You've just got to teach a
tunnel Essence, I think that might be the thing.
A lot of them. I noticed, like, it just don't
get enough reps in like, you know, as well as I do.
I mean, you just have to teach so many lessons to get really
good at your craft, and if you have an opportunity to work,
(21:56):
Where where you can teach a lot of lessons?
Yes, you know even if you're notgetting paid that much at first,
just get tons and tons of reps in with terrible players.
Good players beginners. The more lessons you give you
just start getting you get good at it, right?
If you have any ability at all, you'll get pretty good at it and
eventually you'll get recognizing, you know, you don't
(22:19):
want to go into the business thinking that.
That's what you need to do it, the awards and accolades, you
know, they come to you just wrong.
You just gotta keep putting yourhead down every day and working.
It's a lot, a lot of work. I love that guy had a teacher
last year or your course they reached out and said it got the
teach it a few years like hey what do I need to do?
What do you think I need to do better.
(22:40):
If I was trying to get on like the golf bags and Golf Digest
was like movement. First of all you got to teach
your I am giving this is a long road.
Yeah, right. And like you my best break was I
got a I got a job teaching. Hey Johnson and Wayne Flint
hired Mia Santa Destin Beach Resort where I had access to
just a bunch of Resort guests. Perfect.
(23:01):
You can meet a lot of people right, you know, and maybe not
every lesson was a different type of person like you have a
businesswoman who was just learning to play.
And then you'd have, you know, some guy who thought he was
played better than he was and then you had an engineer, you
know, it's like a mix of your always.
You never do what you're going to get and you had a, you had a
(23:23):
figured out and then the resort guests, he wanted to have fun,
he had You know, it's funny about that, you know, that
Resort teaching this whole thingon his own because those people
aren't there to do an overhaul. They want to go play golf and
hit it straight in an hour. So yes, that that's part of it
too. Is like high, who's standing in
(23:43):
front of me? What do they want out of this
lesson? And I'm not doing a complete
overhaul here? What's the low-hanging fruit?
That I can give them that they could actually do on the golf
course and they're going to Raveabout it.
That I helped them shoot their best scorer and then you know
and then you move along and you might end up at a country club
with a bunch of good players. And you better figure out quick
that, you know, these guys are already pretty good and they lot
(24:05):
of these guys have Corky swings.You're not going to do an
overhaul on them, but you might need to get a little more
technical with them. It's a balancing act just like,
you know, as well as I do. You have to get really good at
morphine yourself to help the person that standing in front of
you and asking enough questions to know exactly what they want.
You know, I always tell them, they said, I always, I guess the
(24:26):
older Do I tell more of these stories about things I learned
from my mentor and, you know, had a breakfast day and know
like what he used to. Always tell me, I think you'll
like this. He used to always tell me that
with us to a new student come, he would go ahead and answer and
fix what the students thought was the problem first, because
then if you did that, they buy in, and they've listened to.
Yeah, no, I think that's great. Hey bro.
(24:46):
That that is, that is good. Where is no doubt?
Everything, you know, at first like, they'll come in and say
what they think, but then you start telling them what you
think. You know that, like that's like
you're here and then, if it doesn't work right away, I think
you lose them, right? Where is it here?
Next, you can show them that youcan fix and understand what they
(25:08):
think is wrong. Then they know, you know what
you're doing. I think they're more willing to
buy into you for the process, but I think we all know, you get
really better over a long periodof time.
It takes, it's a journey and it takes a process.
But like I agree with you. I said I think that it's I think
like teaching at a resort was great for me because I quit.
Said, like you like they're, they're all they're getting
(25:29):
ready to go out and play 18 holes with their buddies and
they're taking a lesson and madea few screw them up and they're
worse and nobody, right? Absolutely.
Absolutely. And it's the same way, like,
let's say you're going into a new time.
I like, I went into Tree Port, Louisiana, right?
Obviously, I had David Toms nameback in me, which help, but if
(25:51):
you go into that town, which hada lot of good players and you
screw a few of the good players,He's up in the first year.
You're out of business. You're three, you're done.
So I'm fortunate enough to last are almost eight years so you
know, but if you would, if I would have went in there and
gave a bad lesson, a few bad lessons to the wrong players.
Not knowing I was doing, you aretoast and to go back on what you
(26:14):
said about giving people, you know, fix him up.
This is the kind of unrelated story but I need to tell it
because it's funny. So I've only gotten one.
I've only got one bad review in my whole like like I spent Eight
years of David Toms Academy, right?
We had a system where they couldgo and leave a review and over
those eight years. I got one bad review.
(26:34):
And when I was there, I taught, and I did a lot of Club fitting
was like, you know, I think that's important teacher.
You got to know how to do something about credit.
I mean, this is the tool that the golfers use.
So the guy came in for a confident and not a good golf
swing, right? I mean, we're sitting there, I'm
trying to get this guy just to get a shot on the middle of
face, so I could figure out whathe needed for clubs me.
(26:55):
But what 10 15 minutes. It's in.
He had hit one close to the face.
I said, amen, I'm gonna do you afavor.
I'm going to be a favor. I'm going to save you some money
today. I'm not going to sell you golf
clubs, but I'm going to give youa.
I'm gonna give you a lesson, okay?
And I'm gonna have you come backon me.
No, charge. And we'll do a fitting once you
fix just one thing. And he's like 15 degrees - Pub
(27:15):
passed on track and easily straight.
Over the top, the guy because I didn't give him what he wanted.
He went left me, my only bad review I've ever had eight
years, you mean gross today on that thing.
You doing them a service, but what was the need to give people
what they want? I told my assistant products are
like, do two people come in. Just give them what they want.
(27:37):
Specially if it's golf clubs. Exactly.
I mean, I think you, but I thinkthat's the lesson for teachers
like learn to fix an answer. The question of what the
student. Exactly.
Exactly. And I think we sometimes need
our teachers, make this assumption that every person
coming in front of him, is goingto want what We would want to
want as a golfer and yes, you know, I mean, sometimes the
(28:01):
player doesn't care if they score better, they just want to
hit it harder right now. That is such a good point,
though. I'm a guy were, like, I start
with every person and I would just assume you want to get your
handicap as low as you can, to become the best player.
But like I always talk to because sometimes they don't
care about man. That makes a great plan member
years ago. I think I was sitting with, I
(28:22):
forget who I was with. It was years ago, someone who
had worked Who worked for Golf Digest, I wasn't even really
associate with the magazine. At that point I hadn't been on
any of their list and I said, well what if people you know,
you guys do these surveys, what do people want, you know, in a
golf lesson and what do they, what do they want in their game?
He said I Far and Away, all theywant to do is hit the ball, more
(28:46):
solid. They don't care what they shoot.
They want to go out, hit the middle like they don't care if
they, he said, he said they would rather hit over every
dream and shoot 90 and thin In it and shanking around and shoot
79 or 80. And when he told me that that
kind of got my wheels turns, like these people just want to
hit it more solid. Yeah, even got here.
(29:06):
Just want to hit it. It's more fun, 100%.
So to if you get them, hitting it more solid.
Hmm, which you obviously do and they buy into that then you get
the ability to coach them and teach them or how to score,
right? Absolutely.
Absolutely. Then there's a more open to The
(29:26):
other stuff you need to teach you.
Yeah, you know I mean I agree, Ithink he, I think part of what
we do is get them to develop a trust with us, then we can take
them where they need to go. And I think also in this world
like you're part of it where there's all this stuff on social
media, there's so much info so Ithink you got a car.
That's half my fault. Yeah, your time a bomb in your
(29:47):
ass wrong but I think it's, I think it's shortened the time
period. You've got to gain the students.
Trust me. Because they can go also look a
bunch of stuff up on Instagram. Find out if people are saying
the exact opposite or what else could work?
Yeah, that has, I think that hascome to the Forefront, the last
(30:09):
couple of years. You know, I think it's happened.
A lot with, I think it's happened.
A lot with our stuff like will put the data out there and it
might not job with what the teachers saying, they might show
one of our videos. So if that's happening to some
of you guys, I apologize about that.
But so, you know, we just put the data out there with in Is
what it is but I think you're right.
It's good for ya sir though. I have players come to me with
(30:31):
your videos, right? Yeah, yeah.
And then I've got to be able to explain either.
Yep, that's where we're going working towards.
And oh you know and I've had onemore like you know what, I never
thought of that drill, man. That's like that would actually
be great for you or I've said like here's why this wouldn't
work for you. Yeah exactly.
You got to be able to explain it.
(30:52):
Yeah, exactly. And the thing about that is
someone like you has Confidence enough stand there and tell them
exactly what they need. If they're you know as a teacher
I remember telling us this to mysister like you have to own
every single thing you say. Just this own, it don't be
wishy-washy with them because the more you can do that the
more they're going to buy into it and I think we teach tour
players that becomes even more important than as all my gosh.
(31:15):
So they are looked upon as I've looked back on one's where the
relationship ended or if I messed up and didn't do as good
a job, I think, you know, he whatever I think you get where
you're not as Probably maybe because stuff isn't, you know,
is it working? And a lot of times I think
sometimes stuff isn't working not because of the information,
but because of lots of other things going on around them and
(31:37):
distract you different things, but as teachers, I think we
always tend to look at it. Something's not working.
It's our fault exactly where they might be listening to
somebody else and you don't knowit or there's so many so many
things that could be happening, but you're right, you know,
especially around tour players. I mean if they sense any doubt
in your mind, And that relationships going to go south
(31:58):
and your captain and that's happened to all of us.
Yeah. And I think you're right like
there always is that the hardestpart you combat as his the
people around them, everybody chirping, right?
Everybody thinks I mean agents think they know more about
teaching husbands wives. It doesn't matter if LPGA PGA
friends, everybody thinks they know more about it.
(32:21):
Everybody's got an opinion as soon as somebody might is bad
and you're always battling that,I think that's the This part.
In fact, also I think it's important, stand your ground and
if it doesn't work it doesn't work.
You know. Exactly.
Right. You did the best you could do at
that point. They no doubt about it.
Sean this has been a blast man. We gotta catch up more often,
not known. Oh yeah.
I normally GA shows when I get to sit down and drink beer with
(32:42):
you through and my Sean web experience last year, hey we
gotta do it this year. I think we're going to be
alright in January. Yeah, I hope so.
Oh sobbing the only reason that go the PGA shows for the
cocktail party. He's so into that.
Yeah. But real quick, let everybody
know that we talked about it about how to find you, I mean,
(33:04):
great stuff out there that a great friend, your great teacher
and want people to know more about you appreciate you to tell
me everything. Yeah.
So you can find us at athletic motion golf.com, that's the
website you can book lessons on there.
Check out our online memberships, but a lot of people
find us through the YouTube and the Instagram channels.
So those are just athletic motion golf.
(33:24):
Both of them, you can find this give us The follow or subscribe
and you can kind of see what we're up to awesome stuff Shawn.
Take care, buddy. Enjoy small-time over the
holiday up in Maine and I'll talk with you soon.
Appreciate it brother. See ya.
All right. That's shown.
Web will catch you next week on the tour Coke.
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