Masters Week with Chris O'Connell, Jamie Mulligan and Jeff Smith

Masters Roundtable with three amazing coaches: Jeff Smith, he works with Viktor Hovland, Chris O'Connell, who works with Matt Kuchar and Jamie Mulligan who works with Patrick Cantlay. They each have a ton of insights into how they're preparing for the masters - what they're doing beforehand, what they're doing there while on-site and some insights in strategy, jam packed with insights.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
We're on a mission to help golfers from all over the world,
achieve their goals by understanding what it actually
takes to play their best golf. We're talking with leading
instructors, researchers, and players themselves to find what
is actually working You are listening to the golf Science

(00:25):
Lab podcast. Thanks for hanging out today and
it is Masters week. One of the best weeks of the
Year typically, an April around,my wife's birthday, throws a
wrinkle in my master celebrations most years, but the
good news is, it won't be happening this year because
we're in November, so excited todive in and did a really cool

(00:45):
Roundtable conversation last week with, for Coaches and this
is actually with golf.com that Idid this, but really phenomenal
conversation I want to share with you, it's with Jeff Smith
who works with Victor hovland who's actually not playing in
the Masters. This year, seems kind of
unbelievable, but he has worked with players in the past who
played the Masters in been there.
We also have Chris O'Connell Chris works with Matt Kuchar who

(01:09):
obviously has a phenomenal trackrecord at the Masters.
So, tons of great insights from him and then we have Jamie
Mulligan who works with Patrick can't lay, he is playing really
well right now. Really serious Contender.
This master is so phenomenal, conversation with these guys.
They have just a ton of insightsinto how they're preparing for
the Masters, what they're doing beforehand, what they're doing?
They're while on-site and some insights into strategy, this is

(01:32):
jam-packed with good stuff. So let's Dive Right into this
conversation with the guys appreciate golf.com putting this
together. The sponsor for this episode is
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(02:16):
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Definitely recommend picking oneup.
Hey everyone. Welcome down to our masters
Roundtable, presented by CDW. We have some awesome instructors
here with us. We're going to talk about how
they are getting their players ready.

(03:19):
Let's dive in, get to know a little bit each of the
instructors who they're working with that kind of stuff.
Let's start with You. Chris Chris, tell us who you
work with kind of your relationship, your coaching
relationship with them. As far as Augusta.
I'll just have one player be a Matt Kuchar, Matt.
And I started working in Six. So it doesn't seem that long,

(03:40):
but we've had had a good run andmakes makes my work pretty easy
for one. You have one guy at a
tournament, so this will be his man.
I'm going to say, 10th, Masters since I've been with him.
I think he qualified the 2010 and then he's qualified every
year. So, as the other instructors,

(04:00):
know, sometimes it tournament. You got three, four, five, guys,
you're looking after. So to look after one guy is
pretty. Is in math.
Pretty low maintenance, is it? Is he kind of, does it get to to
ruffled? And so I'm looking forward to
it. It'll be an interesting week.
It's hard to wrap your head around.
Here we are October 31st in the Masters is coming up.

(04:20):
So but looking forward to it andit'll be an interesting
experience. They're going to allow the
instructors to stay on for the week and actually watch the
tournament which will be be great.
I think I think I guest is a great course for spectators to
sit and Watch. It's a tough course to kind of
follow your player to get a goodvantage point, but it's not

(04:42):
looking forward to that shouldn't have any problem.
Getting advantage. Point.
Jamie, let's bounce to you. Good morning.
Yeah, I Patrick can't lie. I've been working with Patrick
since he was 7 years old for over 20 years now, I actually
started playing golf with his grandfather.
When I was an assistant at the club that I'm the CEO at
Virginia country club in Long Beach and then I taught his

(05:04):
father as well. It was a club champion at our
club and I have been with, you know, Patrick and basically
started M and this couple watch his Ascent, all the good things
that he's done. This is our 27th trip to Augusta
with pliers of that. I've been with Patrick about
four or five times as well as when he was an amateur there and
really looking forward to it. As Chris says, it's a, it's an

(05:27):
amazing golf course in many waysand definitely an amazing Golf
Course for a bunch of gallery. It's going to be interesting
with 47 coaches out there tryingto have Beth It's on lemonade to
see who's Clara place better. So we're looking forward to it.
A lot and as we all know, it's amagical spot and there's nothing
like the Masters. We can feel it.
Now just getting ready to Adorn.Donna Lincoln, it's not even

(05:49):
going to be there for another 10days.
Thanks Jeff. Actually this year, I don't have
a player in the field but I've been to three in the last four,
but some of my players are and wise, Scott, Piercy also work
with Victor hovind who unfortunately would normally
probably be in the field this year but With the cutoff because

(06:09):
of covid. He's kind of kind of left out of
the field with his win earlier in the year.
So yeah. Like, these guys mentioned as a
coach Augusta's, not like any other week tour for us, there's
a, there's a lot of restrictive movements.
There's a lot of places where wehave to be and where we can't
be. And so it's a for me, it's been,
it's been a strange experience because it's completely

(06:31):
different routine than what we normally have on, you know
during the week where maybe we're walking practice.
Rounds where our players were onthe floor.
On the greens are on the golf course.
That's, that's pretty restrictedat Augusta.
So you don't quite get the same probably detail or level of work
that we would normally get on a normal tour week.
Let's talk about tournament prep.

(06:52):
Let's talk about, you know, how to get players, ready for a
major, two to four weeks out. And I think, you know, what will
bounce to you, Jamie? Because very interesting.
Patrick coming off a win obviously playing really well.
Do you find that? It's More difficult, or there's
more pressure applied. So it's, you know, that whole
aspect going into a major after,you know, a big win and playing

(07:15):
well like that. Yeah, you stole my punchline
there. I was going to say we like to
win within a month of the major makes a lot easier to get ready
to go. We're huge on, you know, we were
on this system all the time, with all of our players and
everybody that we can add the 15, LPGA RPG players that we've
ever work with, we kind of put them in what we think call this
the wheel and the wheel is as a matter of all these Spokes and

(07:39):
our job is to keep the Stokes great and they all have
different mannerisms and different ways about what they
need to do. And the spokes are kind of a
conic for whatever they're doingin those little areas, and our
job is to keep them straight. And also, our job is the
instructors to see how straight we can keep them all year long
and whether it's major or whether it's a regular event.
So we've done, I think a pretty good job in our mind and my mind

(08:03):
and our players lines of not changing the spokes up too much.
And if they get that Lisa Why they're bent and you try to work
on them. So interesting, with Patrick
like for a couple months since we got back from the break, he's
been trending, really, really nice.
Like a spectacular round in an event and a really solid ground
than a so so round and kind of an indifferent round but off the

(08:24):
away from the tournament and watching him crap and watching
him, do his gig rather it was nutrition or Fitness or how he
was working on as motion, or rolling the ball or short game
and all looked on point, but we Weren't getting quite the
results that were trying to. So to have this last week and
watch him come together and you know, we stayed out in Malibu

(08:45):
house week and my clubs and LongBeach and our member guess was
going on. So I was kind of driving back
and forth and every day when I drove back to go to the club
before I drove out to Malibu, I was thinking that he's on point.
He looks really really great. So it's fun when that thing
comes to fruition and right now we're going to keep him in the
bubble. He actually went out there and
played yesterday and they had a great There.

(09:07):
We were going to go out and actually play with him and we
have all the fires in California, so we thought it
would be best to stay home and be safe around here, but he's
ready to go. So now we'll just kind of keep
them in chill mode and he's great at that as well to, he can
stay, you know, in different in his mind and not quite worried
about things and he's done enough.
Now that we're ready. And then when we get back on

(09:27):
Monday to start, we'll do our regular things in order to
prepare and get ready. Jeff.
What about instruction? You know, as far as technical
teaching what Kinds of things. Are you willing to work on
leading up to a major, two to four weeks out?
And what kinds of things are? You not willing to work on?
Yeah, I don't really think it's any different for major than it

(09:48):
is. You know, the normal course of
the year, every player is got, you know, a set of for the
fundamentals that they're working on from a technique
standpoint. And when you get to this level
of coaching, those things don't change very often, it's just
executing on those things betterand better and better.
So for a major, You're I find myself gravitating more towards

(10:10):
like the escalation. These guys know what they're
playing for. They get ramped up themselves,
they know that a Majors coming up, they put more pressure on
themselves and necessary. So I find myself really trying
to like minimize the expectation.
Minimize the moment, make them more aware of, you know, their

(10:30):
basic fundamentals and not really try to go outside the box
and reach a lot because that's the first thing, a Laird will do
when they when they feel a lot of pressure of the big moment or
a big tournament, they'll be like, hey, what do you think
about this? Look at this part of my swing,
you know, all these things that we've never even talked about
before. Now this popping up and and I

(10:51):
think that's just the response to stress.
So my job in that moment or thatrole is to really just kind of
deescalate, make them comfortable and make sure that
they're focused on the things that actually matched, truly
matter to their game and then playing their best call.
Totally Chris. Let's bounce.
To you two to four weeks out. What are you and Matt working
on? What is kind of the weekly

(11:12):
routine look like. And what is the practice?
You know, on a very practical standpoint, what's actually
going on the stairs, a little different for us. 11 months that
are actually 51 weeks out of theYear.
Matt Kuchar wants to fade or even slice the ball.
And then about the first part ofMarch, he starts asking me how

(11:32):
to hit a draw, because March he starts thinking about Augusta
and If I have two conversations with Matt, number one, I talked
about Jack Nicklaus who played afade and 16 Green Jackets, to
kind of tell him. It doesn't have to draw the ball
but then we will work on it. There's a couple holes,
particularly 10, and 13, which are beneficial if you can move

(11:52):
the ball right to left. So that's always an interesting
whenever he asked about that. That's when I know Masters week
is coming because the guy. Absolutely, I've never met.
Anybody has more disdain for a ball going left than that.
Pitcher. So, and the second thing that he
gets really kind of tuned in on as he wants to have complete

(12:15):
control in his short game and I say control.
He wants to see how much spin hecan generate Augusta's Graves
gets so firm and fast, especially late in the day and
if you don't have spin on your golf ball it, I made you could
hit two chips that are seeminglythe same and they could end up
30 30 feet apart. So he's really big on.

(12:37):
His contact in short game and trying to spin the ball and
then, you know, he wants to be able to draw the ball, you know,
where 10 and 13. Other than that out there, I
don't think drawing the ball is that important, but it's always
what we spent 51 weeks trying tonot, make it go that way.
And then all of a sudden he thinks, he, he need to size a

(12:58):
little bit. What Jeff said were sometimes, I
think players maybe make it overcomplicated instead of just kind
of sticking with, with what? From there, they all said and
think they got to do something special to win a major and the
majors are it's still 72-hole, golf tournament.
I mean, it's nothing more than that.

(13:18):
So did you get the text where hewas asking how to hit a draw
this year already? Yeah.
Okay. But it didn't happen to me, I
think you kind of forgot that the Masters was coming up so he
didn't ask a month in advance. He just asks a last week, that's
great. So I the theme is kind of desk.
Elation that I'm hearing from all of you is we're just kind

(13:41):
of, I think Chris what you just said right there is do what got
you there and not try to go outside the box or do anything.
Different is kind of the key concur here, for sure.
I love the word, the escalation and when you think about it, I
mean, this is what they do for aliving.
This is what we do for a living,the moments.
Going to make it bigger than it is and they're preparing their
whole life in order to make the moment, you know, the way that

(14:02):
it is, so they can perform and they can grab a trophy at the
end and The more normal that youdo in our business to make
everything whether they're practicing playing around at
home, playing around with somebody playing in a tournament
or playing you know overseas whoever they are the more normal
you can make it the more similarthat you can make it the better
that it is nitty-gritty details.Is there any kind of like games

(14:25):
that you're having people use? Is there anything of are you
guys a fan of, you know, visualizing a certain whole and
trying to, you know, hit shots to that and trying to dial and
you know, shop patterns or any kind of games are Eels which you
feel are really helpful when preparing for some big
tournament. Yeah that mean you just
mentioned it right there. I've stood on the range with you

(14:46):
know the yards, a book from Augusta, some of my players in
preparation and they're kind of going through every tee shot in
their mind. You know, will will create sort
of a visual barrier on the Rangethat represents, you know, the
second hole where you got to hita big draw around the corner or
whatever and you know, it's a lot of players will do that.

(15:07):
Ln Fact, one of my players was practicing this week at medalist
and tiger was out there doing exactly that.
So had his yardage book out, what's going through every
single tee shot. I think that's a pretty common
common thing. The other thing that a lot of my
guys will try to do and It's Tricky, it's very difficult to
replicate because Augusta's greens are so fast and so

(15:29):
there's so much, slow bottom. We don't really get the practice
or look at greens like that veryoften.
And so, you know, a lot of My guys, will you nobody up to the
Greenskeeper at the club wherever they practice and say,
hey can you can you can you double roll them?
Can you speed up this back? Shipping green for me and
they'll try to get some kind of a, some kind of a realistic look

(15:50):
at, you know, what? They're going to be playing that
week because I mean, honestly, like Chris mentioned chipping,
chipping at a place. Like, Augusta is so difficult
because you never chip on speeds, that aren't on green.
Is that fast with that much slope and so I think It's a
hugely underrated skill, that's necessary to play well at the

(16:11):
Masters. And that's why you see guys
like, you know, Bernhard longer every single year at the top of
the leaderboards. It's not necessarily because
he's out ball-striking everybody, he just knows how to
navigate those greens and can save a lot of those shots around
there. So that's just a couple of
little little things that I'll see guys do.
Yeah, Frederica and Sea Island. They've got a bunch of Tour

(16:32):
player members, their coach is amember Zach Johnson Harris,
English I got a bunch more but they I know they will leading up
to the Masters, get the greens, just 14 fast, as they can get
them, which is great for the guys there because they get to
kind of train for a week or two heading into Augusta.
It's not not such a shock when you all said and show up but

(16:54):
that Augusta the course changes.So dramatically we've gone in
before on a Sunday before the tournament week and it's pretty
benign and then they have the ability to ramp that.
Lace up exactly how they want. They can get moisture out of
that place overnight. So it has the we go, the course
changes quite a bit, but there'ssometimes when they late in the

(17:18):
afternoon and there's some wind blowing, I mean, those screens
are just your defensive puting, I mean you might have an
8-footer and you're trying to figure out how can I to but this
thing. So it can get dicey around
there. You can argue guy like what we
call running the movie all the time.
Meaning today's junior, golf Andtour players Saturday at our

(17:39):
club. And for three decades at 1:00 or
2:00 in the afternoon, we'll have to tour players in a couple
of young people that were working with and they'll go out
and play and if there's two groups of them will go out and
play and I'll watch golf probably watch more golf than we
will ever stand on the Range. Watching people play.
And we're running to the movie the whole time and we get to a
certain whole whether it's a whole that looks like the

(18:00):
temples out of gasca or whether it's a whole that looks like the
8th hole at Muirfield. Lawless bring that up so the
movie sauce going maybe at nauseam for players but not even
listening to Patrick talk about Augusta couple days ago.
He's like you had painted the picture from all the times that
you've been there so well when Igot there and with TV, I already

(18:21):
knew what it looked like and I think that's a big thing that
they have in their head and theyknow what they're going to do
and they know how that are actually going to play there.
And then I was going to say a couple of years ago we got to go
with Phil and prepare and Patrick and fill after they
played in the morning one day they just took their filter A 64
and Patrick took their 60 and they were out there for three
hours on the back, nine hitting pitches.

(18:42):
And Phil was kind of saying the same thing that Chris and Jeff
alluded to that. There's not really any place
that you pitch like here that sees unique is this and what was
before the tournament. And obviously it was slower to
go out there and just work with the guy that won the tournament
three times. So watch the pitches.
Did he hit you? Watch them.
Try to spin the ball to the slopes and allow the ball to
matriculate down. And then lastly, every time that

(19:04):
were there, when we get there ona Monday, also, Like walking up
the golf course and looking out,of course we go.
Oh my God, this place is so pureregardless of where we are
because we get to go to such special venues but there's no
different. There's no place like a guest of
that changes as Chris said, morefrom Monday to Sunday and they
can do what they want last year,you know, got drizzly or a year

(19:25):
and a half ago, got drizzly. And then by the time that you
got to Saturday you're like wellI thought there was some
moisture and it was completely gone from a golf cart so it's
like they can turn the buttons pretty.
Well, let's dive into At the tournament week, right?
Like what, what you do, let's start with the pudding because
you guys are talking about it. What are the best things you can
do to help a player calibrate toa different environment like

(19:48):
that? Yeah.
That's that's a very tricky one there.
I think one of the goals of the folks that put on the tournament
are to make the tour players as uncomfortable as possible and
that's sort of the defense mechanism for the golf course.
They want to keep you on your toes.
Keep you off my Balance and so you won't see things like

(20:10):
putting equipment down on the practice putting green, you
know, you're you know, I was there a couple years ago and
Bryson pulls out. The GC quad sets it down there
and 10 seconds later here, come the Green Jackets you know get
this thing off, the putting green, you not going to see guys
putting levels down so there's alot of like secrecy around the
green self, you know. There's a lot of guys on tour

(20:32):
who use, you know stuff, I came point where they're very used to
you know having slope. To knowing exactly what the
slopes are calibrating their aimpoint and all of that.
So you know, as far as that stuff goes, those routine stay
the same. You know, the guys are spent a
lot of time doing speed work on those screens again, I think to

(20:52):
putt well or to play. Well there you got to have great
distance control and you got to be really really solid around
the whole because a lot of your a lot of your, you know, 30 40
foot lag putts. They're not they're not going to
end up. Up as close to the hole on that
first attempt is you would see at a normal Tour event.
So you're going to have a lot offive or six Footers left and

(21:15):
you'll see, you'll see it guys, guys, doing a lot of drills
around the hole and stuff like that during preparation.
I like the word texture work. We like this, a lot.
How the ball is actually coming off your putter, regardless of
where you are and with great Putters.
And, you know, Chris has gotten that probably does that as well
as anybody. The strike looks the same,
whether the greens are eight on the stamping or 14 on the stem

(21:36):
attorneys. We could controlling Distance by
letting the putter swing longer and I love that look with choirs
and I think about placement is really important.
I was also going to say, wow, the new driving range is almost
better than most golf courses and you could stay there
forever, for me, being an old traditionalists.
I'm not quite sure if the new cutting green over there is
similar to the one on the golf course, but I've never seen a

(21:59):
putting green more similar than the putting green.
That's right between the iconic one.
That's right between one and ten, it feels exactly like the
golf. Course.
And I think that's a really goodbarometer green, and we love
going out there on Monday. When Patrick was an amateur and
he stayed in the Crow's Nest, you know, meet him there every
morning, for like an hour pot where we were just doing texture
and speed work, and it's amazinghow that thing gets quicker.

(22:23):
John Merrick could really nicelythere.
His rookie year and finished sixand had like a backdoor. 65 that
where he finished Sixth and I remember there was this like
20-footer that we are hitting onthe far right side of the
fighting green and this 5-footerthat we're hitting our way.
Can I do literally saw that pocket twice as quick including
the up a little 5-footer. So I think you got a gauge that

(22:44):
and as Chris says there is some defensive putting out there but
getting more comfortable to thaton a daily basis and watching
what they do to make it evolve through the week is really
important. You know.
I think obviously you'd love to have I mean as a teacher it's
great to have a great putter. I mean it makes you makes you
look good. But the one thing about Augusta

(23:05):
that doesn't seem Like people assume you have to be a great
putter to win at Augusta. And man, I can go through and
list some kind of dodgy Putters that have wanted a guest.
I mean, Bubba, Watson Bernhard, Langer, Fred Couples.
You get some people who aren't known as great Putters that,
that still managed to win, Augustine people assume because

(23:27):
the greens are super fast, you have to be a great Putter and I
think sometimes when they get super fast at the fact, you're
putting defensive takes away that skill to where you're not,
you're almost Trying to but you're not you're not making
Cuts. Also when they're that you
really don't have to even make astroke.
You just kind of have to nudge it and just kind of get it going

(23:47):
somewhere down near the hole. So everybody thinks you have to
be a great putter. I mean I would certainly I'd
love to have been crunch up putting for me at Augusta but
there have been some now when I say week they're great Putters
but by 2 or standards not their strength.
So would you think it's good to have a Mindset shift,

(24:07):
potentially, when potting is a good change and say, I'm going
to be a little bit more defensive this week in my
putting than I was last week. What do you think?
Well, I mean, you hate to put defensively but you really?
There's so many putts out there.You're simply trying to get it
close to the hole. I mean, Jeff talked about doing
speed drills. Matt, Matt, does the speed drill

(24:29):
where he tries to hit each putt a little bit longer than the
last. If he comes up short, he starts
over and then Has kind of a he'strying to say how many in a row
he can get and then he runs out of room.
Well normally and this drill, he'll set up say 20 feet with
his first but 40 feet would be his longest and he starts trying

(24:49):
to go 21 feet, 22 feet. Well normally he can do that.
He could probably get 10 in a row.
It Augusta. I mean, it makes you feel like
an absolute beginner because you'll hit what feels like the
same pot. But haste with it that speed a A
slight more potterhead, speed, doesn't equate to 6 inches.

(25:11):
Pass it equates to 3 feet pass, so we'll do that drill.
But I mean there's times when you do that drill and he almost
it's somewhat defeats him because he realizes how
challenging it really is. And so, I just think there's
very few putts at Augusta that you feel comfortable, putting
aggressive. And I think probably when Jamie

(25:33):
was talking about Patrick being out with Phil, where you're
chipping, From is hugely important.
I mean, if you're chipping from the right spots it's very easy
to get up and in. But you know, number one, you go
over number one, green and forget, it's just a cardinal
sin. You cannot go over number one
green. So if they have a pin in the
back, their number one, it's going to be really boring.

(25:54):
Everybody's going to hit 30 feet, short, and trying to, but
no, nobody's going to make a birdie unless that whole long
putt, if they hit a close that hole, they're taking my opinion.
They're taking terrible strategybecause you just there's so So
many situations there where you're trying to, I hate to say
it but you're trying to avoid a certain a certain position on

(26:15):
the course. Yeah, I would say the further
elaborate, you know, Chris's point there on, you know,
nullifying, you know, the importance of being a great
putter there. When you look at the data, you
know, at Augusta, you know, the separation value from player to
player, doesn't come from cutting.
It doesn't come from on the greens, you know, for example,

(26:35):
Shadow Creek, Here, two weeks ago, kokrak wins and he gains
over 11 shots on the greens. You just not going to see that
happen at Augusta. So no one can really separate
themselves that way from the rest of the field.
It's definitely a ball Strikers.Golf course, you know, Augusta
is a second Shot, Golf Course and you know so going into that
you know that you might have some leeway off the tee but

(26:58):
you've definitely got to be on, you know, on point and be very
precise with your iron play. Again, like Chris mentioned
there's, you know you've got to be very Very precise with your
second shot on that golf course,because there's certain sections
on those greens to where if you hit the ball in the wrong
section, it's almost an auto 3 but sometimes you can't stop it.
So it's not necessarily A measure of how well you're

(27:21):
putting. It's a measure of.
Did I hit it on the right section of agreeing to not two
not three but here so definitelyI would agree with him and say
that historically the great ballStrikers are the ones who are
putting themselves in position to win the I do say, I do think
that you have to put what, you know, you have to put well to

(27:42):
want to give yourself a chance to win any golf tournament on
tour but you don't have to you know, go crazy on the greens.
There let's talk about short game prep there.
Any kind of shots that you feel like your particular important
to work on Chris, you mentioned controlling spin is something
that Matt works on a lot of any other kind of shots that are
particular to Masters week that you like to get players

(28:04):
comfortable with and and working.
On being Jeff touched on it in moving short game, they're kind
of you know, back even to the 100 and 110 yard shot that
you're going to need for say, ifyou have to lay it up on hole
number two, and you got left thelocation middle location down
right hole location, where you going to land the ball where
you're going to use this thin there.
And another place is a masterpiece, you know, and

(28:25):
there's so many reasons for the fact that it is a masterpiece.
You know, we could argue betweenus whatever.
We think it's a parting course, or a ball hitting horse, but it
really makes you deliver all thegoods to play.
Well, there, I love sitting. With the whole caddies,
especially back in the day and they're talking about, you know,
what we would call Big Picture topography, how everything gets
to a point in rank pre-race Creek down by whole number 11,

(28:48):
and it's not actually just the race Creek.
It's a little spot in the pump house or they think things break
too. And whether you believe in that
and completely stuck on a point and you don't think that matters
or not, but the ball is definitely moving down towards
that way. And when you're hitting shop
stuff, see if the winds going there, you got to be thinking
about that. So, I like in the prep work

(29:08):
through the week and they do a great job with their driving
range, or when you're out playing your practice rounds.
Kind of figure out, where do I have to hit my ball in order to
let it matriculate or manifest down towards the hole, which is
almost different than any other venue that we go to, because you
can use some land in the slopes and the wind so nicely there to
your advantage. And also, to make you really

(29:29):
look really bad, if you miss oneof those, slopes Chris, when you
and matter go this week here on strategy.
Are you guys pretty? Then Matt obviously has a great
track record there over the years of so many good finishes.
Are you guys pretty dialed in onstrategy knowing what clubs are
going to be hit off? T's kind of aim points into
greens or you pretty conservative or more aggressive

(29:50):
talk, a little about strategy, maybe.
Yeah, I mean that would that wouldn't change a whole lot.
That would only change if the course if it were cold or soft.
Matt's going to struggle to reach the par 5.
If it's firm and warm, he's finenow.
He's going to be hitting more. Club in there than in other
guys. But you know when you saw Zach

(30:11):
Johnson went in there that it was really really cold.
I think it kind of took away that couldn't get to the par-5
so he had to rot rely on his short game.
Other guys that could get their had to hit so much Club into
those holes that they weren't asoffensive holes is normal.
So that year the score was pretty high winning score.

(30:33):
So that that would I mean Matt'swedge game.
Is important, especially there if it's soft and it's playing
long. But if if it's firm, Matt
kuchar's not going to be hittinga lot of wedges around there
because the par fives, he'll be on the green or chipping and the
par fours are too long for him to where he would get wedges.

(30:54):
So, let's games important for him.
I would say the longer that GolfCourse plays because it comes
into play on them, on a par 5. Now Bryson D Shambo wedge game
is going to be important no matter what because As you know,
he's going to have you start thinking about the club not just
Bryson, I mean you know. Rory, Dustin Johnson Brooks
koepka, you can go on and on Bryson is changed his game but a

(31:19):
lot of talk about how prices changed the game that style of
play has been going on for a long time.
Just let's just hit drivers far as we can't get a shorter Club
as we can get in. But you start thinking about the
clubs at that, he will be hitting in or those other guys
if they choose to hit driver. And I mean 11 11 is.
It's over 500 yards, couch, a lot of times is coming in there

(31:43):
with with the hybrid. And I mean he'll you know, those
guys Bryson hit some kind of wedge and 11.
I mean, it just did there's not going to be any long holes out
there for for Bryson or Rory or DJ if if it's warm.
And infirm. Yeah.
What about you? Jamie with Patrick and looking
at strategy just a ton of drivers hit it as far as

(32:05):
possible. Look In at the attacking every
pan or more conservative into greens.
Any thoughts or prep on one strategy?
I think you could get Chris and Jeff.
And I have to agree with Chris said, for sure why we might
disagree with something's, everybody's been hitting it far
for a long time and trying to get it for her for a long time.
The interesting thing about a guest, if you look historically,
you know, it's kind of its favorite, a lot of players, you

(32:27):
know. Mike Weir, didn't vomit.
Crenshaw didn't moment jacked and vomit.
You know, Max played unbelievably around.
They're not. So, I think it's putting it in
the right spot. Right.
Patrick's got a really good lookat he was hello amateur you know
last year he or a year and a half ago Escapes Me we barely
made the cut and then got in thecut on the number and then he

(32:49):
tied the low score on the weekend or close to the low
score on the weekend, and we hada really good chance to win
coming down the stretch. And I think he sees it the right
way, and the one thing, if you're much, like the iron
shots, if you're using the slopes, and using the land and
losing using the win, right? The right way.
You're turning. 300-yard carry alot of times into 330 and 340

(33:10):
yard carry and then there's someholes where you just got to hit
it straight out there. Like for me seven changed almost
as much as any whole lot there, when I first went out there, you
know, I saw why stop the first time I was out there almost
driving in the greenside bunker and then you know, now you're
back on that whole sometimes sitting on five, six, seven
eight iron into the hole and andit doesn't matter how far you

(33:31):
hit it if price is going to go ahead and take a swing at that
one. I'm going to hit it on the green
and better. Be a really good one.
I can't imagine you being able to do that for holes in a row.
So we have our lines, you have alines in our head picked out
really. Well, we have our wine Jarhead
picked out on how fast it goes and what the wind does and are
catty, does a really nice job atfiguring out how the lines move

(33:52):
over based on the circumstances.So we're ready with the driver.
I think I agree with what Jeff said, that Augusta being a
second shot. Golf course.
I think guys that have won therehave been have been great iron
players and I think Tiger Woods is probably the greatest iron
player in the history of the game and so I think Augusta is

(34:12):
you play aggressive off the tee and then I think you turn
around, I think he played more conservative into the green.
And so that's where it's an, it's an interesting golf course
but a great iron shot at Augusto.
A lot of times doesn't mean you're close to Holy Angie, hit
it to the right. Right.
Spot on the green. Yep.
I would, I would agree with that.
I mean, well, I think we're all kind of anticipating, you know,

(34:36):
to see what Rice and does with taking some of those lines.
And we've all like, I've alreadyplayed the golf course in my
head, thinking about 200 ball speed and where I would hit it
on Sir hose and, you know, I'm curious, you know, we're all
excited to see to see those lines, but the end of the day
you still have to make the pots.You still have to have play ball
position, you know, he's got to play really well to, you know,

(34:58):
to win their Jeff. We saw the other day that that
you had a Victor, getting his Club head speed up there and
some some pretty pretty big. Changes.
Is that kind of off of that Bryson wave and have you guys
thought about talked with players at all about gaining
speed? Yeah.
You know for Victor know it really had nothing to do with
with Bryson, you know as I started to work with him and

(35:20):
evaluate him as an athlete, I saw someone who statistically
was leaving a lot on the table Victor's, an incredible ball
Striker, you know, always has been since since youth and was
doing a lot of things to really like, you know, Governor on his
on his, his speed, Victor, the great athlete, he's very fast

(35:41):
which he's strong and he has thecapability of swinging.
Very, very fast and in fact he was doing things.
Like you know you got Bryson going 48 this kid was playing an
inch short driver. So there's a there were some
things like that that were like no-brainers and in the beginning
it was like let's let's test it.Let's see, can we still be a

(36:03):
world-class driver of the ball being is accuracy.
He is, I mean hitting over, 65% of Fairways but just push it
down. The Fairway a little bit further
because I thought that it would definitely change his game as a
player, if because he's a great iron player and a great driver,
if I could give you a few more shorter irons wedges, come
things in his hand and I think it would give him an even a

(36:26):
bigger, a bigger Edge, you know,tee to green.
And so, you know, we weren't really trying to chase Bryce
thing. Like Chris said, I mean, speed
has been a differentiator since Getting of golf.
And although I've always tried to get all of my players to hit
it far, I think you just see more of an emphasis now on guys
working on their body training. Making sure their equipment is

(36:48):
dialed in to just sort of Max. There's a lot of reason why
distances think coaches understand how to generate force
and speed now, like they never have before.
And so you got these great athletes in front of you that
can do this stuff. There's just, there's a reason
why everybody's, I say a say it now. 180 ball speed is like the
new 165 ball speed. I mean I've got 15 kids under 18

(37:14):
years old with 180 ball speed. You know, some of them that 190
ball speed and Equipment doesn'thave a lot to do with that.
It's that the type of athlete and how they're, you know, how
they're producing Force now. So yeah that's just that's my
two cents on the on the Bryson thing Cordy it would be really
interesting to take the players for every generation.

(37:36):
Sharon, just look at their body types and look what they look
like compared to what they look like.
Now, we played a practice round on Tuesday at Sherwood with Jess
guy, Victor, and he's impressiveathlete.
Like when you get close to him and realizing the kid is fit, as
can be, he's making a bunch of speed, the way he walks, you
know, he looks like he can put them in, you know, I don't think

(37:58):
plenty of baseball but you look like, you could make them short
stop if you wanted to. And if you look, if he had to
play college football, you can make them the free safety.
I mean, he He looks like an athlete and they all do and, you
know, a lot of the speed, like there's different ways to go
about getting speed, you know, think of what's going on in our
world with the physios and the trainers and the gym world and

(38:18):
what they're doing. I know what our guys are doing
and so I don't think that's going to change.
And makes makes me proud watching at that, we've become
more athletic than anybody, almost thought that we ever were
going to be Chris. What's your take on this?
Obviously, Matt being of a little bit older but Raishin
right then Victor and Patrick potentially in that

(38:39):
conversation. But what is your if you guys
talked about that at all speed at all and is that ever come up
in the last six months? Yeah I would love for Jeff said,
18 is the new 165? I'd love to see, Matt Kuchar at
180. I can get 18, you know, to

(39:03):
church through up. Yeah, which is 4.
Titoo now and so he was right. As tiger was kind of coming on
seeing because I can remember being at Augusta when tiger was
an amateur in all the stories about tiger hitting nine iron
and 15 and this and that. And I mean, he was hitting, you
know, it's a 43 and a half inch steel driver and it was just

(39:27):
crazy to places, he was hitting it.
I think think that had a big influence on kids growing up and
seeing how far they could hit I think Launch monitors have had a
huge issue. I mean there's nothing like
swinging and getting feedback isto was that faster or not and it
just it motivates kids, it's a scoreboard but you know couch

(39:49):
would be. We have worked on getting him
more more distance. We probably eight years ago we
started looking at it and everybody I think Matt hits it
further and he's ever hit it buteverybody else has gotten
longer. So we realize that for him to
have more chances to win and forhim to extend his career, he
needed more distance. We've you know, he's probably a

(40:12):
club head speed, probably a 110 guy, we've gotten him up to 115
before and it just doesn't feel it.
Feels out of control to him and I said it should feel out of
control to you, but his game revolves so much around
precision and control that he has not felt comfortable today,
trying to put that into play, but it would soaking I can give

(40:36):
you like 50 or 60 million reasons why Precision spent
pretty important for him to know.
It's pretty interesting. It was the last week at
Sherwood. They got five par fives there
and one of them everybody's kindof handcuffed because the
Fairway runs out, I think it's 13 but the other ones you know,

(40:58):
Madel hit a drive, say 280 and he's coming in there with with
the three. Would you know he's got 260
coming in there. R.
And at the end of the week, he said, I felt like I played
pretty good golf. He said I did not play the par
5S very well. I said I felt like I put pretty
good golf and I finished 45th orwhatever and I was talking to
him about the par-5 swear. I said, imagine if you had say,

(41:19):
say 20 are if you're coming in there and said, you know, 250 or
coming in there to 30 and so that on that particular course,
15 20 yards or shoot 40 yards, makes a huge difference.
So there are certain courses benefit certain players, but
like Jamie say, That means when you play a tournament, you most
likely it kind of got to do everything well and the beauty

(41:42):
of golf is that it's not just one skill.
There are so many skills involved and so maybe you as a
shorter hitter maybe you're giving up after the tee shot
your to disadvantage but then, you know, I'll take Mac picture
from that point. Forward all the way to the hole
over most players, but there arecertain holes, certain courses,

(42:03):
where an average length header is given up.
Yardage. Let's wrap with what you do week
of the best week of the year comes in November this year.
Who knew what are you doing? What are the keys for a good
warm-up? So a player feels that security
going into the round that they've done everything.
They can to prepare themselves when they step on that First

(42:24):
Tee. Well, I think Jamie's got to
figure out, get your guy to win the monthly, the end of the
tournament. So I need to figure that figure
that strategy. Yeah, I think obviously going
into the weekend, good. Arm is that takes away a lot of
stress, trying to trying to findyour game at a major.
Any week trying to find your game is not not the ideal

(42:45):
scenario, but I think in the warm-up going through certain
certainty shots, you know, kind of painting a picture of okay
can't miss left here. Can't miss right here, some tee
shots, it would be uncomfortablefor mad.
It would be, I'm going to I'm going to work on such a couple
drawers but I don't want to overdraw it 12 at Augusta is Is

(43:06):
always a, we don't work a lot interms of shit on the Range.
We would work on shots, tee shots, avoiding one side of the
other, not so much approach shots, but 12 at Augusta is a
different story. 12 in Augusta were always talking about that
whole, Matt likes to fade it andI think I think that's very
dangerous on that whole, I thinkyou need to play that that whole

(43:29):
to the right over the bunker, front edge of that green, right
over that bunker, hit it straight or try and hook it no
matter where the pin is. The way that great setup, long,
lapse, terrible, and short rights terrible and that's your
Miss pattern for a right-handed golfer.
So that hole is a people think they've got an eight or nine or
and I think it's a birdie hole, it's not it's a it's a potential

(43:50):
disaster whole. So we'll work on that the where
we'll kind of paint a picture and no matter where the pin is
try to get him. He's going to hit it here or
left. It's a lot of visualization like
working through shots on the Range.
Just testing it out. Yeah.
Yes, we're going to keep runningthe movie that we were talking
about, you know, we've been painting the movie for this guy
for a long, long time ago, this would have looks like you knows

(44:13):
what it feels like, you know, asJeff and Chris can I test fit?
We're on the minute and our business meeting.
I'm sure when Aaron Wise is going to go warm up, Jeff knows
what time he's going to walk outonto the fighting green and the
driving range, you know, and I know what fabric will do the
whole week, we will set up camp,you know, will stay in them in a
place that we know that's familiar.

(44:34):
It's one of the weeks when our whole team will stay together.
From, we're away from the golf course to try to make it loose.
And he seemed to have fun and not worry about golf, King much.
And then when we get there, we'll kind of go through our
whole system and be adaptable, you know, I think that stress
for everybody is not knowing theoutcome of what's going to
happen and our job is to eliminate all the pictures of

(44:54):
that stress. And if something does come up
stressful to go back into our bubble and make it really really
low key and kind of figure out how we want it to be.
And then tap the end of the day,I remember sitting in the the in
the locker room with a veteran player one time and we were kind
of getting ready and to go out and walk out and I said, man,

(45:14):
it's nice to be here and he says, when you're here, you feel
like you've done something right?
You know, this is a spot and that one kind of resonates
completely. We know we've done something
right to be there and the objectis to be there all the time.
So we're looking forward to having a great week at that
iconic, special place. And nobody runs the golf
tournament like the master. So they do a pretty tremendous

(45:35):
with a bunch of So there, it's going to be really interesting
and intriguing to see what they do with this, the, the coaches
and our bubble there. And we're really looking forward
to it. It is a special week, they leave
no stone unturned there. I mean, the things that are,
there's a thousand things, they think about their one of them
that nobody talks about that I didn't know about.

(45:55):
Let's depends on the green or actually they're made out of
steel because if it happens to be a windy day, they don't want
the flags blah. Hopping all over the place and I
mean just little details like that.
When you add up all those littledetails, you really know that
this is a special week in like plate.
JB's head. You've done done something.

(46:17):
Right? If you're there and I think
everybody the energy that place is great because everybody is
excited to be there. And everybody feels very, very
blessed to be there during that week that seems like the perfect
place to wrap this conversation.Thank you guys so much.
For hanging out with us and sharing some insights, and

(46:39):
getting ready for the Masters week.
We appreciate your time and I hope everybody enjoys this week.
It's one of the best of the year, that's for sure.
So thanks for hanging out. Thank you to CDW, for presenting
this conversation. Thanks for having us, Jeff, and
Chris. Thanks for all the good things
you continue to do. Keep your record, appreciate
what you do as well. All right, guys.

(47:00):
Thank you all.