May 2, 2025 • 37 mins
The calendar has turned to May, which means it’s time for No Mow May. No Mow May was started to help pollinators, but does No Mow May work well in Illinois? Check out this week’s Good Growing Podcast to learn more about what No Mow May is, whether or not it’s a good option for us in Illinois, other ways we can support pollinators, and more!
Watch us on YouTube: https://youtu.be/3FWjduDGmGM
Skip to what you want to know:
00:29 - Welcome, Ken. Where has spring gone?
03:06 - What is No Mow May?
06:57 - Some problems with No Mow May
13:44 - Dandelions, are they good for pollinators?
19:16 - What can we do to provide early-season resources for pollinators?
35:26- Wrap-up, thank yous, what’s up next week, and goodbye!
Read more about it:
Good Growing Blog - It’s almost May; is it time to stop mowing?
Fitness costs and benefits of a non-native floral resource for subalpine solitary bees
Amino Acid Content of Dandelion Pollen, a Honey Bee (Hymenoptera: Apidae) Nutritional Evaluation
Contact us!
Chris Enroth: cenroth@illinois.edu
Ken Johnson: kjohnso@illinois.edu
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Any products or companies mentioned during the podcast are in no way a promotion or endorsement of these products or companies.
Barnyard Bash: freesfx.co.uk
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris Enroth (00:05):
Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris
Enroth, horticulture educatorwith University of Illinois
Extension coming at you fromMacomb, Illinois, and we have
got a great show for you today.Look at the calendar. The end of
April means no mow May is rightaround the corner. But should we
not be mowing our lawns orshould we be mowing our lawns in
(00:26):
the month of May?
Well, we will figure that out onthis week's episode, but you
know I'm not doing this bymyself. I am joined as always
every single week byhorticulture educator Ken
Johnson and Jacksonville. Hey,Ken.
Ken Johnson (00:37):
Hello, Chris. I guess by the time people listen
to this, it will be May. So Iguess it will be time to
continue no mowing or continueor start mowing.
Chris Enroth (00:46):
I Ken, am I the only one does this happen to you
when you hear that the month isabout to change, panic sets in,
especially in the springtime.
Ken Johnson (00:59):
Yeah. Particularly this year. This year seemed to
go by incredibly fast.
Chris Enroth (01:03):
Yeah. I I don't remember there being a spring.
It was 80 some degreesyesterday. It was pushing 90.
Not quite, but it was pushingthat here in Macomb.
Everyone was super hot, and nowit's, like, 60 degrees, and I
got a hoodie on. I'm cold now.It's it's it's it's ruined me.
We're practically in summer.
Ken Johnson (01:24):
So I haven't gotten to build up my heat tolerance
yet. Not that that's ever veryhigh, but there's there's no
gradual increase anymore.
Chris Enroth (01:33):
No. There's not. It's just straight into the
furnace of the year. Oh, well,maybe this is a timely topic
then. We talk about NoMoMay.
You know, we NoMoMay is supposedto be a thing that occurs in the
springtime. And I I've beenmarking spring weather by this
annual event that I've beendoing now since 2021. It's not a
(01:56):
very long time, but it seemslike every year this happens the
May. It is our first greatenvironmental day. Never fails.
We hit 90 that week. It's sohot. Kids are miserable. The
speakers are parched. You know,I'm going to each station giving
(02:17):
water to everybody, and it looksto be like it's gonna be another
hot one next week that whenwe're doing this.
So I don't know, Ken. Is itgetting hotter, or is it just
me?
Ken Johnson (02:29):
Well, it seems like it's getting hotter. I don't I I
mean, well, I guess last severalyears, we've it's been seems
like we're getting warmernormal. Warmer earlier than,
quote, unquote, normal, butmaybe this is the new normal.
Well,
Chris Enroth (02:45):
okay. I guess, well, let's see how this all
plays into Novo May. So firstoff, we do have an article that
you wrote, Ken. We can link thatbelow. So folks, you know,
prefer to read more about thisas opposed to listening to us
patter on for hours, you we willleave that link below in the
show description.
(03:05):
But, Ken, what is No Mo May? Isit as as I expect it to be?
Ken Johnson (03:12):
Yes. Yes. It's it's exactly what the name says. So
no mow may. So the idea is, wedon't mow our lawns in the month
of May.
The idea behind this so thisstarted in, The United Kingdom
in 2019 as the idea was to helppollinator populations because
we as we've heard been hearingfor for many years now, their
populations are struggling,pollinator declines, all of that
(03:34):
stuff. So if we don't mow ourlawns in the month of May,
that's supposed to increase theamount of, quote, unquote, weeds
that are blooming, providing afood source for these
pollinators. So kind of the kindof the two, I guess, main goal.
I think the primary goal isproviding those food sources.
And then a secondary goal that Ithink has been kinda tagged on,
over time is reducing thatcarbon footprint.
(03:56):
Say majority of people areprobably mowing their lawns with
gas powered, lawn mowers. Andeven if you're using an electric
one, that electricity is comingfrom somewhere. In a lot of
places, that's gonna be, coal,gas, some fossil fuel, providing
that electricity. So increasedfood for pollinators and with
(04:17):
the secondary benefit ofreducing carbon footprint, at
least for that that month ofMay.
Chris Enroth (04:23):
Well and I I can see how something like this
would catch on and be popularbecause you are you're saying to
folks, hey. Don't do something.Skip doing this thing to help.
How attractive that would be?Like, hey.
If I want to save the thepollinators, I just have to not
(04:44):
do something. And, yeah, I guessI see the appeal behind that and
maybe how that really did catchon. You know, we do get asked a
lot this time of year about theconcept of no may. Does it work?
Is it something that isbeneficial to pollinators?
There actually have been studiesthat have been done. You know,
(05:04):
one in particular, it's titledNo Mow May Lawns Have Higher
Pollinator Richness andAbundances. This is an engaged
community or sorry, subtitle isAn engaged community provides
floral resources forpollinators. So there have been
studies that have been done. Nowinterestingly, though, this
study that I just read the titleof, it has been retracted,
(05:26):
finding out that there areprobably some flaws here in some
of that research or maybemethodology and how they went
about that.
And so where a lot of peopleused to point to this and say,
hey. Look. This is helping.Nope. Not can't point to that
anymore because that that is nolonger a published article.
You can still find it online,but it would have a big red
(05:48):
letters of retracted above thetitle if you're getting it,
accessing it from the actualpublisher.
Ken Johnson (05:54):
Yeah. And basically, that retracted means,
like, basically, this articlenever existed. Mhmm. That thing
if I remember right, rememberpart of it was the the species
of bees they were identifyingwere not found. This is done in
Wisconsin.
We're not found in Wisconsin.Never have been. I think there
were some other pretty seriousflaws that went along with it,
(06:17):
which is why they ended upretracting it. So, you know,
like you said, that that has hadbeen kind of the the study
people pointed to the most. Youknow, so that's not there.
And I'd say just because it'snot there doesn't mean
necessarily bad, but there'sjust not necessarily any
research here, at least in inThe United States that I think
that we know of, that points toit being a good thing.
Chris Enroth (06:40):
Yeah. Yeah. And I guess, yeah, we we should just
let people know, like, the ideabehind NoMoMae, it is it is a
good thing. You know? We want totry to help pollinators.
We want to to try to reduce ourcarbon footprint. So these are
good things to strive for. AndNomome does have a couple issues
(07:02):
with it, though. And one ofthem, as if I could look out my
window right now, can see thatpeak bloom for a lot of the
flowering plants in my lawn, thedandelions, most certainly,
they've already gone to seed inmy lawn, and it is the April. So
bloom peak bloom has happenedfor dandelions in my lawn.
Violets are blooming right now.I can see that creeping Charlie
(07:26):
beginning to, build up its,energy to begin blooming here,
so that won't be long. Cloverwill be, blooming here not not
not too long. And so we have alot of plants that have already
hit that peak in my lawn, atleast, here in Macomb, Illinois
in April. So should it should weif this was a program that
(07:51):
started in England with adifferent climate, maybe it's
more better to say no moreApril, but I still have problems
with that.
I don't know. Ken, what dothink? No more April? What what
what else is there?
Ken Johnson (08:05):
Yeah. Think I think a lot of it will depend on on
where you're at. So we'retalking about Illinois here.
Illinois is, what, 300 mileslong. So we've got, what, three
and a half growing zones we'recovering.
So Southern Illinois, I mean,lot of this stuff's done, you
know, in Jacksonville.Dandelions, there's still some
dandelions bloom. The otherdone, for the most part,
creeping Charlie's blooming. Youknow, the henbit and all those
(08:27):
other early spring things areare finishing up. So and clover,
you know, depending on whereyou're at in the state, maybe
May, late May, June before thatstarts moving.
So you're missing that windowfor for when you're not mowing.
So and while it may work, Idon't know the timing, in The
UK. I've never been there.Never, honestly, never looked to
(08:50):
see when things bloom there. Butso it may work in in The UK.
The Nomo may, that timing maywork for them. But it doesn't
work here, in the Illinois and alot of the Midwest where the
timing is is off, I guess.
Chris Enroth (09:03):
I I would say, Ken, your complexion would lend
well to a vacation in The UK,but you keep going down to the
beach to Florida. So just keepthat sunscreen on hand. And the
the other the the big thing, atleast from, like, a lawn care or
(09:23):
a a plant health standpoint, isletting your turf grass grow and
grow and grow. I mean, we'retalking depending on your
species, Kentucky bluegrass,your fescues, rye grout, any of
that. I mean, we're talkinganywhere it could get from,
like, six inches tall, 10 inchestall, 12 inches tall, you know,
(09:43):
some very vigorously grown,especially if you fertilize
them, they grow up to fourteen,fifteen, 16, 18 inches tall.
So you're talking almost twofeet worth of of grass, long
grass. And what is occurring atthat point, these are cool
season grasses that we grow inIllinois. They are preparing for
(10:07):
summer, for stress, for hot, dryweather, and this is the canopy
that they think that they willhave. And then we come along and
we cut it all down from, like,15 inches tall down to, like,
three to four inches tall. Andthat is incredibly stressful to
(10:27):
the plant.
It has lost a ton ofphotosynthetic ability when we
do that. It's not able togenerate as much food as it had
had prior. It opens up that soilmore, that that base of that
plant, which was formallyprotected from kind of more
harsher wind and and andsunlight. And when you and this
(10:48):
happens to me a lot. Actually,it's happening to me right now.
I have not been able to mow mygrass for, like, a week, and
it's, like, gone. It's a jungleout there right now. I know that
when I mow it, it's going tolook just puny, stunted. It's
gonna get off color, and we weknow that this is stressful to
the plant. And so we have thiswhat's called the one third
(11:09):
rule.
And the idea here is to notremove more than one third of
the leaf blade at any onemowing. This is a long
established, idea behind, youknow, cutting vegetation,
something that has beenestablished since we started
mowing hay fields, you know,with sites and knowing that, you
know, how much that we needed tocut off that wouldn't stunt or
(11:32):
affect the plant so that itcould continue to produce, you
know, forage for animals. And sowe know that that this one third
rule is sort of a wellestablished fact to use in our
lawn mowing care, in our lawncare practices. So, yeah,
letting it grow way up high,chopping it down, very stressful
(11:53):
through our lawns.
Ken Johnson (11:55):
Well, like you mentioned, though, this is peak
grass growing time right now.So, you know, this time of year,
when it's maybe not getting intothe almost 90, but whenever or
more typical temperatures andwe're getting rain like we
normally would in the springfairly often, you may be mowing
your grass two or three times aweek if you're gonna do that
(12:15):
rule of the third. So to go awhole month, again, like you
said, it's gonna be some prettydrastic reductions to that. And
if you've ever mowed a grassthat's really tall, I mean,
you're just gonna kinda patchy,when you cut it that low. You're
you're gonna have to break upall those clippings, so that's
gonna be extra work there.
And, typically, we'rerecommending returning those
(12:35):
clippings to the ground becausethat's gonna be, what, a pound
of nitrogen per thousand squarefeet something like that by
returning that throughout theyear. So you're you're gonna
have to remove those clippingsbecause they're gonna be too
long. They're not gonna breakdown. You're gonna smother, the
turf you do have. You'reremoving that nitrogen.
You're removing the some of thatnutrition, that they're gonna
need. So I guess on multiplelevels, letting it get that long
(13:00):
is probably not a good idea. Andnow you're gonna be slowly
cutting it down, and that'sgonna take some time to do that.
Mhmm. If your mower can eve ifyou can even set your mower deck
that high.
Chris Enroth (13:13):
I I know. You have to don't
Ken Johnson (13:16):
know if it's
Chris Enroth (13:16):
possible. Yeah. Oh, be careful, Ken. You're
starting to sound like a turfgrass person here. So might get
asked to do a couple lawn talkshere.
Ken Johnson (13:28):
You've rubbed off on me.
Chris Enroth (13:32):
Well, let's get back into your realm of things
because let's talk pollinators.Let's talk about the if we want
to leave some of these floweringplants go in our lawns, let's
talk about dandelions. These arevery common plants. I believe
the common name for dandelion isthe common dandelion. And so
(13:56):
it's everywhere.
It's originally hails fromEurasia, Europe, Asia part of
the world. It's pretty muchestablished here in North
America, all over the place, andfrequents home lawns. It is
probably the weed that most homelawn caregivers love to to hate.
(14:18):
They love to battle dandelion.They make tools to kill
dandelion.
There's all there's a wholemarket for this thing, this
plant. So our dandelions, ifthey're bad for lawns, which I
don't think they necessarilyare, but are they good for our
bees?
Ken Johnson (14:39):
Let's say it it depends.
Chris Enroth (14:41):
So It depends.
Ken Johnson (14:44):
So when we think about our, I guess, our our
stereotypical ideal lawn, whichare no varies depending on who
you are. When we think aboutour, you know, what we see in in
movies and stuff, you know, nicegreen turf, no weeds. You know,
in a situation like that wherewe've got dandelions blooming,
(15:05):
that'd be good for pollinatorsbecause there's nothing else
there for them to eat. That's afloral resource, the nectar and
the pollen, where nothing elseis available. That's an option
for stuff.
For dandelions, like you said,they're native to Europe and
Asia, not to North America. Sothey may not be necessarily the
best for for our native beespecies. Think when we had,
(15:26):
swirle axemi on a couple weeksago. I remember if we talked
about this in the recording orif this was before or after we
were talking about it. But, youknow, sometimes the honey bees
and stuff, they are attracted tothose European Asian flower
species because that's whattheir their native range, not
North America.
So they're maybe preferentiallygo to those, compared to our
(15:48):
native species of flowers, andvice versa. So while they can't
provide the resources, they theymay not be the best. And even
think for honeybees, you know,the the amino acids, and the
pollen, which is what they'regoing after, may not be the
best, may not fit all theirnutritional needs, for them.
(16:08):
Looking before this, we cameacross a paper, and I'll just
read read the abstractors.There's there's definitely more
detail in the the article.
So this is fitness costs andbenefits of a non native floral
resource for subalpine solitarybees. So this this study was
done in Colorado in the RockyMountains, so different bee
(16:28):
species than we would have here,but would still probably, I
would imagine, hold true to someof our native bee species. So
bees that used at least some ofsome non native teraxicum, which
is the genus for dandelions,pollen produced more potentially
viable offspring, but larvalsurvival was significantly
reduced for bee larvaeexperimentally fed provisions
(16:51):
dominated by teraxacum pollen.Therefore, survival costs may
indicate the potential fitnessbenefits of early nesting,
indicating that non nativefloral resources non native
floral resource use may act asan ecological trap for native
bees. So, basically, thesedandelions are blooming earlier,
which allows the the bees tocollect that pollen.
(17:12):
They have more offspring. Whenthe offspring are feeding on
that pollen, it's it's, forwhatever reason, not meeting
that nutritional need, andthey're not surviving as well.
So while they it can't supportthem, it's not giving them what
they need in the case of thebees in this study.
Chris Enroth (17:31):
Yeah. It it definitely you there are some
some studies that do look atdandelion pollen. I came across
this nineteen eighty seven one,so it's older. But it hasn't
been retracted at least, youknow, it's it's still current.
Talking about how dandelionpollen is lacking certain amino
(17:52):
acids.
When it comes to specificallyhoneybee nutritional diets. So
we're not necessarily looking atnative bees. We're looking at
honeybees for that particularstudy, that it lacks certain
amino acids and and reportedthat they have poor brood
rearing capability when justexposed to dandelion pollen
because of this, amino aciddeficiency. So it seems like it
(18:20):
might maybe dandelions aren'tthe best thing to eat, but it is
food for our our pollinators.And you'll see lots of insects
on dandelion flowers.
I will say that. When I'mwalking through a field of
dandelions, you know, if youlook down, you see all manner,
shape, size, species, you know,of of insects on those flowers.
Ken Johnson (18:42):
Yeah. I see, lady beetles, especially the the
native pink spot lady beetle onthem a lot, because those and a
lot of lady beetles willsupplement their diet. So
they're feeding on insects andstuff, but they will supplement
their diet especially early inthe year with pollen when a lot
of these what we would considerpest insects aren't out yet. The
populations aren't very high, sothey're supplementing with
pollen until their, I guess,their preferred, food source is
(19:08):
out. So it's not onlypollinators, but other things.
And, like, idea, something'sbetter than nothing.
Chris Enroth (19:15):
That's right. Well, I guess speaking of
providing something, what can wedo then to provide these early
season pollen resources? Becausethat's really the concept of of
no mow may is it's early in inthe the growing season. There's
not well, it there's not as muchblooming as, say, later on in
(19:36):
the summer. And, we just wannaprovide some resources for our
pollinators.
And our lawns, we so many peoplehave lawns. We have so much lawn
in The United States. I I'veheard all manner of estimates.
You know, some people say it'sas big as the state of
California. I think the one thatI've used, it's as big as the
(19:58):
state of New York.
I've heard it's as big as theregion of New England. I don't
know what to believe anymore,other than there's a lot. It's
big. And every time I read oneof these, ideas of our estimate
of the size of lawn, there'sthey're saying this is a
conservative estimate. We're notwe're only taking into an
account, you know you know,certain areas of land.
(20:23):
But we know that when we go outinto the rural parts of the
country, roadsides are beingmowed, you know, large swaths,
large pasture areas are beingmowed or kept as lawns and not
necessarily as pasture. And sothere's a lot of mowing going
on. There's a lot of lawns thatprobably aren't being accounted
for. So let's just say there's alot. And then the numbers vary
(20:47):
on what a lot is.
Ken Johnson (20:49):
Isn't it the the largest crop in The US?
Chris Enroth (20:52):
It's the largest irrigated irrigated crop in The
US. Yes. We dedicate moreresources, water resources to
our lawns than any other crop.
Ken Johnson (21:06):
So It's a nice It's a big deal. Yeah. So yeah. So
there's, you know, there's a lotof things we can and we think
about it, you know, if so saywe're we're gonna do no mow may
because we're we want thepollinators. So June 1 comes
around, we cut their ass.
Cut all the flowers off. Nowwhat? If you don't have any
other flowers, why'd you do it?Because they're not gonna stick
around. You don't have no food.
(21:27):
So you've, you know, you'veyou've potentially drawn them in
to some extent, but then you getrid of all their food, and
they're gone. So I get yeah. Sonot only early in the season for
this, but then continuing itthroughout the year. So we have
those resources. So it's, youknow, creating pollinator
gardens, and there's all kindsof resources out there.
(21:51):
And you got the Illinoispollinator website, which has
got that plant selector tool,you can go and select stuff for
bloom color, bloom time, sunexposure, solar requirements,
all that fun stuff. But for,like, early blooming stuff so if
if we wanna provide this stuffwhen we would be doing no Mow
May or or even before. So, youknow, earlier this year, we did
(22:13):
a spring ephemeral podcast, allof that stuff, you know, spring
bluebells, trilliums, you nameit all. Those those ephemerals,
would fit the bill there. We getstart getting more prairie
plants.
I've got golden Alexander's, inmy yard. It's starting to bloom,
(22:33):
now, so that's an an earlierone. I'm trying to think some
other real early, notnecessarily ephemerals.
Chris Enroth (22:43):
I think Prairie Smoke is one of them that I see
advocated for a lot. Earlybloomer for, like, Prairie or a
full sun setting. And there'sshooting star. That's also an
ephemeral, though. So, but,yeah, there's there there are
some early blooming plants outthere, resources.
(23:06):
And and we we can no. Yeah.Trees. Yeah. We didn't even talk
about trees.
Ken Johnson (23:10):
Or look.
Chris Enroth (23:11):
Yeah. Look up.
Ken Johnson (23:12):
The woody stuff, the trees and shrubs. I mean,
we've got all kinds of springblooming trees. Those are bread
buds, dogwood, magnolias,maples. We're real early in the
year. Shrubs and then my spicebush.
Mhmm. I think it's probably doneby now blooming. But but
there's, I guess, a lot of otherthings that are blooming.
(23:37):
They're not herbaceous. Again,and as I just demonstrated, I'm
guilty all the time of notthinking of the the woody stuff.
But, like, when you think aboutthe trees and stuff, those are
big plants. They produce a lotof flowers, a lot of resources.
One, you know, one redbud tree,which is an Ontario big tree, is
gonna provide a whole heck of alot more floor resources than,
(24:01):
you know, thirty, fortybluebells. Mhmm.
Chris Enroth (24:04):
Oh, I agree. Oh, I can't believe we almost skipped
over trees there. Thankgoodness, Ken. Interesting. So
before the show, we were talkingabout, you know, looking at some
of the research, and also I tolda story about the two
entomologists having an argumentat a program I was at about the
(24:25):
the use of pollinators in windpollinated plants.
Specifically, they're talkingabout shade trees, and it was
just really interesting watchingtwo very smart people argue with
each other. You can go onYouTube and find two dumb people
argue all the time, but watchingtwo smart people, that's quite a
show. It's hard to findsometimes. I don't know. Can you
(24:50):
find it on here, Ken?
I'm not sure. You one smartperson talking to a dumb guy in
Macomb. I
Ken Johnson (24:57):
don't know if we've really ever argued on the show.
Chris Enroth (24:59):
Oh, let's get to it.
Ken Johnson (25:01):
Maybe that'll be next week.
Chris Enroth (25:02):
Next week. I'll let I'll find something that you
disagree with, and I'll I'llargue the counterpoint even if I
agree with you. Make itinteresting. But, anyway, these
these two etymologists, they'retalking about, you know, in a
lack where where there islacking pollen resources that
are typical that a pollinatorwould visit. When those are
(25:24):
lacking, especially in, like, anurban or developed area, you
know, if there are shade treesnearby that are flowering in
bloom, even if they are windpollinated, pollinators will go
to those flowers and collectthat pollen because it's still
pollen.
It's still protein. It's stillfood for them. And it was just
(25:44):
interesting listening to therepertoire because the other one
was just saying, like, we don'thave enough research to say this
explicitly, like, these treesare important for pollinators
because we don't we just don'tknow. Like, we need to do more
looking into this before we cango out and start shouting to the
world, you know, you know, ourwind pollinated shade trees are
(26:08):
important to bees, and andbutterflies and moths and all
the other pollinators out there.Even though I'm sure you can eye
a red maple.
And I have heard the the treeitself just buzzing or not a red
maple. I'm sorry. An ash tree. Idon't know what I'm saying. Been
underneath a green ash.
That's what I'm trying to say.And the tree itself has just
(26:29):
been buzzing. Like, there's,like, a And you
Ken Johnson (26:33):
just
Chris Enroth (26:33):
know that there's insects up there doing their
thing. And that's just there'sjust a lack of pollen and
resources. They're turning towhat they can't.
Ken Johnson (26:43):
Yeah. You know, anecdotally, I have, in my
backyard, a sweet corn. Mhmm. Ialways you now I usually see
several bees on that. I mean,I've still got quite a few
flowers in my yard, but they'restill visiting that and collect
I can see them collecting pollenoff of those plants.
So, like I said, you can'tnecessarily and I've never
(27:03):
really searched for this, butdon't think there's a whole lot
of studies, if any, that reallylooks at those wind pollinated
plants and and their utilizationfor pollen.
Chris Enroth (27:13):
Yeah. And I think that was the big debate. You
know? Some someone just thegoing back and forth on things
they kind of know already, butnothing that we can back up with
that scientific evidence. Somaybe they went off and did the
research.
Let's hope they didn't hear me.Haven't published it yet. Oh,
(27:36):
oh, there's there is one thingthat I I do this every year
because I I have my my patchesin my lawn where I know I'm
going to have a lot of violets.So there's a part of my lawn.
There's gonna be a there a tonof violets there.
I have my clover area. I've I'vegot my creeping Charlie area. So
(27:59):
I have these different patches.And when they are in full bloom
so, like, right now, the violetsare in full bloom, I just don't
mow them. And it's April, sowe're not in May.
It's going to get mowed in Maybecause the violets the blooms
are going to start waning, butalso the grass is gonna start
growing over it and and chokingout those those violets. And I
(28:23):
kind of want that foliage to beopen more to the sunlight so
that it can photosynthesize andgive me more violets. So in a
way, I'm kind of making it sothat the grass is not as
competitive to the violets. If Iwould let it grow a little bit
taller, I might be able to chokeout those violets. So hint,
hint, people wanting to controlthese plants in their lawn, just
mow higher, and you'll create amore competitive grass plant to
(28:48):
something like a dandelion or aviolet.
But anyway, I I do what I callselective mowing. I used to call
it drunken mowing because itlooks like like what kind of
pattern is this guy following.But I don't say that anymore
because I don't want people tothink that I'm, like like,
belligerently drunk mowing thelawn in random patterns. So,
(29:11):
yeah, I I mow selectively. Iavoid some of those patches when
they're in full bloom except forwell, creeping Charlie, I'll hit
that one because you can be meanto creeping Charlie, and it
doesn't care.
It's it's okay with it. It'lljust bloom again and keep
spreading.
Ken Johnson (29:26):
He'll be back. And another thing, you know, so you
got so, like, if you could alsolook at mowing less frequently.
So maybe not going a wholemonth, going a week or a couple
weeks, in between mowing. Sothere's some research done in
Massachusetts where they cutlawns at, one week, two week,
and three week intervals just tosee and look at, the number of
(29:49):
flowers and the number ofpollinators visiting those. They
found that lawns mowed every twoweeks, had more bees present,
than those mowed every week.
And then the lawns that weremowed every three weeks had more
flowers, but fewer bees, andthere could be several reasons
for that. One could have beengrasses are getting taller,
obstructing some of the flowers.They're collecting these bees by
(30:12):
pan traps. So their pans arepainted yellow or blue. They
stick them out there.
Well, good when there's so manyflowers, they weren't going to
those pan traps. So therethere's a couple reasons why
there could have been fewerbees, at least bees that they
collected and stuff. So but,again, mowing it less
frequently, you let some ofthose flowers bloom and you got
(30:33):
those resources for those thosebees potentially.
Chris Enroth (30:39):
You know, come to think of it, I did a a program
the other day. The idea of nomow make came up. A question was
asked, and this person wanted todo it. And so I said, well, do
you have any weeds in your lawn?And they said, no.
(30:59):
I don't have any weeds. Like,well, then there's no reason to
do it because the weeds are theflowers that the bees and
pollinators will come in andvisit. So if your lawn is
immaculate, there's no reason toskip mowing the lawn. Like Ken
said, just carve out lawn andput in some pollinator gardens.
Ken Johnson (31:20):
Yeah. We don't have to get rid of the whole lawn.
We've talked about it before onthe show. There's there's
purposes for lawns, you know,especially if you wanna recreate
in your your backyard or frontyard, depending if you're a
front yard or backyard person.You know, a lot of our other
ground covers are not gonna havethe wear tolerance that turf is
gonna have.
So there's there's nothing wrongwith having some turf. Do we
(31:43):
need as much turf as we have ina lot of our lawns? Probably
not. But you don't have to ripeverything out and do all
pollinator stuff.
Chris Enroth (31:51):
There you go. That's the message. Drive it
home. Mow high, mow often, keepthose blades sharp. Every time
we're talking about lawns, wehave to say that.
It's, in our contract that wedon't have.
Ken Johnson (32:04):
Richard made us promise before he He did.
Chris Enroth (32:07):
He did. He said, if you promise, promise it. So
we do.
Ken Johnson (32:12):
I guess so. You know, we talk about, you know,
providing flowers. But, again,you know, going a little
further, you know, we get intogarden cleanup and and
maintaining those our pollinatorplantings or or what have you.
So not being in a real big hurryto clean up, leaving stuff away
in the fall or the winter, forthat overwintering habitat, not
(32:37):
being in too big of a hurry toclean up, in the spring. And,
ideally, we're waiting until andmost of the guidelines are mid
May.
You know, stuff may still becoming out throughout the year,
but majority of stuff is gonnaprobably be out by mid May. We
are cleaning it up. If you arecleaning it up early, putting it
in an out of the way area, notshredding it or composting it in
(32:58):
case there is still somethingoverwintering in stems on leaf
material, what have you. So,again Mhmm. It's it's it's great
to provide the flowers, but weneed to provide that other
habitat too.
I guess that's I guess that'sthe next level, is providing
that other habitat, theoverwintering areas, nesting
habitat, not eliminating thoseplaces from our landscapes.
Chris Enroth (33:24):
Yeah. I I would say in the most visible spots in
my yard, I I cut the the stemsfrom last year, and I just drop
them on the ground right next towhere I I cut them. You know?
It'll break down eventually.Free compost.
And if there are any insects inthere, hopefully, they'll, you
know, utilize those stems. Maybesomeone can come back and
utilize them even still. Youknow, you can even cut your
(33:46):
stuff a little higher so youhave, like, twelve, eighteen
inch cut stems that usually getsmasked by that foliage that
grows up then that year. Yeah.There there's no one way to do
all of this.
It's your yard. It's you havepermission to to do things that
make you happy so long as itdoesn't harm other people. So
(34:09):
that's important. Or or the thegreater environment. So, yeah,
the old adage of do no harm.
Yes.
Ken Johnson (34:17):
Yes. Just keep it maintained well enough at the
city or township or whoever'snot gonna come after you.
Chris Enroth (34:22):
So you don't have to pay any legal fees. Mhmm.
That's the goal. But stillpushing a lot of that sedges and
violets. I love violets.
It's probably that is one of myfavorite plants. People hate
that plant too, but I love it inthe lawn. I love it in my garden
(34:42):
bed. I love it in, like,landscape beds as a ground
cover. The whole yard can becovered in violets, and I would
be fine with it.
Ken Johnson (34:51):
Yeah. Good good chunk of my yard is is violets.
Chris Enroth (34:54):
Mhmm. You have a favorite a favorite lawn plant?
Ken Johnson (34:58):
Favorite lawn? Yeah. Long as it's green.
Chris Enroth (35:03):
There you go.
Ken Johnson (35:04):
And and not nimble well for whatever reason. I
don't I don't like that one forwhatever reason. I don't know.
Chris Enroth (35:10):
I'm coming around on nimble Will. It's everywhere
in my lawn, and it's just it'staking over
Ken Johnson (35:16):
so much. It's getting to that point where I'm
gonna have to start liking itbecause I don't dislike it
enough to do anything about it.
Chris Enroth (35:23):
Mhmm. There you go. Yes. Well, that was a lot of
great information about NoMoMay.Well, the GoodVrying podcast is
a production of University ofIllinois Extension edited this
week by Ken Johnson.
Ken, thank you for both editingand hanging out with me today
discussing the the virtues of NoMow Me, but also pointing out a
(35:47):
lot of the flaws that areassociated with this idea. And
again, maybe we just need tobump it back to like mid March
to mid April. Mo. But thatdoesn't roll off the tongue so
easily as No Mow May does.
Ken Johnson (36:03):
Yeah. I'd say, yeah, just be be lazy much
longer. You know, cut it beforeyou get in trouble, but it's
okay to let it grow a little bitlonger. And you don't have to
have the perfect life you want,if you don't want to. If you
don't wanna have it.
Chris Enroth (36:17):
That's right. If it's green, it's good as Ken
said.
Ken Johnson (36:21):
Yes. And thank you as always and let's do this
again next week.
Chris Enroth (36:26):
Oh, we shall do this again next week. The
horticultural hijinks continuesthe summer of twenty twenty
five. I say summer because it'sso hot or has been so warm. It's
still spring folks, but my mindis already propelled to tomatoes
and peppers and all the goodiesthat are are just around the
corner. So listeners, thank youfor doing what you do best and
(36:46):
that is listening or if you'rewatching this on YouTube,
watching.
And as always, keep on growing.Well, we'll figure that out this
(37:06):
week. Okay.
Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris
Enroth, horticulture educatorwith University of Illinois
Extension coming at you fromMacomb, Illinois, and we have
got a great show for you today.Look at the calendar. The end of
April means no mow May is rightaround the corner. But should we
not be mowing our lawns orshould we be mowing our lawns in
(00:26):
the month of May?
Well, we will figure that out onthis week's episode, but you
know I'm not doing this bymyself. I am joined as always
every single week byhorticulture educator Ken
Johnson and Jacksonville. Hey,Ken.
Ken Johnson (00:37):
Hello, Chris. I guess by the time people listen
to this, it will be May. So Iguess it will be time to
continue no mowing or continueor start mowing.
Chris Enroth (00:46):
I Ken, am I the only one does this happen to you
when you hear that the month isabout to change, panic sets in,
especially in the springtime.
Ken Johnson (00:59):
Yeah. Particularly this year. This year seemed to
go by incredibly fast.
Chris Enroth (01:03):
Yeah. I I don't remember there being a spring.
It was 80 some degreesyesterday. It was pushing 90.
Not quite, but it was pushingthat here in Macomb.
Everyone was super hot, and nowit's, like, 60 degrees, and I
got a hoodie on. I'm cold now.It's it's it's it's ruined me.
We're practically in summer.
Ken Johnson (01:24):
So I haven't gotten to build up my heat tolerance
yet. Not that that's ever veryhigh, but there's there's no
gradual increase anymore.
Chris Enroth (01:33):
No. There's not. It's just straight into the
furnace of the year. Oh, well,maybe this is a timely topic
then. We talk about NoMoMay.
You know, we NoMoMay is supposedto be a thing that occurs in the
springtime. And I I've beenmarking spring weather by this
annual event that I've beendoing now since 2021. It's not a
(01:56):
very long time, but it seemslike every year this happens the
May. It is our first greatenvironmental day. Never fails.
We hit 90 that week. It's sohot. Kids are miserable. The
speakers are parched. You know,I'm going to each station giving
(02:17):
water to everybody, and it looksto be like it's gonna be another
hot one next week that whenwe're doing this.
So I don't know, Ken. Is itgetting hotter, or is it just
me?
Ken Johnson (02:29):
Well, it seems like it's getting hotter. I don't I I
mean, well, I guess last severalyears, we've it's been seems
like we're getting warmernormal. Warmer earlier than,
quote, unquote, normal, butmaybe this is the new normal.
Well,
Chris Enroth (02:45):
okay. I guess, well, let's see how this all
plays into Novo May. So firstoff, we do have an article that
you wrote, Ken. We can link thatbelow. So folks, you know,
prefer to read more about thisas opposed to listening to us
patter on for hours, you we willleave that link below in the
show description.
(03:05):
But, Ken, what is No Mo May? Isit as as I expect it to be?
Ken Johnson (03:12):
Yes. Yes. It's it's exactly what the name says. So
no mow may. So the idea is, wedon't mow our lawns in the month
of May.
The idea behind this so thisstarted in, The United Kingdom
in 2019 as the idea was to helppollinator populations because
we as we've heard been hearingfor for many years now, their
populations are struggling,pollinator declines, all of that
(03:34):
stuff. So if we don't mow ourlawns in the month of May,
that's supposed to increase theamount of, quote, unquote, weeds
that are blooming, providing afood source for these
pollinators. So kind of the kindof the two, I guess, main goal.
I think the primary goal isproviding those food sources.
And then a secondary goal that Ithink has been kinda tagged on,
over time is reducing thatcarbon footprint.
(03:56):
Say majority of people areprobably mowing their lawns with
gas powered, lawn mowers. Andeven if you're using an electric
one, that electricity is comingfrom somewhere. In a lot of
places, that's gonna be, coal,gas, some fossil fuel, providing
that electricity. So increasedfood for pollinators and with
(04:17):
the secondary benefit ofreducing carbon footprint, at
least for that that month ofMay.
Chris Enroth (04:23):
Well and I I can see how something like this
would catch on and be popularbecause you are you're saying to
folks, hey. Don't do something.Skip doing this thing to help.
How attractive that would be?Like, hey.
If I want to save the thepollinators, I just have to not
(04:44):
do something. And, yeah, I guessI see the appeal behind that and
maybe how that really did catchon. You know, we do get asked a
lot this time of year about theconcept of no may. Does it work?
Is it something that isbeneficial to pollinators?
There actually have been studiesthat have been done. You know,
(05:04):
one in particular, it's titledNo Mow May Lawns Have Higher
Pollinator Richness andAbundances. This is an engaged
community or sorry, subtitle isAn engaged community provides
floral resources forpollinators. So there have been
studies that have been done. Nowinterestingly, though, this
study that I just read the titleof, it has been retracted,
(05:26):
finding out that there areprobably some flaws here in some
of that research or maybemethodology and how they went
about that.
And so where a lot of peopleused to point to this and say,
hey. Look. This is helping.Nope. Not can't point to that
anymore because that that is nolonger a published article.
You can still find it online,but it would have a big red
(05:48):
letters of retracted above thetitle if you're getting it,
accessing it from the actualpublisher.
Ken Johnson (05:54):
Yeah. And basically, that retracted means,
like, basically, this articlenever existed. Mhmm. That thing
if I remember right, rememberpart of it was the the species
of bees they were identifyingwere not found. This is done in
Wisconsin.
We're not found in Wisconsin.Never have been. I think there
were some other pretty seriousflaws that went along with it,
(06:17):
which is why they ended upretracting it. So, you know,
like you said, that that has hadbeen kind of the the study
people pointed to the most. Youknow, so that's not there.
And I'd say just because it'snot there doesn't mean
necessarily bad, but there'sjust not necessarily any
research here, at least in inThe United States that I think
that we know of, that points toit being a good thing.
Chris Enroth (06:40):
Yeah. Yeah. And I guess, yeah, we we should just
let people know, like, the ideabehind NoMoMae, it is it is a
good thing. You know? We want totry to help pollinators.
We want to to try to reduce ourcarbon footprint. So these are
good things to strive for. AndNomome does have a couple issues
(07:02):
with it, though. And one ofthem, as if I could look out my
window right now, can see thatpeak bloom for a lot of the
flowering plants in my lawn, thedandelions, most certainly,
they've already gone to seed inmy lawn, and it is the April. So
bloom peak bloom has happenedfor dandelions in my lawn.
Violets are blooming right now.I can see that creeping Charlie
(07:26):
beginning to, build up its,energy to begin blooming here,
so that won't be long. Cloverwill be, blooming here not not
not too long. And so we have alot of plants that have already
hit that peak in my lawn, atleast, here in Macomb, Illinois
in April. So should it should weif this was a program that
(07:51):
started in England with adifferent climate, maybe it's
more better to say no moreApril, but I still have problems
with that.
I don't know. Ken, what dothink? No more April? What what
what else is there?
Ken Johnson (08:05):
Yeah. Think I think a lot of it will depend on on
where you're at. So we'retalking about Illinois here.
Illinois is, what, 300 mileslong. So we've got, what, three
and a half growing zones we'recovering.
So Southern Illinois, I mean,lot of this stuff's done, you
know, in Jacksonville.Dandelions, there's still some
dandelions bloom. The otherdone, for the most part,
creeping Charlie's blooming. Youknow, the henbit and all those
(08:27):
other early spring things areare finishing up. So and clover,
you know, depending on whereyou're at in the state, maybe
May, late May, June before thatstarts moving.
So you're missing that windowfor for when you're not mowing.
So and while it may work, Idon't know the timing, in The
UK. I've never been there.Never, honestly, never looked to
(08:50):
see when things bloom there. Butso it may work in in The UK.
The Nomo may, that timing maywork for them. But it doesn't
work here, in the Illinois and alot of the Midwest where the
timing is is off, I guess.
Chris Enroth (09:03):
I I would say, Ken, your complexion would lend
well to a vacation in The UK,but you keep going down to the
beach to Florida. So just keepthat sunscreen on hand. And the
the other the the big thing, atleast from, like, a lawn care or
(09:23):
a a plant health standpoint, isletting your turf grass grow and
grow and grow. I mean, we'retalking depending on your
species, Kentucky bluegrass,your fescues, rye grout, any of
that. I mean, we're talkinganywhere it could get from,
like, six inches tall, 10 inchestall, 12 inches tall, you know,
(09:43):
some very vigorously grown,especially if you fertilize
them, they grow up to fourteen,fifteen, 16, 18 inches tall.
So you're talking almost twofeet worth of of grass, long
grass. And what is occurring atthat point, these are cool
season grasses that we grow inIllinois. They are preparing for
(10:07):
summer, for stress, for hot, dryweather, and this is the canopy
that they think that they willhave. And then we come along and
we cut it all down from, like,15 inches tall down to, like,
three to four inches tall. Andthat is incredibly stressful to
(10:27):
the plant.
It has lost a ton ofphotosynthetic ability when we
do that. It's not able togenerate as much food as it had
had prior. It opens up that soilmore, that that base of that
plant, which was formallyprotected from kind of more
harsher wind and and andsunlight. And when you and this
(10:48):
happens to me a lot. Actually,it's happening to me right now.
I have not been able to mow mygrass for, like, a week, and
it's, like, gone. It's a jungleout there right now. I know that
when I mow it, it's going tolook just puny, stunted. It's
gonna get off color, and we weknow that this is stressful to
the plant. And so we have thiswhat's called the one third
(11:09):
rule.
And the idea here is to notremove more than one third of
the leaf blade at any onemowing. This is a long
established, idea behind, youknow, cutting vegetation,
something that has beenestablished since we started
mowing hay fields, you know,with sites and knowing that, you
know, how much that we needed tocut off that wouldn't stunt or
(11:32):
affect the plant so that itcould continue to produce, you
know, forage for animals. And sowe know that that this one third
rule is sort of a wellestablished fact to use in our
lawn mowing care, in our lawncare practices. So, yeah,
letting it grow way up high,chopping it down, very stressful
(11:53):
through our lawns.
Ken Johnson (11:55):
Well, like you mentioned, though, this is peak
grass growing time right now.So, you know, this time of year,
when it's maybe not getting intothe almost 90, but whenever or
more typical temperatures andwe're getting rain like we
normally would in the springfairly often, you may be mowing
your grass two or three times aweek if you're gonna do that
(12:15):
rule of the third. So to go awhole month, again, like you
said, it's gonna be some prettydrastic reductions to that. And
if you've ever mowed a grassthat's really tall, I mean,
you're just gonna kinda patchy,when you cut it that low. You're
you're gonna have to break upall those clippings, so that's
gonna be extra work there.
And, typically, we'rerecommending returning those
(12:35):
clippings to the ground becausethat's gonna be, what, a pound
of nitrogen per thousand squarefeet something like that by
returning that throughout theyear. So you're you're gonna
have to remove those clippingsbecause they're gonna be too
long. They're not gonna breakdown. You're gonna smother, the
turf you do have. You'reremoving that nitrogen.
You're removing the some of thatnutrition, that they're gonna
need. So I guess on multiplelevels, letting it get that long
(13:00):
is probably not a good idea. Andnow you're gonna be slowly
cutting it down, and that'sgonna take some time to do that.
Mhmm. If your mower can eve ifyou can even set your mower deck
that high.
Chris Enroth (13:13):
I I know. You have to don't
Ken Johnson (13:16):
know if it's
Chris Enroth (13:16):
possible. Yeah. Oh, be careful, Ken. You're
starting to sound like a turfgrass person here. So might get
asked to do a couple lawn talkshere.
Ken Johnson (13:28):
You've rubbed off on me.
Chris Enroth (13:32):
Well, let's get back into your realm of things
because let's talk pollinators.Let's talk about the if we want
to leave some of these floweringplants go in our lawns, let's
talk about dandelions. These arevery common plants. I believe
the common name for dandelion isthe common dandelion. And so
(13:56):
it's everywhere.
It's originally hails fromEurasia, Europe, Asia part of
the world. It's pretty muchestablished here in North
America, all over the place, andfrequents home lawns. It is
probably the weed that most homelawn caregivers love to to hate.
(14:18):
They love to battle dandelion.They make tools to kill
dandelion.
There's all there's a wholemarket for this thing, this
plant. So our dandelions, ifthey're bad for lawns, which I
don't think they necessarilyare, but are they good for our
bees?
Ken Johnson (14:39):
Let's say it it depends.
Chris Enroth (14:41):
So It depends.
Ken Johnson (14:44):
So when we think about our, I guess, our our
stereotypical ideal lawn, whichare no varies depending on who
you are. When we think aboutour, you know, what we see in in
movies and stuff, you know, nicegreen turf, no weeds. You know,
in a situation like that wherewe've got dandelions blooming,
(15:05):
that'd be good for pollinatorsbecause there's nothing else
there for them to eat. That's afloral resource, the nectar and
the pollen, where nothing elseis available. That's an option
for stuff.
For dandelions, like you said,they're native to Europe and
Asia, not to North America. Sothey may not be necessarily the
best for for our native beespecies. Think when we had,
(15:26):
swirle axemi on a couple weeksago. I remember if we talked
about this in the recording orif this was before or after we
were talking about it. But, youknow, sometimes the honey bees
and stuff, they are attracted tothose European Asian flower
species because that's whattheir their native range, not
North America.
So they're maybe preferentiallygo to those, compared to our
(15:48):
native species of flowers, andvice versa. So while they can't
provide the resources, they theymay not be the best. And even
think for honeybees, you know,the the amino acids, and the
pollen, which is what they'regoing after, may not be the
best, may not fit all theirnutritional needs, for them.
(16:08):
Looking before this, we cameacross a paper, and I'll just
read read the abstractors.There's there's definitely more
detail in the the article.
So this is fitness costs andbenefits of a non native floral
resource for subalpine solitarybees. So this this study was
done in Colorado in the RockyMountains, so different bee
(16:28):
species than we would have here,but would still probably, I
would imagine, hold true to someof our native bee species. So
bees that used at least some ofsome non native teraxicum, which
is the genus for dandelions,pollen produced more potentially
viable offspring, but larvalsurvival was significantly
reduced for bee larvaeexperimentally fed provisions
(16:51):
dominated by teraxacum pollen.Therefore, survival costs may
indicate the potential fitnessbenefits of early nesting,
indicating that non nativefloral resources non native
floral resource use may act asan ecological trap for native
bees. So, basically, thesedandelions are blooming earlier,
which allows the the bees tocollect that pollen.
(17:12):
They have more offspring. Whenthe offspring are feeding on
that pollen, it's it's, forwhatever reason, not meeting
that nutritional need, andthey're not surviving as well.
So while they it can't supportthem, it's not giving them what
they need in the case of thebees in this study.
Chris Enroth (17:31):
Yeah. It it definitely you there are some
some studies that do look atdandelion pollen. I came across
this nineteen eighty seven one,so it's older. But it hasn't
been retracted at least, youknow, it's it's still current.
Talking about how dandelionpollen is lacking certain amino
(17:52):
acids.
When it comes to specificallyhoneybee nutritional diets. So
we're not necessarily looking atnative bees. We're looking at
honeybees for that particularstudy, that it lacks certain
amino acids and and reportedthat they have poor brood
rearing capability when justexposed to dandelion pollen
because of this, amino aciddeficiency. So it seems like it
(18:20):
might maybe dandelions aren'tthe best thing to eat, but it is
food for our our pollinators.And you'll see lots of insects
on dandelion flowers.
I will say that. When I'mwalking through a field of
dandelions, you know, if youlook down, you see all manner,
shape, size, species, you know,of of insects on those flowers.
Ken Johnson (18:42):
Yeah. I see, lady beetles, especially the the
native pink spot lady beetle onthem a lot, because those and a
lot of lady beetles willsupplement their diet. So
they're feeding on insects andstuff, but they will supplement
their diet especially early inthe year with pollen when a lot
of these what we would considerpest insects aren't out yet. The
populations aren't very high, sothey're supplementing with
pollen until their, I guess,their preferred, food source is
(19:08):
out. So it's not onlypollinators, but other things.
And, like, idea, something'sbetter than nothing.
Chris Enroth (19:15):
That's right. Well, I guess speaking of
providing something, what can wedo then to provide these early
season pollen resources? Becausethat's really the concept of of
no mow may is it's early in inthe the growing season. There's
not well, it there's not as muchblooming as, say, later on in
(19:36):
the summer. And, we just wannaprovide some resources for our
pollinators.
And our lawns, we so many peoplehave lawns. We have so much lawn
in The United States. I I'veheard all manner of estimates.
You know, some people say it'sas big as the state of
California. I think the one thatI've used, it's as big as the
(19:58):
state of New York.
I've heard it's as big as theregion of New England. I don't
know what to believe anymore,other than there's a lot. It's
big. And every time I read oneof these, ideas of our estimate
of the size of lawn, there'sthey're saying this is a
conservative estimate. We're notwe're only taking into an
account, you know you know,certain areas of land.
(20:23):
But we know that when we go outinto the rural parts of the
country, roadsides are beingmowed, you know, large swaths,
large pasture areas are beingmowed or kept as lawns and not
necessarily as pasture. And sothere's a lot of mowing going
on. There's a lot of lawns thatprobably aren't being accounted
for. So let's just say there's alot. And then the numbers vary
(20:47):
on what a lot is.
Ken Johnson (20:49):
Isn't it the the largest crop in The US?
Chris Enroth (20:52):
It's the largest irrigated irrigated crop in The
US. Yes. We dedicate moreresources, water resources to
our lawns than any other crop.
Ken Johnson (21:06):
So It's a nice It's a big deal. Yeah. So yeah. So
there's, you know, there's a lotof things we can and we think
about it, you know, if so saywe're we're gonna do no mow may
because we're we want thepollinators. So June 1 comes
around, we cut their ass.
Cut all the flowers off. Nowwhat? If you don't have any
other flowers, why'd you do it?Because they're not gonna stick
around. You don't have no food.
(21:27):
So you've, you know, you'veyou've potentially drawn them in
to some extent, but then you getrid of all their food, and
they're gone. So I get yeah. Sonot only early in the season for
this, but then continuing itthroughout the year. So we have
those resources. So it's, youknow, creating pollinator
gardens, and there's all kindsof resources out there.
(21:51):
And you got the Illinoispollinator website, which has
got that plant selector tool,you can go and select stuff for
bloom color, bloom time, sunexposure, solar requirements,
all that fun stuff. But for,like, early blooming stuff so if
if we wanna provide this stuffwhen we would be doing no Mow
May or or even before. So, youknow, earlier this year, we did
(22:13):
a spring ephemeral podcast, allof that stuff, you know, spring
bluebells, trilliums, you nameit all. Those those ephemerals,
would fit the bill there. We getstart getting more prairie
plants.
I've got golden Alexander's, inmy yard. It's starting to bloom,
(22:33):
now, so that's an an earlierone. I'm trying to think some
other real early, notnecessarily ephemerals.
Chris Enroth (22:43):
I think Prairie Smoke is one of them that I see
advocated for a lot. Earlybloomer for, like, Prairie or a
full sun setting. And there'sshooting star. That's also an
ephemeral, though. So, but,yeah, there's there there are
some early blooming plants outthere, resources.
(23:06):
And and we we can no. Yeah.Trees. Yeah. We didn't even talk
about trees.
Ken Johnson (23:10):
Or look.
Chris Enroth (23:11):
Yeah. Look up.
Ken Johnson (23:12):
The woody stuff, the trees and shrubs. I mean,
we've got all kinds of springblooming trees. Those are bread
buds, dogwood, magnolias,maples. We're real early in the
year. Shrubs and then my spicebush.
Mhmm. I think it's probably doneby now blooming. But but
there's, I guess, a lot of otherthings that are blooming.
(23:37):
They're not herbaceous. Again,and as I just demonstrated, I'm
guilty all the time of notthinking of the the woody stuff.
But, like, when you think aboutthe trees and stuff, those are
big plants. They produce a lotof flowers, a lot of resources.
One, you know, one redbud tree,which is an Ontario big tree, is
gonna provide a whole heck of alot more floor resources than,
(24:01):
you know, thirty, fortybluebells. Mhmm.
Chris Enroth (24:04):
Oh, I agree. Oh, I can't believe we almost skipped
over trees there. Thankgoodness, Ken. Interesting. So
before the show, we were talkingabout, you know, looking at some
of the research, and also I tolda story about the two
entomologists having an argumentat a program I was at about the
(24:25):
the use of pollinators in windpollinated plants.
Specifically, they're talkingabout shade trees, and it was
just really interesting watchingtwo very smart people argue with
each other. You can go onYouTube and find two dumb people
argue all the time, but watchingtwo smart people, that's quite a
show. It's hard to findsometimes. I don't know. Can you
(24:50):
find it on here, Ken?
I'm not sure. You one smartperson talking to a dumb guy in
Macomb. I
Ken Johnson (24:57):
don't know if we've really ever argued on the show.
Chris Enroth (24:59):
Oh, let's get to it.
Ken Johnson (25:01):
Maybe that'll be next week.
Chris Enroth (25:02):
Next week. I'll let I'll find something that you
disagree with, and I'll I'llargue the counterpoint even if I
agree with you. Make itinteresting. But, anyway, these
these two etymologists, they'retalking about, you know, in a
lack where where there islacking pollen resources that
are typical that a pollinatorwould visit. When those are
(25:24):
lacking, especially in, like, anurban or developed area, you
know, if there are shade treesnearby that are flowering in
bloom, even if they are windpollinated, pollinators will go
to those flowers and collectthat pollen because it's still
pollen.
It's still protein. It's stillfood for them. And it was just
(25:44):
interesting listening to therepertoire because the other one
was just saying, like, we don'thave enough research to say this
explicitly, like, these treesare important for pollinators
because we don't we just don'tknow. Like, we need to do more
looking into this before we cango out and start shouting to the
world, you know, you know, ourwind pollinated shade trees are
(26:08):
important to bees, and andbutterflies and moths and all
the other pollinators out there.Even though I'm sure you can eye
a red maple.
And I have heard the the treeitself just buzzing or not a red
maple. I'm sorry. An ash tree. Idon't know what I'm saying. Been
underneath a green ash.
That's what I'm trying to say.And the tree itself has just
(26:29):
been buzzing. Like, there's,like, a And you
Ken Johnson (26:33):
just
Chris Enroth (26:33):
know that there's insects up there doing their
thing. And that's just there'sjust a lack of pollen and
resources. They're turning towhat they can't.
Ken Johnson (26:43):
Yeah. You know, anecdotally, I have, in my
backyard, a sweet corn. Mhmm. Ialways you now I usually see
several bees on that. I mean,I've still got quite a few
flowers in my yard, but they'restill visiting that and collect
I can see them collecting pollenoff of those plants.
So, like I said, you can'tnecessarily and I've never
(27:03):
really searched for this, butdon't think there's a whole lot
of studies, if any, that reallylooks at those wind pollinated
plants and and their utilizationfor pollen.
Chris Enroth (27:13):
Yeah. And I think that was the big debate. You
know? Some someone just thegoing back and forth on things
they kind of know already, butnothing that we can back up with
that scientific evidence. Somaybe they went off and did the
research.
Let's hope they didn't hear me.Haven't published it yet. Oh,
(27:36):
oh, there's there is one thingthat I I do this every year
because I I have my my patchesin my lawn where I know I'm
going to have a lot of violets.So there's a part of my lawn.
There's gonna be a there a tonof violets there.
I have my clover area. I've I'vegot my creeping Charlie area. So
(27:59):
I have these different patches.And when they are in full bloom
so, like, right now, the violetsare in full bloom, I just don't
mow them. And it's April, sowe're not in May.
It's going to get mowed in Maybecause the violets the blooms
are going to start waning, butalso the grass is gonna start
growing over it and and chokingout those those violets. And I
(28:23):
kind of want that foliage to beopen more to the sunlight so
that it can photosynthesize andgive me more violets. So in a
way, I'm kind of making it sothat the grass is not as
competitive to the violets. If Iwould let it grow a little bit
taller, I might be able to chokeout those violets. So hint,
hint, people wanting to controlthese plants in their lawn, just
mow higher, and you'll create amore competitive grass plant to
(28:48):
something like a dandelion or aviolet.
But anyway, I I do what I callselective mowing. I used to call
it drunken mowing because itlooks like like what kind of
pattern is this guy following.But I don't say that anymore
because I don't want people tothink that I'm, like like,
belligerently drunk mowing thelawn in random patterns. So,
(29:11):
yeah, I I mow selectively. Iavoid some of those patches when
they're in full bloom except forwell, creeping Charlie, I'll hit
that one because you can be meanto creeping Charlie, and it
doesn't care.
It's it's okay with it. It'lljust bloom again and keep
spreading.
Ken Johnson (29:26):
He'll be back. And another thing, you know, so you
got so, like, if you could alsolook at mowing less frequently.
So maybe not going a wholemonth, going a week or a couple
weeks, in between mowing. Sothere's some research done in
Massachusetts where they cutlawns at, one week, two week,
and three week intervals just tosee and look at, the number of
(29:49):
flowers and the number ofpollinators visiting those. They
found that lawns mowed every twoweeks, had more bees present,
than those mowed every week.
And then the lawns that weremowed every three weeks had more
flowers, but fewer bees, andthere could be several reasons
for that. One could have beengrasses are getting taller,
obstructing some of the flowers.They're collecting these bees by
(30:12):
pan traps. So their pans arepainted yellow or blue. They
stick them out there.
Well, good when there's so manyflowers, they weren't going to
those pan traps. So therethere's a couple reasons why
there could have been fewerbees, at least bees that they
collected and stuff. So but,again, mowing it less
frequently, you let some ofthose flowers bloom and you got
(30:33):
those resources for those thosebees potentially.
Chris Enroth (30:39):
You know, come to think of it, I did a a program
the other day. The idea of nomow make came up. A question was
asked, and this person wanted todo it. And so I said, well, do
you have any weeds in your lawn?And they said, no.
(30:59):
I don't have any weeds. Like,well, then there's no reason to
do it because the weeds are theflowers that the bees and
pollinators will come in andvisit. So if your lawn is
immaculate, there's no reason toskip mowing the lawn. Like Ken
said, just carve out lawn andput in some pollinator gardens.
Ken Johnson (31:20):
Yeah. We don't have to get rid of the whole lawn.
We've talked about it before onthe show. There's there's
purposes for lawns, you know,especially if you wanna recreate
in your your backyard or frontyard, depending if you're a
front yard or backyard person.You know, a lot of our other
ground covers are not gonna havethe wear tolerance that turf is
gonna have.
So there's there's nothing wrongwith having some turf. Do we
(31:43):
need as much turf as we have ina lot of our lawns? Probably
not. But you don't have to ripeverything out and do all
pollinator stuff.
Chris Enroth (31:51):
There you go. That's the message. Drive it
home. Mow high, mow often, keepthose blades sharp. Every time
we're talking about lawns, wehave to say that.
It's, in our contract that wedon't have.
Ken Johnson (32:04):
Richard made us promise before he He did.
Chris Enroth (32:07):
He did. He said, if you promise, promise it. So
we do.
Ken Johnson (32:12):
I guess so. You know, we talk about, you know,
providing flowers. But, again,you know, going a little
further, you know, we get intogarden cleanup and and
maintaining those our pollinatorplantings or or what have you.
So not being in a real big hurryto clean up, leaving stuff away
in the fall or the winter, forthat overwintering habitat, not
(32:37):
being in too big of a hurry toclean up, in the spring. And,
ideally, we're waiting until andmost of the guidelines are mid
May.
You know, stuff may still becoming out throughout the year,
but majority of stuff is gonnaprobably be out by mid May. We
are cleaning it up. If you arecleaning it up early, putting it
in an out of the way area, notshredding it or composting it in
(32:58):
case there is still somethingoverwintering in stems on leaf
material, what have you. So,again Mhmm. It's it's it's great
to provide the flowers, but weneed to provide that other
habitat too.
I guess that's I guess that'sthe next level, is providing
that other habitat, theoverwintering areas, nesting
habitat, not eliminating thoseplaces from our landscapes.
Chris Enroth (33:24):
Yeah. I I would say in the most visible spots in
my yard, I I cut the the stemsfrom last year, and I just drop
them on the ground right next towhere I I cut them. You know?
It'll break down eventually.Free compost.
And if there are any insects inthere, hopefully, they'll, you
know, utilize those stems. Maybesomeone can come back and
utilize them even still. Youknow, you can even cut your
(33:46):
stuff a little higher so youhave, like, twelve, eighteen
inch cut stems that usually getsmasked by that foliage that
grows up then that year. Yeah.There there's no one way to do
all of this.
It's your yard. It's you havepermission to to do things that
make you happy so long as itdoesn't harm other people. So
(34:09):
that's important. Or or the thegreater environment. So, yeah,
the old adage of do no harm.
Yes.
Ken Johnson (34:17):
Yes. Just keep it maintained well enough at the
city or township or whoever'snot gonna come after you.
Chris Enroth (34:22):
So you don't have to pay any legal fees. Mhmm.
That's the goal. But stillpushing a lot of that sedges and
violets. I love violets.
It's probably that is one of myfavorite plants. People hate
that plant too, but I love it inthe lawn. I love it in my garden
(34:42):
bed. I love it in, like,landscape beds as a ground
cover. The whole yard can becovered in violets, and I would
be fine with it.
Ken Johnson (34:51):
Yeah. Good good chunk of my yard is is violets.
Chris Enroth (34:54):
Mhmm. You have a favorite a favorite lawn plant?
Ken Johnson (34:58):
Favorite lawn? Yeah. Long as it's green.
Chris Enroth (35:03):
There you go.
Ken Johnson (35:04):
And and not nimble well for whatever reason. I
don't I don't like that one forwhatever reason. I don't know.
Chris Enroth (35:10):
I'm coming around on nimble Will. It's everywhere
in my lawn, and it's just it'staking over
Ken Johnson (35:16):
so much. It's getting to that point where I'm
gonna have to start liking itbecause I don't dislike it
enough to do anything about it.
Chris Enroth (35:23):
Mhmm. There you go. Yes. Well, that was a lot of
great information about NoMoMay.Well, the GoodVrying podcast is
a production of University ofIllinois Extension edited this
week by Ken Johnson.
Ken, thank you for both editingand hanging out with me today
discussing the the virtues of NoMow Me, but also pointing out a
(35:47):
lot of the flaws that areassociated with this idea. And
again, maybe we just need tobump it back to like mid March
to mid April. Mo. But thatdoesn't roll off the tongue so
easily as No Mow May does.
Ken Johnson (36:03):
Yeah. I'd say, yeah, just be be lazy much
longer. You know, cut it beforeyou get in trouble, but it's
okay to let it grow a little bitlonger. And you don't have to
have the perfect life you want,if you don't want to. If you
don't wanna have it.
Chris Enroth (36:17):
That's right. If it's green, it's good as Ken
said.
Ken Johnson (36:21):
Yes. And thank you as always and let's do this
again next week.
Chris Enroth (36:26):
Oh, we shall do this again next week. The
horticultural hijinks continuesthe summer of twenty twenty
five. I say summer because it'sso hot or has been so warm. It's
still spring folks, but my mindis already propelled to tomatoes
and peppers and all the goodiesthat are are just around the
corner. So listeners, thank youfor doing what you do best and
(36:46):
that is listening or if you'rewatching this on YouTube,
watching.
And as always, keep on growing.Well, we'll figure that out this
(37:06):
week. Okay.
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