November 10, 2025 • 47 mins
NFL players seem immortal. They are machines who can conquer anything. But in honoring the memory of Marshawn Kneeland, Jesse shares his own mental health journey, telling us what it’s really like for the players and the behind-the-scenes challenges they battle daily.
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
The following is the production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Cowboys blowing out of the backfield, exploding down the sidelines.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
He's hanging with the boys now, Your hosts.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Nate Newton, Kurt Daniels, Jesse Holly, and Shannon Gross.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Monday, you're looking live at a I guess Christmas is
on its way Ford Center or Tostitos Championship Plaza outside
Ford Center, at the Star of Frisco, Texas, where winter
has finally tried to make its way to.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
This for day too.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, then it'll be eighty next.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Week, at the end of this week.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
This yeah, it is fifty one degrees. It feels like
forty eight. The high is fifty four. The low tonight
is thirty eight.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
He is shinning. This is Kurt one Pump Dames because
clearly to get you a fine in the back keepers
live and local is Chris Beam. I am Salt and
Pepper Poppy. Together we make Hanging with the Boys the
sports talk equivalent of Braille. People when we speaking, stop,
(01:33):
is he.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
All right? Fellas? Weird? Week weekend? Weird, just tragic, tragic
news into last week. If you saw the open of
the show. They have a nice little graphic and tribute
on top of Ford Center the untimely passing of Marshawn
(02:01):
nieland which selfishly, I'm glad we did not have a
show last week, had a little bit of time to
process it, kind of figure out, you know, things Sometimes
things just don't make sense, you know, and this is
one of those. From all accounts and people that knew
(02:23):
him said he was just a really nice young man, happy,
go lucky, not someone that would you know, struggle with something,
which you know, you hear a lot of these stories
and a lot of these stories are kind of the
same where people just don't know what people are dealing with,
you know. And you know, we'll take the first segment
(02:46):
to talk about this and then hopefully move on to
talk about a little bit about football. But you know,
it's just sad. It's sad, and you know, I'm sure
there will be details that come out maybe you can
understand it a little bit more, but right now, it's
just and it's a weird week around here because and Jesse,
you speak to it from the player side. When something
(03:08):
like that happens, you lean on your teammates and you gravitate.
That's that's your support group, right, That's all you've known
your whole life is the team, the team, the team.
And then for it to happen in a week where
a lot of guys were out of town and they
were getting out of town on the bye week to
go do stuff and you're not together, and then I'm
sure they were calling each other and we heard they
(03:28):
were having video calls, and you know, to deal with it,
some people probably needed to talk to a professional counselor,
and if they'd have been in the building, we have
those on staff and they would have brought other people
in just talk a little bit about, you know, from
a player standpoint, how that can affect you, just from
(03:49):
the team aspect and kind of what went through your
head whenever you you heard.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
The news sad, Right, it's obviously something that is just
heart wrenching and you never want to hear stories about this.
And of course this one hits close to the home
because of the way that we cover this football team
we're in this building, but for me it touches home
personally just because of someone who's dealt with mental health
(04:17):
situations before in my own personal life, and the thing
that you always try to help others understand coming from
the athlete's perspective. Is and I said this on my
other show last week, we had we we had to
do a show. Is that every week, people from far
(04:43):
and near, whether they're in the stadium or they're watching
it on TV, there are these mythical figures that you
get to see every single Sunday and on Mondays or Thursdays,
whenever these games are being played. And they are larger
than life, both in reputation, in persona and in size
(05:03):
and physical size. And people think, Yo, Marshawn Kneeland scored
a touchdown Monday night. Okay, top of the world. You
think you think that, You think, man, these guys are
living the dream. I'd give an arm in the leg
to say that I play for any professional team, but
those who are Dallas Cowboy fans. And you're playing, and
(05:26):
you have this privilege and this honor which it is
to play this beautiful game of football. But the thing
sometimes people forget is that when the helmet comes off
and the jersey's thrown into the bin, and you untie
the cleats and you remove the tape from your risk
and your fingers and from your ankles and so on
(05:49):
and so forth, that there's a human under that, there's
a human in that uniform who hurts just like you,
just like me. It's like the folks that watch them
on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
They're not a machine.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
They're not a machine. And I will tell you, and
I'm glad that you made that reference because for a
long time I struggled with that until I had a breakdown.
Is because you've been programmed for all of the years,
over and over and over to believe that you are
(06:24):
a machine. Is that you don't show emotions. You can't cry,
you can't hurt, because that's not becoming of a man,
a young man, and it's not the persona that you
want as a football player. And so you keep these
feelings suppressed. And why a lot of people say, hey,
go talk to a teammate and go talk to so
(06:45):
and so, and go and talk to so and so.
There's just a level of almost vulnerability, some embarrassment, some
I don't want to come off as soft. So you
keep these things inside, these feelings, these thoughts, these things
that are going into your head, and you try to
(07:07):
suppress them for as long as they can, but they
don't go away. They only increase whenever you want to
call them the voices, the demons, the monsters that are
consistently and what ends up happening is there are some
days where there's enough around you to defeat them. Right
(07:32):
there's the day that you have the support from the
teammates and you feel loved and you feel like you're
on top of the world. Right, so it's like that
day you win, But they don't stop. They never stop.
They consistently come, and you just have to hope and
pray and work towards building a community for yourself that
(07:54):
allows you to win the battle every time it decides
to rear its ugly head. And the hope and the
prayer is is that those of us who deal with
those things get to a point that we don't stay
in the dark because at times you feel like I'm
(08:17):
safer here, or I don't want to burden them, or
I don't want to I don't want to show that
level of vulnerability, and so you stay in the dark,
and it grows and it grows, and the sad point
about it is when it catches you, when you don't
have enough to defeat it. That's when it's bad. And
(08:41):
so you know, from a player's perspective, is where is
the space for us to be human? Where is the
space for us to not be these mythical creatures? And
I stop using that term that you said. I am
(09:04):
a machine was a term that I referenced so many
times in my life, and I may have said it
here before where it originally formulated from. I was a
teenage boy and a coach said it to me because
I got hurt in the game, and he said, are
you a man or are you a machine? And I
(09:27):
lived that year in year out, and it became like
this mantra, not just a football badge of honor, but
a way of life, that I am this machine. I
don't hurt, I don't have emotions, I don't any of that.
Until I didn't have enough victory to defeat that. And
(09:53):
so I don't even let people because people would actually
sometimes reference to me, they said, oh, Jesse, you're doing this,
you're working here, you're doing this. Da da da da
da da da, You're a machine. And I'll stop them.
I go, I'm not. I'm human. I suffer the same
things that you. I hurt the same way that you.
I cry, if I get cut, I bleed, if I
break a bone, it's gonna hurt.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Me like to give that that reality to it. But
it's unfortunate that we as athletes, especially football, is that
there is this belief that we are stronger than others.
There's this belief that we are we are greater than
any of the things that can come against us, and
(10:34):
we're not. We're human just like the next man.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Let me ask you. And this is kind of personal,
so if you don't want to answer it, fine, just
tell me. But as someone that's you know, you've you've
you've made it known that you've struggled with things in
the past, and you always hear when something like this happens.
You always hear people say, hey, reach out to people,
tell them you love them, tell them you're there for it,
tell them. And like, I I don't know if I
(11:00):
believe that, I think you should take it a step further.
I think you should. Yeah, do that. It's important. But
I know very few men, if any, that if they're
struggling with something and you just reach out and said, hey,
I want you know, I'm thinking about you today, or hey,
how you doing? You good guys are gonna be like, yeah, bro,
I'm good, Like I think you should and you tell
me how you feel. As someone that's you know, kind
(11:21):
of been through some stuff, I think you should take
it a step further. Yes, that's important, but let them know. Hey,
I may not know you very well or we surface
level friendship, but if you're ever going through some stuff,
just I'm I'll listen here for you know, like, because
no guy is going to be like, yeah, you know what,
we're casual friends. Yeah, I'm yeah, you know what. I'm
(11:43):
struggling with this, but if you know, like, hey, just
letting you know I'm always here if you ever need
to talk to me, take that extra step, right.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, I can tell you as someone who who deals
with this stuff, Like there have been days that I've
gone through my phone and I'm like, man, i need
someone to talk to. But then you go through it
and I'm just using you guys as references, right, But
I go through it and I go, Shannon, do I
want to call Shannon? Will the answer right? Because now
(12:15):
you start battling this thing of if I call you
and you don't answer right now, I'm like, oh, I
don't have Shannon and I go, well, I mean Kurt
dealing with his own situation, right, Can I call Kurt? Right?
And then it's like, do I call my brother? But
now if I call my brother, you know how overbord
(12:37):
is he going to go? You know what I'm saying.
And so these are the games that are playing in
your head about different situations and scenarios. A part of
it is the dark side wanting you to stay in
the dark right, And then you're so you're having this
back and forth battle and the best thing that one
(12:58):
is to identify it, but then also create this circle
of people who know you and go, something's not right,
Something's not even when you're smiling, right, even when you're
you know what I'm saying, And that that circle of
people kind of sometimes know and it could be a
(13:21):
difficult thing because it's I mean, I've come in here
some days and I'm smiling, I'm chimpy Championship and I'm happy,
and I'm and i leave here and I'm just like, boy,
it's a day, you know what I mean. And so
so that's the part about it all is that you
it's these mind games that you play with yourself, and
(13:43):
it's who do I call. When do I call? What
do I say when I call? Right? Because everybody's going
to react to this thing differently. If I call and
I say, Man, today is not one of those days.
Oh I'm thinking this, I'm thinking that. If they're like, oh,
(14:05):
now you're like, I don't want to deal with that.
I don't need to deal with that. I don't I
don't need to deal with that reaction. I don't need
to deal with that, you know what I'm saying. So
it's it's yes, you're right. You want to have that
circle of people that you can reach out to and
let them know and have the professional peoples in it. Again,
it's it's so difficult because everybody deals with life and
(14:29):
things differently. And the best way that I can describe
it is is just trying to build your community, trying
to build that group of people and try to, you know,
try to build your community and then try to just
understand what you're going through as best as you possibly
can and address it with professionals so that you can
(14:52):
have Like I'll give you an example. We make a
joke like people always say about, oh, Jesse, you're doing
eighteen different things. I have to I have to not
because I need the money financially, I have to the
more idle time that I have, the worse it can get.
(15:16):
What does well for me is and this may sound simple, Shannon, Kurt,
Chris and Nate.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
They need me today, they need me today, somebody or something.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
They need me. Yeah, today, they need me. Now do
you no show goes on what they're without me? Right?
But to me, you need me. If that's enough to
defeat whenever I'm battling today, then that's enough. So I
do these different things because staying on a schedule gives
(15:55):
me something to look forward to. Something as simple as
when I work out early in the morning. My trainer
is looking for me to be there at five thirty
in the morning. That may just be the one thing
that says not today or at DLLs Clarence and Jeff
(16:19):
and Ali, I got to be there. And if there's
a person in my life, all of those things. It's
not that I want to have fifty million jobs, but
a schedule and things that I have to look forward
to keeps me and puts me in a place where
my mind doesn't sit idly. Now, I also have to
(16:40):
understand and know which took time of when I need
a break, when I need to have my mind not
go work crazy and burn out, because when you burn out,
I become more vulnerable that stuff than attacks. So there's
a delicate balance of me seeing a therapist every week, right,
(17:01):
letting some of those thoughts out, not keeping them caged
then because before I did, but it's letting them out.
And sometimes there's therapy sessions when I go in and
there's a plan that we work through certain things together,
we unpack certain things and there's a plan. There's some
days where I come in there and I walk in
and he goes, what do you got? And I will
talk for the entire hour, but it's out. It's no
(17:26):
longer living and breathing inside my head to constantly swirl around,
you know what I'm saying. So for me that those
are type of things that work for me. I don't
know what others or how others operate, but I know
staying active, staying busy allows me a space of there's
(17:49):
something important that someone expects me to be at and
that wins the day. Sometimes that wins the day that
that's where I'm like, boy, Holly's helping hands coming up
this year? You got to be there for that. Could
it go on without me?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
But will it I don't know. So it's things that
you try to go and find. And I go there
are a bunch of kids and families that will be
looking forward for me being this year to give them
Christmas gifts. That helps me win a day. And some
days I don't need any of it. I'm just a
good day. I'm just good. And there's some days where
I'm like, I gotta go and find out some things
(18:32):
that because it's not a good day, I'm in the dark, right,
And so that's why I do what I do, because
that is the pattern that when I set down with
my professional that works best for me, and it gives
me an opportunity to win the days that are trying
(18:53):
to defeat me, you know what I'm saying. And so
it's some people like I talk to my friend Jeff Right,
Jeff says, writing it down helps me whatever is in
my head, I gotta go write it down. That helps
me get it out, That helps me do what I
have to do, you know. And those are the safer
ways because you have some people that you know, they
(19:13):
take other options to try to defeat these demons and
it hurts them even more, you know what I'm saying.
So for me, that is from an athlete's perspective, that
keeps me in that space. But sometimes it's at Marshault's
twenty four years old. At twenty four, I didn't have that.
At twenty four, I thought I'm a machine. Yeah, I'm
(19:36):
a machine, That's what I thought. And these guys are
dealing with a lot of different things that we don't
even know.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Can you imagine if social media was the thing when
you were coming.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
You know what I mean, like, like it is, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Well, I think it's great that you one you identified,
like what keeps you your mind off of it, and
that's being busy and being a part of something that
you feel like, you know, you need to be there,
you need to show up. A lot of people struggle
with finding that thing. But I think it's great that
you've Oh this takes my mind off of it. So
(20:15):
I'm going to do more of this. Yeah, you know,
finding a hobby or something that makes you you know,
takes your mind off all that stuff. And then oh, okay,
I'm going to do more of that, and on bad days,
I'm gonna even do more of that, you know. I
think that's great that you were. And that's the thing, man,
It's like it just puts into perspective like the machine
(20:38):
that sports is, right, the professional it's a game, right
that That's yeah, that was Marshaw Kneeland Dallas. Cowboy is
also a kid, somebody's kid, you know, somebody's boyfriend, somebody's
best friend. I think that's that's the hard part is
like it, you know, and this happens every day across
the world to people you don't hear about people that
(21:01):
struggle with stuff that you know, that just can't overcome it, right,
But I think it's it doesn't happen very often in
professional sports, you know, and it doesn't really happen. You know,
it's happened.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
There have been two tragedies since I've been associated with
the team, Jerry Brown Brow and then you know, and
then this, and it's like it just it's a very weird, strange.
It's just there's no words and it's a weird feeling
that you just you can't explain it.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
You text me a couple of weeks ago, a couple
of weeks ago, and you just was like hey man,
you're good. He was like, you know, you weren't yourself today, remember, right,
And I said thank you. I said honestly, and I
told you I said honestly, and I'm being truthful with you.
I was just tired that day. I was just tired.
(21:54):
But I said thank you for noticing and having the
courage to reach out to me, because some would have
been like, huh okay, but you took it upon yourself
to go something would right now you found out that. Literally,
I was literally just tired. But it was enough that
I'm like, okay. If it had happened, if something was
(22:18):
bothering me, that could have been a saving grace. That
could have been the moment from me doing something far
greater and more devastating. Because the phone rang and there
was somebody goes he cares in that moment, it could
have been enough. And so that's my if you ever
feel that about one of your friends or family or
(22:40):
coworkers who whatever it is, don't go. I'll do it later.
I'll see it.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
So that could be, like I said earlier, taking the
extra extra yes step, but that first step could be
enough for somebody to be like, hey, yeah, something's wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Something's wrong, and then it could have been. Now the
next step is hey, let's hey, let's call me. But hey,
I'm on the way. You know what I'm saying, Because
sometimes it's just knowing the fact that, Wow, someone actually
cares about Jesse, not Salt and Pepper Poppy, not mister
fourth and long, not the not the persona you cared
(23:18):
in that moment about Jesse. And that sometimes is what's
missed because I can tell you from playing in this
game and some of the things that Marshawn probably dealt
with is there's a lot of people that loved him
for what he brought. Even in his close circle. There's
a lot of people who were around him and for
(23:40):
him because of the status that he held as an
NFL player, as an NFL you know, cowboy, all of that,
and you don't get to really know who loves me.
And now I have to cipher who's here because of
(24:03):
what I do, and who's here because of me, And
that could be a very very clouded picture for a
young person, a very clouded picture for a young person
who's dealing with these mental issues or instabilities, and so
(24:23):
that that plays a part in your mind. I know
that we have to break, but yeah, I want to let'
let me finish this, so we break, so we can
kind of get back to some sort of normalcy. I
remember dealing when I was in New England and one
day Aaron Hernandez came into. We were doing we haven't
a Bible study yet in New England and he came
(24:45):
in one day and even Aaron Rodgers and instead of
screaping on Aaron Rodger, aeron Hernandez and we all know
how that tragically ended. But he said something in that
day that said why he spent all his time at
the facility, And I can tell you he loved football,
(25:05):
and he said, this is the only place where I
know people don't want anything from me. So I spend
all my time here because nobody's gonna ask me for
anything in here. No one's gonna try to trick me
into giving them anything. There's no fake love in here.
(25:25):
This is this is where I feel the safest. Was
in the locker room with others that you you know,
you hang with, and you're like, He's like, man, I
know my mom and them, they just they just like
to check. They just like what I bring, Like that's
what he's talking about like his family members like I
(25:47):
just they just like what Aaron Hernandez's bring, but they
don't really, you know. And he was telling us like
times that people were saying this about him, his family
was saying not about him. He was like, you know,
I know if my girl she with me because of whatever,
And that's just the way he felt. Whether that was
true or false on their part, it was his reality,
you know what I'm saying. It was his reality of
(26:07):
how the picture looked and how he took it. And
we know that there were other things that were involved
in that and how it all, like I said, how
it all ended. But I remember that very vividly, him
coming in there, crying, having a conversation about this is
why I'm always here. This is why I'm the first
guy in here, the last guy I leave. I sleep
in here, I'm in here all the time. This is
(26:29):
where I feel the safest. This is where I feel
like people actually don't want something from you.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And unless you've been around celebrities, people with personas, right,
pro athletes, you know, hell, even in college, like that's
your safe zone because like you said, those are people
that are like minded that they don't want anything from
there there for the same reason, you know, And when
(26:57):
you get outside of that, and if you've been around
it and you've lived it, you see the hangers on
the followers. Yeah, is this really my How did I
get to be friends with this person? Was it because
I have a uniform on and a star on my helmet?
And how? And then you know that could be a
bad spiral. And you know, I can see where the
(27:19):
only place you truly know anybody is your friend because
of who you are, is in the locker room, because
you're all. Everybody outside of that wants something from every
one of those guys, whether it's money, whether it's cloud chasing,
whether it's just to be a part of Oh yeah,
I know a Dallas cowboy player or whatever like that.
Over there, no one cares.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
And then imagine someone who may have a level of insecurity,
what they will do to fit into a certain group.
I tell people all the time, there are so many
the guys that don these jerseys in any sport, and
everyone thinks it's so mighty and tough and just secure
in their spot. They aren't. There's so many insecurities that
(28:02):
are walking around and they do the touchdown dances and
they do all that kind of stuff and you're thinking,
oh my god, what a freaking athlete? A what a
what a what a god? What a figure? And again
he takes that uniform off, and the insecurities are right
there with.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
And maybe even more so because at least I know,
like I, nothing's real if you're a pro athlete, what's real?
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Right?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Like? What's who is real? Who's here because of me?
Or who? Even though you're my best friend? How did
I get to know you? I knew you through a
friend And the only reason why I know that friend
is because I play. So do you really like me?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Like?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
That's God? It's a crazy world.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah man, yeah man. But if you need help, please
reach out to someone. Talk to someone, get a professional,
and just find out what are your triggers? Find out
what are things that take you that way. Sometimes you
have to eliminate some of the people from your life
because those are the triggers. And then get a plan.
Get a plan, Get a plan and work your plan.
Work your plan, man, stay on task. And but you know,
(29:09):
sad news.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Very sad. All right, let's take a first break. When
we come back, Kurt, you want to talk to the
second second. You know, well, we get Curt and Ba
hanging with the boys. Will we ride back?
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Cowboys take on the Kansas City Chiefs, and around Dallas
on November twenty sixth and November twenty eighth. Visit Crownrooyal
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(30:43):
stopping this NFL season. That's Crownrooyal dot com. Please drink responsibly.
Speaker 7 (30:50):
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Speaker 7 (31:17):
See Wingstop dot com slash offers for full details.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Back to Hanging with the Bulls.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Welcome back to the second segment. I Hang with the
Boys brought you each and every show by a blockchain
dot com. Oh Cheane, thank you blockchain.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
We gotta be quick. We gotta do another commercial. We
gotta go like five minutes here and then come back
for five.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah, gotta take care of everybody. Yeah, all right. Halfway
through the NFL season. Where where Kurt start with you?
Just to get you involved here?
Speaker 4 (31:53):
I don't want to be involved.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Come on, Kurt, where's your expectation as compared to reality
coming into this season? What what did you expect? And
how do you feel about where you are?
Speaker 4 (32:08):
I think that I probably the Homer in me probably
had higher expectations and was realistic. Twenty twenty vision. You're
looking back at a new head coach, a new differensive coordinator,
roster that wasn't maybe as talent as we hoped.
Speaker 6 (32:23):
And so.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
Maybe this is where we're supposed to be. You know,
it's just not not the championship team I think we
had hoped going in when we all were full of hope.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
We need to pull the maybe we do this tomorrow.
We pulled our our predictions and see where we were.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
Yeah, I want to say I was like six and
two something like that.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I mean, it was ridiculous, a little, a little high.
I think, I think I feel pretty good about the
direction of where this thing is headed. Like I think
the hell you know, I mean for the first at
the beginning of the season, no, but what you know,
(33:06):
the the the code that the head coach. I think
he's called some really good games. I think he's called
some very questionable games. Growing pains as a head coach,
first time I did.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
In the last two games, he hasn't been really good.
But I also believe the last two games he's had
to spend a little bit more time on the defensive size,
so maybe he's not giving off. So that was my like,
I'm like, get back, get back, get back to doing,
get back over here full time, my boy.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Give him a little grace. I think, for the first
time as an organization, since I can, since I've been here,
you have ownership, not directly admitting we didn't evaluate our
players correctly, but going and doing something about it. Because
usually it's hey, we can fix this. We'll go grab
(33:52):
this gal off the street, We'll get this guy off
the couch. We'll get this guy. You went and made
some moves going Okay, here's our problem right up the middle.
This is our problem. Let's go fix it. So I
applaud them for doing that too little, too late this year. Yes, absolutely,
but for the first time, it feels like a change
in direction, which I don't think I've felt ever before,
(34:14):
because you know, eight and eight, eight and eight, eight
and eight, Oh, we're good. We just had this guy
was hurt and this happened, and this was I feel
like they maybe backed into this, but there's a fundamental
type change that they're hopefully it's going to have to
get through this this season, and then depending on what
they do with the draft, we'll see if they really
have that fundamental, you know, change in what they're doing.
(34:38):
I wish I thought the offensive line was going to
be a lot better than what it is. I think
that's been a little bit of a disappointment.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
I don't worry about that.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
I don't think you could get much better play out
of the quarterback. He's had a couple off games, but
that is directly tied of the offensive line. The receivers
are great, the run game is great, the defense just
I mean, you can't really say anything about the defense.
It's been a disaster. Yeah, but I think this is
about where I thought they would be, And if they
had any semblance of the defense, I think this would
(35:08):
be a completely different looking season and you would be
a lot way better than you are now. But I'm
okay defense, kick that to the side. I'm okay with.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
What everybody else does.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yeah, good point. But what about you, Jesse? Where are
they at right now kind of where you thought they would.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Be as a resident hater on this show.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yes, nothing less.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I think when we go back and look at the
grand total, I think I had them winning maybe one
more game than what Vegas said they were going to win.
I did not think coming into the year that they
were Super Bowl contenders. I did not think they were
going to be this bad, right, Like they're historically bad
on the defense, And of course now you have the
(35:56):
offense which feels like it's doing some overcompings for it
that's now messing there flowing rhythm up. But as this
thing began to unfold, because like the way I looked
at it was, I saw all the guys that had left,
whether that was going to other teams being released, so
(36:18):
on and so forth, and I was like, man, they're
not replacing these guys, you know. I'm like a lot
of talent is going out the door. Yeah, Like you
start dating all the way back. Like you talk about
those core pieces you think you couldn't lose Jlu right
now right Orren's armstrong, you think you use take Lawrence
right about now? See, And while I get while they're here,
(36:43):
you're looking for them to be way up here all
the time. But this is how good teams are formed,
is that if you can keep a guy like Tank
and then have a guy like Micah and Jordan Lewis,
and then you know, the one thing that we've if
the Joneses were as proactive in the middle as they
(37:06):
were this year, think about if they like going to acquire,
don't don't go acquire a guy in the middle that's
on his way out right. This is what we talk about,
spending the money to get the assets that are needed.
Let's let's let's I don't know, Chris, if you're ready,
let's do another break so that we can come back
(37:27):
to our last commercial and finish out with this.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
All right, take our last break right back on Hanging
with the Boys.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
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on November twenty sixth and November twenty eighth. Visit Crownrooyal
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dot com to see where else the Royal Rig is
stopping this NFL season. That's Crownrooyal dot com. Please drink responsibly.
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Speaker 7 (39:02):
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full details.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Back day Hanging with Them Bull Welcome back to the
final segment of Hanging with the Boys, brought to you
each and every show by seven to eleven, And just
like seven eleven, we are always open for business. Twenty
four to seven. All right, you were making a point
about the what's your point talking about the season, and
(40:06):
if it was where you.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Yeah, yeah, And so replacing guys like sending guys away,
not you know, replacing guys and then keeping those core
pieces your Jordan Lewis is your tanks. You like, of course,
you know, you would like to have one of the
best pass prushers, you know, an A plus elite player
on your team, but like, you just don't replace those guys.
And that's the thing. Sometimes you just think, oh, what
(40:28):
was put the next guy in there? And the next
guy may not have that dog that you need. You
can use a dog right now. You can use a
Jordan Lewis dog. You can lose. You can use a
tank Lawrence right now.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Right.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
And so the thing that you looked at from the
Joneses perspective, in the front office perspective was, you know,
really don't go get bottom of the barrel like Quinn Williams.
Imagine having you didn't need to have tank, But imagine
if you still had Jay Lou and you had Quinn
(40:58):
and you had Micah. You have attitude, you have somebody
who's legit in the middle and then you have this
ferocious pass rusher. Now you can start adding a Logan
Wilson right now, that's when you that's when when you
have the right amount of players in there. Now I
(41:19):
can start piecing other things together. But you can't build
a defense or an offense with a bunch of pieces.
There needs to be some standouts.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
It seems like there's pieces a lot of them. Were
they're really counting on guys coming back from injury, on
young guys stepping up.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Yeah, that's a lot of hope, right, Like, that's a
lot of hope. And and and as the great Marvin
Lewis told me, like, potential gets you fired. Like so
you can tell me about the potential all day long
that that doesn't If that potential doesn't work out, I
get fired. I like to have sure things, you know
what I mean. And you don't win in this league
(41:58):
without talented players. I'm sorry, you just don't. Like you
go around and look around the league, like, look who's winning,
you know what I mean. Kansas City they got a
damn they got three Hall of famers on their team,
you know what I mean, The Hall of Fame coach
and a probably Hall of Fame defensive coordinator. You just
don't you need talented players. The Philadelphia Eagles, they won
the Super Bowl last year, they got a couple of
(42:20):
guys that will probably I mean at that time they
had Kelsey and they had sae Quon's probably going to
go to Hall of Fame, and you know, they have
high level players all across the board. You just don't
win in this league without it. You can contend you
could be in games, but to truly have to win
it because the skill level is just far too great.
(42:43):
And then the good teams also are accompanied with these
excellent coaches. So when you have to go up and
you have to face the Detroits, and you got to
face the Niners, and you got to face the Green Bays,
and you got to face the Rams, you've run into
an issue because one you don't have enough Jimmy's and
Joe's and then two you don't have enough x's and o's.
(43:04):
So you you, you, you shot the hell all the
way around, all the way around the park, you know
what I mean. So I mean, coming into this year,
I didn't think and this is before micaeh was even
traded away. I was like, Okay, they'll compete. But I'm like, yeah,
(43:24):
I'm like, they're not. I didn't see front Runner. I
didn't see you know, winning the division. I definitely didn't
see super Bowl written on this team. And I mean,
and it showed you just like to trust and believe
that it's always going to be. Like even now, like
people are hoping and praying that we had Savone Rebel's
dad was on my other show. He was in the chat.
(43:47):
He's in the chat like, yeah, my son's getting to
pick on Tuesday, Monday night. I'm like, whoa dad, Like,
you know, I love it. I love it, Pops, I
love it. Absolutely love the energy that you're giving your son.
But now if he doesn't, don't get mad at me
when I called him out for it, because you set
him up for this, you know what I'm saying. And
then a lot of people are like, oh, we get
over shown back, And I'm just like, man, I had
(44:08):
to play the football in a long time. I want
him to succeed, but we but to put that now
you're putting so much pressure on them. Right, So now
think about how thisbi commisastion. It goes back to the
mental health of this whole thing. We already know that
the Marvin Overshowing is a guy who here's everything. He
(44:30):
hears it, so does he accept the pressure of of it.
What happens when it if it doesn't go right? Now,
we can say what happens if it goes right? Great?
What if it doesn't?
Speaker 2 (44:41):
That's what Nat always talks about, right, Give these guys
a chance.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Like, yeah, like what if of them?
Speaker 6 (44:47):
What if?
Speaker 3 (44:47):
What if in the first game he plays twist an ankle?
You know, I'm not asking, I'm not wishing that. I'm
just saying, there is a lot of you there's been
a lot of pressure that's been put on the shoulders
of these guys coming back, you know what I'm saying,
to save this season. So I don't know, man, it's
it's it's gonna be interesting. And the Cowboys right now
(45:08):
they have to kind of go like seven and one
in the last eight games to a chance to have
a chance like that, you know, and you you can't confidently,
even with the pickups that we had with Logan and Quinny,
you can't confidently just go into the game now said
we're gonna beat the Raiders. How many times we said
that this year? And all of a sudden now. Yeah,
(45:29):
like teams have been goot Juice leading up to US
All Stars playing us back to Gooc's juice after us, right, Like,
so I can't confidently say, oh, there's a no brainer.
There's a no brainer that you know, as bad as
(45:51):
Gino's meant to play this year, we're gonna smoke them, Okay,
like we said that any times before, and we're like,
you know, there's Russell Wilson nuts out there. There's there's
a Kobe Brssett that's out there. There's a little Tink
Tink and Carol Lonta that's out there, like there's a
lot of you, Like I just you just can't. You
can't confidently just say oh, we're gonna win. And then
(46:13):
you definitely can't completely say after Vegas, Troit, Kansas City,
you know, uh, Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
So yeah, all right, fellas, good stuff. Jess, thanks for
sharing man, really good stuff. Kurt. Good seeing to Nate.
We will see you tomorrow. Chris, thanks for keeping us
on the air. Josh, thanks for keeping him company. We'll
be back tomorrow, same time, same place. Boy, Josh handing
back here. Come on, okay, never mind, hang with the boys.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
This has been a production of dallascowboys dot Com and
the Dallas Cowboys Football Club
The following is the production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Cowboys blowing out of the backfield, exploding down the sidelines.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
He's hanging with the boys now, Your hosts.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Nate Newton, Kurt Daniels, Jesse Holly, and Shannon Gross.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Monday, you're looking live at a I guess Christmas is
on its way Ford Center or Tostitos Championship Plaza outside
Ford Center, at the Star of Frisco, Texas, where winter
has finally tried to make its way to.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
This for day too.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, then it'll be eighty next.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Week, at the end of this week.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
This yeah, it is fifty one degrees. It feels like
forty eight. The high is fifty four. The low tonight
is thirty eight.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
He is shinning. This is Kurt one Pump Dames because
clearly to get you a fine in the back keepers
live and local is Chris Beam. I am Salt and
Pepper Poppy. Together we make Hanging with the Boys the
sports talk equivalent of Braille. People when we speaking, stop,
(01:33):
is he.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
All right? Fellas? Weird? Week weekend? Weird, just tragic, tragic
news into last week. If you saw the open of
the show. They have a nice little graphic and tribute
on top of Ford Center the untimely passing of Marshawn
(02:01):
nieland which selfishly, I'm glad we did not have a
show last week, had a little bit of time to
process it, kind of figure out, you know, things Sometimes
things just don't make sense, you know, and this is
one of those. From all accounts and people that knew
(02:23):
him said he was just a really nice young man, happy,
go lucky, not someone that would you know, struggle with something,
which you know, you hear a lot of these stories
and a lot of these stories are kind of the
same where people just don't know what people are dealing with,
you know. And you know, we'll take the first segment
(02:46):
to talk about this and then hopefully move on to
talk about a little bit about football. But you know,
it's just sad. It's sad, and you know, I'm sure
there will be details that come out maybe you can
understand it a little bit more, but right now, it's
just and it's a weird week around here because and Jesse,
you speak to it from the player side. When something
(03:08):
like that happens, you lean on your teammates and you gravitate.
That's that's your support group, right, That's all you've known
your whole life is the team, the team, the team.
And then for it to happen in a week where
a lot of guys were out of town and they
were getting out of town on the bye week to
go do stuff and you're not together, and then I'm
sure they were calling each other and we heard they
(03:28):
were having video calls, and you know, to deal with it,
some people probably needed to talk to a professional counselor,
and if they'd have been in the building, we have
those on staff and they would have brought other people
in just talk a little bit about, you know, from
a player standpoint, how that can affect you, just from
(03:49):
the team aspect and kind of what went through your
head whenever you you heard.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
The news sad, Right, it's obviously something that is just
heart wrenching and you never want to hear stories about this.
And of course this one hits close to the home
because of the way that we cover this football team
we're in this building, but for me it touches home
personally just because of someone who's dealt with mental health
(04:17):
situations before in my own personal life, and the thing
that you always try to help others understand coming from
the athlete's perspective. Is and I said this on my
other show last week, we had we we had to
do a show. Is that every week, people from far
(04:43):
and near, whether they're in the stadium or they're watching
it on TV, there are these mythical figures that you
get to see every single Sunday and on Mondays or Thursdays,
whenever these games are being played. And they are larger
than life, both in reputation, in persona and in size
(05:03):
and physical size. And people think, Yo, Marshawn Kneeland scored
a touchdown Monday night. Okay, top of the world. You
think you think that, You think, man, these guys are
living the dream. I'd give an arm in the leg
to say that I play for any professional team, but
those who are Dallas Cowboy fans. And you're playing, and
(05:26):
you have this privilege and this honor which it is
to play this beautiful game of football. But the thing
sometimes people forget is that when the helmet comes off
and the jersey's thrown into the bin, and you untie
the cleats and you remove the tape from your risk
and your fingers and from your ankles and so on
(05:49):
and so forth, that there's a human under that, there's
a human in that uniform who hurts just like you,
just like me. It's like the folks that watch them
on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
They're not a machine.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
They're not a machine. And I will tell you, and
I'm glad that you made that reference because for a
long time I struggled with that until I had a breakdown.
Is because you've been programmed for all of the years,
over and over and over to believe that you are
(06:24):
a machine. Is that you don't show emotions. You can't cry,
you can't hurt, because that's not becoming of a man,
a young man, and it's not the persona that you
want as a football player. And so you keep these
feelings suppressed. And why a lot of people say, hey,
go talk to a teammate and go talk to so
(06:45):
and so, and go and talk to so and so.
There's just a level of almost vulnerability, some embarrassment, some
I don't want to come off as soft. So you
keep these things inside, these feelings, these thoughts, these things
that are going into your head, and you try to
(07:07):
suppress them for as long as they can, but they
don't go away. They only increase whenever you want to
call them the voices, the demons, the monsters that are
consistently and what ends up happening is there are some
days where there's enough around you to defeat them. Right
(07:32):
there's the day that you have the support from the
teammates and you feel loved and you feel like you're
on top of the world. Right, so it's like that
day you win, But they don't stop. They never stop.
They consistently come, and you just have to hope and
pray and work towards building a community for yourself that
(07:54):
allows you to win the battle every time it decides
to rear its ugly head. And the hope and the
prayer is is that those of us who deal with
those things get to a point that we don't stay
in the dark because at times you feel like I'm
(08:17):
safer here, or I don't want to burden them, or
I don't want to I don't want to show that
level of vulnerability, and so you stay in the dark,
and it grows and it grows, and the sad point
about it is when it catches you, when you don't
have enough to defeat it. That's when it's bad. And
(08:41):
so you know, from a player's perspective, is where is
the space for us to be human? Where is the
space for us to not be these mythical creatures? And
I stop using that term that you said. I am
(09:04):
a machine was a term that I referenced so many
times in my life, and I may have said it
here before where it originally formulated from. I was a
teenage boy and a coach said it to me because
I got hurt in the game, and he said, are
you a man or are you a machine? And I
(09:27):
lived that year in year out, and it became like
this mantra, not just a football badge of honor, but
a way of life, that I am this machine. I
don't hurt, I don't have emotions, I don't any of that.
Until I didn't have enough victory to defeat that. And
(09:53):
so I don't even let people because people would actually
sometimes reference to me, they said, oh, Jesse, you're doing this,
you're working here, you're doing this. Da da da da
da da da, You're a machine. And I'll stop them.
I go, I'm not. I'm human. I suffer the same
things that you. I hurt the same way that you.
I cry, if I get cut, I bleed, if I
break a bone, it's gonna hurt.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Me like to give that that reality to it. But
it's unfortunate that we as athletes, especially football, is that
there is this belief that we are stronger than others.
There's this belief that we are we are greater than
any of the things that can come against us, and
(10:34):
we're not. We're human just like the next man.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Let me ask you. And this is kind of personal,
so if you don't want to answer it, fine, just
tell me. But as someone that's you know, you've you've
you've made it known that you've struggled with things in
the past, and you always hear when something like this happens.
You always hear people say, hey, reach out to people,
tell them you love them, tell them you're there for it,
tell them. And like, I I don't know if I
(11:00):
believe that, I think you should take it a step further.
I think you should. Yeah, do that. It's important. But
I know very few men, if any, that if they're
struggling with something and you just reach out and said, hey,
I want you know, I'm thinking about you today, or hey,
how you doing? You good guys are gonna be like, yeah, bro,
I'm good, Like I think you should and you tell
me how you feel. As someone that's you know, kind
(11:21):
of been through some stuff, I think you should take
it a step further. Yes, that's important, but let them know. Hey,
I may not know you very well or we surface
level friendship, but if you're ever going through some stuff,
just I'm I'll listen here for you know, like, because
no guy is going to be like, yeah, you know what,
we're casual friends. Yeah, I'm yeah, you know what. I'm
(11:43):
struggling with this, but if you know, like, hey, just
letting you know I'm always here if you ever need
to talk to me, take that extra step, right.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, I can tell you as someone who who deals
with this stuff, Like there have been days that I've
gone through my phone and I'm like, man, i need
someone to talk to. But then you go through it
and I'm just using you guys as references, right, But
I go through it and I go, Shannon, do I
want to call Shannon? Will the answer right? Because now
(12:15):
you start battling this thing of if I call you
and you don't answer right now, I'm like, oh, I
don't have Shannon and I go, well, I mean Kurt
dealing with his own situation, right, Can I call Kurt? Right?
And then it's like, do I call my brother? But
now if I call my brother, you know how overbord
(12:37):
is he going to go? You know what I'm saying.
And so these are the games that are playing in
your head about different situations and scenarios. A part of
it is the dark side wanting you to stay in
the dark right, And then you're so you're having this
back and forth battle and the best thing that one
(12:58):
is to identify it, but then also create this circle
of people who know you and go, something's not right,
Something's not even when you're smiling, right, even when you're
you know what I'm saying, And that that circle of
people kind of sometimes know and it could be a
(13:21):
difficult thing because it's I mean, I've come in here
some days and I'm smiling, I'm chimpy Championship and I'm happy,
and I'm and i leave here and I'm just like, boy,
it's a day, you know what I mean. And so
so that's the part about it all is that you
it's these mind games that you play with yourself, and
(13:43):
it's who do I call. When do I call? What
do I say when I call? Right? Because everybody's going
to react to this thing differently. If I call and
I say, Man, today is not one of those days.
Oh I'm thinking this, I'm thinking that. If they're like, oh,
(14:05):
now you're like, I don't want to deal with that.
I don't need to deal with that. I don't I
don't need to deal with that reaction. I don't need
to deal with that, you know what I'm saying. So
it's it's yes, you're right. You want to have that
circle of people that you can reach out to and
let them know and have the professional peoples in it. Again,
it's it's so difficult because everybody deals with life and
(14:29):
things differently. And the best way that I can describe
it is is just trying to build your community, trying
to build that group of people and try to, you know,
try to build your community and then try to just
understand what you're going through as best as you possibly
can and address it with professionals so that you can
(14:52):
have Like I'll give you an example. We make a
joke like people always say about, oh, Jesse, you're doing
eighteen different things. I have to I have to not
because I need the money financially, I have to the
more idle time that I have, the worse it can get.
(15:16):
What does well for me is and this may sound simple, Shannon, Kurt,
Chris and Nate.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
They need me today, they need me today, somebody or something.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
They need me. Yeah, today, they need me. Now do
you no show goes on what they're without me? Right?
But to me, you need me. If that's enough to
defeat whenever I'm battling today, then that's enough. So I
do these different things because staying on a schedule gives
(15:55):
me something to look forward to. Something as simple as
when I work out early in the morning. My trainer
is looking for me to be there at five thirty
in the morning. That may just be the one thing
that says not today or at DLLs Clarence and Jeff
(16:19):
and Ali, I got to be there. And if there's
a person in my life, all of those things. It's
not that I want to have fifty million jobs, but
a schedule and things that I have to look forward
to keeps me and puts me in a place where
my mind doesn't sit idly. Now, I also have to
(16:40):
understand and know which took time of when I need
a break, when I need to have my mind not
go work crazy and burn out, because when you burn out,
I become more vulnerable that stuff than attacks. So there's
a delicate balance of me seeing a therapist every week, right,
(17:01):
letting some of those thoughts out, not keeping them caged
then because before I did, but it's letting them out.
And sometimes there's therapy sessions when I go in and
there's a plan that we work through certain things together,
we unpack certain things and there's a plan. There's some
days where I come in there and I walk in
and he goes, what do you got? And I will
talk for the entire hour, but it's out. It's no
(17:26):
longer living and breathing inside my head to constantly swirl around,
you know what I'm saying. So for me that those
are type of things that work for me. I don't
know what others or how others operate, but I know
staying active, staying busy allows me a space of there's
(17:49):
something important that someone expects me to be at and
that wins the day. Sometimes that wins the day that
that's where I'm like, boy, Holly's helping hands coming up
this year? You got to be there for that. Could
it go on without me?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
But will it I don't know. So it's things that
you try to go and find. And I go there
are a bunch of kids and families that will be
looking forward for me being this year to give them
Christmas gifts. That helps me win a day. And some
days I don't need any of it. I'm just a
good day. I'm just good. And there's some days where
I'm like, I gotta go and find out some things
(18:32):
that because it's not a good day, I'm in the dark, right,
And so that's why I do what I do, because
that is the pattern that when I set down with
my professional that works best for me, and it gives
me an opportunity to win the days that are trying
(18:53):
to defeat me, you know what I'm saying. And so
it's some people like I talk to my friend Jeff Right,
Jeff says, writing it down helps me whatever is in
my head, I gotta go write it down. That helps
me get it out, That helps me do what I
have to do, you know. And those are the safer
ways because you have some people that you know, they
(19:13):
take other options to try to defeat these demons and
it hurts them even more, you know what I'm saying.
So for me, that is from an athlete's perspective, that
keeps me in that space. But sometimes it's at Marshault's
twenty four years old. At twenty four, I didn't have that.
At twenty four, I thought I'm a machine. Yeah, I'm
(19:36):
a machine, That's what I thought. And these guys are
dealing with a lot of different things that we don't
even know.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Can you imagine if social media was the thing when
you were coming.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
You know what I mean, like, like it is, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Well, I think it's great that you one you identified,
like what keeps you your mind off of it, and
that's being busy and being a part of something that
you feel like, you know, you need to be there,
you need to show up. A lot of people struggle
with finding that thing. But I think it's great that
you've Oh this takes my mind off of it. So
(20:15):
I'm going to do more of this. Yeah, you know,
finding a hobby or something that makes you you know,
takes your mind off all that stuff. And then oh, okay,
I'm going to do more of that, and on bad days,
I'm gonna even do more of that, you know. I
think that's great that you were. And that's the thing, man,
It's like it just puts into perspective like the machine
(20:38):
that sports is, right, the professional it's a game, right
that That's yeah, that was Marshaw Kneeland Dallas. Cowboy is
also a kid, somebody's kid, you know, somebody's boyfriend, somebody's
best friend. I think that's that's the hard part is
like it, you know, and this happens every day across
the world to people you don't hear about people that
(21:01):
struggle with stuff that you know, that just can't overcome it, right,
But I think it's it doesn't happen very often in
professional sports, you know, and it doesn't really happen. You know,
it's happened.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
There have been two tragedies since I've been associated with
the team, Jerry Brown Brow and then you know, and
then this, and it's like it just it's a very weird, strange.
It's just there's no words and it's a weird feeling
that you just you can't explain it.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
You text me a couple of weeks ago, a couple
of weeks ago, and you just was like hey man,
you're good. He was like, you know, you weren't yourself today, remember, right,
And I said thank you. I said honestly, and I
told you I said honestly, and I'm being truthful with you.
I was just tired that day. I was just tired.
(21:54):
But I said thank you for noticing and having the
courage to reach out to me, because some would have
been like, huh okay, but you took it upon yourself
to go something would right now you found out that. Literally,
I was literally just tired. But it was enough that
I'm like, okay. If it had happened, if something was
(22:18):
bothering me, that could have been a saving grace. That
could have been the moment from me doing something far
greater and more devastating. Because the phone rang and there
was somebody goes he cares in that moment, it could
have been enough. And so that's my if you ever
feel that about one of your friends or family or
(22:40):
coworkers who whatever it is, don't go. I'll do it later.
I'll see it.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
So that could be, like I said earlier, taking the
extra extra yes step, but that first step could be
enough for somebody to be like, hey, yeah, something's wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Something's wrong, and then it could have been. Now the
next step is hey, let's hey, let's call me. But hey,
I'm on the way. You know what I'm saying, Because
sometimes it's just knowing the fact that, Wow, someone actually
cares about Jesse, not Salt and Pepper Poppy, not mister
fourth and long, not the not the persona you cared
(23:18):
in that moment about Jesse. And that sometimes is what's
missed because I can tell you from playing in this
game and some of the things that Marshawn probably dealt
with is there's a lot of people that loved him
for what he brought. Even in his close circle. There's
a lot of people who were around him and for
(23:40):
him because of the status that he held as an
NFL player, as an NFL you know, cowboy, all of that,
and you don't get to really know who loves me.
And now I have to cipher who's here because of
(24:03):
what I do, and who's here because of me, And
that could be a very very clouded picture for a
young person, a very clouded picture for a young person
who's dealing with these mental issues or instabilities, and so
(24:23):
that that plays a part in your mind. I know
that we have to break, but yeah, I want to let'
let me finish this, so we break, so we can
kind of get back to some sort of normalcy. I
remember dealing when I was in New England and one
day Aaron Hernandez came into. We were doing we haven't
a Bible study yet in New England and he came
(24:45):
in one day and even Aaron Rodgers and instead of
screaping on Aaron Rodger, aeron Hernandez and we all know
how that tragically ended. But he said something in that
day that said why he spent all his time at
the facility, And I can tell you he loved football,
(25:05):
and he said, this is the only place where I
know people don't want anything from me. So I spend
all my time here because nobody's gonna ask me for
anything in here. No one's gonna try to trick me
into giving them anything. There's no fake love in here.
(25:25):
This is this is where I feel the safest. Was
in the locker room with others that you you know,
you hang with, and you're like, He's like, man, I
know my mom and them, they just they just like
to check. They just like what I bring, Like that's
what he's talking about like his family members like I
(25:47):
just they just like what Aaron Hernandez's bring, but they
don't really, you know. And he was telling us like
times that people were saying this about him, his family
was saying not about him. He was like, you know,
I know if my girl she with me because of whatever,
And that's just the way he felt. Whether that was
true or false on their part, it was his reality,
you know what I'm saying. It was his reality of
(26:07):
how the picture looked and how he took it. And
we know that there were other things that were involved
in that and how it all, like I said, how
it all ended. But I remember that very vividly, him
coming in there, crying, having a conversation about this is
why I'm always here. This is why I'm the first
guy in here, the last guy I leave. I sleep
in here, I'm in here all the time. This is
(26:29):
where I feel the safest. This is where I feel
like people actually don't want something from you.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And unless you've been around celebrities, people with personas, right,
pro athletes, you know, hell, even in college, like that's
your safe zone because like you said, those are people
that are like minded that they don't want anything from
there there for the same reason, you know, And when
(26:57):
you get outside of that, and if you've been around
it and you've lived it, you see the hangers on
the followers. Yeah, is this really my How did I
get to be friends with this person? Was it because
I have a uniform on and a star on my helmet?
And how? And then you know that could be a
bad spiral. And you know, I can see where the
(27:19):
only place you truly know anybody is your friend because
of who you are, is in the locker room, because
you're all. Everybody outside of that wants something from every
one of those guys, whether it's money, whether it's cloud chasing,
whether it's just to be a part of Oh yeah,
I know a Dallas cowboy player or whatever like that.
Over there, no one cares.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
And then imagine someone who may have a level of insecurity,
what they will do to fit into a certain group.
I tell people all the time, there are so many
the guys that don these jerseys in any sport, and
everyone thinks it's so mighty and tough and just secure
in their spot. They aren't. There's so many insecurities that
(28:02):
are walking around and they do the touchdown dances and
they do all that kind of stuff and you're thinking,
oh my god, what a freaking athlete? A what a
what a what a god? What a figure? And again
he takes that uniform off, and the insecurities are right
there with.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
And maybe even more so because at least I know,
like I, nothing's real if you're a pro athlete, what's real?
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Right?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Like? What's who is real? Who's here because of me?
Or who? Even though you're my best friend? How did
I get to know you? I knew you through a
friend And the only reason why I know that friend
is because I play. So do you really like me?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Like?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
That's God? It's a crazy world.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah man, yeah man. But if you need help, please
reach out to someone. Talk to someone, get a professional,
and just find out what are your triggers? Find out
what are things that take you that way. Sometimes you
have to eliminate some of the people from your life
because those are the triggers. And then get a plan.
Get a plan, Get a plan and work your plan.
Work your plan, man, stay on task. And but you know,
(29:09):
sad news.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Very sad. All right, let's take a first break. When
we come back, Kurt, you want to talk to the
second second. You know, well, we get Curt and Ba
hanging with the boys. Will we ride back?
Speaker 6 (29:21):
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Say, Cowboys Fans.
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Speaker 7 (30:01):
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Speaker 3 (30:08):
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Speaker 7 (30:16):
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Crown Royal and the Dallas Cowboys are bringing back the
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(30:43):
stopping this NFL season. That's Crownrooyal dot com. Please drink responsibly.
Speaker 7 (30:50):
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See Wingstop dot com slash offers for full details.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Back to Hanging with the Bulls.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Welcome back to the second segment. I Hang with the
Boys brought you each and every show by a blockchain
dot com. Oh Cheane, thank you blockchain.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
We gotta be quick. We gotta do another commercial. We
gotta go like five minutes here and then come back
for five.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah, gotta take care of everybody. Yeah, all right. Halfway
through the NFL season. Where where Kurt start with you?
Just to get you involved here?
Speaker 4 (31:53):
I don't want to be involved.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Come on, Kurt, where's your expectation as compared to reality
coming into this season? What what did you expect? And
how do you feel about where you are?
Speaker 4 (32:08):
I think that I probably the Homer in me probably
had higher expectations and was realistic. Twenty twenty vision. You're
looking back at a new head coach, a new differensive coordinator,
roster that wasn't maybe as talent as we hoped.
Speaker 6 (32:23):
And so.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
Maybe this is where we're supposed to be. You know,
it's just not not the championship team I think we
had hoped going in when we all were full of hope.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
We need to pull the maybe we do this tomorrow.
We pulled our our predictions and see where we were.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
Yeah, I want to say I was like six and
two something like that.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I mean, it was ridiculous, a little, a little high.
I think, I think I feel pretty good about the
direction of where this thing is headed. Like I think
the hell you know, I mean for the first at
the beginning of the season, no, but what you know,
(33:06):
the the the code that the head coach. I think
he's called some really good games. I think he's called
some very questionable games. Growing pains as a head coach,
first time I did.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
In the last two games, he hasn't been really good.
But I also believe the last two games he's had
to spend a little bit more time on the defensive size,
so maybe he's not giving off. So that was my like,
I'm like, get back, get back, get back to doing,
get back over here full time, my boy.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Give him a little grace. I think, for the first
time as an organization, since I can, since I've been here,
you have ownership, not directly admitting we didn't evaluate our
players correctly, but going and doing something about it. Because
usually it's hey, we can fix this. We'll go grab
(33:52):
this gal off the street, We'll get this guy off
the couch. We'll get this guy. You went and made
some moves going Okay, here's our problem right up the middle.
This is our problem. Let's go fix it. So I
applaud them for doing that too little, too late this year. Yes, absolutely,
but for the first time, it feels like a change
in direction, which I don't think I've felt ever before,
(34:14):
because you know, eight and eight, eight and eight, eight
and eight, Oh, we're good. We just had this guy
was hurt and this happened, and this was I feel
like they maybe backed into this, but there's a fundamental
type change that they're hopefully it's going to have to
get through this this season, and then depending on what
they do with the draft, we'll see if they really
have that fundamental, you know, change in what they're doing.
(34:38):
I wish I thought the offensive line was going to
be a lot better than what it is. I think
that's been a little bit of a disappointment.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
I don't worry about that.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
I don't think you could get much better play out
of the quarterback. He's had a couple off games, but
that is directly tied of the offensive line. The receivers
are great, the run game is great, the defense just
I mean, you can't really say anything about the defense.
It's been a disaster. Yeah, but I think this is
about where I thought they would be, And if they
had any semblance of the defense, I think this would
(35:08):
be a completely different looking season and you would be
a lot way better than you are now. But I'm
okay defense, kick that to the side. I'm okay with.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
What everybody else does.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yeah, good point. But what about you, Jesse? Where are
they at right now kind of where you thought they would.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Be as a resident hater on this show.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yes, nothing less.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I think when we go back and look at the
grand total, I think I had them winning maybe one
more game than what Vegas said they were going to win.
I did not think coming into the year that they
were Super Bowl contenders. I did not think they were
going to be this bad, right, Like they're historically bad
on the defense, And of course now you have the
(35:56):
offense which feels like it's doing some overcompings for it
that's now messing there flowing rhythm up. But as this
thing began to unfold, because like the way I looked
at it was, I saw all the guys that had left,
whether that was going to other teams being released, so
(36:18):
on and so forth, and I was like, man, they're
not replacing these guys, you know. I'm like a lot
of talent is going out the door. Yeah, Like you
start dating all the way back. Like you talk about
those core pieces you think you couldn't lose Jlu right
now right Orren's armstrong, you think you use take Lawrence
right about now? See, And while I get while they're here,
(36:43):
you're looking for them to be way up here all
the time. But this is how good teams are formed,
is that if you can keep a guy like Tank
and then have a guy like Micah and Jordan Lewis,
and then you know, the one thing that we've if
the Joneses were as proactive in the middle as they
(37:06):
were this year, think about if they like going to acquire,
don't don't go acquire a guy in the middle that's
on his way out right. This is what we talk about,
spending the money to get the assets that are needed.
Let's let's let's I don't know, Chris, if you're ready,
let's do another break so that we can come back
(37:27):
to our last commercial and finish out with this.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
All right, take our last break right back on Hanging
with the Boys.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Cowboys fans.
Speaker 7 (37:35):
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Speaker 7 (39:02):
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Speaker 2 (39:45):
Back day Hanging with Them Bull Welcome back to the
final segment of Hanging with the Boys, brought to you
each and every show by seven to eleven, And just
like seven eleven, we are always open for business. Twenty
four to seven. All right, you were making a point
about the what's your point talking about the season, and
(40:06):
if it was where you.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Yeah, yeah, And so replacing guys like sending guys away,
not you know, replacing guys and then keeping those core
pieces your Jordan Lewis is your tanks. You like, of course,
you know, you would like to have one of the
best pass prushers, you know, an A plus elite player
on your team, but like, you just don't replace those guys.
And that's the thing. Sometimes you just think, oh, what
(40:28):
was put the next guy in there? And the next
guy may not have that dog that you need. You
can use a dog right now. You can use a
Jordan Lewis dog. You can lose. You can use a
tank Lawrence right now.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Right.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
And so the thing that you looked at from the
Joneses perspective, in the front office perspective was, you know,
really don't go get bottom of the barrel like Quinn Williams.
Imagine having you didn't need to have tank, But imagine
if you still had Jay Lou and you had Quinn
(40:58):
and you had Micah. You have attitude, you have somebody
who's legit in the middle and then you have this
ferocious pass rusher. Now you can start adding a Logan
Wilson right now, that's when you that's when when you
have the right amount of players in there. Now I
(41:19):
can start piecing other things together. But you can't build
a defense or an offense with a bunch of pieces.
There needs to be some standouts.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
It seems like there's pieces a lot of them. Were
they're really counting on guys coming back from injury, on
young guys stepping up.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Yeah, that's a lot of hope, right, Like, that's a
lot of hope. And and and as the great Marvin
Lewis told me, like, potential gets you fired. Like so
you can tell me about the potential all day long
that that doesn't If that potential doesn't work out, I
get fired. I like to have sure things, you know
what I mean. And you don't win in this league
(41:58):
without talented players. I'm sorry, you just don't. Like you
go around and look around the league, like, look who's winning,
you know what I mean. Kansas City they got a
damn they got three Hall of famers on their team,
you know what I mean, The Hall of Fame coach
and a probably Hall of Fame defensive coordinator. You just
don't you need talented players. The Philadelphia Eagles, they won
the Super Bowl last year, they got a couple of
(42:20):
guys that will probably I mean at that time they
had Kelsey and they had sae Quon's probably going to
go to Hall of Fame, and you know, they have
high level players all across the board. You just don't
win in this league without it. You can contend you
could be in games, but to truly have to win
it because the skill level is just far too great.
(42:43):
And then the good teams also are accompanied with these
excellent coaches. So when you have to go up and
you have to face the Detroits, and you got to
face the Niners, and you got to face the Green Bays,
and you got to face the Rams, you've run into
an issue because one you don't have enough Jimmy's and
Joe's and then two you don't have enough x's and o's.
(43:04):
So you you, you, you shot the hell all the
way around, all the way around the park, you know
what I mean. So I mean, coming into this year,
I didn't think and this is before micaeh was even
traded away. I was like, Okay, they'll compete. But I'm like, yeah,
(43:24):
I'm like, they're not. I didn't see front Runner. I
didn't see you know, winning the division. I definitely didn't
see super Bowl written on this team. And I mean,
and it showed you just like to trust and believe
that it's always going to be. Like even now, like
people are hoping and praying that we had Savone Rebel's
dad was on my other show. He was in the chat.
(43:47):
He's in the chat like, yeah, my son's getting to
pick on Tuesday, Monday night. I'm like, whoa dad, Like,
you know, I love it. I love it, Pops, I
love it. Absolutely love the energy that you're giving your son.
But now if he doesn't, don't get mad at me
when I called him out for it, because you set
him up for this, you know what I'm saying. And
then a lot of people are like, oh, we get
over shown back, And I'm just like, man, I had
(44:08):
to play the football in a long time. I want
him to succeed, but we but to put that now
you're putting so much pressure on them. Right, So now
think about how thisbi commisastion. It goes back to the
mental health of this whole thing. We already know that
the Marvin Overshowing is a guy who here's everything. He
(44:30):
hears it, so does he accept the pressure of of it.
What happens when it if it doesn't go right? Now,
we can say what happens if it goes right? Great?
What if it doesn't?
Speaker 2 (44:41):
That's what Nat always talks about, right, Give these guys
a chance.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Like, yeah, like what if of them?
Speaker 6 (44:47):
What if?
Speaker 3 (44:47):
What if in the first game he plays twist an ankle?
You know, I'm not asking, I'm not wishing that. I'm
just saying, there is a lot of you there's been
a lot of pressure that's been put on the shoulders
of these guys coming back, you know what I'm saying,
to save this season. So I don't know, man, it's
it's it's gonna be interesting. And the Cowboys right now
(45:08):
they have to kind of go like seven and one
in the last eight games to a chance to have
a chance like that, you know, and you you can't confidently,
even with the pickups that we had with Logan and Quinny,
you can't confidently just go into the game now said
we're gonna beat the Raiders. How many times we said
that this year? And all of a sudden now. Yeah,
(45:29):
like teams have been goot Juice leading up to US
All Stars playing us back to Gooc's juice after us, right, Like,
so I can't confidently say, oh, there's a no brainer.
There's a no brainer that you know, as bad as
(45:51):
Gino's meant to play this year, we're gonna smoke them, Okay,
like we said that any times before, and we're like,
you know, there's Russell Wilson nuts out there. There's there's
a Kobe Brssett that's out there. There's a little Tink
Tink and Carol Lonta that's out there, like there's a
lot of you, Like I just you just can't. You
can't confidently just say oh, we're gonna win. And then
(46:13):
you definitely can't completely say after Vegas, Troit, Kansas City,
you know, uh, Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
So yeah, all right, fellas, good stuff. Jess, thanks for
sharing man, really good stuff. Kurt. Good seeing to Nate.
We will see you tomorrow. Chris, thanks for keeping us
on the air. Josh, thanks for keeping him company. We'll
be back tomorrow, same time, same place. Boy, Josh handing
back here. Come on, okay, never mind, hang with the boys.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
This has been a production of dallascowboys dot Com and
the Dallas Cowboys Football Club
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