October 10, 2025 • 60 mins
Mikki Williden PhD is a New Zealand-based registered nutritionist with a wealth of knowledge in metabolic health, fat loss, and performance nutrition. With over twenty years of experience, Dr. Williden specializes in helping women over 35 achieve lasting fat loss results.
As an endurance athlete and podcast host, Dr. Williden brings a unique perspective to the conversation. This episode explores how to bridge science with practical strategies, empowering wellness professionals like you to elevate your practice. Don’t miss this chance to learn from a true expert and discover actionable tips to enhance your clients’ journeys toward wellness.
Episode Overview:
0:00 Intro
4:40 Mikki’s Background and Expertise
6:10 Childhood Obesity Research
7:50 Fat Loss Programs and Meal Plans
14:45 The Importance of Community in Coaching
20:30 Navigating the Nutrition Industry
28:05 Target Audience and Program Suitability
31:35 Shifting Focus to Mindset
32:05 Teaching New Skills and Behaviors
36:35 Diet Breaks and Metabolic Resets
43:00 Challenges with Moderation
55:15 The Role of Podcasts in Business Growth
Connect with Mikki on:
Website: https://www.mikkiwilliden.com
Podcast: https://podcast.mikkiwilliden.com/episodes
IG: https://www.instagram.com/mikkiwilliden/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mikkiwillidennutrition/
X: https://twitter.com/MikkiWilliden
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
My guest today is Dr.
Mikki Williden.
She's a New Zealand-based registered nutritionist with a PhD in human nutrition, has over 20 years experience specializing in metabolic health, fat loss, and performance nutrition.
She has a strong focus on helping women over 35 achieve lasting fat loss results.
And she's also an endurance athlete, a podcast host, and the co-author of the 40 over 40 cookbook series.
(00:23):
Mikki is passionate about bridging science and real world strategies to empower women and wellness professionals alike.
And I think you, a wellness professional,
We'll love this conversation with my good friend Mikki Williden.
Hi, I'm Erin Power.
I'm a health coach, a health coaching educator, and mentor, and your host of Health Coach Radio.
(00:44):
This podcast delves into the art, science, and business of health coaching.
Whether you're aspiring to land a coaching dream job or to embark on your own entrepreneurial adventure, we cover it all.
Our mission is to help you grow your career, elevate your income, change the lives of the clients who need your help, and leave a lasting mark in this rapidly growing field.
(01:05):
It's time for health coaches to make an impact.
It's time for Health Coach Radio.
Hey, Mikki.
Hey, Erin.
You and I are business buddies.
We are in a mastermind group together, and it's been fun to hang with you, even though you're all over on the other side of the world.
Mikki's in New Zealand and shows up for every one of our live events.
(01:29):
Like, damn.
I know.
And well, it actually does give me an excuse to go somewhere else other than New Zealand.
So that's what I love about it.
And it's just being in the room, you know, like there's so like.
You know, this is, you were just, you were chatting to me about this podcast before we kicked off, and you said it was an industry podcast.
And the ability for people of us, people like us in our industry to
(01:53):
be in the same room, to connect, but share ideas and experiences and just you know, the day to day is so valuable.
Yeah.
I just did, I recorded a solo episode for Health Coach Radio.
I don't think it's come out yet, but it, or maybe it has, I don't know.
Anyway, it's sort of this tongue-in-cheek
In defense of the solopreneur health coach, because I am still solopreneuring it after 15 years.
(02:18):
I still haven't hired anybody.
And I get my wrists slapped about this all the time.
But one of the tips I gave in that episode was (02:23):
if you're going to do this, if you're going to grind this out by yourself, you got to have business buddies.
You've got to have colleagues, somebody to talk to who does what you do.
So that's why we were saying beforehand why we keep reinvesting in the mastermind group is because we get we have buddies to talk to that do what we do
Yeah, 100% because my husband teases me.
(02:46):
He comes home.
He's like, oh, so have you been on Facebook all day then?
And it's like, well
Instagram, but yes, sort of.
Because it's like peop people have this idea of what like being in business actually is when you're not, you know, like just tied to an office or tied to a salary, uh, quite different.
Yes.
So my neighbor's like, Aaron's little Instagram business.
(03:07):
Like, okay, okay.
You don't know that's fine.
You don't know what I do.
I don't know what you do.
Yeah, yeah.
It's so good.
Yeah.
So, I want to start with that question (03:13):
like, who are you and what do you do?
Fill us in on your origin.
Yeah, awesome, Erin.
So, I am a registered nutritionist here in New Zealand.
I'm more I've got a research background, so and I'm super curious and super interested in a whole host of areas related to health and fitness and nutrition.
(03:35):
So
I have a physical education degree and a science degree in nutrition.
So I went through the traditional, I guess, route for studying.
And then did my master's
looking at obesity.
And then whilst I was working in academia, I completed my PhD in a more public health setting.
And then I taught for a number of years, but all the while kept up clinical experience.
(04:00):
So I've been a clinician for about 23 years or similar at this point
Because I really love because it's one thing to sort of learn something through research and reading science, but as you know, it's quite different when you're trying to apply it to the real world situation.
So I have both that sort of
Research pathway and that clinical experience.
(04:21):
Outside of that, though, I'm a runner, I'm a stepmum, I have a husband who I love immensely.
And when we
And I'm here in New Zealand and I love being outdoors.
I love coffee, beer, wine, food.
And reading.
There you go
Oh, gorgeous.
I actually don't know that I knew that you had this background in obesity is it research that you Yeah.
(04:48):
Yeah, it was.
So I did my Master's in childhood obesity, and it was much more from an environmental perspective.
So looking at these environmental factors for it.
And this was back in
I think started in 99, I think.
And this was before those environmental influences were so knowing.
You know, it was all much more about
personal responsibility, I guess.
(05:10):
And one of something that really stuck with me, Erin, actually, was that we interviewed parents about their children and whether or not they were overweight.
And about one third of the parents said, yes, my child is overweight.
But actually, objectively speaking, sort of I think closer to eighty percent of those children were in fact overweight, which
(05:34):
At the time, in 1999, like last century, you know, there was just this, it was beginning, it was just that lack of awareness of what normal weight was.
And that really just
Stuck with me, I think, because of how we've normalized so many things in society, even now, related to health, related to diet, nutrition, exercise.
(05:56):
But I think I got my first taste of what that sort of looked like.
Yeah.
But of a tangent.
Oh my gosh.
How dare you invoke last century?
Oh my goodness.
Like you immediately feel ancient.
Okay, so
That's interesting.
That's really cool.
So childhood obesity.
But now you work in the fat loss, body, recomposition space to this day.
(06:16):
So take us through how you what are you doing these days?
What's your job?
Yes.
So I run fat loss programs.
So I've got my I guess my signature program is a fat loss method that utilizes protein sparing modified fast as the fat loss tool.
but I couch it in a structured plan, which teaches people how to eat as a forever approach, if you like.
(06:44):
So it's
All of the same things that I'm sure you talk about with your clients, and anyone listening would talk about with their clients all of the time.
It's protein-forward, it's fiber, it's an appropriate carbohydrate load.
Utilizing strategies that help people feel satisfied, you know, volume, texture, real foods.
(07:05):
And it is a structured meal plan.
And I know that in our industry, there's a lot of contention about what, you know, what's best practice.
Like, surely giving someone a meal plan, you know, isn't that just not teaching them anything?
But I feel like it gives them guardrails and guidelines initially.
And because of, I think, my teaching background, I basically probably like you, Erin, I just spend a lot of time educating people.
(07:29):
Like the whole sort of eight week process
I never sell it as an eight-week program.
It's I sell it as a kickstart to their sort of forever approach.
Because there's no you know, there's no two ways around it.
Healthy food is healthy food.
Like you it like if you care about what you eat, this is actually how you should eat.
Like, I mean, yes, it looks different.
(07:50):
Everyone's plate can look different.
But I mean, let's be real.
Like, I mean, there's no other way to sort of do it.
So I sort of spend a lot of my time educating in that eight-week
plan, I suppose.
Outside of that, I see, you know, have a few hours a week where I work individually with people.
I do webinars, seminars.
(08:12):
I still do a little bit sort of guest lecturing in different places.
I have a podcast.
I sort of do all the things, and I do love hanging out on social, and I love giving a lot of value when I'm doing it.
So, yeah, those are the things.
Okay, that's a lot we can unpack because.
Well, first of all, it's interesting you brought up meal plans because I was having a conversation with another practitioner and we were talking about meal plans, and it is a very polarizing topic.
(08:39):
Some practitioners love them.
Some
don't love them.
But the thing is, it doesn't matter necessarily it doesn't matter necessarily what we love, although I will say it does it does matter, folks listening.
If you don't love meal plans, then figure out a way not to do them.
And if you do love meal plans, the good news is there's a way to factor them in.
I think now I you probably know this about me, maybe you don't, but I'm kind of anti-meal plan because I just don't want to make one again.
(09:04):
I just hated making it when I was in nutritionist school and I don't want to.
I have clients who want them.
So at the end of the day, some health consumers, many, find it to be a very useful tool.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I guess and I understand that.
And I feel like giving a meal plan means it takes a lot of that initial decision fatigue out of it for people.
(09:29):
And I think and I appreciate
Absolutely, why you hate them, but I just think people need structure and they need that, they need almost someone to take that burden from them, and they that's a really good starting point, it's never the end, and I think this is
It's how you use this tool.
I think that's the thing.
Whereas sometimes, like, and this is a bit of a beef I have with the industry, is that anyone can do a weekend course and be a macro coach.
(09:56):
And be wildly successful doing that and have absolutely no idea but what's in food and what food actually looks like and
and they don't need that knowledge to to give you macros.
And so and then they expect people to understand macros.
People don't eat macros, they eat food.
So, you know, in my language on that one, that's for sure.
(10:18):
With all respect to the macro, like again, macros is another thing where you either love it or you don't as a practitioner.
And
There's a health consumer who wants to track macros, and there's health consumers that don't want to.
So it's good.
Like a rising tide lifts all boats.
We need all kinds of things here.
But I like what you said, which is a meal plan is a really good
(10:41):
Sort of out the gate learning tool.
Yeah.
Because it's a visual.
You know, here's what a day of eating looks like.
Try your best to align to this.
And then I presume, I'd love to know.
We should talk about it.
How do you work with clients?
Like, do they have coaching opportunities with you where they can come back and say, the meal plan's working about 80%, here's where I'm kind of struggling, and then is there adjustments made?
(11:05):
So in the Eight Week Mondays Matter program, how do you work with people?
Coach in there.
Yeah, great question.
So it's so we've got
Learning opportunities through Zoom calls that we do fortnightly.
And also, I've got a tier of the plan whereby we also have office hours weekly.
(11:25):
To sort of have one-on-one, sort of 20-minute slots where they can talk individually.
But actually, a lot of the learning happens in the Facebook p
And so in if you're running a plan like this, like thankfully, I love Facebook, so it's I find it really an easy way for me to connect with people.
And whilst I give a meal plan, I also sort of supply it all comes along in a workbook that has the guidelines and has the philosophy or behind
(11:55):
The meals essentially.
And so all the while I'm, you know, telling you can swap this protein for this protein.
And this is why we've got these vegetables in, and absolutely, you can tweak it.
So
So it sort of provides that structure, but there's also a lot of flexibility.
And actually, to your point, just you were saying about there are people who love macros and people who hate macros
(12:16):
I also think there are people who think they love macros and then they find out what macros actually entails and like, actually, I don't like that shit.
I don't like that.
We don't love macros.
Give me something else
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, so in Monday's Matter, this is great.
I love that you explained sort of the moving parts of Monday's Matter because to me, what you've described is a structure.
(12:40):
That I contemplate to be the gold standard, actually.
So you've got a curriculum.
They are delivered sort of the teaching in a book, a workbook kind of thing.
There's group calls every two weeks.
There's office hours for one-on-one if they need it.
And then there's the community piece in Faceb
In the Facebook group, whatever community.
(13:01):
So I think there's a curriculum, the coaching, the community, the three C's, right?
I honestly believe that to be
what every good coaching program needs to have factored in.
I just wanted to repeat, reflect that back to you because I think that is a really nice model
Yeah, nice, nice.
And you know what?
Like I was super lucky to have learned that model from some colleagues of mine when I they asked me to collaborate on something with them.
(13:26):
And I'm like
Because I'd never quite figured out that the bit that was missing for me was the community piece actually.
Because I was a natural teacher and I knew how to give people the information
But I didn't realize the power of community, and probably COVID actually was when all this sort of came together for me.
(13:47):
I'm forever like grateful for the opportunity to learn from them that actually that was the bit that I was missing, and that in fact when my business took off
You know, when I actually sort of finally dialed that in and went, oh, this is actually what people want.
Because ultimately, actually, they do.
Particularly someone like me.
And I don't know if you're the same, Erin, but I really struggle to hold back with information.
(14:11):
Like, I just want to give people everything.
And I wanted, you know, because I feel like this is stuff they all should know.
And.
And and when you're overwhelmed with information, it's and it's unfamiliar, then having other people in the same boat is just it almost takes that overwhelm a little bit.
You're like, Oh, cool, I'm not the only person who's
(14:32):
Little bit flailing here, and it's not so bad, and it's not like I give so much that everyone's confused, but there will always be people who are like, Whoa, this is a lot.
So, having that community there to sort of talk through it is just so helpful.
Yeah, I've learned that too.
I've only in the last couple of years.
myself included a community piece to my coaching program.
(14:53):
I really dragged my heels, first of all, on moving from one-on-one.
to group, but eventually you have to.
You just have to because you can't scale one on one.
It just it's it ceilings out basically.
Yeah.
And then and then only in the last couple of years have I really developed a community around it.
And what I think
to your point is really interesting.
Is like, I'm teaching these basic anchor actions, the methodology of the program, but each individual is interpreting it differently, interpreting it and applying it differently.
(15:21):
And so if Sally comes into the group chat and says, hey, I'm really struggling to understand the funnel or some proprietary little piece of my thing
Well, I can answer Sally, but I'm just going to say the same thing that she's already heard me say a hundred times.
Maybe Jane comes in and gives her a different interpretation of it that Sally could understand.
And it's incredible.
It's incredible to have.
(15:43):
That different voice, I think to your point, like there's a lot of overwhelm for the health consumer.
And the community piece is interesting because it's sort of like we're all figuring this out together.
Yeah, I completely agree in context of our lives.
Yeah, and we learn so much as practitioners from that community as well.
(16:03):
to your point about that different interpretation, I'm not sure what you listen to in terms of podcasts and stuff, Erin.
I know a bit because obviously we've chatted over the years, but
I find I listen to the same people on different podcasts saying the same things, but they're saying it slightly differently.
And that actually just allows me to think differently about something
That then allows me to explain it in a different way as well.
(16:26):
You know, like there is real value in repetition.
And particularly in this space, and I think if people are listening to this, not.
as practitioners, but even just to sort of learn stuff themselves.
Like it takes time to learn skills around food.
And this is
what I don't think the general consumer actually understands much is that these are skills that you have to learn.
(16:51):
And just because you eat does not mean that you know how to do it
So don't expect it to be easy.
And I'm actually really big on this (16:58):
just being straight up front.
This is hard work, and it's hard work you have to do.
And actually, you should relish the opportunity to do this.
Like, it is actually like, this is this is, you know, it's a privilege
I think to be in a position to actually think about your diet and think about it in a way that helps optimize your health.
(17:19):
And the more that you get in and you do those reps and you learn those skills, the easier it comes.
Don't try and shy away from it.
I get.
a little bit ragey maybe about it.
I don't know.
Oh, this is a hell yes for me because so so you and I are both kind of in the in the fat loss space, but not everybody listening to this is in the fat loss space.
You might be inside the performance space or
(17:40):
postnatal or whatever the the thing is.
There's a million million niches we can go into.
But I always frame fat loss, for example, as skill development
It's not telling me what to do how.
It's not unlike learning to play an instrument, which requires an element of learning, an element of practice, an element of screwing up.
(18:02):
And getting better, just like any other skill we would develop.
But for some reason, like the weight loss industry specifically has really sort of almost lobotomized people from believing that they have what it takes to learn how to eat.
To support their health or weight loss goals.
So there's a this is really crucial for coaches listening because I don't want health coaches to
(18:25):
Embody the clipboard wielding, do this, eat this.
Here's how much.
Like, to a certain extent, maybe that's what the beef is with macro coaching.
It's like it's kind of this arbitrary math.
It's not necessarily
empowering somebody to embody skill development, perhaps.
And I don't want to paint every macro coach with that same brush.
But one of the opportunities we all have as health coaches is to
(18:49):
And I keep using the word empower to reempower the health consumer to understand their body and how the choices they make impact their outcom
Yeah, I 100%.
And so some of the messaging in nutrition I really disagree with right now, like the idea that there are no bad foods
I don't agree with that.
I don't think that it means that you can't eat them, but I mean, let's be clear, there are good and bad foods.
(19:14):
You know, there are foods that align with.
Health choices that you want to make, and there are foods that don't align with those health choices.
It doesn't mean it's not a reflection on you as a person or your character.
But I mean, there are good and bad foods.
Like, why are we not allowed to say that in nutrition anymore?
Yeah, I know.
It's funny.
(19:34):
So I just recorded a solo episode from my own podcast, and I was talking about how I'm sure you've heard this before, people will say,
I binged on the Doritos, but I think I just needed the crunch.
So I wanted to address this idea of needing crunch.
Like, there's no crunch in sufficiency.
You're not going to run deficient on crunch.
(19:55):
Like, that doesn't exist.
You don't need crunch.
You just really like Doritos.
Because they're hyper-palatable, uber-processed foods that are bingible.
And you ate too many of them, and that is objectively not a good health behavior.
And you didn't need a nutritionist to tell you that.
You already knew that.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, it's like.
Why aren't we allowed to say, hey, maybe don't binge on Doritos and you'll find this weight loss thing a lot easier?
(20:19):
I think you're right.
There's a lot of narrative that we're it's kind of weird
It is.
And also, to your like, it almost removes that agency.
Like, they had no real control on it.
I just needed this crunch.
Like, that is the thing that I needed to
to to like solve, if you like.
But it's no, you made the decision.
It is actually on you, and you're just reinforcing the narrative of
(20:42):
of the craving in that instance, and you're not actually doing yourself any good.
Like so let's be real.
Like it and that I think it should be empowering.
Yet a lot of the times if you use language like that and you talk like that and if people listen to your podcast,
The defensiveness that it sort of rises in someone means that actually, you know, like that's the pushback that you get.
(21:03):
Like, that's just that'
you know, I don't know.
Well, I think a lot of like specifically newer coaches or folks breaking into the industry would shy away from saying anything that might hurt someone's feelings, for example.
Yeah.
You and I have been at it for a little while where
I don't feel that I'm not nervous to say something that might hurt somebody's feelings.
If it hurts their feelings and they self-select out of my audience, cool.
(21:26):
Bye.
Yeah.
But if it lands enough
That they want to stick around and hear more.
Like, ultimately, what I'm getting at is health coaches hate marketing themselves, hate putting themselves out there, hate not hate, but are uncomfortable messaging anything.
But it's just this.
It's just.
It's just what do you stand for?
What do you stand for?
(21:46):
And you can stand for things that are polarizing.
And quite frankly, if you do.
It's going to help really focus your audience.
And then you'll like what you're doing because you're actually standing for something.
Yeah, 100%.
And I think about this when I.
Eat my breakfast, which is like a lot of the times at the moment, I'm big on yogurt bowls.
(22:07):
Oh no, which I know, and I and almost every time I eat one, I'm like
I'm like, well, it's funny actually.
I think of Tina in our business group as well because she's big on fruit right now.
I'm like, Tina will be loving my fruit bowl, my fruit and yogurt bowl.
And I'm like, fuck Erin will be bloody hating on my breakfast right now.
But.
To your point, I just love that you're out there going, What the hell?
(22:30):
A yoga bowl?
Because I'm not disagreeing with you on all of the points that you have for why you hate on the yoga bowls.
It doesn't stop me eating them because I enjoy them.
But I love that you're out there standing up for that because.
And yeah, you're just living that message.
Keto, carnivore, paleo, AIP, SCD, low FODMAP, so many diets.
(22:55):
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(23:41):
I love whenever the conversation on this podcast sort of sneaks around the edges of messaging, marketing, whatever we're going to call this, because
Maybe that's not even what it is.
It's just your identity as a practitioner in this massive, it's a freaking, was it $41 trillion industry now?
Like, it's.
Enormous.
And so, you know, how will you stand out?
Health coaches really struggle with saying there's so many people, this space is so saturated.
(24:06):
Do you feel that way?
Do you feel like the space is too saturated and you don't stand out?
No, I actually don't.
And someone asked me even maybe a couple of months ago, you know, who is your competition?
And I'm like,
Well, no one, you know, like actually, like, there's no one like me doing this.
Everyone is different.
(24:26):
And I mean, let's face it
There are enough people to go around.
And so it all comes back to messaging, marketing, or protocols, and how you do it and how good you are.
But if you've got all of those things in place, you know, there's definitely enough people to go around.
Yeah.
Well, I'm glad you brought up protocols because that was actually kind of the next thing on my little agenda here.
(24:49):
I actually love talk.
One of my favorite things to talk about.
I don't know, is programming or protocols, or however we're going to frame this.
So, the thing that I want to just, before I ask you the question and kind of kick the conversation over to you, I want to just explain to the listener what I'm getting at here, which is
Every one of us, even if we're in a similar category doing similar things, we all have a little different way of doing it, the way of doing it, the way of eating or the whatever the thing is.
(25:16):
We all have our own little thing.
Some little proprietary-ish spin, and that proprietary spin could be macro-tracking, quite frankly, or whatever it is, right
So inside your protocol inside your protocol, the method that you use is protein sparing modified fasting.
You use that as the kickoff for fat loss.
Which is so fascinating because my only familiarity with protein sparing modified fasting is like a very extreme approach to rapid fat loss.
(25:45):
That's how I know it.
Yeah, yes.
So and so essentially, and that's how I think I discovered it as well, looking at the literature, and it's used in
The obesity research to prepare people for surgery, or actually, interestingly, in a lot of adolescent
Literature as well, like obese, morbidly obese adolescents to help them lose weight.
(26:07):
But of course, clinically speaking, they might be hospitalized
or it might be outpatient, but they are they are following this protein sparing modified fast.
Often it's a liquid diet, and they're given micronutrients as well, continuously for, say,
three to six months.
And so it is this like day by day.
Whereas I use it as as a fasting mimicking approach actually.
(26:30):
So as it it so one to three days of a week, depending on your
I guess your level of weight loss, which you desire, is a way to put that.
You are going to be doing a protein-only day.
Which is between, I mean, I'm not quite as strict as the protocols.
I think it might be eight to 900 calories a day, one to three days of that week.
(26:52):
And outside of those days, you're eating in that way that we described before.
which is still actually objectively quite low calorie.
We add in extra food for all exercise regardless of the day.
So that's just the base plan
But ultimately, if you lower your calories on one to three days of a week to eight or nine hundred calories, you're eliciting a deficit across a week without actually having to track.
(27:16):
So it's a rare person who wouldn't lose weight in that method
And so that's how I utilize the protein sparing fast in the program.
That's cool.
And who who do you work with?
Like, who is this best suited for?
Your program?
Yeah.
So I actually wonder whether the ultimate person for my program is a guy of any age, to be honest.
(27:41):
Like, I mean, men are very good at following instructions.
and they like simplicity of of the approach that I just described.
But ninety percent of my people are women, probably forty plus actually.
who have and and I don't know about you, Erin, but I have I've noticed sort of two avatars, if you like, with women.
So a a woman who's been on a diet forever.
(28:04):
Or feels like she's been on a diet forever.
In her head, she's dieted forever.
Of course, it doesn't always operate like that.
Has always struggled, has tried everything, cannot lose weight.
That's one one woman.
And then the other one is never had to think about diet at all, has always been relatively slim, never really exercised for
for anything other than enjoyment, if they've exercised at all, and then suddenly perimenopause hits and things change for them.
(28:32):
And they're a little bit like left in this
You know, I've never had to think about my food, and now I have to think about it.
But my program actually works for both of them because fundamentally, it doesn't really matter.
I mean, and this is another message which people don't like hearing, but we all want to think that we're sort of unique snowflakes with our own, you know, with something, you know, is this program going to work for me because of and then
(28:59):
four paragraphs of their personal situation, which I'm really empathetic towards, but ultimately it will work, you know, like because these methods actually solve
90% of the problem.
Yeah, well, actually, I'll take that a step further.
I think almost anything would work if you stuck with it long enough.
(29:22):
Yeah, I like that.
I yeah, I agree.
If you stuck with it long enough.
Yeah, that's literally the issue.
So, like, you know, what's interesting is that I've only recently come across that second cohort.
The woman who's like, I never had to worry about this.
This is brand new.
Where did this weight come from?
I never used to run into those women, but I guess this is part of the menopause transition that we're seeing because, as I'm aging, my clients are aging, and here we are.
(29:47):
So there's that.
But the women that I speak to who have been quote unquote dieting forever, you know, they go through their list of things they tried and they tried V-shred and they tried keto and they tried fasting and they tried this and they tried that and they t
And this worked for a little while, and that worked for a little while, but none of it was sustainable.
And for me, it's like, and none of it was sustainable.
Why did you quit
So everything you tried, you quit.
(30:10):
That's not a mark on your character.
It was too quittable.
So, can we create something that is unquittable?
Is what it comes down to, I think.
I agree.
And that's why, you know, I think actually.
Following a diet, this might rile some people up, but it's easy.
If someone gives you a plan, you should.
It's all there, actually.
(30:32):
Same with exercise.
If someone gives you an exercise plan, it is all there for you to follow.
The thing that's missing is the mindset thing, the belief that you can do it.
the fact that it is hard work, that the hard work is worth it.
Yes, it's discipline.
And I think the and I mean, not just I think, we know
That mindset is actually the biggest issue.
(30:52):
It's so thrown around there, it's almost a bit glib now.
But I spend a lot of my coaching in the first few weeks in the Facebook page.
You know, you do daily posts, and in addition to responding to people's
queries, but I sort of move those daily posts from the instructional to being very mindset based.
(31:13):
probably from week three, because ultimately, by week three, you've sort of got some habits, you know, you've got some things in place, and then you actually just have to continue to do it.
And that is all about being up here
Completely agree.
I completely agree.
So let's reflect that back.
So essentially we do have to teach people
some kind of new skill or behavior around food.
(31:35):
Because that is the that is the mechanism by which they're going to achieve some kind of quick win.
And I think
I do think clients want a quick win.
They want to feel, oh, my sugar cravings have diminished or my pants feel a little looser or something tangible.
Agree
And after, to your point, the first couple of weeks, it's like, basically, you know everything you need to know.
(31:57):
Now you've got to just go execute it with some relative consistency for long enough
To get the outcome goal you want.
And then we should talk about how do you maintain this for the rest of your life?
Because if every other thing you tried wasn't sustainable, then that's the problem we have to solve.
So that's the mindset to your point is like becoming the kind of person who executes these food habits in life, but also does it for years, decades of life.
(32:28):
100%.
And two things which I notice with some people.
One is that on day one, they're asking about maintenance.
What happens on week eight?
And I'm like, no, no, no, no.
Can we just
Let's go day by day here.
Like, we do not have to even think about week eight at this point in time.
And the second
(32:48):
thing which I which I notice and I immediately shut down is this idea that this is what we're doing for the next eight weeks.
That's it.
And then we'll go back to our normal.
Like you can't go like, why is it that people think they can go back?
Like
evidence like their own evidence in front of them proves to them that that that's not a successful way to do it.
(33:11):
Still, it's in their head that things can just go back to the way that they were.
Like, no, you can't go back.
And that's the mindset thing.
Yeah.
I wonder.
And also, also, can I just add in?
people forget how much they change and how transformational the processes from that sort of psychological element and their tastes change too.
(33:34):
Right now, they might not like blueberries and broccoli.
But by week eight, they're probably going to love them.
And then the thing they think they love, they no longer get that same enjoyment from just, yeah, but people forget and/or know that.
So you sort of got to trust that too.
Yeah, it's so interesting because you and I have been doing this for a while, and I've seen clients have that switch of the flip.
(33:59):
I know that switch is going to flip, where
They believe they can do it.
And it's just a matter of time before it happens.
But in the early stages, I wonder if this is something that the industry
Really screwed up for people, which is, for example, my program is six months long, but it used to be eight weeks long, similar to yours.
Yeah.
(34:19):
And it was called Eight Weeks to Effortless.
Eight weeks was in the name.
And if it list was as well.
If it list was in the name, yes.
But the thing is, like
Every maybe I'm just thinking out loud.
Who knows?
But every weight loss program has some kind of time frame because my current one's a six-month metabolic mentorship.
(34:40):
Six months is in the name.
So it's like, oh, this is the amount of time I need to devote to this.
Yes.
But the thing is, if we said, if we gave it some other name, like your forever fat loss plan, they're like, forever?
Yeah.
Really?
Forever.
Like, there's a complete lack.
It's so lost in translation.
(35:00):
For women, especially, I think, who have been really embroiled in the diet programming, it's like, I've got to do this for a period of time to get the outcome.
And we women just maybe I'm generalizing aren't programmed to contemplate that this would be the forever intervention.
But actually, we were talking before we recorded about Dr.
Spencer Nadelski, who came on your podcast.
I think it was him that shared this because he's an obesity
(35:23):
Medicine guy.
And this is years ago, and I quote, I paraphrase him to this day.
He said
In order to maintain weight loss, you must maintain the intervention that got you the weight loss.
So if it's keto, you got to maintain keto.
If it's Ozempic, you got to maintain Ozempic.
Yeah.
(35:43):
Like maintenance is actually built into the weight loss conversation.
Yeah.
And we don't spend enough time talking about how hard the diet is after the diet.
You know, like, and I think this is the real issue.
Something else which we haven't talked about in the program that I have, and which is probably a bit OTT, but whatever, it's how I've set it up, is that we have a diet break every fortn
(36:07):
So every fortnight for three days, I just lift calories slightly.
So we add in more carbohydrate
We get a metabolic reset meal, which is other people would say it's a treat meal or a cheap meal, but I hate that terminology.
So, you know, I just
Framed it something else, it's the same thing.
But it gives people an opportunity to practice eating how they might eat at maintenance because
(36:32):
Most people are either on a diet or so far off a diet, it's not even funny.
And I know that it I one of the best amounts of feedback, one of the best feedback I got
From about the diet break strategy, someone said, My head was good, but still a little bit too structured.
And like, yep, that's the problem.
(36:55):
That's your problem actually, because normal maintenance eating
is still structured.
Like it's not free for all.
These are the skills that you don't have that you have to learn.
And so it's an eight week program.
And in real life, if I was working with an individual, I wouldn't put a diet break in every two weeks at all.
But it just gives them that opportunity because people don't have confidence there either, Erin.
(37:18):
You know, people are actually really great at losing weight.
We can lose weight.
They just take something out.
I just stop eating.
You know, actually, when we're in it, we're very good at it
But we have no idea how to then maintain that.
And we've got to build confidence.
And so I want them to do it in this way that they
That they can build that confidence, but I'm also there to sort of helping to troubleshoot and guide them.
(37:40):
And of course, you're going to screw it up.
You're going to overeat.
I mean, but.
That will happen anyway.
That's going to happen anyway.
Yeah.
No, I love that.
I think that's really clever.
And so I just want to get into the weeds on that a little bit.
So you.
So the diet break is kind of like a slight calorie cycle, carb cycle moment.
So there's a little metabolic reset, but you still put some parameters around it.
(38:01):
What are the what sort of are the parameters?
So, so one of the main ones is we don't change the structure of the eating.
Like, I'm not a person who loves snacks, and I don't think
You necessarily are either.
I think snacks are fine if you're macro tracking because you can account for it.
But so I'm like, we keep this the structure of the meals are the same.
You're still having three meals a day.
(38:22):
But we're adding in a carbohydrate serve to each of the meal because I'm I naturally am lower carb.
Like I'm that's just how I roll in my practice and just personally.
So we're adding in some fruit.
We might be adding in some sourdough bread.
We're adding in some rice.
We're adding in, you know, potato or sweet potato
But then on top of that, we're also having that metabolic reset meal where it actually doesn't matter what you eat at all, but it is how you eat it.
(38:50):
It's about
Really enjoying it, making sure you're not feeling overful when you leave, you know, when you finish the meal, and you're not just trying to scoff
So much in because it's the last time you're ever going to have that food.
You know, all of those sort of mentality that comes up when you eat off plan
And then also I'm like, you know, on another night, we'll have like a glass of wine or a beer or we'll have some chocolate.
(39:13):
So because actually all of these things
should ideally you should be able to include in your forever approach, but often it's the way that we feel about the foods, the way that we eat the foods
And if I had, for example, said, oh, just eat whatever you like on a Saturday as the diet break strategy, there will just like it would be chaotic.
(39:37):
It would be chaos.
They would just be snacking and eating and feeling full, but getting in those three biscuits because I'm not allowed them again until next Saturday, like all of that awful diet mentality that we really, you know, like ideally would get rid of.
Yeah, yeah.
No, that's cool because it helps them to experience what it can feel like to have enough of something to scratch the itch or feel the joy of food, which I think there is
(40:04):
There has to be joy in food, but it but when we go like if we go restrict binge, that's neither of those feels good.
It doesn't feel good, but there is a feel good in the gray area in between those two extremes.
And it's like when women and I always say women, but when people are dieting or chronically dieting, they've just never spent any time in this very kind of
(40:25):
Gray moderate zone where it's like you're enjoying food, you're having what you want, just you're not overdoing it.
Yeah, and that's exactly it because
You must experience this in your clientele as well.
Is that people just afraid to fill their plates with food?
You know, like just in normal life.
And I know actually you talk about this a lot, and I talk about this a lot as well.
(40:48):
is that people don't grasp the concept that you can have this completely big full meal and it is and it's not overdoing it.
Like you don't have to eat like a little bird.
And that is not an appropriate amount of food, even if you're dieting, you know.
Like, I really like, if you see my meals, if you follow me on Instagram, you see how I eat, how others eat.
(41:10):
They are full meals, but they're just really leaning on a lot of those sort of strategies that allow you to eat full meals and feel satisfied
without starving yourself.
And I think people, when they are quote unquote, being good, they're just under eating, which then leads to that binge.
I know.
No, it's so true.
And I was thinking about I had a client one time who got to the nearly the end of the program, and she had been perfect the whole time.
(41:39):
And then she said something on one of the coaching calls.
She said, It's amazing.
I can't believe how compliant I've been.
This has been so great and I've seen great results.
She said, you know, the one thing is my husband and I used to go for Mexican food every Wednesday night.
We haven't done that in the last four months.
And I was like,
Okay.
This is your homework.
You must mandatory go for Mexican food on Wednesday.
(42:00):
We have to figure out Mexican food.
Like, what do you mean you abandoned this whole ritual that you and your husband have?
So, you could behave yourself on the diet.
Well, you're definitely going for Mexican food.
Let's just do that together and just like hit that, you know, that's the part of the skill development is going for Mexican food and figuring it out.
100%, I agree.
And one other point which and this will ruffle feathers as well maybe, depending on philosophy, but for some people, there will be foods that
(42:27):
When they eat them, they can't stop.
Like, you just cannot moderate them.
Like, I don't know why we don't acknowledge that more.
Like, we do in other areas, you know, in other areas, but for whatever reason, in food, we should.
I think it's such a myth that everyone should be able to enjoy food in moderation.
Because if you can't, then suddenly you feel like you're the failure.
(42:49):
That really sort of grinds my gears
So do they have in New Zealand, do you have mini eggs?
Chocolate eggs?
They're little chocolate eggs that come out at Easter time.
It's like a little ball of chocolate with a candy coating.
Yeah, yeah, delicious.
Okay, that's just a perfect example of an unmoderatable food.
I don't know what they put in those things, but every you know, every Easter time.
(43:14):
They put the kilogram bags out in the grocery store, and my clients will come in and say, Well, I bought the kilogram bag of mini eggs just to have a little treat.
And wouldn't you know, I ate the whole bag?
It's like, Yeah.
That's mini eggs.
That's how they work.
Don't buy those.
No.
And, you know, and so.
I think acknowledging that and recognizing which of the foods you love, that you just know, look, if I open that bag of Doritos, I'm going to finish it.
(43:40):
So I have to be all right with that.
And that's the thing.
That's the, you know, be all right with the consequences.
But I feel like we do our clients a disservice if we're like, well, you should be able to enjoy just a handful.
Like, we'll get you there.
You know what?
You can try your best, but on some things, you may not be able to.
Being really upfront about things like that with your clients, I think, is important.
(44:01):
Yeah, we have to.
We have to.
They're coming for a transformation.
They're coming for skill development.
I don't think I just don't think coddling, if that's not the right word, but I don't think coddling or you know I was just chatting with one of our peers, Bonnie, who's a registered dietitian, and that was one of her perspectives too, is this idea that all foods fit.
No.
They don't.
(44:22):
Quite frankly.
Totally.
I if you wouldn't mind, Mikki, yeah, would you wouldn't mind just like kind of driving the conversation a bit around your business?
Because a lot of our
Coaches listening are trying to start businesses or grow businesses.
Yeah.
So take me through (44:37):
like
How long have you been doing I mean, how long have you been doing this?
And really, take I guess this is a humongous open-ended question, but I just want to get a sense of
like you've got a successful business, a successful practice.
Was it successful right out the gate?
Or what kind of mistakes or struggles did you learn?
What things have you learned the hard way that maybe we can
(44:59):
front load for folks listening so they don't maybe make those same mistakes?
Yeah, great question, Erin.
And obviously I've been a practicing nutritionist
Forever, but I would say it's very, to your point, very difficult to do the one-on-one and have a very successful business in that sense because you end up burning out because there's only so many hours in a day.
(45:20):
So I feel like my success, my real success started.
So in 2015, the
Other person that helps me in my business, Cam, he developed, he's an IT guy who developed a software that allowed me to do meal planning online
And he was like, you could just scale your business by selling meal plans, Mikki, as opposed to necessarily like, you know, having those one on one consults.
(45:45):
And I'm like
Cool.
So I just started really small with like, and the meal plans weren't necessarily weight loss plans.
They were just, here's how to eat three meals a day, which wasn't a great business strategy, to be honest.
No one, you know, people don't.
People don't really buy into that.
It's not a problem necessarily.
No, it's not a problem, totally.
And if it is a problem, it can be solved by HelloFresh, you know, like they don't need me to tell them
(46:10):
So it wasn't until until COVID when I had that opportunity with the the the colleagues to do a group program and then I realized that they had
They'd built this community that I was sort of coming into and helping them with.
And I'm like, that's a community piece.
So I sort of got those, which we'd already discussed, I sort of put those pieces together
(46:32):
But the real success came when I started listening to the likes of Jill and Shantae.
And I'm like, how do I actually run this as a business
And I'm not sure what it's like in Canada, but here in New Zealand, it's you don't talk yourself up.
You know, if you're like at all, and like if you're in your emails.
Selling, like people literally I had one lady say to me, Mikki, I love your science communication, your free science communication you bring out weekly.
(46:59):
So it was nice she acknowledged that, but she said, I hate your self-promotion.
And so and like it was she took the time to email that back and it really
Stuck with me.
I'm like, man, this is New Zealand for you.
Like, I cannot be a Costco and take out large ads in newspapers and advertise myself this way.
This is actually how I advertise myself.
So.
(47:20):
So I had to really lean into the likes of Jill's strategies and Shantae's mindset stuff and really do a lot of personal development, I think, which I continue to do now, and business development and just
which allowed me to get more confident in the selling piece because I knew that I had something that I could sell and it could really help people.
(47:44):
But I needed methods to help me with that.
So I think that is how I got success was actually getting a coach myself and being in the room with people like you.
Yeah, completely agree.
So shout out to
Getting a coach, first of all.
And that's Jill Coleman and Shante Cofield, both of whom have been on the podcast.
So everybody can go back and listen to those episodes.
(48:04):
And Jill is the leader at the helm of our mastermind group
But that's so crucial because I don't think too many people who are health whatever we are, health practitioners, we're not inherent business people.
We have to become business people.
We have to figure out how to
spin all the wrenches of a business and market ourselves and put ourselves out there in a way that works but also feels genuine, which is kind of what you described.
(48:31):
You're not a self-promotional person just by character.
But you still have to promote somehow, otherwise the business doesn't exist.
So this again is skill development, this personal development.
It's not unlike trying to help somebody lose weight.
We have to learn how to
Be the kind of person who puts ourselves out there in a way that feels good.
(48:53):
And the other important thing for me, Erin, was recognizing
what kind of business I wanted.
So to your point, as a solopreneur, you know, you haven't you haven't hired anyone.
Like I've kept it really small because I think I realized quite early on that
Management's not a skill set that I want to develop for me.
Like, I don't want other coaches.
(49:14):
I don't want to have that element of my busin
And what's important to me is lifestyle.
Like I want to enjoy my days.
I want to have you know, I want to make enough money so I can travel and do the
the events that I love doing with my hubster and to allow him to work a little bit less in his job as a nurse practitioner so we can, you know, hang together and, you know, like that, that's the kind of business I want.
(49:41):
For me, I don't have to be a gazillionaire to get that.
And I don't have to then also have this huge sort of empire.
Like, if it can be me.
Cam, who does my ITs, my integrator, my sister does my little admin bits, you know, and Hubster does the podcast podcast edits, then that's great as well.
So recognize what type of person you are and what and what kind of skills you want to develop or
(50:05):
You know, where you really shine because you could end up in the situation where you're trying to hire all these coaches because you think that's what it is
to be successful, but success looks different for different people.
Was there anything that you did that was a bad decision that you backpedaled on business wise?
(50:25):
Oh well, also so yeah, I reme I remember like I I suggested to someone that we
it came up, I don't even know if it was me suggesting, that we would collaborate on something like in a business sense, and we were in the throes of sort of figuring out what that was.
And then I realized I could never work with this person as a collaborator because I would like I just didn't want to be in that management space.
(50:51):
And I recognized that that's actually what would have to happen because
They didn't really have any skills around that.
And I'm like, you know what?
That's just not where I'm at.
And it was so I didn't go down the road, but I so I was able to catch myself
And then just sort of yeah, like just draw a line in the sand around it.
Yeah, I mean, it's just it's sort of know thyself, right?
(51:12):
I was talking to somebody on this podcast.
We were talking about
Social media marketing, whatever we're talking about social media stuff, because this person had a humongous following, and I was like, Man, it's amazing to have watched you grow, and it's so cool.
And he said, Oh, I've got this really great YouTube strategist, I'll totally hook you guys up.
And I said, No, that's okay.
He said, I don't have any interest in becoming a YouTuber.
I have a YouTube channel.
It's fine.
(51:33):
I like it as a repository of videos, but I have no interest in optimizing my YouTube.
But thank you very much, sir.
Have a nice day.
So it's sort of like.
I think a lot of, and by the way, this podcast is not just for new coaches, it's for new and established coaches in all kinds of walks of life.
But as we go down the garden path of building and growing our business and sustaining a business, like I've been at it for 15 years now.
(51:55):
Like you, you are going to get to know yourself so well that you will be able to make these decisions in the moment.
Like, this is for me, this is not for me.
There's a million things you could do, but you're not going to do them all.
Yeah.
For me, and just like for you, I don't really want to have a ton of staff because that looks like just such a headache to me.
Yeah.
I just feel like it's just, nope, that's not for me.
(52:17):
That's for somebody else.
Yeah.
That's okay.
And actually interesting though, because I know where we like so I the other person that I have as a consultant is someone who runs my Facebook ads
And you're a staunch ad person, you do yourself.
And for me, I'm like, no way, I just cannot, I do not have the skill set, and it would just cause me too much anxiety.
I'm like, this is just a cost of doing business.
And I think that's the other thing as well (52:39):
at some point,
it doesn't matter what it is, but you have to figure out what is the cost of doing business for you that's allowing you to run your business the way that you want it to be run.
And for me, it is putting the outlay of having a Facebook ads manager.
And for someone else, it might be something else.
(52:59):
But at some point, you do have to invest in areas in your business where you might not have thought you needed to.
That's another thing.
Like the coach thing for us.
Yeah.
Well, actually, it reminds me of when you're doing like projects around your house, for example.
So for example, next to my office here is a spare bathroom and a couple of winters ago, the pipes burst and the whole bathroom was destroyed and it's a big thing.
(53:23):
So we were going to do it ourselves, rebuild this bathroom.
And I was like, you know what?
No.
We're going to pay somebody else to do this because time is money, but frustration is also money.
And so, like, the frustration of managing people, the frustration of managing your ads, the frustration of, you know, doing
Your own social post, whatever the thing is.
If you really
(53:45):
Don't like doing it, somebody else might have to do it for you.
And that is a cost of doing business, and it's probably really worth it.
But that's just a question of knowing yourself and what.
And sometimes it just takes a bit of trial and err
Yeah, a hundred per cent agree because I also think about it from a like a cl like
Other chores sort of perspective, like, yeah, I could do this these three things and spend hours in my house doing these things, but if I can pay someone else to do that, then that's actually going to free up my time.
(54:15):
to put my energy into an area which is actually where a lot of my skills lie, rather than like wasting time doing all these other things, which someone else is way better at.
That's right.
Yep.
Very cool.
You have a podcast.
I'm just curious because like the long form content, podcast YouTube blogs, they're kind of like
There's still a market for this, even though we feel like we live in the short content realm.
(54:38):
How has the podcast been for you?
Do you find it's been a good business-building tool?
Or how do you frame your podcast?
Well, Erin, I love it because it allows me to connect with individuals.
It's a really selfish endeavor, isn't it?
When you're like, oh, this researcher did this amazing
(54:59):
Study and it has this whole body of like work, and I really want to chat to them about it.
I'd love to really pick their brain.
Having a podcast allows you to do that, it's like some sort of legitimacy.
I feel like it was easier a few years ago to get guests.
Maybe more people seem to be saying no now than what they used to.
But it gives me another platform with which people hear my voice.
(55:23):
And people really like it.
I love conversation and I love like picking people's brains about certain topics.
It's a little bit like
Professional development myself because I have to learn a little bit about a topic.
Albeit, you do that a lot less now with the lights of AI.
It's actually far easier to prepare for a podcast than it ever has been.
And and then I yeah, I just it has all elements which I which I really love, like connecting with someone and and chatting.
(55:50):
So I think it's a really good business tool.
And I feel like Jill talks about this a lot too, because you have a podcast and then you've got the transcript of a podcast that you could then turn into a blog if you wanted.
You could turn it into an email that you send out to your list.
You can put the podcast up on YouTube, even if, like I do, it's just got my Mikipedia logo.
(56:13):
So, you know, it doesn't even have like the video, and it's
there are just more opportunities for people to learn from you.
And as an educator, I feel like it adds value.
So I love it.
Yeah, I think it's really cool too.
I was chatting with somebody else about this.
It's feel it feels to me like a pretty low stakes bit of effort that
(56:35):
Has a pretty solid payoff if it's something that somebody wants to do.
There's a little bit of technology required, but not a ton, and
One thing I like about hosting my podcast is it helps me sharpen the sword on my message and what I stand for.
Yeah.
I just think we're always I think it's always important for us to be super, super clear on our message.
(56:59):
And any time we can be saying it
rep repetitively.
It really hones in.
And I would say I many of the people I get on the phone who apply to be in my weight loss program have binged my whole podcast and they already know
Basically, what the program entails, because I've talked about it ad nauseum, which is great.
Yeah.
It helps.
It is really great.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
(57:19):
And in addition to the long interviews I do weekly, I also like you do solo episodes too, because
that for all the reasons that you just described, it gives me an opportunity to learn about a topic.
I get to share my views in an uncontested way
And not that I don't want it to be contested and I don't want the discussion, but it allows me to at least upfront say exactly what I think, and then people can
(57:45):
absorb it and interpret it, then ask questions about it and disagree and it's okay to disagree, you know, like and I think that's but it at least does allow me to do that
I think that's a good point.
That's a really nice point, is that we all do have our perspective, our point of view.
Yeah.
Like strongly held convictions, I would hope
(58:06):
And it's okay to say those.
It's okay to say, here's what I think.
Yeah.
I think that there's something about maybe all the infighting and arguing that happens on the internet now.
People are a little scared.
I know this from new, I know new health coaches.
are scared to say anything online because somebody's going to debunk them.
I don't think they will.
You're allowed to have a strongly held conviction about something
(58:27):
And it probably would be really worthwhile to put that out there somewhere so people really, really know what you do and don't stand for, which is just going to help.
I agree because we've had this conversation in our group before about going viral and not going viral.
Like
Like, what's the point in going viral if all you're doing is attracting people who actually do not know your message, don't really align with your views?
(58:51):
And you know, so it's so you might as well put them out there and attract the right people because they're the people who you want to attract to your business.
That's right.
Yeah.
Goodness gracious.
So people will want to follow you, see where you're up to.
Where can they do that?
Yeah, amazing.
Thank you, Erin.
Instagram is my favorite platform, I think.
(59:12):
at Mikki Willodin, and I share a lot.
It's it's my professional page, but it's my personal page as well.
So it is my page.
I do with it what I do.
I do a lot of teaching, but I also share a lot of what I do personally.
You're not going to love all of it, so don't expect to
My podcast is Mikapedia.
And it to your point, it talks about health, wellness, fitness, anything that I'm interested in.
(59:36):
Interview experts as well, which is really great.
And my website is mikkiwilliden.
com.
And you can scroll right to the bottom and sign up for my email, which comes out weekly.
whatever's on my mind that week, I'm probably going to want to talk about.
And it's either some sort of really well researched, reviewed, and referenced science piece, or it's my thoughts on
(01:00:01):
I don't know, Doritos.
You know, it's it it's it just doesn't matter, but it's just whatever's on my mind I'm gonna share.
Amazing.
I'm gonna sign up for sure
Amazing, Erin.
Lovely.
Okay, Mikki.
Well, enjoy the rest of your day.
Thank you so much for sharing all of your amazing wisdom with our audience here, and always great to connect with you.
I loved it, Erin.
Thank you so much for inviting me on.
(01:00:22):
This podcast was brought to you by Primal Health Coach Institute.
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com forward slash call.
Or if you're already a successful health coach, practitioner, influencer, or thought leader with a thriving business and an interesting story, we'd love to hear from you
Connect with us at hello at primalhealthcoach.
(01:00:44):
com and let us know why we need to interview you for Health Coach Radio.
Thanks for listening.
My guest today is Dr.
Mikki Williden.
She's a New Zealand-based registered nutritionist with a PhD in human nutrition, has over 20 years experience specializing in metabolic health, fat loss, and performance nutrition.
She has a strong focus on helping women over 35 achieve lasting fat loss results.
And she's also an endurance athlete, a podcast host, and the co-author of the 40 over 40 cookbook series.
(00:23):
Mikki is passionate about bridging science and real world strategies to empower women and wellness professionals alike.
And I think you, a wellness professional,
We'll love this conversation with my good friend Mikki Williden.
Hi, I'm Erin Power.
I'm a health coach, a health coaching educator, and mentor, and your host of Health Coach Radio.
(00:44):
This podcast delves into the art, science, and business of health coaching.
Whether you're aspiring to land a coaching dream job or to embark on your own entrepreneurial adventure, we cover it all.
Our mission is to help you grow your career, elevate your income, change the lives of the clients who need your help, and leave a lasting mark in this rapidly growing field.
(01:05):
It's time for health coaches to make an impact.
It's time for Health Coach Radio.
Hey, Mikki.
Hey, Erin.
You and I are business buddies.
We are in a mastermind group together, and it's been fun to hang with you, even though you're all over on the other side of the world.
Mikki's in New Zealand and shows up for every one of our live events.
(01:29):
Like, damn.
I know.
And well, it actually does give me an excuse to go somewhere else other than New Zealand.
So that's what I love about it.
And it's just being in the room, you know, like there's so like.
You know, this is, you were just, you were chatting to me about this podcast before we kicked off, and you said it was an industry podcast.
And the ability for people of us, people like us in our industry to
(01:53):
be in the same room, to connect, but share ideas and experiences and just you know, the day to day is so valuable.
Yeah.
I just did, I recorded a solo episode for Health Coach Radio.
I don't think it's come out yet, but it, or maybe it has, I don't know.
Anyway, it's sort of this tongue-in-cheek
In defense of the solopreneur health coach, because I am still solopreneuring it after 15 years.
(02:18):
I still haven't hired anybody.
And I get my wrists slapped about this all the time.
But one of the tips I gave in that episode was (02:23):
if you're going to do this, if you're going to grind this out by yourself, you got to have business buddies.
You've got to have colleagues, somebody to talk to who does what you do.
So that's why we were saying beforehand why we keep reinvesting in the mastermind group is because we get we have buddies to talk to that do what we do
Yeah, 100% because my husband teases me.
(02:46):
He comes home.
He's like, oh, so have you been on Facebook all day then?
And it's like, well
Instagram, but yes, sort of.
Because it's like peop people have this idea of what like being in business actually is when you're not, you know, like just tied to an office or tied to a salary, uh, quite different.
Yes.
So my neighbor's like, Aaron's little Instagram business.
(03:07):
Like, okay, okay.
You don't know that's fine.
You don't know what I do.
I don't know what you do.
Yeah, yeah.
It's so good.
Yeah.
So, I want to start with that question (03:13):
like, who are you and what do you do?
Fill us in on your origin.
Yeah, awesome, Erin.
So, I am a registered nutritionist here in New Zealand.
I'm more I've got a research background, so and I'm super curious and super interested in a whole host of areas related to health and fitness and nutrition.
(03:35):
So
I have a physical education degree and a science degree in nutrition.
So I went through the traditional, I guess, route for studying.
And then did my master's
looking at obesity.
And then whilst I was working in academia, I completed my PhD in a more public health setting.
And then I taught for a number of years, but all the while kept up clinical experience.
(04:00):
So I've been a clinician for about 23 years or similar at this point
Because I really love because it's one thing to sort of learn something through research and reading science, but as you know, it's quite different when you're trying to apply it to the real world situation.
So I have both that sort of
Research pathway and that clinical experience.
(04:21):
Outside of that, though, I'm a runner, I'm a stepmum, I have a husband who I love immensely.
And when we
And I'm here in New Zealand and I love being outdoors.
I love coffee, beer, wine, food.
And reading.
There you go
Oh, gorgeous.
I actually don't know that I knew that you had this background in obesity is it research that you Yeah.
(04:48):
Yeah, it was.
So I did my Master's in childhood obesity, and it was much more from an environmental perspective.
So looking at these environmental factors for it.
And this was back in
I think started in 99, I think.
And this was before those environmental influences were so knowing.
You know, it was all much more about
personal responsibility, I guess.
(05:10):
And one of something that really stuck with me, Erin, actually, was that we interviewed parents about their children and whether or not they were overweight.
And about one third of the parents said, yes, my child is overweight.
But actually, objectively speaking, sort of I think closer to eighty percent of those children were in fact overweight, which
(05:34):
At the time, in 1999, like last century, you know, there was just this, it was beginning, it was just that lack of awareness of what normal weight was.
And that really just
Stuck with me, I think, because of how we've normalized so many things in society, even now, related to health, related to diet, nutrition, exercise.
(05:56):
But I think I got my first taste of what that sort of looked like.
Yeah.
But of a tangent.
Oh my gosh.
How dare you invoke last century?
Oh my goodness.
Like you immediately feel ancient.
Okay, so
That's interesting.
That's really cool.
So childhood obesity.
But now you work in the fat loss, body, recomposition space to this day.
(06:16):
So take us through how you what are you doing these days?
What's your job?
Yes.
So I run fat loss programs.
So I've got my I guess my signature program is a fat loss method that utilizes protein sparing modified fast as the fat loss tool.
but I couch it in a structured plan, which teaches people how to eat as a forever approach, if you like.
(06:44):
So it's
All of the same things that I'm sure you talk about with your clients, and anyone listening would talk about with their clients all of the time.
It's protein-forward, it's fiber, it's an appropriate carbohydrate load.
Utilizing strategies that help people feel satisfied, you know, volume, texture, real foods.
(07:05):
And it is a structured meal plan.
And I know that in our industry, there's a lot of contention about what, you know, what's best practice.
Like, surely giving someone a meal plan, you know, isn't that just not teaching them anything?
But I feel like it gives them guardrails and guidelines initially.
And because of, I think, my teaching background, I basically probably like you, Erin, I just spend a lot of time educating people.
(07:29):
Like the whole sort of eight week process
I never sell it as an eight-week program.
It's I sell it as a kickstart to their sort of forever approach.
Because there's no you know, there's no two ways around it.
Healthy food is healthy food.
Like you it like if you care about what you eat, this is actually how you should eat.
Like, I mean, yes, it looks different.
(07:50):
Everyone's plate can look different.
But I mean, let's be real.
Like, I mean, there's no other way to sort of do it.
So I sort of spend a lot of my time educating in that eight-week
plan, I suppose.
Outside of that, I see, you know, have a few hours a week where I work individually with people.
I do webinars, seminars.
(08:12):
I still do a little bit sort of guest lecturing in different places.
I have a podcast.
I sort of do all the things, and I do love hanging out on social, and I love giving a lot of value when I'm doing it.
So, yeah, those are the things.
Okay, that's a lot we can unpack because.
Well, first of all, it's interesting you brought up meal plans because I was having a conversation with another practitioner and we were talking about meal plans, and it is a very polarizing topic.
(08:39):
Some practitioners love them.
Some
don't love them.
But the thing is, it doesn't matter necessarily it doesn't matter necessarily what we love, although I will say it does it does matter, folks listening.
If you don't love meal plans, then figure out a way not to do them.
And if you do love meal plans, the good news is there's a way to factor them in.
I think now I you probably know this about me, maybe you don't, but I'm kind of anti-meal plan because I just don't want to make one again.
(09:04):
I just hated making it when I was in nutritionist school and I don't want to.
I have clients who want them.
So at the end of the day, some health consumers, many, find it to be a very useful tool.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I guess and I understand that.
And I feel like giving a meal plan means it takes a lot of that initial decision fatigue out of it for people.
(09:29):
And I think and I appreciate
Absolutely, why you hate them, but I just think people need structure and they need that, they need almost someone to take that burden from them, and they that's a really good starting point, it's never the end, and I think this is
It's how you use this tool.
I think that's the thing.
Whereas sometimes, like, and this is a bit of a beef I have with the industry, is that anyone can do a weekend course and be a macro coach.
(09:56):
And be wildly successful doing that and have absolutely no idea but what's in food and what food actually looks like and
and they don't need that knowledge to to give you macros.
And so and then they expect people to understand macros.
People don't eat macros, they eat food.
So, you know, in my language on that one, that's for sure.
(10:18):
With all respect to the macro, like again, macros is another thing where you either love it or you don't as a practitioner.
And
There's a health consumer who wants to track macros, and there's health consumers that don't want to.
So it's good.
Like a rising tide lifts all boats.
We need all kinds of things here.
But I like what you said, which is a meal plan is a really good
(10:41):
Sort of out the gate learning tool.
Yeah.
Because it's a visual.
You know, here's what a day of eating looks like.
Try your best to align to this.
And then I presume, I'd love to know.
We should talk about it.
How do you work with clients?
Like, do they have coaching opportunities with you where they can come back and say, the meal plan's working about 80%, here's where I'm kind of struggling, and then is there adjustments made?
(11:05):
So in the Eight Week Mondays Matter program, how do you work with people?
Coach in there.
Yeah, great question.
So it's so we've got
Learning opportunities through Zoom calls that we do fortnightly.
And also, I've got a tier of the plan whereby we also have office hours weekly.
(11:25):
To sort of have one-on-one, sort of 20-minute slots where they can talk individually.
But actually, a lot of the learning happens in the Facebook p
And so in if you're running a plan like this, like thankfully, I love Facebook, so it's I find it really an easy way for me to connect with people.
And whilst I give a meal plan, I also sort of supply it all comes along in a workbook that has the guidelines and has the philosophy or behind
(11:55):
The meals essentially.
And so all the while I'm, you know, telling you can swap this protein for this protein.
And this is why we've got these vegetables in, and absolutely, you can tweak it.
So
So it sort of provides that structure, but there's also a lot of flexibility.
And actually, to your point, just you were saying about there are people who love macros and people who hate macros
(12:16):
I also think there are people who think they love macros and then they find out what macros actually entails and like, actually, I don't like that shit.
I don't like that.
We don't love macros.
Give me something else
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, so in Monday's Matter, this is great.
I love that you explained sort of the moving parts of Monday's Matter because to me, what you've described is a structure.
(12:40):
That I contemplate to be the gold standard, actually.
So you've got a curriculum.
They are delivered sort of the teaching in a book, a workbook kind of thing.
There's group calls every two weeks.
There's office hours for one-on-one if they need it.
And then there's the community piece in Faceb
In the Facebook group, whatever community.
(13:01):
So I think there's a curriculum, the coaching, the community, the three C's, right?
I honestly believe that to be
what every good coaching program needs to have factored in.
I just wanted to repeat, reflect that back to you because I think that is a really nice model
Yeah, nice, nice.
And you know what?
Like I was super lucky to have learned that model from some colleagues of mine when I they asked me to collaborate on something with them.
(13:26):
And I'm like
Because I'd never quite figured out that the bit that was missing for me was the community piece actually.
Because I was a natural teacher and I knew how to give people the information
But I didn't realize the power of community, and probably COVID actually was when all this sort of came together for me.
(13:47):
I'm forever like grateful for the opportunity to learn from them that actually that was the bit that I was missing, and that in fact when my business took off
You know, when I actually sort of finally dialed that in and went, oh, this is actually what people want.
Because ultimately, actually, they do.
Particularly someone like me.
And I don't know if you're the same, Erin, but I really struggle to hold back with information.
(14:11):
Like, I just want to give people everything.
And I wanted, you know, because I feel like this is stuff they all should know.
And.
And and when you're overwhelmed with information, it's and it's unfamiliar, then having other people in the same boat is just it almost takes that overwhelm a little bit.
You're like, Oh, cool, I'm not the only person who's
(14:32):
Little bit flailing here, and it's not so bad, and it's not like I give so much that everyone's confused, but there will always be people who are like, Whoa, this is a lot.
So, having that community there to sort of talk through it is just so helpful.
Yeah, I've learned that too.
I've only in the last couple of years.
myself included a community piece to my coaching program.
(14:53):
I really dragged my heels, first of all, on moving from one-on-one.
to group, but eventually you have to.
You just have to because you can't scale one on one.
It just it's it ceilings out basically.
Yeah.
And then and then only in the last couple of years have I really developed a community around it.
And what I think
to your point is really interesting.
Is like, I'm teaching these basic anchor actions, the methodology of the program, but each individual is interpreting it differently, interpreting it and applying it differently.
(15:21):
And so if Sally comes into the group chat and says, hey, I'm really struggling to understand the funnel or some proprietary little piece of my thing
Well, I can answer Sally, but I'm just going to say the same thing that she's already heard me say a hundred times.
Maybe Jane comes in and gives her a different interpretation of it that Sally could understand.
And it's incredible.
It's incredible to have.
(15:43):
That different voice, I think to your point, like there's a lot of overwhelm for the health consumer.
And the community piece is interesting because it's sort of like we're all figuring this out together.
Yeah, I completely agree in context of our lives.
Yeah, and we learn so much as practitioners from that community as well.
(16:03):
to your point about that different interpretation, I'm not sure what you listen to in terms of podcasts and stuff, Erin.
I know a bit because obviously we've chatted over the years, but
I find I listen to the same people on different podcasts saying the same things, but they're saying it slightly differently.
And that actually just allows me to think differently about something
That then allows me to explain it in a different way as well.
(16:26):
You know, like there is real value in repetition.
And particularly in this space, and I think if people are listening to this, not.
as practitioners, but even just to sort of learn stuff themselves.
Like it takes time to learn skills around food.
And this is
what I don't think the general consumer actually understands much is that these are skills that you have to learn.
(16:51):
And just because you eat does not mean that you know how to do it
So don't expect it to be easy.
And I'm actually really big on this (16:58):
just being straight up front.
This is hard work, and it's hard work you have to do.
And actually, you should relish the opportunity to do this.
Like, it is actually like, this is this is, you know, it's a privilege
I think to be in a position to actually think about your diet and think about it in a way that helps optimize your health.
(17:19):
And the more that you get in and you do those reps and you learn those skills, the easier it comes.
Don't try and shy away from it.
I get.
a little bit ragey maybe about it.
I don't know.
Oh, this is a hell yes for me because so so you and I are both kind of in the in the fat loss space, but not everybody listening to this is in the fat loss space.
You might be inside the performance space or
(17:40):
postnatal or whatever the the thing is.
There's a million million niches we can go into.
But I always frame fat loss, for example, as skill development
It's not telling me what to do how.
It's not unlike learning to play an instrument, which requires an element of learning, an element of practice, an element of screwing up.
(18:02):
And getting better, just like any other skill we would develop.
But for some reason, like the weight loss industry specifically has really sort of almost lobotomized people from believing that they have what it takes to learn how to eat.
To support their health or weight loss goals.
So there's a this is really crucial for coaches listening because I don't want health coaches to
(18:25):
Embody the clipboard wielding, do this, eat this.
Here's how much.
Like, to a certain extent, maybe that's what the beef is with macro coaching.
It's like it's kind of this arbitrary math.
It's not necessarily
empowering somebody to embody skill development, perhaps.
And I don't want to paint every macro coach with that same brush.
But one of the opportunities we all have as health coaches is to
(18:49):
And I keep using the word empower to reempower the health consumer to understand their body and how the choices they make impact their outcom
Yeah, I 100%.
And so some of the messaging in nutrition I really disagree with right now, like the idea that there are no bad foods
I don't agree with that.
I don't think that it means that you can't eat them, but I mean, let's be clear, there are good and bad foods.
(19:14):
You know, there are foods that align with.
Health choices that you want to make, and there are foods that don't align with those health choices.
It doesn't mean it's not a reflection on you as a person or your character.
But I mean, there are good and bad foods.
Like, why are we not allowed to say that in nutrition anymore?
Yeah, I know.
It's funny.
(19:34):
So I just recorded a solo episode from my own podcast, and I was talking about how I'm sure you've heard this before, people will say,
I binged on the Doritos, but I think I just needed the crunch.
So I wanted to address this idea of needing crunch.
Like, there's no crunch in sufficiency.
You're not going to run deficient on crunch.
(19:55):
Like, that doesn't exist.
You don't need crunch.
You just really like Doritos.
Because they're hyper-palatable, uber-processed foods that are bingible.
And you ate too many of them, and that is objectively not a good health behavior.
And you didn't need a nutritionist to tell you that.
You already knew that.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, it's like.
Why aren't we allowed to say, hey, maybe don't binge on Doritos and you'll find this weight loss thing a lot easier?
(20:19):
I think you're right.
There's a lot of narrative that we're it's kind of weird
It is.
And also, to your like, it almost removes that agency.
Like, they had no real control on it.
I just needed this crunch.
Like, that is the thing that I needed to
to to like solve, if you like.
But it's no, you made the decision.
It is actually on you, and you're just reinforcing the narrative of
(20:42):
of the craving in that instance, and you're not actually doing yourself any good.
Like so let's be real.
Like it and that I think it should be empowering.
Yet a lot of the times if you use language like that and you talk like that and if people listen to your podcast,
The defensiveness that it sort of rises in someone means that actually, you know, like that's the pushback that you get.
(21:03):
Like, that's just that'
you know, I don't know.
Well, I think a lot of like specifically newer coaches or folks breaking into the industry would shy away from saying anything that might hurt someone's feelings, for example.
Yeah.
You and I have been at it for a little while where
I don't feel that I'm not nervous to say something that might hurt somebody's feelings.
If it hurts their feelings and they self-select out of my audience, cool.
(21:26):
Bye.
Yeah.
But if it lands enough
That they want to stick around and hear more.
Like, ultimately, what I'm getting at is health coaches hate marketing themselves, hate putting themselves out there, hate not hate, but are uncomfortable messaging anything.
But it's just this.
It's just.
It's just what do you stand for?
What do you stand for?
(21:46):
And you can stand for things that are polarizing.
And quite frankly, if you do.
It's going to help really focus your audience.
And then you'll like what you're doing because you're actually standing for something.
Yeah, 100%.
And I think about this when I.
Eat my breakfast, which is like a lot of the times at the moment, I'm big on yogurt bowls.
(22:07):
Oh no, which I know, and I and almost every time I eat one, I'm like
I'm like, well, it's funny actually.
I think of Tina in our business group as well because she's big on fruit right now.
I'm like, Tina will be loving my fruit bowl, my fruit and yogurt bowl.
And I'm like, fuck Erin will be bloody hating on my breakfast right now.
But.
To your point, I just love that you're out there going, What the hell?
(22:30):
A yoga bowl?
Because I'm not disagreeing with you on all of the points that you have for why you hate on the yoga bowls.
It doesn't stop me eating them because I enjoy them.
But I love that you're out there standing up for that because.
And yeah, you're just living that message.
Keto, carnivore, paleo, AIP, SCD, low FODMAP, so many diets.
(22:55):
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(23:19):
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(23:41):
I love whenever the conversation on this podcast sort of sneaks around the edges of messaging, marketing, whatever we're going to call this, because
Maybe that's not even what it is.
It's just your identity as a practitioner in this massive, it's a freaking, was it $41 trillion industry now?
Like, it's.
Enormous.
And so, you know, how will you stand out?
Health coaches really struggle with saying there's so many people, this space is so saturated.
(24:06):
Do you feel that way?
Do you feel like the space is too saturated and you don't stand out?
No, I actually don't.
And someone asked me even maybe a couple of months ago, you know, who is your competition?
And I'm like,
Well, no one, you know, like actually, like, there's no one like me doing this.
Everyone is different.
(24:26):
And I mean, let's face it
There are enough people to go around.
And so it all comes back to messaging, marketing, or protocols, and how you do it and how good you are.
But if you've got all of those things in place, you know, there's definitely enough people to go around.
Yeah.
Well, I'm glad you brought up protocols because that was actually kind of the next thing on my little agenda here.
(24:49):
I actually love talk.
One of my favorite things to talk about.
I don't know, is programming or protocols, or however we're going to frame this.
So, the thing that I want to just, before I ask you the question and kind of kick the conversation over to you, I want to just explain to the listener what I'm getting at here, which is
Every one of us, even if we're in a similar category doing similar things, we all have a little different way of doing it, the way of doing it, the way of eating or the whatever the thing is.
(25:16):
We all have our own little thing.
Some little proprietary-ish spin, and that proprietary spin could be macro-tracking, quite frankly, or whatever it is, right
So inside your protocol inside your protocol, the method that you use is protein sparing modified fasting.
You use that as the kickoff for fat loss.
Which is so fascinating because my only familiarity with protein sparing modified fasting is like a very extreme approach to rapid fat loss.
(25:45):
That's how I know it.
Yeah, yes.
So and so essentially, and that's how I think I discovered it as well, looking at the literature, and it's used in
The obesity research to prepare people for surgery, or actually, interestingly, in a lot of adolescent
Literature as well, like obese, morbidly obese adolescents to help them lose weight.
(26:07):
But of course, clinically speaking, they might be hospitalized
or it might be outpatient, but they are they are following this protein sparing modified fast.
Often it's a liquid diet, and they're given micronutrients as well, continuously for, say,
three to six months.
And so it is this like day by day.
Whereas I use it as as a fasting mimicking approach actually.
(26:30):
So as it it so one to three days of a week, depending on your
I guess your level of weight loss, which you desire, is a way to put that.
You are going to be doing a protein-only day.
Which is between, I mean, I'm not quite as strict as the protocols.
I think it might be eight to 900 calories a day, one to three days of that week.
(26:52):
And outside of those days, you're eating in that way that we described before.
which is still actually objectively quite low calorie.
We add in extra food for all exercise regardless of the day.
So that's just the base plan
But ultimately, if you lower your calories on one to three days of a week to eight or nine hundred calories, you're eliciting a deficit across a week without actually having to track.
(27:16):
So it's a rare person who wouldn't lose weight in that method
And so that's how I utilize the protein sparing fast in the program.
That's cool.
And who who do you work with?
Like, who is this best suited for?
Your program?
Yeah.
So I actually wonder whether the ultimate person for my program is a guy of any age, to be honest.
(27:41):
Like, I mean, men are very good at following instructions.
and they like simplicity of of the approach that I just described.
But ninety percent of my people are women, probably forty plus actually.
who have and and I don't know about you, Erin, but I have I've noticed sort of two avatars, if you like, with women.
So a a woman who's been on a diet forever.
(28:04):
Or feels like she's been on a diet forever.
In her head, she's dieted forever.
Of course, it doesn't always operate like that.
Has always struggled, has tried everything, cannot lose weight.
That's one one woman.
And then the other one is never had to think about diet at all, has always been relatively slim, never really exercised for
for anything other than enjoyment, if they've exercised at all, and then suddenly perimenopause hits and things change for them.
(28:32):
And they're a little bit like left in this
You know, I've never had to think about my food, and now I have to think about it.
But my program actually works for both of them because fundamentally, it doesn't really matter.
I mean, and this is another message which people don't like hearing, but we all want to think that we're sort of unique snowflakes with our own, you know, with something, you know, is this program going to work for me because of and then
(28:59):
four paragraphs of their personal situation, which I'm really empathetic towards, but ultimately it will work, you know, like because these methods actually solve
90% of the problem.
Yeah, well, actually, I'll take that a step further.
I think almost anything would work if you stuck with it long enough.
(29:22):
Yeah, I like that.
I yeah, I agree.
If you stuck with it long enough.
Yeah, that's literally the issue.
So, like, you know, what's interesting is that I've only recently come across that second cohort.
The woman who's like, I never had to worry about this.
This is brand new.
Where did this weight come from?
I never used to run into those women, but I guess this is part of the menopause transition that we're seeing because, as I'm aging, my clients are aging, and here we are.
(29:47):
So there's that.
But the women that I speak to who have been quote unquote dieting forever, you know, they go through their list of things they tried and they tried V-shred and they tried keto and they tried fasting and they tried this and they tried that and they t
And this worked for a little while, and that worked for a little while, but none of it was sustainable.
And for me, it's like, and none of it was sustainable.
Why did you quit
So everything you tried, you quit.
(30:10):
That's not a mark on your character.
It was too quittable.
So, can we create something that is unquittable?
Is what it comes down to, I think.
I agree.
And that's why, you know, I think actually.
Following a diet, this might rile some people up, but it's easy.
If someone gives you a plan, you should.
It's all there, actually.
(30:32):
Same with exercise.
If someone gives you an exercise plan, it is all there for you to follow.
The thing that's missing is the mindset thing, the belief that you can do it.
the fact that it is hard work, that the hard work is worth it.
Yes, it's discipline.
And I think the and I mean, not just I think, we know
That mindset is actually the biggest issue.
(30:52):
It's so thrown around there, it's almost a bit glib now.
But I spend a lot of my coaching in the first few weeks in the Facebook page.
You know, you do daily posts, and in addition to responding to people's
queries, but I sort of move those daily posts from the instructional to being very mindset based.
(31:13):
probably from week three, because ultimately, by week three, you've sort of got some habits, you know, you've got some things in place, and then you actually just have to continue to do it.
And that is all about being up here
Completely agree.
I completely agree.
So let's reflect that back.
So essentially we do have to teach people
some kind of new skill or behavior around food.
(31:35):
Because that is the that is the mechanism by which they're going to achieve some kind of quick win.
And I think
I do think clients want a quick win.
They want to feel, oh, my sugar cravings have diminished or my pants feel a little looser or something tangible.
Agree
And after, to your point, the first couple of weeks, it's like, basically, you know everything you need to know.
(31:57):
Now you've got to just go execute it with some relative consistency for long enough
To get the outcome goal you want.
And then we should talk about how do you maintain this for the rest of your life?
Because if every other thing you tried wasn't sustainable, then that's the problem we have to solve.
So that's the mindset to your point is like becoming the kind of person who executes these food habits in life, but also does it for years, decades of life.
(32:28):
100%.
And two things which I notice with some people.
One is that on day one, they're asking about maintenance.
What happens on week eight?
And I'm like, no, no, no, no.
Can we just
Let's go day by day here.
Like, we do not have to even think about week eight at this point in time.
And the second
(32:48):
thing which I which I notice and I immediately shut down is this idea that this is what we're doing for the next eight weeks.
That's it.
And then we'll go back to our normal.
Like you can't go like, why is it that people think they can go back?
Like
evidence like their own evidence in front of them proves to them that that that's not a successful way to do it.
(33:11):
Still, it's in their head that things can just go back to the way that they were.
Like, no, you can't go back.
And that's the mindset thing.
Yeah.
I wonder.
And also, also, can I just add in?
people forget how much they change and how transformational the processes from that sort of psychological element and their tastes change too.
(33:34):
Right now, they might not like blueberries and broccoli.
But by week eight, they're probably going to love them.
And then the thing they think they love, they no longer get that same enjoyment from just, yeah, but people forget and/or know that.
So you sort of got to trust that too.
Yeah, it's so interesting because you and I have been doing this for a while, and I've seen clients have that switch of the flip.
(33:59):
I know that switch is going to flip, where
They believe they can do it.
And it's just a matter of time before it happens.
But in the early stages, I wonder if this is something that the industry
Really screwed up for people, which is, for example, my program is six months long, but it used to be eight weeks long, similar to yours.
Yeah.
(34:19):
And it was called Eight Weeks to Effortless.
Eight weeks was in the name.
And if it list was as well.
If it list was in the name, yes.
But the thing is, like
Every maybe I'm just thinking out loud.
Who knows?
But every weight loss program has some kind of time frame because my current one's a six-month metabolic mentorship.
(34:40):
Six months is in the name.
So it's like, oh, this is the amount of time I need to devote to this.
Yes.
But the thing is, if we said, if we gave it some other name, like your forever fat loss plan, they're like, forever?
Yeah.
Really?
Forever.
Like, there's a complete lack.
It's so lost in translation.
(35:00):
For women, especially, I think, who have been really embroiled in the diet programming, it's like, I've got to do this for a period of time to get the outcome.
And we women just maybe I'm generalizing aren't programmed to contemplate that this would be the forever intervention.
But actually, we were talking before we recorded about Dr.
Spencer Nadelski, who came on your podcast.
I think it was him that shared this because he's an obesity
(35:23):
Medicine guy.
And this is years ago, and I quote, I paraphrase him to this day.
He said
In order to maintain weight loss, you must maintain the intervention that got you the weight loss.
So if it's keto, you got to maintain keto.
If it's Ozempic, you got to maintain Ozempic.
Yeah.
(35:43):
Like maintenance is actually built into the weight loss conversation.
Yeah.
And we don't spend enough time talking about how hard the diet is after the diet.
You know, like, and I think this is the real issue.
Something else which we haven't talked about in the program that I have, and which is probably a bit OTT, but whatever, it's how I've set it up, is that we have a diet break every fortn
(36:07):
So every fortnight for three days, I just lift calories slightly.
So we add in more carbohydrate
We get a metabolic reset meal, which is other people would say it's a treat meal or a cheap meal, but I hate that terminology.
So, you know, I just
Framed it something else, it's the same thing.
But it gives people an opportunity to practice eating how they might eat at maintenance because
(36:32):
Most people are either on a diet or so far off a diet, it's not even funny.
And I know that it I one of the best amounts of feedback, one of the best feedback I got
From about the diet break strategy, someone said, My head was good, but still a little bit too structured.
And like, yep, that's the problem.
(36:55):
That's your problem actually, because normal maintenance eating
is still structured.
Like it's not free for all.
These are the skills that you don't have that you have to learn.
And so it's an eight week program.
And in real life, if I was working with an individual, I wouldn't put a diet break in every two weeks at all.
But it just gives them that opportunity because people don't have confidence there either, Erin.
(37:18):
You know, people are actually really great at losing weight.
We can lose weight.
They just take something out.
I just stop eating.
You know, actually, when we're in it, we're very good at it
But we have no idea how to then maintain that.
And we've got to build confidence.
And so I want them to do it in this way that they
That they can build that confidence, but I'm also there to sort of helping to troubleshoot and guide them.
(37:40):
And of course, you're going to screw it up.
You're going to overeat.
I mean, but.
That will happen anyway.
That's going to happen anyway.
Yeah.
No, I love that.
I think that's really clever.
And so I just want to get into the weeds on that a little bit.
So you.
So the diet break is kind of like a slight calorie cycle, carb cycle moment.
So there's a little metabolic reset, but you still put some parameters around it.
(38:01):
What are the what sort of are the parameters?
So, so one of the main ones is we don't change the structure of the eating.
Like, I'm not a person who loves snacks, and I don't think
You necessarily are either.
I think snacks are fine if you're macro tracking because you can account for it.
But so I'm like, we keep this the structure of the meals are the same.
You're still having three meals a day.
(38:22):
But we're adding in a carbohydrate serve to each of the meal because I'm I naturally am lower carb.
Like I'm that's just how I roll in my practice and just personally.
So we're adding in some fruit.
We might be adding in some sourdough bread.
We're adding in some rice.
We're adding in, you know, potato or sweet potato
But then on top of that, we're also having that metabolic reset meal where it actually doesn't matter what you eat at all, but it is how you eat it.
(38:50):
It's about
Really enjoying it, making sure you're not feeling overful when you leave, you know, when you finish the meal, and you're not just trying to scoff
So much in because it's the last time you're ever going to have that food.
You know, all of those sort of mentality that comes up when you eat off plan
And then also I'm like, you know, on another night, we'll have like a glass of wine or a beer or we'll have some chocolate.
(39:13):
So because actually all of these things
should ideally you should be able to include in your forever approach, but often it's the way that we feel about the foods, the way that we eat the foods
And if I had, for example, said, oh, just eat whatever you like on a Saturday as the diet break strategy, there will just like it would be chaotic.
(39:37):
It would be chaos.
They would just be snacking and eating and feeling full, but getting in those three biscuits because I'm not allowed them again until next Saturday, like all of that awful diet mentality that we really, you know, like ideally would get rid of.
Yeah, yeah.
No, that's cool because it helps them to experience what it can feel like to have enough of something to scratch the itch or feel the joy of food, which I think there is
(40:04):
There has to be joy in food, but it but when we go like if we go restrict binge, that's neither of those feels good.
It doesn't feel good, but there is a feel good in the gray area in between those two extremes.
And it's like when women and I always say women, but when people are dieting or chronically dieting, they've just never spent any time in this very kind of
(40:25):
Gray moderate zone where it's like you're enjoying food, you're having what you want, just you're not overdoing it.
Yeah, and that's exactly it because
You must experience this in your clientele as well.
Is that people just afraid to fill their plates with food?
You know, like just in normal life.
And I know actually you talk about this a lot, and I talk about this a lot as well.
(40:48):
is that people don't grasp the concept that you can have this completely big full meal and it is and it's not overdoing it.
Like you don't have to eat like a little bird.
And that is not an appropriate amount of food, even if you're dieting, you know.
Like, I really like, if you see my meals, if you follow me on Instagram, you see how I eat, how others eat.
(41:10):
They are full meals, but they're just really leaning on a lot of those sort of strategies that allow you to eat full meals and feel satisfied
without starving yourself.
And I think people, when they are quote unquote, being good, they're just under eating, which then leads to that binge.
I know.
No, it's so true.
And I was thinking about I had a client one time who got to the nearly the end of the program, and she had been perfect the whole time.
(41:39):
And then she said something on one of the coaching calls.
She said, It's amazing.
I can't believe how compliant I've been.
This has been so great and I've seen great results.
She said, you know, the one thing is my husband and I used to go for Mexican food every Wednesday night.
We haven't done that in the last four months.
And I was like,
Okay.
This is your homework.
You must mandatory go for Mexican food on Wednesday.
(42:00):
We have to figure out Mexican food.
Like, what do you mean you abandoned this whole ritual that you and your husband have?
So, you could behave yourself on the diet.
Well, you're definitely going for Mexican food.
Let's just do that together and just like hit that, you know, that's the part of the skill development is going for Mexican food and figuring it out.
100%, I agree.
And one other point which and this will ruffle feathers as well maybe, depending on philosophy, but for some people, there will be foods that
(42:27):
When they eat them, they can't stop.
Like, you just cannot moderate them.
Like, I don't know why we don't acknowledge that more.
Like, we do in other areas, you know, in other areas, but for whatever reason, in food, we should.
I think it's such a myth that everyone should be able to enjoy food in moderation.
Because if you can't, then suddenly you feel like you're the failure.
(42:49):
That really sort of grinds my gears
So do they have in New Zealand, do you have mini eggs?
Chocolate eggs?
They're little chocolate eggs that come out at Easter time.
It's like a little ball of chocolate with a candy coating.
Yeah, yeah, delicious.
Okay, that's just a perfect example of an unmoderatable food.
I don't know what they put in those things, but every you know, every Easter time.
(43:14):
They put the kilogram bags out in the grocery store, and my clients will come in and say, Well, I bought the kilogram bag of mini eggs just to have a little treat.
And wouldn't you know, I ate the whole bag?
It's like, Yeah.
That's mini eggs.
That's how they work.
Don't buy those.
No.
And, you know, and so.
I think acknowledging that and recognizing which of the foods you love, that you just know, look, if I open that bag of Doritos, I'm going to finish it.
(43:40):
So I have to be all right with that.
And that's the thing.
That's the, you know, be all right with the consequences.
But I feel like we do our clients a disservice if we're like, well, you should be able to enjoy just a handful.
Like, we'll get you there.
You know what?
You can try your best, but on some things, you may not be able to.
Being really upfront about things like that with your clients, I think, is important.
(44:01):
Yeah, we have to.
We have to.
They're coming for a transformation.
They're coming for skill development.
I don't think I just don't think coddling, if that's not the right word, but I don't think coddling or you know I was just chatting with one of our peers, Bonnie, who's a registered dietitian, and that was one of her perspectives too, is this idea that all foods fit.
No.
They don't.
(44:22):
Quite frankly.
Totally.
I if you wouldn't mind, Mikki, yeah, would you wouldn't mind just like kind of driving the conversation a bit around your business?
Because a lot of our
Coaches listening are trying to start businesses or grow businesses.
Yeah.
So take me through (44:37):
like
How long have you been doing I mean, how long have you been doing this?
And really, take I guess this is a humongous open-ended question, but I just want to get a sense of
like you've got a successful business, a successful practice.
Was it successful right out the gate?
Or what kind of mistakes or struggles did you learn?
What things have you learned the hard way that maybe we can
(44:59):
front load for folks listening so they don't maybe make those same mistakes?
Yeah, great question, Erin.
And obviously I've been a practicing nutritionist
Forever, but I would say it's very, to your point, very difficult to do the one-on-one and have a very successful business in that sense because you end up burning out because there's only so many hours in a day.
(45:20):
So I feel like my success, my real success started.
So in 2015, the
Other person that helps me in my business, Cam, he developed, he's an IT guy who developed a software that allowed me to do meal planning online
And he was like, you could just scale your business by selling meal plans, Mikki, as opposed to necessarily like, you know, having those one on one consults.
(45:45):
And I'm like
Cool.
So I just started really small with like, and the meal plans weren't necessarily weight loss plans.
They were just, here's how to eat three meals a day, which wasn't a great business strategy, to be honest.
No one, you know, people don't.
People don't really buy into that.
It's not a problem necessarily.
No, it's not a problem, totally.
And if it is a problem, it can be solved by HelloFresh, you know, like they don't need me to tell them
(46:10):
So it wasn't until until COVID when I had that opportunity with the the the colleagues to do a group program and then I realized that they had
They'd built this community that I was sort of coming into and helping them with.
And I'm like, that's a community piece.
So I sort of got those, which we'd already discussed, I sort of put those pieces together
(46:32):
But the real success came when I started listening to the likes of Jill and Shantae.
And I'm like, how do I actually run this as a business
And I'm not sure what it's like in Canada, but here in New Zealand, it's you don't talk yourself up.
You know, if you're like at all, and like if you're in your emails.
Selling, like people literally I had one lady say to me, Mikki, I love your science communication, your free science communication you bring out weekly.
(46:59):
So it was nice she acknowledged that, but she said, I hate your self-promotion.
And so and like it was she took the time to email that back and it really
Stuck with me.
I'm like, man, this is New Zealand for you.
Like, I cannot be a Costco and take out large ads in newspapers and advertise myself this way.
This is actually how I advertise myself.
So.
(47:20):
So I had to really lean into the likes of Jill's strategies and Shantae's mindset stuff and really do a lot of personal development, I think, which I continue to do now, and business development and just
which allowed me to get more confident in the selling piece because I knew that I had something that I could sell and it could really help people.
(47:44):
But I needed methods to help me with that.
So I think that is how I got success was actually getting a coach myself and being in the room with people like you.
Yeah, completely agree.
So shout out to
Getting a coach, first of all.
And that's Jill Coleman and Shante Cofield, both of whom have been on the podcast.
So everybody can go back and listen to those episodes.
(48:04):
And Jill is the leader at the helm of our mastermind group
But that's so crucial because I don't think too many people who are health whatever we are, health practitioners, we're not inherent business people.
We have to become business people.
We have to figure out how to
spin all the wrenches of a business and market ourselves and put ourselves out there in a way that works but also feels genuine, which is kind of what you described.
(48:31):
You're not a self-promotional person just by character.
But you still have to promote somehow, otherwise the business doesn't exist.
So this again is skill development, this personal development.
It's not unlike trying to help somebody lose weight.
We have to learn how to
Be the kind of person who puts ourselves out there in a way that feels good.
(48:53):
And the other important thing for me, Erin, was recognizing
what kind of business I wanted.
So to your point, as a solopreneur, you know, you haven't you haven't hired anyone.
Like I've kept it really small because I think I realized quite early on that
Management's not a skill set that I want to develop for me.
Like, I don't want other coaches.
(49:14):
I don't want to have that element of my busin
And what's important to me is lifestyle.
Like I want to enjoy my days.
I want to have you know, I want to make enough money so I can travel and do the
the events that I love doing with my hubster and to allow him to work a little bit less in his job as a nurse practitioner so we can, you know, hang together and, you know, like that, that's the kind of business I want.
(49:41):
For me, I don't have to be a gazillionaire to get that.
And I don't have to then also have this huge sort of empire.
Like, if it can be me.
Cam, who does my ITs, my integrator, my sister does my little admin bits, you know, and Hubster does the podcast podcast edits, then that's great as well.
So recognize what type of person you are and what and what kind of skills you want to develop or
(50:05):
You know, where you really shine because you could end up in the situation where you're trying to hire all these coaches because you think that's what it is
to be successful, but success looks different for different people.
Was there anything that you did that was a bad decision that you backpedaled on business wise?
(50:25):
Oh well, also so yeah, I reme I remember like I I suggested to someone that we
it came up, I don't even know if it was me suggesting, that we would collaborate on something like in a business sense, and we were in the throes of sort of figuring out what that was.
And then I realized I could never work with this person as a collaborator because I would like I just didn't want to be in that management space.
(50:51):
And I recognized that that's actually what would have to happen because
They didn't really have any skills around that.
And I'm like, you know what?
That's just not where I'm at.
And it was so I didn't go down the road, but I so I was able to catch myself
And then just sort of yeah, like just draw a line in the sand around it.
Yeah, I mean, it's just it's sort of know thyself, right?
(51:12):
I was talking to somebody on this podcast.
We were talking about
Social media marketing, whatever we're talking about social media stuff, because this person had a humongous following, and I was like, Man, it's amazing to have watched you grow, and it's so cool.
And he said, Oh, I've got this really great YouTube strategist, I'll totally hook you guys up.
And I said, No, that's okay.
He said, I don't have any interest in becoming a YouTuber.
I have a YouTube channel.
It's fine.
(51:33):
I like it as a repository of videos, but I have no interest in optimizing my YouTube.
But thank you very much, sir.
Have a nice day.
So it's sort of like.
I think a lot of, and by the way, this podcast is not just for new coaches, it's for new and established coaches in all kinds of walks of life.
But as we go down the garden path of building and growing our business and sustaining a business, like I've been at it for 15 years now.
(51:55):
Like you, you are going to get to know yourself so well that you will be able to make these decisions in the moment.
Like, this is for me, this is not for me.
There's a million things you could do, but you're not going to do them all.
Yeah.
For me, and just like for you, I don't really want to have a ton of staff because that looks like just such a headache to me.
Yeah.
I just feel like it's just, nope, that's not for me.
(52:17):
That's for somebody else.
Yeah.
That's okay.
And actually interesting though, because I know where we like so I the other person that I have as a consultant is someone who runs my Facebook ads
And you're a staunch ad person, you do yourself.
And for me, I'm like, no way, I just cannot, I do not have the skill set, and it would just cause me too much anxiety.
I'm like, this is just a cost of doing business.
And I think that's the other thing as well (52:39):
at some point,
it doesn't matter what it is, but you have to figure out what is the cost of doing business for you that's allowing you to run your business the way that you want it to be run.
And for me, it is putting the outlay of having a Facebook ads manager.
And for someone else, it might be something else.
(52:59):
But at some point, you do have to invest in areas in your business where you might not have thought you needed to.
That's another thing.
Like the coach thing for us.
Yeah.
Well, actually, it reminds me of when you're doing like projects around your house, for example.
So for example, next to my office here is a spare bathroom and a couple of winters ago, the pipes burst and the whole bathroom was destroyed and it's a big thing.
(53:23):
So we were going to do it ourselves, rebuild this bathroom.
And I was like, you know what?
No.
We're going to pay somebody else to do this because time is money, but frustration is also money.
And so, like, the frustration of managing people, the frustration of managing your ads, the frustration of, you know, doing
Your own social post, whatever the thing is.
If you really
(53:45):
Don't like doing it, somebody else might have to do it for you.
And that is a cost of doing business, and it's probably really worth it.
But that's just a question of knowing yourself and what.
And sometimes it just takes a bit of trial and err
Yeah, a hundred per cent agree because I also think about it from a like a cl like
Other chores sort of perspective, like, yeah, I could do this these three things and spend hours in my house doing these things, but if I can pay someone else to do that, then that's actually going to free up my time.
(54:15):
to put my energy into an area which is actually where a lot of my skills lie, rather than like wasting time doing all these other things, which someone else is way better at.
That's right.
Yep.
Very cool.
You have a podcast.
I'm just curious because like the long form content, podcast YouTube blogs, they're kind of like
There's still a market for this, even though we feel like we live in the short content realm.
(54:38):
How has the podcast been for you?
Do you find it's been a good business-building tool?
Or how do you frame your podcast?
Well, Erin, I love it because it allows me to connect with individuals.
It's a really selfish endeavor, isn't it?
When you're like, oh, this researcher did this amazing
(54:59):
Study and it has this whole body of like work, and I really want to chat to them about it.
I'd love to really pick their brain.
Having a podcast allows you to do that, it's like some sort of legitimacy.
I feel like it was easier a few years ago to get guests.
Maybe more people seem to be saying no now than what they used to.
But it gives me another platform with which people hear my voice.
(55:23):
And people really like it.
I love conversation and I love like picking people's brains about certain topics.
It's a little bit like
Professional development myself because I have to learn a little bit about a topic.
Albeit, you do that a lot less now with the lights of AI.
It's actually far easier to prepare for a podcast than it ever has been.
And and then I yeah, I just it has all elements which I which I really love, like connecting with someone and and chatting.
(55:50):
So I think it's a really good business tool.
And I feel like Jill talks about this a lot too, because you have a podcast and then you've got the transcript of a podcast that you could then turn into a blog if you wanted.
You could turn it into an email that you send out to your list.
You can put the podcast up on YouTube, even if, like I do, it's just got my Mikipedia logo.
(56:13):
So, you know, it doesn't even have like the video, and it's
there are just more opportunities for people to learn from you.
And as an educator, I feel like it adds value.
So I love it.
Yeah, I think it's really cool too.
I was chatting with somebody else about this.
It's feel it feels to me like a pretty low stakes bit of effort that
(56:35):
Has a pretty solid payoff if it's something that somebody wants to do.
There's a little bit of technology required, but not a ton, and
One thing I like about hosting my podcast is it helps me sharpen the sword on my message and what I stand for.
Yeah.
I just think we're always I think it's always important for us to be super, super clear on our message.
(56:59):
And any time we can be saying it
rep repetitively.
It really hones in.
And I would say I many of the people I get on the phone who apply to be in my weight loss program have binged my whole podcast and they already know
Basically, what the program entails, because I've talked about it ad nauseum, which is great.
Yeah.
It helps.
It is really great.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
(57:19):
And in addition to the long interviews I do weekly, I also like you do solo episodes too, because
that for all the reasons that you just described, it gives me an opportunity to learn about a topic.
I get to share my views in an uncontested way
And not that I don't want it to be contested and I don't want the discussion, but it allows me to at least upfront say exactly what I think, and then people can
(57:45):
absorb it and interpret it, then ask questions about it and disagree and it's okay to disagree, you know, like and I think that's but it at least does allow me to do that
I think that's a good point.
That's a really nice point, is that we all do have our perspective, our point of view.
Yeah.
Like strongly held convictions, I would hope
(58:06):
And it's okay to say those.
It's okay to say, here's what I think.
Yeah.
I think that there's something about maybe all the infighting and arguing that happens on the internet now.
People are a little scared.
I know this from new, I know new health coaches.
are scared to say anything online because somebody's going to debunk them.
I don't think they will.
You're allowed to have a strongly held conviction about something
(58:27):
And it probably would be really worthwhile to put that out there somewhere so people really, really know what you do and don't stand for, which is just going to help.
I agree because we've had this conversation in our group before about going viral and not going viral.
Like
Like, what's the point in going viral if all you're doing is attracting people who actually do not know your message, don't really align with your views?
(58:51):
And you know, so it's so you might as well put them out there and attract the right people because they're the people who you want to attract to your business.
That's right.
Yeah.
Goodness gracious.
So people will want to follow you, see where you're up to.
Where can they do that?
Yeah, amazing.
Thank you, Erin.
Instagram is my favorite platform, I think.
(59:12):
at Mikki Willodin, and I share a lot.
It's it's my professional page, but it's my personal page as well.
So it is my page.
I do with it what I do.
I do a lot of teaching, but I also share a lot of what I do personally.
You're not going to love all of it, so don't expect to
My podcast is Mikapedia.
And it to your point, it talks about health, wellness, fitness, anything that I'm interested in.
(59:36):
Interview experts as well, which is really great.
And my website is mikkiwilliden.
com.
And you can scroll right to the bottom and sign up for my email, which comes out weekly.
whatever's on my mind that week, I'm probably going to want to talk about.
And it's either some sort of really well researched, reviewed, and referenced science piece, or it's my thoughts on
(01:00:01):
I don't know, Doritos.
You know, it's it it's it just doesn't matter, but it's just whatever's on my mind I'm gonna share.
Amazing.
I'm gonna sign up for sure
Amazing, Erin.
Lovely.
Okay, Mikki.
Well, enjoy the rest of your day.
Thank you so much for sharing all of your amazing wisdom with our audience here, and always great to connect with you.
I loved it, Erin.
Thank you so much for inviting me on.
(01:00:22):
This podcast was brought to you by Primal Health Coach Institute.
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com forward slash call.
Or if you're already a successful health coach, practitioner, influencer, or thought leader with a thriving business and an interesting story, we'd love to hear from you
Connect with us at hello at primalhealthcoach.
(01:00:44):
com and let us know why we need to interview you for Health Coach Radio.
Thanks for listening.
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