The Life of a Solegirl with Taylor Thomas

Heart and Sole is BACK! In today's episode, Kathryn and Taylor Thomas dive deep into Taylor Swift's latest album, 'The Life of a Showgirl.' They discuss their initial reactions, the production quality, and the missed opportunities in visuals and marketing. The conversation explores the themes of love and happiness in the album, comparing it to Swift's previous works, and analyzing standout songs. They reflect on the cultural impact of Swift's music and what the future may hold for her career. Ultimately, they share their thoughts on the album's reception and engage with listeners about their own experiences with Swift's music!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to the Heart and Soul Podcast with Catherine Banko.
I'm on a mission to celebrate breakthrough, empowerment and shameless
living in the lives of women everywhere. Join me and
let's live unashamed together.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
What's going on? Everybody? Welcome back to Heart and Soul.
I took a little month hiatus. If you even notice,
I don't even think I have enough listeners to notice that.
But I'm back, baby. Our last episode was with Hannah
and Grant a straight up month ago. Then the world
got heavy, life got busy, and honestly, my mom left town,

(00:35):
so I didn't have a babysitter, so I really couldn't
plan a recording. But we're back and today I am
here with Taylor Thomas.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Everyone, t the one and only because obviously Taylor Swift
released a new album and we have to talk about it.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
We do. Yeah, you gotta talking about Mac.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
While she was here, she told she told me, did
y'all talk?

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Tell you?

Speaker 2 (01:03):
You just feel so natural?

Speaker 3 (01:05):
It was great.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
It was connecting with an old friend.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
It really was. It was like it was like light
and fun and positive and.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Like hugged out acts in Europe, she's in Europe. She's
been there three weeks and she has another week left.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Well, we're not going to give any more of her
location details for her safety. All the people who listen
to those after Taylor album I wore a cowboy cowboy
like me hat I'm solidarity.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Well I don't know that we're solid today, Taylor. So
you can go ahead, lie, but we're going to talk
about life of the showgirl, or as I like to
call it, life of a soul girl.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Okay, soul girl.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
No reaction, Okay, soul girl.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, you feel like she feels so soulful.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
No soul fitness. Wow, welcome to my business. You're in
my home literally called the Heart and Soul Podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
The Heart and Soul.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Okay. So going into this, Taylor texted me on not
Taylor Swift. Taylor Thomas texted me on was that Friday?

Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yes, on Friday release.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Day, and you were like, f y, I don't like it.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
I said, well, it's a morning, Well it is a
release day, and and then we are coordinating this well
you would we had been coordinating this podcast before August.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
She announced the album correct.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Correct, correct, and and I was just like, hey, I'm
I'm so happy to get on there and like share
my thoughts, my feelings. There's a lot of them. But
I want you to know. I just want you to
know that I'm not really much of a fan.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
At this point in time of her or of the album.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Of the album. Okay, she's still my girl.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Okay, that's all I need to hear.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's still my girl.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
I'm just like, well, let's start with that. Why don't
you like the album?

Speaker 3 (02:55):
My thing about my think about the album and her
at this moment in time is so two the way
I think people will hear me talk about politics and
think that I don't like America, and that's not the case.
It's like I love America and I just think we
can do better. And that's what I think about Miss
Swift right now. It's like, I love you, Do you

(03:17):
do better? I think you can do so much better.
And I think this was this is the first time
I felt like she was really phoning it in. Wow,
But I don't want to start on the negative. Let's
start with the positive stuff.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
I mean, I kind of do want to start negative
so we can end happy. Okay, great, Why do you
feel like it's phoned in or do you feel like
it was just rushed, like done so fast?

Speaker 3 (03:39):
It's giving rushed. It's also like she was very public
about filming the or filming recording this while she was
doing the tour, so I know she's exhausted and she's
just flying over to Sweden to which is crazy. Isn't
that crazy? I don't know where she's flying from, you know.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
And she was doing like three and a half hour shows,
like three or four days a week, and then in
between recording and now.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah, the lady's a machine for sure.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Do you think she got it done like pretty quickly,
like she had it all written and then her and
Max were like, we're in Sweden.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
I do think so. And I also think that there
are some ideas here that would have fit more in
the reputation timeline, like some ideas that she had on
the album that came to fruition on this album that
I feel like these could have been like scrapped on
the floor during reputation.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Just pick back up, just pick back.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Up, you know, like, oh, I remember having this idea,
like what if we tried this?

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Do you think is that other figure.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Man? I had such high hopes for Father Figure.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
I have a feeling every you're just going to the
track list negative nancy about it.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
No, I really don't. I really don't want to be
negative or downer. I just want to share.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
No, I want you to be honest. This is a
safe space.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
I feel like honestly, like actually romantic feels very reputation
to me. Yeah, that does canceled if it wasn't the
word canceled. But even maybe even then, we think we're
on cancel culture then in reputation.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Before cancel culture.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah, but I don't know. There's just like a few things,
and maybe that was like kind of the nod of
all these reputation easter eggs that she did leading up
to it, and even in the movie.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
Did you go to It? I did the theater, the theater,
the music video.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
We went to the theater, the three o'clock showing the
first one actually nice.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yeah, the music video was fun.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
The music video is fun.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
She looked beautiful, She's never looked better.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
Yeah, true, I mean these visuals unreal, Yeah, which is
another reason for my disappointment. Like the rollout of this
was so cool. Yeah, and like the pictures were stunning. Yeah,
and like she looks amazing.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
She never looked better.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
No, And these outfits that she was wearing were so
cool and just like the whole aesthetic of the life
of a show girl. I'm into it, Like the the
shards on the out album whatever. I didn't really love
the album cover, but it's grown on me. I think
there were some other images that were really strong that
could have like captured all of this more. But that's
the whole thing. She was pitching me, this one thing,
this like life of a showgirl thing, and I got

(06:13):
something different. And I think that what I got from
the album was like I'm really happy, I'm in love,
which are great things, so happy for it. And I'm
happy that you're going to get married, I'm happy that
you want kids. None of those things offend me at all.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
That's good, But truly happiness does not make sure.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
Happiness not my issue. Yeah, but I think it was
just package in a way that was like I just
had like such a different idea going into it.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
I think like the marketing for it, the build up
was I think we were all expecting like Mulin Rouge,
like Lady Marmalade vibes very but I think what we
have to remember is it's the life of a showgirl.
She's the showgirl and it's her life.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
That's what I'm trying to remember too, and I'm like
and ultimately, here my here, my big blanket statements. It's
her art, it's her artistry. She can she has a
freedom and do whatever she wants. She's not making music
just for me. I get it, but also with all arts,
like she can make it however she wants and I
can receive it. However, it's like, yeah, being received, you know,
it might not be your faith, and it just feels

(07:18):
very vapid and like none of the words here and
not even just the lyricism, like I get down with
her other songs that don't really have much depth lyrically,
but like they're fun and I'm gonna ride until the
wheels fall off. Yeah, and I think it's me Yeah
except for me.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, we don't do me.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
That's a hard no. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
People, there's a lot of funny tiktoks out there that
are like y'all are saying that this is like her
worst lyric album. Could y'all hear me?

Speaker 3 (07:49):
Yeah? I know bad?

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Or even remember when Reputation was coming out. In the
first single was look what You made me do everyone
hated it.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
Well, and here's the other thing, is like, yeah, that's
true and it but the first time I heard it
was like such a shock factor and then and then
I was like, oh, this is incredible. I want it
in my veins.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
But and she always does corny stuff. She's a corny girl.
Pop music's corny at heart, Like I get it, and
she always has those corny lyrics, like on Reputation. The
first time you heard her say I guess I'll just
stumble on home to my cats, You're just like, oh,
you know, it's like that little like moment and then
you get into it and it's usually like a little

(08:26):
moment within an album. And then I think on this one,
I just got like so much of that.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
It's a grower, not a shower just to turn. But yeah,
episode title, Yeah, I'm hoping that.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
It's a grower. You know, I'm hoping that it's a
grower because I just, like I did the first listen
at midnight, I was like, oh, wow, I need to
sleep on this. And then there's your problem.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
We don't stay until midnight at our age.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
Anyway, I know I gotta stop. And I still haven't
listened to it in headphones, which is different too.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
It is different. Okay, tell me wait before we get going,
I want to show you. I hope I can find it.
I'm going to try and play it on the mic.
But there's a TikTok that I saw of this girl
explaining how everyone's like, like, how Taylor just can ever win? Really?

Speaker 3 (09:20):
Is it the one where she's holding up all the
albums and she's like, everyone knows nobody likes system because
it doesn't feel so Yeah, but I just don't think
it's true. It made me so mad.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
You don't think it's true? No, why not?

Speaker 3 (09:31):
Well, I don't think it's true.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
For my experience, three point three million people think it's true.
I let me tell you that.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
Well, Rolling Stone thinks this is a perfect album.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
So I think that she pays Rolling Stone. I don't
know if she pays them, but I think they have
like a partnership.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yeah. What's his name? Who loves her so much? The
guy who always reviews her, Ryan something? Yeah, he's a
big span of hers. All Right, here's my thought. I
think that the visuals and the rollout of the album
was so cool, and I think it promised this sound

(10:11):
and this vibe, even though it is called the Life
of a Showgirl, but even if it's the life of
a showgirl while we're in our images like you doing
something not showgirly and all the costumes are hung up
in the back, you know what I mean, Like why
are you're still in the costumes if it's not like
that thing? And here's my all right, I want you
to imagine with it. The first time you listen to it,

(10:34):
you hit play, and you can hear like the din
of like a nightclub, like people chattering, some glasses clinking,
just like that background noise, and then you hear like
big band kind of music, like big trumpets, a big
like drum roll or something, and then it's like all
the symbols crashing, and then like the curtains rise and
it's her first number and it's almost like in the

(10:56):
same vein as I can do it with a broken heart,
maybe you know what I mean, Or just like a
or just like a really slow, like cabaret like snappy
thing where she's just like getting the audience started and
it's still talking about the life of the showgirl. She's
singing about like you know, this is where I am
this is this is what I've always wanted this. Here
I am on the stage, You're all looking at me,
spotlights on me, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

(11:19):
And then as that song concludes, you hear you hear applause.
You can hear her little heels like on the stage,
clicking between I really thought you can hear it, like
clicking between different songs while you're you're imagining, like she's
getting set up for the next number. And then there
will be moments where she's like truly backstage in the
in the dressing room and she's thinking, like, you know,

(11:40):
here I am just like switching into another costume. All
I want to be doing is this. I just want you,
you know, like that kind of thing. And so I
feel like we could have gotten a lot with this
theme that wet which wasn't given to me. Like when
I hear it, like even just sonically, to me, it's
like a lot of acoustic guitar and even the life

(12:02):
of a showgirl. The title track is like a stomp
and clap sound. It's like on a it's soundry cycled.
It sounds phoned into me. It doesn't it's not it's
not producing what I thought she was going to be
giving me.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
I will agree with you. On the production side, when
she like hyped up working with Max Martin and shell
Back again, everyone was hoping for reputation, which the sonic
like reputation sonically is just so powerful, so loud. It's
so like like the things that they thought about to

(12:41):
put into those songs regular humans would never think about,
like the even the door slams or the yah like
all that crap.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
I was expecting more like umph in that in the
production side. But I have fun listening to it.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yeah, No, truly, It's like it's like if it had
been packaging me in a completely different way, right.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
You just you don't like the branding, I don't.

Speaker 3 (13:08):
I don't like that it promised us one thing and
then didn't give me that thing. And I feel like
she's usually so on the nose with like the vibe
that she's giving with the roll up of the album,
like Tortured Poets, that rollout was exactly what we got
and I love it. I think it's a great album,
and with reputation, even it sounds like what we were

(13:29):
promised read it's like this, it sounds like what's given
to you, you know what I mean? And this is
the first miss for me in that way for her
and with the production notes like Max Martin that I
saw the quote that he did for New York Times magazine,
I think where he's talking about being back in the
studio with Shellback and her and he says, you know,

(13:50):
this time getting all of us together, it felt like
we were all equally contributing, which is a cool experience,
but again makes me a little like kind of a
kind of a bummer, like, yeah, you all were equally
pulling on this, and it still just feels kind of
flat to me. However, they are very fun songs. People
on the internet are really liking it, so I think.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
That like me, there's not one song except maybe what's
the slow one Eldest Daughter or I'm not like kind
of feeling the beat. I'm just I'm not like dancing
in the background, right. But all the tiktoks that are
killing me are people putting people dancing like in other situations,

(14:31):
Like there's like the Friend two songs that she's released,
Like just imagine them dancing to this song and it
like always goes in perfectly because they're just dance song.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
They're just dancing. Yeah, they're just having a good time, Yeah,
which I'll enjoy. And I think that like, I think that, Yeah,
I think we've got a lot of songs here that
that will be heard in public dance spaces for a
long time.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Speaking of Grower, not Showery, I had I had a
call back, No, but I think we talked about this
last time when we were I don't know, maybe one of.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
The vaults yeats or something.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
But with Lover, we talked about how that album was.
It fell in the in the time it was released
kind of like a miss to me. And then now
I listened to Lover and I'm like, it's kind of fun.
It's pretty fun.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
Lover was like definitely my least favorite album.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
But it kind of grows on you. Yes, the Grower
showing like Cruel Summer then came out like what three
five years three to five years later as a single
because like people had to just like wait on it.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah they weren't, they weren't. But that rollout was so bad, horrible.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
That was her. That was her worst rollout. Was happy
when she was caring it and putting hearts around her eyes.
And then she went on Good Morning America and.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
Tell me one person who profited from COVID. It's her.
She really did, I'm not kidding.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah, her being sad, like I will say, as sad
as I was at her and Joe all when like that,
she was heartbroken like that relationship was so necessary for
her to release some of those sad songs.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yeah, if COVID never happened, we would have had Lover Fast.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
We still don't know what that was going to be,
and I.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Don't think it was going to be good because it
was only two shows. Remember it was like an East
coast and a West coast.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
It changed her whole career, it really did. Like Lover
the Lover era being interrupted like that, I think changed
her entire career.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, she needed it. Well, are there any songs on
the album that you like?

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Like?

Speaker 3 (16:34):
All right, here's my controversial opinion. I think that the
one that I have the least notes on for some reason,
is actually romantic m I think it just like it's
already like a radio song. I don't really like the
here's another issue with the album. I don't like the
idea that she's now at the peak of her career,
the most powerful woman in music, most powerful person in

(16:56):
music probably, and we're talking about we're even like we're
even like slightly entertaining the possibility that this is about
another artist. It's like, which is fine. I mean this
the the rumor is that it's about Charlie XCX.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
And Charlie, by the way, I was her entire career,
my entire time of knowing her. I have been calling
her Charlie x c I this morning.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
This morning, that sounds like a like a xerox print.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
I know, I don't know what I was thinking. And
I even went to the Reputation tour where she opened
and like, still Charlie x CI, Like it's like when
my mom calls Chipotle, Chipotle, Chipotle. Yeah, It's like I
never stopped. But this morning I was training someone and
she was like, did you say x C I And
I was like, yeah, yeah, she was like, it's XCX
and I was like, I had no idea.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
Every time I read it, it's x C I.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Literally don't even see It's like, I'm just like thig
literally her name is Charlie XI. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
But even with like that, which maybe it is about
her I'm sure that obviously she never says but it's
about somebody any of her songs, so we'll never get confirmation.
But I just don't like that. I just don't feel
like she needs to entertain it. And again, it's her music.
She can do whatever she wants. But for me, it's
like hearing her do this kind of thing. Also, the
canceled song like just feels like are we really talking

(18:12):
about like Also that song just sounds to me like
a Disney villain song, like she wrote it to being
a in a cartoon or something, and it just feels
it feels beneath her. You know, I feel I would
I would believe it more that you don't care about
these things if you just didn't talk about them anymore,
that's true, you know.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
But then she did talk about it all of reputation
and that we love I loved reputation.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
That was the moment, yes, then, but now we want now.
But that's also where she was. She was the one canceled.
Everyone was turning on it, the world hated her, and
she was like, you know what, here's I'm tired of
like trying to be good and like whatever. Yeah, but
now it's like literally no one can touch you. You're
so powerful. I don't think anyone's like really even has

(18:59):
the opportunity to walk on you or take advantage of
you anymore, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
She's bigger than this anyway.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Actually Romantic, I think is a fun, fun little song,
and I like there's something about honey until the Endney.
I know, there's like a part at the end where
I'm just like, yeah, I would have like done this differently,
but overall, like I like these songs.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah, do you think that canceled? Speaking of canceled means
that her and Blake are still friends. That's what people
are throwing out there, is.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
That the one where she says does your girl boss
too close to the song?

Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah, which is what canaze Owen said about Blake Lively.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
Yeah, and I I just learned that yesterday, and I
said that Taylor's team needs to be putting that on
the front of everything, because like when you hear that lyric,
you're like, yeah, but it now it makes a pool
quote from an article.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
It's like yeah. And then also she says like, I
like my covered in Gucci and scandal, and like Blake
Lively is Gucci girl. So it's Tay now, especially her
since Travis.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yeah, I think he could be. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
I just don't think they're friends either. I just feel
like maybe maybe they're cordial, but I just feel like
Taylor's like, listen, you dragged me into something that I
was never a part of because no reason those text right, Yeah,
she was like you Basically she used Taylor for clout
A in a court case, so which is like, it's
not even cool clout it's clout to win a litigation.

(20:27):
And Taylor is probably just like we can be fine,
but like we're not going to be as close as
we were. If this is how you're gonna like treat
our personal messages or things that I approve of when
you write a movie or whatever.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, I think that makes sense. And I wouldn't be
surprised either way, honestly, Like they could still be friends
and she'd be like, oh, that's fine.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
The only thing I keep going back to, though, is
that Travis Kelsey did unfollow Ryan Reynolds a.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
Loyal king.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
He is a loyal king. I love them together.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, they're so cute.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Actually, after their interview. I love them together.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
So that leads me to another point, the happiness of
being married, being in love.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
I love I'm really not I'm really not buying that tailor.
This is the second time you brought this I do.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
I'm just making sure that it's very clear. So happy,
I love love. I'm so happy that she has this
man that she like, feels really happy for and is
obviously like smitten. She is smitten and we've all heard
would so yeah, a lot to According to her, she
does a lot to be smitten about.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
That is a shower.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
And maybe it felt frustrating to me to hear her
on this album like kind of discredit all of her goodness.
It felt like even with the fate of Ophelia. I mean,
I know this is like a thing that happens in
her songs before, but I think it feels different to me.
It's waited differently because she now is engaged to this man.

(22:04):
Where before it was like an idea of like, oh
i'm i'm I could drown in melancholy until you come
and save me, Like it was more of an idea,
And now that she's got this man and you're singing
this way, it feels like, wait, but I thought you
were doing this whole thing for so many years of
like people don't care about me because I'm a woman.

(22:24):
People would listen, like only the men in the room
get to talk, and now you've got this man and
now everything's great and wonderful. It felt like it was
like a little it felt like it was yeah, like
selling herself short after she's at the truly the height
of her career career, Yeah, does it make sense? And
like and yeah, it was just odd. It was just

(22:46):
very surprising to hear that from her. Yeah, and maybe
I'm hearing it differently.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Well, I think that's that's the thing, is we want
Taylor to be past Taylor's true a little bit. Maybe, yeah,
because like there is something about finding the safety of
the person that's your person where you're like, yeah, you
kind of do feel a little more free, like I
don't have to be so like and hard and I
don't know, like to tack it to the manny.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
And maybe that maybe this is her. Maybe this is
like what I'm trying to remind myself is like maybe
this new sound and like the what the stuff that
she's singing about and like the way that she's doing it.
Maybe this is just what she always wanted to do.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
And maybe it's also a little bit of like even
they kind of mentioned this in the interview they did
on his podcast of like she's brilliant obviously. The way
she speaks is just how do you form? So I
mean it's kind of how you speak like English teachery,
you know you just you're brilliant too.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
I was an actual English teacher.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, he was back when we were together. I mean
I didn't love him for his money people.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
That's true, that's true.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
But it seems like she made she released this out
a little bit, and I think you're making me negative,
so I will go back to positivity. But it seems
like she released this album a little bit to appease
him in the sense of like Tortured Poets was so
over his head. Like, let's be honest, I.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
Love Torture, but I had this. I have a friend
who mentioned, like we were talking about the rollout and
what was delivered, and she said, if this album had
been named eighty seven, I wouldn't be shocked by any
of this.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Right, Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, it's very like, yeah,
it's like catered to him, which I don't think he
forced her. She felt pressure on. In fact, like I
was so moved during their interview where every time she
would use a big word, he was like like he
was getting hot. He loves it. He loves how smart

(24:45):
she is, and it doesn't intimidate him, no, to make
him feel stupid.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
We talked about them together before on this podcast. I
believe and like so excited for them and the fact
that he's like successful in his own way. I agree.
I don't think that he had any kind of influence
directly onto what she's writing. Consciously though, sure, yeah, but
I think that she just is just feeling away and
that she's she's writing about and she's expressing it that way.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Okay, can I talk now?

Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah? Be positive? Make me positive?

Speaker 2 (25:16):
All right, here's where the episode turns around. No, I
think it's fun. I don't think it's my favorite album,
but that I was texting with Melody actually on Saturday,
and I was like, it is an album though that
I can listen all the way through without wanting to
skip a song.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
Okay, Yeah, and it's so short too.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
It's like fun and short and like I don't feel
the need to get to the next one. Where with
Tortured Poets as much I love Torture Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
I mean it's phenomenal.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Talk about lyrical genius, and I think that's what people
are shocked about, is her going from that to this.
But there are some songs on Torture Poets where I'm like,
I'm a skip this one for sure, because there's like
a bajillion song.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
Sure as there's skips on every album from me.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Well yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
But even her skips are still good.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
That's true. It's true, it's true. So I like that
about this album.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
It's fun.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
It feels fun and flirty. It feels like she didn't
think too much on it, which I know you hate,
but I kind of like that for her, Like she's like,
you know what, I'm at the top of my game.
I can do whatever I want. If I want to
put out a fun album, sure, yeah, why not. It's
not pro business woman like she's always been.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
No, it's very pro business woman. She's making me mad.
I am sick of her doing all these variants of
the vinyls, the variants of the CDs. I'm like, oh,
that part is my ass to the movie theater.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Listen, you bought the ticket you no, I know.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
And then it's like, here's the video and like, here's
the lyric videos all of what you are going to
be on YouTube on Sunday, Which you.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Knew that, right, you had to have known.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
I know that's what it was going to be. I mean,
I knew it was like behind the scenes for the
making of the video. But yeah, okay, anyway you'd be
positive the way.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
You couldn't get me to a movie theater this weekend
and I was just going to wait till the last
I watched the music video.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
Yeah, it was. It was weird.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
I will say I like that. I like that of
the album. If we're looking for like the deepest of
Taylor's it's not, it's not it. It's not it. And
I think that's okay. I think she can do whatever
she wants and she's just doing whatever she wants, and
I like that. With the press, she has kind of
said that like it's not that deep, y'all like, and
she basically or when the guy asked him and one

(27:24):
of the British radio shows she was on asked her,
are you gonna tour agin She's like, no, I'm so
tired and I don't need to Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:32):
Good for her.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Part of me thinks that she should have ridden the
wave of aristour and TTVD for a little bit longer
and then surprised us years later with another album where
we kind of missed her a little bit. I think
it was almost like two jam packs. Now, I'll never
complain about more Taylor music.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
So unless it was really a unless it was really
done in a way of like, all right, this is
my cap to this portion of my life, like the
showgirl and me is is changing, and I wish I
felt that more from the album, and then I'd be like,
all right, the timing of this is great. You know,
it's like right after the airstore, I'm so tired. But

(28:10):
I did feel all these things and I want to
share them. And now we're now it's very clearly like
putting a cap on that kind of thing that we
know Taylor Swift to be.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
I could see that. Listen.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
I agree with you though we kind of.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
Agree with each other, we do. But I have a
lot of fun listening to this album.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
I love it. I love that you do. My question
for you is going to be all right now that
this is part of her discography. So now she has
twelve albums. Yeah, if you had somebody an alien comes
to Earth, I was gonna say, there's nobody on earth
who doesn't know who she is, but somebody it's got
to be an alien. And you're like, okay, let me
introduce you to her. Where would this album fit in?

(28:51):
Like the order of which you not the ranking, but
like you're exposing this person to who Taylor Swift is,
and you're doing it album at a time.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
I think I'd start with nineteen eighty.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
Nine, okay, and then where would you go?

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Now I'm just doing album ranking, okay.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
So nineteen eighty nine is like number one. Still.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
I mean, Red's my favorite album just because of where
I was in my life at that point. I've gone
into very It just was so pivotal in my life.
But nineteen eighty nine to me is the best pop
album everten Yeah, it's so good. And then I love reputation,
but I also am a fangirl of folklore ever more
on TTPD, like I love the sad stuff same and

(29:33):
I can listen to it on repeat over and over
and over again. In fact, I'll probably listen to it
in between all the rep and Life of a show
Girl I forgot the question, but I don't know what.
All right, so what would you say to this alien?

Speaker 3 (29:47):
I would say, all right, we're gonna start off with maybe.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Harra's tour, just watch the Fears tour.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Bruh true. Oh that's a good idea. Yeah, I'd probably
start with Fearless. I'd be like, all right, this is
true love fear Like, let's start off here, like this
is who she this is who we all knew her
as who we thought she was. And then the alien
would be like, oh, this is cute. She sounds great,
like a great Lyricism'd be like, I know, and she
was nineteen. He's like, whoa, I don't know what that

(30:15):
means anyway, and then we'd get to go from there.
But I don't think that I think that it could
fit in when you're showing a little.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Shocking that and I know this about you, you love Fearless,
love that great that you think that this one is
worse than that one. I think this is from a
like cheesy lyrical standpoint, But maybe that's what you expected
of her then because she was a teenage.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
Girl and it fits the aesthetic of the album.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
And totally okay, I get it out.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
I get it, you know what I mean. That's my
thing is like if this had come out right after
nineteen eighty nine story, I wouldn't be second guessing any
of this, right, you know what I mean. But it's
the fact that it's coming out now, and it feels
it feels mmmm, it feels reductive to her own self

(31:06):
in a way. Talent it all, it all feels yeah,
it all feels yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
I don't really rest and not thought through.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
I was thinking about this podcast today when I was
pressure washing my patio yesterday. I was I was thinking
about like the album, and I was just thinking of
some some ways that she even could have changed lyrics
to make them fit this idea that I had. I
know this is all coming through my frame of mind,
but it could have changed the entire story, like with

(31:41):
the life of a show Girl, if it had been
more of this this woman who's made it and succeeded
telling this girl directly, Like, I know that you think
that you want this. I know this is what she
was getting at, but I think that she she could
have like changed some words just slightly to tell that
story a little clearer and in a in a more
compelling way. I think that could have been great. I

(32:04):
also think, like for Elizabeth Taylor, that song, I would
have loved for her to be like as a showgirl,
kind of invoking the spirit of Elizabeth Taylor talking to
her as if she's a presence in front of her,
like Elizabeth Taylor, like, you've done this before. You've been
in the position where I am like, you're so famous,
and you you've dated all these men, been married to

(32:24):
all these men, whatever, and I need you, yeah, and
I need you to tell me, like, do you think
this one's forever?

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Oh, that's a good idea, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Or even if it's not the relationship, if it's the career,
if it's something, and like have this this kind of
connection to this proven showgirl and getting advice that way
or something. I think they are just ways that this
I don't even remember what the first line of question was,
but I think there are ways that this could have

(32:53):
been tweaked to.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Really I agree with that. So the whole package, it's
kind of changing my mind. And I won't let you
make me.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
You can still listen, here's the other thing. You can
still enjoy the song. My argument is more about the
album as a whole. Yeah, yeah, the album as a
whole and the and the packaging of the album are
two different things. And I think that the lyricism that
she did have in the songs don't need to be
torture poets. I'm not asking for that. Yeah, when she

(33:21):
told us it was the pop album, I knew I
wasn't getting torture poets. I'm ready for like the ninety
degree turn right, like the Deep said, now we're gonna
dance around and be hype cool with it. I love it.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
But his storytelling isn't as much there.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
Yeah, she is storyteller, and even I mean, for me,
the songs sound fun, but they all seem you know,
it's like the Woods sounding like that Michael Jackson or
that Jackson five song. It's that song to me sounds
like a Bruno Mar's wedding reception song, you know what
I mean. And so when I'm just like in my
car and I'm like, this is Cornesia.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
It's Cornesia. Okay? Do you think speaking of Jackson five
and like people are saying Jonas brothers for Life of
a Showgirl and then there's one more teenaged their bag, right, Yeah?
Did she give them credit because there's like stuff on
TikTok where it says they have credits and the lyrics.
Oh really, But then people are fighting back on that,
saying anyone can add anything to lyrics dot com round genius.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah, yeah, those are probably well I don't know how
genius works, but like I would imagine it's the same
kind of thing as Wikipedia, where anybody can change the page.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah. I just kind of feel like Taylor, who like
always crosses her t's and dots her eyes, would have
given them credit. But I guess I don't know, so
I can't answer that well.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
And you would also think that because she was so
public about the George Michael thing too, George Michael, Yes,
whole public thing of like we're so grateful that like
George Michael's estate like gave us the blessing for father
figure and they said that, you know, as soon as
they heard it, they would you know, he would want
this to And so if she's doing that for George Michael,
you would think that she would have on it for

(35:00):
these others, you know what I mean, right.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Which makes me think that maybe it was done so
quickly and so rushed that she didn't even think that.
What does this sound like? I know, because you know
that's that's her and Olivia and Rigo's story why they
fell out, as she stole.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
Well, actually romantic does sound very Olivia. Yeah, don't you think? Yeah,
even if we're so, if we're not thinking about it
as just Charlie, but if it's Charlie and yeah, Olivia, yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
I can see that. Or I think it's like for her,
it's never just about one person. It's like it's.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
Like the big feeling the theme. Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Okay, I'm gonna talk about the songs that I love. Yeah,
tell me okay, because we're gonna get a happ fee.
I love Honey, It's so cute.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
It's so cute and it sounds great.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
I love wish List. Yeah, all these are cheesy, I get,
but I'm a cheesy person. I love Opelite.

Speaker 3 (35:49):
Op It's fun, fancy. People love it. Yeah, the internet's
loving Opelite too.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
I I like Ruined the Friendship a lot as far
as storytelling goes, that's probably her her best like storytelling
song on the album. But man, did you like kind
of like take a pause when she said, Abigail call
me with the bad news.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
I know, well, you know, I can't listen to Forever Winter,
which is about that about the same guy guy without
like if you if that song shuffles on, you're like,
who I got chilled? Yeah, well and up it's sad. Yeah,
but yeah that one, that one was good.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
But the message of it that was like that to
me was how Taylor writes is you're like kind of
confused on what the message message is or the point
of the song is, and then you have to listen
to a couple of times and you're like, oh, this
is the message.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
It's like the messages like take a chance, don't waste
a day.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
It's always worth ruining the for intro.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Yes, because you're not promised tomorrow nothing.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
That one's great in the movie. I don't know if
she's if it's been. I'm sure it's all out on
the internet now. But she does that little intro before
the actual lyric video and she says like I think
she said this is her favorite one, and maybe Wishless
is her favorite, is their favorite, But she talks about
ruined the friendship, and she's like this, this to me
feels like I'm floating through the clouds like, I love

(37:09):
this song. It's really sweet. Yeah, unless I'm misremembering.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Now Track five eldest daughters daughter hit me with it, Okay,
I have I have like probably bouncy thoughts on this
track five. We have a lot of expectations for track five, yes,
and that is high expectations are kind of the ruiner
of all.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
Relationships, isn't that the truth?

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Let me tell you what. When Michael and I were
in premial counseling, I remember they said that drop all
your expectations of what you think a partner should be
and like whatever. So I think for track five, I
personally have a lot of high expectations because it's always
special to Taylor in some way.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Now, upon initially listening to that song, I was like,
this is cheesy, Cause now I get the point now
after like you know, tiktoking. But it's basically her saying,
you know, I've always been terminally unique, and then I

(38:10):
try to be cool and it's not cool enough, you know,
It's it's always just less than for y'all. I'm trying.
I'm too jeogy, I'm too cheesy. So I think the
point of her adding in those very cliche or not
millennial gen z words is to be a little sarcastic

(38:30):
in the slowness. Sure it doesn't mean I love it,
but I get it.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
Yeah. No, it's like I totally get what.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
I get it.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
I get what she's trying to do for me. It
just like it just doesn't feel. It doesn't feel. None
of this album really felt genuine to me. And I
don't know how to. I don't know how to. I
don't know if this is the first time I feel
like she's she is like on autopilot and she's just like,

(38:58):
this is what I do. This is these are the
songs that I write and like this and I'm going
to use these like current terms mhm, because it's what
I do. It's like in ever More Folklore or the
Lakes was on the Folklore, whichever one it was, and
she's like, you know, if there's if there's something, and
that there's no one around to tweet it, like the

(39:19):
first time you hear you like whoa, Yeah, but she
does that kind of shit.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Yeah she does. We've already said, bitch, I'll just label
it explicit. And we were talking about growers and showers
from the Yeah, she she is cheesy though.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
She is, and that's the thing we love about her.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
We love that she's just like so relatable in that sense.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
But the bad bee and the savage just doesn't land
for me.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Now, let me tell you what about eldest daughter. That
the second verse when she talks about being on the
trampoline of best friends, like, I don't expect you to
remember every story of my life, but didn't make you
think of me at all? Yeah, no it didn't. I
when I was in middle school, I went to my
friend's house. I was not allowed to jump on trampolines

(40:05):
without nets, yes, but my friend had one and I
she was in the neighborhood. I'm jumping. My dad told
me that morning, if you jump on a trampoline without
a net, you're gonna break your arm. It's happened that night.
So I felt personally seen in that moment.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
I'm like, yeah, this is this is about me.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
Those are those like meta moments where I'm like, does
she know who I am?

Speaker 3 (40:26):
You know? Is she trolling you?

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Is she trolling me? Is she a stan? Does she
listen to this podcast?

Speaker 3 (40:32):
If you are?

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Have you been said? The last month with no episodes,
I want.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
You to know that I love you deeply and I
would love to be a consultant. You don't even have
to pay me.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
Yeah, you just put my name in your album and
I'm good. I let's see what other ones. I love me.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
Look, what did you think about father Figure? I did
see a theory that like.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
It's about Scott Broshetta or yeah, what's his name?

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Charlie x c I and Scott today?

Speaker 3 (41:08):
Yeah, how it's like her talking him talking to her
and then her talking to him.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
Which I think if that's the case, like that's kind
of how Taylor writes. And I think that's a good
written song. Well written song, not good written.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
Good She's in that Travis Kelsey class.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
I know what's fun, it's.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
Ro It's very much, you know, wedding reception.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
I wish that. I wish that. It almost like sure
everyone loves a little raunch and it's like we're kind
of in the age of Sabrina Carpenter where like to
be I know, you know, over sexual is like cool
now where I kind of think some things are still
a little bit sacred. Do I want to know that

(41:51):
Travis Kelce.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
Is big redwood tree.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Redwood tree hard to see. I didn't know the Redwood Tree.
I didn't need to know that.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
We didn't need it.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
But knock on Wood, like the the concept of that
song with a bunch of superstitions.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
It's cool. The black Cat laughed, I stepped on the crack.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
I've knocked on wood. I'm knock on wood. And that's
very her, that's very her, and I now I will
bop my head off to that song. But I get
a little weird about okay.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
Because it's different than it was on Dress, you know,
like the sexuality, the sexuality is completely different Dress was.
It's like, why can't we be sexy that way?

Speaker 2 (42:30):
But it's like still romantic exactly, you know.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
What I mean? And that's my whole thing is like
the whole album feels like she's cheapened her brand and
for what.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
I can't say it.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
No, you don't have to, Yeah, you don't have to.
You do not have to agree, you don't even have
to comment on it. But that's that's the feeling that
I have when I hear the album as.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
A whole, which we expect that kind of writing from
a Sabrina Carpenter who.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
And Sabrina is doing it really well.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Let Sabrina Sabrina's best friend.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
It gets exhausting to me all the innu window, but
like it's still doing the thing. She's still doing that
thing that everybody's praising her for. Yeah, and it works
for her.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Does it kind of make you feel like that maybe
going to Sabrina, like she's actually really insecure.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
I think that now, I don't. I don't. I think Sabrina.
I think Sabrina's team found something that works. And she
is such a good actor. Yeah, and she is made
for this kind of industry, like she's been around forever.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
She really has. I had no idea she was a
Disney girl.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Oh yeah, Like the first time I remember, I was
driving down the road. This is probably like fifteen. How
you'll have to fact check me sixteen seventeen doesn't matter.
I'm driving. Spotify's like shuffling on music and then sue
Me comes on and I'm like, this song is incredible?
Who is this? Sabrina Carper never heard of her.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
She was kind of like so under the radar for
so long. She had to find it.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
My best friend Drew, who was doing a lot of
babysitting or in her life. She was like, oh, she's
a Disney girl, like she's actually really grateful, and that
was maybe on her second or third album, and then
it was years later she gets this espresso moment well, and.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
She got a lot of hype from Olivia Rodrigo calling
around driver. Oh right about that's kind of when her
name became like a household name or who's Olivia feuding with?
It was Sabriner.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
This loves for profit right stuff into my office.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah, anyways, I feel like Taylor's trying to sound a
little bit to Sabrina with Wood. I agree, but like whatever,
she's having fun whatever.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
But whatever, she's having fun.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
But whatever, she's having fun. And she is at the point,
like you said, where she can do whatever she wants.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
She can she has full license to do.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
So I love wish list.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
Yeah, when I will tell you, if I had a
drink in my mouth, I would have spit it when
I heard her say the drive away with the basketball hoop.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
But I but again I heard someone say, like, Taylor,
you don't need just to drive it with basketball hoop, you,
Taylor Swift, you can have a whole like full court
prespect there. Yeah, like stop acting like basketball hoop is
like you've made it.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
My friend and I were laughing about, like, no, we've
already the money that I've given you. I've paid for
that basketball.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Court, literally, the bleachers, all of it.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Put my name in that.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Yeah, the jerseys. You can have a whole team from
how much I've bought from you. But I love the
concept of that song, like.

Speaker 3 (45:30):
Yeah, no, it's so cute. Sonically it sounds so fun.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, I just want you.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
Yeah, it sounds like glitch.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
Oh yeah, I didn't put that together until now. I
like life of a show Girl. I know that you
think it could have been more, and I kind of
agree now that you've said that, like it totally could
have been more. But I find myself constantly singing it's sweet,
thank you for the lovely book.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
I've listened to this all the way through two and
a half times, which is if that says anything to you,
it's been out for four days.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
That's not enough. I know you.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
I know it's crazy, but I'm still singing parts in
my head. Yeah, like that's just.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
A thing that she will say. This is an album
where like it's stuck in your head, like last night,
Coco woke freaking baby, she woke up from she was
up from ten fifteen, She's so cute till eleven forty five,
just scream it. Kept going in there checking on her.
She's not she doesn't have a fever, she's not sick.
She's just screaming. And this is my good sleeper, Like

(46:32):
she sleeps great. I was pissed, okay, And the reason
I was pissed is because I could never fall back
asleep because I kept having these songs in my head
popping up. So I'm like laying there singing like and
I'm like, go to bed, go to bed, go back
to bed, fall back asleep. But that's what this album is.
It's just like it gets stuck in your head and
you're like, I'm not even sure which song I'm singing.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
It is me.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
They all kind of sound.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
It's making its place in there, yeah, sticking in there.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Yeah. And I don't think she wrote this album clearly
to do a tour and to have like an aristour moment.
If I'm guessing, I think that for her, she's going
to do exactly what she did with Aras tour, released
a bunch of albums and then years later do a
big tour like, I think she should take a break,
and the girl wants to be a wife and the mom.

(47:20):
According to Wishless, no.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
Of course, And I think this is what we're all
gearing up for anyway. You know. It's like you're coming
off with the biggest tour, you found this man. You
guys are engaged, you obviously want children. It's like, I
think we're all planning for that, right. It's like, yeah, Okay,
take some years off because your next album is going
to be your thirteenth, and I know that's going to

(47:41):
be a big deal that has to be there, and
so it's going to be like we might not hear
from her. I mean, we're obviously going to hear from her,
but we might not get new music from her in
the way that we're expected that we're conditioned to for
five ten years.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah, you know, oh don't say ten.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
It could be there. It could be, but she could
be doing like a Rihana moment.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Michael in the car this week and he was like,
I mean, if she wants kids, she should probably start trying.
Isn't she your age? I was like, damn, but but
it's true. But then I was like, she's Taylor Swift.
That girl froze her eggs at their prime. Oh yeah,
like her eggs are sitting on golden ice somewhere. She's fine.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
All right. I want to come back to my idea
of like if it had sounded the way that I
was picturing it. Right with the with the nightclub, you're
hearing her little feet on the on the stage, and
then imagine when you get to the movie theater. She's
done an entire visual album and it's following her around
like going on stage, backstage, you're seeing her like talk to.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Yourself in the mirror, Beyonce Lemonade.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Like Beyonce Lemonade, or I mean, Miley just did it
this summer, like she released something beautiful and she had
an entire visual experience. I didn't see that a song
or every every song but too. And it was in
theaters and it's like in hers. Hers was like eighty
percent there too, Like it could have been better. But
like Taylor, you have all of the money, all all

(49:00):
of the resources.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
And all the skills.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
You love directing, you love writing, you love and you
always say, whenever I'm writing songs, I think about how
they would be performed or like visualized right, So it's like,
give me that. Yeah, this whole Showgirl thing, you could
have this could you could have done something about a
curtain call, You could have done something about an encore,
about a grandsonale, about like about being an understudy, about

(49:23):
being in the chorus line, like feeling you're just anybody
else and not the star of the show. You know
what I mean. There's so many things that you could
have like extrapolated. Sorry sorry, Travis, it means like pull out. Yeah, yeah,
but you could have taken anything from this showgirl motif,
and then that would have been like a huge moment.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah, you're right, you're.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
Like, that would have been that would have been That
would have been a big, like cultural moment where everyone's like, holy,
holy crap. That was cool. I can't believe. I was
not expecting this from her. She just did this whole
tour now, this whole visual.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Yeah, and I think that the reason that, well, there's
probably way more reasons, but I think that she didn't
do that because this was very rush.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
It felt very much like oh I made music I
release Now. I'm not saying I agree with that, no, Yeah,
I know what you mean. But even the way that
she said she recorded this album like they were just
in Sweden on tour, like you know that they recorded
it fast, like there wasn't a lot of like fine tuning,
which maybe is why it's just like catchy and dancy
and fun.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
I agree, But I think that.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
What you're saying with the with having a visual representation
of every single song would be iconic.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
Wouldn't be so cool because it's like one of her
shorter albums too, twelve songs, twelve songs.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
She could totally do it, and she.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
Loves making videos. The other thing I was going to
say was being back with them. It almost makes you
wonder if she was kind of anticipating that the reception
wouldn't be like over the moon like positive, similar to
how reputation went.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
You know, yeah, because in the documentary, remember she didn't
get any Grammy nomination.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
No nominations. I just need to make a better album.
We're like, no, you don't. That was incredible.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Yeah, that was such a sad moment.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
I know, but you know what I mean, It's like
maybe she was also thinking this is kind of a
reputation moment part two, which I don't think is true.
I think on my study of the internet. It is,
but like, it's not for everybody. Yeah, I think there's many, many, many,
many million, millions and thousands of people that love this album.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
And like, yeah, I mean, regardless of what anyone thinks,
it's still going to be number one. Yeah, it's Taylor.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
It dethrowned K pop beamon hunters.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Don't even know what that is? What am I? Okay? Like,
I don't know. Am I officially old?

Speaker 3 (51:36):
Netflix is like this cartoon movie about girls.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Yeah, I have heard of it, but I have not
watched it yet. It's fun, Okay, well, all that to
say she could have done more, but expectations are the
death of relationships. Standards, So standards are expectations. So I
think it's still a fun album. I agree, and I
have a lot of fun listening to and.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
I think that I'm going to give it a little
bit of time, let the initial sting wear off, and
then I'm going to get back into it.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
This is going to be an album though, where most
of them are going to be singles on their radia.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
Yeah, I mean they're all ready for it. Yeah, Oh
I don't know, maybe they do. Do you listen to
the radio comment below?

Speaker 2 (52:23):
You're born for this.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
Let us know what.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
The last thing I have to say is, because we
already talked about her looking the best she's ever looked,
she did get a little too much cheek filler for that. Graham,
what's this guy's name?

Speaker 3 (52:35):
Graham Norton saw this lady on TikTok, who is like,
who does those things? Like does both talks and stuff.
She's like, I don't think this is all filler. I
think this might have just been like a rushed talks job,
but maybe they went a little too low under the
crows feet like all she's like giving all these things
and she's like, you know, I hate it for my
My thing is like if even if this is something

(52:56):
that happens, because she looked a little similar on that
red carp where she wore that yellow and black like
tartan corset top. Oh yeah, v yeah, her face like yeah,
kind of had the same look. And my thing is like,
why didn't why doesn't her team say like, hey, I
don't know if you know this, but your album's coming

(53:18):
on on October third, so we.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
Should do your best things fifty yes exactly, Like I
only pay three hundred dollars for botox and even I
know that exactly right.

Speaker 3 (53:28):
It's like, let's think about it a little bit, but.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Not trying to diss any woman's looks, but she she
also looked very tired in the sense of like she
was doing so many interviews in one day.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Yeah, oh my gosh, I can't imagine. That's the life
of a show girl.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
But you know, it's the life of a showgirl.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
And I could never I'm not built for it.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
I'm not. I'm in bed by a thirty.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
I think I could be.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
But you kind of are.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
Actually I kind of am.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
You're You're always doing something cool and new and somewhere different.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
I appreciate that. What does it feel like it all
the time? Whenever I start my podcast, I'll just like,
what are.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
You gonna do? The podcast? Just call it the life
of a show boy?

Speaker 3 (54:05):
That's gonna be opinions about things that don't matter that
no one asked for.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
You should do a podcast. He'd be great at podcasting, alright,
all right?

Speaker 3 (54:15):
Is that is that like step up one? Just saying
all right when people say that.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Yeah, all right, and I'll be your first guest.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Meta.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
We haven't spoken since let's just be real, we're not
going to speak until the next album releases.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
You know, I was thinking about that. I was walking
up the driveways, like, what if I just hung out
with you and Michael?

Speaker 2 (54:31):
It would be so fun.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Yeah, I got to know the kids.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
The way that Michael is so unbothered by our past,
oh yeah is iconic. Yess the best I told him
you were. I was like, you know, Wednesday, we might
do Wednesday night because this is before we got it
all figured out. And I was like, I'm probably just
gonna go to his house and you can watch the kids.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
He's like, all right, cool, Yeah, he doesn't care. God
bless the broken road, am I right?

Speaker 2 (54:54):
That led me straight to that man, truly. Okay, any
other final comments.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
If there's anybody out there who wants to re imagine
this album with me and like has all the tools
to make it, uh to like come up with those
audios and those visuals just as like a imagine. If
let me know, and.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
If anyone's listening to this and thinking that I changed
my stance on how I feel about this album because
of this man, you weren't listening. I'm just having a
healthy debate, which is something our country can't do anymore. So,
we are going to represent here and I will say
great points Taylor, and I agree with a lot of them.
I still love the album.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
You're still getting that showgirl tattooed?

Speaker 2 (55:40):
All right, listeners, I don't know when i'll be back
next if I'm being honest my mom, I'm still in Europe,
so I don't have a babysitter. We'll see, we'll see
when i'm back. A weird, it's getting dark.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
We'll talk about that. Yeah, fine, it'll be great.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Love you guys, thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
Love you, te babe.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Thanks for listening to Heart and Soult. If this episode
encouraged you in any way, please leave a review on
Apple Podcasts or wherever.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
You get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Talk to you next week.