July 2, 2025 • 39 mins
In this engaging conversation, Kathryn Benko and Rebecca George explore themes of faith, identity, and the challenges of waiting in life. Rebecca shares her journey as a pastor's wife, her experiences of longing, and the message behind her book 'You're Not Too Late.' The discussion emphasizes the importance of community, vulnerability, and turning to scripture for encouragement during times of waiting. Listeners are reminded that they are not alone in their struggles and that God is always at work in their lives.
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Follow me on Instagram:
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Sole Fitness @sole_fitness
Subscribe to our YouTube Channel and WATCH all episodes!
Follow Rebecca on Instagram: @rebeccageorgeauthor
Purchase her new book HERE!
Sign up for the Sole Online Training App!
Use coupon code 'SOLE20' for 20% off your first month!!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to the Heart and Soul podcast with Catherine Banco.
I'm on a mission to celebrate breakthrough, empowerment and shameless
living in the lives of women everywhere. Join me and
let's live unashamed together. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back
to Heart and Soul today. I am so excited to
be joined by Rebecca George, who is the founder of
(00:23):
Radical Radiance, which is a podcast community where listeners are
equipped to blend what they love with the Jesus who
makes them shine. Which I love that, by the way,
I love that little description of your podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
It's so good.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
But not only that, she's also a speaker and the
author of a new book called You're Not Too Late,
which I feel like we can all relate to, especially
as women feeling like we're behind. So Rebecca, thank you
so much for coming on the podcast today.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Oh Catherine, I'm so excited to be with you. Thank
you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, it's going to be great.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
You're a podcast where we're just talking about how she
has like a really legit mike, and so it's going
to sound hopefully good.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I hope so, because I edit these and I don't
know how to edit.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So sometimes my episodes sound great and sometimes they sound horrible.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So we shall see I have I'm optimistic about this
one though.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yes, So why don't you start by telling my listeners
a little bit more about who you are and what
you do?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, I would love to. Well, I'll tell you a
few of the hats I wear. You shared a good
bit of that a moment ago. But I am a
pastor's wife. My husband is the lead pastor of our
local church here in East Tennessee. If you can't tell
by my accent, you will pretty quickly. Local church ministry
is a huge part of our life. And then, as
you said, I have put out a couple of books.
My second one just came out a couple months ago,
(01:41):
called You're not too Late, Trusting God's timing in a
hurry up world. So I'm talking a lot about that
right now. That's taken up a lot of my time.
And I, as you said, am a podcaster. So I
host the show Radical Radiance. It's been going for about
five and a half years, where we have weekly conversations
that just point us back to what it looks like
to radiate the heart of Jesus and all that we
(02:02):
do in our life, our work, our marriages, our friendships,
all of those things. And I speak out on the
road a lot, so I would say, you know, by
and large, I love writing books, creating resources, having conversations
that just point us back to what it looks like
to radiate Jesus and all that we do. So that's
thirty thousand foot view of what Rebecca's up to.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I love it. We're going to get into the weeds
of it.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Why don't let's see my first I have so many questions,
But my first question is were you raised in the church?
Like was being a pastor's wife something that you like
not and it's not like you know who you're going
to marry, But was it, yeah, totally naturally where you
were like raised in the church and you kind of
like knew how to like take on that role, or
was it, oh, we're pastor church?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I think, yeah, that's a really interesting question, Catherine, because
I think it's a little bit of both. And I
did grow up in the church. I got saved when
I was ten years old, and I have been walking
with Jesus for twenty five years almost, which I'm so
grateful that that was my story and that I came
to Christ at a very young age. That said, I
grew up in a little bit of a legalistic, I
(03:08):
would say, church environment, and what I would say was
modeled maybe for me, maybe that's the best way to
say it. As a pastor's wife was very introverted, very quiet,
amazing women who had like three or four children, very young,
worked from the worked out of the home, either didn't
(03:30):
really have a large ministry role in their husband's ministry
and they were they were mom and it out, or
they like played the piano, right, like, very traditional role
was what I saw modeled. And not only do I
not play the piano, but I also don't have that
(03:51):
kind of personality. I've always been very career driven. My
husband and I do not have kids yet, we do
desire that for our family. But I just felt like
nothing about me fit the mold of what I knew
to be a pastor's wife. So it was really interesting. Actually,
when I started dating my husband, he was a single
lead pastor, which is actually pretty rare, and he was
(04:15):
pastoring a church we met many years earlier when we
were serving in the same church together, but when we
started dating, he was the lead pastor of a church
in South Mississippi, And that was a huge part of
our conversations as we were figuring out, like what our
life would look like once we got married, because we
were not the couple that like met in college at
young life and fell in love and got married at
(04:37):
twenty two and had their first baby at twenty four,
and like he was the youth guy that became the
exec pastor that became the lead pastor. Like I married
a lead pastor, you know what I mean. And so
it was a little bit of the like jumping in
the deep end of what ministry was going to be
like and how do we work as a team. And
I would, honestly Catherine still say we're figuring that out.
(04:58):
And I think that's that's huge part of marriage, like
whether you're married to a pastor or not, or your
life looks totally different than mine, figuring out like what
do you bring to the table, what do I bring
to the table, and how does God want to use
that as a as a team as we serve him together.
And we actually just had a conversation yesterday afternoon about that,
and so yeah, I would say it is not something
(05:22):
I grew up thinking like, man, I'd really love to
marry a pastor one day, if anything that was opposite. Yeah,
And I say that just like really transparently. And it's
one of those both and things of life right Like
it is one of the hardest things I've ever done.
And I love getting to walk alongside my husband and
(05:43):
get to have a front row seat and watching him
live out his calling. And I hear every ceremony preaches
before anybody else does. I get to sit in his office,
and I've seen him lead people to Christ like what joy.
And there's a lot of heartbreak that comes with it.
There's a lot of challenges that come with it, and
so it's very both and that's probably more than you wanted.
(06:04):
But that's what I would say.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I love detail. Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I think that, you.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Know, growing up, I had this like picture of like
maybe maybe just as a young like middle school, high school,
or I had this picture of women who love Jesus
were kind of like all meek, yeah, very submissive and
like there's like nothing wrong with those trades at all.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
But I'm psychotic, Like I'm so loud.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I've always been like really driven and just kind of
like out there. And so I also didn't get married
I mean in the South, like getting married late, which
I was late was twenty.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Nine, okay, and I didn't get married.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I was twenty eight. So yeah. Similarly, it does not
feel like so old like so growing up because oh
I was like a hundred yeah, because especially growing up
in the church, it feels as if, like you said,
like you meet your person in high school or yah,
and then you graduate and then you get married. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
And so that was a lot of my friends stories
was like they got they found their person young and
got married young, and I was like, where's my person?
And I had this like insecurity for a very long
time of like maybe I'm just not the type of
Christian woman that men want to marry because I'm loud
and because I'm like.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
A little more just.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I don't know what the word I would use to
describe it out like I don't know, yeah bold, like yeah,
the right words to use right now, but just not
what you would think anyways, And then I ended up
marrying someone who is the meek one, you know what
I mean, And we been figure out really well, like
he's like a very much of like a silent thinker
(07:44):
and like he like really thinks before he speaks, and
I'm like the opposite.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
But it's a good balance.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
All that to say, kind of correlating with your book
is if you feel if you're a woman listening to
this and you kind of feel like I'm like not
I'm still single because and you've put this label or
reason on why, like your person is going to like
be the best like Yang Ti or Yang one hundred percent,
and the gifts and the personality that God has given
(08:13):
you are like on purpose, you know, like they're not.
You don't need to hold back who you are just
because you feel like you don't like compare to some
other woman in the church or whatever that.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Is, ah one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, So you become a pastor's wife, you moved to
Tennessee or you're from like, yeah, so our.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Story is interesting. I was in Knoxville when I met
my husband, really reconnected with my husband, started dating him,
and so when we got married, I moved from Tennessee
to South Mississippi where we were there serving together for
about three and a half years. Through COVID actually and
uh summer of twenty twenty three, God actually moved us
(08:56):
back to East Tennessee, and so we would both consider
this area home and really felt led to come back here,
which I'm so grateful that God opened the door for that. So, yeah,
we we have went through a lot of change together
in our first six years of marriage, a move, a
couple moves for me, one move for him, and a
ton of change in our church in Mississippi there and
(09:17):
then leaving and coming here, And so that's I would
say change has been a major through line kind of
of our first few years of marriage, which is something
that I think grows you a lot closer together and
is incredibly hard, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, you're like, oh, I didn't want to have to
go through this to learn this.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Okay, so your book, You're not too late. I was
immediately drawn when like we connected via email to the time.
Yeah yeah, because I feel it's something that like I
just discussed, like I always felt, you know, I was
too late to the game when it comes to like
this constructed timeline that I had created. So would you
kind of go into detail about what you hope or
(10:02):
the message you hope that people get out of reading
your book?
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yeah, totally, Well, I'll back up a little bit and
give you kind of the why, because I always think
that's interesting. So my first book was all about what
are your gifts and talents and how are you using
them to the glory of God. It was called Do
the Thing, Gospel centered, goals, gumption, and Grace for the
go getter girl. So it was a very fun book
to write, and it was a very fun book to
(10:26):
talk about. I was in a two book contract with
my publisher, so I got on the other side of
that first launch and started kind of dreaming with the
Lord about what was next. And honestly, Catherine, at the beginning,
I thought it might be a book on singleness, because,
like you, I got married in the Southern culture tradition
later in life than most of my peers, and I
(10:48):
felt like I had a lot to say to single women.
I'd been a bridesmaid twelve times when I married Dustin
and had just done a lot of the like show
up for your people when they're getting the thing you want, yeah,
And I felt like I had a lot to say
about that. And so the more I prayed through it
and just talk to other women in my life, the
more I began to recognize like, oh, this thread of
(11:10):
longing and waiting is so much bigger than just singleness. Yeah,
because I married Dustin and the reality of that is, like,
my longing for singleness was fulfilled, and I'm so grateful
that I get to walk alongside him and have a
ministry partner and all of that. So like all of
that dream came true, that longing was fulfilled. But now
longing in my heart just looks different than it did
(11:32):
six years ago. Right, So, whether it's kind of the
relational piece of that you're desiring to get married or
have children or restore a broken relationship, or it's more
vocational like I feel led to make a career, pitvot
or go start a business or get involved in a ministry.
The challenges that accompany those longings are actually pretty similar.
(11:53):
They look the same. Many times. It's things like despair
and like will this ever happen for me? It's doubt
we'll I'd ever provide that for me. It's comparison and
envy that's I think a massive one for women right now,
Resentment like I've waited so long and watching other people
get to experience that has caused kind of the bitterness
(12:14):
to grow in my heart, and now it's turned into resentment.
And so what I became passionate about is having a
different kind of conversation about our longing, Like how do
we live in the midst of brokenness and have real
emotions about the things that we desire that many times
are God given, like the desire for kids, the desire
for marriage, And how do we be human in that?
(12:35):
And we're going to experience fear, We're going to experience insecurity,
But where do we turn when we do? And so
my hope is that readers walk away not necessarily like, oh,
I've kicked fear to the curb forevermore and I'm never
going to struggle with that again, because We're human and
we will. But when we do, where do I turn?
Like is my heart so hidden in the word that
(12:57):
like I can quickly recognize that and it back to
truth when I am struggling in that way. So all
of our challenges, I think in the middle of longing
look maybe a little different, but I think a lot
of the challenges are the same. And so no matter
what kind of longing that you're experiencing, my hope is
that you find some encouragement there.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, and you're absolutely right, Like, no matter what it
is you're longing for, whether it be a partner or
a child or a career change, the feelings are all
kind of similar, the doubt, the trying to remain hopeful.
But the comparison, like all of that is like so
real and so relatable. Whether you're waiting for something that
(13:39):
someone else isn't waiting for or vice versa, like you
can all relate on the feelings that come with it.
Is there something in your life? I mean, I know
you said you wanted to originally write on singleness, which
kind of led to this, But is there something currently
in your life right now as you are writing this
that kind of gave you the I guess inspiration to
(13:59):
encourage others, Like, is there something that you're currently waiting
for that kind of pushed you to write this book?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Yeah? Totally. I mean, I think the most obvious one
is having kids. Right I'm in my thirties and so
I'm very much in that season where all my friends
are having babies, which is so sweet and awesome and
just super transparently. The first few years of our marriage
were really hard, if I'm honest, Like we got married
ten months before COVID started, and so the first year
(14:30):
of our marriage was not only me leaving everything I'd
ever known in Tennessee to move almost six hundred miles
away from my friends and family to become a pastor's wife,
which there's joy in that and awesome things that come
along with that, and there were great challenges. The culture
we were ministering in was really challenging. It was a
very small town, so I felt like I was in
(14:50):
the fishbowl all the time. And then we were hit
with a pandemic, and so the first few years of
our marriage were actually pretty jar and I cannot fathom
adding another human to the mix in the middle of that.
So I feel like now not to overshare, but like
on the other side of COVID, we're kind of in
(15:11):
this like who are we? Who do we want to
be when we grow up? Kind of like, let's have
the fun we did not frankly get to have in
the first few years, and kind of sit with that desire.
We definitely want children, but we have not. We've wanted
to have like the right foundation in our marriage in
all fairness before we bring that into the picture. And
(15:35):
so I would say in very real time as I
was processing through all of these different chapters and topics
that I mentioned a minute ago, I'm wrestling through it
in my own life, like I kind of wrote about
it in retrospective, Like a lot of the stories you'll
read will be either somebody I walked alongside in a
challenge like that, or my own season of singleness and
(15:57):
career challenges and things like that. And uh, yeah, there's
there's definitely that huge piece of longing. I'm a big
fan of that term, like you write from your scars,
not your wounds, right, so you will. You will not
hear me talk a lot about that current challenge of
longing because I don't know that I could write about
(16:18):
it in a way that would probably be the version
of it I would like the world would need to
know right now, right because me and the Lord of
processing through that. But that was definitely the one that
was heaviest on my heart as I was writing the book.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
For sure, I've never heard that quote before, you write
from your scars, not your wounds.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
I feel as if what people need to know is
if you feel like everyone in your life, especially via
social media, has everything you've ever wanted and you're waiting,
they don't like every what everyone this side of heaven
is longing for something because totally and so like you said,
(17:00):
like it went from longing for a husband and now
longing for a child. Like the longing just shifts into
a different category. But it's always like, we're never quite
fully fulfilled here because this is in our home, and
so we're always going to be longing for something. And
so if you're like scrolling through social media and feel
as if you don't have what this person has and
(17:22):
they have everything you've ever wanted, there's something that they're
longing for as well.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
It's just typically not shared on social media. Person, So
just hear that. If you're listening to this and you're like,
I'm the one in the waiting and everyone else has
what I want.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Everyone's longing for something, it just shifts, like you said,
to something different, different categories.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Yeah, so good if you.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Actually no, let me go back. What Let's say someone's
listening here and they are longing for something and this
really resonates with them, what are some pieces in scripture
that you would.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Point them to to give them a little more faith
and hope in what's to come.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Yeah, yeah, well I'll give you a really practical one
because I think so many times when we're longing for
something and that season is pretty prolonged, what we tend
to do, especially if you're listening and you you grew
up in the South or maybe you live in the South,
and you notice about our culture like we're just always
we're good, we're fine, but we're busy, but we're good,
(18:24):
and we just kind of don't really confront a lot
of conflict and whatever. What we tend to do is
apply that same principle to our relationship with God. Right,
I'm maybe unwilling to just really raw go before the
Lord and say like this is where my heart is,
like would you meet me in the middle of that?
And I've actually been so encouraged by reading the Psalms
(18:46):
in the middle of my own longing because you'll find
so many examples of David and other Psalmna's just crying
out to the Lord in the middle of their despair
and they're wondering how it will work out, and they're saying,
like how long, o Lord, will you know until you
show up and like make a difference here or whatever,
And so I think that has been such an encouragement
(19:07):
to my heart. But a really practical thing that I
talk about in the book that has helped me so
much is buried right into Psalm one thirty nine, so
verses twenty three and twenty four. Many of us are
probably familiar with this passage, but the psalm that says,
search my heart, Oh God, try me and know my
anxious thoughts, and if there'd be a grievous way in me,
lead me in the way everlasting. And I've actually come
(19:30):
back to that prayer a lot in my own season
of waiting, and we call it the search me God
prayer in You're not too Late, and we come back
to it at the end of every chapter to kind
of just ask the Lord, like, would you search my heart?
Would you examine my heart? And however I'm thinking about this,
or however I'm I'm seeing this from my limited perspective,
(19:51):
would you reveal to me my anxieties about it the
way that I'm thinking about it that's contradictory to your perspective,
And would you point me back to truth? And so
so I actually go there a lot when I feel
like I'm spiraling in the waiting and I don't know
what's next, and I'm trying to trust God, like I
will just ask God to examine my heart and to
point me back towards truth. And I think more than
(20:12):
any other encouragement I could give, I would encourage you
to go to the Lord about whatever you're longing for
and not make it one of those things like we
do a lot in our earthly relationships where we just
kind of shove it under the rug, We just kind
of placate ourselves with like some other thing to keep
us busy, Like, actually go to him and be honest
(20:33):
before him about what you're struggling with. He can handle it.
He can handle it, and he actually already knows what's
in your heart and in the condition of your heart
and wants to meet you there like so badly. So
if we just are willing to do that, I think
that's a huge part of also protecting our hearts from bitterness. Yeah,
because that's what grows in our hearts when we're unwilling
(20:54):
to confront what's going on. So that would be my advice.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
That's so true.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I also just for my own personal story, and it's
all throughout scripture as well, like that's I love the
psalms too, because David, to me is so relatable.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, just like he is me, like I am him.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Like he's like happy one second with God and then
the next he's like begging God for something and living
in despair, and just like that's so real and I
love that that's like portrayed in scripture. And like the
cool thing about that verse search, search my heart and
know me is he already.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Knows our hearts better than we do.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Like I don't know if if you're the same way,
but sometimes life gets so busy and monotonous, almost like
you just kind of do It's almost like Groundhog's Day
sometimes where you kind of going through the same steps
every day, and sometimes like even two weeks ago, I
was at the beach with friends with all the kids,
and one of the moms asked me how I was
(21:48):
doing that for the first time in a long time,
I go, I don't really know, Like I have not
thought about it, because sometimes you're so busy just like
getting through your tasks or taking care of other people,
that you don't actually know how you're doing and you
don't reflect on that. So that prayer is so important
because it one, God already knows, like he's already searched
(22:09):
you when he knows you, but it reveals to you
maybe how something that you're feeling that you didn't even
know you were feeling. And so it's it's like a
wisdom eye opener, I guess. Yeah, and so that I
love that verse too, And it's kind of like a
hard prayer to pray because you're like I almost like.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Don't want to know.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah, like to be honest, like something's brushing it under
the rugue like you said, is like the easy way
to go. But in return, like you said, it creates
that bitterness and that comparison and envy and all that.
So that is a great verse all of Psalm one
thirty nine. It's just like, yeah, does it get anything?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Totally? No, I love that passage.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, it's so so good.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Okay, I noticed that in your book there's like some
like discussion questions and prompts.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
For the reasons.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
How is it like interactive for them? Is kind of
dive deeper into that?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Yeah, yeah, I would love to. I love, love love
that my publisher was willing to do this for this
message because I did not feel like waiting and longing
and trusting God in the middle of whatever that looks
like in your life. Could just be a book where
we just like read it, put it on our nightstand,
and just like moved on. I really felt like we
(23:28):
needed to dig in and ask God to search our
hearts back to that Psalm one thirty nine passage, and
so I was so grateful that they let me include
sections at the end of every chapter where I give
you scripture to reflect on that kind of ties back
to what we talked about in the chapter. There are
discussion questions, prayer prompts, and we actually also did a
(23:49):
video series that goes with every chapter. So in the
introduction of the book, there's like a little QR code
that you scan and you can actually get access to
an eleven session series for me for free, which I
love because if you're going through, Yeah, if you're going
through the book alone, I think sometimes when you're talking
about something this weighty, you need somebody to like hold
your hand and walk alongside you. So if you're going
(24:10):
through it alone, know that you have a little jolt
of encouragement from me at the beginning of every chapter.
And if you're doing it in a group, like, first
of all, I love discipleship. I love sitting with women
and learning more about God's word. I was discipling women
on my college condo living room floor long before I
was writing books and speaking and podcasting and everything we
(24:32):
do now, and i'm and I still am passionate about that.
And so I love the idea of women coming together
and doing this study in a group. And my goal
actually was not to have like thirty to forty minute
long teachings that you know, take up the whole hour
of your small group. I really just wanted to pop
in and say like, hey, here's what I want you
(24:52):
to know. I want to encourage you as you guys
get started, and it be kind of a jumping off
point for discussion. So the videos are pretty short, they're
like five to eight minutes after each chapter. And so
it's a good way to kind of open up your
small group, your book club, whatever you're hosting with other women.
And I think that's the book in its best form,
is doing it with others. So it's formatted in a
(25:14):
way where it can be really helpful. I think both ways,
doing it alone if that's more your jam, or getting
a group of friends together to do it together. All
the resources are there.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, I love that, And I'm assuming most of your
readers are women, and I'm also I work with only women,
and so it's not hard to get women talking.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
No, wow, absolutely not give.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Us one question.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
And we've got a whole hour community group going on.
You need a ton of discussion questions. We just need
something to like get the conversation started in the totally
people can digest and also like unpack things with others
through this book is like so huge because again, like
how many books have you read? Like you mentioned you
(26:00):
just like kind of read it and it's like, yeah,
check it off your list and then goes back into
your night saying you don't even really remember like how
it impacted you. So the digging is is definitely crucial
with reading a book. What is a really Your book's out, like.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, it came out April first.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Okay, okay, have you had any really cool like testimonials
or feedback from someone or readers and if so, is
there one you'd like to share?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Oh? Yeah, yeah, confidentially, like the stories that people bring
to you about like hey, I've been waiting ten years
to have a baby, and like somebody needed to write
this book and walk alongside me in the pain and
grief of that, and like thank you for writing it.
Or a girl that is in our book club. I'm
(26:51):
walking through the book in a book club this summer,
and one of the ladies is in her late thirties
and she's still single and just still waiting on God
best for her and still like so boldly desires that
and getting to walk alongside her has been like such
a joy. And so the thing about a book like
this is this is this is not the like singles
(27:16):
and doubles like little like oh this was encouraging or
this was whatever, Like these are people's deepest desires of
their heart. So it's such a like tender place to
get to speak into and that is not lost on me.
Like every story I hear is weighty, right, and I
just feel so humbled and honored to get to be
(27:38):
a part of that, Like it's I think, a really
important conversation. And so I'm just continually like, Lord, thank you,
like thank you for letting me be a part of
these people's stories and like get a glimpse into how
you're working in their lives and what that looks like
even when we're not getting the thing we want, and
getting to speak into that never be lost on me.
(28:01):
So I'm just really grateful.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, that is a huge gift. And also like if
you're listening to this and like I said earlier, you
feel like you're the only one more often than not,
like people just want someone to take the initial step
of vulnerability. So whether that be like asking a hard
question to a friend or presenting a prayer request to
(28:23):
a friend that maybe you haven't said out loud. Like
found through my thirty six years of life that when
I share something, even though I might feel nervous prior
to sharing it and a little anxious, like it's always
received with either me too, same like, same girl me.
I struggle with that too. Yeah, just so reassuring because
you feel seen, you feel like understood, where like so
(28:46):
much of walking through alonging alone is like the hardest
part for me is like feeling misunderstood when really nobody knows,
like you haven't allowed someone to walk through that with you,
even God sometimes Yeah, and then also like asking one
ques question like we were talking about earlier, can really
allow you to dive deeper with someone that you thought
you might already be deep with it, like just it
(29:09):
just creates community in such a like a real way,
and it's so raw. It's so easy to just ask
one question or to just share one thing. It's just
the leading up to it that feels like anxious. You
feel anxious and maybe a little scared or nervous, but
it's so worth it because the conversations that it creates
are just like incredible and life changing and life giving
(29:30):
for you. Yeah, I'm so grateful, and you know, like
I I can relate to you and the waiting for
a child, like we had a very tough time getting
pregnant staying pregnant and I was older. Yeah, I'm using
air quotes like for you know, one what the doctors
say your biological clock is and two what the you know,
(29:54):
society says, and so like there are ways also for
you to like protect your hearts in that longing phase.
Like one thing that worked for me and it's like
it might sound harsh is like I would sometimes mute
people on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Oh that's not harsh, who were like.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Getting what I wanted? And yeah, I felt like.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
What it did was it created like negative thoughts in
my head instead of encouraging, and like the beautiful thing
about the mute button is they don't know, No whant
to protect your heart a little bit if muting even
if it's like a best friend, if that makes you
feel a little more protective, that's part of the search
me God and know my heart is like you need
to know, like what maybe triggers you.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
To push away from God or push towards God, or
push away from people or push towards people, and like
create healthy boundaries around that.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
What are some ways that you would encourage someone to
create those healthy boundaries when you're in the season of waiting.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yeah, yeah, I love the mute button. I love that
you shared. I think that's a very practical one. Sometimes
it requires us to be a little more ruthless on
our part than even the mute button in taking breaks
from social Yeah, like dare I say that, because what
scrolling mindlessly on our phones is doing to our brains
(31:16):
is really destructive first of all, like not only just
related to the thing that you're longing for, but just
generally we're addicted to our phones, Like, let's just all
be honest, and so taking time away can be really helpful. Also,
I think in addition to going before the Lord and
just being really honest about your longing, we'll all bump
(31:37):
up against opportunities for us to have to navigate somebody
else getting the thing we want. Like a really easy
example is a baby shower.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Right.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
So, let's say you're the one who's walking through infertility
or you know, maybe you're not even married yet, and
you're like, man, I don't even have the right guy
like I, but I'm one desiring to be a wife
and a mom. Like that feels like so many hoops
to jump through to get to the thing that I desire.
If you're kind of spiraling there number one going before
the Lord and saying like, man, I've got this baby
(32:07):
shower next weekend. I love this friend. I want to
show up for her, and I recognize that the blessing
that you've given in her life is not to the
exclusion of how you're at work in my life. And
I know that's true, But my heart does not feel
that today. God, so like, I need you to grant
me the joy in you that like does not feel
(32:28):
like it exists today in my heart. Would you enable
me by your strength because I can't do this on
my own. To show up well and to show up
with joy for this friend and be able to hold both, like,
let me deal with the grief that accompanies me having
to go to this baby shower with a desire in
my heart. I can do some of that work before
I walk in the door. Yeah, so that my heart
(32:48):
isn't just like slapped in the face by like the
envy in comparison that I feel and then enable me
to show up with joy and celebrate her. And so
the more we practice that and get repsit that, I think,
the more comfortable will begin to feel with holding both.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
You know, And you might find while you're confronting God
about that is maybe the best thing for you is
to not go.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And that's okay.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Yeah, And that's okay, And like it could be like
obviously later so she's not overthinking it, but it could
be after where you have a conversation with that friend
and say like, I'm so sorry I could I didn't come.
I'm so happy for you, like you have this beautiful
blessing and thank God for that, But for me, it
just I just need to kind of protect my heart
in that. And so would you pray for me, as
(33:36):
you know, you're kind of getting the thing that I want.
And please know that I'm not like desiring to like
pull back from you as a friend. This is just
like the season I'm in. I just needed to kind
of like protect my heart. Those conversations go a long
way too, especially just like with someone that you're very
close with.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Totally. I also think there can be there can be
a happy medium in that too. A lot of shower
are drop in right now, and so I'm a huge
fan of the like, hey, I have a full day,
but like I just wanted to come give you a
hug and drop off your gift. I'm so excited for you.
And it could be a like fifteen minute thing where
you like show up and you celebrate them. But like
(34:16):
you don't have to sit in the like everybody's writing
down what they got, who it's from, for two and
a half hours while she unwraps all the gifts, Like
that's a lot for your heart, but you can stop
buy and give her a hug, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
So.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
I think sometimes we think in extremes, and sometimes the
extreme version is what our hearts need and we just
need to not go. But there's there's also happy mediums. Yeah, like, sure,
sometimes I might have the energy to show up for
two and a half hours. Sometimes like I got a
hug and I got like five minutes of showing up
with Joy and that's all my heart can do. But
I do want to show up for her, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah, it doesn't have to be You're right, it doesn't
have to be like one extreme or the other. Yeah,
definitely be a happy medium for sure. Okay, I have
four questions that I ask every guest at the end
of the episode. Okay, I don't tell them on purpose.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
So I love it.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Let's get Let's get into those four questions, and then
you can give my listeners the best place to follow
you and connect with you after this. So first question
is what is something that you're currently obsessed with right now? Oh,
it could be like anything from like a food to
a TV show to a book to something.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yeah, I'm obsessed with sunshine, Like it is so pretty
here in East Tennessee right now, and like I'm really
not a huge summer girl, to be honest, It's just
not my favorite season. However, I've sat and like done this,
like have conversations like this and get this book out
in the world for the last like six months. So
I am just loving Vitamin D and being outside like
(35:42):
any chance I get. So that's that's the thing I'm
obsessed with.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, it is so brutally hot where we are right now.
And yeah, be the biggest summer girl. Like, especially when
I was single or like, had no kids, I was like,
Summer's the best.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yeah. I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Having these kids though, man, and they just want to
be outside all day and they want to be held
and they want I'm ripping and sweat by like eight am. Yeah,
I'm like, I know, Okay, I don't think I'm a
summer person anymore.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, yeah, I think I'm a fall girl. I love fall.
Fall is my favorite for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Okay, next question is what's something that you're really looking
forward to in the rest of this year twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Oh yeah, we have not vacationed yet. The Georgias have
not vacationed yet, and so I am really looking forward
to like a full week plus of just totally unplugging,
Like I'm going to be pretty ruthless about like notifications
on my phone, being off social, my laptop will not
be with me. I need that kind of vacation. And
(36:43):
so that's the thing, Like when you said the question,
that's what bubbled up in my heart because I think
we just really need a break. So I'm looking forward
to that.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yeah, for sure, I hope that you get a great vacation.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Next question is what is something that you really love
about yourself right now? It doesn't have to be like physical.
In fact, I prefer if it's not. Yeah, the character
that you really love.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
You know, last week, I had to have a really
hard conversation and I called a friend afterwards and I said,
I feel like the Holy Spirit gave me the words
for that and it went really well, and like I
moved through the conversation fine, But I'm not sure that
I had the tools like emotionally or like the conflict
(37:32):
resolution tool, Like I don't know that I would have
had that same conversation five years ago. So I'm grateful
for how the Lord has grown me in that way.
Like I grew up in a pretty conflict avoidant culture.
So it actually, although I have a big, bold personality
(37:54):
when it comes to conflict, that's actually a really challenging
area for me. And it's in the area where I
feel like I've grown and figured out how to like
gracefully take up space when it's necessary and those types
of things. So that might seem like a silly one,
but that's an area of growth for me that I'm
great proud of.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, a great one.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
I love that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
My last question is if you could leave a post
it note on my listener's like mirror computer today with
just like a little piece of encouragement, what would it say.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
I mean, this is a give me but the title
of my book, I would say, you're not too late,
like you are not but like truly I say, I
make this statement in the introduction of the book. I
say this book is for the hopefuls, the almost but
not yet, the crushed in defeat, the stunned by a
lack of progress, and the weary woman ready to hang
up for Jersey. And I think that's a lot of
(38:45):
us in some regard in our life. And if we
would just look up and realize, like God is still
at work, he is still on the throne, he is
still working in your life in a way that you
don't see the full vantage point of and you are
not too late for your life. Like that is what
I would want people to hear.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I love it. I love it so much.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Okay, Rebecca, what is the best place for my listeners
or where's the best place for my listeners to connect
with you totally?
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I'm the most active over on Instagram. My handle is
Rebecca George Author. I'm a Cca Rebecca, so that's easy
to remember and you can grab the book. You're not
too late, trusting God's timing in a hurry up world.
Wherever you liked by books, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Christian Book,
all the places.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Amazing and listeners, I will put those links in the
show notes so that it's easy for you to buy
that book and to follow Rebecca on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Rebecca, thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
I love what you're doing and I'm excited for more
testimonies to come from.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
All of your writing.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Thanks Catherine.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
All Right, listeners, I will talk to you next week. Bye.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Thanks for listening to Heart and Soul. If this episode
encouraged you in any way, please leave a review on
Apple Podcasts or wherever.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
You get to your podcast. Talk to you next week.
You're listening to the Heart and Soul podcast with Catherine Banco.
I'm on a mission to celebrate breakthrough, empowerment and shameless
living in the lives of women everywhere. Join me and
let's live unashamed together. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back
to Heart and Soul today. I am so excited to
be joined by Rebecca George, who is the founder of
(00:23):
Radical Radiance, which is a podcast community where listeners are
equipped to blend what they love with the Jesus who
makes them shine. Which I love that, by the way,
I love that little description of your podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
It's so good.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
But not only that, she's also a speaker and the
author of a new book called You're Not Too Late,
which I feel like we can all relate to, especially
as women feeling like we're behind. So Rebecca, thank you
so much for coming on the podcast today.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Oh Catherine, I'm so excited to be with you. Thank
you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, it's going to be great.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
You're a podcast where we're just talking about how she
has like a really legit mike, and so it's going
to sound hopefully good.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I hope so, because I edit these and I don't
know how to edit.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So sometimes my episodes sound great and sometimes they sound horrible.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So we shall see I have I'm optimistic about this
one though.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yes, So why don't you start by telling my listeners
a little bit more about who you are and what
you do?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, I would love to. Well, I'll tell you a
few of the hats I wear. You shared a good
bit of that a moment ago. But I am a
pastor's wife. My husband is the lead pastor of our
local church here in East Tennessee. If you can't tell
by my accent, you will pretty quickly. Local church ministry
is a huge part of our life. And then, as
you said, I have put out a couple of books.
My second one just came out a couple months ago,
(01:41):
called You're not too Late, Trusting God's timing in a
hurry up world. So I'm talking a lot about that
right now. That's taken up a lot of my time.
And I, as you said, am a podcaster. So I
host the show Radical Radiance. It's been going for about
five and a half years, where we have weekly conversations
that just point us back to what it looks like
to radiate the heart of Jesus and all that we
(02:02):
do in our life, our work, our marriages, our friendships,
all of those things. And I speak out on the
road a lot, so I would say, you know, by
and large, I love writing books, creating resources, having conversations
that just point us back to what it looks like
to radiate Jesus and all that we do. So that's
thirty thousand foot view of what Rebecca's up to.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I love it. We're going to get into the weeds
of it.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Why don't let's see my first I have so many questions,
But my first question is were you raised in the church?
Like was being a pastor's wife something that you like
not and it's not like you know who you're going
to marry, But was it, yeah, totally naturally where you
were like raised in the church and you kind of
like knew how to like take on that role, or
was it, oh, we're pastor church?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I think, yeah, that's a really interesting question, Catherine, because
I think it's a little bit of both. And I
did grow up in the church. I got saved when
I was ten years old, and I have been walking
with Jesus for twenty five years almost, which I'm so
grateful that that was my story and that I came
to Christ at a very young age. That said, I
grew up in a little bit of a legalistic, I
(03:08):
would say, church environment, and what I would say was
modeled maybe for me, maybe that's the best way to
say it. As a pastor's wife was very introverted, very quiet,
amazing women who had like three or four children, very young,
worked from the worked out of the home, either didn't
(03:30):
really have a large ministry role in their husband's ministry
and they were they were mom and it out, or
they like played the piano, right, like, very traditional role
was what I saw modeled. And not only do I
not play the piano, but I also don't have that
(03:51):
kind of personality. I've always been very career driven. My
husband and I do not have kids yet, we do
desire that for our family. But I just felt like
nothing about me fit the mold of what I knew
to be a pastor's wife. So it was really interesting. Actually,
when I started dating my husband, he was a single
lead pastor, which is actually pretty rare, and he was
(04:15):
pastoring a church we met many years earlier when we
were serving in the same church together, but when we
started dating, he was the lead pastor of a church
in South Mississippi, And that was a huge part of
our conversations as we were figuring out, like what our
life would look like once we got married, because we
were not the couple that like met in college at
young life and fell in love and got married at
(04:37):
twenty two and had their first baby at twenty four,
and like he was the youth guy that became the
exec pastor that became the lead pastor. Like I married
a lead pastor, you know what I mean. And so
it was a little bit of the like jumping in
the deep end of what ministry was going to be
like and how do we work as a team. And
I would, honestly Catherine still say we're figuring that out.
(04:58):
And I think that's that's huge part of marriage, like
whether you're married to a pastor or not, or your
life looks totally different than mine, figuring out like what
do you bring to the table, what do I bring
to the table, and how does God want to use
that as a as a team as we serve him together.
And we actually just had a conversation yesterday afternoon about that,
and so yeah, I would say it is not something
(05:22):
I grew up thinking like, man, I'd really love to
marry a pastor one day, if anything that was opposite. Yeah,
And I say that just like really transparently. And it's
one of those both and things of life right Like
it is one of the hardest things I've ever done.
And I love getting to walk alongside my husband and
(05:43):
get to have a front row seat and watching him
live out his calling. And I hear every ceremony preaches
before anybody else does. I get to sit in his office,
and I've seen him lead people to Christ like what joy.
And there's a lot of heartbreak that comes with it.
There's a lot of challenges that come with it, and
so it's very both and that's probably more than you wanted.
(06:04):
But that's what I would say.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I love detail. Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I think that, you.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Know, growing up, I had this like picture of like
maybe maybe just as a young like middle school, high school,
or I had this picture of women who love Jesus
were kind of like all meek, yeah, very submissive and
like there's like nothing wrong with those trades at all.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
But I'm psychotic, Like I'm so loud.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I've always been like really driven and just kind of
like out there. And so I also didn't get married
I mean in the South, like getting married late, which
I was late was twenty.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Nine, okay, and I didn't get married.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I was twenty eight. So yeah. Similarly, it does not
feel like so old like so growing up because oh
I was like a hundred yeah, because especially growing up
in the church, it feels as if, like you said,
like you meet your person in high school or yah,
and then you graduate and then you get married. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
And so that was a lot of my friends stories
was like they got they found their person young and
got married young, and I was like, where's my person?
And I had this like insecurity for a very long
time of like maybe I'm just not the type of
Christian woman that men want to marry because I'm loud
and because I'm like.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
A little more just.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I don't know what the word I would use to
describe it out like I don't know, yeah bold, like yeah,
the right words to use right now, but just not
what you would think anyways, And then I ended up
marrying someone who is the meek one, you know what
I mean, And we been figure out really well, like
he's like a very much of like a silent thinker
(07:44):
and like he like really thinks before he speaks, and
I'm like the opposite.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
But it's a good balance.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
All that to say, kind of correlating with your book
is if you feel if you're a woman listening to
this and you kind of feel like I'm like not
I'm still single because and you've put this label or
reason on why, like your person is going to like
be the best like Yang Ti or Yang one hundred percent,
and the gifts and the personality that God has given
(08:13):
you are like on purpose, you know, like they're not.
You don't need to hold back who you are just
because you feel like you don't like compare to some
other woman in the church or whatever that.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Is, ah one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, So you become a pastor's wife, you moved to
Tennessee or you're from like, yeah, so our.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Story is interesting. I was in Knoxville when I met
my husband, really reconnected with my husband, started dating him,
and so when we got married, I moved from Tennessee
to South Mississippi where we were there serving together for
about three and a half years. Through COVID actually and
uh summer of twenty twenty three, God actually moved us
(08:56):
back to East Tennessee, and so we would both consider
this area home and really felt led to come back here,
which I'm so grateful that God opened the door for that. So, yeah,
we we have went through a lot of change together
in our first six years of marriage, a move, a
couple moves for me, one move for him, and a
ton of change in our church in Mississippi there and
(09:17):
then leaving and coming here, And so that's I would
say change has been a major through line kind of
of our first few years of marriage, which is something
that I think grows you a lot closer together and
is incredibly hard, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, you're like, oh, I didn't want to have to
go through this to learn this.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Okay, so your book, You're not too late. I was
immediately drawn when like we connected via email to the time.
Yeah yeah, because I feel it's something that like I
just discussed, like I always felt, you know, I was
too late to the game when it comes to like
this constructed timeline that I had created. So would you
kind of go into detail about what you hope or
(10:02):
the message you hope that people get out of reading
your book?
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yeah, totally, Well, I'll back up a little bit and
give you kind of the why, because I always think
that's interesting. So my first book was all about what
are your gifts and talents and how are you using
them to the glory of God. It was called Do
the Thing, Gospel centered, goals, gumption, and Grace for the
go getter girl. So it was a very fun book
to write, and it was a very fun book to
(10:26):
talk about. I was in a two book contract with
my publisher, so I got on the other side of
that first launch and started kind of dreaming with the
Lord about what was next. And honestly, Catherine, at the beginning,
I thought it might be a book on singleness, because,
like you, I got married in the Southern culture tradition
later in life than most of my peers, and I
(10:48):
felt like I had a lot to say to single women.
I'd been a bridesmaid twelve times when I married Dustin
and had just done a lot of the like show
up for your people when they're getting the thing you want, yeah,
And I felt like I had a lot to say
about that. And so the more I prayed through it
and just talk to other women in my life, the
more I began to recognize like, oh, this thread of
(11:10):
longing and waiting is so much bigger than just singleness. Yeah,
because I married Dustin and the reality of that is, like,
my longing for singleness was fulfilled, and I'm so grateful
that I get to walk alongside him and have a
ministry partner and all of that. So like all of
that dream came true, that longing was fulfilled. But now
longing in my heart just looks different than it did
(11:32):
six years ago. Right, So, whether it's kind of the
relational piece of that you're desiring to get married or
have children or restore a broken relationship, or it's more
vocational like I feel led to make a career, pitvot
or go start a business or get involved in a ministry.
The challenges that accompany those longings are actually pretty similar.
(11:53):
They look the same. Many times. It's things like despair
and like will this ever happen for me? It's doubt
we'll I'd ever provide that for me. It's comparison and
envy that's I think a massive one for women right now,
Resentment like I've waited so long and watching other people
get to experience that has caused kind of the bitterness
(12:14):
to grow in my heart, and now it's turned into resentment.
And so what I became passionate about is having a
different kind of conversation about our longing, Like how do
we live in the midst of brokenness and have real
emotions about the things that we desire that many times
are God given, like the desire for kids, the desire
for marriage, And how do we be human in that?
(12:35):
And we're going to experience fear, We're going to experience insecurity,
But where do we turn when we do? And so
my hope is that readers walk away not necessarily like, oh,
I've kicked fear to the curb forevermore and I'm never
going to struggle with that again, because We're human and
we will. But when we do, where do I turn?
Like is my heart so hidden in the word that
(12:57):
like I can quickly recognize that and it back to
truth when I am struggling in that way. So all
of our challenges, I think in the middle of longing
look maybe a little different, but I think a lot
of the challenges are the same. And so no matter
what kind of longing that you're experiencing, my hope is
that you find some encouragement there.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, and you're absolutely right, Like, no matter what it
is you're longing for, whether it be a partner or
a child or a career change, the feelings are all
kind of similar, the doubt, the trying to remain hopeful.
But the comparison, like all of that is like so
real and so relatable. Whether you're waiting for something that
(13:39):
someone else isn't waiting for or vice versa, like you
can all relate on the feelings that come with it.
Is there something in your life? I mean, I know
you said you wanted to originally write on singleness, which
kind of led to this, But is there something currently
in your life right now as you are writing this
that kind of gave you the I guess inspiration to
(13:59):
encourage others, Like, is there something that you're currently waiting
for that kind of pushed you to write this book?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Yeah? Totally. I mean, I think the most obvious one
is having kids. Right I'm in my thirties and so
I'm very much in that season where all my friends
are having babies, which is so sweet and awesome and
just super transparently. The first few years of our marriage
were really hard, if I'm honest, Like we got married
ten months before COVID started, and so the first year
(14:30):
of our marriage was not only me leaving everything I'd
ever known in Tennessee to move almost six hundred miles
away from my friends and family to become a pastor's wife,
which there's joy in that and awesome things that come
along with that, and there were great challenges. The culture
we were ministering in was really challenging. It was a
very small town, so I felt like I was in
(14:50):
the fishbowl all the time. And then we were hit
with a pandemic, and so the first few years of
our marriage were actually pretty jar and I cannot fathom
adding another human to the mix in the middle of that.
So I feel like now not to overshare, but like
on the other side of COVID, we're kind of in
(15:11):
this like who are we? Who do we want to
be when we grow up? Kind of like, let's have
the fun we did not frankly get to have in
the first few years, and kind of sit with that desire.
We definitely want children, but we have not. We've wanted
to have like the right foundation in our marriage in
all fairness before we bring that into the picture. And
(15:35):
so I would say in very real time as I
was processing through all of these different chapters and topics
that I mentioned a minute ago, I'm wrestling through it
in my own life, like I kind of wrote about
it in retrospective, Like a lot of the stories you'll
read will be either somebody I walked alongside in a
challenge like that, or my own season of singleness and
(15:57):
career challenges and things like that. And uh, yeah, there's
there's definitely that huge piece of longing. I'm a big
fan of that term, like you write from your scars,
not your wounds, right, so you will. You will not
hear me talk a lot about that current challenge of
longing because I don't know that I could write about
(16:18):
it in a way that would probably be the version
of it I would like the world would need to
know right now, right because me and the Lord of
processing through that. But that was definitely the one that
was heaviest on my heart as I was writing the book.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
For sure, I've never heard that quote before, you write
from your scars, not your wounds.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
I feel as if what people need to know is
if you feel like everyone in your life, especially via
social media, has everything you've ever wanted and you're waiting,
they don't like every what everyone this side of heaven
is longing for something because totally and so like you said,
(17:00):
like it went from longing for a husband and now
longing for a child. Like the longing just shifts into
a different category. But it's always like, we're never quite
fully fulfilled here because this is in our home, and
so we're always going to be longing for something. And
so if you're like scrolling through social media and feel
as if you don't have what this person has and
(17:22):
they have everything you've ever wanted, there's something that they're
longing for as well.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
It's just typically not shared on social media. Person, So
just hear that. If you're listening to this and you're like,
I'm the one in the waiting and everyone else has
what I want.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Everyone's longing for something, it just shifts, like you said,
to something different, different categories.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Yeah, so good if you.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Actually no, let me go back. What Let's say someone's
listening here and they are longing for something and this
really resonates with them, what are some pieces in scripture
that you would.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Point them to to give them a little more faith
and hope in what's to come.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Yeah, yeah, well I'll give you a really practical one
because I think so many times when we're longing for
something and that season is pretty prolonged, what we tend
to do, especially if you're listening and you you grew
up in the South or maybe you live in the South,
and you notice about our culture like we're just always
we're good, we're fine, but we're busy, but we're good,
(18:24):
and we just kind of don't really confront a lot
of conflict and whatever. What we tend to do is
apply that same principle to our relationship with God. Right,
I'm maybe unwilling to just really raw go before the
Lord and say like this is where my heart is,
like would you meet me in the middle of that?
And I've actually been so encouraged by reading the Psalms
(18:46):
in the middle of my own longing because you'll find
so many examples of David and other Psalmna's just crying
out to the Lord in the middle of their despair
and they're wondering how it will work out, and they're saying,
like how long, o Lord, will you know until you
show up and like make a difference here or whatever,
And so I think that has been such an encouragement
(19:07):
to my heart. But a really practical thing that I
talk about in the book that has helped me so
much is buried right into Psalm one thirty nine, so
verses twenty three and twenty four. Many of us are
probably familiar with this passage, but the psalm that says,
search my heart, Oh God, try me and know my
anxious thoughts, and if there'd be a grievous way in me,
lead me in the way everlasting. And I've actually come
(19:30):
back to that prayer a lot in my own season
of waiting, and we call it the search me God
prayer in You're not too Late, and we come back
to it at the end of every chapter to kind
of just ask the Lord, like, would you search my heart?
Would you examine my heart? And however I'm thinking about this,
or however I'm I'm seeing this from my limited perspective,
(19:51):
would you reveal to me my anxieties about it the
way that I'm thinking about it that's contradictory to your perspective,
And would you point me back to truth? And so
so I actually go there a lot when I feel
like I'm spiraling in the waiting and I don't know
what's next, and I'm trying to trust God, like I
will just ask God to examine my heart and to
point me back towards truth. And I think more than
(20:12):
any other encouragement I could give, I would encourage you
to go to the Lord about whatever you're longing for
and not make it one of those things like we
do a lot in our earthly relationships where we just
kind of shove it under the rug, We just kind
of placate ourselves with like some other thing to keep
us busy, Like, actually go to him and be honest
(20:33):
before him about what you're struggling with. He can handle it.
He can handle it, and he actually already knows what's
in your heart and in the condition of your heart
and wants to meet you there like so badly. So
if we just are willing to do that, I think
that's a huge part of also protecting our hearts from bitterness. Yeah,
because that's what grows in our hearts when we're unwilling
(20:54):
to confront what's going on. So that would be my advice.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
That's so true.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
I also just for my own personal story, and it's
all throughout scripture as well, like that's I love the
psalms too, because David, to me is so relatable.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, just like he is me, like I am him.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Like he's like happy one second with God and then
the next he's like begging God for something and living
in despair, and just like that's so real and I
love that that's like portrayed in scripture. And like the
cool thing about that verse search, search my heart and
know me is he already.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Knows our hearts better than we do.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Like I don't know if if you're the same way,
but sometimes life gets so busy and monotonous, almost like
you just kind of do It's almost like Groundhog's Day
sometimes where you kind of going through the same steps
every day, and sometimes like even two weeks ago, I
was at the beach with friends with all the kids,
and one of the moms asked me how I was
(21:48):
doing that for the first time in a long time,
I go, I don't really know, Like I have not
thought about it, because sometimes you're so busy just like
getting through your tasks or taking care of other people,
that you don't actually know how you're doing and you
don't reflect on that. So that prayer is so important
because it one, God already knows, like he's already searched
(22:09):
you when he knows you, but it reveals to you
maybe how something that you're feeling that you didn't even
know you were feeling. And so it's it's like a
wisdom eye opener, I guess. Yeah, and so that I
love that verse too, And it's kind of like a
hard prayer to pray because you're like I almost like.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Don't want to know.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah, like to be honest, like something's brushing it under
the rugue like you said, is like the easy way
to go. But in return, like you said, it creates
that bitterness and that comparison and envy and all that.
So that is a great verse all of Psalm one
thirty nine. It's just like, yeah, does it get anything?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Totally? No, I love that passage.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, it's so so good.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Okay, I noticed that in your book there's like some
like discussion questions and prompts.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
For the reasons.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
How is it like interactive for them? Is kind of
dive deeper into that?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Yeah, yeah, I would love to. I love, love love
that my publisher was willing to do this for this
message because I did not feel like waiting and longing
and trusting God in the middle of whatever that looks
like in your life. Could just be a book where
we just like read it, put it on our nightstand,
and just like moved on. I really felt like we
(23:28):
needed to dig in and ask God to search our
hearts back to that Psalm one thirty nine passage, and
so I was so grateful that they let me include
sections at the end of every chapter where I give
you scripture to reflect on that kind of ties back
to what we talked about in the chapter. There are
discussion questions, prayer prompts, and we actually also did a
(23:49):
video series that goes with every chapter. So in the
introduction of the book, there's like a little QR code
that you scan and you can actually get access to
an eleven session series for me for free, which I
love because if you're going through, Yeah, if you're going
through the book alone, I think sometimes when you're talking
about something this weighty, you need somebody to like hold
your hand and walk alongside you. So if you're going
(24:10):
through it alone, know that you have a little jolt
of encouragement from me at the beginning of every chapter.
And if you're doing it in a group, like, first
of all, I love discipleship. I love sitting with women
and learning more about God's word. I was discipling women
on my college condo living room floor long before I
was writing books and speaking and podcasting and everything we
(24:32):
do now, and i'm and I still am passionate about that.
And so I love the idea of women coming together
and doing this study in a group. And my goal
actually was not to have like thirty to forty minute
long teachings that you know, take up the whole hour
of your small group. I really just wanted to pop
in and say like, hey, here's what I want you
(24:52):
to know. I want to encourage you as you guys
get started, and it be kind of a jumping off
point for discussion. So the videos are pretty short, they're
like five to eight minutes after each chapter. And so
it's a good way to kind of open up your
small group, your book club, whatever you're hosting with other women.
And I think that's the book in its best form,
is doing it with others. So it's formatted in a
(25:14):
way where it can be really helpful. I think both ways,
doing it alone if that's more your jam, or getting
a group of friends together to do it together. All
the resources are there.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, I love that, And I'm assuming most of your
readers are women, and I'm also I work with only women,
and so it's not hard to get women talking.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
No, wow, absolutely not give.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Us one question.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
And we've got a whole hour community group going on.
You need a ton of discussion questions. We just need
something to like get the conversation started in the totally
people can digest and also like unpack things with others
through this book is like so huge because again, like
how many books have you read? Like you mentioned you
(26:00):
just like kind of read it and it's like, yeah,
check it off your list and then goes back into
your night saying you don't even really remember like how
it impacted you. So the digging is is definitely crucial
with reading a book. What is a really Your book's out, like.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, it came out April first.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Okay, okay, have you had any really cool like testimonials
or feedback from someone or readers and if so, is
there one you'd like to share?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Oh? Yeah, yeah, confidentially, like the stories that people bring
to you about like hey, I've been waiting ten years
to have a baby, and like somebody needed to write
this book and walk alongside me in the pain and
grief of that, and like thank you for writing it.
Or a girl that is in our book club. I'm
(26:51):
walking through the book in a book club this summer,
and one of the ladies is in her late thirties
and she's still single and just still waiting on God
best for her and still like so boldly desires that
and getting to walk alongside her has been like such
a joy. And so the thing about a book like
this is this is this is not the like singles
(27:16):
and doubles like little like oh this was encouraging or
this was whatever, Like these are people's deepest desires of
their heart. So it's such a like tender place to
get to speak into and that is not lost on me.
Like every story I hear is weighty, right, and I
just feel so humbled and honored to get to be
(27:38):
a part of that, Like it's I think, a really
important conversation. And so I'm just continually like, Lord, thank you,
like thank you for letting me be a part of
these people's stories and like get a glimpse into how
you're working in their lives and what that looks like
even when we're not getting the thing we want, and
getting to speak into that never be lost on me.
(28:01):
So I'm just really grateful.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, that is a huge gift. And also like if
you're listening to this and like I said earlier, you
feel like you're the only one more often than not,
like people just want someone to take the initial step
of vulnerability. So whether that be like asking a hard
question to a friend or presenting a prayer request to
(28:23):
a friend that maybe you haven't said out loud. Like
found through my thirty six years of life that when
I share something, even though I might feel nervous prior
to sharing it and a little anxious, like it's always
received with either me too, same like, same girl me.
I struggle with that too. Yeah, just so reassuring because
you feel seen, you feel like understood, where like so
(28:46):
much of walking through alonging alone is like the hardest
part for me is like feeling misunderstood when really nobody knows,
like you haven't allowed someone to walk through that with you,
even God sometimes Yeah, and then also like asking one
ques question like we were talking about earlier, can really
allow you to dive deeper with someone that you thought
you might already be deep with it, like just it
(29:09):
just creates community in such a like a real way,
and it's so raw. It's so easy to just ask
one question or to just share one thing. It's just
the leading up to it that feels like anxious. You
feel anxious and maybe a little scared or nervous, but
it's so worth it because the conversations that it creates
are just like incredible and life changing and life giving
(29:30):
for you. Yeah, I'm so grateful, and you know, like
I I can relate to you and the waiting for
a child, like we had a very tough time getting
pregnant staying pregnant and I was older. Yeah, I'm using
air quotes like for you know, one what the doctors
say your biological clock is and two what the you know,
(29:54):
society says, and so like there are ways also for
you to like protect your hearts in that longing phase.
Like one thing that worked for me and it's like
it might sound harsh is like I would sometimes mute
people on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Oh that's not harsh, who were like.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Getting what I wanted? And yeah, I felt like.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
What it did was it created like negative thoughts in
my head instead of encouraging, and like the beautiful thing
about the mute button is they don't know, No whant
to protect your heart a little bit if muting even
if it's like a best friend, if that makes you
feel a little more protective, that's part of the search
me God and know my heart is like you need
to know, like what maybe triggers you.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
To push away from God or push towards God, or
push away from people or push towards people, and like
create healthy boundaries around that.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
What are some ways that you would encourage someone to
create those healthy boundaries when you're in the season of waiting.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yeah, yeah, I love the mute button. I love that
you shared. I think that's a very practical one. Sometimes
it requires us to be a little more ruthless on
our part than even the mute button in taking breaks
from social Yeah, like dare I say that, because what
scrolling mindlessly on our phones is doing to our brains
(31:16):
is really destructive first of all, like not only just
related to the thing that you're longing for, but just
generally we're addicted to our phones, Like, let's just all
be honest, and so taking time away can be really helpful. Also,
I think in addition to going before the Lord and
just being really honest about your longing, we'll all bump
(31:37):
up against opportunities for us to have to navigate somebody
else getting the thing we want. Like a really easy
example is a baby shower.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Right.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
So, let's say you're the one who's walking through infertility
or you know, maybe you're not even married yet, and
you're like, man, I don't even have the right guy
like I, but I'm one desiring to be a wife
and a mom. Like that feels like so many hoops
to jump through to get to the thing that I desire.
If you're kind of spiraling there number one going before
the Lord and saying like, man, I've got this baby
(32:07):
shower next weekend. I love this friend. I want to
show up for her, and I recognize that the blessing
that you've given in her life is not to the
exclusion of how you're at work in my life. And
I know that's true, But my heart does not feel
that today. God, so like, I need you to grant
me the joy in you that like does not feel
(32:28):
like it exists today in my heart. Would you enable
me by your strength because I can't do this on
my own. To show up well and to show up
with joy for this friend and be able to hold both, like,
let me deal with the grief that accompanies me having
to go to this baby shower with a desire in
my heart. I can do some of that work before
I walk in the door. Yeah, so that my heart
(32:48):
isn't just like slapped in the face by like the
envy in comparison that I feel and then enable me
to show up with joy and celebrate her. And so
the more we practice that and get repsit that, I think,
the more comfortable will begin to feel with holding both.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
You know, And you might find while you're confronting God
about that is maybe the best thing for you is
to not go.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And that's okay.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Yeah, And that's okay, And like it could be like
obviously later so she's not overthinking it, but it could
be after where you have a conversation with that friend
and say like, I'm so sorry I could I didn't come.
I'm so happy for you, like you have this beautiful
blessing and thank God for that, But for me, it
just I just need to kind of protect my heart
in that. And so would you pray for me, as
(33:36):
you know, you're kind of getting the thing that I want.
And please know that I'm not like desiring to like
pull back from you as a friend. This is just
like the season I'm in. I just needed to kind
of like protect my heart. Those conversations go a long
way too, especially just like with someone that you're very
close with.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Totally. I also think there can be there can be
a happy medium in that too. A lot of shower
are drop in right now, and so I'm a huge
fan of the like, hey, I have a full day,
but like I just wanted to come give you a
hug and drop off your gift. I'm so excited for you.
And it could be a like fifteen minute thing where
you like show up and you celebrate them. But like
(34:16):
you don't have to sit in the like everybody's writing
down what they got, who it's from, for two and
a half hours while she unwraps all the gifts, Like
that's a lot for your heart, but you can stop
buy and give her a hug, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
So.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
I think sometimes we think in extremes, and sometimes the
extreme version is what our hearts need and we just
need to not go. But there's there's also happy mediums. Yeah, like, sure,
sometimes I might have the energy to show up for
two and a half hours. Sometimes like I got a
hug and I got like five minutes of showing up
with Joy and that's all my heart can do. But
I do want to show up for her, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah, it doesn't have to be You're right, it doesn't
have to be like one extreme or the other. Yeah,
definitely be a happy medium for sure. Okay, I have
four questions that I ask every guest at the end
of the episode. Okay, I don't tell them on purpose.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
So I love it.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Let's get Let's get into those four questions, and then
you can give my listeners the best place to follow
you and connect with you after this. So first question
is what is something that you're currently obsessed with right now? Oh,
it could be like anything from like a food to
a TV show to a book to something.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yeah, I'm obsessed with sunshine, Like it is so pretty
here in East Tennessee right now, and like I'm really
not a huge summer girl, to be honest, It's just
not my favorite season. However, I've sat and like done this,
like have conversations like this and get this book out
in the world for the last like six months. So
I am just loving Vitamin D and being outside like
(35:42):
any chance I get. So that's that's the thing I'm
obsessed with.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, it is so brutally hot where we are right now.
And yeah, be the biggest summer girl. Like, especially when
I was single or like, had no kids, I was like,
Summer's the best.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yeah. I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Having these kids though, man, and they just want to
be outside all day and they want to be held
and they want I'm ripping and sweat by like eight am. Yeah,
I'm like, I know, Okay, I don't think I'm a
summer person anymore.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, yeah, I think I'm a fall girl. I love fall.
Fall is my favorite for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Okay, next question is what's something that you're really looking
forward to in the rest of this year twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Oh yeah, we have not vacationed yet. The Georgias have
not vacationed yet, and so I am really looking forward
to like a full week plus of just totally unplugging,
Like I'm going to be pretty ruthless about like notifications
on my phone, being off social, my laptop will not
be with me. I need that kind of vacation. And
(36:43):
so that's the thing, Like when you said the question,
that's what bubbled up in my heart because I think
we just really need a break. So I'm looking forward
to that.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yeah, for sure, I hope that you get a great vacation.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Next question is what is something that you really love
about yourself right now? It doesn't have to be like physical.
In fact, I prefer if it's not. Yeah, the character
that you really love.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
You know, last week, I had to have a really
hard conversation and I called a friend afterwards and I said,
I feel like the Holy Spirit gave me the words
for that and it went really well, and like I
moved through the conversation fine, But I'm not sure that
I had the tools like emotionally or like the conflict
(37:32):
resolution tool, Like I don't know that I would have
had that same conversation five years ago. So I'm grateful
for how the Lord has grown me in that way.
Like I grew up in a pretty conflict avoidant culture.
So it actually, although I have a big, bold personality
(37:54):
when it comes to conflict, that's actually a really challenging
area for me. And it's in the area where I
feel like I've grown and figured out how to like
gracefully take up space when it's necessary and those types
of things. So that might seem like a silly one,
but that's an area of growth for me that I'm
great proud of.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, a great one.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
I love that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
My last question is if you could leave a post
it note on my listener's like mirror computer today with
just like a little piece of encouragement, what would it say.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
I mean, this is a give me but the title
of my book, I would say, you're not too late,
like you are not but like truly I say, I
make this statement in the introduction of the book. I
say this book is for the hopefuls, the almost but
not yet, the crushed in defeat, the stunned by a
lack of progress, and the weary woman ready to hang
up for Jersey. And I think that's a lot of
(38:45):
us in some regard in our life. And if we
would just look up and realize, like God is still
at work, he is still on the throne, he is
still working in your life in a way that you
don't see the full vantage point of and you are
not too late for your life. Like that is what
I would want people to hear.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I love it. I love it so much.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Okay, Rebecca, what is the best place for my listeners
or where's the best place for my listeners to connect
with you totally?
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I'm the most active over on Instagram. My handle is
Rebecca George Author. I'm a Cca Rebecca, so that's easy
to remember and you can grab the book. You're not
too late, trusting God's timing in a hurry up world.
Wherever you liked by books, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Christian Book,
all the places.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Amazing and listeners, I will put those links in the
show notes so that it's easy for you to buy
that book and to follow Rebecca on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Rebecca, thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
I love what you're doing and I'm excited for more
testimonies to come from.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
All of your writing.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Thanks Catherine.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
All Right, listeners, I will talk to you next week. Bye.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Thanks for listening to Heart and Soul. If this episode
encouraged you in any way, please leave a review on
Apple Podcasts or wherever.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
You get to your podcast. Talk to you next week.
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