January 6, 2025 • 21 mins
Parenthood is life-changing, but for today’s guest, Anna Water-Massey, it came with both joy and deep loss. At 30, Anna became a mother to Cleo, and a year later, she lost her own mother to cancer. Despite the heartbreak, Anna shares the incredible bond she’s built with Cleo—a connection that continues to grow, especially now that Cleo has become a mother herself to baby Indigo.
In this episode of Little Love Stories, Anna reflects on the powerful ties between mothers, daughters, and granddaughters, and how love can transcend even the hardest of times.
You can read Anna's full little Love Story here.
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CREDITS:
Host & Producer: Grace Rouvray
Guest: Anna Waters-Massey
You can watch the viral TikTok pregnancy announcement here
Audio Producer: Leah Porges
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges
the traditional owners of the land. We have recorded this
podcast on the Gatagul people of the Eora Nation. We
pay our respects to their elders past and present, and
extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander cultures.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hi, it's Grace from this Glorious mess introducing hot Pod Summer.
It's one hundred hours of curated listening across the Mumma
mea network just for you to escape the chaos and
enjoy with the kids at home and the weather warming up.
We're gonna share some episodes of Little Love Stories. Little
Love Stories is an open hearted conversation with someone who
(01:01):
has loved to share that love can be anything, a
time in someone's life, a person, or even an object.
It's all about discovering the magic everywhere you look. So
I hope you enjoy this episode of Little Love Stories.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I love you, how you live You.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Welcome to Little Love Stories. I'm Grace Rubrey. The moment
you become a parent is surreal looking down at this squishy,
slippery newborn on your chest, caught up in the whirlwind
of emotion that this is real, this actually happened. It's overwhelming, heartwarming,
(01:41):
and confusing all at once. But sometimes that beautiful early
bubble is also wrapped in pain, as it is for
today's guest, Anna waters Massy. At thirty, Anna became a
mother to her daughter, Cleo, and just a year later
she lost her own mother to cancer. Yet despite this
(02:02):
profound loss, Anna discovered something extraordinary in her bond with Cleo.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I don't know this amazing feeling. Cleo just looked at me,
and I just knew Mum had gone into Cleo, not
as impossessed her or anything, but had gone into and
we're going to come out through Cleo. All her life.
I knew that Mum would be there.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
There's a rare, incredible connection some mothers and daughters share,
one that Anna and Cleo are lucky enough to experience.
Even though Cleia never met her grandmother, that love still
weaves through their relationship, tying generations together.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Cleo and I are very both. I would say she's
probably my best friend, and I feel like that is
through Mum being such a huge part of her.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And then another bond forms, one that strengthens even further
when a new life enters the world. The day Anna
became a grandmother and Cleo welcomed her daughter, Indigo, a
new chapter of their shared journey began.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
When in the hospital room and to see my daughter
holding a baby, I just lost it.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
This is a story of four generations of women and
the connection they have to each other. But before we
get there, I asked some of the parents at the
Mum of Mea office what it felt like the day
they became a parent.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I vividly remember when I gave birth to my first
They plunked him on my chest. People talk about oh
my god, instant love. I was just like, oh my god,
what is this like. It took my brain time to
process that this thing that had been growing inside me
that was now this like red, little naked ball of
(03:51):
human was actually my child. And I just remember that
being my first memory, like, oh my god. It was
almost like shock. Honestly, it is hard to put into
words what I felt when I first saw my child
for the first time.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I remember having warm tingles all throughout my body.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I was smiling like crazy, and I kept.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Thinking to myself, Wow, this little boy, he's my son.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Not really about my baby, but my moment of realization
was when I accident did a shit in the shower
while on the eapy dural and then squished it down
the drain before the midwife saw it because I didn't
want her to have to clean it.
Speaker 6 (04:31):
Aside from my husband's sister posting our hospital room pick
that we privately shared to our family on Facebook, the
most pivotal memory from the day I first became a
parent would have to be when the nurse set that weird, squishy,
covered in gross stuff baby on my chest, and I
just remember thinking, Holy, look what I made. And then
(04:52):
that was very closely followed by oh my God, what
do I do now? And then realizing that everything would
be different from that point on.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
My heart cracked open. It's an indescribable feeling.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
One moment, we were two, the next week were three.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
All my children were born very prematurely, but I remember
very clearly with my eldest boy that after seventy two
hour labor, I was holding him in my arms, just
before he was taken off to Nikou, and his eyes
were wide open. He was so alert, and he was
(05:28):
just staring up at me as if to say, who
on earth are you? And what on Earth is going on,
And that's the moment that I realized I was actually
a mum.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Anna, can you tell me what you remember the most
about the day that you became a mother?
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Oh my god, it was long, It was tedious. When
Cleo came out, I just actually could not believe that
I made a person. I knew I was going to
have a baby, but until I looked at her and went,
oh my god, like it's actually a real baby, it
(06:07):
just blew me away. It was like freaking amazing. It
is the biggest miracle in the world. It really is.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Our bodies are fascinating.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Yeah, and you just make them, like you just make
another person. That just blows me away. It still does.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
In your piece, you talk about the special relationship of
grandparents and that you never really knew your grandparents. Now,
your mother died when Cleo was only one, so she
never got to have that full experience of a grandmother
through your side. But Cleo and your mother have a bond.
What did you notice in those early days after your
(06:43):
mother died.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
It was so bizarre because Mum gave Cleo a little
teddy bear that she calls Nanny Waters. I've always said
Nanny Waters this with you. You know, put the teddy
in the cot And there was a day when I
was feeding her and it was after Mum died, and
I don't know this amazing feeling. Cleo just looked at
(07:06):
me and I just knew Mum had gone into Cleo,
not as in possessed her or anything, but just like
had gone into and was going to come out through
Cleo all her life. I knew that Mum would be there.
It was really spiritual, very special.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
What are some of the signs that you've seen that
part of her spirit is in Cleo.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
When she was little in the cot, she would giggle
and laugh and I just knew someone was in there
playing with her, and I just knew it was Mum.
As she got older, her little teddy, Nanny Waters when
everywhere with her. Still as an adult, Nanny Waters goes
everywhere with her. Cleo talks about her as if she's here.
(07:50):
She has this really strong connection with her. It's quite bizarre.
Cleo has her own podcast and she talks about it
in depth on that she's her guardian angel. She talks
to her all the time.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Can you take me back to the day that you
found out that you were going to be a grandmother,
and there is a TikTok video that has almost thirty
million views. Can you explain what happens in that video
and then how you felt when you found out.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
It's pretty crazy. So Cleo and Luke, her husband, came around.
We were all there. We were going out for my
husband's birthday, so everyone was giving gifts anyway. So Cleo
gave a gift to my husband and it was a
onesie and straight away me and my son and son's
(08:38):
girlfriend we all knew that meant Cleo was pregnant. My
husband picked it up and thought it was for the
dog and was, oh my god, it's for crumpet. In
the video, you can see me and my son, who
keeps swearing all the way through it, just going oh
my god, oh my god. Only they're not the words
my son uses. There's a lot of swearing we all know,
(09:01):
and my husband doesn't know. And then when he finally
clocks on, he turns to Luke who's holding the camera,
and just rushes towards him to hugin, which is just gorgeous.
It's just hilarious and funny. We didn't think anyone else
would find it funny, but.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Obviously thirty million people did.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, how did you feel when you at that moment?
Because Cleo leans forward to you. It seems like you
have such a special bond with Cleo that, Yeah, she
just needed you to know that information. And it had
been so long that she'd been holding off telling you.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yeah, and it was only like a matter of weeks.
But she was so ill. And she turns to me
and she just says, Oh, I've been so sick, and
starts crying, and I'm crying. We're all just crying and screaming. Really,
but we are. Cleo and I are very close. I
would say she's probably my best friend, and I feel
(09:53):
like that is through Mum being such a huge part
of her.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Social Media tells only one side of the story. But
from the outside, it seems like you have one of
those magic families, you know, the families that you look
at you go surely you don't all get along, Surely
it's not also beautiful and shiny all the time. But
from the outside, that is what it looks like. And
I know that you have such a beautiful story of
how you even met your husband. Yeah, So there seems
(10:24):
to be like there's a little bit of magic in
your family.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
I like to think so. I mean, we obviously every
now and then you get shitty with each other. Everyone does,
Everyone niggles each other, but we all have a very
stupid sense of humor, and I think that really binds
us all. And we've been so lucky with our children's
partners that they get us. I don't know, we just
(10:51):
we get along. We like each other, and yeah, you're right.
Like I met my husband when I was nine. He
was my brother's best friend, which is just bizarre, and
ended up marrying him. Yeah, We've had lots of hard things,
like my mum dying when I was young, but you know,
I have been blessed with my kids and what's happening now.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, Cleo had quite a clear birth plan and a
clear manifestation of what she wanted, and you're right about that.
In your little love story said that she did it
better than you did. Can you tell me what you
would have changed about your own births based on what
Cleo did.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
I think we just weren't so aware of what we
could do and the birth that I had, but clear
was still great and amazing and I got to do
a lot of what I wanted to do, but she
just took control of it, and she had a dueler
and she had prepared. I didn't know about all these
breathing techniques, and she didn't even have any medication. But
(11:51):
I was like, yes, give me the Meathodene, is there more?
Can I have another hit? Please? Where's the gas? If
I'd known and been in more control, I think it
would have been more spiritual and beautiful like Cleo's was.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Can you talk me through the first time that you
saw Indigo and then also seeing your baby with a baby.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Oh, now a mum, seriously, Grace. I did not expect it.
I was like, I'm so excited, can't wait to get
in there. I just want to meet in to go, oh,
how beautiful, you know, like when in the hospital room
and to see my daughter holding a baby, I just
(12:34):
lost it. I didn't even look at India. I just
went straight for Cleo and just hugged her and cried.
It was just oh my god, my little girl is
now a mother, and it was just amazing, just amazing.
And then obviously I looked at India and then fell
in love with her. But just seeing Clee, oh, I
(12:57):
don't know. It just plew me away.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
You said that it's deepened your love for Cleo.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
What do you think that is? I don't know. I
think seeing her as a mother, seeing how beautiful she
is with Indy, seeing how much Loop loves her, and
how beautiful they are together, and just I just see
her on a different level. She gets me. She's said
(13:25):
to me so many times since Indigo was born. I
get it now. So because I used to say to her,
you will never love anyone the way that I love you, Clee.
The mother's love for a child is just phenomenal. The
umbilical cordin never breaks. I've always known when Cleo's upset
(13:46):
or Joey, my son. I know when there's something wrong
because I feel it in my gup. I know it
before they ring me. And I've said that to her
so many times, and she's like, no, no, Mommy, don't.
She was worried that she wouldn't have enough love for
Indigo because she loved the dog so much. And I'm like,
trust me, And now she says to me, oh, I
(14:07):
get it, I get it now.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Is that love instant? When they've popped on your check?
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Sometimes it's not because sometimes it's such a shock. I
think for me with Joey it was maybe a day.
His birth was really difficult, and I think every birth
is difficult. And that's the thing. When it's really difficult
and painful, you've gone through some hard stuff. Sometimes you're
(14:42):
just so exhausted and you just can't feel. And you
shouldn't feel guilty for that either, because every birth is
different and your body goes through a massive trauma having
a baby. The love you feel for a child is
just overwhelming. I would kill I would kill people to
(15:03):
keep them safe. It's not even a question. If my
child was threatened in any way, I would die for them.
You actually would.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
What is the difference between the love that you feel
for Indigo and being a grandmother. What are the instincts
that take over in that situation.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
So I thought being a grandmother was like, oh god,
I'm going to be granny. You know, I'm going to
be old. It's going to make me old. Totally the opposite.
I thought I was going to be very nervous, you know,
looking after a child that wasn't mine. I don't feel
that at all. I feel really confident and comfortable, and
I feel younger. It's brought back memories that i'd forgotten
(15:46):
of my two when they were younger. You're just like, oh, yeah,
that's right. That's how you put an appy on, or
that's how you dress them in that outfit. It just
comes back to you and makes me feel younger, which.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
You do talk about in the piece that you feel
younger and you don't feel like that stereotypical grandmother. What
do you feel like you've gained that has given you
more energy, or more time or more I guess, just
what have you gained by becoming a.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Grandmother, patients? I think when I was a mother, it
was like a hurry up beneath to get here because
I had no help. I had no help. We moved
into state as well, and my husband's parents were really elderly,
and they died not long after when the kids were
still quite young. So I was always on the computer,
(16:35):
breastfeeding Cleo. I was trying to do a million things
at once. Now, when Indigo comes over, like she's just gone,
I just sit there, sit there and look at her toes,
play with the little fingers and it's a little face
and talk googo gago like sing nonsense. I just go
(16:57):
that can all wait, got emails to answer, I need
to phone so and so I'm just saying, eh, little
wait because this time's so precious. In a blink of
an eye, it's gone.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Perspective is a wonderful thing. I want to acknowledge the
grief that you felt in the moment that you're getting
to share something with Cleo that you and your mum
did and get to experience of all the little moments
that you've got to have over these past few months.
What are some things that you wish that you had
with your mum?
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Oh so much. Cue the tears, Grace, I'm trying not
to cry so I can talk properly. Oh, I missed
out on so much because as soon as you have
a baby, like I said about Cleo, you get it
all of a sudden. It's like a light switch and
(17:49):
you go, oh my god, Now I get what mum
was on about all of a sudden. I had a
different relationship with my mum, but she was going through chemo,
so I couldn't share really anything with her. She couldn't
enjoy Cleo as a baby. Just so much that you
(18:10):
can ask people, you know, Cleo asks me how long
did you breast people? How long did this hurt? Did
that hurt? How long did it take for this that
and the up it to happen? When did I get
my first tooth? When did I sit up? I couldn't
ask Mum any of that, and they didn't keep baby books,
and my brothers wouldn't know, and dad's dad lost the
(18:32):
plot when Mum died. He really just went into himself
until he died himself. So I just I couldn't ask
any of those things. You want to know, all those
motherly things.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Is that something that you're trying to do with Cleo
now is to document, to share, to create a space
that you wish that you have.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Yeah, absolutely take pictures, take videos. The photos I have
of me and Mum are I was a baby and
then maybe two when I was ten. None as an adult,
because you are selfish when you're growing up and you're
a teenager and you're in your twenties, you're just too
(19:15):
selfish and you're not taking pictures with your parents, you're
taking them with your friends. I don't have photos. I'm
trying always to make sure that Cleo and I have
photos as well, that I've got photos with India and videos.
I don't have videos of Mum talking. I want to
hear her voice again. You know, just so many things.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
There are four generations of women in this story, and
you're right about that. And the piece by sharing what
is quite a beautiful, actual scientific fact of how all
connected you are. Could you share what that is and
why you love that so much?
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Yeah, it's amazing. So I might get this kind of wrong,
but basically, when I gave birth to Cleo, she had
all the eggs that she would have for her lifetime,
so indigo was in her. So indigo was a part
of me. It's like, what is that kind of mind blowing?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, it's crazy, it's so so crazy and sadly, as
you said at the peaks, the men don't get that. No,
not that they're not important, No, they just don't get
that beautiful connection that women get.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
No, because the sperm is it takes to puberty, I
think till they build their sperm, so it's not a
part of them from when they're born, whereas with women,
we're born with all the eggs that we will have,
so they are a part of your mother already. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Another way that we end every little love Stories is
that we ask what does love mean to you? And
that can be just today, right now, in this second.
But what comes to mind when I ask what does
love mean to you?
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Family? It's just family. Like everyone else comes and goes,
but family is always there. And the fact that even
though I lost my mum, I so feel like she's
still there and so does Cleo. Like, how amazing is that?
(21:23):
It's beautiful?
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Thank you so much for sharing your little love story.
That's all right, Thank you for listening to Little Love Stories.
If you'd like to read Anna's full little Love story,
you can go to the link in the show notes.
Anna also has some very silly tiktoks and skits about menopause.
If you would like to have a laugh, We've also
popped a link to those in the show notes. If
you have a story you want to tell, we'd love
(21:46):
to hear it. We're always on the lookout for new
stories and hearing from someone who has loved to give.
If you want to get in touch, all the details
are also in our show notes. Little Love Stories is
produced by me Grace Ruverray with audio production by Lou Hill.
If you're looking for something else to listen to, mma
me who's presenting one hundred hours of summer listens from
meaningful conversations, incredible stories, fashion, beauty, and a bit of silliness.
(22:11):
There's a link to more things to listen to in
the show notes.
You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges
the traditional owners of the land. We have recorded this
podcast on the Gatagul people of the Eora Nation. We
pay our respects to their elders past and present, and
extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander cultures.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hi, it's Grace from this Glorious mess introducing hot Pod Summer.
It's one hundred hours of curated listening across the Mumma
mea network just for you to escape the chaos and
enjoy with the kids at home and the weather warming up.
We're gonna share some episodes of Little Love Stories. Little
Love Stories is an open hearted conversation with someone who
(01:01):
has loved to share that love can be anything, a
time in someone's life, a person, or even an object.
It's all about discovering the magic everywhere you look. So
I hope you enjoy this episode of Little Love Stories.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I love you, how you live You.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Welcome to Little Love Stories. I'm Grace Rubrey. The moment
you become a parent is surreal looking down at this squishy,
slippery newborn on your chest, caught up in the whirlwind
of emotion that this is real, this actually happened. It's overwhelming, heartwarming,
(01:41):
and confusing all at once. But sometimes that beautiful early
bubble is also wrapped in pain, as it is for
today's guest, Anna waters Massy. At thirty, Anna became a
mother to her daughter, Cleo, and just a year later
she lost her own mother to cancer. Yet despite this
(02:02):
profound loss, Anna discovered something extraordinary in her bond with Cleo.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I don't know this amazing feeling. Cleo just looked at me,
and I just knew Mum had gone into Cleo, not
as impossessed her or anything, but had gone into and
we're going to come out through Cleo. All her life.
I knew that Mum would be there.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
There's a rare, incredible connection some mothers and daughters share,
one that Anna and Cleo are lucky enough to experience.
Even though Cleia never met her grandmother, that love still
weaves through their relationship, tying generations together.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Cleo and I are very both. I would say she's
probably my best friend, and I feel like that is
through Mum being such a huge part of her.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And then another bond forms, one that strengthens even further
when a new life enters the world. The day Anna
became a grandmother and Cleo welcomed her daughter, Indigo, a
new chapter of their shared journey began.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
When in the hospital room and to see my daughter
holding a baby, I just lost it.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
This is a story of four generations of women and
the connection they have to each other. But before we
get there, I asked some of the parents at the
Mum of Mea office what it felt like the day
they became a parent.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I vividly remember when I gave birth to my first
They plunked him on my chest. People talk about oh
my god, instant love. I was just like, oh my god,
what is this like. It took my brain time to
process that this thing that had been growing inside me
that was now this like red, little naked ball of
(03:51):
human was actually my child. And I just remember that
being my first memory, like, oh my god. It was
almost like shock. Honestly, it is hard to put into
words what I felt when I first saw my child
for the first time.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I remember having warm tingles all throughout my body.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I was smiling like crazy, and I kept.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Thinking to myself, Wow, this little boy, he's my son.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Not really about my baby, but my moment of realization
was when I accident did a shit in the shower
while on the eapy dural and then squished it down
the drain before the midwife saw it because I didn't
want her to have to clean it.
Speaker 6 (04:31):
Aside from my husband's sister posting our hospital room pick
that we privately shared to our family on Facebook, the
most pivotal memory from the day I first became a
parent would have to be when the nurse set that weird, squishy,
covered in gross stuff baby on my chest, and I
just remember thinking, Holy, look what I made. And then
(04:52):
that was very closely followed by oh my God, what
do I do now? And then realizing that everything would
be different from that point on.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
My heart cracked open. It's an indescribable feeling.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
One moment, we were two, the next week were three.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
All my children were born very prematurely, but I remember
very clearly with my eldest boy that after seventy two
hour labor, I was holding him in my arms, just
before he was taken off to Nikou, and his eyes
were wide open. He was so alert, and he was
(05:28):
just staring up at me as if to say, who
on earth are you? And what on Earth is going on,
And that's the moment that I realized I was actually
a mum.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Anna, can you tell me what you remember the most
about the day that you became a mother?
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Oh my god, it was long, It was tedious. When
Cleo came out, I just actually could not believe that
I made a person. I knew I was going to
have a baby, but until I looked at her and went,
oh my god, like it's actually a real baby, it
(06:07):
just blew me away. It was like freaking amazing. It
is the biggest miracle in the world. It really is.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Our bodies are fascinating.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Yeah, and you just make them, like you just make
another person. That just blows me away. It still does.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
In your piece, you talk about the special relationship of
grandparents and that you never really knew your grandparents. Now,
your mother died when Cleo was only one, so she
never got to have that full experience of a grandmother
through your side. But Cleo and your mother have a bond.
What did you notice in those early days after your
(06:43):
mother died.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
It was so bizarre because Mum gave Cleo a little
teddy bear that she calls Nanny Waters. I've always said
Nanny Waters this with you. You know, put the teddy
in the cot And there was a day when I
was feeding her and it was after Mum died, and
I don't know this amazing feeling. Cleo just looked at
(07:06):
me and I just knew Mum had gone into Cleo,
not as in possessed her or anything, but just like
had gone into and was going to come out through
Cleo all her life. I knew that Mum would be there.
It was really spiritual, very special.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
What are some of the signs that you've seen that
part of her spirit is in Cleo.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
When she was little in the cot, she would giggle
and laugh and I just knew someone was in there
playing with her, and I just knew it was Mum.
As she got older, her little teddy, Nanny Waters when
everywhere with her. Still as an adult, Nanny Waters goes
everywhere with her. Cleo talks about her as if she's here.
(07:50):
She has this really strong connection with her. It's quite bizarre.
Cleo has her own podcast and she talks about it
in depth on that she's her guardian angel. She talks
to her all the time.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Can you take me back to the day that you
found out that you were going to be a grandmother,
and there is a TikTok video that has almost thirty
million views. Can you explain what happens in that video
and then how you felt when you found out.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
It's pretty crazy. So Cleo and Luke, her husband, came around.
We were all there. We were going out for my
husband's birthday, so everyone was giving gifts anyway. So Cleo
gave a gift to my husband and it was a
onesie and straight away me and my son and son's
(08:38):
girlfriend we all knew that meant Cleo was pregnant. My
husband picked it up and thought it was for the
dog and was, oh my god, it's for crumpet. In
the video, you can see me and my son, who
keeps swearing all the way through it, just going oh
my god, oh my god. Only they're not the words
my son uses. There's a lot of swearing we all know,
(09:01):
and my husband doesn't know. And then when he finally
clocks on, he turns to Luke who's holding the camera,
and just rushes towards him to hugin, which is just gorgeous.
It's just hilarious and funny. We didn't think anyone else
would find it funny, but.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Obviously thirty million people did.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, how did you feel when you at that moment?
Because Cleo leans forward to you. It seems like you
have such a special bond with Cleo that, Yeah, she
just needed you to know that information. And it had
been so long that she'd been holding off telling you.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yeah, and it was only like a matter of weeks.
But she was so ill. And she turns to me
and she just says, Oh, I've been so sick, and
starts crying, and I'm crying. We're all just crying and screaming. Really,
but we are. Cleo and I are very close. I
would say she's probably my best friend, and I feel
(09:53):
like that is through Mum being such a huge part
of her.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Social Media tells only one side of the story. But
from the outside, it seems like you have one of
those magic families, you know, the families that you look
at you go surely you don't all get along, Surely
it's not also beautiful and shiny all the time. But
from the outside, that is what it looks like. And
I know that you have such a beautiful story of
how you even met your husband. Yeah, So there seems
(10:24):
to be like there's a little bit of magic in
your family.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
I like to think so. I mean, we obviously every
now and then you get shitty with each other. Everyone does,
Everyone niggles each other, but we all have a very
stupid sense of humor, and I think that really binds
us all. And we've been so lucky with our children's
partners that they get us. I don't know, we just
(10:51):
we get along. We like each other, and yeah, you're right.
Like I met my husband when I was nine. He
was my brother's best friend, which is just bizarre, and
ended up marrying him. Yeah, We've had lots of hard things,
like my mum dying when I was young, but you know,
I have been blessed with my kids and what's happening now.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, Cleo had quite a clear birth plan and a
clear manifestation of what she wanted, and you're right about that.
In your little love story said that she did it
better than you did. Can you tell me what you
would have changed about your own births based on what
Cleo did.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
I think we just weren't so aware of what we
could do and the birth that I had, but clear
was still great and amazing and I got to do
a lot of what I wanted to do, but she
just took control of it, and she had a dueler
and she had prepared. I didn't know about all these
breathing techniques, and she didn't even have any medication. But
(11:51):
I was like, yes, give me the Meathodene, is there more?
Can I have another hit? Please? Where's the gas? If
I'd known and been in more control, I think it
would have been more spiritual and beautiful like Cleo's was.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Can you talk me through the first time that you
saw Indigo and then also seeing your baby with a baby.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Oh, now a mum, seriously, Grace. I did not expect it.
I was like, I'm so excited, can't wait to get
in there. I just want to meet in to go, oh,
how beautiful, you know, like when in the hospital room
and to see my daughter holding a baby, I just
(12:34):
lost it. I didn't even look at India. I just
went straight for Cleo and just hugged her and cried.
It was just oh my god, my little girl is
now a mother, and it was just amazing, just amazing.
And then obviously I looked at India and then fell
in love with her. But just seeing Clee, oh, I
(12:57):
don't know. It just plew me away.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
You said that it's deepened your love for Cleo.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
What do you think that is? I don't know. I
think seeing her as a mother, seeing how beautiful she
is with Indy, seeing how much Loop loves her, and
how beautiful they are together, and just I just see
her on a different level. She gets me. She's said
(13:25):
to me so many times since Indigo was born. I
get it now. So because I used to say to her,
you will never love anyone the way that I love you, Clee.
The mother's love for a child is just phenomenal. The
umbilical cordin never breaks. I've always known when Cleo's upset
(13:46):
or Joey, my son. I know when there's something wrong
because I feel it in my gup. I know it
before they ring me. And I've said that to her
so many times, and she's like, no, no, Mommy, don't.
She was worried that she wouldn't have enough love for
Indigo because she loved the dog so much. And I'm like,
trust me, And now she says to me, oh, I
(14:07):
get it, I get it now.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Is that love instant? When they've popped on your check?
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Sometimes it's not because sometimes it's such a shock. I
think for me with Joey it was maybe a day.
His birth was really difficult, and I think every birth
is difficult. And that's the thing. When it's really difficult
and painful, you've gone through some hard stuff. Sometimes you're
(14:42):
just so exhausted and you just can't feel. And you
shouldn't feel guilty for that either, because every birth is
different and your body goes through a massive trauma having
a baby. The love you feel for a child is
just overwhelming. I would kill I would kill people to
(15:03):
keep them safe. It's not even a question. If my
child was threatened in any way, I would die for them.
You actually would.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
What is the difference between the love that you feel
for Indigo and being a grandmother. What are the instincts
that take over in that situation.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
So I thought being a grandmother was like, oh god,
I'm going to be granny. You know, I'm going to
be old. It's going to make me old. Totally the opposite.
I thought I was going to be very nervous, you know,
looking after a child that wasn't mine. I don't feel
that at all. I feel really confident and comfortable, and
I feel younger. It's brought back memories that i'd forgotten
(15:46):
of my two when they were younger. You're just like, oh, yeah,
that's right. That's how you put an appy on, or
that's how you dress them in that outfit. It just
comes back to you and makes me feel younger, which.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
You do talk about in the piece that you feel
younger and you don't feel like that stereotypical grandmother. What
do you feel like you've gained that has given you
more energy, or more time or more I guess, just
what have you gained by becoming a.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Grandmother, patients? I think when I was a mother, it
was like a hurry up beneath to get here because
I had no help. I had no help. We moved
into state as well, and my husband's parents were really elderly,
and they died not long after when the kids were
still quite young. So I was always on the computer,
(16:35):
breastfeeding Cleo. I was trying to do a million things
at once. Now, when Indigo comes over, like she's just gone,
I just sit there, sit there and look at her toes,
play with the little fingers and it's a little face
and talk googo gago like sing nonsense. I just go
(16:57):
that can all wait, got emails to answer, I need
to phone so and so I'm just saying, eh, little
wait because this time's so precious. In a blink of
an eye, it's gone.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Perspective is a wonderful thing. I want to acknowledge the
grief that you felt in the moment that you're getting
to share something with Cleo that you and your mum
did and get to experience of all the little moments
that you've got to have over these past few months.
What are some things that you wish that you had
with your mum?
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Oh so much. Cue the tears, Grace, I'm trying not
to cry so I can talk properly. Oh, I missed
out on so much because as soon as you have
a baby, like I said about Cleo, you get it
all of a sudden. It's like a light switch and
(17:49):
you go, oh my god, Now I get what mum
was on about all of a sudden. I had a
different relationship with my mum, but she was going through chemo,
so I couldn't share really anything with her. She couldn't
enjoy Cleo as a baby. Just so much that you
(18:10):
can ask people, you know, Cleo asks me how long
did you breast people? How long did this hurt? Did
that hurt? How long did it take for this that
and the up it to happen? When did I get
my first tooth? When did I sit up? I couldn't
ask Mum any of that, and they didn't keep baby books,
and my brothers wouldn't know, and dad's dad lost the
(18:32):
plot when Mum died. He really just went into himself
until he died himself. So I just I couldn't ask
any of those things. You want to know, all those
motherly things.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Is that something that you're trying to do with Cleo
now is to document, to share, to create a space
that you wish that you have.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Yeah, absolutely take pictures, take videos. The photos I have
of me and Mum are I was a baby and
then maybe two when I was ten. None as an adult,
because you are selfish when you're growing up and you're
a teenager and you're in your twenties, you're just too
(19:15):
selfish and you're not taking pictures with your parents, you're
taking them with your friends. I don't have photos. I'm
trying always to make sure that Cleo and I have
photos as well, that I've got photos with India and videos.
I don't have videos of Mum talking. I want to
hear her voice again. You know, just so many things.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
There are four generations of women in this story, and
you're right about that. And the piece by sharing what
is quite a beautiful, actual scientific fact of how all
connected you are. Could you share what that is and
why you love that so much?
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Yeah, it's amazing. So I might get this kind of wrong,
but basically, when I gave birth to Cleo, she had
all the eggs that she would have for her lifetime,
so indigo was in her. So indigo was a part
of me. It's like, what is that kind of mind blowing?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, it's crazy, it's so so crazy and sadly, as
you said at the peaks, the men don't get that. No,
not that they're not important, No, they just don't get
that beautiful connection that women get.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
No, because the sperm is it takes to puberty, I
think till they build their sperm, so it's not a
part of them from when they're born, whereas with women,
we're born with all the eggs that we will have,
so they are a part of your mother already. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Another way that we end every little love Stories is
that we ask what does love mean to you? And
that can be just today, right now, in this second.
But what comes to mind when I ask what does
love mean to you?
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Family? It's just family. Like everyone else comes and goes,
but family is always there. And the fact that even
though I lost my mum, I so feel like she's
still there and so does Cleo. Like, how amazing is that?
(21:23):
It's beautiful?
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Thank you so much for sharing your little love story.
That's all right, Thank you for listening to Little Love Stories.
If you'd like to read Anna's full little Love story,
you can go to the link in the show notes.
Anna also has some very silly tiktoks and skits about menopause.
If you would like to have a laugh, We've also
popped a link to those in the show notes. If
you have a story you want to tell, we'd love
(21:46):
to hear it. We're always on the lookout for new
stories and hearing from someone who has loved to give.
If you want to get in touch, all the details
are also in our show notes. Little Love Stories is
produced by me Grace Ruverray with audio production by Lou Hill.
If you're looking for something else to listen to, mma
me who's presenting one hundred hours of summer listens from
meaningful conversations, incredible stories, fashion, beauty, and a bit of silliness.
(22:11):
There's a link to more things to listen to in
the show notes.
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