December 5, 2024 • 24 mins
Mum guilt—it's something most of us have heard about. But what about Dad guilt? Does it exist?
Annaliese and Tegan take a deep dive into their own experiences with Mum guilt, exploring where it stems from. To get the Dad perspective, they brought back resident dad Thom Lion to share whether dads feel the same weight of guilt.
Plus, a few of Mamamia's own dads shared their honest take... The results might surprise you and definitely give you something to think about.
Like what you heard? You can listen to more of This Glorious Mess wherever you get your podcasts.
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CREDITS:
Host: Tegan Natoli, Annaliese Todd & Thom Lion
Producer: Grace Rouvray
Audio Producer: Lu Hill
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
So much.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Mumma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. We
have recorded this podcast on the Gadigul people of the
Eor nation. We pay our respects to their elders past
and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and
Torres Right islander cultures.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Hi It's analyse here from Muma MIA's parenting podcast, This
Glorious Mess.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Do you get mum guilt? I'm sure you.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Do, whether it's about what you feel like you haven't done,
or maybe it's about the things you have done, like
a weekend away or.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Just taking time for you.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
I'm dropping into your fee today to share an episode
of This Glorious Mess all about mum guilt and to
get the full perspective. We've invited a dad on the
show to ask if he gets dad guilt. The answers
will probably not shock you, but in some ways they
also will surprise you. This is this glorious mess, and
(01:20):
guilt can get.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
In the bin.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Hello, and welcome to this Glorious Mess. We're embracing the
chaos together, ditching the judgment. I'm Anali's todd and as
well as.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Ditching the judgment.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
We hope by the end of this episode we're ditching
the guilt it needs to do on the bin Well,
I'm teaking to Tolly and I'm a guilt to Hollegu,
So I can't wait to find the guilt bin Well,
I'm gonna help you find a teased because today on
the show, we're diving into mum guilt, which.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I hate that. I hate that that's even a term.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Have you ever heard of dad guilt? No, no, you haven't.
So while parent guilt is real for everyone, there's a
unique type of guilt that many mothers experience, and it's
something that impacts women in ways that men often don't feel.
I think that we're going to find and it affects
us every single day.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
I feel like mum guilt is a truly wired thing,
like and as you are a mum, you're wiring completely changes.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Or even I was thinking, for example, with my first pregnancy,
all I could stomach was toasted cheese and tomato sandwiches,
and then I felt guilty that I wasn't eating a
range of nutrients because all I could eat was cheese, bread.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
My gosh, it starts, it starts so early and we'll
go into that later. But my gosh, there's some real
cans of worms to open in the guilt depart.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, we want to hear from dads, and we're actually
going to do that today, which I'm so excited for.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
She's got her interrogation ready to go, her intermigation because.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
We're actually going to chat to out this glorious mess
songwriter and Dada three Tom lyons.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
Well, she says, we're going to chat, but she's got
to intomigate him.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
I'm going to intermigate him because I want to find
and really understand in heterosexual relationships, do they notice their
partners carrying more guilt or even care?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
See that's the interesting part.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Like I say to my husband all the time, like,
oh my god, I feel so guilty, and he'd be
like why, Like he just can't even fathom what I
would feel guilty about, let alone feel guilty himself. Like
he doesn't even understand my guilt.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
It's not even a thought factor.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
If one of my kids are upset and we go
out for dinner or something, I'd be like, oh, I
feel really bad, Like why.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Like what do you mean why?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Yes, first foughtigus I would like to dive into what's
happening in my group chat. Recently, I went on a
little cruise holiday.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Oh did you ever?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I did?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I watched it unfold yes on the Instagram.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Watch what happens live otherwise on his analytics' Instagram stories.
And I went with my sons and my mum and
it was beautiful and we had fun. But what I
realized was I was sitting by the pool and having
a little day cocktail and I just didn't have to
do anything. And the kids ran around and they had
found holiday friends and started a new little commune. And
(04:21):
I thought, this is the ideal mum holiday. And I
sent a group to my girlfriends and I said, we
need to come on a cruise. No men allowed, women
and children only and just lie by the pool and
let the kids just do all the things and you
don't have to think how did they react? Because there
are cruise people's and there are not cruise people. Surprisingly,
one of my poodle friends, who I thought would not
(04:43):
be a cruise person, said, I've just spoken to my sons.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
They're keene. I think we should do it.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
I have been longing for a cruise, like my husband
is so not.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
A cruiserh my god, we'll go together.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
What I want to do is go on a cruise. Yes,
I want buffet.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Breakfast, no cooking, no cleaning, no washing, no thinking.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
I want a slippery dip thing on all the kids
stuff that happens, shows and bingos by night.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Group work and circle work on the dance floor.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
Oh, it's just everything in one place. I don't even
have to drive anywhere.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
You're stuck in a boat with me.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Okay, maybe I'm not a groupers anymore.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
The evolution of mum guilt, which we have decided we
hate that phrase.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Well, it just is what it is.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I know, but I don't want it to be.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But it is, But it is. It's a thing. It's
not going away.
Speaker 5 (05:35):
Even if there was the guilt bin, it would all
just still be sitting in the guilt.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Bin, bubbling and boiling over like yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
Like all together and like pondering and like an infection
spreading and multiplying.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yes, it's like COVID in a bit.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
You know, motherhood really opened a can of worms for
me because I was never a guilty person, because I'm
such a goody goody, like I never really did anything
to feel guilty about motherhood. I reckon, I feel guilty
every single day. Yeah, definitely, there's a level of guilt.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
And yeah, like I said, mine started from the toasted
cheese and tomato sandwiches when't Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
So same mine.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
So as soon as I found out I was having twins,
I was like, oh my god, am I gonna love
both of them enough?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I'm not gonna have enough love or maybe I'm not
gonna be moth of them enough.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
And then I had another one so quickly, so then
it was like more guilt, like three times guilt. And
then you feel so guilty that you need a break,
and then you feel guilty about going on a brain.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Yeah, you feel guilty because you want time away from them.
Then you get time away from them, and then you
feel guilty about sending time away from and then you
go back to work, which is lovely, but then you
feel really that's.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
When said, when I'm choosing the steam train of.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Guilt, I am choosing to do this over that, Like
that's when you're like guilt in.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
First dag and I remember, like, you know, scenes from
picking up my youngest from daycare and he was like
standing at the bars with his hands up screaming, and I.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Was like, they haunt you forever, kid jail. And I'm like,
how long has it we doing this? Just an hour
and a half. And I was like, oh, oh, you
could have liked you could have said thirty seconds.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
You know, I'll send me the text. He's fine now, yeah,
just something like that anyway.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
So then even now, so like we've talked about the
journey from the first moments of impregnation.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Guilt.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
I feel guilty that I gave my twelve year old
phone and he spends a lot of time on his phone.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I feel guilty about letting my youngest watch a lot
of YouTube.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yep. Same.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
I feel guilty when I miss something at school, like
an award or like.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
Oh they're the worst ones too, like because then they'll
be like, oh why can't you come mom, or like
oh you weren't there or.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
You missed it.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
The other day, like Benjo was getting an award and
he had walked himself into the principal's office and said, hey,
I'm getting a book award. Like book awards are like, sorry,
I'm gonna feel guilty about saying this, but not that
much of a big.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Deal, Like you just read.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
A certain amount of books.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
Like, yeah, now I tell guilty, but truly they're not
that much of a big deal. He'd gone into the
principal's office and said, Hey, I'm getting a book award.
Can you call my mum and tell us she's got
to come to assembly this sufternoon to watch for me
to get it. So the principal emailed me and was like, hey,
Banjo's just come in and asked me to tell you
to come to assembly.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
But I couldn't come. So then what did I do
all day?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Felt guilty?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Of course I did feel guilty all day.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
What was interesting becoming a single mum. It gave me
so much time back so that now when I do
things for myself, I don't have guilt because my kids aren't.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
There wasn't an option. It's like, oh, it's guilt free,
old free time.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
So that's that is a relief because I've got time
to do selfish things and I don't feel guilty about
In terms of the working mother's guilt, I do have
perspective on this. I was raised by a single mom
who worked a billion hours, like eighty.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Hour weeks, yeah, which is pretty rare.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, for the nineties.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
She had her own business and she worked a lot,
and I do have core memories of being a very
wingy child like me and my sister crying at the door.
She'd have clients over and we'd be like mum. And
I know that she's crippled with guilt from that time
and the time that she missed, and now she tries
to overcompensate with my kids.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And she's very, very very hands on her Grandmam when
she's around.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
I will say that as an adult reflecting on that time,
all I have is gratitude. I don't have memories of
being like, oh, I wish my mum was here, you know,
I wish mum was doing this. I don't have memories. Yes,
actually her missing out on you're.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
Now looking back going wow, what she sacrificed for us,
Like there's no bad. Oh she should feel really bad
because she wass she missed my book award.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
And I don't care about that now.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I can only just sort of live in gratitude and think, wow,
look what she did.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, the sad what she missed out on. Yeah, and
thank you mum.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
And I hope and for anyone listening who's a working
parent that is crippled by guilt.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I hope that really you get that.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Way off later in life when they're adults and they
realize what you did.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
Yeah, because I am a guilty colleague, I try to
remind myself that those are my feelings. Like no one's
making me feel bad or expecting me to feel bad,
do you know what I mean? Like no one said like, oh, well,
you didn't show up and I'm so so you should do.
But like you know what I mean, Like this is
all my creation of my own expectations. It's almost like
(10:27):
we're so hard on ourselves and how we expect to
be all the things all the time. Like we've got
to be there all the time. We've got to show
up every time, we've got to have the perfect meal
every time and stick to our boundaries. The guilt is
coming from within myself.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
And if you actually isolate the feeling, someone can't make
you feel guilty.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
No, it's completely from within yourself.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
But then that's when I need to realize to just
shut up.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Doesn't that mean if we can create it, can't we
squash it? Oh?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Well, live if you say so.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
We had a chat to some of the Muma Mere
dad's and partners friends. We put a call out to
this glorious mess listener, send us some of your dad
voices because we want to hear from dads.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Does your partner feel dad guilt?
Speaker 5 (11:13):
It's the same like do the men feel it? Our
men and women wired differently.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
And here's what they had to say.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I am sure that I have felt dad guilt.
Speaker 6 (11:23):
I can't think of the scenario.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Maybe when I've upset her for some reason and I
felt bad because she was crying.
Speaker 7 (11:29):
In the last couple of years, I spent a fair
amount of time working from home, and it's made me
realize how much I missed when I was in the
office every single day. The little conversations when they get
home from school, going to see their sports days, their parents' nights,
their assemblies, stuff that I never got to do while
I was working full time in an office because it
(11:49):
was just too much to be able to somehow get
home in time. But working from home has made me
appreciate moments like that, but also realize what I've missed
over the years. No, I don't feel any guilt.
Speaker 8 (12:02):
I do feel dad guilt because quite regularly I forget
which days of the week are sports uniform day versus
regular school uniform day, and after you're reminded constantly, I
forget what the boys are doing after school continuously, whether
it's football, whether it's basketball, whether it's swimming. Who would know?
But I do actually feel really guilty about that dad guilt.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
What is that guilt? So we wanted to hear from
the other side. We wanted to ask a man.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
We want the intel, the goths, the tea, and ask
a dad about his parental guilt, if he has any,
does it exist? Tom Lyon, welcome back to this glorious mess.
Speaker 6 (12:50):
Hello, it's so good to be back. I've been preparing
for today talking about mental load with my wife last night,
and I think, yeah, I've got a lot to learn,
but I'm here to share guys.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
So, Tom, do you get dad guilt? And if so,
on what type of issues.
Speaker 6 (13:08):
Do I get Dad?
Speaker 8 (13:09):
Well?
Speaker 6 (13:09):
Is the sky blue? I definitely get dad guilt. And
I have to say, like hearing you guys before, mum
guilt is far more pervasive than dad guilt. See everywhere
for you, guys, I see that trade wives, trand and
it's like you guys could be cooking a pasta. Are
you cooking that pasta from scratch, or did you buy
(13:30):
the shells from the shops? So I get it. It's
more pervasive for you guys, but for men, we definitely
get it in other areas. Not to get too deep,
but I think it can sometimes become a more dangerous emotion,
like shame, because we don't talk at all about this
(13:52):
sort of stuff. I push it back down. I store
my dad guilt in my appendix until I.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Can reach into your appendix and just like, give me
a couple of tangible examples of what you felt guilty about.
Speaker 6 (14:06):
Yeah, So we work so much these days. Life is
so busy. I work from home, and my kids will
often come to my door and want to play because
they can't delineate when I'm working, when I'm not. Overall,
I feel awful that I am missing out on key
times with them, and I'm not connecting as much as
I would like, a little voice in my head will
(14:28):
be saying, you should have taught your three year old
how to do backstroke. By now, you know, it's just
an overriding feeling that I'm not with them enough, even
though objectively I know that I am.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
As you can.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
Yeah, I think presence would be a big one for
particularly dads, because in a lot of cases they are
the providers or often going off to work as well
and not being there must play that part quite a bit.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Can I ask you, do you feel guilty like if
you went out with your mates? Like would you be like, oh,
I feel bad for missing out of time with the
kids and going out in a boys' night.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
Funnily enough, not at all.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
See, this is the key difference.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
This is different. This is the key difference.
Speaker 6 (15:11):
Our brains are different, so that won't hit us, but
something more, I guess subconscious level. For us. In the
old days, how could get by on one income and
the man was the main provider. And because of the
world we live in now cost of living, that's not
attainable for most And my wife and I both have
(15:32):
big career dreams, so we wouldn't want it that way.
But for a lot of men, there's still this unspoken
expectation that we need to be the main provider so
that the family can kick back. Right now, an example,
I saw that something on my algorithm last night. It
might be a wealthy dad and for some reason, he's
(15:54):
not wearing a top in the video but he's like,
I've built wealth beyond my wildest dreams for my family,
so my wife can relax and every day I can
spend with my children. We've got a connection beyond words. Also,
I bench press one hundred kilos before the kids have
woken up every day because a father needs to be
(16:14):
a warrior, you know, objectively, I know that's unrealistic, but
that's the sort of stuff that is in the back
of my mind anyway all the time.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Right, and when men get together, like when you are
on your boys' night and you're not feeling guilty about
being on your boys' night away from the children, do
you sort.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Of sit around the mums at home with the child?
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Yeah, do you sit around and do you talk about
these feelings or do you talk about, oh, you know,
I feel bad I haven't seen the kids much lately,
or is it really just sport?
Speaker 6 (16:46):
Oh man, this is going to disappoint you. We don't like.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Really disappointing at all. It's what we expected.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
We're that surface level most of the time.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Okay, I've got one.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
Do you feel guilty when you do something for yourself?
So if you were like, oh, I've got us all back,
so I'm gonna pop out and get a massage, or like, oh,
I'm gonna go get a haircut because I'm jew or
you know what, I'm just gonna go to the movie,
Like there's this movie I want to see, So I'm
going to go go watch a movie.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
Yeah, I mean, when would I ever do that?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I don't know when I would. But I was getting
to the bottom of my example.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Something for yourself.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
If you're doing something like solely of your own benefit,
in your own time, by yourself self care.
Speaker 6 (17:39):
It's true. I've got a heavy self care routine that
I implement, but I do have like a ticking clock
in the back of my brain. So if I went
to get a haircut and I knew Jessica had the
kids at that point in time, I'm anxious to get
back home. Yeah, and I would find it hard to
relax in a massage.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I've got more. I've got more.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
Yeah, do you worry?
Speaker 5 (18:02):
It is an interrogation, Tom, Yes, sorry, Thomas is going
to be a casual chat.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
Another thing, Why am I strapped in this chair? What's
this helmet I'm wearing?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
What about things like?
Speaker 4 (18:19):
So these were other things we're talking about before Oh,
we're giving the kids too much screen time?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Are we rotting their brains on screens? Are they eating enough? Broccoly?
Are they nourish enough?
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Like do you sit around worrying about the things that
you're not doing enough of or providing enough on that
sort of tiny level and like micro level, do you
worry about that stuff?
Speaker 6 (18:37):
Definitely not. I so I worry about screen time. That's
massive for me because the research says too much of
it ain't good. But when it comes to food, in
comparison to my lovely wife Jessica, she will turn the
packet over, consider all the minutia of what is exactly
(18:57):
inside of it, and feel awful if we're giving them
a prepackaged dinner. And she really absorbs the brunt of
that guilt where that sort of stuff doesn't cross my mind. Yeah,
and I'm just being honest.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
That is good.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Has your wife ever pulled you up about the difference
in labor or difference in guilt or mental load and
all those things.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
Labor, no mental load. Absolutely, Like this is a huge
thing in our marriage. Even over the weekend we were
discussing it and I'm learning she's so awesome with a
big picture. You know she might be doing those little
annoying things like what's a childcare subsidy? Or when is
Jones KINDI start date, Donnie has a Carols night coming up,
(19:44):
and I might not even know about the Carols night
until we're in the car. But I am making a
huge effort. Here's an example. So I've got my big
list of things to do and labor around the place.
She's got her list of mental load, and I've said
to her, I'm happy to take your list away and
(20:05):
I'll do it. But it's her view that I'm still
not alleviating mental load if it's not an original thought.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
If she's got to write you a list, it's still
it's still her load.
Speaker 6 (20:18):
And in her delegating yeah, okay, that's still a work
on for me. But as far as labor, we're very
happy in that area. Like she does mornings with the children,
I do the witching hour. Because of our work, I
feel like that counts for double but that's another day.
I do all the fixing odd jobs around the house,
(20:40):
and then she might do a bit more of the planning.
But overall, mental load is yeah, it's a big factor,
and I'm still learning.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
Well, it sounds like you're giving it a really good crack,
so good on you.
Speaker 6 (20:53):
We're on a journey, aren't we.
Speaker 8 (20:55):
All.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Well, I feel like I've very much uncovered a lot
of behind the mind of a man.
Speaker 6 (21:01):
Yeah, the inner sanc thing in his world.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
There's not a lot of guilt going on.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
That's what I mean by the look on your face, Annalise,
there wasn't a single surprise in there.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
I just feel like it just comes down to wiring.
We're wired differently.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
We really are.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Absolutely are we wasting more mental load getting the shits
at men for them home? It's like, why don't we
just acknowledge we are wired differently? So let's think of
some productive things to do. Like you said, Okay, if
there's a bit of a list, I know it's not
fixing the problem that you're still having to think of
it first, but at least I can take a few
things off that list, Like that's helpful.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
So we need to rewire our brains to be more
like and literally, when we have that little pang of
guilt rising up in your chest, out of your tummy
into your heart, just push it down and say what
would Tom do?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Wwtt store it in your appendix.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Oh, and then, and then, and then get your appendix
removed and put it in the bin.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I don't know, appendix. Maybe that's why I have so
much guilt.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
No, mum, guilt's in the binch.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
We've solved it.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
You don't need it.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Thank you so much, Tommy for sharing your your life
and your lack of guilt and giving us a little
peek behind the curtaining to your marriage behind.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Tommy. Also, we are loving your.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Silly and glorious songs and so our this glorious miss listeners.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Please keep them coming.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
We're going to send you more challenges because it just
brings so much joy at a time when we all
really need it.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
I love doing it. I'm working on something for Christmas,
so and mental load as well, because that's a yeah,
that's a big thing. And I'm working on understanding Christmas
mental loads. So that's on the way.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
We love it already.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Well, I think that was great insight into even just
opening up the conversation with your partner. I know it,
Like I mentioned earlier, a lot of times I'm like,
oh my god, I feel so guilty and just like
what but just getting to understand each other's thought processes
about the mental load and about feeling guilt and maybe
how we can help each other. Yeah, I think I
think it's an important conversation. I'm sure people are not
(23:14):
having with their partners, Like Tom is one person, but
Tom's very very good. I think that is the question. Like,
that's what people can do, is like have a chat
with your partner, like do you feel guilt and if so, why,
and here's what I feel guilty about, and then you
can actually start to maybe help ease the burden of.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Each other's yet.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
And sometimes I like when I talk to Jason about
how I feel guilty and then when he's like so
like it kind of calms me down a bit because
I'm like, oh, okay, all right, I'll just put that
one back in my appendix.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
As Tom would say.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
So let's officially call it I'm guilt.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
I can't. I'm not sure if I can officially do.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
It, but I'll join the the way of risk the
pencil in an operation for appendix and roove on next.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Actually don't have any appendix. I'll join the ritual in
binning the guilt. Yes, but we might have to do
an update on whether or not it's working.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
It'll be an evolution. Yeah, I don't think this is
going to happen checking in six months.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
Well, thank you for listening to this glorious mess. We've
hoped you've binned your guilt and you've enjoyed the episode.
And if you've loved it, we hope you could leave
us a rating or review.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
And if you have a dilemma you'd like Sarah Marita
solve or even maybe a song from Tom or anything
else we can intommigate him on.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
We love intermmigating.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Tell us what we can intomigate him on next. You
can leave us a voice note by following the link
in the show notes, or get in touch at TGM
at mamamea dot com dot au, or find us on socials.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
This episode was produced by Grace we Breay with audio
production by Lou Hill.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Bye, see you next time.
So much.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Mumma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. We
have recorded this podcast on the Gadigul people of the
Eor nation. We pay our respects to their elders past
and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and
Torres Right islander cultures.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Hi It's analyse here from Muma MIA's parenting podcast, This
Glorious Mess.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Do you get mum guilt? I'm sure you.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Do, whether it's about what you feel like you haven't done,
or maybe it's about the things you have done, like
a weekend away or.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Just taking time for you.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
I'm dropping into your fee today to share an episode
of This Glorious Mess all about mum guilt and to
get the full perspective. We've invited a dad on the
show to ask if he gets dad guilt. The answers
will probably not shock you, but in some ways they
also will surprise you. This is this glorious mess, and
(01:20):
guilt can get.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
In the bin.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Hello, and welcome to this Glorious Mess. We're embracing the
chaos together, ditching the judgment. I'm Anali's todd and as
well as.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Ditching the judgment.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
We hope by the end of this episode we're ditching
the guilt it needs to do on the bin Well,
I'm teaking to Tolly and I'm a guilt to Hollegu,
So I can't wait to find the guilt bin Well,
I'm gonna help you find a teased because today on
the show, we're diving into mum guilt, which.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I hate that. I hate that that's even a term.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Have you ever heard of dad guilt? No, no, you haven't.
So while parent guilt is real for everyone, there's a
unique type of guilt that many mothers experience, and it's
something that impacts women in ways that men often don't feel.
I think that we're going to find and it affects
us every single day.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
I feel like mum guilt is a truly wired thing,
like and as you are a mum, you're wiring completely changes.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Or even I was thinking, for example, with my first pregnancy,
all I could stomach was toasted cheese and tomato sandwiches,
and then I felt guilty that I wasn't eating a
range of nutrients because all I could eat was cheese, bread.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
My gosh, it starts, it starts so early and we'll
go into that later. But my gosh, there's some real
cans of worms to open in the guilt depart.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, we want to hear from dads, and we're actually
going to do that today, which I'm so excited for.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
She's got her interrogation ready to go, her intermigation because.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
We're actually going to chat to out this glorious mess
songwriter and Dada three Tom lyons.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
Well, she says, we're going to chat, but she's got
to intomigate him.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
I'm going to intermigate him because I want to find
and really understand in heterosexual relationships, do they notice their
partners carrying more guilt or even care?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
See that's the interesting part.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Like I say to my husband all the time, like,
oh my god, I feel so guilty, and he'd be
like why, Like he just can't even fathom what I
would feel guilty about, let alone feel guilty himself. Like
he doesn't even understand my guilt.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
It's not even a thought factor.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
If one of my kids are upset and we go
out for dinner or something, I'd be like, oh, I
feel really bad, Like why.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Like what do you mean why?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Yes, first foughtigus I would like to dive into what's
happening in my group chat. Recently, I went on a
little cruise holiday.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Oh did you ever?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I did?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I watched it unfold yes on the Instagram.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Watch what happens live otherwise on his analytics' Instagram stories.
And I went with my sons and my mum and
it was beautiful and we had fun. But what I
realized was I was sitting by the pool and having
a little day cocktail and I just didn't have to
do anything. And the kids ran around and they had
found holiday friends and started a new little commune. And
(04:21):
I thought, this is the ideal mum holiday. And I
sent a group to my girlfriends and I said, we
need to come on a cruise. No men allowed, women
and children only and just lie by the pool and
let the kids just do all the things and you
don't have to think how did they react? Because there
are cruise people's and there are not cruise people. Surprisingly,
one of my poodle friends, who I thought would not
(04:43):
be a cruise person, said, I've just spoken to my sons.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
They're keene. I think we should do it.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
I have been longing for a cruise, like my husband
is so not.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
A cruiserh my god, we'll go together.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
What I want to do is go on a cruise. Yes,
I want buffet.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Breakfast, no cooking, no cleaning, no washing, no thinking.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
I want a slippery dip thing on all the kids
stuff that happens, shows and bingos by night.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Group work and circle work on the dance floor.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
Oh, it's just everything in one place. I don't even
have to drive anywhere.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
You're stuck in a boat with me.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Okay, maybe I'm not a groupers anymore.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
The evolution of mum guilt, which we have decided we
hate that phrase.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Well, it just is what it is.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I know, but I don't want it to be.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But it is, But it is. It's a thing. It's
not going away.
Speaker 5 (05:35):
Even if there was the guilt bin, it would all
just still be sitting in the guilt.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Bin, bubbling and boiling over like yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
Like all together and like pondering and like an infection
spreading and multiplying.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yes, it's like COVID in a bit.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
You know, motherhood really opened a can of worms for
me because I was never a guilty person, because I'm
such a goody goody, like I never really did anything
to feel guilty about motherhood. I reckon, I feel guilty
every single day. Yeah, definitely, there's a level of guilt.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
And yeah, like I said, mine started from the toasted
cheese and tomato sandwiches when't Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
So same mine.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
So as soon as I found out I was having twins,
I was like, oh my god, am I gonna love
both of them enough?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I'm not gonna have enough love or maybe I'm not
gonna be moth of them enough.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
And then I had another one so quickly, so then
it was like more guilt, like three times guilt. And
then you feel so guilty that you need a break,
and then you feel guilty about going on a brain.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Yeah, you feel guilty because you want time away from them.
Then you get time away from them, and then you
feel guilty about sending time away from and then you
go back to work, which is lovely, but then you
feel really that's.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
When said, when I'm choosing the steam train of.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Guilt, I am choosing to do this over that, Like
that's when you're like guilt in.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
First dag and I remember, like, you know, scenes from
picking up my youngest from daycare and he was like
standing at the bars with his hands up screaming, and I.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Was like, they haunt you forever, kid jail. And I'm like,
how long has it we doing this? Just an hour
and a half. And I was like, oh, oh, you
could have liked you could have said thirty seconds.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
You know, I'll send me the text. He's fine now, yeah,
just something like that anyway.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
So then even now, so like we've talked about the
journey from the first moments of impregnation.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Guilt.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
I feel guilty that I gave my twelve year old
phone and he spends a lot of time on his phone.
Speaker 6 (07:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I feel guilty about letting my youngest watch a lot
of YouTube.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yep. Same.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
I feel guilty when I miss something at school, like
an award or like.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
Oh they're the worst ones too, like because then they'll
be like, oh why can't you come mom, or like
oh you weren't there or.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
You missed it.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
The other day, like Benjo was getting an award and
he had walked himself into the principal's office and said, hey,
I'm getting a book award. Like book awards are like, sorry,
I'm gonna feel guilty about saying this, but not that
much of a big.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Deal, Like you just read.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
A certain amount of books.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
Like, yeah, now I tell guilty, but truly they're not
that much of a big deal. He'd gone into the
principal's office and said, Hey, I'm getting a book award.
Can you call my mum and tell us she's got
to come to assembly this sufternoon to watch for me
to get it. So the principal emailed me and was like, hey,
Banjo's just come in and asked me to tell you
to come to assembly.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
But I couldn't come. So then what did I do
all day?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Felt guilty?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Of course I did feel guilty all day.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
What was interesting becoming a single mum. It gave me
so much time back so that now when I do
things for myself, I don't have guilt because my kids aren't.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
There wasn't an option. It's like, oh, it's guilt free,
old free time.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
So that's that is a relief because I've got time
to do selfish things and I don't feel guilty about
In terms of the working mother's guilt, I do have
perspective on this. I was raised by a single mom
who worked a billion hours, like eighty.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Hour weeks, yeah, which is pretty rare.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, for the nineties.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
She had her own business and she worked a lot,
and I do have core memories of being a very
wingy child like me and my sister crying at the door.
She'd have clients over and we'd be like mum. And
I know that she's crippled with guilt from that time
and the time that she missed, and now she tries
to overcompensate with my kids.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And she's very, very very hands on her Grandmam when
she's around.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
I will say that as an adult reflecting on that time,
all I have is gratitude. I don't have memories of
being like, oh, I wish my mum was here, you know,
I wish mum was doing this. I don't have memories. Yes,
actually her missing out on you're.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
Now looking back going wow, what she sacrificed for us,
Like there's no bad. Oh she should feel really bad
because she wass she missed my book award.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
And I don't care about that now.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I can only just sort of live in gratitude and think, wow,
look what she did.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, the sad what she missed out on. Yeah, and
thank you mum.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
And I hope and for anyone listening who's a working
parent that is crippled by guilt.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I hope that really you get that.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Way off later in life when they're adults and they
realize what you did.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
Yeah, because I am a guilty colleague, I try to
remind myself that those are my feelings. Like no one's
making me feel bad or expecting me to feel bad,
do you know what I mean? Like no one said like, oh, well,
you didn't show up and I'm so so you should do.
But like you know what I mean, Like this is
all my creation of my own expectations. It's almost like
(10:27):
we're so hard on ourselves and how we expect to
be all the things all the time. Like we've got
to be there all the time. We've got to show
up every time, we've got to have the perfect meal
every time and stick to our boundaries. The guilt is
coming from within myself.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
And if you actually isolate the feeling, someone can't make
you feel guilty.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
No, it's completely from within yourself.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
But then that's when I need to realize to just
shut up.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Doesn't that mean if we can create it, can't we
squash it? Oh?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Well, live if you say so.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
We had a chat to some of the Muma Mere
dad's and partners friends. We put a call out to
this glorious mess listener, send us some of your dad
voices because we want to hear from dads.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Does your partner feel dad guilt?
Speaker 5 (11:13):
It's the same like do the men feel it? Our
men and women wired differently.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
And here's what they had to say.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I am sure that I have felt dad guilt.
Speaker 6 (11:23):
I can't think of the scenario.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Maybe when I've upset her for some reason and I
felt bad because she was crying.
Speaker 7 (11:29):
In the last couple of years, I spent a fair
amount of time working from home, and it's made me
realize how much I missed when I was in the
office every single day. The little conversations when they get
home from school, going to see their sports days, their parents' nights,
their assemblies, stuff that I never got to do while
I was working full time in an office because it
(11:49):
was just too much to be able to somehow get
home in time. But working from home has made me
appreciate moments like that, but also realize what I've missed
over the years. No, I don't feel any guilt.
Speaker 8 (12:02):
I do feel dad guilt because quite regularly I forget
which days of the week are sports uniform day versus
regular school uniform day, and after you're reminded constantly, I
forget what the boys are doing after school continuously, whether
it's football, whether it's basketball, whether it's swimming. Who would know?
But I do actually feel really guilty about that dad guilt.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
What is that guilt? So we wanted to hear from
the other side. We wanted to ask a man.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
We want the intel, the goths, the tea, and ask
a dad about his parental guilt, if he has any,
does it exist? Tom Lyon, welcome back to this glorious mess.
Speaker 6 (12:50):
Hello, it's so good to be back. I've been preparing
for today talking about mental load with my wife last night,
and I think, yeah, I've got a lot to learn,
but I'm here to share guys.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
So, Tom, do you get dad guilt? And if so,
on what type of issues.
Speaker 6 (13:08):
Do I get Dad?
Speaker 8 (13:09):
Well?
Speaker 6 (13:09):
Is the sky blue? I definitely get dad guilt. And
I have to say, like hearing you guys before, mum
guilt is far more pervasive than dad guilt. See everywhere
for you, guys, I see that trade wives, trand and
it's like you guys could be cooking a pasta. Are
you cooking that pasta from scratch, or did you buy
(13:30):
the shells from the shops? So I get it. It's
more pervasive for you guys, but for men, we definitely
get it in other areas. Not to get too deep,
but I think it can sometimes become a more dangerous emotion,
like shame, because we don't talk at all about this
(13:52):
sort of stuff. I push it back down. I store
my dad guilt in my appendix until I.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Can reach into your appendix and just like, give me
a couple of tangible examples of what you felt guilty about.
Speaker 6 (14:06):
Yeah, So we work so much these days. Life is
so busy. I work from home, and my kids will
often come to my door and want to play because
they can't delineate when I'm working, when I'm not. Overall,
I feel awful that I am missing out on key
times with them, and I'm not connecting as much as
I would like, a little voice in my head will
(14:28):
be saying, you should have taught your three year old
how to do backstroke. By now, you know, it's just
an overriding feeling that I'm not with them enough, even
though objectively I know that I am.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
As you can.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
Yeah, I think presence would be a big one for
particularly dads, because in a lot of cases they are
the providers or often going off to work as well
and not being there must play that part quite a bit.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Can I ask you, do you feel guilty like if
you went out with your mates? Like would you be like, oh,
I feel bad for missing out of time with the
kids and going out in a boys' night.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
Funnily enough, not at all.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
See, this is the key difference.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
This is different. This is the key difference.
Speaker 6 (15:11):
Our brains are different, so that won't hit us, but
something more, I guess subconscious level. For us. In the
old days, how could get by on one income and
the man was the main provider. And because of the
world we live in now cost of living, that's not
attainable for most And my wife and I both have
(15:32):
big career dreams, so we wouldn't want it that way.
But for a lot of men, there's still this unspoken
expectation that we need to be the main provider so
that the family can kick back. Right now, an example,
I saw that something on my algorithm last night. It
might be a wealthy dad and for some reason, he's
(15:54):
not wearing a top in the video but he's like,
I've built wealth beyond my wildest dreams for my family,
so my wife can relax and every day I can
spend with my children. We've got a connection beyond words. Also,
I bench press one hundred kilos before the kids have
woken up every day because a father needs to be
(16:14):
a warrior, you know, objectively, I know that's unrealistic, but
that's the sort of stuff that is in the back
of my mind anyway all the time.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Right, and when men get together, like when you are
on your boys' night and you're not feeling guilty about
being on your boys' night away from the children, do
you sort.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Of sit around the mums at home with the child?
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Yeah, do you sit around and do you talk about
these feelings or do you talk about, oh, you know,
I feel bad I haven't seen the kids much lately,
or is it really just sport?
Speaker 6 (16:46):
Oh man, this is going to disappoint you. We don't like.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Really disappointing at all. It's what we expected.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
We're that surface level most of the time.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Okay, I've got one.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
Do you feel guilty when you do something for yourself?
So if you were like, oh, I've got us all back,
so I'm gonna pop out and get a massage, or like, oh,
I'm gonna go get a haircut because I'm jew or
you know what, I'm just gonna go to the movie,
Like there's this movie I want to see, So I'm
going to go go watch a movie.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
Yeah, I mean, when would I ever do that?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I don't know when I would. But I was getting
to the bottom of my example.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Something for yourself.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
If you're doing something like solely of your own benefit,
in your own time, by yourself self care.
Speaker 6 (17:39):
It's true. I've got a heavy self care routine that
I implement, but I do have like a ticking clock
in the back of my brain. So if I went
to get a haircut and I knew Jessica had the
kids at that point in time, I'm anxious to get
back home. Yeah, and I would find it hard to
relax in a massage.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I've got more. I've got more.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
Yeah, do you worry?
Speaker 5 (18:02):
It is an interrogation, Tom, Yes, sorry, Thomas is going
to be a casual chat.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
Another thing, Why am I strapped in this chair? What's
this helmet I'm wearing?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
What about things like?
Speaker 4 (18:19):
So these were other things we're talking about before Oh,
we're giving the kids too much screen time?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Are we rotting their brains on screens? Are they eating enough? Broccoly?
Are they nourish enough?
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Like do you sit around worrying about the things that
you're not doing enough of or providing enough on that
sort of tiny level and like micro level, do you
worry about that stuff?
Speaker 6 (18:37):
Definitely not. I so I worry about screen time. That's
massive for me because the research says too much of
it ain't good. But when it comes to food, in
comparison to my lovely wife Jessica, she will turn the
packet over, consider all the minutia of what is exactly
(18:57):
inside of it, and feel awful if we're giving them
a prepackaged dinner. And she really absorbs the brunt of
that guilt where that sort of stuff doesn't cross my mind. Yeah,
and I'm just being honest.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
That is good.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Has your wife ever pulled you up about the difference
in labor or difference in guilt or mental load and
all those things.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
Labor, no mental load. Absolutely, Like this is a huge
thing in our marriage. Even over the weekend we were
discussing it and I'm learning she's so awesome with a
big picture. You know she might be doing those little
annoying things like what's a childcare subsidy? Or when is
Jones KINDI start date, Donnie has a Carols night coming up,
(19:44):
and I might not even know about the Carols night
until we're in the car. But I am making a
huge effort. Here's an example. So I've got my big
list of things to do and labor around the place.
She's got her list of mental load, and I've said
to her, I'm happy to take your list away and
(20:05):
I'll do it. But it's her view that I'm still
not alleviating mental load if it's not an original thought.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
If she's got to write you a list, it's still
it's still her load.
Speaker 6 (20:18):
And in her delegating yeah, okay, that's still a work
on for me. But as far as labor, we're very
happy in that area. Like she does mornings with the children,
I do the witching hour. Because of our work, I
feel like that counts for double but that's another day.
I do all the fixing odd jobs around the house,
(20:40):
and then she might do a bit more of the planning.
But overall, mental load is yeah, it's a big factor,
and I'm still learning.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
Well, it sounds like you're giving it a really good crack,
so good on you.
Speaker 6 (20:53):
We're on a journey, aren't we.
Speaker 8 (20:55):
All.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Well, I feel like I've very much uncovered a lot
of behind the mind of a man.
Speaker 6 (21:01):
Yeah, the inner sanc thing in his world.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
There's not a lot of guilt going on.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
That's what I mean by the look on your face, Annalise,
there wasn't a single surprise in there.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
I just feel like it just comes down to wiring.
We're wired differently.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
We really are.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Absolutely are we wasting more mental load getting the shits
at men for them home? It's like, why don't we
just acknowledge we are wired differently? So let's think of
some productive things to do. Like you said, Okay, if
there's a bit of a list, I know it's not
fixing the problem that you're still having to think of
it first, but at least I can take a few
things off that list, Like that's helpful.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
So we need to rewire our brains to be more
like and literally, when we have that little pang of
guilt rising up in your chest, out of your tummy
into your heart, just push it down and say what
would Tom do?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Wwtt store it in your appendix.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Oh, and then, and then, and then get your appendix
removed and put it in the bin.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I don't know, appendix. Maybe that's why I have so
much guilt.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
No, mum, guilt's in the binch.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
We've solved it.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
You don't need it.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Thank you so much, Tommy for sharing your your life
and your lack of guilt and giving us a little
peek behind the curtaining to your marriage behind.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Tommy. Also, we are loving your.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Silly and glorious songs and so our this glorious miss listeners.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Please keep them coming.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
We're going to send you more challenges because it just
brings so much joy at a time when we all
really need it.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
I love doing it. I'm working on something for Christmas,
so and mental load as well, because that's a yeah,
that's a big thing. And I'm working on understanding Christmas
mental loads. So that's on the way.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
We love it already.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Well, I think that was great insight into even just
opening up the conversation with your partner. I know it,
Like I mentioned earlier, a lot of times I'm like,
oh my god, I feel so guilty and just like
what but just getting to understand each other's thought processes
about the mental load and about feeling guilt and maybe
how we can help each other. Yeah, I think I
think it's an important conversation. I'm sure people are not
(23:14):
having with their partners, Like Tom is one person, but
Tom's very very good. I think that is the question. Like,
that's what people can do, is like have a chat
with your partner, like do you feel guilt and if so, why,
and here's what I feel guilty about, and then you
can actually start to maybe help ease the burden of.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Each other's yet.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
And sometimes I like when I talk to Jason about
how I feel guilty and then when he's like so
like it kind of calms me down a bit because
I'm like, oh, okay, all right, I'll just put that
one back in my appendix.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
As Tom would say.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
So let's officially call it I'm guilt.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
I can't. I'm not sure if I can officially do.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
It, but I'll join the the way of risk the
pencil in an operation for appendix and roove on next.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Actually don't have any appendix. I'll join the ritual in
binning the guilt. Yes, but we might have to do
an update on whether or not it's working.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
It'll be an evolution. Yeah, I don't think this is
going to happen checking in six months.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
Well, thank you for listening to this glorious mess. We've
hoped you've binned your guilt and you've enjoyed the episode.
And if you've loved it, we hope you could leave
us a rating or review.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
And if you have a dilemma you'd like Sarah Marita
solve or even maybe a song from Tom or anything
else we can intommigate him on.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
We love intermmigating.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Tell us what we can intomigate him on next. You
can leave us a voice note by following the link
in the show notes, or get in touch at TGM
at mamamea dot com dot au, or find us on socials.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
This episode was produced by Grace we Breay with audio
production by Lou Hill.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Bye, see you next time.
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