October 9, 2025 • 32 mins
When Saara Lampwalla left her corporate role to build something of her own, she entered a season defined by visibility, vulnerability, and the courage to be seen in a new light. In this episode, David and Saara explore what it means to align your inner values with how you show up in the world — and how that alignment shapes both your fulfillment and your freedom.
Key Takeaways
- Visibility is a double-edged sword — it can both empower and intimidate.
- Aligning inner values with outer expression builds authentic leadership.
- Transitioning from corporate to personal work takes courage and experimentation.
- Being seen and being perceived are not the same thing.
- Redefining success on your own terms leads to fulfillment.
Chapters
00:00 – Exploring Visibility and Authenticity
01:56 – Transitioning from Corporate to Personal Paths
05:04 – Balancing Public and Private Selves
07:04 – Aligning Internal and External Values
09:10 – Embracing Authenticity in Professional Spaces
11:51 – Redefining Success on Personal Terms
13:57 – The Power of Being Seen
17:12 – Navigating Professional Growth
19:39 – The Journey to Personal Fulfillment
26:53 – The Courage to Be Seen
Credits & Links
Host: David Sherry
Guest: Saara Lampwalla
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David Sherry (00:00):
I'm thinking we'll start is, you know, what's the
(00:03):
what's the piece or area that ismost interesting for us to
explore today?
Saara Lampwalla (00:09):
It's yeah, being seen being perceived one.
And then it's shedding light onlike what's going on in my life
two. And then three, it's beingmore publicly visible and in the
messiness of a transition. Youknow, I'm so used to looking
like I have my shit together.
David Sherry (00:27):
And
Saara Lampwalla (00:29):
this is a time where it's not to say that I
always do have my shit togetherand I feel like I'm per like
pretty transparent about wherethe messiness is in my life and
interpersonal
David Sherry (00:37):
not having your shit together look like? What
does that mean?
Saara Lampwalla (00:41):
Like, being in the process of, you know, in in
a transition of not reallyknowing, like, basically what
feels like a soul call to leavemy corporate job and to pursue
something on my own, which isthat what I've felt is aligned
my entire life and then doing itbut not necessarily having a
clear vision as to what that endproduct is. And I also view it
(01:03):
as like a series of milestonesbut not even knowing what the
next branch is. You know, it'slike Tarzan swinging from one
branch to another branch, butnot knowing like what is the
other branch, where is it going.
David Sherry (01:13):
You made the leap. And now what's what's the next
branch that you're reaching for?And how do other people see
what's it like if people see youwhen you haven't reached out for
that next branch yet? Or they oryou perceive that they're seeing
you that, hey, this persondoesn't know what that next
branch is.
Saara Lampwalla (01:31):
Mhmm. And how to communicate about, like, how
to communicate about like that.Like, such an is the word
amorphous kind of time or likestate? It's like a state almost.
It's just like every day, everyweek kind of like waking up and
it's like, well, what is beingpresented to me internally and
externally?
And like, how do I respond tothose things in a way that feels
(01:53):
like it's getting closer to thenext branch?
David Sherry (01:56):
Mhmm. So maybe what we can look for today a
little bit is what is that nextbranch because I'm hearing the
lack of clarity for yourself andthen also publicly feels feels
difficult. I am curious first,though, what is what does having
your shit together look like?Like, what is that who has their
shit together? What are theydoing?
(02:16):
What does that mean? I
Saara Lampwalla (02:18):
mean, contributing to a visible
outcome that has shared positiveimpact and reach probably.
David Sherry (02:26):
So someone who has their shit together is
contributing to a public andshared outcome that has positive
reach?
Saara Lampwalla (02:34):
Yeah. Like in it, I'm thinking of a team
context.
David Sherry (02:40):
When was the last time you looked like you had
your shit together?
Saara Lampwalla (02:43):
I mean, theoretically in corporate.
Right? Like, you're on a path.
David Sherry (02:47):
What was for you?
Saara Lampwalla (02:49):
Internally, was a mess because I knew I was
living in contradiction for solong, like for years, and it was
very painful in my day to dayexperience. But on paper, I was
on a trajectory. I was buildingthings that were impacting
people. I was contributing to agreater whole Even if I didn't
care about, like, the end to toa degree, like, the actual
(03:09):
outcomes I cared about makingpeople's lives easier that I
worked with and otherwisecontributing to a system and
helping it scale. And, like,having a it wasn't a defined
role, but like kind of beingable to define my role within
that organization and, yeah,seeing how it could fit into the
broader picture or how it didfit into the broader picture.
So yeah, I just felt and I alsoworked in politics and that was
(03:31):
definitely ingrained in theculture. Mhmm.
David Sherry (03:34):
What was ingrained in the culture and politics? I I
don't know.
Saara Lampwalla (03:37):
Appearance. And we worked remotely too. So it
was like, okay. What making youraccomplishments visible. I
actually wasn't I don't thinkthat good at it.
But the nature of my work,again, like kind of preferring
to be in the back end at times.But again, my work was very
visible because I was second tothe CEO and I started a
department that was very activeand that they wanted to
(03:58):
emphasize. And I was always justcoming up with new projects that
were making its way to the restof the team where I had to teach
on them or announce them or giveupdates on them and things,
like, a weekly basis.
David Sherry (04:09):
Very visible. Very visible. And defined. Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (04:15):
I mean, I was defining it. But, yeah, it was
defined within the construct ofan organization and, like, what
that organization was trying todo. And then me saying, okay.
Well, this is an area that wecan move towards per se.
David Sherry (04:27):
What I'm hearing is you're sort of looking for
this unification of before, itwas very visible. It was in a
team context. It was moredefined. But internally, you
were feeling very misaligned.And then now, maybe you're
feeling aligned and sort of onpurpose, but now you're missing
the external.
So you're you've done theoutward appearance thing. It
(04:49):
just previously was notsomething that you inside felt
totally aligned about. Right? Soyou're trying to unify maybe
these things together a littlebit?
Saara Lampwalla (05:00):
Yeah. I guess so.
David Sherry (05:01):
And so the visibility you're in this
practice now of how do I makemyself more visible if I'm not
fully figured out in this newrole that I'm in yet. And also,
maybe it's a little scary tomake yourself visible when it's
something that's more meaningfulfor you externally.
Saara Lampwalla (05:19):
Yeah. Especially in like a
professional context where a lotof my work and probably what I'm
moving towards, I feel like ithas to be more mystical. Like, I
just feel like it's thisinextricable part of me and it's
like where my gifts are.
David Sherry (05:33):
I'm Part of
Saara Lampwalla (05:35):
Yeah. And then it's which is like inherently
elusive and then fitting thatinto a professional context. Not
necessarily sometimes throughofferings, but even like chief
of staff stuff like technicallymore corporate, but I'd wanna
work with more consciousfounders. I feel like that would
be an aligned way of doing it.But yeah, it's like me capturing
(05:56):
that within say a LinkedIn postfeels weird, especially because
800 of my connections are allfrom my former life and didn't
really know any, like, aboutthis at all.
Like, I would talk about itwithin a team context maybe like
twice in my eight years there.
David Sherry (06:11):
Uh-huh.
Saara Lampwalla (06:12):
You know? And it was kind of obvious, think,
by how I carried myself, but Iwas wearing my mask.
David Sherry (06:18):
Mhmm. Taking a vulnerable thing and putting it
out there in a context thatyou're not sure exactly how how
it's gonna be received. Mhmm.You know?
Saara Lampwalla (06:28):
I think one layer to add into that is also
this past year has been a lot oflearning how to even communicate
about these things because formost of my life, I just was kind
of taking in information andmaybe journaling about it. But I
wasn't actually I didn't reallyhave community to talk about it
with. So it's definitely beenlike, I felt felt like a
toddler, like, learning to standand to walk with how it's even
(06:49):
communicated about such abstractconcepts and in a way that
resonates with people,especially, I think, business
minded people because those arethe people that I tend to
gravitate towards. And I think,like, fit into a medley of my
client or, like, the client basefor the medley of offerings.
David Sherry (07:04):
Yeah. What I'm hearing is, and this is moving
forward and it relates to whatyou've brought up, the practice
that you're in is puttingyourself out there in this
external way, maybe on LinkedInor other places, and seeing how
that's received. How has thatbeen received so far? Or do you
(07:25):
feel like you're stoppingyourself? Because you also
mentioned you wake up, you havethese ideas, you're coming up
with the ideas in your head, thesub sec post or the name for
something, but other peoplearen't seeing it.
So when when does it stop? Wherewhere does that process start
and then get kind of stoppedfrom happening of putting
yourself out there?
Saara Lampwalla (07:44):
I mean, have been edging into it. I'm I've
been publishing. I took a breakfrom Substack but I would say it
stops when I feel more like anold belief kind of come up I
don't basically wanna deal withit. I'm let me see. Like it
doesn't matter anyway.
Like I I don't need
David Sherry (08:04):
to What be doesn't matter anyway?
Saara Lampwalla (08:07):
Like, doing something that's challenging. So
for example, emotionallychallenging. So for example,
posting to LinkedIn. Feel likethree people in the past week
have, like, been, post toLinkedIn.
David Sherry (08:17):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (08:17):
Which is a lot for my generator to respond to.
Know, like, oh, this does feellike a whenever I feel something
uncomfortable, I generally dopush through it and, like, do
the uncomfortable thing. But Ithink because there's been so
many uncomfortable things,sometimes I am selective.
David Sherry (08:33):
You're right. You're protecting yourself from
Yeah. Too much all at once.
Saara Lampwalla (08:37):
Yeah. Or even like another even more tangible
example. It's like, okay,embodying the identity of a
business owner. So one exampleis being visible in a public or
like a professional public, youknow, sphere like in LinkedIn
and publishing accomplishments,doing outreach, all that stuff.
Another example is, like,opening my freaking business
bank account.
(08:57):
Like, I still haven't done that.And that's an example of, oh, it
doesn't matter anyway. I shouldjust get the revenue first even
though already did the LLC andEIN, whatever. Like, it's just
taken me a long time to feellike it's worth prioritizing
these super simple tasks.
David Sherry (09:10):
So you start doing something that would be a step
along the path of what you wantpost to LinkedIn, open the
account, and then this I don'tdoesn't matter anyway, shows up
and slows you down and preventsyou from doing it. And and what
is that what is that doing foryou? It's protecting it's
protecting you making yourselfvisible or
Saara Lampwalla (09:33):
I view it as risk management.
David Sherry (09:35):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (09:36):
On the bank side, on the visibility side,
maybe I'll just go back to thatfocus. I think it's protecting
me from like the nervous system.I think my nervous system is
where you're saying when does itstop? It's like a nervous system
dysregulation of varyingdegrees, but depending on what
the thing is. But with thevisibility thing, it's like, you
know, posting and then gettingengagement on it or comments or
(09:59):
whatever and then just feelingthe eyeballs Mhmm.
On me. And then I just feel alittle bit like yeah. It just
feels like a little scattered
David Sherry (10:07):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (10:08):
In my my system.
David Sherry (10:09):
Mhmm. So even after you post and you you get
views, do you want the views oryou don't want the views? Would
you want the comments?
Saara Lampwalla (10:18):
Yes. And I feel like that's something that's
also contradictory is that Iactually do like visibility.
David Sherry (10:22):
What do you like about that? What do you what
comments do you like seeing?What engagement is something
that you want? I understandthese things maybe you don't
want. What would you want?
Saara Lampwalla (10:34):
The feeling or if it's a feeling of
receptivity, like somethinglanding. So for example, when I
announced the chief of staffwork that I would be doing, I
remember somebody I don't reallytalk to messaged and said, like,
this is such a need in themarket. So it's just kind of
like that resident feeling likemutual resonance. So somebody
who in my mind who, like, knowshis shit being like, oh, this is
(10:55):
actually needed in themarketplace felt really like
part stand out to me among theother comments I
David Sherry (11:00):
got. Mhmm. Right. And so you're part of that
equation is what's needed tocreate that resonance is for you
to put something out there forthat to be possible when it
happens, it feels good. Maybewhen you feel that someone else
isn't necessarily seeing it inthe way that you're wanting or
resonating, that doesn't feelgood.
And I think there is a a factwith online life that that we
(11:23):
can't control necessarily howwho, how is this gonna be
received. And like, maybe thatsurprise that you felt was like,
actually that I'm surprised thatresonated in that way for that
person. And that feels good.Right? What I what I think is
gonna be most helpful, we'retalking about this sort of
internal challenge from beforein the job, but you were very
(11:45):
visible.
So you know what that practiceis like. It just wasn't grounded
in this internal alignment. Nowyou're outside of that, you made
this leap, and now the internalis starting to feel like it's
there, but you're worried about,well, people aren't seeing it
visibly. Right? So theunification of these two is sort
of what you're what you'relooking for.
Let me pause for a second. Whatis there anything coming up from
(12:06):
what I'm sharing or anything youwanna say about that?
Saara Lampwalla (12:10):
Yeah. Something did come up of this sense of
performing and how I reallydon't like it. So even at my
corporate job, even though I wasdoing something very visible
David Sherry (12:21):
Performing meaning?
Saara Lampwalla (12:23):
Meaning like having to contort.
David Sherry (12:25):
Because why? Because
Saara Lampwalla (12:27):
I felt like it was what was yeah. It was like
what was expected of me. Buteven more than that, it's like
kind of like what the role I wasfitting. Like, was presenting as
a square. I was being a squarewithin that organization.
I had to present as a square.Does that make sense?
David Sherry (12:42):
Do you do you had to or you don't you've you've
felt that you had to?
Saara Lampwalla (12:48):
I felt like I had to but it was the nature of
the work like talking aboutstuff I think is so boring.
Like, you know what I mean?There's only so yeah. Like to
me, it would like it was likesucking the life force out of me
to like talk about these reallystructured archaic to me or not
archaic, but just really likething things that I just could
not care less about.
David Sherry (13:06):
So there wasn't actually a care there, you know,
and that's good to recognize.
Saara Lampwalla (13:12):
Yeah. Aside from, like, improving something
that was so clunky and then theimpact that had on people, yeah,
I didn't actually care about thework. And it was a lot of work,
a lot of, like, elbow grease andthat I had to put into it. That
was just fundamentally like lifezapping.
David Sherry (13:27):
Right. So you don't wanna perf you don't wanna
perform anymore. This is part ofthis what you're wanting in the
future is that that's a state Idon't wanna be in again in that
same way.
Saara Lampwalla (13:37):
Yeah. And I think to to tie it to the
present is that in this timethat feels so amorphous that
defining it through even asingle LinkedIn post. I know
that's so dramatic. But I thinkthat's like part of the
emotional route is like
David Sherry (13:49):
Yeah. Trying to
Saara Lampwalla (13:49):
define it within a single I
David Sherry (13:51):
got you.
Saara Lampwalla (13:51):
Trying to present as a square Right. Again
just feels stifling.
David Sherry (13:55):
So here's here's the piece then. Right? This is I
think the key area. We talkedabout knowing what that next
branch is. If I could see whatthe next branch is, if I could
communicate what the next branchis, then I would know for myself
what I'm working on, and itsolves a lot of things, right?
If I know the What next I'mhearing though is that if you
don't try on ideas there whileyou're finding it, which is very
(14:19):
normal for this process thatyou're you don't know and you
actually have to try things on.And I think what I'm hearing a
little bit too is that when youdo that, it feels again like
you're performing before, likelike it was before, and then now
that's stopping you from tryingthings. And so the way forward
is defining what this nextbranch is. And how to do that is
(14:42):
practicing and testing andhaving it not be the right
thing. So it doesn't need to beso fixed as this is the next
branch permanently.
I'm always gonna this is alwaysgonna be it. We do have to try
it out. And I think that whenthat feels like performing to
you, it maybe is part of whatyou shy away from. Does that
kinda make sense what I'msaying?
Saara Lampwalla (15:03):
Yeah. I feel like I am trying so many things.
The latest is just like aLinkedIn post.
David Sherry (15:08):
But how many of those things are visible and
public? That's what I'm saying.That it's in the it's in that
arena that stating this is mynext rung, and letting that not
have to be the thing that ispermanent, that you can do that
again the next week, and it canbe a new thing, and that's okay.
And that's actually prettynormal for the process for
entrepreneurs. Would evenencourage you to ask and talk
(15:30):
with entrepreneurs about theiterations of what they started
with and what they are doingtoday because I think that's a
really common experience is thatI'm telling everybody it's this
thing, and then through learningin real life, in real
conversation, which I think isanother opportunity for you is
to practice not just digitally,but also in any conversation at
lunch.
(15:50):
Here's my next thing, just stateit and just explore it with
them. And that gives you alsofeedback for the concept itself,
market feedback in a way. Butthen change it as you realize
it's something different. Ithink that practice is the thing
that's gonna clarify that foryou. I'm curious what you what
you think about that.
Saara Lampwalla (16:09):
Yeah. And you saying that just kind of made me
tie together that the feeling Ihave online is similar to what
I've had in person. Up untillike the past month, I was just
saying like, oh, I'm doingwhatever like, trying to figure
out. So what I'm gonna say andlately I've just been saying,
oh, I'm transitioning out ofsabbatical and I do this, this
and this. And that's felt a lotbetter whenever I was like kind
(16:32):
of grabbing for what how todescribe what I'm doing in
person because I do like meet alot of new people and go to a
lot of events and stuff.
I was just feeling like thatsame kind of almost like a shame
feeling of like, I don't knowwhat I'm doing and it's so
obvious, you know.
David Sherry (16:46):
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. But saying it it sounds
counterintuitive, but I thinksaying and trying on something
that is does come from what'sinside. I mean, you don't wanna
just pick up some random thingthat that would be the old way
of doing it.
Right? That I'm saying thisbecause I think someone else can
receive it a certain way. Findsomething that you think it
seems like it could be the thingor has some excitement for you,
(17:08):
and try those things on withother people. But you stating it
right more clearly as apractice. And then you're gonna
get real feedback as well fromthe market on how they respond
to that.
It's also market research foryour concept. And so I think
fitting it like you need tothere needs to be enough
commitment to it to get the realfeedback and then adjust as
(17:31):
you're learning.
Saara Lampwalla (17:32):
Yeah. And owning that process. And I don't
know if this is yeah. And I Idon't know if there's I feel
like this does add color to thepicture because I have posted to
LinkedIn when I firsttransitioned. And then even to
Instagram, I was like postingstories because it was making me
uncomfortable.
But I was like, okay, let meface this discomfort. But then
eventually, I'm just like, yeah,I just stopped because like,
(17:53):
this is just too much or it's,like, unnecessary or I've
already announced that I have asub sack, like, 10 times. I
don't need to do it anymore kindof thing. So I just I feel like
that's we all know thatconsistency in messaging can be
actually really good becausethings are gonna resonate at
different times with differentpeople or whatever other
reasons. But, yeah, there'salways that kind of voice that
(18:14):
comes in.
It's just like, it doesn'tmatter. That it doesn't matter
voice again.
David Sherry (18:18):
Right. And I think what can counter that is
actually having something to saythat you're excited about, that
you actually think isinteresting. Right?
Saara Lampwalla (18:28):
That's hard to talk about though.
David Sherry (18:30):
But it won't have the energy. It won't have the
real there won't be thesustainability of it. Right? So
it needs to meet the market insome way, and I think part of
the doesn't matter as well. Itdoesn't matter to me.
Right? It might just be, oh,wait. This doesn't does this
actually matter to me? Maybethere's some question there. And
so I think getting into a newconcept, you won't know how much
(18:51):
you're really gonna enjoy it orhow much it's gonna change.
But starting with something thathas some excitement, has some
passion, is like, if this is thething, if this could work, I'm
gonna present this because I'dbe thrilled if this would work.
So let me kinda commit to thatand speak to that. And then just
see how it's received. And thenyou'll get real market feedback,
(19:12):
and that is a part of it. Nobodywants to hire you for that or
there's no need, I mean, that issomething we all have to contend
with just generally.
And you'll learn, well, what ifI tweak it a little bit this
way? I maybe if I do it's thesame kind of thing, but I'm
gonna present it slightlydifferent based on market
feedback. I wanna get to whatyou think could be some actions
or practices that can help kindof maybe progress this forward.
(19:33):
Again, to state it, this nextwhat is this next rung that
you're grabbing for? The nextvine?
I'm encouraging you to come upwith three different versions of
what you think the vine couldbe. You don't know, but here's
three good ideas, all of whichI'd be excited about. And then
see what happens when youpropose that more concretely in
conversation and get thereaction externally.
Saara Lampwalla (19:56):
Well, I feel like I have defined those. It's
pretty much the chief of staffservices, human design,
advising, which can be on aspectrum of, like, how casual to
more kind of professional, andthen coaching.
David Sherry (20:10):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (20:11):
And chief of staff, I think I'm starting to
because I've been doing, like,cold sales on it over the past
week and a half and just kind ofrefining. And I'm just getting
an intuitive sense with it thatone of the ways I can iterate on
it is specifically putting thecall out to conscious founders
or people who
David Sherry (20:27):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (20:27):
Yeah. That's like it it immediately can be
polarizing, but that I feel likethat's a good thing in finding
the people that it'll resonatewith.
David Sherry (20:35):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (20:36):
Because that's part of why I haven't been lit
up by the chief of staff stuffis, like, fitting into a
corporate structure where I Ifeel like is dated and that I
just don't resonate with. That'slike I when I feel when I think
into the chief of staffservices, I think a lot in or
feel into, like, how I felt inmy corporate job.
David Sherry (20:54):
Mhmm. Which you're creating. It doesn't need to be
that way. And so what what youcan work on a little bit is what
do I want that to feel like?What do I want that to look
like?
What's the feeling there? Andhow do I embody that as I'm
putting it out there as well?
Saara Lampwalla (21:07):
And I think part of that is the conscious
thing. It's yeah, people who arealready business owners who are
doing self work themselves andthen implementing that in their
businesses or it's behind theirmission.
David Sherry (21:20):
And this is a perfect example of conscious, I
think that frames it for you ina way that feels good. As you
explore telling other people,does that word resonate with
them? It might, it might not.And that's can still be okay. So
what is it?
I I like how you phrase it. Whatresonates for me is, oh, like,
this is a founder who reallycares about their own self
growth and their lifestylegrowth. And so the chief of
(21:41):
staff position maybe spans bothof those. That's interesting.
That's different.
That's something only you canprovide.
Saara Lampwalla (21:49):
That's, yeah, something I've been playing
around with of, like, thepersonal advising and then the
chief of staff. Because to me,they're two sides of the same
coin in a lot of ways. So
David Sherry (21:58):
get feedback from people on this is I'm really
excited about this. I think itcould be like this. Does that
resonate for you?
Saara Lampwalla (22:05):
Yeah. And I already have expanders in that
area. That's kind of how Ilanded on the conscious element
is just kind of, yeah, observingsome people in the Austin orbit
who are there using thatlanguage and it seems like an
identifier for them. But I don'tknow if I don't necessarily know
if it'll like, work for me. Imight have a different word,
but, yeah, I feel like
David Sherry (22:23):
Yeah. Or other people resonate with a different
word that means the same thing,and you can, yeah, you can see
what they need and want as wellbecause there is a in a service
business, there's a serviceelement in terms of what are
people wanting and needing, howdo they see this for themselves.
And so, if we just went downthis narrow path, if you've got
three different areas thatyou're testing, each of each of
(22:45):
those could be the next kind ofrung for you. I think the more
you externally kind of validatesome of that and be in those
discussions where you putyourself out there and say, this
is what I'm excited about intesting, how does it resonate
for you? The more feedbackyou'll get to adjust it to find
what the fit actually is.
And I would yeah. Maybe evenjust focusing on that. What are
(23:06):
what are the resources andopportunities available to you
right now that could progressthose conversations with the
chief of staff? That would bewhat I'd be curious about kinda
leaving on. What's what'scurrently right in front of you
that doesn't actually take a lotof effort that would further
these aims?
I'm I'm curious what comes up.
Saara Lampwalla (23:24):
If I think the obvious one is LinkedIn posts.
David Sherry (23:26):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (23:26):
And then I'm already doing cold messaging and
that's felt good just to kindakeep the effort going even if
like, obviously not gettingtraction, I know I'm like
checking off boxes.
David Sherry (23:36):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (23:36):
And it's just a numbers game.
David Sherry (23:39):
It feels good doing it. You're you're shipping
it and it feels good that you'vedone it. That's a good sign.
Saara Lampwalla (23:44):
Yeah. And I'm also shipping it specifically to
people who follow like otherconscious founders. So there's
like some segmentation going onthat that just feels more
aligned. Yeah. That's
David Sherry (23:56):
That's really maybe what we're saying is that
you're owning the label or thethe position or the role.
Saara Lampwalla (24:04):
Mhmm. And making the ask too. Like, I
think I subconsciously wasavoiding sales and just kind of
more of, yeah, passively or justgoing through network. But,
yeah, it's been kind of fun toget back into the biz dev seat
and just do cold outreach andsee as a numbers game and not
take, like, silence or rejectionor anything personally so far.
(24:27):
So that's that.
David Sherry (24:29):
I want to so that owning it, this is what I'm
interested in. This is what Ithink I can provide. Doing that
in conversation, gettingfeedback, and adjusting the
offer, using different channelsthat feel good, whether it's
LinkedIn or maybe email or inperson. I think all these things
are amazing. I don't wanna openup too much of another doorway
here.
(24:49):
There is just one other thingthat I wanna leave you with that
is interesting to consider andthink about, which is this team
concept as well. Because it feltlike from what you had before,
even though it wasn't the rightfit in a lot of ways, There's
something about it being evenyour definition of what is
someone having their shittogether, like, look like.
(25:10):
Right? They're kind of doing itin a team environment or some
shared collaborativeenvironment. And so what I
imagine and why I bring that upis that there's something to
that for you as well is owning arole and but having that role be
received, you know, a team or acollaboration or whatever that
is, think is part of what you'rewanting.
So I'm just trying to bring upthat word again because there's
(25:31):
feels like there's something tothat to me.
Saara Lampwalla (25:34):
Well, I think it's even like a more resonant
word for me is partnership. So Ieven see that with clients of
just, yeah, having that thatteam, that sense of team, like
being within a client engagementto where I am providing the
service, but there is kind of aback and forth with the nature
of all of the three verticalsthat I'm talking about where,
(25:55):
yeah, we problem solve together.
David Sherry (25:57):
And maybe it's what you can explore is team for
you in collaboration one on one.Is it a team of five? Is it a
big, you know, how do I like toactually be visible I in my
Saara Lampwalla (26:09):
think one on one.
David Sherry (26:11):
If that's what you're feeling then
Saara Lampwalla (26:13):
Yeah. I so far, I definitely can run the
experiments more. But, yeah, agroup too many people just gets
complicated like we were talkingabout yesterday.
David Sherry (26:22):
Well, but I'd watch for I wanna be visible. I
don't wanna be visible. Therecan be some holding back. It
might be that actually you wanta larger reception from a team,
but it's it's also reallyuncomfortable. So just watch for
that as well as or be open tothe possibility of that.
Saara Lampwalla (26:40):
Mhmm. Yeah.
David Sherry (26:43):
So I want I want to kinda close, you know, wrap
here. Is there anything that youwanna reflect on? We can maybe
both take a a moment, just aminute to reflect. I I wanna
reshare this idea of kind ofunifying the experience from
internal and external and how Ithink the external role was
(27:03):
visible. There's sort of this,like, four by four.
Right? Like, the previous thing,the external role is visible. So
it's ticking that box for you,the desire for visibility, but
internally, you didn't feelaligned with what the work
actually was. There was nopassion, there's no personal
involvement in that visibility.Now you make the leap out of
that into this new space, andyou find your internal
(27:27):
alignment.
But you're trying to figure out,but how does that now go to the
external? Right? So they're kindof these mirror images and it's
about unifying the two that Ifelt was interesting. And I also
felt what was interesting was Ifeel like this lack of the next
thing you're reaching for, yourown clarity, and therefore, the
(27:49):
clear the lack of clarity ofother people. Like, because you
lack clarity of that, then otherpeople lack clarity, and then
you feel, well, other people aregonna see me this way.
And I think that is gonna comedown to you defining and
starting and getting feedback inthe way we're talking about. And
I think what's gonna be sothrilling for you is when you
start to see that next like ropeto reach for that is really
(28:11):
exciting for you, something youcan talk about with other
people. Like, when all thosethings come together, that's
gonna be a really exciting phasefor you. And I can see how that
can work, but I I and I think ittakes practicing and committing
before it's fully formed. Sothat's kind of what I what I
heard.
Saara Lampwalla (28:30):
I think something that's coming up for
me is not choosing dynamics thatfeel like they're they are out
of alignment as I pursuedifferent options. Like, for
example, in, a client, makingsure clients are aligned and
whatnot. I think that'ssomething that I'm I like, this
is reminding me of how fearfulI've been of, like, getting into
(28:51):
another situation where
David Sherry (28:52):
Right. The performing. I have to perform in
a way that I don't actuallyisn't real for me. What I'm
trying to just one more quickthing on that is that that's
that's within your domain now.And even then, I'm actually even
a little curious.
I understand the culture andwhat's expected, but and how
much is is actually Right.Exactly.
Saara Lampwalla (29:13):
Yeah. Yeah. But that's the thing is that's like
my not my blind spot, but myAchilles healer, my kryptonite
is like fall and this isactually in my human design, but
is kind of being seen in a roleand killing it in the role
generally even if I don't likeit and then creating expectation
other people have a certainexpectation of me and then it's
(29:33):
like, okay. Well, I'm the onewho built up this, like
David Sherry (29:36):
Right. You built it, and now other people see me
that way, and you're you don'twant them to see you,
Saara Lampwalla (29:39):
then you can so
David Sherry (29:41):
so what I'm what we're talking about this whole
conversation is build from theground up in the way you're
wanting. Don't build the goals.
Saara Lampwalla (29:47):
Exactly. And I think like in trying so many
opportunities or like talkingwith different prospective
clients, it's even though it'shard, it's like staying true to
like, what is my, like, myspidey sense say about whether
there's alignment here or notbecause ultimately the they're
not being alignment will not begood in the long term for
anybody.
David Sherry (30:08):
Also if the work itself is formed from your own,
like, excitement and desire, theright people will find you and
align with that.
Saara Lampwalla (30:17):
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just when it's tense,
you know? Like if I'm feelingstressed about like money or
like my my my ramp, that samesame kind of thing, then it
definitely can dilute my
David Sherry (30:30):
Mhmm. For sure.
Saara Lampwalla (30:31):
My decision making or like make the
decisions harder to make.
David Sherry (30:35):
Totally.
Saara Lampwalla (30:36):
Or to not, yeah, like fall into an older
pattern. So
David Sherry (30:40):
But that's the opportunity in this new phase,
right, is to to work in aslightly different way to be
aware of that. So that's part ofthis. Every time that there's
more stress around it, it's areminder of why you're in this
phase.
Saara Lampwalla (30:54):
Yeah. That's a good reframe. It's just like
it's a each tense point is achance to kind of relax more
into, like, where I'm at now andthat I do have the agency to
choose
David Sherry (31:07):
what's Yeah. For my And that's why you left.
Yeah.
Saara Lampwalla (31:11):
And I think too that's helpful, like, just
compartmentalizing, like, that'ssomething of the past that is
not in my present day. I don'thave to yeah. Like, I can choose
with the awareness and thelessons learned from the past
and, you know, with everyexperiment. And so on that note,
just taking actions that do, Iguess, work with visibility. And
(31:35):
I don't know, probably goingthrough one of my, like, setting
a container of like, okay, I'mgonna do this for a month or two
months or whatever.
And sticking to it just to kindof go past the growth edge that
or at least like the plateauthat I've usually gone to with
posting.
David Sherry (31:51):
And own it. Right? Own what it is externally so
that you can get feedback.
Saara Lampwalla (31:57):
Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. I think that's it.
David Sherry (32:01):
Great. Yeah. Well, thank you.
I'm thinking we'll start is, you know, what's the
(00:03):
what's the piece or area that ismost interesting for us to
explore today?
Saara Lampwalla (00:09):
It's yeah, being seen being perceived one.
And then it's shedding light onlike what's going on in my life
two. And then three, it's beingmore publicly visible and in the
messiness of a transition. Youknow, I'm so used to looking
like I have my shit together.
David Sherry (00:27):
And
Saara Lampwalla (00:29):
this is a time where it's not to say that I
always do have my shit togetherand I feel like I'm per like
pretty transparent about wherethe messiness is in my life and
interpersonal
David Sherry (00:37):
not having your shit together look like? What
does that mean?
Saara Lampwalla (00:41):
Like, being in the process of, you know, in in
a transition of not reallyknowing, like, basically what
feels like a soul call to leavemy corporate job and to pursue
something on my own, which isthat what I've felt is aligned
my entire life and then doing itbut not necessarily having a
clear vision as to what that endproduct is. And I also view it
(01:03):
as like a series of milestonesbut not even knowing what the
next branch is. You know, it'slike Tarzan swinging from one
branch to another branch, butnot knowing like what is the
other branch, where is it going.
David Sherry (01:13):
You made the leap. And now what's what's the next
branch that you're reaching for?And how do other people see
what's it like if people see youwhen you haven't reached out for
that next branch yet? Or they oryou perceive that they're seeing
you that, hey, this persondoesn't know what that next
branch is.
Saara Lampwalla (01:31):
Mhmm. And how to communicate about, like, how
to communicate about like that.Like, such an is the word
amorphous kind of time or likestate? It's like a state almost.
It's just like every day, everyweek kind of like waking up and
it's like, well, what is beingpresented to me internally and
externally?
And like, how do I respond tothose things in a way that feels
(01:53):
like it's getting closer to thenext branch?
David Sherry (01:56):
Mhmm. So maybe what we can look for today a
little bit is what is that nextbranch because I'm hearing the
lack of clarity for yourself andthen also publicly feels feels
difficult. I am curious first,though, what is what does having
your shit together look like?Like, what is that who has their
shit together? What are theydoing?
(02:16):
What does that mean? I
Saara Lampwalla (02:18):
mean, contributing to a visible
outcome that has shared positiveimpact and reach probably.
David Sherry (02:26):
So someone who has their shit together is
contributing to a public andshared outcome that has positive
reach?
Saara Lampwalla (02:34):
Yeah. Like in it, I'm thinking of a team
context.
David Sherry (02:40):
When was the last time you looked like you had
your shit together?
Saara Lampwalla (02:43):
I mean, theoretically in corporate.
Right? Like, you're on a path.
David Sherry (02:47):
What was for you?
Saara Lampwalla (02:49):
Internally, was a mess because I knew I was
living in contradiction for solong, like for years, and it was
very painful in my day to dayexperience. But on paper, I was
on a trajectory. I was buildingthings that were impacting
people. I was contributing to agreater whole Even if I didn't
care about, like, the end to toa degree, like, the actual
(03:09):
outcomes I cared about makingpeople's lives easier that I
worked with and otherwisecontributing to a system and
helping it scale. And, like,having a it wasn't a defined
role, but like kind of beingable to define my role within
that organization and, yeah,seeing how it could fit into the
broader picture or how it didfit into the broader picture.
So yeah, I just felt and I alsoworked in politics and that was
(03:31):
definitely ingrained in theculture. Mhmm.
David Sherry (03:34):
What was ingrained in the culture and politics? I I
don't know.
Saara Lampwalla (03:37):
Appearance. And we worked remotely too. So it
was like, okay. What making youraccomplishments visible. I
actually wasn't I don't thinkthat good at it.
But the nature of my work,again, like kind of preferring
to be in the back end at times.But again, my work was very
visible because I was second tothe CEO and I started a
department that was very activeand that they wanted to
(03:58):
emphasize. And I was always justcoming up with new projects that
were making its way to the restof the team where I had to teach
on them or announce them or giveupdates on them and things,
like, a weekly basis.
David Sherry (04:09):
Very visible. Very visible. And defined. Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (04:15):
I mean, I was defining it. But, yeah, it was
defined within the construct ofan organization and, like, what
that organization was trying todo. And then me saying, okay.
Well, this is an area that wecan move towards per se.
David Sherry (04:27):
What I'm hearing is you're sort of looking for
this unification of before, itwas very visible. It was in a
team context. It was moredefined. But internally, you
were feeling very misaligned.And then now, maybe you're
feeling aligned and sort of onpurpose, but now you're missing
the external.
So you're you've done theoutward appearance thing. It
(04:49):
just previously was notsomething that you inside felt
totally aligned about. Right? Soyou're trying to unify maybe
these things together a littlebit?
Saara Lampwalla (05:00):
Yeah. I guess so.
David Sherry (05:01):
And so the visibility you're in this
practice now of how do I makemyself more visible if I'm not
fully figured out in this newrole that I'm in yet. And also,
maybe it's a little scary tomake yourself visible when it's
something that's more meaningfulfor you externally.
Saara Lampwalla (05:19):
Yeah. Especially in like a
professional context where a lotof my work and probably what I'm
moving towards, I feel like ithas to be more mystical. Like, I
just feel like it's thisinextricable part of me and it's
like where my gifts are.
David Sherry (05:33):
I'm Part of
Saara Lampwalla (05:35):
Yeah. And then it's which is like inherently
elusive and then fitting thatinto a professional context. Not
necessarily sometimes throughofferings, but even like chief
of staff stuff like technicallymore corporate, but I'd wanna
work with more consciousfounders. I feel like that would
be an aligned way of doing it.But yeah, it's like me capturing
(05:56):
that within say a LinkedIn postfeels weird, especially because
800 of my connections are allfrom my former life and didn't
really know any, like, aboutthis at all.
Like, I would talk about itwithin a team context maybe like
twice in my eight years there.
David Sherry (06:11):
Uh-huh.
Saara Lampwalla (06:12):
You know? And it was kind of obvious, think,
by how I carried myself, but Iwas wearing my mask.
David Sherry (06:18):
Mhmm. Taking a vulnerable thing and putting it
out there in a context thatyou're not sure exactly how how
it's gonna be received. Mhmm.You know?
Saara Lampwalla (06:28):
I think one layer to add into that is also
this past year has been a lot oflearning how to even communicate
about these things because formost of my life, I just was kind
of taking in information andmaybe journaling about it. But I
wasn't actually I didn't reallyhave community to talk about it
with. So it's definitely beenlike, I felt felt like a
toddler, like, learning to standand to walk with how it's even
(06:49):
communicated about such abstractconcepts and in a way that
resonates with people,especially, I think, business
minded people because those arethe people that I tend to
gravitate towards. And I think,like, fit into a medley of my
client or, like, the client basefor the medley of offerings.
David Sherry (07:04):
Yeah. What I'm hearing is, and this is moving
forward and it relates to whatyou've brought up, the practice
that you're in is puttingyourself out there in this
external way, maybe on LinkedInor other places, and seeing how
that's received. How has thatbeen received so far? Or do you
(07:25):
feel like you're stoppingyourself? Because you also
mentioned you wake up, you havethese ideas, you're coming up
with the ideas in your head, thesub sec post or the name for
something, but other peoplearen't seeing it.
So when when does it stop? Wherewhere does that process start
and then get kind of stoppedfrom happening of putting
yourself out there?
Saara Lampwalla (07:44):
I mean, have been edging into it. I'm I've
been publishing. I took a breakfrom Substack but I would say it
stops when I feel more like anold belief kind of come up I
don't basically wanna deal withit. I'm let me see. Like it
doesn't matter anyway.
Like I I don't need
David Sherry (08:04):
to What be doesn't matter anyway?
Saara Lampwalla (08:07):
Like, doing something that's challenging. So
for example, emotionallychallenging. So for example,
posting to LinkedIn. Feel likethree people in the past week
have, like, been, post toLinkedIn.
David Sherry (08:17):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (08:17):
Which is a lot for my generator to respond to.
Know, like, oh, this does feellike a whenever I feel something
uncomfortable, I generally dopush through it and, like, do
the uncomfortable thing. But Ithink because there's been so
many uncomfortable things,sometimes I am selective.
David Sherry (08:33):
You're right. You're protecting yourself from
Yeah. Too much all at once.
Saara Lampwalla (08:37):
Yeah. Or even like another even more tangible
example. It's like, okay,embodying the identity of a
business owner. So one exampleis being visible in a public or
like a professional public, youknow, sphere like in LinkedIn
and publishing accomplishments,doing outreach, all that stuff.
Another example is, like,opening my freaking business
bank account.
(08:57):
Like, I still haven't done that.And that's an example of, oh, it
doesn't matter anyway. I shouldjust get the revenue first even
though already did the LLC andEIN, whatever. Like, it's just
taken me a long time to feellike it's worth prioritizing
these super simple tasks.
David Sherry (09:10):
So you start doing something that would be a step
along the path of what you wantpost to LinkedIn, open the
account, and then this I don'tdoesn't matter anyway, shows up
and slows you down and preventsyou from doing it. And and what
is that what is that doing foryou? It's protecting it's
protecting you making yourselfvisible or
Saara Lampwalla (09:33):
I view it as risk management.
David Sherry (09:35):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (09:36):
On the bank side, on the visibility side,
maybe I'll just go back to thatfocus. I think it's protecting
me from like the nervous system.I think my nervous system is
where you're saying when does itstop? It's like a nervous system
dysregulation of varyingdegrees, but depending on what
the thing is. But with thevisibility thing, it's like, you
know, posting and then gettingengagement on it or comments or
(09:59):
whatever and then just feelingthe eyeballs Mhmm.
On me. And then I just feel alittle bit like yeah. It just
feels like a little scattered
David Sherry (10:07):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (10:08):
In my my system.
David Sherry (10:09):
Mhmm. So even after you post and you you get
views, do you want the views oryou don't want the views? Would
you want the comments?
Saara Lampwalla (10:18):
Yes. And I feel like that's something that's
also contradictory is that Iactually do like visibility.
David Sherry (10:22):
What do you like about that? What do you what
comments do you like seeing?What engagement is something
that you want? I understandthese things maybe you don't
want. What would you want?
Saara Lampwalla (10:34):
The feeling or if it's a feeling of
receptivity, like somethinglanding. So for example, when I
announced the chief of staffwork that I would be doing, I
remember somebody I don't reallytalk to messaged and said, like,
this is such a need in themarket. So it's just kind of
like that resident feeling likemutual resonance. So somebody
who in my mind who, like, knowshis shit being like, oh, this is
(10:55):
actually needed in themarketplace felt really like
part stand out to me among theother comments I
David Sherry (11:00):
got. Mhmm. Right. And so you're part of that
equation is what's needed tocreate that resonance is for you
to put something out there forthat to be possible when it
happens, it feels good. Maybewhen you feel that someone else
isn't necessarily seeing it inthe way that you're wanting or
resonating, that doesn't feelgood.
And I think there is a a factwith online life that that we
(11:23):
can't control necessarily howwho, how is this gonna be
received. And like, maybe thatsurprise that you felt was like,
actually that I'm surprised thatresonated in that way for that
person. And that feels good.Right? What I what I think is
gonna be most helpful, we'retalking about this sort of
internal challenge from beforein the job, but you were very
(11:45):
visible.
So you know what that practiceis like. It just wasn't grounded
in this internal alignment. Nowyou're outside of that, you made
this leap, and now the internalis starting to feel like it's
there, but you're worried about,well, people aren't seeing it
visibly. Right? So theunification of these two is sort
of what you're what you'relooking for.
Let me pause for a second. Whatis there anything coming up from
(12:06):
what I'm sharing or anything youwanna say about that?
Saara Lampwalla (12:10):
Yeah. Something did come up of this sense of
performing and how I reallydon't like it. So even at my
corporate job, even though I wasdoing something very visible
David Sherry (12:21):
Performing meaning?
Saara Lampwalla (12:23):
Meaning like having to contort.
David Sherry (12:25):
Because why? Because
Saara Lampwalla (12:27):
I felt like it was what was yeah. It was like
what was expected of me. Buteven more than that, it's like
kind of like what the role I wasfitting. Like, was presenting as
a square. I was being a squarewithin that organization.
I had to present as a square.Does that make sense?
David Sherry (12:42):
Do you do you had to or you don't you've you've
felt that you had to?
Saara Lampwalla (12:48):
I felt like I had to but it was the nature of
the work like talking aboutstuff I think is so boring.
Like, you know what I mean?There's only so yeah. Like to
me, it would like it was likesucking the life force out of me
to like talk about these reallystructured archaic to me or not
archaic, but just really likething things that I just could
not care less about.
David Sherry (13:06):
So there wasn't actually a care there, you know,
and that's good to recognize.
Saara Lampwalla (13:12):
Yeah. Aside from, like, improving something
that was so clunky and then theimpact that had on people, yeah,
I didn't actually care about thework. And it was a lot of work,
a lot of, like, elbow grease andthat I had to put into it. That
was just fundamentally like lifezapping.
David Sherry (13:27):
Right. So you don't wanna perf you don't wanna
perform anymore. This is part ofthis what you're wanting in the
future is that that's a state Idon't wanna be in again in that
same way.
Saara Lampwalla (13:37):
Yeah. And I think to to tie it to the
present is that in this timethat feels so amorphous that
defining it through even asingle LinkedIn post. I know
that's so dramatic. But I thinkthat's like part of the
emotional route is like
David Sherry (13:49):
Yeah. Trying to
Saara Lampwalla (13:49):
define it within a single I
David Sherry (13:51):
got you.
Saara Lampwalla (13:51):
Trying to present as a square Right. Again
just feels stifling.
David Sherry (13:55):
So here's here's the piece then. Right? This is I
think the key area. We talkedabout knowing what that next
branch is. If I could see whatthe next branch is, if I could
communicate what the next branchis, then I would know for myself
what I'm working on, and itsolves a lot of things, right?
If I know the What next I'mhearing though is that if you
don't try on ideas there whileyou're finding it, which is very
(14:19):
normal for this process thatyou're you don't know and you
actually have to try things on.And I think what I'm hearing a
little bit too is that when youdo that, it feels again like
you're performing before, likelike it was before, and then now
that's stopping you from tryingthings. And so the way forward
is defining what this nextbranch is. And how to do that is
(14:42):
practicing and testing andhaving it not be the right
thing. So it doesn't need to beso fixed as this is the next
branch permanently.
I'm always gonna this is alwaysgonna be it. We do have to try
it out. And I think that whenthat feels like performing to
you, it maybe is part of whatyou shy away from. Does that
kinda make sense what I'msaying?
Saara Lampwalla (15:03):
Yeah. I feel like I am trying so many things.
The latest is just like aLinkedIn post.
David Sherry (15:08):
But how many of those things are visible and
public? That's what I'm saying.That it's in the it's in that
arena that stating this is mynext rung, and letting that not
have to be the thing that ispermanent, that you can do that
again the next week, and it canbe a new thing, and that's okay.
And that's actually prettynormal for the process for
entrepreneurs. Would evenencourage you to ask and talk
(15:30):
with entrepreneurs about theiterations of what they started
with and what they are doingtoday because I think that's a
really common experience is thatI'm telling everybody it's this
thing, and then through learningin real life, in real
conversation, which I think isanother opportunity for you is
to practice not just digitally,but also in any conversation at
lunch.
(15:50):
Here's my next thing, just stateit and just explore it with
them. And that gives you alsofeedback for the concept itself,
market feedback in a way. Butthen change it as you realize
it's something different. Ithink that practice is the thing
that's gonna clarify that foryou. I'm curious what you what
you think about that.
Saara Lampwalla (16:09):
Yeah. And you saying that just kind of made me
tie together that the feeling Ihave online is similar to what
I've had in person. Up untillike the past month, I was just
saying like, oh, I'm doingwhatever like, trying to figure
out. So what I'm gonna say andlately I've just been saying,
oh, I'm transitioning out ofsabbatical and I do this, this
and this. And that's felt a lotbetter whenever I was like kind
(16:32):
of grabbing for what how todescribe what I'm doing in
person because I do like meet alot of new people and go to a
lot of events and stuff.
I was just feeling like thatsame kind of almost like a shame
feeling of like, I don't knowwhat I'm doing and it's so
obvious, you know.
David Sherry (16:46):
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. But saying it it sounds
counterintuitive, but I thinksaying and trying on something
that is does come from what'sinside. I mean, you don't wanna
just pick up some random thingthat that would be the old way
of doing it.
Right? That I'm saying thisbecause I think someone else can
receive it a certain way. Findsomething that you think it
seems like it could be the thingor has some excitement for you,
(17:08):
and try those things on withother people. But you stating it
right more clearly as apractice. And then you're gonna
get real feedback as well fromthe market on how they respond
to that.
It's also market research foryour concept. And so I think
fitting it like you need tothere needs to be enough
commitment to it to get the realfeedback and then adjust as
(17:31):
you're learning.
Saara Lampwalla (17:32):
Yeah. And owning that process. And I don't
know if this is yeah. And I Idon't know if there's I feel
like this does add color to thepicture because I have posted to
LinkedIn when I firsttransitioned. And then even to
Instagram, I was like postingstories because it was making me
uncomfortable.
But I was like, okay, let meface this discomfort. But then
eventually, I'm just like, yeah,I just stopped because like,
(17:53):
this is just too much or it's,like, unnecessary or I've
already announced that I have asub sack, like, 10 times. I
don't need to do it anymore kindof thing. So I just I feel like
that's we all know thatconsistency in messaging can be
actually really good becausethings are gonna resonate at
different times with differentpeople or whatever other
reasons. But, yeah, there'salways that kind of voice that
(18:14):
comes in.
It's just like, it doesn'tmatter. That it doesn't matter
voice again.
David Sherry (18:18):
Right. And I think what can counter that is
actually having something to saythat you're excited about, that
you actually think isinteresting. Right?
Saara Lampwalla (18:28):
That's hard to talk about though.
David Sherry (18:30):
But it won't have the energy. It won't have the
real there won't be thesustainability of it. Right? So
it needs to meet the market insome way, and I think part of
the doesn't matter as well. Itdoesn't matter to me.
Right? It might just be, oh,wait. This doesn't does this
actually matter to me? Maybethere's some question there. And
so I think getting into a newconcept, you won't know how much
(18:51):
you're really gonna enjoy it orhow much it's gonna change.
But starting with something thathas some excitement, has some
passion, is like, if this is thething, if this could work, I'm
gonna present this because I'dbe thrilled if this would work.
So let me kinda commit to thatand speak to that. And then just
see how it's received. And thenyou'll get real market feedback,
(19:12):
and that is a part of it. Nobodywants to hire you for that or
there's no need, I mean, that issomething we all have to contend
with just generally.
And you'll learn, well, what ifI tweak it a little bit this
way? I maybe if I do it's thesame kind of thing, but I'm
gonna present it slightlydifferent based on market
feedback. I wanna get to whatyou think could be some actions
or practices that can help kindof maybe progress this forward.
(19:33):
Again, to state it, this nextwhat is this next rung that
you're grabbing for? The nextvine?
I'm encouraging you to come upwith three different versions of
what you think the vine couldbe. You don't know, but here's
three good ideas, all of whichI'd be excited about. And then
see what happens when youpropose that more concretely in
conversation and get thereaction externally.
Saara Lampwalla (19:56):
Well, I feel like I have defined those. It's
pretty much the chief of staffservices, human design,
advising, which can be on aspectrum of, like, how casual to
more kind of professional, andthen coaching.
David Sherry (20:10):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (20:11):
And chief of staff, I think I'm starting to
because I've been doing, like,cold sales on it over the past
week and a half and just kind ofrefining. And I'm just getting
an intuitive sense with it thatone of the ways I can iterate on
it is specifically putting thecall out to conscious founders
or people who
David Sherry (20:27):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (20:27):
Yeah. That's like it it immediately can be
polarizing, but that I feel likethat's a good thing in finding
the people that it'll resonatewith.
David Sherry (20:35):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (20:36):
Because that's part of why I haven't been lit
up by the chief of staff stuffis, like, fitting into a
corporate structure where I Ifeel like is dated and that I
just don't resonate with. That'slike I when I feel when I think
into the chief of staffservices, I think a lot in or
feel into, like, how I felt inmy corporate job.
David Sherry (20:54):
Mhmm. Which you're creating. It doesn't need to be
that way. And so what what youcan work on a little bit is what
do I want that to feel like?What do I want that to look
like?
What's the feeling there? Andhow do I embody that as I'm
putting it out there as well?
Saara Lampwalla (21:07):
And I think part of that is the conscious
thing. It's yeah, people who arealready business owners who are
doing self work themselves andthen implementing that in their
businesses or it's behind theirmission.
David Sherry (21:20):
And this is a perfect example of conscious, I
think that frames it for you ina way that feels good. As you
explore telling other people,does that word resonate with
them? It might, it might not.And that's can still be okay. So
what is it?
I I like how you phrase it. Whatresonates for me is, oh, like,
this is a founder who reallycares about their own self
growth and their lifestylegrowth. And so the chief of
(21:41):
staff position maybe spans bothof those. That's interesting.
That's different.
That's something only you canprovide.
Saara Lampwalla (21:49):
That's, yeah, something I've been playing
around with of, like, thepersonal advising and then the
chief of staff. Because to me,they're two sides of the same
coin in a lot of ways. So
David Sherry (21:58):
get feedback from people on this is I'm really
excited about this. I think itcould be like this. Does that
resonate for you?
Saara Lampwalla (22:05):
Yeah. And I already have expanders in that
area. That's kind of how Ilanded on the conscious element
is just kind of, yeah, observingsome people in the Austin orbit
who are there using thatlanguage and it seems like an
identifier for them. But I don'tknow if I don't necessarily know
if it'll like, work for me. Imight have a different word,
but, yeah, I feel like
David Sherry (22:23):
Yeah. Or other people resonate with a different
word that means the same thing,and you can, yeah, you can see
what they need and want as wellbecause there is a in a service
business, there's a serviceelement in terms of what are
people wanting and needing, howdo they see this for themselves.
And so, if we just went downthis narrow path, if you've got
three different areas thatyou're testing, each of each of
(22:45):
those could be the next kind ofrung for you. I think the more
you externally kind of validatesome of that and be in those
discussions where you putyourself out there and say, this
is what I'm excited about intesting, how does it resonate
for you? The more feedbackyou'll get to adjust it to find
what the fit actually is.
And I would yeah. Maybe evenjust focusing on that. What are
(23:06):
what are the resources andopportunities available to you
right now that could progressthose conversations with the
chief of staff? That would bewhat I'd be curious about kinda
leaving on. What's what'scurrently right in front of you
that doesn't actually take a lotof effort that would further
these aims?
I'm I'm curious what comes up.
Saara Lampwalla (23:24):
If I think the obvious one is LinkedIn posts.
David Sherry (23:26):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (23:26):
And then I'm already doing cold messaging and
that's felt good just to kindakeep the effort going even if
like, obviously not gettingtraction, I know I'm like
checking off boxes.
David Sherry (23:36):
Mhmm.
Saara Lampwalla (23:36):
And it's just a numbers game.
David Sherry (23:39):
It feels good doing it. You're you're shipping
it and it feels good that you'vedone it. That's a good sign.
Saara Lampwalla (23:44):
Yeah. And I'm also shipping it specifically to
people who follow like otherconscious founders. So there's
like some segmentation going onthat that just feels more
aligned. Yeah. That's
David Sherry (23:56):
That's really maybe what we're saying is that
you're owning the label or thethe position or the role.
Saara Lampwalla (24:04):
Mhmm. And making the ask too. Like, I
think I subconsciously wasavoiding sales and just kind of
more of, yeah, passively or justgoing through network. But,
yeah, it's been kind of fun toget back into the biz dev seat
and just do cold outreach andsee as a numbers game and not
take, like, silence or rejectionor anything personally so far.
(24:27):
So that's that.
David Sherry (24:29):
I want to so that owning it, this is what I'm
interested in. This is what Ithink I can provide. Doing that
in conversation, gettingfeedback, and adjusting the
offer, using different channelsthat feel good, whether it's
LinkedIn or maybe email or inperson. I think all these things
are amazing. I don't wanna openup too much of another doorway
here.
(24:49):
There is just one other thingthat I wanna leave you with that
is interesting to consider andthink about, which is this team
concept as well. Because it feltlike from what you had before,
even though it wasn't the rightfit in a lot of ways, There's
something about it being evenyour definition of what is
someone having their shittogether, like, look like.
(25:10):
Right? They're kind of doing itin a team environment or some
shared collaborativeenvironment. And so what I
imagine and why I bring that upis that there's something to
that for you as well is owning arole and but having that role be
received, you know, a team or acollaboration or whatever that
is, think is part of what you'rewanting.
So I'm just trying to bring upthat word again because there's
(25:31):
feels like there's something tothat to me.
Saara Lampwalla (25:34):
Well, I think it's even like a more resonant
word for me is partnership. So Ieven see that with clients of
just, yeah, having that thatteam, that sense of team, like
being within a client engagementto where I am providing the
service, but there is kind of aback and forth with the nature
of all of the three verticalsthat I'm talking about where,
(25:55):
yeah, we problem solve together.
David Sherry (25:57):
And maybe it's what you can explore is team for
you in collaboration one on one.Is it a team of five? Is it a
big, you know, how do I like toactually be visible I in my
Saara Lampwalla (26:09):
think one on one.
David Sherry (26:11):
If that's what you're feeling then
Saara Lampwalla (26:13):
Yeah. I so far, I definitely can run the
experiments more. But, yeah, agroup too many people just gets
complicated like we were talkingabout yesterday.
David Sherry (26:22):
Well, but I'd watch for I wanna be visible. I
don't wanna be visible. Therecan be some holding back. It
might be that actually you wanta larger reception from a team,
but it's it's also reallyuncomfortable. So just watch for
that as well as or be open tothe possibility of that.
Saara Lampwalla (26:40):
Mhmm. Yeah.
David Sherry (26:43):
So I want I want to kinda close, you know, wrap
here. Is there anything that youwanna reflect on? We can maybe
both take a a moment, just aminute to reflect. I I wanna
reshare this idea of kind ofunifying the experience from
internal and external and how Ithink the external role was
(27:03):
visible. There's sort of this,like, four by four.
Right? Like, the previous thing,the external role is visible. So
it's ticking that box for you,the desire for visibility, but
internally, you didn't feelaligned with what the work
actually was. There was nopassion, there's no personal
involvement in that visibility.Now you make the leap out of
that into this new space, andyou find your internal
(27:27):
alignment.
But you're trying to figure out,but how does that now go to the
external? Right? So they're kindof these mirror images and it's
about unifying the two that Ifelt was interesting. And I also
felt what was interesting was Ifeel like this lack of the next
thing you're reaching for, yourown clarity, and therefore, the
(27:49):
clear the lack of clarity ofother people. Like, because you
lack clarity of that, then otherpeople lack clarity, and then
you feel, well, other people aregonna see me this way.
And I think that is gonna comedown to you defining and
starting and getting feedback inthe way we're talking about. And
I think what's gonna be sothrilling for you is when you
start to see that next like ropeto reach for that is really
(28:11):
exciting for you, something youcan talk about with other
people. Like, when all thosethings come together, that's
gonna be a really exciting phasefor you. And I can see how that
can work, but I I and I think ittakes practicing and committing
before it's fully formed. Sothat's kind of what I what I
heard.
Saara Lampwalla (28:30):
I think something that's coming up for
me is not choosing dynamics thatfeel like they're they are out
of alignment as I pursuedifferent options. Like, for
example, in, a client, makingsure clients are aligned and
whatnot. I think that'ssomething that I'm I like, this
is reminding me of how fearfulI've been of, like, getting into
(28:51):
another situation where
David Sherry (28:52):
Right. The performing. I have to perform in
a way that I don't actuallyisn't real for me. What I'm
trying to just one more quickthing on that is that that's
that's within your domain now.And even then, I'm actually even
a little curious.
I understand the culture andwhat's expected, but and how
much is is actually Right.Exactly.
Saara Lampwalla (29:13):
Yeah. Yeah. But that's the thing is that's like
my not my blind spot, but myAchilles healer, my kryptonite
is like fall and this isactually in my human design, but
is kind of being seen in a roleand killing it in the role
generally even if I don't likeit and then creating expectation
other people have a certainexpectation of me and then it's
(29:33):
like, okay. Well, I'm the onewho built up this, like
David Sherry (29:36):
Right. You built it, and now other people see me
that way, and you're you don'twant them to see you,
Saara Lampwalla (29:39):
then you can so
David Sherry (29:41):
so what I'm what we're talking about this whole
conversation is build from theground up in the way you're
wanting. Don't build the goals.
Saara Lampwalla (29:47):
Exactly. And I think like in trying so many
opportunities or like talkingwith different prospective
clients, it's even though it'shard, it's like staying true to
like, what is my, like, myspidey sense say about whether
there's alignment here or notbecause ultimately the they're
not being alignment will not begood in the long term for
anybody.
David Sherry (30:08):
Also if the work itself is formed from your own,
like, excitement and desire, theright people will find you and
align with that.
Saara Lampwalla (30:17):
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just when it's tense,
you know? Like if I'm feelingstressed about like money or
like my my my ramp, that samesame kind of thing, then it
definitely can dilute my
David Sherry (30:30):
Mhmm. For sure.
Saara Lampwalla (30:31):
My decision making or like make the
decisions harder to make.
David Sherry (30:35):
Totally.
Saara Lampwalla (30:36):
Or to not, yeah, like fall into an older
pattern. So
David Sherry (30:40):
But that's the opportunity in this new phase,
right, is to to work in aslightly different way to be
aware of that. So that's part ofthis. Every time that there's
more stress around it, it's areminder of why you're in this
phase.
Saara Lampwalla (30:54):
Yeah. That's a good reframe. It's just like
it's a each tense point is achance to kind of relax more
into, like, where I'm at now andthat I do have the agency to
choose
David Sherry (31:07):
what's Yeah. For my And that's why you left.
Yeah.
Saara Lampwalla (31:11):
And I think too that's helpful, like, just
compartmentalizing, like, that'ssomething of the past that is
not in my present day. I don'thave to yeah. Like, I can choose
with the awareness and thelessons learned from the past
and, you know, with everyexperiment. And so on that note,
just taking actions that do, Iguess, work with visibility. And
(31:35):
I don't know, probably goingthrough one of my, like, setting
a container of like, okay, I'mgonna do this for a month or two
months or whatever.
And sticking to it just to kindof go past the growth edge that
or at least like the plateauthat I've usually gone to with
posting.
David Sherry (31:51):
And own it. Right? Own what it is externally so
that you can get feedback.
Saara Lampwalla (31:57):
Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. I think that's it.
David Sherry (32:01):
Great. Yeah. Well, thank you.
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