The Real Reason Porn’s Changing: Jacky St. James Exposes What Actually Turns Us On (and What Doesn’t)

 I sat down with director Jacky St James for a no-filter chat about what truly turns a scene from “fine” to fire: slow-burn tension, real chemistry, and partners who respect boundaries. We go there on money (tiny budgets vs massive marketing), overhyped tropes, nightmare locations, and the influencer era’s stunt culture. Jacky opens up about performance aids, why some “epic” scenes should be five minutes, and how moving from features to Bellesa reshaped her craft. We also get candid about identity, awards, burnout, and why Jacky studying therapy might be the plot twist this industry needs. Explicit conversation, adult themes.
 
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, did you know that you can actually find me
naked online? Yes, I'm a photographer, director, podcaster, and in
my secret life, I actually have a platform with all
of the spicy content that you didn't think I made.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I know it surprised me too.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
If you're curious about what happens when I'm in front
of the camera instead of behind it, head to my
OnlyFans OnlyFans dot com slash Holly Randall. It's raw, it's sexy,
and it's totally uncensored. That's OnlyFans dot com slash Holly Randall.
But don't say I didn't warn you.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
You were listening to a pleasure podcast. For more from
our sex podcast collective, visit Pleasure Podcasts dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Hello everybody, Welcome back to Holly Randall Unfiltered. I am
truly so excited about my guest today because I absolutely
love her. She's so much fun and she's somebody that
I consider a friend, even though I don't see her
as often as I would like. She is an award
winning director and writer who really, I mean, I feel
like needs no introduction. In her fourteen years in the industry,

(01:25):
she has reshaped it from the inside out by creating
films that put women's pleasure first. Welcome the one and
only Jackie Saint James.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
I'm so happy to be back. I know. I'm so
happy you're here too.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
It's been we were trying to figure out how long
has been since you've been on it.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
COVID was the last time. Yeah, twenty twenty, I guess. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
I don't even really remember what we talked about because
I think I was pregnant at the time.

Speaker 4 (01:51):
Well, I remember that you kindly gave me the money
that people donated, and I just if people don't know,
like obviously everyone knows you're wonderful, but like that meant
so much to me. And whenever I think of you,
I always think about that. I was hurting financially and
you you helped me, so thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
You're welcome. I remember that too. I am pretty great.
I like I remember that too. That's I remember about that.
I don't remember what we talked about either, actually, so, yeah,
that was a rough time.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah, COVID was like really hard for some people and
really great for others.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
I didn't mind it, actually, yeah, I didn't. It didn't
feel that different than the life I lived. I don't
get out a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:32):
I was just like, yeah, I was pregnant. It was great.
Oh that's perfect good timing.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
So I didn't have to like go on set and
direct and be on my feet all day.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
I just like hunt out and home and grew a
baby that is.

Speaker 4 (02:45):
Enough to get tested every week, every day, actually every
day you shot.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, yeah, show up clean the location, yeah, first with
like anti infectant, and wear.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Masks while people have sex in front of you. Yeah,
makes sense.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
A lot has changed since then, Yeah, yeah, it So
tell me about what you've been doing since then, and
like what your career is now.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
I mean, I work full time for Blessed now, I'm
under contract with them, and that's it. It's totally different
because I'm only doing vignettes. I don't do features anymore.
And it's been great. It's weird to work for a
company that's run by kids.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
I mean, I say kids.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
They're in their twenties and thirties, but like they are
kids to me. But they're so you know, on top
of technology and kind of what's going on. And I've
learned a lot from them. It's hard to say that
as like an old woman that like you're learning from
the kids, but they've taught me a lot about the
way things work. Yeah, you know, I'm from the old
school days where people still put the DVD in and yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
So tell us a little bit about Blessed, because not
everybody may know that studio because they're sort.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
Of new ish, new ish, Yeah, and they're not like
they don't heavily promote, so a lot of people don't
know about them.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
I mean, it's a female run organization.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
It's really geared towards female pleasure, and so there's a
lot of focus on tension and the you know, appearance
of the.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Girl and the guy.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
I actually, when I started working for them, I publicly
shamed them because they were trying to kind of infiltrate
the porn world. They were taking content that like I
had done, other women had done, and sort of like
putting them on a tube site which was.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
There's their blog site. I absolutely remember that. But to
their credit, when they got called out on it, the
owner came forward and said, yes, I'm so sorry, that
wasn't my intention.

Speaker 5 (04:46):
How can I make this better?

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yes? And I mean, you know, that's.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
That's why I sort of changed my tune and that
they were like, do you want.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
To come work with some Yeah, sure, why not.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
You're willing to admit your mistake and and I think
that they're always willing to kind of grow and evolve,
and I love that about them.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Right Yeah, So what made you leave New Sensations? Did
they just offer you this contract? Were you kind of
like I went over there?

Speaker 2 (05:12):
So I left New Sensations.

Speaker 5 (05:14):
It was such a.

Speaker 4 (05:17):
Like a huge change in my life when I left.
But I went to Mile High first for a little while,
and I got more money, but then I got less
money for the shoots, so like I was shooting back
a lot lower budget stuff, but I was making more money.
And then through Mile High, blessed Mile High, we're kind
of working together. So then I was the first director

(05:39):
pretty much the only one for Blessa and then eventually
I just left Mile High and have been contracted to
Blessa for about four years by working with them for
about seven.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
So what's your favorite thing about working for them?

Speaker 4 (05:53):
I think they're always trying to create new things and
new ideas within the storylines that they give. And they're
they're also I will I'll say, like I don't have
gigantic budgets, but they're willing to pay for the higher
end people that might be a little bit more like
somebody that's primarily an only fans star that's going to
charge a lot of money. They'll be willing to pay

(06:13):
for that budget for that person because they know with
that comes like marketing and that kind of thing. So
I get to work with a lot of the people
that I wasn't able to work with previously with new
sensations a mile high because they wouldn't pay that.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, I worked for companies. I won't necessarily name them.
It's not Browsers, by the way. I just want to
put that out there because I know a lot of
people knew that I worked for them and for Twisties.
It's not either of them. But they would want me
to book expensive girls. Yeah, and they wouldn't pay anymore,
and it would be like in the scene rate that

(06:47):
I get, which was already load to begin with. And
I was like, so, basically, you just want me to
make more money so you can get a scene that
will make you more money because you have a big.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Name girl in there, Like yeah, are you serious? Yeah,
isn't that funny?

Speaker 4 (07:03):
Or they'll say there were you know, or they'll say
something like you know the girl's rate, and they'll be like, well,
you know, just offer her, you know, seventy percent off
of what her rate is.

Speaker 5 (07:12):
And it's just like why why why would we leave
her house for that?

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah? Why would she take it?

Speaker 5 (07:16):
And like why do I want to negotiate that? Correct?
It doesn't benefit me in any way.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
She makes you look cheap.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
It makes me look cheap like that I'm not getting
I'm not getting residuals, Like I'm not getting like a share.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Of the profits. Like why would I do that? Right?

Speaker 5 (07:32):
You can fucking call her and negotiate the race.

Speaker 4 (07:34):
Yes, yeah, exactly. Yeah that is humiliating. I've had to
do that before too.

Speaker 5 (07:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
We's just like, look, say no, but this is like
this is all I have. This is what it is.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
Yeah, I'm sorry if that's embarrassing, but like this is
what I can pay you.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah. Yeah. Do most people say yes when you do that? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (07:50):
Yeah, of course, because I will say like hey, I'll
try and get you out as quickly as possible or whatever.
But I don't like doing it because I feel it
does feel cheap, it feels manipulative.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
If somebody has a rate, just pay it, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
They have a rate for a reason, or they have
a rate for the studio that they know will pay more,
and I don't like that.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. So you don't shoot
fature films anymore. No, you're just shooting.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
I was gonna ask you, are you sad about that?
And that face that you gave me made me feel
like you are maybe a little bit.

Speaker 4 (08:21):
Yes and no, Like there's been a couple times like
I've tried to do like features and they didn't work out,
like with Blessa or just you know, we would try
to do something bigger and then like things would fall
through or whatever. It is sad because it's always nice
to see the full story, you know, come to life,

(08:42):
whereas like when you do scenes, it's it's very I
don't want to say churn and burn, but it is
kind of because it's like, wait, what was that scene?

Speaker 2 (08:50):
I did?

Speaker 4 (08:51):
You know, because you've like I do six scenes a
month and they're scripted and I sort of will forget
about them, you know, months down the line.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
But like a feature stays with you and it's something
that you can be proud of.

Speaker 4 (09:00):
And I think the most the work I am most
proud of often were the features that I did back
in the Yeah, what's your favorite feature that you've shot?
You know, it's funny. I didn't get any awards for this,
but the friend Zone. I wasn't credited as a director,
but I was like an assistant director on it. But
I loved that script, and it was with Riley Reid
and Anthony Risano. I thought it was the most hilarious

(09:22):
thing I've written for Adult and I just loved it.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
It was just so much fun for me to what
studio was it for? It was for New Sensations.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Okay, Yeah, So when you were shooting features, did you
also write the scripts?

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Always? Yeah, I can't.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
I'm too much of a control freak, Like I don't
want to take somebody else's work, and I don't want
somebody taking my work and directing it.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, I can't.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
The problem is, too, is that when you get somebody
else's script, usually it's somebody who's never shot Adult before,
and the things that they put in there and the
shots that they think that you're going to be able
to get are like it's not possible, Like it's outside.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
In the snowing, and I'm just like, no, that's.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah, I had one that wanted me to shoot on
like a semi truck at a truck stop.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
I was like, what am i? Am I going to
go shoot illegally at a public truck stop? Am I
going to rent a truck stop?

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (10:19):
Do you have any idea how much that would be?

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Number one? The cost?

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Number two, like most locations don't want you to shoot
adult there, No, And like number three like where yeah
I get it outside?

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Like well probably if it's a truck stop. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
And that's always the fun one too, when they want
you to shoot in a location that's really far away
and you have to drive like three hours to get there,
and they don't want to pay anyone's gas. They don't
want to pay like overnight stay. And it's just like,
I mean now that I don't I haven't directed in
like two and a half years. I think about all
of the times that I shot, and I just sucked
it up, and I just like I just took it.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
I was just like, Okay, I will do this outrageous
thing that you're at you're hungry.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, yes, I will not drive far anymore.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
I will not because I hear like people shooting in
Santa Monica, and I'm like, forget it.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
I'm not going to sit there in two hours of
up far too far for you.

Speaker 4 (11:15):
I'm thinking like Palm Springs. Well, Palm Springs would definitely
be no. But no Santa Monica. That's like a two
hour drive for me. Yeah, where I live, but it
is far. The traffic's horrendous. Like, no, you know, I'm
going to use the same houses that you know are
that we all use there in the rotation.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
That's where I'm going because it's not worth it to me.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
Yeah, Like, my my life and my happiness is more
important than sitting for two hours in a car to
shoot porn.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
No, not going to do it.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
What do you think We talk about locations a lot,
and I feel like this is always something that surprises people.
What do you think is the one thing about locations
that would surprise someone who didn't know anything about the
adult industry.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
There are some that smell really bad. We know who
that is. Sorry, I'm just I answering the question estion.
Am I wrong? Did you go to a baby share
there recently?

Speaker 4 (12:04):
No?

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Not that one.

Speaker 5 (12:06):
That house is okay?

Speaker 2 (12:07):
So all the houses have like nicknames.

Speaker 5 (12:10):
Oh, I know which one you're talking about.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
Yeah, there's the crack house one that we all kind
of call I won't say the persons saying, but we
call it the crack house or fun house, and a
lot of parties and drugs have happened there.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
I would say, probably you'd be surprised that.

Speaker 4 (12:27):
Like I think for me, the amount of wealth and
these big palatial mansions, but they feel like dumps, you
know what I mean. So like if I think if
somebody went to these homes, like I know with girls
will they'll drive up to the house and be like,
oh my god, And I'm just like what, Like I
see it as a dump a lot of the places
and no offense to the homeowners.

Speaker 5 (12:48):
But it's like I.

Speaker 4 (12:49):
Think, if you're shooting porn in your house, there's a reason,
you know there is, Yeah, either you want the extra
cash flow or you're hurting or your kinky.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
I mean there's a couple of those homeowners that kind
of linger, and those are my least favorite.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, there's a woman that does it really Okay, all right,
I know, I'm like out of the locations game now, Yeah,
because that's always like the biggest struggle is finding places
to shoot, and then finding places that you like to
shoot at, and that don't have a creepy homeowner, that
don't have like difficult parking, aren't like really far away ye,

(13:25):
that aren't dirty. I mean I've gone into some dirty.

Speaker 5 (13:29):
Some of them are clean. You'll have to tell me
which one.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
I don't know about those.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
There's definitely there's one house in particular, and I won't
say the name, but that I would I bought a
cleaning kit for that location. I would come there with
dishwashing gloves and I would clean it when I get there.
And I cleaned the bathroom specifically because I didn't want
the talent to go use that bathroom, like go dute
in the bathroom.

Speaker 5 (13:54):
And it's like, yeah, you know what I mean, it's
a disgust.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
I mean, if you should have paid me a goddamn
cleaning pain for sure.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
You know what I just thought of this?

Speaker 4 (14:04):
You're gonna do you watch a lot of crime Do
I watch what a lot of crime shows?

Speaker 2 (14:09):
Okay, there is a house that we've.

Speaker 4 (14:11):
All shot at a million times that also is featured
on Discovery ID And like all these crime shows, like
these reenactments and I'm always laughing.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
So I'm like, oh, do you know how many people
have sex in that?

Speaker 4 (14:23):
But they have no idea. But there is one house
that appears in all of these and I just I
just sit there and laugh because the mainstream.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Actors have no clue. Yeah, clicked all the body count
at that POINTE like bad. You don't want to take
a black light to that? Oh no, no, no, no no.

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So I want to ask you, what do you believe?

Speaker 2 (15:46):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (15:47):
I feel like I already know the answer. What is
the most overused trope in porn movies?

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Come on the step Family? Oh? Really?

Speaker 5 (15:58):
Is that what you were gonna say?

Speaker 1 (15:59):
Now?

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Oh? What an original answer? Yeah? That, I mean, I
think it's fading, though, don't you.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
I mean, I don't know, because you're not really as
enmeshed in the business anymore.

Speaker 5 (16:07):
But like from what you've.

Speaker 4 (16:08):
Heard, I haven't shot it since I worked for Bless
because they don't do that. But I don't think it's
really in the limelight anymore. I guess i'd say, thank God.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (16:19):
Do you remember like when that trope came around?

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (16:23):
I do, because I remember I had just started directing
and I was like, yeah, like I was excited about
doing it because it seemed wrong and it was like
not overdone.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
At that point.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
I would always make them kind of campy and fun,
but then it started getting to the point where they
were really dark and disturbing, and it got like really
really not okay and not funny anymore. And then it
sort of was straddling that really weird line of I
don't know, pushing an agenda that was.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Should not be pushed.

Speaker 4 (16:50):
I guess I could say, yeah, but you know, I
think that you have companies like Browsers that keep that
funny stuff alive, and I think that's where it should live.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
If it's gonna live anymore.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Is in humor as opposed to like tapping into some
people's like real life trauma.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
Yeah, and like people crying, It's like, wow, are people?
And I'm sure people get off to it. I mean
people get off to everything. But should we be promoting this?

Speaker 2 (17:13):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, is there anything in particular that like, you absolutely
will not shoot?

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Will not? I mean besides the obvious, you know, like
illegal stuff.

Speaker 4 (17:24):
No, I really want to get into bisexual a bisexual.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Line right now.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
I think I've heard horror stories from directors about like
shooting gay just because the logistical aspect of it, And
so for that reason I would probably say no. I
don't want to book people's flights. I don't want to
deal with flight changes. I don't want to deal with drama.
I've also heard some crazy stories about like how there's
just a different vibe there where the guys will be

(17:52):
looking at their own horn and then they'll go and
have sex with them, like if there's just a disconnect,
and I'm like, it doesn't really feel like it would
be for me right, And also I hate dealing with
travel and that, Like, No.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
It's so funny that you said logistics because in my
head I was thinking, you know, penises can be temperamental
and sometimes they don't work, and then you have two
things that are temperamental and you know, like doubles the
chances of things going wrong.

Speaker 5 (18:17):
That was what popped into my head. But you were
like flights.

Speaker 4 (18:20):
I'm like, damn, that's funny is when I cause I
have been on a gay porn watching a phase lately
and what I will say that I find so hilarious.
And another reason why what you're saying is true, like
I would not want to shoot gay porn is it's
always cross dissolving and I'm like, oh, they're not hard
yet again, and I'm like, yeah, I don't want to

(18:41):
deal with that because I don't want my days to
be twelve hours to shoot a sex scene when I'm
just hiring reliable talent that I know I can count.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, you know what I mean. So I think that too.
I think what you're saying is, yeah, the penises can
be tempering.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
You said you're on a gay porn watching kick. Are
you watching it like for research or.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
No, just pleasure?

Speaker 4 (19:00):
And honestly, I could because I don't like watching people
I know, and so I don't work with a lot
of gay performers. I know if I worked with a couple,
but like I don't, it's not what I shoot. So
it's easier to find somebody that I don't know. Yeah,
I'm I'm in the same boat. Yeah, because I'm like
I can't watch that one because I.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
Know him really well and I know or like sometimes
you'll find a video and you're like, okay, great, I
don't know that girl, and you'll be like getting into
it and the guy's head's cut off and then all
of a sudden, like his head I remember this one specifically,
and then his head came in and it was like
Ryan mclan I was like, oh.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
Fuck done.

Speaker 5 (19:35):
I can't.

Speaker 4 (19:36):
No, it feels gross because it's like you're masturbating to
your friends. Yes, yeah, so with the gay performers, like
I really only know maybe a handful, So for me
it doesn't feel wrong because I'm like, well I don't
know them.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
That's to them. I can hang out with them later.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
There's also something like very you know, like obviously like
kind of animalistic and like testosterone and oh.

Speaker 4 (19:58):
Yeah about like yeah, and I do like the gay
porn where it's like the I mean, this is bad,
but it's like the masculine father and he's having sex
with his son's friend.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
I love those.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah, I mean the thing is is that also too,
Like for me as a woman, I get turned on
by hearing the guy. Oh sure, like the guy making sounds,
the guy talking, and in heterosexual porn, because it's a
mainly male audience and it's focused on the woman, you're
usually telling the guy to shut up.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, which like so unfortunate.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
Have you ever had a male performer that you've worked
with that you've had to tell him to like stop
making the scene about him or no, no, no.

Speaker 4 (20:41):
In fact, I just shot Cody still and he was laughing.
He's like, I love when I shoot for you because
I'm the one that's shirtless all the time and the
girls are completely closed because.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
I'm like, this is what I want to see.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
I want to see you, But no, I've never had
that happen.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
I think most of the guys I don't want to
say are trained, but they're so used to not being
the focus.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, those would be the experience guys though, like in
the beginning of their career.

Speaker 4 (21:06):
Yeah, there is one guy I'll tell you later, but
he makes really distracting faces.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yes, you probably know who this is. Well, I there
was a guy. I think his name was Marco. He
does not work in the industry anymore.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
And yeah, he was very over the top with his faces.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
He was always like and it was just like, yes, ma,
she's gonna make a thumbnail out of that picture. I
know it, but.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, I mean it was like yeah, and when I
would edit the pictures, I'd like pick ones were like
that were cropped in clothes, so or I tell him,
I'd tell him to hide his face behind the girl
like food.

Speaker 5 (21:44):
That's all I can look at.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Is stupid over the top expression.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yes, I know that you're having a good time, but like,
come on, man, it was like so insane.

Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yes, there is one guy right now that doesn't I
don't hire him that much. But yeah, because I will
be behind the monitor and just trying not to laugh.
And indeed that's wrong because you know, people are vulnerable,
they're having sex.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
But I'm just kind of like, why are you making that? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (22:09):
You know what makes a great male performer in your opinion.

Speaker 4 (22:13):
Well, I think first, just honoring the boundaries is huge,
but just knowing like there's always those guys that like
but a while later, like they think it's a date,
Guys that can still sort of straddle that line between
being respectful to the girl and affectionate with her but
not crossing the line. And uh, and then know how

(22:35):
to position the girl is so important. There's so many
guys still to this day that have been in forever
that don't know where to angle based on the light.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
And it's astounding to me.

Speaker 4 (22:45):
Yeah, I've been in this business for you know, ten
fifteen years and you still don't know how to position
correctly or open up.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
That's strange. Oh yeah, it happens a lot.

Speaker 5 (22:53):
Huh.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
But then there's people like Victor Ray's a new performer
who's come onto the scene and he's so enthusiastic and
so he's just great and he the energy and passion,
Like I hope he never loses that because you see
these young guys and you're like, please don't become jaded,
please please please, and please don't you know, graduate from
Viagar to something else.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Cavera jack Yeah, yeah, we've talked about it on this podcast,
so it's not something that people haven't heard about before.

Speaker 4 (23:17):
Yeah, And I mean a lot of new guys are
using that out of the gate, and I think that
is another thing, Like I think the guys that are
just using Viagara or trying to do it naturally are
usually better because there's there's a drive there. They have
to be engaged and enthusiastic because they have to keep
it harred.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
That makes sense, whereas with caver jackets, like they can
just go through the motions.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, there are some days that everybody needs a blue
Choo and if you need it, you can go to
bluetoo dot com and you just god only.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Get your first drive free.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
They do sponsor this podcast, so but uh so, yeah,
there are some days that everybody needs a blue Choo.

Speaker 5 (23:56):
Yeah, but I agree with you because.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, I mean, once it becomes like just it becomes
the mechanics of it. Yeah, and also too, you know,
like it can ruin your penis. I mean I think
we all know like one person in particular who can
no longer work yep.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
And there's a few that are on that path as
well right now.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
People always talk about how hard porn is on women
and how it like you know, ages them or whatever,
but I think that people don't like realize how hard
it is for men.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Oh it's so hard. Yeah, yeah, it's so hard.

Speaker 4 (24:29):
I've talked to a couple of the guys about it too,
just the whole you know, because I've even talked to
like both the men and women about just the emotional
aspect of it.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Because you always think, oh.

Speaker 4 (24:38):
Guys, there's no problem for them, but like there is
something about your body being used for a film and
there being no connection.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
And I think it even wears on the guys.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
Over time, Yeah, where it's just like meaningless, complete meaningless.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Sex that they're having every day.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
I remember I had Cody's deel on and he talked about,
you know, times when he's had to work with girls
who like weren't sure if they wanted to do porn
or weren't sure if they wanted to be there, and
he was like, that is the worst, because I don't
want to have sex with you if you don't want
to have sex with me.

Speaker 5 (25:10):
And now I'm being put in this position where.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
Like I feel like I'm yes, you know what I mean,
like pushing this boundary that I would normally never do it,
Like this is my job and you showed up for
the job too, and you say you want to do it,
but I could kind of tell you that you don't,
And it's like, how do you He.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
Shot one of those scenes with me recently but feels
so bad. Yeah, yeah, but what are you going to do?

Speaker 4 (25:34):
I mean, if somebody's consenting and saying they want to
be there, it's not for me or anyway to judge
what they individually want to do, right, we can perceive
it as something yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah, So, speaking of I wanted to talk to you
about like your thoughts on the rise of like the
influencer important because the industry has changed significantly since, you know,
the last time that we talked. With the rise of
OnlyFans and other content platforms, you know, you're getting a
lot of people that wouldn't maybe necessarily enter the adult

(26:05):
industry doing so, and then you know, really leaning into
like the hard marketing like social media and stuff, and
then they think, Okay, I got to do you know,
I'm going to do a scene for like a big brand,
only for the traffic they don't actually necessarily want to do,
you know, like they're not excited to shoot for browsers
because they want to shoot for browsers. They want the

(26:26):
traffic for browsers, and that's why they do the scene.
So have you experienced working with people like that?

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (26:33):
And I try and avoid it unless you know, there's
a couple people that are focused mainly on their only fans,
and they'll come and shoot for me occasionally, but like
a big you know, influencer, not so much, because they
wouldn't be seeking out they would seek out of browsers
or you know, somebody that's going to pay them an
obscene amount of money just for one scene. But I

(26:55):
will say that it's sort of we now in a
time where a lot of people don't have to show
up to set because they could just stay home, have
sex and make money or shoot content. And so getting
people to set there always has to be you know,
the paycheck is not an incentive anymore.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Really, I mean that's what's crazy. Yeah, But I will.

Speaker 4 (27:20):
Say like a lot of the people that I have
on set now are happy to be there, and I'm
fortunate for that. But I do get scared with the
influencer thing because I think these people are trying to
like up the anti I mean, you look at Bonnie
was there name Bonnie Blue Blue, Yeah, shooting and then
I heard somebody wants to do a five thousand anal thing.

(27:41):
I'm like, that's not even possible. But you're also harming
your body or heart. Just it's so dangerous, and I
think we live in a culture now where it's like clickbait.
What can I do to get more clicks, more attention?
And like how do you up that ante? Like Bonny
Blues Gangbang? Then you got to go to the next
thing and then the next and the next and the next.

Speaker 5 (28:00):
But it's also like it's weird.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
It's a double edged sword because how do you get recognized?
How do you Because I had her on before she
got big, like kind of right before she really started
to take off, Yeah, and she talked about you know,
finding your niche and like marketing and all that kind
of stuff. I mean, how do you stand out from
the crowd and clearly like she really saw that, like
there there was that opportunity, and I mean she took

(28:24):
a direction I guess I was really expecting.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
But and then that's like that is that.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
I mean it is reflective of society today and our
short attention spans and our over consumption of media and
the fact that we are walking around with like a
little you know, TV computer with us all day. And
I mean, like we're old enough to remember before there
were cell phones.

Speaker 4 (28:51):
I remember the little Hello, Yeah, I had had the
rotary Have you ever did a shoot with a girl?

Speaker 1 (28:59):
I've done this for if I've done like a retro
shoot with like an eighteen year old and I'm like,
here's a rotary phone, you know, because it's like we're
doing like a sixty style thing and she's.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
Like, what the fuck is Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
I mean yeah, I mean how would they know? Isn't
that scary?

Speaker 5 (29:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (29:15):
I think I honestly have to say I love that
I'm gen X because I feel like we are the
generation that got to see.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
The world purely.

Speaker 4 (29:26):
But also like, you know, before all this other crap
came into play, Yeah, we knew what it was like
to leave a voicemail on an answering machine and check
it and not know if somebody was available.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
And now we have everything. I mean, I.

Speaker 4 (29:39):
Noticed my attention span is really shot. Like when I drive,
I'm not as focused. It's just it's terrifying.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah, I don't know where how to get anywhere anymore
because I with maps. Yeah, you know, like trying to
find my way to my in law's house. I've been
there a million times, right, and every time we go there,
because you know, there was a period of time that
only I could and just like.

Speaker 5 (30:02):
Like, where are they again?

Speaker 1 (30:03):
And my husband was like, we've been together for nine years,
like we see them, Like, oh, how do you not
know how to get there yet?

Speaker 2 (30:10):
I'm like, I just don't pay attention. Yeah, you know, yep.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
And thank god cell phones weren't around when I was
at college.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Jesus Christ, Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (30:21):
I think about social media just like I mean, I
was bullied in high school, and I think to myself,
I feel for.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Kids today because they can't escape it. Like I could
escape it.

Speaker 4 (30:31):
Yeah, I could go home to my family and I
wasn't seeing it, But like kids today, and I think
about the performers too. They cannot escape the hateful fans
are saying like horrific things to that. Yeah, and it's
like all day long, all day long, unless they have
somebody managing their social media.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
I actually am often surprised that I don't get like
I mean, I definitely get negative comments.

Speaker 5 (30:52):
Most of them are on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Actually, I love the one you the one I posted
about being old.

Speaker 5 (30:58):
Love that guy was so great. That made me laugh
so hard.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
And I still like, go back and when I'm feeling sad,
I go back and I read that and it makes
me laugh.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yes, it was so good.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
It was something like, Hi, I saw your thumbnail and
I like clicked on your site and I joined, but
then I saw you are old.

Speaker 5 (31:21):
I'm very sorry he had to tell you. I was
love it.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Oh, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
There was just something about the way that he said
it which just like killed me. Yeah, and you know,
I mean, I mean that's obviously something that a lot
of you know, women who are in the milf era
here and just women like in general and in entertainment.

Speaker 4 (31:43):
Well there, I think just in general, I mean like
the transition of moving from I mean as a woman
like I look at young women today, and I'm just like,
you have no idea, but like, I don't know if
you remember, but like I remember the distinct moments where
it was like I no longer the girl that would
be checked out. I mean I never was like the

(32:04):
hot girl, but meaning where you graduate into ma'am and
men are not going out of their way to hold
the door for you anymore, like you're the old woman.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
So I don't have that exact experience because I actually
sort of look better now than I did in my
twenties because I was drinking so heavily in my twenties
that I had like a lot of alcohol bloat, so
like I did not look very good. I look back
at pictures of myself in my twenties, I'm like, how
did I get laid? It was just because I was easy,

(32:37):
but like I did, like I did not look good, Okay,
you know what I mean. I used to think I
didn't have cheekbones, and then I started to stop drinking
and I was like, oh, there they are so like
I weirdly like, okay, so you never went through that,
But I do remember the moment that I realized that
I was like old, and it was like such a

(32:57):
bizarre moment that just sticks in my head and and
it's like stupid and almost not worth telling. But I
was at a party and I stopped by a party
for some reason I can't remember, and I was there
for only like a short amount of time, and it
was all like these young.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Like hot people. It was a pool party.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
And they were like in bikinis and they were all
like partying, and I left for whatever reason, and I
just remember looking back at them, and I remember that
song was playing from What the fuck are they called
Owl something? It's not Owl Story, Well that's a terrible band.
It was like your Owl No, that sne it at all.

(33:37):
Oh my god, it's that one song It's always a
good time.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Carlie Ray. Yeah. And then who's the people that she.

Speaker 5 (33:47):
Does it with? The band owl.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
City thank You.

Speaker 4 (33:50):
I've never heard of owl City or this song okay
ol City thank.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
You, because I'm like, I don't know who that was.
I don't know this song.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
So it was like really popular at the time, and
it's very much like a young, you know, like party song.

Speaker 5 (34:03):
And I just remember and I remember like it.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Was the sun was setting and it was filtering through
the trees and there was like this dreamy haze all
over everything, and it was sort of like the snapshot
out of a movie. And I was like, I am
no longer in that group, you know what I mean,
Like I do not belong there at all.

Speaker 5 (34:21):
Think about it still.

Speaker 4 (34:22):
Isn't it weird though, because like it's weird. I mean
it's hard to like put it into words, but it
is a change that you can never go back to. Like,
it is a very drastic thing. I don't think men
face it as much.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
It's like laying in a tanning bed.

Speaker 4 (34:41):
I remember laying in a tanning bed in my twenties
going I'll never wrinkle, you know. I mean it's just
like you're so stupid, Yeah, and you don't realize that
it will go and.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
It goes fast.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah, I mean the future feels so far away. It does, yeah,
I meanmore, but yeah.

Speaker 5 (34:54):
I think about now.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
You know, like a teenager could turn to me and
be like, get out of the way, you middle aged woman,
and she would be right, yeah, no, I'm fucking middle aged.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
I was like, oh my god, I feel fifteen. Yeah,
I feel like inside I'm fifteen.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Do you think that it's because we spend so much
time with younger people, like no, I think I just
never like, you know, there's certain people that I feel
like are women, and then there's people that I think
are older that are still girls, and I feel like
that's me.

Speaker 4 (35:25):
Like I still watch Dawson's Creek and I feel like
I'm their age, you know, and.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
But I'm not.

Speaker 5 (35:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah, I remember definitely when I started to get to
the age where I became the same age as girls
parent mom. Yes, that's hard, you know, And I'd be like, oh,
you know, you remember Depeche Mode, right, And I'd be like,
oh you're oh yeah, my mom's your age, And I'm like,
are you fucking kidding me?

Speaker 2 (35:50):
Oh yeah, yeah, yep.

Speaker 5 (35:53):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
So you've been doing this now for over a decade.
What do you think has changed the most in the industry,
both for the better and for the worst. I mean,
I guess we sort of covered that, but is there
anything else that.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Like the money?

Speaker 4 (36:05):
The money, I think it's like when I started, I
felt like there was more. Look, there were still the
studios that were shelling out a lot of money, but
it felt like everyone had could be part of the game.
And now the money is so vastly different between companies.
Like I talked to somebody at one of the you

(36:27):
know media adult media outlets that had no idea I
was still shooting because I'm not shooting with a two
hundred three hundred, four hundred five hundred thousand budgets. So
like when it comes to AVN nominations or expis, like
people don't even I'm not even a thought because I'm
not doing anything that can compete with anyone anyway. So
it's so different, like you're not even in the game anymore, right,

(36:48):
you know, I'm in my own game, but I'm not
part of the game of the industry.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
I remember talking to Quasar about how, you know, because
he's like famous for working with like tiny budgets and
you know, doing quite a bit with a small budget. Yeah,
and we were saying there should be an award for
like best Movie for budget, like I don't know, under
like thirty thousand dollars or something like that. Yeah, I mean,
how do you feel about the fact that there's such

(37:16):
a drastic difference in budget that like certain directors get,
and like how it affects, you know, what people think
is like good porn.

Speaker 4 (37:26):
I think the thing I struggle with is that unless
you're you know, of course, when you have these gigantic
budgets and you're shooting in an airplane, you know, and
the girls love it because they get great pictures and
all this, you know, hooplah. It's it's still it's hard
because I think there's still good porn that's done.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
I think I do good porn. It's just not on
a budget.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
I'm not you know, buying Honey Burdette Lingerie for the girls.
Like I'm shooting at the same porn houses, and we're
just doing the best we can with the budgets we have.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
But I think that that.

Speaker 4 (37:59):
Gets lost, Like I think people tend to forget that,
like money does not mean it's good.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
And that's not to say that it's not.

Speaker 4 (38:06):
I mean, like you look at Ricky Greenwood does amazing
stuff and he gets huge budgets, but like there's people
that get huge budgets that you're like, why are they
getting so much money? But it's the companies that they
work for. What would you do with a huge budget.
I don't even know, because I feel like I'm in
the quasar camp and like I've worked with low budgets
for so long that I cannot imagine when people say

(38:28):
they shot a porn for two hundred thousand dollars, I'm like,
where did that money go? Because I don't see it
on the film, Like maybe I see it in like
the set deck that they have, Like there's people that
have people set decking for them, Like I've never had
that in my life, Like, I cannot even imagine having that.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
That would be crazy to me.

Speaker 4 (38:46):
Yeah, So I think I would hire people like that
and maybe wardrobe and maybe better locations.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
But I just don't think you need two hundred thousand
dollars to shoot a porn movie.

Speaker 4 (38:58):
I shot a Showtime series four or three hundred thousand
so and that was like a series.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
These people are shooting like one movie for that. It's
crazy to me. I'm assuming that they submit the budgets
to the company, yeah, I or money laundering.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
That doesn't happen mborn. So what do you consider good porn?
What makes a good porn scene?

Speaker 4 (39:20):
For me? I think it's it's really feeling the connection
and the tension between the people. I think the one
thing I have learned working with Blessa that I never
did before was I used to care so much about
the story because I was doing features that all I
cared about was the story, screw the sex, like all
zone out during the sex.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
But with Blessa, it is about the sex.

Speaker 4 (39:40):
So I'm focusing on really like those moments and the
tension and the sex that makes it hot. So for me,
I think good porn is tension built up that carries
through the entire scene, not just in the first two minutes.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Now, you mentioned that you went through kind of like
an identity crisis a little bit.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah when you so was it when you left New Sensations.
I think it was like a gradual It took a
few years, but.

Speaker 4 (40:07):
Yes, yeah, when I when I was with New Sensations,
like I was getting a lot of attention, you know,
we were winning awards and I was getting interviews with
you know, mainstream publications, and there was just a lot
of attention. Like I remember, I think the identity crisis began,
like you know, when I said the moment of when

(40:28):
you feel old with porn, when I felt like it
was over for.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Me, was I was always the girl asked to do panels.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
This is so stupid, it's so sad, but it is
so reflective of the reality, which was I was always
like I was doing three or four panels.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
I was invited to AV and they were screening my movies.

Speaker 4 (40:48):
I was presenting like all this stuff, and then I
was the backup panel girl where they called me because
somebody else couldn't be there. And then I realized, oh,
and you start to see like, oh, there's no more nominations,
there's no more like the fact that the guy didn't
even know I was shooting, and I fell into a
deep depression because it's like hard to go from being

(41:11):
kind of I don't want to see the it girl
because I wasn't the it girl, but I was getting
a lot of attention early and fast to go from
that to you don't even get a nomination. Nobody's inviting
you to the like nomination party, because of course why
would you go. You're not even getting numbed. And I
don't think awards are important, but I like being liked.

(41:31):
It felt like I wasn't liked anymore. Like I felt
like I wasn't that person, and that was hard because
the wards, you know, that's meaningless. Really it truly is like,
but being respective for what you do that's important, and
I feel like I'm being remembered and being remembered and

(41:52):
like I'm not even an afterthought, Like it's just it's
funny because it's like wow, but you see it happen.
I've seen it happen to other people too, and I
often wonder, like, wonder if they're going through what I
went through. M it's really hard to to feel like
you're on top of the world, to feel like you're
absolutely nobody.

Speaker 5 (42:10):
Yeah, has that feeling changed for you?

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:13):
Like I I started getting my I start, I said,
do I want to? Like, I think you have to
ask yourself, like, is this where I want my my
world to be?

Speaker 2 (42:23):
So I want to be the remembered as a pornographer? No,
I want to I want to do good things.

Speaker 4 (42:29):
So I started, I went to started going to grad
school and I'll be graduating in March to get my
masters in Marriage and Family therapy. And I've been practicing
therapy on top of doing porn.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
So that's kind of my directing porn is kind of
like sometimes it's doing therapy. Oh yeah, there are days
that I've been a therapist and I'm sure you can relate.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Oh yeah, yeah. Managing a lot of personalities, a lot
of drama.

Speaker 4 (42:53):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's hard, and I mean, I
don't know if you've ever felt that way. I mean
I think it's like for women, it's like age and
then it's with me.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Was this, I mean it was hard, Like I was
very depressed.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Well I've I mean, I've mentioned this before, but I
went through the exact same experience pretty much. So there
was a time in the summer that I was, in
the same month fired from Playboy, like straight up fired.
Cooper Hefner came in and he did not like me,
and he would be kicked to the curb. Somebody not

(43:27):
like you, is my question.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
That's so sweet. I mean I'm being honest, like, oh,
I think I'm so annoying.

Speaker 4 (43:33):
Really yeah, okay, I don't know you on that level,
like work wise, were you annoying?

Speaker 2 (43:39):
I just think I'm annoying. No, okay, okay, go on,
I'm like, no, I just I don't know.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
I mean, I can't listen to this show. Who like
people who have like listened to all four hundred and
something of my episodes?

Speaker 2 (43:52):
What's wrong with you? You guys are great? Just kidding,
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
But yeah, anyways, you got fire Okay, so I got fired.
I mean, I have the screen grabs. The best part
is I've told the stories so many times, so forgive
me if you guys have heard this. But they accidentally
sent me meeting notes, minute notes from a meeting, and
in there they talked about firing me and they called

(44:20):
me a bad producer, which wasn't true. Like you cannot
like my style, you can think of annoying whatever, but
I was not a bad producer. I had my shit together.
My paperwork was fucking on top. I was on top
of my paperwork, My shit was in on time. I
did everything you wanted. My stuff looked good, like yeah, anyways,
uh yeah, so that's how I found out.

Speaker 5 (44:41):
Okay, it was pretty I mean that was like.

Speaker 4 (44:44):
It is funny when you think about it now now
it's funny, but at the time, oh, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
And you know how long it took me to work
for Playboy, Like they slammed the door in my face
for years? Wow, because I worked in porn, you know,
even though my mother like was like one of the
first female photographers there. Yeah, in fact, the first female
photographer that was ever put on staff there. When I
wanted to shoot for them. They were and this is

(45:10):
back you know, when hef was like really running things.
They were like, oh no, we don't want anything to
do with you because you do porn, you know.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Right, so you can't be talented.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yeah, well just like they they didn't want like the association,
and also like they were very closed off, you know,
and they had like all the people that they needed,
and they had you know, all of that. I mean, look, hey,
maybe they just didn't like my work too. I say
it's because I did porn, but that may not be
the reason. But anyways, you know, wouldn't like let me
in the door. And then finally when it was my

(45:42):
geek at the time is now Alu, when they took
over running their website for a while, That's when I
got in. And then I shot for them for like
six seven years, and I was like their main producer.

Speaker 5 (45:53):
I did all their Cybergirls of the Year.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
We went to.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
Mexico, Costa Rica, like I did, you know, like some
of the best work of.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
My I shot for Playboy.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
So anyways, and that was like the one thing that
I could tell people that I shot for you know, well, like, yeah,
I met my mother, my mother in law, I could
be like, I shoot for a Playboy.

Speaker 5 (46:11):
I'm not going to tell her I.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Shoot for Pross, but I could tell her I shoot
for Playboy and that was okay. So that and then
Twisties just like kind of stop using me, like they
know it was trickling.

Speaker 5 (46:25):
They were going through like a transition.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
They're like they're a completely different company now, but they
went through a period where it was, you know, it
was not the same anyways.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
So so like my two main clients, like they're pretty
much the only people I worked for, just gone like that,
and I was like.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
What am I going to do now?

Speaker 1 (46:47):
You know? And I think this was also too when
like a lot of the step Brother step Mother porn
was like really getting up there and it was more
and there wasn't like a lot of glamour no, you know,
and that's my style. And I was like, I don't
think there's a place for me anymore. And I was like,

(47:08):
what am I going to do? Am I going to
shoot mainstream? I mean I even started on Instagram that
was like, you know, a different handle and like posted
stuff up on there that wasn't I was like, I
mean I could go worund with my portfolio and try
to get work like you know what I mean, and
then have to work with celebrities, which I don't want
to know, Oh my god, no, thank you.

Speaker 5 (47:28):
I much rather work with porn stars. They're way easier
to deal.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
So yeah, so I didn't I didn't know what to do,
and I was so depressed. And then I was invited
on a podcast for the boxing gym that I worked at,
and I met Ernie and I was like, hey, if
I like started a podcast, people are like doing this thing.
And I was like, what do I like to do?
Because I was trying to figure out, like how am

(47:55):
I relevant? Like what else can I do besides you know, shooting?
And I was like, well, I like to talk obviously,
and like I know everybody in the industry, and I
feel like they trust me. And I've always felt that
if people, you know, people who judge sex workers, if
they just knew them, if they just like spent a
day with them, they just sat down and talked to them,

(48:18):
they would realize that they are some of the funniest,
most intelligent, most creative, inspirational like people, like they're incredible,
you know, they're all sorts. And I was like, well,
I feel like nobody really ever like talks to people
like that. Why don't I try this podcast thing? I

(48:38):
heard some people are doing it. I actually thought it
was this was what seven years ago. I thought it
was too late to get into the podcast game back then.
Oh really, I know, it felt like I was coming
like too late, and so yeah, so I started the
show and I did not expect that it would be anything,
and it ended up being the best thing I ever did.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
See.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
That's the thing it's like to get to where you
feel that level of peace.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Yeah, you kind of had to go through it.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Yeah, I mean, and I try to remember that, you know,
when I when I'm going through something that's really hard
or really difficult, it's like, on the other side is
something better always, and it's always like that as long
as you can take whatever you're going through is like
a learning experience.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yes, but it's hard.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah yeah, And in the moment it's like almost impossible
to see that for sure.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
But there's always like, you know, I think, what the
phoenix like, you get a burn down.

Speaker 5 (49:33):
To the ashes rise up.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
So yeah, So I really like absolutely relate like so
much to to what you're saying.

Speaker 4 (49:43):
Yeah, so hard times hard times, but look at us
we're doing.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Look how great we're doing. I'm just so happy.

Speaker 5 (49:53):
I think also too, like in terms of shooting for me.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
And obviously this happened after I had been doing my
podcast for a couple of years. Uh, once I had
a kid, I found that I didn't care that much.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Really.

Speaker 5 (50:07):
I was so surprised.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
I all, like, all the emotional effort and energy I
put into like desiring awards and desiring all these accolades
and wanting to really get to the top and you know,
have everybody look up to me and you know, be this.

Speaker 5 (50:28):
Wonderful example of the industry.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Once I had a kid, I just it doesn't matter.

Speaker 5 (50:34):
I just I just stopped. I literally just stopped caring.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
That's so yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
And it was it was like that, and I could
never get it back. I could never start caring again.

Speaker 4 (50:44):
Isn't that great though, because I look at these people,
I see people crying.

Speaker 5 (50:47):
I didn't get on.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Don't like, it really doesn't matter.

Speaker 4 (50:50):
It's not going to affect your paychecker. Dah da dah
you know there's so much more. But yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
I also kind of lost my passion for shooting, too,
which kind of sucked.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Oh okay, you know what I mean. I lost that yet.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Yeah, I just once I just didn't, you know, I
didn't want to spend twelve hours on set every day,
and you will know, you know, I wanted to go
home right to my kid. And I just, I mean,
I still like and it got to the point where
I would get like my order for a shoot, and
you know, this is like when I was working for

(51:22):
Twisties and like it was great. They were paying me
more than I'd ever been paid by any other company.
They gave me tons of creative control, they gave me
a great budget. I was shooting beautiful girls, like my
stuff looked awesome, like it was like the dream.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Right. But every time I would get a production order,
like my heart would sink. I'd be like, oh and
I yeah, And I was like, what the fuck is
wrong with me? Right?

Speaker 1 (51:45):
And I felt so angry with myself because I felt
like ungrateful and I felt, you know, like.

Speaker 5 (51:51):
Really, just this is what you're who you're supposed to be.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
You're supposed to be this person that loves this, this
is this was supposed to be your whole life, right,
And I just and I would get to set and
I would have.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
A great time of course, you know, love my crew,
love the girls.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
This stuff would come out and I'd be so proud
of it, so like, but it was always getting like
the job and like, of course I want the job.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
I need the money. Like if I didn't get the job,
that'd be bad. But like I couldn't stop that like
sinking feeling it was really odd, which is a sign,
which is a sign.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Yeah, and then I stopped shooting and I don't miss it, yeah,
like at all.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
There was another woman in the business that said the
same thing. When she stopped, she was like, I don't
miss it at all, and I don't miss it.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Yeah. She also had kids and that's where it happened
for her. Yeah, yeah, don't do it. They change your life. No,
I never will. These are these eggs are dried up people.
You gonna have it.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
But yeah, I mean it was kind of disappointing because
work had always been like the most important thing to
me and it was everything, like that was my baby,
right of course, and it was my identity.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Then when it happened, I was like, okay, now what Yeah,
now my.

Speaker 5 (53:03):
Identity is being a mom.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Like great that No, I know but you know what
I mean, Yes, idea, I would be one of those people.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Yes, yes, yes, so yeah. Do you want to see
baby pictures after the past? I'm just kidding.

Speaker 4 (53:17):
I saw the well after the baby shower. You sent
the picture of her with the doll or the bear.

Speaker 5 (53:22):
Oh, yes, with the little bear that she got.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
I know, I was so precious. No, I know, I know.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Okay, let's get back to porn. If you had the
power to reshape how porn is made, what is the
one thing about the industry that you would get rid
of first or change.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
I would say I would make the sex scenes five minutes.
And it's not because I hate shooting a thirty mins. See,
but I don't look at the end of the day.

Speaker 4 (53:47):
I'm sure if they do, if they're tracking, like on
porn hub or whatever, like how much time people are
actually watching the scene?

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Are they watching the duration of the scene.

Speaker 4 (53:59):
No, I'd be shocked if somebody's sitting there for the
whole scene watching it like they're watching it to get off,
And once they've gotten off, why are we doing another
twenty five minutes?

Speaker 1 (54:09):
Well, here's the problem is because everybody wants a different
part of the sine yeah, of course, some people want
the blowjob, some people want the doggies, some people want
the missionary.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
But that's why you got to shoot five minutes of
each one.

Speaker 4 (54:23):
But I think that's men. Yeah, because if you look
at like Nipho Maniac. I don't know if you watch that.
It was on Netflix, but they did have like hardcore.
I guess you could say like sex, like you saw
penises and you know whatever. And I thought it was
really sexy, and I think a lot of women probably

(54:43):
would agree with me. And so the reason why I
say that is I think it's like so much of
it is is for the tube sides.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
It is to get chopped up. It's perfluous.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
So I would say, let's do good stuff movies or
whatever that has sex, but not a thirty minute sex scene.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
I think it's also hard to like, I think as
a filmmaker, you look at that, and nobody wants to
watch thirty minutes of any one particular thing in a movie.
You know, like every scene in a movie is like
two minutes. You want to move on, like, okay, you
get the point, like you got it, next scene, next scene,
next scene, like keep the viewer engaged, keep the viewer active. Yes,

(55:21):
like thirty minutes. It's a nice same thing. Oh my god,
I'm like, does anybody have sex for thirty minutes?

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Is this just me?

Speaker 5 (55:29):
Oh god, I feel like that just seems so long?

Speaker 4 (55:32):
I know, right, I mean, hey, props to the people
that do. But I'm like, God, there's so many things
to do.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
I'm sorry, Oh my god, we should just do a
series of like an old women gribing about born. No,
we are not old. We're not old, We're just veterans.
We are legends, is what we are. Legends for sure. Yeah,
what are you excited about out in the future of porn?

Speaker 5 (56:02):
Or are you afraid of?

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Well? AI? For sure. I think everyone's on that page.
I think AI. I think what scares me about AI.
And it's not just with porn's with everything.

Speaker 4 (56:12):
It's going to replace writers, it's going to replace a
lot of things, you know, performers, because the AI can
do whatever. I mean, it can do any position. It's
not gonna get sore, it's whatever. So I think that
that scares me.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
A lot. And the more it advances, I think, the
more we're going to see it.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Do you think that people though won't get won't enjoy
it as much as real people because it's not a
real person, and like on a deep level, like we
desire that human connection.

Speaker 4 (56:41):
I think that our generation perhaps, what are you, Are
you a millennial? No, I'm gen X, Okay, so I
think our generation does. But like I there is a
girl in the business that has an AI boyfriend and
she was talking to me about it and it was
so fascinating and I was.

Speaker 6 (56:58):
Just like, she was like, he is the greatest in
the world, and she was just completely and I'm like,
but it's not real, Like it's just saying, it's not
emoting the way a real person would and she just
doesn't it's not clicking in the sense of And there's
a lot more people that are doing that, that have
like chat GPT friend like their friend.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Yeah, and it's becoming more and more common. So I
don't know.

Speaker 4 (57:22):
I think younger generations might not have a problem with it.
For me, yeah, I mean I want to see a
real person, But I don't know. I think that it's
an old way of viewing it to say they won't
because it's not real.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
I think the younger generations might be fine with it.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
So this move into family therapy is a really good
idea because all these people are going to be super
fucked up because said you're moving on to the other side,
where you gotta like, I mean, there's still going to
need to be more therapist.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
There's not enough therapist right now. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
I mean, and there of course there's people using chat
GPT for therapy, but I feel like there's always going
to be a need for therapy, at least for the
older people.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
I'll take the old people on's mine. I'll take the
old people. All right, Well, Jackie, thank you so much.
I love you too.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
We do have questions from our Patreon members, which we
will do in a separate segment. And if you are
a Patreon member, you can send in your questions for
my guests and obviously watch them give their answers. If
you're not, you can't, so oh well, too bad for you.
But you can also join at patreon dot com slash

(58:34):
Holly Randall Unfiltered. It's like five dollars a month, so
it's not that much. Jackie Darling, where can people find
you online? Twitter or sorry x Instagram.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
It's all Jackie, Saint James, Jackie with a y Saint
St James and then Jackie Saint James dot com which
I never update, but you can see some old content,
not sex content, but just you.

Speaker 5 (58:58):
Know, yeah, got it off.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
And you guys can find me on Instagram and on
Twitter slash x at Holly Randall. I already gave you
my Patreon plug. Go to hollylinks dot com for access
to all of my platforms. Thank you guys so much
for joining. I really appreciate you being here and I
will see you on the next one.