Glenn goes one on one with fellow podcaster and improv performer Tina Dietz. Tina is a long-time podcaster that Glenn met 10 years ago. She is also a fellow improv actor and she runs a company that voices and records audio books, plus she is a digital nomad. They talk about all of that in today’s special One on One. Listen in...
HORSES IN THE MORNING Episode 3794 – Show Notes and Links:
- Hosts: Jamie Jennings of Flyover Farm and Glenn the Geek
- Pic Credit: Tina Dietz
- Guest: Tina Dietz, Twin Flames Studios
- Additional support for this podcast provided by: US Rider, Care Credit, Equine Network and Listeners Like You
Time Stamps:
06:24 - The Journey into Podcasting
19:00 - Exploring Remote Audiobook Production
29:57 - The Impact of Audiobooks on Voices and Stories
32:43 - Transitioning to a Digital Nomad Lifestyle
46:01 - Cultural Adjustments and Perspectives
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
You are listening to the HorseRadio Network, part of the Equine
Network family.
What a beautiful day forHorses in the morning.
You are listening to thenumber one horse podcast in the world.
Here is your entertaining lookat the horse world and the people
(00:24):
in it.
I'm Glenn McGee coming to youfrom Ocala, Florida and you're listening
to Horses in the Morning onthe Horse Radio Network for Friday,
October 10th Episode 3794.
This episode is brought to youby Kentucky Performance Products.
Good Morning Horse World.
(00:45):
Well, as you know, Jamie and Iare off this week and Jen and I are
out visiting Ashley right nowin New Mexico for the big balloon
festival and Jamie is doingher Monte Roberts clinic.
So we have a special week ofshows for you.
Jamie did some one on onesthat you can tune into that are already
out.
Monday she had Nelda fromHorse and Hound and Wednesday she
had Olympian Tad Coffin.
(01:07):
Today I have a one on one for you.
I know some of you enjoy whenI bring on some of my podcasting
friends.
Today is one of those days.
So if you don't like listeningto anything but horses, then we'll
see you back here on Monday.
Tina Dietz is a longtimepodcaster that I met maybe 10 years
ago.
She's also a fellow improvactor and she runs a company that
(01:27):
voices and records audiobooks.
Plus she is a digital nomadworking while traveling the world.
We're going to talk about allof that stuff that she does in today's
episode right after we hearfrom Kentucky Performance Products.
Hang around.
I think you'll like it.
This nutritional minute isbrought to you by Kentucky Performance
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Tina, it's so good to have youon my show after all these years
we've known each other.
I know.
I feel like every time we gettogether and talk, we should hit
(03:41):
the record button.
And finally we are.
I think it's got to be 10years ago I met you at Podfest.
Yeah, I think it was.
It was the very early years,second podfest.
And what's ironic is Tina usedto live very close to me and we would
never get together.
For some reason, I don't know,we never get together.
And then you moved closer.
I know.
And then you left.
Yeah.
So we have you on to talkabout a couple of things.
(04:03):
Tina and I have a lot in common.
One, podcasting, obviously,but two, Tina also is very active
in improv theater, so we havethat in common.
And then what I want to focusa lot of time toward the end of the
show on is you're a travelingworking nomad.
Yes.
And international travelingworking nomad, which is a thing now.
(04:26):
But this is the second timeyou've done it.
And I'm thinking the firsttime you did it, it wasn't a thing
that you were kind of in theearly days of it.
It was early.
Yeah, it was the very earlydays of it.
Yeah.
But we'll get into all of that.
So.
So you did you start.
What was your start in business?
Mine was in the.
In the financial world.
Where was your start?
Mine was my childhood.
(04:46):
My parents had a wood burningstove and fireplace business downstairs
in our house, and we lived upstairs.
So I was steeped like a teabagin this stuff from the time I was
three.
It was.
Yeah, it was.
That's where.
That's how I started.
And I'm an only child, so Ihad no choice but to have this business
is basically a younger sibling.
What'd you learn from that asa kid?
(05:07):
Oh, as a kid, you know, ittook me a long time to actually realize
what I got out of it becauseit wasn't until I tried to join the
workforce as a regularemployee that I realized that my
view of business was not thesame as everybody else or my view
of work wasn't the same aseverybody else.
So my inclination is always tosee a problem, you know, I'll solve
(05:30):
it, check out the hook whilethe DJ revolves it.
Like, I'm just going to like,go ahead and do it.
And then I would get fired forsolving problems.
And it took me years to kindof figure out, like, why don't they
appreciate me?
Why don't they understand Ihad no sense of chain of command
or any of those kinds of things.
When you're an entrepreneur,there's a problem, you fix it.
(05:53):
Yeah, exactly.
You know, I reorganized anentire office files for a major huge
dental practice, finished itvery proudly, showed them because
I was reducing the risktremendously because I found all
kinds of duplicate patientfiles and all kinds of stuff.
They called me in the office,said thank you, handed and walked
(06:14):
me out the door.
Don't fix anything.
It's not broke.
Don't fix it.
So how did you eventuallystart getting into podcasting then?
Oh, geez.
Well, podcasting startedbecause I was invited to be a guest
on some shows years ago.
I had a business coachingconsultancy and I've always loved
(06:35):
microphones.
I grew up singing, dancing,musical theater, you know, all, all
of the things that hasn't,that hasn't changed.
I'm.
There's no such thing as aformer theater kid, you know.
You know, that's true.
And so I was on a couple ofonline radio shows.
They weren't even being calledpodcasts at the time.
This is 2012, 2013, maybe even earlier.
(07:00):
And everybody that I was onwith said, why don't you have your
own show?
Why don't you have your own show?
And so in 2015, I decided tomake the leap into trying and doing
a podcast of my own.
Worked with an amazingcompany, they're still around, called
Cash Flow Podcasting andlaunched my first show and then fell
in love with it so much that Iended up talking with the owner and
(07:21):
asking if I could work withhim and to help grow his company.
And then I was basically hiscoach, his.
His podcast coach for a numberof years until both my venture and
his venture got big enoughthat we kind of parted ways on that.
But it's.
It was a wonderful experienceand something I'll always be grateful
for, for Ben Krueger, theowner, for letting me in on.
(07:43):
I want to get to what you'reDoing now, which is in relation to
audiobooks and things likethat, which is an area that a lot
of people are looking at rightnow too.
But before we do that, let'sgo back to improvisation.
Did that start in high school, college?
Where did your improv lovecome from?
No, I mean, I didn't get achance to do improv really in high
school and whatnot.
That was all musical theater.
Yeah.
And.
And I couldn't sing, so I was out.
(08:07):
You can hum.
Yes, I helped out, but I could.
I didn't do anything on stageat that point.
Yeah, exactly.
I don't know.
I think you might have made a good.
Hung like Henry Hill from theMusic Man.
I always wanted to play Tevyev in.
In.
Oh, yeah.
Fiddler on the Roof.
Fiddler on the Roof, yeah.
But I can't sing, so.
But I thought I loved.
I know all the words to allthe Tevyev songs in Fiddler on the
(08:29):
Roof, so.
Oh, don't even get me started.
Yeah, that's one of those things.
But I just always was doing that.
Anything involving amicrophone is something I'm in favor
of.
I love karaoke.
I'm the person that willorganize karaoke outings at conferences
and things like that.
I've seen you sing.
Yeah.
(08:49):
And very well too.
Thank you.
I appreciate that kind of stuff.
So I just.
I fell back into improvseveral years ago when in.
In Gainesville, Florida, whereI was living.
There's a.
A group there for a long timecalled the Gainesville Improv Guild.
And they started doingcommunity improv on Tuesday nights.
And I walked in and I never left.
(09:09):
So I spent about three yearsplaying in improv, mostly short form
improv.
For the improv nerds outthere, short form and long form are
two very different things andhelping to grow the community.
And I also did some standupwhile I was there.
So now that I'm.
How hard is stand up?
Far away in Nova Scotia.
One of the things that wascrucial to me and where I was living
(09:31):
is I needed to have access toan improv community.
And that actually figured intomy digital nomading in choosing locations.
All right, we'll get to that.
I've got to keep that in mind.
How hard is stand up comparedto improv?
It's got to be so much harder.
It's so much harder.
Yeah.
I mean.
Oh my God.
Oh, yeah.
Because you got to know those jokes.
You can't improv.
(09:52):
You know, you have to bepresent and like, it's very much
building on each other andBuilding in.
In the sense of belonging.
Listening is mathematical.
Yeah.
And the timing and justgetting the.
The punchline right.
And just.
It's memorization.
Right.
I mean, it's just a lot of it.
A lot of it.
But also having to be presentto the audience, but also having
(10:13):
to remember what you'retalking about.
But also like one worcompletely change a joke.
Also, there's a milliondifferent kinds of.
Style of stand up and pacingand just the whole thing.
Yeah, yeah, it's wild.
It's really fun.
It's really good stuff.
But, boy, did that give me abigger appreciation for people who
are really, really good at it.
(10:34):
You had to be a lot morenervous for that than you ever were
for improv.
You know, it's funny, Iactually have a harder time performing
improv than I have performinganything else because it's not rehearsed.
Oh, that's interesting becauseusually improv performers are the
other way.
Little inner perfectionist inme that sometimes I find a little
hard on stage in front of anaudience to let go and be really
(10:57):
in the moment, the same waythat I am in rehearsal.
So I've actually just beenaccepted into an improv team here
in Halifax through thespontaneity improv company called
the Hot Moms.
I fit right in and I'm reallylooking forward to playing with them
and, you know, doing a bitmore muscle on the actual performance
side of things.
When I owned the actingcompany, which is right over my shoulder
(11:19):
here, there's a picture of theacting company.
We did the Medieval feast.
We did 450 shows over 10years, and I got nervous for every
single one.
I played the king, so I.
And I was kind of running theshow too.
It was a dinner theater.
So, you know, I knew when thefood was going to be late and we'd
have to vamp and, you know,all of that I was in.
I was directing as the king,which worked perfectly because, you
know, with our company, if theking said do something, you did it,
(11:41):
or you.
You got fired because therewas a reason I was telling them to
do something.
And we had a cast about 20that stayed with almost the whole
10 years.
We had the same people and Istill got nervous.
But as soon as you walked out,that was it.
As soon as I walked out and Iwas on, I wasn't nervous.
The rest of the time, you just go.
You just.
And especially when you'rewith a cast that's been together
(12:02):
a long time, you just knoweach other.
It's like the.
Whose line is it.
Anyway, guys, you know, theyknow each other so well.
They know what the other person.
I knew what my jester wasgoing to do when I looked at him,
you know, I knew where he wasgoing to go.
Even though it was all improv kind.
Of chemistry, just can'tsubstitute that for anything else.
It's brilliant.
My jester's still alive.
He's older now, and his wifejust passed away, but he's still
(12:24):
doing Renaissance fairs.
This is 40 years later andstill as a jester, and we did 450
shows together.
We did every one of thoseshows together.
Other cast would come and godepending on the size they would
hire and things, but we didthem all.
And I'll tell you what, I'venever had so much fun with one guy,
and he was.
I mean, he was brilliant.
(12:44):
He's a brilliant improv performer.
Have you ever thought about,like, if you.
If you tried it again now, ifit would still work?
Oh, it'd be so damn much easier.
I'll tell you why.
It's because we were in thedays of pre Internet, so we were
selling tickets to open thepublic shows at Stokesley Castle
and reading by doing radio andnewspaper, and they would have to
send checks.
(13:05):
I mean, there was no Internet.
We.
We were making your owncostumes because you couldn't find
any place to buy them.
I mean, it was just.
Can you imagine how mucheasier it would all be now with,
you know.
I think so much easier to.
To set up and potentiallyharder to actually sell the tickets
because there's so many morecompeting things going on that.
But you certainly could getthe word out with social media a
(13:26):
lot easier than you could inthe past.
And look at you.
Totally could.
And you know, Renaissancefairs, I always thought they were
going to die off and because,you know, I was at the start of Pennsylvania.
Oh, my God, they're so busynow, you can't even get into the
places.
It's nuts.
Glenn, if you ever wanted tostart it back up again, I'm sure
you could.
I think that's too much workfor me at my age.
What do you.
(13:47):
I, you know, I preach.
Everybody should do improv.
Every, Every podcaster, everyperson that runs a business, every
salesperson should do improv.
My success in sales, mysuccess as an entrepreneur, my success,
every success I've had, Icredit improv theater for.
Do you feel the same way?
(14:08):
Oh, of course.
Of course.
Yeah.
The.
So building on what somebodyelse is saying, taking the premise
to be true, building a worldtogether, being able to create that
Sense of belonging, notdenying somebody else's truth.
The listening that comes intoplay, like it's not about being funny,
(14:28):
it's about being present andbeing in relationship with whoever's
there in front of you.
That's, I mean, that's what Ilove more than anything is that it
creates such a beautiful spaceof belonging.
I mean, we in, in Gainesville,we had a very, very inclusive group
of people.
And I mean that in thebroadest sense of the word.
(14:50):
And because the communityimprov was and is still free, people
would come in and they wouldfeel okay to try something.
And I, we would just hear overand over, even after just one 2 hour
hangout session together, wow,this felt really good.
You know, I felt really welcome.
I felt really open.
I didn't feel pressured.
(15:10):
It's like I learned something.
And even if they never cameback again, we would usually hear
that, that kind of feedback.
And, and this is, you know,for all kinds of differently abled
folks as well.
So it was, it was reallygratifying to, to see that and be
a part of it.
And, you know, I think it.
And everywhere I've beentraveling this year, I've experienced
(15:32):
improv.
So it holds true from countryto country, which is interesting.
I think it's made.
I'm going to brag a little.
I think I'm a pretty good interviewer.
I mean, we've done, We'veinterviewed over 7,000 people on
horses in the morning.
I think you got proof forthat, Glenn.
Yeah, so, but I think it'simprov that made me a better interviewer
(15:53):
for sure.
And I think people who haven'thad that kind of theater experience
are missing out a little bit.
Yeah, you can be good at, be agood interviewer without it.
I just think it definitelyhelps you be more aware and what
else it helps you with.
And this is the thing I hatewhen I listen to podcasts is they're
interviewing somebody and the,the guest throws out the Golden Nugget,
(16:16):
that, that thing that as alistener you're going, God, ask about
that now you want to just know more.
And they go right by itbecause they want to get to their
next question.
And they completely missed theGolden Nugget.
The thing that would have madethat episode sing that, that thing
they threw out that was out ofleft field and they didn't want to
follow it.
And as a listener, I'm going, why?
That's the only thing I caredabout in this 20 minutes.
(16:38):
You know, I think that, that it.
Improv teaches you to Followthat golden nugget.
Yeah, that's true.
Just keep, keep after it andkeep growing it and seeing how far
you can take it.
And if it doesn't go anywhere,you edit it out, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Although they usually gosomewhere and it's the best piece
of the whole.
It's definitely the best piece.
And on the opposite side ofthings, a guest on a podcast who
(17:01):
comes so attached to thematerial that they have to cover.
I mean, I rememberinterviewing some.
Honestly, it's really bignames, big name authors, big name
speakers.
Could not get them off theirdamn tracks.
Their marketing to have aninteresting conversation because
all they want is the damnsound bites to kind of push their
whatever it is.
I'm so boring.
(17:23):
So listeners are listening tothis now.
Wonder why we don't have bigname clinicians on and things.
Sometimes it's because that'swhat we get.
We get the marketing messageand that's the whole interview.
And for Jamie and I, that'sjust boring, you know, it's just
boring.
We want to have aconversation, you know, like we're
having today.
That's what we want to have.
Yeah, those folks are betterto have a sponsors.
Yeah, let's face it.
That's right.
Yeah.
We're going to take a quickbreak because I do have sponsors,
(17:45):
Tina.
So we're going to take a break.
We're going to take a quickbreak, we're going to come back and
we're going to talk about whatyou're doing now.
And then I want to end withyour Nomad bad life because I, if
I was younger I would so dowhat you're doing right now.
But.
And if I didn't have horses inthe yard.
But let's, let's come back ina minute.
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Vetmed so, Tina, you have acompany called Twin Flames.
What's Twin Flames do?
Twin Flames Studios.
Yeah.
We produce two things.
We are the premier provider inthe world of remote recorded and
(19:10):
produced audiobooks.
That is what we're known for.
Does that mean somebody wrotea book and you're doing the audio
version?
We're doing the audiobook.
Yeah, we're doing theaudiobook and we produce it remotely.
You don't have to go into astudio, you don't go into a booth.
Nope.
But you do get fully producedand directed with another human being
the full time.
You don't need any major techor anything like that.
(19:31):
I started producing audiobooksin 2015 and very and focused on nonfiction
because there were really nooptions for nonfiction authors at
that time to get theiraudiobooks done with support and
that were independent authorsand things like that.
And we got tired of trying towork with studios and set things
(19:52):
up and it got very cost prohibitive.
So we said, well, if we canpodcast and we can do these other
things, why can't we do remoteaudiobook production?
So I worked with my soundengineer, actually.
Same same dude still on myteam all these years later, and we
created this process.
And that's so 500 audiobookslater, that's.
(20:12):
That's where we are.
So that's our primary breadand butter.
And I know people realize howthey think that sounds easy to do.
But audible is very pickyabout sound quality.
Everything audible is picky,picky, picky, picky, picky, picky.
It's very detail oriented.
Even the recording process,like most people, when they're in
front of a microphone, they'llswing their head back and forth.
(20:33):
It changes the sound quality acouple of inches on or off the mic
in position changes things.
So having the director there,both for performance as well as sound
quality, and we're evenmonitoring the Internet performance
and things like that, it makesa huge difference.
I don't think many authors dothis themselves.
It's too hard.
They have to hire somebody.
(20:53):
Yes, they usually do.
Some try it on their own.
There's folks right now whoare trying AI and I do think that
AI audio, whole other topicwill get good enough in the future,
but it is not good enoughright now.
And AI audiobooks don't sell.
I bet we use AI.
I'll tell you where we do useAI because the company that owns
us has a bunch of magazinesand we put out the articles as a
(21:19):
podcast feedback but it's readby AI and in that case people will
put up with it because it's,it's reading an article.
Right?
It's.
I totally agree.
We could, we couldn't affordto hire somebody to do that with
AI.
We can do it and it gets tensof thousands of downloads.
So I think that's a great use case.
It'll be good enough foraudiobooks eventually.
It's just not right.
But it doesn't, you know, theaudiobooks I listen to, I only listen
(21:43):
to them if I like the readerbecause it's just like podcasts.
Come for the content, stay forthe host.
If I go to an audiobook and Idon't like the reader, I just don't
like them.
I'm not listening to the book,I'll buy the book and read it.
That's exactly the number onething that audiobook listeners report.
It's always, always, alwaysabout the narrator.
(22:03):
And sometimes the author isthe reader and they're really good
and you want to hear itbecause they're celebrity.
Usually you want to hear thecelebrity read their own book, but
sometimes the author thatreads their own book aren't good.
Right.
And so you have that to dealwith too, right?
Yeah, yeah, we have to havethose conversations because it's
not always, they're not alwaysthe best person for the work and
but God, that's got to be atough one.
(22:26):
Well, very rarely, most peopleare pretty open or they actually
know and they're actuallylooking for permission to not have
to read their own book.
So we'll do a hybrid or as Ilovingly call it, a Tony Robbins
sandwich.
Because this is how TonyRobbins did all his audiobooks because
they're all 20 friggin hours long.
Right.
Where he did the beginning andthe end and a professional did the
middle.
And so we do those kinds ofbooks or you know, we do some not
(22:49):
exact voice matching, but sometypes of voice matching so that the
narrator has some of thequalities of the original author's
voice.
Now a lot of these audiobooksnow are getting more production,
almost like the old time radiowith multiple people and you know,
have you done any of those yet?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Sound design.
(23:09):
We have one beautiful book youcan find for free on YouTube called
Sight by Dr. Ming Wang thatturned into the book to the movie
site that came out, I thinkwas a year ago in 2024.
And it's about his journeygrowing up as a young boy in China
and then immigrating to the USbecoming a world renowned eye Surgeon.
And we used everything fromhim playing the Chinese violin in
(23:32):
the transitions totransforming news clips that were
video from the 90s and thingslike that, and seamlessly integrating
them into the book.
So that book is actually forfree on YouTube.
And like I said, it helped himgreenlight the movie, so that was
a real privilege.
Our record number of voices onan audiobook is 36 full cast.
(23:53):
Oh, my God.
That was the editing nightmare.
Our editors were like, we'rein it.
We're like, they view it as a challenge.
They get really into it.
Audiobook editors are adifferent breed.
You would have to be.
And I don't think peoplerealize either, when the reader is
reading this book.
You're having them.
They may do the same paragraphfive times.
I mean, you're having themreread it different.
(24:14):
Different ways, different, youknow, inflections and all.
It's not just read it once.
No, no, no, no, no.
I mean, if you're lucky.
Yeah.
But how long does it take to.
From start, from the firstrecording to edit it over at Audible,
what's the average length?
Oh, you mean like fullproduction timeline?
Yeah, we like to leave 90 daysfrom our first meeting with a client
(24:36):
till it's live.
On Audible, it takes abouttwice as long to record a segment
of audio as it the finished length.
So it's generally a two to oneor two and a half to one recording
time to finish product.
That's interesting becausewith our podcast, it's a time and
a half to two times forfinish, too.
Yeah.
Because you end up talking andthere's just.
(24:58):
This is fascinating.
Do you like it?
Do you like this work?
Yeah.
Oh, my God, yes.
But see, my interest in it hasalways been.
So I'm.
I'm actually.
I was a voice actor for funand came across this gap in the market.
And then one of the things I'mreally good at is pulling people
together and creatingcooperation and systems and processes
(25:19):
and.
And all of that.
So I'm.
I'm so grateful for thisbusiness every day and for my team
because they're the.
The audio professionals thatmake it all work, and I'm the one
that goes out.
And I'm always been more inthe leadership and entrepreneurial
and business side of things,and I knew that there was a need
for this, so I adore it.
(25:40):
And that's what ended upleading us to starting a whole new
line of business.
This last year, because I'vebeen in podcasting for so long, we
started transforming podcastcontent into books.
So tell me about how that works.
Now, this is actually where wedo use some AI tools.
They're bespoke.
They're in house ones.
My husband Robin, who's mybusiness partner, has been designing
(26:03):
software for 35 years.
He's a data architect.
That helps.
He's an artist with code.
He's an artist with code.
I keep joking.
I'm going to get him a beretwith little ones and zeros all over
it.
He doesn't like that idea.
We are able to bring in all ofthe data from a podcast through the
RSS feed and organize it andbe able to draw upon it to come up
(26:26):
with different book ideas, topreserve the speaker's voice in a
book situation, to create book briefs.
And then we're basically usinga combination of traditional ghost
writing and developmentalediting techniques with professionals
who know what they're doing incombination with being able to draw
on this beautiful body of workthat a podcast is.
(26:50):
And our.
Actually, our first book iscoming out September 24, 2025, and
it is the world's first bookfor mental health clinicians to be
able to better work with first responders.
So that is a cause.
That is something I'm veryhappy to be a part of.
I can see that for podcaststhat are very educational, you know,
(27:10):
ours might be a little hard todo that with because we're more of
a comedy.
Show that might not be that.
Probably wouldn't advise onthat, but some of your other.
The other shows on the HorseRadio Network might be beautiful,
kind of chicken soup for thesoul, types of stories that people
would love to have.
Yeah, I think so, too.
I think you're right about that.
This must be fun for you.
(27:30):
This is like combining your worlds.
Oh, yeah, it's a good time.
And your husband's world, actually.
Yes.
I feel a little bit like KingArthur sometime, where I'm like,
merlin, go and make me thissoftware that does this thing.
And he's like, yes, my lady.
And then, you know, a coupleof months later, we've got some brand
new tools, and it's great.
(27:51):
It's really fun.
So if you look back over thelast 10 years of the podcasting and
the books without namingnames, is there one that really stands
out to you that you went,okay, I did good work there.
We did good things.
We got a good response.
Is there.
Is there one that stands out?
Interestingly enough, it wasone of my very early audio books
(28:12):
in the first.
I think it was in the secondyear I was in business, and I think
it was because it was One ofthe first creative nonfiction projects
we ever did, and it soldextremely well.
Part of it's the genre.
It's the Vietnam War, and it'scalled Tiger Bravo's War, and it
was written by a retiredlieutenant colonel.
(28:32):
But he wrote it in such a waythat the characters are of the people
in his life that were there.
He really brought them to life.
And it was professionallynarrated, and the narrator, David
White, did such a brilliantand beautiful job bringing this story
to life that I remember justsitting in front of my computer,
kind of staring at it in awe,going, holy crap, this is.
(28:56):
We made this.
We made this.
And now, because of the topicand also because of how quality it
was, it really helped theauthor sell many, many, many, many
copies of that book.
It's still for sale.
It's still out there.
I just wrote it down.
It sounds fascinating.
Yeah, it's a really.
I'm very, very proud of that.
And that was one of the thingsthat early on in those first couple
(29:17):
of years of business, youquestion yourself a lot, and you
never really stop questioningyourself as an entrepreneur to one
extent or another.
Yeah, there's always impostersyndrome for all of us.
Right.
Or, you know, are we doing theright thing?
Are we going in the right direction?
But that was such a pivotalmoment for me, saying, we have arrived.
We're doing the right thing,and I want to do more of this.
(29:37):
And that affected people's lives.
People that were at Vietnam, people.
Families who.
Who had.
People who are at Vietnam in Vietnam.
I mean, I'm sure It did.
Yeah.
90, 95% of what we do is nonfiction.
So it's this whole notion forme that people's voices are getting
out into the world.
They're out making a difference.
They're out making an impact.
(29:57):
And, you know, I've said formany years that audiobooks and podcasts
or books in general are someof the lowest hanging fruit for people
to start to change their lives.
So I want to be part of morepeople getting their lives changed
without having to jump througha lot of hoops.
All right, before we get toyou being a digital nomad going around
the world, probably livinghalf the people that are listening
(30:19):
dream.
So before we get to that, onemore question.
This is always a harder onefor people to answer, and I ask it
all the time.
The last 10 years, with yourbusinesses and your entrepreneurial
ship, what has surprised youthe most?
Ooh.
I think that.
Okay, what has surprised methe most?
(30:39):
Okay, maybe a little cliche,but how much you can get done in
a year versus what you thinkyou have to get done in a day is
one of the most valuablethings that I've learned in this
process because like mostentrepreneurs, I'm fairly driven.
I want to get it done.
I want to get it done.
(31:00):
And that's an understatement,by the way.
I know, Tina.
I remember having a therapistyears ago.
I'm a therapist by training,and I'd like to walk my own talk.
So I was.
I was in the phase where I wasseeing a therapist, and she said,
you know, all you need to dotoday is what you got done today.
And I use that.
I still use it as a mantra.
I gave it to my children as amantra because it continually reminds
(31:23):
me that you can't necessarilyget everything you want done in a
day today, but the persistenceof it, it will get done and it'll
get done in the time it needsto get done.
So that's.
That's been one of the biggestsurprises for me.
The other big surprise for mewas that I ended up making the move
(31:43):
from being a solopreneur tobeing a CEO and having a team of
12.
And that was one of thebiggest identity shifts.
It's one of the biggest areasthat has been of a learning curve
for me is in leaning into thattype of leadership and learning from
my team, them learning fromme, learning how to trust people
(32:05):
at a whole new level.
It's been extraordinary, andI'm so grateful for my guys.
They're just amazing.
And not all of us that areentrepreneurs, solopreneurs end up
being good managers.
Like, I am not a good manager.
Oh, no, not at all.
I'm not a good manager.
(32:25):
I work well with people, butI'm not a good manager.
And so you were able toovercome that.
And you are a good manager.
And that's not always thecase, is the point I'm trying to
make.
So good for you, Tina.
Good for you.
Well, I have to say, it's avery specific management style.
If I had to be on top ofpeople all day, every day, I'd kill
them all.
But yes.
And on that note, we're goingto come back and talk about being
(32:46):
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This is your second round ofbeing a digital nomad.
And when you first did that,it wasn't a thing.
(33:54):
And now it's a thing.
And what we mean by that ispeople who work still work, but they
move around the world and livein places.
Sometimes a month or two orthree, depends on the person and
how they do it.
I know a couple in the podcastworld that do this and they all have
different styles and differentrates of moving.
But you did it before.
So tell us about the first time.
I was one of the first.
I actually was the firstperson I knew to work remotely and
(34:18):
to work completely digitally.
And that was in my businesscoaching practice that I started.
Now I can't even remember the year.
I think it was 2008, I believe.
And so it.
When we had the opportunity, Ihad this vision, this five year vision
plan that I did of living inCosta Rica.
And I picked Costa Rica partlyjust out of the ether and partially
(34:41):
because I knew enough about itto feel like I knew that it would
be good for me.
And so when my husband at thetime, my kid's dad, with his corporate
job had the opportunity to gomobile with his position, he went
back to his supervisor andsaid, well, how mobile can we go?
And they, and they were like,well, we don't, we don't care.
(35:03):
They hadn't really thoughtthrough it.
So I said, why don't we, whydon't we do Costa Rica?
We had been thinking aboutselling our house and moving anyway,
and so we did it.
It took, it was less than a year.
We sold our house, we sold 75%of our stuff, put the rest in a storage
unit.
Our kids were 7 and 9 and.
And we took off for a threemonth experiment in Playa del Coco,
(35:24):
Costa Rica, which is on thenorthern Pacific coast.
Well, that was before Airbnband stuff.
So you just had to find aplace the hard way to rent.
Right?
Well, it was interestingbecause I had been doing work for
my father for a while becauseI'm a bit of a misogynist.
Not misogynist, what's the word?
When you inflict harm upon yourself.
(35:44):
Masochist.
Masochist, not misogynist.
That's wrong.
Oh, my God.
Welcome to menopause.
Here we go.
The words just get confused.
So, yeah, so I had beenworking with my dad on one of his
businesses, and he had runsome retreats for massage therapists
down in Costa Rica, and I hadorganized them.
So I had some contacts downthere, and I reached out to them
(36:06):
and I said, do you know anyone?
And within 45 minutes, I had arecommendation for a school for the
kids.
I was connected to a guy whohad an apartment for rent, and I
had a car rental company thatpersonal contact.
So people are just kind ofawesome like that, in my experience.
And it was actually easier tomove into Costa Rica than it was
(36:26):
to finish selling our houseand get rid of our stuff in Buffalo,
New York.
How hard is it in visas and stuff?
Do you have a working visasand are they for a certain period
of time, depending on the country?
Well, most.
There was no such thing as adigital nomad visa at the time.
You were working off of atourist visa.
And depending on how you thinkabout it, there's some gray area
there.
Again, this was very early,early on.
(36:48):
So we were just there forthree months, which is as long as
we were allowed to be there as tourists.
And then we left.
But we.
We were very sad.
We knew by the end of thethree months, we didn't really want
to leave Costa Rica.
We were miserable.
Oh, my God.
We spent a miserable winter inboth Buffalo and in southern Florida.
(37:10):
And then we.
We left again for a differentplace in Costa Rica and went back
a second time.
What did the kids get out ofthat experience?
Well, it's interesting becausewe were so excited to have this experience
with them and have them trydifferent things.
And they have good memories,but they're almost 21 and 19 now,
(37:31):
and their memories areactually fairly fuzzy of that time
of life.
They remember enjoying themselves.
They remember seeing the volcano.
They remember doing somethings because we homeschooled them
the second year, where Ilearned I'm not cut out for homeschooling.
But we had a good time anyway,and it was a really good learning
experience for them.
(37:51):
They told me that one of thethings that they got out of that
was that they felt like whenthey went back to school and had
a more structured schoolsystem again, they were more interested
in following their interestsand in doing their personal best
rather than worrying about theexternal validation.
And I think that was a reallyimportant thing for them to internalize
(38:15):
through the whole thing.
So After Costa Rica, you came back.
I know you got a house and youlived a traditional life for a while
in Gainesville, and then youdecided to do this all over again.
It's probably easier this timebecause Internet was a big concern
back then.
Getting good Internet toactually work from now, that's a
lot easier.
Yeah, but we also weren'tusing as much bandwidth because most
(38:35):
things were audio only, andthey weren't doing a lot of video
and whatnot.
You weren't, you know, doing alot of video on social media or any
of those kinds of things.
I was still doingteleseminars, which were highly effective
at the time.
So that was audio only, too.
So, yeah, Internet this time around.
Do you want to know where we went?
Yeah.
Okay, so you sold your house,what, a year ago?
(38:58):
Well, we actually had beenrenting because I never went back
to owning because I was one ofthe things that taught me.
I was like, well, why bother?
All right, so.
All right, so where have you been?
So we left Florida at the endof April.
We spent a month in Austin,Texas, with a friend, and then we
spent two and a half months inGranada, Spain, which was a really
(39:19):
interesting experience becauseI had never lived in a walkable city
before, particularly a citywhere some of the primary structures
of the city were built in 900AD or earlier.
So the history of that cityand how it's grown up was really
fascinating.
Being part of the Andalusianculture and actually even doing improv
(39:41):
there was wild.
And then we spent two weeks.
I had.
Well, I thought I learned newenough Spanish because I got around
Costa Rica just fine.
But Andalusian Spanish is very different.
So, you know, I walk intoplace and say something and they'd
be like, huh?
I was like, oh, no.
(40:03):
But.
But I.
You get along fine.
People are great, and they're very.
They're very kind.
And so we got along okay.
And my husband doesn't speak asingle word of Spanish.
He has no talent for languages whatsoever.
Maine's pretty good aboutEnglish, though, aren't they?
Actually, it was far less thanI thought.
There were far fewer Englishspeakers than I.
(40:25):
Than I thought there would be,particularly in a city like Granada.
It's a small city.
Yeah.
Maybe the bigger cities would be.
Yeah, certainly Madrid,Barcelona, things like that.
You'd.
From what I'm hearing, there'sa lot.
Of British travel there, too,so German.
Oh.
Tons of folks from Germany.
Much many fewer from Britainbecause of Brexit.
(40:45):
It's a lot harder for folks inthe uk to travel in the rest of Europe
now because of Brexit.
So we heard about that a lot.
So were you on a visa therefor a tourist or is there a digital
nomad visa now for countries there.
Is a digital nomad visa, butwe were only there for, like I said,
we were going to be there fora month and then change over.
And we decided, decided tostay for a full two and a half months
(41:05):
because we wanted to be grounded.
And we visited a few otherplaces like Mallorca and Gibraltar,
Tarifa, and then we ended upgoing to the UK to stay with family
in Warwick for a couple ofweeks and then made our way back
to the US and drove all theway through New England out to where
we are now in Nova Scotia.
So how hard is it when you getto a location like Spain?
(41:28):
You're there to work alsobecause you got a job you have to
do, but you're also feelinglike a tourist.
For how long do you feel likea tourist?
And at what point does itstart to settle in that I'm living
here and I need to get somework done?
It's hard self control.
Oh my God.
It's a lot harder than beingon vacation.
It is way harder.
(41:49):
So first of all, you get thetime difference.
But fortunately Spain is avery late culture.
So being a six hours ahead ofthe east coast of the us, I was starting
work, you know, one o' clockin the afternoon, working until about
seven and then it was veryeasy to go out.
Everybody's out in theevening, walking, going to restaurants,
having tapas.
(42:10):
Well, they're not eating till9 o', clock, are they?
They're like late.
Some folks don't eat till that late.
Yeah, for sure.
So restaurants are open late.
Dinner isn't generally a bigheavy meal in Spain, lunch is heavier.
And then you get siesta, whichreally is a thing.
Did you do it?
But I, I really don't knowwhen Spaniards sleep.
I really don't.
I. I asked my Spanish friendsand they're like, ah, we take siesta,
(42:33):
it's fine.
So did you stay up later?
Did you notice you werestaying up later?
We did.
We would end up staying up,you know, here.
And Nova Scotia is the opposite.
Like it's a very early culture here.
People get out and get going early.
And so that was anotheradjustment when we got here.
So I find myself a little bitstill, even having been here for
(42:55):
a couple of months, just nowgetting into a regular routine.
And I've been in Nova Scotiafor three months so it's challenging
to get into a routine unlessyou're a very disciplined person.
And I have a lot of discipline.
But I also want my routines tofeel a certain way.
And it's going to be differentin one country versus another just
(43:19):
because of the culture, what'savailable, what's around.
Like I, I'm very interactivewith all of that.
I'm not one of those peoplewho gets up and runs at 5am regardless
of where I am in the world.
So I don't run.
I would also feel like I'm there.
I'm doing this for a reason.
And part of the reason is tosee and experience this place in
(43:40):
this culture and meet people.
So I would feel like, okay, ifI'm not out and about, I'm missing
out.
Right.
So there's that.
You still got to get your jobdone, but you also don't want to
miss out.
That's why you're there,that's why you're doing it.
Otherwise you stay home.
Exactly, exactly.
And I'm in the position ofprivilege where my company is robust
enough and mature enough thathonestly, I don't work a 40 hour
(44:02):
work week.
But I have a lot offlexibility in my schedule and I've
worked for that for the past20 years as an entrepreneur to have
that, that level of privilegeand ease.
But you know, if somethinggoes sideways, also the buck stops
here.
Is it a ton more expensivebecause you're wanting to eat out
all the time and all of that?
Oh, Spain is so cheap.
Really?
(44:22):
Yeah, that was.
That's also been a bit of aculture shock coming back not just
to North America, but also to Canada.
And I adore Canada.
My husband's Canadian.
There's.
This is a beautiful countryfrom coast to coast.
I've seen so much of Canada.
But I will say that I do misswhat things cost in Spain because
(44:43):
I would come down, we wereliving on the fifth floor, come down
to the first floor, walk nextdoor to the Italian cafe the Italian
family ran, sit out in theirpatio, order a cappuccino and a French
omelette with ham and cheeseand a beautiful tostada.
And my husband would do the same.
(45:05):
And we walk out of there forabout 20 bucks.
Yeah, it's now 40 years.
Oh my God.
Fresh orange juices everywhere.
The food feels and tastes veryalive in Europe.
Yeah.
And especially Spain too.
I, I could see that.
What do you think is thelength of time for you guys in any
(45:25):
location, if you were tocontinue doing this, would you look
at doing.
Would you say the ideal lengthis two to three months in each location,
or.
I know some people like to doit more.
They move every month becausethey want to move every month.
With Airbnb and Internet now,that's easier, right, than it used
to be.
Yep, that's true.
It's a lot less work to find aplace to stay and to do all that.
True.
(45:45):
Expensive, though.
It's not cheap.
So what would be your ideallength at any location if you were
going to continue doing it?
I really like to settle in forthree months at a location.
I tend to find that if youreally want to get the rhythm of
a place, you need to be therefor three months.
And if the end of threemonths, you don't want to leave,
still, it's worth looking atcoming back to or making it a repeating
(46:09):
place.
That being said, if you hit aplace and within the first month,
you're like, I know,absolutely not.
Then it's also nice to be ableto not be locked in that long.
So most of the digital nomadsI know, when they're doing, looking
at a new place to try, they'llliterally just book something for
(46:30):
a week or two weeks, and thenonce they get there, they'll come
off of Airbnb and rent localfor the rest of the time there, which
tends to be less expensive,better for the local economy and
so on.
But, you know, if you're goingto be in a place for longer than
a tourist visa allows for, youreally do need to apply for a digital
(46:50):
nomad visa.
Done.
And play by those rules.
I think it's really important.
And they allow you longer.
Right.
Even up to a year or something.
The digital nomad was.
Some places are a year, someplaces will extend two or three years.
There's a lot of controversyabout being a digital nomad right
now and the impact oneconomies and things like that.
But there's a lot to take intoconsideration with all of those things.
(47:11):
And one of the things that'svery easy to do is just get stuck
in the expat kind of community.
And I personally feel likeit's important to extend beyond that
and get involved in the.
In the local community,wherever you're at, and, you know,
be as integrative as possible,not hold yourself separate because
other, you know, then you'rejust a.
(47:33):
A colonist.
How.
How do your adult kids feelabout it?
Oh, they're all for it.
I mean, I miss them like fire.
This is actually, you know,they're both now adults.
My daughter's in University.
My son's working, and this isby far the most amount of time I've
ever spent away from them.
But we weren't able to kind ofget them over into Europe.
(47:55):
But they've both been here toNova Scotia.
My daughter's been back asecond time, and they're.
They're in favor of it.
And we're even kind of looking at.
I'm going to be gettingpermanent residency here, of course,
because I'm married to aCanadian, but my kids may be able
to get that as well.
They're still young enoughthat it's.
It's open to them.
So we're in conversation about that.
(48:16):
And, you know, it's funny,because you could live.
You could live four or fivehours from each other and still see
each other as much as you are now.
We moved down here to becloser to my brother, and we probably
see him once every quarter.
He lives like five miles from us.
So, you know, well, that's like.
You and I live in 45 minutes away.
And we can only ever see eachother at the conference twice a year.
We'd say let's get together.
(48:36):
And we just never did.
So this has been fascinating.
The whole conversation's beenabsolutely fat.
I've learned so much about youtoday, and I've known you for so
long.
I think that's.
It's great.
What's the website for Twin Flames?
Oh, it's Twin Flames Studios.
There's a lot of S's in theredot com.
And if anybody lives in theGainesville area and are into improv,
what's the name of that?
(48:56):
Are they still active, thatimprov group?
Oh, they're absolutely still active.
You can go tocommunityimprov.com which is a great
URL.
If you were to tell.
So if you were to givesomebody advice, they've heard this
and they decided they wantedto give improv a try, what do you
tell them to do?
Do.
What's your advice?
Go to most improv companiesand organizations.
(49:18):
I found this in Spain.
I found this in England.
I found it in Austin.
I found it everywhere thatI've been.
There's 99% of the time, atime of the week where you can go
in and drop in and do, like anintro kind of.
Kind of playtime.
No pressure.
Just go in and try it, and youjust get a flavor to see if you see
(49:40):
what it's like.
And it's not that deep.
It's like you're generally noton a big stage with a whole bunch
of People watching you andthings like that.
You're generally in a roomwith four to 10 people, maybe up
to 20 if it's, you know, likecommunity improv in Gainesville gets
some big bigger groups andit's basically like recess when you
(50:01):
were, when you were a kid witha little bit more structure.
It's just, it's really fun andyou meet some great people and there's
no pressure and no one's goingto tell you you, you were bad.
And it's, it's very freeing.
We were all bad at the beginning.
It's like when we first start,we were all bad.
But you get better.
It's like anything else.
(50:21):
The more comfortable you get,the better you get.
And that's the other beautifulthing about improv is, you know,
that your filter comes off toa certain extent.
Everyone's still respectful,but then some.
You know, the other day I waswith somebody and they were holding
back what they wanted to sayand, and our improv coach was like,
just say it, just say it, justsay it.
And it ended up being thefunniest thing of the night because
(50:44):
it was so out of pocket and itwas so silly and she was like, oh,
it's not the right thing tosay, but it was.
And those are usually theGolden Nuggets.
Right?
We're going back to that.
Thank you, Tina, appreciateyou joining me.
Oh, thank you.
And have fun in Nova Scotia.
Well, thanks.
I appreciate that.
Come and visit.
(51:05):
Well, I'll be back next weekwith Ashley, Lisa and a special first
time co host next Friday.
Jamie is doing her second weekof her Money Roberts clinic there
at the Flyover farm and she'llbe back a week from Monday.
So thank you for joining us today.
We really appreciate it.
Have a terrific weekend,everybody, and we'll see you back
here on Monday.
You are listening to the HorseRadio Network, part of the Equine
Network family.
What a beautiful day forHorses in the morning.
You are listening to thenumber one horse podcast in the world.
Here is your entertaining lookat the horse world and the people
(00:24):
in it.
I'm Glenn McGee coming to youfrom Ocala, Florida and you're listening
to Horses in the Morning onthe Horse Radio Network for Friday,
October 10th Episode 3794.
This episode is brought to youby Kentucky Performance Products.
Good Morning Horse World.
(00:45):
Well, as you know, Jamie and Iare off this week and Jen and I are
out visiting Ashley right nowin New Mexico for the big balloon
festival and Jamie is doingher Monte Roberts clinic.
So we have a special week ofshows for you.
Jamie did some one on onesthat you can tune into that are already
out.
Monday she had Nelda fromHorse and Hound and Wednesday she
had Olympian Tad Coffin.
(01:07):
Today I have a one on one for you.
I know some of you enjoy whenI bring on some of my podcasting
friends.
Today is one of those days.
So if you don't like listeningto anything but horses, then we'll
see you back here on Monday.
Tina Dietz is a longtimepodcaster that I met maybe 10 years
ago.
She's also a fellow improvactor and she runs a company that
(01:27):
voices and records audiobooks.
Plus she is a digital nomadworking while traveling the world.
We're going to talk about allof that stuff that she does in today's
episode right after we hearfrom Kentucky Performance Products.
Hang around.
I think you'll like it.
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Tina, it's so good to have youon my show after all these years
we've known each other.
I know.
I feel like every time we gettogether and talk, we should hit
(03:41):
the record button.
And finally we are.
I think it's got to be 10years ago I met you at Podfest.
Yeah, I think it was.
It was the very early years,second podfest.
And what's ironic is Tina usedto live very close to me and we would
never get together.
For some reason, I don't know,we never get together.
And then you moved closer.
I know.
And then you left.
Yeah.
So we have you on to talkabout a couple of things.
(04:03):
Tina and I have a lot in common.
One, podcasting, obviously,but two, Tina also is very active
in improv theater, so we havethat in common.
And then what I want to focusa lot of time toward the end of the
show on is you're a travelingworking nomad.
Yes.
And international travelingworking nomad, which is a thing now.
(04:26):
But this is the second timeyou've done it.
And I'm thinking the firsttime you did it, it wasn't a thing
that you were kind of in theearly days of it.
It was early.
Yeah, it was the very earlydays of it.
Yeah.
But we'll get into all of that.
So.
So you did you start.
What was your start in business?
Mine was in the.
In the financial world.
Where was your start?
Mine was my childhood.
(04:46):
My parents had a wood burningstove and fireplace business downstairs
in our house, and we lived upstairs.
So I was steeped like a teabagin this stuff from the time I was
three.
It was.
Yeah, it was.
That's where.
That's how I started.
And I'm an only child, so Ihad no choice but to have this business
is basically a younger sibling.
What'd you learn from that asa kid?
(05:07):
Oh, as a kid, you know, ittook me a long time to actually realize
what I got out of it becauseit wasn't until I tried to join the
workforce as a regularemployee that I realized that my
view of business was not thesame as everybody else or my view
of work wasn't the same aseverybody else.
So my inclination is always tosee a problem, you know, I'll solve
(05:30):
it, check out the hook whilethe DJ revolves it.
Like, I'm just going to like,go ahead and do it.
And then I would get fired forsolving problems.
And it took me years to kindof figure out, like, why don't they
appreciate me?
Why don't they understand Ihad no sense of chain of command
or any of those kinds of things.
When you're an entrepreneur,there's a problem, you fix it.
(05:53):
Yeah, exactly.
You know, I reorganized anentire office files for a major huge
dental practice, finished itvery proudly, showed them because
I was reducing the risktremendously because I found all
kinds of duplicate patientfiles and all kinds of stuff.
They called me in the office,said thank you, handed and walked
(06:14):
me out the door.
Don't fix anything.
It's not broke.
Don't fix it.
So how did you eventuallystart getting into podcasting then?
Oh, geez.
Well, podcasting startedbecause I was invited to be a guest
on some shows years ago.
I had a business coachingconsultancy and I've always loved
(06:35):
microphones.
I grew up singing, dancing,musical theater, you know, all, all
of the things that hasn't,that hasn't changed.
I'm.
There's no such thing as aformer theater kid, you know.
You know, that's true.
And so I was on a couple ofonline radio shows.
They weren't even being calledpodcasts at the time.
This is 2012, 2013, maybe even earlier.
(07:00):
And everybody that I was onwith said, why don't you have your
own show?
Why don't you have your own show?
And so in 2015, I decided tomake the leap into trying and doing
a podcast of my own.
Worked with an amazingcompany, they're still around, called
Cash Flow Podcasting andlaunched my first show and then fell
in love with it so much that Iended up talking with the owner and
(07:21):
asking if I could work withhim and to help grow his company.
And then I was basically hiscoach, his.
His podcast coach for a numberof years until both my venture and
his venture got big enoughthat we kind of parted ways on that.
But it's.
It was a wonderful experienceand something I'll always be grateful
for, for Ben Krueger, theowner, for letting me in on.
(07:43):
I want to get to what you'reDoing now, which is in relation to
audiobooks and things likethat, which is an area that a lot
of people are looking at rightnow too.
But before we do that, let'sgo back to improvisation.
Did that start in high school, college?
Where did your improv lovecome from?
No, I mean, I didn't get achance to do improv really in high
school and whatnot.
That was all musical theater.
Yeah.
And.
And I couldn't sing, so I was out.
(08:07):
You can hum.
Yes, I helped out, but I could.
I didn't do anything on stageat that point.
Yeah, exactly.
I don't know.
I think you might have made a good.
Hung like Henry Hill from theMusic Man.
I always wanted to play Tevyev in.
In.
Oh, yeah.
Fiddler on the Roof.
Fiddler on the Roof, yeah.
But I can't sing, so.
But I thought I loved.
I know all the words to allthe Tevyev songs in Fiddler on the
(08:29):
Roof, so.
Oh, don't even get me started.
Yeah, that's one of those things.
But I just always was doing that.
Anything involving amicrophone is something I'm in favor
of.
I love karaoke.
I'm the person that willorganize karaoke outings at conferences
and things like that.
I've seen you sing.
Yeah.
(08:49):
And very well too.
Thank you.
I appreciate that kind of stuff.
So I just.
I fell back into improvseveral years ago when in.
In Gainesville, Florida, whereI was living.
There's a.
A group there for a long timecalled the Gainesville Improv Guild.
And they started doingcommunity improv on Tuesday nights.
And I walked in and I never left.
(09:09):
So I spent about three yearsplaying in improv, mostly short form
improv.
For the improv nerds outthere, short form and long form are
two very different things andhelping to grow the community.
And I also did some standupwhile I was there.
So now that I'm.
How hard is stand up?
Far away in Nova Scotia.
One of the things that wascrucial to me and where I was living
(09:31):
is I needed to have access toan improv community.
And that actually figured intomy digital nomading in choosing locations.
All right, we'll get to that.
I've got to keep that in mind.
How hard is stand up comparedto improv?
It's got to be so much harder.
It's so much harder.
Yeah.
I mean.
Oh my God.
Oh, yeah.
Because you got to know those jokes.
You can't improv.
(09:52):
You know, you have to bepresent and like, it's very much
building on each other andBuilding in.
In the sense of belonging.
Listening is mathematical.
Yeah.
And the timing and justgetting the.
The punchline right.
And just.
It's memorization.
Right.
I mean, it's just a lot of it.
A lot of it.
But also having to be presentto the audience, but also having
(10:13):
to remember what you'retalking about.
But also like one worcompletely change a joke.
Also, there's a milliondifferent kinds of.
Style of stand up and pacingand just the whole thing.
Yeah, yeah, it's wild.
It's really fun.
It's really good stuff.
But, boy, did that give me abigger appreciation for people who
are really, really good at it.
(10:34):
You had to be a lot morenervous for that than you ever were
for improv.
You know, it's funny, Iactually have a harder time performing
improv than I have performinganything else because it's not rehearsed.
Oh, that's interesting becauseusually improv performers are the
other way.
Little inner perfectionist inme that sometimes I find a little
hard on stage in front of anaudience to let go and be really
(10:57):
in the moment, the same waythat I am in rehearsal.
So I've actually just beenaccepted into an improv team here
in Halifax through thespontaneity improv company called
the Hot Moms.
I fit right in and I'm reallylooking forward to playing with them
and, you know, doing a bitmore muscle on the actual performance
side of things.
When I owned the actingcompany, which is right over my shoulder
(11:19):
here, there's a picture of theacting company.
We did the Medieval feast.
We did 450 shows over 10years, and I got nervous for every
single one.
I played the king, so I.
And I was kind of running theshow too.
It was a dinner theater.
So, you know, I knew when thefood was going to be late and we'd
have to vamp and, you know,all of that I was in.
I was directing as the king,which worked perfectly because, you
know, with our company, if theking said do something, you did it,
(11:41):
or you.
You got fired because therewas a reason I was telling them to
do something.
And we had a cast about 20that stayed with almost the whole
10 years.
We had the same people and Istill got nervous.
But as soon as you walked out,that was it.
As soon as I walked out and Iwas on, I wasn't nervous.
The rest of the time, you just go.
You just.
And especially when you'rewith a cast that's been together
(12:02):
a long time, you just knoweach other.
It's like the.
Whose line is it.
Anyway, guys, you know, theyknow each other so well.
They know what the other person.
I knew what my jester wasgoing to do when I looked at him,
you know, I knew where he wasgoing to go.
Even though it was all improv kind.
Of chemistry, just can'tsubstitute that for anything else.
It's brilliant.
My jester's still alive.
He's older now, and his wifejust passed away, but he's still
(12:24):
doing Renaissance fairs.
This is 40 years later andstill as a jester, and we did 450
shows together.
We did every one of thoseshows together.
Other cast would come and godepending on the size they would
hire and things, but we didthem all.
And I'll tell you what, I'venever had so much fun with one guy,
and he was.
I mean, he was brilliant.
(12:44):
He's a brilliant improv performer.
Have you ever thought about,like, if you.
If you tried it again now, ifit would still work?
Oh, it'd be so damn much easier.
I'll tell you why.
It's because we were in thedays of pre Internet, so we were
selling tickets to open thepublic shows at Stokesley Castle
and reading by doing radio andnewspaper, and they would have to
send checks.
(13:05):
I mean, there was no Internet.
We.
We were making your owncostumes because you couldn't find
any place to buy them.
I mean, it was just.
Can you imagine how mucheasier it would all be now with,
you know.
I think so much easier to.
To set up and potentiallyharder to actually sell the tickets
because there's so many morecompeting things going on that.
But you certainly could getthe word out with social media a
(13:26):
lot easier than you could inthe past.
And look at you.
Totally could.
And you know, Renaissancefairs, I always thought they were
going to die off and because,you know, I was at the start of Pennsylvania.
Oh, my God, they're so busynow, you can't even get into the
places.
It's nuts.
Glenn, if you ever wanted tostart it back up again, I'm sure
you could.
I think that's too much workfor me at my age.
What do you.
(13:47):
I, you know, I preach.
Everybody should do improv.
Every, Every podcaster, everyperson that runs a business, every
salesperson should do improv.
My success in sales, mysuccess as an entrepreneur, my success,
every success I've had, Icredit improv theater for.
Do you feel the same way?
(14:08):
Oh, of course.
Of course.
Yeah.
The.
So building on what somebodyelse is saying, taking the premise
to be true, building a worldtogether, being able to create that
Sense of belonging, notdenying somebody else's truth.
The listening that comes intoplay, like it's not about being funny,
(14:28):
it's about being present andbeing in relationship with whoever's
there in front of you.
That's, I mean, that's what Ilove more than anything is that it
creates such a beautiful spaceof belonging.
I mean, we in, in Gainesville,we had a very, very inclusive group
of people.
And I mean that in thebroadest sense of the word.
(14:50):
And because the communityimprov was and is still free, people
would come in and they wouldfeel okay to try something.
And I, we would just hear overand over, even after just one 2 hour
hangout session together, wow,this felt really good.
You know, I felt really welcome.
I felt really open.
I didn't feel pressured.
(15:10):
It's like I learned something.
And even if they never cameback again, we would usually hear
that, that kind of feedback.
And, and this is, you know,for all kinds of differently abled
folks as well.
So it was, it was reallygratifying to, to see that and be
a part of it.
And, you know, I think it.
And everywhere I've beentraveling this year, I've experienced
(15:32):
improv.
So it holds true from countryto country, which is interesting.
I think it's made.
I'm going to brag a little.
I think I'm a pretty good interviewer.
I mean, we've done, We'veinterviewed over 7,000 people on
horses in the morning.
I think you got proof forthat, Glenn.
Yeah, so, but I think it'simprov that made me a better interviewer
(15:53):
for sure.
And I think people who haven'thad that kind of theater experience
are missing out a little bit.
Yeah, you can be good at, be agood interviewer without it.
I just think it definitelyhelps you be more aware and what
else it helps you with.
And this is the thing I hatewhen I listen to podcasts is they're
interviewing somebody and the,the guest throws out the Golden Nugget,
(16:16):
that, that thing that as alistener you're going, God, ask about
that now you want to just know more.
And they go right by itbecause they want to get to their
next question.
And they completely missed theGolden Nugget.
The thing that would have madethat episode sing that, that thing
they threw out that was out ofleft field and they didn't want to
follow it.
And as a listener, I'm going, why?
That's the only thing I caredabout in this 20 minutes.
(16:38):
You know, I think that, that it.
Improv teaches you to Followthat golden nugget.
Yeah, that's true.
Just keep, keep after it andkeep growing it and seeing how far
you can take it.
And if it doesn't go anywhere,you edit it out, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Although they usually gosomewhere and it's the best piece
of the whole.
It's definitely the best piece.
And on the opposite side ofthings, a guest on a podcast who
(17:01):
comes so attached to thematerial that they have to cover.
I mean, I rememberinterviewing some.
Honestly, it's really bignames, big name authors, big name
speakers.
Could not get them off theirdamn tracks.
Their marketing to have aninteresting conversation because
all they want is the damnsound bites to kind of push their
whatever it is.
I'm so boring.
(17:23):
So listeners are listening tothis now.
Wonder why we don't have bigname clinicians on and things.
Sometimes it's because that'swhat we get.
We get the marketing messageand that's the whole interview.
And for Jamie and I, that'sjust boring, you know, it's just
boring.
We want to have aconversation, you know, like we're
having today.
That's what we want to have.
Yeah, those folks are betterto have a sponsors.
Yeah, let's face it.
That's right.
Yeah.
We're going to take a quickbreak because I do have sponsors,
(17:45):
Tina.
So we're going to take a break.
We're going to take a quickbreak, we're going to come back and
we're going to talk about whatyou're doing now.
And then I want to end withyour Nomad bad life because I, if
I was younger I would so dowhat you're doing right now.
But.
And if I didn't have horses inthe yard.
But let's, let's come back ina minute.
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Vetmed so, Tina, you have acompany called Twin Flames.
What's Twin Flames do?
Twin Flames Studios.
Yeah.
We produce two things.
We are the premier provider inthe world of remote recorded and
(19:10):
produced audiobooks.
That is what we're known for.
Does that mean somebody wrotea book and you're doing the audio
version?
We're doing the audiobook.
Yeah, we're doing theaudiobook and we produce it remotely.
You don't have to go into astudio, you don't go into a booth.
Nope.
But you do get fully producedand directed with another human being
the full time.
You don't need any major techor anything like that.
(19:31):
I started producing audiobooksin 2015 and very and focused on nonfiction
because there were really nooptions for nonfiction authors at
that time to get theiraudiobooks done with support and
that were independent authorsand things like that.
And we got tired of trying towork with studios and set things
(19:52):
up and it got very cost prohibitive.
So we said, well, if we canpodcast and we can do these other
things, why can't we do remoteaudiobook production?
So I worked with my soundengineer, actually.
Same same dude still on myteam all these years later, and we
created this process.
And that's so 500 audiobookslater, that's.
(20:12):
That's where we are.
So that's our primary breadand butter.
And I know people realize howthey think that sounds easy to do.
But audible is very pickyabout sound quality.
Everything audible is picky,picky, picky, picky, picky, picky.
It's very detail oriented.
Even the recording process,like most people, when they're in
front of a microphone, they'llswing their head back and forth.
(20:33):
It changes the sound quality acouple of inches on or off the mic
in position changes things.
So having the director there,both for performance as well as sound
quality, and we're evenmonitoring the Internet performance
and things like that, it makesa huge difference.
I don't think many authors dothis themselves.
It's too hard.
They have to hire somebody.
(20:53):
Yes, they usually do.
Some try it on their own.
There's folks right now whoare trying AI and I do think that
AI audio, whole other topicwill get good enough in the future,
but it is not good enoughright now.
And AI audiobooks don't sell.
I bet we use AI.
I'll tell you where we do useAI because the company that owns
us has a bunch of magazinesand we put out the articles as a
(21:19):
podcast feedback but it's readby AI and in that case people will
put up with it because it's,it's reading an article.
Right?
It's.
I totally agree.
We could, we couldn't affordto hire somebody to do that with
AI.
We can do it and it gets tensof thousands of downloads.
So I think that's a great use case.
It'll be good enough foraudiobooks eventually.
It's just not right.
But it doesn't, you know, theaudiobooks I listen to, I only listen
(21:43):
to them if I like the readerbecause it's just like podcasts.
Come for the content, stay forthe host.
If I go to an audiobook and Idon't like the reader, I just don't
like them.
I'm not listening to the book,I'll buy the book and read it.
That's exactly the number onething that audiobook listeners report.
It's always, always, alwaysabout the narrator.
(22:03):
And sometimes the author isthe reader and they're really good
and you want to hear itbecause they're celebrity.
Usually you want to hear thecelebrity read their own book, but
sometimes the author thatreads their own book aren't good.
Right.
And so you have that to dealwith too, right?
Yeah, yeah, we have to havethose conversations because it's
not always, they're not alwaysthe best person for the work and
but God, that's got to be atough one.
(22:26):
Well, very rarely, most peopleare pretty open or they actually
know and they're actuallylooking for permission to not have
to read their own book.
So we'll do a hybrid or as Ilovingly call it, a Tony Robbins
sandwich.
Because this is how TonyRobbins did all his audiobooks because
they're all 20 friggin hours long.
Right.
Where he did the beginning andthe end and a professional did the
middle.
And so we do those kinds ofbooks or you know, we do some not
(22:49):
exact voice matching, but sometypes of voice matching so that the
narrator has some of thequalities of the original author's
voice.
Now a lot of these audiobooksnow are getting more production,
almost like the old time radiowith multiple people and you know,
have you done any of those yet?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Sound design.
(23:09):
We have one beautiful book youcan find for free on YouTube called
Sight by Dr. Ming Wang thatturned into the book to the movie
site that came out, I thinkwas a year ago in 2024.
And it's about his journeygrowing up as a young boy in China
and then immigrating to the USbecoming a world renowned eye Surgeon.
And we used everything fromhim playing the Chinese violin in
(23:32):
the transitions totransforming news clips that were
video from the 90s and thingslike that, and seamlessly integrating
them into the book.
So that book is actually forfree on YouTube.
And like I said, it helped himgreenlight the movie, so that was
a real privilege.
Our record number of voices onan audiobook is 36 full cast.
(23:53):
Oh, my God.
That was the editing nightmare.
Our editors were like, we'rein it.
We're like, they view it as a challenge.
They get really into it.
Audiobook editors are adifferent breed.
You would have to be.
And I don't think peoplerealize either, when the reader is
reading this book.
You're having them.
They may do the same paragraphfive times.
I mean, you're having themreread it different.
(24:14):
Different ways, different, youknow, inflections and all.
It's not just read it once.
No, no, no, no, no.
I mean, if you're lucky.
Yeah.
But how long does it take to.
From start, from the firstrecording to edit it over at Audible,
what's the average length?
Oh, you mean like fullproduction timeline?
Yeah, we like to leave 90 daysfrom our first meeting with a client
(24:36):
till it's live.
On Audible, it takes abouttwice as long to record a segment
of audio as it the finished length.
So it's generally a two to oneor two and a half to one recording
time to finish product.
That's interesting becausewith our podcast, it's a time and
a half to two times forfinish, too.
Yeah.
Because you end up talking andthere's just.
(24:58):
This is fascinating.
Do you like it?
Do you like this work?
Yeah.
Oh, my God, yes.
But see, my interest in it hasalways been.
So I'm.
I'm actually.
I was a voice actor for funand came across this gap in the market.
And then one of the things I'mreally good at is pulling people
together and creatingcooperation and systems and processes
(25:19):
and.
And all of that.
So I'm.
I'm so grateful for thisbusiness every day and for my team
because they're the.
The audio professionals thatmake it all work, and I'm the one
that goes out.
And I'm always been more inthe leadership and entrepreneurial
and business side of things,and I knew that there was a need
for this, so I adore it.
(25:40):
And that's what ended upleading us to starting a whole new
line of business.
This last year, because I'vebeen in podcasting for so long, we
started transforming podcastcontent into books.
So tell me about how that works.
Now, this is actually where wedo use some AI tools.
They're bespoke.
They're in house ones.
My husband Robin, who's mybusiness partner, has been designing
(26:03):
software for 35 years.
He's a data architect.
That helps.
He's an artist with code.
He's an artist with code.
I keep joking.
I'm going to get him a beretwith little ones and zeros all over
it.
He doesn't like that idea.
We are able to bring in all ofthe data from a podcast through the
RSS feed and organize it andbe able to draw upon it to come up
(26:26):
with different book ideas, topreserve the speaker's voice in a
book situation, to create book briefs.
And then we're basically usinga combination of traditional ghost
writing and developmentalediting techniques with professionals
who know what they're doing incombination with being able to draw
on this beautiful body of workthat a podcast is.
(26:50):
And our.
Actually, our first book iscoming out September 24, 2025, and
it is the world's first bookfor mental health clinicians to be
able to better work with first responders.
So that is a cause.
That is something I'm veryhappy to be a part of.
I can see that for podcaststhat are very educational, you know,
(27:10):
ours might be a little hard todo that with because we're more of
a comedy.
Show that might not be that.
Probably wouldn't advise onthat, but some of your other.
The other shows on the HorseRadio Network might be beautiful,
kind of chicken soup for thesoul, types of stories that people
would love to have.
Yeah, I think so, too.
I think you're right about that.
This must be fun for you.
(27:30):
This is like combining your worlds.
Oh, yeah, it's a good time.
And your husband's world, actually.
Yes.
I feel a little bit like KingArthur sometime, where I'm like,
merlin, go and make me thissoftware that does this thing.
And he's like, yes, my lady.
And then, you know, a coupleof months later, we've got some brand
new tools, and it's great.
(27:51):
It's really fun.
So if you look back over thelast 10 years of the podcasting and
the books without namingnames, is there one that really stands
out to you that you went,okay, I did good work there.
We did good things.
We got a good response.
Is there.
Is there one that stands out?
Interestingly enough, it wasone of my very early audio books
(28:12):
in the first.
I think it was in the secondyear I was in business, and I think
it was because it was One ofthe first creative nonfiction projects
we ever did, and it soldextremely well.
Part of it's the genre.
It's the Vietnam War, and it'scalled Tiger Bravo's War, and it
was written by a retiredlieutenant colonel.
(28:32):
But he wrote it in such a waythat the characters are of the people
in his life that were there.
He really brought them to life.
And it was professionallynarrated, and the narrator, David
White, did such a brilliantand beautiful job bringing this story
to life that I remember justsitting in front of my computer,
kind of staring at it in awe,going, holy crap, this is.
(28:56):
We made this.
We made this.
And now, because of the topicand also because of how quality it
was, it really helped theauthor sell many, many, many, many
copies of that book.
It's still for sale.
It's still out there.
I just wrote it down.
It sounds fascinating.
Yeah, it's a really.
I'm very, very proud of that.
And that was one of the thingsthat early on in those first couple
(29:17):
of years of business, youquestion yourself a lot, and you
never really stop questioningyourself as an entrepreneur to one
extent or another.
Yeah, there's always impostersyndrome for all of us.
Right.
Or, you know, are we doing theright thing?
Are we going in the right direction?
But that was such a pivotalmoment for me, saying, we have arrived.
We're doing the right thing,and I want to do more of this.
(29:37):
And that affected people's lives.
People that were at Vietnam, people.
Families who.
Who had.
People who are at Vietnam in Vietnam.
I mean, I'm sure It did.
Yeah.
90, 95% of what we do is nonfiction.
So it's this whole notion forme that people's voices are getting
out into the world.
They're out making a difference.
They're out making an impact.
(29:57):
And, you know, I've said formany years that audiobooks and podcasts
or books in general are someof the lowest hanging fruit for people
to start to change their lives.
So I want to be part of morepeople getting their lives changed
without having to jump througha lot of hoops.
All right, before we get toyou being a digital nomad going around
the world, probably livinghalf the people that are listening
(30:19):
dream.
So before we get to that, onemore question.
This is always a harder onefor people to answer, and I ask it
all the time.
The last 10 years, with yourbusinesses and your entrepreneurial
ship, what has surprised youthe most?
Ooh.
I think that.
Okay, what has surprised methe most?
(30:39):
Okay, maybe a little cliche,but how much you can get done in
a year versus what you thinkyou have to get done in a day is
one of the most valuablethings that I've learned in this
process because like mostentrepreneurs, I'm fairly driven.
I want to get it done.
I want to get it done.
(31:00):
And that's an understatement,by the way.
I know, Tina.
I remember having a therapistyears ago.
I'm a therapist by training,and I'd like to walk my own talk.
So I was.
I was in the phase where I wasseeing a therapist, and she said,
you know, all you need to dotoday is what you got done today.
And I use that.
I still use it as a mantra.
I gave it to my children as amantra because it continually reminds
(31:23):
me that you can't necessarilyget everything you want done in a
day today, but the persistenceof it, it will get done and it'll
get done in the time it needsto get done.
So that's.
That's been one of the biggestsurprises for me.
The other big surprise for mewas that I ended up making the move
(31:43):
from being a solopreneur tobeing a CEO and having a team of
12.
And that was one of thebiggest identity shifts.
It's one of the biggest areasthat has been of a learning curve
for me is in leaning into thattype of leadership and learning from
my team, them learning fromme, learning how to trust people
(32:05):
at a whole new level.
It's been extraordinary, andI'm so grateful for my guys.
They're just amazing.
And not all of us that areentrepreneurs, solopreneurs end up
being good managers.
Like, I am not a good manager.
Oh, no, not at all.
I'm not a good manager.
(32:25):
I work well with people, butI'm not a good manager.
And so you were able toovercome that.
And you are a good manager.
And that's not always thecase, is the point I'm trying to
make.
So good for you, Tina.
Good for you.
Well, I have to say, it's avery specific management style.
If I had to be on top ofpeople all day, every day, I'd kill
them all.
But yes.
And on that note, we're goingto come back and talk about being
(32:46):
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This is your second round ofbeing a digital nomad.
And when you first did that,it wasn't a thing.
(33:54):
And now it's a thing.
And what we mean by that ispeople who work still work, but they
move around the world and livein places.
Sometimes a month or two orthree, depends on the person and
how they do it.
I know a couple in the podcastworld that do this and they all have
different styles and differentrates of moving.
But you did it before.
So tell us about the first time.
I was one of the first.
I actually was the firstperson I knew to work remotely and
(34:18):
to work completely digitally.
And that was in my businesscoaching practice that I started.
Now I can't even remember the year.
I think it was 2008, I believe.
And so it.
When we had the opportunity, Ihad this vision, this five year vision
plan that I did of living inCosta Rica.
And I picked Costa Rica partlyjust out of the ether and partially
(34:41):
because I knew enough about itto feel like I knew that it would
be good for me.
And so when my husband at thetime, my kid's dad, with his corporate
job had the opportunity to gomobile with his position, he went
back to his supervisor andsaid, well, how mobile can we go?
And they, and they were like,well, we don't, we don't care.
(35:03):
They hadn't really thoughtthrough it.
So I said, why don't we, whydon't we do Costa Rica?
We had been thinking aboutselling our house and moving anyway,
and so we did it.
It took, it was less than a year.
We sold our house, we sold 75%of our stuff, put the rest in a storage
unit.
Our kids were 7 and 9 and.
And we took off for a threemonth experiment in Playa del Coco,
(35:24):
Costa Rica, which is on thenorthern Pacific coast.
Well, that was before Airbnband stuff.
So you just had to find aplace the hard way to rent.
Right?
Well, it was interestingbecause I had been doing work for
my father for a while becauseI'm a bit of a misogynist.
Not misogynist, what's the word?
When you inflict harm upon yourself.
(35:44):
Masochist.
Masochist, not misogynist.
That's wrong.
Oh, my God.
Welcome to menopause.
Here we go.
The words just get confused.
So, yeah, so I had beenworking with my dad on one of his
businesses, and he had runsome retreats for massage therapists
down in Costa Rica, and I hadorganized them.
So I had some contacts downthere, and I reached out to them
(36:06):
and I said, do you know anyone?
And within 45 minutes, I had arecommendation for a school for the
kids.
I was connected to a guy whohad an apartment for rent, and I
had a car rental company thatpersonal contact.
So people are just kind ofawesome like that, in my experience.
And it was actually easier tomove into Costa Rica than it was
(36:26):
to finish selling our houseand get rid of our stuff in Buffalo,
New York.
How hard is it in visas and stuff?
Do you have a working visasand are they for a certain period
of time, depending on the country?
Well, most.
There was no such thing as adigital nomad visa at the time.
You were working off of atourist visa.
And depending on how you thinkabout it, there's some gray area
there.
Again, this was very early,early on.
(36:48):
So we were just there forthree months, which is as long as
we were allowed to be there as tourists.
And then we left.
But we.
We were very sad.
We knew by the end of thethree months, we didn't really want
to leave Costa Rica.
We were miserable.
Oh, my God.
We spent a miserable winter inboth Buffalo and in southern Florida.
(37:10):
And then we.
We left again for a differentplace in Costa Rica and went back
a second time.
What did the kids get out ofthat experience?
Well, it's interesting becausewe were so excited to have this experience
with them and have them trydifferent things.
And they have good memories,but they're almost 21 and 19 now,
(37:31):
and their memories areactually fairly fuzzy of that time
of life.
They remember enjoying themselves.
They remember seeing the volcano.
They remember doing somethings because we homeschooled them
the second year, where Ilearned I'm not cut out for homeschooling.
But we had a good time anyway,and it was a really good learning
experience for them.
(37:51):
They told me that one of thethings that they got out of that
was that they felt like whenthey went back to school and had
a more structured schoolsystem again, they were more interested
in following their interestsand in doing their personal best
rather than worrying about theexternal validation.
And I think that was a reallyimportant thing for them to internalize
(38:15):
through the whole thing.
So After Costa Rica, you came back.
I know you got a house and youlived a traditional life for a while
in Gainesville, and then youdecided to do this all over again.
It's probably easier this timebecause Internet was a big concern
back then.
Getting good Internet toactually work from now, that's a
lot easier.
Yeah, but we also weren'tusing as much bandwidth because most
(38:35):
things were audio only, andthey weren't doing a lot of video
and whatnot.
You weren't, you know, doing alot of video on social media or any
of those kinds of things.
I was still doingteleseminars, which were highly effective
at the time.
So that was audio only, too.
So, yeah, Internet this time around.
Do you want to know where we went?
Yeah.
Okay, so you sold your house,what, a year ago?
(38:58):
Well, we actually had beenrenting because I never went back
to owning because I was one ofthe things that taught me.
I was like, well, why bother?
All right, so.
All right, so where have you been?
So we left Florida at the endof April.
We spent a month in Austin,Texas, with a friend, and then we
spent two and a half months inGranada, Spain, which was a really
(39:19):
interesting experience becauseI had never lived in a walkable city
before, particularly a citywhere some of the primary structures
of the city were built in 900AD or earlier.
So the history of that cityand how it's grown up was really
fascinating.
Being part of the Andalusianculture and actually even doing improv
(39:41):
there was wild.
And then we spent two weeks.
I had.
Well, I thought I learned newenough Spanish because I got around
Costa Rica just fine.
But Andalusian Spanish is very different.
So, you know, I walk intoplace and say something and they'd
be like, huh?
I was like, oh, no.
(40:03):
But.
But I.
You get along fine.
People are great, and they're very.
They're very kind.
And so we got along okay.
And my husband doesn't speak asingle word of Spanish.
He has no talent for languages whatsoever.
Maine's pretty good aboutEnglish, though, aren't they?
Actually, it was far less thanI thought.
There were far fewer Englishspeakers than I.
(40:25):
Than I thought there would be,particularly in a city like Granada.
It's a small city.
Yeah.
Maybe the bigger cities would be.
Yeah, certainly Madrid,Barcelona, things like that.
You'd.
From what I'm hearing, there'sa lot.
Of British travel there, too,so German.
Oh.
Tons of folks from Germany.
Much many fewer from Britainbecause of Brexit.
(40:45):
It's a lot harder for folks inthe uk to travel in the rest of Europe
now because of Brexit.
So we heard about that a lot.
So were you on a visa therefor a tourist or is there a digital
nomad visa now for countries there.
Is a digital nomad visa, butwe were only there for, like I said,
we were going to be there fora month and then change over.
And we decided, decided tostay for a full two and a half months
(41:05):
because we wanted to be grounded.
And we visited a few otherplaces like Mallorca and Gibraltar,
Tarifa, and then we ended upgoing to the UK to stay with family
in Warwick for a couple ofweeks and then made our way back
to the US and drove all theway through New England out to where
we are now in Nova Scotia.
So how hard is it when you getto a location like Spain?
(41:28):
You're there to work alsobecause you got a job you have to
do, but you're also feelinglike a tourist.
For how long do you feel likea tourist?
And at what point does itstart to settle in that I'm living
here and I need to get somework done?
It's hard self control.
Oh my God.
It's a lot harder than beingon vacation.
It is way harder.
(41:49):
So first of all, you get thetime difference.
But fortunately Spain is avery late culture.
So being a six hours ahead ofthe east coast of the us, I was starting
work, you know, one o' clockin the afternoon, working until about
seven and then it was veryeasy to go out.
Everybody's out in theevening, walking, going to restaurants,
having tapas.
(42:10):
Well, they're not eating till9 o', clock, are they?
They're like late.
Some folks don't eat till that late.
Yeah, for sure.
So restaurants are open late.
Dinner isn't generally a bigheavy meal in Spain, lunch is heavier.
And then you get siesta, whichreally is a thing.
Did you do it?
But I, I really don't knowwhen Spaniards sleep.
I really don't.
I. I asked my Spanish friendsand they're like, ah, we take siesta,
(42:33):
it's fine.
So did you stay up later?
Did you notice you werestaying up later?
We did.
We would end up staying up,you know, here.
And Nova Scotia is the opposite.
Like it's a very early culture here.
People get out and get going early.
And so that was anotheradjustment when we got here.
So I find myself a little bitstill, even having been here for
(42:55):
a couple of months, just nowgetting into a regular routine.
And I've been in Nova Scotiafor three months so it's challenging
to get into a routine unlessyou're a very disciplined person.
And I have a lot of discipline.
But I also want my routines tofeel a certain way.
And it's going to be differentin one country versus another just
(43:19):
because of the culture, what'savailable, what's around.
Like I, I'm very interactivewith all of that.
I'm not one of those peoplewho gets up and runs at 5am regardless
of where I am in the world.
So I don't run.
I would also feel like I'm there.
I'm doing this for a reason.
And part of the reason is tosee and experience this place in
(43:40):
this culture and meet people.
So I would feel like, okay, ifI'm not out and about, I'm missing
out.
Right.
So there's that.
You still got to get your jobdone, but you also don't want to
miss out.
That's why you're there,that's why you're doing it.
Otherwise you stay home.
Exactly, exactly.
And I'm in the position ofprivilege where my company is robust
enough and mature enough thathonestly, I don't work a 40 hour
(44:02):
work week.
But I have a lot offlexibility in my schedule and I've
worked for that for the past20 years as an entrepreneur to have
that, that level of privilegeand ease.
But you know, if somethinggoes sideways, also the buck stops
here.
Is it a ton more expensivebecause you're wanting to eat out
all the time and all of that?
Oh, Spain is so cheap.
Really?
(44:22):
Yeah, that was.
That's also been a bit of aculture shock coming back not just
to North America, but also to Canada.
And I adore Canada.
My husband's Canadian.
There's.
This is a beautiful countryfrom coast to coast.
I've seen so much of Canada.
But I will say that I do misswhat things cost in Spain because
(44:43):
I would come down, we wereliving on the fifth floor, come down
to the first floor, walk nextdoor to the Italian cafe the Italian
family ran, sit out in theirpatio, order a cappuccino and a French
omelette with ham and cheeseand a beautiful tostada.
And my husband would do the same.
(45:05):
And we walk out of there forabout 20 bucks.
Yeah, it's now 40 years.
Oh my God.
Fresh orange juices everywhere.
The food feels and tastes veryalive in Europe.
Yeah.
And especially Spain too.
I, I could see that.
What do you think is thelength of time for you guys in any
(45:25):
location, if you were tocontinue doing this, would you look
at doing.
Would you say the ideal lengthis two to three months in each location,
or.
I know some people like to doit more.
They move every month becausethey want to move every month.
With Airbnb and Internet now,that's easier, right, than it used
to be.
Yep, that's true.
It's a lot less work to find aplace to stay and to do all that.
True.
(45:45):
Expensive, though.
It's not cheap.
So what would be your ideallength at any location if you were
going to continue doing it?
I really like to settle in forthree months at a location.
I tend to find that if youreally want to get the rhythm of
a place, you need to be therefor three months.
And if the end of threemonths, you don't want to leave,
still, it's worth looking atcoming back to or making it a repeating
(46:09):
place.
That being said, if you hit aplace and within the first month,
you're like, I know,absolutely not.
Then it's also nice to be ableto not be locked in that long.
So most of the digital nomadsI know, when they're doing, looking
at a new place to try, they'llliterally just book something for
(46:30):
a week or two weeks, and thenonce they get there, they'll come
off of Airbnb and rent localfor the rest of the time there, which
tends to be less expensive,better for the local economy and
so on.
But, you know, if you're goingto be in a place for longer than
a tourist visa allows for, youreally do need to apply for a digital
(46:50):
nomad visa.
Done.
And play by those rules.
I think it's really important.
And they allow you longer.
Right.
Even up to a year or something.
The digital nomad was.
Some places are a year, someplaces will extend two or three years.
There's a lot of controversyabout being a digital nomad right
now and the impact oneconomies and things like that.
But there's a lot to take intoconsideration with all of those things.
(47:11):
And one of the things that'svery easy to do is just get stuck
in the expat kind of community.
And I personally feel likeit's important to extend beyond that
and get involved in the.
In the local community,wherever you're at, and, you know,
be as integrative as possible,not hold yourself separate because
other, you know, then you'rejust a.
(47:33):
A colonist.
How.
How do your adult kids feelabout it?
Oh, they're all for it.
I mean, I miss them like fire.
This is actually, you know,they're both now adults.
My daughter's in University.
My son's working, and this isby far the most amount of time I've
ever spent away from them.
But we weren't able to kind ofget them over into Europe.
(47:55):
But they've both been here toNova Scotia.
My daughter's been back asecond time, and they're.
They're in favor of it.
And we're even kind of looking at.
I'm going to be gettingpermanent residency here, of course,
because I'm married to aCanadian, but my kids may be able
to get that as well.
They're still young enoughthat it's.
It's open to them.
So we're in conversation about that.
(48:16):
And, you know, it's funny,because you could live.
You could live four or fivehours from each other and still see
each other as much as you are now.
We moved down here to becloser to my brother, and we probably
see him once every quarter.
He lives like five miles from us.
So, you know, well, that's like.
You and I live in 45 minutes away.
And we can only ever see eachother at the conference twice a year.
We'd say let's get together.
(48:36):
And we just never did.
So this has been fascinating.
The whole conversation's beenabsolutely fat.
I've learned so much about youtoday, and I've known you for so
long.
I think that's.
It's great.
What's the website for Twin Flames?
Oh, it's Twin Flames Studios.
There's a lot of S's in theredot com.
And if anybody lives in theGainesville area and are into improv,
what's the name of that?
(48:56):
Are they still active, thatimprov group?
Oh, they're absolutely still active.
You can go tocommunityimprov.com which is a great
URL.
If you were to tell.
So if you were to givesomebody advice, they've heard this
and they decided they wantedto give improv a try, what do you
tell them to do?
Do.
What's your advice?
Go to most improv companiesand organizations.
(49:18):
I found this in Spain.
I found this in England.
I found it in Austin.
I found it everywhere thatI've been.
There's 99% of the time, atime of the week where you can go
in and drop in and do, like anintro kind of.
Kind of playtime.
No pressure.
Just go in and try it, and youjust get a flavor to see if you see
(49:40):
what it's like.
And it's not that deep.
It's like you're generally noton a big stage with a whole bunch
of People watching you andthings like that.
You're generally in a roomwith four to 10 people, maybe up
to 20 if it's, you know, likecommunity improv in Gainesville gets
some big bigger groups andit's basically like recess when you
(50:01):
were, when you were a kid witha little bit more structure.
It's just, it's really fun andyou meet some great people and there's
no pressure and no one's goingto tell you you, you were bad.
And it's, it's very freeing.
We were all bad at the beginning.
It's like when we first start,we were all bad.
But you get better.
It's like anything else.
(50:21):
The more comfortable you get,the better you get.
And that's the other beautifulthing about improv is, you know,
that your filter comes off toa certain extent.
Everyone's still respectful,but then some.
You know, the other day I waswith somebody and they were holding
back what they wanted to sayand, and our improv coach was like,
just say it, just say it, justsay it.
And it ended up being thefunniest thing of the night because
(50:44):
it was so out of pocket and itwas so silly and she was like, oh,
it's not the right thing tosay, but it was.
And those are usually theGolden Nuggets.
Right?
We're going back to that.
Thank you, Tina, appreciateyou joining me.
Oh, thank you.
And have fun in Nova Scotia.
Well, thanks.
I appreciate that.
Come and visit.
(51:05):
Well, I'll be back next weekwith Ashley, Lisa and a special first
time co host next Friday.
Jamie is doing her second weekof her Money Roberts clinic there
at the Flyover farm and she'llbe back a week from Monday.
So thank you for joining us today.
We really appreciate it.
Have a terrific weekend,everybody, and we'll see you back
here on Monday.
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