April 15, 2025 • 30 mins
On the April episode of The Quarter Horse Podcast, Kyle Hubbell joins us to discuss the unique hoof care needs of Quarter Horses, from common issues and specialized shoeing for various disciplines to barefoot considerations and advancements in farriery.
The hilarious Heather Wallace, a talented animal body worker, also shares her expertise on how the Quarter Horse's conformation affects movement, highlighting key areas for bodywork and common postural imbalances. Plus, we'll get Heather's perspective on her (possibly timid) experiences with Quarter Horses and her insights into recurring health issues within the breed.
Get ready for practical advice, expert insights, and a good laugh with our wonderful guests!
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- Premier Sponsor: Sentinel Premium Horse Feed
- Guest: Kyle Hubbell
- Guest: Heather Wallace
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
You are listening to the HorseRadio Network, part of the Equine
Network family.
What a beautiful day forhorses in the morning.
You are listening to thenumber one horse podcast in the world.
Here is your entertaining lookat the horse world and the people
(00:25):
in it.
Foreign.
This is Ashley Winch in Albuquerque.
New Mexico, and I'm KatGunther from White Lake, Michigan.
You're listening to theQuarter Horse Podcast.
Good morning, horse World.
You're listening to theQuarter Horse Podcast.
Where we explore theversatility of the.
(00:46):
World'S most popular breed ofhorse, the American quarter horse.
I am so excited about today'sepisode and our guests, we are kind
of pivoting away.
I know usually you guys hearus covering different disciplines
that quarter horses compete inbecause, you know, they could do
anything.
(01:08):
So it was Cat's idea fortoday's episode to really focus on
quarter horses from nose totail and everything in between.
So we have a farrier joiningus as well as a body worker who I
think some of you might recognize.
Cat, tell me about yourquarter horse, Teddy.
What was he built like?
He was your classic quarter horse.
(01:29):
He did not do great in halter.
I got him when he was 18, sohe was kind of past his prime for
that.
But senior halter, Seniorsenior halter, he actually won it
one class one time.
And I think it's so funny.
I had like 19 horses, and hewas maybe 19 at the time, so.
It was kind of.
He was elderly.
But no, he was built like aclassic quarter horse, you know,
(01:50):
the big booty, the big badonkadonk.
He never really had too manyhoof issues.
Never really anything with navicular.
I just remember he was alwaysvery stiff, so I couldn't lunge him.
You know, we talk a lot about,like, the bodywork and everything,
so I'm very excited to seewhat our guests have to say today.
My quarter horse, Boo, was.
Was very atypically built, andit's not like he had a famous lineage
(02:15):
or anything like that.
But at most of our shows, Iwould have people come up and ask
me, what breed is that horse?
And.
And I'd say a quarter horse,and nobody would believe me.
And he had a bit of a longerback than you'd typically see in
quarter horses and a bitheavier of a face.
I want to say not so much therefined nose that I think more typical
(02:35):
quarter horses have, but, youknow, really, quarter horses, I think
more than other breeds, havereally a lot of differences across
the breed because of what theydo or what they're bred.
To do.
You know, I think when youlook at, I don't know, let's say
a Hanoverian, they're gonnafit into a mold, whereas a quarter
(02:59):
horse, you're gonna have, youknow, an off the track quarter horse
is gonna look incrediblydifferent than a hunt seat quarter
horse or western pleasurequarter horse or a halter quarter
horse.
And so it's an interestingconversation to have because within
the breed there is such variation.
And I mean, personally, Ithink that's part of what makes them
(03:21):
so great.
But we all know we're partialaround here.
A little biased, but I agreewith you.
It's.
It's fascinating how there'sso many different types of builds
of quarter horses.
With your quarter horse, didyou do any specific, like, body work
or shoeing or anything like that?
He never.
He had great feet.
We were lucky in that department.
We did do hawk injections whenhe was older.
(03:46):
We did eventing, jumping, and dressage.
So he was very active.
And so we did that as apreventative measure.
And, and he responded verywell to that.
Otherwise, I mean, he just hada stiff neck and it was so muscular
and he was handsome as heck,but my gosh, he was.
(04:06):
He could not bend left or right.
Our, our circle score is a dressage.
We're, we're.
I think like a 7 was the bestwe got.
There you go.
Did you ever try, like, magnawave therapy or anything?
You know, I haven't, and we'vehad a lot of, of like P.E.
i think it's P, E, M, F or,you know, this kind of therapy, experts
(04:27):
on horses in the morning.
And I love hearing about it.
I think all these differenttherapies coming out are so interesting.
And our guest Heather willtouch on, you know, the importance
of making sure you're workingwith your veterinarian and, and,
and having that team lined upso that we're all doing what's best
for our horses.
But I'm just so excited todayto talk about quarter horses, how
(04:51):
they're built and how thataffects, you know, what they do for
us and, and how versatile theycan really be.
So with that, let's jump intoour first guest, Kyle.
Okay, Kyle, so I'm reallyexcited to talk to you today.
I would love to know, how didyou get started in being a farrier?
So honestly, I guess probablythe biggest thing for me was I was
(05:13):
kind of always around horses,you know, growing up, a little bit
of rodeo stuff, my olderbrother, but primarily I was a welder
for the longest time, and Iwas at working For a job, Honestly,
at the one time, one of my 10different jobs and I was just kind
of bored with the job that Iwas at and I was always kind of like,
(05:34):
you know what, I love workingwith horses.
I love working with metal.
Let's put the two together andhave a go at it.
Obviously a bunch of mybuddies there were team roping buddies
and whatnot.
They're horseshoers also.
So I talked to my one friendand I said, you know, was kind of
followed him around a littlebit and you know, asked his advice
of how to get started and he'slike, if you can go to a school,
(05:55):
go for as long as you can.
So I chose a school in West Virginia.
It's called Meredith Manor.
And I went there for theirnine month program.
So the rest is history.
Wow.
So how long have you beendoing this for?
So I guess this is my 13thyear now.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, it's impressive.
So, okay, we, we talk aboutquarter horses on this podcast.
(06:18):
How many horses would you say?
Like, what's the comparisonbetween quarter horses and non quarter
horses you work on?
I guess right now it justswing pretty heavily the other, the
other way.
I'm now probably about 60, 40quarter horses and hunter jumpers.
Okay.
And then a little bit ofmixture of some backyard stuff that
I still do.
Okay.
But yeah, so probably about 60is quarter horses.
(06:40):
Gotcha.
And what are some of the mostcommon hoof issues you see in quarter
horses?
Oh boy.
Probably just, I mean overall,I mean for, for being a quarter horse
and the show horses that I doare basically thin walls.
(07:00):
A thin walled breed is whatit's kind of turned into.
So I would say that, I mean asa whole, it's not like I see like
navicular or any.
I mean that gets thrown aroundmore common than it should.
But I mean just a general dayto day of what I deal with.
And especially, yeah, I wouldsay just a thin walled.
(07:23):
And what I guess you couldalso say like an asymmetrical type
foot.
I see a lot of that.
Okay, do you think a lot ofit's been through breeding or just
what do you attribute that towhen you see more of it?
I definitely think breeding,without a doubt, that's the only
common denominator.
And when I see breeding with different.
(07:45):
So like different types ofhorses, obviously I have some ranch
riders, I have some allarounders, I have some western Western
pleasure.
So when I get into thosedifferent disciplines within the
quarter horse and then I'veshot some rainers and stuff like
that.
So it's fun for me to seethose different subsects, sub categories
(08:07):
of the quarter horse and theirfeet and how their confirmation is.
And then think back, and Ialways ask the trainers, I'm like,
as I get to know the horses,like, how's this one bred?
How's this one bred?
And then I see and study thebloodlines as they come through to
me, from young horses to oldhorses, and then I look back and
say, okay, that mare makes sense.
(08:28):
Or that stallion.
That makes sense.
So, yeah, it's.
I definitely think it's abreeding thing, for sure.
Okay.
Is there a bloodline you'reparticularly fond of for how their
feet come out?
You know, I.
Well, I don't.
And I say feet.
I know they're hooves.
I always call them feet.
I can't help myself.
(08:48):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I don't know.
I can't say as I have afavorite breed yet.
Just any for me.
Again, coming back to more ofthe ranchier stock breeds and stuff
like that in the quarter horseworld, I can't say that I have a
favorite, per se.
No.
Gotcha, Gotcha.
And what are some factorspeople should consider when they're
(09:09):
deciding if their horse shouldbe barefoot or with shoes?
I mean, the number one reasonis where exceeds the growth.
So.
And then beyond that is forcomfort and discipline as far as
if they need a certain amountof support or traction to perform
their job.
Again, as a show horse, I'mbasing that somewhat more around
(09:31):
show horses, but that's mybiggest thing is I'm, It's.
I'm one of probably the fewfarriers, I guess you could say that
if a horse can go barefoot,I'm all for it.
I was just talking with aclient yesterday.
She was talking about gettinga new horse and yada, yada, yada
and all the things.
And I, I flat out said to her,she's like, do you think it could
go barefoot?
And I'm like, well, that's abig if.
(09:53):
But, like, if we can get itthere, of course I'm all for it.
Just most 99 of the time, youknow, these.
A show horse just needs shoesbecause they're getting work so much,
they're wearing down theirfoot faster than they can grow new
foot.
So that's usually where thatcomes from.
And then a lot of it comesfrom the owner and what the owner
(10:14):
is willing to do to keep thathorse barefoot, if we can get it
barefoot or if the horse growsa lot of foot.
Actually, I just finished mylast Horse of the day is.
I think she just turned fivethis year.
Um, you know, she, she grows aton of foot.
You know, she's a quarter horse.
Um, she's only ever had front shoes.
I've shot her, been working onher since she was, you know, 2 years
(10:36):
old.
And she grows like, her hindfeet are beautiful.
She grows a ton of foot.
And I keep most of my horseson a four week schedule.
And these guys, like, forbeing on a four week schedule, she
grows almost twice as much aseverybody else.
So.
Wow, that's, that's a lot.
And kind of to that point,what is the importance of hoof health
(10:57):
to overall health for aquarter horse?
I think it's, I think it'sdefinitely very paramount.
I mean, it's.
And again, I had thisconversation today.
We were talking about it withironically, the same owner.
She has an older gelding whohas really bad knees.
And we both came to theagreement that he probably wouldn't
(11:21):
have lived as long as he haswithout shoes.
He has again, like I put a lotof mechanics into his shoes and do
all sorts that kind of stuff.
If he didn't have shoes, he'svery, very flat footed and bad knees
and kind of low healed and allthis kind of stuff anyway, so that's
a prime example of how shoesdefinitely help a horse and, and
(11:44):
keep that horse comfortable.
I don't know, I don't putquite as much emphasis into the shoe,
actually.
I was thinking about thistoday, I guess maybe getting ready
for talking with you.
Yeah.
Your intuition was preparing.
Yeah.
And that, you know, I used toput so much effort into my shoes
(12:06):
and all this stuff, you know,kind of go down this path of, you
know, rocking this and rollingthat and trimming this and doing
that.
And I don't know if the shoeitself, it's how it's applied as
with all the things, the pads,the packing, the shoes, whatever
you put on the horse, thebottom of that horse's foot.
But to me, the trim is more important.
(12:30):
Having that foot balanced, notonly inside and outside, medial,
lateral, anterior, posterior,all that kind of stuff to me.
And then your shoe is whatlocks that trim into its life cycle
throughout the shoeing cycle.
So, yeah, I mean, shoes have agreat role to play.
Obviously they can be appliedimproperly and cause a lot of issues.
(12:53):
But a good basic trim and thena nice basic shoe applied solves
90% of your problems.
There's just so much to it.
There's.
It seems like a science and an artwork.
Yeah, yeah, it definitely is.
It Definitely is.
I think so.
And I think if you look at itthat way, is the best.
But, and this is out of mycuriosity here, how many horses do
(13:15):
you normally shoe a day?
My average right now is aboutsix full sets.
Does your back hurt?
Because I always.
Whenever I see the farriersworking, I think your back must be
killing you.
Yeah, I mean, without a doubt.
Like, six.
Six to seven is kind of likemy max, where I'm like, all right,
I'm done.
So fair enough.
(13:35):
I.
I respect.
I respect that.
And then we always ask ourguests this question.
What's your favorite funnystory of a time where you were working
with a quarter horse?
Oh, boy.
You might have a few thatcomes to your mind first.
Man, oh, man.
It's been a while since I'vehad any crazy ones because I work
(13:58):
on a bunch of nice horses now.
Ones that are respectful.
Yeah, it's mostly the people,if anything, just.
I don't know if I can't.
I can't.
I can't think of anything thatcomes to mind as far as a funny time
with a specific horse.
I just mostly think of the people.
And you kind of look at themand, you know, internally shake your
(14:20):
head and smile and nod andlike, okay, all right.
If that's what you think.
Sometimes that's all you cando is just smile and nod.
Yeah.
And then, like, politely saywhy or why not that what they're
thinking is.
Is correct or something.
Yeah, Yeah.
I guess I could say it's more.
I.
I can't think of a horse in particular.
I have a couple, like.
(14:42):
Well, the one horse, J.T.
i did today, you know, I'vebeen doing him for a long time.
Like, he licks me, you know,like that.
That counts.
That's pretty funny.
Yeah.
You see those videos.
Like, he, like, it's alwayslike, he's good old boy, and, you
know, he just licks me, youknow, so stuff like that.
I like that.
I like that.
That's probably it.
There we go.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us today, Kyle.
Yeah, you're very welcome.
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My friend and hrn favoriteHeather Wallace is here.
You might know her as thehilarious co host of Adulting with
Horses and as someone whobravely tackles riding with a bit
(16:42):
of, shall we say, caution.
But Heather is also anincredibly talented author, a super
mom, and an animal body workerwhose expertise was recently showcased
in the Washington Post.
Clap, clap, clap, clap, clap,clap for her bodywork at the Westminster
Dog Show.
Heather, I am so happy to haveyou on the quarter horse podcast
(17:05):
this morning.
Thank you for joining us.
Oh my gosh.
Thank you guys so much forhaving me.
And you make me sound a lotcooler than I really am.
That was pretty cool.
I didn't know the whole dogshow thing.
That's amazing.
Congratulations.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Her.
Both Heather and Natalie arejust like blowing up the press right
now.
And we love to see it.
(17:26):
We love to see it.
Horse girls breaking free ofthe paddocks and just running amok.
Oh my God, so many puns.
I love you so much.
Okay, first out the gate,Heather, let's talk quarter horses.
Do you have any experiencetimidly riding any quarter horses
in your past?
I love quarter horses.
(17:46):
So yes, I've definitely ridden them.
I definitely tried to buy onewhen I went to the Sea Lazy Ranch
in Colorado a couple of years ago.
He was so great.
His name was Duck and I keptcalling him Lucky Duck and I inquired
about his availability.
He was, alas, not for salebecause he's perfect.
But yeah, I, I love quarter horses.
(18:08):
I've never met such a greatbreed that is so differently built
from horse to horse, but hasjust like amazing personality across
the board.
I mean, you get it everything.
You get spicy, you get sweet,you get smart.
I mean, it's all wrapped up inone great package.
We couldn't agree more.
That's why we're here on thequarter horse show.
(18:29):
So let's, let's talk aboutConfirmation, because I love that
you, you mentioned they allhave different shapes.
You know, from, from a halterbred quarter horse to let's say an
off the track quarter horse.
Those are going to be two verydifferent put together horses.
Overall, I think we can agreea typical quarter horse is going
to have the big old rear endthat we love, that badonkadonk little
(18:54):
booty and then a shorter neckand you know, the big jaw and little,
little tapered nose.
So with that, the generalconfirmation of quarter horses, you
know, we're not Talking aboutthe 17 handed peg appendixes, just
the general quarter horses.
How does the confirmation of aquarter horse affect its movement,
(19:15):
would you say?
And what body work is bestsuited to help with quarter horses
specifically given their,their confirmation?
The larger rear ends.
Sure.
Yeah.
So, I mean you, you said it.
So they are very much packedwith power in the hind end, which
is, as we all know, the engineof the horse.
So, so you get a reallypronounced glute, you get pronounced
(19:37):
hamstrings.
There's three hamstringmuscles specifically.
And so you get a lot of thathind end engagement because they
push forward.
But what a lot of people don'tunderstand or really realize too
is that that is all lifted andengaged by the lower back and the
psoas muscles that come fromunderneath in that flank and that
core.
(19:58):
So I think the core is areally underrated muscle group for
the quarter horse and also forthe psoas.
It's such a deep muscle thatnot a lot of massage therapists can
actually access it.
So it has to be accessedindirectly through other muscle groups
by someone who has got moretraining in the deeper tissues or
(20:23):
has maybe integrated withchiropractors or osteopaths or done
multiple certifications.
So I really like, like TriggerPoint therapy is one of my go tos
when we talk about quarter horses.
I work with a lot of barrelhorses and cutting horses specifically
in that breed.
Trigger point is one of my favorites.
Sports massage is another one.
(20:43):
But that doesn't necessarilygo deep enough when you're talking
hind end engagement, in my opinion.
Are there any exercises thatriders can do that are pretty simple
that could help with this core muscle?
Absolutely.
So exercises and stretches.
So exercises would be a lot oftransition and interval training.
(21:06):
So I'm a big fan of like a hit workout.
So we all know quarter horsesare sprinters by nature, so why don't
we use that?
Right, let's get them to go forward.
So I like a lope before I likea jog.
Let's get them stretched outand then kind of engaging from that
hind.
I like, you know, to do ground poles.
I like to do transitions fromhalt to lope and back again.
(21:28):
Backups are great also.
You really want them to getlike tucked under and lifted in that
back.
And then the other thing Iwould say is if we're going to do
a stretch, I'm not the bestadvocate for like one of those rear
end stretches because a lot ofthese quarter horses can get a posterior
pelvis from all that backingup and stuff that they do, which
(21:50):
is when the pelvis kind oftucks back and their hucks and hams,
hamstrings go underneath them.
So if you're going to do thatstretch, it kind of encourages that.
What I like to do is a belly lift.
So you're going to place onehand under the sternum, one hand
under the belly, and you'regoing to kind of squat, press them
gently up and engage that backand that core right before you get
(22:11):
on.
You only have to do it onceand it's like a plank instead of
a sit up.
I feel like I used to dosomething like that with my quarter
horse where I'd kind of pushup because I read it that that brings
me into my next question.
How, what do you recommend for people?
Like, are there materialspeople can read to learn about these
terms and places on thehorse's body?
Yeah.
So I always have to say as aprofessional, you want to be really
(22:34):
careful kind of what videosyou're following.
Even when I first started, Iused to recommend a lot of carrot
stretches for people.
And then I realized that a lotof people didn't know enough and
were doing them incorrectly.
So you want to be careful whoyou follow.
But if you go on, well, I'mjust going to do a shameless plug
here for my book BodyConditioning for the Horse and Rider.
(22:55):
There's a lot of like horseowner friendly stretches and exercises
you can do regardless of the breed.
But you can, you can followcertain bodyworkers or certain chiropractors
and see what they recommend.
So you're going to want tocheck and make sure that person is
accredited, is licensed and insured.
Because just because you takea, you know, you watch a YouTube
(23:17):
video doesn't mean you can dothe stretch.
So you want to make sure thatsomeone who's actually showing you
how to do it really knowstheir stuff and has the training.
So I always say that with likean air of caution.
Everything that I show myclients, I also always say like let's
double check and make surewe're doing it correctly from time
to time and just check in.
But you can look online,there's books you can read.
(23:37):
I think that the best teacherthough is the horse.
And so try experiment, do acouple of things and see what works
best for you.
Because sometimes it'ssomething that no one's ever thought
of.
So going back to thesestretches, and I know you had mentioned
some hip issues that you seein the quarter horse due to that
(24:01):
badonk.
No, from throwing it back andeverything, what are some other common
issues that you see, you know,working with the quarter horses.
I know you mentioned yourclients are cutting and raining.
What are, what are some issuesthat you commonly see working with?
I know in my experience, I diddressage with my quarter horse and
(24:21):
bless his heart, he had thestiffest neck you've ever seen.
Our 20 meter circles were a joke.
Well, that's because they havea short, thick neck.
Right, exactly.
So, I mean, the way an animalis built obviously varies and I think
that discipline has a hugeimpact on how they can move.
(24:43):
And I'm going to throw anotherwrench in there and say in addition
to discipline, the tack they use.
Right.
So there is different tack perdiscipline and each discipline uses
different body parts.
Right.
And is kind of focused on those.
So what I might see in like asorting or a reigning horse is a
lot of, you know, that hindend, a lot of pressure on the hocks
(25:06):
and the, you know, the tendonsand flexors in the hind end.
But in a barrel horse, I mightsee more rib issues, I might see
more pole issues, I might seemore neck issues.
And so it really depends, buttack is going to be a super important
thing too because not all fullquarter horse bars fit all quarter
horses.
(25:26):
And I think that's reallyimportant to note and get out there
because we've come a long waywhen it comes to tack for our animals.
But not all quarter horses arebuilt exactly the same.
They have tendencies wherethey've got these big shoulders and
these big badonkadonks, but,but really short backs.
And most western saddles are22 inches treed, and that is way
(25:48):
too long for most quarterhorses that are, you know, modernly
built.
So we have to kind of thinkabout how do we open up those shoulders,
how do we open up that hindend to give them that mobility so
we can get that core engagedand have them lift the rider move
correctly.
So it's really interesting tosee from discipline to discipline
just how the saddles fit.
(26:10):
So in Western dressage, you'regoing to get a more rounded skirt.
You're going to get somethingthat's a little shorter than, say,
a ranch ranch saddle or aroping saddle.
Right.
And those are a lot longer.
And they might block that.
That curve of the spine, andthey might be able to just pivot.
Right.
Kind of like a.
(26:30):
Like a boat on the water, asopposed to wrapping around like a
barrel horse would need to.
Right.
So it's very interesting tosee the differences from, say, like
a ranch horse to a barrelhorse to a cutting horse, even though
they're all quarter horses.
This is all really greatinformation, Heather.
Where can folks go to find you?
(26:51):
So the best way to find me ison my website, animalbodywork.com
or on Instagram and Facebookat animal bodywork nj.
And just to note, guys, I hadforgotten, in Heather's illustrious
introduction, she's also asaddle fitter, and so she brings
so much knowledge andexperience to the table.
(27:13):
Heather, before we wrap, wealways ask our guests one story.
And we'll give you a bit of acaveat, since I know your horses
are not quarter horses, but we would.
Sorry, guys.
You know, it's okay.
Even though we're the quarterhorse podcast, we don't.
Well, I have a paint cross.
I don't know if that counts.
Yeah, we'll count that.
I like it.
Okay, well, yeah, count that.
It's April Fools.
(27:34):
When we're recording, we coulddo whatever we want.
So we always ask our guests toshare a quirky horse story, a funny
quirk your horse has or afavorite show story, something that
happened at a competition thatyou'll never forget.
Do you have a funny story to share?
How to limit it to just one?
I know that's the hard part.
(27:56):
Problem.
Okay, so I'm gonna keep it toOdin, who's my little paint cross.
So he has a mysterious background.
We're not really sure where hecame from, but we were told he's
great on the trails.
He was trained in westerndressage, so I decided to take him
to a hunter pace.
And I'm a timid writer forthose of you who don't know me.
And I was like, well, he's atrail master.
(28:17):
This is going to be totes fine.
Right?
So we go out, and I was toldhe was a little dominant.
So we're just like, let's justwalk and kind of, you know, stay
at the back of the pack.
Well, we had multiple groupsfall, you know, following and passing
us and whooping it up, whichyou're not really supposed to do
on a hunter pace.
And he did pretty good atfirst, and then he bolted, and then
(28:40):
that was fine.
And then he decided to startgrunting like.
Like a.
And he's grunting, and then hestarts bucking and bolting.
And then he decides he's goingto try to drop his shoulder, buck
and bolt.
And so no matter what, wecouldn't calm him down.
He decided he was ready to bethe top dog of that hunter pace.
(29:01):
So this little girl had to hopoff and walk him back.
And I'll tell you, we got backto the finish line, we signed out.
I had to disqualify with mybig girl pants on.
And he really did not likeletting other horses finish ahead
of him.
I mean, that horse wanted togo forward, and we were just.
We decided we weren't theright pair for that.
(29:24):
So, anyway, my daughter is nowjumping him in the jumpers.
Well, it sounds like thejumpers might be more his speed pun.
Very much intended.
Very much intended.
He is.
He's a little dynamo.
He has the energizers arebunny all written all over him.
And I'm too tired to ride ahorse like that, so I love it.
(29:45):
Same.
I just want a dopey doe downthe trail like I.
That's exactly it.
Oh, my gosh.
Well, Heather, always a pleasure.
Thank you for coming on theshow today.
And, folks, don't forget to gocheck out Heather and Natalie's podcast,
Adulting with Horses, also onthe Horse Radio Network.
It's hysterical.
You won't regret it.
Thank you.
Thank you guys so much.
(30:07):
Thanks so much for tuning into the quarter horse podcast on Horses
in the Morning.
Be sure to, like, subscribeand tell your friends all about the
world's favorite breed of horse.
You are listening to the HorseRadio Network, part of the Equine
Network family.
What a beautiful day forhorses in the morning.
You are listening to thenumber one horse podcast in the world.
Here is your entertaining lookat the horse world and the people
(00:25):
in it.
Foreign.
This is Ashley Winch in Albuquerque.
New Mexico, and I'm KatGunther from White Lake, Michigan.
You're listening to theQuarter Horse Podcast.
Good morning, horse World.
You're listening to theQuarter Horse Podcast.
Where we explore theversatility of the.
(00:46):
World'S most popular breed ofhorse, the American quarter horse.
I am so excited about today'sepisode and our guests, we are kind
of pivoting away.
I know usually you guys hearus covering different disciplines
that quarter horses compete inbecause, you know, they could do
anything.
(01:08):
So it was Cat's idea fortoday's episode to really focus on
quarter horses from nose totail and everything in between.
So we have a farrier joiningus as well as a body worker who I
think some of you might recognize.
Cat, tell me about yourquarter horse, Teddy.
What was he built like?
He was your classic quarter horse.
(01:29):
He did not do great in halter.
I got him when he was 18, sohe was kind of past his prime for
that.
But senior halter, Seniorsenior halter, he actually won it
one class one time.
And I think it's so funny.
I had like 19 horses, and hewas maybe 19 at the time, so.
It was kind of.
He was elderly.
But no, he was built like aclassic quarter horse, you know,
(01:50):
the big booty, the big badonkadonk.
He never really had too manyhoof issues.
Never really anything with navicular.
I just remember he was alwaysvery stiff, so I couldn't lunge him.
You know, we talk a lot about,like, the bodywork and everything,
so I'm very excited to seewhat our guests have to say today.
My quarter horse, Boo, was.
Was very atypically built, andit's not like he had a famous lineage
(02:15):
or anything like that.
But at most of our shows, Iwould have people come up and ask
me, what breed is that horse?
And.
And I'd say a quarter horse,and nobody would believe me.
And he had a bit of a longerback than you'd typically see in
quarter horses and a bitheavier of a face.
I want to say not so much therefined nose that I think more typical
(02:35):
quarter horses have, but, youknow, really, quarter horses, I think
more than other breeds, havereally a lot of differences across
the breed because of what theydo or what they're bred.
To do.
You know, I think when youlook at, I don't know, let's say
a Hanoverian, they're gonnafit into a mold, whereas a quarter
(02:59):
horse, you're gonna have, youknow, an off the track quarter horse
is gonna look incrediblydifferent than a hunt seat quarter
horse or western pleasurequarter horse or a halter quarter
horse.
And so it's an interestingconversation to have because within
the breed there is such variation.
And I mean, personally, Ithink that's part of what makes them
(03:21):
so great.
But we all know we're partialaround here.
A little biased, but I agreewith you.
It's.
It's fascinating how there'sso many different types of builds
of quarter horses.
With your quarter horse, didyou do any specific, like, body work
or shoeing or anything like that?
He never.
He had great feet.
We were lucky in that department.
We did do hawk injections whenhe was older.
(03:46):
We did eventing, jumping, and dressage.
So he was very active.
And so we did that as apreventative measure.
And, and he responded verywell to that.
Otherwise, I mean, he just hada stiff neck and it was so muscular
and he was handsome as heck,but my gosh, he was.
(04:06):
He could not bend left or right.
Our, our circle score is a dressage.
We're, we're.
I think like a 7 was the bestwe got.
There you go.
Did you ever try, like, magnawave therapy or anything?
You know, I haven't, and we'vehad a lot of, of like P.E.
i think it's P, E, M, F or,you know, this kind of therapy, experts
(04:27):
on horses in the morning.
And I love hearing about it.
I think all these differenttherapies coming out are so interesting.
And our guest Heather willtouch on, you know, the importance
of making sure you're workingwith your veterinarian and, and,
and having that team lined upso that we're all doing what's best
for our horses.
But I'm just so excited todayto talk about quarter horses, how
(04:51):
they're built and how thataffects, you know, what they do for
us and, and how versatile theycan really be.
So with that, let's jump intoour first guest, Kyle.
Okay, Kyle, so I'm reallyexcited to talk to you today.
I would love to know, how didyou get started in being a farrier?
So honestly, I guess probablythe biggest thing for me was I was
(05:13):
kind of always around horses,you know, growing up, a little bit
of rodeo stuff, my olderbrother, but primarily I was a welder
for the longest time, and Iwas at working For a job, Honestly,
at the one time, one of my 10different jobs and I was just kind
of bored with the job that Iwas at and I was always kind of like,
(05:34):
you know what, I love workingwith horses.
I love working with metal.
Let's put the two together andhave a go at it.
Obviously a bunch of mybuddies there were team roping buddies
and whatnot.
They're horseshoers also.
So I talked to my one friendand I said, you know, was kind of
followed him around a littlebit and you know, asked his advice
of how to get started and he'slike, if you can go to a school,
(05:55):
go for as long as you can.
So I chose a school in West Virginia.
It's called Meredith Manor.
And I went there for theirnine month program.
So the rest is history.
Wow.
So how long have you beendoing this for?
So I guess this is my 13thyear now.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, it's impressive.
So, okay, we, we talk aboutquarter horses on this podcast.
(06:18):
How many horses would you say?
Like, what's the comparisonbetween quarter horses and non quarter
horses you work on?
I guess right now it justswing pretty heavily the other, the
other way.
I'm now probably about 60, 40quarter horses and hunter jumpers.
Okay.
And then a little bit ofmixture of some backyard stuff that
I still do.
Okay.
But yeah, so probably about 60is quarter horses.
(06:40):
Gotcha.
And what are some of the mostcommon hoof issues you see in quarter
horses?
Oh boy.
Probably just, I mean overall,I mean for, for being a quarter horse
and the show horses that I doare basically thin walls.
(07:00):
A thin walled breed is whatit's kind of turned into.
So I would say that, I mean asa whole, it's not like I see like
navicular or any.
I mean that gets thrown aroundmore common than it should.
But I mean just a general dayto day of what I deal with.
And especially, yeah, I wouldsay just a thin walled.
(07:23):
And what I guess you couldalso say like an asymmetrical type
foot.
I see a lot of that.
Okay, do you think a lot ofit's been through breeding or just
what do you attribute that towhen you see more of it?
I definitely think breeding,without a doubt, that's the only
common denominator.
And when I see breeding with different.
(07:45):
So like different types ofhorses, obviously I have some ranch
riders, I have some allarounders, I have some western Western
pleasure.
So when I get into thosedifferent disciplines within the
quarter horse and then I'veshot some rainers and stuff like
that.
So it's fun for me to seethose different subsects, sub categories
(08:07):
of the quarter horse and theirfeet and how their confirmation is.
And then think back, and Ialways ask the trainers, I'm like,
as I get to know the horses,like, how's this one bred?
How's this one bred?
And then I see and study thebloodlines as they come through to
me, from young horses to oldhorses, and then I look back and
say, okay, that mare makes sense.
(08:28):
Or that stallion.
That makes sense.
So, yeah, it's.
I definitely think it's abreeding thing, for sure.
Okay.
Is there a bloodline you'reparticularly fond of for how their
feet come out?
You know, I.
Well, I don't.
And I say feet.
I know they're hooves.
I always call them feet.
I can't help myself.
(08:48):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I don't know.
I can't say as I have afavorite breed yet.
Just any for me.
Again, coming back to more ofthe ranchier stock breeds and stuff
like that in the quarter horseworld, I can't say that I have a
favorite, per se.
No.
Gotcha, Gotcha.
And what are some factorspeople should consider when they're
(09:09):
deciding if their horse shouldbe barefoot or with shoes?
I mean, the number one reasonis where exceeds the growth.
So.
And then beyond that is forcomfort and discipline as far as
if they need a certain amountof support or traction to perform
their job.
Again, as a show horse, I'mbasing that somewhat more around
(09:31):
show horses, but that's mybiggest thing is I'm, It's.
I'm one of probably the fewfarriers, I guess you could say that
if a horse can go barefoot,I'm all for it.
I was just talking with aclient yesterday.
She was talking about gettinga new horse and yada, yada, yada
and all the things.
And I, I flat out said to her,she's like, do you think it could
go barefoot?
And I'm like, well, that's abig if.
(09:53):
But, like, if we can get itthere, of course I'm all for it.
Just most 99 of the time, youknow, these.
A show horse just needs shoesbecause they're getting work so much,
they're wearing down theirfoot faster than they can grow new
foot.
So that's usually where thatcomes from.
And then a lot of it comesfrom the owner and what the owner
(10:14):
is willing to do to keep thathorse barefoot, if we can get it
barefoot or if the horse growsa lot of foot.
Actually, I just finished mylast Horse of the day is.
I think she just turned fivethis year.
Um, you know, she, she grows aton of foot.
You know, she's a quarter horse.
Um, she's only ever had front shoes.
I've shot her, been working onher since she was, you know, 2 years
(10:36):
old.
And she grows like, her hindfeet are beautiful.
She grows a ton of foot.
And I keep most of my horseson a four week schedule.
And these guys, like, forbeing on a four week schedule, she
grows almost twice as much aseverybody else.
So.
Wow, that's, that's a lot.
And kind of to that point,what is the importance of hoof health
(10:57):
to overall health for aquarter horse?
I think it's, I think it'sdefinitely very paramount.
I mean, it's.
And again, I had thisconversation today.
We were talking about it withironically, the same owner.
She has an older gelding whohas really bad knees.
And we both came to theagreement that he probably wouldn't
(11:21):
have lived as long as he haswithout shoes.
He has again, like I put a lotof mechanics into his shoes and do
all sorts that kind of stuff.
If he didn't have shoes, he'svery, very flat footed and bad knees
and kind of low healed and allthis kind of stuff anyway, so that's
a prime example of how shoesdefinitely help a horse and, and
(11:44):
keep that horse comfortable.
I don't know, I don't putquite as much emphasis into the shoe,
actually.
I was thinking about thistoday, I guess maybe getting ready
for talking with you.
Yeah.
Your intuition was preparing.
Yeah.
And that, you know, I used toput so much effort into my shoes
(12:06):
and all this stuff, you know,kind of go down this path of, you
know, rocking this and rollingthat and trimming this and doing
that.
And I don't know if the shoeitself, it's how it's applied as
with all the things, the pads,the packing, the shoes, whatever
you put on the horse, thebottom of that horse's foot.
But to me, the trim is more important.
(12:30):
Having that foot balanced, notonly inside and outside, medial,
lateral, anterior, posterior,all that kind of stuff to me.
And then your shoe is whatlocks that trim into its life cycle
throughout the shoeing cycle.
So, yeah, I mean, shoes have agreat role to play.
Obviously they can be appliedimproperly and cause a lot of issues.
(12:53):
But a good basic trim and thena nice basic shoe applied solves
90% of your problems.
There's just so much to it.
There's.
It seems like a science and an artwork.
Yeah, yeah, it definitely is.
It Definitely is.
I think so.
And I think if you look at itthat way, is the best.
But, and this is out of mycuriosity here, how many horses do
(13:15):
you normally shoe a day?
My average right now is aboutsix full sets.
Does your back hurt?
Because I always.
Whenever I see the farriersworking, I think your back must be
killing you.
Yeah, I mean, without a doubt.
Like, six.
Six to seven is kind of likemy max, where I'm like, all right,
I'm done.
So fair enough.
(13:35):
I.
I respect.
I respect that.
And then we always ask ourguests this question.
What's your favorite funnystory of a time where you were working
with a quarter horse?
Oh, boy.
You might have a few thatcomes to your mind first.
Man, oh, man.
It's been a while since I'vehad any crazy ones because I work
(13:58):
on a bunch of nice horses now.
Ones that are respectful.
Yeah, it's mostly the people,if anything, just.
I don't know if I can't.
I can't.
I can't think of anything thatcomes to mind as far as a funny time
with a specific horse.
I just mostly think of the people.
And you kind of look at themand, you know, internally shake your
(14:20):
head and smile and nod andlike, okay, all right.
If that's what you think.
Sometimes that's all you cando is just smile and nod.
Yeah.
And then, like, politely saywhy or why not that what they're
thinking is.
Is correct or something.
Yeah, Yeah.
I guess I could say it's more.
I.
I can't think of a horse in particular.
I have a couple, like.
(14:42):
Well, the one horse, J.T.
i did today, you know, I'vebeen doing him for a long time.
Like, he licks me, you know,like that.
That counts.
That's pretty funny.
Yeah.
You see those videos.
Like, he, like, it's alwayslike, he's good old boy, and, you
know, he just licks me, youknow, so stuff like that.
I like that.
I like that.
That's probably it.
There we go.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us today, Kyle.
Yeah, you're very welcome.
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for fast shipping, there'sChewy shop now@chewy.com Equine.
My friend and hrn favoriteHeather Wallace is here.
You might know her as thehilarious co host of Adulting with
Horses and as someone whobravely tackles riding with a bit
(16:42):
of, shall we say, caution.
But Heather is also anincredibly talented author, a super
mom, and an animal body workerwhose expertise was recently showcased
in the Washington Post.
Clap, clap, clap, clap, clap,clap for her bodywork at the Westminster
Dog Show.
Heather, I am so happy to haveyou on the quarter horse podcast
(17:05):
this morning.
Thank you for joining us.
Oh my gosh.
Thank you guys so much forhaving me.
And you make me sound a lotcooler than I really am.
That was pretty cool.
I didn't know the whole dogshow thing.
That's amazing.
Congratulations.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Her.
Both Heather and Natalie arejust like blowing up the press right
now.
And we love to see it.
(17:26):
We love to see it.
Horse girls breaking free ofthe paddocks and just running amok.
Oh my God, so many puns.
I love you so much.
Okay, first out the gate,Heather, let's talk quarter horses.
Do you have any experiencetimidly riding any quarter horses
in your past?
I love quarter horses.
(17:46):
So yes, I've definitely ridden them.
I definitely tried to buy onewhen I went to the Sea Lazy Ranch
in Colorado a couple of years ago.
He was so great.
His name was Duck and I keptcalling him Lucky Duck and I inquired
about his availability.
He was, alas, not for salebecause he's perfect.
But yeah, I, I love quarter horses.
(18:08):
I've never met such a greatbreed that is so differently built
from horse to horse, but hasjust like amazing personality across
the board.
I mean, you get it everything.
You get spicy, you get sweet,you get smart.
I mean, it's all wrapped up inone great package.
We couldn't agree more.
That's why we're here on thequarter horse show.
(18:29):
So let's, let's talk aboutConfirmation, because I love that
you, you mentioned they allhave different shapes.
You know, from, from a halterbred quarter horse to let's say an
off the track quarter horse.
Those are going to be two verydifferent put together horses.
Overall, I think we can agreea typical quarter horse is going
to have the big old rear endthat we love, that badonkadonk little
(18:54):
booty and then a shorter neckand you know, the big jaw and little,
little tapered nose.
So with that, the generalconfirmation of quarter horses, you
know, we're not Talking aboutthe 17 handed peg appendixes, just
the general quarter horses.
How does the confirmation of aquarter horse affect its movement,
(19:15):
would you say?
And what body work is bestsuited to help with quarter horses
specifically given their,their confirmation?
The larger rear ends.
Sure.
Yeah.
So, I mean you, you said it.
So they are very much packedwith power in the hind end, which
is, as we all know, the engineof the horse.
So, so you get a reallypronounced glute, you get pronounced
(19:37):
hamstrings.
There's three hamstringmuscles specifically.
And so you get a lot of thathind end engagement because they
push forward.
But what a lot of people don'tunderstand or really realize too
is that that is all lifted andengaged by the lower back and the
psoas muscles that come fromunderneath in that flank and that
core.
(19:58):
So I think the core is areally underrated muscle group for
the quarter horse and also forthe psoas.
It's such a deep muscle thatnot a lot of massage therapists can
actually access it.
So it has to be accessedindirectly through other muscle groups
by someone who has got moretraining in the deeper tissues or
(20:23):
has maybe integrated withchiropractors or osteopaths or done
multiple certifications.
So I really like, like TriggerPoint therapy is one of my go tos
when we talk about quarter horses.
I work with a lot of barrelhorses and cutting horses specifically
in that breed.
Trigger point is one of my favorites.
Sports massage is another one.
(20:43):
But that doesn't necessarilygo deep enough when you're talking
hind end engagement, in my opinion.
Are there any exercises thatriders can do that are pretty simple
that could help with this core muscle?
Absolutely.
So exercises and stretches.
So exercises would be a lot oftransition and interval training.
(21:06):
So I'm a big fan of like a hit workout.
So we all know quarter horsesare sprinters by nature, so why don't
we use that?
Right, let's get them to go forward.
So I like a lope before I likea jog.
Let's get them stretched outand then kind of engaging from that
hind.
I like, you know, to do ground poles.
I like to do transitions fromhalt to lope and back again.
(21:28):
Backups are great also.
You really want them to getlike tucked under and lifted in that
back.
And then the other thing Iwould say is if we're going to do
a stretch, I'm not the bestadvocate for like one of those rear
end stretches because a lot ofthese quarter horses can get a posterior
pelvis from all that backingup and stuff that they do, which
(21:50):
is when the pelvis kind oftucks back and their hucks and hams,
hamstrings go underneath them.
So if you're going to do thatstretch, it kind of encourages that.
What I like to do is a belly lift.
So you're going to place onehand under the sternum, one hand
under the belly, and you'regoing to kind of squat, press them
gently up and engage that backand that core right before you get
(22:11):
on.
You only have to do it onceand it's like a plank instead of
a sit up.
I feel like I used to dosomething like that with my quarter
horse where I'd kind of pushup because I read it that that brings
me into my next question.
How, what do you recommend for people?
Like, are there materialspeople can read to learn about these
terms and places on thehorse's body?
Yeah.
So I always have to say as aprofessional, you want to be really
(22:34):
careful kind of what videosyou're following.
Even when I first started, Iused to recommend a lot of carrot
stretches for people.
And then I realized that a lotof people didn't know enough and
were doing them incorrectly.
So you want to be careful whoyou follow.
But if you go on, well, I'mjust going to do a shameless plug
here for my book BodyConditioning for the Horse and Rider.
(22:55):
There's a lot of like horseowner friendly stretches and exercises
you can do regardless of the breed.
But you can, you can followcertain bodyworkers or certain chiropractors
and see what they recommend.
So you're going to want tocheck and make sure that person is
accredited, is licensed and insured.
Because just because you takea, you know, you watch a YouTube
(23:17):
video doesn't mean you can dothe stretch.
So you want to make sure thatsomeone who's actually showing you
how to do it really knowstheir stuff and has the training.
So I always say that with likean air of caution.
Everything that I show myclients, I also always say like let's
double check and make surewe're doing it correctly from time
to time and just check in.
But you can look online,there's books you can read.
(23:37):
I think that the best teacherthough is the horse.
And so try experiment, do acouple of things and see what works
best for you.
Because sometimes it'ssomething that no one's ever thought
of.
So going back to thesestretches, and I know you had mentioned
some hip issues that you seein the quarter horse due to that
(24:01):
badonk.
No, from throwing it back andeverything, what are some other common
issues that you see, you know,working with the quarter horses.
I know you mentioned yourclients are cutting and raining.
What are, what are some issuesthat you commonly see working with?
I know in my experience, I diddressage with my quarter horse and
(24:21):
bless his heart, he had thestiffest neck you've ever seen.
Our 20 meter circles were a joke.
Well, that's because they havea short, thick neck.
Right, exactly.
So, I mean, the way an animalis built obviously varies and I think
that discipline has a hugeimpact on how they can move.
(24:43):
And I'm going to throw anotherwrench in there and say in addition
to discipline, the tack they use.
Right.
So there is different tack perdiscipline and each discipline uses
different body parts.
Right.
And is kind of focused on those.
So what I might see in like asorting or a reigning horse is a
lot of, you know, that hindend, a lot of pressure on the hocks
(25:06):
and the, you know, the tendonsand flexors in the hind end.
But in a barrel horse, I mightsee more rib issues, I might see
more pole issues, I might seemore neck issues.
And so it really depends, buttack is going to be a super important
thing too because not all fullquarter horse bars fit all quarter
horses.
(25:26):
And I think that's reallyimportant to note and get out there
because we've come a long waywhen it comes to tack for our animals.
But not all quarter horses arebuilt exactly the same.
They have tendencies wherethey've got these big shoulders and
these big badonkadonks, but,but really short backs.
And most western saddles are22 inches treed, and that is way
(25:48):
too long for most quarterhorses that are, you know, modernly
built.
So we have to kind of thinkabout how do we open up those shoulders,
how do we open up that hindend to give them that mobility so
we can get that core engagedand have them lift the rider move
correctly.
So it's really interesting tosee from discipline to discipline
just how the saddles fit.
(26:10):
So in Western dressage, you'regoing to get a more rounded skirt.
You're going to get somethingthat's a little shorter than, say,
a ranch ranch saddle or aroping saddle.
Right.
And those are a lot longer.
And they might block that.
That curve of the spine, andthey might be able to just pivot.
Right.
Kind of like a.
(26:30):
Like a boat on the water, asopposed to wrapping around like a
barrel horse would need to.
Right.
So it's very interesting tosee the differences from, say, like
a ranch horse to a barrelhorse to a cutting horse, even though
they're all quarter horses.
This is all really greatinformation, Heather.
Where can folks go to find you?
(26:51):
So the best way to find me ison my website, animalbodywork.com
or on Instagram and Facebookat animal bodywork nj.
And just to note, guys, I hadforgotten, in Heather's illustrious
introduction, she's also asaddle fitter, and so she brings
so much knowledge andexperience to the table.
(27:13):
Heather, before we wrap, wealways ask our guests one story.
And we'll give you a bit of acaveat, since I know your horses
are not quarter horses, but we would.
Sorry, guys.
You know, it's okay.
Even though we're the quarterhorse podcast, we don't.
Well, I have a paint cross.
I don't know if that counts.
Yeah, we'll count that.
I like it.
Okay, well, yeah, count that.
It's April Fools.
(27:34):
When we're recording, we coulddo whatever we want.
So we always ask our guests toshare a quirky horse story, a funny
quirk your horse has or afavorite show story, something that
happened at a competition thatyou'll never forget.
Do you have a funny story to share?
How to limit it to just one?
I know that's the hard part.
(27:56):
Problem.
Okay, so I'm gonna keep it toOdin, who's my little paint cross.
So he has a mysterious background.
We're not really sure where hecame from, but we were told he's
great on the trails.
He was trained in westerndressage, so I decided to take him
to a hunter pace.
And I'm a timid writer forthose of you who don't know me.
And I was like, well, he's atrail master.
(28:17):
This is going to be totes fine.
Right?
So we go out, and I was toldhe was a little dominant.
So we're just like, let's justwalk and kind of, you know, stay
at the back of the pack.
Well, we had multiple groupsfall, you know, following and passing
us and whooping it up, whichyou're not really supposed to do
on a hunter pace.
And he did pretty good atfirst, and then he bolted, and then
(28:40):
that was fine.
And then he decided to startgrunting like.
Like a.
And he's grunting, and then hestarts bucking and bolting.
And then he decides he's goingto try to drop his shoulder, buck
and bolt.
And so no matter what, wecouldn't calm him down.
He decided he was ready to bethe top dog of that hunter pace.
(29:01):
So this little girl had to hopoff and walk him back.
And I'll tell you, we got backto the finish line, we signed out.
I had to disqualify with mybig girl pants on.
And he really did not likeletting other horses finish ahead
of him.
I mean, that horse wanted togo forward, and we were just.
We decided we weren't theright pair for that.
(29:24):
So, anyway, my daughter is nowjumping him in the jumpers.
Well, it sounds like thejumpers might be more his speed pun.
Very much intended.
Very much intended.
He is.
He's a little dynamo.
He has the energizers arebunny all written all over him.
And I'm too tired to ride ahorse like that, so I love it.
(29:45):
Same.
I just want a dopey doe downthe trail like I.
That's exactly it.
Oh, my gosh.
Well, Heather, always a pleasure.
Thank you for coming on theshow today.
And, folks, don't forget to gocheck out Heather and Natalie's podcast,
Adulting with Horses, also onthe Horse Radio Network.
It's hysterical.
You won't regret it.
Thank you.
Thank you guys so much.
(30:07):
Thanks so much for tuning into the quarter horse podcast on Horses
in the Morning.
Be sure to, like, subscribeand tell your friends all about the
world's favorite breed of horse.
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