April 29, 2025 • 27 mins
Navigating workplace anxiety during turbulent times requires leaders who understand both the science behind effective communication and the practical steps needed to create psychological safety. Kirsten I’Anson, Vice President of People and Culture at Community Savings Credit Union, delivers masterful insights on leadership approaches that calm rather than inflame tensions during political and economic instability.
Kirsten advocates for a leadership style that acknowledges societal anxieties while providing confidence through decisive action. Drawing from her experiences during the pandemic, she shares how promoting mental health benefits led to a remarkable 73% increase in usage, creating an environment where employees felt empowered to discuss previously taboo topics. By bringing in clinical counselors and normalizing therapeutic support, Community Savings built a culture that genuinely values mental wellbeing beyond superficial initiatives.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when exploring whether leaders should express political views at work. Kirsten makes a compelling case that organizations with clear social purposes can thoughtfully engage with political issues, provided they've been transparent about their values during recruitment. This approach has allowed Community Savings to attract team members whose personal values align with their mission to unite working people and build a just world.
Perhaps most valuable is Kirsten's discussion of trauma-informed workplaces. With research showing 60-70% of adults have experienced traumatic events, she argues that addressing trauma isn't just compassionate—it's pragmatic business strategy that reduces absenteeism while increasing productivity and workplace pride. Simple changes like renaming "sick days" to "wellness days" have profoundly impacted their culture, creating an environment where employees freely discuss mental health without stigma.
Ready to bring more boldness to your HR practices? Connect with Kirsten on LinkedIn to exchange ideas about innovative approaches to workplace wellbeing and psychological safety. Her practical wisdom proves that thoughtful, values-driven leadership delivers results for both people and organizations during uncertain times.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's
most downloaded and sharedpodcasts designed for HR pros,
talent execs, tech enthusiastsand business leaders.
For hundreds more episodes andwhat's new in the world of work,
subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
hrgazettecom and visithrgazettecom.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show.
Hello listeners, this is yourhost today, bill Bannam, and
joining me in this episode isKirsten Ironson, vice President
of People and Culture over atCommunity Savings Credit Union.
Kirsten says she is privilegedthat her work also speaks to her
(00:49):
personal passions understandingwhat makes humans tick, getting
deep and meaningful aboutmental wellness and creating an
environment that other peoplewant to be a part of.
Kirsten began her career atcommunity savings building their
learning initiative communityCommunity Savings University,
and has recently been recognisedby BC Business for delivering
(01:10):
an award-winning wellnessprogramme.
Hey, kirsten, how are you doing?
Welcome to the show today.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Hi Bill, I'm very good, thank you.
I'm calling from BritishColumbia, so it's exciting to
hear another Brit.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yes, both proud Canadians, but, as you can tell,
neither of us were born there.
Why don't you fill ourlisteners in?
Why don't you take a couple ofminutes and tell them a bit
about yourself, your background,how you ended up moving over to
BC, all about your career?
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I'm currently obviously working in an HR role,
but that wasn't my background.
I didn't come from a kind oftraditional HR or come in
through a traditional HR route.
After university I spent sometime wanting to do good, joining
a charity and doing a bit offundraising, and then I actually
went into the world of sales,something that I never wanted to
(02:01):
do, never thought I would do,but something that I actually
really enjoyed.
And I'll tell you, I enjoyed itbecause of the company, the
organisation that I was a partof.
I really felt like we were kindof the centre of the universe.
I worked for Mars, theconfectionery company, and the
culture there was so good that Ijust absolutely loved it.
(02:24):
But I worked too hard and Ithought, right, I need to move
country.
I'll probably never leave theorganisation, otherwise I'm
going to do something reallyextreme.
I'm going to move country.
And then I thought, right, I'mactually not going to have a
career, I'm going to have a job.
So I did that for a couple ofyears.
I had what I'd call a job whereI was able to do other things
(02:47):
like sports in my free time, abit of volunteering work as well
, and then I found myself backin a career and that was one
here at Community Savings I wasable to draw on what I'd done in
learning and development andthen that kind of escalated,
snowballed into the role that Ihave here today, and it's
(03:08):
another organization where theculture is key to my work and to
the people that work at theorganization, and that was
always very exciting for me andstill is today.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat
Podcast.
If you enjoy the audio contentwe produce, you'll love our
articles on the HR Gazette.
Learn more at hrgazettecom.
And now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Very good.
So you moved over to Canadaabout 13 years ago, I think you
mentioned yes.
My next question for you thenis why is Canada the best
country in the world?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
because it will never be the 51st state or started
off political.
I'm also, you know, a proudBrit and I also really enjoyed
my life, enjoyed my life thereas well.
But Canada is a beautifulcountry.
Um, it, it's a very safefeeling place to be in so many
(04:15):
regards.
You know, I can walk around atnight and, well, I may feel like
I'll be attacked by bears,because they genuinely do roam
the navy birds, but, um, from ahuman perspective, it does feel
like I'll be attacked by bearsbecause they genuinely do roam
the navy bird, but, um, from ahuman perspective, it does feel
like a very safe place to be, abeautiful place to bring up kids
.
Um, you've got, you know, natureis your playground in your
backyard.
We're, you know, up the road.
(04:35):
We've got mountains, localmountains that I can access,
them, we can access to go nightskiing and then, not too far
down the road, there's some,some stunning beaches that we
can paddle in as well.
So, yeah, really is nature'splayground out here?
It's, it's a beautiful part ofthe world I love bc so much.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
You and I were chatting before we hit record
today.
I was telling you that I wasthat close to moving there a few
years ago, and then lifehappened and things changed.
Um, uh, I enjoy camping andhiking and whatnot.
My idea of camping in britishcolumbia was sleeping in a car,
though because of those bearsthat you mentioned, um, I'm too
much of a scaredy brit toactually sleeping in a tent I
(05:18):
have been laughed at forsleeping in a tent with a can of
bear spray.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Laughed at, ridiculed by canad Canadians.
But I've done it and I would doit again you gotta stay safe,
okay.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
So we are living in pretty scary times, pretty
tumultuous times.
There's lots going on.
We are recording this episodein early April and it seems like
everything's going a bit crazy.
The markets seem to be crashing, lots of uncertainty happening
and, as part of my homeworkahead of our conversation today,
I was going over your LinkedInprofile and looking at some of
(05:56):
your recent LinkedIn posts, andin one of them you wrote the
following a unifying socialpurpose coupled with strong
leadership offers an effectiveantidote to the anxiety
experienced by a workforce amidpolitical and economic
instability.
I find it fascinating howleaders can inspire, calm and
galvanize action simply byunderstanding the science behind
(06:19):
how their words impact others.
Firstly, can I say that you area wordsmith.
Their words impact others.
Firstly, can I say that you area wordsmith.
Secondly, my question is whatdid you mean by that, and what
role does leadership play inaddressing geopolitical tensions
?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, it's such an interesting time to be in
leadership.
It's an interesting time to bein the world and at times it can
be a very scary one, and asleaders, we need to recognise
that.
We feel that and our, asleaders, we need to recognize
that we feel that and our teamsare certainly going to feel that
as well.
So let's not ignore it.
Ignoring it's not going to makeit go away.
You know, we know.
All the research shows thatsociety skyrockets in time of
(06:58):
political tension, like, evenlike just in the lead up to the
elections, and that we also knowimpacts productivity in the way
people feel and operate.
Let's not ignore it, let's faceinto it because, let's be
honest, everyone's a little bitfrightened or is in the kind of
(07:19):
doom scrolling mode of lookingat what's happening next, what's
going to impact us next, and itcan be scary, it really can be.
So I would say, firstly,leaders need to be
socio-politically astute.
So you really need to have agood grasp on what's going on in
the world and constantly lookat it with a lens on how is that
(07:40):
going to impact our teams.
You need to address your teams,address them in a way that lets
your team know we get theconcern as well, but we're not
worried.
We've been through tumultuoustimes before.
We've handled it before.
We're going to do it again.
So that's the first thingactually talking about it,
addressing it with the team.
(08:00):
So we understand that and youknow and reference things that
you've been through before 've.
No, you know, there's no doubtthat everyone's gone through
some really difficult stuff intheir personal lives, in their
work life, and just kind of drawon that to give people that
sense of, yeah, you're right, wehave been through things that
felt hugely scary before andwe're okay, we came through just
(08:22):
fine, um, so so it's thatacknowledgement and then also
tangible decision making.
So you want a leadership teamto act quickly, not erratically,
but you want to see themgalvanize quickly when you've
got a problem on the table.
So, um, I'm going to quicklyhop back to the pandemic.
(08:44):
But we knew that anxiety rosethroughout our team and globally
through society.
We had this kind of collectiveanxiety there and for us that
was a really good opportunityfor us to talk about our
benefits.
So that sounds very boring, butactually it's not at all.
So we have really decent mentalhealth benefits up to $2,000 a
(09:06):
year to spend on mental healthprofessionals and it's all very
well having that and we knowlots of organisations don't want
people to tap into that toomuch because your premiums go up
.
But we wanted our premiums togo up because we knew ultimately
that would benefit us and ourteam.
So we brought in someregistered clinical counsellors.
We brought in a few differentones actually to give people a
(09:28):
sense of okay, these are thedifferent kind of humans that I
may be interacting with andsaying you don't just have to
use them in in times of what youmight consider crisis.
You can use them to talk aboutthings that are bugging you.
It can be your inability tomanage your time, but use those
benefits that you've got.
(09:48):
You've got someone there tospeak to that can support you
without judgment.
It's not embarrassing to usethem.
In fact, we would really reallylike that you used them and for
us, we saw a 73% increase inthe usage of our mental health
coverage during that time.
We also had people talkingabout how enabled they felt to
(10:12):
use them, so how empowered theyfelt to use them, and we had
someone talking about traumathat had happened to them in
their childhood and how it hadresurfaced because of something
that happened, you know,politically for her and she
actually had to take oh I'vesaid she, she won't mind, she
had to take an extended periodof time off to look after her
(10:37):
mental health and she came backand talked to the whole
organization about it and saidthat she felt very supported by
our team in doing that and forus that's so meaningful and that
builds confidence, felt verysupported by our team in doing
that and for us that's someaningful and that builds
confidence in the rest of theteam to also use those benefits.
So it's those kind of tangibleleadership actions that I
believe give your team theconfidence that we know what
(10:59):
we're doing, that we know we'llbe OK and that they're going to
be supported by us.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
This episode of the HR Chat Podcast is supported by
Nebula Academy, a technologyindustry-focused workforce
accelerator that offers learningprograms to prepare individuals
for successful careers.
Our approach is centered aroundcognitive neuroscience research
, combining the latest researchand modern learning methods to
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(11:26):
experiences.
Our programs enable individualsto achieve career readiness and
immediate impact in theirchosen field.
So this is a podcast for HRpeople.
Learn more at nebulaacademycom.
Thanks, and now back to the HRChat Show.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
So this is a podcast for HR people.
I generally try and keep awayfrom sharing my political views
on this pod.
Sometimes I'm very tempted it'sbeen the odd comment for me I
just want to scream certainthings, but that's not my job.
Job, I'm picking up from youthat you've got certain views.
(12:14):
Um follow-up question for youis it okay for leaders to share
political views in the workplacesometimes?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
oh, I love that question so much, bill.
I think yes, um, but it doesdepend contextually on your
organisation.
I wouldn't choose to work foran organisation whose values I
didn't believe in.
I mean, that feels like it goeswithout saying, but that's so,
so important to us.
It's important in the way thatwe recruit and actually it's
(12:46):
been a game changer in the waythat we recruit.
So in our job postings and ifyou go and have a look on any of
ours here at community savings,we'll always talk about our
social purpose.
We exist to unite workingpeople to build a just world,
and we used to say we've changedit.
But we used to say this speaksto a core level, read on, and
(13:07):
what we're saying is and if itdoesn't, then this is not the
place for you, you know, and bydoing that we've attracted
people whose values do alignwith ours.
So all that to say yes, onceyou do that, you've got the
go-ahead to make political.
To make political likestatements, because you've
(13:27):
already announced who you areand where you stand, and we are
heavily affiliated with thelabour movement over here, with
a largely unionised credit union, so we're kind of political by
nature.
There are obviously somematters that we will have very
strong opinions about asindividuals that we may be more
tactful about in the workplace,but we absolutely are not afraid
(13:49):
of making political statements.
So, actually, something thatwe're doing at the moment we're
renovating one of our branches.
We're a credit union and one ofour branches needs an overhaul
and we very quickly integratedinto our specs that we're going
to be prioritizing Canadianworkers, companies and Canadian
products in the use of thebuilding work that we'll be
(14:12):
doing.
So our CEO recently talkedabout that.
In fact, on Friday he talkedabout that and said, yeah, we
are, we are, we've got a buyCanadian mandate, the board
support it and this is wayforward and you you can hear a
virtual cheer from the team whoreally stand behind that as well
.
So you know, where appropriateand if it aligns with the values
(14:33):
of your organisation,absolutely be political
Something.
We've got coming up thistogether for a day to come in
person and do this DEI workshop,which really, you know, shows
(14:53):
our commitment to it.
Even though we have no burningfires internally on that topic,
we still know that there'salways work to be done there and
the education on that is justso, so important.
Before I had actually, you know,finalised all the details.
There was a lot of talk ofother big institutions and
(15:15):
banking institutions who wereretracting their DEI initiatives
and so I was like, right, I'm Ido feel so compelled to make a
statement about this.
So I did put a simple messageon our internal kind of
communication platform saying wehave, whilst other
organisations are retreatingfrom DEI practices, just so, you
(15:38):
know, we've got a DEI workshopcoming up and lots of our team
referenced that and you knowthere were lots of thumbs up and
some really positive commentsaround that and it felt like the
right thing to do at the time.
You know it was quite anemotional response for me, but
it got a good emotional responsefrom our team.
And as leaders, we are here toevoke or control emotional
(16:00):
responses.
Control not in a kind of bigbrother way, but in a calming
way.
And you know you kind ofreferenced what I'd talked about
there on LinkedIn and I wrote abit of an article about it,
because there really is ascience and a biology behind
what we do as leaders.
So when we're speaking to ateam, we can you know, we can
(16:22):
invoke panic, we can invoke fear.
We can also invoke calm.
You know we can calm people'samygdalas, and when we really
break it down like that, I thinkit's good for leaders to do
that.
Ok, what is going to calm ourteam?
So, yes, you can say the rightthings and then you've got to
back that up with tangibleactions and maneuver into a plan
(16:44):
that instills confidence andshows that we've got this.
We've got this as a team.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
We know what we're doing next okay, let's talk a
bit more about the dei side ofthings for a moment.
Um, just recently actually, Irecorded a bunch of
conversations with some bighitters around the the rollback.
Uh, that's coming out soon, ormaybe it's already out by the
time this episode is released.
Uh, listeners so uh, regularlisteners of this show will know
that I spend most of my timethese days in the uk.
(17:12):
Uh, the company's still basedin beautiful toronto, canada.
Um, one thing that'sinteresting about being in the
uk they don't call it dei, theycall it edi and um, the e stands
for equality, in the it doesn'tstand for equity.
Can you let's play devil'sadvocate here Can you Give me
(17:35):
your thoughts on why some peoplein North America have got an
issue with that E, that equity?
Why is that so polemic?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Oh yeah, they do, don't they?
I'm someone who actually gets alittle bit frustrated by the
semantics argument there.
I think you know, ultimatelywe're all aiming for the same
thing, we're all striving forthe same thing and I don't love
to waste energy looking at thesemantics.
I like to spend my energygetting into action.
I don't mind if you call itequity or if you want to refer
(18:06):
to equality.
I understand the differencebetween the two.
I discuss it a lot.
Actually, one of my sisters whospecializes in EDI I've told
you before, but she works for UNwomen and they do a lot of work
around this and maybe I'm notgoing to be that popular in
saying this, but you know, Idon't.
I don't think any of us shouldwaste our time in worrying about
(18:27):
which one is correct, but dothe things that we all know are
going to make the biggestdifference, to make people feel
comfortable.
We can be good people, you know.
Investing in EDI, dei, howeveryou want to call it, don't
completely relabel it.
It's something I would say,don't you know?
You don't want people to thinkyou're embarrassed or don't
agree with it.
You're making a statement ifyou do that.
(18:48):
But the most important thing isthat we're educating, we're
getting those conversations andwe're bringing psychological
safety to the workplace.
There's a real, real pragmaticelement to EDIDI as far as I'm
concerned, and that is we.
You know, for us here at theCredit Union we serve so many
(19:08):
different members who come fromso many different cultures, so
it just doesn't make sense tohave a team that aren't diverse
and reflective of thecommunities that we're serving.
So in a way, things have beenvery easy for us.
I mean, we got our act togetherin 1944, a group of working
people who didn't like the waythat big banks were treating
(19:29):
them and said we're going to dothis differently, we're going to
look after working people.
And so for me and for our teamit's been a no-brainer to employ
people and recruit for peoplewho really care about the
communities that you serve, andso diversity becomes a very
natural part of the equationthere.
So for us, I'd say it's notsomething that we've been.
(19:49):
I'd say we've not been thatintentional about it, but we
have and we haven't.
It's happened organicallybecause of the values that we
have and because of our socialpurpose mandate and keeping that
at the fore.
That said, I still want toinvest in it and for a few
reasons.
I want to invest in DEIinitiatives because it is the
(20:11):
right thing to do right now.
It is, you know, we're making apolitical statement as well,
but there's some foundationalparts of EDI that I really feel
that experts need to come in andeducate us on, and I know
there's going to be a lot that Ilearn as well, and those
educators are going to care waymore than I do about the
(20:33):
semantics and the use of equityrather than equality.
You know I'd say equity is alittle bit more popular at the
moment, and I totally understandwhy, but I think you know
either term, used in the fashionthat it was intended, is
looking to do the right thing.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Let's change tack now , although it's kind of related
actually to what we were talkingabout before.
Uh, and let's talk about, intrauma, trauma, informed
workplaces, kristin, if youdon't mind.
Um, so I very recently Irecorded a mini series with dr
bill howard, who's based out ofottawa.
Uh writes for the global mail.
Um, lots of our canadianlisteners listeners will be
(21:13):
familiar with dr bill um, andthat was focused on a new
program that he had called beingCrisis Ready.
In your opinion, why dotrauma-informed workplaces
matter and how can companiesimplement?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
meaningful mental health policies.
It matters because trauma iswidespread.
It's not something that justhappens to a few people, and I
think this is a preconceivednotion that is being dispelled
over time.
But there's more work to bedone there, so I'm going to
throw a bit of a stat out there.
So the National Institute ofMental Health found 60 to 70% of
(21:51):
adults reported havingexperienced at least one
traumatic event in their lives,and there's so much more data
that you can have a have a lookat see that really, trauma
impacts more people than lessmany.
Many people may not know thatthey are impacted by trauma, but
the research shows that itimpacts most of us.
(22:12):
So there's therefore alikelihood that a significant
number of the people in ourteams will be impacted as well,
and if we don't acknowledge thisand educate it, we risk
re-traumatising folks, losingtrust within our workforce and
not having a psychologicallysafe workplace.
(22:32):
And again, for those who thinkthat's, you know, warm and
fluffy, there's also a verypragmatic reason to ensuring
that your workplace ispsychologically safe.
It's that you're going to getless absenteeism.
You're going to increaseproductivity.
You'll also increase the prideand joy that people feel about
coming to work and a mandate Iwas given when I joined was you
(22:56):
only have one job to do.
It's to make people feel proudto come to work and that's, you
know that's a really significantpart of it.
People feel proud and I talkedabout that example before.
You know, someone felt veryproud to be part of a workplace
where they knew that we dothings like renaming sick days
(23:16):
to wellness days or health daysso that people can use that for
for mental wellness and it's notstigmatized.
They don't have to come andtell us why they'll use it.
When we did this, there were afew people who said all people
are going to abuse it.
They're honestly a handful ofpeople and our ceo is like no,
they're not, they never havedone.
(23:36):
You know we really trust ourworkforce and and and it's true
they no one's abused it.
The numbers haven't skyrocketed.
But people will say I'm takinga health day and feel really
comfortable in doing so andwe've just had so much more
dialogue around.
You know people's mental healthand how they're feeling, and
people casually mentioning youknow that they're using
(23:59):
therapists or or talking aboutchildhood trauma.
So yet for me it's not just anice, warm and fluffy thing to
do.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
It really is a pragmatic, very sensible thing
to do one of the silver liningsfrom the pandemic was what you
just explained there um peoplefeel more comfortable now
sharing, sharing their ownmental health journeys where
they're at, you know.
I don't think it was like thatbefore.
Um, I'm also dyslexic, um, orneuro spicy, as my good friend
(24:31):
would say.
This is something else which afew years ago people weren't
really comfortable talking about, and I just, I just want to
celebrate that with you.
I don't really have a follow-upquestion there, I just I just
think that's wonderful.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
I'm with you.
I want to celebrate that, bill,I love that and in fact, I've
tried to insert into myconversations like, oh yeah, and
I spoke to my therapist aboutthis and I think, particularly
being a Brit who felt like thatwas something that we couldn't
talk about.
You know, maybe more an arguedless, I know, thankfully, um,
it's just such a mark differentin in the kind of general
(25:06):
dialogue that we have and longmay it continue.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
One more question for you before we wrap up for today
, and that is how can ourlisteners connect with you?
So is that linkedin?
Is that email address?
Are you super cool?
I'm all over tiktok andinstagram and places.
And, of course, how can ourlisteners connect with you?
So is that linkedin?
Is that email address?
Are you super cool?
I'm all over tiktok andinstagram and places.
And, of course, how can theylearn more about all the things
happening over at communitysavings credit union?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
ah, thanks for asking , bill.
Um, I'm certainly not cool, soI'm not on tiktok.
Um, I am on instagram.
Um, linkedin is the best way tocontact me.
I'd love anyone to connect,even if it's just to talk about
some of these issues.
If you want to talk to me about, you know, exciting ideas on
what you've been able to do.
Actually, that it's just mademe think we we actually brought
(25:52):
in first-line responders to dosome empathetic listening
training, so that's got a reallylovely link to some of the
trauma-informed care practicesthat I think could be really
exciting in the workplace.
So, yeah, get in touch with me.
I'd love to hear about yourweird and wonderful ideas.
I think what you know, boldnessis the way forward when it
comes to HR practices.
(26:12):
So a good element of neurospicy ideas.
Send them my way um and andpragmatic output.
So, yeah, I'd love to hear fromyou.
You can email me at k ironson,at commsavingscom or linkedin.
It's a great place to contactme excellent.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Uh, there you go, listeners.
So I think what kirsten justdid there was she invited you to
connect with her and to sendher weird and wonderful messages
.
I think is what she said.
So good luck with that, Kirsten.
And that just leads me to saylet me know how that goes.
That just leads me to say fortoday, thank you very much for
being my guest.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Thank you very much for having me, Bill.
It's a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And listeners as always.
Until next time, happy workingpleasure and listeners as always
.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Until next time, happy working.
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Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show.
Hello listeners, this is yourhost today, bill Bannam, and
joining me in this episode isKirsten Ironson, vice President
of People and Culture over atCommunity Savings Credit Union.
Kirsten says she is privilegedthat her work also speaks to her
(00:49):
personal passions understandingwhat makes humans tick, getting
deep and meaningful aboutmental wellness and creating an
environment that other peoplewant to be a part of.
Kirsten began her career atcommunity savings building their
learning initiative communityCommunity Savings University,
and has recently been recognisedby BC Business for delivering
(01:10):
an award-winning wellnessprogramme.
Hey, kirsten, how are you doing?
Welcome to the show today.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Hi Bill, I'm very good, thank you.
I'm calling from BritishColumbia, so it's exciting to
hear another Brit.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yes, both proud Canadians, but, as you can tell,
neither of us were born there.
Why don't you fill ourlisteners in?
Why don't you take a couple ofminutes and tell them a bit
about yourself, your background,how you ended up moving over to
BC, all about your career?
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I'm currently obviously working in an HR role,
but that wasn't my background.
I didn't come from a kind oftraditional HR or come in
through a traditional HR route.
After university I spent sometime wanting to do good, joining
a charity and doing a bit offundraising, and then I actually
went into the world of sales,something that I never wanted to
(02:01):
do, never thought I would do,but something that I actually
really enjoyed.
And I'll tell you, I enjoyed itbecause of the company, the
organisation that I was a partof.
I really felt like we were kindof the centre of the universe.
I worked for Mars, theconfectionery company, and the
culture there was so good that Ijust absolutely loved it.
(02:24):
But I worked too hard and Ithought, right, I need to move
country.
I'll probably never leave theorganisation, otherwise I'm
going to do something reallyextreme.
I'm going to move country.
And then I thought, right, I'mactually not going to have a
career, I'm going to have a job.
So I did that for a couple ofyears.
I had what I'd call a job whereI was able to do other things
(02:47):
like sports in my free time, abit of volunteering work as well
, and then I found myself backin a career and that was one
here at Community Savings I wasable to draw on what I'd done in
learning and development andthen that kind of escalated,
snowballed into the role that Ihave here today, and it's
(03:08):
another organization where theculture is key to my work and to
the people that work at theorganization, and that was
always very exciting for me andstill is today.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat
Podcast.
If you enjoy the audio contentwe produce, you'll love our
articles on the HR Gazette.
Learn more at hrgazettecom.
And now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Very good.
So you moved over to Canadaabout 13 years ago, I think you
mentioned yes.
My next question for you thenis why is Canada the best
country in the world?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
because it will never be the 51st state or started
off political.
I'm also, you know, a proudBrit and I also really enjoyed
my life, enjoyed my life thereas well.
But Canada is a beautifulcountry.
Um, it, it's a very safefeeling place to be in so many
(04:15):
regards.
You know, I can walk around atnight and, well, I may feel like
I'll be attacked by bears,because they genuinely do roam
the navy birds, but, um, from ahuman perspective, it does feel
like I'll be attacked by bearsbecause they genuinely do roam
the navy bird, but, um, from ahuman perspective, it does feel
like a very safe place to be, abeautiful place to bring up kids
.
Um, you've got, you know, natureis your playground in your
backyard.
We're, you know, up the road.
(04:35):
We've got mountains, localmountains that I can access,
them, we can access to go nightskiing and then, not too far
down the road, there's some,some stunning beaches that we
can paddle in as well.
So, yeah, really is nature'splayground out here?
It's, it's a beautiful part ofthe world I love bc so much.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
You and I were chatting before we hit record
today.
I was telling you that I wasthat close to moving there a few
years ago, and then lifehappened and things changed.
Um, uh, I enjoy camping andhiking and whatnot.
My idea of camping in britishcolumbia was sleeping in a car,
though because of those bearsthat you mentioned, um, I'm too
much of a scaredy brit toactually sleeping in a tent I
(05:18):
have been laughed at forsleeping in a tent with a can of
bear spray.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Laughed at, ridiculed by canad Canadians.
But I've done it and I would doit again you gotta stay safe,
okay.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
So we are living in pretty scary times, pretty
tumultuous times.
There's lots going on.
We are recording this episodein early April and it seems like
everything's going a bit crazy.
The markets seem to be crashing, lots of uncertainty happening
and, as part of my homeworkahead of our conversation today,
I was going over your LinkedInprofile and looking at some of
(05:56):
your recent LinkedIn posts, andin one of them you wrote the
following a unifying socialpurpose coupled with strong
leadership offers an effectiveantidote to the anxiety
experienced by a workforce amidpolitical and economic
instability.
I find it fascinating howleaders can inspire, calm and
galvanize action simply byunderstanding the science behind
(06:19):
how their words impact others.
Firstly, can I say that you area wordsmith.
Their words impact others.
Firstly, can I say that you area wordsmith.
Secondly, my question is whatdid you mean by that, and what
role does leadership play inaddressing geopolitical tensions
?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, it's such an interesting time to be in
leadership.
It's an interesting time to bein the world and at times it can
be a very scary one, and asleaders, we need to recognise
that.
We feel that and our, asleaders, we need to recognize
that we feel that and our teamsare certainly going to feel that
as well.
So let's not ignore it.
Ignoring it's not going to makeit go away.
You know, we know.
All the research shows thatsociety skyrockets in time of
(06:58):
political tension, like, evenlike just in the lead up to the
elections, and that we also knowimpacts productivity in the way
people feel and operate.
Let's not ignore it, let's faceinto it because, let's be
honest, everyone's a little bitfrightened or is in the kind of
(07:19):
doom scrolling mode of lookingat what's happening next, what's
going to impact us next, and itcan be scary, it really can be.
So I would say, firstly,leaders need to be
socio-politically astute.
So you really need to have agood grasp on what's going on in
the world and constantly lookat it with a lens on how is that
(07:40):
going to impact our teams.
You need to address your teams,address them in a way that lets
your team know we get theconcern as well, but we're not
worried.
We've been through tumultuoustimes before.
We've handled it before.
We're going to do it again.
So that's the first thingactually talking about it,
addressing it with the team.
(08:00):
So we understand that and youknow and reference things that
you've been through before 've.
No, you know, there's no doubtthat everyone's gone through
some really difficult stuff intheir personal lives, in their
work life, and just kind of drawon that to give people that
sense of, yeah, you're right, wehave been through things that
felt hugely scary before andwe're okay, we came through just
(08:22):
fine, um, so so it's thatacknowledgement and then also
tangible decision making.
So you want a leadership teamto act quickly, not erratically,
but you want to see themgalvanize quickly when you've
got a problem on the table.
So, um, I'm going to quicklyhop back to the pandemic.
(08:44):
But we knew that anxiety rosethroughout our team and globally
through society.
We had this kind of collectiveanxiety there and for us that
was a really good opportunityfor us to talk about our
benefits.
So that sounds very boring, butactually it's not at all.
So we have really decent mentalhealth benefits up to $2,000 a
(09:06):
year to spend on mental healthprofessionals and it's all very
well having that and we knowlots of organisations don't want
people to tap into that toomuch because your premiums go up
.
But we wanted our premiums togo up because we knew ultimately
that would benefit us and ourteam.
So we brought in someregistered clinical counsellors.
We brought in a few differentones actually to give people a
(09:28):
sense of okay, these are thedifferent kind of humans that I
may be interacting with andsaying you don't just have to
use them in in times of what youmight consider crisis.
You can use them to talk aboutthings that are bugging you.
It can be your inability tomanage your time, but use those
benefits that you've got.
(09:48):
You've got someone there tospeak to that can support you
without judgment.
It's not embarrassing to usethem.
In fact, we would really reallylike that you used them and for
us, we saw a 73% increase inthe usage of our mental health
coverage during that time.
We also had people talkingabout how enabled they felt to
(10:12):
use them, so how empowered theyfelt to use them, and we had
someone talking about traumathat had happened to them in
their childhood and how it hadresurfaced because of something
that happened, you know,politically for her and she
actually had to take oh I'vesaid she, she won't mind, she
had to take an extended periodof time off to look after her
(10:37):
mental health and she came backand talked to the whole
organization about it and saidthat she felt very supported by
our team in doing that and forus that's so meaningful and that
builds confidence, felt verysupported by our team in doing
that and for us that's someaningful and that builds
confidence in the rest of theteam to also use those benefits.
So it's those kind of tangibleleadership actions that I
believe give your team theconfidence that we know what
(10:59):
we're doing, that we know we'llbe OK and that they're going to
be supported by us.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
This episode of the HR Chat Podcast is supported by
Nebula Academy, a technologyindustry-focused workforce
accelerator that offers learningprograms to prepare individuals
for successful careers.
Our approach is centered aroundcognitive neuroscience research
, combining the latest researchand modern learning methods to
create informative andpsychologically safe learning
(11:26):
experiences.
Our programs enable individualsto achieve career readiness and
immediate impact in theirchosen field.
So this is a podcast for HRpeople.
Learn more at nebulaacademycom.
Thanks, and now back to the HRChat Show.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
So this is a podcast for HR people.
I generally try and keep awayfrom sharing my political views
on this pod.
Sometimes I'm very tempted it'sbeen the odd comment for me I
just want to scream certainthings, but that's not my job.
Job, I'm picking up from youthat you've got certain views.
(12:14):
Um follow-up question for youis it okay for leaders to share
political views in the workplacesometimes?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
oh, I love that question so much, bill.
I think yes, um, but it doesdepend contextually on your
organisation.
I wouldn't choose to work foran organisation whose values I
didn't believe in.
I mean, that feels like it goeswithout saying, but that's so,
so important to us.
It's important in the way thatwe recruit and actually it's
(12:46):
been a game changer in the waythat we recruit.
So in our job postings and ifyou go and have a look on any of
ours here at community savings,we'll always talk about our
social purpose.
We exist to unite workingpeople to build a just world,
and we used to say we've changedit.
But we used to say this speaksto a core level, read on, and
(13:07):
what we're saying is and if itdoesn't, then this is not the
place for you, you know, and bydoing that we've attracted
people whose values do alignwith ours.
So all that to say yes, onceyou do that, you've got the
go-ahead to make political.
To make political likestatements, because you've
(13:27):
already announced who you areand where you stand, and we are
heavily affiliated with thelabour movement over here, with
a largely unionised credit union, so we're kind of political by
nature.
There are obviously somematters that we will have very
strong opinions about asindividuals that we may be more
tactful about in the workplace,but we absolutely are not afraid
(13:49):
of making political statements.
So, actually, something thatwe're doing at the moment we're
renovating one of our branches.
We're a credit union and one ofour branches needs an overhaul
and we very quickly integratedinto our specs that we're going
to be prioritizing Canadianworkers, companies and Canadian
products in the use of thebuilding work that we'll be
(14:12):
doing.
So our CEO recently talkedabout that.
In fact, on Friday he talkedabout that and said, yeah, we
are, we are, we've got a buyCanadian mandate, the board
support it and this is wayforward and you you can hear a
virtual cheer from the team whoreally stand behind that as well
.
So you know, where appropriateand if it aligns with the values
(14:33):
of your organisation,absolutely be political
Something.
We've got coming up thistogether for a day to come in
person and do this DEI workshop,which really, you know, shows
(14:53):
our commitment to it.
Even though we have no burningfires internally on that topic,
we still know that there'salways work to be done there and
the education on that is justso, so important.
Before I had actually, you know,finalised all the details.
There was a lot of talk ofother big institutions and
(15:15):
banking institutions who wereretracting their DEI initiatives
and so I was like, right, I'm Ido feel so compelled to make a
statement about this.
So I did put a simple messageon our internal kind of
communication platform saying wehave, whilst other
organisations are retreatingfrom DEI practices, just so, you
(15:38):
know, we've got a DEI workshopcoming up and lots of our team
referenced that and you knowthere were lots of thumbs up and
some really positive commentsaround that and it felt like the
right thing to do at the time.
You know it was quite anemotional response for me, but
it got a good emotional responsefrom our team.
And as leaders, we are here toevoke or control emotional
(16:00):
responses.
Control not in a kind of bigbrother way, but in a calming
way.
And you know you kind ofreferenced what I'd talked about
there on LinkedIn and I wrote abit of an article about it,
because there really is ascience and a biology behind
what we do as leaders.
So when we're speaking to ateam, we can you know, we can
(16:22):
invoke panic, we can invoke fear.
We can also invoke calm.
You know we can calm people'samygdalas, and when we really
break it down like that, I thinkit's good for leaders to do
that.
Ok, what is going to calm ourteam?
So, yes, you can say the rightthings and then you've got to
back that up with tangibleactions and maneuver into a plan
(16:44):
that instills confidence andshows that we've got this.
We've got this as a team.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
We know what we're doing next okay, let's talk a
bit more about the dei side ofthings for a moment.
Um, just recently actually, Irecorded a bunch of
conversations with some bighitters around the the rollback.
Uh, that's coming out soon, ormaybe it's already out by the
time this episode is released.
Uh, listeners so uh, regularlisteners of this show will know
that I spend most of my timethese days in the uk.
(17:12):
Uh, the company's still basedin beautiful toronto, canada.
Um, one thing that'sinteresting about being in the
uk they don't call it dei, theycall it edi and um, the e stands
for equality, in the it doesn'tstand for equity.
Can you let's play devil'sadvocate here Can you Give me
(17:35):
your thoughts on why some peoplein North America have got an
issue with that E, that equity?
Why is that so polemic?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Oh yeah, they do, don't they?
I'm someone who actually gets alittle bit frustrated by the
semantics argument there.
I think you know, ultimatelywe're all aiming for the same
thing, we're all striving forthe same thing and I don't love
to waste energy looking at thesemantics.
I like to spend my energygetting into action.
I don't mind if you call itequity or if you want to refer
(18:06):
to equality.
I understand the differencebetween the two.
I discuss it a lot.
Actually, one of my sisters whospecializes in EDI I've told
you before, but she works for UNwomen and they do a lot of work
around this and maybe I'm notgoing to be that popular in
saying this, but you know, Idon't.
I don't think any of us shouldwaste our time in worrying about
(18:27):
which one is correct, but dothe things that we all know are
going to make the biggestdifference, to make people feel
comfortable.
We can be good people, you know.
Investing in EDI, dei, howeveryou want to call it, don't
completely relabel it.
It's something I would say,don't you know?
You don't want people to thinkyou're embarrassed or don't
agree with it.
You're making a statement ifyou do that.
(18:48):
But the most important thing isthat we're educating, we're
getting those conversations andwe're bringing psychological
safety to the workplace.
There's a real, real pragmaticelement to EDIDI as far as I'm
concerned, and that is we.
You know, for us here at theCredit Union we serve so many
(19:08):
different members who come fromso many different cultures, so
it just doesn't make sense tohave a team that aren't diverse
and reflective of thecommunities that we're serving.
So in a way, things have beenvery easy for us.
I mean, we got our act togetherin 1944, a group of working
people who didn't like the waythat big banks were treating
(19:29):
them and said we're going to dothis differently, we're going to
look after working people.
And so for me and for our teamit's been a no-brainer to employ
people and recruit for peoplewho really care about the
communities that you serve, andso diversity becomes a very
natural part of the equationthere.
So for us, I'd say it's notsomething that we've been.
(19:49):
I'd say we've not been thatintentional about it, but we
have and we haven't.
It's happened organicallybecause of the values that we
have and because of our socialpurpose mandate and keeping that
at the fore.
That said, I still want toinvest in it and for a few
reasons.
I want to invest in DEIinitiatives because it is the
(20:11):
right thing to do right now.
It is, you know, we're making apolitical statement as well,
but there's some foundationalparts of EDI that I really feel
that experts need to come in andeducate us on, and I know
there's going to be a lot that Ilearn as well, and those
educators are going to care waymore than I do about the
(20:33):
semantics and the use of equityrather than equality.
You know I'd say equity is alittle bit more popular at the
moment, and I totally understandwhy, but I think you know
either term, used in the fashionthat it was intended, is
looking to do the right thing.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Let's change tack now , although it's kind of related
actually to what we were talkingabout before.
Uh, and let's talk about, intrauma, trauma, informed
workplaces, kristin, if youdon't mind.
Um, so I very recently Irecorded a mini series with dr
bill howard, who's based out ofottawa.
Uh writes for the global mail.
Um, lots of our canadianlisteners listeners will be
(21:13):
familiar with dr bill um, andthat was focused on a new
program that he had called beingCrisis Ready.
In your opinion, why dotrauma-informed workplaces
matter and how can companiesimplement?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
meaningful mental health policies.
It matters because trauma iswidespread.
It's not something that justhappens to a few people, and I
think this is a preconceivednotion that is being dispelled
over time.
But there's more work to bedone there, so I'm going to
throw a bit of a stat out there.
So the National Institute ofMental Health found 60 to 70% of
(21:51):
adults reported havingexperienced at least one
traumatic event in their lives,and there's so much more data
that you can have a have a lookat see that really, trauma
impacts more people than lessmany.
Many people may not know thatthey are impacted by trauma, but
the research shows that itimpacts most of us.
(22:12):
So there's therefore alikelihood that a significant
number of the people in ourteams will be impacted as well,
and if we don't acknowledge thisand educate it, we risk
re-traumatising folks, losingtrust within our workforce and
not having a psychologicallysafe workplace.
(22:32):
And again, for those who thinkthat's, you know, warm and
fluffy, there's also a verypragmatic reason to ensuring
that your workplace ispsychologically safe.
It's that you're going to getless absenteeism.
You're going to increaseproductivity.
You'll also increase the prideand joy that people feel about
coming to work and a mandate Iwas given when I joined was you
(22:56):
only have one job to do.
It's to make people feel proudto come to work and that's, you
know that's a really significantpart of it.
People feel proud and I talkedabout that example before.
You know, someone felt veryproud to be part of a workplace
where they knew that we dothings like renaming sick days
(23:16):
to wellness days or health daysso that people can use that for
for mental wellness and it's notstigmatized.
They don't have to come andtell us why they'll use it.
When we did this, there were afew people who said all people
are going to abuse it.
They're honestly a handful ofpeople and our ceo is like no,
they're not, they never havedone.
(23:36):
You know we really trust ourworkforce and and and it's true
they no one's abused it.
The numbers haven't skyrocketed.
But people will say I'm takinga health day and feel really
comfortable in doing so andwe've just had so much more
dialogue around.
You know people's mental healthand how they're feeling, and
people casually mentioning youknow that they're using
(23:59):
therapists or or talking aboutchildhood trauma.
So yet for me it's not just anice, warm and fluffy thing to
do.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
It really is a pragmatic, very sensible thing
to do one of the silver liningsfrom the pandemic was what you
just explained there um peoplefeel more comfortable now
sharing, sharing their ownmental health journeys where
they're at, you know.
I don't think it was like thatbefore.
Um, I'm also dyslexic, um, orneuro spicy, as my good friend
(24:31):
would say.
This is something else which afew years ago people weren't
really comfortable talking about, and I just, I just want to
celebrate that with you.
I don't really have a follow-upquestion there, I just I just
think that's wonderful.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
I'm with you.
I want to celebrate that, bill,I love that and in fact, I've
tried to insert into myconversations like, oh yeah, and
I spoke to my therapist aboutthis and I think, particularly
being a Brit who felt like thatwas something that we couldn't
talk about.
You know, maybe more an arguedless, I know, thankfully, um,
it's just such a mark differentin in the kind of general
(25:06):
dialogue that we have and longmay it continue.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
One more question for you before we wrap up for today
, and that is how can ourlisteners connect with you?
So is that linkedin?
Is that email address?
Are you super cool?
I'm all over tiktok andinstagram and places.
And, of course, how can ourlisteners connect with you?
So is that linkedin?
Is that email address?
Are you super cool?
I'm all over tiktok andinstagram and places.
And, of course, how can theylearn more about all the things
happening over at communitysavings credit union?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
ah, thanks for asking , bill.
Um, I'm certainly not cool, soI'm not on tiktok.
Um, I am on instagram.
Um, linkedin is the best way tocontact me.
I'd love anyone to connect,even if it's just to talk about
some of these issues.
If you want to talk to me about, you know, exciting ideas on
what you've been able to do.
Actually, that it's just mademe think we we actually brought
(25:52):
in first-line responders to dosome empathetic listening
training, so that's got a reallylovely link to some of the
trauma-informed care practicesthat I think could be really
exciting in the workplace.
So, yeah, get in touch with me.
I'd love to hear about yourweird and wonderful ideas.
I think what you know, boldnessis the way forward when it
comes to HR practices.
(26:12):
So a good element of neurospicy ideas.
Send them my way um and andpragmatic output.
So, yeah, I'd love to hear fromyou.
You can email me at k ironson,at commsavingscom or linkedin.
It's a great place to contactme excellent.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Uh, there you go, listeners.
So I think what kirsten justdid there was she invited you to
connect with her and to sendher weird and wonderful messages
.
I think is what she said.
So good luck with that, Kirsten.
And that just leads me to saylet me know how that goes.
That just leads me to say fortoday, thank you very much for
being my guest.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Thank you very much for having me, Bill.
It's a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And listeners as always.
Until next time, happy workingpleasure and listeners as always
.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Until next time, happy working.
Thanks for listening to the HRChat Show.
If you enjoyed this episode,why not subscribe and listen to
some of the hundreds of episodespublished by HR Gazette and
remember for what's new in theworld of work?
Subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
HRGazettecom.
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