June 25, 2025 • 19 mins
Your next hire could be a deepfake. Identity fraud in employment has exploded, with a 30% increase in 2025 alone and experts predicting one in four candidates will use some form of deepfake technology by 2028. This isn't just resume padding—it's a sophisticated attack on your organization.
Joelle Smith, President of First Advantage Corporation, reveals how the convergence of massive data breaches, advanced AI, and remote work has created a perfect storm for employment fraud. Foreign actors aren't just seeking multiple paychecks; they're targeting something far more valuable: day-one access to your organization's internal systems and data. These threats transcend industries and borders, affecting companies of all sizes.
The traditional hiring approach—taking candidates at their word before conducting background checks—creates a dangerous vulnerability. Joelle explains how "identity-first" verification not only blocks fraudulent candidates but improves the accuracy of background screening, with companies seeing a 17% increase in criminal record detection when identity verification comes first. First Advantage's sophisticated system triangulates technology, proprietary data, and personal knowledge verification to distinguish legitimate candidates from increasingly convincing fakes.
What makes this discussion particularly valuable is the balance between security and candidate experience. The goal isn't just blocking bad actors but creating streamlined processes for legitimate candidates. As Joelle emphasizes, "Our job is to help organizations find great talent and retain them."
Want to protect your organization from the rising tide of identity fraud? Connect with Joelle on LinkedIn or visit FADV.com to explore how identity verification can strengthen your hiring process. The future of secure hiring starts with knowing exactly who you're bringing on board.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's
most downloaded and sharedpodcasts designed for HR pros,
talent execs, tech enthusiastsand business leaders.
For hundreds more episodes andwhat's new in the world of work,
subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
hrgazettecom.
And visit hrgazettecom.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show.
Hello listeners, this is yourhost today, bill Bannam, and in
this episode we're going to lookat identity-first solutions for
employers, and joining me onthe show to shed light on this
topic is none other than JoelSmith, president over at First
Advantage Corporation, a leadingprovider of global software and
(00:54):
data in the HR tech industry.
Hey Joelle how are you today,hey Bill?
I'm doing well.
So, beyond my wee introductionjust a moment ago, joelle, why
don't you take a couple ofminutes?
Tell our listeners all aboutyourself, your career background
, what do you get up to todayand what gets you up in the
morning?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Oh, love it.
Okay, I'm happy to do that.
So, as you mentioned, I'm withFirst Advantage and I'm the
president here right now.
I have the privilege of workingwith product and data and
technology and manage all ofthose exciting innovations and
then also our go-to-market team.
So that is the sales, customersuccess, marketing and RevOps
(01:29):
organization and we are apublicly traded organization and
we are about 1.5 billion inrevenue.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Okay.
And what gets you up in themorning, what excites you, what
makes you leap out of bed andsay today's going to be my day?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
boy.
Well, I mean other than thelovely sun when it's finally out
.
Um, no, I mean I love tech.
Uh, it's it what grew me.
I grew up on tech.
I had a great career doing techconsulting with, you know,
large enterprises.
I've saw, I've seen everyproblem under the sun and
solving the problems, uh, getsme very excited.
And I also really likegardening because that's kind of
(02:07):
fun too.
So growing tech solutions and,I guess, growing vegetables.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I think we've just found the title for this episode
there you go.
Growing tech solutions andgrowing vegetables.
Okay, so can you provide a bitof an overview of First
Advantage and the software andthe solutions that your
customers partner with you for?
Give us the, give us theboilerplate, and then after that
we're going to break down intosome of the issues that you guys
(02:36):
help solve.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Sure, yeah, absolutely.
It's kind of broken into threemain components of what really
happens in the pre and post hireprocess of bringing kind of
employees into an organization.
Bread and butter has beenbackground screening, so
criminal checks and all of thatsort of thing.
Verifications, which isemployment and education, and
(03:02):
then the final big one that wehave been growing and are here
to talk about, which is digitalidentity.
So identity verification reallyunderstanding who is the person
that you're bringing on board.
We've been around for a reallylong time about 40 years but we
have really expanded into reallymore of a product and tech
(03:23):
organization solving some of theproblems for large enterprises.
That's our main focus area ofwhere we go and who we partner
with to solve some of thechallenges in hiring and
bringing on and maintaining agreat talent pool at your
organization.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat
Podcast.
If you enjoy the audio contentwe produce, you'll love our
articles on the HR Gazette.
Learn more at hrgazettecom.
And now back to the show.
What are some examples, then,of secure, scalable and seamless
identity-first solutions thatFirst Advantage provides,
(04:00):
solutions that First Advantageprovides.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
So we have a couple of them.
We have.
We target multiple marketsacross the world because digital
identity is a challenge that wehave seen rise in the last five
years pretty significantly inthe employment space.
So I think digital identity hasbeen around well, I know it's
(04:25):
been around for a very long time, but primarily in the know,
your customer space, like theKYC, where you know anti-money
laundering if somebody wants toopen an account online, if they
are, you know, going to gambleor if they're going to open a
bank account.
What has really transcended themarket that is something that
(04:45):
our products are reallytargeting is what we call the
KYP space, so knowing yourpeople, and this is in the full
employment context.
So when you think about theidentity fraud that could
potentially happen when you opena bank account, obviously
that's pretty serious and that'ssomething regarding a personal
information.
When you're talking aboutemployees, you've now switched
(05:05):
from a consumer to a business,and so when you're talking about
trying to identify who thatperson is are they, you know one
, who they say they are, butthen two eligible and able to
work, you know in the country ofwhich they're being hired and
then applying all of theemployment laws and compliance,
you know, to that and thenapplying all of the employment
laws and compliance to that andthen protecting the employer
(05:29):
brand.
So it's really important tokind of distinguish between the
two.
So first advantage is productsreally focus on the KYP market,
which is really specific to theemployment space, and that's the
area where our products arefocused and that's really in the
beginning of the hiring phase,as well as the background
screening phase and then evenpost-hire and can you explain
(05:51):
why identity is considered anessential first step in the
hiring process?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
what are some of those obstacles today when it
comes to people maybe not beingwho they say they are?
Yeah, yeah, I think.
I think lots of opportunitiesto do that these days give, give
us, give us an overview of whatthe issue is there and why it's
important yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
There's been a huge rise in in this, what we call
identity fraud, primarily drivenby two catalysts.
Uh, one first was really a lotof the data breaches that
happened in the late teens andearly 20s.
A lot of social securitynumbers were, you know,
(06:32):
exfiltrated from organizationsand that created the opportunity
for bad actors to create whatwe call synthetic identities.
So that was catalyst kind ofnumber one.
And then the second one reallyhas risen around some of the bad
actors that are targeting fromother kind of foreign states.
(06:53):
So we've seen a lot of issuesaround folks impersonating, you
know, people from North Korea,impersonating, as you know, US
employees and people who aretrying to get jobs, and they're
doing that one to try to makemoney.
Right, they want multiple jobs,they want to be able to, but
two and this is the one that hascompanies most concerned it's
(07:17):
actually they're trying to getthe credentials to the
organization.
So upon day one you get yourcredentials, your laptop and all
the good things that come withgetting a new job, but you also
get access, and you get accessto internal company information
data and that's worth a lot ofmoney.
So we have seen that identityfraud really rise in that type
(07:42):
of context over the last coupleof years, and that's an area
where our products are focusedon solving for some of our
customers.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Okay, so it's really important to have technology
that can help with all of theseissues.
If someone's applying for a joband it's only technology that's
assessing their credentials,maybe things can be missed.
Maybe there's an importanthuman element that needs to be
included too.
How do you see the balancebetween automation and human
(08:09):
oversight evolving in theidentity verification process,
particularly as AI capabilitiescontinue to advance?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Yeah, well, ai has also been a huge catalyst here,
because AI can be used for goodand it can also be used for bad.
So we are seeing a lot of deepfakes being created during
either video interviews oraround people just impersonating
other people.
So it's the synthetic fraudwhich is creating an identity
(08:40):
with a combination of real andfalse data, and then the deep
fakes on top of it, which isreally if it's somebody's voice
like maybe it's me talking,maybe it's not, it actually is,
but that's okay and also videos,and so they're trying to combat
that.
So AI has created the abilityfor a lot of these bad actors to
(09:04):
easily fabricate an identity,documents, all of the things
necessary to be able to get ajob.
And then you have the rise ofremote work and it's kind of a
perfect storm for this to reallykind of generate challenges for
the company.
But the good news is, ai canalso solve these problems and
that's really where our productsfocus.
(09:26):
So we have the ability totriangulate technology, which is
kind of our bread and butterdata, which we also have because
we have a large amount ofproprietary data based on what
we do for a living, which wealso have because we have a
large amount of proprietary databased on what we do for a
living, and then the actualknowledge that's within the
person's brain or wallet,whether from an ID or from kind
(09:48):
of just knowing their businessand their person.
So triangulating all thosethings together is really what
makes our technology able tosolve a lot of the problems that
our organizations and customersare experiencing today with the
rise of AI.
Ai is good and bad in certaininstances.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
And just for the record, listeners, I would like
to reassure you that all of ourguests that I am aware of are
real people.
Maybe that will change in thefuture as things evolve, but no,
I like to talk to real people,okay.
What role, joelle, doesemployee education and internal
or company culture play in inhelping clients adapt to
(10:29):
identity first approaches intheir hiring practices?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
yeah, absolutely, education is key, you know.
I mean, if you think about it,ai, really gen AI in particular,
has only been around for acouple of years.
Ai itself, obviously, withmachine learning and some of
those original things, have beenaround for much longer.
But the rise of gen AI, makingit easily accessible for the
average person, the averageemployee, the average individual
(10:57):
, is really what has launched alot of these challenges, because
it just makes it easier.
You don't have to know themodel, you don't have to train
it, it's already there andavailable.
So, educating yourself andeducating your company on what
it means, what you need to lookout for to be able to protect
yourself, your fellow employees,your brand, that's the part
(11:19):
that's most, most important, Ithink, for organizations to
really think about, and there'splenty of resources out there.
We have resources all over ourwebsite, but also there's tons
of research on it.
Right now, gartner's been doingresearch, transunion and Trust.
There's so many differentgroups out there that are really
trying to figure out what'sgoing on in this KYP space,
(11:39):
because it is fairly new, andthat's something that employers
should be asking any of youronboarding and postboarding
vendors about, because if you'renot, your competitors and peer
groups are and the bad actorsare going to find their way to
the place that is not focused onit, because they are focused on
(12:00):
all industries in in allregions across the globe.
So, unfortunately, nobody isimmune to this new rising
challenge that that folks areexperiencing and this issue
isn't going to go away right,it's just going to get.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
It's just going to get more and more significant.
What are the numbers aroundthat can?
Can you can maybe share wherewe're at in 2025 compared to
where we were last year in termsof folks who are trying to game
the system?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, absolutely so, in 2025, we've seen a 30% rise
in identity fraud and syntheticidentity fraud just in 2025
alone, and some of the Gartnerresearch that just recently came
out predicts that one in fourcandidates will be will have a
(12:46):
fake, a deep fake of some kind,by 2028.
That's, you know, 25 percent ofthe workforce being synthetic
or deep fake fraud, and so ifyou're hiring anybody in the
market, you really do need tokeep those things in mind.
This is publicly availableresearch and it is a real and
growing problem that we cancombat, but it really does take
(13:10):
some advanced thinking and, asyou mentioned earlier, education
on our part.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Okay, regular listeners of this show will know
that I am not scared of ashameless plug for the show.
It's been a while since we'vehad someone on from Gartner, but
I would encourage you to checkout the episode with Brian Cropp
, who was, at the time, groupVice President and Chief of HR
Research over at Gartner.
It was a very interesting chat,so do check that one out,
listeners, and if you don't knowBrian, you should totally uh
(13:38):
get to know him, joel, he's alovely child anyway.
Continuing through, uh, lookingahead, uh, let's talk about
your, let's talk about yourroadmap.
Now, what innovations orinvestments are on the horizon
for first advantage that youbelieve will reshape how
companies approach hiring andbackground checks in the next
one, two, three, five years?
(13:59):
What's on the horizon for youguys that you're particularly
excited about?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, absolutely Well , we're very focused on identity
first.
We believe that that needs tobe part of the background check
for, like now as well as allfuture.
It's a little unknown fact thattraditionally HR organizations
would take the you know goodfaith word of the candidate,
(14:24):
that their name and theiraddress and all of that is
legitimate, and then that's theinformation that gets passed on
to be able to run the checks andthen get to hiring.
And so it is really importantthat you start with identity,
make sure the person is who theysay they are.
You use that information forthe background check.
We've actually seen an increasein criminal hits that are found
(14:49):
by 17 percent when people useidentity, because you can't fake
your, your license, yourbiometric, your facial rec, fake
your license, your biometric,your facial rec, and you can't
change the data once it's inthere.
So you're going to run a checkon the actual information of
that individual and you're goingto find that data that they're
obviously trying to hide if theyhave done something.
(15:11):
So it makes it really easy forthe good actors to get through
and not easy for the bad actors.
So our innovation is reallyfocused on that identity first,
and then we're really justtrying to keep up with the speed
of that.
This is a constantly evolvingmarket and constantly evolving
change.
That's happened, and so we havean innovation lab that's
(15:34):
constantly testing differentprototypes, different language
models, different AI, to makesure that we're where we need to
be, at the forefront of this,to help our customers combat
this challenge, but also findgreat people.
You know we kind of expect allthe negative about this but,
like, our job is to helporganizations find great talent
and retain them, so it's reallyimportant that you also make it
(15:55):
easy for the good folks to getthrough and make it great
experience so that they want tostay at your organization longer
.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Just one thing that you mentioned there and this is
just amusing, so I'm notnecessarily looking for an
answer, but I wonder how goodthe facial recognition
technology is.
Could it, for example, could itseparate out and identify an
identical twin from another one?
Are there limits to what thattechnology can do right now?
Speaker 3 (16:21):
from another one, or are there limits to what that
technology can do right now?
Uh, we have not found any.
Um, it's actually verysophisticated in what it's
looking for and how it operates,but it's a combination of
things.
So you do have the facial rack,you have a liveness detection
which basically says the pictureof a picture, is it, you know,
is it a really live person?
But then it complements withthe identity like card itself.
So whether it's a license, adriver's license or a passport,
(16:44):
it actually connects the data inthe mag strip on the back as
well as the front of the card,together with the biometric and
then a whole host of otherattributes that are checked
during the identity.
So, even if there is a littlebit of a question on the facial
rec there's so many otherparameters, but we haven't seen
it get spooked yet.
(17:04):
It's got a very high accuracyrate, so it's pretty good.
We've been happy with it andwe've been able to catch quite a
few folks that you know couldhave prevented or could have had
a lot of challenges with thecustomers if they got hired, but
thankfully they did.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So, in conclusion, what what joe was saying is we
got this.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Guys, don't worry, we got this so I don't know, I
mean we're smart people but it's, it's tough to stay ahead.
But you know we have, we havemajor r&d investment to be able
to do this and you have to likeit's.
It's actually really hard tokind of stay at the pace very
good, you guys are doing anexcellent job.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Uh, just finally for today.
How can our listeners connectwith you?
So is that linkedin?
Uh, do you want to share youremail address?
Are you all over the social,such as tiktok and instagram and
things?
And, of course, how can theylearn more about First Advantage
?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
So definitely LinkedIn is thebest way to get me, and then
we'd love, you know, feel freeto connect and then First
Advantage.
You know great website FADBcom.
We have tons of information inthere about digital identity,
about verifications, all thatgood stuff.
Or you can chat with Faye onour site.
She'll help you navigate to anyplace that you want to go.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Excellent.
Well, that just leaves me tosay for this particular
interview, although I will behounding you to come back on,
but for this particularinterview.
Joelle Smith, thank you verymuch for being my guest.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Bill, thanks so much for having me.
This was great.
Really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
And listeners as always, until next time.
Happy working time happyworking.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show.
If you enjoyed this episode,why not subscribe and listen to
some of the hundreds of episodespublished by HR Gazette and
remember for what's new in theworld of work.
Subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
(19:00):
hrgazettecom.
Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's
most downloaded and sharedpodcasts designed for HR pros,
talent execs, tech enthusiastsand business leaders.
For hundreds more episodes andwhat's new in the world of work,
subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
hrgazettecom.
And visit hrgazettecom.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show.
Hello listeners, this is yourhost today, bill Bannam, and in
this episode we're going to lookat identity-first solutions for
employers, and joining me onthe show to shed light on this
topic is none other than JoelSmith, president over at First
Advantage Corporation, a leadingprovider of global software and
(00:54):
data in the HR tech industry.
Hey Joelle how are you today,hey Bill?
I'm doing well.
So, beyond my wee introductionjust a moment ago, joelle, why
don't you take a couple ofminutes?
Tell our listeners all aboutyourself, your career background
, what do you get up to todayand what gets you up in the
morning?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Oh, love it.
Okay, I'm happy to do that.
So, as you mentioned, I'm withFirst Advantage and I'm the
president here right now.
I have the privilege of workingwith product and data and
technology and manage all ofthose exciting innovations and
then also our go-to-market team.
So that is the sales, customersuccess, marketing and RevOps
(01:29):
organization and we are apublicly traded organization and
we are about 1.5 billion inrevenue.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Okay.
And what gets you up in themorning, what excites you, what
makes you leap out of bed andsay today's going to be my day?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
boy.
Well, I mean other than thelovely sun when it's finally out
.
Um, no, I mean I love tech.
Uh, it's it what grew me.
I grew up on tech.
I had a great career doing techconsulting with, you know,
large enterprises.
I've saw, I've seen everyproblem under the sun and
solving the problems, uh, getsme very excited.
And I also really likegardening because that's kind of
(02:07):
fun too.
So growing tech solutions and,I guess, growing vegetables.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I think we've just found the title for this episode
there you go.
Growing tech solutions andgrowing vegetables.
Okay, so can you provide a bitof an overview of First
Advantage and the software andthe solutions that your
customers partner with you for?
Give us the, give us theboilerplate, and then after that
we're going to break down intosome of the issues that you guys
(02:36):
help solve.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Sure, yeah, absolutely.
It's kind of broken into threemain components of what really
happens in the pre and post hireprocess of bringing kind of
employees into an organization.
Bread and butter has beenbackground screening, so
criminal checks and all of thatsort of thing.
Verifications, which isemployment and education, and
(03:02):
then the final big one that wehave been growing and are here
to talk about, which is digitalidentity.
So identity verification reallyunderstanding who is the person
that you're bringing on board.
We've been around for a reallylong time about 40 years but we
have really expanded into reallymore of a product and tech
(03:23):
organization solving some of theproblems for large enterprises.
That's our main focus area ofwhere we go and who we partner
with to solve some of thechallenges in hiring and
bringing on and maintaining agreat talent pool at your
organization.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat
Podcast.
If you enjoy the audio contentwe produce, you'll love our
articles on the HR Gazette.
Learn more at hrgazettecom.
And now back to the show.
What are some examples, then,of secure, scalable and seamless
identity-first solutions thatFirst Advantage provides,
(04:00):
solutions that First Advantageprovides.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
So we have a couple of them.
We have.
We target multiple marketsacross the world because digital
identity is a challenge that wehave seen rise in the last five
years pretty significantly inthe employment space.
So I think digital identity hasbeen around well, I know it's
(04:25):
been around for a very long time, but primarily in the know,
your customer space, like theKYC, where you know anti-money
laundering if somebody wants toopen an account online, if they
are, you know, going to gambleor if they're going to open a
bank account.
What has really transcended themarket that is something that
(04:45):
our products are reallytargeting is what we call the
KYP space, so knowing yourpeople, and this is in the full
employment context.
So when you think about theidentity fraud that could
potentially happen when you opena bank account, obviously
that's pretty serious and that'ssomething regarding a personal
information.
When you're talking aboutemployees, you've now switched
(05:05):
from a consumer to a business,and so when you're talking about
trying to identify who thatperson is are they, you know one
, who they say they are, butthen two eligible and able to
work, you know in the country ofwhich they're being hired and
then applying all of theemployment laws and compliance,
you know, to that and thenapplying all of the employment
laws and compliance to that andthen protecting the employer
(05:29):
brand.
So it's really important tokind of distinguish between the
two.
So first advantage is productsreally focus on the KYP market,
which is really specific to theemployment space, and that's the
area where our products arefocused and that's really in the
beginning of the hiring phase,as well as the background
screening phase and then evenpost-hire and can you explain
(05:51):
why identity is considered anessential first step in the
hiring process?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
what are some of those obstacles today when it
comes to people maybe not beingwho they say they are?
Yeah, yeah, I think.
I think lots of opportunitiesto do that these days give, give
us, give us an overview of whatthe issue is there and why it's
important yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
There's been a huge rise in in this, what we call
identity fraud, primarily drivenby two catalysts.
Uh, one first was really a lotof the data breaches that
happened in the late teens andearly 20s.
A lot of social securitynumbers were, you know,
(06:32):
exfiltrated from organizationsand that created the opportunity
for bad actors to create whatwe call synthetic identities.
So that was catalyst kind ofnumber one.
And then the second one reallyhas risen around some of the bad
actors that are targeting fromother kind of foreign states.
(06:53):
So we've seen a lot of issuesaround folks impersonating, you
know, people from North Korea,impersonating, as you know, US
employees and people who aretrying to get jobs, and they're
doing that one to try to makemoney.
Right, they want multiple jobs,they want to be able to, but
two and this is the one that hascompanies most concerned it's
(07:17):
actually they're trying to getthe credentials to the
organization.
So upon day one you get yourcredentials, your laptop and all
the good things that come withgetting a new job, but you also
get access, and you get accessto internal company information
data and that's worth a lot ofmoney.
So we have seen that identityfraud really rise in that type
(07:42):
of context over the last coupleof years, and that's an area
where our products are focusedon solving for some of our
customers.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Okay, so it's really important to have technology
that can help with all of theseissues.
If someone's applying for a joband it's only technology that's
assessing their credentials,maybe things can be missed.
Maybe there's an importanthuman element that needs to be
included too.
How do you see the balancebetween automation and human
(08:09):
oversight evolving in theidentity verification process,
particularly as AI capabilitiescontinue to advance?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Yeah, well, ai has also been a huge catalyst here,
because AI can be used for goodand it can also be used for bad.
So we are seeing a lot of deepfakes being created during
either video interviews oraround people just impersonating
other people.
So it's the synthetic fraudwhich is creating an identity
(08:40):
with a combination of real andfalse data, and then the deep
fakes on top of it, which isreally if it's somebody's voice
like maybe it's me talking,maybe it's not, it actually is,
but that's okay and also videos,and so they're trying to combat
that.
So AI has created the abilityfor a lot of these bad actors to
(09:04):
easily fabricate an identity,documents, all of the things
necessary to be able to get ajob.
And then you have the rise ofremote work and it's kind of a
perfect storm for this to reallykind of generate challenges for
the company.
But the good news is, ai canalso solve these problems and
that's really where our productsfocus.
(09:26):
So we have the ability totriangulate technology, which is
kind of our bread and butterdata, which we also have because
we have a large amount ofproprietary data based on what
we do for a living, which wealso have because we have a
large amount of proprietary databased on what we do for a
living, and then the actualknowledge that's within the
person's brain or wallet,whether from an ID or from kind
(09:48):
of just knowing their businessand their person.
So triangulating all thosethings together is really what
makes our technology able tosolve a lot of the problems that
our organizations and customersare experiencing today with the
rise of AI.
Ai is good and bad in certaininstances.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
And just for the record, listeners, I would like
to reassure you that all of ourguests that I am aware of are
real people.
Maybe that will change in thefuture as things evolve, but no,
I like to talk to real people,okay.
What role, joelle, doesemployee education and internal
or company culture play in inhelping clients adapt to
(10:29):
identity first approaches intheir hiring practices?
Speaker 3 (10:33):
yeah, absolutely, education is key, you know.
I mean, if you think about it,ai, really gen AI in particular,
has only been around for acouple of years.
Ai itself, obviously, withmachine learning and some of
those original things, have beenaround for much longer.
But the rise of gen AI, makingit easily accessible for the
average person, the averageemployee, the average individual
(10:57):
, is really what has launched alot of these challenges, because
it just makes it easier.
You don't have to know themodel, you don't have to train
it, it's already there andavailable.
So, educating yourself andeducating your company on what
it means, what you need to lookout for to be able to protect
yourself, your fellow employees,your brand, that's the part
(11:19):
that's most, most important, Ithink, for organizations to
really think about, and there'splenty of resources out there.
We have resources all over ourwebsite, but also there's tons
of research on it.
Right now, gartner's been doingresearch, transunion and Trust.
There's so many differentgroups out there that are really
trying to figure out what'sgoing on in this KYP space,
(11:39):
because it is fairly new, andthat's something that employers
should be asking any of youronboarding and postboarding
vendors about, because if you'renot, your competitors and peer
groups are and the bad actorsare going to find their way to
the place that is not focused onit, because they are focused on
(12:00):
all industries in in allregions across the globe.
So, unfortunately, nobody isimmune to this new rising
challenge that that folks areexperiencing and this issue
isn't going to go away right,it's just going to get.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
It's just going to get more and more significant.
What are the numbers aroundthat can?
Can you can maybe share wherewe're at in 2025 compared to
where we were last year in termsof folks who are trying to game
the system?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, absolutely so, in 2025, we've seen a 30% rise
in identity fraud and syntheticidentity fraud just in 2025
alone, and some of the Gartnerresearch that just recently came
out predicts that one in fourcandidates will be will have a
(12:46):
fake, a deep fake of some kind,by 2028.
That's, you know, 25 percent ofthe workforce being synthetic
or deep fake fraud, and so ifyou're hiring anybody in the
market, you really do need tokeep those things in mind.
This is publicly availableresearch and it is a real and
growing problem that we cancombat, but it really does take
(13:10):
some advanced thinking and, asyou mentioned earlier, education
on our part.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Okay, regular listeners of this show will know
that I am not scared of ashameless plug for the show.
It's been a while since we'vehad someone on from Gartner, but
I would encourage you to checkout the episode with Brian Cropp
, who was, at the time, groupVice President and Chief of HR
Research over at Gartner.
It was a very interesting chat,so do check that one out,
listeners, and if you don't knowBrian, you should totally uh
(13:38):
get to know him, joel, he's alovely child anyway.
Continuing through, uh, lookingahead, uh, let's talk about
your, let's talk about yourroadmap.
Now, what innovations orinvestments are on the horizon
for first advantage that youbelieve will reshape how
companies approach hiring andbackground checks in the next
one, two, three, five years?
(13:59):
What's on the horizon for youguys that you're particularly
excited about?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, absolutely Well , we're very focused on identity
first.
We believe that that needs tobe part of the background check
for, like now as well as allfuture.
It's a little unknown fact thattraditionally HR organizations
would take the you know goodfaith word of the candidate,
(14:24):
that their name and theiraddress and all of that is
legitimate, and then that's theinformation that gets passed on
to be able to run the checks andthen get to hiring.
And so it is really importantthat you start with identity,
make sure the person is who theysay they are.
You use that information forthe background check.
We've actually seen an increasein criminal hits that are found
(14:49):
by 17 percent when people useidentity, because you can't fake
your, your license, yourbiometric, your facial rec, fake
your license, your biometric,your facial rec, and you can't
change the data once it's inthere.
So you're going to run a checkon the actual information of
that individual and you're goingto find that data that they're
obviously trying to hide if theyhave done something.
(15:11):
So it makes it really easy forthe good actors to get through
and not easy for the bad actors.
So our innovation is reallyfocused on that identity first,
and then we're really justtrying to keep up with the speed
of that.
This is a constantly evolvingmarket and constantly evolving
change.
That's happened, and so we havean innovation lab that's
(15:34):
constantly testing differentprototypes, different language
models, different AI, to makesure that we're where we need to
be, at the forefront of this,to help our customers combat
this challenge, but also findgreat people.
You know we kind of expect allthe negative about this but,
like, our job is to helporganizations find great talent
and retain them, so it's reallyimportant that you also make it
(15:55):
easy for the good folks to getthrough and make it great
experience so that they want tostay at your organization longer
.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Just one thing that you mentioned there and this is
just amusing, so I'm notnecessarily looking for an
answer, but I wonder how goodthe facial recognition
technology is.
Could it, for example, could itseparate out and identify an
identical twin from another one?
Are there limits to what thattechnology can do right now?
Speaker 3 (16:21):
from another one, or are there limits to what that
technology can do right now?
Uh, we have not found any.
Um, it's actually verysophisticated in what it's
looking for and how it operates,but it's a combination of
things.
So you do have the facial rack,you have a liveness detection
which basically says the pictureof a picture, is it, you know,
is it a really live person?
But then it complements withthe identity like card itself.
So whether it's a license, adriver's license or a passport,
(16:44):
it actually connects the data inthe mag strip on the back as
well as the front of the card,together with the biometric and
then a whole host of otherattributes that are checked
during the identity.
So, even if there is a littlebit of a question on the facial
rec there's so many otherparameters, but we haven't seen
it get spooked yet.
(17:04):
It's got a very high accuracyrate, so it's pretty good.
We've been happy with it andwe've been able to catch quite a
few folks that you know couldhave prevented or could have had
a lot of challenges with thecustomers if they got hired, but
thankfully they did.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So, in conclusion, what what joe was saying is we
got this.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Guys, don't worry, we got this so I don't know, I
mean we're smart people but it's, it's tough to stay ahead.
But you know we have, we havemajor r&d investment to be able
to do this and you have to likeit's.
It's actually really hard tokind of stay at the pace very
good, you guys are doing anexcellent job.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Uh, just finally for today.
How can our listeners connectwith you?
So is that linkedin?
Uh, do you want to share youremail address?
Are you all over the social,such as tiktok and instagram and
things?
And, of course, how can theylearn more about First Advantage
?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
So definitely LinkedIn is thebest way to get me, and then
we'd love, you know, feel freeto connect and then First
Advantage.
You know great website FADBcom.
We have tons of information inthere about digital identity,
about verifications, all thatgood stuff.
Or you can chat with Faye onour site.
She'll help you navigate to anyplace that you want to go.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Excellent.
Well, that just leaves me tosay for this particular
interview, although I will behounding you to come back on,
but for this particularinterview.
Joelle Smith, thank you verymuch for being my guest.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Bill, thanks so much for having me.
This was great.
Really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
And listeners as always, until next time.
Happy working time happyworking.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show.
If you enjoyed this episode,why not subscribe and listen to
some of the hundreds of episodespublished by HR Gazette and
remember for what's new in theworld of work.
Subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
(19:00):
hrgazettecom.
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