May 27, 2025 • 18 mins
In this episode, Bill Banham talks with Marina Farthouat, the new Vice President, People at Oyster - the global employment platform that enables companies to hire, pay, and care for distributed teams.
Marina brings a refreshing perspective to the HRchat Show about transforming workplace norms through remote and distributed teams. Drawing from her diverse background spanning investment banking to startups, Marina shares why her most connected workplace experiences have consistently been in remote organizations.
"Talent doesn't have a nationality," Marina asserts, challenging traditional location-based hiring approaches. She makes a compelling case for distributed teams as both a talent strategy and a resilience measure. When recent blackouts hit Spain and Portugal, Oyster's globally distributed workforce demonstrated exactly this kind of operational continuity—shifting activities seamlessly to unaffected regions.
What makes Marina's perspective particularly valuable is her holistic view of remote work benefits. Beyond the usual flexibility talking points, she highlights how remote arrangements positively impact families, especially children who no longer lose parents to long commutes. She dismantles the myth that remote workers feel disconnected, explaining how digital platforms actually create more egalitarian access to leadership and information than traditional office environments where proximity matters.
The conversation tackles economic concerns head-on, addressing fears that global hiring simply shifts jobs to lower-cost regions. Marina offers a more nuanced view: global talent acquisition isn't about replacement but expansion and resilience. She emphasizes that startups particularly benefit from access to diverse talent pools while managing burn rates effectively.
By the way, if you enjoy this conversation and want to learn more about Marina’s team and some of the people challenges they tackle, check out episode 338 with Oyster Co-founder Jack Mardack.
Marina leads the company’s people strategy with a focus on building a human-centric, inclusive, and sustainable culture across a global workforce.
She brings a wealth of experience leading People functions in remote organizations, most recently at ClickHouse and Elastic. Marina has developed deep expertise in employee engagement and organizational development, as well as in building strong cultures and scaling global com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's
most downloaded and sharedpodcasts designed for HR pros,
talent execs, tech enthusiastsand business leaders.
For hundreds more episodes andwhat's new in the world of work,
subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
hrgazettecom.
And visit hrgazettecom.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show.
Hello, listeners, this is yourhost today, bill Bannum, and
joining me on the show today isnone other than the wonderful
Marina Fafua, the new vicepresident of people at Oyster,
the global employment platformthat enables companies to hire,
pay and care for distributedteams.
(00:47):
By the way, listeners, if youenjoy this conversation and want
to learn more about Marina'steam and some of the people
challenges that they tackle,check out episode 338 with
Oyster co-founder Jack MardakGosh.
That was a while ago now.
Marina leads the company'speople strategy, with a focus on
building a human centric,inclusive and sustainable
(01:09):
culture across a globalworkforce.
She brings a wealth ofexperience leading people
functions in remoteorganisations, most recently at
Clickhouse and Elastic.
Marina has developed deepexpertise in employee engagement
and org development, as well asin building strong cultures and
scaling global companies atspeed.
(01:30):
Hey, marina, welcome to theshow today.
How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Hey, bill, I'm doing well.
Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So, beyond my reintroduction just a moment ago
, why didn't you start by takinga minute or two and telling our
listeners a bit more aboutyourself and what gets you up in
the morning?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yes, so a bit about myself.
I was born in France, raisedpartly in France and the UK.
I studied law at university andthen business, and I
specialised in finance andeconomics actually.
But I was very interested inthe HR topics when I was at
university because it felt to melike there were many questions
(02:07):
but not always with clearanswers when it comes to this
discipline.
And so my first role in HRstraight after university was in
an investment bank, actually anemployer of about at the time,
100, uh, with like bankingincome of about 22 billion.
So it was a huge employer, asyou can imagine, lots of
(02:30):
interesting topics.
And then, since then, my careerhas taken me in different
directions.
I've worked in league in thelegal industry, in insurance,
fintech and, more recently,startups in technology okay,
very good, I didn't realize.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
You lived in the UK for a while.
Whereabouts were you?
Just out of interest.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, I actually lived in the UK for most of my
life, so in Folkestone, south ofEngland, and then afterwards
West London, ealing area kind of.
I don't know if you know EalingCommon.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I lived in Ealing myself many years ago.
There we are, small world.
Okay, let's continue throughand let's talk about hybrid
organizations.
How are hybrid organizations,marina, leveraging global talent
and what's the key toengagement in this environment?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Well, I think that it's really only hybrid
organizations or remoteorganizations that can fully
leverage global talent, in thesense that we know one thing is
for sure talent doesn't have anationality.
Therefore, the only way to getthe best talent quickly into
companies that are growing fast,or even companies that are more
mature than startups, is toemploy globally.
(03:40):
Now, that doesn't meannecessarily employing in very
many countries.
Some employers might justchoose to employ in five
different countries or 10different countries, depending
on their analysis of talentpools, but I really do think
that hybrid or remote isabsolutely the way to leverage
the talents that we haveglobally.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Regular listeners of the show will know that for many
, many, many years, I haveworked remotely and I'm a big
proponent of hybrid and remoteworkforces.
Uh, it is the future, so get onboard.
If you are one of thosecompanies that are saying you
know what, actually we've got topull all our employees back
into the company these days, um,you're wrong.
Um, the talent can be anywhere,as long as you can manage them
(04:23):
anyway, that's just my take.
In a recent LinkedIn post,marina, you shared the following
London Mayor, sadiq Khan hasraised concerns about the impact
of remote work on the city,suggesting it is hollowing out
London and advocating for areturn to office approach, which
goes completely against what Ijust said.
What's your take on thebenefits of remote work for
(04:45):
employees?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
well, first of all, I just want to acknowledge the
point that you made, bill, aboutbeing a a proponent of remote
work yourself.
I think that, um, it is thefuture, and when it comes to the
future, it's always wiser toembrace it than to fight it.
So there you go.
That's.
That's going to be my openingfor this.
But to your question about thisLinkedIn post, I wrote about
the London mayor and his hisarguments around.
(05:10):
You know, remote working ismaking London hollow.
So here are the benefits ofremote work, and they extend far
beyond employees.
They extend to society as awhole.
It offers flexibility foremployees, as we know, to work
in the way that they can combinewith their life.
They can go to a doctor'sappointment without taking
holiday out of their balances.
They can see their children.
(05:31):
We know all of this, and itreally doesn't make sense to
impose rigid rules on peoplewhen we know they can do so much
better in a flexibleenvironment.
But what we don't talk about isthe society at large when it
comes to remote working, becausethere's another group of people
that are really impacted bythis that we talk about much
(05:53):
less so when it comes to remotework, and that's children,
because obviously some childrenjust don't get to see their
parents because they leave veryearly in the morning.
Typical family, basically, willcommute into a big city.
Parents will leave before thechild is awake maybe, and maybe
even return after they've goneto bed.
I know I'm talking fromexperience.
(06:15):
It happened to me after myfirst child, when I was still
going to an office.
I did not see my daughter untilthe weekend, for example.
So I think it's reallyimportant to realise that remote
work impacts society at large.
It allows employees to have theflexibility that they need to
live their life in a way thatdoesn't feel completely
constrained by work, but also itallows children to see their
parents and, again, children toperceive work as not the thing
(06:39):
that's taking their parents awayfrom them, which, by the way,
does have an impact on they thenperceive the workplace in the
future, which we should, I think, very much care about.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat
Podcast.
If you enjoy the audio contentwe produce, you'll love our
articles on the HR Gazette.
Learn more at hrgazettecom.
And now back to the show.
A bit of a follow-up to what wewere talking about just a
moment ago is the flip side,connectivity Maybe.
(07:16):
Connectivity is a challenge formany organizations when workers
are remote.
So, for example, you join acompany, that company is fully
remote.
How on earth do those newemployees get a sense of that
company culture?
You know so how can hr andpeople leaders ensure that
global remote employees stillfeel integrated, supported and
part of that company culture?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
yeah, I think it's a very interesting question
because, um, people often put alabel on remote working.
There's a few things that getsaid.
For example, if you workremotely, people can't socialize
anymore because they don't haveaccess to an office.
Well, it's like.
No, actually, some people cansometimes purchase access to a
WeWork and they do see people.
Working remotely doesn't meanthat people have to only be in
(07:58):
their house doing their remotework, so there is a lot more
freedom than maybe it soundslike when people think about
remote work.
And the other myth is people arenot connected if they work
remotely.
Now I can understand why peoplewould say that, but the most
connected cultures I've everbeen a part of have been remote,
most connected by far.
(08:18):
And I think the reason for thisis, if you think about it at
the end of the day, the minutewhere people are in an office
together human nature, all ofthis good stuff, politics arise
not because people want to, notbecause people are political
that's not what I mean butbecause all of a sudden, it
matters which office you're in,or if you're on a certain floor,
or if you get to see the personwho makes decisions more
(08:41):
frequently than someone else, orwho has lunch with whom.
I mean, I'm just, you know, itis human nature.
The thing about remote workingis and hybrid is different
because you have a combinationof some interaction in office,
some interactions remote, sothat again brings it some
challenges.
But the thing with remoteworking that's fascinating is
you have a lot of tooling nowthat allows people to be
(09:02):
connected socially and in termsof work, in terms of project
management and task management,and we can get into the actual
tools if we'd like.
But, for example, if you're onSlack and you're socializing and
you're also talking about workand you're going to social
channels at the same time,everybody in the company
globally, whether they're inWashington DC or Berlin, has the
(09:24):
same access to the CEO.
It's one Slack message away foreveryone, basically.
And of course, in practice it'sdifferent because people have
different roles and whether theyfeel comfortable approaching
decision makers is different.
But there is no limit to howpeople can communicate At the
same time.
If you're on a G meet,everybody's the same again, the
same access to the call.
(09:45):
You see that little window withpeople's face.
There isn't someone who's in anoffice sitting next to someone
and someone else who is actuallydialing in remotely, like we
used to have, like maybe in youknow, 2014, 2015, at the
beginning, when you had thesebig dial phones and you had some
people in the room, some peoplesomewhere else, um.
So the beauty of remote isreally that it's more
(10:06):
egalitarian and the connectivityhappens because with the right
tooling, you can onboard peoplevery socially.
You can get them onto the rightcalls.
You can use um things likelunapark to do games online.
You can use slack to have allsorts of slack channels for
jokes, for uh news, forinformation, for people who
share things like pets theyshare their, you know, we have
(10:27):
question of the week, forexample.
I always tell when people havea lot of fun having social time.
So, in effect, you can actuallybe very connected in a remote
company okay, there you go.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Technology means that you can actually connect.
There.
We are listeners.
Uh, in another linkedin post.
So there is me doing my ownwork, going all over your
LinkedIn, ahead of ourconversation today.
In another recent LinkedIn post, you wrote the following
Forgive me, it's a long quote,followed by a question.
Here we go.
In light of rising tariffs,it's clear that economic
(10:58):
uncertainty is here to stay.
The best way to createresilient companies is to
distribute talent globally Forpeople, teams.
Crisis management isn't justabout reactive measures.
It's about building resilientorganizational structures.
So the question is why isn'tmodern crisis management just
(11:18):
about having a plan B, ie why isit about building
geographically diverse teamsthat are resilient to global
challenges from the outset?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Well, we know what the problem is with the plan B.
I think it's called plan B fora reason.
It's not called plan A.
It's called plan B because it'snot actually what we had
intended to do and thereforeit's usually something that's
less than ideal by design.
Right, it's not something thatwe necessarily wanted to
entertain.
Now it's okay to have plan Bfor crisis management, but the
(11:50):
reason why I think teams shouldbe built, distributed by default
, is because we know fromexperience now that it is more a
much more resilient way to dobusiness.
I mean, take even today, liketwo hours ago in the news
blackout in spain and portugal.
So many workers don't haveaccess to uh electricity right
now.
They're trying to kind ofstruggling to get online some
(12:12):
companies.
I mean, we have many teammembers in spain and portugal,
so we have this emergencychannel now where we're
coordinating, but we have manyteam members in many other
countries too, and so you caneasily shift activity to a
different location and theimpact isn't felt as badly as it
could have been.
Same with COVID.
(12:32):
When COVID hit, I was working ata company called Elastic and of
course, in some countries wherethe lockdowns were in place, I
know people didn't think aboutselling then, but of course
companies still continuedactivities and the sales cycle
in countries where you closedeals face-to-face.
The sales cycle came to a haltin those countries that had
lockdowns.
(12:52):
But then if you're in so manycountries, even as a startup,
you realize that in thatparticular example lockdown
dates varied and so you had somecountries kept going and some
countries had lockdowns and thenyou kind of shifted.
If you really have onlycentered your operations in one
or two countries, it does makethe company more vulnerable to
(13:14):
any force majeure or anyunexpected events and crisis
management.
Then it does become reactive,not proactive, which I think is
a missed opportunity.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
You mentioned in your previous answer that it's
important to, for example,diversify workforce locations to
mitigate some of those regionaleconomic impacts.
What other practical tips mightyou have for leaders on the
back of what you just mentionedthere?
So, for example, perhapsoptimising workforce costs
through global talentacquisition is a good idea,
maybe building flexible teamstructures, maybe employing
(13:46):
folks that are frankly moreadaptable, that they're more
ready for changes that couldhappen at any moment.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yes, I think often people think about the topic of
global work through the lens offear and they will say things
like oh, this is about movingreally well-paid US jobs away
from the US economy and to cheaplabor locations and this is not
good for anyone.
And let's not fool ourselves.
Actually, so far, we haven'tseen evidence of that at all,
(14:15):
because, ultimately, here's thething about people and skills
and talent.
Companies need what they need.
They need certain skills, alevel of skill and talent that
they will always find in theexisting economies, like the US,
for example, except that youcan also get other talent from
other countries in addition toso, for example, I think
(14:38):
educational systems offer verydifferent strengths based on
countries.
We can't, of course, generalize, because talent really, at the
end of the day, varies fromindividual to individual, but
there are some countries aroundthe world that are very well
known for producing amazingengineers, for example, or very
creative talent engineers, forexample, or very creative talent
(15:01):
, and so it does make sense toreally tap into those talent
pools, knowing that I personallydon't see talent shifting away
from the existing markets wherewe are, you know, mostly in the
US and Western Europe, where westill need very much the
profiles that we've needed for along time, except we need to
open up opportunities to moremarkets so that we become more
resilient.
And it is also true that forcompanies at startup stage to
(15:24):
survive and to preserve theirburn rate, a strategy around
cost base for salaries isimportant.
So from that perspective,absolutely, if you have two
co-founders and they have astartup and they need to
preserve cash and make sure theyhave enough time to be
successful and seize theopportunity ahead of them, yeah,
of course, they're going tohave to think of how and where
(15:46):
to hire.
And this is where you know,oyster, like you know, is super,
super helpful because it givespeople access to talent in a
global way, so you get the bestpeople.
You can also manage budgets.
So the cost aspect does comeinto play, but it isn't about
(16:07):
removing opportunities and likeshifting them all to other areas
of the world.
I don't see that happening.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Marina, we're almost out of time.
I can't believe it.
I feel like we've only beenchatting for a few minutes.
We're definitely going to haveto get you on again soon.
Before we wrap up, though, twomore questions for you, uh, the
next one's a giant question.
It's kind of a ridiculous giantquestion, and I'm going to make
it more ridiculous bychallenging you to answer in 60
seconds or less.
But uh, give it a go.
Why not, uh, in 60 seconds orless?
(16:30):
Marina, how do you see thefuture of hr shaping up, and
where does Oyster fit into thatvision?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
For too long, work has felt like a cage to many
people, something that restrictstheir freedom.
For me, the future of work isto review and create working
practices through one simplelens, and that lens is to give
people as much freedom in theworkplace as possible, because
you can do great work in anenvironment that is a lot more
(16:58):
free than what we see on average.
And remote working comes intoplay here, and that's when a
company like oyster really helps, because it allows companies to
employ remotely and to know howto do it well excellent, you
had 10 plus seconds to spare.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
mar Marina, very, very good Did I.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Oh goodness, I didn't realise.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I should have made a 30 second challenge.
I'll know for next time.
Ok, just finally for today.
How can our listeners connectwith you?
I'd urge them to, for example,connect with you on LinkedIn,
because you do share a lot ofinteresting content.
I just want to say that.
So, maybe LinkedIn, maybe youremail address, maybe other
socials such as Instagram and,of course, how can they learn
more about Oyster?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Well, thank you so much for having me on this
episode and that was reallybrilliant.
So the way to connect with meis mostly LinkedIn.
I'm actually not that great atother social media, although
I've been told that I need toget my act together and be on
other platforms, so I need towork on that, but linkedin is
the best place, and followingthe oyster page on linkedin for
more news as well excellent, andI think the url is oysterhrcom,
(18:04):
and we'll have a link to all ofthat stuff, uh, in the show
notes listeners, so fear not ifyour pencils broke when you're
trying to write all of that down.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
uh, that just leads me to say for today, marina,
thank you very much for being myguest thank you so much, bill.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
It was great to talk to you and listeners as always.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Until next time, happy working thanks for
listening to the hr chat show.
If you enjoyed this episode,why not subscribe and listen to
some of the hundreds of episodespublished by HR Gazette and
remember for what's new in theworld of work?
Subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
(18:48):
HRGazettecom.
Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's
most downloaded and sharedpodcasts designed for HR pros,
talent execs, tech enthusiastsand business leaders.
For hundreds more episodes andwhat's new in the world of work,
subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
hrgazettecom.
And visit hrgazettecom.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show.
Hello, listeners, this is yourhost today, bill Bannum, and
joining me on the show today isnone other than the wonderful
Marina Fafua, the new vicepresident of people at Oyster,
the global employment platformthat enables companies to hire,
pay and care for distributedteams.
(00:47):
By the way, listeners, if youenjoy this conversation and want
to learn more about Marina'steam and some of the people
challenges that they tackle,check out episode 338 with
Oyster co-founder Jack MardakGosh.
That was a while ago now.
Marina leads the company'speople strategy, with a focus on
building a human centric,inclusive and sustainable
(01:09):
culture across a globalworkforce.
She brings a wealth ofexperience leading people
functions in remoteorganisations, most recently at
Clickhouse and Elastic.
Marina has developed deepexpertise in employee engagement
and org development, as well asin building strong cultures and
scaling global companies atspeed.
(01:30):
Hey, marina, welcome to theshow today.
How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Hey, bill, I'm doing well.
Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So, beyond my reintroduction just a moment ago
, why didn't you start by takinga minute or two and telling our
listeners a bit more aboutyourself and what gets you up in
the morning?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yes, so a bit about myself.
I was born in France, raisedpartly in France and the UK.
I studied law at university andthen business, and I
specialised in finance andeconomics actually.
But I was very interested inthe HR topics when I was at
university because it felt to melike there were many questions
(02:07):
but not always with clearanswers when it comes to this
discipline.
And so my first role in HRstraight after university was in
an investment bank, actually anemployer of about at the time,
100, uh, with like bankingincome of about 22 billion.
So it was a huge employer, asyou can imagine, lots of
(02:30):
interesting topics.
And then, since then, my careerhas taken me in different
directions.
I've worked in league in thelegal industry, in insurance,
fintech and, more recently,startups in technology okay,
very good, I didn't realize.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
You lived in the UK for a while.
Whereabouts were you?
Just out of interest.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, I actually lived in the UK for most of my
life, so in Folkestone, south ofEngland, and then afterwards
West London, ealing area kind of.
I don't know if you know EalingCommon.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I lived in Ealing myself many years ago.
There we are, small world.
Okay, let's continue throughand let's talk about hybrid
organizations.
How are hybrid organizations,marina, leveraging global talent
and what's the key toengagement in this environment?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Well, I think that it's really only hybrid
organizations or remoteorganizations that can fully
leverage global talent, in thesense that we know one thing is
for sure talent doesn't have anationality.
Therefore, the only way to getthe best talent quickly into
companies that are growing fast,or even companies that are more
mature than startups, is toemploy globally.
(03:40):
Now, that doesn't meannecessarily employing in very
many countries.
Some employers might justchoose to employ in five
different countries or 10different countries, depending
on their analysis of talentpools, but I really do think
that hybrid or remote isabsolutely the way to leverage
the talents that we haveglobally.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Regular listeners of the show will know that for many
, many, many years, I haveworked remotely and I'm a big
proponent of hybrid and remoteworkforces.
Uh, it is the future, so get onboard.
If you are one of thosecompanies that are saying you
know what, actually we've got topull all our employees back
into the company these days, um,you're wrong.
Um, the talent can be anywhere,as long as you can manage them
(04:23):
anyway, that's just my take.
In a recent LinkedIn post,marina, you shared the following
London Mayor, sadiq Khan hasraised concerns about the impact
of remote work on the city,suggesting it is hollowing out
London and advocating for areturn to office approach, which
goes completely against what Ijust said.
What's your take on thebenefits of remote work for
(04:45):
employees?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
well, first of all, I just want to acknowledge the
point that you made, bill, aboutbeing a a proponent of remote
work yourself.
I think that, um, it is thefuture, and when it comes to the
future, it's always wiser toembrace it than to fight it.
So there you go.
That's.
That's going to be my openingfor this.
But to your question about thisLinkedIn post, I wrote about
the London mayor and his hisarguments around.
(05:10):
You know, remote working ismaking London hollow.
So here are the benefits ofremote work, and they extend far
beyond employees.
They extend to society as awhole.
It offers flexibility foremployees, as we know, to work
in the way that they can combinewith their life.
They can go to a doctor'sappointment without taking
holiday out of their balances.
They can see their children.
(05:31):
We know all of this, and itreally doesn't make sense to
impose rigid rules on peoplewhen we know they can do so much
better in a flexibleenvironment.
But what we don't talk about isthe society at large when it
comes to remote working, becausethere's another group of people
that are really impacted bythis that we talk about much
(05:53):
less so when it comes to remotework, and that's children,
because obviously some childrenjust don't get to see their
parents because they leave veryearly in the morning.
Typical family, basically, willcommute into a big city.
Parents will leave before thechild is awake maybe, and maybe
even return after they've goneto bed.
I know I'm talking fromexperience.
(06:15):
It happened to me after myfirst child, when I was still
going to an office.
I did not see my daughter untilthe weekend, for example.
So I think it's reallyimportant to realise that remote
work impacts society at large.
It allows employees to have theflexibility that they need to
live their life in a way thatdoesn't feel completely
constrained by work, but also itallows children to see their
parents and, again, children toperceive work as not the thing
(06:39):
that's taking their parents awayfrom them, which, by the way,
does have an impact on they thenperceive the workplace in the
future, which we should, I think, very much care about.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat
Podcast.
If you enjoy the audio contentwe produce, you'll love our
articles on the HR Gazette.
Learn more at hrgazettecom.
And now back to the show.
A bit of a follow-up to what wewere talking about just a
moment ago is the flip side,connectivity Maybe.
(07:16):
Connectivity is a challenge formany organizations when workers
are remote.
So, for example, you join acompany, that company is fully
remote.
How on earth do those newemployees get a sense of that
company culture?
You know so how can hr andpeople leaders ensure that
global remote employees stillfeel integrated, supported and
part of that company culture?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
yeah, I think it's a very interesting question
because, um, people often put alabel on remote working.
There's a few things that getsaid.
For example, if you workremotely, people can't socialize
anymore because they don't haveaccess to an office.
Well, it's like.
No, actually, some people cansometimes purchase access to a
WeWork and they do see people.
Working remotely doesn't meanthat people have to only be in
(07:58):
their house doing their remotework, so there is a lot more
freedom than maybe it soundslike when people think about
remote work.
And the other myth is people arenot connected if they work
remotely.
Now I can understand why peoplewould say that, but the most
connected cultures I've everbeen a part of have been remote,
most connected by far.
(08:18):
And I think the reason for thisis, if you think about it at
the end of the day, the minutewhere people are in an office
together human nature, all ofthis good stuff, politics arise
not because people want to, notbecause people are political
that's not what I mean butbecause all of a sudden, it
matters which office you're in,or if you're on a certain floor,
or if you get to see the personwho makes decisions more
(08:41):
frequently than someone else, orwho has lunch with whom.
I mean, I'm just, you know, itis human nature.
The thing about remote workingis and hybrid is different
because you have a combinationof some interaction in office,
some interactions remote, sothat again brings it some
challenges.
But the thing with remoteworking that's fascinating is
you have a lot of tooling nowthat allows people to be
(09:02):
connected socially and in termsof work, in terms of project
management and task management,and we can get into the actual
tools if we'd like.
But, for example, if you're onSlack and you're socializing and
you're also talking about workand you're going to social
channels at the same time,everybody in the company
globally, whether they're inWashington DC or Berlin, has the
(09:24):
same access to the CEO.
It's one Slack message away foreveryone, basically.
And of course, in practice it'sdifferent because people have
different roles and whether theyfeel comfortable approaching
decision makers is different.
But there is no limit to howpeople can communicate At the
same time.
If you're on a G meet,everybody's the same again, the
same access to the call.
(09:45):
You see that little window withpeople's face.
There isn't someone who's in anoffice sitting next to someone
and someone else who is actuallydialing in remotely, like we
used to have, like maybe in youknow, 2014, 2015, at the
beginning, when you had thesebig dial phones and you had some
people in the room, some peoplesomewhere else, um.
So the beauty of remote isreally that it's more
(10:06):
egalitarian and the connectivityhappens because with the right
tooling, you can onboard peoplevery socially.
You can get them onto the rightcalls.
You can use um things likelunapark to do games online.
You can use slack to have allsorts of slack channels for
jokes, for uh news, forinformation, for people who
share things like pets theyshare their, you know, we have
(10:27):
question of the week, forexample.
I always tell when people havea lot of fun having social time.
So, in effect, you can actuallybe very connected in a remote
company okay, there you go.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Technology means that you can actually connect.
There.
We are listeners.
Uh, in another linkedin post.
So there is me doing my ownwork, going all over your
LinkedIn, ahead of ourconversation today.
In another recent LinkedIn post, you wrote the following
Forgive me, it's a long quote,followed by a question.
Here we go.
In light of rising tariffs,it's clear that economic
(10:58):
uncertainty is here to stay.
The best way to createresilient companies is to
distribute talent globally Forpeople, teams.
Crisis management isn't justabout reactive measures.
It's about building resilientorganizational structures.
So the question is why isn'tmodern crisis management just
(11:18):
about having a plan B, ie why isit about building
geographically diverse teamsthat are resilient to global
challenges from the outset?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Well, we know what the problem is with the plan B.
I think it's called plan B fora reason.
It's not called plan A.
It's called plan B because it'snot actually what we had
intended to do and thereforeit's usually something that's
less than ideal by design.
Right, it's not something thatwe necessarily wanted to
entertain.
Now it's okay to have plan Bfor crisis management, but the
(11:50):
reason why I think teams shouldbe built, distributed by default
, is because we know fromexperience now that it is more a
much more resilient way to dobusiness.
I mean, take even today, liketwo hours ago in the news
blackout in spain and portugal.
So many workers don't haveaccess to uh electricity right
now.
They're trying to kind ofstruggling to get online some
(12:12):
companies.
I mean, we have many teammembers in spain and portugal,
so we have this emergencychannel now where we're
coordinating, but we have manyteam members in many other
countries too, and so you caneasily shift activity to a
different location and theimpact isn't felt as badly as it
could have been.
Same with COVID.
(12:32):
When COVID hit, I was working ata company called Elastic and of
course, in some countries wherethe lockdowns were in place, I
know people didn't think aboutselling then, but of course
companies still continuedactivities and the sales cycle
in countries where you closedeals face-to-face.
The sales cycle came to a haltin those countries that had
lockdowns.
(12:52):
But then if you're in so manycountries, even as a startup,
you realize that in thatparticular example lockdown
dates varied and so you had somecountries kept going and some
countries had lockdowns and thenyou kind of shifted.
If you really have onlycentered your operations in one
or two countries, it does makethe company more vulnerable to
(13:14):
any force majeure or anyunexpected events and crisis
management.
Then it does become reactive,not proactive, which I think is
a missed opportunity.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
You mentioned in your previous answer that it's
important to, for example,diversify workforce locations to
mitigate some of those regionaleconomic impacts.
What other practical tips mightyou have for leaders on the
back of what you just mentionedthere?
So, for example, perhapsoptimising workforce costs
through global talentacquisition is a good idea,
maybe building flexible teamstructures, maybe employing
(13:46):
folks that are frankly moreadaptable, that they're more
ready for changes that couldhappen at any moment.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yes, I think often people think about the topic of
global work through the lens offear and they will say things
like oh, this is about movingreally well-paid US jobs away
from the US economy and to cheaplabor locations and this is not
good for anyone.
And let's not fool ourselves.
Actually, so far, we haven'tseen evidence of that at all,
(14:15):
because, ultimately, here's thething about people and skills
and talent.
Companies need what they need.
They need certain skills, alevel of skill and talent that
they will always find in theexisting economies, like the US,
for example, except that youcan also get other talent from
other countries in addition toso, for example, I think
(14:38):
educational systems offer verydifferent strengths based on
countries.
We can't, of course, generalize, because talent really, at the
end of the day, varies fromindividual to individual, but
there are some countries aroundthe world that are very well
known for producing amazingengineers, for example, or very
creative talent engineers, forexample, or very creative talent
(15:01):
, and so it does make sense toreally tap into those talent
pools, knowing that I personallydon't see talent shifting away
from the existing markets wherewe are, you know, mostly in the
US and Western Europe, where westill need very much the
profiles that we've needed for along time, except we need to
open up opportunities to moremarkets so that we become more
resilient.
And it is also true that forcompanies at startup stage to
(15:24):
survive and to preserve theirburn rate, a strategy around
cost base for salaries isimportant.
So from that perspective,absolutely, if you have two
co-founders and they have astartup and they need to
preserve cash and make sure theyhave enough time to be
successful and seize theopportunity ahead of them, yeah,
of course, they're going tohave to think of how and where
(15:46):
to hire.
And this is where you know,oyster, like you know, is super,
super helpful because it givespeople access to talent in a
global way, so you get the bestpeople.
You can also manage budgets.
So the cost aspect does comeinto play, but it isn't about
(16:07):
removing opportunities and likeshifting them all to other areas
of the world.
I don't see that happening.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Marina, we're almost out of time.
I can't believe it.
I feel like we've only beenchatting for a few minutes.
We're definitely going to haveto get you on again soon.
Before we wrap up, though, twomore questions for you, uh, the
next one's a giant question.
It's kind of a ridiculous giantquestion, and I'm going to make
it more ridiculous bychallenging you to answer in 60
seconds or less.
But uh, give it a go.
Why not, uh, in 60 seconds orless?
(16:30):
Marina, how do you see thefuture of hr shaping up, and
where does Oyster fit into thatvision?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
For too long, work has felt like a cage to many
people, something that restrictstheir freedom.
For me, the future of work isto review and create working
practices through one simplelens, and that lens is to give
people as much freedom in theworkplace as possible, because
you can do great work in anenvironment that is a lot more
(16:58):
free than what we see on average.
And remote working comes intoplay here, and that's when a
company like oyster really helps, because it allows companies to
employ remotely and to know howto do it well excellent, you
had 10 plus seconds to spare.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
mar Marina, very, very good Did I.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Oh goodness, I didn't realise.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I should have made a 30 second challenge.
I'll know for next time.
Ok, just finally for today.
How can our listeners connectwith you?
I'd urge them to, for example,connect with you on LinkedIn,
because you do share a lot ofinteresting content.
I just want to say that.
So, maybe LinkedIn, maybe youremail address, maybe other
socials such as Instagram and,of course, how can they learn
more about Oyster?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Well, thank you so much for having me on this
episode and that was reallybrilliant.
So the way to connect with meis mostly LinkedIn.
I'm actually not that great atother social media, although
I've been told that I need toget my act together and be on
other platforms, so I need towork on that, but linkedin is
the best place, and followingthe oyster page on linkedin for
more news as well excellent, andI think the url is oysterhrcom,
(18:04):
and we'll have a link to all ofthat stuff, uh, in the show
notes listeners, so fear not ifyour pencils broke when you're
trying to write all of that down.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
uh, that just leads me to say for today, marina,
thank you very much for being myguest thank you so much, bill.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
It was great to talk to you and listeners as always.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Until next time, happy working thanks for
listening to the hr chat show.
If you enjoyed this episode,why not subscribe and listen to
some of the hundreds of episodespublished by HR Gazette and
remember for what's new in theworld of work?
Subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
(18:48):
HRGazettecom.
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