August 15, 2024 • 25 mins
Unlock the secrets of professional success through the transformative power of music with our guest, Bill Scheidt, Managing Partner at Sewa Beats.
Bill shares his life-changing experiences in Africa and how they inspired a unique approach to corporate training. Discover how music serves as a powerful metaphor for essential business skills like communication, leadership, and teamwork. Learn how experiential learning, enhanced by the principles of music, can significantly boost employee engagement and performance in leadership, diversity, equity, inclusion (DEI), and change management.
We also explore the scientific benefits of integrating music into leadership development programs, especially amid the challenges of the pandemic. From improved cognitive abilities to stress reduction, the impact of music on brain function is profound. Bill emphasizes the power of intention and its critical role in achieving personal and professional goals. Through the lens of music, we examine how setting clear intentions and valuing diverse contributions can foster a culture of inclusion and engagement. Tune in to understand the tangible benefits of experiential learning and DEI initiatives in organizational settings.
Questions for Bill include:
- Why is music as a metaphor for professional success?
- How does music connect to DEI?
- How does experiential learning connect with music?
- Sewa Beats’ clients include organizations such as BMW, Pfizer, Wells Fargo, Hewlett Packard, and the Harvard Business School. Can you share some use cases you're particularly proud of?
- Why is the ATD Conference an important event in the L&D and HR calendar?
- Any sessions at ATD that stuck out for you?
- What is the secret to setting clear intentions and how can it help accomplish one's goals?
We do our best to ensure editorial objectivity. The views and ideas shared by our guests and sponsors are entirely independent of The HR Gazette, HRchat Podcast and Iceni Media Inc.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's
most downloaded and sharedpodcasts designed for HR pros,
talent execs, tech enthusiastsand business leaders.
For hundreds more episodes andwhat's new in the world of work,
subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
hrgazettecom.
And visit hrgazettecom.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show.
Hello listeners, this is yourhost today, bill Bannam, and in
this episode we're going toconsider music as a metaphor for
success.
And my guest today has a reallycool name.
That's because he's called Bill.
He's called Bill Scheid,managing partner and maestro
over at Sewa Beats.
(00:46):
Before becoming the managingpartner of Sewa Beats, bill
spent a year and a half living,working and studying music in
Africa.
One of his first trips toAfrica was as the leader of an
ecology research project, wherehe designed a study around a
population of giraffes in anational park.
That sounds pretty awesome.
It was then that he first fellin love with Africa, its music
(01:11):
and its people.
Regularly returning to studymusic, bill learned Swahili
Blimey, I didn't know that.
Bill that's impressiveVolunteered to teach English in
a rural school and worked onlocal community outreach
initiatives.
He later went on to become aninstructor at the world's first
internationally recognizedacademy of west african drumming
(01:32):
, with the help of bill'sleadership, say, where beats has
delivered corporate programs inaround 20 countries, seven
languages and reached more than300000 participants around the
world.
Not too shabby, saber.
Beats clients includeorganizations such as BMW,
pfizer, wells Fargo,hewlett-packard and the Harvard
(01:54):
Business School.
Bill you, superstar.
Welcome to the show today.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Thanks, Bill.
Thanks for having me.
It's really a pleasure to behere.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
What a great name.
Don't go by William, you go bygood old Bill.
So good old Bill, why don't youstart by, beyond my
introduction there, why don'tyou start by taking a minute or
two and telling our listeners abit more about yourself, your
career background, before we'llthen get into the mission of the
company?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, thanks.
Well, that was a fantasticintroduction you gave me, I
think.
To add on to that, I can justadd a little bit about my
personal mission and why I dothe work that I do.
Going to Africa was anexperience that completely
changed my life and I was justso touched by the heart and the
community and the family valuesand the way people work together
(02:41):
in villages, and the way peoplework together in villages and
the music of West Africa wasparticularly an inspiration and
an expression of the heart andthe values of the people and the
culture there.
So for me, I do the work that Ido because it is a way of
paying forward what a blessingthat experience was, and it's
(03:02):
also a really fascinating way ofbringing experiential learning
into the HR world.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat
Podcast.
If you enjoy the audio contentwe produce, you'll love our
articles on the HR Gazette.
Learn more at HRGazettecom.
And now back to the show atHRGazettecom.
And now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Okay, thank you very much.
Let's get into the mission ofSay we're Beats.
Then Can you give us yourboilerplate.
In fact, let's challenge you,because we'll get into the
details later, but let'schallenge you straight off the
bat.
I like to do this with myguests, sometimes in 60 seconds
or less.
Give us the mission, and why?
(03:47):
Say we're Beats is an awesomeorganization.
Go.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I love the challenge.
Thank you Well, to sum it up, Iwould say that most HR
professionals are on a missionto help people learn, grow and
succeed.
I think that's why most HRprofessionals do what they do.
I think a lot of HRprofessionals worry, though,
about how to break through andget the attention of the people
(04:13):
that they're interacting withthe people in their teams.
So I think figuring out how toconnect with employees and how
to have a real impact isperplexing and can be a
challenge.
I mean, who wants to risk aninitiative that falls flat?
So we offer a differentmodality that connects message,
people and performance.
(04:34):
So we use the modality of musicwe are not another talking head
or another PowerPoint and,using music as a metaphor and
through experiential learning,we deliver training and
programming in areas likeleadership, dei, change
management and teamwork.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
OK, I'd say that was around about a minute.
So good work there, good work,ok.
So at the at the top of thisepisode today, I said that we
are going to consider music as ametaphor for success.
So next question for you is why?
Why, in your opinion, is musica metaphor for professional
success?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Yeah, that's a great question, Thank you, and music
as a metaphor for professionalsuccess is really the
underpinning of what we do.
That is the main idea of ourprograms and, if you think about
it, many of the skills thatmake us successful in the world
of music are often the sameskills that make us successful
(05:38):
as professionals in the businessworld.
So to be a successful musician,so to be a successful musician,
to be a successful professional,we have to be experts at skills
like communication, likelistening, like collaboration,
like adapting to change, likeleadership, like followership,
(05:59):
many of the skills that that weuse every day in a business
setting.
Those same skills, those sameprinciples, those are the same
skills that make use every dayin a business setting.
Those same skills, those sameprinciples, those are the same
skills that make us successfulin music and vice versa.
So we give people anopportunity to see those skills
and see how they show up asprofessionals through a new lens
(06:19):
, through the lens of music.
Sometimes we like to say we'renot going to teach you anything
you don't already know, butwe're going to give you the
opportunity to see what youalready know through a unique
perspective, or see how you showup your skillset, your
strengths in a new environment,and of course that is the
(06:40):
musical environment.
That is the musical environment.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
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Learn more at disrupthrco.
Okay, okay, thank you very much.
So SaberBeats clients includesome pretty impressive brands
BMW, wells Fargo, harvardBusiness School, just to name a
few there.
Would you like to take a coupleof minutes and shout about how
(07:37):
amazing you guys are by sharinga couple of use cases that
you're particularly proud of?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yeah, yeah, sure, absolutely.
I think one use case that I'mparticularly proud of is the
work that we've been doing witha very large pharmaceutical
company.
If I said their name, everybodyon this podcast would know
exactly who I was talking about.
They first came to us duringthe pandemic and they were doing
a leadership developmentprogram for people of color
(08:05):
specifically, and it was aninternational group.
It was a training that wentacross a period of time and they
brought us in as a capstone.
So they said, hey, these are thelearning objectives we've been
training our leaders on, and wewould like you to design an
experiential program thatsummarizes all of these learning
(08:27):
objectives and gives theparticipants a chance to
experience these learningobjectives in real time, in real
life, summarize and reallyfinish this whole leadership
(08:49):
development journey on a highnote in a way that's going to be
impactful and helps people takeaway these learnings and apply
them when they're actually onthe job.
And we ended up running a seriesof those virtually.
They were so successful theycontinued to invite us back for
future cohorts and then many ofthe leaders from that leadership
development program have goneon to have very successful
(09:09):
careers in that company, intheir own business units and
then have brought us into workwith their specific teams at
their global headquarters atother locations around the world
, both live and virtually.
So I think that was a greatexample of being adaptive, first
of all, to figure out how to doexperiential learning through
(09:30):
music via Zoom in the pandemic,and then I think it's also a
great example of how music isreally impactful and it can help
drive learning in a way that isunforgettable, in a way that
people remember and in a waythat they're inspired to take
back to their teammates andshare.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Is there any clever science-y stuff that you can add
to that answer?
You know, for example, doesmusic do special things to our
gray matter to inspire us andmake us perform better?
What's the science behind usingmusic to stimulate higher
performance?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So there's really two mainareas there.
So brain structure and brainfunction.
There's a lot of research outthere that shows that musicians
have larger and moredevelopedosum, and that is the
area that connects the left andright hemispheres of the brain,
(10:37):
and that structural changefacilitates communication
between the two hemispheres andimproves overall cognitive
function.
And then, speaking of function,there's some research out there
, of course, that says listeningto music can activate the
release of dopamine, right,that's the neurotransmitter
associated with pleasure andreward, and that can improve
(10:58):
mood, increase motivation andreduce stress.
Of course motivation and dealingwith stress are big in the
business world today.
And then, of course, playingmusic so we were just talking
about listening to music.
But playing music can improvecognitive abilities such as
memory, attention, focus andlanguage processing.
(11:19):
In fact, one study found thatchildren, especially who
received music training, hadhigher scores on verbal memory
tests than those who did notreceive training.
Not receive training.
And there's some researchbrewing out there that is
translating also some of thosesame learnings to the world of
adult learning.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
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Okay, so, bill, as we recordthis particular interview, I've
just finished a bit of awhirlwind tour of a bunch of big
conferences in the US and inthe UK.
Before I take a bit of a hiatusas I'm going on paternity,
leave you and I first met at oneof the amazing conferences that
(12:27):
I got to go back to again thisyear.
We met last year at the ATDconference, which I believe last
year was in San Diego.
I managed to get a ball game inwhat an amazing stadium.
And then we we called up againthis year in New Orleans in May.
Why is ATD an awesome event andwhy is it a good fit for you
(12:48):
guys?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
a great question.
By by the way, congratulationsagain on your paternity leave.
I know that's very exciting,yeah.
So why is ATD such a greatevent?
For me, I love ATD because ofthe international presence of so
many folks from HR and talentdevelopment, so many different
organizations.
(13:09):
It's such an opportunity tolearn from each other, to
connect with each other, to getideas, to stay current on what's
going on.
The people that you meet thereare just fantastic Case in point
, right.
You and I probably would havenever met unless we were both at
ATD.
So I think the opportunity toengage and connect is just
(13:32):
really inspiring.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Okay, so you were there for a few days.
I'm sure you got to see acouple of sessions outside of
being on the exhibitor standthere.
What sessions stood out for youand why?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Great question.
So I really enjoyed the sessionthat was put on by Sardique
Love.
He spoke on engagement and Ithink engagement is very it's
critical In this day and age.
We have to engage the peoplethat we're working with, and
what I really appreciated abouthis presentation was not only
(14:12):
was it focused on engagement,but it was very practical and
very down to earth and it tied alot into experiential learning,
and, of course, experientiallearning is what we do, and we
had the opportunity to do apresentation there as well,
which was just super fun andsuper exciting for us.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
So the ideas, the cross-pollination there, I
thought was just fascinating andreally interesting now then, as
part of my homework ahead oftoday's chit chat, uh, I was all
over your website and uh,looking through your blog.
Lots of awesome content inthere, so well done to you.
(14:51):
In one of the blog posts, whichwas called the power of
intention in achieving goals,which was written earlier in
2024, you discussed how settingclear intentions can be a game
changer in accomplishing one'sgoals.
Can you tell us a bit moreabout that?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
yeah, yeah, absolutely.
You know, I think we we grow upin a culture that says you know
, hard work, dedication,planning those are crucial for
achieving our goals.
And I think we should also notunderestimate the context of
goal achievement.
(15:31):
For me, I refer to that as themental state of committing to a
specific outcome or objective,so that's beyond just a vague
desire.
Yeah, I think I want to do this.
I think I want to do that.
It's a conscious decision and adeliberate focus on what we
want to achieve, and there's alot of research in psychology
(15:51):
that has explored theeffectiveness of the power of
intention.
Studies have shown that settingspecific, challenging and
achievable goals with a clearintention increases our
motivation and performance.
I think there's also some verypowerful connections with
visualization, so mentallypicturing ourselves successfully
(16:14):
achieving our goals and this isalso for me as a performing
musician.
Visualization is something thatI actually used quite a lot, and
I think there are also somepretty practical tips that we
can all avail ourselves fortraining the power of intention.
Experiential learning, forexample, is a very potent way to
(16:35):
develop the power of intention,and the experience of learning
to play music is a powerfulcontext for that.
So experiential learning thatgives us the opportunity to
practice setting an intentionand then participate in the
process of actually achievingthat intention.
So, as a metaphor, learning toplay music is a particularly
(16:56):
effective tool, because whenwe're learning to play music, we
get immediate and directfeedback as to our degree of
success in manifesting ourintended outcome.
So in the world of music, theintended outcome may be to play
this piece or to play thispassage.
Of course, in our businesslives it may be to accomplish a
(17:16):
specific goal or a specificintention, but I think that the
power of intention is a verypowerful force and it's
supported by a lot of scientificresearch.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
And just going back to the ATD piece for a moment,
I'm guessing you're prettyunique there as an exhibitor,
right?
I'm guessing there weren't manyother organizations out there
that are espousing what you guysare talking about.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
what we're discussing today Is that fair to say, and
they say, wow, what is this?
It immediately grabs people'sattention because, yeah, there
are not very many other peopleout there in the world doing
what we do, and that's also, Ithink, one of the things that
makes our program so engaging iswhen a group of employees walks
(18:02):
into a room and they see a roomfull of drums that are there
for them to play.
That is quite a unique andoutside-the-box experience for a
lot of people.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah, I mean, I saw the drums last year and I had to
stop.
It took me back to many, manyyears ago when I was a young man
before I had gray hair where Iworked in a store, uh, in a
little village on the northnorfolk coast in england where,
um, uh, the the boss of the theshop.
He used to regularly go over tobali and buy lots of drums and
bamboo didgeridoos and variousthings.
(18:33):
In fact, my secret superpoweris I can play the didgeridoo.
So it brought back lots ofhappy memories for me.
So the next couple of questionsI want to ask of you, bill, are
actually questions that I askedyou to suggest to me.
I said, bill, shoot over acouple of questions or a couple
of topics that you'd beinterested in making sure that
we cover.
So I want to make sure we coverthose now.
The next question, therefore,is how does music connect to DEI
(18:56):
?
Tell us more.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
I really love the topic of DEIand I find that music is such a
powerful metaphor for diversity,equity and inclusion.
You know everything, from theway that we value the unique
voice of each instrument to theway that we try to balance sound
when we're when we're workingon a microphone mix.
There are a lot of lessons frommusic that connect to what does
(19:21):
it mean to create a culturethat values DEI?
I think, for example, let'sjust start with diversity.
So does every instrument in anensemble look the same or sound
the same?
No, does every instrument playthe same part at the same time?
No, so we don't pretend thatevery instrument is the same.
In fact, we recognize eachinstrument is different and we
(19:43):
value those differences, becauseit's exactly those differences
that make the music sound richand textured, and in the same
way that it's the diversityamongst instruments that makes
for a great musical performance.
There's a lot of research outthere economic geography, a
bunch of other publications thathave found that companies with
(20:04):
diverse leadership are morelikely to come up with
innovative products than thoselacking in diversity.
There's another study I readrecently that companies with one
or more female board membersproduced higher return on equity
and net income growth thanthose with all male boards.
I think another great exampleis inclusion.
(20:25):
So in the musical world, is thespotlight continually shining
on just one instrument and if so, does that make for an
interesting and engagingensemble?
Or does it sound better when wetry to create an environment in
which each instrument has theopportunity to make its unique
and individual contribution in away that it's heard, recognized
(20:47):
and valued?
And in our organization, or inorganizations in general, that
connects to the idea of creatinga culture in which employees
are heard, recognized and valuedfor the unique strengths and
perspectives that they bring tothe table.
And of course, we know thatinclusion generates engagement
and engagement generates results.
(21:08):
There was a study done by anauthor results.
There was a study done by anauthor, hajab Azam, and in that
publication, in that research,they found that organizations
with high engagement rates beatindustry averages for profit
margins, revenue growth andshareholder returns.
So there's a lot of researchout there on the power of DEI
(21:30):
and what I particularly loveabout music as a metaphor for
dei is that people get it rightaway because it's a physical,
tangible, direct experience.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So we're not learning about dei, but we're having an
experience of dei quite a nicelead into the next question, um,
although I feel like, in a way,maybe because of the discussion
we had a little while agoaround the different parts of
the cerebellum and, and uh, theimpact of music on gray matter,
we may have tackled this alittle bit.
Therefore, I'm going tochallenge you to answer this
(22:01):
next one in 60 seconds or less.
Here we go.
Uh, how does, how does billexperiential learning connect
with music?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
yeah, that's great thanks, and I love your 60
second challenges.
So there's a very well-knowncognitive scientist named David
Kolb, and he wrote one of themost influential books in the
field of experiential learning,and his model for experiential
learning has four elements.
So element number one isconcrete experience, so we
(22:29):
experience the process oflearning to play music together.
One is concrete experience, sowe experience the process of
learning to play music together.
Step two is reflectiveobservation, so we ask ourselves
hey, what worked, what didn't,what professional skills made a
difference for us in learning toplay that music, leadership,
communication, collaboration, etcetera.
Step three is abstractconceptualization.
So then we make connectionsbetween what we learned during
(22:50):
the collective music makingexperience and what we do every
day on the job as professionals.
And then step four in Kolb'smodel is active experimentation,
and that's where we apply theselearnings to successfully
complete the piece of music thatwe're working on.
And then we apply those samelearnings in our professional
lives to successfully producethe results that we're aiming
(23:14):
for.
So one of Kolb's main tenets isthat for knowledge to be
serviceable, it has to belearned through experience.
So if not, the knowledge iskind of isolated from experience
and we're not likely to reallyapply it to new situations, to
new situations.
So we use the musicalenvironment to create
(23:35):
experiences which bring forthspecific learnings around topics
like we're talking about hereleadership, dei, change
management and then we invitethe participants to draw
connections between theexperiential learning through
music and what they do every dayon the job as professionals.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And that just takes us to my final question for you.
Today should be a fairlystraightforward one for you,
bill, and that is how can folksconnect with you?
So maybe that's LinkedIn, maybeyou might want to share your
email address, perhaps you'resuper cool and all over
Instagram and places.
And, of course, how can folkslearn more about Say what Beats?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Oh yeah, thank you very much for the question, so I
would say the best place tostart is our website, which is
SewaBeatsUSAcom.
Sewa is S-E-W-A.
Sewabeatsusacom.
I'm also, of course, onLinkedIn under the name Bill
Scheid, and you can see a bunchof videos of Sewa Beats programs
, how it works, what we do, etcetera, on our YouTube channel,
(24:31):
which is also under the name Saywhat Beats.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Perfect.
Well, that just leaves me tosay for today Bill Scheid, thank
you very much for being myguest.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Thanks, Bill.
It's really a pleasure chattingwith you.
Thanks for having me today.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I should just get more guests on here, cool Bill,
it'd be so easy to remembertheir names that way.
And listeners as always.
Until next time, happy working.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show.
If you enjoyed this episode,why not subscribe and listen to
some of the hundreds of episodespublished by HR Gazette and
remember for what's new in theworld of work?
Subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
HRGazettecom.
Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's
most downloaded and sharedpodcasts designed for HR pros,
talent execs, tech enthusiastsand business leaders.
For hundreds more episodes andwhat's new in the world of work,
subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
hrgazettecom.
And visit hrgazettecom.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show.
Hello listeners, this is yourhost today, bill Bannam, and in
this episode we're going toconsider music as a metaphor for
success.
And my guest today has a reallycool name.
That's because he's called Bill.
He's called Bill Scheid,managing partner and maestro
over at Sewa Beats.
(00:46):
Before becoming the managingpartner of Sewa Beats, bill
spent a year and a half living,working and studying music in
Africa.
One of his first trips toAfrica was as the leader of an
ecology research project, wherehe designed a study around a
population of giraffes in anational park.
That sounds pretty awesome.
It was then that he first fellin love with Africa, its music
(01:11):
and its people.
Regularly returning to studymusic, bill learned Swahili
Blimey, I didn't know that.
Bill that's impressiveVolunteered to teach English in
a rural school and worked onlocal community outreach
initiatives.
He later went on to become aninstructor at the world's first
internationally recognizedacademy of west african drumming
(01:32):
, with the help of bill'sleadership, say, where beats has
delivered corporate programs inaround 20 countries, seven
languages and reached more than300000 participants around the
world.
Not too shabby, saber.
Beats clients includeorganizations such as BMW,
pfizer, wells Fargo,hewlett-packard and the Harvard
(01:54):
Business School.
Bill you, superstar.
Welcome to the show today.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Thanks, Bill.
Thanks for having me.
It's really a pleasure to behere.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
What a great name.
Don't go by William, you go bygood old Bill.
So good old Bill, why don't youstart by, beyond my
introduction there, why don'tyou start by taking a minute or
two and telling our listeners abit more about yourself, your
career background, before we'llthen get into the mission of the
company?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, thanks.
Well, that was a fantasticintroduction you gave me, I
think.
To add on to that, I can justadd a little bit about my
personal mission and why I dothe work that I do.
Going to Africa was anexperience that completely
changed my life and I was justso touched by the heart and the
community and the family valuesand the way people work together
(02:41):
in villages, and the way peoplework together in villages and
the music of West Africa wasparticularly an inspiration and
an expression of the heart andthe values of the people and the
culture there.
So for me, I do the work that Ido because it is a way of
paying forward what a blessingthat experience was, and it's
(03:02):
also a really fascinating way ofbringing experiential learning
into the HR world.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat
Podcast.
If you enjoy the audio contentwe produce, you'll love our
articles on the HR Gazette.
Learn more at HRGazettecom.
And now back to the show atHRGazettecom.
And now back to the show.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Okay, thank you very much.
Let's get into the mission ofSay we're Beats.
Then Can you give us yourboilerplate.
In fact, let's challenge you,because we'll get into the
details later, but let'schallenge you straight off the
bat.
I like to do this with myguests, sometimes in 60 seconds
or less.
Give us the mission, and why?
(03:47):
Say we're Beats is an awesomeorganization.
Go.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I love the challenge.
Thank you Well, to sum it up, Iwould say that most HR
professionals are on a missionto help people learn, grow and
succeed.
I think that's why most HRprofessionals do what they do.
I think a lot of HRprofessionals worry, though,
about how to break through andget the attention of the people
(04:13):
that they're interacting withthe people in their teams.
So I think figuring out how toconnect with employees and how
to have a real impact isperplexing and can be a
challenge.
I mean, who wants to risk aninitiative that falls flat?
So we offer a differentmodality that connects message,
people and performance.
(04:34):
So we use the modality of musicwe are not another talking head
or another PowerPoint and,using music as a metaphor and
through experiential learning,we deliver training and
programming in areas likeleadership, dei, change
management and teamwork.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
OK, I'd say that was around about a minute.
So good work there, good work,ok.
So at the at the top of thisepisode today, I said that we
are going to consider music as ametaphor for success.
So next question for you is why?
Why, in your opinion, is musica metaphor for professional
success?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Yeah, that's a great question, Thank you, and music
as a metaphor for professionalsuccess is really the
underpinning of what we do.
That is the main idea of ourprograms and, if you think about
it, many of the skills thatmake us successful in the world
of music are often the sameskills that make us successful
(05:38):
as professionals in the businessworld.
So to be a successful musician,so to be a successful musician,
to be a successful professional,we have to be experts at skills
like communication, likelistening, like collaboration,
like adapting to change, likeleadership, like followership,
(05:59):
many of the skills that that weuse every day in a business
setting.
Those same skills, those sameprinciples, those are the same
skills that make use every dayin a business setting.
Those same skills, those sameprinciples, those are the same
skills that make us successfulin music and vice versa.
So we give people anopportunity to see those skills
and see how they show up asprofessionals through a new lens
(06:19):
, through the lens of music.
Sometimes we like to say we'renot going to teach you anything
you don't already know, butwe're going to give you the
opportunity to see what youalready know through a unique
perspective, or see how you showup your skillset, your
strengths in a new environment,and of course that is the
(06:40):
musical environment.
That is the musical environment.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
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(07:07):
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Speaker 2 (07:16):
Learn more at disrupthrco.
Okay, okay, thank you very much.
So SaberBeats clients includesome pretty impressive brands
BMW, wells Fargo, harvardBusiness School, just to name a
few there.
Would you like to take a coupleof minutes and shout about how
(07:37):
amazing you guys are by sharinga couple of use cases that
you're particularly proud of?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yeah, yeah, sure, absolutely.
I think one use case that I'mparticularly proud of is the
work that we've been doing witha very large pharmaceutical
company.
If I said their name, everybodyon this podcast would know
exactly who I was talking about.
They first came to us duringthe pandemic and they were doing
a leadership developmentprogram for people of color
(08:05):
specifically, and it was aninternational group.
It was a training that wentacross a period of time and they
brought us in as a capstone.
So they said, hey, these are thelearning objectives we've been
training our leaders on, and wewould like you to design an
experiential program thatsummarizes all of these learning
(08:27):
objectives and gives theparticipants a chance to
experience these learningobjectives in real time, in real
life, summarize and reallyfinish this whole leadership
(08:49):
development journey on a highnote in a way that's going to be
impactful and helps people takeaway these learnings and apply
them when they're actually onthe job.
And we ended up running a seriesof those virtually.
They were so successful theycontinued to invite us back for
future cohorts and then many ofthe leaders from that leadership
development program have goneon to have very successful
(09:09):
careers in that company, intheir own business units and
then have brought us into workwith their specific teams at
their global headquarters atother locations around the world
, both live and virtually.
So I think that was a greatexample of being adaptive, first
of all, to figure out how to doexperiential learning through
(09:30):
music via Zoom in the pandemic,and then I think it's also a
great example of how music isreally impactful and it can help
drive learning in a way that isunforgettable, in a way that
people remember and in a waythat they're inspired to take
back to their teammates andshare.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Is there any clever science-y stuff that you can add
to that answer?
You know, for example, doesmusic do special things to our
gray matter to inspire us andmake us perform better?
What's the science behind usingmusic to stimulate higher
performance?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So there's really two mainareas there.
So brain structure and brainfunction.
There's a lot of research outthere that shows that musicians
have larger and moredevelopedosum, and that is the
area that connects the left andright hemispheres of the brain,
(10:37):
and that structural changefacilitates communication
between the two hemispheres andimproves overall cognitive
function.
And then, speaking of function,there's some research out there
, of course, that says listeningto music can activate the
release of dopamine, right,that's the neurotransmitter
associated with pleasure andreward, and that can improve
(10:58):
mood, increase motivation andreduce stress.
Of course motivation and dealingwith stress are big in the
business world today.
And then, of course, playingmusic so we were just talking
about listening to music.
But playing music can improvecognitive abilities such as
memory, attention, focus andlanguage processing.
(11:19):
In fact, one study found thatchildren, especially who
received music training, hadhigher scores on verbal memory
tests than those who did notreceive training.
Not receive training.
And there's some researchbrewing out there that is
translating also some of thosesame learnings to the world of
adult learning.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
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improving human performance andwe're proud to support the HR
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Speaker 2 (12:07):
Learn more at Fidelocom.
Okay, so, bill, as we recordthis particular interview, I've
just finished a bit of awhirlwind tour of a bunch of big
conferences in the US and inthe UK.
Before I take a bit of a hiatusas I'm going on paternity,
leave you and I first met at oneof the amazing conferences that
(12:27):
I got to go back to again thisyear.
We met last year at the ATDconference, which I believe last
year was in San Diego.
I managed to get a ball game inwhat an amazing stadium.
And then we we called up againthis year in New Orleans in May.
Why is ATD an awesome event andwhy is it a good fit for you
(12:48):
guys?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
a great question.
By by the way, congratulationsagain on your paternity leave.
I know that's very exciting,yeah.
So why is ATD such a greatevent?
For me, I love ATD because ofthe international presence of so
many folks from HR and talentdevelopment, so many different
organizations.
(13:09):
It's such an opportunity tolearn from each other, to
connect with each other, to getideas, to stay current on what's
going on.
The people that you meet thereare just fantastic Case in point
, right.
You and I probably would havenever met unless we were both at
ATD.
So I think the opportunity toengage and connect is just
(13:32):
really inspiring.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Okay, so you were there for a few days.
I'm sure you got to see acouple of sessions outside of
being on the exhibitor standthere.
What sessions stood out for youand why?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Great question.
So I really enjoyed the sessionthat was put on by Sardique
Love.
He spoke on engagement and Ithink engagement is very it's
critical In this day and age.
We have to engage the peoplethat we're working with, and
what I really appreciated abouthis presentation was not only
(14:12):
was it focused on engagement,but it was very practical and
very down to earth and it tied alot into experiential learning,
and, of course, experientiallearning is what we do, and we
had the opportunity to do apresentation there as well,
which was just super fun andsuper exciting for us.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
So the ideas, the cross-pollination there, I
thought was just fascinating andreally interesting now then, as
part of my homework ahead oftoday's chit chat, uh, I was all
over your website and uh,looking through your blog.
Lots of awesome content inthere, so well done to you.
(14:51):
In one of the blog posts, whichwas called the power of
intention in achieving goals,which was written earlier in
2024, you discussed how settingclear intentions can be a game
changer in accomplishing one'sgoals.
Can you tell us a bit moreabout that?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
yeah, yeah, absolutely.
You know, I think we we grow upin a culture that says you know
, hard work, dedication,planning those are crucial for
achieving our goals.
And I think we should also notunderestimate the context of
goal achievement.
(15:31):
For me, I refer to that as themental state of committing to a
specific outcome or objective,so that's beyond just a vague
desire.
Yeah, I think I want to do this.
I think I want to do that.
It's a conscious decision and adeliberate focus on what we
want to achieve, and there's alot of research in psychology
(15:51):
that has explored theeffectiveness of the power of
intention.
Studies have shown that settingspecific, challenging and
achievable goals with a clearintention increases our
motivation and performance.
I think there's also some verypowerful connections with
visualization, so mentallypicturing ourselves successfully
(16:14):
achieving our goals and this isalso for me as a performing
musician.
Visualization is something thatI actually used quite a lot, and
I think there are also somepretty practical tips that we
can all avail ourselves fortraining the power of intention.
Experiential learning, forexample, is a very potent way to
(16:35):
develop the power of intention,and the experience of learning
to play music is a powerfulcontext for that.
So experiential learning thatgives us the opportunity to
practice setting an intentionand then participate in the
process of actually achievingthat intention.
So, as a metaphor, learning toplay music is a particularly
(16:56):
effective tool, because whenwe're learning to play music, we
get immediate and directfeedback as to our degree of
success in manifesting ourintended outcome.
So in the world of music, theintended outcome may be to play
this piece or to play thispassage.
Of course, in our businesslives it may be to accomplish a
(17:16):
specific goal or a specificintention, but I think that the
power of intention is a verypowerful force and it's
supported by a lot of scientificresearch.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
And just going back to the ATD piece for a moment,
I'm guessing you're prettyunique there as an exhibitor,
right?
I'm guessing there weren't manyother organizations out there
that are espousing what you guysare talking about.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
what we're discussing today Is that fair to say, and
they say, wow, what is this?
It immediately grabs people'sattention because, yeah, there
are not very many other peopleout there in the world doing
what we do, and that's also, Ithink, one of the things that
makes our program so engaging iswhen a group of employees walks
(18:02):
into a room and they see a roomfull of drums that are there
for them to play.
That is quite a unique andoutside-the-box experience for a
lot of people.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah, I mean, I saw the drums last year and I had to
stop.
It took me back to many, manyyears ago when I was a young man
before I had gray hair where Iworked in a store, uh, in a
little village on the northnorfolk coast in england where,
um, uh, the the boss of the theshop.
He used to regularly go over tobali and buy lots of drums and
bamboo didgeridoos and variousthings.
(18:33):
In fact, my secret superpoweris I can play the didgeridoo.
So it brought back lots ofhappy memories for me.
So the next couple of questionsI want to ask of you, bill, are
actually questions that I askedyou to suggest to me.
I said, bill, shoot over acouple of questions or a couple
of topics that you'd beinterested in making sure that
we cover.
So I want to make sure we coverthose now.
The next question, therefore,is how does music connect to DEI
(18:56):
?
Tell us more.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
I really love the topic of DEIand I find that music is such a
powerful metaphor for diversity,equity and inclusion.
You know everything, from theway that we value the unique
voice of each instrument to theway that we try to balance sound
when we're when we're workingon a microphone mix.
There are a lot of lessons frommusic that connect to what does
(19:21):
it mean to create a culturethat values DEI?
I think, for example, let'sjust start with diversity.
So does every instrument in anensemble look the same or sound
the same?
No, does every instrument playthe same part at the same time?
No, so we don't pretend thatevery instrument is the same.
In fact, we recognize eachinstrument is different and we
(19:43):
value those differences, becauseit's exactly those differences
that make the music sound richand textured, and in the same
way that it's the diversityamongst instruments that makes
for a great musical performance.
There's a lot of research outthere economic geography, a
bunch of other publications thathave found that companies with
(20:04):
diverse leadership are morelikely to come up with
innovative products than thoselacking in diversity.
There's another study I readrecently that companies with one
or more female board membersproduced higher return on equity
and net income growth thanthose with all male boards.
I think another great exampleis inclusion.
(20:25):
So in the musical world, is thespotlight continually shining
on just one instrument and if so, does that make for an
interesting and engagingensemble?
Or does it sound better when wetry to create an environment in
which each instrument has theopportunity to make its unique
and individual contribution in away that it's heard, recognized
(20:47):
and valued?
And in our organization, or inorganizations in general, that
connects to the idea of creatinga culture in which employees
are heard, recognized and valuedfor the unique strengths and
perspectives that they bring tothe table.
And of course, we know thatinclusion generates engagement
and engagement generates results.
(21:08):
There was a study done by anauthor results.
There was a study done by anauthor, hajab Azam, and in that
publication, in that research,they found that organizations
with high engagement rates beatindustry averages for profit
margins, revenue growth andshareholder returns.
So there's a lot of researchout there on the power of DEI
(21:30):
and what I particularly loveabout music as a metaphor for
dei is that people get it rightaway because it's a physical,
tangible, direct experience.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So we're not learning about dei, but we're having an
experience of dei quite a nicelead into the next question, um,
although I feel like, in a way,maybe because of the discussion
we had a little while agoaround the different parts of
the cerebellum and, and uh, theimpact of music on gray matter,
we may have tackled this alittle bit.
Therefore, I'm going tochallenge you to answer this
(22:01):
next one in 60 seconds or less.
Here we go.
Uh, how does, how does billexperiential learning connect
with music?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
yeah, that's great thanks, and I love your 60
second challenges.
So there's a very well-knowncognitive scientist named David
Kolb, and he wrote one of themost influential books in the
field of experiential learning,and his model for experiential
learning has four elements.
So element number one isconcrete experience, so we
(22:29):
experience the process oflearning to play music together.
One is concrete experience, sowe experience the process of
learning to play music together.
Step two is reflectiveobservation, so we ask ourselves
hey, what worked, what didn't,what professional skills made a
difference for us in learning toplay that music, leadership,
communication, collaboration, etcetera.
Step three is abstractconceptualization.
So then we make connectionsbetween what we learned during
(22:50):
the collective music makingexperience and what we do every
day on the job as professionals.
And then step four in Kolb'smodel is active experimentation,
and that's where we apply theselearnings to successfully
complete the piece of music thatwe're working on.
And then we apply those samelearnings in our professional
lives to successfully producethe results that we're aiming
(23:14):
for.
So one of Kolb's main tenets isthat for knowledge to be
serviceable, it has to belearned through experience.
So if not, the knowledge iskind of isolated from experience
and we're not likely to reallyapply it to new situations, to
new situations.
So we use the musicalenvironment to create
(23:35):
experiences which bring forthspecific learnings around topics
like we're talking about hereleadership, dei, change
management and then we invitethe participants to draw
connections between theexperiential learning through
music and what they do every dayon the job as professionals.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And that just takes us to my final question for you.
Today should be a fairlystraightforward one for you,
bill, and that is how can folksconnect with you?
So maybe that's LinkedIn, maybeyou might want to share your
email address, perhaps you'resuper cool and all over
Instagram and places.
And, of course, how can folkslearn more about Say what Beats?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Oh yeah, thank you very much for the question, so I
would say the best place tostart is our website, which is
SewaBeatsUSAcom.
Sewa is S-E-W-A.
Sewabeatsusacom.
I'm also, of course, onLinkedIn under the name Bill
Scheid, and you can see a bunchof videos of Sewa Beats programs
, how it works, what we do, etcetera, on our YouTube channel,
(24:31):
which is also under the name Saywhat Beats.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Perfect.
Well, that just leaves me tosay for today Bill Scheid, thank
you very much for being myguest.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Thanks, Bill.
It's really a pleasure chattingwith you.
Thanks for having me today.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I should just get more guests on here, cool Bill,
it'd be so easy to remembertheir names that way.
And listeners as always.
Until next time, happy working.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show.
If you enjoyed this episode,why not subscribe and listen to
some of the hundreds of episodespublished by HR Gazette and
remember for what's new in theworld of work?
Subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
HRGazettecom.
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