December 16, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode, Bill Banham sits down with Jennifer McClure, founder of DisruptHR, to explore how HR leaders can turn people strategy into measurable business results, build credible investment cases, and lead in an era where AI is reshaping work faster than plans can keep up.
We start by tackling one of HR’s toughest barriers: resistance. Why do leaders shy away from quantifying problems, modeling outcomes, and tying people initiatives directly to business strategy? Jennifer shares a practical, trust-building approach to business cases—define the pain or opportunity, run the numbers, make predictions, and commit to measurement.
From there, we look at HR’s historical roots in welfare and regulation to understand why some processes still lag today—and how to disrupt what no longer serves the organization. Think fewer blanket policies, more targeted solutions, and an uncompromising focus on value.
The conversation widens to DisruptHR’s global impact—170+ licensed cities and more than 10,000 lightning talks—and why its simple format continues to surface powerful ideas across cultures. We also dig into AI’s accelerating influence on work, the shift from a scarcity of people to a scarcity of skills, and why upskilling and reskilling must be tied directly to evolving roles.
Jennifer also reframes personal branding for HR leaders as career management: share what you’re learning, cite credible sources, invite debate, and build trust through consistent, useful contributions.
We close with some straight talk on manager training: attendance is not impact. Start with outcomes, measure behavior change, and require application in the flow of work.
If you’re ready to move HR from compliance to catalyst—and help your organization thrive amid uncertainty—this episode offers clear, practical steps you can use today.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:02):
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SPEAKER_02 (00:25):
Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show.
Hello, listeners.
This is your host today, BillBatham.
And back on the show is uh HRRoyalty, Jennifer McClure,
founder of Disrupt HR.
Jennifer, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_01 (00:40):
I'm doing well.
If if I'm royalty, do I get anystipends?
Does anybody pay me anythingjust for existing?
SPEAKER_02 (00:46):
Uh they absolutely should.
Yes.
And and we can we can leave adonation link in the show notes.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
I would like to be supported as every royal family
is.
SPEAKER_02 (00:59):
Well, uh let less family members at the moment
look like they're beingsupported, but uh that's a
different conversation for adifferent time.
Um so the the the conversationtoday is a bit of a catch-up.
We we spoke uh on this show lessthan a year ago.
So before uh before jumping onwith you today, I was doing my
homework and finding out whatyou're getting up to, what
(01:20):
you've what you've been doing inthe last little while.
So let's start with you recentlyhighlighted uh five mindset
shifts that leaders need at themoment.
Which which one do HR leadersmost resist?
And how can you or how can theypractice in in this quarter and
the next quarter?
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
Uh I mean, I think HR leaders and well, leaders in
general really resist a lot ofthings when it comes to getting
uncomfortable and discomfort,but I think they resist um
building the business case forwhat they need to do.
It's still kind of our mode ofoperation as leaders to say, I
(01:59):
heard about this thing, itsounds like the right thing to
do, I'm gonna go ask for moneyto do it, you know, instead of
sitting down and saying, I needto figure out what problem I'm
solving in my organization orwhat opportunity I can take
advantage of.
And then I need to run thenumbers to define that problem
or opportunity, and I need tomake some predictions and
projections about if we do thisor we don't do that, you know,
(02:22):
how that's going to impact thebottom line and the finances.
And is this even related to ourgoals?
So I think the resistance aroundgetting real clarity on how we
can impact business goals andwork on problems and
opportunities that are focusedon our organization's needs,
it's just too easy to both lookat shiny things or to do
(02:44):
nothing.
And that's where I think a lotof us fail.
SPEAKER_00 (02:47):
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(03:07):
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SPEAKER_02 (03:15):
You and I were chatting before we hit record
today, Jen.
And uh regular listeners of thisshow will know that uh I'm
involved with a bunch of thedisrupt events and I love them,
and I'm always espousing howawesome they are to anybody that
I will meet.
Uh, one of the chapters I'minvolved with is Disrupt London.
Um and uh you mentioned to me uhthat you had recently spoken uh
(03:37):
at the New York uh chapter, andapparently they have just had uh
Disrupt New York 30.0.
So we are hot on their heels inLondon.
So you did a talk in New York,and your session was um was
challenging assumptions uh aboutHR.
(03:58):
Um why don't you why don't youtell us more?
What did you what did you speakabout?
How was the event?
What were some of the hope forout learning outcomes?
SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
Sure.
I don't remember the exacttitle, but I think it was uh
something like HR is broken, uh,and instead of fixing it, let's
disrupt it instead.
Uh and I I do believe that, youknow.
Well, I do believe that a lot ofpeople believe HR is broken.
I don't think it's broken.
I think it just needs to betransformed and disrupted.
Because if we look back at thehistory of human resources,
(04:26):
which started out as theemployee welfare department at
National Cash Register, about 30miles from me here in Dayton,
Ohio, in the 40s, I believe.
It was set up as, you know, awelfare department to, you know,
to help employees take care ofkind of their personal needs.
You know, it was wartime and uhthey started within the unions
came after that.
So it became a lot of um really,you know, focused on individual
(04:50):
needs and making sure that we'rekeeping people in line through
regulations.
And a lot of us have not evolvedfrom that.
I think, you know, in the 80s,when I started in HR, it was
definitely still administrativeand personnel.
And since then, I do think manyHR leaders have been able to
make that leap into really beinga leader in the business who has
(05:10):
HR expertise and who does focuson the strategies that are
needed to, you know, to alignthe people strategy to the
business strategy.
But too many and it of peopleand too much of HR is still
focused on outdated systems andprocesses that are really
aligned to the way HR was setup.
So I think we need to bust thosesystems.
We need to think about again howwe can add real impact, how we
(05:33):
can make sure we're moving awayfrom compliance and consistency
to making sure that we arehelping our organizations to
thrive in uncertainty and beingsomeone who uses data to
understand the real challengesin the business.
So, you know, I don't believe HRis broken.
I believe the systems need tochange that we were set up to
maintain, uh, and also themindset needs to be changed.
(05:56):
And I am thrilled to see, youknow, when I do get the
opportunity to go to disrupt HRevents or I have opportunity to
watch some of the videos as I'muploading the thousands we get
every year.
Um, I I am encouraged and itgives me hope when I see how
some people are viewing theworld of HR or sharing their,
(06:17):
you know, successes or whatthey've tried or something
they've implemented.
And that was why Disrupt HR wascreated, to really not only give
people an opportunity toshowcase those ideas, but also
for others to be able to hearthem and get inspired.
So at New York, I tried to talkabout how I think we're on the
path to leading disruption andtransformation, and many people
(06:37):
are already leading on thatpath, but it's time for the rest
of the profession to come along.
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
Okay, very good.
Is your video live now on Bimeoand on the disrupt website for
the viewing pleasure of ourlisteners?
SPEAKER_01 (06:51):
It's not yet.
Uh it was just two weeks ago, soprobably within the next couple
of weeks.
Um, you know, we have some, it'salways fun.
Some organizers, one this yearsent me their videos the very
next day.
And I'm like, wow, what whoa.
Um, and then some of the peopleI'm chasing for videos three to
four months down the road.
So, you know, what what doestend to happen is they all come
(07:11):
in at the same time.
So, right now, today, forexample, when we're recording
this, is October 23rd, 2025.
And it is a uh, I don't knowwhat we call it in Disrupt HR
world, but today around theworld, well, actually in North
America, there are 13 Disrupt HRevents scheduled for today.
Um, which, you know, last yearwas a record year for Disrupt HR
(07:34):
events.
This year will be, we'll beatthat record in terms of the
number of events around heldaround the world.
In some months, we don't evenhave 13 events.
You know, some of the lightermonths, spring and fall, you
know, they're heavier.
October was the busiest monthlast year.
We will have more events thisyear, but to have 13 in one day,
and again, I looked at um Mondaywhen I did our newsletter to
(07:55):
share on LinkedIn.
Uh, there are a couple in Canadaon both sides of Canada.
There's one in Monterey, inMonterey, Mexico, so we got the
southern part of North Americacovered.
And then in the US, they'reliterally completely spread.
You know, there's one inSeattle, there's one in Tampa,
there's one in Phoenix, there'sone in um, you know, or
(08:18):
somewhere up in the northeast,and then there are a bunch in
the middle of the country.
So it's, you know, that'sexciting to see.
Uh, but I also look at that andgo, that means videos from 13
cities are coming my way,probably all on the same day,
and everybody's gonna be like,can you get them about tomorrow?
unknown (08:32):
Like, you know, I do my best.
SPEAKER_02 (08:35):
Okay, so when we last spoke, I think you you
mentioned that there were over9,000 videos on the disrupt
website.
We we we've got to be touching10,000 now, haven't we?
SPEAKER_01 (08:46):
Uh we're we're I believe we're over 10,000 now.
We are definitely at uh on Vimeowhere we we post our videos and
pay for the hosting.
We are about to hit seventerabytes of storage, which is
the limit on video.
So that you know they're sendingme emails now about quote custom
pricing.
So that sounds scary.
(09:06):
Um, but seven terabytes of uhdisrupt HR videos out there.
And again, yeah, I haven'tlooked at the exact number.
I think last time I looked itwas like 9,800 and something.
Um, so it's definitely probablywell, it will go over 10,000
this month if it's not already.
SPEAKER_02 (09:22):
Oh my gosh.
Um, I'm stepping up, I'm doing afew more myself.
I I I I keep telling people howto do them, but I've only done a
couple so far.
So I've got two or three linedup over the next little while.
Um okay, so 13, 13 events in oneday.
How many cities have hosted adisrupt over the years?
SPEAKER_01 (09:40):
Oh, I could look that up.
But um right now we have I Icount the numbers at the end of
every month, but I also have aspreadsheet with all the
licensed cities.
We have over 170 licensed citiesin 32 countries now, I believe.
Um, and we've never, you know,for years, even you know,
pre-TAM pandemic, when DisruptHR was really growing, um, and
(10:02):
then we, you know, a bunch ofpeople found different
priorities after the pandemicand neither didn't renew the
licenses and we dropped backdown to 130 something, I think.
Now we're back, we've hit goneover 170 licensed cities around
the world.
So um, you know, again, that'sexciting to see that disrupt HR
it it doesn't seem to losesteam.
You know, maybe someday, youknow, it will be something that
(10:25):
that people did in the past.
And, you know, there are licenseholders every so often who
they've been doing it for yearsand they they don't renew the
license because they just eitherwant to let someone else take it
on or their priorities havechanged.
But it seems like, and it's it'salways fun for me to see the new
new cities, new regions come on,and you know, nothing's really
(10:46):
popping to mind right now.
But uh to see disrupt HR come tocities that I actually have to
look up on the map, you know,geography, world geography may
not be my strong suit in theanyways, but when I'm like,
okay, I've heard of that countrybefore, but where is this city?
Um, that excites me.
And and to have more aninternational locations where
(11:07):
the videos are not in English.
Um, and also to see, you know,many of our organizers in some
of our international cities havetold me that, you know, it's an
honor and a challenge.
I mean, honor might be the wrongword, for people to give a talk
in English.
So they actually want to give adisrupt HR talk so they can give
it in English.
(11:28):
And I admire that because Ican't imagine giving a disrupt
HR talk, which is already achallenge in not your native
language.
Um, so that's that again, youknow, to to see people challenge
themselves in a variety of waysto share their ideas, uh, to
fight that fear of getting up onstage and speaking, and for many
(11:51):
even seasoned speakers to fightthe fear of the 15-second, you
know, slides.
Um, it's it's uh fun to see thevideos that I do get to see or
the conversations that I do getto have.
And then in the Middle East andin some of our, you know,
Eastern European cities, itseems like they're really making
it all day events, you know,with Disrupt HR talks either
(12:14):
spread throughout the day or aportion of their event.
And when I see photos onLinkedIn or posts on LinkedIn,
people are addressed, you know,very formally in suits and they
post again about the honor of uhyou know being asked to present
at Disrupt HR.
So to see the, and that's we'vealways allowed our organizers
to, you know as long as theyhave five-minute talks with 20
(12:35):
slides in advance every 15seconds, as long as they hold at
least one live event a year, aslong as they record the talks
and nobody pitches or cells,they really can make the feel of
their events or set up theevents however they want that's
going to match with theircommunity.
And and I think that's part ofwhat makes Disrupt HR
successful.
You can go to an event inIslamabad, Pakistan, and it's an
(12:58):
all-day event on Saturday, andyou dress up in a suit and you
give your talk, you know, inEnglish, and uh you're very
honored, or you can go to, youknow, I won't pick on a city,
but a city where it's held in abar and there's 30 people there,
and uh, you know, somebody'sgrandma is doing the video and A
of V.
So, you know, that that uh Ilike that about Disrupt HR.
SPEAKER_02 (13:21):
My first experience of disrupts was with the Toronto
chapter when I was living overthere.
And uh I've always taken theirapproach to the events I'm
involved with.
Um i.e.
I'll get up on stage and I'llsay, you know, this is not like
another one of those dry HRevents.
We're pretty chill here, we'requite nice people.
Yes, we'll brush our hair, but Ialways wear jeans, you know, and
(13:43):
we try and keep it relaxed.
I I don't think you'll ever findme in a suit at a disrupt event.
Oh, there we go.
That's just that's just me.
Um okay, continuing through,let's talk a bit about your 2025
trends conversation, Jen.
You you mapped out the bigshifts at the beginning of this
year, shaping talent strategy.
Which one of those has maybeaccelerated the fastest since
(14:04):
the beginning of 2025?
And what what's your updatedplaybook look like?
SPEAKER_01 (14:09):
You know, I I I failed to look at my 25 trends
that we talked about, or 2025,but I can assure you that like
most people who do predictionsand trends every year, I was
probably wrong on a few of them.
I was probably right aroundsaying that we're going to be
dealing with you know constantchange and disruption.
I I was, if I did say that, Iwas remiss on uh the pace of
(14:30):
change and the level ofdisruption I think that uh
people around the world in thebusiness world and in life in
general have experienced.
I don't think um, you know,obviously AI is completely new.
You know, the internet was newat one time, social media was
new at one time, the industrialrevolution, the printing press
was new at one time, you know,so no one really knew what any
(14:51):
of those changes would mean.
But I think with AI, it's justit's it's disrupting, you know,
the workplace, our lives.
And I don't think any of usreally have a good idea of how
exactly we're going to beinteracting with it, using it,
how it's going to take over ourlives and become our our
(15:11):
overlords.
I don't, I don't know.
So I think anyone who's talkingabout 2026, which of course
we're getting into predictionseason, we'll start to see those
posts show up on LinkedIn maybein November.
Um, and I'm sure I'll write onetoo.
But you know, we we have toconsider I keep talking about
(15:31):
and I'm trying to focus leaderson, making sure that we are
looking at AI as a way toempower our employees, um, a way
for them to enhance their workthat they do, to focus on more
strategic activities.
And when you say that, I meansomebody who's doing data entry
is not going to focus on more,you know, but they should be
(15:53):
looking at how they're going toupscale themselves so that, you
know, new jobs will be createdthat are coming from this.
And that is where, particularly,I think, HR people leaders, L
and D, recruiting, we're in thatspace of, okay, yeah, AI is
disrupting the world and theworkplace and changing the way
we do things and making some youknow activities and jobs no
(16:16):
longer necessary.
But we have to be in that spaceand that mindset of thinking
about, you know, before AIreally became a thing two or
three years ago, uh, we were allpredicting a talent shortage.
And we've been predicting that,you know, for 20 plus years.
McKinse predicted it back, youknow, for 2020, back in 19 or in
(16:37):
2000.
Uh, so we've been saying there'snot going to be enough bodies to
perform the work.
The demographics are in ourfavor in the UK and in the US
and in more of the developedcountries in some of the you
know uh lesser developedcountries, the population may be
exploding, but that's not wherethe jobs and the work are today.
So we've had that challenge thatwe were kind of thinking about,
(16:58):
well, if there's not gonna beenough people, how do we get the
work done?
Um now we're gonna maybe havestill not enough people, but
we're gonna have an excess ofpeople who don't have the skills
that we need to do the jobs thatwe will have today and in the
future.
So if you're not thinking aboutas a leader in general, as a
C-suite leader, uh, as abusiness owner, as a people
(17:20):
leader who works in one of thoseHR-related um, you know,
functions, if you're notthinking about how we're going
to give people, get people theskills and allow them to upskill
and reskill and focus oncontinuous learning, you are
already behind the eight-balland you're just going to get
left in the dust, I think, youknow, over the next few months,
because that's gonna be the coreissue is we don't have the
(17:43):
people who have the skills to dothe jobs.
And even then, with the peoplethat are available, there aren't
enough of them.
So, how do we get those peoplethe valuable skills that they
need to do the jobs of today andthe future when we can't even
predict what the future is gonnalook like in a couple of months?
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
I feel like you've articulated that situation
better than pretty much anyguest that held this show when
I've when I've tried to probethem.
So good work.
I feel like you've done thisbefore.
Um, yeah, you you joined the Nowof Work podcast this summer,
Jen, to talk about authenticity.
I think you like, did I?
And personal branding.
(18:20):
Um, what's your advice to HRleaders who want to build a
brand without feelingperformative?
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
For me, the core of it is that too many people look
at personal branding or youknow, taking control of how
other people view them as amarketing activity.
You know, I I don't want to be,I've heard it a thousand times.
I don't want to be like atoothpaste on the shelf.
I feel icky marketing myself.
And I'm like, you have to viewthis as a career management
tool.
(18:46):
You have to view this as a wayto get access to opportunities
that you want to be involved in,things you want to learn.
You know, the reality is forsince the beginning of time, you
know, people have gottenopportunities because they're
either asking for them or peopleknow that they're interested in
them.
Other people in the workplacelook at that and they go, Oh,
(19:06):
that's favoritism.
You just promoted your favorite.
And I don't think that's thecase.
There was a Disruptive DartToronto talk way early in the
beginning, one of their firstevents that I've always said is
one of my favorites, where thetitle of the talk, which is what
drew me in to watch the video,was why you should play
favorites in leadership.
Um, and and to me, that's thewhole point of disruptive.
(19:27):
Take a common concept, flip it,flip it, and you know, make your
case for why you should do that.
So it was a great talk, and andwhat she talked about is what
I'm talking about now.
These people that are your quotefavorites are the ones who are
actually doing the work, who aremaking it known what they're
doing, who are sharing wherethey want to go and what they
do.
You know, the people that youactually have to probe and dig
(19:48):
and go ask them what they'd liketo do in their career.
Uh, you know, sure, as a leader,I should be having those
conversations with my people.
But when opportunities come,who's the first person that
comes to mind?
It's the person who's beenmaking it known that they're
either doing that already orthey want to do that.
So that's how we should be, youknow, and HR people, uh, people
(20:11):
leaders again often are of themindset, well, I kind of want to
be in the background, I'msupporting other people.
I'm like, that is great.
And it's part of the role.
However, if you want to do moreof something, if you want to
grow your career, if you want tobe known as a person who's an
expert in this, you have to tellpeople what you know.
So you're not marketing yourselfas a tube-to-toothpaste, you're
(20:32):
simply sharing what you do.
If we just basic content, justshare what you know.
I mean, LinkedIn is full ofposts every day.
Uh, many of them are justcontent for content's sake for
people who are just, you know,going to ChatGPT and say, write
a LinkedIn post for me.
And it sounds like it waswritten by Chat GPT.
But if you just say, hey, likewe were talking before we
started recording, you went tothe HR Tech conference.
(20:54):
After the HR Tech conference,when you went, write a post on
LinkedIn, or if you do have ablog or a website, or even to
share on your company internet.
I attended HR Tech last week.
Here's what I learned.
Here's what I saw is happeningin the industry.
Here are some trends that Ithink we should be paying
attention to either in ourprofession or in our industry or
our company.
Share what you're talking about,what you're learning, what
(21:16):
you're curious about, what yourquestions are.
I mean, I try to share when Isubscribe to a lot of research,
you know, reports.
I get emails from McKinsey, fromGallup, you know, those those
organizations that are doingstudies, et cetera.
When I get an interesting study,I try to share that on LinkedIn.
I read this post from the Guildgroup who did a meeting of Minds
of 12 CHROs, and here's whattheir predictions were of where
(21:40):
HR is headed in the future.
Here's what I think about that.
What do you think about that?
That that is what thoughtleadership is.
You don't have to have theanswers, but thought leadership
is both curating what's going onaround you, having an opinion
about it, sharing it, beingwilling and open to uh create
conversation around that so thatyou can learn from other
(22:01):
people's thoughts and ideas.
So the basic concept of uhreally tending to your personal
brand, just share what you know.
People often ask me, you know,they'll reach out and say, hey,
I'd like to be a professionalspeaker like you, Jennifer.
Can we get on a 60-minute Zoomcall, which we can't just have
old school phone calls anymore.
I don't know why.
We can't just talk on the phone.
(22:22):
Uh, let's get on a Zoom call.
And I'd love to get your, youknow, pick your brain uh on how
to become a professionalspeaker.
And I'm like, teach what youknow.
I started teaching people how touse LinkedIn back when LinkedIn
was relatively new.
That turned into people invitingme into their organizations to
teach their leaders how to useLinkedIn, how to use their HR,
you know, how their HRrecruiting team could use
LinkedIn.
(22:42):
And then I realized I reallylike this speaking thing.
What other things do I know thatI can teach people?
Uh and now I teach people how tobe, you know, leaders and thrive
in the future of work becausethat's where I'm interested,
what I'm interested in, and whatI'm constantly learning and what
I want to share with people.
So that's an impassioned longanswer to your question of what
is personal branding and why isit important and what should we
(23:04):
be doing?
Just teach what you know.
SPEAKER_02 (23:07):
Love it.
Thank you.
Um, yeah, I miss the audiocalls, by the way.
But when I started doing thispodcast in 2016, nobody asked
you to put the video on.
You didn't have to have thecamera on.
But you know, these days it'sit's a complete social paper.
SPEAKER_01 (23:22):
Well, and now when you do a podcast interview, you
need to ask the question like,is this also gonna be a video?
Because I have too many videosout there on the internet of me
uh not looking camera readybecause I didn't know we were
doing a video podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
Uh I I did what you just mentioned there, actually,
uh, on the back of um HR Tech,uh two days later, I had a
disrupt in Manchester and um I Ishared my my findings with the
audience there, but they glazedover a little bit.
So I did a truncated I did atruncated version at Disrupt
Noric the following week, andthey seemed to like that a bit
more.
So I think it was perhaps to dowith my delivery.
(24:00):
Um just a couple more questionsfor you for today, Jen.
Your SHERM executive networkpiece focused on leadership
development.
If you had to redesign managertraining for 2026, what would
you cut, keep, and create?
SPEAKER_01 (24:14):
Well, that Sherm article was uh someone from
SHERM actually came to my mysession at the SHERM annual
conference where I'm talkingabout HR being the chief
disruption officer and leadingtransformation in the future.
Um but you know, how should theyredesign training or think about
it in the future again?
I think we need to we need tohave a different mindset when it
comes to to learning anddevelopment rather than just
(24:36):
creating courses or contentaround a popular topic and um or
something that we know leadersneed.
I mean, I always joke about howmany of us have been sent to you
know dealing with difficultpeople or how to how to read
financial statements as an HRperson.
You know, there's there's youknow, skills again that we need
to develop, but we have to againtake the mindset of this is
(24:58):
about creating a learningenvironment.
And we also need to make surethat the training and learning
and development that we areoffering to our employees is not
just measured by attendance.
Okay, we had this trainingcourse, 60 people attended, you
know, or 60 people were invitedand 55 of them showed up.
So 97% success rate, whateverthat math is.
(25:18):
Um, and that's how we've oftenmeasured, quote, success in
learning and development in thepast was who showed up, who
attended, who got thecertificate.
What we need to do is when we'redesigning training and
development for organizations,is say what are the outcomes
that will come as a result ofpeople attending this training?
What will they be able to domore of?
What impact will they have onone of our business goals and
(25:39):
objectives?
What was the number for the, youknow, rev top line revenue
before we sent all of oursalespeople to this training?
And then six months later, didthat go up as a result of what
they learned in that training?
And can we pinpoint what theydid differently as a result of
that training?
So it's really much more, Ithink, about focusing on before
(25:59):
we even start the training, whatare the outcomes that we're
trying to generate?
How are we going to measuresuccess of those outcomes?
Again, what what is it today?
How are we going to measure thatit actually, you know, was
impacted positively after thetraining?
And that's where we have tofocus.
Because we, especially in apost-pandemic world when you
know more people have figuredout how to do training even on
(26:21):
their own time, you know, fortheir own enjoyment.
They watch LinkedIn learningcourses or YouTube videos, or
they learning opportunity is allaround us.
So the challenge now, again,when you have uh a plethora of
options, is to say what isreally important?
What is it that I need todevelop uh, you know, or work on
or learn in order to do my jobwith the way my job is changing
(26:44):
and the skills that are neededto do my job are changing.
And then how can I both umtarget that training, get the
training that I need, but thenalso measure how it well, how
effective it was for me afterI've done it?
You know, the fact that Iwatched a LinkedIn training
course on, you know,implementing AI and HR in 2025.
(27:06):
I'm sure there is one out thereon that.
You know, what's five things youcan do with AI and HR?
Okay, I watched that.
Great.
Did I do any of those?
Did I try one?
You know, the goal before Istart the training should be I'm
going to pick at least one thingthat I learned from this
training and I'm going toactually do it.
Um, you know, just watching thetraining is not enough.
And I think that's the mindsetshift, both for the trainees and
(27:29):
the people who are developingthe training that needs to
happen.
SPEAKER_02 (27:32):
Loving all of these answers.
Uh, just finally for today, howcan our listeners connect with
you?
And as part of your answer, asHR royalty, Jen, um what's
what's the right way of goingabout, you know, if if if some
bozo like me wants to reach outto a big old celeb in the
industry um and and start aconversation with them for the
first time, what what's theright way of doing that?
(27:52):
What what what's the rightapproach?
What works for you as opposed tomessages that perhaps just turn
you off and you don't want toget back to them?
SPEAKER_01 (27:58):
Oh, the messages that turn me off are the ones
that uh that lists, you know,write some uh message on
LinkedIn or send me an email andsay, you know, I've been
following your work for years.
I'd love to schedule a call andtalk about how we can partner.
Because partner often means youwant in on some some of my
business when we don't know eachother, you know.
(28:18):
So uh you're reaching out to meout of the blue, out of you
know, nowhere, wanting topartner means that you're you're
trying to build your business,not mine, more than likely.
And maybe I'm wrong in some ofthose cases, but most often not.
What I tell people, if you wantto connect with uh, you know,
more than just follow someone,uh do follow their work, but
(28:41):
also engage with them on theirwork.
You know, sign up for mynewsletter, reply.
I ask every week or every twoweeks when I send my news.
I'd love for you to reply andtell me what you know you
thought about this or whatever,because that's a I'm trying to
generate a conversation.
I'm trying to get to know youback to what I said earlier.
I'm sharing what I know, but I'dlike to know what you think
about what I said.
You know, what are your ideasdifferent?
(29:01):
So when you truly want to engagewith someone that you haven't
met or you don't know, uh followtheir work, engage with it.
Often people will see me at aconference or event and they're
go, I love what you post onLinkedIn.
I'm like, uh, I I don'trecognize your name.
I've never seen you like a postor comment on it.
And you might think that'svanity, but again, I'd love to
(29:22):
know that something I saidresonated with you or that you
disagree with it, or you have adifferent take, as you know,
let's all be respectful, andmost people are.
Um, that's how we can't thereare numerous people that are in
my network today.
I I always share the example ofBruce Waller, a gentleman here
in the US who's a a VP at arelocation company, you know, so
(29:44):
people that relocate when youget a new job and you have to
relocate across the country, uh,Bruce will help you.
So, you know, if you see someonelike Bruce reaching out to you
on LinkedIn who says they wantto, you know, have a Zoom call
and figure out how we canpartner, I'm immediately
thinking Bruce wants to sell meon something because I don't do
relocation.
Uh, he's obviously his targetcustomers are probably in the HR
(30:05):
industry.
But very early on when I startedmy podcast back in 2018, uh, I
had seen Bruce's name.
Again, he'd interacted with mycontent that I posted on
LinkedIn and stuff.
But he would listen to mypodcast every week.
And then he would, in his notesapp on his phone, take notes
about some of the things heliked or that he learned or that
you know he really resonatedwith him in the podcast.
(30:26):
And then he would share that onsocial media, on LinkedIn or to
his Instagram profile.
You know, love listening to theImpact Makers podcast this week.
Here's five things I learned.
Again, sharing what he learned,but that also caused me to say,
wow, Bruce is somebody whoreally does, you know, does it
right, who is a connector, who'sa relationship builder.
(30:48):
He's not just telling me, youknow, he wants to reach out to
me and he never has because hewants to partner.
But, you know, I invited Bruceto connect on LinkedIn because I
see him sharing my content.
I want to, you know, beconnected to this person who's
doing it right and buildingrelationships.
And, you know, since then I'vebeen a guest on Bruce's podcast,
and he's written a couple ofbooks, and I have them, and I
(31:09):
see him now speaking atconferences and events.
That's someone that I can saythe relationship developed
because this person wasvalidating my ideas or you know,
sharing their own perspective onit, sharing it, you know, adding
value to their network byhelping to spread my message.
And that's somebody I do want toread, you know, have
(31:29):
conversations with and beconnected with.
So the easiest way to get athought leader, or you know, if
you you want to thank someone'sroyalty's attention is engage
with their content, you know,read, sign up for the
newsletter, reply to theirnewsletter, tell them you like
it.
Because I spent three hours onmy email newsletter that I sent
out this week, and it's lessthan 750 words, but I
(31:50):
thoughtfully try to curatesomething that people will get
value from.
So when Claire Strowe in the US,who's someone that again I've
connected with similarly, who'salways engaged with my work, and
now I recommend her to speak atevents because I've seen her
speak a couple of times.
So when I send my newsletter at7:35 a.m.
and at nine o'clock, Clairereplies to my newsletter and
(32:13):
says, Love this newsletter.
I'm adding the podcast yourecommended to my queue to
listen to.
I love Claire for that, and Iwill continue to recommend her
for speaking engagements andopportunities and find ways to
help her grow her career and herbrand because I'm invested in
her now as well because of therelationship we've developed
over the years.
(32:33):
But she continues to stayengaged with me by making sure
that I know she's out therepaying attention.
SPEAKER_02 (32:39):
Bruce, Claire, if you're listening, we love you.
Uh, I just want to add a thirdperson there who's always
fantastic at uh commenting onposts and interacting and
sharing and all the rest of it,is a mutual friend of ours, uh
Steve Brown.
So, Steve, if you're listening,uh you you do it right, sir.
You are a rock star.
Jen McConnell.
SPEAKER_01 (32:59):
A comment from Steve Brown or Lori Rudeman on your
LinkedIn post is go goal becausenow if you look, LinkedIn shows
impress or impressions oncomments or um, and if Steve or
Lori comment on your post, theydrive hundreds of impressions to
your post.
So that's another way, again,you can give as someone who
maybe has a large network.
When you comment and engage andinteract with other people's
content, you bring your networkwith you to their content.
SPEAKER_02 (33:22):
Very good.
Very good.
Uh that just leads me to say fortoday, Jen McClure.
Thank you very much for ourregular catch-up here today.
Uh I'll I'll be hounding youagain in the last six months for
another one of these.
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
Would love it.
SPEAKER_02 (33:35):
Uh listeners, as always, until next time, happy
working.
SPEAKER_03 (33:42):
Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show.
If you enjoyed this episode, whynot subscribe and listen to some
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SPEAKER_02 (00:25):
Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show.
Hello, listeners.
This is your host today, BillBatham.
And back on the show is uh HRRoyalty, Jennifer McClure,
founder of Disrupt HR.
Jennifer, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_01 (00:40):
I'm doing well.
If if I'm royalty, do I get anystipends?
Does anybody pay me anythingjust for existing?
SPEAKER_02 (00:46):
Uh they absolutely should.
Yes.
And and we can we can leave adonation link in the show notes.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
I would like to be supported as every royal family
is.
SPEAKER_02 (00:59):
Well, uh let less family members at the moment
look like they're beingsupported, but uh that's a
different conversation for adifferent time.
Um so the the the conversationtoday is a bit of a catch-up.
We we spoke uh on this show lessthan a year ago.
So before uh before jumping onwith you today, I was doing my
homework and finding out whatyou're getting up to, what
(01:20):
you've what you've been doing inthe last little while.
So let's start with you recentlyhighlighted uh five mindset
shifts that leaders need at themoment.
Which which one do HR leadersmost resist?
And how can you or how can theypractice in in this quarter and
the next quarter?
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
Uh I mean, I think HR leaders and well, leaders in
general really resist a lot ofthings when it comes to getting
uncomfortable and discomfort,but I think they resist um
building the business case forwhat they need to do.
It's still kind of our mode ofoperation as leaders to say, I
(01:59):
heard about this thing, itsounds like the right thing to
do, I'm gonna go ask for moneyto do it, you know, instead of
sitting down and saying, I needto figure out what problem I'm
solving in my organization orwhat opportunity I can take
advantage of.
And then I need to run thenumbers to define that problem
or opportunity, and I need tomake some predictions and
projections about if we do thisor we don't do that, you know,
(02:22):
how that's going to impact thebottom line and the finances.
And is this even related to ourgoals?
So I think the resistance aroundgetting real clarity on how we
can impact business goals andwork on problems and
opportunities that are focusedon our organization's needs,
it's just too easy to both lookat shiny things or to do
(02:44):
nothing.
And that's where I think a lotof us fail.
SPEAKER_00 (02:47):
The HR Chat Podcast is one of the world's most
popular shows, offering insightsand tips from HR pros, business
leaders, industry influencers,and tech experts.
World of work topics coveredinclude HR tech, AI, leadership,
talent, recruitment, employeeengagement, wellness, DEI, and
company culture.
(03:07):
Check out the latest HR chatepisodes on your podcast
platform of choice and read thelatest articles at
hrgazette.com.
SPEAKER_02 (03:15):
You and I were chatting before we hit record
today, Jen.
And uh regular listeners of thisshow will know that uh I'm
involved with a bunch of thedisrupt events and I love them,
and I'm always espousing howawesome they are to anybody that
I will meet.
Uh, one of the chapters I'minvolved with is Disrupt London.
Um and uh you mentioned to me uhthat you had recently spoken uh
(03:37):
at the New York uh chapter, andapparently they have just had uh
Disrupt New York 30.0.
So we are hot on their heels inLondon.
So you did a talk in New York,and your session was um was
challenging assumptions uh aboutHR.
(03:58):
Um why don't you why don't youtell us more?
What did you what did you speakabout?
How was the event?
What were some of the hope forout learning outcomes?
SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
Sure.
I don't remember the exacttitle, but I think it was uh
something like HR is broken, uh,and instead of fixing it, let's
disrupt it instead.
Uh and I I do believe that, youknow.
Well, I do believe that a lot ofpeople believe HR is broken.
I don't think it's broken.
I think it just needs to betransformed and disrupted.
Because if we look back at thehistory of human resources,
(04:26):
which started out as theemployee welfare department at
National Cash Register, about 30miles from me here in Dayton,
Ohio, in the 40s, I believe.
It was set up as, you know, awelfare department to, you know,
to help employees take care ofkind of their personal needs.
You know, it was wartime and uhthey started within the unions
came after that.
So it became a lot of um really,you know, focused on individual
(04:50):
needs and making sure that we'rekeeping people in line through
regulations.
And a lot of us have not evolvedfrom that.
I think, you know, in the 80s,when I started in HR, it was
definitely still administrativeand personnel.
And since then, I do think manyHR leaders have been able to
make that leap into really beinga leader in the business who has
(05:10):
HR expertise and who does focuson the strategies that are
needed to, you know, to alignthe people strategy to the
business strategy.
But too many and it of peopleand too much of HR is still
focused on outdated systems andprocesses that are really
aligned to the way HR was setup.
So I think we need to bust thosesystems.
We need to think about again howwe can add real impact, how we
(05:33):
can make sure we're moving awayfrom compliance and consistency
to making sure that we arehelping our organizations to
thrive in uncertainty and beingsomeone who uses data to
understand the real challengesin the business.
So, you know, I don't believe HRis broken.
I believe the systems need tochange that we were set up to
maintain, uh, and also themindset needs to be changed.
(05:56):
And I am thrilled to see, youknow, when I do get the
opportunity to go to disrupt HRevents or I have opportunity to
watch some of the videos as I'muploading the thousands we get
every year.
Um, I I am encouraged and itgives me hope when I see how
some people are viewing theworld of HR or sharing their,
(06:17):
you know, successes or whatthey've tried or something
they've implemented.
And that was why Disrupt HR wascreated, to really not only give
people an opportunity toshowcase those ideas, but also
for others to be able to hearthem and get inspired.
So at New York, I tried to talkabout how I think we're on the
path to leading disruption andtransformation, and many people
(06:37):
are already leading on thatpath, but it's time for the rest
of the profession to come along.
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
Okay, very good.
Is your video live now on Bimeoand on the disrupt website for
the viewing pleasure of ourlisteners?
SPEAKER_01 (06:51):
It's not yet.
Uh it was just two weeks ago, soprobably within the next couple
of weeks.
Um, you know, we have some, it'salways fun.
Some organizers, one this yearsent me their videos the very
next day.
And I'm like, wow, what whoa.
Um, and then some of the peopleI'm chasing for videos three to
four months down the road.
So, you know, what what doestend to happen is they all come
(07:11):
in at the same time.
So, right now, today, forexample, when we're recording
this, is October 23rd, 2025.
And it is a uh, I don't knowwhat we call it in Disrupt HR
world, but today around theworld, well, actually in North
America, there are 13 Disrupt HRevents scheduled for today.
Um, which, you know, last yearwas a record year for Disrupt HR
(07:34):
events.
This year will be, we'll beatthat record in terms of the
number of events around heldaround the world.
In some months, we don't evenhave 13 events.
You know, some of the lightermonths, spring and fall, you
know, they're heavier.
October was the busiest monthlast year.
We will have more events thisyear, but to have 13 in one day,
and again, I looked at um Mondaywhen I did our newsletter to
(07:55):
share on LinkedIn.
Uh, there are a couple in Canadaon both sides of Canada.
There's one in Monterey, inMonterey, Mexico, so we got the
southern part of North Americacovered.
And then in the US, they'reliterally completely spread.
You know, there's one inSeattle, there's one in Tampa,
there's one in Phoenix, there'sone in um, you know, or
(08:18):
somewhere up in the northeast,and then there are a bunch in
the middle of the country.
So it's, you know, that'sexciting to see.
Uh, but I also look at that andgo, that means videos from 13
cities are coming my way,probably all on the same day,
and everybody's gonna be like,can you get them about tomorrow?
unknown (08:32):
Like, you know, I do my best.
SPEAKER_02 (08:35):
Okay, so when we last spoke, I think you you
mentioned that there were over9,000 videos on the disrupt
website.
We we we've got to be touching10,000 now, haven't we?
SPEAKER_01 (08:46):
Uh we're we're I believe we're over 10,000 now.
We are definitely at uh on Vimeowhere we we post our videos and
pay for the hosting.
We are about to hit seventerabytes of storage, which is
the limit on video.
So that you know they're sendingme emails now about quote custom
pricing.
So that sounds scary.
(09:06):
Um, but seven terabytes of uhdisrupt HR videos out there.
And again, yeah, I haven'tlooked at the exact number.
I think last time I looked itwas like 9,800 and something.
Um, so it's definitely probablywell, it will go over 10,000
this month if it's not already.
SPEAKER_02 (09:22):
Oh my gosh.
Um, I'm stepping up, I'm doing afew more myself.
I I I I keep telling people howto do them, but I've only done a
couple so far.
So I've got two or three linedup over the next little while.
Um okay, so 13, 13 events in oneday.
How many cities have hosted adisrupt over the years?
SPEAKER_01 (09:40):
Oh, I could look that up.
But um right now we have I Icount the numbers at the end of
every month, but I also have aspreadsheet with all the
licensed cities.
We have over 170 licensed citiesin 32 countries now, I believe.
Um, and we've never, you know,for years, even you know,
pre-TAM pandemic, when DisruptHR was really growing, um, and
(10:02):
then we, you know, a bunch ofpeople found different
priorities after the pandemicand neither didn't renew the
licenses and we dropped backdown to 130 something, I think.
Now we're back, we've hit goneover 170 licensed cities around
the world.
So um, you know, again, that'sexciting to see that disrupt HR
it it doesn't seem to losesteam.
You know, maybe someday, youknow, it will be something that
(10:25):
that people did in the past.
And, you know, there are licenseholders every so often who
they've been doing it for yearsand they they don't renew the
license because they just eitherwant to let someone else take it
on or their priorities havechanged.
But it seems like, and it's it'salways fun for me to see the new
new cities, new regions come on,and you know, nothing's really
(10:46):
popping to mind right now.
But uh to see disrupt HR come tocities that I actually have to
look up on the map, you know,geography, world geography may
not be my strong suit in theanyways, but when I'm like,
okay, I've heard of that countrybefore, but where is this city?
Um, that excites me.
And and to have more aninternational locations where
(11:07):
the videos are not in English.
Um, and also to see, you know,many of our organizers in some
of our international cities havetold me that, you know, it's an
honor and a challenge.
I mean, honor might be the wrongword, for people to give a talk
in English.
So they actually want to give adisrupt HR talk so they can give
it in English.
(11:28):
And I admire that because Ican't imagine giving a disrupt
HR talk, which is already achallenge in not your native
language.
Um, so that's that again, youknow, to to see people challenge
themselves in a variety of waysto share their ideas, uh, to
fight that fear of getting up onstage and speaking, and for many
(11:51):
even seasoned speakers to fightthe fear of the 15-second, you
know, slides.
Um, it's it's uh fun to see thevideos that I do get to see or
the conversations that I do getto have.
And then in the Middle East andin some of our, you know,
Eastern European cities, itseems like they're really making
it all day events, you know,with Disrupt HR talks either
(12:14):
spread throughout the day or aportion of their event.
And when I see photos onLinkedIn or posts on LinkedIn,
people are addressed, you know,very formally in suits and they
post again about the honor of uhyou know being asked to present
at Disrupt HR.
So to see the, and that's we'vealways allowed our organizers
to, you know as long as theyhave five-minute talks with 20
(12:35):
slides in advance every 15seconds, as long as they hold at
least one live event a year, aslong as they record the talks
and nobody pitches or cells,they really can make the feel of
their events or set up theevents however they want that's
going to match with theircommunity.
And and I think that's part ofwhat makes Disrupt HR
successful.
You can go to an event inIslamabad, Pakistan, and it's an
(12:58):
all-day event on Saturday, andyou dress up in a suit and you
give your talk, you know, inEnglish, and uh you're very
honored, or you can go to, youknow, I won't pick on a city,
but a city where it's held in abar and there's 30 people there,
and uh, you know, somebody'sgrandma is doing the video and A
of V.
So, you know, that that uh Ilike that about Disrupt HR.
SPEAKER_02 (13:21):
My first experience of disrupts was with the Toronto
chapter when I was living overthere.
And uh I've always taken theirapproach to the events I'm
involved with.
Um i.e.
I'll get up on stage and I'llsay, you know, this is not like
another one of those dry HRevents.
We're pretty chill here, we'requite nice people.
Yes, we'll brush our hair, but Ialways wear jeans, you know, and
(13:43):
we try and keep it relaxed.
I I don't think you'll ever findme in a suit at a disrupt event.
Oh, there we go.
That's just that's just me.
Um okay, continuing through,let's talk a bit about your 2025
trends conversation, Jen.
You you mapped out the bigshifts at the beginning of this
year, shaping talent strategy.
Which one of those has maybeaccelerated the fastest since
(14:04):
the beginning of 2025?
And what what's your updatedplaybook look like?
SPEAKER_01 (14:09):
You know, I I I failed to look at my 25 trends
that we talked about, or 2025,but I can assure you that like
most people who do predictionsand trends every year, I was
probably wrong on a few of them.
I was probably right aroundsaying that we're going to be
dealing with you know constantchange and disruption.
I I was, if I did say that, Iwas remiss on uh the pace of
(14:30):
change and the level ofdisruption I think that uh
people around the world in thebusiness world and in life in
general have experienced.
I don't think um, you know,obviously AI is completely new.
You know, the internet was newat one time, social media was
new at one time, the industrialrevolution, the printing press
was new at one time, you know,so no one really knew what any
(14:51):
of those changes would mean.
But I think with AI, it's justit's it's disrupting, you know,
the workplace, our lives.
And I don't think any of usreally have a good idea of how
exactly we're going to beinteracting with it, using it,
how it's going to take over ourlives and become our our
(15:11):
overlords.
I don't, I don't know.
So I think anyone who's talkingabout 2026, which of course
we're getting into predictionseason, we'll start to see those
posts show up on LinkedIn maybein November.
Um, and I'm sure I'll write onetoo.
But you know, we we have toconsider I keep talking about
(15:31):
and I'm trying to focus leaderson, making sure that we are
looking at AI as a way toempower our employees, um, a way
for them to enhance their workthat they do, to focus on more
strategic activities.
And when you say that, I meansomebody who's doing data entry
is not going to focus on more,you know, but they should be
(15:53):
looking at how they're going toupscale themselves so that, you
know, new jobs will be createdthat are coming from this.
And that is where, particularly,I think, HR people leaders, L
and D, recruiting, we're in thatspace of, okay, yeah, AI is
disrupting the world and theworkplace and changing the way
we do things and making some youknow activities and jobs no
(16:16):
longer necessary.
But we have to be in that spaceand that mindset of thinking
about, you know, before AIreally became a thing two or
three years ago, uh, we were allpredicting a talent shortage.
And we've been predicting that,you know, for 20 plus years.
McKinse predicted it back, youknow, for 2020, back in 19 or in
(16:37):
2000.
Uh, so we've been saying there'snot going to be enough bodies to
perform the work.
The demographics are in ourfavor in the UK and in the US
and in more of the developedcountries in some of the you
know uh lesser developedcountries, the population may be
exploding, but that's not wherethe jobs and the work are today.
So we've had that challenge thatwe were kind of thinking about,
(16:58):
well, if there's not gonna beenough people, how do we get the
work done?
Um now we're gonna maybe havestill not enough people, but
we're gonna have an excess ofpeople who don't have the skills
that we need to do the jobs thatwe will have today and in the
future.
So if you're not thinking aboutas a leader in general, as a
C-suite leader, uh, as abusiness owner, as a people
(17:20):
leader who works in one of thoseHR-related um, you know,
functions, if you're notthinking about how we're going
to give people, get people theskills and allow them to upskill
and reskill and focus oncontinuous learning, you are
already behind the eight-balland you're just going to get
left in the dust, I think, youknow, over the next few months,
because that's gonna be the coreissue is we don't have the
(17:43):
people who have the skills to dothe jobs.
And even then, with the peoplethat are available, there aren't
enough of them.
So, how do we get those peoplethe valuable skills that they
need to do the jobs of today andthe future when we can't even
predict what the future is gonnalook like in a couple of months?
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
I feel like you've articulated that situation
better than pretty much anyguest that held this show when
I've when I've tried to probethem.
So good work.
I feel like you've done thisbefore.
Um, yeah, you you joined the Nowof Work podcast this summer,
Jen, to talk about authenticity.
I think you like, did I?
And personal branding.
(18:20):
Um, what's your advice to HRleaders who want to build a
brand without feelingperformative?
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
For me, the core of it is that too many people look
at personal branding or youknow, taking control of how
other people view them as amarketing activity.
You know, I I don't want to be,I've heard it a thousand times.
I don't want to be like atoothpaste on the shelf.
I feel icky marketing myself.
And I'm like, you have to viewthis as a career management
tool.
(18:46):
You have to view this as a wayto get access to opportunities
that you want to be involved in,things you want to learn.
You know, the reality is forsince the beginning of time, you
know, people have gottenopportunities because they're
either asking for them or peopleknow that they're interested in
them.
Other people in the workplacelook at that and they go, Oh,
(19:06):
that's favoritism.
You just promoted your favorite.
And I don't think that's thecase.
There was a Disruptive DartToronto talk way early in the
beginning, one of their firstevents that I've always said is
one of my favorites, where thetitle of the talk, which is what
drew me in to watch the video,was why you should play
favorites in leadership.
Um, and and to me, that's thewhole point of disruptive.
(19:27):
Take a common concept, flip it,flip it, and you know, make your
case for why you should do that.
So it was a great talk, and andwhat she talked about is what
I'm talking about now.
These people that are your quotefavorites are the ones who are
actually doing the work, who aremaking it known what they're
doing, who are sharing wherethey want to go and what they
do.
You know, the people that youactually have to probe and dig
(19:48):
and go ask them what they'd liketo do in their career.
Uh, you know, sure, as a leader,I should be having those
conversations with my people.
But when opportunities come,who's the first person that
comes to mind?
It's the person who's beenmaking it known that they're
either doing that already orthey want to do that.
So that's how we should be, youknow, and HR people, uh, people
(20:11):
leaders again often are of themindset, well, I kind of want to
be in the background, I'msupporting other people.
I'm like, that is great.
And it's part of the role.
However, if you want to do moreof something, if you want to
grow your career, if you want tobe known as a person who's an
expert in this, you have to tellpeople what you know.
So you're not marketing yourselfas a tube-to-toothpaste, you're
(20:32):
simply sharing what you do.
If we just basic content, justshare what you know.
I mean, LinkedIn is full ofposts every day.
Uh, many of them are justcontent for content's sake for
people who are just, you know,going to ChatGPT and say, write
a LinkedIn post for me.
And it sounds like it waswritten by Chat GPT.
But if you just say, hey, likewe were talking before we
started recording, you went tothe HR Tech conference.
(20:54):
After the HR Tech conference,when you went, write a post on
LinkedIn, or if you do have ablog or a website, or even to
share on your company internet.
I attended HR Tech last week.
Here's what I learned.
Here's what I saw is happeningin the industry.
Here are some trends that Ithink we should be paying
attention to either in ourprofession or in our industry or
our company.
Share what you're talking about,what you're learning, what
(21:16):
you're curious about, what yourquestions are.
I mean, I try to share when Isubscribe to a lot of research,
you know, reports.
I get emails from McKinsey, fromGallup, you know, those those
organizations that are doingstudies, et cetera.
When I get an interesting study,I try to share that on LinkedIn.
I read this post from the Guildgroup who did a meeting of Minds
of 12 CHROs, and here's whattheir predictions were of where
(21:40):
HR is headed in the future.
Here's what I think about that.
What do you think about that?
That that is what thoughtleadership is.
You don't have to have theanswers, but thought leadership
is both curating what's going onaround you, having an opinion
about it, sharing it, beingwilling and open to uh create
conversation around that so thatyou can learn from other
(22:01):
people's thoughts and ideas.
So the basic concept of uhreally tending to your personal
brand, just share what you know.
People often ask me, you know,they'll reach out and say, hey,
I'd like to be a professionalspeaker like you, Jennifer.
Can we get on a 60-minute Zoomcall, which we can't just have
old school phone calls anymore.
I don't know why.
We can't just talk on the phone.
(22:22):
Uh, let's get on a Zoom call.
And I'd love to get your, youknow, pick your brain uh on how
to become a professionalspeaker.
And I'm like, teach what youknow.
I started teaching people how touse LinkedIn back when LinkedIn
was relatively new.
That turned into people invitingme into their organizations to
teach their leaders how to useLinkedIn, how to use their HR,
you know, how their HRrecruiting team could use
LinkedIn.
(22:42):
And then I realized I reallylike this speaking thing.
What other things do I know thatI can teach people?
Uh and now I teach people how tobe, you know, leaders and thrive
in the future of work becausethat's where I'm interested,
what I'm interested in, and whatI'm constantly learning and what
I want to share with people.
So that's an impassioned longanswer to your question of what
is personal branding and why isit important and what should we
(23:04):
be doing?
Just teach what you know.
SPEAKER_02 (23:07):
Love it.
Thank you.
Um, yeah, I miss the audiocalls, by the way.
But when I started doing thispodcast in 2016, nobody asked
you to put the video on.
You didn't have to have thecamera on.
But you know, these days it'sit's a complete social paper.
SPEAKER_01 (23:22):
Well, and now when you do a podcast interview, you
need to ask the question like,is this also gonna be a video?
Because I have too many videosout there on the internet of me
uh not looking camera readybecause I didn't know we were
doing a video podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
Uh I I did what you just mentioned there, actually,
uh, on the back of um HR Tech,uh two days later, I had a
disrupt in Manchester and um I Ishared my my findings with the
audience there, but they glazedover a little bit.
So I did a truncated I did atruncated version at Disrupt
Noric the following week, andthey seemed to like that a bit
more.
So I think it was perhaps to dowith my delivery.
(24:00):
Um just a couple more questionsfor you for today, Jen.
Your SHERM executive networkpiece focused on leadership
development.
If you had to redesign managertraining for 2026, what would
you cut, keep, and create?
SPEAKER_01 (24:14):
Well, that Sherm article was uh someone from
SHERM actually came to my mysession at the SHERM annual
conference where I'm talkingabout HR being the chief
disruption officer and leadingtransformation in the future.
Um but you know, how should theyredesign training or think about
it in the future again?
I think we need to we need tohave a different mindset when it
comes to to learning anddevelopment rather than just
(24:36):
creating courses or contentaround a popular topic and um or
something that we know leadersneed.
I mean, I always joke about howmany of us have been sent to you
know dealing with difficultpeople or how to how to read
financial statements as an HRperson.
You know, there's there's youknow, skills again that we need
to develop, but we have to againtake the mindset of this is
(24:58):
about creating a learningenvironment.
And we also need to make surethat the training and learning
and development that we areoffering to our employees is not
just measured by attendance.
Okay, we had this trainingcourse, 60 people attended, you
know, or 60 people were invitedand 55 of them showed up.
So 97% success rate, whateverthat math is.
(25:18):
Um, and that's how we've oftenmeasured, quote, success in
learning and development in thepast was who showed up, who
attended, who got thecertificate.
What we need to do is when we'redesigning training and
development for organizations,is say what are the outcomes
that will come as a result ofpeople attending this training?
What will they be able to domore of?
What impact will they have onone of our business goals and
(25:39):
objectives?
What was the number for the, youknow, rev top line revenue
before we sent all of oursalespeople to this training?
And then six months later, didthat go up as a result of what
they learned in that training?
And can we pinpoint what theydid differently as a result of
that training?
So it's really much more, Ithink, about focusing on before
(25:59):
we even start the training, whatare the outcomes that we're
trying to generate?
How are we going to measuresuccess of those outcomes?
Again, what what is it today?
How are we going to measure thatit actually, you know, was
impacted positively after thetraining?
And that's where we have tofocus.
Because we, especially in apost-pandemic world when you
know more people have figuredout how to do training even on
(26:21):
their own time, you know, fortheir own enjoyment.
They watch LinkedIn learningcourses or YouTube videos, or
they learning opportunity is allaround us.
So the challenge now, again,when you have uh a plethora of
options, is to say what isreally important?
What is it that I need todevelop uh, you know, or work on
or learn in order to do my jobwith the way my job is changing
(26:44):
and the skills that are neededto do my job are changing.
And then how can I both umtarget that training, get the
training that I need, but thenalso measure how it well, how
effective it was for me afterI've done it?
You know, the fact that Iwatched a LinkedIn training
course on, you know,implementing AI and HR in 2025.
(27:06):
I'm sure there is one out thereon that.
You know, what's five things youcan do with AI and HR?
Okay, I watched that.
Great.
Did I do any of those?
Did I try one?
You know, the goal before Istart the training should be I'm
going to pick at least one thingthat I learned from this
training and I'm going toactually do it.
Um, you know, just watching thetraining is not enough.
And I think that's the mindsetshift, both for the trainees and
(27:29):
the people who are developingthe training that needs to
happen.
SPEAKER_02 (27:32):
Loving all of these answers.
Uh, just finally for today, howcan our listeners connect with
you?
And as part of your answer, asHR royalty, Jen, um what's
what's the right way of goingabout, you know, if if if some
bozo like me wants to reach outto a big old celeb in the
industry um and and start aconversation with them for the
first time, what what's theright way of doing that?
(27:52):
What what what's the rightapproach?
What works for you as opposed tomessages that perhaps just turn
you off and you don't want toget back to them?
SPEAKER_01 (27:58):
Oh, the messages that turn me off are the ones
that uh that lists, you know,write some uh message on
LinkedIn or send me an email andsay, you know, I've been
following your work for years.
I'd love to schedule a call andtalk about how we can partner.
Because partner often means youwant in on some some of my
business when we don't know eachother, you know.
(28:18):
So uh you're reaching out to meout of the blue, out of you
know, nowhere, wanting topartner means that you're you're
trying to build your business,not mine, more than likely.
And maybe I'm wrong in some ofthose cases, but most often not.
What I tell people, if you wantto connect with uh, you know,
more than just follow someone,uh do follow their work, but
(28:41):
also engage with them on theirwork.
You know, sign up for mynewsletter, reply.
I ask every week or every twoweeks when I send my news.
I'd love for you to reply andtell me what you know you
thought about this or whatever,because that's a I'm trying to
generate a conversation.
I'm trying to get to know youback to what I said earlier.
I'm sharing what I know, but I'dlike to know what you think
about what I said.
You know, what are your ideasdifferent?
(29:01):
So when you truly want to engagewith someone that you haven't
met or you don't know, uh followtheir work, engage with it.
Often people will see me at aconference or event and they're
go, I love what you post onLinkedIn.
I'm like, uh, I I don'trecognize your name.
I've never seen you like a postor comment on it.
And you might think that'svanity, but again, I'd love to
(29:22):
know that something I saidresonated with you or that you
disagree with it, or you have adifferent take, as you know,
let's all be respectful, andmost people are.
Um, that's how we can't thereare numerous people that are in
my network today.
I I always share the example ofBruce Waller, a gentleman here
in the US who's a a VP at arelocation company, you know, so
(29:44):
people that relocate when youget a new job and you have to
relocate across the country, uh,Bruce will help you.
So, you know, if you see someonelike Bruce reaching out to you
on LinkedIn who says they wantto, you know, have a Zoom call
and figure out how we canpartner, I'm immediately
thinking Bruce wants to sell meon something because I don't do
relocation.
Uh, he's obviously his targetcustomers are probably in the HR
(30:05):
industry.
But very early on when I startedmy podcast back in 2018, uh, I
had seen Bruce's name.
Again, he'd interacted with mycontent that I posted on
LinkedIn and stuff.
But he would listen to mypodcast every week.
And then he would, in his notesapp on his phone, take notes
about some of the things heliked or that he learned or that
you know he really resonatedwith him in the podcast.
(30:26):
And then he would share that onsocial media, on LinkedIn or to
his Instagram profile.
You know, love listening to theImpact Makers podcast this week.
Here's five things I learned.
Again, sharing what he learned,but that also caused me to say,
wow, Bruce is somebody whoreally does, you know, does it
right, who is a connector, who'sa relationship builder.
(30:48):
He's not just telling me, youknow, he wants to reach out to
me and he never has because hewants to partner.
But, you know, I invited Bruceto connect on LinkedIn because I
see him sharing my content.
I want to, you know, beconnected to this person who's
doing it right and buildingrelationships.
And, you know, since then I'vebeen a guest on Bruce's podcast,
and he's written a couple ofbooks, and I have them, and I
(31:09):
see him now speaking atconferences and events.
That's someone that I can saythe relationship developed
because this person wasvalidating my ideas or you know,
sharing their own perspective onit, sharing it, you know, adding
value to their network byhelping to spread my message.
And that's somebody I do want toread, you know, have
(31:29):
conversations with and beconnected with.
So the easiest way to get athought leader, or you know, if
you you want to thank someone'sroyalty's attention is engage
with their content, you know,read, sign up for the
newsletter, reply to theirnewsletter, tell them you like
it.
Because I spent three hours onmy email newsletter that I sent
out this week, and it's lessthan 750 words, but I
(31:50):
thoughtfully try to curatesomething that people will get
value from.
So when Claire Strowe in the US,who's someone that again I've
connected with similarly, who'salways engaged with my work, and
now I recommend her to speak atevents because I've seen her
speak a couple of times.
So when I send my newsletter at7:35 a.m.
and at nine o'clock, Clairereplies to my newsletter and
(32:13):
says, Love this newsletter.
I'm adding the podcast yourecommended to my queue to
listen to.
I love Claire for that, and Iwill continue to recommend her
for speaking engagements andopportunities and find ways to
help her grow her career and herbrand because I'm invested in
her now as well because of therelationship we've developed
over the years.
(32:33):
But she continues to stayengaged with me by making sure
that I know she's out therepaying attention.
SPEAKER_02 (32:39):
Bruce, Claire, if you're listening, we love you.
Uh, I just want to add a thirdperson there who's always
fantastic at uh commenting onposts and interacting and
sharing and all the rest of it,is a mutual friend of ours, uh
Steve Brown.
So, Steve, if you're listening,uh you you do it right, sir.
You are a rock star.
Jen McConnell.
SPEAKER_01 (32:59):
A comment from Steve Brown or Lori Rudeman on your
LinkedIn post is go goal becausenow if you look, LinkedIn shows
impress or impressions oncomments or um, and if Steve or
Lori comment on your post, theydrive hundreds of impressions to
your post.
So that's another way, again,you can give as someone who
maybe has a large network.
When you comment and engage andinteract with other people's
content, you bring your networkwith you to their content.
SPEAKER_02 (33:22):
Very good.
Very good.
Uh that just leads me to say fortoday, Jen McClure.
Thank you very much for ourregular catch-up here today.
Uh I'll I'll be hounding youagain in the last six months for
another one of these.
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
Would love it.
SPEAKER_02 (33:35):
Uh listeners, as always, until next time, happy
working.
SPEAKER_03 (33:42):
Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show.
If you enjoyed this episode, whynot subscribe and listen to some
of the hundreds of episodespublished by HR Gazette?
And remember, for what's new inthe world of work, subscribe to
the show, follow us on socialmedia, and visit hrgazette.com.
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