December 11, 2025 • 15 mins
Forget the headlines predicting a “workerless workforce.” In this episode, host Bill Banham sits down with longtime cloud and SaaS analyst Phil Wainwright to cut through the hype and examine what AI agents really mean for HR, business leaders, and the people doing the work.
Phil argues that automation can be transformative—but calling software a “workforce” conceals the real challenges organisations face: governance, transparency, accountability, and change management. Together, we explore where AI agents will take hold first—help desks, admin-heavy workflows, repetitive processes—and why this shift places HR in a more strategic, cross-functional role.
Listeners will get practical guidance on:
- How to encode policy, ethics, and organisational values into systems so AI operates safely
- Specific risks in AI-driven recruiting and performance processes, from hidden bias to opaque decision paths
- The documentation, access rules, and audit trails needed to build trust
- How skills-based talent frameworks are reshaping hiring, development, and mobility
- Why adaptability, empathy, creativity, and problem solving are emerging as the defining skills of modern work
We also dig into early-career disruption, the evolution of knowledge work, and the rise of modular teams blending AI, contractors, and full-time staff—without dumping everyone into the gig economy.
If you’re leading HR or building teams, this episode offers a grounded roadmap for responsible AI adoption and resilient workforce design.
Feature Your Brand on the HRchat Podcast
The HRchat show has had 100,000s of downloads and is frequently listed as one of the most popular global podcasts for HR pros, Talent execs and leaders. It is ranked in the top ten in the world based on traffic, social media followers, domain authority & freshness. The podcast is also ranked as the Best Canadian HR Podcast by FeedSpot and one of the top 10% most popular shows by Listen Score.
Want to share the story of how your business is helping to shape the world of work? We offer sponsored episodes, audio adverts, email campaigns, and a host of other options. Check out packages here.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's
most downloaded and sharedpodcasts designed for HR pros,
talent execs, tech enthusiasts,and business leaders.
For hundreds more episodes andwhat's new in the world of work,
subscribe to the show, follow uson social media, and visit
hrgazette.com.
SPEAKER_02 (00:26):
Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show.
Hello, listeners.
This is your host today, BillBannham.
And joining me back on the showafter we were just looking at
this nearly five years is theawesome, wonderful, fabulous,
fantastic Phil Wainwright.
Phil has charted the rise ofcloud computing and its impact
(00:46):
on business for more than aquarter of a century.
He's an entrepreneur, he's awriter, and a noted industry
analyst.
He launched his online ventureto chronicle the early years of
the SaaS industry back in thelate 1990s.
And in 2013, he co-founded thetech media website Digonomica to
cover the evolution of digitaltechnology and how it's changing
(01:10):
the enterprise fill after way,way, way too long.
Welcome back to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
Well, thanks very much for having me, Bill.
It's great to be back.
And it has been a hell of a longtime, hasn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (01:21):
It certainly has, but you don't look a day older,
sir, I've got to say.
Thanks, Bill.
You're such a flatterer.
Well, absolutely, it's 100%true.
Um, as we always do on thisshow, Phil, uh, why don't you
start by just taking a minute ortwo and reintroducing yourself
to our audience?
SPEAKER_01 (01:41):
My big focus is how technology is changing the way
that businesses operate.
Um, and therefore I spend a lotof time talking to uh people,
CIOs, uh CHROs, other peopleleading businesses about how
they're making use of thetechnology to make a big impact.
Um, and um and I spend a lot oftime obviously talking to
(02:02):
vendors as well, who always seemto be talking about AI these
days, um which we might come onto in a moment.
But uh that uh uh that focus issomething that I've had for, as
you mentioned, you know, a verylong time, right from the birth
of SaaS up to where we are nowwith the industry.
SPEAKER_02 (02:20):
You criticized vendors for talking about AI
agents as a new form of digitallabour and a digital workforce.
Why is that?
Give us the historical context.
SPEAKER_01 (02:31):
What has been happening, we've been hearing
from vendors like I mean,Salesforce and Workday, for
example, have been coming outand saying, you know, with these
new AI agents, uh you've got adigital workforce and you need
to start planning for managingthat.
And I I I I really hate the theway that they're using that
language for two reasons.
I think, first of all, um it'sit it encourages lazy thinking.
(02:56):
You know, we never talked aboutwhen ATMs came came out or
self-service checkouts, wedidn't talk about that them as
part of the workforce, and weshouldn't do the same for AI
agents.
I mean, it's it's not um it isautomation, it's a new kind of
automation, it's going to bevery powerful.
But but at the end of the day,people and corporations are
(03:17):
still responsible for it, andthe people will have to manage
these uh the these these thesemachines.
And the second reason is thatthere's a bit of a sinister
subtext here.
You know, it's a bit of the, Ijokingly call it the workerless
workforce.
You know, they're basicallysaying have our software and you
won't have to spend so much onyour wage bill.
Uh, and you know, I I I don'tthink that's a very healthy way
(03:40):
of looking at this either.
SPEAKER_02 (03:42):
So as enterprises continue to deploy AI agents,
Phil, how do you think that'llchange the way that HR teams
manage the workforce?
SPEAKER_01 (03:51):
Big change is coming, obviously.
This this this is a huge changein terms of what the technology
can do.
Um, I think we are gonna see themore routine work like help desk
or all the admin stuff becomingmuch more automated than it has
been in the past.
Uh, and that means that uh HRpeople are going to hopefully
(04:12):
become more strategic.
Um, they're gonna have to domore liaison with other
functions in the business.
I think that trend's alreadybeen happening, it's going to
intensify.
Uh and of course, they're alsogoing to have to be monitoring
what's going on with theseautomations and making sure that
you know, if you're automatingtalent acquisition, for example,
you you've not got hidden biasbuilt into how the agents are
(04:34):
operating.
I do think some roles willchange as well.
Um, the HR is going to beworking much more closely, even
more closely, in fact, with withIT in setting the guardrails
around these agents.
Uh, you know, in the past, HRpeople have have set the
guardrails for commission forpermissions, for example.
(04:55):
You know, people's roles are inthe HR system that gets imported
into the identity managementsystem.
Um, but I think things likepolicy and ethics and values are
also going to have to be definedso that the machines can take
that on board.
Um, but the main role is stillgoing to be managing the human
workforce, and there's going tobe a huge amount of work there
(05:16):
helping those people adapt toall of the change that they're
facing in their roles.
SPEAKER_02 (05:21):
So, what what are we looking at in terms of a change
in the labour force?
So I've read, for example, uh by2030, 330% of jobs that exist
today will be entirelyautomated, they'll be entirely
replaced by um by AI and largelanguage models.
What does that mean in terms ofuh uh the opportunity to to get
(05:43):
jobs, the opportunities to growwith it within a career within a
company?
But what what are your what areyour thoughts?
SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
Um yeah, I mean I think it's very difficult.
I was talking to someone theother day who who's talking to
his kids as they're coming intothe workforce and they're
thinking, well, if I start acareer now, would it still exist
in 10 or 15 years' time?
And I and I think that that kindof gets to the nub of the issue
here is that one of the thingsin the future is that people
will have to be very much moreadaptable because their jobs
(06:12):
will change.
But I don't think that's a newthing that's just happened
because of AI agents in the pastcouple of years.
I mean, people were talking likefive, 10 years ago, about how um
you needed to be able to adaptthroughout your working life.
That going to a university andgetting a degree and then a
professional qualification andyou were set for life, that
(06:32):
doesn't happen anymore.
And I don't think it's it's beentrue this century.
Um so uh so so really what theAI wave is doing is just
intensifying this process thatwas already going on.
And I think one of the bigthings is that this whole field
that we know as as knowledgework is really the area that's
(06:54):
going to change dramatically.
Um and and again, this issomething I've I've written
about in the past.
I think there's going to be muchmore emphasis on uh people who
are good at what I would callreal-time skills.
So this this the um this abilityto use empathy, this ability to
be adaptable, this ability toinnovate uh and be creative.
(07:18):
I think those are the skillsthat will be emphasized.
And and a lot of knowledge workwill still exist, but it'll be
people who are able to deal withknowledge as it changes rather
than people who've come into theworkforce knowing something, and
that's what creates their careerfor their lifetime.
SPEAKER_02 (07:34):
Phil, how can HR leaders evaluate the ethical
implications of deploying AIagents in ways that maintain
trust and show transparency toemployees?
SPEAKER_01 (07:47):
Yeah, I I mean I think that's a big challenge at
the moment because the space isstill evolving.
I mean, every vendor that youyou meet is going to talk about
a trust layer that their AIsystems have built in.
It's gonna talk about ethicalAI.
Um I I think everyone knows thatthey need to uh they need to
(08:09):
cater to this.
Um, but I think the mechanismsfor doing that are still um are
still being evolved.
And I think one of the one ofthe key things here is that with
AI, it it only knows what itwhat it knows.
Uh so you know with a human,they come into the workforce and
they know they they alreadyknow, you know, this is an
(08:32):
extreme example, but they knownot to kill people.
You know, whereas whereas an AIagent does not know that until
unless it's actually beenbriefed in its values.
Um, and and so it means thatyou've got to be much more
careful if you're actually usingpolicy to um that the AI agents
are ingesting to decide whatactions are acceptable and what
(08:55):
actions are not.
You've got to make sure thatthat policy is is really well
written down, and in a lot oforganizations it hasn't been
because the people have filledin the gaps in the past, and so
I think that's one of the bigrisks for organizations going
forward is that they're actuallygoing to have to document their
policies and values and theirethics much more carefully.
SPEAKER_02 (09:16):
But fortunately, there are plenty of GPTs that
can help you with that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:21):
Yeah, yeah, don't get me started.
SPEAKER_02 (09:26):
Um with automation for removing many friction
points.
How should HR rethink skillsdevelopment and workforce
planning then to stay ahead ofuh of shifting business needs?
What what what are the thingsthey should be doing right now
to strategize as we see thatpercentage of folks being
getting higher in terms of beingreplaced by AI?
(09:46):
Um, how the the the ratio of uhhuman work to uh augmented work
is is shifting as well.
What's the role of the HR leaderthere to make sure that the
organization is, I guess,future-proofed?
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
Yeah, I think one of the most important things, and a
lot of organizations, again, arealready doing this, is moving to
a skills-based talent managementframework so that you're not
just doing it on what people arequalified to do, but you're
doing it on their actual provenskills.
And a lot of those skills aregoing to be soft skills that are
going to be important.
And so having the taxonomy andthe systems for capturing that
(10:24):
is really important.
I think also you've got to givepeople much more agency,
employees, much more agency inforging their own careers.
You know, if you expect them tobe constantly adapting uh what
they know, constantly adaptingto new skills, you've you've got
to put them in charge of that.
You you can't kind of directthem everywhere, you've you've
(10:46):
got to allow them to do that.
So I think uh so I think thoseare two very, very important
steps that organizations need totake.
Um, and I I think the other partof this is that this is all
about moving away fromhistorically paper-based systems
to much more digitally connectedsystems, and so you're able to
do much more in real time.
(11:07):
So things like talentdevelopment, things like um uh
uh recognizing employees issomething that you don't do once
or twice a year, you you'redoing continuously all the time.
SPEAKER_02 (11:21):
So there is a concern with um more junior
folks, new folks coming into thelabor market, but um, the roles
that they would have moved intojust a few years ago aren't
going to be there becausethey've been replaced.
You mentioned uh uh were youfocusing on on knowledge
workers?
So, for example, um legalprofessionals, junior legal
professionals.
It looks like their jobs arepretty much replaced, but yeah,
(11:42):
the senior guys have still got ajob at the moment.
So these folks have got to findnew ways to make money.
Um, and it seems like there's uhuh a big opportunity here with
all the new wonderfultechnologies at our disposal,
and we don't even need coding uhknowledge anymore to create
businesses.
What opportunities, Phil, uh,does AI open up to the gig
(12:05):
economy, to gig workers?
SPEAKER_01 (12:07):
I think you've asked me two questions there, really,
because you've you've asked meabout kind of people coming into
the workforce, but you alsoasked me about gig workers.
I I think um I think there'sgonna be a lot of opportunity
for gig workers um because Ithink organizations are gonna uh
look for skills in a much moreum kind of componentized way,
(12:29):
because it's gonna be possibleto like get things done by
assembling different bits ofinput, um whether it's machines
or whether it's um uh gig workor or or permanent employees.
Um so so there's that element.
Um but but I I I think that um Idon't think everyone's gonna end
up in the future just doing gigwork.
(12:50):
I think people are still gonnabe able to forge careers, and I
think that still involvesdeveloping a specialism.
Um uh that it's just that thatspecialism is going to be based
on experience and and getting toknow how uh a particular sector
works rather than uh uh ratherthan specific knowledge.
Um and I and I think that uhthat a lot of this is very
(13:17):
difficult because it's stillworking itself out.
Uh it's one of the areas whereyou know legal profession,
business consulting, you know,that they've the practices there
have depended on people comingin working long hours on low
salaries in order to get to apoint where they can become
partners.
Um, and and that whole channelnow starts to disappear because
(13:38):
of the the way that knowledgework is changing.
So I don't know how thoseorganizations can adapt to that
yet.
So there is a lot of change inthe air.
SPEAKER_02 (13:48):
So I'm taking from that, I'm not sure, Bill, which
is what I hear quite a lot.
Everybody's still trying tofigure this out.
SPEAKER_01 (13:55):
Well, you know, I think that some of these things
um no one knows.
If someone tells you that theyknow, it's then um then they're
making it up.
Uh and and uh and I think thatmakes it very difficult, but
humans are very good at adaptingto change.
And in fact, it's one of thethings that distinguishes us
from AI, which can only workwith stuff that it's being fed.
(14:18):
Um, so so you know, people dealreally well with with um uh with
with with with black sheep, uhblack swan moments, um, and um
as well as black sheep moments.
Uh and I think that uh uh thatthat constant um uh ability to
reinvent ourselves is gonnastand us in good stage, uh good
(14:40):
stead in the AI age.
SPEAKER_02 (14:41):
I think that's a lovely place to wrap up this
interview.
That just leaves me to say fortoday for Wayne Wright.
Thank you very much forreturning to the HR Chat Show.
Thank you very much, Bill.
I've really enjoyed it.
Thank you.
And listeners, as always, untilnext time, happy working.
SPEAKER_00 (14:59):
Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show.
If you enjoyed this episode, whynot subscribe and listen to some
of the hundreds of episodespublished by HR Gazette?
And remember, for what's new inthe world of work, subscribe to
the show, follow us on socialmedia, and visit hrgazette.com.
Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's
most downloaded and sharedpodcasts designed for HR pros,
talent execs, tech enthusiasts,and business leaders.
For hundreds more episodes andwhat's new in the world of work,
subscribe to the show, follow uson social media, and visit
hrgazette.com.
SPEAKER_02 (00:26):
Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show.
Hello, listeners.
This is your host today, BillBannham.
And joining me back on the showafter we were just looking at
this nearly five years is theawesome, wonderful, fabulous,
fantastic Phil Wainwright.
Phil has charted the rise ofcloud computing and its impact
(00:46):
on business for more than aquarter of a century.
He's an entrepreneur, he's awriter, and a noted industry
analyst.
He launched his online ventureto chronicle the early years of
the SaaS industry back in thelate 1990s.
And in 2013, he co-founded thetech media website Digonomica to
cover the evolution of digitaltechnology and how it's changing
(01:10):
the enterprise fill after way,way, way too long.
Welcome back to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
Well, thanks very much for having me, Bill.
It's great to be back.
And it has been a hell of a longtime, hasn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (01:21):
It certainly has, but you don't look a day older,
sir, I've got to say.
Thanks, Bill.
You're such a flatterer.
Well, absolutely, it's 100%true.
Um, as we always do on thisshow, Phil, uh, why don't you
start by just taking a minute ortwo and reintroducing yourself
to our audience?
SPEAKER_01 (01:41):
My big focus is how technology is changing the way
that businesses operate.
Um, and therefore I spend a lotof time talking to uh people,
CIOs, uh CHROs, other peopleleading businesses about how
they're making use of thetechnology to make a big impact.
Um, and um and I spend a lot oftime obviously talking to
(02:02):
vendors as well, who always seemto be talking about AI these
days, um which we might come onto in a moment.
But uh that uh uh that focus issomething that I've had for, as
you mentioned, you know, a verylong time, right from the birth
of SaaS up to where we are nowwith the industry.
SPEAKER_02 (02:20):
You criticized vendors for talking about AI
agents as a new form of digitallabour and a digital workforce.
Why is that?
Give us the historical context.
SPEAKER_01 (02:31):
What has been happening, we've been hearing
from vendors like I mean,Salesforce and Workday, for
example, have been coming outand saying, you know, with these
new AI agents, uh you've got adigital workforce and you need
to start planning for managingthat.
And I I I I really hate the theway that they're using that
language for two reasons.
I think, first of all, um it'sit it encourages lazy thinking.
(02:56):
You know, we never talked aboutwhen ATMs came came out or
self-service checkouts, wedidn't talk about that them as
part of the workforce, and weshouldn't do the same for AI
agents.
I mean, it's it's not um it isautomation, it's a new kind of
automation, it's going to bevery powerful.
But but at the end of the day,people and corporations are
(03:17):
still responsible for it, andthe people will have to manage
these uh the these these thesemachines.
And the second reason is thatthere's a bit of a sinister
subtext here.
You know, it's a bit of the, Ijokingly call it the workerless
workforce.
You know, they're basicallysaying have our software and you
won't have to spend so much onyour wage bill.
Uh, and you know, I I I don'tthink that's a very healthy way
(03:40):
of looking at this either.
SPEAKER_02 (03:42):
So as enterprises continue to deploy AI agents,
Phil, how do you think that'llchange the way that HR teams
manage the workforce?
SPEAKER_01 (03:51):
Big change is coming, obviously.
This this this is a huge changein terms of what the technology
can do.
Um, I think we are gonna see themore routine work like help desk
or all the admin stuff becomingmuch more automated than it has
been in the past.
Uh, and that means that uh HRpeople are going to hopefully
(04:12):
become more strategic.
Um, they're gonna have to domore liaison with other
functions in the business.
I think that trend's alreadybeen happening, it's going to
intensify.
Uh and of course, they're alsogoing to have to be monitoring
what's going on with theseautomations and making sure that
you know, if you're automatingtalent acquisition, for example,
you you've not got hidden biasbuilt into how the agents are
(04:34):
operating.
I do think some roles willchange as well.
Um, the HR is going to beworking much more closely, even
more closely, in fact, with withIT in setting the guardrails
around these agents.
Uh, you know, in the past, HRpeople have have set the
guardrails for commission forpermissions, for example.
(04:55):
You know, people's roles are inthe HR system that gets imported
into the identity managementsystem.
Um, but I think things likepolicy and ethics and values are
also going to have to be definedso that the machines can take
that on board.
Um, but the main role is stillgoing to be managing the human
workforce, and there's going tobe a huge amount of work there
(05:16):
helping those people adapt toall of the change that they're
facing in their roles.
SPEAKER_02 (05:21):
So, what what are we looking at in terms of a change
in the labour force?
So I've read, for example, uh by2030, 330% of jobs that exist
today will be entirelyautomated, they'll be entirely
replaced by um by AI and largelanguage models.
What does that mean in terms ofuh uh the opportunity to to get
(05:43):
jobs, the opportunities to growwith it within a career within a
company?
But what what are your what areyour thoughts?
SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
Um yeah, I mean I think it's very difficult.
I was talking to someone theother day who who's talking to
his kids as they're coming intothe workforce and they're
thinking, well, if I start acareer now, would it still exist
in 10 or 15 years' time?
And I and I think that that kindof gets to the nub of the issue
here is that one of the thingsin the future is that people
will have to be very much moreadaptable because their jobs
(06:12):
will change.
But I don't think that's a newthing that's just happened
because of AI agents in the pastcouple of years.
I mean, people were talking likefive, 10 years ago, about how um
you needed to be able to adaptthroughout your working life.
That going to a university andgetting a degree and then a
professional qualification andyou were set for life, that
(06:32):
doesn't happen anymore.
And I don't think it's it's beentrue this century.
Um so uh so so really what theAI wave is doing is just
intensifying this process thatwas already going on.
And I think one of the bigthings is that this whole field
that we know as as knowledgework is really the area that's
(06:54):
going to change dramatically.
Um and and again, this issomething I've I've written
about in the past.
I think there's going to be muchmore emphasis on uh people who
are good at what I would callreal-time skills.
So this this the um this abilityto use empathy, this ability to
be adaptable, this ability toinnovate uh and be creative.
(07:18):
I think those are the skillsthat will be emphasized.
And and a lot of knowledge workwill still exist, but it'll be
people who are able to deal withknowledge as it changes rather
than people who've come into theworkforce knowing something, and
that's what creates their careerfor their lifetime.
SPEAKER_02 (07:34):
Phil, how can HR leaders evaluate the ethical
implications of deploying AIagents in ways that maintain
trust and show transparency toemployees?
SPEAKER_01 (07:47):
Yeah, I I mean I think that's a big challenge at
the moment because the space isstill evolving.
I mean, every vendor that youyou meet is going to talk about
a trust layer that their AIsystems have built in.
It's gonna talk about ethicalAI.
Um I I think everyone knows thatthey need to uh they need to
(08:09):
cater to this.
Um, but I think the mechanismsfor doing that are still um are
still being evolved.
And I think one of the one ofthe key things here is that with
AI, it it only knows what itwhat it knows.
Uh so you know with a human,they come into the workforce and
they know they they alreadyknow, you know, this is an
(08:32):
extreme example, but they knownot to kill people.
You know, whereas whereas an AIagent does not know that until
unless it's actually beenbriefed in its values.
Um, and and so it means thatyou've got to be much more
careful if you're actually usingpolicy to um that the AI agents
are ingesting to decide whatactions are acceptable and what
(08:55):
actions are not.
You've got to make sure thatthat policy is is really well
written down, and in a lot oforganizations it hasn't been
because the people have filledin the gaps in the past, and so
I think that's one of the bigrisks for organizations going
forward is that they're actuallygoing to have to document their
policies and values and theirethics much more carefully.
SPEAKER_02 (09:16):
But fortunately, there are plenty of GPTs that
can help you with that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:21):
Yeah, yeah, don't get me started.
SPEAKER_02 (09:26):
Um with automation for removing many friction
points.
How should HR rethink skillsdevelopment and workforce
planning then to stay ahead ofuh of shifting business needs?
What what what are the thingsthey should be doing right now
to strategize as we see thatpercentage of folks being
getting higher in terms of beingreplaced by AI?
(09:46):
Um, how the the the ratio of uhhuman work to uh augmented work
is is shifting as well.
What's the role of the HR leaderthere to make sure that the
organization is, I guess,future-proofed?
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
Yeah, I think one of the most important things, and a
lot of organizations, again, arealready doing this, is moving to
a skills-based talent managementframework so that you're not
just doing it on what people arequalified to do, but you're
doing it on their actual provenskills.
And a lot of those skills aregoing to be soft skills that are
going to be important.
And so having the taxonomy andthe systems for capturing that
(10:24):
is really important.
I think also you've got to givepeople much more agency,
employees, much more agency inforging their own careers.
You know, if you expect them tobe constantly adapting uh what
they know, constantly adaptingto new skills, you've you've got
to put them in charge of that.
You you can't kind of directthem everywhere, you've you've
(10:46):
got to allow them to do that.
So I think uh so I think thoseare two very, very important
steps that organizations need totake.
Um, and I I think the other partof this is that this is all
about moving away fromhistorically paper-based systems
to much more digitally connectedsystems, and so you're able to
do much more in real time.
(11:07):
So things like talentdevelopment, things like um uh
uh recognizing employees issomething that you don't do once
or twice a year, you you'redoing continuously all the time.
SPEAKER_02 (11:21):
So there is a concern with um more junior
folks, new folks coming into thelabor market, but um, the roles
that they would have moved intojust a few years ago aren't
going to be there becausethey've been replaced.
You mentioned uh uh were youfocusing on on knowledge
workers?
So, for example, um legalprofessionals, junior legal
professionals.
It looks like their jobs arepretty much replaced, but yeah,
(11:42):
the senior guys have still got ajob at the moment.
So these folks have got to findnew ways to make money.
Um, and it seems like there's uhuh a big opportunity here with
all the new wonderfultechnologies at our disposal,
and we don't even need coding uhknowledge anymore to create
businesses.
What opportunities, Phil, uh,does AI open up to the gig
(12:05):
economy, to gig workers?
SPEAKER_01 (12:07):
I think you've asked me two questions there, really,
because you've you've asked meabout kind of people coming into
the workforce, but you alsoasked me about gig workers.
I I think um I think there'sgonna be a lot of opportunity
for gig workers um because Ithink organizations are gonna uh
look for skills in a much moreum kind of componentized way,
(12:29):
because it's gonna be possibleto like get things done by
assembling different bits ofinput, um whether it's machines
or whether it's um uh gig workor or or permanent employees.
Um so so there's that element.
Um but but I I I think that um Idon't think everyone's gonna end
up in the future just doing gigwork.
(12:50):
I think people are still gonnabe able to forge careers, and I
think that still involvesdeveloping a specialism.
Um uh that it's just that thatspecialism is going to be based
on experience and and getting toknow how uh a particular sector
works rather than uh uh ratherthan specific knowledge.
Um and I and I think that uhthat a lot of this is very
(13:17):
difficult because it's stillworking itself out.
Uh it's one of the areas whereyou know legal profession,
business consulting, you know,that they've the practices there
have depended on people comingin working long hours on low
salaries in order to get to apoint where they can become
partners.
Um, and and that whole channelnow starts to disappear because
(13:38):
of the the way that knowledgework is changing.
So I don't know how thoseorganizations can adapt to that
yet.
So there is a lot of change inthe air.
SPEAKER_02 (13:48):
So I'm taking from that, I'm not sure, Bill, which
is what I hear quite a lot.
Everybody's still trying tofigure this out.
SPEAKER_01 (13:55):
Well, you know, I think that some of these things
um no one knows.
If someone tells you that theyknow, it's then um then they're
making it up.
Uh and and uh and I think thatmakes it very difficult, but
humans are very good at adaptingto change.
And in fact, it's one of thethings that distinguishes us
from AI, which can only workwith stuff that it's being fed.
(14:18):
Um, so so you know, people dealreally well with with um uh with
with with with black sheep, uhblack swan moments, um, and um
as well as black sheep moments.
Uh and I think that uh uh thatthat constant um uh ability to
reinvent ourselves is gonnastand us in good stage, uh good
(14:40):
stead in the AI age.
SPEAKER_02 (14:41):
I think that's a lovely place to wrap up this
interview.
That just leaves me to say fortoday for Wayne Wright.
Thank you very much forreturning to the HR Chat Show.
Thank you very much, Bill.
I've really enjoyed it.
Thank you.
And listeners, as always, untilnext time, happy working.
SPEAKER_00 (14:59):
Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show.
If you enjoyed this episode, whynot subscribe and listen to some
of the hundreds of episodespublished by HR Gazette?
And remember, for what's new inthe world of work, subscribe to
the show, follow us on socialmedia, and visit hrgazette.com.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!