The future of workforce efficiency is skills-based, and organizations that fail to make this pivot risk being left behind. Shrikant Pattathil, President and CTO of Harbinger Group, joins Bill Banham to unpack why skill proficiency has become a critical metric for organizational success in today's hyper-personalized, hyper-automated workplace.
Shrikant reveals that companies implementing skills-first approaches are seeing dramatic improvements, including 25% faster hiring processes. But the benefits extend far beyond recruitment, touching everything from internal mobility to workforce planning. The conversation explores the complex question of AI-driven job displacement, with Shrikant estimating that while 70-80% of employees can be upskilled for evolving roles, organizations must prepare for 20-25% of positions to undergo complete transformation.
The episode takes a deep dive into the architecture of effective skills-first platforms, outlining six essential components including AI-driven skills graphs, gap analyzers, and personalization engines. Through real-world case studies, Shrikant demonstrates how these systems have transformed recruitment processes and leadership development programs. He emphasizes that building a skills ontology isn't a one-time project but an ongoing commitment requiring continuous adaptation to organizational needs.
Shrikant Pattathil also provides practical guidance for HR leaders navigating the build-versus-partner decision when implementing skills platforms. He advocates for a strategic approach that balances custom development of core components with partnerships for standard functionalities. The conversation concludes with insights on incorporating contingent workers into skills frameworks and how centralized skills management serves as the ultimate insurance policy against future disruptions.
Ready to transform how your organization approaches talent development and workforce planning? Subscribe to the HRchat Show for more conversations with innovators reshaping the world of work, visit hrgazette.com for additional resources on skills-first transformation and learn more about the services offered by Harbinger Group.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's
most downloaded and sharedpodcasts designed for HR pros,
talent execs, tech enthusiastsand business leaders.
For hundreds more episodes andwhat's new in the world of work,
subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
hrgazettecom and visithrgazettecom.
Bill Banham (00:26):
Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show.
Hello listeners, this is yourhost today, Bill Bannam, and in
this episode we're going todiscuss why HR tech platforms
should consider pivoting toskills-first talent intelligence
.
Listen as we consider suchfactors as what are the building
blocks of a skills-first talentintelligence platform?
(00:47):
What is the greatest source ofROI when companies implement
skills-first strategies?
What role does AI play in askills-first talent intelligence
platform or learning approach?
And joining me on the showtoday is , president and CTO
over at Harbinger Group, aglobal tech company that builds
(01:10):
products and solutionstransforming the way people work
and learn.
Srikanth, welcome to the HRChat Show.
It's a pleasure to have youjoining me today.
Shrikant Pattathil (01:19):
Thanks, bill .
It's a pleasure to be heretalking to you as well, so
looking forward to theconversation.
Bill Banham (01:26):
So, beyond my intro just a moment ago, why don't
you start by telling ourlisteners a bit about yourself,
your career background, what youget up to at the company, and
also something that gets you upin the morning, something that
you're inspired by that gets youup in the morning?
Shrikant Pattathil (01:46):
why that gets you up in the morning yeah,
thanks, bill, for the for forthe introduction and, um, yeah,
just to add to that, uh, youknow my uh passion over the
years has been to work with thecompanies to turn their you know
ideas, uh, innovations, intoreal products.
And, uh, over the years, youknow, I have been excited about
all the emerging technologiesbecause that opens up a lot of
(02:08):
new options into how we buildnew solutions, how we help
customers do better and thingsmuch more efficiently,
innovatively, and so forth.
So, be it emerging tech or beit like a new go-to market or a
new feature, those are the kindsof things that really excite me
(02:30):
and bring the best out of me,and I've been fortunate over the
two decades to collaborate withtechnical leaders, product
leaders in learning and HRorganizations and even in
healthcare space as well.
So, given the focus of today'sconversations on skilling and
learning, I'm really lookingforward to, you know, sharing
(02:54):
some of my experience andinsights.
That seems like everything isunder disruption right now.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat
Podcast.
If you enjoy the audio contentwe produce, you'll love our
articles on the HR Gazette.
Learn more at hrgazettecom.
And now back to the show.
Bill Banham (03:18):
I know that one of your key interests is AI, and we
can't go an episode of the HRChat Show without talking about
how AI is disrupting things, forexample, and I'm sure we'll be
getting to that later on.
Today.
Let's talk about skills.
For the time being, though.
In your view, are skills acurrency that measures workforce
(03:40):
efficiency?
Is it the best currency to dothat?
If so, why is that?
Shrikant Pattathil (03:46):
We are positioned in the HR and
learning space, so everything weview from the lens of you know
how we can transform the waypeople work and learn, and today
we feel that we are entering anera of hyper-personalization
and hyper-automation, if youwill.
So, given that I think,irrespective of what job or role
(04:11):
you're performing in theorganization, the level of
proficiency or the precisionthat is needed to perform, you
know, is kind of gettingevaluated very closely, and
that's where you knoworganization are measuring as
far as how they can beatcompetition.
Therefore, I feel you knowskills and mapping them to the
(04:35):
actual work is becoming central,and whether it from an overall
talent and workforce perspective, be it things like hiring,
learning, internal mobility,workforce planning I think it's
probably touching all theseaspects and therefore, from our
perspective, I think skills isgoing to be the new currency
(04:58):
when it comes to measuringworkforce efficiency in the
future workforce efficiency inthe future.
Bill Banham (05:05):
Okay, very good.
Let's break it down a bit,though, by focusing on what a
lot of leaders ultimately careabout, which is the RRI.
Where do you see the greatestsource of return on investment
when it comes to companiesimplementing skills-first
strategies?
So, is that talent acquisition?
Is that internal mobility?
Will the best returns come fromthe upskilling?
(05:27):
Something else?
Shrikant Pattathil (05:29):
all of the above tell us more it's all of
the above, of course, and, likeyou said, roi is kind of uh, you
know, top of the mind for forall the leaders, so so so if you
have to start with, I feel youknow, for most of the
organization, depending on theirsize, all of these benefits, or
(05:50):
some of them, might be good orbad, but talent acquisition
probably is going to be, youknow, a game changer for
everybody.
So already in the reports, theorganizations which are using
skill-based workflows orskill-based hiring approaches,
platforms and so forth, they arereporting like a 25 percent,
(06:14):
you know, better ROI in terms oftheir at least speed to hire,
because they are able to mappeople and get them on board
quickly.
The second most important areacould be the whole upskilling,
because everybody has a talentworkforce today and they know
(06:38):
for sure that for tomorrow theyare not ready in terms of the
automation and what's coming up.
So definitely there is thiswhole, you know, and budget,
specifically, if you look atupskilling in many organizations
they have increased by somenumber, so probably close to 90%
(06:58):
.
So I think upskilling isanother area as well where the
skills first transformationapproach is going to have, you
know, a good bang for the buckfor organization.
Bill Banham (07:11):
So so I would say hand acquisition and upskilling,
and then others okay, I wasjust making some uh, quick notes
there as you're giving me thatanswer.
Um, let's focus on upskilling,sort of do a follow-up there in
terms of the upskilling piece.
So you've got lots of peoplebeing upskilled, trying to
remain relevant because of AI isincreasingly taking over
(07:34):
different duties.
How feasible is that?
What proportion of employeescan be upskilled versus the
fast-paced takeover of AI oflots of roles?
Inevitably, I guess what I'msaying is some roles will be
lost, right, because AI istaking over certain things.
Shrikant Pattathil (07:53):
Yeah, there's no, I would say.
You know, again, it depends thepercentages will depend from
organization to organization,but I feel at least 70% to 80%
of their workforce can beupskilled and there would be
about 20% 25% in terms oforganization, but I feel at
least 70 to 80% of theirworkforce can be upskilled and
there would be about 20, 25% interms of because those jobs also
don't exist.
So you probably there's nopoint skilling somebody for a
(08:14):
job which doesn't exist anymore.
So so obviously they will haveto do it for the new jobs and
for some of them there will besome sort of a reduction or
change in strategy, which isinevitable, I think.
Bill Banham (08:29):
Can you spell out for our listeners who are less
familiar what are the buildingblocks of a skills-first talent
intelligence platform?
Shrikant Pattathil (08:37):
Now, what we have kind of outlined based on
our experience is about five orsix different components that
are part of a talentintelligence platform.
However, if you're alreadyhaving a talent platform or an
HR platform, you may alreadyhave some of these things in
some shape or form.
(08:58):
So it's all about you know howdo you connect skills with it.
But just to the six mostimportant things that we think
are necessary.
Which constitutes a skillsfirst talent intelligence
platform is, of course, theskills graph, which comes in.
Intelligence platform is, ofcourse, the skills graph, which
comes in as, like the heart ofthe skilling platform.
(09:19):
It has to be AI-driven therehas to be like dynamic ontology,
it has to be able to map, andyou know, the entire
organization's various skills,you know based on role, jobs and
so forth.
So, and it has to becontinuously evolving.
So this whole skill graphcreation, as well as management
(09:42):
and, you know, maintenance of itor, you know, extensions of it,
is going to be very criticalfrom a platform perspective.
The second most important partis what I would say, the
existing role and job managementpiece, so that also and fairly
many organizations have that,but maybe they have to go
granular at the skill level andhave that built in.
(10:05):
The other two important piecesare one is the skill gap
analyzer, because, based on thenew jobs and the new roles that
you're defining, where are thejob, where the skills that are
that are missing and essentiallyagain here and they add AI
based engine, will probably makemake a lot of sense.
(10:27):
Third thing is you know mappingyour fourth thing is you're
mapping your content that youalready have on your sourcing,
making sure that those contentthe definition, the metadata has
the skills information, becauseotherwise you will do all this
systems and analysis and stufflike that, but if it's not
(10:49):
mapped to training or the toolsor the productivity systems that
you have in place, you will notbe able to do the just-in-time
automation that is needed.
And, of course, the two otherpieces that are also very
important is the personalizationaspect, so that whether you
know it's somebody on the jobassistance you're doing or
(11:11):
recommendations based on, youknow what role they are going to
change to or what you knowdepartment they're going to move
to.
You will need that personalizedapproach in terms of training
or giving the exact tools tomake somebody effective and, of
(11:31):
course, bringing all of themtogether, whether you have a
talent, intelligent platform, hrplatform, ats you know various
things, all of them talking thesame kind of language and
interacting with each other.
So the integration and theecosystem part is also very
important, because otherwisewhat happens is, you know, if
(11:52):
it's if they work in silos, thenwe will probably not get the
benefit.
So so yeah, these are the fiveor six components that we think
are important towards the end.
Bill Banham (12:02):
There you spoke about personalized tools to make
initiatives and programs moreeffective.
Uh, which is a nice lead intomy next question, which is I'm
guessing you're going to tell methat most of the time, folks
can partner with a technologyprovider these days, because
it's 2025 and they're reallygood at what they do.
But when can it still beappropriate to build versus
(12:25):
partner?
Shrikant Pattathil (12:27):
Yeah, that's a very interesting question.
It goes back to the ROIquestion as well, right?
I mean in terms of you needthis platform today, or three
months later or six months later, so so what, what, what?
What do you do?
And I think the the bestsituation for any talent
management organization is tobuild it, because this is, like
(12:50):
we said, so central to the wholeuh everything working
seamlessly.
However, you know, not everybodyhas the time and budget and
resources to do that.
So, therefore, you know, if youcan, what you can do out of the
six components that we definedis you can partner with the
(13:10):
platform, maybe for two or threeplatform things.
You, you kind of take their uhapis and configure it and
whatever is core to you maybethe personalization engine is,
or maybe the skill mapping is,or you know.
So you build that part.
So so the rest of it, you know,you, you kind of uh partner and
and eventually, when you canbuild it, you can build it.
(13:32):
But that should be the approach, I think.
But if you can really invest, Ithink this is something that
you should invest, becausecustomers will see the
difference.
Bill Banham (13:44):
Okay, great.
What customers?
Can you share a couple of usecases with us now, if that's
okay, of skills first,transformations crafted by your
global HCM tech?
What are a couple of brandsthat you're particularly proud
of helping?
Shrikant Pattathil (14:07):
and most of our customers that we are
working with is kind of eitherbuilding this or they are
piloted with first 50, 100 newcustomers and so forth.
So especially this wholeAI-based way of doing it.
Of course, there was evenearlier days, if you know.
There was skills, ontology andall of that that was there.
But the whole AI-based approachis fairly recent.
(14:27):
In the last two or three years,we did two One, we worked
directly with an end-userorganization which had like an
APS, which had like LMS and HRplatform and so forth, but none
of these platforms provided askill gap analyzer.
So, specifically what we didfor their recruitment use cases,
(14:51):
again to say that, okay, howcan you make your hiring process
much more efficient?
So we took all the resumes, jobdescriptions, the profile data
and past interview data andeverything and created a skills
ontology that is specific totheir uh recruitment sort of uh
(15:15):
needs, and then we fed it uhthrough an uh analyzer, uh to
their uh ats engine and otherengines, while dynamically
mapping skills to whateverprofiles will come, and that
increased their overallefficiency in terms of, you know
, filtering the profiles andhiring the right kind of
(15:35):
candidates.
So so that's, that was oneexample.
The second example that comes tomy mind right now is we we did
it for for a leadership coachingplatform.
So so their thing was, you know, in how to make the leadership
coaching much more efficient andpersonalized.
(15:56):
So one of the things we did iswe built the assessment, or a
360 degree sort of an assessmentfor the leader and then, based
on all the comments that werecollected, we did a skill gap
analysis and the profile and theinterest and so forth, and then
provided targeted journeys andlearning maps.
So then what happened was eachindividual leader got their
(16:21):
tailored curriculum rather thana standard one curriculum rather
than a standard one thing that,okay, if I want to become a
manager, I don't have to do allthis, but it's very specific to
my skills and that improved theoverall uh, you know engagement
plus the you know outcomes aswell okay, thank you very much.
Bill Banham (16:40):
Uh, many organizations talk about skills
ontologies, uh, but few use them.
Well, perhaps, uh, what advicewould you have for companies
building or adopting a skillstaxonomy?
Shrikant Pattathil (16:54):
the advice is to you know, make it a
long-term sort of a vision.
Uh, what happens is, in manycases, you and that's also
because you are you're notchoosing the right platform to
build this on.
So many of the providers, liketoday's digital learning
providers, large companies likeSkillsoft of the world, you know
(17:19):
, degree to the world they aregiving you tools in which you
can build this ontology andmaintain it and customize it and
, you know, change that wholething.
So some of them may be inprocess, but others are, are
already out there.
So if you do that and then doit in a very structured way,
then you can sustain it, becauseit's not a one-time thing and
(17:41):
in the past, what many peoplethought was oh, I will just
download an industry specificontology, apply it to my
organization and I'm done right,I don't want to make any
changes.
But you have to adapt it toyour own industry, own job roles
, own organization, owndepartments and continuously
manage that on an ongoing basis.
Then you will see the benefit.
(18:02):
So my thing is you know, if yougo down this path, then, you
know, invest in a good platformthat allows you to do that, so
that you can do this by focusingon the domain and creating the
skill set, not worry about howit is done behind the scenes.
Bill Banham (18:24):
We are already coming towards the end of this
particular conversation.
Just a few more questions foryou before we do wrap up.
In what ways can a skills-firstapproach help future-proof an
organization against disruption?
We are living in disruptivetimes, such as economic shifts
or tech-driven job displacement.
(18:45):
We spoke a little while agoabout, hey, how ai is impacting
certain jobs and certain roles,um, but maybe you can fill in
some more gaps for us yeah, Iwould say, in a way, in my view,
we're trying to create ananswer for the question.
Shrikant Pattathil (19:02):
I mean this particular problem statement,
right, uh, because today theproblem we have is because we
don't have a good idea of theskill sets and how the
transformation will need tohappen, so it kind of makes it
very, very hard.
So if we build the talentinformation system which is
(19:24):
skills-based and centrallymanaged around that concept
system which is skills based,centrally managed around that
concept, chances are that infuture disruptions, you will be
much better prepared to tacklethem, better than your
competition, because if you'vedone this correctly and
implemented this correctly, thenthose disruptions will be
easier to tackle and you you'llsee them more as opportunities
(19:47):
than as problems.
Bill Banham (19:50):
Okay, what I'm hearing is just prepare, get it
right, and it won't be so bad.
Very good.
Shrikant Pattathil (19:58):
But it's not like it's a complex task.
It's not a very simple thing toget done, so it's a process.
Bill Banham (20:08):
One thing that we haven't really covered yet,
though, with all these differentdisruptions and complexities,
is, uh, the growing role of the,the gig workforce and
contingent work workers.
You know, that number seems tobe getting bigger, certainly in
certain job roles.
How can a skills first modelfairly and effectively
incorporate non-traditionaltalent?
(20:30):
Can we, can we even call themnon-traditional talent anymore?
I feel, like the gig economyhas just been on the rise for so
long.
But where do they fit into allof this?
Shrikant Pattathil (20:38):
yeah, well, when it comes to gig, and even
in in our organizations as well,right, we tend to kind of silo
it to specific types of work andspecific type of projects and
the problem is because oursupply chain doesn't understand,
you know, how that skill isrelevant to the current job and
(21:01):
if it's still so granular.
And in most cases the gigworkforce or contingent
workforce is managed in atotally different system, so
they are disconnected.
So one is, we have to bringthem in to the ecosystem and the
skills-based way of doing andconnecting and creating that
graph across all the talent thatis available, whether it's your
talent, gig talent, partnertalent.
(21:22):
You know, once you have that,you will be making more informed
, better decisions and you willlook at all types of talent in a
in a very, you know, democraticsort of a way and equal provide
, be able to provide equalopportunities, which is which is
good for you in terms ofgetting the competitive edge, as
well as good for people,because they get to do what they
(21:45):
like to do and that takes me tomy final question for today,
which is the same question thatI always ask my guests, and
that's how can we connect withyou?
Bill Banham (21:54):
so is that linkedin ?
Do you want to share your emailaddress?
Are you all over tiktok andinstagram and all those places?
Um, and, of course, how can ourlisteners learn more about
harbinger group?
Shrikant Pattathil (22:05):
firstly, about harbinger you can go to
wwwharbingergroupcom.
That's the best place to findthe latest on Harbinger Group.
You can also write to us atinfo at harbingergroupcom.
Our team is pretty responsivefrom that perspective.
If you have to reach meindividually, you can email is
the best option,freekanthabijagroupcom and, of
(22:28):
course, linkedin is too.
I'm pretty active on LinkedIn,so you can just look me up
srikantpatatilhabijagroup andyou will find me, and that's
also another way to connect.
Bill Banham (22:40):
Excellent, and there will, of course, listeners
, as always, be links in theshow notes.
And that just leaves me to sayfor today Shere Khan, thank you
very much for being my guest.
I've appreciated your time andenjoyed the conversation.
Shrikant Pattathil (22:53):
Thanks, Bill .
Thank you for those insightfulquestions and, you know, thanks
for having me.
Bill Banham (23:01):
And listeners as always.
Until next time, happy working.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show.
If you enjoyed this episode,why not subscribe and listen to
some of the hundreds of episodespublished by HR Gazette and
remember for what's new in theworld of work?
Subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
HRGazettecom.
Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's
most downloaded and sharedpodcasts designed for HR pros,
talent execs, tech enthusiastsand business leaders.
For hundreds more episodes andwhat's new in the world of work,
subscribe to the show, followus on social media and visit
hrgazettecom and visithrgazettecom.
Bill Banham (00:26):
Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show.
Hello listeners, this is yourhost today, Bill Bannam, and in
this episode we're going todiscuss why HR tech platforms
should consider pivoting toskills-first talent intelligence
.
Listen as we consider suchfactors as what are the building
blocks of a skills-first talentintelligence platform?
(00:47):
What is the greatest source ofROI when companies implement
skills-first strategies?
What role does AI play in askills-first talent intelligence
platform or learning approach?
And joining me on the showtoday is , president and CTO
over at Harbinger Group, aglobal tech company that builds
(01:10):
products and solutionstransforming the way people work
and learn.
Srikanth, welcome to the HRChat Show.
It's a pleasure to have youjoining me today.
Shrikant Pattathil (01:19):
Thanks, bill .
It's a pleasure to be heretalking to you as well, so
looking forward to theconversation.
Bill Banham (01:26):
So, beyond my intro just a moment ago, why don't
you start by telling ourlisteners a bit about yourself,
your career background, what youget up to at the company, and
also something that gets you upin the morning, something that
you're inspired by that gets youup in the morning?
Shrikant Pattathil (01:46):
why that gets you up in the morning yeah,
thanks, bill, for the for forthe introduction and, um, yeah,
just to add to that, uh, youknow my uh passion over the
years has been to work with thecompanies to turn their you know
ideas, uh, innovations, intoreal products.
And, uh, over the years, youknow, I have been excited about
all the emerging technologiesbecause that opens up a lot of
(02:08):
new options into how we buildnew solutions, how we help
customers do better and thingsmuch more efficiently,
innovatively, and so forth.
So, be it emerging tech or beit like a new go-to market or a
new feature, those are the kindsof things that really excite me
(02:30):
and bring the best out of me,and I've been fortunate over the
two decades to collaborate withtechnical leaders, product
leaders in learning and HRorganizations and even in
healthcare space as well.
So, given the focus of today'sconversations on skilling and
learning, I'm really lookingforward to, you know, sharing
(02:54):
some of my experience andinsights.
That seems like everything isunder disruption right now.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat
Podcast.
If you enjoy the audio contentwe produce, you'll love our
articles on the HR Gazette.
Learn more at hrgazettecom.
And now back to the show.
Bill Banham (03:18):
I know that one of your key interests is AI, and we
can't go an episode of the HRChat Show without talking about
how AI is disrupting things, forexample, and I'm sure we'll be
getting to that later on.
Today.
Let's talk about skills.
For the time being, though.
In your view, are skills acurrency that measures workforce
(03:40):
efficiency?
Is it the best currency to dothat?
If so, why is that?
Shrikant Pattathil (03:46):
We are positioned in the HR and
learning space, so everything weview from the lens of you know
how we can transform the waypeople work and learn, and today
we feel that we are entering anera of hyper-personalization
and hyper-automation, if youwill.
So, given that I think,irrespective of what job or role
(04:11):
you're performing in theorganization, the level of
proficiency or the precisionthat is needed to perform, you
know, is kind of gettingevaluated very closely, and
that's where you knoworganization are measuring as
far as how they can beatcompetition.
Therefore, I feel you knowskills and mapping them to the
(04:35):
actual work is becoming central,and whether it from an overall
talent and workforce perspective, be it things like hiring,
learning, internal mobility,workforce planning I think it's
probably touching all theseaspects and therefore, from our
perspective, I think skills isgoing to be the new currency
(04:58):
when it comes to measuringworkforce efficiency in the
future workforce efficiency inthe future.
Bill Banham (05:05):
Okay, very good.
Let's break it down a bit,though, by focusing on what a
lot of leaders ultimately careabout, which is the RRI.
Where do you see the greatestsource of return on investment
when it comes to companiesimplementing skills-first
strategies?
So, is that talent acquisition?
Is that internal mobility?
Will the best returns come fromthe upskilling?
(05:27):
Something else?
Shrikant Pattathil (05:29):
all of the above tell us more it's all of
the above, of course, and, likeyou said, roi is kind of uh, you
know, top of the mind for forall the leaders, so so so if you
have to start with, I feel youknow, for most of the
organization, depending on theirsize, all of these benefits, or
(05:50):
some of them, might be good orbad, but talent acquisition
probably is going to be, youknow, a game changer for
everybody.
So already in the reports, theorganizations which are using
skill-based workflows orskill-based hiring approaches,
platforms and so forth, they arereporting like a 25 percent,
(06:14):
you know, better ROI in terms oftheir at least speed to hire,
because they are able to mappeople and get them on board
quickly.
The second most important areacould be the whole upskilling,
because everybody has a talentworkforce today and they know
(06:38):
for sure that for tomorrow theyare not ready in terms of the
automation and what's coming up.
So definitely there is thiswhole, you know, and budget,
specifically, if you look atupskilling in many organizations
they have increased by somenumber, so probably close to 90%
(06:58):
.
So I think upskilling isanother area as well where the
skills first transformationapproach is going to have, you
know, a good bang for the buckfor organization.
Bill Banham (07:11):
So so I would say hand acquisition and upskilling,
and then others okay, I wasjust making some uh, quick notes
there as you're giving me thatanswer.
Um, let's focus on upskilling,sort of do a follow-up there in
terms of the upskilling piece.
So you've got lots of peoplebeing upskilled, trying to
remain relevant because of AI isincreasingly taking over
(07:34):
different duties.
How feasible is that?
What proportion of employeescan be upskilled versus the
fast-paced takeover of AI oflots of roles?
Inevitably, I guess what I'msaying is some roles will be
lost, right, because AI istaking over certain things.
Shrikant Pattathil (07:53):
Yeah, there's no, I would say.
You know, again, it depends thepercentages will depend from
organization to organization,but I feel at least 70% to 80%
of their workforce can beupskilled and there would be
about 20% 25% in terms oforganization, but I feel at
least 70 to 80% of theirworkforce can be upskilled and
there would be about 20, 25% interms of because those jobs also
don't exist.
So you probably there's nopoint skilling somebody for a
(08:14):
job which doesn't exist anymore.
So so obviously they will haveto do it for the new jobs and
for some of them there will besome sort of a reduction or
change in strategy, which isinevitable, I think.
Bill Banham (08:29):
Can you spell out for our listeners who are less
familiar what are the buildingblocks of a skills-first talent
intelligence platform?
Shrikant Pattathil (08:37):
Now, what we have kind of outlined based on
our experience is about five orsix different components that
are part of a talentintelligence platform.
However, if you're alreadyhaving a talent platform or an
HR platform, you may alreadyhave some of these things in
some shape or form.
(08:58):
So it's all about you know howdo you connect skills with it.
But just to the six mostimportant things that we think
are necessary.
Which constitutes a skillsfirst talent intelligence
platform is, of course, theskills graph, which comes in.
Intelligence platform is, ofcourse, the skills graph, which
comes in as, like the heart ofthe skilling platform.
(09:19):
It has to be AI-driven therehas to be like dynamic ontology,
it has to be able to map, andyou know, the entire
organization's various skills,you know based on role, jobs and
so forth.
So, and it has to becontinuously evolving.
So this whole skill graphcreation, as well as management
(09:42):
and, you know, maintenance of itor, you know, extensions of it,
is going to be very criticalfrom a platform perspective.
The second most important partis what I would say, the
existing role and job managementpiece, so that also and fairly
many organizations have that,but maybe they have to go
granular at the skill level andhave that built in.
(10:05):
The other two important piecesare one is the skill gap
analyzer, because, based on thenew jobs and the new roles that
you're defining, where are thejob, where the skills that are
that are missing and essentiallyagain here and they add AI
based engine, will probably makemake a lot of sense.
(10:27):
Third thing is you know mappingyour fourth thing is you're
mapping your content that youalready have on your sourcing,
making sure that those contentthe definition, the metadata has
the skills information, becauseotherwise you will do all this
systems and analysis and stufflike that, but if it's not
(10:49):
mapped to training or the toolsor the productivity systems that
you have in place, you will notbe able to do the just-in-time
automation that is needed.
And, of course, the two otherpieces that are also very
important is the personalizationaspect, so that whether you
know it's somebody on the jobassistance you're doing or
(11:11):
recommendations based on, youknow what role they are going to
change to or what you knowdepartment they're going to move
to.
You will need that personalizedapproach in terms of training
or giving the exact tools tomake somebody effective and, of
(11:31):
course, bringing all of themtogether, whether you have a
talent, intelligent platform, hrplatform, ats you know various
things, all of them talking thesame kind of language and
interacting with each other.
So the integration and theecosystem part is also very
important, because otherwisewhat happens is, you know, if
(11:52):
it's if they work in silos, thenwe will probably not get the
benefit.
So so yeah, these are the fiveor six components that we think
are important towards the end.
Bill Banham (12:02):
There you spoke about personalized tools to make
initiatives and programs moreeffective.
Uh, which is a nice lead intomy next question, which is I'm
guessing you're going to tell methat most of the time, folks
can partner with a technologyprovider these days, because
it's 2025 and they're reallygood at what they do.
But when can it still beappropriate to build versus
(12:25):
partner?
Shrikant Pattathil (12:27):
Yeah, that's a very interesting question.
It goes back to the ROIquestion as well, right?
I mean in terms of you needthis platform today, or three
months later or six months later, so so what, what, what?
What do you do?
And I think the the bestsituation for any talent
management organization is tobuild it, because this is, like
(12:50):
we said, so central to the wholeuh everything working
seamlessly.
However, you know, not everybodyhas the time and budget and
resources to do that.
So, therefore, you know, if youcan, what you can do out of the
six components that we definedis you can partner with the
(13:10):
platform, maybe for two or threeplatform things.
You, you kind of take their uhapis and configure it and
whatever is core to you maybethe personalization engine is,
or maybe the skill mapping is,or you know.
So you build that part.
So so the rest of it, you know,you, you kind of uh partner and
and eventually, when you canbuild it, you can build it.
(13:32):
But that should be the approach, I think.
But if you can really invest, Ithink this is something that
you should invest, becausecustomers will see the
difference.
Bill Banham (13:44):
Okay, great.
What customers?
Can you share a couple of usecases with us now, if that's
okay, of skills first,transformations crafted by your
global HCM tech?
What are a couple of brandsthat you're particularly proud
of helping?
Shrikant Pattathil (14:07):
and most of our customers that we are
working with is kind of eitherbuilding this or they are
piloted with first 50, 100 newcustomers and so forth.
So especially this wholeAI-based way of doing it.
Of course, there was evenearlier days, if you know.
There was skills, ontology andall of that that was there.
But the whole AI-based approachis fairly recent.
(14:27):
In the last two or three years,we did two One, we worked
directly with an end-userorganization which had like an
APS, which had like LMS and HRplatform and so forth, but none
of these platforms provided askill gap analyzer.
So, specifically what we didfor their recruitment use cases,
(14:51):
again to say that, okay, howcan you make your hiring process
much more efficient?
So we took all the resumes, jobdescriptions, the profile data
and past interview data andeverything and created a skills
ontology that is specific totheir uh recruitment sort of uh
(15:15):
needs, and then we fed it uhthrough an uh analyzer, uh to
their uh ats engine and otherengines, while dynamically
mapping skills to whateverprofiles will come, and that
increased their overallefficiency in terms of, you know
, filtering the profiles andhiring the right kind of
(15:35):
candidates.
So so that's, that was oneexample.
The second example that comes tomy mind right now is we we did
it for for a leadership coachingplatform.
So so their thing was, you know, in how to make the leadership
coaching much more efficient andpersonalized.
(15:56):
So one of the things we did iswe built the assessment, or a
360 degree sort of an assessmentfor the leader and then, based
on all the comments that werecollected, we did a skill gap
analysis and the profile and theinterest and so forth, and then
provided targeted journeys andlearning maps.
So then what happened was eachindividual leader got their
(16:21):
tailored curriculum rather thana standard one curriculum rather
than a standard one thing that,okay, if I want to become a
manager, I don't have to do allthis, but it's very specific to
my skills and that improved theoverall uh, you know engagement
plus the you know outcomes aswell okay, thank you very much.
Bill Banham (16:40):
Uh, many organizations talk about skills
ontologies, uh, but few use them.
Well, perhaps, uh, what advicewould you have for companies
building or adopting a skillstaxonomy?
Shrikant Pattathil (16:54):
the advice is to you know, make it a
long-term sort of a vision.
Uh, what happens is, in manycases, you and that's also
because you are you're notchoosing the right platform to
build this on.
So many of the providers, liketoday's digital learning
providers, large companies likeSkillsoft of the world, you know
(17:19):
, degree to the world they aregiving you tools in which you
can build this ontology andmaintain it and customize it and
, you know, change that wholething.
So some of them may be inprocess, but others are, are
already out there.
So if you do that and then doit in a very structured way,
then you can sustain it, becauseit's not a one-time thing and
(17:41):
in the past, what many peoplethought was oh, I will just
download an industry specificontology, apply it to my
organization and I'm done right,I don't want to make any
changes.
But you have to adapt it toyour own industry, own job roles
, own organization, owndepartments and continuously
manage that on an ongoing basis.
Then you will see the benefit.
(18:02):
So my thing is you know, if yougo down this path, then, you
know, invest in a good platformthat allows you to do that, so
that you can do this by focusingon the domain and creating the
skill set, not worry about howit is done behind the scenes.
Bill Banham (18:24):
We are already coming towards the end of this
particular conversation.
Just a few more questions foryou before we do wrap up.
In what ways can a skills-firstapproach help future-proof an
organization against disruption?
We are living in disruptivetimes, such as economic shifts
or tech-driven job displacement.
(18:45):
We spoke a little while agoabout, hey, how ai is impacting
certain jobs and certain roles,um, but maybe you can fill in
some more gaps for us yeah, Iwould say, in a way, in my view,
we're trying to create ananswer for the question.
Shrikant Pattathil (19:02):
I mean this particular problem statement,
right, uh, because today theproblem we have is because we
don't have a good idea of theskill sets and how the
transformation will need tohappen, so it kind of makes it
very, very hard.
So if we build the talentinformation system which is
(19:24):
skills-based and centrallymanaged around that concept
system which is skills based,centrally managed around that
concept, chances are that infuture disruptions, you will be
much better prepared to tacklethem, better than your
competition, because if you'vedone this correctly and
implemented this correctly, thenthose disruptions will be
easier to tackle and you you'llsee them more as opportunities
(19:47):
than as problems.
Bill Banham (19:50):
Okay, what I'm hearing is just prepare, get it
right, and it won't be so bad.
Very good.
Shrikant Pattathil (19:58):
But it's not like it's a complex task.
It's not a very simple thing toget done, so it's a process.
Bill Banham (20:08):
One thing that we haven't really covered yet,
though, with all these differentdisruptions and complexities,
is, uh, the growing role of the,the gig workforce and
contingent work workers.
You know, that number seems tobe getting bigger, certainly in
certain job roles.
How can a skills first modelfairly and effectively
incorporate non-traditionaltalent?
(20:30):
Can we, can we even call themnon-traditional talent anymore?
I feel, like the gig economyhas just been on the rise for so
long.
But where do they fit into allof this?
Shrikant Pattathil (20:38):
yeah, well, when it comes to gig, and even
in in our organizations as well,right, we tend to kind of silo
it to specific types of work andspecific type of projects and
the problem is because oursupply chain doesn't understand,
you know, how that skill isrelevant to the current job and
(21:01):
if it's still so granular.
And in most cases the gigworkforce or contingent
workforce is managed in atotally different system, so
they are disconnected.
So one is, we have to bringthem in to the ecosystem and the
skills-based way of doing andconnecting and creating that
graph across all the talent thatis available, whether it's your
talent, gig talent, partnertalent.
(21:22):
You know, once you have that,you will be making more informed
, better decisions and you willlook at all types of talent in a
in a very, you know, democraticsort of a way and equal provide
, be able to provide equalopportunities, which is which is
good for you in terms ofgetting the competitive edge, as
well as good for people,because they get to do what they
(21:45):
like to do and that takes me tomy final question for today,
which is the same question thatI always ask my guests, and
that's how can we connect withyou?
Bill Banham (21:54):
so is that linkedin ?
Do you want to share your emailaddress?
Are you all over tiktok andinstagram and all those places?
Um, and, of course, how can ourlisteners learn more about
harbinger group?
Shrikant Pattathil (22:05):
firstly, about harbinger you can go to
wwwharbingergroupcom.
That's the best place to findthe latest on Harbinger Group.
You can also write to us atinfo at harbingergroupcom.
Our team is pretty responsivefrom that perspective.
If you have to reach meindividually, you can email is
the best option,freekanthabijagroupcom and, of
(22:28):
course, linkedin is too.
I'm pretty active on LinkedIn,so you can just look me up
srikantpatatilhabijagroup andyou will find me, and that's
also another way to connect.
Bill Banham (22:40):
Excellent, and there will, of course, listeners
, as always, be links in theshow notes.
And that just leaves me to sayfor today Shere Khan, thank you
very much for being my guest.
I've appreciated your time andenjoyed the conversation.
Shrikant Pattathil (22:53):
Thanks, Bill .
Thank you for those insightfulquestions and, you know, thanks
for having me.
Bill Banham (23:01):
And listeners as always.
Until next time, happy working.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show.
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