April 7, 2025 • 14 mins
Have you ever considered partnering with a Professional Employer Organization (PEO) to support your business? Hear from Dr. Carmen Armstrong, ADP TotalSource Client Relations Executive, and Dena Grammas, ADP Totalsource HR Business Partner, as they discuss PEOs, and how small businesses can benefit from them. Listen in as we cover:
- [01:09] What is a PEO?
- [01:34] Why would a small business consider a PEO?
- [02:35] How does a PEO solve for small business challenges?
- [03:08] What is an HR Business Partner?
- [05:10] How HR Business Partners help clients with challenges
- [06:29] How PEOs help clients navigate complexity
- [08:38] The PEO specialists that support clients
- [09:46] How a client’s employees benefit from a PEO
- [10:49] Defining success as an HRBP
- [12:06] Evaluating if your business is right for a PEO
This content is based on generally accepted HR practices, is advisory in nature, and does not constitute legal advice or other professional services. ADP does not warrant or guarantee the accuracy, reliability, and completeness of the content. Employers are encouraged to consult with legal counsel for advice regarding their organization's compliance with applicable laws. This content is current as of the published date.
Copyright © 2025 ADP, Inc. All Rights Reserved. The ADP logo, ADP, RUN Powered by ADP, and HR{preneur} are registered trademarks of ADP, Inc. and its affiliates. All other marks are the property of their respective owners.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jim (00:00):
Have you ever considered partnering with a PEO to support your business?
Explore the benefits, solutions,and trusted advice that a
PEO partner can provide.
Welcome to HRPreneur.
I'm Jim Duffy. From MainStreet to Your Street,
the HRPreneur Podcast is centered aroundhelping small businesses like yours gain
the knowledge you seek from HR, payroll,and hiring to time employment taxes,
(00:22):
employee benefits, and business insurance.
Today we're talking about ProfessionalEmployer Organizations, or you
may hear them referred to as PEOs.
What are they?
Why should a small businessconsider outsourcing their
human resources to a PEO?
How do they work and what are thebenefits to your small business?
We're joined by Dr. Carmen Armstrong,ADP TotalSource Client Relations
(00:45):
Executive, and Dena Grammas ADP,Totalsource HR Business Partner.
Welcome to the program, both of you.
Carmen (00:51):
Thank you, Jim.
Happy to be here.
Jim (00:55):
Many of our listeners may not be familiar with the professional employer
organization or a PEO as we will becalling it throughout this podcast.
Carmen, can you start us offplease and explain what a PEO is?
Carmen (01:08):
Sure,
Jim.
A Professional EmployerOrganization or PEO is a business
partnership or co-employmentrelationship with a business that
allows the PEO to perform various employeeadministration tasks such as payroll
and employee benefits administration,and provide human resources support to.
Jim (01:33):
Carmen, thank you for that.
Can you explain why would a small businessthink about outsourcing their HR to a PEO?
Carmen (01:40):
Well, in general, small to mid-size businesses consider
partnering with a PEO to supporttheir organizational infrastructure.
Whether this means supplementingin-house HR support, helping the
business grow in employee headcount, ormeeting financial goals and objectives.
A small business joins the PEOrelationship to allow executive
(02:04):
decision makers to focus on corebusiness operations while gaining
expert HR guidance, employer ofchoice, benefits offerings, and
assistance with mitigating employeeemployment related compliance risk.
Owners also look to outsource complexHR functions like payroll, benefits
(02:27):
administration, and employmentrelated compliance management.
Jim (02:32):
Carmen, thank you.
Uh, Dena, I have aquestion for you, if I may.
How does a PEO solve forsmall business challenges?
Dena (02:39):
Small businesses often struggle with the complexity of HR from
compliance with ever-changing employmentand labor laws to handling employee
relations and managing employee.
A PEO simplifies this by actingas a co-employer providing
expertise, infrastructure, andeconomies of scale that a small
business might not have on its own.
Jim (03:00):
So, Dena, uh, we introduced you as an HR business partner
and that you work closely withthe businesses that are on a PEO.
Can you please explain what an HR businesspartner is and what you do typically
to support a small business on a PEO?
Dena (03:15):
An HR business partner, (also known as an HRBP) is a strategic advisor
who helps business owners navigate thecomplexities of HR employment related
compliance and workforce management beyonda traditional HR generalist, an HRBP
works proactively to align a company'sHR strategies with their business goals.
(03:36):
I'm at my best when I'm an extensionof the leadership team providing my
expertise in areas like multi-stateemployment related compliance, employee
relations, leadership coaching.
Compensation, employeebenefits and HR data analytics.
I work with business owners to preventissues before they arise and create
(03:56):
strategies that help support growth.
I'll make you aware ofopportunities and how to navigate
employment related blind spots.
We bring a fresh perspectiveto your business and also offer
strategic insights and best practices.
Many of us, for example, have decadesof experience in human resources, but
each day brings us opportunities toconnect with our clients to help with
(04:20):
their day-to-day needs, but we alsoalign with their long-term goals.
Some clients join us tosupport their growth strategy.
I personally support clients withlocations in many states, and as their
businesses expand, they need to know theirpractices align with local, state, and
federal employment related requirements.
Employee relations and HR consultationsare a big part of my role because
(04:42):
employers want the assurances that they'retaking the appropriate steps to address
things like performance issues or maybe tounderstand how to best support an employee
who needs a disability accommodation.
I also reach out to my clients asemployment related legislation changes,
or even if I see something in thenews or a trade publication that might
(05:03):
apply to their industry or their goals.
Jim (05:06):
Dena, thank you for that background.
You clearly cover a lot of ground.
Uh, can you please share a specificexample of how you have approached,
say, a, a client challenge?
Dena (05:17):
I just helped a business that operates in 16 states ensure compliance with multiple state paid leave laws,
differing PTO accrual payout requirements and
and helped them navigate the concerns of unlimited PTO policies.
They also had a local paid leave ordinance to consider, just to keep things interesting.
Another business owner came to meabout an ADA accommodation request from
(05:41):
an employee with a medical condition.
The employee requested workfrom home as the accommodation.
I guided them through the interactiveprocess by explaining that the ADA
doesn't require automatic approvalof these types of requests, but
does require a good faith effortto find an effective solution.
Through several discussions, wedetermined her essential duties
(06:02):
could be performed remotely withonly a few minor adjustments.
By adding scheduled check-ins andcommunicating clear performance
expectations, the owner was relieved.
We could find a way to structureaccommodations that supported the
employee's wellbeing while maintainingaccountability and productivity.
Jim (06:21):
Dena, just a bit ago, you talked about this business that you were
supporting was operating in 16 states.
That certainly must bringa lot of complexity.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about what that would look
like and how you helped thebusiness navigate that complexity?
Dena (06:36):
Sure.
Imagine being a small business expandinginto multiple states, each with their
own employment laws, employment taxrequirements, and paid leave policies.
With a PEO, a business owner can focuson growth because they know they have a
team of HR experts who can assist withemployment related compliance and provide
best practices to help reduce risk.
(06:58):
For example, attractingand retaining top talent.
Many businesses can't offer Fortune500 health benefits on their own, but a
PEO gives small businesses and theiremployees access to technology benefits
and retirement plans at competitive rates.
I've found that navigating state paidleave laws have been challenging for
employers who have a multi-state presenceand feel uncertain about how the laws
(07:21):
apply to them and their employees.
Business may feel confident inknowing their own state laws,
but as they grow their business.
They find themselves in unfamiliarterritory, quite literally, and
don't know what they don't know yet.
We stay on top of those regulationsso our clients can focus on their
business and their employees.
Jim (07:42):
Dena, thank you for explaining that truly a wealth of expert information.
Can you give us some examples for ourlisteners of how you've guided your
clients on these kind of specific topics?
Dena (07:54):
I've recently coached clients through complicated employee relations
issues like managing return tooffice policies, mandatory employee
assistance referrals, and developingcompetitive paid family leave programs.
I'm currently working with a client whoset an ambitious goal for their business.
They want to achieve a local media'sranking of top places to work.
(08:16):
It is a very ambitious, multi-yeargoal, and they are just getting started.
Our services can help them achieve the employee engagement
they need which is one of the
components they need to achievetheir goal. Its going to take dedication but it’s going to be fun partnering.
Jim (08:31):
Dena, many thanks for all of that information and additional context.
Very, very helpful in explainingwhat the PEO is in your role.
Uh, if I may, Carmen, uh, earlieryou talked about a team of HR
specialists that partner with a PEO.
Can you tell us a bit
more about these experts?
Carmen (08:48):
Yes.
Uh, typically with a PEO you get afull team of HR specialists that cover
everything from payroll to employeebenefit and everything in between.
Our team of specialists include theHR business partner who serves as the
account manager and provides HR guidance,payroll business partner who supports
(09:10):
the client's payroll processing needs.
A risk and safety specialistthat supports workplace safety
and assist with compliance.
A team of benefits servicesspecialists who help with employee
benefits administration andassist with compliance businesses.
Also receive support with employer taxfiling and reporting state unemployment
(09:35):
Claims, compliant employee handbooks and
talent management services.
Jim (09:41):
Carmen, thank you for that information.
Uh, Dena, a quick question for you.
So we haven't touched onthe employees just yet.
You know, of course these businessowners are making decisions that
would impact their employees.
Can you tell me and our listeners abouthow they benefit when their business
owner decides to partner with a PEO?
Dena (10:00):
Employees are thrilled when their employer joins a PEO.
Even if they don't know what a PEOis, they have access to Fortune 500
health benefits and support access towellness programs and more employees
and their families enjoy our moneysaving Perks at Work discount program and
our confidential employee assistanceprogram when they need a little
extra help through difficult times.
(10:21):
Partnering with a PEO, frees the employer of administrativeemployer tasks, to allow them to
focus on business, their business.
Another benefit we shouldn't overlook isthat employers receive a designated risk
and safety specialist who keeps employeessafe with personalized safety programs
designed for the business' work site.
Jim (10:41):
So it sounds like you really see it all as an HR business partner.
Uh, let's switch gears here for amoment and let's talk about success.
How do you define success as an HRBP?
What do you enjoy most about the role?
Dena (10:54):
I see success as an HRBP
come down to making an impact on
both the business and its employees.
I know I'm successful when thebusiness owner sees me, not just as
their HR contact, but as a trustedadvisor that helps them navigate
challenges, make informed decisions,and ultimately grow their business.
Sometimes I'm just their soundingboard as they talk through an employment-related issue. It's rewarding when a business owner truly partners with me.
(11:22):
Not seeing HR as a speed bump inthe road, but as a tool for growth.
When they trust me, I can proactivelyhelp them structure their business,
assist with retaining top talent,and create a great work environment.
At the end of the day, my successis measured by the success
of the companies I support.
Seeing a business grow, watching itsleaders flourish, and knowing that I
(11:44):
played a role in making work better.
I enjoy most is the variety andthe strategic nature of the work.
Each day is different problem solving,relationship building strategy.
Jim (11:58):
Dena, thank you for all that information.
That's excellent context.
Uh, Carmen, if I may please turnto you, uh, as we begin to wrap up.
Uh, we have learned some greatinformation about PEOs today, and, uh,
the question I have is about, um, whatshould a business ask themselves as
they evaluate and consider using a PEO?
(12:18):
Are there certain, for example, industriesor businesses of a certain size that
are better suited for a PEO than others?
Carmen (12:25):
I think this question goes back to the business's infrastructure,
the business strategy and goals.
Businesses considering and evaluatingPEOs have assessed what they need to do
with their business to be competitiveand achieved sustainable success.
They have identified business objectivesand goals and need help to maintain
(12:48):
critical areas of their business, likeHR, payroll, and employee benefits.
They can focus on effectively implementingtheir overall business strategy.
The beauty of a PEO is that thePEO model is well suited for
businesses in most industries.
We have clients who are nonprofits,governmental contractors, to
(13:12):
warehousing and professional services.
Jim (13:15):
Carmen, thank you for that.
Uh, this brings us tothe end of the episode.
Uh, thank you again, Carmenand Dena for joining us.
We have really learned a lot aboutPEOs and in particular about how the
both of you really partner closelywith these business clients to help
them navigate the many employmentrelated challenges they face every day.
Presented by ADP,
(13:37):
HRPreneur focuses on the entrepreneursand business drivers who are shaping the
growth of their companies and positivelyimpacting the lives of their employees.
With each episode, we'll bring theexperts to you, answer your questions,
and help you think beyond today so youcan discover more success tomorrow.
As always, thanks for listening to HRPreneur.
Have you ever considered partnering with a PEO to support your business?
Explore the benefits, solutions,and trusted advice that a
PEO partner can provide.
Welcome to HRPreneur.
I'm Jim Duffy. From MainStreet to Your Street,
the HRPreneur Podcast is centered aroundhelping small businesses like yours gain
the knowledge you seek from HR, payroll,and hiring to time employment taxes,
(00:22):
employee benefits, and business insurance.
Today we're talking about ProfessionalEmployer Organizations, or you
may hear them referred to as PEOs.
What are they?
Why should a small businessconsider outsourcing their
human resources to a PEO?
How do they work and what are thebenefits to your small business?
We're joined by Dr. Carmen Armstrong,ADP TotalSource Client Relations
(00:45):
Executive, and Dena Grammas ADP,Totalsource HR Business Partner.
Welcome to the program, both of you.
Carmen (00:51):
Thank you, Jim.
Happy to be here.
Jim (00:55):
Many of our listeners may not be familiar with the professional employer
organization or a PEO as we will becalling it throughout this podcast.
Carmen, can you start us offplease and explain what a PEO is?
Carmen (01:08):
Sure,
Jim.
A Professional EmployerOrganization or PEO is a business
partnership or co-employmentrelationship with a business that
allows the PEO to perform various employeeadministration tasks such as payroll
and employee benefits administration,and provide human resources support to.
Jim (01:33):
Carmen, thank you for that.
Can you explain why would a small businessthink about outsourcing their HR to a PEO?
Carmen (01:40):
Well, in general, small to mid-size businesses consider
partnering with a PEO to supporttheir organizational infrastructure.
Whether this means supplementingin-house HR support, helping the
business grow in employee headcount, ormeeting financial goals and objectives.
A small business joins the PEOrelationship to allow executive
(02:04):
decision makers to focus on corebusiness operations while gaining
expert HR guidance, employer ofchoice, benefits offerings, and
assistance with mitigating employeeemployment related compliance risk.
Owners also look to outsource complexHR functions like payroll, benefits
(02:27):
administration, and employmentrelated compliance management.
Jim (02:32):
Carmen, thank you.
Uh, Dena, I have aquestion for you, if I may.
How does a PEO solve forsmall business challenges?
Dena (02:39):
Small businesses often struggle with the complexity of HR from
compliance with ever-changing employmentand labor laws to handling employee
relations and managing employee.
A PEO simplifies this by actingas a co-employer providing
expertise, infrastructure, andeconomies of scale that a small
business might not have on its own.
Jim (03:00):
So, Dena, uh, we introduced you as an HR business partner
and that you work closely withthe businesses that are on a PEO.
Can you please explain what an HR businesspartner is and what you do typically
to support a small business on a PEO?
Dena (03:15):
An HR business partner, (also known as an HRBP) is a strategic advisor
who helps business owners navigate thecomplexities of HR employment related
compliance and workforce management beyonda traditional HR generalist, an HRBP
works proactively to align a company'sHR strategies with their business goals.
(03:36):
I'm at my best when I'm an extensionof the leadership team providing my
expertise in areas like multi-stateemployment related compliance, employee
relations, leadership coaching.
Compensation, employeebenefits and HR data analytics.
I work with business owners to preventissues before they arise and create
(03:56):
strategies that help support growth.
I'll make you aware ofopportunities and how to navigate
employment related blind spots.
We bring a fresh perspectiveto your business and also offer
strategic insights and best practices.
Many of us, for example, have decadesof experience in human resources, but
each day brings us opportunities toconnect with our clients to help with
(04:20):
their day-to-day needs, but we alsoalign with their long-term goals.
Some clients join us tosupport their growth strategy.
I personally support clients withlocations in many states, and as their
businesses expand, they need to know theirpractices align with local, state, and
federal employment related requirements.
Employee relations and HR consultationsare a big part of my role because
(04:42):
employers want the assurances that they'retaking the appropriate steps to address
things like performance issues or maybe tounderstand how to best support an employee
who needs a disability accommodation.
I also reach out to my clients asemployment related legislation changes,
or even if I see something in thenews or a trade publication that might
(05:03):
apply to their industry or their goals.
Jim (05:06):
Dena, thank you for that background.
You clearly cover a lot of ground.
Uh, can you please share a specificexample of how you have approached,
say, a, a client challenge?
Dena (05:17):
I just helped a business that operates in 16 states ensure compliance with multiple state paid leave laws,
differing PTO accrual payout requirements and
and helped them navigate the concerns of unlimited PTO policies.
They also had a local paid leave ordinance to consider, just to keep things interesting.
Another business owner came to meabout an ADA accommodation request from
(05:41):
an employee with a medical condition.
The employee requested workfrom home as the accommodation.
I guided them through the interactiveprocess by explaining that the ADA
doesn't require automatic approvalof these types of requests, but
does require a good faith effortto find an effective solution.
Through several discussions, wedetermined her essential duties
(06:02):
could be performed remotely withonly a few minor adjustments.
By adding scheduled check-ins andcommunicating clear performance
expectations, the owner was relieved.
We could find a way to structureaccommodations that supported the
employee's wellbeing while maintainingaccountability and productivity.
Jim (06:21):
Dena, just a bit ago, you talked about this business that you were
supporting was operating in 16 states.
That certainly must bringa lot of complexity.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about what that would look
like and how you helped thebusiness navigate that complexity?
Dena (06:36):
Sure.
Imagine being a small business expandinginto multiple states, each with their
own employment laws, employment taxrequirements, and paid leave policies.
With a PEO, a business owner can focuson growth because they know they have a
team of HR experts who can assist withemployment related compliance and provide
best practices to help reduce risk.
(06:58):
For example, attractingand retaining top talent.
Many businesses can't offer Fortune500 health benefits on their own, but a
PEO gives small businesses and theiremployees access to technology benefits
and retirement plans at competitive rates.
I've found that navigating state paidleave laws have been challenging for
employers who have a multi-state presenceand feel uncertain about how the laws
(07:21):
apply to them and their employees.
Business may feel confident inknowing their own state laws,
but as they grow their business.
They find themselves in unfamiliarterritory, quite literally, and
don't know what they don't know yet.
We stay on top of those regulationsso our clients can focus on their
business and their employees.
Jim (07:42):
Dena, thank you for explaining that truly a wealth of expert information.
Can you give us some examples for ourlisteners of how you've guided your
clients on these kind of specific topics?
Dena (07:54):
I've recently coached clients through complicated employee relations
issues like managing return tooffice policies, mandatory employee
assistance referrals, and developingcompetitive paid family leave programs.
I'm currently working with a client whoset an ambitious goal for their business.
They want to achieve a local media'sranking of top places to work.
(08:16):
It is a very ambitious, multi-yeargoal, and they are just getting started.
Our services can help them achieve the employee engagement
they need which is one of the
components they need to achievetheir goal. Its going to take dedication but it’s going to be fun partnering.
Jim (08:31):
Dena, many thanks for all of that information and additional context.
Very, very helpful in explainingwhat the PEO is in your role.
Uh, if I may, Carmen, uh, earlieryou talked about a team of HR
specialists that partner with a PEO.
Can you tell us a bit
more about these experts?
Carmen (08:48):
Yes.
Uh, typically with a PEO you get afull team of HR specialists that cover
everything from payroll to employeebenefit and everything in between.
Our team of specialists include theHR business partner who serves as the
account manager and provides HR guidance,payroll business partner who supports
(09:10):
the client's payroll processing needs.
A risk and safety specialistthat supports workplace safety
and assist with compliance.
A team of benefits servicesspecialists who help with employee
benefits administration andassist with compliance businesses.
Also receive support with employer taxfiling and reporting state unemployment
(09:35):
Claims, compliant employee handbooks and
talent management services.
Jim (09:41):
Carmen, thank you for that information.
Uh, Dena, a quick question for you.
So we haven't touched onthe employees just yet.
You know, of course these businessowners are making decisions that
would impact their employees.
Can you tell me and our listeners abouthow they benefit when their business
owner decides to partner with a PEO?
Dena (10:00):
Employees are thrilled when their employer joins a PEO.
Even if they don't know what a PEOis, they have access to Fortune 500
health benefits and support access towellness programs and more employees
and their families enjoy our moneysaving Perks at Work discount program and
our confidential employee assistanceprogram when they need a little
extra help through difficult times.
(10:21):
Partnering with a PEO, frees the employer of administrativeemployer tasks, to allow them to
focus on business, their business.
Another benefit we shouldn't overlook isthat employers receive a designated risk
and safety specialist who keeps employeessafe with personalized safety programs
designed for the business' work site.
Jim (10:41):
So it sounds like you really see it all as an HR business partner.
Uh, let's switch gears here for amoment and let's talk about success.
How do you define success as an HRBP?
What do you enjoy most about the role?
Dena (10:54):
I see success as an HRBP
come down to making an impact on
both the business and its employees.
I know I'm successful when thebusiness owner sees me, not just as
their HR contact, but as a trustedadvisor that helps them navigate
challenges, make informed decisions,and ultimately grow their business.
Sometimes I'm just their soundingboard as they talk through an employment-related issue. It's rewarding when a business owner truly partners with me.
(11:22):
Not seeing HR as a speed bump inthe road, but as a tool for growth.
When they trust me, I can proactivelyhelp them structure their business,
assist with retaining top talent,and create a great work environment.
At the end of the day, my successis measured by the success
of the companies I support.
Seeing a business grow, watching itsleaders flourish, and knowing that I
(11:44):
played a role in making work better.
I enjoy most is the variety andthe strategic nature of the work.
Each day is different problem solving,relationship building strategy.
Jim (11:58):
Dena, thank you for all that information.
That's excellent context.
Uh, Carmen, if I may please turnto you, uh, as we begin to wrap up.
Uh, we have learned some greatinformation about PEOs today, and, uh,
the question I have is about, um, whatshould a business ask themselves as
they evaluate and consider using a PEO?
(12:18):
Are there certain, for example, industriesor businesses of a certain size that
are better suited for a PEO than others?
Carmen (12:25):
I think this question goes back to the business's infrastructure,
the business strategy and goals.
Businesses considering and evaluatingPEOs have assessed what they need to do
with their business to be competitiveand achieved sustainable success.
They have identified business objectivesand goals and need help to maintain
(12:48):
critical areas of their business, likeHR, payroll, and employee benefits.
They can focus on effectively implementingtheir overall business strategy.
The beauty of a PEO is that thePEO model is well suited for
businesses in most industries.
We have clients who are nonprofits,governmental contractors, to
(13:12):
warehousing and professional services.
Jim (13:15):
Carmen, thank you for that.
Uh, this brings us tothe end of the episode.
Uh, thank you again, Carmenand Dena for joining us.
We have really learned a lot aboutPEOs and in particular about how the
both of you really partner closelywith these business clients to help
them navigate the many employmentrelated challenges they face every day.
Presented by ADP,
(13:37):
HRPreneur focuses on the entrepreneursand business drivers who are shaping the
growth of their companies and positivelyimpacting the lives of their employees.
With each episode, we'll bring theexperts to you, answer your questions,
and help you think beyond today so youcan discover more success tomorrow.
As always, thanks for listening to HRPreneur.
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