Empathy, Leadership and Love with Ash Simpson

Episode 242 is a captivating heart-to-heart discussion with Ash Simpson, the founder of a brand new mortgage company, Insight Finance. Ash, a symbol of perseverance, opens up about his nearly two-decade-long relationship with his wife, their long journey from financial struggles to growth, and an elevated proposal that would make your heart skip a beat. He unpacks his intriguing theory on five-year growth periods for couples, and how adaptability is the glue that binds relationships in the face of change.

We discuss how accountability has played a pivotal role in sculpting Ash into the leader he is today. Ash talks about his real estate journey, the power of mentorship, the essence of intelligent risk-taking, and the importance of striking a life-work balance. We reflect on the vital importance of regularly-scheduled quality family time, his creative approach to automation and delegation, and the non-negotiables that keep him grounded amidst the whirlwind of life.

We discuss the complexities associated with real estate mortgage financing.  Ash shares his principles of sometimes playing opposite the market or trendy or conventional wisdom and his real estate investment strategy,

Ash's story is a testament to the power of empathy, strong leadership skills, and growing a dedicated fan base in whatever business you're in. 

Ash nominates Mohini Singh, Kelowna City Councillor, for a future episode. 

Support the show

NOMINATE YOURSELF, ANOTHER PERSON OR A BUSINESS TO APPEAR ON THE I LOVE KELOWNA PODCAST

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
We are back for episode 242 of the I love
Kelowna podcast.
Today I'm sitting here with AshSimpson and we're going to talk
about leadership and theconnection between the
psychology of sports, realestate and parenting.
Both of us find these topicsvery interesting and I'm really

(00:24):
excited to talk to Ash Simpsontoday.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Kelowna, one of the most beautiful places in the
world to live, surrounded byprovincial parks, pine forests,
vineyards, orchards andmountains.
Wouldn't it be great if therewas a podcast about our love of
Kelowna?
Oh no, it's real.
This is I Love Kelowna aninterview style podcast about

(00:54):
the fabulous and fascinatingpeople that make up our great
city and the Okanagan.
Intimate conversations withentrepreneurs, executives,
thought leaders, creatives andanyone who has an interesting
story to tell about how they'recontributing to our wonderful
home.
This is I Love Kelowna.
And here's your host, luke JMinkus.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
So, ash, thank you for coming by today.
I really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Thanks for having me on the show.
I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
You told me when we met last week about when you
came to Kelowna and theinteresting story about how
you've been with your wifeforever and then you just
recently got married.
So could you tell me a littlebit about that?

Speaker 3 (01:40):
So actually we did that.
Yeah, I'm going to correct you,it's fine.
It's fine.
It's actually a little knownfact.
So I actually haven't, weactually haven't been married,
but it's kind of an interestingthing.
So when we first met, we firstmet in Vernon and she was 17
years old, I was 19 years oldand we just it was incredible

(02:05):
Within six months we were livingtogether and then we just
started building a life togetherReally interesting, made a lot
of mistakes that I think youknow what young people do, and
we racked up a lot of studentloan debt and we racked up a lot
of debt.
We ended up in a situation thatI think I'm fair to share, it's

(02:25):
fine to share.
I think we're almost like180,000 down.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so imagine holding that on through
all your 20s and you were inyour 20s.
Yeah, so I think we had managedto do that by the time we were
21.
It was like almost a race tomake life hard, and so we made a
lot of bad decisions, but wejust stuck with each other and
it was just an incrediblejourney, and so I can say that

(02:51):
year seven we got engaged and itphenomenal place, and then we
went up a gondola.
Another little note thing is I'mextremely scared of heights.
So going up a gondola and I'vegot a ring in my pocket and I'm
just freaking out Like there'sno saving me at this point, I
don't know what I'm more scaredof what I'm about to say and

(03:13):
what I'm about to do, or thisgondola ride and like having a
glass bottom at the time.
Oh jeez, it was a lot.
So fine, we can fast forwardand a lot of life and a lot of
learning and a child and a housetogether and paying off all the
debt and kind of going throughall that process it was.

(03:34):
It was an interesting journey.
I definitely wouldn't say wetook the easiest road we
possibly could have.
We stuck by each other andstuck with each other and very
little fights and just kind oflike, almost like in a survival
aspect.
So it's, it probably felt notunlike what it feels like to a
lot of people today during thattime, and so it's, we just got

(04:00):
to experience it a little bitearlier in life.
So from that, yeah, so we'vebeen together I think 18, almost
19 years.
Yeah, it's amazing that she'sput up with me this long and all
of my antics.
So it's, it's very appreciative.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
So right, I have three teenage daughters and one
one of them says they're datingsomeone.
I get nervous because, you know, you see a lot of people break
up and they don't make it, andone of the causes seems to be
like they've changed so muchover time.
They didn't really know whothey were or their partner was
when they started dating, andthat's why people break up and

(04:38):
you guys made it, and that'spretty, pretty extraordinary,
like we don't hear too manystories of that people getting
together very young and lastingthat long.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, yeah.
So I have a, I have a theoryand this kind of only maybe only
relates to just me, maybe, butI feel like we've both kind of
changed almost every five years.
So definitely there's a I wouldsay my growth periods and how
I've evolved over time.
There's definitely like anadjustment that you almost have
to make with each other andthese these times that you do

(05:11):
that it's you're almost kind oflike rediscovering someone.
So every time she's kind oflike changed through the nature
of what she's done and she'sextremely successful doing what
she's doing.
She's currently a teacher andlike.
For me, I feel like I'm on thatgrowth pattern and like my level
of success.
Maybe I hold myself a littlebit or maybe I judge a little
bit too hard, but I feel likeI've accomplished quite a bit

(05:32):
for what I've done so far.
So it's it's, it's apartnership, it's a journey and
you really just have to.
I think that every five yearsit's almost like a.
It's not your reconnecting, butyou just have to adapt to the
new situation.
So, yeah, it's, it's super cool, honestly.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
I don't think you've finished the story about the
gondola.
So you got.
You got to the top, yousurvived.
Obviously you survived it.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
Yeah, so kind of.
So I survived it, sure, and Iget to the top and I had this
entire speech, sorry.
So so I have this entire speech, we get to the top, and I am
now being on nervous, becausenow I'm equally scared of how am
I going to get down, because Iam it's late in the evening and
I'm totally willing to walk down.
I'm like at this point I'm like, roll me over the edge, it's

(06:20):
fine.
No, and I get to the top.
I get to this one section andit's perfect.
We're overlooking glaciers andI dropped my knee and then
bumble out words right,everything I had planned
completely went out the window.
Right, I was just was beyond awreck.
So it was.
She understood what I was doing.

(06:40):
Everyone else around usunderstood everything.
Yeah, it was.
It was a crazy moment.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Right, but she survived it.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
Oh yeah, I'm here so.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
And how was the trip back down?

Speaker 3 (06:55):
So I think one of relief.
So it's as that ground keepscoming closer and closer, and
the fact that I accomplished themission.
At that point I was like, okay,fantastic, like we just need to
like touch soil and then, afterwe touch soil, everything from
there is going to be absolutelyincredible.
That's that's basically whathuge relief.
Oh, huge relief.

(07:16):
And she said yes, so you'reright.
It's lucky.
And then, yeah, I guess, overtime we just we never got
married.
We we just kind of made thatdecision of like the title
necessarily doesn't matter,we're in this right.
So we just, I think at somepoint we might do it and we
might just have like a hugeparty and just invite everybody,
but I, I don't know, I can'ttell you, I can't tell you that

(07:38):
there's anything in me, or or ifthe moment she's like, okay,
let's, let's do this now,fantastic, I would, I would go
for it.
Well, it's a wonderful story.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
So you met it in Burntman.
Is that where you're from?

Speaker 3 (07:51):
So no, so originally I was born in Vancouver BC
Children's Hospital in Burnabyand then most of my family
actually lived kind of within ablock radius of like Main Street
.
So I grew up East 55th and MainI.
We kind of moved all over theplace so I ended up in Creston

(08:12):
at one time I ended up in SalmonArm.
I've lived in Surrey for abrief period of time.
I've lived in Canoes for abrief period of time, and so I
think like I went to high schoolin Salmon Arm and I graduated
in Salmon Arm at SAS and thenended up in Vernon and then,
with Vernon being Chantelmet,and I was actually a waiter at

(08:36):
Pizza Hut at the time and shewas a newly hired waitress, so
that's, that's how that I wassupposed to train her,
apparently.
I did too good of a job.
And then, yeah, and then wemoved from there to Kelowna, so
in 2007, and it was purely sothat she could go to school.
She knew that she wanted to bea teacher and I knew that I just

(09:01):
didn't want to go to school.
Right, so I was.
It made it, it made for an easydecision, and so I went and I
worked, and I worked a couple ofsales jobs and did that, and
she worked as a bartender andyeah.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Right, so that was 2007.
That's like, yeah, shegraduated, but you never left.
You never left the city.
You both liked it.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Absolutely.
So I would say like maybe wemoved a little bit earlier in
2007, but I would say that wemoved during, actually, I think,
2009.
We actually left and went, andthat was during a recession.
It was the housing crisis,essentially we had and that's
the last one, and so how we wereaffected is rent started being

(09:43):
sky high because 2007, 2008, notunlike right now.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Right.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
Move the rents to such a degree that it was just
almost unaffordable for us.
And so we actually moved inwith her mom and so it was that
here no.
That was actually in Vernon.
So we did that for a year andthen we decided you know what we
need to move back.
Staying with her mom wasactually incredible.
It was.
It was a fun time for me too.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
Right, yeah, yeah, it's nice to have meals, yeah
Right.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
That was.
That was a huge benefit.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah, I would have stayed forever, to be perfectly
honest, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,it's a home cook meals and
cheaper rent.
Yeah, I mean that you know,when people are facing financial
anxiety, to have a mom to cookfor you, it's like it's
incredible.
Oh, it takes a lot of stress.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
What?
What a massive advantage.
So, so that that helped us somuch.
And then we moved back.
I I ended up working at visionsfor a very short few electronics
, yeah, yeah.
So I've worked future shop,visions, all sorts of different
places, and so I'm working thereand I just I don't know it's I

(10:52):
was starting a management roadthere and just thinking, you
know what, I kind of want to dosomething more, but I want to
take some skills and learn them.
And so what happened is I, Ijust decided, you know what, I'm
going to take an interview andfigured out that instead of with
the person I interviewed with,instead of actually being the

(11:13):
employee, I was like you knowwhat, what can I just be the
boss, right, and so, and so itwas kind of almost an arrogant
play, I think at the time.
And I, just I was like you knowwhat?
I think I can do this.
And so I went out and I createda business it was called sell
works and we did cell phonerepair and we it was a very

(11:34):
exciting time, very challenging.
I would say that the firstthree years I didn't make any
money doing it.
In fact, I feel like I gaveaway a lot of money, right.
My, my employees wereabsolutely incredible.
Everybody was more than morethan in it.

(11:54):
I had kind of two businesspartners through the process and
even as such it was, it wassuch a learning experience that
it allowed me to have a almost agroundwork from which to build
from, because I learned a lot ofmistakes, right, but not

(12:14):
necessarily what not to do, butmaybe what I should learn more
of.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Right.
So what sort of things were youlearning?
Was it how to deal with people,how to hire people and fire
people, finances, dealing withthe math of the business, like
what?
What sorts of things?

Speaker 3 (12:32):
So I think I think the understanding principles of
because business is so vague,when you say like hey, like I do
, I'm in business or I'm anentrepreneur, okay, right, what
does that even mean?
There are.
There are many different waysto accentuate and kind of
understand what those thingskind of become.
And so for me, I think Istarted understanding that the

(12:53):
leadership component of it wassomething I was really good at.
So I started understanding thatI can actually motivate
employees and do it in such away that it would be I'd almost
be a relatable figure to them.
I'm not saying I'm likenecessarily like the best friend
, but I would say that we wouldkind of go through this journey
together and then we would finda common goal, or I'd find a

(13:15):
common goal that we can kind ofplay off of, and then that
allows for a purpose.
And if somebody has a purpose,it's just it's, it's so nice.
If we're all fighting for thesame thing, for the, for the
hopefully the same result, thenwe're all taking the same wins
and we're all taking the samelosses.
I learned very early thataccountability is a massive key

(13:36):
to leadership, and it's becauseI made so many mistakes in
accountability that it allowedme to understand that you know
what this is.
Sometimes the wins need to besomeone else's wins and, like
the losses always have to bemine, and so it was
understanding that process andunderstanding like what I could

(13:59):
provide in that instance reallyto help someone feel safe, like
they were going to be taken careof.
It was.
It was an absolutely massivelesson.
Yeah, definitely through thattime.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
When I think back on all the people I've worked for
and the ones who were willing totake accountability, then that
was an excellent time and that Icould talk to.
They would hold me accountable,but they would also be willing
to teach me and answer questionsand set a good example
themselves, like I've worked forpeople who just didn't want to
work, like they were lazy, andthen they would be upset if I

(14:33):
didn't do what I was supposed todo.
Right, and so that to me I cantotally relate to that.
Like when I think, like mycurrent situation, actually the
person who runs the company thatI work for is a great guy.
He works hard and he doesn'tbrag about stuff that he's gonna
do and never does.
He takes accountability andit's a very respectful you know

(14:58):
situation.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
And what you just touched on too is something
where this also kind of getslost in the business eco-spirits
.
Like you can go to school, youcan have a lot of great ideas,
you can attempt to implementthem, but unless you kind of go
all in and actually go throughthe execution stage of it.
Like I mentor a lot of likeyoung business professionals
that are kind of coming up inthe world, and then these

(15:20):
business professionals the coolthing with it is they're all at
kind of different stages ofwhere they are.
And so some are extremelysuccessful.
Some are figuring outdistribution, some are going
through like their, throughtheir lens, their problems.
But I look at it and I go youknow what you know.
This is kind of first worldproblems here.
Like you're still makingmargins here.

(15:42):
Or then you have anotherindividual who, like, is
struggling to find clients buthas, like, the perfect product,
and so it's, how do you marketthat product out?
And in this case it's a service.
And so it's one of thoseinteresting components of you
watch both parties, even thoughthere are different stages of

(16:05):
the career, go through the samelevel of self-doubt, and you,
you watch them.
And one of the things thatmakes the difference 100% is the
execution.
So coming up with a milliondifferent ideas, that's great.
But if you can actually executeon one of those ideas and kind
of take it to the very end,amazing Right.
Yeah, whether it fails or likewins or whatever, it doesn't
matter.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Right.
What's it?
2017 or 2018, when you firststarted to get into mortgages
and the real estate business, orhow did that come about?

Speaker 3 (16:35):
Oh, I've been so very lucky.
Um, this is so yeah, so,essentially in, I think, 2017, I
was kind of debating it, but Ihad a good mentor, and so this
mentor actually was my mortgagebroker, and she wasn't a mentor
then, but what she did was wewould sit in an office, me and

(16:56):
my wife, and we would be so faraway from purchasing a place,
right, instead of just beinglike, okay, get out, she was
like okay, no, no, sit down,let's, let's go over it, let's
run credits, let's figure thisout, figure this out.
This is how we would game itand this is how we would do it.
And I'm like, okay, fantastic.
So we walked away with astrategy and a plan.
Now, at the time, I would saythat I was almost dejected.

(17:19):
Like, at that point, I was like, oh, like I don't think we're
ever going to do this, but mywife being my wife was like oh
yeah, like this is, we're goingto make this happen.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Right.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
And so I you know what, just leaving it in her
hands was more than enough forthe both of us on that one, and
I was like, oh, so thankful.
And so I understand like,especially when I talk to, like
current clients and first timehome buyers, oh, I know that
feeling all too well.
And so the I want to say, overthe course of almost six years,
every time she would stay incontact and she did a great job

(17:49):
of staying in contact and wewould reach out to her and be
like okay, what's our situationlike now?
She was just like you know what, maybe you should try this.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Right, I was like oh, like, what sort of things like?

Speaker 3 (18:01):
like, like, like I don't know what, I don't know
what she picked up on, but Ithink she liked the way maybe I
talk or I don't know what she,what she was like try this, try
the try the mortgage brokerbusiness.
And so I was like you know what, like I don't know, and at
first I was like no, there's noway.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Right.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
You know what that's?
That real estate game, that'sfor other people, that's not me.
And then I just just over time,it's almost like I was working
corporate, a corporate job, andI just it just didn't give me
the satisfaction.
And I, my son was uh.
So my son is nine now, and soafter he was born, I knew that I

(18:39):
wanted to spend more time withhim, and so I was like, well,
like me being away from likenine to five, and then I have to
prepare an hour in advance inboth sides, and so like I would
see him a little bit in themorning a little bit at night,
but really like his bedtimewould be seven.
So I'd be like, well, this isnot much of a life.
So I came to the conclusion oflike, okay, I need to change

(19:00):
something here and take a risk.
So my lovely wife said, sure,let's, let's do it, you can, you
can go ahead and try.
And so I did and I puteverything I possibly could into
it so that, uh, I passed mycourse January of 2019.
So I would be year five in andI've been lucky enough to be in

(19:28):
different magazines, speak forCBC.
I've been, uh, I've gone oncompany trips to Hawaii, which
was an incredible trip.
I'm like, I think, I think, theyear that I went to Hawaii, I
must have, uh, I must have costthe company more than they made
off me.
I almost promised it.

(19:49):
It's actually, it's actuallyhilarious to me.
So, so like, and that's justhow much, uh, that company uh,
100% valued its people.
So huge, uh, huge props, uh totango on that one.
So, yeah, no, I uh, I wentthrough a period where I uh,
just, there's definitely aperiod where I was learning and

(20:10):
I and I kept that same mentorthroughout the process, and then
I changed, uh, I almost kind ofchanged up my thinking and my
Furbiage and just went all in.
I learned as much as I could ina very short period of time,
and I think there was.
You know, originally I did itfor extra time with my son, but

(20:33):
I found that the more I put in,the more I was going to get out.
And so if I led with empathywith clients, if I um led with
more of a transparent uh,completely upfront approach,
with realtors if I and realtorpartners and and referral

(20:54):
partners and those individuals,and then if I just led from a
point of um, almost kindness,and showing that and and and
keeping, and almost trying tofind value for somebody else and
trying to provide that for them, and I, it, it's, it's worked
wonders for me.
It's helped me in space that Ican't even describe.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
So I can uh think of a few things from your mentor
that I think are reallyimportant If someone's going to
choose any sort of career.
One was um, she was veryempathetic with you and patient
with you.
I know some professionals insales or real estate or
mortgages can be like I reallydon't have time to deal with you
because you're not qualified tomake this purchase.

(21:36):
Rather than educating theclient, she's very patient with
you and uh, apparently taughtyou a lot.
So I'm sure that influencedyour, your career, like you
emulated that.
And the other thing was um, youmentioned once you decided to
do it, you poured all yourenergy into it, and that is huge

(21:57):
.
Like, if you want to be good atsomething, you really got to
commit to it.
You have to get into it andenjoy the learning and the
process and learning everythingyou can.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Right, yeah, the the roller coaster of those first
two years.
I would say, uh, it was just aroller coaster of emotions.
It had nothing to do with, um,like a success meter at all of
any kind.
It was just, I constantly feltlike I was failing most of the
time.
But then I had these guidingprinciples that I wanted to

(22:27):
stand by the entire time, and soI knew that, if I was going to
find my path and carve out myniche in this, that I was going
to do it my way Right, and Iwasn't going to, uh, look at how
everyone else was accomplishingsuccess.
I was going to look at how Icould make that and how I could
do it without, um, giving up anypiece of me.

(22:48):
I didn't.
I didn't want to.
I didn't want to pretend to beanything else.
I wanted to just be methroughout the entire process
and it's.
It was one of those thingswhere, uh, I think a lot of soul
searching.
I think I felt in the beginninglike it held me back, but more
so, it probably helped me morethan anything.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
So I think being your authentic self is is so hard
and to guide your principle by,but once you do it, you make a
vast decision to allow forsuccess to happen.
With the right people, theright clients, the right
referral partners, Everythingcomes together.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Right?
Well, I'd like to ask you alittle bit about that.
We touched on it a couple ofweeks ago, uh, when we met and,
um, I, I can say to anyonelistening like this is obviously
a great formula for success,because after spending about an
hour with you, I decided this isthe person I want to go to If I

(23:43):
need advice on a mortgagesituation or have a client that
needs a mortgage.
Um, I, I concluded that and Ihave my reasons, but I'd like to
explore that a little bit.
About um, what are some of thethings that you, as you were
learning, you decided to dodifferently than the norm, or

(24:03):
that?
I don't think you're really evencomparing yourself to other
people.
At a certain point, they werekind of like this is me, I want
to enhance my good qualities.
No-transcript business person Iwant to be.
I want to talk a little bitabout that.
So one of the things she toldme that was amazing was your
schedule and how you reworkedthat so you could get a lot of

(24:26):
time with your son quality timewith your son.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
I have okay.
So schedule-wise I think I'vetried a lot of different things,
so I've had 15 minute blocksthat I had to do at one time.
Somehow I ended up in a statewhere I was running like five
different startup companies atone time.
I had a marketing company at onetime that was actually decently
successful.
That in January of this year.

(24:51):
I was like you know what?
I need to go all in on thismortgage thing and we'll talk
about the insight mortgage laterbut that piece of scheduling
has been such a struggle andsuch a difficult thing because
you, if you put yourself in alot of different situations,
running those levers and tryingto figure out where your time

(25:12):
comes in, one of the easiestthings to sacrifice and this
sounds absolutely awful but itseems like it's always family-
and so that family lever Ialways have to watch constantly
because that's the one that italmost instantly gets taken away
from.
So, in doing so, how I schedulethings now is I try to automate

(25:32):
as much of my process aspossible.
Or, like I have an incredibleunderwriter now who's like I had
one before.
That was good, absolutely great, and she was starting and
making it through the businessand like within a short period
of time she became extremelygood.
But the one that I have rightnow has like over 25 years,

(25:54):
almost 30 years of experience,and she's worked for lenders.
And so she sees things through adifferent lens than even I do,
or the client can, which allowsfor so much time to be freed.
So, yes, it's one of thosethings where you maybe pay
handsomely for these things, butit's worth it because of what

(26:16):
it gives you and what it givesback, it gives back to the
client, it gives back to thereferral partners, it gives back
to my family.
So freeing up that time isabsolutely massive.
So when you have two peopleworking in a file versus just
one, it just oh, it's so mucheasier and you can throw ideas
at and you get there so muchfaster.
I think the answer that what Iwas referring to when we spoke

(26:39):
for coffee and for the record,it wasn't an hour, that was like
almost two and a half hours.
That's true.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, yeah, an hour, when it was just the two of us,
I think.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
So the first time in the minutes.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
We had another person .

Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not calling you out, I'm just saying
I was like that was a longmeeting, no, and I enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
But I think the last hour was where I was asking more
personal, direct questions.
We were kind of just talkingabout real estate in general and
touching on parts of your life,but I felt like our deeper
conversation was the last hour.
But yeah, it was like two and ahalf hours.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and so kind of how I do
things now and it seems insane,but I just I have a short
calendar and I try to onlycreate like one or two
appointments in a day, max, andthose are just usually referral
partners of that sort of thing.
All of my clients I talk toimmediately, and so I have this

(27:38):
saying where I try not to lose aday, and so if I schedule an
appointment with my client orsomebody that comes in and it's
like two or three days inadvance, well then it just
becomes a nightmare, you'relosing days and when you lose
days and something's live or forthe other individual, you're
just creating friction pointsthat you don't need to.
So just picking up the phone andnot being afraid to just call

(27:59):
and kind of get things doneright away, that's huge and
that's usually helpful and it'shelpful for them, it's helpful
for me and it kind of allows usto go through.
When I'm scheduling time, I tryto make sure that every day I'm
picking up my son.
So what I do is I have someblocks that are completely laid
out.
So, for instance, the morning Iwake up pretty early, roughly

(28:23):
435 in the morning.
I don't necessarily advise it,but I do it, and my son also
wakes up roughly around the sametime.
So we just sit and giggle andwatch cartoons and it's
absolutely incredible.
We'll watch Minecraft videos.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
I've seen more Minecraft videos and I think I
can even Are those the dudesthat play it and they're
commenting with their streaming?

Speaker 3 (28:46):
Yeah, 100%, and so that's on YouTube and he just
loves it, and we just sit thereand we laugh and giggle at these
things, because it's all thesemade up stories that kind of
come up from it, so it's fun.
And then my son gets off schoolat 2.30.
And so it's always been anon-negotiable for me and then I
am the one who picks them up,and so at 2.30, I'm there.

(29:07):
Then what happens is we just gothrough our walk home, and
through the walk home we justgiggle and have fun, we make up
jokes.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
And.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
I would say that in the beginning, when he was like
5 or 6, these weren't verysufficient and he was
sophisticated.
Right Now, this man is muchfunnier than I am, so he's had a
lot of years of practice.
I apparently need to up my game.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yeah, so yeah, that's really wonderful.
I find if I get up early, myday is so much more productive
Because there's important thingsthat we don't really feel are
urgent things.
Like you said, family Well, Ican see them tomorrow.
I'm really busy today.
I'll talk to them tomorrow, andthen tomorrow becomes the next
day, and so on and so on.

(29:50):
But early the phone's notringing, nobody's looking for me
.
I can do what's importantduring those hours without
distraction.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
And I think you have to choose what's important.
So for me, I just chose him andmy wife as being the most
important things in that momentand that's the time I can give
to them.
In my wife's case, in themorning it's letting her sleep.
That's probably the best thingI can give to her at that moment
, but usually after he's in bed,so like 7.30, 8.00, or whatever

(30:23):
, and that's our time, like wecan hang out, and so we don't do
enough dates.
I'm probably definitely likethere's a lot that I can do
better, for sure in this, and soit's one of those things where
I need to be better.
But in the current moment, yeah, it's a system that currently
works.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
That's awesome.
So tell us about yourphilosophy when it comes to
mortgages and why you do thethings the way you do.
So you mentioned you'll callpeople right away if there's a
new client.
You want to figure out thesituation and just be honest
about their situation and havethat conversation immediately.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
So I think it kind of comes down to almost a better
story about how I started andhow I started to learn that I
need to kind of do things my way.
So when I first started as amortgage broker, I studied
everybody else.
There were podcasts I could goon to, there were other people I
would take out for coffee,other brokers, and I thought I

(31:23):
was learning and I was like, ok,great, and I was getting
everything from within the lens.
But one of the things frombeing an entrepreneur and
basically having success andfailures in business is I knew
that the lens I needed was myclients and, from the referral
side of things, where am I goingto get my clients from?

(31:43):
And so I learned very early onthat I needed to look outside
the bubble and look in ratherthan just be in the bubble and
be like, oh, things are fine, Ikept getting this.
So I'm in my office and I keptgetting this pamphlet from this
realtor and I was like, ok, noproblem, I get it once.

(32:07):
And I'm in the office everysingle day and because I'm
taking everything superseriously and working my 10-hour
days, and I get this pamphletagain like a week later, and I
get it again a week later and Ialmost had this arrogant text
that I sent and I remember it sowell, where I was like, hey
well, you keep sending mepamphlets, so we might as well
meet.
I bet you she still has that.

(32:29):
I bet she still has that text.
One day this is going to getused against me, so I might as
well just come out with it.
And so yeah, so we ended upgoing for coffee and I didn't do
my due diligence and I didn'tdo research on her.
I just assumed that who I wasgoing to meet was somebody who

(32:50):
was newer.
I didn't know what I was goingto come up against.
And so I met with thisindividual and it was the first
time.
I think within the first twominutes, this person mentioned
that they had two assistants andI was like, oh no, what have I
done?
And so I'm like, oh.
So I came in here with ego andpride and arrogance, and I came

(33:13):
in here with everything Ishouldn't have, and I remember
her asking me, and the exactwords were basically hey,
obviously this isn't a Tinderdate, so why am I here?

Speaker 1 (33:27):
She said that to you.
That's what she was very direct.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
So I was like, oh no.
And so I end up in thesituation where I'm like OK,
think, think, think.
I was like Winnie the Pooh,think Ash, think Ash.
And so we came to in an instant.
I came to this one conclusion.
I was like OK.
I was like OK, well, obviouslyI brought you here, so I just
wanted to know, what is it youdislike about mortgage brokers?

Speaker 1 (33:54):
And then and it's a great question.
Oh, that's an incrediblequestion.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
It got me out of it immediately, and so I was like,
oh, thank you.
And so what happened is thatblossomed a relationship that I
didn't expect to happen, and sheexplained, over the course of
probably a good half hour thisis how I would do things, this
is whatever.
And the moment I dropped theego and the arrogance and I

(34:18):
started acting more like myauthentic self, like more of the
curious wanderer, less of theperson who's trying to assert
dominance of any kind or be theexpert all the time.
Yeah, I would be the mostunlikely expert.
It would have taken 10 secondsto suss me out at that time.
So I had no business pretendinglike I knew anything.

(34:38):
And so she was so kind andgracious and allowed, just, gave
me like little tits, bits andeverything.
And so we part ways and Iremember I went into my truck at
the time and I furiously wrotedown everything she said.
And then I started taking thatexact same thing and I would
take other realtors out and thefirst question I would ask them

(35:00):
what do you hate about brokers?
And then they would talk for anhour straight.
And I'd be like, wow, there's alot of things you don't like,
and so it was actually superinteresting.
So it allowed me to kind ofreverse engineer my path and I
started going OK, well, I liketo be a guy who provides value

(35:21):
and I understand that this is avery serious game, especially
when you're like we haveliabilities, we're under
professional liability, like wehave to make sure that we do
things right, so we can'tnecessarily do things through
the bare minimum.
And so what I decided was Iwasn't going to do that and I

(35:42):
just wrote everything down.
I almost put it all togetherand I still have the note pad
that I put it all together inand it was great.
It allowed me to make decisionswith better clarity, looking
from the outside in than anyother time.
So that, right there, probablychanged the direction of my

(36:02):
career in an instant.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
That's amazing.
Yeah, I love that story and youstill work together to this day
.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
To this day, absolutely, and it's a dream.
We've had plenty of clientsthat have come to both of us
being like how are you to nothaving your own businesses
together or whatever?
They can't understand thatwe're actually two separate
human beings.
It feels like a team, and sothat team environment is
something that I've had withother realtors as well and since

(36:29):
then, and it's really like it'skind of where the magic is,
when you can look into it andyou can bring the client in
behind the scenes and you cantake the realtor in with you and
you have the mortgage brokerand you have the lawyer and you
have the appraiser and everybodykind of involved, and everybody
understands that we all havethe same goal and so if we can

(36:51):
see it like it's a team game, oh, it changes.
It changes the dynamicimmediately Now for that client
and for that realtor and foreverybody.
It's like we're all together.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
That communication is so crucial and I can't remember
many times going into meetingslike that.
I'm like they're going to thinkI'm stupid, so I've got to
pretend that I'm moreknowledgeable than I necessarily
am, and I really started toprogress when I just started to
ask questions.
Like you said, the curiouswanderer right.
So I want to ask you the samequestion what is it that you

(37:23):
hate about real estate agents?
And maybe that's not the wayyou would phrase it today no, no
and that's not, but that's agood question.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
So, truly, truly and this is something that drives me
absolutely nuts, and anybodythat does this needs to take
this to heart.
I can smell, not smell, but Ican hear realtor voice in a
second, so your clients can too.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
Everybody can Like Ronnie Salesman, like just yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
If it just sounds like this is like a new voice
that you use just for this topic, just to sound professional or
just to sound, whatever I get itand I understand why.
But, you know, having thatlittle bit of relatability.
Everyone's human, we all makemistakes, we all have flaws.
I just, if my clients can bevulnerable with me, why can't I

(38:14):
be vulnerable with themAbsolutely?
So I'm asking them to give uptheir financials, like one of
the most personal pieces oftheir lives, and normally they
keep these secret from everyone.
They don't want their parents tosee it.
They don't want their neighborsto see it, their best friends
to see it, but I get to see it.
So if they're vulnerable, Ishould be as well.

(38:37):
If, from a realtor standpoint,I think it's the same subject
and a lot of people do this welland I just I think maybe it's a
small subsection, but yeah,it's an interesting thing.
And you know what, if I getflamed or roasted for it?
Whatever, I'll die by it, noproblem.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, so you like I think you told me you kind of
limit, like you're not trying todeal with every single real
estate agent in the Okanagan.
You have a core that you loveto work with and it's really
efficient because you understandeach other and they're ethical
people and they're really greatto work with.

(39:15):
Like the person you justdescribed.
So just to expand on that lastquestion, a little bit like what
is it that you find attractivein a real estate agent and what
is it that you find annoying andthat you're like maybe this
person's not gonna be a good fitfor me as a mortgage broker.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
It really honestly comes down to the vulnerability,
the ego, the pride,understanding that if we drop
that component of it and worktogether, it creates a better
experience for everyone aroundus, and treating it truly like a
team and understanding whatthat even means.

(39:57):
It's for some it's tough, and Iget that, and life sends us in
many different directions and weget to experience many
different things, and so, frommy lens it's, I would way rather
work with somebody again andagain, and again, if I know that
that experience is gonna be anA plus experience and, even if

(40:18):
something feels like it'sfalling apart just a little bit,
that we can work together tofigure it out.
I have such good relationshipswith some realtors that will
literally be like hey, ash, thiswhole thing collapsed, but then
I solved it last second, justso you know, I just wanted you
to know that this was thesituation and I'm like, oh, wow,
okay great.
Like you didn't even have totell me I never would have known

(40:38):
, but it's good to know that youhave a pulse on it.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
This is what's happened.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
And I almost feel guilty that I didn't even know.
So it's those things.
There's plenty of times when,like I've been in a situation
where there's maybe somethinggoing on that just doesn't sit
quite right with the listing orwith whatever.
And then like brought in likethe realtor with a, with another
lawyer, and we've kind of justall kind of disgusted together

(41:06):
and been like okay, like how dowe advise the client?
How do we, how do we actuallydo this in such a way that we
are helping and not hindering?
And so it's about reallytreating it like it's a teamwork
environment and so yeah, andthis is this is one of those
things where it's like you'renot gonna get along with

(41:26):
everybody.
It just naturally isn't gonnahappen, and so I'd like to think
I'm likable, but it's.
There's plenty of people outthere, I'm sure, that are like
ooh, like Ash, I wouldn't usehim.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
Well, it's different styles too right.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
It's personality types and yeah, if you want the
super professional mortgagebroker, that is just gonna just
get it done and doesn't wannajoke around.
I'm probably not your guy.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Right.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
I'd rather understand that.
Yes, there is a very seriouslike notion to what we do, but
it doesn't have to be stressful.
It can be fun.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
Like it's amazing when it is fun, and so it's just
that category of it really.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Well, buying a home is one of the most stressful
things people go through, so oneof the most exciting things
people do, especially if it goeswell and smoothly.
And people have a lot ofanxiety around it, which is
completely understandable.
Sometimes I forget that, like,if you do a ton of deals and
people are the same as we are,they don't wanna come across as

(42:31):
unknowledgeable or stupid, sothey kind of will sugarcoat
things and they're maybesuffering from a ton of anxiety.
And what are some of the thingslike we could tell the public
that, like you've learned I'velearned that they don't really
understand about the real estateprocess and what an agent does

(42:51):
and what a mortgage broker doesand what the bank does.
And what are some of the thingsyou've learned?
Like people are like oh, Inever knew that before.
Like in your first conversationwith that agent, you were
taking notes as soon as you gotto your truck and you learned so
much by asking questions Likewhat are some of the things that
would surprise a lot of peopleif they knew?

Speaker 3 (43:15):
Well, there's a lot of technical things that are
maybe like gray areas that a lotof people don't understand.
So, for instance, let's say youhave a commitment that you get
sent from the bank, you'vesigned the commitment,
everything looks like it's allgood.
There's, like there's plenty ofrealtors that I've had to
educate and plenty ofindividuals I've had to educate.
That whole commitment that'sthere is a commitment, but that

(43:39):
lender can actually pull out.
So at the 11th hour they canrun your credit, find out oh,
you just bought two trucks.
Okay, well, there's no longerfits.
So it seems like a basic, butit actually.
It actually happened to me.
So, 100%.
I had a client who, luckily,was a very wealthy individual
and was able to pull this off,but he literally bought a truck

(44:01):
the day after we signed.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
You got the approval.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
Yeah, like literally the day after, and I was like
what are you, what are you doing?
And he went and he actuallydrove to my house to show me the
truck that he purchased and Iwas like what are you thinking?

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yeah, so we can change.
Even if you get like a finalapproval, it's still subject to
you behaving until you get tothe completion.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
Yeah, you actually want to behave all the way up to
30 days after I would say, yeah, oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
What could happen if you bought a truck you couldn't
really afford like a week after?

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Yes, so it's.
I've never seen it before, butthere was a horror story read
that happened in the East wherea lender actually pulled out
after the signing because thewhole loan process changed
essentially, and so I don't knowif that would actually I don't

(44:59):
know if I'd actually ever seethat occur, but that's just.
It's just an interesting thingthat I now tell people just you
know what For that first, likeuntil you sign up the lawyers,
and maybe just wait 30 daysafter that.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
Let all the money clear, let everybody just intake
everything, just give it timeand then from there, like then
make your decision.
So like that's a good one.
I think another one that'swould shock a lot of individuals
is that when you take a homeequity line of credit, those
aren't, those aren't like it'sthe equivalent of a mortgage as

(45:32):
it's a charge on title, but thatcharge on title could get
called at any time and mostindividuals do not know that.
It's an interesting thing.
So if you got $150,000 on a lotof credit like it's, I'm not
saying it would happen, butthere are stories where it does.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Yeah, and rates can change oh.
Right, you might qualify lastyear, but now they're like this
is too expensive for you.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
Looking at almost the change in the last couple of
years, luke, like it's amazing.
I think there was definitely anexpectation that rates wouldn't
stay the same, but I don'tthink I've had to go on CBC
radio a couple of times for this.
The expectation versus thereality of what happened were

(46:21):
two totally different things.
And then, yeah so not to gettechnical, but at that time
there was a gentleman who'sstill the head of the bank of
Canada, tiff Macklam, during, Ithink, 2021, basically said hey,
don't worry, we won't evenoperates by a percentage, like,
don't worry, you're good.
Rates are gonna stay this lowfor a long time.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
So they took a variable mortgage, is that?

Speaker 3 (46:47):
No, no, no.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Tiff is the head of the bank of Canada.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
So no.
So what happened is?
Tiff said, okay, rates aregonna stay the same.
And he's, him and his board arein charge of the bank of Canada
overnight rate.
And so what happened is thatrate just started jumping and
jumping, and jumping.
So it's like if from agovernment standpoint, if you
tell the public one thing, thenit makes them feel safe.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
And then suddenly, when that whole, thing changes.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
Well then, what did that do?
That created a lot of turmoil.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
Created a lot of animosity.
A lot of people are on the edge.
A lot of investors have to getrid of their homes.
It up to rent.
It did Like the.
What that change in interestrate did to our society is
absolutely incredible.
It basically created anaffordability crisis and with
housing not dropping, onlystaying stable, it still makes

(47:40):
it so interesting Like it'sactually.
It's a very hard road if you'rea first time home buyer today.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Do you think it was people's expectations that were
dashed that really like what?
Do you think the reason is thatthey said this?
Is that their inability topredict the future, or was it a
political thing?
They were kind of sugarcoatingthe inflationary situation so
that Trudeau could get reelected, or what?

(48:08):
How did that happen?

Speaker 3 (48:10):
To be perfectly honest, I'm an overly hopeful
individual so maybe more so thanneeded and so I would never
look at it from a lens ofpossible nefarious means or from
a political strategy component.
I would, however, look at itfrom, maybe, the facts given at

(48:32):
the time.
I believe that people aremaking the best decision with
what they have at the time, butI also believe that in that
instance, when you print thatmuch money, you have something
called an M2 money supply.
When that creeps up, you justhave so much money in the market
that it just automatically andyou have a global supply

(48:53):
shortage.
Inflation is gonna happen and,to make matters worse, I think
housing maybe shouldn't havebeen as low as it was at the
time in terms of rates.
So I think that when thatadjustment started happening,
instead of keeping it low, theyshould have just started quarter
pointing up rather than makingit a full point or a half point

(49:14):
and just basically shocking themarket, yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yeah, I think that's the other contrarian like me, in
the sense that see what thetrend is.
There's a great philosopher,but he's actually an economist.
His name is Robert Prakter andhe there was a writer back in
the 1920s and 30s called Eliotand he came up with the Eliot

(49:41):
wave concept, and the theory isthat humans tend to we can get
pretty good at projecting trends, like we see a trend, we
observe a trend and we canproject it forward, but interest
rates in the economy and pricesdon't really go in a straight
line.
They go in a wave pattern.
They go up, they go down andcrashes happen when the last guy

(50:05):
has put his last nickel in,because we always have sellers
but we don't always have buyers,and so he's.
He made the comment like ifyou're in Vegas and you're going
there to play, you know, slotmachines or blackjack, and your
cab driver is talking about hisreal estate portfolio, it's not
an insult on him, but it meansthat everybody has put all the

(50:26):
money they have into real estate.
It can only go one direction,which is down, and it's just a
kind of a cruel thing abouthuman nature.
When everybody is superoverconfident, there's no more
buyers left because everybody'salready bought, and that's the
time you should be looking atreducing debt and scaling back.
And even classical trainedeconomists have this tendency.

(50:49):
Things are great.
There's no reason they won't begreat tomorrow, because they've
been great for three years, sotomorrow should be exactly the
same.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
So, and I kind of I actually kind of agree with this
because I have a little bit ofa philosophy where I always try
to play almost the opposite ofmarkets.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Right.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
So where interest rates are high, the there's an
affordability crisis, for sure,and it's hard to purchase.
But if you have the ability topurchase, a lot of those people
put everything on the sideline.
Yes, where I don't Right, so Ilook at it as this is my time to
purchase, and so putting mymoney where my mouth is.

(51:26):
I purchased a full duplex inRutland that closed on July 3rd,
and so it's one of those thingswhere it's like, if I see
bidding wars happen, maybethat's not the best time.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (51:41):
But if I have an opportunity to kind of navigate
and kind of actually choose,maybe the decision I'm going to
make is not going to be anemotional one.
It'll be a more of a strategicone.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Yes, that I can play with.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
I think it would work the same in any market.
So if it's, if it's vehiclesand vehicles are suddenly
there's a shortage and you justknow that you'd like everyone is
like going is you got a yearbefore you're going to get your
next vehicle, but you order ittoday, I kind of see how that
would create almost a trend forsomebody where they're like oh,

(52:18):
I better get this now.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Right.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
Or else I'll miss out , and so that fear of missing
out can kind of kick in.
But I look at it more so likeif that's what's happening,
maybe I should just hold off,think about buying a used
vehicle or think about buyingsomething for now.
So it's been.
It's an interesting way to viewa market and it doesn't always

(52:41):
work.
So, buyer beware, don't makeinvestments decisions based on
me.
But it's worked out well for meand so like I'm basically a
product of really goodmentorship and so that is
something that was taught to me.
That's not something I came upwith.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
It's really hard for even very, very intelligent
people with a lot of experienceto take the emotion out of a
situation in a financial market,and I agree with you there is a
lot of opportunity.
Right now.
We don't know what the futureholds, but when people are a
little bit nervous and thinkingabout downsizing and trying to

(53:19):
get rid of real estate, there'sopportunities to buy if you're
positioned to do so when we arein the Okanagan and so we're
such an advantageous situation,the historical average on the
math that I did.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
So anyone out there if they want to actually like do
better math than I did, youknow what have at her.
But I came up with.
If you include all the way tolike 1979 and 1980, and you
remove all the years that werethe tumultuous COVID years where
everything basically doubled, Icame up with a number of 3.8%
as a historical average.

(53:55):
Year over year is what theequity increase has been.
So that is a massive numbersince that time.
And so if you know that there'sa possibility or a very high
chance that if you purchase ahome that you will get a 3.8%
equity increase on it, that'samazing Because most people

(54:19):
don't understand the compoundingeffect that that could have.
So I did this math earliertoday and it's kind of scary
math and so, if it is accurate,we did a home that was, I think,
400,000, it might have been 350or 400,000.
This is what I did literallyearlier today and then we put
that 3.8% in, compounded it over10 years and that number became

(54:41):
500,000.
And so then if that equityincrease over 10 years is
100,000, that's not bad.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Right.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
Like.
That means you're probablymaking money.
Now, if we here's where, don'tfollow my investment advice.
There might be a period of timewhen supply catches up.
It doesn't look like it rightnow.
And it doesn't seem likemunicipalities would have to
change and there'd be a lot of.
There'd have to be a lot offederal programs and a lot more

(55:08):
streamlining of developmentpermits to even make that occur.
But let's assume that all ofthose things happen.
The perfect storm happensSuddenly, there's an excess
supply of housing.
Well then, that increase is notgoing to exist.
So I would say that at thecurrent moment, I think there's
a huge opportunity and I thinktaking advantage of that
opportunity would be very useful, I think, for an individual

(55:32):
that's trying to build a future,and if they can make it happen,
that would be how you do it.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
So, it's and you're gonna guide them to make sure
they have enough down payment,that they're not paying too much
, that they're going to qualifyfor this.
But the qualification processis really a check on, like I
noticed myself, and a lot ofpeople get a little bit shocked
when they see a decline.
They're like, well, I thought Icould afford this, but the

(55:59):
people underwriting it don'tthink so.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
I have a wonderful story where it took me two and a
half years with one client thatjust I've never seen people try
so hard Like they.
Just it was very similar tomine where, like the, the
husband in this situation wasjust like oh, whatever, like
like almost felt dejected andalmost felt like I did when we,

(56:24):
when we went and we created thestrategy and created the plan,
but the wife was like no, we'regonna make this happen.
Right, and then we got closerand then he started seeing like
hope and he's like, okay, he'son board.
And then suddenly it's likeit's like a year and a half we
must have had, I think, likeseven declines.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
Can you imagine, yeah , like so we would go through
one and then the first one hithard, and then the third one
still hit hard and the fifth onestill hit hard, but the time
you got to the seventh one theywere like whatever it really
kind of came down to.
It is like it was almost likethe game kept changing for them,
and every time we submitted itwe thought we had fixed all of

(57:03):
the issues that we were supposedto fix and then we'd find a new
like.
It's almost like an escape room.
We'd like we get out of theescape room and be like, okay,
great, we got everything.
And then we hit the next stageand it's like hold on, why are
we in another escape room?
And so.
And so we constantly failedthis escape room and like at
first I think I think I rememberthe third or fourth one I like
I had another broker.

(57:23):
Look at everything.
I was like, look, am I just bad?
Like is this what's happeningright now?
And so like, should I just behanging up my skates at this
moment?
No, it was just.
It was wild, different thingsthat occurred, and it just it
just so happened that the firstlender that we went to
originally ended up being theseventh lender that allowed them

(57:46):
to get the, to get the place.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Well, and it just oh, when that happened, the tears
how much time went by from thefirst of the seven two and a
half years.
Two and a half years, Wow.
Was it a case of like?
Should they have Try to buysomething less expensive, or
what?

Speaker 3 (58:02):
No, so in this moment it was kind of a it was a
bankruptcy situation with somedebt payouts, and it was a very
different um some rules thatchanged.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
A complicate yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
Yeah, some rules that changed the complicated things
that that happened in themeantime.
So it was just, it was almostlike uh as that, uh, as they get
closer and as, like you, youget over the old threshold
that's required.
But suddenly the threshold hasmoved over a little bit like no
yeah how is this possible, right, so it just.
It became disheartening, Ithink, on everyone.
But it was, uh, it was a teamgame.

(58:37):
It was the same realtor, it wasthe uh, same mortgage broker,
me.
It was the same clients, we usethe same realtor, like we used.
We created a team environmentout of it that actually made it
believe it or not.
It was actually like a joyfulexperience at the end and it was
a like going through theprocess.

(58:59):
Yeah, there's somedisheartening moments,
definitely, and it affected me ahundred percent because I tend
to somehow get emotionally, uh,involved in, like, the client
aspect.
If, if I'm purchasing somethingfor me, there's zero emotion,
I'm like I'm like ready to go towar almost, and then, but if
it's oh, if it's a client, Ijust I get emotionally involved
and so and I know that it's bad,but I just do it every time and

(59:20):
so I kind of feel their pain.
A little bit even though Ishouldn't.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Right.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
And it's the, it's my empathy I almost go too far
over to one inch.
So when the decline happens I'mlike, oh, it feels like I just
got to climb Right.
So so it's it's like declinesdo happen.
But other things that I'velearned over the over time is to
kind of under promise and overdeliver and sometimes, uh, at

(59:47):
that time of being a broker Ikind of was like I could have
changed my process to be betterfor that, so I could have
prepared them way better forwhat was going to occur, right,
but I at that time was sohopeful that these would just
continually go through.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
And then I learned over time that maybe I should
start strategizing this one alittle bit better, and so it's.
It's kind of how I've um,evolved over time.
I've I've learned to be abetter broker, and I think it's
one of those things where, overperiods of time, you kind of
need to be I uh and I know I'mtalking around here but, um,
there was one uh broker Iremember talking to and I

(01:00:30):
explained it.
Like every six months it's likeI would look back at the guy
that was there six months agoand be like, well, that guy knew
nothing, right, and it'sstrange.
So I'm, I'm in year five, likeuh, heading into year six, and I
feel the exact same way.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
I feel like I look back six months ago and be like
wow, that guy was right, he hada lot to learn.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Still, yeah, and I think what you said a while ago
about just being human, beingvulnerable, being empathetic uh,
to me, that's really the key torepeat business and referral
business is not so much like, uh, they had a nice time, but they
, they trust you, they know thatyou're doing everything you can

(01:01:12):
and that you understand theirsituation top to bottom.
They wouldn't even think ofcalling somebody else the next
time.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
So you couldn't be more right.
Um, the general consensus is, Iwould say, on my business, when
I really look into the numbersand I look at everything, um,
and it's, it's honestly, it'sfrom having businesses prior.
It's you're trying to almostcreate a fan base, like you want
people to absolutely rave aboutyou you really do, and so the

(01:01:40):
bulk majority do just that andit's just led to more clients
and more clients and moreclients.
And it actually has made it sothat, like advertising, I've had
to do very little of because mybusiness has naturally grown
from that point of view.
And then it's nice because it'slike I've had realtors reach
out and be like, hey, we reallywant to work with you and me be

(01:02:02):
like, okay, well, let's see whatwe can work together on, but
it's it's having that capacityand having that understanding of
like, maybe this isn't theright fit, uh, because, and and
as much as you can provide me anexcess amount, um, and we can
ride off into the sunsettogether.
Sure, this isn't about gettingrich.
This is about helping peopleand maybe taking that sacrifice

(01:02:25):
today to allow for that systemand process and underlying
principle of just beingempathetic towards everyone and
actually understanding, uh, anddoing just a great job.
Yeah, um, that's more important, yeah, so yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
It makes it worth getting up and and and the time
with your son is probably wayless stressful.
When you know you're doing thatkind of job for your people,
you're not worried about Jesus,what's going to happen at nine
o'clock when that person callsme, like I mean, I was like that
when I was younger, you know Iwas always like trying to put
out fires and and uh avoidsituations and just being able

(01:03:00):
to deal with people on thatlevel has made my life so much
better, my time with my kids somuch better and business more
productive.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
I used to get so nervous delivering bad news.
I don't anymore.
It's it's a strange thingbecause it's it's almost like
I've learned to, um, justconfront it and be upfront with
absolutely everything.
I don't hide anything.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
Like I'm totally okay with like looking at someone's
finances, seeing that they'relike a hundred grand a debt, or
even five grand a debt, and thenthey're like, oh, I'm so
embarrassed I'll be like, listen, like at one time I was like 21
with $180,000 in debt.
You have nothing, yeah.
And so your path or your roadhere, uh, I know is like very
serious to you, but you can dothis.

(01:03:50):
And so, I think, providing thathope, um, and then, like I would
say that there's a leadershipcomponent to it too.
So it's, it's almost providingthat leadership to your clients,
as well as, uh, your staff andas well as, uh, the referral
partners and everybody aroundyou, and, um, just making sure
that everyone understands thatit's a team game, that this is.
We're all humans.

(01:04:10):
We're all fallible, like we canall make mistakes, so we just
roll with the punches and wejust play as we do.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Very cool.
We've spent uh over an houralready.
Um, can you tell us brieflyabout your new company and, if
you would like people to get intouch with you, how they could
do so?

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
Okay, so I've just created a new brokerage.
This is me being independentand going on my own.
I've hired a?
Uh underwriter who is, as Imentioned earlier, absolutely an
incredible amount of experience, which is uh, hugely helpful
for me and for all the realtorpartners and for all the clients
that are going to be in place.
Um, I'm looking to hire newagents that are wanting to come

(01:04:55):
on and learn a more vulnerable,I think, method Um and a and I
don't want to say wholesome as aword, but a uh a method of
brokering where they can betheir authentic selves and they
can still find success withintheir way.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Nice.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
So, uh, it's called insight mortgage um insight
financeca.
So I N S I G H T financeca and,uh, for me you can.
You can reach me at 250 8592100.
I love that number, um, and youcan also reach me at ash at

(01:05:32):
insight financeca.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Okay, We'll put that in the show notes.
So if people are driving, wedon't want you to you know, try
to write that down right thissecond, but it will be in the
show notes.
I don't want to pay thosemedical bills, no no, anyways,
uh, ash, it's been great talkingto you.
I could I said last week or theweek before, whenever that was
that I could talk to you forhours and uh, I feel it's

(01:05:57):
productive and and uh, verybeneficial for me to pick your
brain and, uh, I've reallyenjoyed getting to know you for
the last three and a half hours.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
Hey, thanks for having me on.
Okay, I appreciate this.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
You've been listening to.
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On each show we have in depth,intimate conversations with
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You can support the show, so wecan keep producing, by going to

(01:06:36):
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We hope you've gotten someuseful and practical information
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We'll be back soon.
Until then, this is I loveKelowna signing off.