Preakness Day Recap and Takeaways - How Good is Journalism?

PTF kicks off the show with Nick Tammaro as they take a look back at an amazing day of racing in Baltimore with thoughts on Journalism, Gosger, Heart of Honor, Goal Oriented and all the rest. They also look ahead to the Belmont Stakes wondering who will be the favorite if both Journalism and Sovereignty turn up.

Then in an easy-breezy second segment of the show torn from the In the Money Media Youtube channel, PTF and JK go over their top takeaways from the Preakness.

Last but not least, at 52:20 Tom Reynolds tells us about his new book Get Off Your Phone and Start Living.

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Takeaways:

• Monmouth Park has distinguished itself by sending the highest number of players to the NHC over the past five years, showcasing its prominence in the horse racing landscape.
• The upcoming $2,000 Pick Your Prize Handicapping Challenge at Monmouth Park on May 31 offers not only NHC seats but also Breeders' Cup Betting Challenge seats and cash prizes, emphasizing its significance.
• In the podcast, we discussed the importance of saving the date for major contests like the Pick Your Prize Challenge, which is a prime opportunity for contest players.
• The episode highlights the chance for players to qualify for the contest via horse tourneys, reinforcing the accessibility and engagement of the racing community.
• A critical analysis was offered regarding the jockey Umberto Rispoli's ride, where it was suggested that he unnecessarily limited the horse's potential by not taking a more advantageous route during the race.
• The conversation emphasized the importance of understanding race dynamics, including how the pace and the decisions of jockeys can significantly impact race outcomes.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
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over the last five years thanMonmouth park in 2025.
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Contest players are going towant to save the date.
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(00:22):
Challenge seats and of course cash.
And you have the ability to topick your prize.
Make sure you play in this contest.
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Go to monmouth park.com andlearn more by clicking on their Handicapping
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(00:43):
You do not want to miss this.
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Pick your prize.
Give me money.

(01:07):
Hello and welcome to the inthe Money Players Podcast.
Doing something a little bit different.
A Sunday recapsling we'vetoyed with doing for a long time.
Today we're making it happenin the aftermath of the pness.
It is Sunday, May 18th.
I'm Peter Thomas Fornitel backwith you from the Brooklyn Bunker
once again and we are reachingout to to a man from the planet Texas
who is with us.
Not the guy who's you can seeif you're watching on the YouTube

(01:30):
channel represented behind me,but a man who's here just as often
as he is.
He's Nick.
Tamara.
Nick, how are things?
I'm doing great, Pete.
I wouldn't show you what'sunderneath my hat because it's, it's
this thinning wave of wildpineapple looking black and silver
hair right now.
It would not go well on a logo.
Is that what you're telling me?

(01:52):
It wouldn't be great?
We do need a logo at somepoint more reflective of the collective
that we've become.
Nick, obviously you've been ahuge part of that doing writing for
us [e-mail] also on these shows regularly
and very curious to get yourthoughts on this Preakness.
We just start with what I sayto you off air.
What was my first comment?

(02:12):
Something to the.
Something to the effect ofhe's some horse, isn't he?
Good horse, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No doubt about it.
Right?
And I think for those of usthat have long felt he's clearly
the class of this division.
It's not vindication by any means.
I mean he ran a winning racein the Derby and probably wins the
majority of the derbies thatwe've seen in recent years.
But it was nice to see theconnections be awarded for having

(02:35):
the faith and the confidencethat he could come back on such short
rest.
And, you know, I guessobviously we, this is the time for
us to pick apart every elementof it.
I think the, the biggest thingthat I would say in terms of a takeaway
is that I don't really thinkI'd be in a big rush to glorify our
countryman Umberto Rispoli's ride.
I don't.
I don't think it was a goodride really, at all.

(02:59):
It.
He actually took a horse thatshould have won by a comfortable
margin and made it a lotcloser than it needed to be.
However, you know, he showedsome courage, obviously, in staying
inside and trying to gobetween horses.
But I thought there was afunny drone shot, bit of drone shot
footage, and they covered iton NBC and I saw the clip where Jerry
Bailey is talking about and he isolates.
It's probably right betweenthe 5:16 in the quarter.

(03:20):
And you can see very clearlyin this shot that there was an opportunity
at that point in time forUmberto to just say, the hell with
it, we're making the four lanechange to the right and we're going
to go outside.
And Bailey made the commentthat he might not have won if he
did that.
And I thought to myself, hemight not have won by three.
He probably would have won by six.

(03:41):
Right.
There is no way that he wasn'tgoing to win that race by a comfortable
margin doing so.
And then ironically, Umbertoin the post race press conference
referenced Jerry Bailey intelling him to save ground, that
you win the Preakness bysaving ground.
And Jerry has won many, manymore races than me.
And I'm not going to get intothat type of conversation, lest I
be reminded on Twitter againthat I've never ridden a horse, at

(04:03):
least one that was willing.
And so.
But at that point in time,staying inside is just like I had
a friend tell me on the phoneearlier this morning, why does he
ride that horse like a ten toone shot?
It's very interestingobservation, you know, and he did.
And, and so I wish that hehadn't made it so hard on him.
Now, one of the things that Iwanted to bring up with you in watching

(04:25):
the replay, one of the 20times I've already watched it, is
what happens if Clever againis a rallying horse and not a tiring
horse, because at that pointin time, when they start to the bump
where goal oriented looks likehe's coming in that's Journalism
hitting his hind end.
Horses don't naturally make aleftward jerk like that when they're

(04:45):
obviously they're not running straight.
So that contact was prettymuch all initiated by Umberto and
journalism and it was just, itwas something that wasn't necessary
because he had more thanenough horse to go outside and win
that race.
Let's back up because we do onthe YouTube channel especially we
have, I mean everybody's seen it.
But you're describing it in,in the detail of you and me, who's
watched the race six times.

(05:07):
How would you describe the incident?
Also, before we go anyfurther, I don't think I've even
name checked him yet.
Journalism, of course, thehorse that we're talking about, who
gets the job done, we'll talkabout the figure, etc, what he paid
in a little bit.
But give a description forthe, the more recent fans who are
watching along of, of of howyou saw this wild incident play out.

(05:28):
Yeah.
So obviously, I mean for thenovice race watcher, what you want
to know is that in a two turndirt horse race it isn't a matter
of who is accelerating themost, it's a matter of who is decelerating
the slowest.
Because dirt races are runwhere you're at your quickest early
and then you gradually slowdown as the race goes on.
Journalism is a horse with apedigree and a background that would

(05:48):
lead you to believe that he isvery distance oriented.
He is typical of his sireCurlin in that you have to get into
him a little bit.
Like you have to nudge himalong to get him to top speed.
He is not a horse that youjust adjust the reins and all of
a sudden he starts to now makemore of a move.
So I think what happenedaround the both announcers referenced
that it's probably around thehalf mile poll half to five eights.

(06:10):
They obviously were eachgetting to Journalism in the field.
They were paying particularattention to him as well.
And they saw that Humbertostarted to move the reins a little
bit.
He started to push him alittle bit harder and then he, as
he was hitting his top speedor maintaining his top speed, the
other horses started to tire alittle more rapidly I think than
Umberto probably realized it.
And, and that was when heshoved him into that tight spot on

(06:33):
the inside and he opted veryclearly to take an inner route towards
the front rather than going onthe outside.
Now the variable that youdon't know when you're on a horse
and you can tell this, ofcourse by watching it is how quickly
the horses in front of you aregoing to tire.
And most of the traffictrouble that you have in horse racing
happens when a horse in frontof you either tires more rapidly

(06:55):
than you expect or somebodymoves in from a different path and.
And takes the path that you'd like.
That didn't really occurbecause Journalism was kind of going
for a path that wasn't there,and that was where the whole kerfuffle
sort of started, right as theystraightened away in the head of
the stretch.
I think it's a good description.
I mean, watching Live thefirst time, I thought that he, he.

(07:15):
I.
I think what you're describingis correct.
I thought Goal Oriented mighthave been coming in on him.
That's what I.
Exactly what I was about to say.
I thought the same thing live, watching.
Live, but as you watch thatreplay, it much more is a case you
think of Goal Oriented justtiring and risk going for the hole
that wasn't there.
I think a little bit of both,I think.
You know, look, Flavian Pratton Goal Oriented, and my understanding

(07:38):
is that Flavian and Umbertoare friends, but obviously when you're
on the racetrack, you're all competitors.
He could have easily justallowed Goal Oriented to continue
to move out or not necessarilymake any contact with journalism.
And.
And then, of course, we allwould have said, oh, well, Flavian
just, you know, rolled out thered carpet for the favorite, but
he opted not to, and he wantedto hold his position.

(08:01):
He probably didn't really haveenough horse to lock Journalism in
for too long because GoalOriented was tiring.
I think I saw a quotesomewhere, too, where Flavian said
he thought he could havefinished second or third, but that's
nonsense.
He obviously wasn't going tofinish any better than fourth.
He was fourth best on the day.
But, yeah, Live View, Ithought, oh, Pratt's keeping him
locked in.
You know, journalism lookedlike he could have easily gotten

(08:22):
outside.
And what we really see inwatching the replay is that Pratt
was really maintaining astraight course.
There was simply no room there.
And that was where theincident really started.
Which, of course caused a bitof a chain reaction with Clever again
on the rail, who again,luckily for Umberto Rispoli in the
Journalism Connections wastiring and, you know, wasn't going
to finish any better than theback of the pack anyway.

(08:42):
He probably plummeted throughthe field a lot quicker having to
study the way he did, but itdidn't affect his finishing position.
Something I think even someseasoned racing fans don't realize
about the jockeyrelationships, the idea that in the
locker room they're all on thesame team, then they're going out
there and competing with theirvery lives at risk.
I mean, let's face it, it's adangerous activity and with.

(09:04):
They're incredibly competitive people.
It would be as if the, youknow, Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark
went back to the locker roomand changed together after the.
It's, it's a weird dynamic.
You know, you think abouthockey teams fighting on the ice
and then going and changingthe same.
It had never happened in anyother sport, but there's no other
way for it to work in racing.

(09:24):
And it does lead to, I think,some complicated relationships sometimes
between the boys and sometimes girls.
Yeah, I think for sure.
I mean, you're, you're, again,as you're saying, you're stuck in
there with your competitorsleft and right.
And so, yeah, it's, itdefinitely lends itself to that.
And you know, the other thingis that you're, the very nature of
your competition is thatyou're, you're piloting a horse,

(09:45):
right.
And so you don't really know exactly.
You kind of have a sense ofwhat you have under you, but sometimes
you don't have as much as youthought or sometimes you have a little
bit more.
Let's talk about what happenedafter the rgbargy.
So there's this big incident,Journalism, who, I agree with you
funny enough, even though he'squickened impressively now in two
of his last three races, heain't a quickener, he's a grinder.

(10:07):
He wants to get the top speedand stay as close to that as he can
for as long as he can.
And I mean, quite simply, thebird had flown.
Gar had but been Goskar wasthe upset winner of the Preakness
at the eighth pole.
I just, you know, watching asmany races as we watch Nick, I mean,
from the eighth poll in howmany times out of a hundred do you

(10:27):
see a horse win from whereJournalism was?
Very rarely.
Right.
It just does not happen verymuch at all.
And, you know, it leads youdown the rabbit hole of Journalism's
PPS that, I mean, this is whathe did in the Low Self Eternity.
This is what he did in the San Felipe.
This is what he did in the SanAnita Derby.
You know, he had a target infront of him.
And that was one thing thatRispoli acknowledged yesterday, is

(10:49):
that when he sees a target infront of him, he's going to go get
him.
So, you know, it almost makesyou wonder if what he was saying
is that maybe he did pull thetrigger a little bit too early in
the Derby.
You know, maybe he wassupposed to look for more of that
last move type of situation.
One thing I think that's clearabout watching journalism is that
when you get him clear and youget him into an open space, he kicks

(11:11):
on and he.
He will try everything he canto run down whoever's in front of
him.
So, yeah, I mean, I would havegiven him a win probability in the
single digits probably afterthat in upper stretch.
And the, the one thing youweren't sure of is exactly how much
Gar was going to be able to finish.
Gasker ran a very, very goodrace and total acknowledgement to
Brendan Walsh and Luis sizesgave him a perfect ride, put him

(11:32):
in a great position, reallydoing what Luis does best, which
is being aggressive and, youknow, taking the race to everybody
else.
And Brendan is the mostunderrated trainer in America.
To me, even though he'sgetting more publicity, he still
doesn't get his.
His due, in my opinion.
So.
But yeah, to answer yourquestion, I would have given him
virtually no chance at theeighth Bowl.
Finishing second in a classicwill definitely help put you on the

(11:54):
radar that much more.
He does do a fine job and hasbeen on our airwaves many times offering
some, some excellent insights.
It was, it was a horse thatwas not heavily on my radar in this
race, and he nearly won thedamn thing.
So let's get back tojournalism for a minute.
My, My next question is sopretty big trips in two out of the

(12:14):
last three races without wheremaybe trips weren't necessary.
Is there, is there an aspectof journalism that he finds trouble
or perhaps.
And I, you know, I don't wantto pick on him too much.
Is this a little bit of abyproduct of Rispoli, you know, his
most prominent riding beforecoming to the States, Hong Kong,

(12:35):
those type of trips that we'redescribing, saving ground, finishing,
taking your chances.
That's what you need to doaround those tracks, those turf tracks
in Hong Kong.
Does he maybe need to adjust alittle bit and ride this horse a
little differently going forward?
Yeah, I, I think that's fairto say.
I don't think it's too bold inorder to say that.

(12:56):
But, you know, one of the, Oneof the things I think in this era
of, of American jockeying thathas always mattered to me is if you
think about the guys that youfeel the most confidence in when
they're riding a favorite andit's generally guys like John Velasquez,
right.
I think Vintage JavierCastellano, obviously, Irad Pratt.

(13:17):
What a lot of these guys don'tdo is get in their horse's way and
they're able to let them runeffectively without being a hindrance.
And I think Humberto justneeds a little more confidence in
his mount and needs tounderstand that, like, you don't
really need to cut corners toget that horse to win.
And both of the races nowwhere he's had trouble, it's been

(13:38):
because he's been overlycommitted to being inside.
So, you know, don't think fora second the other writers don't
recognize that as well.
And they think, you know, weput this guy down there, who knows
what could happen.
And when you've got a, a big,long, striding, distance oriented
horse, the last thing you needto do is get them held up at any
point in time.
And I think that's been thenature of some of his problems.

(13:58):
So I, I would like to see himridden a little bit more.
I don't know if aggressive isthe right word, but definitely confidently.
You know, I don't know.
I'm not saying I want youparking him 4 wide the whole way
around the racetrack, butit'll be interesting to see in these
races will all pretty much bethe same.
But I think he's been in afast paced race now.
He's been in a moderatelypaced race.

(14:20):
He's been in a slow paced racein, in some of the California races,
obviously with fewer horses in them.
But I think if he could justget him into a comfortable spot and
find a way to, to get him outinto the clear so he can produce
his run a little bit earlier,I think we'll see the very best of
this horse.
I haven't seen pace figuresyet on the Preakness.
How would you describe the pace?
Craig Milkowski alluded to itbeing fast.

(14:42):
He actually said gor will geta higher fig than, than will journalism.
Obviously everything figrelated with journalism you have
to, to take with a grain ofsalt because of the, of the trouble.
But yeah, I think he had it onthe faster side of par.
So it felt like it, right?
It felt decent.
46 and change.
When you consider, and I thinkthat actually upgrades Gosger quite

(15:02):
a bit.
You can't say, oh, cleverAgain, finished at the back of the
pack because he did getsteadied in upper stretch.
But basically everybody elsewho was within range of that pace
did not finish.
Right.
That was a big that makes sense.
More, a little bit more than honest.
Felt right watching it.
Right.
But obviously I'll defer tothe figure makers.
Let's talk about the final figure.
You were doing a little bit ofdigging on this before we came on

(15:23):
air.
Yeah.
98 buyer speed figure iswhat's been issued by the, by the
Buyer Associates team.
This is a fig that I believeAndy still makes himself, I think,
being a, being a Marylander,or at least close enough so that
fits, I think, well with thebalance of the field.
It would give Gosger a 10point improvement over his Lexington.

(15:44):
It would also lead you tobelieve maybe the Lexington figure
is a little low.
We haven't seen a lot of runbacks out of there yet, so we'll
see a little bit more as timegoes by.
But it would be a slight, youknow, a slight, what do you say,
decline in journalism's figs.
But again, I mean, you're,you're taking this fig with a grain
of salt.
It would put Sandman rightwithin range of what he's been running

(16:05):
consistently.
It would put goal oriented at89 after 291.
So it seems pretty solid.
It seems totally believable.
I wanted to discuss this withyou because I scoffed at people who
do this left and right withthe whole conversation about he could
have run faster.
I was just going to bring that up.
I've heard you on the otherside of this argument so many times
now, it seems like you'reactually saying he.

(16:25):
Could have run faster.
Right.
I mean, he could have.
The final time could have been faster.
You know, if we, if we go backhowever many hours it was and, and
we, somebody, some littlebirdie chirps in, in Umberto's ear
and is like, hey, go to theright right here.
You can go around these horsesand you'll just roll home and he
wins this thing by three orfour and he goes 54 and change and

(16:46):
gets a 105.
You know, it's not impossible.
It doesn't sound crazy.
Yeah.
In all the watching, I had theexact same opinion watching the replay.
And of course, it's so mucheasier sitting on the couch doing
this.
I don't deny that.
But there is a moment when itdid seem like the path was clear
to just come off and insideout it and, and finish up and.

(17:10):
Yeah, that doesn't sound likea crazy scenario at all.
I mean, if you don't have tostop at that critical stage of the
race, you're obviously goingto run faster.
Which brings the question, howGood is this horse.
What do we expect next from him?
Is there any chance in theworld in three weeks we get a Derby
winner and a Preakness winnerin the same gate?
Where does journalism go from here?

(17:32):
I mean, it sure seems like theconnections want to do it, and, you
know, boy, are they a breathof fresh air in what's.
In this landscape.
It is really, really great.
Yeah.
And I'm.
I've always been a big fan ofEclipse as a partnership.
I think they do an excellent job.
I have some friends that havebeen involved, and obviously this
is a group of.
A number of owners that havebeen active in the game.

(17:54):
I believe he was wearingBridalwood Farm silks yesterday,
but Lenta's in there and.
And Don Alberto's in there, soit's a good group of owners.
But, you know, Aaron Wellmanseems as if being the head of Eclipse,
he's kind of been the onethat's dealt with the media most,
and he made it pretty clearyesterday they want to run in the
Belmont.
I think I.
I think, Pete, what it boilsdown to is I've.

(18:16):
I've discussed this in thepast, and obviously I'm not a trainer,
but to me, if you were doing.
If you were, like, reallydoing your job thoroughly, aren't
you bringing a horse to theKentucky Derby that you are planning
on running three times in five weeks?
That's how they used to do it,you know, I mean, only the modern
game makes me.
Makes me think that that's notthe case.

(18:38):
You know, I mean.
Right.
And.
And, you know, studying these.
This.
These past performances andthese form cycles and using all the
figures that we do andwatching the thousands and thousands
of races that we do on ayearly basis.
So, you know, you take a horsethat runs in the Kentucky Derby,
you put them on the shelf forfive or six weeks.
We had this conversation, Ithink, last week.
I talked to.

(18:58):
To Mikey P.
About on one of the shows,this horse is at a peak level of
fitness for the Kentucky Derby.
Right.
Unless you have some excusethat you know about that maybe you
didn't share publicly sourcesat a peak level of fitness.
The last thing you want to dois sit on them for six weeks, like
it makes no sense whatsoever.
So I think they brought ahorse that they fully expected to
run three times in five weeks,and that's what they're going to

(19:20):
do.
And what they could do withhim afterwards is give him some down
time, you know, let himrecover for a couple months.
You're probably not going tolook at a race like the again until
the Travers.
And you know what?
If you win the Belmont, you'reprobably taking the path of least
resistance and running him inthe Pacific Classic and just saying,
you know what you want?
You want us, come get us.
Right?
Right.
Because we went and playedyour game for five weeks.

(19:42):
And I will say right now, Ithink he's the best three year old.
I think he'll.
I hope he's given theopportunity to prove that.
I think if they're playing alittle bit of a road game, going
to take on Sovereignty at Saratoga.
But you know what?
I applaud the connections foreven considering it.
I hope it happens.
Who's the favorite?
If they both end up there,Journalism will be favored.

(20:03):
I saw somebody say theythought he'd be even Money and sovereignty
would be 5 to 2.
I don't think there'd be thatmuch of a stretch.
I think they'd be more in,like, the, I don't know, six to five,
two to one kind of range.
I think Journalism will alwayshave that cachet, having been the
Derby favorite, butSovereignty is now the Derby winner,
which matters quite a bit.
But I think all thispopularity, the Journalism is rightfully

(20:23):
gaining based on what happened yesterday.
He'll be.
He'll be the favorite, but Idon't think it'll be by a massive
margin.
And then, of course, I mean,looking at the Belmont, not that
we were.
We're going to spend a wholelot of time on this, but you have
Baeza getting back into themix as well.
So, you know, it's nice to seethat there are going to be additional
horses running in there.
I think if both of the twoheavy heads go, all they each need

(20:45):
to do is call up a speed horseand make sure that one of them shows
up.
Although Journalism's camp maynot want much of a speed horse to
go, they might want their edgeto be that they can be a little bit
more forward on a horse like Sovereignty.
But I haven't really seenanybody mentioned that looks like
a speed horse.
So if I haven't looked yet, dowe have any.
I'll look for stakes probablesoff the top of your head.
Do you know anybody else fromthe Derby who's definitely pointing.

(21:07):
So the only.
The only ones I can think ofright now are all closers, right?
I mean, the horses we've seenmentioned are Hill, Road, Sovereignty
and Baeza.
Baeza is not really a closer.
I think he ended up fartherback in the Derby than he kind of
needed to be.
But Yeah, I don't.
I don't know.
I don't know who will go fromthe Derby.

(21:29):
I.
I think you know what, we'llsee sort of a la Sandman in the Preakness.
F if ties time goes by, you'regoing to see people become more interested
and.
And they should because a mileand a quarter at Saratoga is a fair
trip.
You can easily get there onthe front end like Dornick did last
year.
Dornick basically wired, but Idon't see any of those.
I wonder if Brendan Walshmaybe considers.
Well, no, he's not going torun East Avenue against him.

(21:50):
The Dolphin horse.
Obviously that was dumb, butyeah, here's the.
Here's the list as of now fromthe Horse Racing Nation page.
Baeza Cornucopian.
Interesting.
Hill Road closer Rodriguez issupposed to go.
But Rodriguez was supposed torun in the last.
Exactly.
We'll see what happens with that.
How quick that foot bounces back.
Grande sovereignty journalismfinal gambit.

(22:10):
So you're all closers.
Yeah.
Not a ton of.
Not a ton of speed.
Depending on what happens withthe Baffert, I guess.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, Cornucopian is not goingto run into Belmont.
I mean Cornucopian may run atSaratoga in early June.
Hopefully it's in a one other then.
Right.
But you know, and that.
I mean.
Yeah.
I don't know how much you wantto talk about also rans in the.
In the Preakness because.
Yeah, I think we should.

(22:31):
I think we've.
We've.
There's more we could talkabout journalism certainly, but we'll
save that.
We're gonna have loads ofother stuff.
Should remind folks tosubscribe to the in The Money Media
YouTube channel because we'llhave plenty of YouTube exclusive
content obviously in the Moneyplayers podcast, wherever you get
your podcast on the audio sideto get our bread and butter stuff.
But the.
The YouTube channel, greatplace to get lots of bonus stuff.

(22:53):
Helps us out if you subscribe there.
We blew past the 12, 500 goal,by the way.
Well, I haven't decided whatthe number is going to be.
We'll push for.
For Belmont but help us out regardless.
If you haven't subscribedalready, do that also let us know
what you think in the comments.
Maybe the key question for thecomments is they both go.
Who is the favorite,Sovereignty or journalism?
I do think there is asovereignty case to be made, but

(23:14):
I think it was you on another show.
Nick pointed out to me that the.
The cachet of Derby winneralways getting bad like that, that
used.
That used to be a thing, butat least with Mystic Dan, not a thing.
Right.
I mean, like, we.
We've seen these horses be.
And there's been some otherinstances in recent years, too, where
they're.
They're not.
They're not auto favorites therest of their life the way I feel

(23:35):
like they were at some time.
Does that sound about right?
Yeah, I think that's fair.
I think it also has to do withthe fact that Mystic Dan was a long
shot when he won the Derby.
Right.
So, you know, I mean, I.
I still remind people thatcharismatic was 8 to 1 in the Preakness.
Right.
So, you know, it's.
It's not as if just being theDerby winner makes you all of a sudden
overly bad.
I think the Triple Crownhorses changed that a little bit

(23:56):
in that they had so muchfanfare and were so popular that
they ended up going off.
I believe War Emblem went offthe favorite in the 2002 Breeders
Cup Classic.
Right.
I mean, I know that fielddidn't exactly have a whole lot of
heavies from the handicapdivision, but it is kind of amazing
to think that.
That he went off the favoritein a field like that.
So, yeah, I mean, there's alot of cachet associated with it,

(24:17):
but he was still in a skewedwin pool and not really a truly indicative
win pool.
He was seven point somethingto one.
So it would be.
It'd be hard for me to imaginehe would get below journalism in
terms of favoritism.
Let's talk about before we getto the.
Also rans the overall businesson the day, because I want to let
you properly take a victorylap for keeping things the way they
are, which this year seemslike a pretty good data point for,

(24:39):
given the stories we did.
You know, I was concernedabout the stories with.
With having both Sandman andjournalism go that.
That was less.
Less of a concern this year.
Certainly, you know, we're notgoing to get into the debate any
deeper than this, but I thinkto me, the sneaky best argument against
leaving things the way theyare is the business that these races

(25:01):
do as currently constructed.
And once again, this.
That's a data point in.
In the favor of keep it theway it is.
Yeah, I think one of thethings that's totally overlooked
is exactly what you just laidout, which is that the urgency created
by a short series before thesummer has really kicked in is significant.
And you're just not going toget it if you start to stretch it

(25:23):
out.
And, you know, the Folks atNaira are going to experience this
to an extent this year.
Obviously, business is goingto be up at Saratoga relative to
what it was at Aqueduct thesame weekend a year before on July
4th.
But if you put the BelmontStakes on that weekend, you have
spread out the entertainmentdollar, you have spread out the wagering

(25:43):
dollar in terms of there beingother things going on that time of
year.
There's just not the urgencythat you have because it's ingrained
in people that the Preaknessis two weeks after the Derby.
So, you know, I put up thatstatistic a couple of weeks ago about
Handel on the respectiveraces, and I wonder how many people
saw it as a total revelationthat, like last year's Preakness

(26:05):
handled three times what theBreeders Cup Classic did.
Right.
They had five less horses.
Right.
So, I mean, the immensepopularity of these races is being
totally and completely overlooked.
And the problem is that thewhole conversation is being centered
on what modern horsemen are doing.
And that is only.
I'm not saying it'sunimportant, but it is only one factor.

(26:26):
Right.
It is not the be all, end all.
And as I said yesterday,because I'm loving just sort of being
a thorn in everybody's side,shocking that I would enjoy that.
But what horses that didn'trun yesterday would have run if it
was in two more weeks?
The answer is none.
You don't think sovereigntywould have.
I.

(26:46):
Michael Banahan, told Billyand Michelle that.
Right, right.
On the, on the, on the owner podcast.
So, I mean, I don't, I don't really.
I mean, do I firmly believe it?
Not really, but it doesn't do lying.
But I think, you know, talkyourself into things when you're
in these fantastical situations.
Right.
As a rule, I think if you gavethe majority of these people, if

(27:09):
you gave them a choice of doyou want to come back in 28 days
or do you want to come back in56 days?
Better than 50.
Are coming back in 56 daysbased on modern training.
You know, it's only these guyswith a more old school approach and
mentality that are willing todo it.
We talked about the, thebusiness being up just generally,
but this year I thought wasparticularly strong, wasn't it?

(27:30):
Yeah.
Preakness handle was up over 10%.
The handle on the day was thesecond highest of all time.
I think the number was 1, 121.
I'd have to get the exactnumber, but 2021 was the only year
where it was more.
So.
That's outstanding.
I Mean, that's.
That's really, really strong.
Yeah.
That's incredible numbers.
So, you know, I mean, gettingback to my.

(27:50):
You know, Randy having finally.
Randy Moss having finally sortof pulled me to his side on this
one, my main thing wassomething's got to change, because
I want.
If Derby winners are going tobe routinely skipping the Preakness.
But maybe what just needs tochange, to your point, is modern
horseman's attitudes and maybeseeing journalism run so well, Sandman
run so well back on two weeks,maybe there's some incentive.

(28:14):
Maybe there's some change intraining that could happen to make
them realize.
No, no, no.
The.
There is some magic to wherethese races are placed.
Let's get these horses in thegate more.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I mean, the problem with a lotof it is that the tail wags the dog
on the breeding part of thegame, where these guys, these trainers
are obviously trying to makestallions because that's a way for
them to earn a lot of passiveincome for the good work they've

(28:36):
done.
Up to it, and I understand it, right?
I'm never going to begrudgeanyone trying to make a buck.
So it's.
I.
What I.
What I posited it, right, WhatI posited as a solution is, which
obviously they wouldn't likeeither, is just strip all the Preps
of Grade 1 status, make thePreakness the second grade, one of
the year and one of only fourin a restricted category, and then

(28:58):
you're automatically going tomake it more intriguing.
The problem is that the.
One of the biggest things thePreakness has suffered because of
is the Derby's popularity, Right?
Nobody really does what ChadBrown has done twice in the last
eight years, which is to say,hey, I'm going to skip the Derby,
I'm going to go to thePreakness with a fresh horse.
And let's be honest, Pete,that only happened because he has

(29:21):
an owner who was willing to doit right?
And a lot of these owners.
I want to go to the Derby.
What are you talking about?
Absolutely.
I mean, to think a lot of theearly voting finished second in the
Wood Memorial, beaten ahead,and they skipped the Derby to run
in the Preakness.
And you know what ended up happening?
They won the Preakness.
And you know where earlyvoting is now?
He's at stud.
Yep, exactly.

(29:42):
He would have no chance in that.
I think we agree.
He would have had no chance.
Right, Exactly.
And don't get me wrong.
I mean, those connections havecertainly run horses in there that
have run poorly.
But again, it's not a vanity play.
If you're looking at it from abusiness standpoint and you're saying
to yourself, I want to get ahorse to the point where they can
become a stallion and earnthat type of money, then that's what
you need to do.
So strip the, strip the Prepsof Grade 1 status.

(30:05):
I know that won't make some ofour friends at Keene, Linden and
Santa Anita happy, but that's fine.
The other thing about thePreakness itself and the Preakness
card is that you can move thething back two weeks.
A lot of the horses areconsolidated right now in, in very
few barns.
If you're trotting out a bunchof 100 and 200 thousand dollar undercard
stake races, you're not reallywetting the whistle of a lot of these

(30:26):
connections to run a horde of horses.
Now they've done an excellentjob with the bonuses and the incentives
and all of these variousthings to get horses into it.
And I think this year's slateof races was as competitive as it's
been in years.
So I want to, you know,certainly give all the credit and
give it its due.
But if you're telling me thatwe're still running these mega cards
on, on Belmont Day and thosehorsemen are going to have an option

(30:47):
of waiting for those, they'regoing to wait for those.
They're not going to keeprunning every four weeks.
We've seen this play out overand over and over and I don't think
the world is going to betreated to some pamphlet or, or,
you know, training method onhow you're supposed to get a horse
ready to run more frequently.
I think the trainers are goingto go about their business the right
way, the way they, theycontinue to.

(31:08):
Let's get to the Preaknessalso rans a little bit.
We talked gor.
You know, Sandman certainlybetter results than, than in the
Derby for him.
He just, he looked tested forclass against the likes of, of journalism
and, and didn't quite pass.
I mean, but a, but a horsethat probably has some, I don't know,
I don't know what they'regoing to do if they're going to go
for the smaller Derby route orwhat would you do if you were advising

(31:29):
Team Sandman?
It's tough, right?
You know, he's not really aHaskell type of horse, profile wise.
You probably take him toSaratoga and try the Jim Dandy and
see where you fit into that.
It's it's hard to say that youhave a horse run third in the Preakness
and you're disappointed.
I think that.
And I don't think they should be.
I think the disappointment isthat you, you don't really know what

(31:50):
is going to get this horse tothe level of like a journalism or
a sovereignty because he's gotthat style that's just sort of.
It's difficult for dirt racingand he did kind of flatten out late,
which is probably the mostdisappointing part of it.
You expect with a horse likethat they're going to, you know,
continue to run on and fight on.
And I mean, journalism,journalism ran away from him like
he was tied to a post.

(32:11):
So you, you, you know, youprobably want to give him a chance
at that.
He, he's a Tapit.
So, you know, big hope.
That's the big.
Right.
Maybe you want to go gingerlywith him.
Right.
Maybe you want to kind of gogingerly with him the rest of the
year and hope that he maybebecomes a better 4 year old.
I know I'm not going to bethat guy that's espousing running
less times, but, but, youknow, you run him in the gym dandy,

(32:33):
see where he fits, see wherethe rest of the division shakes out.
Maybe you end up catching sometired horses towards the end of the
year.
Turnbacks for Goal Orientedand River Thames.
Yeah, River Thames is going to be.
He'll be very tough in the NewYork Bread races as well.
So he's.
I would expect we'll see himin the future.
I think if we see him aroundtwo turns again, it'll be against
New York Breads.
He needs to go shorter.

(32:54):
Goal Oriented probably does as well.
Just such a tough spot to runthat horse in there.
Off, off two races in a twoweek break and he ran well.
He's not a.
Not a bad horse by any means.
He had a stable mate, Varney,who ran well as well earlier on the
card.
So we'll see that thatownership group, I'm sure will have
a horse for the Belmont.
What you think of Heart ofHonor at the end of the day?

(33:15):
I mean, it wasn't the easiest journey.
He was sticking on a littlebit late, but just, you know, also
tested for class.
Didn't pass probably.
Yeah.
I think the thing that sticksout to me most about his effort and
some of what we saw from theJapanese runners in last year's Breeders
cup and some of what we'veseen from the Japanese runners in
the Derby as well is I don'tKnow how much these people really

(33:36):
understand American pace.
Like dirt racing is, is allpace oriented and heart of Honor
was just totally out sprinted.
He's a late runner anyway, buthe was totally out sprinted early.
And when he finally got intothe race he was sort of picking up
pieces.
You know, it was the ultimatebasketball garbage time effort.
But I, look, I think it's funand I guess Dwayne Lucas made a comment
about it being like apublicity stunt or something to get

(33:56):
the international horses in it.
I, I have to look into thatmore, which I think is kind of funny.
But why not, right?
Why not have come over andtake a chance?
There's nothing wrong with it.
Yeah, exactly.
And I mean, I think underslightly other circumstances could
have.
I mean he was fifth.
I just needed him to be fourthand it would have been a very happy
day.
I spent way too much of mybankroll trying to get him to be
fourth rather than justfocusing on the pretty solid.

(34:19):
What did you think in the end?
I mean, even money in the windpool did feel like solid value on,
on journalism, didn't it?
Oh, sure, yeah.
I mean, look, I thought he wasthree to five or so on paper.
I'm just not one of those guysthat's going to make big, you know,
four figure win bets on evenmoney shots.
But I would say, yeah, if you,if you are, you were definitely.
I know plenty of people whoprobably bet a sizable amount on

(34:39):
him to win, thinking that evenmoney was, was kind of a gift.
They probably didn't feel thatway at the eighth bowl, but it still
was a gift.
He could have been totallystopped and finished second.
It was a good price.
Yeah, no, I, I think so.
And you know, I was talking toa friend of mine on the way to the
track yesterday and he said,what about Goskar?
Nobody's talking about Goskar.
And I said, you know, thathorse is better than people think.
He always trained well.

(35:00):
He was bet well on debut.
Didn't quite have it go hisway that day, but he always hinted
at having some ability and,and yeah, Brendan's a, Brendan's
a very good trainer who's nowgetting his proper due.
What do we think?
Do we think he'll do?
Do we think he'll come, could.
He won't come back obviouslyin, in three weeks, but will he contest

(35:21):
the big, you know, is he atraverse type potentially?
I mean, it feels like, I don'tknow how much of it was him not fully
seeing it out, how much of itwas journalism's obvious Nose for
the wire.
Like what.
What's Gor's ideal distance?
I guess that's the question Iwant to ask you.
Yeah, probably more in the, inthe mile and a 16 to mile and an
eighth range.
If he was my horse, I wouldtry to get him to the traverse through

(35:42):
the Indiana Derby and probablygo straight to the Indiana Derby,
which gives you about six,seven weeks and then it would be
about the same from there.
You know, I think what youwant to avoid or, or, or actually,
now that I say it, theHaskell's too.
I was going to say Haskell horse.
You probably think about theHaskell being that he's a horse with
some speed that probably fitsMammoth Strip quite well.
And you know, the thing is,the Haskell's a race that's generally

(36:04):
been.
Been dominated in.
In.
Well, not generally, but it'sbeen dominated in many years by Bob
Baffert's second wave of threeyear olds.
And it doesn't really looklike Bob's got a second wave of three
year olds.
You know, it's, it's kind offunny that we do all this talking
about Bob Baffert andjustifiably, because he was able
to run the Derby again, butBob hasn't really had a good three
year old in a while now.

(36:24):
Right.
I mean, there's been ones withpromise, but it seems, yeah, they
just get, they've gotten derailed.
Right.
Which is actually good.
You know, it would have beenthe shame if there was one during
the ban that you would havesaid, oh, well, that horse definitely
would have won the Derby.
There's nothing like thatthough, is there?
No, I mean, Nysos, peoplewanted to make him into that, but
he got hurt.
And you know, I think Barnes,we were led to believe was the second

(36:44):
coming and he's a sprinter,so, yeah, I mean, look, it's hard
to have a good horse everyyear, even when you're getting nothing
but blue chip stock.
And it seems like with thisyear's group, he has a lot of milers,
you know, he has a lot ofhorses that probably are at their
best around a mile.
And I mean, hell, he got achampionship and a Breeders Cup Juvenile
win out of Citizen Bull, who'svery ordinary in my opinion, but

(37:07):
nobody's going to take thataway from him.
So obviously you get him theright horse, he's going to get you
the result that you want.
And you know, with that beingsaid, now that I've said that, Rodriguez
will probably wire the Belmont.
Piss in my face.
But yeah, it Happens.
It's been known to happen.
Yeah.
Build sand getting kicked inyour face, quick rattle through anything

(37:28):
else you thought wasinteresting on the card.
We should give props to FortWashington, a horse I've always been
a fan of who got the job donein the Dinner Party Stakes.
Was surprised he paid $12, butit was such a.
It was a open.
It was a wildly open race,betting wise and.
And I wonder if he didn't paya bit shorter in the picks from some
of the things that I waslooking at.
But it was a good effort.

(37:49):
He's a finisher and.
And he had a good setup and he.
He made that decisive move andhad enough to.
To hold off the others late.
Yeah, the betting was kind of crazy.
I was looking at the will paysand the wind pool with about 10 minutes
to post and Abramar was thefavor double or was the second choice.
Double was 20 to 1 on themorning line and at that point was

(38:11):
like 12 to 1.
And so I said to myself, well,obviously this horse is going to
get a huge late hit.
And.
And he did.
He went all the way down tofive to one.
I mean, him and FortWashington going off the same price
was not something that Ithought was possible.
But yeah, Junior Alvaradoasked Fort Washington to do a lot
more yesterday than he reallyhas because he's generally just been

(38:33):
sort of a last move closer andhe moved quite a bit earlier.
He handled the going.
Junior has ridden this horsevery well on a regular basis.
I'm actually looking at thewill pays on this race.
So.
Yeah.
Oh, no, you know what?
They're not available, butyeah, I don't know how much.
So Fort Washington played ashe was the second third choice double
into.
Into journalism.

(38:53):
The only ones that wereshorter were trickery and the divan
propo.
So.
Okay, so that actually didmodel the wind pool in the end.
It did kind of.
Yeah, more or less.
But I think 5 to 1 on him wasvalue when all is said and done.
And I was.
He was one of the three that I.
We talked about that I wasgoing to use on the.
In the Money plus Inner Circle show.
So I was gratified with the result.
Yeah, he's a horse that I'veliked for quite some time.
That worked out.

(39:14):
That worked out all right.
I lost some confidence thereafter the scratches and.
And ended up using.
But I spread to spread toowide and gave way too much equity
and, you know, ended up tyingbasically in there.
Anything else on the undercardyou want to highlight?
There were definitely a Fewinteresting runners.
Yeah, I mean look, it was abig, big, kind of nice looking win
from Crudeau and the Sir Barton.

(39:35):
I think my enthusiasm wastempered a little bit when I went
back through the charts andsaw the final time.
But I will say from a speedfigure perspective it looks like
there was a pretty clear trackslowdown, a speed change in the middle
of this card and what I meanby that is it's, it's hard to believe
Retribution went slower than Zytlos.
It's hard to believe that bothof them went significantly slower

(39:57):
than the first race winnerwho's generally been getting high
80s buyer speed figures.
So I, I think we had a trackspeed change in the middle of the
day and it's basically goingto be one of those hodgepodge figure
days where you're eitherlooking at multiple variants or multiple
projections.
So you're going to want to becareful with any, any speed figures.
Any final time speed figuresthat you use.

(40:18):
Obviously you want tointegrate a pace fig and then you're
going to want to look at athorough graph type fig.
Especially for a horse likeRetribution who won the Chick laying
with a big wide move in there.
So.
But we'll see.
I would imagine Todd wants torun Crudeau in a big race in his
next start.
Now that he's gone two turns.
You would think that he'llprobably be on a Haskell collision
course, maybe a Tim Dandy astime goes by.

(40:40):
But yeah, it's good to seethat we've got kind of a second wave
of horses for the second halfof the year.
Invictus was thedisappointment in there, the son
of Serengeti Empress who ran poorly.
But I don't know if younoticed, Pete, Brad Cox hand walked
the this horse through thepost parade.
I didn't see that.
So, so obviously he's got someissues upstairs I would think and
that might be, he might be ahorse that needs to run when there

(41:02):
aren't a hundred thousandscreaming at him.
But again, I don't really lovethose kind of excuses.
So he's gonna have to runbetter in his next start.
But knowing Brad, he'll find aone other then because he'll be two
to five and Brad likes to runat that price, so who could blame
him?
Crudo's figure was an 84.
You, you taking that at facevalue a little better.
I don't, I don't think thatthere's, I don't think there's any

(41:22):
way that he got an 84.
I don't that that belies the,the idea that, that there could have
been a track speed change,which I just don't.
I, I'm not buying it.
I don't.
I don't think he got an 84 andwon that race by eight.
So it looks like they playedthe figs all straight, which I don't
like.
Yeah, I'm, I'm not, I'm not quite.
Seeing we do this on Sunday.

(41:42):
These figures can change too.
They did just pop up in theFormulator, but I mean, that, that
means.
That he barely ran faster thanhis maiden race, where he set a really
slow pace and drew clear late.
It means Just a fair shakecame down 12.
It means Invictus came down 23.
It means bear claw necklace,you know, beaten 13 lengths, goes
down four points.
I'm just, I don't, I don'tlike that fig.

(42:03):
But again, I understand whythey sort of did it, but, yeah, this,
this whole day is, is lookinglike multiple track speed changes
from all the way towards thebeginning of the day.
Well, really, no, only, onlyone sprint track speed change, but
a little bit more on the routes.
What about the retribution figof 87, does that comport with your

(42:24):
assessment of that horse's ability?
I mean, it fits with everybodyin there because it was kind of what
they were running other than 1900, who got involved in a really
strong pace.
You know, these paces in thesix furlong races at Pimlico are
tricky as well because there'sno run up, so, you know, it's hard
to.
It's hard to see.
Exactly.
Traditionally we see 46, youthink slow and you remember, oh,

(42:46):
there's no run up.
You know, they shade 23.
It's actually fast.
So I'm, I'm a little skepticalon a number of them.
But, you know, the good thingabout figs is ultimately we see them
play out.
And if you think you have aline on something that's different
from what, what has played outprior, then, you know, you, you can
make money that opinion.
You can take that opinion tothe windows and make some money if

(43:08):
you happen to be right.
I think that's all the time wehave, Nick.
Great stuff.
We'll have you back on soon.
Loads more coming on theYouTube channel especially.
But really appreciate youtaking time out of a Sunday to look
back at a very memorablePreakness Day card.
Very much enjoyed it, my friend.
Talk to you soon.
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(43:31):
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Great opportunities duringthis Churchill Downs meet.
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(43:52):
Twinspires.com PTF and JK backwith you on the in the Money Media
YouTube channel Preakness Takeaways.
We've got five of them andwe've got a lot more coverage.
Not just looking back at thepreakness on the YouTube channel,
but also great stuff.
Looking forward to the Belmont Stakes?
Make sure you do a couple things.
Subscribe to the channel.
That helps us out immensely.

(44:12):
New goal 14,000 subscribers byBelmont Stakes Day.
Also get involved in the conversation.
Let us know below what yourbiggest Preakness takeaways are.
We start with the master ofthe obvious.
JK Number one journalism is astud and I mean that literally.
Yeah, he was outstanding.
Like I look we watch a lot ofraces and I know how you felt.

(44:37):
We talked right after whenwhen he got into that trouble and
he finally came clear, helooked like there was a 0% chance
he was still going to get there.
And I watch a lot of races.
I know a lot of angles.
I know the depth perception.
I've felt it.
I've been excited, I've been disappointed.
I I know when a horse has achance and I thought he had zero
chance.
I actually turned and kind ofwalked away from the TV thinking,

(44:58):
here we go, this awesome horsegot this horrible trip.
And then I turned back aroundand he really started reaching and
within about four or fivejumps you're like, oh man, he might
actually make this close.
Two jumps later you're like,oh man, he's gonna win.
I I thought it was one of themost visually deceiving performances

(45:18):
in the terms of like where Ithought there's no way.
And then he got the in running betting.
That's a thing that exists internationally.
You can bet on these raceswhile they're happening on trading
screens like Wall Street.
Top price for journalism 159to 1.
I wouldn't have even taken it.
Let's move on to number two.

(45:39):
You talked about the trip, J.K.
i think we have to say this.
You know, watching live, Ithought maybe journalism and Rispoli
were victims of of goaloriented coming in on over on him
with repeated watches of the replay.
Talking to Nick Tamro inanother video.
I don't think that's right.
I think this is a case wherehe won despite the ride don't want

(46:00):
to be unfair to my countryman,Umberto Risoli, of whom I'm a big
fan, but maybe not one for,for his hall of Fame plaque, if you
know what I mean.
Look, if we, if, if we treatthis like a race on a Thursday at
Aquita and you're on an evenmoney shot, I'd actually say that
journalism was probably alittle bit less than even money shot.

(46:22):
He was probably 4 to 5.
But because it's PreaknessDay, you're getting a little extra
value.
You're on a 4 to 5 shot, anodds on horse.
Let's not try to get too cute.
Let's not try to.
Let's not try to go throughholes that maybe may or may not be
there.
You know, let's.
Let's take the overland route.
Let's stay in the clear with ahorse that we know is fit, we know
can finish, we know can getthe distance.

(46:44):
Let's not be so cute.
You know, it's one of thosesituations where if he goes around
all those horses, he wins byfive based on what we saw him do,
instead of winning by a half alength in a desperate situation,
one of the most desperatewe've ever seen.
Look, I, I appreciate the factthat Umberto wants to try to check
all the boxes in terms ofmaking sure he gives his horse the

(47:07):
best chance to win, but Ithink he's seeing it through the
wrong lens, thinking thattucking this monster in and saving
ground gives him his best chance.
He did it in the San DiegoDerby, too.
Let's just keep him in theclear and let him run.
That might be the strategycome Belmont at Saratoga.
We shall see.
Hopefully he ends up in thegate there.

(47:27):
It's going to be an amazing race.
Should we get Derby andPreakness winner facing off number
three Kentucky Derby?
Horses run pretty well in the Preakness.
They do.
They always do.
Now I'm a believer in let'sjust leave it like it is.
And that being the TripleCrown, sometimes you're going to

(47:48):
get horses that skip,sometimes you're not.
But that's what keeps itexciting, keeps it interesting.
The day after the Derby,you're waiting and hoping and anxious
that the Derby winner runs.
And when he does, you'reexcited and you have a week and a
half, two weeks of excitementleading up to it, and occasionally
you'll have one win and we'llbe drawing live for a Triple Crown.
And it might not happen everyyear, but I do think it is something

(48:09):
that we want to keep the samehorses run well back in two weeks,
if they ran well in the Derby,Their form is there.
Their form is there.
And.
And.
And I.
And.
And I, you know, and we'veseen it over and over and over again.
Sure, you could pluck a coupleof situations where that hasn't been
the case, but it's alsoquestioning how good some of those

(48:30):
horses that didn't show upactually were.
And maybe some individuals, itdoes take a lot out of them.
But I think as a whole, horsesthat run well in the Derby run well
in the pre.
I've been the great flipflopper on this issue of spacing
out the races, and I'm a bigbeliever that from a storytelling
point of view, here's the end goal.
I want.
I want the same horses runningin all three races.

(48:52):
And for a while, it's lookedto me like you have to move.
You have to move Muhammad tothe mountain.
But maybe it can be the other way.
Maybe the mountain could cometo Muhammad.
Maybe we can convince some ofthe trainers of this idea and incentivize
them financially.
Hey, these are the three racesyou need to run in.

(49:13):
These are the three daysestablished on the calendar that
get these massive handles.
What can we do to make youwant to run horses more in them?
Maybe that's the conversationwe need to have as far as moving
the races goes.
Yeah, but I also think that,like, there was 19 horses that ran
in the Derby.
I think maybe there was one ortwo that would have skipped the Preakness.
I think maybe if Baeza wouldhave won.

(49:34):
I can see John Sheriff's beingconservative and skipping.
Maybe if.
Sorry, you know, sovereigntyone, obviously he would have.
Journalism would have ran 100.
He would have ran.
Really.
And I think that.
That a horse like OwenAlmighty, who was fifth, would have
run.
You know, a horse like FinalGambit, who was fourth, I think probably
would have run.
You know, I think that there'scircumstances to it.

(49:56):
So let's not become tooresults oriented.
Let's go to our finalconclusion, our final takeaway from
the Preakness.
Jk, we have a heck of arivalry brewing on our hands now,
don't we?
Oh, I think we do.
It feels a little, you know,it's a little different, but it feels
a little Street Sense.
Curlin.
Right.
Street Sense won the Derby,came back in the Preakness, and Curlin

(50:18):
won.
Unfortunately, Street Sense didn't.
Didn't run in the Belmont.
But you're still getting thesetwo superstars.
Now we've got two superstars.
I would have loved to haveseen them run last weekend and be
alive for potentially a Triple Crown.
But now we're going to seethem Belmont Day where we're hopefully
going to have these twosuperstars running against one another
and that's exciting.
That's what the sport needs.
And I think that, thatalthough a Triple Crown would have

(50:41):
been great, I'll settle fortwo really good horses locking horns
and what could be anoutstanding Belmont Stakes.
You talk about rivalries, Ithink to my favorite of all time,
it's obviously a littledifferent, but the horse came up
in conversation around myhouse yesterday because Perrin was
saying, oh, do you thinkjournal with my 12 year old daughter,
do you think, do you thinkJournalism will go and, and win the

(51:02):
Belmont?
And wouldn't that be something?
He'd be like the modern daySunday Silence, she says to me.
Nailed it.
I've trained, I've trained herwell, let's face it.
But yeah, it does make youthink about those great rivalries
and how special racing is whenyou get to see it.
Not quite putting these two inthe Sunday Silence easygoer category
just yet, but wouldn't it besomething if they face off in Belmont

(51:25):
at Saratoga and then come backfor a race like the Breeders Cup?
There you have it folks.
Those are our takeaways forthis year's Preak Mistakes.
Make sure you subscribe to thein the Money Media YouTube channel
and leave us a comment withyour takeaways.
Today's show also brought toyou in part by in the Money plus.
And in the Money plus is agreat way to support our channel
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(51:47):
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(52:09):
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Newsletter and that's free.
Inthemoney podcast.com EmailLast but not least.
This is a man I met in theEddie Logan suite.
Oh gosh, it might have been 10years ago at this point.
I've enjoyed talking to him atthe races ever since, and when he

(52:32):
told me he was writing a book,I knew I wanted to have him on these
airwaves this is a book thatthe world needs.
It's called get off your phoneand start living a guide to lifelong
connections, friendships andpersonal fulfillment.
We encourage you to do just that.
Get off your phone.
But not until you're donelistening to this podcast, because
you're going to want to hearwhat Tom Reynolds has to say.

(52:55):
Tom, how are things?
I am great, Peter.
Thanks so much for having me on.
So where did the idea for thisbook come from?
How did this issue of ournational obsession with screen time
become something of enoughimportance to you that you wanted
to write about it?
Well, you know, for the lastthree or four years, when I was out

(53:16):
in public places enjoyingmyself, I would just look around
and see people just soconnected to some sort of electronic
device.
And I'll give, you know, I'llgive you a couple of examples.
Go to a sporting event, go toa concert, and all you see is people
on their phone.
They're missing theinteraction with the people in front
of them, next to them, behind them.

(53:38):
They're, they're so focused ontaking selfies and taking video and
posting things on, on socialmedia that they're really not enjoying
where they are and thecamaraderie and the whole purpose
of going into that event tobegin with.
And the worst example is, is restaurants.
I mean, people go out for afamily meal and I look around at

(54:01):
the two kids are on, you know,their iPads and the parents are on
their cell phones.
I'm like, you might as welljust stay at home.
You're missing the whole point.
And lest anyone listeningthink this is a get off my lawn type
argument, it's not.
And I know that for two reasons.
One is knowing Tom for a longtime, that's not his personality.
He's somebody out there whogenuinely wants to help other people.

(54:25):
But the other part of this isI've been very sensitive this having
a 12 year old daughter, done alot of reading.
I mean, the writer, my fellowBrooklynite, Jonathan Haidt, wrote
a terrific book at lengthcalled the anxious generation.
And it really tracks how thosepersonal feelings of isolation and
even depression, even in theworld, have gone up on a straight

(54:48):
line pretty much ever sincethe invention of these phones.
I don't think, Tom, you'resaying the phone has to be an evil,
but it's a tool.
And tools have times whenthey're needed and times when they
should stay in the box.
Do you think I'mcharacterizing your opinion correctly?
No, absolutely.
I mean, I put in the book, youknow, the cell phones are one of

(55:08):
the most productive tools everinvented, maybe even the, the most
productive tool ever invented.
But it's also veryunproductive in many, many ways because
instead of going out with yourfamily and having a conversation
and catching up on your dayand week, you're talking to strangers
thousands of miles away.
It just makes no sense.

(55:29):
And if you and I also put inthe book a few surveys, actually
there's a thing called theWorld Happiness Survey, believe it
or not.
And the US used to always belike in the top 10.
It's not the case anymore.
And unfortunately teenagers,they rank like in way, way, way down

(55:49):
versus other countries.
And it's just scary thatpeople aren't learning how to interact
with each other without havingto be on the phone.
You get into the prescriptionin the book and I certainly don't
want to give away the store.
I encourage people to, tocheck this out for themselves.
But I do want to ask you,broad strokes maybe about an example

(56:10):
that you brought up like, likethat concert, you know, and I'm a
good audience for you for this.
You, I'm there with my 12 yearold daughter.
I'm.
We're seeing the Rolling Stones.
I need visual evidence of this.
So what I tried to do and tellme if you like this idea was just
devote like in my mind, okay,I'm now going to take five minutes,

(56:31):
I'm going to get the picture,I need to document this.
And then the phone's goingaway and.
It'S not coming out again.
Is that, does that fit withyour philosophy?
Would you take it even further?
What do you think?
Absolutely.
I mean I give you manyexamples in the book, but go into
a nice ball game or a niceconcert, you know, you get to meet
people in front of you andbehind you and you should be dancing

(56:53):
and singing.
And I look around, people arejust on their phones like and I don't
know why people, every singleperson in the group has to bring
a phone with them, right?
I, I use the example of mygirlfriend, like we've got, we went
to dinner like twice a weekand have done for six plus years,
right?
She has never once taken herphone out because she doesn't have

(57:15):
it, she doesn't bring it with her.
And therefore I of course keepmy phone in my back pocket because
I'm not even putting it on the table.
Right.
We're there to enjoy ourselves.
And that's why I think it'sjust so important that lock the things
away because most people, theaverage person in the US is on their
phone over five hours a day,21% of their entire 24 hour period.

(57:43):
It's.
And for teenagers, right, it'seven higher.
And yeah, and you're evenconsidering sleeping time in that
stat.
So you think about a waking time.
That's terrifying.
Yeah, it's about a third ofthe waking time.
Yeah, it's, it's a little insane.
And I do think it disconnectsus in a way that, you know, especially
as a parent, makes me scared.

(58:05):
And you know, we, we, we'recarefully considering our digital
strategy.
She doesn't even have a phone yet.
Her friends are getting one.
So, you know, it's, it's oneof those things that, that comes
up.
But I, I feel pretty staunchlyalong the lines of, of the position
that you lay out in the book.
Let me ask you this.
Who did you write this book for?
Is it more for, Is it areminder for someone like me who

(58:29):
grew.
I was not a digital native.
Grew up in a world where therewas a lot more personal interaction.
But these days, especiallydoing what I do find it very tempted
to stay down that rabbit holeas, as much as the average person.
Or are you trying to write tothe younger generation or who maybe
never knew another way andsay, hey people, get your heads out

(58:51):
of the sand.
I think it's both.
I think it's generalpopulation, but then more specifically
targeted to the younger generation.
You know, for example, you andI had met, you know, many years ago,
right.
If you were on your phone andI was on my phone, we would have
never met.
Exactly.
Okay.
And you know, I'm fortunateenough to go out for the whole meet

(59:13):
in Delmar every summer.
Well, what we do is, you know,I put my phone in my back pocket
and I purposely, you know, betwith vouchers so we could go down
the paddock and talk to theushers and talk to the trainers and
talk to jocks and the securitypeople and obviously the tellers.
So, you know, I know like 40people's names on a, you know, first

(59:34):
name basis that work at the track.
If I was on my phone andbetting on my phone and ordering
food on my phone, I wouldnever met all these people who are
wonderful.
Yeah, no, it's a, it's a great point.
I mean, this is, to me, it'sthose personal contacts.
Sometimes, you know, you'renot in the mood or whatever, whatever.
But like, especially at aplace like Delmare, Racetrack's a
good example.
This is a chance to meetinteresting like minded individuals

(59:58):
and to be conscious of whatthe phone can do for you and can't
do for you.
That's probably going to leadyou to, to having those kind of thoughts
and making those distinctions,going to lead you to making some,
some better decisions andhopefully, as your subtitle says,
have more personal fulfillment.
I don't think that's an,that's exaggeration.

(01:00:18):
No, no, not at all.
And again, you could, youcould think about it in all the social
places.
Go to a gym nowadays.
You know, I've met many peoplein my apartment building in the gym,
but it takes a long timebecause people are again, so focused
on their phones.
I'm guilty.
I, I've got the podcast on.
I'm, I'm, I'll smile at you,but I don't speak well.

(01:00:41):
You know, I have to give it alittle bit of effort, right?
I mean, there's some effortinvolved and by the second or third
time they'll go, who's thiscrazy person who wants to talk to
me?
Right.
As opposed to being on myphone kind of thing.
And, you know, this apartmentbuilding I live in in Dallas, it's
very young, okay?
I'm probably the oldest personthat lives in the building.

(01:01:03):
But walking up and down thehalls, people hardly even say good
morning to you because they'reagain, you know what they're doing.
No, no, I get it.
It doesn't lead to a connected society.
One more general questionabout the book and then we'll talk
racing for a minute before Ilet you get out of here.
General question about the book.
What has been your favoritepart of this process so far of writing

(01:01:25):
a book?
Well, I, I'm a big believer inhaving a lot of hobbies.
Okay.
So over the winter there'sjust less things that I was involved
with.
So I was like, I'd really liketo, to just lay out this book, try
to get some sales.
It's obviously not a moneymaking proposition for me.
Right.

(01:01:45):
It's self published, if you will.
And I just wanted to get themessage like, hey, folks, get off
your phone, talk to the peoplenext to you.
Be nice to the people at TSAby having your boarding pass out
and not, you know, texting andtalking to people on their phones.
Movie theaters like, oh, andnever mind people on FaceTime and

(01:02:10):
on speakerphones in public.
I just, I, I don't understand that.
Right?
That's rude in anybody's book.
I have a chapter on FaceTimeand speakers and I tell stories and,
you know, I left off the oneswhere I almost came to fisticuffs
with people, but that one out.

(01:02:31):
Hopefully things don't get toopugilistic as far as, as far as that
goes.
It's a breezy read.
I love the, I love the message.
I love your, your message atthe end of the book too, where you
point out, hey, this is aninexpensive book.
If you've gotten something outof it, if you like it, if you're
with us at all, buy a copy andgive it to somebody else.
Has that message resonatedwith the audience?

(01:02:51):
Because I think it's animportant idea and I could see some
people within the sound of myvoice buying this book and then doing
just that.
Yeah, I've actually had anumber of people said, hey, I really
enjoyed your book.
And I, you know, I did buy acouple more books for either my kids
or my sisters or brothers.
Per.
The suggestion at the end ofthe book.

(01:03:11):
And it's very inexpensive.
I mean, even with, you know,sales tax, it's less than 10 bucks
on Amazon or Barnes and Noble.
So it's, you know, as I put itin the book, it costs less than a
glass of wine.
Right, Exactly.
Which you should enjoy talkingto the person next to you, not staring
at your phone.
Correct.
Right.

(01:03:31):
I'll put in that Amazon linkto buy the book in the show notes.
But you can, if one goes intoa bookstore, can this be ordered
and sent there as well?
Or is it, is it online only?
What would you advise as faras people buying?
Yeah, it's pretty much justonline, Peter.
Yeah, gotcha.
Well, Amazon, Barnes andNoble, there are probably independent

(01:03:52):
online booksellers as well.
Folks, check it out.
You have to do is really onAmazon, for example, just type in
my name and it pops up right away.
Perfect.
Get off your phone and start living.
I'll plug it again at the end.
But I do want to give you amoment here to congratulate your
some of your friends and someof your partners.
You are one of the firstpeople that I in real life met who
was a member of the EclipseThoroughbred Partners who of course

(01:04:15):
won a classic race this past weekend.
With journalism, not a horsethat you are in on, but I know you're
thrilled for the team.
I'm absolutely so over themoon thrilled.
What happened on Saturday?
What a race.
It was epic.
And I've been a partner withEclipse for I guess seven years now,
starting about 2018.

(01:04:37):
And it's just a wonderfulgroup of people.
The people that work full timefor Eclipse are phenomenal at what
they do.
We've surrounded ourselveswith terrific trainers like Michael
McCarthy and his whole team.
I've got about 50 horses withEclipse, you know, small percentage
of 50.
Right.
Primarily in California, butalso with Graham Motion.

(01:04:59):
And I could not be happier forthis group of people.
I know how hard they work.
I know the partners were thrilled.
I mean, I felt like I wasgoing to throw up at the 3:16 and
then 16 seconds later we'redancing and dancing and dancing and
high five.
And on this cruise that I'm aton the Mississippi as I talk to you

(01:05:22):
and you know, my whole family,you know, even though I don't have
a piece of the horse, myentire family from all over the world
were watching the race.
I just can't be happier forthis group of people.
Like the Eclipse folks just doa phenomenal job.
Tremendous.
I know you're a sharphorseplayer as well.
So next time you come on we'lldo a follow up visit, maybe have

(01:05:42):
you talk about some Del Mar.
We'll get an update on how thebook is going.
You'd be up for that?
I would love it.
Peter, thank you.
Awesome.
The name of the book is getoff your phone and start living a
guide to lifelong connections,friendships and personal fulfillment.
Tom Reynolds, thanks so muchfor being here today.
Thank you.
That's going to do it for thisedition of the show.

(01:06:03):
I'd like to thank Tom one more time.
Nick Tamro, Jonathan Kinshin.
Really appreciate thecontributions of all today's guests.
We'll thank our foundingpartners, 10 strike racing.
You know, around here we loveto root for the purple and black.
Also our charity partnerstherapeutic courses of Saratoga.
Learn more about the work theydo in the money podcast.com horses.
Most of all though, want tothank all of you, the listeners for

(01:06:25):
making these shows so much funto do.
This show's been a productionof in the money media.
I'm Peter Thomas Fornitel.
May you win all your photos.
I can go if I go.

(01:07:01):
Now.
You.
Just me and you.