August 20, 2025 • 64 mins
Navigating the Evolving HR Landscape: A Transatlantic Perspective
Join Leila McKenzie-Delis, founder and CEO of Dial Global, alongside industry leaders from Kearney, Pladis, MoCo Group, and consultancy firms in this enlightening webinar. Delve into the complexities of the evolving HR landscape, focusing on topics such as talent strategies, inclusion, equity, and resilience in a changing world. Hear insights on the profound impact of geopolitical tensions, technological innovations, and strategies to foster inclusive, diverse cultures.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good afternoon, good morning everyone.
Wherever you may be in theworld, welcome to a very special
webinar.
My name is LeilaMcKenzie-Dellis and I am the
founder and CEO of Dial Global,and we're hosting today's
webinar in partnership withAugust Leadership.
We're going to be talking aboutthe profound impact of this
(00:23):
evolving HR landscape.
We're calling the webinarNavigating the Evolving HR
Landscape a TransatlanticPerspective.
I'm joined, as you can see, bysome phenomenal guests, who I
will introduce in just a moment,and the idea of today's session
is that we want you to beexcited and empowered, yet, at
the same time, explore andunpack how some of this
(00:47):
uncertainty is reshaping thefuture of work.
As you've probably all seen,geopolitical tensions have been
rather high.
We've seen shifting economies,technological innovations
accelerating everything from HRto engagement, and leaders in
the main are under a pretty bigamount of pressure to be able to
(01:09):
adapt, and that's everythingfrom balancing risk mitigation
with inclusive people first,strategies that maintain
long-term corporate integrityright the way through to dealing
with crisis comms, and lookingat strategies to be able to
amplify current engagement andmaximize potential of people
(01:29):
within organizations and alsomaximize revenues as well.
Companies like the ones that wehave here and the leaders we
have here, remaining resilientin their long-term commitment,
which we'll be finding out muchmore about as we go through
today's session.
Let me take a moment tointroduce some of our fantastic
(01:51):
guests.
We have Stephen Parker, who ispartner and CHRO at Carney.
He has over 25 years worth ofexperience within the consulting
world.
He is a Brit living over thepond in the States.
He successfully led and grownhuman capital consulting
businesses for many years andwe're delighted to have him here
(02:13):
.
We also have Geraldine Fraser.
Geraldine is a titan ofindustry, has superb global
experience, currently ChiefHuman Resources Officer for
Pladis Global.
You may know them better asbeing owners of McVitie's and
Ulka and many of the othersnacking brands.
She was formerly the CPO forFriesland Campina, a global FMCG
(02:37):
organisation.
We also have Catherine Lynch,fci PD.
Catherine has a plural role.
She is non-exec and non-co andrem co-chair, as well as also
being chief people officer forMobico Group PLC, based in the
UK, a FTSE 250 organisation.
(02:59):
And, last but never least,marie SotoSaunders, a chief
people officer with somebrilliant global expertise,
formerly MD for People andTalent for CVC Capital Partners,
large scale private equityorganisation, and American
living here in the UK.
So a great group we have hereWithout further ado, I'm going
(03:23):
to intro our very first guest,Stephen.
I'm going to come to you to openup the session no pressure here
, of course to tell us a littlebit about what you are seeing.
You know Carney's at theforefront and has been very
(03:46):
positively proactive in itsdiversity, inclusion, culture,
people, engagements, but reallegitimacy in this space.
Talk to us a little bit aboutsome of the key trends that you
believe organisations should bepaying immediate attention to if
they are really serious aboutbuilding inclusive, resilient
cultures.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Thanks, leila, really happy to be here.
When you and I chatted aboutthis a few weeks ago, it was a
good pause actually.
As we were chatting, I listedonce again which is helpful all
the topics going on and, as Isaid to you, it sort of amazed
me because I kept thinking backto February, when the change in
government happened in America,and then just thought, ok, we
will be spending the rest of ourquarter year defending
(04:28):
strategies inside the AI,because it just seemed an
onslaught.
And we still are.
And yet since then, you know,we're in 40-odd countries.
So you know we've had Ukraine.
We have an office in Kiev andit's small.
You know we've been supportingthem and then the last months
they think, okay, it's over, theworld isn't going to support
them.
Many of the world has comeforward.
We've got immigration andtravel.
(04:49):
You know we have people all ourcolleagues have family members
who have genuine concerns aboutfriends, family.
They might be under pressure,or even the practical Like.
We have people that were due tocome here as part of mobility
transfers and now we can't getvisas.
We have tariffs and theuncertainty of what they mean
and it's producing so mucheconomic uncertainty that
(05:10):
everyone's now pausing.
You get this sort of decision,paralysis.
And then, of course, constantwas AI, which was very pertinent
to, I think, my HR team.
Biggest question they all hadis everything from how are we
going to get better at this?
To are we going to be replacedby it?
How are we going to get betterat this to?
Are we going to be replaced byit?
How are we going to support ourcolleagues?
That was a completely differentlist from the list we might
(05:30):
have started with in January.
So I started thinking aboutthis when you said, like, what's
important if you're going tobuild a resilient culture and
there's a couple of things thatwe've, I think, done well to
focus on just in the last threemonths to try and build on what
we have been doing One is not toignore that your own HR team
needs to be resilient, becausethey're being hammered left,
right and center on some ofthese topics.
They're expected to be experts,expected to be resilient.
(05:52):
It's a bit like the middle ofCOVID, you know, put your own
oxygen mask on first.
So we've been working hard toreach out to our diverse team
and colleagues to make sure thatthey feel supported.
We've been working hard to notget caught up in grand policy
statements because you knowthey're kind of helpful, they
(06:13):
give people reassurance butusually only for about 20
minutes and then they doubtbecause they see stuff happening
around them to say, well, whatdid they mean?
And it's very hard to write aglobal policy when you policy,
when DEI is under attack to acertain extent in America and
yet we have countries where it'spart of their law, where we
(06:34):
have to measure, in the kingdomof Saudi Arabia and South Africa
to take part in business there.
So we have to be very careful.
So we sort of said, okay, whatcan we do that's practical, that
actually helps individuals thatfeel their livelihoods
threatened, that feel frightenedto go to different client
settings to travel, avoid abouttheir futures.
So we're trying to sort ofdouble down what real support,
what real action can we do?
(06:55):
And then how to make thecommunication from leaders a
little bit more one-to-one and alittle bit more constant, so
that it's more of a dialogue,the best you can, and not just
loading everything as if our CEOor managing partner is going to
just make a series of grandpronouncements that feel good
(07:16):
but are hard to figure out howthey apply in every country,
because we might say somethingto say look, we are going to
defend our need for diversityall over the world because we
need greater diversity in ourtalent pool totally, and we know
that in order to do that youhave to have an inclusive
culture, Otherwise they allleave.
(07:36):
You work so hard to get peopleto join and then they figure out
oh that was it, that's whereall your efforts ended.
But I'll be honest with you,we've got to be careful in how
we say that in certain countriesbecause we follow the law, but
in other countries that justdismays them.
So one of the interestingtrends in the last month I've
noticed is our Americancolleagues are sort of fully at
(07:57):
the front line and we're workingreally hard to do practical
impact to improve diversity andimprove inclusion.
But the rest of the world can'tsee it and they're sort of
worried and dismayed becausethey know that in the past this
country where I live now and acitizen of, has been at the
(08:18):
forefront of doing the bestthings.
And now we mightn't be.
And I think we've beenencouraging some of our other
colleagues around the world tosay well, let's start to get
good practices, talk what you'redoing, you know, don't just get
dismayed because you're notsure.
But the biggest sort of wave ofquestions has come from outside
the US, because they're sort ofnervous and worried, not sure,
(08:43):
and then the final thing we'vebeen doing is, of course, trying
to rely on our values.
It's not perfect, but at leastif you have values that you
believe have some credibility,then they're a touchstone to say
look, trust us, which we'vebeen able to do, and people will
disagree, but at least we'retrying to have a discussion
about it and not force it, youknow, underground.
(09:03):
So yeah, the trends are hard toread.
You know it's sort of each weekthere'll be something else
emerging.
But the big one for me is howto sort of equip and take care
of my own HR leaders, who can bethen role models, and then how
do they take care practically ofthe people around them with
something that's real andhelpful as opposed to just a
(09:25):
policy.
So pause.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Stephen, thanks so much for that, and I think um
really pertinent from whatyou've said is, yes, the trends
are hard to read, but ultimatelythis is very much about trust,
it's about long-term credibility, it's about sustainability.
Um, and HR frankly does not getagain sounding a little biased
here, but HR does not get thecredit in which it is due
because, actually, it props up alot of the time.
(09:53):
The organisation is a strategicpartner to the CEO and wider
organisation.
It is one that really does needoxygen to make sure it's being
looked after, because you findthen that a whole number of
things end up going down andemployer brand and integrity is
(10:17):
absolutely central to that.
Which leads me nicely on toGeraldine.
Geraldine, if I may bring you inhere off the back of the
picture that Stephen has painted, being over in America from the
(10:38):
Wirral, more specifically,actually over in the States,
geraldine has just come in fromChina and has a very
international background andworking for Pladis, which is a
global leader in snacking, it'sreally doubling down on its
efforts, which I think is keygiven that we want consumer
(10:58):
confidence as well.
Geraldine, talk to us a littlebit about how Pladis are
doubling down on theircommitment to DEI and perhaps
some of the advice that youmight offer organisations that
want to maintain that strongsense of belonging from their
(11:21):
people, especially at a timewhen we're seeing some
organisations sidestepping fromsome of their DEI efforts.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Yeah, sure, and thanks Leila, and thank you
Stephen, because I think, asStephen said, it's a sensitive
topic at the moment and it'stricky territory at the moment
and it's tricky territory but Ithink you know we have a
governance board.
So I think that is one piece ofadvice, I guess.
So I think one of the things wewanted to be sure of within
(11:56):
Pladis is that we didn't getcaught up in all our own
opinions and kind of go downthat group think route.
So we have an independent board, advisory board on inclusion,
diversity and equity, who keepus kind of honest and also
create, bring best practice, butalso keep a certain
consciousness around.
(12:16):
You know what we're doing onIDE and it was actually with
that board that we decided wehad the confidence and the
ambition to stay the course onIDE.
So I think, where you can bringin that external counsel and
external perspective, I wouldstrongly recommend, because
otherwise you have to giveyourself courage.
Sometimes you need other peopleto give you courage and the IDE
(12:39):
board played that well for us.
But I think for us, if I thinkabout IDE and I think Stephen
kind of alluded to it as well ifyou break down all the
component parts of IDE and if Ilook at the feedback that we get
from our employees and fromleaders, et cetera, when we do
(12:59):
diagnostic surveys, I think it'sthe things where you have
targets and where you have whichcan be interpreted as quotas
are the areas that don't.
It's a topic that doesn'talways land well because it
starts to feel like unfair,although the intent was always
(13:21):
about improving fairness andimproving accessibility and
equity.
So actually, for us, at theheart of that discussion is
around inclusion, and it's hardto debate why dignity at work,
respect at work, are not goodcultural norms in any
(13:41):
organisation and in a worldwhich may feel even more divided
at some point at the moment.
Having that sense of belongingthrough your work or through
your organisation and a sense ofcommunity, because in the end,
an organisation is a microcosmof society, isn't it?
It is a community, so it canonly be a good thing.
So it may feel subtle, but Ithink switching the narrative to
(14:04):
being around inclusion firstand then what does that mean for
us, was a real change that wemade.
So, for example, if I, we dohave targets around women in
leadership, but the origin ofthat was that were we being
inclusive enough for our femalepopulation.
That was the origin of thethinking not, oh, we must have
(14:25):
targets.
And that led us to say,actually, some targets will help
us to bring more inclusion forour female population.
So I think that element aroundinclusion, being at the heart
and thinking what does that meanfor you as an organization, has
really helped us and helped usto be able to really think about
(14:45):
, you know, say, whatever thecommunities that we have,
whether it's LGBTQ community orwhether it's our female
neurodivergent communities, etc.
And it's helped us to be ableto have a broader, more engaging
conversation with individualswhere they all feel included in
that dialogue, rather thancalling out specific groups, and
(15:07):
that has been really useful forus.
So we have put indisproportionate effort behind a
life transitions policy, forexample, for all employees as
they experience parenthood, andthat gives extra leave for the
main caregiver, support,caregiving, return to work,
(15:30):
benefits, et cetera.
And that has really built ourstory around inclusion and
really gets to the core of thechallenge, which is around how
can we embrace everyone as we goon this journey of IDE.
But, as Stephen also said, itcan be tricky because at some
(15:50):
point what can you say and whatcan't you say, and so in the
States it can be delicate at themoment, but at the same time in
Europe we have to prepare forpay transparency, which is at
the raw end of the equity debate.
So you're doing both withinyour organisation, but if you're
(16:13):
doing it with integrity andyou're doing it with the right
level of authenticity and withthe right intent, I believe you
can find a way.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Geraldine, I love that you have focused in a lot
on the, the trust piece, theauthenticity piece I'm already
seeing a slight trend emerginghere from yourself and Steve.
But in particular, transitionpolicies I just think are
absolutely wonderful, and thenod to intersexuality, because
(16:51):
at the end, most of us, all ofus, go through various different
transitions within life.
(17:14):
You know, certainly myself atthe moment being not too far off
, you know, giving birth to twosecond little little boys.
Definitely feeling you knowthat that it's going to be
another chapter and knowing thatyou have employers and brands
who are really sticking to theirguns when it comes to looking
(17:40):
after people and recognizing the, the care piece, and the return
to work benefits to retaintalent.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Yeah, it's a huge amount, yeah and I think, leila,
it has landed so well, um, thatnow we're looking at the next
phase of life transitions, wherewe've asked employees what we,
what they think, what, whatshould that be?
And I've said care care foreither family members or care
(18:09):
for parents or people incaregiving responsibility, and
how do they balance that withwork.
So that's what we'll pursuenext to see what does that mean
in terms of creating anorganisation where people feel
they can be their best but theyalso have a level of support.
(18:30):
Um, so that's our ambition andit's it's working.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
It's working well so far excellent um, and, if you
haven't already seen, there weresome brilliant articles.
I saw one, I think it was inthe grocery, and then we have
one in the retail times as well,where you were quoted around
the importance of brands and theimportance how the brands have
been part of people's lives aswell, and it is.
(18:55):
It's really that evolution oflife journey, the brands that we
remember and the you know,these life transitions which all
of us have been through, andwhen it touches the heart and
soul, then it really does make adifference, much as we also, as
business leaders, love data andstats and all of those kind of
other things.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Yeah, perfect, I know , that's right, that's right
Sorry, thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
And a perfect pivot.
Now from yourself, Geraldine,to another brilliant leader of
talent, Murari.
Murari, I'm going to comeacross to yourself, if I may.
Murari has a brilliantbackground.
I know I keep pointing this out, but we've got such a great
(19:44):
international panel here, itjust fills me.
Rari is an American living inthe UK, formerly was MD and
Chief Talent for CBC, but isdoing a lot within the HR and
people space.
Rari, talk to us a little bitabout the background, I guess,
(20:09):
and what you're seeing in, to anextent, the investment
landscape, as I think it isimportant here to recognise that
diverse inclusion, belongingequity culture.
It comes in many forms and thatis also how we invest in
everything from minority,minority, female led
(20:34):
organizations right the waythrough to talent.
Can you talk to us about yourapproach, what you're seeing
when it comes to talentstrategies and also any of the
trends in investment?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Absolutely.
First and foremost, it's funny.
I do have.
I am American, living in London, but my kids have British
accents because they're British.
So we live in a funny householdof many accents.
And the other thing I was goingto say is congrats, leila.
I know you're going to be anamazing mom of two.
If I can do it, you mostcertainly can, so I'm excited
(21:06):
for you.
I think you know, when it comesto the space, the investment
space, private equity andventure capital and right now
I'm working actually with someearly stage companies, so this
comes up a lot.
So in the VC and the PE space,I think it's important to note
that there's a dualresponsibility.
(21:28):
There's the responsibility thatyou have internally and there's
the responsibility that youhave for your portfolio.
And I'll lend on Stephen andGeraldine's brilliant points.
One of you know taking care ofyour house right, making sure
your HR people I think in theprivate equity space that lands
(21:51):
well.
You have to.
And in the VC space, you haveto know where you stand on EDI,
where you stand on how you wantto represent yourself and take
care of your people and thethings that come up for your
people.
And then, when it comes to theportfolio bit and I think
Geraldine touched on this a bitwith when it comes to brands
(22:14):
right and their own identity isgiving them the space to build
that identity whilst at the sametime, being clear about where
you are on how you approach thisstrategy.
And I will say, one of thethings that is sadly lost in
translation and I'm not going tolie, I kind of sometimes wish I
(22:35):
had my children's accent,because it is not.
It is probably one of the mostembarrassing times to have my
own accent, which makes me sad.
I love being American, but itis, you know, it is.
It is a time, we're in a time.
But, with that being said, Ithink when I look at EDI, when I
(22:57):
look at whatever DEI, howeveryou want, whatever acronym you
want to use, what I feel that isultimately lost in translation
is that it is a talent strategy.
That is what it is.
You know it's a talent strategy.
That is what it is.
It's a talent acquisition,talent development, and
Geraldine touched on this withsome of her programs, but it is
(23:17):
about inclusion.
It is about creating safe,productive, efficient and
welcoming work environments, andwe have that as a task.
To break down a little bit morein terms of the investment side.
So, if you look at it, fromwhat is the VC, private equity
responsibility?
Internally versus externally,and externally we'll call that
(23:40):
the portfolio group, butinternally, I think, continuous
collaboration and investmentswith programs such as Level 20
and SEO, because historicallyboth private equities and VCs
are not known to be spaces thatwere created for people that are
in the underrepresented talentcategories.
(24:02):
So those programs Level 20, seoallow for there to be not only
investment at the junior stateof the person's career, but
investment into entry into theprivate equity and the VC space.
The second piece and this is alittle bit of a hybrid between
both, in some cases it dependson the size of the organization,
but a role that I believe has alot of impact around EDI and
(24:30):
value creation is the talentpartner roles.
So the roles that focus on boththe portfolio functions as well
as the internal, and they havea way of influencing not only
innovation into their functionsin terms of how they go about
hiring, market mapping andlooking for talent, but they
also have a way of creatingprograms that bring portfolio
(24:54):
companies together as thinktanks and thought leadership
groups so that they can hold aposition, if they want to, but
also debate some of the thingsthat they're experiencing in the
port coast and they know thatthey're supported by the company
that owns them.
So one of the programs I workedon in the past was effectively
(25:18):
like a lunch and learn where allof the port coasts come
together we talk about in thisparticular one.
We're talking about thematurity model in DEI and what
were some of the practices andideas that work for certain
kinds of companies.
And I think when people seethat some of these challenges
(25:39):
are agnostic, right, they findways and they borrow from each
other on how to work on theseparticular issues.
And I think again, going back toand I hate to repeat this, but
I just think it's important.
So, going back to the fact thatthis is a talent strategy from
the seat of the VC, in theprivate equity bit, I think the
(26:00):
piece that is probably mostimportant is the recognition
that not only is it a talentstrategy, but it's a talent
strategy that has to be embeddedinto your investment thesis.
It has to be embedded into yourvalue creation plan.
So when you think about whoyour clients are and in this
case it would be the LPs and theinvestors right is holding some
(26:27):
space, from some accountabilityfrom that group of people,
embedding these talentstrategies and these processes
in that accountability for thatgroup of people.
And lastly and I think this partis also has already been
touched on, but there is, interms of the VC in the PE space,
on the internal employee bit,the other bit that I see that
(26:50):
really really works well is whenpeople have structured strong
EDI committees and have ERGsthat are sponsored and supported
by senior members of theorganization, and that not only
lends and opens voices forpeople who are underrepresented
within those organizations, butit gives you again a
(27:15):
well-rounded view of what isimportant on your investment
side of the business, what'simportant on one side of the
globe versus another.
And again it ties it back intothat value creation piece and
that innovation, because there'smassive potential.
Well, and it is the case, butin a lot of VC and private
(27:38):
equity spaces there's a lot ofpotential to have a lot of
innovation, a lot of creativity.
There is diversity in howpeople invest, in how they carry
on with their business, thekind of companies that they
attract, and so if that is tiedtogether, that's that's sort of
where you have like the bestworld possible it's super
(28:01):
interesting when you talk aboutdiversity of investment and it's
like a whole.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I mean maybe we should do another webinar on
this is how wealth is createdand the power of different,
diverse communities and theinvestments they make, because
that in and to itself isabsolutely fascinating.
But, to your point, lots of thechallenges that we're seeing
and lots of the transferablemethodologies that we're trying
to learn from one another rightnow and organizations are now
(28:31):
and organisations are the bestinnovations often come from
sector agnostic challenges,because I think organisations in
certain sectors can at timesget a little bit stuck in their
ways, whilst we obviously canidentify certain trends.
But I really like the way thatyou talk about talent very
specifically being key.
I mean, from a talent mappingperspective, we are seeing a lot
(28:51):
of, say, chief diversity rolesbeing mapped in with chief
diversity and talent and talent,as everyone has identified, is
absolutely core and centre ofmany of the organisational
growth strategies.
So thank you for many of thosepertinent points.
(29:13):
And again, perfect segue to comeacross to Catherine, because
whilst we're talking and you'vetalked a lot Ari investment, the
import of talent from withinorganisations and also
attracting talent, catherine,you have portfolio career now as
(29:34):
well as obviously being chiefK-listed PLC.
It would be great now to moveus into the world of the
non-executive and the boardbecause, of course, a lot of
decisions influenced by theboards that we have serving our
(29:54):
organisations.
You and I have spoken candidlybefore about you know, often you
being the only woman on a boardand being in the minority.
It would be great for you tounpack a little around your
thoughts around diversity andinnovation within boards, and
you know perhaps some of thestrategies that you might
(30:15):
implement to make more space forwomen and not only to be more
representative on boards, butalso for there to be greater
equity through this as a talentstrategy yeah, thank you, leila.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
Good afternoon, good morning everybody, and hopefully
going last, I get to draw someof the threads together from my
esteemed guest panellists.
So I sit on the board as aRemco and Nonco chair of an aim
listed recruitment and trainingcompany here in the UK, and I've
done that for now four and ahalf years.
And what's interesting is,mireille, from your experience
(30:51):
as an investor, a talent officer, my first interaction with
institutional investors as theRem chair was to face into a
panel of eight men from Fidelityin 2021, who, interestingly,
because I was the only woman onthe board, were very upset by
(31:11):
the lack of representation.
I mean, there were only fourboard members at the time, so I
was 25 percent of that, but theywere very keen to have an
additional board member femaleboard member and yet they voted
against me at my first AGMbecause I had a three year LTIP
holding period, not a five year,and it went across their red
(31:32):
line from an investmentperspective.
So oh, the irony that they werein one hand, telling us we
didn't have enoughrepresentation and then they
voted against the one woman thatthey had because of a REM
policy conflict.
So I did find that a bit of aninteresting one, and that's a
bit of an interesting one.
And, look, I would never be ina situation where I would have a
(32:13):
talent strategy that was all,had a really good DE and I
pedigree, and so I think as CPOspotentially chief HR officers
we can be quite influential andas board members in making sure
you select the right partner.
For a start, the second thingwas insist on a 50-50 shortlist
(32:34):
and therefore you're giving theopportunity to bring, but
ultimately, of course, select,the best.
Now I did actually select alady called Amanda Aldridge who
joined me at Staffline two yearsago and I worked with her as a
very close partner and she'sterrific.
But to your point, Leila, aboutmaybe something a little bit
(32:54):
more innovative, because there'snothing really unusual in what
we did there at Starfline.
When I was at Accenture PLC as achief people officer, the chair
there, very forward thinking,created a new role on the board
called a board trainee and hiredsomebody from a diverse
(33:14):
community and gave not just theopportunity for social and
economic diversity, ethnicdiversity, but also age
diversity, to bring a differentperspective to the board, and I
thought that was fantasticallysmart because we got a voice of
a different generation, a voiceof a different background and
they got an education in how topotentially progress to being a
(33:37):
board member.
Two years on, that board memberwas converted to a
fully-fledged paid NED and theystill serve on the board there
today.
So I've taken the best practicefrom what we did there and
we'll look to replicate thathere at Mobico to create real
value and actually givesomething back to a community,
(34:00):
particularly giving womenopportunities to join boards who
wouldn't necessarily otherwiseand actually can speak quite
passionately, because I've seenit work in practice.
So a couple of points therethat I hope are useful, leila.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Very useful indeed and I think it's one of the
questions that I'm often askedby C-suite and those who are
looking to further their careers.
Because ultimately, you know,what I know all of us are
passionate about is how do weallow diverse talent to thrive,
or talent from whateverbackground to be able to thrive
without blockers.
And a big part of it, to yourpoint, is, you know, how do you,
(34:46):
yes, send the lift back downand give that opportunity, but
also how do we continue toidentify talent and help it up
those lofty, you know,hierarchies of you know, either
a getting into the C-suite or,if you are at C-suite, looking
at potentially the portfoliocareer, because it does often
(35:07):
take the first chance almost tobe given before then others come
from that, and it was a lot ofquestions actually that were
asked pre this session wasadvice on joining boards and
C-suite becoming more endowedinto that kind of that portfolio
(35:30):
type career.
So I wonder whether I couldjust um flip again back to you
any thoughts on that before wekind of open up the floor um to
some questions um and geteveryone talking kate.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
Um, kate in the chat has actually asked me a question
about did the board traineehave full voting rights?
Um, yes, they absolutely didthey.
They, they didn't take a fee,they were expenses only because
it was very much in that first12 months, a development
opportunity.
They were mentored andsponsored by the chair who
absolutely led and, and,interestingly, as a an older and
(36:07):
um white experienced gentleman,um, and and I think again that
was one of the things I wantedto draw out, you know it's
getting as an older and white,experienced gentleman and I
think again that was one of thethings I wanted to draw out you
know it's getting the men tosponsor some of these.
It's not an unknown, it's notso much us women we try and do
an awful lot for others in ourown community but it's getting
(36:27):
the men to actually sponsor andmentor and promote those
opportunities.
But that's now a rollingprogramme.
So the chair will continue toevery 12 months, rotate and give
an opportunity, obviously not apermanent role, because that
would need to complete a fullterm of three years potentially
(36:47):
or even go on to do the six andnine, complete a full term of
three years potentially or evengo on to do the six and nine.
But it's certainly a reallygood practice and I know one
that other organizations areadopting and it's becoming more
common.
But in terms of your question,leila, you know getting
opportunities and getting people.
I personally think you know.
Look at where you can add value.
(37:07):
So, if you're a retailerthrough and through approach
boards in your space where youcan add value.
So if you're a retailer throughand through approach boards in
your space where you can addsubject matter expertise In my
case, I was approached forsomething in recruitment and
training, so it was a subject Iknew plenty about.
So whilst I was a rookie NEDfour and a half years ago, they
(37:27):
knew that I could come to thetable and confidently understand
the industry, understand whatthe business was doing and go
from that perspective of being aleader in that space and
bringing that value to the board.
So my advice is be proactive,but also think carefully when
you're targeting opportunitiesas to what it is those
(37:49):
organizations need and where youcould add value.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
I'll hand back Leila Brilliant.
Thank you, catherine.
I'm seeing and please do, don'tbe shy everyone, it's a
friendly group here.
Please do tap in the chat or Isee that there's messages coming
through privately as well, soplease do go ahead.
We have got 10, 15 minuteswhere we'll be kind of now
fielding some questions.
(38:14):
But, catherine, we've seen acouple of responses here and
some people who have clearly hadsome benefit from listening to
you all.
Someone here on the sportsboard I think this is Kate also
saying that she's going to nowrecommend that we go for a
trainee board role, which Ithink is fantastic.
How do we give opportunity totalent?
But, equally, how do we ensurethat that is a?
(38:36):
You know, it's a growth driverfor the organisation.
You know, one reflection that Ihave is looking at these
different groups of talent,whether they be boards, whether
they be employee resource groupsor staff networks, as they're
often called Powerfulcommunities, because within
these communities there'sopportunities to learn and grow
(38:58):
more and also to give theseexamples as personal development
progression points, takingemployee resource groups just as
one community as an example,but it's often a voluntary
community.
It's incredible how many peopleare in these communities.
One of our clients we work withVerizon.
(39:21):
They have 25,000 people intheir employee resource groups
and you think, wow, that'sbigger than many organisations
and that is the power ofvolunteering.
But you think, in thesecommunities, where might one get
the opportunity to lead or beat the helm of, to have that
feedback loop into what are verysenior individuals within the
organisation?
Otherwise, catherine, youtouched on allyship and, stephen
(39:42):
, I'm going to come across toyou, since you opened us up and
as the male in the minority onour panel, I would like to put
you on the spot, but in a verypositive light, because you are
a fantastic ally and I trulymean that it's.
Every time we have aconversation you are there, um,
you know saying, look, what canwe do more?
And I know that you mean ittalk to us a little bit about
(40:03):
kind of allyship, whilst we umcollate some of these questions
here, because that is critical,no point.
As, uh, women, um, you knowpreaching to the converted, um,
and and sitting around you knowmoaning about what could be and
all these kind of things,whereas actually we ought to
bring great men and everyonealong the journey yeah, yeah, no
(40:26):
it's.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
We've tried to focus on this for a few years.
I wouldn't say or claim thatwe're brilliant at it.
There's a couple of.
We were first of all trying tosay look, your political views
(40:48):
or any views on anythingshouldn't matter, because what
we're trying to do is to bringin greater talent to our firm,
not ignore giant pockets of theworld if we didn't do it well,
and to have an inclusiveapproach.
So they wanted to stay andperform.
So it's, of course, in America.
Come into a sharper examination, because really what's under
(41:08):
attack is this sense of oh, it'snot a meritocracy and therefore
there's some hidden advantageand therefore I'm disadvantaged.
Look, we've never, believedthat.
But we said, look, we have todouble down on.
This has always been ameritocracy.
We try our best.
It might be flawed.
So this is simply all we'retrying to do is to oil our
(41:28):
meritocracy better and to makesure that when we can bring in
the most diverse talent,everybody has a shot at this
meritocracy can bring in themost diverse talent.
Everybody has a shot at thismeritocracy.
Therefore, allyship is crucialbecause if there's tons of us,
then it feels more natural to beourselves.
If you don't look likeeverybody else or feel like or
(41:52):
feel you belong, then you mightneed more conversations,
dialogue so that you canunderstand how it works.
The second thing that we'vetried to make sure people
realize, especially on men we'vedone we've had like inclusion
and allyship training for awhile is it's different from
coaching.
Coaching might be an essentialpart of it, but it's not
sufficient, because then it justsounds like me giving tips.
(42:13):
Good luck, you know.
Here's how I got here.
Here's's what you should do.
Perfect, no, you have to putsomething at risk.
You know it's about politicalcapital.
You know Geraldine andCatherine are both talking about
it.
We have a way to influence in afair way, just to make sure
that we have diverse talentpools, that someone understands
how the processes work to getpromoted, to get selected, that
(42:36):
they feel that their voice canbe included.
And that's been a big one,because I think for many years
people thought mentorship wasvague.
Support, general support.
And you know we've had lots ofconversations with our
partnership to say, look, ifyour answer is just to clap when
we talk about this, thatactually you're part of the
(42:57):
problem, because we need morethan clapping, we need people to
do something, otherwise wewon't nudge the dial at all in
our challenge to look more likeour clients, to look more like
our communities.
And then the final piece is youknow, not everyone realizes
what's the start of sentence.
You know, if it's a vague setof leadership skills, yes, I'm
(43:21):
going to be a driver of allyship, but what on earth does that
look like?
So we tried to break it down insmall groups leadership
training.
What's the sentence?
That you can start aconversation with someone that's
not like you.
That might give them a sensethat you could be an ally and
help and bring some real, notmore than coaching and guidance,
(43:41):
but help the firm make betterdecisions.
But it's a work in progress.
We have to repeat it, and we'rerepeating it even more in the
US, because we have to be reallyclear.
This is about meritocracy.
We still need diversity andinclusion.
We're not going to battlesomeone else's definition of the
word equity, which has becomethe real flashpoint, because we
want to do good work and wethink the work is in.
(44:04):
Still, how do we supportdiverse populations coming to
our firm?
How are we inclusive and how dowe act as allies so they don't
feel then marginalized and leaveand then we have to start again
?
So there's a few thoughts.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Thanks ever so much, stephen.
And action is the key word.
I love that you used moving thedial as well.
It's like right on brand.
I will not tell everyone thatyou were paid Joking, joking, um
, and I'm asking those that Irecognize the names of, not
(44:42):
because I'm not including others, but I recognize lots of great
names here.
Um, I can see um nihiraka hasasked a question.
I'm seeing if my tech skillswill allow me to um ask if um
nihikara would like to ask thislive, but I am not sure quite
how to do that, so I'm going toread it out.
(45:03):
We have.
Oh, let me find the questionhere, and this is a question to
everyone how would you bestsuggest this tricky market
environment where DEI is beingas anti-woke term I think can be
(45:24):
anti-woke terminology, thoughwe are always working towards
approaching it with talent,leadership, development, career
progression, elements, powerfulelements and also thank you very
much for a powerfulconversation.
Um, I, who might like to takethis, can see, geraldine, you've
been nodding intensely.
(45:44):
Um, as I have to put you on thespot here, can I come across
here to to you with some?
Um?
Essentially, we are seeing alot of this kind of anti-work
sentiment.
You know you are brilliant whenit comes to leadership, talent
(46:05):
development.
I'm not just saying this tobutter you up.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
You really are, and you've worked for lots of global
organizations, so perfectlypoised to answer thoughts yeah,
I, I think, um, uh, yeah, it alldepends on the organization, of
course, and and what'ssensitive and what's not
sensitive?
Now, so in in our case, forexample, um and I absolutely get
(46:29):
the question, but we've justappointed a new managing
director in the states for ourAmerican operation Starts in a
couple of days, and one of thethings he's most proud of was
what he did around IDE at hisprevious employer at Coke, and
we decided to put that into theannouncement, the public
(46:53):
announcement that went externaland internal, that we were
really proud of that.
That wasn't the reason, justthe only reason, why he was
employed, but it was somethingthat he wanted to put down as a
career achievement.
So I think there is somethingabout you know.
A suggestion is perhaps youcontinue on the course that
(47:15):
you're on, but a more subtleapproach.
I think one of the other thingsthat you can do is look at all
the proof points for DEI in yourorganisation, and that might be
everything from office design,whereby you want to consult with
neurodiverse employees aroundnoise levels and space and
(47:36):
lighting, right through to allof your talent processes.
So what are all the touchpoints where DEI feels like it
comes to life and it's part ofthe employee experience.
And mapping all of that meansthat actually you're looking at
recruitment or promotion orcareer conversations, or the way
in which you advertise or allof the different things it could
(47:59):
be around policy, et cetera,and actually you just do it
subtly, you just bring, you know, dei into the way in which you
operate because I think you know, as Marari said, it is often
that this is about talent andhow you manage talent, and I
think there are many, many proofpoints and everything that you
(48:22):
do in the employee experiencethat you can bring to life,
without necessarily dei beingthe only talking point, that can
be another way in thanks verymuch, geraldine.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
um maria, seen you've just popped up on screen and I
also love that everyone'ssending all these little emojis,
so lots of little hearts aregoing up that Geraldine was
speaking so clearly.
This is excellent.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Marari, I think.
By the way, geraldine, yourpoints were amazing and one of
the things I'm reading thequestions and one of the things
that I find lately with the workthat I'm doing now as a
consultant is I don't know ifI'm speaking to the converted
and one of the things to keep inmind with these conversations
(49:04):
so forgive me if I mispronounceyour name, I think it's Niharika
, I don't know in terms of yourorganization and the governance
structure where you can addinfluence, where you can add
power, where you can add voice,but one of the things about this
time and this kind of mergesinto a question that came for
(49:24):
Stephen and I how do you keepbalance in your approach, in
equity, when straddling the UKand the US and the legal
challenges and changes andclarification with people, et
cetera I think Stephen said thisat the beginning of the
conversation to a degree for HRpeople, for talent leaders, this
feels like HR.
(49:45):
Sorry, it feels like COVID.
You are navigating unchartedwaters, right?
I would have never thought twoyears ago, or even a year ago,
that the EDI conversation wouldbe what it is today, and so it
forces me back to that COVIDseat where I could not have
(50:06):
imagined that I was working in afinancial services company and
we would all be working fromhome.
That was just unfathomable,right?
And when things like thishappened, you kind of have to go
back to the basics in terms ofhow you learn how to communicate
.
And one of the thingsthematically with these
questions and with the blowbackor the things that are happening
(50:29):
, is to be mindful, becausethere are two things happening
for people, right, if you are atthe top of the food chain, you
may not necessarily feel unsafeto speak up about these things.
Equally, if you are at the topand you're close to retirement,
you may not want to rufflefeathers, right?
So I think it's important totake a step back and realize who
(50:53):
are you.
I agree with Geraldine, thereare ways of subtly bringing
things into a conversation, butI think to add to that, there's
also a way of understanding andknowing your audience and within
your organization.
Any organization I have yet tosee one that is of size where
everybody thinks the same andthinks that it's anti-woke or
(51:14):
woke.
So you have to take your timeto almost revert back to when
you started the organization andyou were doing a listening tour
to figure out who's who, wherethey stand, what matters to them
and what doesn't right.
So there's that element of it.
It's almost like reintroducingyourself to people, listening
(51:36):
and learning where they stand in, what is happening, what
bothers them, what do they feelneeds to move forward versus
taking a position.
And then the other thing is Iwholeheartedly agree ERGs are
incredibly powerful.
They're large groups of people,but the last thing you wanna
make them is an echo chamber ora whistleblowing group, and the
(52:01):
only way that I can see that Ihave from experience see them
work well is when they have thestructure and the sponsorship
from the right people.
So if you currently have an ERG, regardless of the size
relevant to your organizationyou know your women's group is
likely to be the larger group ofpeople.
(52:22):
It might be a good time torebalance what is everybody's
role in that ERG and ensuringand I love that Stephen brought
this up too when he was talkingabout your HR people, but
ensuring from a safetyperspective that the roles make
sense for people.
You might have had someonethat's really outspoken before
(52:44):
but now doesn't want to bepinged or pegged into something
that may affect their career.
So maybe it's time to rebalancethe governance structure of that
group, figure out who yoursponsors are, figure out who
your allies are and maybe trimdown the goals.
I'm not saying dim them, buttrim them to the things that
actually are relevant for thecurrent time period.
(53:07):
Right, I hope that makes sense,but I just think that a lot
gets lost in translation andwhen it does, the best thing to
do is to take that little bit ofa step back and revisit your
governance structure, revisityour rights, revisit who are the
people that are going to affectchange for you, and not look or
(53:29):
seek echo chambers, not look orseek for people to join you in
sort of like an internal.
Someone said it and I forgiveme because I don't remember who
said this, but um, workingcommunities are I think it was
you, geraldine are umreflections of society.
You don't want the protestgroup at work to be your ERG.
I don't think that that'seffective it's.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
It's really interesting, and you know what
again I'm thinking okay, it'sanother topic for another
webinar is actually the power ofemployee resource groups and
also how.
I think what you're saying rariis, and especially in the us
context.
They are interestingly quiteclose to certain unions very
different in the uk you look atmaturity curves for everything
from employee resource groups toother community vehicles within
(54:19):
organisations Very different.
So super interesting point.
I am conscious of time andtechnically we've only got a
couple of minutes left and thereare a whole number of questions
we haven't got to, so apologies, apologies if we haven't.
I'm really quickly going tocome to a couple that we have in
here and then what I will do isI'll do my best to summarise
(54:39):
some of the key points, of whichthere have been many, but don't
worry, we will follow up with asummary from today's session
and certainly for those who haveregistered to watch on demand I
know a number of people haveLet me just ask these last
questions.
Oh, my goodness, there's acouple of always pose these
everyone.
If I haven't come to yourquestions, we can always pose
(55:01):
these again afterwards.
But um, does one manage therisk as dei and um they get
bundled into talent, cultureremits.
The expertise to createequitable, diverse, inclusive
organizations may get diluted asspecific DEI roles work
collaboratively to embedinclusive ways of working across
all function areas.
(55:22):
And I may tie that actually toRay's question.
Ray, thank you as well.
Who is asking about whetherthere ought to be a necessary
reframe of DEI and what thatneeds to look like?
We have acknowledgement here ofthe clear link to talent again,
(55:43):
which I know you've allmentioned, which I think is
excellent.
So we are seeing some trends.
Is it right for a reframe DEIto remain largely the domain of
CHROs and CPOs?
That is a good one.
And then Claire, asking about,you know, organisations slowing
down in light of recentlegislation.
So I've kind of bundled thosethree together, but I wonder if
(56:05):
there's any comments from anyonearound that, in particular the
acknowledgement of whether thisremains CHRO and CPO domain.
So I think that's aparticularly interesting one.
Would anyone like to take it?
Speaker 3 (56:19):
before I try and summarise, I'm happy to just
throw one quick comment to thatlast bit.
No, no, and I was veryfortunate that my previous
managing partner, who just moved, just went into a different
role, was our chief diversityofficer.
He decided to do this becausehe said if it's not central to
him and leadership, then yeah,it becomes a sort of HR policy.
(56:45):
And then the second is I don'tblame organizations that are
saying they do have to reframeand rethink.
It depends where you're at.
For some, I think it'sreaffirming back to.
This is what we were trying todo.
Let's reaffirm that we're stilltrying to do it.
But the key is to be precise,because we've suffered this.
We may stop an activity thatwas formerly part of our DEI
(57:05):
strategy and everyone reads intoit that we now lack faith.
We're crumbling, but it's thesame as we do a bunch of things
in learning.
You know we spent money on themetaverse, thinking that might
have been the future of learningfour years ago, and it turned
out it wasn't.
There are many elements of whatwe do in DEI simply didn't work
.
So the key is to be precise, Ithink, because, except that,
(57:26):
people will read stuff into whatyou're doing.
So be precise about what you'restill trying to achieve and why
a lot of it still works and whysome of it doesn't.
And then we have to be honestabout the things that we're
changing, because we don't wantto get into semantic walls and
we want to do good work stilland we want to stay legal in
every country we're in.
And I think if you can keepstuff in buckets, at least help
(57:48):
people.
It won't keep everyone happy.
They may still be dismayed withsome of the choices you know we
all have to make.
But it's about being precise, Ithink, because it's the
vagueness that gets everyonethinking.
Everything means something thatyou didn't intend it to great
answer, steven, and and this isit.
Speaker 1 (58:07):
You know there is a lot of fear at the moment around
of the who should, I shouldn't,I have said this, that and the
other, um, the vagueness, thegray areas, I think a lot of the
time what causes this worry anduncertainty?
We've had some brilliantgratitude comments, actually, so
thank you everyone for beingreally positive.
(58:27):
We've had Tangy Morgan oh,great name says excellent
discussion with comments thatare thought provoking,
especially in navigating the USadministration's current focus
on dismantling DEI and theglobal impact on industries.
A lot of people saying very,very insightful session.
Thank you, very thoughtprovoking as ever.
I am going to try and summariseand I'm thinking my goodness,
(58:49):
this is a job.
Kudos to myself for trying tosummarise all the insights from
this brilliant panel.
So what I will say very, veryquickly is some of the pieces
that have really stood out forme is talent.
Talent has been a theme that haswoven through the entirety of
this conversation, mentioned byeach and every one of you.
(59:12):
So paying attention to talentas a strategy, whatever that is
linked to within HR, within theroles that may be chief
diversity officer, type roles orstrategy roles We've seen
broadly that, especially in theUK and the US as well, the
employee expectations are rising.
There is an expectation we areseeing now for employees saying
(59:38):
they expect employers toactively promote DEI, despite
the rhetoric, and in the US, youknow, again, we're seeing a lot
of the expectations being thatCEOs speak out about business
for good amongst key pertinentsocial impact aspects Again,
something which I think all ofyou have touched on in one guise
(59:59):
or another.
So talent and integrity,especially at times like this
where we are seeing kind ofperpetuating headlines that
sometimes you think, my goodness, what are we going to see next?
Having that integrity andauthenticity rather authenticity
and trust is key because thisis a world where people can take
(01:00:22):
to anything from a social mediaplatform to say what they are
thinking.
It's very, you know, it's veryquick for information to get out
there.
There's a lot of informationout there as well, and so you
know Stephen said kind of thisanxiety over some of the grey
areas and what to do or say.
Actually, you know, we asleaders and organisations don't
always know the answers toeverything, but actually having
(01:00:45):
integrity and that authenticityand trust at the heart and being
able to reflect that, aseveryone has done and Geraldine
on the employer brand side andactually saying you know what we
are going to double down.
We are doing our best.
These are the core areas thatwe are focusing on because,
simply put, you know, no one caneat the whole elephant at once.
It's focusing on, say,parenthood strategies, focusing
(01:01:07):
on life moments, focusing oncertain areas that we can impact
, whether it be from an allyshipperspective, as Stephen has
mentioned, or whether it be, youknow, from looking at, say, the
gender dimension, as Catherinehas mentioned, and looking at
where we're putting ourinvestments into a lot of
Murari's points.
So, thank you very mucheveryone for joining us.
(01:01:29):
I hope that you have gotsomething out of this session.
I certainly have learned a hugeamount, and there's never quite
enough time on these webinars torattle through everything, but
we are going to be doing anotherwebinar very soon.
We have one next month, forwhich we will pop a lovely slide
(01:01:49):
up very shortly.
You can see it right here.
You may recognize some of thesefabulous individuals.
Right here.
You may recognize some of theseum fabulous individuals um.
Anise misagi from pladis.
Uh.
Vildan oppen um.
Oh, my goodness, my dyslexia.
I hope I'm pronouncing thiscorrectly.
But openga um cersei um from um.
(01:02:10):
I've completely forgotten thecompany name, but it will come
straight back to me henkel,henkel, umkel.
A brilliant organisation.
Jenny Hall, who is from RoyalMail, is the Chief Comms Officer
and Eleanor Arribigan, who isGroup Communications for Hiscox.
So brilliant sector agnosticpanel that we have here and just
(01:02:32):
before we go, thank you.
Thank you everyone for all ofthese lovely comments.
I would like to just add finalthought from each of our
panelists, if I may, and withoutputting one spot too much.
Um, um, katherine, I thinkneeds to go, but an
inspirational kind of thought,or just one lasting thing,
whether it is you're givingadvice to your younger self or
it is something to give peopleas a takeaway.
(01:02:52):
Um, could you give me a little?
Um, you know, could be 10, 10,20 seconds to leave the audience
with today and those that arewatching on demand.
Um, geraldine, you've unmutedfirst, or Catherine, you're
already unmuted.
Speaker 5 (01:03:07):
So, catherine, I've got a meeting waiting for me to
join it, so I'm gonna have to go, I'm afraid.
Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
But uh, thank you everybody so much.
We'll go, geraldine.
Thank you, we'll go, geraldine.
Speaker 4 (01:03:21):
Rari Stephen yeah, I just think um do what you
believe is the right thing verywise words, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
I would say do whatever possible to quiet the
noise, invest in your timeyourself, connect with your
values, but ignore the noise.
Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
It's a great dialogue .
I think for me it's aboutaccepting that you can't please
everybody, but don't pleasenobody.
So again, to me it's about youknow what's a value-driven set
of practical actions.
I'd rather help one person thanwrite a better policy that
doesn't really seem to helpanyone right now.
(01:04:05):
Thank you for inviting me tothis panel.
It's been great.
Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Thank you so much, everyone.
If emojis are a sign of howwell it's gone, I would say it's
gone very well.
So thank you all very much.
I know how incredibly busy youare.
I look forward to catching upwith you all.
Good afternoon, good morning everyone.
Wherever you may be in theworld, welcome to a very special
webinar.
My name is LeilaMcKenzie-Dellis and I am the
founder and CEO of Dial Global,and we're hosting today's
webinar in partnership withAugust Leadership.
We're going to be talking aboutthe profound impact of this
(00:23):
evolving HR landscape.
We're calling the webinarNavigating the Evolving HR
Landscape a TransatlanticPerspective.
I'm joined, as you can see, bysome phenomenal guests, who I
will introduce in just a moment,and the idea of today's session
is that we want you to beexcited and empowered, yet, at
the same time, explore andunpack how some of this
(00:47):
uncertainty is reshaping thefuture of work.
As you've probably all seen,geopolitical tensions have been
rather high.
We've seen shifting economies,technological innovations
accelerating everything from HRto engagement, and leaders in
the main are under a pretty bigamount of pressure to be able to
(01:09):
adapt, and that's everythingfrom balancing risk mitigation
with inclusive people first,strategies that maintain
long-term corporate integrityright the way through to dealing
with crisis comms, and lookingat strategies to be able to
amplify current engagement andmaximize potential of people
(01:29):
within organizations and alsomaximize revenues as well.
Companies like the ones that wehave here and the leaders we
have here, remaining resilientin their long-term commitment,
which we'll be finding out muchmore about as we go through
today's session.
Let me take a moment tointroduce some of our fantastic
(01:51):
guests.
We have Stephen Parker, who ispartner and CHRO at Carney.
He has over 25 years worth ofexperience within the consulting
world.
He is a Brit living over thepond in the States.
He successfully led and grownhuman capital consulting
businesses for many years andwe're delighted to have him here
(02:13):
.
We also have Geraldine Fraser.
Geraldine is a titan ofindustry, has superb global
experience, currently ChiefHuman Resources Officer for
Pladis Global.
You may know them better asbeing owners of McVitie's and
Ulka and many of the othersnacking brands.
She was formerly the CPO forFriesland Campina, a global FMCG
(02:37):
organisation.
We also have Catherine Lynch,fci PD.
Catherine has a plural role.
She is non-exec and non-co andrem co-chair, as well as also
being chief people officer forMobico Group PLC, based in the
UK, a FTSE 250 organisation.
(02:59):
And, last but never least,marie SotoSaunders, a chief
people officer with somebrilliant global expertise,
formerly MD for People andTalent for CVC Capital Partners,
large scale private equityorganisation, and American
living here in the UK.
So a great group we have hereWithout further ado, I'm going
(03:23):
to intro our very first guest,Stephen.
I'm going to come to you to openup the session no pressure here
, of course to tell us a littlebit about what you are seeing.
You know Carney's at theforefront and has been very
(03:46):
positively proactive in itsdiversity, inclusion, culture,
people, engagements, but reallegitimacy in this space.
Talk to us a little bit aboutsome of the key trends that you
believe organisations should bepaying immediate attention to if
they are really serious aboutbuilding inclusive, resilient
cultures.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Thanks, leila, really happy to be here.
When you and I chatted aboutthis a few weeks ago, it was a
good pause actually.
As we were chatting, I listedonce again which is helpful all
the topics going on and, as Isaid to you, it sort of amazed
me because I kept thinking backto February, when the change in
government happened in America,and then just thought, ok, we
will be spending the rest of ourquarter year defending
(04:28):
strategies inside the AI,because it just seemed an
onslaught.
And we still are.
And yet since then, you know,we're in 40-odd countries.
So you know we've had Ukraine.
We have an office in Kiev andit's small.
You know we've been supportingthem and then the last months
they think, okay, it's over, theworld isn't going to support
them.
Many of the world has comeforward.
We've got immigration andtravel.
(04:49):
You know we have people all ourcolleagues have family members
who have genuine concerns aboutfriends, family.
They might be under pressure,or even the practical Like.
We have people that were due tocome here as part of mobility
transfers and now we can't getvisas.
We have tariffs and theuncertainty of what they mean
and it's producing so mucheconomic uncertainty that
(05:10):
everyone's now pausing.
You get this sort of decision,paralysis.
And then, of course, constantwas AI, which was very pertinent
to, I think, my HR team.
Biggest question they all hadis everything from how are we
going to get better at this?
To are we going to be replacedby it?
How are we going to get betterat this to?
Are we going to be replaced byit?
How are we going to support ourcolleagues?
That was a completely differentlist from the list we might
(05:30):
have started with in January.
So I started thinking aboutthis when you said, like, what's
important if you're going tobuild a resilient culture and
there's a couple of things thatwe've, I think, done well to
focus on just in the last threemonths to try and build on what
we have been doing One is not toignore that your own HR team
needs to be resilient, becausethey're being hammered left,
right and center on some ofthese topics.
They're expected to be experts,expected to be resilient.
(05:52):
It's a bit like the middle ofCOVID, you know, put your own
oxygen mask on first.
So we've been working hard toreach out to our diverse team
and colleagues to make sure thatthey feel supported.
We've been working hard to notget caught up in grand policy
statements because you knowthey're kind of helpful, they
(06:13):
give people reassurance butusually only for about 20
minutes and then they doubtbecause they see stuff happening
around them to say, well, whatdid they mean?
And it's very hard to write aglobal policy when you policy,
when DEI is under attack to acertain extent in America and
yet we have countries where it'spart of their law, where we
(06:34):
have to measure, in the kingdomof Saudi Arabia and South Africa
to take part in business there.
So we have to be very careful.
So we sort of said, okay, whatcan we do that's practical, that
actually helps individuals thatfeel their livelihoods
threatened, that feel frightenedto go to different client
settings to travel, avoid abouttheir futures.
So we're trying to sort ofdouble down what real support,
what real action can we do?
(06:55):
And then how to make thecommunication from leaders a
little bit more one-to-one and alittle bit more constant, so
that it's more of a dialogue,the best you can, and not just
loading everything as if our CEOor managing partner is going to
just make a series of grandpronouncements that feel good
(07:16):
but are hard to figure out howthey apply in every country,
because we might say somethingto say look, we are going to
defend our need for diversityall over the world because we
need greater diversity in ourtalent pool totally, and we know
that in order to do that youhave to have an inclusive
culture, Otherwise they allleave.
(07:36):
You work so hard to get peopleto join and then they figure out
oh that was it, that's whereall your efforts ended.
But I'll be honest with you,we've got to be careful in how
we say that in certain countriesbecause we follow the law, but
in other countries that justdismays them.
So one of the interestingtrends in the last month I've
noticed is our Americancolleagues are sort of fully at
(07:57):
the front line and we're workingreally hard to do practical
impact to improve diversity andimprove inclusion.
But the rest of the world can'tsee it and they're sort of
worried and dismayed becausethey know that in the past this
country where I live now and acitizen of, has been at the
(08:18):
forefront of doing the bestthings.
And now we mightn't be.
And I think we've beenencouraging some of our other
colleagues around the world tosay well, let's start to get
good practices, talk what you'redoing, you know, don't just get
dismayed because you're notsure.
But the biggest sort of wave ofquestions has come from outside
the US, because they're sort ofnervous and worried, not sure,
(08:43):
and then the final thing we'vebeen doing is, of course, trying
to rely on our values.
It's not perfect, but at leastif you have values that you
believe have some credibility,then they're a touchstone to say
look, trust us, which we'vebeen able to do, and people will
disagree, but at least we'retrying to have a discussion
about it and not force it, youknow, underground.
(09:03):
So yeah, the trends are hard toread.
You know it's sort of each weekthere'll be something else
emerging.
But the big one for me is howto sort of equip and take care
of my own HR leaders, who can bethen role models, and then how
do they take care practically ofthe people around them with
something that's real andhelpful as opposed to just a
(09:25):
policy.
So pause.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Stephen, thanks so much for that, and I think um
really pertinent from whatyou've said is, yes, the trends
are hard to read, but ultimatelythis is very much about trust,
it's about long-term credibility, it's about sustainability.
Um, and HR frankly does not getagain sounding a little biased
here, but HR does not get thecredit in which it is due
because, actually, it props up alot of the time.
(09:53):
The organisation is a strategicpartner to the CEO and wider
organisation.
It is one that really does needoxygen to make sure it's being
looked after, because you findthen that a whole number of
things end up going down andemployer brand and integrity is
(10:17):
absolutely central to that.
Which leads me nicely on toGeraldine.
Geraldine, if I may bring you inhere off the back of the
picture that Stephen has painted, being over in America from the
(10:38):
Wirral, more specifically,actually over in the States,
geraldine has just come in fromChina and has a very
international background andworking for Pladis, which is a
global leader in snacking, it'sreally doubling down on its
efforts, which I think is keygiven that we want consumer
(10:58):
confidence as well.
Geraldine, talk to us a littlebit about how Pladis are
doubling down on theircommitment to DEI and perhaps
some of the advice that youmight offer organisations that
want to maintain that strongsense of belonging from their
(11:21):
people, especially at a timewhen we're seeing some
organisations sidestepping fromsome of their DEI efforts.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Yeah, sure, and thanks Leila, and thank you
Stephen, because I think, asStephen said, it's a sensitive
topic at the moment and it'stricky territory at the moment
and it's tricky territory but Ithink you know we have a
governance board.
So I think that is one piece ofadvice, I guess.
So I think one of the things wewanted to be sure of within
(11:56):
Pladis is that we didn't getcaught up in all our own
opinions and kind of go downthat group think route.
So we have an independent board, advisory board on inclusion,
diversity and equity, who keepus kind of honest and also
create, bring best practice, butalso keep a certain
consciousness around.
(12:16):
You know what we're doing onIDE and it was actually with
that board that we decided wehad the confidence and the
ambition to stay the course onIDE.
So I think, where you can bringin that external counsel and
external perspective, I wouldstrongly recommend, because
otherwise you have to giveyourself courage.
Sometimes you need other peopleto give you courage and the IDE
(12:39):
board played that well for us.
But I think for us, if I thinkabout IDE and I think Stephen
kind of alluded to it as well ifyou break down all the
component parts of IDE and if Ilook at the feedback that we get
from our employees and fromleaders, et cetera, when we do
(12:59):
diagnostic surveys, I think it'sthe things where you have
targets and where you have whichcan be interpreted as quotas
are the areas that don't.
It's a topic that doesn'talways land well because it
starts to feel like unfair,although the intent was always
(13:21):
about improving fairness andimproving accessibility and
equity.
So actually, for us, at theheart of that discussion is
around inclusion, and it's hardto debate why dignity at work,
respect at work, are not goodcultural norms in any
(13:41):
organisation and in a worldwhich may feel even more divided
at some point at the moment.
Having that sense of belongingthrough your work or through
your organisation and a sense ofcommunity, because in the end,
an organisation is a microcosmof society, isn't it?
It is a community, so it canonly be a good thing.
So it may feel subtle, but Ithink switching the narrative to
(14:04):
being around inclusion firstand then what does that mean for
us, was a real change that wemade.
So, for example, if I, we dohave targets around women in
leadership, but the origin ofthat was that were we being
inclusive enough for our femalepopulation.
That was the origin of thethinking not, oh, we must have
(14:25):
targets.
And that led us to say,actually, some targets will help
us to bring more inclusion forour female population.
So I think that element aroundinclusion, being at the heart
and thinking what does that meanfor you as an organization, has
really helped us and helped usto be able to really think about
(14:45):
, you know, say, whatever thecommunities that we have,
whether it's LGBTQ community orwhether it's our female
neurodivergent communities, etc.
And it's helped us to be ableto have a broader, more engaging
conversation with individualswhere they all feel included in
that dialogue, rather thancalling out specific groups, and
(15:07):
that has been really useful forus.
So we have put indisproportionate effort behind a
life transitions policy, forexample, for all employees as
they experience parenthood, andthat gives extra leave for the
main caregiver, support,caregiving, return to work,
(15:30):
benefits, et cetera.
And that has really built ourstory around inclusion and
really gets to the core of thechallenge, which is around how
can we embrace everyone as we goon this journey of IDE.
But, as Stephen also said, itcan be tricky because at some
(15:50):
point what can you say and whatcan't you say, and so in the
States it can be delicate at themoment, but at the same time in
Europe we have to prepare forpay transparency, which is at
the raw end of the equity debate.
So you're doing both withinyour organisation, but if you're
(16:13):
doing it with integrity andyou're doing it with the right
level of authenticity and withthe right intent, I believe you
can find a way.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Geraldine, I love that you have focused in a lot
on the, the trust piece, theauthenticity piece I'm already
seeing a slight trend emerginghere from yourself and Steve.
But in particular, transitionpolicies I just think are
absolutely wonderful, and thenod to intersexuality, because
(16:51):
at the end, most of us, all ofus, go through various different
transitions within life.
(17:14):
You know, certainly myself atthe moment being not too far off
, you know, giving birth to twosecond little little boys.
Definitely feeling you knowthat that it's going to be
another chapter and knowing thatyou have employers and brands
who are really sticking to theirguns when it comes to looking
(17:40):
after people and recognizing the, the care piece, and the return
to work benefits to retaintalent.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Yeah, it's a huge amount, yeah and I think, leila,
it has landed so well, um, thatnow we're looking at the next
phase of life transitions, wherewe've asked employees what we,
what they think, what, whatshould that be?
And I've said care care foreither family members or care
(18:09):
for parents or people incaregiving responsibility, and
how do they balance that withwork.
So that's what we'll pursuenext to see what does that mean
in terms of creating anorganisation where people feel
they can be their best but theyalso have a level of support.
(18:30):
Um, so that's our ambition andit's it's working.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
It's working well so far excellent um, and, if you
haven't already seen, there weresome brilliant articles.
I saw one, I think it was inthe grocery, and then we have
one in the retail times as well,where you were quoted around
the importance of brands and theimportance how the brands have
been part of people's lives aswell, and it is.
(18:55):
It's really that evolution oflife journey, the brands that we
remember and the you know,these life transitions which all
of us have been through, andwhen it touches the heart and
soul, then it really does make adifference, much as we also, as
business leaders, love data andstats and all of those kind of
other things.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Yeah, perfect, I know , that's right, that's right
Sorry, thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
And a perfect pivot.
Now from yourself, Geraldine,to another brilliant leader of
talent, Murari.
Murari, I'm going to comeacross to yourself, if I may.
Murari has a brilliantbackground.
I know I keep pointing this out, but we've got such a great
(19:44):
international panel here, itjust fills me.
Rari is an American living inthe UK, formerly was MD and
Chief Talent for CBC, but isdoing a lot within the HR and
people space.
Rari, talk to us a little bitabout the background, I guess,
(20:09):
and what you're seeing in, to anextent, the investment
landscape, as I think it isimportant here to recognise that
diverse inclusion, belongingequity culture.
It comes in many forms and thatis also how we invest in
everything from minority,minority, female led
(20:34):
organizations right the waythrough to talent.
Can you talk to us about yourapproach, what you're seeing
when it comes to talentstrategies and also any of the
trends in investment?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Absolutely.
First and foremost, it's funny.
I do have.
I am American, living in London, but my kids have British
accents because they're British.
So we live in a funny householdof many accents.
And the other thing I was goingto say is congrats, leila.
I know you're going to be anamazing mom of two.
If I can do it, you mostcertainly can, so I'm excited
(21:06):
for you.
I think you know, when it comesto the space, the investment
space, private equity andventure capital and right now
I'm working actually with someearly stage companies, so this
comes up a lot.
So in the VC and the PE space,I think it's important to note
that there's a dualresponsibility.
(21:28):
There's the responsibility thatyou have internally and there's
the responsibility that youhave for your portfolio.
And I'll lend on Stephen andGeraldine's brilliant points.
One of you know taking care ofyour house right, making sure
your HR people I think in theprivate equity space that lands
(21:51):
well.
You have to.
And in the VC space, you haveto know where you stand on EDI,
where you stand on how you wantto represent yourself and take
care of your people and thethings that come up for your
people.
And then, when it comes to theportfolio bit and I think
Geraldine touched on this a bitwith when it comes to brands
(22:14):
right and their own identity isgiving them the space to build
that identity whilst at the sametime, being clear about where
you are on how you approach thisstrategy.
And I will say, one of thethings that is sadly lost in
translation and I'm not going tolie, I kind of sometimes wish I
(22:35):
had my children's accent,because it is not.
It is probably one of the mostembarrassing times to have my
own accent, which makes me sad.
I love being American, but itis, you know, it is.
It is a time, we're in a time.
But, with that being said, Ithink when I look at EDI, when I
(22:57):
look at whatever DEI, howeveryou want, whatever acronym you
want to use, what I feel that isultimately lost in translation
is that it is a talent strategy.
That is what it is.
You know it's a talent strategy.
That is what it is.
It's a talent acquisition,talent development, and
Geraldine touched on this withsome of her programs, but it is
(23:17):
about inclusion.
It is about creating safe,productive, efficient and
welcoming work environments, andwe have that as a task.
To break down a little bit morein terms of the investment side.
So, if you look at it, fromwhat is the VC, private equity
responsibility?
Internally versus externally,and externally we'll call that
(23:40):
the portfolio group, butinternally, I think, continuous
collaboration and investmentswith programs such as Level 20
and SEO, because historicallyboth private equities and VCs
are not known to be spaces thatwere created for people that are
in the underrepresented talentcategories.
(24:02):
So those programs Level 20, seoallow for there to be not only
investment at the junior stateof the person's career, but
investment into entry into theprivate equity and the VC space.
The second piece and this is alittle bit of a hybrid between
both, in some cases it dependson the size of the organization,
but a role that I believe has alot of impact around EDI and
(24:30):
value creation is the talentpartner roles.
So the roles that focus on boththe portfolio functions as well
as the internal, and they havea way of influencing not only
innovation into their functionsin terms of how they go about
hiring, market mapping andlooking for talent, but they
also have a way of creatingprograms that bring portfolio
(24:54):
companies together as thinktanks and thought leadership
groups so that they can hold aposition, if they want to, but
also debate some of the thingsthat they're experiencing in the
port coast and they know thatthey're supported by the company
that owns them.
So one of the programs I workedon in the past was effectively
(25:18):
like a lunch and learn where allof the port coasts come
together we talk about in thisparticular one.
We're talking about thematurity model in DEI and what
were some of the practices andideas that work for certain
kinds of companies.
And I think when people seethat some of these challenges
(25:39):
are agnostic, right, they findways and they borrow from each
other on how to work on theseparticular issues.
And I think again, going back toand I hate to repeat this, but
I just think it's important.
So, going back to the fact thatthis is a talent strategy from
the seat of the VC, in theprivate equity bit, I think the
(26:00):
piece that is probably mostimportant is the recognition
that not only is it a talentstrategy, but it's a talent
strategy that has to be embeddedinto your investment thesis.
It has to be embedded into yourvalue creation plan.
So when you think about whoyour clients are and in this
case it would be the LPs and theinvestors right is holding some
(26:27):
space, from some accountabilityfrom that group of people,
embedding these talentstrategies and these processes
in that accountability for thatgroup of people.
And lastly and I think this partis also has already been
touched on, but there is, interms of the VC in the PE space,
on the internal employee bit,the other bit that I see that
(26:50):
really really works well is whenpeople have structured strong
EDI committees and have ERGsthat are sponsored and supported
by senior members of theorganization, and that not only
lends and opens voices forpeople who are underrepresented
within those organizations, butit gives you again a
(27:15):
well-rounded view of what isimportant on your investment
side of the business, what'simportant on one side of the
globe versus another.
And again it ties it back intothat value creation piece and
that innovation, because there'smassive potential.
Well, and it is the case, butin a lot of VC and private
(27:38):
equity spaces there's a lot ofpotential to have a lot of
innovation, a lot of creativity.
There is diversity in howpeople invest, in how they carry
on with their business, thekind of companies that they
attract, and so if that is tiedtogether, that's that's sort of
where you have like the bestworld possible it's super
(28:01):
interesting when you talk aboutdiversity of investment and it's
like a whole.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I mean maybe we should do another webinar on
this is how wealth is createdand the power of different,
diverse communities and theinvestments they make, because
that in and to itself isabsolutely fascinating.
But, to your point, lots of thechallenges that we're seeing
and lots of the transferablemethodologies that we're trying
to learn from one another rightnow and organizations are now
(28:31):
and organisations are the bestinnovations often come from
sector agnostic challenges,because I think organisations in
certain sectors can at timesget a little bit stuck in their
ways, whilst we obviously canidentify certain trends.
But I really like the way thatyou talk about talent very
specifically being key.
I mean, from a talent mappingperspective, we are seeing a lot
(28:51):
of, say, chief diversity rolesbeing mapped in with chief
diversity and talent and talent,as everyone has identified, is
absolutely core and centre ofmany of the organisational
growth strategies.
So thank you for many of thosepertinent points.
(29:13):
And again, perfect segue to comeacross to Catherine, because
whilst we're talking and you'vetalked a lot Ari investment, the
import of talent from withinorganisations and also
attracting talent, catherine,you have portfolio career now as
(29:34):
well as obviously being chiefK-listed PLC.
It would be great now to moveus into the world of the
non-executive and the boardbecause, of course, a lot of
decisions influenced by theboards that we have serving our
(29:54):
organisations.
You and I have spoken candidlybefore about you know, often you
being the only woman on a boardand being in the minority.
It would be great for you tounpack a little around your
thoughts around diversity andinnovation within boards, and
you know perhaps some of thestrategies that you might
(30:15):
implement to make more space forwomen and not only to be more
representative on boards, butalso for there to be greater
equity through this as a talentstrategy yeah, thank you, leila.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
Good afternoon, good morning everybody, and hopefully
going last, I get to draw someof the threads together from my
esteemed guest panellists.
So I sit on the board as aRemco and Nonco chair of an aim
listed recruitment and trainingcompany here in the UK, and I've
done that for now four and ahalf years.
And what's interesting is,mireille, from your experience
(30:51):
as an investor, a talent officer, my first interaction with
institutional investors as theRem chair was to face into a
panel of eight men from Fidelityin 2021, who, interestingly,
because I was the only woman onthe board, were very upset by
(31:11):
the lack of representation.
I mean, there were only fourboard members at the time, so I
was 25 percent of that, but theywere very keen to have an
additional board member femaleboard member and yet they voted
against me at my first AGMbecause I had a three year LTIP
holding period, not a five year,and it went across their red
(31:32):
line from an investmentperspective.
So oh, the irony that they werein one hand, telling us we
didn't have enoughrepresentation and then they
voted against the one woman thatthey had because of a REM
policy conflict.
So I did find that a bit of aninteresting one, and that's a
bit of an interesting one.
And, look, I would never be ina situation where I would have a
(32:13):
talent strategy that was all,had a really good DE and I
pedigree, and so I think as CPOspotentially chief HR officers
we can be quite influential andas board members in making sure
you select the right partner.
For a start, the second thingwas insist on a 50-50 shortlist
(32:34):
and therefore you're giving theopportunity to bring, but
ultimately, of course, select,the best.
Now I did actually select alady called Amanda Aldridge who
joined me at Staffline two yearsago and I worked with her as a
very close partner and she'sterrific.
But to your point, Leila, aboutmaybe something a little bit
(32:54):
more innovative, because there'snothing really unusual in what
we did there at Starfline.
When I was at Accenture PLC as achief people officer, the chair
there, very forward thinking,created a new role on the board
called a board trainee and hiredsomebody from a diverse
(33:14):
community and gave not just theopportunity for social and
economic diversity, ethnicdiversity, but also age
diversity, to bring a differentperspective to the board, and I
thought that was fantasticallysmart because we got a voice of
a different generation, a voiceof a different background and
they got an education in how topotentially progress to being a
(33:37):
board member.
Two years on, that board memberwas converted to a
fully-fledged paid NED and theystill serve on the board there
today.
So I've taken the best practicefrom what we did there and
we'll look to replicate thathere at Mobico to create real
value and actually givesomething back to a community,
(34:00):
particularly giving womenopportunities to join boards who
wouldn't necessarily otherwiseand actually can speak quite
passionately, because I've seenit work in practice.
So a couple of points therethat I hope are useful, leila.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Very useful indeed and I think it's one of the
questions that I'm often askedby C-suite and those who are
looking to further their careers.
Because ultimately, you know,what I know all of us are
passionate about is how do weallow diverse talent to thrive,
or talent from whateverbackground to be able to thrive
without blockers.
And a big part of it, to yourpoint, is, you know, how do you,
(34:46):
yes, send the lift back downand give that opportunity, but
also how do we continue toidentify talent and help it up
those lofty, you know,hierarchies of you know, either
a getting into the C-suite or,if you are at C-suite, looking
at potentially the portfoliocareer, because it does often
(35:07):
take the first chance almost tobe given before then others come
from that, and it was a lot ofquestions actually that were
asked pre this session wasadvice on joining boards and
C-suite becoming more endowedinto that kind of that portfolio
(35:30):
type career.
So I wonder whether I couldjust um flip again back to you
any thoughts on that before wekind of open up the floor um to
some questions um and geteveryone talking kate.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
Um, kate in the chat has actually asked me a question
about did the board traineehave full voting rights?
Um, yes, they absolutely didthey.
They, they didn't take a fee,they were expenses only because
it was very much in that first12 months, a development
opportunity.
They were mentored andsponsored by the chair who
absolutely led and, and,interestingly, as a an older and
(36:07):
um white experienced gentleman,um, and and I think again that
was one of the things I wantedto draw out, you know it's
getting as an older and white,experienced gentleman and I
think again that was one of thethings I wanted to draw out you
know it's getting the men tosponsor some of these.
It's not an unknown, it's notso much us women we try and do
an awful lot for others in ourown community but it's getting
(36:27):
the men to actually sponsor andmentor and promote those
opportunities.
But that's now a rollingprogramme.
So the chair will continue toevery 12 months, rotate and give
an opportunity, obviously not apermanent role, because that
would need to complete a fullterm of three years potentially
(36:47):
or even go on to do the six andnine, complete a full term of
three years potentially or evengo on to do the six and nine.
But it's certainly a reallygood practice and I know one
that other organizations areadopting and it's becoming more
common.
But in terms of your question,leila, you know getting
opportunities and getting people.
I personally think you know.
Look at where you can add value.
(37:07):
So, if you're a retailerthrough and through approach
boards in your space where youcan add value.
So if you're a retailer throughand through approach boards in
your space where you can addsubject matter expertise In my
case, I was approached forsomething in recruitment and
training, so it was a subject Iknew plenty about.
So whilst I was a rookie NEDfour and a half years ago, they
(37:27):
knew that I could come to thetable and confidently understand
the industry, understand whatthe business was doing and go
from that perspective of being aleader in that space and
bringing that value to the board.
So my advice is be proactive,but also think carefully when
you're targeting opportunitiesas to what it is those
(37:49):
organizations need and where youcould add value.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
I'll hand back Leila Brilliant.
Thank you, catherine.
I'm seeing and please do, don'tbe shy everyone, it's a
friendly group here.
Please do tap in the chat or Isee that there's messages coming
through privately as well, soplease do go ahead.
We have got 10, 15 minuteswhere we'll be kind of now
fielding some questions.
(38:14):
But, catherine, we've seen acouple of responses here and
some people who have clearly hadsome benefit from listening to
you all.
Someone here on the sportsboard I think this is Kate also
saying that she's going to nowrecommend that we go for a
trainee board role, which Ithink is fantastic.
How do we give opportunity totalent?
But, equally, how do we ensurethat that is a?
(38:36):
You know, it's a growth driverfor the organisation.
You know, one reflection that Ihave is looking at these
different groups of talent,whether they be boards, whether
they be employee resource groupsor staff networks, as they're
often called Powerfulcommunities, because within
these communities there'sopportunities to learn and grow
(38:58):
more and also to give theseexamples as personal development
progression points, takingemployee resource groups just as
one community as an example,but it's often a voluntary
community.
It's incredible how many peopleare in these communities.
One of our clients we work withVerizon.
(39:21):
They have 25,000 people intheir employee resource groups
and you think, wow, that'sbigger than many organisations
and that is the power ofvolunteering.
But you think, in thesecommunities, where might one get
the opportunity to lead or beat the helm of, to have that
feedback loop into what are verysenior individuals within the
organisation?
Otherwise, catherine, youtouched on allyship and, stephen
(39:42):
, I'm going to come across toyou, since you opened us up and
as the male in the minority onour panel, I would like to put
you on the spot, but in a verypositive light, because you are
a fantastic ally and I trulymean that it's.
Every time we have aconversation you are there, um,
you know saying, look, what canwe do more?
And I know that you mean ittalk to us a little bit about
(40:03):
kind of allyship, whilst we umcollate some of these questions
here, because that is critical,no point.
As, uh, women, um, you knowpreaching to the converted, um,
and and sitting around you knowmoaning about what could be and
all these kind of things,whereas actually we ought to
bring great men and everyonealong the journey yeah, yeah, no
(40:26):
it's.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
We've tried to focus on this for a few years.
I wouldn't say or claim thatwe're brilliant at it.
There's a couple of.
We were first of all trying tosay look, your political views
(40:48):
or any views on anythingshouldn't matter, because what
we're trying to do is to bringin greater talent to our firm,
not ignore giant pockets of theworld if we didn't do it well,
and to have an inclusiveapproach.
So they wanted to stay andperform.
So it's, of course, in America.
Come into a sharper examination, because really what's under
(41:08):
attack is this sense of oh, it'snot a meritocracy and therefore
there's some hidden advantageand therefore I'm disadvantaged.
Look, we've never, believedthat.
But we said, look, we have todouble down on.
This has always been ameritocracy.
We try our best.
It might be flawed.
So this is simply all we'retrying to do is to oil our
(41:28):
meritocracy better and to makesure that when we can bring in
the most diverse talent,everybody has a shot at this
meritocracy can bring in themost diverse talent.
Everybody has a shot at thismeritocracy.
Therefore, allyship is crucialbecause if there's tons of us,
then it feels more natural to beourselves.
If you don't look likeeverybody else or feel like or
(41:52):
feel you belong, then you mightneed more conversations,
dialogue so that you canunderstand how it works.
The second thing that we'vetried to make sure people
realize, especially on men we'vedone we've had like inclusion
and allyship training for awhile is it's different from
coaching.
Coaching might be an essentialpart of it, but it's not
sufficient, because then it justsounds like me giving tips.
(42:13):
Good luck, you know.
Here's how I got here.
Here's's what you should do.
Perfect, no, you have to putsomething at risk.
You know it's about politicalcapital.
You know Geraldine andCatherine are both talking about
it.
We have a way to influence in afair way, just to make sure
that we have diverse talentpools, that someone understands
how the processes work to getpromoted, to get selected, that
(42:36):
they feel that their voice canbe included.
And that's been a big one,because I think for many years
people thought mentorship wasvague.
Support, general support.
And you know we've had lots ofconversations with our
partnership to say, look, ifyour answer is just to clap when
we talk about this, thatactually you're part of the
(42:57):
problem, because we need morethan clapping, we need people to
do something, otherwise wewon't nudge the dial at all in
our challenge to look more likeour clients, to look more like
our communities.
And then the final piece is youknow, not everyone realizes
what's the start of sentence.
You know, if it's a vague setof leadership skills, yes, I'm
(43:21):
going to be a driver of allyship, but what on earth does that
look like?
So we tried to break it down insmall groups leadership
training.
What's the sentence?
That you can start aconversation with someone that's
not like you.
That might give them a sensethat you could be an ally and
help and bring some real, notmore than coaching and guidance,
(43:41):
but help the firm make betterdecisions.
But it's a work in progress.
We have to repeat it, and we'rerepeating it even more in the
US, because we have to be reallyclear.
This is about meritocracy.
We still need diversity andinclusion.
We're not going to battlesomeone else's definition of the
word equity, which has becomethe real flashpoint, because we
want to do good work and wethink the work is in.
(44:04):
Still, how do we supportdiverse populations coming to
our firm?
How are we inclusive and how dowe act as allies so they don't
feel then marginalized and leaveand then we have to start again
?
So there's a few thoughts.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Thanks ever so much, stephen.
And action is the key word.
I love that you used moving thedial as well.
It's like right on brand.
I will not tell everyone thatyou were paid Joking, joking, um
, and I'm asking those that Irecognize the names of, not
(44:42):
because I'm not including others, but I recognize lots of great
names here.
Um, I can see um nihiraka hasasked a question.
I'm seeing if my tech skillswill allow me to um ask if um
nihikara would like to ask thislive, but I am not sure quite
how to do that, so I'm going toread it out.
(45:03):
We have.
Oh, let me find the questionhere, and this is a question to
everyone how would you bestsuggest this tricky market
environment where DEI is beingas anti-woke term I think can be
(45:24):
anti-woke terminology, thoughwe are always working towards
approaching it with talent,leadership, development, career
progression, elements, powerfulelements and also thank you very
much for a powerfulconversation.
Um, I, who might like to takethis, can see, geraldine, you've
been nodding intensely.
(45:44):
Um, as I have to put you on thespot here, can I come across
here to to you with some?
Um?
Essentially, we are seeing alot of this kind of anti-work
sentiment.
You know you are brilliant whenit comes to leadership, talent
(46:05):
development.
I'm not just saying this tobutter you up.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
You really are, and you've worked for lots of global
organizations, so perfectlypoised to answer thoughts yeah,
I, I think, um, uh, yeah, it alldepends on the organization, of
course, and and what'ssensitive and what's not
sensitive?
Now, so in in our case, forexample, um and I absolutely get
(46:29):
the question, but we've justappointed a new managing
director in the states for ourAmerican operation Starts in a
couple of days, and one of thethings he's most proud of was
what he did around IDE at hisprevious employer at Coke, and
we decided to put that into theannouncement, the public
(46:53):
announcement that went externaland internal, that we were
really proud of that.
That wasn't the reason, justthe only reason, why he was
employed, but it was somethingthat he wanted to put down as a
career achievement.
So I think there is somethingabout you know.
A suggestion is perhaps youcontinue on the course that
(47:15):
you're on, but a more subtleapproach.
I think one of the other thingsthat you can do is look at all
the proof points for DEI in yourorganisation, and that might be
everything from office design,whereby you want to consult with
neurodiverse employees aroundnoise levels and space and
(47:36):
lighting, right through to allof your talent processes.
So what are all the touchpoints where DEI feels like it
comes to life and it's part ofthe employee experience.
And mapping all of that meansthat actually you're looking at
recruitment or promotion orcareer conversations, or the way
in which you advertise or allof the different things it could
(47:59):
be around policy, et cetera,and actually you just do it
subtly, you just bring, you know, dei into the way in which you
operate because I think you know, as Marari said, it is often
that this is about talent andhow you manage talent, and I
think there are many, many proofpoints and everything that you
(48:22):
do in the employee experiencethat you can bring to life,
without necessarily dei beingthe only talking point, that can
be another way in thanks verymuch, geraldine.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
um maria, seen you've just popped up on screen and I
also love that everyone'ssending all these little emojis,
so lots of little hearts aregoing up that Geraldine was
speaking so clearly.
This is excellent.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Marari, I think.
By the way, geraldine, yourpoints were amazing and one of
the things I'm reading thequestions and one of the things
that I find lately with the workthat I'm doing now as a
consultant is I don't know ifI'm speaking to the converted
and one of the things to keep inmind with these conversations
(49:04):
so forgive me if I mispronounceyour name, I think it's Niharika
, I don't know in terms of yourorganization and the governance
structure where you can addinfluence, where you can add
power, where you can add voice,but one of the things about this
time and this kind of mergesinto a question that came for
(49:24):
Stephen and I how do you keepbalance in your approach, in
equity, when straddling the UKand the US and the legal
challenges and changes andclarification with people, et
cetera I think Stephen said thisat the beginning of the
conversation to a degree for HRpeople, for talent leaders, this
feels like HR.
(49:45):
Sorry, it feels like COVID.
You are navigating unchartedwaters, right?
I would have never thought twoyears ago, or even a year ago,
that the EDI conversation wouldbe what it is today, and so it
forces me back to that COVIDseat where I could not have
(50:06):
imagined that I was working in afinancial services company and
we would all be working fromhome.
That was just unfathomable,right?
And when things like thishappened, you kind of have to go
back to the basics in terms ofhow you learn how to communicate
.
And one of the thingsthematically with these
questions and with the blowbackor the things that are happening
(50:29):
, is to be mindful, becausethere are two things happening
for people, right, if you are atthe top of the food chain, you
may not necessarily feel unsafeto speak up about these things.
Equally, if you are at the topand you're close to retirement,
you may not want to rufflefeathers, right?
So I think it's important totake a step back and realize who
(50:53):
are you.
I agree with Geraldine, thereare ways of subtly bringing
things into a conversation, butI think to add to that, there's
also a way of understanding andknowing your audience and within
your organization.
Any organization I have yet tosee one that is of size where
everybody thinks the same andthinks that it's anti-woke or
(51:14):
woke.
So you have to take your timeto almost revert back to when
you started the organization andyou were doing a listening tour
to figure out who's who, wherethey stand, what matters to them
and what doesn't right.
So there's that element of it.
It's almost like reintroducingyourself to people, listening
(51:36):
and learning where they stand in, what is happening, what
bothers them, what do they feelneeds to move forward versus
taking a position.
And then the other thing is Iwholeheartedly agree ERGs are
incredibly powerful.
They're large groups of people,but the last thing you wanna
make them is an echo chamber ora whistleblowing group, and the
(52:01):
only way that I can see that Ihave from experience see them
work well is when they have thestructure and the sponsorship
from the right people.
So if you currently have an ERG, regardless of the size
relevant to your organizationyou know your women's group is
likely to be the larger group ofpeople.
(52:22):
It might be a good time torebalance what is everybody's
role in that ERG and ensuringand I love that Stephen brought
this up too when he was talkingabout your HR people, but
ensuring from a safetyperspective that the roles make
sense for people.
You might have had someonethat's really outspoken before
(52:44):
but now doesn't want to bepinged or pegged into something
that may affect their career.
So maybe it's time to rebalancethe governance structure of that
group, figure out who yoursponsors are, figure out who
your allies are and maybe trimdown the goals.
I'm not saying dim them, buttrim them to the things that
actually are relevant for thecurrent time period.
(53:07):
Right, I hope that makes sense,but I just think that a lot
gets lost in translation andwhen it does, the best thing to
do is to take that little bit ofa step back and revisit your
governance structure, revisityour rights, revisit who are the
people that are going to affectchange for you, and not look or
(53:29):
seek echo chambers, not look orseek for people to join you in
sort of like an internal.
Someone said it and I forgiveme because I don't remember who
said this, but um, workingcommunities are I think it was
you, geraldine are umreflections of society.
You don't want the protestgroup at work to be your ERG.
I don't think that that'seffective it's.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
It's really interesting, and you know what
again I'm thinking okay, it'sanother topic for another
webinar is actually the power ofemployee resource groups and
also how.
I think what you're saying rariis, and especially in the us
context.
They are interestingly quiteclose to certain unions very
different in the uk you look atmaturity curves for everything
from employee resource groups toother community vehicles within
(54:19):
organisations Very different.
So super interesting point.
I am conscious of time andtechnically we've only got a
couple of minutes left and thereare a whole number of questions
we haven't got to, so apologies, apologies if we haven't.
I'm really quickly going tocome to a couple that we have in
here and then what I will do isI'll do my best to summarise
(54:39):
some of the key points, of whichthere have been many, but don't
worry, we will follow up with asummary from today's session
and certainly for those who haveregistered to watch on demand I
know a number of people haveLet me just ask these last
questions.
Oh, my goodness, there's acouple of always pose these
everyone.
If I haven't come to yourquestions, we can always pose
(55:01):
these again afterwards.
But um, does one manage therisk as dei and um they get
bundled into talent, cultureremits.
The expertise to createequitable, diverse, inclusive
organizations may get diluted asspecific DEI roles work
collaboratively to embedinclusive ways of working across
all function areas.
(55:22):
And I may tie that actually toRay's question.
Ray, thank you as well.
Who is asking about whetherthere ought to be a necessary
reframe of DEI and what thatneeds to look like?
We have acknowledgement here ofthe clear link to talent again,
(55:43):
which I know you've allmentioned, which I think is
excellent.
So we are seeing some trends.
Is it right for a reframe DEIto remain largely the domain of
CHROs and CPOs?
That is a good one.
And then Claire, asking about,you know, organisations slowing
down in light of recentlegislation.
So I've kind of bundled thosethree together, but I wonder if
(56:05):
there's any comments from anyonearound that, in particular the
acknowledgement of whether thisremains CHRO and CPO domain.
So I think that's aparticularly interesting one.
Would anyone like to take it?
Speaker 3 (56:19):
before I try and summarise, I'm happy to just
throw one quick comment to thatlast bit.
No, no, and I was veryfortunate that my previous
managing partner, who just moved, just went into a different
role, was our chief diversityofficer.
He decided to do this becausehe said if it's not central to
him and leadership, then yeah,it becomes a sort of HR policy.
(56:45):
And then the second is I don'tblame organizations that are
saying they do have to reframeand rethink.
It depends where you're at.
For some, I think it'sreaffirming back to.
This is what we were trying todo.
Let's reaffirm that we're stilltrying to do it.
But the key is to be precise,because we've suffered this.
We may stop an activity thatwas formerly part of our DEI
(57:05):
strategy and everyone reads intoit that we now lack faith.
We're crumbling, but it's thesame as we do a bunch of things
in learning.
You know we spent money on themetaverse, thinking that might
have been the future of learningfour years ago, and it turned
out it wasn't.
There are many elements of whatwe do in DEI simply didn't work
.
So the key is to be precise, Ithink, because, except that,
(57:26):
people will read stuff into whatyou're doing.
So be precise about what you'restill trying to achieve and why
a lot of it still works and whysome of it doesn't.
And then we have to be honestabout the things that we're
changing, because we don't wantto get into semantic walls and
we want to do good work stilland we want to stay legal in
every country we're in.
And I think if you can keepstuff in buckets, at least help
(57:48):
people.
It won't keep everyone happy.
They may still be dismayed withsome of the choices you know we
all have to make.
But it's about being precise, Ithink, because it's the
vagueness that gets everyonethinking.
Everything means something thatyou didn't intend it to great
answer, steven, and and this isit.
Speaker 1 (58:07):
You know there is a lot of fear at the moment around
of the who should, I shouldn't,I have said this, that and the
other, um, the vagueness, thegray areas, I think a lot of the
time what causes this worry anduncertainty?
We've had some brilliantgratitude comments, actually, so
thank you everyone for beingreally positive.
(58:27):
We've had Tangy Morgan oh,great name says excellent
discussion with comments thatare thought provoking,
especially in navigating the USadministration's current focus
on dismantling DEI and theglobal impact on industries.
A lot of people saying very,very insightful session.
Thank you, very thoughtprovoking as ever.
I am going to try and summariseand I'm thinking my goodness,
(58:49):
this is a job.
Kudos to myself for trying tosummarise all the insights from
this brilliant panel.
So what I will say very, veryquickly is some of the pieces
that have really stood out forme is talent.
Talent has been a theme that haswoven through the entirety of
this conversation, mentioned byeach and every one of you.
(59:12):
So paying attention to talentas a strategy, whatever that is
linked to within HR, within theroles that may be chief
diversity officer, type roles orstrategy roles We've seen
broadly that, especially in theUK and the US as well, the
employee expectations are rising.
There is an expectation we areseeing now for employees saying
(59:38):
they expect employers toactively promote DEI, despite
the rhetoric, and in the US, youknow, again, we're seeing a lot
of the expectations being thatCEOs speak out about business
for good amongst key pertinentsocial impact aspects Again,
something which I think all ofyou have touched on in one guise
(59:59):
or another.
So talent and integrity,especially at times like this
where we are seeing kind ofperpetuating headlines that
sometimes you think, my goodness, what are we going to see next?
Having that integrity andauthenticity rather authenticity
and trust is key because thisis a world where people can take
(01:00:22):
to anything from a social mediaplatform to say what they are
thinking.
It's very, you know, it's veryquick for information to get out
there.
There's a lot of informationout there as well, and so you
know Stephen said kind of thisanxiety over some of the grey
areas and what to do or say.
Actually, you know, we asleaders and organisations don't
always know the answers toeverything, but actually having
(01:00:45):
integrity and that authenticityand trust at the heart and being
able to reflect that, aseveryone has done and Geraldine
on the employer brand side andactually saying you know what we
are going to double down.
We are doing our best.
These are the core areas thatwe are focusing on because,
simply put, you know, no one caneat the whole elephant at once.
It's focusing on, say,parenthood strategies, focusing
(01:01:07):
on life moments, focusing oncertain areas that we can impact
, whether it be from an allyshipperspective, as Stephen has
mentioned, or whether it be, youknow, from looking at, say, the
gender dimension, as Catherinehas mentioned, and looking at
where we're putting ourinvestments into a lot of
Murari's points.
So, thank you very mucheveryone for joining us.
(01:01:29):
I hope that you have gotsomething out of this session.
I certainly have learned a hugeamount, and there's never quite
enough time on these webinars torattle through everything, but
we are going to be doing anotherwebinar very soon.
We have one next month, forwhich we will pop a lovely slide
(01:01:49):
up very shortly.
You can see it right here.
You may recognize some of thesefabulous individuals.
Right here.
You may recognize some of theseum fabulous individuals um.
Anise misagi from pladis.
Uh.
Vildan oppen um.
Oh, my goodness, my dyslexia.
I hope I'm pronouncing thiscorrectly.
But openga um cersei um from um.
(01:02:10):
I've completely forgotten thecompany name, but it will come
straight back to me henkel,henkel, umkel.
A brilliant organisation.
Jenny Hall, who is from RoyalMail, is the Chief Comms Officer
and Eleanor Arribigan, who isGroup Communications for Hiscox.
So brilliant sector agnosticpanel that we have here and just
(01:02:32):
before we go, thank you.
Thank you everyone for all ofthese lovely comments.
I would like to just add finalthought from each of our
panelists, if I may, and withoutputting one spot too much.
Um, um, katherine, I thinkneeds to go, but an
inspirational kind of thought,or just one lasting thing,
whether it is you're givingadvice to your younger self or
it is something to give peopleas a takeaway.
(01:02:52):
Um, could you give me a little?
Um, you know, could be 10, 10,20 seconds to leave the audience
with today and those that arewatching on demand.
Um, geraldine, you've unmutedfirst, or Catherine, you're
already unmuted.
Speaker 5 (01:03:07):
So, catherine, I've got a meeting waiting for me to
join it, so I'm gonna have to go, I'm afraid.
Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
But uh, thank you everybody so much.
We'll go, geraldine.
Thank you, we'll go, geraldine.
Speaker 4 (01:03:21):
Rari Stephen yeah, I just think um do what you
believe is the right thing verywise words, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
I would say do whatever possible to quiet the
noise, invest in your timeyourself, connect with your
values, but ignore the noise.
Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
It's a great dialogue .
I think for me it's aboutaccepting that you can't please
everybody, but don't pleasenobody.
So again, to me it's about youknow what's a value-driven set
of practical actions.
I'd rather help one person thanwrite a better policy that
doesn't really seem to helpanyone right now.
(01:04:05):
Thank you for inviting me tothis panel.
It's been great.
Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Thank you so much, everyone.
If emojis are a sign of howwell it's gone, I would say it's
gone very well.
So thank you all very much.
I know how incredibly busy youare.
I look forward to catching upwith you all.
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