March 10, 2020 • 39 mins
Pac-12 Networks’ Mike Yam and Don MacLean interview former UCLA star and current Pac-12 Networks analyst Earl Watson. Earl tells stories about his time as a player and coach in the NBA (3:07), and remembers a special moment he shared with Gregg Popovich early in his coaching career. He recounts watching multiple future NBA All-Stars work out at the UCLA gym (9:15), and states he would not have had a long NBA career if he did not attend UCLA. Don and Earl emphasize the importance of young players knowing their role when making the jump to the NBA (22:47), and share stories that underscore how well they knew their own strengths and weaknesses. Earl shares the close relationship he has with his former teammate Baron Davis (26:30), and tells an incredible story of Kobe Bryant facing off against Davis while he was at UCLA. Finally, Earl gives his prediction for the upcoming Pac-12 Tournament (31:00).
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Ah Hill, rap the ball,Baby, Let's go. This is Inside
the Pack twelve podcast. Put ona pair of your headphones and fall back.
Listen to some ballcasts having the ballchat about the best conference in the
nation, all facts. This istruly for the hoop. Bluff was get
(00:24):
who running? Then Gunna didn't getin Buggers. How about we discussing why
the Trojans, Husky Ducks to carlinalBen, the Coba Bears, Beavers,
Sun Devil's Cats influence the Buffalos anduns. I won't ever forget got insight,
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as an Inside is old and youngPack twelve legends and the lums that analysis.
(00:45):
We go farmly on the stores totake you from conference play all the
way to the final four with somehoop kind of sword just walking you through
the game. I hit your host, Mike Gammon the board dumb acclaim.
Hey all right, we moved itup a day and for goodery in oh
yeah, the PAC twelve tournament.Normally our guest interview and if you're a
loyal listener to the podcast, thankyou. But you know that usually our
(01:08):
guest interview happens on a Wednesday,but because the PAC twelve tournament starts on
Wednesday, we thought we would moveeverything up just to Smidge. So I'm
actually super excited. Don This isgoing to be like real life story time.
Normally, when I'm working with youon the podcast, usually tell a
story. But when we're in persontogether in the studio or not even in
the studio, just watching games together, I feel like I hear a ton
(01:30):
of stories you haven't been You've beencalling a ton of games. So this
year, Earl Watson has been instudio with us, and it's like a
double treat for me because now Iget you two guys on one show together.
Earl will be with us in Vegasdown You're calling games until the championship
game on Saturday, where you andRichard Jefferson will be with me on the
pre and the post game. ButEarl, along with Maddie Muelbach, is
(01:53):
going to be with me the firstthree days. Eleven thirty am Wednesday,
PAC twelve Network, the three ofus have it the entire day. Earl,
I gotta tell you, man,I'm excited. I've been wanting to
get you on the podcast for awhile. So thanks for spending some time
with us. I mean, thanks, thanks for having me. This would
be really fun, all right,Earl. I guess what I would say,
Earle is aren't you sick of Yam? He's spent all Saturday with him?
(02:15):
How do you agree to do thispodcast today? It's cool hanging with
Mike Man. Mike's cool. It'seasy. You know, we survivee in
cipher basketball all day. It's thankyou for saying the politically correct answer on
air. You could tell Don inVegas how you really feel about working with
me on a regular basis. Youknow, Earl. One of the things
that I love. And this starteda few years ago when Don it was
(02:37):
Kevin O'Neill was the first time he'sworking with us in studio, and Don
had said to me, Hey,when you get ka you got to ask
him about his MBA story. AndI'd said MBA story like he and Don's
like he's gonna know, and Iwas like okay, And then Kao told
me his MBA story. Do younow you're an awesome storyteller? I feel
like every time I work with you, there's a bunch. Do you have
a go to NBA story? Somethinglike I don't know. You're at the
(02:59):
cocktail party or you're giving a speechsomewhere, and there's this one moment that
you just won't forget, and youtell that story consistently. I mean,
as don knows when you're a NBAand blessed it being in for a while.
For me of thirteen years as aplayer, four years coaching, you
have so many stories. I thinkit's a story I never told is my
best coaching story. So we're playingthe Spurs, who hired me after I
(03:20):
retired to join their program for coachingand to kind of tutor me. I'm
the head coach of Phoenix obviously,Pops the head coach of San Antonio.
We're playing them in Mexico City.We both walk out accidentally at the same
time, and we bump into eachother going from the tunnel into the court,
and Pop looks at me and startslaughing, and he goes, I've
never walked out with another coach beforeto coach the game, and like you
(03:43):
know, Pop to me is likemy mentor everything for me basketball And I
started laughing and he grabbed me bymy hand and we held hands walking into
the court, and it's a funnymoment for me speaking of that, l
you're a little bit younger than me. Did they still do when you were
in the league, have the rookieLike everybody's in a tunnel getting ready to
run out, and then you getthe rookie. All the vets get the
(04:03):
rookie to be like, hey,hey, rook lead us out today,
and then they make the rookie runout there and everybody stays back in the
tunnel. Do you guys used todo that? Yeah, that's that's the
classic rookie hazing where you got therookie run out first. By the time
he gets on a QUARTI realizing outthere by himself. Yeah. You know,
it's funny about the Pop story.And I don't know how many people
realize this, but the amount ofwork that you put in on the Spurs
(04:26):
staff. Now, I actually,because I have done on the show with
you, I actually be awesome tohear both of you guys explain this because
Don gets guys ready for the NBAdraft. A lot of our players in
our conference and some of the bestplayers in the entire country. You were
in the front office and you're workingfor Pop for a while in San Antonio
and Donna has praised what the Spurshave done over the years. Can you
(04:46):
paint the picture of some of thethings that you were doing ahead of the
draft or ahead of free agency toget guys to head to San Antonio.
Yeah, the Spurs have a templateon hinto and it's not just random thoughts
or you know, you know informationyou find out. It's an actual strategy
to it, and it's very detail. They're the best in the league at
(05:09):
doing that, and I think that'swhy it's very rare that you see a
situation like a Kawhi Leonard where aguy you know leaves the franchise. It
leads the program because they do sucha great job of combing it through.
You know, they have amazing abilityto connect with players of all types of
backgrounds, and sometimes when they dotheir interview process, they don't even take
(05:29):
you on the court. There's ratherspend an hour or two with you just
finding out who you as a personand when your family is to embrace them
and them to embrace you, tosee if they's energy. You know.
It's interesting about that earle and doingthe draft that I do and watching it
evolve over the last fifteen years theChicago Combine. Now, most people will
(05:50):
tell you the most important part ofthe Chicago Combine isn't the measurable testing,
isn't beyond the court stuff. Itis the interview process. And yeah,
that's important. There's a lot youcan find out about a player fatistics.
You can find that on the internet. You can google that points per game
obviously three point percentage. But whenyou sit and talk to a person,
(06:12):
for me personally, what I wouldlike to find out who you are as
a person, your family structure,and what have you overcame as an individual
in the real world, because thattells me a lot about perseverance and then
just your mindset, Like what areyour thought patterns, what are your habits?
And do you even understand the opportunityof rowing as an individual? You
know that. It's like it's likethe coach Wooden thing. You know,
(06:35):
once you build a man of character, you have better basketball players. But
a man of character has to bebuilt first. The one thing I hear
about a lot though two earle isdo you love the game? And like,
because if you don't love the game, you're not going to do the
work necessary to become a good NBAplayer or a great NBA player. I
hear that comment a lot. Doyou love the game? Yeah? You
(06:56):
know. Kobe called it obsession.The Spurs call it pounding the rock.
There's different types of love. Youhave the love for the game where you
have like a Russell Westbrook, aDame Lillard and Patrick Beverley who all have
different skills, but they love thegame with such an edge and a passion.
And then you have a player likeKobe Bryant who loves the game every
way possible with the skilled he's elite. And then you also have players who
(07:20):
just love to just play basketball.They were put in a little work as
possible, but they're very skilled andyou won't get the most out of their
skill, but they can still besomehow successful. So every player is going
to be different. It's how youseparate those and understand it to get them
inspired and motivated. Earl, isthere a guy that stands out when you
(07:40):
were coaching or playing that is obsessedthe way that you describe at least Kobe's
passion for the game, or someoneelse who was obviously showed that love.
I think somebody that me and donhave, you know, loose mutual partnership
winning development as Devin Booker. DevinI have book definitely was eighteen and Phoenix.
(08:01):
People don't notice, but Dev somehowgot the keys to ASU practice,
Jim to their court and we wouldgo work out there at night and we
would visualize everything that's happening today.Because he wasn't playing at first and he
was complaining, I'll tell him,you know, complaining doesn't work. You
got to get your in gym andwork hard because the opportunity is going to
happen in the NBA. Someone's gonnaget traded, someone's gonna get hurt.
(08:24):
It's always all types of transitional changes. And if you're mentally not prepared,
you would lose your physical opportunity.So we would going at night, we
visualized game winners. We're going tonight and visualize and work on certain plays
that he couldn't plague, that hecouldn't make it eighteen, but maybe he
could make it twenty and twenty one, and we just rep those opportunities offensively.
(08:45):
Speaking of getting in the work,Earl and I read somewhere where after
Kobe's tragic passing, you said thatUCLA should retire his jersey because of all
the work he put in in themen's gym and mentoring all the young guys
that he came across and set thetone for them. And I've made reference
to the men's gym here and thereon this podcast and on different shows,
(09:07):
Thirl, But tell me, tellme about the UCLA men's gym in the
summertime and what it meant for youalong the way. I mean don As
you know, he was there beforeme, and it started with Magic Johnson
coming in seventy nine. Magic wasso young and he's just it's really unique
how Magic unify and inspire a city, and his legacy still lives on because
(09:28):
of the Man's Room, which nowRico Hines kind of took over and leads
in the correct way in the summertime. Is it kind of died off,
but it's basketball ciphering. It wouldbe like the best rappers in the world
getting into one studio four days aweek and just writing rhymes and making songs
so you have you know, futureNBA All Stars where That's why I first
(09:48):
met Russell Westbrook and James Hardly whenthey were fifteen sixteen years old. Gilbert
Renis when he was like Gilbert,I think was probably fourteen as well.
And they grow in that gym andyou get a chance to to be around
Zetts and all stars who are actuallyplanned at that level, like the Kobe
Bryant, who would beat you inthe man's gym three courts, all high
profile players NBA, only UCLA collegeplayers. They would beat you and give
(10:11):
you a welcome knowledge after they beatyou, how they beat you and why
they beat you, and giving youidentity, you know, prep on things
who can work for yourself and putinto your game. So it was the
greatest thing for me as a basketballplayers who I grew as where I say
I played thirteen years in the NBAonly because I played every day in the
summertime at the man's gym. Itprepared me for my career. Let me
(10:33):
ask you this real, sorry,Mike, what this one fall up do
you think? And this isn't todiscount you as a player, but I
know the impact of that men's gym. If you had gone somewhere else for
college, do you think you wouldhave had the NBA career that you have.
No, No, I don't thinkme either. I only say that
because when I first got to UCLA, the first person I met in the
(10:54):
office was coach? Wouldn't then Doug? Who is Doug is? You know
there's a lot of coaches to comethrough, you feel like, but Doug
Eric Ericson is our stable. He'sbeen there for at least twenty five thirty
years. Doug took me from theoffice of meeting Coach Wood into Paulie Pavilion,
and that's where I met Magic Johnson, who was you know, about
to play pick up with Michael Cooperand Norm Nixon, Keikei Vanderway. And
(11:16):
Magic was like, hey, niceto meet you. Welcome. If you
want to get better, be heretomorrow morning at eight. And I got
there the next day at seven o'clock. So like just me being a mentor
about Magic and who and Derek Martinand Mitchell Butler, Champsy Billups, Kobe
Bryant, Shaquille O'Neill. The listgoes on and on, Chris Webber,
Joe Smith, it goes on forever, Norm Nixon. You can't get there
(11:37):
anywhere, You can't get there anywhereelse. So let me get this straight.
Day one on campus in Westwood,you meet John Wooden and Magic Johnson,
and Magic says, be here tomorrowat eight and you show up at
seven. It's on that first day. Yeah, okay, yeah, And
that's that And that's the impact ofUCLA basketball in the man's gym because Hooper's
there all the time. One thingabout NBA players is those who really have
(12:00):
had a LinkedIn career always open togift back to the knowledge. And if
you reach out as a young playerand you show that commitment and passionate about
getting better, they will help youget to wherever you want to be in
your career. And you know what, yeah, it makes more sense.
So UCLA players, you know,every college player wanted to come play in
(12:22):
those games. Only UCLA players wereallowed to play. Not only that,
UCLA players had priority. So likeif if if there was say six UCLA
players that came to play, theywould get on for sure. And so
Earl meeting Magic Magic can't be hereat eight to work out. That was
kind of the respect of the UCLAplayers got from the NBA players. Wow,
(12:46):
can you imagine being a And I'lljust say, I mean your kid,
right, I mean, you're it'sfirst to a on campus. And
that's what the interactions like on daytwo at seven in the morning when you
show up. What actually was thatexperience? Like, I mean, you
gotta understand a lot of coaches startedin that gym too. You have Phil
Webber, who was one of thefirst coaches in basketball to be seen as
(13:09):
a top skills development coach. Andyou also had Neil O'shay starting that gym
as a skill development coach and heis now the GM of the Portland Trailblazers.
So you run into all these,you know, these different type of
resources that can help you get better. For me, it was probably a
week after my eighteenth birthday and Iwas stepping off a plane from Kansas.
(13:31):
So for me, it was like, it was so unbelievable to be here
with everyone I've seen on TV,everyone I dreamed about, and to have
them actually take a part in mydevelopment and then compete against them at a
high level showed me that athleticism andskill is important, but most importantly in
the mindset and understanding why you dowhat you do as a player, in
the timing of doing it. Youknow, when I knew we were having
(13:54):
your honor all, I was excitedbecause you have the unique perspective in a
different lens than most that you've you'vebeen, You've been in a high level
college player, an NBA player,you've coached in the NBA, you've been
in the front office, you've runand also you've run you ran an elite
AU travel program for a while.And the reason I'm excited is you don't
get that perspective very often. There'snot many people that have done all that.
(14:16):
So I'm curious where you think it'sout right now with AU basketball.
Is it pertains to translating to thecollege level and then translating if you're a
one and done type guy to theNBA, Like, where is all that
right now? If you're a highlevel high school player in the AU circuit.
I think every program is different.For me, I had Earl Watson
(14:39):
the league which is now West CoastElague, and for me, structure is
everything. And I think overall itneeds more structure because summertime basketball, as
you've done, as you know,is the most critical for development. It's
where you actually get better, iswhere you can actually build strengths. This
where you can actually work on yourskill. There's no time in the season
to those to do those three thingshim at all, it becomes team games.
(15:01):
It has to be more structure towhere it's precise and structure and number
of games have to be limited perday because that's when you start getting to
the wear and terrible body. Andkids don't see it when they're eighteen or
nineteen. They see it when theyturn twenty three to twenty eight if they
play longer than you know, theaverage career and go to a professional league.
(15:22):
So that has to be toned downfor long term effects. For help.
The next thing is too many emphasisbeing put on the shoe deal,
you know, the travel, theyou know, the optics of being on
the best team instead of being onthe right team. Because not all top
programs have the greatest coaches and developers. You have to have an identity as
(15:43):
a player in order to have anopportunity in a career as a player,
and kids don't get that. Sowhat is your identity and molding that is
shaping that at a younger age givesyou more success later in life. Earl
In terms of that development, Dotand I have about this. We do
a segment on our other podcasts,you know, Path to the NBA,
(16:03):
and I always find it fascinating becauseDon will sometimes analyze a guy and they
might be a freshman, a oneand done player, or some weeks it's
actually an upperclassman and it's a senior. But don we've been doing this podcast
for two years. More times thannot it's not the upper classman that we're
discussing. So Earl, like,what do you say to guys that you're
mentoring that are in college that wantto get to the NBA but they're they're
(16:27):
not sure. It's you know,maybe they're not one and done or two
and through or it almost feels likeif you're a senior, it's working against
you. If you're a four yearplayer coming out, Yeah, and maybe
it is in your draft process.I know where you get drafted as a
senior, But longevity is more importantthan you know, more money in one
year. And I'll say this allthe time the NBA player coming into the
(16:49):
league or come or trying to attemptto come into the league, you should
understand your identity as a player first. And if you can understand that early
in life, you're you're blessed.I was lucky to have I played on
Matt the teams at UCLA in thesummertime, and that team had so many
veteran NBA players. He told me, your identity is to play defense,
(17:10):
pick up full court, change thepace of the game if it scales down,
and stay in the corner and getready to shoot. And that almost
became my identity from my entire NBAcareer until I had opportunities to start.
Then it grows, but it gaveme thirteen years its ticks one point guard
from Kansas who I wasn't jumping likeBaron Davis. So I was lucky to
have that mode and I accepted whoI was, and it made me have
(17:33):
longer years, more money than mostplayers who came out during my draft.
So you have to understand that,and you have to have those conversations,
but you also have to have theright coach or player to tell you who
you are and what's best for yourgame. And it's so frustrating, Earle,
because it seems and maybe it's easyfor us because we played in the
(17:55):
league for a while and we understandit. But why more kids aren't told
dad, and why more kids don'tunderstand that. You still go watch high
level AU basketball, it's just atract meet. Everybody presses a pickup pull
and everything finishes with a layup ora dunk, and it's like, it
frustrates me that more guys don't haveyour perspective and pull kids aside and say,
(18:15):
look, it's great that you're bigand you're athletic, but if you
don't develop any skill, there's noway you're going to play in the league
for twelve years. And that's whatthis is all about. You're not going
to be Lebron, You're not gonnabe James Harden, but you can be
a twelve year NBA player if youdevelop a skill set in an identity.
Yeah, I mean players, youngplayers have to look at the bigger picture.
(18:37):
And Rico o'hani's talking about it.He's the bigger picture all the time.
The bigger picture isn't you know whereI'm drafted or how famous I am.
The bigger picture is how long canI play in the NBA to deliver
a platform that I can have successafter basketball. Whether I can be on
a podcast I can own with twoguys, well, I can come into
(18:59):
the PAC twelve network and jump onTV or NBA TV for me or coaching
or front office and creating a freeagency pitches full of Marcus Audrists with Sean
marks for the Spurs, Like thelonger you play, the more opportunity you're
going to have to be successful andto do more things like me creating and
starting an app in the tech world. Like that's all a part of character,
(19:21):
integrity, sacrifice and understanding my limitationsand really trying to master the best
at being the only one I canbe, and that's myself. Earl,
you just said something in kind ofpassing. It was a one off,
and I you've told me the storybefore, so I think our listeners would
love to hear it. You justmentioned that the deck that you put together
for LaMarcus Aldrits when he was afree agent, many of us and I
(19:45):
didn't understand kind of what was involvedin that, and I would imagine most
of our listeners don't either. Canyou just speak to what that process is
like as a team is trying topitch a high level NBA guy because you
were a part of that with sanAntonio and then from what I remember,
yeah, the process is rigorous.So when I retired from the NBA as
(20:06):
a player, my last stop wasimportant. The Spurs hired me into the
G League, where I was anassistant, and we made it to the
Western Conference Finals and lost the lastgame elimination game to go to the finals.
I believe we should have won.We could have won, and we
had Jay Michael Green, we hadsome really good, high level NBA players
and Spurs regretted doing that. CalAnderson And during that time I was working
(20:30):
in the G League. Another youknow task for me with the Spurs.
I was working with Sean Marks tocreate a free agency pitch for La Marcus
La Marcus Aldridge. And in thatpitch where you know, most players,
most teams and programs pitch money andnow everyone has money, so that no
(20:51):
longer matters. They pitched playing time, they pitch bill boards. This is
high level of players. They pitched, you know, unique opportunities, business
opportunities in years city where you haveto offer. We took it upon ourselves,
me and shann to pitch family andyou know, I really gave him
like, you know, we haveto pitch his mom, we have to
pitch his kid, we have tofind out and Sean brought in with the
(21:12):
Spurs. You know, it's reallyunique and different. They go deeper.
They want to go like favorite food, you know, residency, what a
type of neighborhood he likes to livein. It's so detailed and so deep
that we connect deeper than just abusiness deal. We connected as family.
We connected as you know, longterm relationships, and we connected to his
(21:36):
family. And when I became anassistant from moving from the G League from
San Antonio to Phoenix, it wasa hard decision to leave the Spurs.
But no one ever leaves the Spurs, so I'm like, there's no roof
for me to really grow in thisorganization. So of course I'm going to
take a better job in Phoenix,which Nilo'shay kind of prompted prompted me too,
and I became an assistant. Iwas like a low level assistant,
(22:00):
and I happened to come and havethe pitch ideas that I created for the
Spurs. I brought it to theSuns and now I'm in that free agency
pitch. So it came down tous, which we beat out the Knicks
and the Lakers, which wasn't hardto do at that time. It was
us, the Phoenix Suns, whowas known for not winning, you know,
was still the same kind of samekind of you know, resume,
(22:21):
and the Spurs and RC sees meand goes, thanks for almost my summer.
It's like like, see, likeyou you kind of gave me.
You know, you taught me toowell. You said it, like you
know you taught me too well.I'm a student of yours. And obviously
he went to San Antonio, whichwas the right choice, but just being
in the end and having an opportunitywas big for our organization when I was
(22:45):
with Phoenix tying those two things together. Early AU stuff we were talking about
and then the NBA stuff. Aguy that was very unique that came through
our league the last few years asMatisse Stybel, and for me, he
really jumped off the page. I'dnever seen a guy I cover as much
ground as quick as he did.His willingness to be an elite defender.
(23:07):
You know, wasn't a great shooter, not a bad shooter, but wasn't
as interested in scoring as he wasdefending. And you're looking around and I
think he averaged nine points a gameat Washington and here he is the twentieth
pick in the first round of theNBA draft. And people you know that
don't really understand the game, don'tunderstand that you can go different routes of
(23:29):
getting to the NBA. How muchhow much has that talked about, not
only when evaluating a player in thefront office, but also going back to
your AU days and telling a kid, hey, you may not be the
greatest offensive player, but there's adifferent path to the NBA as well.
Yeah, absolutely bring a synergy tothe whole, you know, a conversation
with having that's a kid who knowshis identity. He understands he's a defender.
(23:52):
He understands as well if he understandshow he can change the game on
the court on the defensive end,which gives them opportunities office leads to develop
and as a coach, you say, hey, I can teach a kid
how to make a corner three.I can't teach kids how to play defense
because defense is a technique to it. But there's also an inner will that
no one can put into you.You have to put it into yourself.
(24:14):
So he understands that he's now withthe Sixers, So for millions kind of
for him, it's really unique becauseI always think great wing defenders need to
be with scoring point guards, andBen is almost not a scoring point guard.
So I think that's where they kindof have those troubles that are all
these amazing pieces, but they don'thave a dominant score at that point position
(24:37):
who can shoot and stretch the court. You know, don if you got
two players in the backcourt who can'tshoot, I don't really have to go
out a perimeter. I can digall day on MB and I can just
contest late on the perimeter. Soyou gotta have checks and balances, and
you know, players in different positionshave to almost have the synergy of different
(24:57):
skills in order for it to work. Just a reminder for you two,
I did not possess that inner wellthat Earl was talking about. Hey,
you remind me a Mimido core whowas my teammate And you thought I was
telling yam like, you know,we'd be on Defen's blay memo. You
have to roadtate and x out youknow what means, you know, go
(25:18):
from the nail to the rim.You know, when we send the fender
sent offense baseline, you gotta getthat. He was like, Oh,
buddy, buddy, don't worry aboutthat. Just push the ball really fast
and turn around. I troll fora three. Good job of the place.
Sounds about right. I think Igot into bad habits though, Earl.
Early in my career I played withmy Tumbo and I got traded there
(25:38):
right before the season started, andliterally the first practice, he goes,
McClane, you let him go.I block it. Oh yeah, it
was good. Then three straight andI was like, I was like the
kemba. I don't have to lethim go. He's just gonna go buy
me anyway. Hey, Earl,I want to be respectful of time,
(26:02):
and I know you got to getrunning in a few minutes, but I
do want to ask you about oneguy who was your teammate who quite honestly,
and I don't know if I evertold you the story, and we've
worked together enough, but Baron Davisis one of my favorite players of all
time. In fact, the dunkon Carolinko. God, I mean I
just watched it on YouTube as wewere doing the show, like ten times.
(26:22):
I can't it just it's stuck inmy memory. It's still the best
dunk I've ever seen in a gamebefore. Can you like when you reflect
back? Because every time I workwith you, you tell me like ten
different Baron Davis stories and I loveevery single one of them. But is
there a moment. You guys roommates, You guys are still tight to this
day. Is there something if Ijust say Baron Davis, like first thoughts
(26:44):
that come out of your mind orfirst story like what resonates Nike Camp?
We met at Nike Camp. Wewas like probably sifteen or sixteen years old.
We were teammates and we dominated allthe games. And I think we
played so well together that UCLA oneof us as a pack it's freshman backcourt
deal together, which we didn't tellanyone that we wanted to go to school
together. We just kind of playedit out and he saw opportunities and took
(27:07):
it. Obviously for him, welived there in the whole tradition, and
for me, I grew up inthe same neighborhood as Lucius Allen, who
was a legendary use points rather toplay for Wood, and I've always wanted
to go there, So we becamebrothers. And then I moved to la
in May of my senior year andlived with his grandmother in South Central and
eighty seventh I believe, And fromthat moment on we became you know,
(27:29):
inseparable from you know, summertime livingtogether with him in his community in south
central Los Angeles, to moving intogether as freshman, to the dorms,
to going to play you know,pick up and taking all our classes together,
and seeing Kobe going to the WoodenCenter eight in the morning, coming
out at two thirty right before weplayed through, Like damn, Kobe's really
committed to play in the pickup games, like damn. Like done, throws
(27:52):
the most elbows one day, wehave to jump it like it's like it's
just like everything that we do together, we did together. And Baron is
the most interesting, unique person onEarth. He's one of the best basketball
IQs. I I call it patternplayers and non pattern players. Bands a
non patterned player, which means hedoesn't need offense to shift the defense and
(28:15):
make things happen some to Lebron someof the Kyrie similar to Stephs and to
Kevin Durant and Kobe and Mike.He just knows how to make it happen.
And I think my favorite Baron storyis during the lockout of the late
nineties, I believe it's ninety eightseason. It was a great lockout and
(28:38):
so all the India players hung aroundUCLA and live. Let Kobe come work
out in the gym when we havepractice in Pauli. So Kobe over there
getting up shots with his trainer.Baron was coming off of ACL injury,
and what we noticed was, youknow, a band started rebounding for Kobe.
So whenever Kobe came into the gym, then tensy practice is always picked
(29:00):
up. Because Kobe's in the gym, right, you want to show him
that everyone had that mentality because he'sour age. Winning championships was amazing,
and so Baron is, you know, in the brace, he's barely you
know, jogging rebounding for Kobe.Kobe's getting upsides winning in one of our
famous Steve Laven four hour practices,four to six seventeens of practice, he
(29:23):
you know, pat Riley style,and we look over to the next court
and we hear custom and it's bearingin Kobe playing one on one. They
doing elbows at each other. They'retalking trash to each other's nasty, you
know, crossovers, pivots, spadeaways, you know, dunks. It's just
it's tough, man, And soour whole practice stops, and lab is
(29:44):
blowing the whistle trying to get themto stop, because obviously he wants bearing
to come back healthy. They don'tstop, so we crowd the court and
we just admire too great basketball,skilled personalities and players going at it one
on one and they're sweating there sweatsand it was the most surreal, organic,
natural one on one store I've everseen or have been a part of
(30:07):
my life. And to this day, I truly believe NBA All Star has
to allow a one on one challenge. Three jibbles max. Three jibbles max
is NBA rule, And the game'sabout once only and the most you're gonna
go to a seven points. There'snothing above seven. So you go top
of the key, you go wing, you go midpost, you go elbows,
(30:27):
and it's just the skill just comesout. It's it's awesome. Who
Yeah, I totally agree Baron orKobe? Who won? Come one on?
Someone's listening now and they want toknow. I mean, I can't
not ask. That would have beenmy guests, But I'm just know you
just got to do the right thingthere. Well, this has been awesome
(30:51):
stuff, Earl, but I feellike this is the inside the PAC twelve
Men's basketball podcast, so I haveto at least ask you one Pac twelve
question. I'm gonna make it simple. Who's winning. Who's winning the PAC
twelve tournament? Man, I'm gonnasay, um, you know, as
we know, the PAC twelve isvolatile in a good way where anyone can
be beat at any time. ButI'm going with Oregon as a favorite obviously
(31:11):
because I think Pritch has been therebefore. And just watching his last game,
he came out on a mission toclose out his career regular season.
You could see it pull up threefrom half court, attacking the paint.
Just he was playing at a high. He's playing like a late to early
first round, late a late firstround, early second round NBA player.
(31:33):
He has the will to win,and when he comes into this tournament,
I think he's going to separate himselfas far as skill, confidence and you
know, kind of knowledge of beinghere, done that, and it's time
to put a stamp and seal onmy career in the PAC twelve. Absolutely
love it. Earl. Can't thankyou enough for spending some time with us
(31:55):
here on the podcast. We couldhave gotten, you know, another hour,
hour and a half, two hoursfirst listening to some of these stories
and hearing from me listening to youand don go back and forth on some
of the stuff is awesome. Um. The good news for everyone who's listening
to the show, Earl, You'reon PAC twelve network with me and Matt
Muilbach for the first three days ofthe tournament. We all get it underway
eleven thirty am Pacific time on PACtwelve Network, getting everyone set for the
(32:17):
Oregon State Utah game, and we'retaking everyone through the entire course of the
day through the postgame show at thevery end of the night, all three
days of the tournament, and thendon me, you and Richard Jefferson have
everyone covered with our championship pregame andpostgame show once again on PAC twelve Network.
Earl, you've been crushing for usall season long. Thanks again.
(32:38):
Safe travels to Vegas. I gotextra hand sanitizer for you when you lad.
I've been stocking up on that andI've already talked to our crew to
make sure that we have some chloroxwipes at the at the set for us,
so we will be in good shapein Vegas. Dam wait up to
see all you guys sown and likeI know, I see you this week.
(32:58):
Thanks guys. All right, John, I know you and I are
are excited for the Pact twelve tournamentthis week. Yesterday's podcast, we went
through the entire brackets, so encouragepeople to go and check that out.
Awesome to have Earl with us twoNBA. He was great, He was
great. I mean, it's betweenthe two of you, guys, what
does that twenty three years of NBAexperience, not counting earls four years as
(33:19):
a coach as well anything When youlisten to him talk about players and his
specific experience, you know what,I actually screw that? How about what
he was talking about it UCLA becauseI had known some of those things from
the stories that he's told me inthe stories that you've told me. But
what surprised me, and you askedhim this was, hey, would you
have be the NBA player if youthat you were, had you not going
(33:40):
to use CLA? And he saidno, and you said the same thing
for you. I don't know ifI've heard you talk about CLA and your
time there like that before. Well, it's it's it's obviously UCLA and it's
a high profile program. But whatthe what the men's gym does for you
is it gives you confidence because whenyou spend two and a half months playing
(34:01):
against NBA players every day. Youknow it's not going to go well for
you all the time. But whenyou when you leave the gym and you
had a couple moments and then maybethe next day you have a couple more,
you start to build confidence that hey, I can play with these guys.
And yes, there are players thatdon't go to UCLA to get the
chance to scrimmage against NBA players atdifferent camps and different things, but this
(34:24):
is at least back then when Earland I were around at UCLA, it
was every day for like two anda half months, and or four days
a week for two and a halfmonths, and so it's such an advantage
and was such an advantage for UCLAplayers because it's not like you're standing around
and waiting for all the pros tobe done playing and then you get on.
(34:45):
You are on with the NBA playerslike you are. Your credentials are
exactly the same, because that's theway that it always was that UCLA players
have priority, just like if MagicJohn or James Worthy or Michael Cooper walks
in here. And so that's whyI asked him that question because I know
(35:07):
for myself maybe I would have madeit to the NBA regardless, but I
know that that was a huge partof me getting to the NBA. Don
real quick here, just you weregod coming out of high school. I
mean did you Did you have teammatesthat played high Division one at other schools
at my high school? Yeah?Like I'm just thinking, like, did
(35:29):
you commune? I would imagine likeyou had friends I played at other established
programs. Maybe they weren't just yourteammates in high school, but like,
I can't even imagine you being ableto tell one of your friends that plays
at school. X, Hey hereat UCLA, I'm playing with insert magic
or whatever NBA play you were goingto remember? Remember the story I told
(35:50):
earlier in the year the first day, first day of freshman summer program,
which it coincides with I'm playing againstJames Worthy. Yeah, yeah, And
that's nineteen eighty eight when James Worthyis like an All Star every year James
Worthy, And so yeah, Imean telling your friends, They're like,
no way. But people could comewatch, Like the gym on a lot
of days was I wouldn't say itwas like standing room only, but there
(36:12):
was a lot of people there towatch and so you would see it.
You know, if you had friendsthat wanted to come watch, they could.
It's not like they, you know, you had to have a ticket
or anything, but yeah, itwas. It was really good stuff and
in a huge advantage to for notonly recruiting for the UCLA coaches, but
obviously for the players that played there. All Right, one other point I
(36:35):
just want to make here in thankingEarl on coming on the show, and
it reminds me of a story thatyou told a while ago, Don,
And I'm embarrassed because I don't knowif that was the podcaster in real life
story, but you told me abouthow a lot of athletes struggle to make
a successful transition from being a playerto back in the real world, not
sure what they're going to do.And you spent a lot of time,
(36:58):
a lot of your friends, you'rea lot of your teammates have have undergone
that process, Don, You've doneit as successfully, I think is as
anyone. And I can't speak enoughabout Earl's transition for player to coach and
now what he's doing on the televisionside with us A pactwelve Network. He
also works at NBA TV, andit's just not the TV thing. The
other interest. He mentioned his app. He was telling me about some of
(37:20):
the things that he's working on,some of the heavy hitters at really established
companies that are helping him and nowworking with him on the app. Like,
it just speaks to the maturity thatEarl has. A shouldn't say maturity
were at the same age, butyou know what I'm saying, like just
to you know what, Yeah,you know what, you know what it
speaks to him. It speaks tohow smart he is. Yeah, you
know, Earl wasn't a tremendous athlete. You know, he was a good
(37:40):
athlete in a in a skilled player, but he got to the NBA by
being smart and you can you canhear that in this podcast. Um.
And so the smart guys that stayin the league for thirteen years, you
would imagine are going to be smartafterward as well. And that's what Earl's
done. And I think he understands. He understood that there had to be
(38:04):
a transition from playing to what he'sgoing to do next. But typically the
smart guys are able to make thattransition and do it, and he has.
Yeah, I've said this, donI don't even know if I told
you this, but Doug Gottlieb theother day had tweeted out how good of
a job you do on our games? And I saw Doug. He was
in Corvallis, yeah, on Saturday, because he had the game in Eugene
(38:24):
on Saturday night, so he cameto the Oregon State game, so I
talked him for a few yeah.So he had tweeted that, and I
had retweeted it saying, Hey,like, every time I watch your games,
and I'm not just saying this goodfor friends, but legitimately, every
time I watch one of your games, I learned something. And same thing
on the studio side. But Ican't say this enough. Lucky to have
you at PAC twelve network. Andthe same with Earl, because if you're
(38:45):
in our touchdown room, which iswhere our green room we were watching games.
To listen to Earl and the thingsand watch him pick up different things,
it's it's like I'm being in therewith you. I mean, it's
the same type of deals. Sowhen you have guys at basketball Acumen,
it really does help out a lotof our shows. So just makes me
a little bit more excited for ourcoverage to this week on PAC twelve Network
(39:07):
with Vegas around the corner. Donawesome job by you. I will see
you in Vegas and we'll be readyto rock and roll. And I encourage
everyone to share the podcast on socialmedia and check out some of our shows.
You're a basketball fan, it isBasketball Heaven in Vegas this coming weekend
on PAC twelve now
Ah Hill, rap the ball,Baby, Let's go. This is Inside
the Pack twelve podcast. Put ona pair of your headphones and fall back.
Listen to some ballcasts having the ballchat about the best conference in the
nation, all facts. This istruly for the hoop. Bluff was get
(00:24):
who running? Then Gunna didn't getin Buggers. How about we discussing why
the Trojans, Husky Ducks to carlinalBen, the Coba Bears, Beavers,
Sun Devil's Cats influence the Buffalos anduns. I won't ever forget got insight,
opinions, and plenty of special guests, coaches and players, be writer
as an Inside is old and youngPack twelve legends and the lums that analysis.
(00:45):
We go farmly on the stores totake you from conference play all the
way to the final four with somehoop kind of sword just walking you through
the game. I hit your host, Mike Gammon the board dumb acclaim.
Hey all right, we moved itup a day and for goodery in oh
yeah, the PAC twelve tournament.Normally our guest interview and if you're a
loyal listener to the podcast, thankyou. But you know that usually our
(01:08):
guest interview happens on a Wednesday,but because the PAC twelve tournament starts on
Wednesday, we thought we would moveeverything up just to Smidge. So I'm
actually super excited. Don This isgoing to be like real life story time.
Normally, when I'm working with youon the podcast, usually tell a
story. But when we're in persontogether in the studio or not even in
the studio, just watching games together, I feel like I hear a ton
(01:30):
of stories you haven't been You've beencalling a ton of games. So this
year, Earl Watson has been instudio with us, and it's like a
double treat for me because now Iget you two guys on one show together.
Earl will be with us in Vegasdown You're calling games until the championship
game on Saturday, where you andRichard Jefferson will be with me on the
pre and the post game. ButEarl, along with Maddie Muelbach, is
(01:53):
going to be with me the firstthree days. Eleven thirty am Wednesday,
PAC twelve Network, the three ofus have it the entire day. Earl,
I gotta tell you, man,I'm excited. I've been wanting to
get you on the podcast for awhile. So thanks for spending some time
with us. I mean, thanks, thanks for having me. This would
be really fun, all right,Earl. I guess what I would say,
Earle is aren't you sick of Yam? He's spent all Saturday with him?
(02:15):
How do you agree to do thispodcast today? It's cool hanging with
Mike Man. Mike's cool. It'seasy. You know, we survivee in
cipher basketball all day. It's thankyou for saying the politically correct answer on
air. You could tell Don inVegas how you really feel about working with
me on a regular basis. Youknow, Earl. One of the things
that I love. And this starteda few years ago when Don it was
(02:37):
Kevin O'Neill was the first time he'sworking with us in studio, and Don
had said to me, Hey,when you get ka you got to ask
him about his MBA story. AndI'd said MBA story like he and Don's
like he's gonna know, and Iwas like okay, And then Kao told
me his MBA story. Do younow you're an awesome storyteller? I feel
like every time I work with you, there's a bunch. Do you have
a go to NBA story? Somethinglike I don't know. You're at the
(02:59):
cocktail party or you're giving a speechsomewhere, and there's this one moment that
you just won't forget, and youtell that story consistently. I mean,
as don knows when you're a NBAand blessed it being in for a while.
For me of thirteen years as aplayer, four years coaching, you
have so many stories. I thinkit's a story I never told is my
best coaching story. So we're playingthe Spurs, who hired me after I
(03:20):
retired to join their program for coachingand to kind of tutor me. I'm
the head coach of Phoenix obviously,Pops the head coach of San Antonio.
We're playing them in Mexico City.We both walk out accidentally at the same
time, and we bump into eachother going from the tunnel into the court,
and Pop looks at me and startslaughing, and he goes, I've
never walked out with another coach beforeto coach the game, and like you
(03:43):
know, Pop to me is likemy mentor everything for me basketball And I
started laughing and he grabbed me bymy hand and we held hands walking into
the court, and it's a funnymoment for me speaking of that, l
you're a little bit younger than me. Did they still do when you were
in the league, have the rookieLike everybody's in a tunnel getting ready to
run out, and then you getthe rookie. All the vets get the
(04:03):
rookie to be like, hey,hey, rook lead us out today,
and then they make the rookie runout there and everybody stays back in the
tunnel. Do you guys used todo that? Yeah, that's that's the
classic rookie hazing where you got therookie run out first. By the time
he gets on a QUARTI realizing outthere by himself. Yeah. You know,
it's funny about the Pop story.And I don't know how many people
realize this, but the amount ofwork that you put in on the Spurs
(04:26):
staff. Now, I actually,because I have done on the show with
you, I actually be awesome tohear both of you guys explain this because
Don gets guys ready for the NBAdraft. A lot of our players in
our conference and some of the bestplayers in the entire country. You were
in the front office and you're workingfor Pop for a while in San Antonio
and Donna has praised what the Spurshave done over the years. Can you
(04:46):
paint the picture of some of thethings that you were doing ahead of the
draft or ahead of free agency toget guys to head to San Antonio.
Yeah, the Spurs have a templateon hinto and it's not just random thoughts
or you know, you know informationyou find out. It's an actual strategy
to it, and it's very detail. They're the best in the league at
(05:09):
doing that, and I think that'swhy it's very rare that you see a
situation like a Kawhi Leonard where aguy you know leaves the franchise. It
leads the program because they do sucha great job of combing it through.
You know, they have amazing abilityto connect with players of all types of
backgrounds, and sometimes when they dotheir interview process, they don't even take
(05:29):
you on the court. There's ratherspend an hour or two with you just
finding out who you as a personand when your family is to embrace them
and them to embrace you, tosee if they's energy. You know.
It's interesting about that earle and doingthe draft that I do and watching it
evolve over the last fifteen years theChicago Combine. Now, most people will
(05:50):
tell you the most important part ofthe Chicago Combine isn't the measurable testing,
isn't beyond the court stuff. Itis the interview process. And yeah,
that's important. There's a lot youcan find out about a player fatistics.
You can find that on the internet. You can google that points per game
obviously three point percentage. But whenyou sit and talk to a person,
(06:12):
for me personally, what I wouldlike to find out who you are as
a person, your family structure,and what have you overcame as an individual
in the real world, because thattells me a lot about perseverance and then
just your mindset, Like what areyour thought patterns, what are your habits?
And do you even understand the opportunityof rowing as an individual? You
know that. It's like it's likethe coach Wooden thing. You know,
(06:35):
once you build a man of character, you have better basketball players. But
a man of character has to bebuilt first. The one thing I hear
about a lot though two earle isdo you love the game? And like,
because if you don't love the game, you're not going to do the
work necessary to become a good NBAplayer or a great NBA player. I
hear that comment a lot. Doyou love the game? Yeah? You
(06:56):
know. Kobe called it obsession.The Spurs call it pounding the rock.
There's different types of love. Youhave the love for the game where you
have like a Russell Westbrook, aDame Lillard and Patrick Beverley who all have
different skills, but they love thegame with such an edge and a passion.
And then you have a player likeKobe Bryant who loves the game every
way possible with the skilled he's elite. And then you also have players who
(07:20):
just love to just play basketball.They were put in a little work as
possible, but they're very skilled andyou won't get the most out of their
skill, but they can still besomehow successful. So every player is going
to be different. It's how youseparate those and understand it to get them
inspired and motivated. Earl, isthere a guy that stands out when you
(07:40):
were coaching or playing that is obsessedthe way that you describe at least Kobe's
passion for the game, or someoneelse who was obviously showed that love.
I think somebody that me and donhave, you know, loose mutual partnership
winning development as Devin Booker. DevinI have book definitely was eighteen and Phoenix.
(08:01):
People don't notice, but Dev somehowgot the keys to ASU practice,
Jim to their court and we wouldgo work out there at night and we
would visualize everything that's happening today.Because he wasn't playing at first and he
was complaining, I'll tell him,you know, complaining doesn't work. You
got to get your in gym andwork hard because the opportunity is going to
happen in the NBA. Someone's gonnaget traded, someone's gonna get hurt.
(08:24):
It's always all types of transitional changes. And if you're mentally not prepared,
you would lose your physical opportunity.So we would going at night, we
visualized game winners. We're going tonight and visualize and work on certain plays
that he couldn't plague, that hecouldn't make it eighteen, but maybe he
could make it twenty and twenty one, and we just rep those opportunities offensively.
(08:45):
Speaking of getting in the work,Earl and I read somewhere where after
Kobe's tragic passing, you said thatUCLA should retire his jersey because of all
the work he put in in themen's gym and mentoring all the young guys
that he came across and set thetone for them. And I've made reference
to the men's gym here and thereon this podcast and on different shows,
(09:07):
Thirl, But tell me, tellme about the UCLA men's gym in the
summertime and what it meant for youalong the way. I mean don As
you know, he was there beforeme, and it started with Magic Johnson
coming in seventy nine. Magic wasso young and he's just it's really unique
how Magic unify and inspire a city, and his legacy still lives on because
(09:28):
of the Man's Room, which nowRico Hines kind of took over and leads
in the correct way in the summertime. Is it kind of died off,
but it's basketball ciphering. It wouldbe like the best rappers in the world
getting into one studio four days aweek and just writing rhymes and making songs
so you have you know, futureNBA All Stars where That's why I first
(09:48):
met Russell Westbrook and James Hardly whenthey were fifteen sixteen years old. Gilbert
Renis when he was like Gilbert,I think was probably fourteen as well.
And they grow in that gym andyou get a chance to to be around
Zetts and all stars who are actuallyplanned at that level, like the Kobe
Bryant, who would beat you inthe man's gym three courts, all high
profile players NBA, only UCLA collegeplayers. They would beat you and give
(10:11):
you a welcome knowledge after they beatyou, how they beat you and why
they beat you, and giving youidentity, you know, prep on things
who can work for yourself and putinto your game. So it was the
greatest thing for me as a basketballplayers who I grew as where I say
I played thirteen years in the NBAonly because I played every day in the
summertime at the man's gym. Itprepared me for my career. Let me
(10:33):
ask you this real, sorry,Mike, what this one fall up do
you think? And this isn't todiscount you as a player, but I
know the impact of that men's gym. If you had gone somewhere else for
college, do you think you wouldhave had the NBA career that you have.
No, No, I don't thinkme either. I only say that
because when I first got to UCLA, the first person I met in the
(10:54):
office was coach? Wouldn't then Doug? Who is Doug is? You know
there's a lot of coaches to comethrough, you feel like, but Doug
Eric Ericson is our stable. He'sbeen there for at least twenty five thirty
years. Doug took me from theoffice of meeting Coach Wood into Paulie Pavilion,
and that's where I met Magic Johnson, who was you know, about
to play pick up with Michael Cooperand Norm Nixon, Keikei Vanderway. And
(11:16):
Magic was like, hey, niceto meet you. Welcome. If you
want to get better, be heretomorrow morning at eight. And I got
there the next day at seven o'clock. So like just me being a mentor
about Magic and who and Derek Martinand Mitchell Butler, Champsy Billups, Kobe
Bryant, Shaquille O'Neill. The listgoes on and on, Chris Webber,
Joe Smith, it goes on forever, Norm Nixon. You can't get there
(11:37):
anywhere, You can't get there anywhereelse. So let me get this straight.
Day one on campus in Westwood,you meet John Wooden and Magic Johnson,
and Magic says, be here tomorrowat eight and you show up at
seven. It's on that first day. Yeah, okay, yeah, And
that's that And that's the impact ofUCLA basketball in the man's gym because Hooper's
there all the time. One thingabout NBA players is those who really have
(12:00):
had a LinkedIn career always open togift back to the knowledge. And if
you reach out as a young playerand you show that commitment and passionate about
getting better, they will help youget to wherever you want to be in
your career. And you know what, yeah, it makes more sense.
So UCLA players, you know,every college player wanted to come play in
(12:22):
those games. Only UCLA players wereallowed to play. Not only that,
UCLA players had priority. So likeif if if there was say six UCLA
players that came to play, theywould get on for sure. And so
Earl meeting Magic Magic can't be hereat eight to work out. That was
kind of the respect of the UCLAplayers got from the NBA players. Wow,
(12:46):
can you imagine being a And I'lljust say, I mean your kid,
right, I mean, you're it'sfirst to a on campus. And
that's what the interactions like on daytwo at seven in the morning when you
show up. What actually was thatexperience? Like, I mean, you
gotta understand a lot of coaches startedin that gym too. You have Phil
Webber, who was one of thefirst coaches in basketball to be seen as
(13:09):
a top skills development coach. Andyou also had Neil O'shay starting that gym
as a skill development coach and heis now the GM of the Portland Trailblazers.
So you run into all these,you know, these different type of
resources that can help you get better. For me, it was probably a
week after my eighteenth birthday and Iwas stepping off a plane from Kansas.
(13:31):
So for me, it was like, it was so unbelievable to be here
with everyone I've seen on TV,everyone I dreamed about, and to have
them actually take a part in mydevelopment and then compete against them at a
high level showed me that athleticism andskill is important, but most importantly in
the mindset and understanding why you dowhat you do as a player, in
the timing of doing it. Youknow, when I knew we were having
(13:54):
your honor all, I was excitedbecause you have the unique perspective in a
different lens than most that you've you'vebeen, You've been in a high level
college player, an NBA player,you've coached in the NBA, you've been
in the front office, you've runand also you've run you ran an elite
AU travel program for a while.And the reason I'm excited is you don't
get that perspective very often. There'snot many people that have done all that.
(14:16):
So I'm curious where you think it'sout right now with AU basketball.
Is it pertains to translating to thecollege level and then translating if you're a
one and done type guy to theNBA, Like, where is all that
right now? If you're a highlevel high school player in the AU circuit.
I think every program is different.For me, I had Earl Watson
(14:39):
the league which is now West CoastElague, and for me, structure is
everything. And I think overall itneeds more structure because summertime basketball, as
you've done, as you know,is the most critical for development. It's
where you actually get better, iswhere you can actually build strengths. This
where you can actually work on yourskill. There's no time in the season
to those to do those three thingshim at all, it becomes team games.
(15:01):
It has to be more structure towhere it's precise and structure and number
of games have to be limited perday because that's when you start getting to
the wear and terrible body. Andkids don't see it when they're eighteen or
nineteen. They see it when theyturn twenty three to twenty eight if they
play longer than you know, theaverage career and go to a professional league.
(15:22):
So that has to be toned downfor long term effects. For help.
The next thing is too many emphasisbeing put on the shoe deal,
you know, the travel, theyou know, the optics of being on
the best team instead of being onthe right team. Because not all top
programs have the greatest coaches and developers. You have to have an identity as
(15:43):
a player in order to have anopportunity in a career as a player,
and kids don't get that. Sowhat is your identity and molding that is
shaping that at a younger age givesyou more success later in life. Earl
In terms of that development, Dotand I have about this. We do
a segment on our other podcasts,you know, Path to the NBA,
(16:03):
and I always find it fascinating becauseDon will sometimes analyze a guy and they
might be a freshman, a oneand done player, or some weeks it's
actually an upperclassman and it's a senior. But don we've been doing this podcast
for two years. More times thannot it's not the upper classman that we're
discussing. So Earl, like,what do you say to guys that you're
mentoring that are in college that wantto get to the NBA but they're they're
(16:27):
not sure. It's you know,maybe they're not one and done or two
and through or it almost feels likeif you're a senior, it's working against
you. If you're a four yearplayer coming out, Yeah, and maybe
it is in your draft process.I know where you get drafted as a
senior, But longevity is more importantthan you know, more money in one
year. And I'll say this allthe time the NBA player coming into the
(16:49):
league or come or trying to attemptto come into the league, you should
understand your identity as a player first. And if you can understand that early
in life, you're you're blessed.I was lucky to have I played on
Matt the teams at UCLA in thesummertime, and that team had so many
veteran NBA players. He told me, your identity is to play defense,
(17:10):
pick up full court, change thepace of the game if it scales down,
and stay in the corner and getready to shoot. And that almost
became my identity from my entire NBAcareer until I had opportunities to start.
Then it grows, but it gaveme thirteen years its ticks one point guard
from Kansas who I wasn't jumping likeBaron Davis. So I was lucky to
have that mode and I accepted whoI was, and it made me have
(17:33):
longer years, more money than mostplayers who came out during my draft.
So you have to understand that,and you have to have those conversations,
but you also have to have theright coach or player to tell you who
you are and what's best for yourgame. And it's so frustrating, Earle,
because it seems and maybe it's easyfor us because we played in the
(17:55):
league for a while and we understandit. But why more kids aren't told
dad, and why more kids don'tunderstand that. You still go watch high
level AU basketball, it's just atract meet. Everybody presses a pickup pull
and everything finishes with a layup ora dunk, and it's like, it
frustrates me that more guys don't haveyour perspective and pull kids aside and say,
(18:15):
look, it's great that you're bigand you're athletic, but if you
don't develop any skill, there's noway you're going to play in the league
for twelve years. And that's whatthis is all about. You're not going
to be Lebron, You're not gonnabe James Harden, but you can be
a twelve year NBA player if youdevelop a skill set in an identity.
Yeah, I mean players, youngplayers have to look at the bigger picture.
(18:37):
And Rico o'hani's talking about it.He's the bigger picture all the time.
The bigger picture isn't you know whereI'm drafted or how famous I am.
The bigger picture is how long canI play in the NBA to deliver
a platform that I can have successafter basketball. Whether I can be on
a podcast I can own with twoguys, well, I can come into
(18:59):
the PAC twelve network and jump onTV or NBA TV for me or coaching
or front office and creating a freeagency pitches full of Marcus Audrists with Sean
marks for the Spurs, Like thelonger you play, the more opportunity you're
going to have to be successful andto do more things like me creating and
starting an app in the tech world. Like that's all a part of character,
(19:21):
integrity, sacrifice and understanding my limitationsand really trying to master the best
at being the only one I canbe, and that's myself. Earl,
you just said something in kind ofpassing. It was a one off,
and I you've told me the storybefore, so I think our listeners would
love to hear it. You justmentioned that the deck that you put together
for LaMarcus Aldrits when he was afree agent, many of us and I
(19:45):
didn't understand kind of what was involvedin that, and I would imagine most
of our listeners don't either. Canyou just speak to what that process is
like as a team is trying topitch a high level NBA guy because you
were a part of that with sanAntonio and then from what I remember,
yeah, the process is rigorous.So when I retired from the NBA as
(20:06):
a player, my last stop wasimportant. The Spurs hired me into the
G League, where I was anassistant, and we made it to the
Western Conference Finals and lost the lastgame elimination game to go to the finals.
I believe we should have won.We could have won, and we
had Jay Michael Green, we hadsome really good, high level NBA players
and Spurs regretted doing that. CalAnderson And during that time I was working
(20:30):
in the G League. Another youknow task for me with the Spurs.
I was working with Sean Marks tocreate a free agency pitch for La Marcus
La Marcus Aldridge. And in thatpitch where you know, most players,
most teams and programs pitch money andnow everyone has money, so that no
(20:51):
longer matters. They pitched playing time, they pitch bill boards. This is
high level of players. They pitched, you know, unique opportunities, business
opportunities in years city where you haveto offer. We took it upon ourselves,
me and shann to pitch family andyou know, I really gave him
like, you know, we haveto pitch his mom, we have to
pitch his kid, we have tofind out and Sean brought in with the
(21:12):
Spurs. You know, it's reallyunique and different. They go deeper.
They want to go like favorite food, you know, residency, what a
type of neighborhood he likes to livein. It's so detailed and so deep
that we connect deeper than just abusiness deal. We connected as family.
We connected as you know, longterm relationships, and we connected to his
(21:36):
family. And when I became anassistant from moving from the G League from
San Antonio to Phoenix, it wasa hard decision to leave the Spurs.
But no one ever leaves the Spurs, so I'm like, there's no roof
for me to really grow in thisorganization. So of course I'm going to
take a better job in Phoenix,which Nilo'shay kind of prompted prompted me too,
and I became an assistant. Iwas like a low level assistant,
(22:00):
and I happened to come and havethe pitch ideas that I created for the
Spurs. I brought it to theSuns and now I'm in that free agency
pitch. So it came down tous, which we beat out the Knicks
and the Lakers, which wasn't hardto do at that time. It was
us, the Phoenix Suns, whowas known for not winning, you know,
was still the same kind of samekind of you know, resume,
(22:21):
and the Spurs and RC sees meand goes, thanks for almost my summer.
It's like like, see, likeyou you kind of gave me.
You know, you taught me toowell. You said it, like you
know you taught me too well.I'm a student of yours. And obviously
he went to San Antonio, whichwas the right choice, but just being
in the end and having an opportunitywas big for our organization when I was
(22:45):
with Phoenix tying those two things together. Early AU stuff we were talking about
and then the NBA stuff. Aguy that was very unique that came through
our league the last few years asMatisse Stybel, and for me, he
really jumped off the page. I'dnever seen a guy I cover as much
ground as quick as he did.His willingness to be an elite defender.
(23:07):
You know, wasn't a great shooter, not a bad shooter, but wasn't
as interested in scoring as he wasdefending. And you're looking around and I
think he averaged nine points a gameat Washington and here he is the twentieth
pick in the first round of theNBA draft. And people you know that
don't really understand the game, don'tunderstand that you can go different routes of
(23:29):
getting to the NBA. How muchhow much has that talked about, not
only when evaluating a player in thefront office, but also going back to
your AU days and telling a kid, hey, you may not be the
greatest offensive player, but there's adifferent path to the NBA as well.
Yeah, absolutely bring a synergy tothe whole, you know, a conversation
with having that's a kid who knowshis identity. He understands he's a defender.
(23:52):
He understands as well if he understandshow he can change the game on
the court on the defensive end,which gives them opportunities office leads to develop
and as a coach, you say, hey, I can teach a kid
how to make a corner three.I can't teach kids how to play defense
because defense is a technique to it. But there's also an inner will that
no one can put into you.You have to put it into yourself.
(24:14):
So he understands that he's now withthe Sixers, So for millions kind of
for him, it's really unique becauseI always think great wing defenders need to
be with scoring point guards, andBen is almost not a scoring point guard.
So I think that's where they kindof have those troubles that are all
these amazing pieces, but they don'thave a dominant score at that point position
(24:37):
who can shoot and stretch the court. You know, don if you got
two players in the backcourt who can'tshoot, I don't really have to go
out a perimeter. I can digall day on MB and I can just
contest late on the perimeter. Soyou gotta have checks and balances, and
you know, players in different positionshave to almost have the synergy of different
(24:57):
skills in order for it to work. Just a reminder for you two,
I did not possess that inner wellthat Earl was talking about. Hey,
you remind me a Mimido core whowas my teammate And you thought I was
telling yam like, you know,we'd be on Defen's blay memo. You
have to roadtate and x out youknow what means, you know, go
(25:18):
from the nail to the rim.You know, when we send the fender
sent offense baseline, you gotta getthat. He was like, Oh,
buddy, buddy, don't worry aboutthat. Just push the ball really fast
and turn around. I troll fora three. Good job of the place.
Sounds about right. I think Igot into bad habits though, Earl.
Early in my career I played withmy Tumbo and I got traded there
(25:38):
right before the season started, andliterally the first practice, he goes,
McClane, you let him go.I block it. Oh yeah, it
was good. Then three straight andI was like, I was like the
kemba. I don't have to lethim go. He's just gonna go buy
me anyway. Hey, Earl,I want to be respectful of time,
(26:02):
and I know you got to getrunning in a few minutes, but I
do want to ask you about oneguy who was your teammate who quite honestly,
and I don't know if I evertold you the story, and we've
worked together enough, but Baron Davisis one of my favorite players of all
time. In fact, the dunkon Carolinko. God, I mean I
just watched it on YouTube as wewere doing the show, like ten times.
(26:22):
I can't it just it's stuck inmy memory. It's still the best
dunk I've ever seen in a gamebefore. Can you like when you reflect
back? Because every time I workwith you, you tell me like ten
different Baron Davis stories and I loveevery single one of them. But is
there a moment. You guys roommates, You guys are still tight to this
day. Is there something if Ijust say Baron Davis, like first thoughts
(26:44):
that come out of your mind orfirst story like what resonates Nike Camp?
We met at Nike Camp. Wewas like probably sifteen or sixteen years old.
We were teammates and we dominated allthe games. And I think we
played so well together that UCLA oneof us as a pack it's freshman backcourt
deal together, which we didn't tellanyone that we wanted to go to school
together. We just kind of playedit out and he saw opportunities and took
(27:07):
it. Obviously for him, welived there in the whole tradition, and
for me, I grew up inthe same neighborhood as Lucius Allen, who
was a legendary use points rather toplay for Wood, and I've always wanted
to go there, So we becamebrothers. And then I moved to la
in May of my senior year andlived with his grandmother in South Central and
eighty seventh I believe, And fromthat moment on we became you know,
(27:29):
inseparable from you know, summertime livingtogether with him in his community in south
central Los Angeles, to moving intogether as freshman, to the dorms,
to going to play you know,pick up and taking all our classes together,
and seeing Kobe going to the WoodenCenter eight in the morning, coming
out at two thirty right before weplayed through, Like damn, Kobe's really
committed to play in the pickup games, like damn. Like done, throws
(27:52):
the most elbows one day, wehave to jump it like it's like it's
just like everything that we do together, we did together. And Baron is
the most interesting, unique person onEarth. He's one of the best basketball
IQs. I I call it patternplayers and non pattern players. Bands a
non patterned player, which means hedoesn't need offense to shift the defense and
(28:15):
make things happen some to Lebron someof the Kyrie similar to Stephs and to
Kevin Durant and Kobe and Mike.He just knows how to make it happen.
And I think my favorite Baron storyis during the lockout of the late
nineties, I believe it's ninety eightseason. It was a great lockout and
(28:38):
so all the India players hung aroundUCLA and live. Let Kobe come work
out in the gym when we havepractice in Pauli. So Kobe over there
getting up shots with his trainer.Baron was coming off of ACL injury,
and what we noticed was, youknow, a band started rebounding for Kobe.
So whenever Kobe came into the gym, then tensy practice is always picked
(29:00):
up. Because Kobe's in the gym, right, you want to show him
that everyone had that mentality because he'sour age. Winning championships was amazing,
and so Baron is, you know, in the brace, he's barely you
know, jogging rebounding for Kobe.Kobe's getting upsides winning in one of our
famous Steve Laven four hour practices,four to six seventeens of practice, he
(29:23):
you know, pat Riley style,and we look over to the next court
and we hear custom and it's bearingin Kobe playing one on one. They
doing elbows at each other. They'retalking trash to each other's nasty, you
know, crossovers, pivots, spadeaways, you know, dunks. It's just
it's tough, man, And soour whole practice stops, and lab is
(29:44):
blowing the whistle trying to get themto stop, because obviously he wants bearing
to come back healthy. They don'tstop, so we crowd the court and
we just admire too great basketball,skilled personalities and players going at it one
on one and they're sweating there sweatsand it was the most surreal, organic,
natural one on one store I've everseen or have been a part of
(30:07):
my life. And to this day, I truly believe NBA All Star has
to allow a one on one challenge. Three jibbles max. Three jibbles max
is NBA rule, And the game'sabout once only and the most you're gonna
go to a seven points. There'snothing above seven. So you go top
of the key, you go wing, you go midpost, you go elbows,
(30:27):
and it's just the skill just comesout. It's it's awesome. Who
Yeah, I totally agree Baron orKobe? Who won? Come one on?
Someone's listening now and they want toknow. I mean, I can't
not ask. That would have beenmy guests, But I'm just know you
just got to do the right thingthere. Well, this has been awesome
(30:51):
stuff, Earl, but I feellike this is the inside the PAC twelve
Men's basketball podcast, so I haveto at least ask you one Pac twelve
question. I'm gonna make it simple. Who's winning. Who's winning the PAC
twelve tournament? Man, I'm gonnasay, um, you know, as
we know, the PAC twelve isvolatile in a good way where anyone can
be beat at any time. ButI'm going with Oregon as a favorite obviously
(31:11):
because I think Pritch has been therebefore. And just watching his last game,
he came out on a mission toclose out his career regular season.
You could see it pull up threefrom half court, attacking the paint.
Just he was playing at a high. He's playing like a late to early
first round, late a late firstround, early second round NBA player.
(31:33):
He has the will to win,and when he comes into this tournament,
I think he's going to separate himselfas far as skill, confidence and you
know, kind of knowledge of beinghere, done that, and it's time
to put a stamp and seal onmy career in the PAC twelve. Absolutely
love it. Earl. Can't thankyou enough for spending some time with us
(31:55):
here on the podcast. We couldhave gotten, you know, another hour,
hour and a half, two hoursfirst listening to some of these stories
and hearing from me listening to youand don go back and forth on some
of the stuff is awesome. Um. The good news for everyone who's listening
to the show, Earl, You'reon PAC twelve network with me and Matt
Muilbach for the first three days ofthe tournament. We all get it underway
eleven thirty am Pacific time on PACtwelve Network, getting everyone set for the
(32:17):
Oregon State Utah game, and we'retaking everyone through the entire course of the
day through the postgame show at thevery end of the night, all three
days of the tournament, and thendon me, you and Richard Jefferson have
everyone covered with our championship pregame andpostgame show once again on PAC twelve Network.
Earl, you've been crushing for usall season long. Thanks again.
(32:38):
Safe travels to Vegas. I gotextra hand sanitizer for you when you lad.
I've been stocking up on that andI've already talked to our crew to
make sure that we have some chloroxwipes at the at the set for us,
so we will be in good shapein Vegas. Dam wait up to
see all you guys sown and likeI know, I see you this week.
(32:58):
Thanks guys. All right, John, I know you and I are
are excited for the Pact twelve tournamentthis week. Yesterday's podcast, we went
through the entire brackets, so encouragepeople to go and check that out.
Awesome to have Earl with us twoNBA. He was great, He was
great. I mean, it's betweenthe two of you, guys, what
does that twenty three years of NBAexperience, not counting earls four years as
(33:19):
a coach as well anything When youlisten to him talk about players and his
specific experience, you know what,I actually screw that? How about what
he was talking about it UCLA becauseI had known some of those things from
the stories that he's told me inthe stories that you've told me. But
what surprised me, and you askedhim this was, hey, would you
have be the NBA player if youthat you were, had you not going
(33:40):
to use CLA? And he saidno, and you said the same thing
for you. I don't know ifI've heard you talk about CLA and your
time there like that before. Well, it's it's it's obviously UCLA and it's
a high profile program. But whatthe what the men's gym does for you
is it gives you confidence because whenyou spend two and a half months playing
(34:01):
against NBA players every day. Youknow it's not going to go well for
you all the time. But whenyou when you leave the gym and you
had a couple moments and then maybethe next day you have a couple more,
you start to build confidence that hey, I can play with these guys.
And yes, there are players thatdon't go to UCLA to get the
chance to scrimmage against NBA players atdifferent camps and different things, but this
(34:24):
is at least back then when Earland I were around at UCLA, it
was every day for like two anda half months, and or four days
a week for two and a halfmonths, and so it's such an advantage
and was such an advantage for UCLAplayers because it's not like you're standing around
and waiting for all the pros tobe done playing and then you get on.
(34:45):
You are on with the NBA playerslike you are. Your credentials are
exactly the same, because that's theway that it always was that UCLA players
have priority, just like if MagicJohn or James Worthy or Michael Cooper walks
in here. And so that's whyI asked him that question because I know
(35:07):
for myself maybe I would have madeit to the NBA regardless, but I
know that that was a huge partof me getting to the NBA. Don
real quick here, just you weregod coming out of high school. I
mean did you Did you have teammatesthat played high Division one at other schools
at my high school? Yeah?Like I'm just thinking, like, did
(35:29):
you commune? I would imagine likeyou had friends I played at other established
programs. Maybe they weren't just yourteammates in high school, but like,
I can't even imagine you being ableto tell one of your friends that plays
at school. X, Hey hereat UCLA, I'm playing with insert magic
or whatever NBA play you were goingto remember? Remember the story I told
(35:50):
earlier in the year the first day, first day of freshman summer program,
which it coincides with I'm playing againstJames Worthy. Yeah, yeah, And
that's nineteen eighty eight when James Worthyis like an All Star every year James
Worthy, And so yeah, Imean telling your friends, They're like,
no way. But people could comewatch, Like the gym on a lot
of days was I wouldn't say itwas like standing room only, but there
(36:12):
was a lot of people there towatch and so you would see it.
You know, if you had friendsthat wanted to come watch, they could.
It's not like they, you know, you had to have a ticket
or anything, but yeah, itwas. It was really good stuff and
in a huge advantage to for notonly recruiting for the UCLA coaches, but
obviously for the players that played there. All Right, one other point I
(36:35):
just want to make here in thankingEarl on coming on the show, and
it reminds me of a story thatyou told a while ago, Don,
And I'm embarrassed because I don't knowif that was the podcaster in real life
story, but you told me abouthow a lot of athletes struggle to make
a successful transition from being a playerto back in the real world, not
sure what they're going to do.And you spent a lot of time,
(36:58):
a lot of your friends, you'rea lot of your teammates have have undergone
that process, Don, You've doneit as successfully, I think is as
anyone. And I can't speak enoughabout Earl's transition for player to coach and
now what he's doing on the televisionside with us A pactwelve Network. He
also works at NBA TV, andit's just not the TV thing. The
other interest. He mentioned his app. He was telling me about some of
(37:20):
the things that he's working on,some of the heavy hitters at really established
companies that are helping him and nowworking with him on the app. Like,
it just speaks to the maturity thatEarl has. A shouldn't say maturity
were at the same age, butyou know what I'm saying, like just
to you know what, Yeah,you know what, you know what it
speaks to him. It speaks tohow smart he is. Yeah, you
know, Earl wasn't a tremendous athlete. You know, he was a good
(37:40):
athlete in a in a skilled player, but he got to the NBA by
being smart and you can you canhear that in this podcast. Um.
And so the smart guys that stayin the league for thirteen years, you
would imagine are going to be smartafterward as well. And that's what Earl's
done. And I think he understands. He understood that there had to be
(38:04):
a transition from playing to what he'sgoing to do next. But typically the
smart guys are able to make thattransition and do it, and he has.
Yeah, I've said this, donI don't even know if I told
you this, but Doug Gottlieb theother day had tweeted out how good of
a job you do on our games? And I saw Doug. He was
in Corvallis, yeah, on Saturday, because he had the game in Eugene
(38:24):
on Saturday night, so he cameto the Oregon State game, so I
talked him for a few yeah.So he had tweeted that, and I
had retweeted it saying, Hey,like, every time I watch your games,
and I'm not just saying this goodfor friends, but legitimately, every
time I watch one of your games, I learned something. And same thing
on the studio side. But Ican't say this enough. Lucky to have
you at PAC twelve network. Andthe same with Earl, because if you're
(38:45):
in our touchdown room, which iswhere our green room we were watching games.
To listen to Earl and the thingsand watch him pick up different things,
it's it's like I'm being in therewith you. I mean, it's
the same type of deals. Sowhen you have guys at basketball Acumen,
it really does help out a lotof our shows. So just makes me
a little bit more excited for ourcoverage to this week on PAC twelve Network
(39:07):
with Vegas around the corner. Donawesome job by you. I will see
you in Vegas and we'll be readyto rock and roll. And I encourage
everyone to share the podcast on socialmedia and check out some of our shows.
You're a basketball fan, it isBasketball Heaven in Vegas this coming weekend
on PAC twelve now
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