Amityville Horror | Demon Possession and the Paranormal Podcasts - Investigate Earth Conspiracy Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
In a quiet village of Amnyville, New York, there's a
house that still chills people to the bone, long after
its doors have closed to the public. On the outside,
it's just another colonial home on Ocean Avenue. But in
nineteen seventy four, something happened inside those walls that would
seem in its place in America's darkest folklore. Six members
of the Dafayo family were found murdered in their beds,

(00:43):
each shot at close range while they slept. Their son,
Ronald da Fao Junior, was convicted of the killings, and
that alone is enough to make the place infamous. But
the story didn't end there. A year later, the Lutz
family moved in, hoping for a fresh start, and what
followed was twenty eight days up pure nightmare. Strange voices
whispering from the walls, eyes glowing into darkness, and doors

(01:04):
ripped from hinges in an unseen force that seemed determined
to drive them out. They fled leaven behind their belongings.
Any mystery that's never truly been solved. Was it all real?
Was the house cursed? Haunted? Or was it a story
crafted to terrify the world. Tonight, we're going to walk
through the events, the legends, and the chilling details that
still make people wonder what really happened in the Amnyville

(01:27):
Horror House. Guys, welcome to the show. It is August
the seventh, twenty twenty five, and I'm pretty excited about
this episode because, you know, we're not only going to
talk about the Amnyville Horror House and what potentially happened there,
right according to legend, according to the stories, according to
the Lutz family, but there's also another side of the story,

(01:47):
which will probably get into towards the end of this episode.
But Sherry, obviously we have talked a lot about this.
You know, We've had James on, We've talked about the
Book of b Knock, We've talked about the Watchers, We've
talked about evil spirits, We've talked about the paranormal UFOs
and interdimensional stuff. We've even talked to people, including yourself
on this show about your experiences. And so I'm excited

(02:09):
to talk about this and figure out is this a
true story and besides the Amneyville Whorehouse, does this happen
in other places? And what is the cause of it?

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, it's very scary to really dig into these type
of stories and things that happen, and especially if you've
had personal experiences, not to that point, but if you've
even had personal stories or personal things that have happened
to you, it's kind of scary to dig into these

(02:39):
kind of things because you wonder, God, am I on
the way of being possessed? Could this happen to me?
So it is, you know, a little terrifying.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, And there's a ton of actual, real accounts from priests,
from doctors, from people that have witnessed people that have
been possessed. Now, although you guys do not necessarily maybe
know the full story of the Aneville horror House and
what maybe happened there that night, what it kind of
ties into is demonic possession. And it seems like if

(03:09):
the FAO, which was the son, the twenty three year
old that killed his entire family, if he was possessed, right,
does this happen often? We've talked about this on other
shows before, where you hear about these people that go
and murder their entire families, and oftentimes some of these
people would be reported by their friends or family to say,
I cannot believe this could ever happen. This guy loved

(03:32):
his kids, he loved his wife, he loved his family,
he did everything for them, and then for some reason,
at some point, this person snaps. Everything changes in their life.
It's like the devil takes over their body or their mind.
And is that possible?

Speaker 3 (03:47):
You know?

Speaker 1 (03:47):
I know in court cases, for example, you have what
is called you know, when you try to declare someone
mentally unstable or insane to where they cannot or should
not be held to account for what they did. That
is what lawyers try to do to many clients, many
of their clients that commit these heinous murders or heinous acts,

(04:07):
they tried to declare them insane or mentally unstable or
whatever the case is, schizophrenic claimed.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
But in many cases it's hard to get them declared
at all. And most of the times these type of
criminals will stand trial.

Speaker 4 (04:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (04:22):
But what's scary too.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
When we're talking about people murdering their families is the
mothers especially that kill all their children or when they
say God told me to do it, Yeah, I had
to do it because God was talking to me. Jesus
was talking to me. When you have people that do
it for quote religious reasons.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's the same exact thing. You know,
for example, the Heaven's Gate cult. For those that do
not remember the Heaven's Gate Cult, this was a cult
of quite a few people that all killed themselves and
they all believed and their cult leader what the cult
leader said that you know, God was coming to take
them up, but they had to drink this poison and
able to really interact with them. Obviously, Yeah, you're going

(05:02):
to interact with someone after you drink poison if you
believe in the afterlife. But there are many cults, there
are many people that people follow out there that you know,
in some cases lead them astray. Now, this has also
obviously been for heavy debate as far as the people
that are psychic, you know, the people that say that
they can reach out and communicate with a dead loved

(05:22):
one for you, and so oftentimes, you know, people reach
out to these people. These people sometimes actually know the
specific things about their dead loved ones. The question is
are they talking to the dead loved ones or are
they talking to a demonic spirit that knows about their
dead loved ones that is trying to interject or at

(05:43):
least get some type of pathway into you and into
whoever this person is a supposedly psychic.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
And it worries me about psychics too. You know, I
get the point with the psychics that are reaching out
to dead loved ones or whatever like that. You know,
I don't feel like that's the responsible thing to do.
But what happens when you have people that you know,
even like I've talked about stories where things come to
you in dreams, are they come to you? You don't reach
out looking for it, but it comes to you?

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (06:10):
What does that mean?

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah? I mean there's there's a lot we're going to
talk about on this show tonight. We're also going to
play some clips of you know, Catholic priest and some
doctors that have actually witnessed exorcisms. They have witnessed people
that have actually been demonically possessed, and some of the
stuff that these people do when they are demonically possessed,
you know, very similar to movies that you've probably seen

(06:33):
where you know, The Exorcist for example, the movie and
some of the crazy stuff that the girl did in
the movie where she's throwing up all this stuff, she's
climbing walls. Well, according to some Catholic priests, this actually
does happen when people are possessed, and so it's not
also just so easy to get those people out of possession,

(06:53):
and possession doesn't always show itself in all cases. It doesn't,
you know, just show up twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week. There are times when the devil
can infiltrate on a deeper and darker level, and they
use all types of pathways to get to you. Now,
we've had so many episodes on this show where we've
talked about our biblical or spiritual beliefs or journeys, and

(07:15):
I think that's very important in today's world. I honestly do.
I think it's important to be grounded spiritually in some
way because there are so many facets out there. If
you believe that demons are real, and if you believe
anything in the Bible, the one thing the Bible always
talks about is that we do not wrestle with flesh
and blood, but with principalities, and I guess basically the

(07:36):
spirit world, so the evil spirit world. The Bible specifically
talks about demonic spirits on the earth, and that is
what you are going to have to deal with. It's
not a flesh and blood. It is the other side
that maybe we can't see. That is what is going
to infiltrate you and God himself, not God, but Jesus
himself would actually perform from what I've read, exorcisms on

(07:56):
people back in the day, and that's what many scholars
believe that he was also one of those that would
try to cast out the demons from some of these
people that are possessed. The possessions go back thousands of
years and it's not just new to.

Speaker 5 (08:10):
Today and interesting to me.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
I did talk to some of my family members that
are Jewish, and I was asking them one night what
their thoughts of being possessed meant to them and if
they thought it was real or if they thought it
was demons, just because a lot of people when they
say somebody's possessed and they have to have the demons
out of them, you have to use a priest, you
have to use Jesus Christ. So I was just curious about,

(08:34):
like what the Jewish faith thought about that, and from
what I gathered, they believe pretty much the same thing
Christians do, that it is Satan that you are talking
to and you have to have those demons revealed, and
they have to come out of you through spiritual ways.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yes, yeah, and you know, the Catholics have a very
specific way they do this, which we're going to play
a clip or two a little bit later in the show.
But before we get into that, I do want to
say that many of you have actually asked about our
YouTube channel. It is see free Live. That is how
you can look up the channel. Cherry's also going to
have her own channel in there, but we are going
to live stream Saturday. I think we're going to start
with an American Trucks simulator. I know this sounds crazy, but

(09:11):
we're going to have fun. Sherry and I are both
going to be driving semi trucks across the lands of
the of the United States. We're going to be having
conversations with you guys, So make sure that you go
and follow the Sea Free Live over on YouTube.

Speaker 5 (09:23):
And I am a very trained truck driver, just so
you know.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Okay, we will see guys, We will see. But also
speaking of that, they have so many games out now,
and this channel is not just going to be for gaming.
We're going to do commentary, We're going to do all
kinds of stuff. Cherry's going to have her own channel
mostly I guess, I guess you can say capitalizing on
the true crime stuff. You're going to be talking more
about true crime trials, et cetera. My channel is going

(09:47):
to be more for like commentary, gaming stuff like that.
It's going to be a fun channel. We will still
talk about conspiracy stuff that we can talk about on YouTube.
So when we're driving on American truck simulator, or maybe
we're playing a horror game, or maybe we're reviewing video
of some type of crazy incident, whether it be paranormal
or whatever. We're going to do really fun stuff like

(10:07):
that over there, and we want you guys to be
able to join us. Not all of our videos are
going to be live, but we are definitely going to
have at least probably two live streams a week, So
we do want you guys to come join us. That
is see free live on YouTube. That is absolutely the
best way you can find us. And as soon as
Sherry actually gets her channel going and we will let
you guys know what that channel will be called. So

(10:28):
we're very excited about it. This is not going to
affect this at all, Investigators Podcasts. This is our number
one passion in love. We've done this for so long,
and we're very excited about the content we have come
in for this show. But without further ado, let's go
ahead and get into the official story behind the Amniville
Horror House. Here you go.

Speaker 6 (10:51):
A good horror story is even more chilling when it
is based on a true one. Whichever way may be portrayed,
either through books, movies, or other mediums, the fact remains
that the events that occurred was once upon a time
someone's haunting reality. In this case, it was the realities
of the dafail and lux families during their time in
their Amityville home in New York in the autumn of

(11:12):
nineteen seventy four, A family of seven would suddenly be
reduced to just one surviving member, the one who committed
the crime. Before that fateful night, the Dafailos weren't exactly
a happy household, with rumors of Ronald Senior being hostile, abusive, overbearing,
and dominant. His way of fathering is believed to have

(11:36):
caused Ronald Junior, also known as Butch, developed into a
troubled young adult. The Dafaos owned an auto body shop
where Butch was employed, but he would often spend his
time at bars instead of at work. Butch eventually became
addicted to drugs and alcohol, which led him to become
violent towards his family. An incident had occurred where he

(11:58):
reportedly pulled a gun in the father, and there were
other times where he would physically lash out at his family.
In the early hours of November thirteenth, nineteen seventy four,
Ronald Butch de Fayo Junior snapped with rifle in hand.
Butch went from room to room, murdering his family members
one by one as they slept. One of the peculiar

(12:20):
things about this incident is that while the murdering unfolded
within an estimated fifteen minute time span, the way the
bodies were found showed no signs of struggle. In addition,
the sounds of gunshots oddly did not wake any of
the other family members, or at least it didn't draw
them on the bed. The bodies were found all faced
down on their beds, as though they had been positioned
that way. To add to the strangeness, the rifle reportedly

(12:43):
had no silencer, and aside from the family dog barking,
none of the neighbors reported hearing even a single gunshot
going off that night after horrifically murdering his own family,
which took a bath, got dressed for work, and eventually
reported the murder, claiming he discovered the griasly scene after
arriving home from his job. He went so far as

(13:05):
to propose that it was the work of a mafia
hitman accompanied by two accomplices. He said that they showed
up at his house that morning, put a gun to
his head, and forced him to kill his family members.
His alibi wouldn't last long on a scrutiny, were d'fao
eventually broke under pressure, admitting to the murders. He later
showed police where he had discarded the rifle and the
bloodstained clothes. In his confession, he stated, once I started,

(13:29):
I just couldn't stop. It went so fast. It was
said that Ronald Jr. Was hearing voices that influenced him
to carry out the murders. However, the prosecutors had a
psychiatrist argue against that who had diagnosed Ronald with antisocial
personality disorder, meaning that Ronald hadn't actually been hearing voices,
nor had he been possessed by another personality. He just

(13:49):
thought that the killing of his family was not wrong.
Dafaya was convicted by a jury for six counts of
murder and sentenced to six consecutive life terms, which he
is still saving at the Sullivan Correctional Facility in New York.
There is still a theory that a second killer was
also present, but never caught. Just a little over a

(14:13):
year following the mass murder of the Dafayo family, the
Dafayo residence on Ocean Boulevard would become the dream home
for a new family, the Lutzes. With the Amityville home
riddled in its gruesome past, one can't help but wonder
about the possibility of a residual energy lingering on the property,
haunting the ground it was trapped on. But one wouldn't

(14:34):
have to wonder for very long before the Lutches would
come forth with their alleged not so housewarming stories. After
house hunting for what seemed like forever, George and Kathy
Lutz finally came across a listing for what they didn't
realize at the time was the Dafayo home. They decided
to check it out, and while the house was over

(14:55):
their original budget of thirty thousand to fifty thousand dollars.
They for some reason found themselves drawn to the attractive,
hip roofed colonial house with six bedrooms, a heated pool,
and a large boat house on the Amityville River, And
despite being informed about the house's murderers past, the Lutzes
fell in love with the home and decided it would
be theirs. They purchased it at the bargain price of

(15:16):
eighty thousand dollars and never once considered the house to
be uninhabitable due to its past.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
And similarly, all right, I want to pause for a
second because I got to ask everybody a question. This
is the same question I ask you Sherry earlier, is
that if you found a house, it was your dream home, right,
a beautiful, gorgeous colonial home or whatever the case may be.
And then at the very end, you're very excited about it.
You and your wife are like, oh my god, this
is a dream come true. But what is the catch? Like,
what is the catch of this house? And then the

(15:43):
real estate agent says, by the way, there was a
gruesome murder here where someone killed their entire family. Would
you still purchase the house? What did you say, Sherry?

Speaker 2 (15:53):
I said, no, I don't care what the cost of
the house is. I would not be moving into a
house that somebody was murdered in.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Y ever, And you.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Know, and even if I didn't know, I mean I
would know, because you get signs I would think.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
Well, that's the thing about Indian burial grounds, for example,
is they're very sacred and Indians and many people actually
have always held their burial grounds to be sacred places.
And there's a reason why there are many laws around
you cannot build near or out, you know, on certain
grounds that have once been a burial ground. And there
are places, you know, even in South Carolina, for example,

(16:27):
you can go in the middle of the woods in
certain areas and you can find burial grounds that are
not necessarily designated as a burial ground. You will find
old headstones. It depends on where you go. A lot
of this is privately owned property. And actually it used
to be near where my family owned property. There was
burial grounds up on the mountains up there. And you know,
part of my family did come from like the Indian

(16:49):
side of things, right, so, and it was also always
very interesting to where when we found some of these
this burial ground at the top of this mountain before,
you know, there was nothing ever on top of these grounds,
you know, where you could almost tell where the bodies were,
I guess you can say. And there were little headstones
I mean I'm talking about like rocks that were kind

(17:09):
of triangle looking. There were barely things carved out. You
could almost not even recognize, but you could tell something
was carved out on these rocks. But you would also
know that these were burial grounds. And it was always
very interesting to me because there was never anything on
top of them. There was never grass growing on it.
There was usually never even leaves over it. And I

(17:30):
remember there was one time we were up on the
mountain and you know, this was property that no one
should have been on, and we were probably a mile
or two back, and one day we just happened to
walk up there and or hike up there, and we
started seeing like a clothesline from one tree to the next.
And on this clothesline there were these little cloths and

(17:51):
these cloths had some type of like demonic looking thing
on a horse, and each of them had like a
different scene and they were almost like see through cloths,
but they were printed and looked very old, even though
it wasn't old, because this was the first time we
had seen this cloth like thing. And then there were
other type of like vine things that were made out

(18:13):
of vines, and you know, I can't even remember or
tell you what those things were, but they were hanging
in trees in this certain pattern. And this was right
near where the burial grounds were. And when we saw it,
even back then, when I was like, you know, twelve
or thirteen years old, I was like, this stuff looks demonic,
Like whatever they're doing here looks very strange. And so

(18:33):
it was always kind of freaky, and it was always
near this burial ground. But yeah, for sure, I mean,
you wouldn't want to screw with stuff like that, and
in particular in this case, That's why I wanted to
ask everybody listening, would you buy a house and you
guys can tell us on social media or wherever you
want to reach out to us, would you buy a
house that you knew some heinous act occurred? And I'm

(18:54):
sure there's also people out there, like, for example, we
just heard that Matt Riefe. I don't know if this
is true, but TMZ has reported that Matt Rife has
bought the museum where the annabel Doll is stored.

Speaker 7 (19:06):
Now.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
I don't know if the Annibal doll is missing or whatever.
There was a speculation that was missing. We don't know
for sure. But what we do know is that Matt Rife,
according to TMZ, has bought the Annabelle Museum, which is
I think I don't even know where exactly.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
What it is.

Speaker 5 (19:19):
Maybe is it like an old house.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
Well, it's like an old house, but it's a museum.
It has the Annibell doll in case in a glass case.
They also have a lot of other lore as far
as the paranormal goes and kind of the story behind
the Annibell doll. But yeah, he bought this, and Matt
Rife is crazy. Matt Riyfe is so into like the
paranormal stuff. He's been on a lot of ghost hunts,
you know, with the people that do the ghost hunting

(19:42):
show on Travel Channel. Zach is his name, But yeah,
so Matt Rife's kind of all into that. But yeah,
he recently bought that, and especially strange considering one of
the guys that was traveling with the Annibell Doll, which
we had talked about in the previous podcasts, died recently
after traveling taking this thing I believe to Gettysburg. And
so now Matt Rife has bought the Annabelle Museum. So

(20:05):
very weird, very strange. I do get to find out
if it's true, if the Annibal doll is actually missing
or not. It's been speculation back and forth. I don't know. Well,
let's listen to more of the story.

Speaker 6 (20:16):
Pimilarly to the Hollywood portrayal.

Speaker 8 (20:18):
Kills his whole family. Doesn't that bother you? Sure they
felt that houses don't have memories, but.

Speaker 6 (20:25):
The Lutz's dream home would quickly become one of a nightmare.
The events that soon followed would eventually be known to
the public through the work of author Jay Anson, who
wrote and captured the events in his infamous book The
Amityville Horror. Prior to moving into the house, George Lutz
was an active businessman, but immediately after moving in, he

(20:47):
underwent a sudden personality change, becoming sluggardly, chilled, and cranky.
He found himself waking up at three fifteen am every
night and was unable to go back to sleep. Come
to find out, it was at this time that the
Dafayl murders took place. One night, he saw his five
year old daughter, Missy, standing by her bedroom window with

(21:10):
the outline of a pig's face with red eyes behind her.
He quickly ran inside her room, only to find his
daughter sound asleep. Shortly thereafter, Missy began speaking of a
new friend she was playing with, a pig named Jody.
In another chilling instance, George looks down at his wife
Kathy while she was sleeping and saw her face had
changed and seemingly aged her as if she was a

(21:31):
ninety year old woman. Apparently, part of the house's affect
on Kathy was that she would go through periods where
she aided unnaturally fast and appeared to be another person altogether.
This was reportedly also witnessed by her mother. Strange things
continued to happen, such as doors ripped off hinges, a
room full of flies in the middle of winter, cloven hoofprints,
and the snow just outside their doors, green slime oozing

(21:53):
on the walls, in the discovery of a secret room
in the basement that was nowhere on the house's original blueprint.
This room was painted blood red and was only big
enough for two people to sit intimately close. It also
gave off an intermittent odor. George even tried to take
their family dog down there. Instead of the attempt, he

(22:13):
just wouldn't go in. He backed away. It's the only
time I can recall him ever cowering from something. One night,
George heard the sound of a band playing downstairs, and
when he went into the living room to investigate, there
was no one there, but the rug had been rolled
up and the furniture had been moved, as if someone
had made space for dancing. The priests they enlisted to

(22:35):
help them also experienced a variety of strange phenomena and
illness after getting involved with the house The Amativial Horror.
Author Jay Anson said meeting the priest solidified his decision
to write the book, saying, because it was corroboration, this
was actually happening to someone, This was not an exorcist
or an omen From there, I started to create the book.

(22:59):
On g Jentuary fourteenth, nineteen seventy six, after just living
twenty eight days in their new home, a particularly scary
night drove the Lutzes to suddenly pack their bags, leaving
the rest of their belongings behind, never to return again.
They didn't expect to leave forever that day. According to
a two thousand and five interview with George Lutz, we
didn't get up to leave that morning. You need to

(23:21):
understand that this was our house. We'd lived there. When
we left, we didn't know we weren't coming back. We
didn't know that what we were leaving behind we would
never see again. Their belongings at the house, according to
a Washington Post article from nineteen seventy nine, were to be.

Speaker 9 (23:35):
Auctioned off later.

Speaker 6 (23:41):
The Lutzes shared the supernatural phenomena that they experience in
their time living in the Amityville House with ansign who
eventually turned their true story into an instant bestseller in
nineteen seventy seven. The La Times hailed it as fascinating
and frightening. Some critics have said that his popularity reflected
the rocky political climate in the United States at the time,

(24:02):
which included rampant inflation, rising interest rates, and a massive
oil shortage, all signaling a depressed economy. As the narrative unfolds,
the reader also sees the family struggling as their business
is impacted by the failing economy, as well as an
IRS investigation into the family's taxes at the worst possible moment,
making everything in the book all too familiar to readers

(24:23):
who were living a similar reality at the time. By
aligning something supernatural with the current events of American life,
the book turned out to be very relatable. It was
also said to have exploited contemporary popular trends of the
pulp horror genre, including a family patriarch who was drinking
and mean and out of his normal character as seen
the Shining enlisting or forcing a priest to help them

(24:45):
against his will or better judgment like The Exorcist, as
well as excessive vomiting also in The Exorcist, and even
the setting of a northeastern beach town like Jaws. When
asked if Ants and himself had experienced anything strange while
writing the book, he said leave it no, though he
did note that he had a heart attack after writing it,

(25:07):
which he felt was unrelated. Blame it on my smoking,
my idiot lifestyle. I'm not going to blame it on this. However,
Anson did say that some of the people who had
read the original manuscript or had early copies in their
possession did have strange things happened to them. Three of
his friends, along with one of their children had separate
brushes with death. One was fatal. The first had a

(25:30):
fire breakout in his car as he was driving back
to the publisher with the manuscript. The second friend and
his son nearly drowned in their car while a copy
of the manuscript was in their trunk. Reportedly, when the
car trunk was opened, the only thing that was still
a dry inside was the manuscript, despite the fact that
it had only been held in a class envelope. And

(25:50):
the third friend, whom Manson had given the first two
chapters to read, died in a fire the first night
she received them, and in the remains of the fire
the manuscript was found and condition. There have been several
film adaptations of the story, including a nineteen seventy nine
version starring James Brolin I'm Coming Far into two thousand

(26:11):
and five versions starring Ryan Reynolds, both actors taking on
the role of George Lutz. The book in both movies
are loyal to the setting and the true backstory of
the house where Grizzly mass murder had occurred. Both films
were said to deviate from the original story slightly to
add to the terror of the hauntings.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
All right.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
I want to pause here because as this clip here
says that it does deviate a little bit. But we
actually have the official interview from Good Morning America back
in the seventies with the Lutz family, and it's kind
of hard to find, but we have it. We're going
to play it in just a second. But I do
have something to say here. You know, Ronald, this was

(26:51):
Ronald Junior, also known as Butch, the guy that killed
his entire family. You know, Ronald Senior was abusive, He
was a big drinker, He abused his family. This was
something in the household that had a lot of trauma
I guess placed on Ronald Jor. And you know, there's
some I always say about alcohol because if you're ever

(27:12):
in like fire department or you know, EMS or law enforcement,
you know that alcohol contributes to so much of the
crime that you see, especially domestic, and domestic is heavily
contributed to alcohol in so many ways. And if it
isn't alcoholist drugs or something else. And oftentimes the people

(27:32):
that are subject or I guess recipients of that violence
as a child oftentimes replicates that as they grow up.
Or you know, for example, like if your father was
a smoker or your mom was a smoker, You're likely
You're you're much more likely to become a smoker because
you grew up in that environment. Same thing with alcohol,
and also the same thing with abuse, same thing with trauma,

(27:54):
same thing with all of that stuff. Cycles often repeat itself.
And so was this Ronald Senior thing being abusive and
being a big time drinker to his family to where
Ronald Jr. Butch was so troubled that one day he
broke mentally and decided to kill everyone in his house. Now,
it doesn't make a lot of sense because from all

(28:15):
the reports that we know about Ronald Jr. He loved
his brothers and sisters, and so why would he kill everyone,
especially if it was the subject of his dad, Ronald Sr.
That was doing all of the torture, you know, the
mental abuse and physical abuse in the house. Why would
you kill your entire family?

Speaker 5 (28:34):
Why wouldn't you just go after your father?

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yes, Now, the other thing is, as this clip says
that Ronald Jr. At one point in time did blame
this on a mafia hit. Now, the interesting thing about
the mafia hits story Ronald Junior actually he had been interviewed,
which we are likely also going to get to to

(28:56):
hear his side of the story before Cherry. When did
he They.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Died in twenty twenty one, I believe, but before that,
I think in was it nineteen not nineteen twenty eighteen,
I believe was the interview yeah, somewhere around ere conducted
with him.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yeah, So he had an interview. He told various stories,
and he even told various stories to other people prior
to the interview, and he said, look, I told these
various stories. But if you get into his past, his
family's history, his family was not necessarily good people. I
think a lot of Ronald de Fayo Junior, I think
his family was mafia. I do think they were mafia.

(29:36):
I think involved. Yeah, because he even talked about at
one point in time that you know, he went in
the basement to retrieve three million dollars and this was
back in probably the late seventies early eighties at least,
to retrieve three million dollars for his dad or his
uncle or something. Sounded like all of his uncle and
kind of family members were involved ina in mafia related stuff.

(29:58):
And you know, one of the things, one of the
the stories that he had told at one point in time,
is that he believed this was a mafia hit that
they pinned on him. And this is all very possible.
There was money involved in all this stuff everything, But
the big question is if it was a mafia hit
or if he did just do it out of nothing.
And then the Lutz family moved into this house and

(30:19):
experience very very similar, weird, eerie occurrences. Why did that happen?
I want to play the clip now of the Good
Morning America interview with the Lutz family. This is the
family that moved in after the FAOs. This is Kathy
and George, Kathy and George Lutz, and this is from
I believe nineteen seventy nine.

Speaker 5 (30:41):
Mans nineteen seventy nine.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, I think it's nineteen seventy nine. So let's go
ahead and play that clip.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
Now, thirteen minutes of right now.

Speaker 10 (30:55):
Back in November nineteen seventy five, six people were killed
in a an awful mass murder. I knows it's got
to be awful in a small town in Long Island.
The town is called Amityville. The murders took place in
this house. One year later, George and Kathleen lots bought
the house and they moved into it with their three children.
After living there for twenty eight days, they were convinced

(31:16):
the house was possessed by some kind of evil force,
and they left their belongings and they fled, and they
were really terrified.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
The events that supposedly.

Speaker 10 (31:25):
Took place there during those twenty eight days have been
put down in the best selling book. It's called The
Amityville Horror, and there is now a movie out or
about to come out, of the book. George and Kathleen
Lutz are with us this morning to talk about what
happened during those twenty eight days in Amityville. And James Brolin,
super young man actor, Thank you, yes much pleasure. Good
to see you again. Jim he plays George Lutz in

(31:46):
the movie, and Jim is with us this morning, and
it's great seeing you again.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
Let's this good morning to you both. All right. First
of all, the book.

Speaker 10 (31:54):
In the movie depict all these kind of weird, strange
things that happened in the house during those twenty eight
days when you were there. What kind of things George
happened physically? What were some of the things that happened
scared you well?

Speaker 11 (32:05):
At first just moving into the house was fine. It's
a lovely house, yeah, and we enjoyed moving in. Within
a week, Kathy's hand had been touched by something that
we discussed and couldn't explain.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
It was just something unseen in the day later or
was it, yes, yes, during the day right? Okay.

Speaker 12 (32:24):
We also had hordes of flas that would appear within
two rooms, and no matter how many times we would
kill them, they would reappear.

Speaker 10 (32:33):
Right now, Flies can be a real problem in this
part of the country in the summer in any house,
you know, but if.

Speaker 12 (32:40):
You have two or three or four within one room,
that could be commonplace. But when you're talking over a hundred.

Speaker 10 (32:47):
Well this was the winter, when you're talking about how many.

Speaker 12 (32:50):
Over one hundred four, one hundred fly one time? And
then you'd go around and kill them, they'd be lying
on the floor. You come back an hour later and
they would be there more.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
Okay.

Speaker 10 (33:02):
There was something about green slime. What was that on
the wall in the movie? This green slime comes out
of the walls? Right, George? Did that happen as the movie?

Speaker 4 (33:12):
Did it?

Speaker 11 (33:12):
Not exactly? No, It was more of a gelatin kind
of substance. That we thought the children had somehow mixed
something up and spilled it around the house. The next
time it happened the kaids who were at school, and
there was just no way to explain how it got there.

Speaker 10 (33:29):
Did you want call you a contractor or a carpenter
or anybody to come and look and and try.

Speaker 8 (33:35):
To Several repairmen come in.

Speaker 12 (33:38):
Telephone repairmen came three times because each time we're try
and communicate with the priests, we would run into faulty connections.
We had extreme fluctuations in the heat, between forty and
fifteen degree fluctuations three times. The serviceman came in. One
time he was there, he heard the furnace function and

(34:00):
there was no heat within the house. The temperatures had
forty and them stat eighty.

Speaker 10 (34:07):
Okay, now, but you had somebody inspect the entire heating system.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
Goodness knows, those was.

Speaker 10 (34:12):
A living north know what can happen with heating systems
in a house, especially old houses. Sure was something about
but there was also something about black in the toilets,
the water black and making the ceramic the bulls or whatever.

Speaker 8 (34:28):
Blanet itself, it wasn't in the water.

Speaker 11 (34:30):
The China itself turned black, and at first there was
one bathroom, and then another, and then another, so that
by the time the investigators got there, a number of
them were still black.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
You know, it was still that way.

Speaker 8 (34:42):
There was never any reasonable explanation.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
Did you have a plumber command?

Speaker 10 (34:45):
I mean, when you first spot it wasn't a problem
with the water.

Speaker 8 (34:48):
The water was cool, it was normal.

Speaker 10 (34:50):
But did you invite any contractor somebody like that just
to come say, hey, what's wrong with the toilets?

Speaker 13 (34:56):
No, because you didn't.

Speaker 12 (34:57):
One of the things we found was key holes. Would
he oose a black substance which was of the same
nature and appearance as that which was on the porcelain
in the toilets, And when the investigative team came on
March sixth, nineteen seventy six, the substance was still on
the key holes, and they were able to obtain samples

(35:19):
of it because it was never in a moist conditional condition,
and they wouldn't do physical damage to the door, in
other words, called out a piece of wood without our consent.

Speaker 10 (35:31):
They had either of you had any experience before with
your cult or the supernatural ever before.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
We didn't believe in it. Were you afraid for your children.

Speaker 10 (35:39):
Why didn't you leave earlier than the twenty eight days
if you were terrified?

Speaker 11 (35:44):
Well, it was our house, first of all. We had
never intended to give it up. Even after we moved out,
we intended to find out what was wrong. Had moved
back in there. That's why the investigation was held, and
people from different psychic research groups that at least we
could check their credentials. We're called in and asked to
come in. We've been asked many guys why we stayed

(36:07):
so long. It's very hard to remember the exact emotions
or the moments, why you would make a decision, or
why not.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
What you finally did make it.

Speaker 11 (36:18):
Well, by the time we left, we had lost a
considerable amount of weight. Kathy was passing out quite regularly.
I had lost over twenty six pounds, and we were
just reacting from one happening to another.

Speaker 3 (36:27):
We weren't really were not thinking yes as we normally would.

Speaker 10 (36:32):
Jim, you played George in the movie, and you did
research this and worked on it and so forth.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
You smiled. Do you believe them?

Speaker 4 (36:41):
Do? I?

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 11 (36:42):
When I'm sitting here with Amasa do and I've watched
George and I've watched you know, you've.

Speaker 8 (36:48):
Been an actor, David, and you kind of know how.

Speaker 11 (36:51):
To watch for telltale signs when you're doing research and
watching the people, and we also.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
But you get an insight, and I I.

Speaker 11 (37:00):
Can't say that looking over the story, I believe the
book as it's presented totally.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
But sitting with his people, it's it's hard to deny
a lot of the facts too.

Speaker 11 (37:14):
Gave up a lot of money, yeah, playing that he
would make on the book.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Do you know what I mean? Why don't you keep
up working on this?

Speaker 10 (37:23):
If it was terrifying and not a not a pleasant experience,
why do you Why don't you just leave it behind
you and forget it then move on to other things.

Speaker 12 (37:32):
Things of this nature happened quite frequently, and when they
happened to you. This is something we learned from the
investigators and psychics that came in. And when it happens
to a family, usually they close the door and they
don't talk about it. And unless these things are talked about,

(37:53):
them will never be understood.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
We went out when the movie was being filmed, Jim.

Speaker 10 (37:57):
We went out to the house and talks of the
couple to live in the house or did a year ago,
and they said they'd had no problems whatsoever.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
Everything was just fine. They implied that this is all
a big hopes.

Speaker 12 (38:08):
Well, one of the things we're very happy with. These
four weeks ago, both of us were subjects of a
polygraph test. It was given by Chris Codison Michael Rice,
and we're both passed with flying colors.

Speaker 8 (38:25):
She tested separately on.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
All right, So there is the interview, and that's an
important piece to this. Right now, this is back in
the seventies. This is the Lutz family. This is both
of the people that lived in the house outside of
their kids. But they did do a polygraph test. They
did pass with flying colors. Now, like I said, this
was back in the seventies, so polygraphs are not going

(38:50):
to be as advanced or as good as they are today.
It's really hard actually nowadays to pass a polygraph test.
If even how they trained CIA and that stuff, it's
extremely hard to pass it.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
You have to.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Almost like, yeah, if you are telling the truth, you
still might fail.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, yeah, you can even fail then. But you know,
even with CIA guys, that's the reason why they find
they try to find people with sociopath tendencies, not being
a sociopath necessarily or a narcissist necessarily. They try to
find people that go right up to the edge of that,
to where they're not over the edge of that, because
obviously that's going to be a bad thing for a
CIA officer. But they want someone that could pass a

(39:29):
polygraph test if under the circumstances that they have to
for their life. And the only way you do that
in certain cases is to be a narciss sociopath type
person to where you can get in your mind with
a certain story or whatever the case is, where your
you make your mind makes your body believe, and you
your mind has to make your body believe what you're

(39:50):
saying is true, because if your body doesn't believe it
and your mind saying it, your mouth saying it, you're
going to fail a polygraph test based on all of
the conditions under a polygraph examination. That's how they do this.
It's a scientific method. That's why they ask you questions
like what's your name? Is the sky blue? You know?
Is your dog brown?

Speaker 3 (40:12):
Is?

Speaker 9 (40:12):
You know?

Speaker 10 (40:12):
Is?

Speaker 1 (40:13):
What do you live on this street? You know? They
ask all these conditioning questions to where they want to
see a baseline. The baseline is very important because they
want to see how your body reacts to truth that
you know is the truth, and then how your body
reacts to certain questions based on whatever story you're trying
to tell them, and that is how they get a baseline,
and that's also how they know your line. But you know,

(40:35):
it is also interesting because I'm sure there have been
people that have failed polygraph tests that have been telling
the truth, whether it be because of the situation or
circumstances they're in, they're scared about it. And even back
in the seventies, you know, when kind of doing some research,
their polygraph examination was not that far off from what
it is now. They measure breath and heart right and
that's a big key indicator, and so when you can

(40:57):
pass something, especially as a couple. You know, there's a
lot of people that have said that the Lutzes are grifters.
Now we hear a lot about grifting nowadays, especially in
the UFO community. There are people that think that Jeremy
Corbell is a grifter. There are people that think that,
you know, Ashton Forbes is a grifter, meaning you will
make up a story based on the ability to make

(41:17):
money off of your story.

Speaker 9 (41:19):
Right.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Chris Bloodsoe is another one people. You know, some people
believe Chris Bloodsoe's story of the Lady and his UFO
experiences is a grift.

Speaker 4 (41:28):
You know.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
How do I get myself in mainstream enough to where
I can make money off of my whatever, whatever the
story is. And so the Lutz were they an original grifter?

Speaker 5 (41:38):
Right?

Speaker 2 (41:38):
And people were saying they were in makes with this
book deal and that they were going to be making
money off of that. But I want to back up
for just a minute. Chat's probably going to kill me
for this, But we have had tons of flies in
our house.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, well, and we have both a time.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Been hitting them and swatting them at the same time.
I am a good house cleaner, but we have had
black stuff in the toilet, well orange first, and then
it turns black. I think happens in the dog bowl
as well. I have to wash the dog bowls with
soap and water every three days or it starts to
develop a slime.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah or orange?

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Yeah, an orange sign, not a green slime, but an
orange slime. So, I mean, I'm just trying to think
about the things they were saying, flies, slime, black.

Speaker 8 (42:22):
Mold in a toilet.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
I mean it's because the maybe it's because the evil
spirits know that we're Tennessee and Clemson Vents, and so
they want to put orange in there instead of black.
I don't know. But actually when that interview was playing,
I was I put took my head bones off, and
I was telling the chairs like, hey, by the way, guys,
the black stuff and toilet that's called mold. That's literally
what it is.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
But but what is interesting, after they did move out,
there was a paranormal team that came in.

Speaker 5 (42:48):
Took photograph, set up tests, did things like that, and they.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Actually did capture a photograph of a young boy that
was like some kind of spiritual nature.

Speaker 5 (42:58):
And this was a team that was not related to
the LUTs at all.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 5 (43:05):
Was their paranormal activity in this house after the murders.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
And also you know where they talk about, and this
Good Morning America host back in the seventies says, you know,
we had actually went out to the house and we
had talked to the new owners of the house, or
at least a year ago, and they said they've had
no experiences whatsoever. Now, the thing about that is is
that that is all very possible. Is a is something
connected to a person? Is if you move into a house.

(43:31):
For example, the question we asked earlier that would you
buy a house that people were murdered in?

Speaker 8 (43:35):
Right for sure?

Speaker 1 (43:36):
And I I would say no. I mean just because
of how much we open ourselves up to stuff, how
much we talk about stuff, how much we are kind
of open to trying to figure out things. But for
someone that is going about their daily life, they go
work nine to five, they don't think about the same
shit we do, They don't talk about the same stuff
we do on podcasts. Could they get away with going
into a house that's say, for example, the Amni Evil

(43:59):
horrorhouse was haunted by evil spirits? Could they get away
with it? I think they probably could, because the devil
often attaches itself in ways that.

Speaker 5 (44:09):
Open too people that are open.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yeah, if you're open to something, that's when he's going
to come in. Now, the question is, and we do not.
What I want to do with this podcast is determine
whether the LUTs are full of shit or not or
not well.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
And this is an interesting point I want to bring
up too, is the priest, because there is controversy about
the priest, if he actually came in and performed any kind.

Speaker 5 (44:31):
Of spiritual rituals to get rid.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Of these things are not because the lets say they
did that he did and that was the only reason
why the author of the book decided to go along
with it and write the book, is because the priest
actually went into the house. But according to the priest,
he never went into the house. He had phone calls
with the Lutz family over the phone, but never entered

(44:55):
the residence.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yeah, and all the movies depict that he went into
the residence, all this crazy the stuff thrown up on
and yeah, yeah, and he and he fled the house,
you know, and he could not. Right now, when we're
talking about priest, we're talking about exorcisms before we get
into determining whether or not the Lutzes are full of
shit or not. I mean, because that is kind of

(45:18):
the the entire reasoning behind this podcast.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
And we have no doubt that Butch did kill his
family and yeah, absolutely so we know there were murders
there that did happen.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
Yes, but we have a clip of doctor Dan Schneider. Now,
doctor Dan Schneider is a guy that has been involved
and a part of exorcisms in the past, and I
want to play this clip, and then we also have
another priest that talks about that one of the occurrences
of an exorcism he was on it was almost like
this woman was a slithery snake. It was a snake

(45:53):
in the floor, and it was like what she was
doing during this exorcism was not human. It's not possible.
But also Dan Schneider talks about this a little bit
as well in some of what he has been involved in.
We're going to roll that clip right now and then
we'll talk about it.

Speaker 8 (46:10):
You said there's nine stages to possession, Well.

Speaker 7 (46:13):
There's three primary, so you have ordinary and extraordinary diabolic activity.
The ordinary activity is temptation, the stuff that we deal
with all the time until probably thirty minutes after I'm dead,
I'm still gonna I'm still gonna be tempted by you
know that cherry pie or whatever. You know, so kind

(46:33):
of temptation, what's that will kind of tempt the diabolic temptation.
I was joking about cherry pie. I like cherry pie,
but you know, I mean, so temptation is the ordinary
and you know, part of being being in the spiritual life.
Part of being a Christian is dealing with temptation, a
temptation to anything, name it anger, lust, infidelity, impuriitity, theft, whatever.

(46:58):
The demon is going to constantly little a way, that's
the ordinary. The analogy that I use is, you remember
in Vietnam they would set I don't know if you
guys still did what they would set up the wire.
They would string claim more minds around, you know. And
so the wire is represents kind of the interiority of
self and the temptation. You're the demons still outside the wire.

(47:20):
And then you've got increasing levels of extraordinary diabolic activity,
and it's oppression, obsession, and then possession. And each one
of those has marked signs, three marked signs of movement
towards full blown possession.

Speaker 13 (47:40):
But the ordinary.

Speaker 7 (47:43):
Is temptation, and the extraordinary is uses oppression, obsession, and possession,
and it becomes it becomes It begins oppression level is
normally along temporal goods, relationships, finances, you know, vehicles, and
you know, temporal things. And then as it grows down
the spectrum, it becomes more interior, and the demon becomes

(48:07):
more present to the person as he takes more ground,
they surrender more ground. It's very much like trench warfare
in many ways. As the demon takes more ground, he
becomes more interior or more present to them, they.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Become I want to pause here because we actually talked
about this with James. James brought this up on the
last episode we had with James, And by the way,
go and check out the Bible sessions.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Probably put me and teers a little bit talking about
it because this is a hard situation to talk about
when you're thinking about if you could.

Speaker 5 (48:41):
Become possessed or not.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah, and it starts with the interior. So it's like
you said, there's a line, right. And obviously, as Christians
or just as people in general, you are always tempted
with temptation. I mean there's temptation with everything. Everything starts
with temptation. It doesn't matter if it is addiction or anger,
or lust or fidelity, any of these things. He did
not mention addiction there, but addiction is a huge one.

(49:04):
That is something that takes over your body completely. And
one of the things I forgot to mention earlier about
when we were talking about alcohol and drugs or whatever,
but especially alcohol. You know, there's a reason why alcohol
is called spirits because it gets you in some other
kind of spirit that you should probably not be in
in most cases, although it's a depressant, and it is
a depressant. But when he talks about oppression, that was

(49:25):
something that James talked about on their podcast, and oppression
is something to where he wants to bring you down,
he wants to put everything down. If you're talking about God,
you're talking about Jesus, you're talking about the things that
you should be talking about, there's going to be something
come along that oppresses that. And that is oppression. And Sharon,
I promise you we have dealt with this, but yeah,
oppression can be like for what Sharing and I have

(49:48):
battled with is when you want to talk about God,
or you want to get more spiritual, you want to
go on this journey, you really want to figure stuff out,
the devil's going to come in and he's going to
oppress you and he's going to utilize people close to
you the most. And that was one thing that Sharry
and I have been battling for a while, whether it
be the Jewish Christian thing, Israel versus not Israel, there's

(50:09):
so many things so and I found it also very
interesting because like when we wanted to start talking about
Jesus on this podcast, when we really wanted to start
diving in where we had the book, we ordered the
books and we were like, hey, let's do this series.
And then that's when everything started to change, and especially
when the Israel things start happening, and then it was
a big divide between Israel and Christianity, and October seventh

(50:32):
and you.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
Name it kind of put a divide within us too.
And I just wanted to point out too real quick
that Brie was another one that said, this is what's happening.
The devil is trying to divide you and work you
against each other.

Speaker 14 (50:44):
Well.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Absolutely, and Breeze said that from the very beginning. I
mean she said, you know, look guys, just so you know,
she's like, as soon as you start talking about this.
And we had actually told Brie on or before we
started even talking about God on this podcast. This was
probably three years ago, and Brie was like, I just
know you're about to have some shit come your way,
like because the Devil's the Devil's not going to let

(51:05):
you get away with this just by talking about God. Oh,
you have a platform now, oh, you promise God that
when you get a platform, you're going to talk about
him and you're gonna do the right thing. But God,
but the Devil's not going to let you do that,
especially if you allow the devil not to let you
do that. And I think in some ways we have
regardless of what our beliefs or our feelings are on
certain issues are I think it has been oppression. That
is oppression. The other thing is obsession. So obsession is

(51:29):
the first one. Obsession becomes about money, about your ego.
Obsession is like what car do I have, how big
of a house do I have? How much money can
I make? How much can I do for myself?

Speaker 4 (51:42):
Right?

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Like, that is all about obsession. Let's be obsessed with myself.
Let's be obsessed with the vehicles we have in the driveway.
Let's be obsessed with the amount of money that we
make every single month. And not because of God's glory,
not because of what God did for us by creating us.
Is an obsession based on our own ego, and that
is obsession. And number one starts with obsession, and then
after obsession becomes oppression.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Either because I just look at myself as far as
obsession and kinda I am obsessed with these little things
that I find out in the wilderness by the river.
Like I'm obsessed, and I see myself sometimes wanting to
go out there and sometimes I'm baking, Chad, let's take
the golf cart and go see these things. I want
to see them. It's like there's a need to want

(52:25):
to see it again.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 5 (52:27):
And I also have obsession definitely for my dog.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
Well yeah, but that's but that's a little different. But
you know, but the reason why you have obsession, I
think with those things is it is extraordinary, it is diabolical.
It is all these things that you know, it's not
necessarily natural, and it's not commonly occurring. So for example,
you know, having a Lamborghini in the driveway is not
commonly occurring for most people, which is why people become

(52:51):
obsessed with getting it. It's also not commonly occurring to
most people to see orbs in the middle of a
freaking woods next to a river. That's why it becomes
an obsession. Anything that can become an obsession is because
of the extraordinary particulars of that thing. So it could
be a Lamborghini, it could be million dollars. It could
be orbs. That is an obsession. That's what creates it,

(53:13):
I think. And then obviously the oppression can also come.
And listen to your point, obsession may come first, oppression,
it doesn't matter either way. Oppression definitely also happens. And
then once you get past that, as he's saying, possession.

Speaker 5 (53:27):
Yeah, that's why you're really opened up.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Yeah, you're one hundred percent on obsession and you're one
hundred percent on oppression, and you're just letting everything happen
to the point where you go full scale. Maybe in
your orb thing you go all the way.

Speaker 8 (53:40):
In on that.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
You're also completely oppressed by everything that you want to
learn on in your adventure to God and Jesus or whatever,
and so you're completely far away from that because maybe
you fight with your husband or argue with your husband
about the particulars or the belief system. Right, so the
devil knows, Hey, he's got you. And I'm not saying you, Sherry,
saying both of us. The devil's got you. And so

(54:02):
you now are oppressed. You are now obsessed with something
extraordinary that is not of God. And now he has
a clear pathway to possess Now, like this guy says,
possession is not common, but it is possible, And you
don't have to have possession of people to completely destroy
their lives. I mean, and I think in most cases,

(54:23):
I think the reason why so many people get in
positions that they are in, whether they're criminals, whether they
are drug addicts, whether they're alcoholics, they've lost their family,
they've lost everything. I guarantee you that somewhere along the way,
likely trauma was a part of that. If you look
at like the statistics of homeless people, I think it
says like ninety percent of homeless people have some type

(54:44):
of mental disorder to where even if you got them
off the drugs, is still going to be very hard
to keep them off of that unless you can completely
fund them, put them in a you know, put them
in a facility to where you're monitoring them twenty four
to seven. I don't know the statistics if that's true
or not, but what I am saying is that likely
they suffer from oppression, obsession, obsession being drugs, oppression being

(55:05):
their trauma and everything that allows the devil in, and
then the possession thing is like kind of the worst case,
but You don't have to be homeless or a drug
addict or any of that to be possessed. There have
been normal people be possessed and for whatever reason. And
I think in some cases, you know, when you have platforms,
or you are a good person, or you talk to
a lot of people or whatever, I think you might

(55:27):
be more susceptible to be possessed, because that is going
to be the Devil's way of getting and gaining his
following right. And so that's why I've always said, like
with this podcast, when we talk about God, we talked
about Jesus, we got to be we got to be
right about how and what we talk about, because we
don't want to lead people astray and say, you know what,

(55:48):
I don't even believe in any of this. And then
that's the Devil's way of like creeping in and saying
I got him. Now he's not wanting to talk about
God anymore, he's not wanting to talk about Jesus, not
want to talk to any of this. I've got him.
And so now I can lead more people astray by
using one person or two people than I ever could
by just possessing them entirely.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
But based on his three categories oppression, obsession, and possession.

Speaker 8 (56:12):
There's a lot of other others that.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Go along with it or are involved with things like
that that people experience. And I don't think it's just
about people that are alcoholics or had trauma or drunks
or whatever. I think it could happen to every day
normal people.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Absolutely, yeah, just like you know.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
In my opinion, I don't know where this falls. But
in our last podcast, I was talking about sleep, being
paralyzed in my sleep and having something feeling like it
is holding me down. I couldn't breathe, I couldn't yell,
I couldn't scream, I couldn't move my arms.

Speaker 5 (56:44):
I was just paralyzed. And Kathy Lutz had that ex same.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Exact experience experience when she was living in this house
for twenty eight days.

Speaker 15 (56:54):
Now.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
I don't know what level that is or what that means,
but there are other things that go along with it,
and does it I guess what I'm saying. It doesn't
matter if you are addicted to drugs or an alcoholic
or anything like that. It can happen to anyone, is
what I guess my point is.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
And maybe that whole experience like when you're held down,
you're paralyzed. Maybe that is the in some ways a
physical manifestation slash spiritual of the oppression. Right, So it's
like feeling oppressed, like actually filling it on your body, right,
And it's maybe your soul God saying, hey, this is
what you God's telling me.

Speaker 5 (57:31):
Anything like that.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
But maybe maybe people understand what I'm saying. Let's listen
to some more of what He's us.

Speaker 7 (57:38):
You know, just like you know the church, lady, you
know you're having a conversion experience and and suddenly you're
helping out the church. You're telling everybody about it, like, man,
God did all these great things for me, and you're
broadcasting and telling everybody.

Speaker 13 (57:53):
And the opposite, you're doing the opposite.

Speaker 7 (57:55):
You know, you're putting up and if you're Catholic anyway,
you're putting up pictures of the day loope and a
crucif over.

Speaker 13 (58:01):
Here, and and you know you've got the Saint Benedict
over here.

Speaker 9 (58:05):
Whatever.

Speaker 7 (58:06):
They're they're starting to take down any religious objects, they're
putting up more secular stuff.

Speaker 13 (58:10):
They're starting to broadcast there.

Speaker 7 (58:12):
They're doubting God, you know, so you start to see
this inversion and then spiritual obsession, the demon starts moving in,
he's starting setting up, he's starting to control things a
lot more increasingly. And possession again, as I mentioned.

Speaker 13 (58:28):
Earlier, it's it's very rare, but.

Speaker 7 (58:32):
You know it's it's done when if he doesn't have to,
he's not going to for the most part, and so so. Yeah,
so obsession is is is more more common than possession
and the danger of not ferreting out the psychological people
got to understand is that a psychological obsession, psychological obsession

(58:55):
can open you to a spiritual oppression or even spiritual obsession,
just to a psychological session because the demon feeds off that.
He takes advantage of that psychological session. Whether it's addiction
to pornography or unless you if you're didicting the pronography,
you're possessed. But any psychological session can can open expose
You're just vulnerable.

Speaker 13 (59:14):
You've got a whole flank that's wide open and nobody's
covering it.

Speaker 8 (59:20):
How do they get in?

Speaker 7 (59:23):
You know a couple of things. One is wounds trauma,
another is you know the demonysical trauma, psychological trauma, psychological
psychological trauma, Yeah, psychological trauma. Then they can they feed
off those wounds, their vulnerabilities, and of course the demon
enters through sin. And as I put it in the book,

(59:48):
that they emon interested sin. But he holds in heresies
believe it or not, even in false beliefs. You can
hold on those heresies. We always see that. So but
it' chooses some psychological trauma or and or sin deep,
especially grave sin, even especially the really wicked sins. In
our experience, we've seen that as diabolic accompaniment. What is

(01:00:11):
that there's a demon pressif what's an extreme sin, incest,
sexual trump, sexual abuse rate, that sort of thing.

Speaker 8 (01:00:23):
What is the I mean, what is the demon's goal?
Take you to hell? But there's lots of sinners. Why
do they pick these specific people? I mean, why what
are some of the people that we were talking about Abramovich?

(01:00:44):
I mean if she possessed or.

Speaker 7 (01:00:47):
Well, I mean I think if you're working specifically in
that field, you're probably uncontestedly possessed. Yeah, but there there
working on all of us, you know, Father, you know father, father.
More I think I mentioned earlier, the demon told him

(01:01:08):
if you can, if you could see our numbers, we
would darken the sun. You know, my name is legion
from where are many So so they're they're just constantly whittling.

Speaker 13 (01:01:16):
Away, whittling away, working at it.

Speaker 7 (01:01:18):
The perceptions why I think you had to watch it
in the fariest because you start to see diabolic psychology,
the way he's the way he waddles away what he's
looking for, the vulnerabilities he's looking at.

Speaker 13 (01:01:27):
But he has no rights, That's what he's going to say.
I have a right to you.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Now.

Speaker 7 (01:01:31):
You know, if you're baptized by right, your soul belongs
to Jesus Christ.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
That's it.

Speaker 13 (01:01:39):
But he takes permissions.

Speaker 7 (01:01:41):
You know, if you give him permissions to behaviors, he'll
take that and that would be his entry point.

Speaker 8 (01:01:49):
That makes sense kind of. Yeah, by giving him permissions,
you mean by your actions.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
And so I I want to point out this too
because you know, when we're talking about Ronald jor right
butch where he was troubled, obviously very troubled, and he
had a lot of psychological abuse. Now we know it
was physical in nature. We don't necessarily know if it
was rape or you know, maybe he was sexually used
or any of that stuff. We don't know for sure.

(01:02:20):
But what if it was right and so even to
that point beyond the movie, to where this guy something
led him to murder his entire family. Whether how you
look at this from the movie perspective, that it was
an actual demon that was moving through the house. These
cold spots, the flies, the slime, the all of these things,

(01:02:43):
the things that turned even the Lutz family, allegedly the
father into somebody he was definitely not, you know, before
he moved into the house. But what led Ronald Jr.
To do these heinous acts? You know what lee people
to do heinous acts like this as we were talking about,
and you know, to where a demon can get into

(01:03:06):
you is through physical trauma, you know, And that was
one of the things that that you know, Sean Ryan
asked here, he said, physical of course, of course it
is not physical trauma. I mean, it's not like you
got to cut and then the demon comes in, right.
It means like you have something far worse than physical, Yeah,
psychological like demons in you.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
And and psychological trauma is in a lot of cases
worse or as bad as physical trauma. Now, we obviously
know people ross out there that has had extensive physical
traumas where he has had to live his life like
that with one leg and he has been you know,
traumatized by an accident over the years, and that's just horrific. Yeah,

(01:03:50):
absolutely it does. But you know, so can psychological trauma.
It can change your life in so many different ways,
you know. And and you know, also physical trauma can
lead this psychological trauma that then leads you into a
position to where you're susceptible to things like this. And
so you know, do we say that like people that
have psychological trauma just do this because they're just bad people?

(01:04:13):
Or how much of that do we think is a
demonic spirit that is able to inhabit their psyche and
their soul.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
And plus we've got to think about people with a
psychological trauma. Most of us, in our lives and one
point on another have had some kind of psychological trauma.
We've all gone through it. It's just different levels, yeah,
for sure. And what level or what sets a person off?
Maybe a level one for me would have set off
a level four for somebody else. You know what I'm saying,

(01:04:44):
how much can you handle intil you just go cuckoo crazy?

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
Yeah? I mean, and listen, I mean in my life obviously,
you know, there's been things I've struggled with psychologically for sure,
And I know you're in your life as well, sharing
and you know, and there's a lot of people like that,
I mean you think about you know that they're like
you said, there's levels of trauma and there's reasons why
in your mind that thing just drives you crazy. There's
psychological trauma as far as if you're a firefighter or

(01:05:09):
paramedic or police officer, to where the things that you
see or have saw affects you mentally. There's that. There's
also psychological trauma to where maybe you weren't loved by
your father or your mother, or maybe you were abused
or maybe these things that at a young age, especially
as your brain is developing, you know, at you know, seven, eight, nine, ten, twelve, thirteen, fourteen,

(01:05:32):
seventeen years old, to where it's a constant thing that
you kind of grow up in and then you're kind
of out there in real life, in the real world,
and now your brain is trying to deal with everything
that you have already dealt with before and then also
be normal and kind of go along with everything.

Speaker 5 (01:05:48):
Than normal kid life. And then kids are really mean.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
Yeah, well yeah, I mean, especially today. I mean a
lot of talk actually lately has been about kids in
our youth of today are the most troubled, maybe than
we've ever had. A predominant reason why we have violent
crime now is starting to go up because of teenagers.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Yeah, just hijacking cars is predominant. Murder by kids, Yeah,
shootings or gangs, all this stuff. It is, it is,
it is our youth.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
And you know, we have this kind of consensus which
Judge Janine just went on Fox News, which I don't
agree with everything Judge Janine has been saying lately, but
one of the things she did get right on Fox
News the other day was talking about you know, kids now,
and I think kids have always kind of sort of
known this. It's like, if you're a minor, you can
get away with a lot of shit because once you're

(01:06:33):
not a minor, all that minor stuff's usually off your record.
And most of the time, you know, especially growing up
in our era, you know, you're slapped on a risk.
If you did something bad, you know, it's you know, fine,
you're slapping a risk. But the reality is parenting used
to be a lot better too. I mean, in some ways,
I mean it's even though, yes, we all had trauma.

(01:06:53):
Back in the day, we had abusive parents. In some cases,
we had alcoholics, we had I'm sure there were people
that had drug addicts and all that. But nowadays we
just have parents that are batshit crazy. I mean, there
is a large portion of people that are ideologically crazy
that are raising their kids to be crazy, and these
kids have nothing more to go on than how crazy

(01:07:14):
their parents are. I literally just saw a video of
like eight kids. These are from the ages of eight
and probably thirteen. They were in Walgreens with trash bags
still in shit, oh God, and taking it out of
the door, and it's like and everybody's like wow.

Speaker 5 (01:07:32):
Looking at the people, like bitch, what you going to
do about it?

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
Exactly. But the problem is, like everybody's like, I can't
believe these kids will be doing this. Oh well, I
wonder if we had a security camera on their parents
over the past two or three years. I wonder if
they were the same people going into Walgreens still in shit.
Because you learn from your parents, and some kids are
going to learn and they're going to do the exact
same shit their parents do, especially if they have no
other outlet to be able to learn differently, and there

(01:07:57):
are certain factors and sections of people that don't have
another outlet. But then there are some people that do
break through, they do make it. But you know, that's
exceedingly rare nowadays to have someone that has went through
hell and back as a child and actually make it,
that is exceedingly rare. It didn't used to be as rare.
But now it's like with media, social media, everything, it

(01:08:20):
is really hard. If you are looking all the crazy
shit on social media, you already have a shitty childhood.
Your parents are batshit crazy, they're still in shit from
Walgreens and you know, fire bombing buildings in towns or whatever.
And now it's like, what chances do you have? What
chances do you have to become a normal citizen? And
your chances of becoming a criminal sooner are much higher

(01:08:42):
than ever before, I think. So anyways, we went on
a rant.

Speaker 13 (01:08:45):
Let's listen acting on temptation, Yeah, sinful behavior.

Speaker 8 (01:08:52):
Yeah, what are some of the things that you've seen
during exorcisms? You saw levitation?

Speaker 7 (01:09:01):
Correct, Yeah, one of the first, one of the first
cases we had was was well, yeah, levitation all but
tips of the toes and the thing tipped. I mean
physically impossible, you know, to elevate as if there was
a rope pulling everything off the ground except for tips

(01:09:21):
of the fingers and tips of the toes. You've seen that, Yeah,
how did that feel? You know, you're just so focused
on mission. You're not thinking about it. You're just praying.
You're doing your job, you know. But yeah, I've seen
the priest starts praying and the lady sitting in a
folding chair in the room about the size one balance

(01:09:43):
slides all the way.

Speaker 13 (01:09:44):
From this wall to that wall.

Speaker 8 (01:09:47):
Wow.

Speaker 7 (01:09:48):
Yeah, And I was just like, you know, just like
you you got your cool, you know what I mean.
You're a seal as a helicopter privately, you know, you
flew with a lot of guys and no matter what happens,
they're always cool. So on the outside I'm always like,
you know, just doing Nney shakeless. On the inside, I
was like, dude, you got to.

Speaker 8 (01:10:05):
Do that again?

Speaker 9 (01:10:06):
That was wow?

Speaker 8 (01:10:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (01:10:09):
Well, I mean I joke, I joke, but yeah, it's
some of the stuff. It's just it's just.

Speaker 8 (01:10:14):
Wow, what are they saying when you're performing the exorcism?

Speaker 7 (01:10:19):
The sometimes first Yeah, when we talk about what the
demon saying or manifestation. What happens is the demon appropriates
the senses of the person and so they take again
the demon, properly speaking, possesses of body, and they appropriate
their senses, sight, hearing. You know, they're very the traffic
in the senses their sense. Some are sensitive to different things.

(01:10:41):
You know, I can't tell you anytime you can't hear.
But I've got Gregorian chant going right now. I can't
tell you how many times I would do an intake
and they say, can you turn that music off?

Speaker 13 (01:10:50):
I'm like, what music?

Speaker 7 (01:10:52):
You know, it's it's coming out of your pants, your jacket.
I'm like, and I'll crank it up. You mean this,
I'll crank it up real loud. Now, I'm not going
to turn that off, because what's aggravating something inside of me? Okay,
I'm not turning it off. You know, I've seen it

(01:11:16):
one time. For example, music Gregorian chant, which is the
chant of monks, okay, Catholic monks, Benedictine monks bringing ancient,
ancient prayers. You know, Gogry chant goes back to the
five hundreds. You know, Gregory the Great is when it
kind of started. So maybe maybe six hundred, and so

(01:11:40):
the priest says, okay, let's basically get the party started,
you know. So I had I have the today, which
is an ancient Gregorian chant today I'm not alfles, we
praise you God, and it's the chant of the choirs
of angels chanting before the Throne of God.

Speaker 13 (01:11:59):
Okay, and so I just hold it up.

Speaker 7 (01:12:03):
And as soon as the demon was kind of stoic
and as soon as he hears the Gregorian chant, immediately
starts manifesting. And then the pre jumps in and does
some exorcism. And then the next week, I thought, I
want to be smart, because I'm a smart guy, you know,
So I played something else the DS ray that's something

(01:12:23):
they prayed on Good Friday, the day of wrath. So
I want to play that one as being a smart guy.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
All right. So, as he was talking about doctor Dan Schneider,
there is different levels of possession and this happens. There
are various ways that this happens. It is very strange
how this happens. But we have another exorcist priest that
has witnessed a lot of weird things where he says
she was slithering across the floor like a snake. I

(01:12:49):
think he explains this exorcism stuff a little bit better
and kind of their process of how they go about
the exorcism, because this is very real stuff, guys, whether
you believe people can be possessed or not. I think
that I actually saw a comment on the clip and
it says the people that need exorcist the most are

(01:13:10):
the people in power today. And interesting, and I agree
with that because you know, you think about the world today,
you think about the leaders of today, it seems like
that they are absolutely doing one hundred percent everything opposite
of what the people want, and everything opposite of what
you would think God would want for people, you know,
And that's that's the truth.

Speaker 3 (01:13:29):
And there are.

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
Leaders of countries right now. And this is not just
Israel I'm talking about, but this is leaders of countries.
So even Putin, for example, where Putin says, you know, hey,
we believe in God, where we are a evangelical type,
you know, country, and we love God and we love
our values and all this stuff. But then you know,

(01:13:51):
you you think about how many lives are being lost
every single day right now. I think in the Russia
Ukraine warriors five thousand plus, you've got Israel that is
possibly killed one hundred thousand civilians. We don't know for sure,
but now they're about to completely take over Gaza. We
do also have the other side, which is Hamas that
came in October seventh and killed twelve hundred plus innocent Israelis.

(01:14:12):
You know, this happens all the time. The United States
has been involved in campaigns to where we have killed
innocent people. This is not just necessarily all on Israel.
It's not necessarily just all on Ukraine or Russia or
the United States. For some reason, when people get in power,
they feel like it's okay to just kill innocent people.
These are just expendable people that we can just continue

(01:14:34):
to kill. And as long as we're doing it for
our team, or at least we let everybody think that
we're doing it for our team, that's okay. The problem is,
I think there are so many leaders in this world
right now that are possessed. They are possessed by the
obsession of power, and the obsession of power in some ways.

(01:14:54):
I think, in especially some of these world leaders cases
leads to almost some type of possess And I don't
think that world leaders are doing stuff for the for
the righteousness of God. You know, I just don't think
that's the case. I think most cases the wars are
happening because of greed and money. It's happening because of
contracts with military industrial companies, whether it be lock Eat

(01:15:17):
or Raytheon or whoever is. It's the military industrial complex
that leads a lot of these wars. It is the
exact reason why there are people that are starving around
the world, not just in Gaza, but also you know,
in probably Ukraine, in various countries throughout Africa, South America,
you name it. There are tons of people. Think about this.

(01:15:37):
We're given billions, three hundred, four hundred, five hundred, who knows,
we've lost track of the amount of money we have
given to Ukraine now to fight Russia through a proxy war.
But think about if we would give four or five
hundred billion dollars to African countries right to where we
protect the people of Africa, because there are Christians, by
the way, being slaughtered in Africa by whatever Muslim factions like.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
And that's what I was getting ready to say that
it's not just about greed, power and money. I think
a lot of these wars are rituals and religious wars.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
Ideological, absolutely, and that is one hundred percent also true, right,
I mean you can have wars that are based on money,
military in dustrial complex, power, greed, and oftentimes unfortunately I
think that is the predominant amount of wars. But yes,
absolutely true. There is one hundred percent ideological religious wars

(01:16:34):
that have happened and have happened throughout thousands of years.
This is not something new. You know, when you have
entire villages of Christians in Northern Africa that are slaughtered
because they are Christians, because they believe in Jesus, that
is a problem. That is a religious ideological war.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
That is extremely so the same thing that happened in Israel.

Speaker 5 (01:16:52):
They were slaughtered because they were Jews.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
Yes, and then if you want to go into that,
which we want, but yet, but.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
You've brought up Gaza several times, so I have to
make sure that I point that out because they were slaughtered,
and that's what we can on October seventh.

Speaker 1 (01:17:05):
Yeah, so twelve hundred versus one hundred thousand civilians, I get.

Speaker 5 (01:17:08):
That, but I'm just saying it was based to me
on religion or I think the whole thing in Gaza
is against religion, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
Yeah, probably so. But I think the whole dynamic between
Israel and Gaza is religious. I mean on both sides.
And it's not just Hamas just hates Jews. It's also
Israel hates Gaza. And that's kind of my opinion. And
it's based on religion. It's based on all these things.

(01:17:38):
Probably also power, probably also military industrial complex, influence, also
probably bbing Net and Yahoo didn't want to go out
of power. You know, Hamas is Hamas is obviously awful.
They have their agenda, they have what they want to do,
but now also Israel does as well. But as I said,
it's not just about Israel, it's not just about Gaza.
It's also about all the world leaders, and I think

(01:18:00):
many of them if they took a lesson from Jesus
or God, in my opinion, like the God that I follow,
I don't think that would just be okay with killing civilians.
That's the same thing as saying, well, why is it
bad if the faoh here goes and kills his whole
family for some ideological reason, because probably in his mind

(01:18:21):
there was some ideological about it. There's probably a lot
of people that do ideological things. For example, shooters that
go and shoot up a bunch of people, there's something
in their mind that is ideological, whether it's religious, whether
it is based on whatever. Those are politicians, Yes, absolutely,
those are ideological killings. And so when you do the

(01:18:41):
same thing as a country, that's supposedly okay because it's
the government. But when you do as a person, you
are sinnenced to death. So why are we not sentencing
countries to death for killing civilians? But we do?

Speaker 7 (01:18:53):
Are?

Speaker 1 (01:18:53):
We do people civilians. That's the thing. It's like, as
long as your government, you're okay with murder, and you're
good with murder, and you can get away with it.
But if you're a civilian, that's not the case. All right,
let's listen to this priest that talked about and he
goes a little bit more in detail by exorcism, because
I think it's very interesting when you think about, like
are there actual demons that can possess you? This is

(01:19:17):
something that's very important to listen to.

Speaker 8 (01:19:20):
I mean, how did you get into exorcistems?

Speaker 9 (01:19:22):
Well, that's interesting too.

Speaker 11 (01:19:23):
You know.

Speaker 16 (01:19:24):
After nine to eleven, I moved up to Boston and
I went up staying with the priest for about nine months,
and he did deliverance ministry. In fact, the very first
weekend I arrived. And I didn't know him that well.
But I'm out of luck. I have no job now,
and now I have no place to live because I was,
you know, I was so close. They closed everything under
Canal Street, so there was no power, there was no gas,

(01:19:46):
there was no electricity, and so basically everyone was told
to go find a place to live for at least
six months because this isn't going to be up and
running anytime soon. So this priest invited me up to Boston.
I said, I'll go. I go up there, and he
was amazing, but he had this ministry. So my first
weekend there, he has this woman in his chapel in

(01:20:08):
the rectory who's slithering across the floor like a snake
and foaming at the mouth, and her eyes are rolled
back in her head and he's doing all these prayers
and then he looks at his watch and he says, Okay,
I'm going to go celebrate mass I'll be back in
an hour. Just stay with her, and I'm like, what
is my first introduction to this life?

Speaker 9 (01:20:27):
He leaves, She looks up at me, and.

Speaker 16 (01:20:29):
She's got this weird look in her eyes, and she's
got the foam coming out of her mouth. And I'm like, oh,
hell no, and I get out of there and I
lock her inside and I sat outside and waited for
him to come back.

Speaker 9 (01:20:39):
When he comes back and he's like, what are you
doing you? What happened to the lady?

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
Go?

Speaker 16 (01:20:43):
No, she's in there, but I'm not staying in there
with her. I mean, are you crazy? You left me
alone with her? And he's like, oh, okay, I sometimes
forget for the people who haven't been around this, it's
a little jarring.

Speaker 9 (01:20:54):
I'm like a little jarring. Look at her. She looks
like a snake. So that was my introduction.

Speaker 16 (01:20:59):
And then for nine months he would do this with people,
and I got more comfortable in being in the room.

Speaker 8 (01:21:04):
With him, Like how many times in nine months?

Speaker 9 (01:21:08):
Probably one or two a month.

Speaker 8 (01:21:11):
One or two a month, yep.

Speaker 9 (01:21:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:21:15):
And then I went into religious life and my superior
was an exorcist, the exist of Omaha.

Speaker 9 (01:21:21):
So now I'm in the room.

Speaker 16 (01:21:24):
Because they usually took the guys who were a little
bit bigger to restrain the victim. And I got five
years of that and then when I got to Nashville,
the bishop knew I was doing that for the religious community,
and he says, you know, I want you to do
that here for my diocese.

Speaker 9 (01:21:41):
Can you do the deliverance?

Speaker 16 (01:21:42):
But he says, I'm not going to make your nextus
because I feel like that's too big a burden on
one priest. And I said okay. And then he died,
God rest his soul Bishop to me. And then the
new bishop comes in and I don't have his authority
because he hasn't given it to me. So as the
priest are calling me for help, I keep referring them
to him. I said, I got to have He has

(01:22:04):
to give me the authority. I don't do this without
being under his protection. And so he finally connects me
and says, you know, why do these priests keep asking
for you? I said, I was doing the deliverance for
the diocese, but when Bishop Shrowby died, I no longer
had the authority, so it's up to you. I said,
are you the exorcist? I said no. He didn't want
any particular priests to be in ecstasy. He thought it

(01:22:26):
was too big a burden. And he says, I don't know,
I'm kind of I kind of feel like you're fighting
with your hands, tide behind your back, like I think
you should become the exorist. So he sends me to
Rome and I get trained and then I come back
and begin as the exorcist.

Speaker 17 (01:22:41):
What does that training consist of? It's intense. It's like,
how does it start? We deserve an introduction? Welcome to
exorcism in school?

Speaker 16 (01:22:53):
You know it's it was for like two weeks, six
days a week, seven in the morning to seven at night.

Speaker 8 (01:22:58):
What is the introduction?

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
Here's George Soros. We're leaving a room with him. Guys,
good luck. We'll see if you come out. No, I
imagine like you're going to exorcism school, Like, like, how
do you even explain that to your friends?

Speaker 15 (01:23:13):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:23:13):
What are you in school for exorcisms? It's crazy, I know,
but yeah, I mean, is this not crazy? He goes
to Rome to do this. Now, obviously he's Catholic priest.
You know, Catholic is an interesting religion. I mean, they
are Christian, they believe in Jesus, they go through to
Mother Mary. I believe. I think if I'm not, I mean,
I'm not a biblical or not biblical, but a religion expert.

(01:23:37):
But I think they do go through to Mother Mary
and Jesus and God and it's like the four trinities,
I guess right. And but Catholics are have always been
very involved there. Their main thing has always been, you know,
the exorcism deal. Obviously, you've got to go through the
Father to you know, admit your sins and all that stuff.

(01:23:58):
Obviously they also have the other you know.

Speaker 5 (01:24:00):
They stuff that goes on a lot, stuff that goes.

Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
On as well, which is very weird. We won't even
go into. I'm not saying that's you know, I guess
subjective for every Catholic.

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
Obviously, thinking about possessions, you think about Catholic priests, because
those are the ones that are trained to get those
possessions out of you.

Speaker 3 (01:24:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
I don't know if there's any other type of religious
faction that is trained to do this.

Speaker 1 (01:24:27):
No, I don't know. I mean probably, I mean I
don't necessarily know that you have to.

Speaker 2 (01:24:32):
Like I would not call my Baptist church up and say, listen,
I'm possessed, can you come get this crazy?

Speaker 1 (01:24:38):
He's going to call He's going to call the cops,
and you're going to go in a mental ward in
a local hospital is what's going to happen. But Catholics
really truly believe that possession exists. And if you go
back through the Bible and you talk about this, you know,
or research this and study this. The Bible talks about this, right,
I mean, it talks about possession. And as I already

(01:25:01):
said earlier, you know, many people believe that Jesus also
was in some way and exorcist and getting demons out
of people that were possessed back in the day thousands
of years ago.

Speaker 5 (01:25:10):
Well, it kind of reminds me. And I'm not saying anything.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
I'm not saying about Jesus, but I'm saying about like
and I'm not even saying anything about priests either.

Speaker 5 (01:25:18):
But I used to watch when I was younger, and
I don't know if.

Speaker 2 (01:25:21):
They still show these people on TV, but these preachers
whatever they were like, there were out there. They would
be preaching, yelling and screaming, and they would they would
touch the.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
Top people's head is one of them.

Speaker 2 (01:25:34):
On their they with their palm, and then the people
would just pass out to the floor and then maybe
somebody couldn't walk, they would start walking again. Or you know,
if they had an ailment, they were healed.

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
Yeah, isn't it funny because there was a meme this
is this is a funny meme. But isn't it funny?
Like you know, you're talking about like Benny Hen and
some of these I don't know who they were, or
they would put their palm on the foreheads they would
they would be you know, possessed, or they would have
demons in them whatever, and they would palm them right
on the freaking pretty hard to give him a concussion.
They would fall back off the stairs into the congregation,

(01:26:09):
and then the next week, the next week, they would
come back in a wheelchair and they're like, how did
this dude get in a wheelchair?

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
But if you watch this week, just broke his legs
the last time he was in church, if.

Speaker 1 (01:26:24):
You watched the previous week, is because Benny Hen pushed
him off the damn stage and he broke both his legs.
That's why he's now in a wheelchair. And he's like, no,
you're gonna walk right now.

Speaker 5 (01:26:35):
Yeah, I'm gonna heal you kill you.

Speaker 1 (01:26:37):
And then he pushes the whole wheelchair off. And then
the next week he's like, hey, you remember the guy
in the wheelchair last week, he's healed, he ain't here
this week.

Speaker 2 (01:26:44):
We should not be mocking religion. We should, but it
is kind of funny. Well, it reminds me of the
interview we watched today to play it. Are we gonna gosh,
you guys are gonna die now?

Speaker 1 (01:26:56):
This is you're talking about Kenneth Copeland.

Speaker 2 (01:26:58):
Yes, oh my god, that was crazy Kenneth Copeland.

Speaker 1 (01:27:03):
But listen, there is obviously these TV evangelists. That's what
you call these people, the Bennies, the Kenneth Copeland's.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
Oh yeah, what was the one that he went to
Jael and his wife? She had all the blue makeup.

Speaker 5 (01:27:15):
Do you know who I'm talking?

Speaker 11 (01:27:16):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:27:16):
Yeah, yeah, you're talking about? Oh god, yeah, I know.
I can't think of.

Speaker 2 (01:27:21):
The name, the name, I'm sure you guys know, but yeah,
she had all the blue makeup her I think her
husband went to jail.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
Yes, I think it's taxes.

Speaker 5 (01:27:31):
Yeah, yeah, it's right on the tip of my tongue.
I can't think of it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
And I think her name was like Patsy or somebody
or I don't know. I don't know, but yeah, I mean,
you know, when we played the interview in a little
bit like they seem to have issues with taxes unless
you're a church, and they don't have a lot of
issues with taxes. I don't know how they got him
necessarily because you know the Bakers, Yeah, Baker's yeah, the
Baker's yeah, you're exactly right. Was it Jim Baker and

(01:27:57):
whatever her name was, Yeah, yeah. But the thing is
is like now they have allowed churches to basically be
tax exempt. And we'll talk about that in the clip
we're going to play later, because we're just here hanging
out tonight. It is about eight thirteen pm. We're an
hour and thirty three in, even though we've got a
couple edits because we've well, actually, when we were talking
about Satan earlier, I spilled my whole drink on my

(01:28:18):
phone and then it was speeding up everything. So if
you guys, if you guys heard some speed up or
if I don't get that edit, just know it was
Satan and it was not me. All right, let's listen
to some more because this gets more interesting, and then
we'll play the interview. We're talking about.

Speaker 16 (01:28:35):
What do they say, Well, this is kind of going
to be the syllabus and protocol for what we're going
to go into. It's probably about six or seven different fields,
you know, Biblical practicums, the Devil, and Hollywood the Devil,
and media the Devil. You know, Harry Potter had its
own class, h Potter. Oh yeah, So, uh, you get

(01:29:02):
finished up, they pair you with a mentor who's been
doing this a while. And my mentor was in Indianapolis,
and so I met with him on a kind of
regular basis, and he took me through some of his
cases and I watched him do actual exorcisms. And then,
you know, I eventually get your first case that you
you do it, and uh, I'll never forget it.

Speaker 9 (01:29:23):
It was in Murphy's Borough, hold.

Speaker 17 (01:29:25):
On, hold on before before we get there. How how
long is the school? It's like two weeks, two weeks.
It's entirely. They put it like two months into two weeks.

Speaker 3 (01:29:36):
Is it?

Speaker 8 (01:29:37):
Is it bookwork? Is it practical?

Speaker 9 (01:29:39):
It's everything.

Speaker 3 (01:29:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:29:41):
We actually have case studies of actual exorcisms that have
been performed. What happened, What you should do, what you
shouldn't do? That class was the best class. Don't do this?
What do you so if the if the victim vomits
up anything including it could be vomit, it could be.

Speaker 9 (01:30:00):
Small frogs, it could be nails.

Speaker 1 (01:30:02):
Do not touch them, okay, listen, no shit, Like, if
someone is vomiting frogs and nails, I am not touching them.

Speaker 8 (01:30:12):
I don't care.

Speaker 5 (01:30:13):
What if you kiss it, are you gonna have our print?

Speaker 1 (01:30:15):
No, you're gonna have satan. And I think that's the
whole point. It's like, how do you like, how is
that part of a class?

Speaker 18 (01:30:23):
Hey?

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
By the way, guys, here's here's here's vomiting one oh three.
If they vomit nails or frogs, you probably should not
touch them.

Speaker 5 (01:30:31):
You should probably go through the OSHA class first.

Speaker 3 (01:30:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:34):
Yeah, you gotta have your ppe in this particular incident.

Speaker 16 (01:30:38):
Anyways, curse to objects until you liberate the objects from
the demons and the curses and then you can clean
them up. I'm like, I'm not touching anybody's vomit, period.
I don't care if you're a demon possessed or not. Like,
that's not my thing, you know, I'd be like, can
someone come in and help me?

Speaker 9 (01:30:58):
And then, knowing that this is.

Speaker 16 (01:30:59):
Going to actually you know, you touch it and then
suddenly you're covered in boils like it's a whole level
of care and attention to dealing with possessed objects.

Speaker 8 (01:31:10):
Do they talk about how it happens?

Speaker 9 (01:31:14):
How does one get possessed?

Speaker 8 (01:31:15):
Oh?

Speaker 16 (01:31:16):
Yeah, of course. And the two biggest ways are dabbling
in the occult and what does that mean? Playing with
demonic things Wiji boards, going to a psychic tarret cards,
or actual occult worship of the devil. Those are pretty

(01:31:36):
much immediate open doors that you're gonna have demons come
right in.

Speaker 8 (01:31:39):
Psychics are demonic.

Speaker 9 (01:31:41):
Yeah, they're not.

Speaker 16 (01:31:42):
They're not channeling your dead relatives. So right now we
have at least three Guarden angels in the room. There's
also probably demons in this room, and they're listening and
they hear every bit of what we're saying. Excuse me,
And when somebody says, well, the psychic told me, my
mother shared this with me when I was ten, and

(01:32:05):
nobody ever knew that but us, So it has to
be my mom except for the demons in the room
who also heard it. And now they're impersonating your mother.
If your mother's in heaven, she's having a good day.
She doesn't want to come back and visit you. As
much as mothers love their children. If she's in purgatory,
she needs our prayers to get her moved into heaven.

(01:32:25):
And if she's in hell, there's no getting out. It's
not your mother. They can put up a good show
and it's very you know. They can also place thoughts
in our minds, and they can manipulate our emotions. And
when you have that trifecta, the person is one believes

(01:32:45):
it's their mother.

Speaker 17 (01:32:47):
Interesting and so so how would so if you're a psychic,
then I'm getting a reading from you, How does the
transmission happen.

Speaker 16 (01:33:03):
Well, they're in touch with a demon that they may
even think it really is a relative.

Speaker 9 (01:33:10):
But I think most of them know that there's a power.

Speaker 16 (01:33:12):
Then they're tapping into that is dark and they're not
going to share that with you. In fact, some of
them will put Christian statues in the room. You know,
Sacred Heart is over here, a lady, if Adam is
over here, just to lower the anxiety level of the
person coming in, because a lot of people have heard
it's really not a good thing.

Speaker 9 (01:33:29):
But they get desperate.

Speaker 16 (01:33:31):
You know, when people are desperate or in fear, they
do things they wouldn't normally do. So like after the
Civil War, these Charlatans came up with these talking boards
that they were going around and visiting all the widows saying,
I can contact your dead husband, the soldier who died,

(01:33:52):
if you know can pay me this amount, we can
do it with this talking board. And they made a
lot of money off of these poor widows. And then
that eventually became what was being known as the Wigi board,
which was bought by Hasbro Toy Company. And they're based
in Salem, Massachusetts, the capital of Witchcraft, and they have

(01:34:16):
consultants who went into the development of these boards that
became Oigi boards. And then they are the first to
say that they asked the board what its name is
and it said Wigi, which means nothing. And the first
year they went to market, the number one board game
was Monopoly, and that year Wigi boards outsold Monopoly by
a million boards. So it was embraced by the culture

(01:34:40):
like fast.

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
There you go, and there's Wherewigi board came from and
Hasbro and from Salem, all well, and that's the thing.
I mean, Oigi board came from the Civil War era.
And then Hasbro bought this board and then they marketed
it to kids.

Speaker 2 (01:34:58):
Yeah, and that's a wrong thing to do because they
did market to kids because I was one of those
kids that I owned a Wigi board.

Speaker 1 (01:35:05):
Yeah, and that's probably why you're still possessed.

Speaker 2 (01:35:07):
Yeah, but I you know, I was thinking earlier in
this podcast, and I am not possessed, by the way,
if anyone's possessed as you, but I was thinking back
to my past as a child, like when did this
stuff start happening to me? Was it before or after
the Ouiji board? But I know for a fact it
was before. I know for a fact it was before.

Speaker 1 (01:35:28):
But that's probably what led you to get a Wigi board.

Speaker 2 (01:35:31):
No, no, no, no, further no, we all just thought
it was a fun game. But that thing is real.
That thing moves unless somebody else was moving the thing.
I never moved it.

Speaker 1 (01:35:40):
Yeah, but also get you have to understand. That's why
I've told people on this podcast so many times. And
I know we're making funnies.

Speaker 2 (01:35:46):
And light up somebody, No, that's stuff serious, absolutely, and
I'm talking about young We were playing it, and I
always thought somebody else was moving it.

Speaker 1 (01:35:54):
But it's the same thing in my mind. It's like,
you know, how do you shape the future? You have
to you have to intervene and intercept the kids, because
the number one line that's always been the most true
is the kids are our future.

Speaker 3 (01:36:09):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:36:09):
And I remember my mom was telling me the other day.
When I was growing up, Ross Perrot was running for
president and one of the things I guess I used
to I used to go I used to go around
and act like Ross pro Ross pro Is is a little short,
skinny dad guy bald. I think he had a little yeah, yeah,
but he was a rich guy. Yeah, and he would
always come around and be like, let's do it for
our children, you know, and you know, and that was

(01:36:32):
a weird accent, but was from Texas. No, he is
from the South. But he's like, let's do it for
our kids or our children whatever. But the thing is, like,
I think there are a faction of people that also
believe we should do it for our children, meaning like
let's possess our kids as early as possible. And so
whereas Hasbro, a toy company, bought the Ouiji board to
then put on your kids to open themselves up to

(01:36:53):
demonic possession, potentially we still have this opening up of
the devil in a cult side. In today's world, it's
just much easier. You don't need a Ouiji warn anymore.
You need music, videos, you need you need cartoons, you
need shows Hollywood, you need all these things. You're a
kid or your kids are watching on a daily basis,
whether it's YouTube or their cartoons or whatever. All of

(01:37:16):
that stuff, in a lot of ways is opening up
your kids to a potential connection to the other side.

Speaker 5 (01:37:22):
Yeah, Disney's a big one.

Speaker 1 (01:37:23):
Well, don't say that allegedly, Oh allegedly. Maybe probably not Disney,
You're not at.

Speaker 5 (01:37:29):
All Okay, Yeah, you're right, You're the best.

Speaker 2 (01:37:31):
That's why my friends go and visit every year and
their kids are like twenty five years old.

Speaker 1 (01:37:36):
Yeah. Yeah, well they're possessed. I mean that's the point.
I mean, there's no there's no other reason why you
could go to Disney at twenty five other than being
possessed by something. It's the same way that you go
to the river and look for orbs. They are going
to Disney to look for Satan. Sorry, they're going to
That's not true. So I do have another clip, and

(01:37:58):
we have a couple of things. We're going to talk
about a couple of things, but we have the Dafeo interview,
which I'm trying to decide if we should get to.
We probably are going to get to that, but I
also have the Kenneth Copeland interview, and but before I
even get to that, I want to play this quickly.
Kenneth Copeland was on stage. He's done this quite a
few times now. We've heard of people talking in tongues, right,

(01:38:21):
I've told the story before when I went to a
a church, a particular church, and I've been to this church.
Was I mean, they were running, okay, so they were like, hey,
bow your heads to pray. I thought everything was normal.
Bowed my had to pray, and then I start hearing
like I thought there was a school shooter or a
church shooter in the building.

Speaker 2 (01:38:42):
Even though not then is what they say. They use
that for what they say. It's a language that Satan
doesn't know. And so even though you don't know what
you're saying, you're talking to God through a language that
the devil doesn't know.

Speaker 5 (01:38:55):
Okay, that's why they used tongues.

Speaker 1 (01:38:57):
I get that, and so I bowed my had to pray,
and then I started hearing the aisles of the church
vibrating with people running up and down. They were falling
on the aisles, they were rolling like I mean, they
were possessed almost. I mean, if you think about how
some of these exorcist priests talking about possessions, what it
looked like they were rolling around, they were jumping off

(01:39:18):
the stage. I mean, I'm surprised. I mean I literally
I think I saw like an eighty five year old
woman jump four Oh my god, like like four steps,
and I was like, I was wondering if she was
gonna break her ankle. Then she didn't.

Speaker 5 (01:39:30):
You shouldn't have been pecking.

Speaker 1 (01:39:31):
No, I was definitely watching. I was like, what the
hell is going on here? And I had to pray
to my God because I don't know what this god was,
but I had to pray to my God to protect
me in this church. And by the way, there, I
guarantee you the person I was with in that church
is listening right now. And I'm not even going to
say it was because their dad.

Speaker 8 (01:39:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:39:49):
I've been to churches like their dad was the pastor
of this church.

Speaker 2 (01:39:52):
And I have friends that go to churches today like
now that still go to those kind of churches. So
we should not be mocking those churches.

Speaker 1 (01:39:59):
Okay, sorry, Sorry, guys that go those trips.

Speaker 2 (01:40:03):
I mean, I have a personal friend that went to
classes and learned how to speak in tongues, and that's
how I know about why they do that.

Speaker 1 (01:40:12):
Okay, So this clip is Kenneth Copeland on stage at
his megachurch, right, Kenneth Copeland. Sorry for those that do
not know who he is. He is the richest evangelist
slash pastor in the United States of America. He's worth
a damn near one billion dollars. And so he was
on stage at one of his many sermons and this

(01:40:34):
happens all the time apparently, but he was on stage,
he was talking about stuff, and this is before we
get into the interview. And I think maybe this clip
might lead you into understanding why the interview, like what
we're about to talk about happen. But the actual I
guess title of this video says Kenneth Copeland, possessed on stage.

(01:40:56):
I want you to tell me what your thoughts are listening.

Speaker 19 (01:41:00):
Give you a chance to raise your income.

Speaker 4 (01:41:03):
Praise God.

Speaker 19 (01:41:04):
You missed a place to shout right there that you
need to.

Speaker 4 (01:41:06):
Get used to this now, Gloria to God.

Speaker 19 (01:41:12):
Of course, all of our offerings will go toward the
outreaches of Kenneth Copeland Ministries and especially Kenneth Copeland Ministries,
Canada and it is and and the territories under which
the Canadian office uh is.

Speaker 8 (01:41:34):
She goes on.

Speaker 4 (01:41:37):
Dave Mahunt in.

Speaker 20 (01:41:43):
Gando's Immaz.

Speaker 1 (01:41:51):
Okay, I want to explain this clip for a second,
because this guy's just talking about Canada, and you know,
his tax invasion probably was may be happening with Canada.
But look, he is in a normal sentence conversation, and
so listen.

Speaker 19 (01:42:07):
We'll go toward the outrages of Kenneth Copeland Ministries and
especially Kenneth Copeland Ministries, Canada and it is and the
territories under which the Canadian office is.

Speaker 1 (01:42:26):
Okay. So he pauses here and it's like something is
it well possessing him?

Speaker 5 (01:42:33):
He's more like Joe Biden' I forgot what.

Speaker 1 (01:42:35):
He was going to say.

Speaker 5 (01:42:36):
He's like, I got to cover up and I got
to speaking tongues.

Speaker 1 (01:42:38):
I don't know, I don't know. But he he stops
here and he has this look in his eyes because
he has a weird look. Yeah, the camera kind of
pins in and it's like, what the hell is he
about to say, and he almost looks like like how
you might find someone on the street that's about to
mug you or shoot you and kill you. It's kind
of what his eyes look like. But listen, she go on, man.

Speaker 20 (01:43:09):
And gandom shamlana lelo.

Speaker 4 (01:43:20):
N in stelestattatak.

Speaker 19 (01:43:24):
The movement of the spirit of God that has been
prayed over all.

Speaker 1 (01:43:30):
Right, so there you go. And there may not be
anything to that, I mean not at all. He might
not at all be possessed. He might be a normal
guy out there to speaking in tongues. And then you
hear the Kenneth Copeland interview with Inside Edition where they
kind of bombard him on the tarmac where he's about

(01:43:53):
to get into his Tyler Perry. You know, multi million
dollar jet he got a great deal on. Keep in mind, well,
let's listen to this.

Speaker 15 (01:44:03):
How are you, sir? We'd just like to ask you
about why you don't want to fly commercial. Why have
you said that you won't fly commercial? You said that
it's like getting into a tube with a bunch of demons.

Speaker 14 (01:44:14):
Why do you think that?

Speaker 4 (01:44:15):
No, listen to me, just saying not the people.

Speaker 18 (01:44:20):
The main reason is because of the need if I
flew commercial. I'd have to stop sixty five percent of
what I'm doing. That's really me.

Speaker 15 (01:44:32):
Isn't it true that you want to fly commercial so
that you can fly in luxury? How much money did
you pay for Tyler Perry's Gulf Stream Jet for example?

Speaker 4 (01:44:41):
Well, for example, that's really none of your business.

Speaker 15 (01:44:43):
But isn't it the business of your donors I've paid?

Speaker 4 (01:44:52):
You kind of called me off guard here, okay, certain.

Speaker 1 (01:44:55):
Yeah, you don't want to say how much you paid
for that because that looks really bad. Is a holy shit,
I cannot say that word that number. There's no way
I can say, like sixty million, So I better not
say that.

Speaker 15 (01:45:07):
If you like to come out here, I'd like to
give you a chance to catch your breath and have
a conversation. We don't want to We don't want to
catch off guard.

Speaker 18 (01:45:14):
I love Inside Edition. You got to get this now.
Hey you listening to me? My wife thinks Inside Edition
is oh yeah, now, thank you Lord, help me let
me prayse.

Speaker 5 (01:45:28):
Well, let me let me just ask you a really, Jesus,
what am I going to say?

Speaker 1 (01:45:33):
Yeah? Well, you don't do very well, which is why
Jesus was not talking to you in this interview. It
was a satan I think question.

Speaker 15 (01:45:41):
A lot of people think it's unbecoming for a preacher
to live a life of luxury and to fly around
in private jets.

Speaker 14 (01:45:49):
What's your response to that?

Speaker 18 (01:45:51):
Very simple. It takes a lot of money to do
what we do. We have brought over one hundred let's see,
the latest figure just came out, one hundred and twenty
two million people to the Lord Jesus Christ. Let me
give you another example. Last May, I was scheduled for Legos, Nigeria.

Speaker 4 (01:46:20):
As a long way.

Speaker 18 (01:46:23):
I had a week off and I was scheduled for Peru.

Speaker 1 (01:46:28):
And you can't get to Nigeria on the demon tubes.
You got to take luxury planes from Tyler Perry. I mean,
he's the guy that created media. Bro, how are we
not buying the luxury Medea plane got them mighty? These
Inside Edition people were asking me these crazy ask questions
like why do we spend sixty million dollars on a

(01:46:50):
plane and why are there demons and commercial flights? I
don't know, you tell me shit.

Speaker 18 (01:46:56):
And I prayed about it and I thought, I'm mission
that dedication in Jerusalem without the airplane that we have
that I bought from Tanner Perry and I didn't pay
anywhere any Tyler's one of the greatest guys.

Speaker 4 (01:47:10):
He made it.

Speaker 18 (01:47:11):
He made that airplane so cheap for me. I couldn't
help but buy it.

Speaker 1 (01:47:15):
It was like it was originally seventy million and he
made it like sixty eight million. They're like, crazy of
a deal? Was that shit? Crazy?

Speaker 8 (01:47:26):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (01:47:27):
Cherry?

Speaker 8 (01:47:28):
Oh my gosh, that's why.

Speaker 1 (01:47:29):
By the way, if I ever buy anything, and I'm like, no,
he made me a deal on this. Are you are
you satan? Are you trying to say that God did
not replenish? What anyways?

Speaker 5 (01:47:40):
Oh my gosh, I questioned.

Speaker 15 (01:47:41):
And well, okay, all right, but I want to get
to the demons because people are very concerned about that comment.

Speaker 18 (01:47:47):
Cherry, inside edition, I love your eyes, And here's what happened.

Speaker 1 (01:47:55):
Here's what had happened was about Jerusalem.

Speaker 4 (01:47:58):
We flew in twenty one.

Speaker 18 (01:48:01):
Days, seventy hours, forty thousand miles, touched five continents, and
preached face to face personally with one hundred and twenty
five thousand people.

Speaker 14 (01:48:21):
Do you ever.

Speaker 15 (01:48:24):
Do you ever use your private jets to go visit
your vacation homes?

Speaker 14 (01:48:28):
For example?

Speaker 15 (01:48:29):
Yes, I do okay again, getting back to the comment,
you said that you don't like to fly commercial because
you don't want to get into a tube with a
bunch of demons. Do you really believe that human beings
are demons?

Speaker 10 (01:48:40):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:48:41):
I do not, And don't you ever say I did.

Speaker 5 (01:48:46):
This dude's eyes right now, by the way like demonish yes.

Speaker 1 (01:48:49):
And he's pointing to her. He goes over his door
in his you know Catallac Escalade, which he got a
great deal off from the Cadillac also to say, you know,
you got an amazing deal, so don't you dare even
ask about that price?

Speaker 9 (01:49:03):
E there?

Speaker 1 (01:49:04):
But he literally goes over the door and puts his
finger in her face and he's like, don't you dare
ask about that? Anyways, God help me because I'm about
to kill as a woman.

Speaker 18 (01:49:18):
You wrestle not with flesh and blood, but principalitician powers.

Speaker 15 (01:49:24):
Can you explain what you meant by that by that term?
Then just explain, because it's really simple. You said you
didn't want to get into a tube with a bunch
of demons.

Speaker 4 (01:49:31):
What did you mean the well, let me ask you.

Speaker 14 (01:49:35):
Do you think that people that fly commercial or demons?

Speaker 18 (01:49:38):
Give me a chance to talk, sweetheart, I'll explain this
to you. But it's a biblical thing, it's a spiritual thing.
It doesn't have anything to do with people.

Speaker 9 (01:49:47):
People.

Speaker 18 (01:49:48):
I love people, Jesus loves people. But people get pushed
in alcohol. Do you think that's a good place for
a preacher to be and prepare to go preach to
a lot of people when somebody in there is dragging
some woman downe And now it made me so mad

(01:50:09):
to see that on television.

Speaker 4 (01:50:10):
I wanted to punch a guy out myself. I can't
be doing that while I'm getting ready to.

Speaker 1 (01:50:14):
Preach by a bunch of damned demons.

Speaker 5 (01:50:18):
Do you not think that's when you should be preaching
the most?

Speaker 1 (01:50:21):
Yeah, you should be preaching on the freaking demon plane. Like,
what the hell's wrong with you? I mean, it doesn't
happen that that often.

Speaker 5 (01:50:28):
Well, you think about Jesus.

Speaker 2 (01:50:30):
Jesus went to the most filthy, ugliest people there were,
and that's who he preached to, And that's what I
thought you're supposed to do.

Speaker 1 (01:50:39):
Yeah, I mean, I just wonder though, if Jesus would
have bought.

Speaker 2 (01:50:42):
A I mean, you probably not in the sense of looking,
but the ugly on the inside.

Speaker 1 (01:50:47):
Yeah. I wonder if Jesus would have bought a G
five versus flying southwest. Yeah, probably Jesus would have flun
or he probably would have just walked.

Speaker 5 (01:50:56):
Yeah, I think he almost his sandals.

Speaker 3 (01:50:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:50:58):
And the reality of this is Kenneth Copeland in this interview.
I'm going to play the rest of this, but we're
making light of this. And it's funny because it's there
are people literally like this that represent themselves as Christians
and as evangelists, that make multi, multi millions of dollars.
And if you look at his church services, they're packed,

(01:51:21):
they're packed. It's kind of the same thing with Joel
Ostein during the hurricane.

Speaker 2 (01:51:24):
They're promising them riches and you know, things that they
can't really promise.

Speaker 1 (01:51:29):
No, they can't. But I mean Joel Ostein during the
hurricane in Texas where he did not open up his
church to the people that needed the most, and then
after all the backlash, she's like, oh, no, we didn't
do that, We'll open our church up whatever. This is
not godly behavior, this is not the behavior of Jesus.

Speaker 5 (01:51:48):
But we're not here to judge either no or not.

Speaker 1 (01:51:51):
But Jesus is going to And I'll tell you that's
the biggest difference of other religions in regardless of what
you think is true or not. You know, other religions
are based on a lot of different things. Jesus was
someone that came down and he washed the feet of
the thiefs, He washed the feet of the criminals, and
he led those criminals to salvation. And this is what

(01:52:14):
we are supposed to be called on. If you follow
Jesus or you are a true christ believer, your job
is to not separate yourself from the people that you
think that you are above, because nobody on this planet
is above anybody. You are abut you are literally there
to be called on to talk and preach and worship

(01:52:35):
to those people. And it doesn't matter even the people
that hate you the most. And listen, I promise you,
I'm preaching not to the choir because.

Speaker 8 (01:52:42):
I am.

Speaker 1 (01:52:44):
My mind and the way my mind works on so
many things I can get so much better at. But
when I hear people like this, and I see this
and his representation of Christians, of people that are evangelical,
that are on TV that preach all this stuff, the
fact that he makes this amount of money from people
that are there worshiping. And I don't even think they're

(01:53:05):
worshiping God in a lot of cads. I'm not saying
all people, but I think a lot of people worship him,
and I think he believes that he.

Speaker 5 (01:53:12):
Gets in this God like he's an idol.

Speaker 1 (01:53:14):
He's an idol. And exactly and the Bible that.

Speaker 2 (01:53:17):
You're talking about Jesus washing the people's feet and as
you're saying that my dog is licking my feet, maybe
he is the next Jesus.

Speaker 1 (01:53:27):
No he's not. But what I'm saying is my point
to this is that this is what leads so many
people astray from Christianity, from religion. Is when you have
people like Kenneth Copeland and I even consider, you know,
Joel Ostein. I don't know for sure what his heart is.
I don't know what any of these people heart is.
All I'm saying is that this is what leads people astray.

Speaker 15 (01:53:50):
You just don't like to be around the sinful people
or the hurtful people.

Speaker 14 (01:53:54):
Is that what you're saying.

Speaker 4 (01:53:55):
The people lay, not the people.

Speaker 8 (01:54:03):
Back during the days, we couldn't.

Speaker 4 (01:54:06):
Do anything else. We had to travel commercial.

Speaker 18 (01:54:10):
I've when I went to Old Roberts University. I flew
for Oil Roberts. I'm the commercial power, so I spent
a lot of time in airport.

Speaker 14 (01:54:19):
You have how many planes?

Speaker 4 (01:54:21):
We have the Gulf Stream.

Speaker 18 (01:54:24):
And we still have our citation team, and then we
have a little small airplane. But both those are the
two onms that we use, and we use them all
the time, and other people use them too.

Speaker 4 (01:54:34):
We have other ministries that use these.

Speaker 1 (01:54:37):
In the book, and by the way, that plane's probably
just those two planes he's talking about. The golf Stream
and the Citation ten probably worth somewhere in the neighborhood
one hundred million dollars, so that small plane's probably worth
like twenty million. I don't know what the small plane
he's talking about is. But when you're talking about golf
Stream and citation tens or whatever. Now the question is

(01:54:58):
should a pastor like Ken the Copeland be able to
travel in luxury and have you know, by the way,
he also has a seven million dollar house. This tax
exempt because the thing is with five oh one c's
or you know, or even the church exemption to taxes.
A lot of these pastors they make bookoos of money

(01:55:20):
and their tax exempt because everything they do, they put
through tax exemption.

Speaker 2 (01:55:25):
Yeah, that's what you get to a I'm not trying
to argue the point. I'm just saying I do get
the point. When you're going to five different continents and
you're going to all these different places, you kind of
only really do need a plane to get placed to
get lace. Instead of having to sit in the airport
for three hours for this, you know, departure and then

(01:55:48):
have a layover for two hours and then get on
this plane and then then go gear and go there.
I mean, I think at that point, when you are traveling,
and you're a traveling speaker of some sense, you have
to have a plane.

Speaker 3 (01:56:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:56:00):
I just think it's the way that Kenneth Copeland answered
these questions is horribly wrong. It's just he did not
do a good job.

Speaker 4 (01:56:08):
But whatever, Ephesians, oh God, how about this.

Speaker 18 (01:56:14):
We wrestle not with people, but with principalities and powers,
unseen things, the rulers of the darkness of this world.
Talking about the devil, he's a very real devil, just
the same as Jesus is a very real lord. And

(01:56:41):
I spent a lot of time on airlines. But the
main thing that happened was not. That wasn't the main reason.
The main reason was I could no longer.

Speaker 4 (01:56:56):
Do what I called.

Speaker 8 (01:56:58):
To do.

Speaker 18 (01:57:00):
And be on airlines. Besides that, I need my clothes
when I get there, and you have.

Speaker 15 (01:57:05):
Some fancy clothes. I mean for a pastor. You are
living a life of luxury. You've got great homes, you've
got great planes, you do you drive in.

Speaker 8 (01:57:15):
Limos and very wealthy man.

Speaker 14 (01:57:17):
You're a very wealthy man. Yes, yeah, And so people
would say that is it? Is it appreciation?

Speaker 4 (01:57:21):
May I add something to that?

Speaker 10 (01:57:24):
Uh?

Speaker 18 (01:57:25):
My wealth doesn't come from offerings alone, because you.

Speaker 14 (01:57:30):
Sell things books and DVDs.

Speaker 18 (01:57:32):
Yes, And I have a lot of natural gash on
our property. Didn't know that, did you?

Speaker 4 (01:57:37):
Baby?

Speaker 14 (01:57:38):
Now I do, Yeah, you do.

Speaker 4 (01:57:40):
Isn't that wonderful?

Speaker 14 (01:57:41):
Well, I guess it's wonderful for you back when.

Speaker 4 (01:57:46):
And I might add another thing too.

Speaker 18 (01:57:49):
We invest from Uh let's see, I don't know the
exact number on leash year, Yeah, but it will run
something in the neighborhood of twenty twenty five million.

Speaker 4 (01:58:04):
In the poor you can't do that and be broke.

Speaker 15 (01:58:09):
So final question is a lot of people maybe have
a misunderstanding then about what you do and prosperity preaching.

Speaker 14 (01:58:15):
So the final question is this.

Speaker 15 (01:58:18):
To those critics that say that a preacher should not
be living a life of luxury, what is your response
to that they're wrong?

Speaker 18 (01:58:30):
That's it that it's a misunderstanding of the Bible that
if you go into the Old Covenant. Do you think
that Jewish people believe you should be broke?

Speaker 15 (01:58:48):
Are you saying that Jewish people they appreciate money more
than rare.

Speaker 4 (01:58:53):
They believe in wealth.

Speaker 14 (01:58:55):
Some people would find that offensive.

Speaker 18 (01:58:57):
Wait a minute, now, I'm not talking about some people.
I'm talking about the Bible. The blessing of Abraham. Abraham
was extremely wealthy and he had covenant with God. It's
not the Jewish blessing. It's the Abrahamic blessing. How I
get excited talking about it because I love it? And

(01:59:19):
I started out deep in debt with nothing, which is
another story.

Speaker 4 (01:59:26):
But anyway, so you.

Speaker 15 (01:59:28):
Say that it's biblical and that there's a foundation in
the Bible for that, mean close it with this.

Speaker 18 (01:59:34):
I had to learn this, like I said, from the
Bible and from my spiritual mentor or Roberts, and I
learned it from him, working with him, and then we
became he was close friends until he died, and he
took the same heat for believing God would prosper you

(01:59:55):
that I've taken over the years. And Abraham was very,
very wealthy man Galatians chapter three. If you belong to Christ,
then are you Abraham's seed and heirs according to his promise,

(02:00:24):
And his promise was great wealth.

Speaker 1 (02:00:27):
All right, So there is Kenth Copeland, and listen, My
last message to this is that we talked about the
Mnyville horror. We talked about the demon like spirits that
inhabit this world. And one thing I want to let
you guys know is that inhabitants it and inhabits almost

(02:00:49):
everything that we kind of experience, that we touched, that
we see, that we listen to. And you can follow
the wrong people. And you know, Kenneth Copeland in this interview,
it sounds like he's more for the money, more for
his own ego, more for what he believes he is
getting through preaching about God, not for God's own mission,

(02:01:16):
not for his worship, not for what Jesus and God
are about, but for Kenneth Copeland himself. And there are
so many people like that today that is sickening and
I'm not saying that Kenneth Copeland is a bad person.
You guys can make your own judgment on that. But
what I am saying is is that as he says
that we do not wrestle with flesh and blood, although

(02:01:38):
he got that saying wrong the second time, we wrestle
with the darker side, the principalities, the evil spirits, and
those evil spirits can inhabit human flesh, and that human
flesh can then represent themselves as Christ followers, and those
are called false prophets. And there were many false prophets

(02:01:59):
in the Bible. There were many, and there are many
people still today that you will follow and worship, whether
you understand or realize it or not, that are going
to lead you into a place that is not like
of God, not of Jesus, but of their own ego,
and that then creates your ego and ken the Copeland,

(02:02:19):
I think, is a great example of this. The Amiville
horror stuff. Is it fiction or is it fact? That's
the question. Was the Lust family a grifter or were
they not?

Speaker 2 (02:02:31):
And hopefully we'll have a series two where we actually
play the interview with Butch.

Speaker 1 (02:02:39):
Yeah, Old Butch, Yeah, the guy Ronald Junior Butch. He
has an actual interview which we're going to break down
and talk about it and see whether we think he's
full of shit, Like is he telling the truth? Is
this a big grift the Amniville horror story because his
story is completely different. Absolutely it is. But the reality

(02:03:02):
is what we wanted to talk about in this episode
is that regardless of whether these people were grifters, it's
the same thing with the UFO community. There are definitely
going to be grifters in everything. There's going to be
grifters in religion and God and Jesus and UFOs and
you name it. I mean, there's grifters in everything health.
I mean, there's a reason why you see so many

(02:03:23):
health influencers that are trying to sell you something. People
are trying to sell you something in the paranormal, whether
it's movies, books, or other people are trying to sell
you something on religion. I mean, there's a reason why
Ken Copeland and people like this get so rich. They
sell you something based on their grift to that ideology

(02:03:44):
or to that you know, topic or whatever it is theme.
But what you have to do is you have to
be as grounded and researched as possible, and you have
to be you know, And that's what I tell share
out of time. There are things that you can take
out of everything, and even with Sherry's, like you know,
the orb deal and when you want to go and

(02:04:05):
check out the orbs and communicate with those things. I
think there are absolutely certain facets of like what some
of these exorcists say about how you can open yourself
up to demonic possession or obsession or oppression. And I
think that we're often times, in most cases tempted the

(02:04:26):
other way rather than we're tempted towards God or towards Jesus.
America does have, I guess, some backbone with God, but
that's fast approaching non existence. America is straying more and
more away from God than it is for God. I

(02:04:46):
think there are more egos in our government and more
I guess what you can call control freaks in our
government than ever before. I think that we're seeing this
around the world. But I do want to play out
this episod, And we're going to talk about the interview,
right Ronald Jr. We're gonna talk about Ronald Jr. And

(02:05:07):
he's the guy that committed the murders. Yeah, he's the
one that committed to murders. And on the next part
of this series, we're going to break down his interview.
What we think, do we think he's lying, do we
think he's telling the truth, all of that. But we're
gonna close this out with the old, good old song
A B C D E f U. And the reason

(02:05:30):
we're playing it out with this is because there's a
lot of people like old Kenth Copeland that make a
ship ton of money off of what you believe that
they say. So this is a song for those people.
So next time, guys, we love you, peace out.

Speaker 21 (02:05:49):
Any friends say a girl, everybody but you dog one
even shout about my tongue when you saw a ship?

Speaker 8 (02:06:04):
Are you talking at my phones?

Speaker 21 (02:06:06):
Asking questions andover it led you on the first believe.

Speaker 22 (02:06:12):
They did have got out hate for the attention. She
only made it two days with a connection. It's like I
could do anything for my affection. You're gone, I'll look
about it.

Speaker 5 (02:06:25):
And the worst wes.

Speaker 1 (02:06:28):
I was in too little woman in the frock.

Speaker 23 (02:06:33):
I was trying have been nice, lessense gared th spell
you sister, broadcast hard. That's it your call fuck you
anything I ever see and everybody does it hard.

Speaker 24 (02:06:57):
You cannot fuck off.

Speaker 22 (02:07:04):
We could see you said you just say the space,
and so I gave it and I have nothing to say.

Speaker 21 (02:07:13):
You couldn't shake it, told everyone on the pitch, so
I became the oh said to put yourself above.

Speaker 22 (02:07:23):
I listen to.

Speaker 15 (02:07:25):
I don't know what the.

Speaker 8 (02:07:29):
Shot really nice nonsense.

Speaker 24 (02:07:31):
Good dust, spell shake you many sister, a child.

Speaker 23 (02:07:42):
Then you're Christles count in.

Speaker 21 (02:07:44):
The way your boy sound fuck you're.

Speaker 23 (02:07:47):
Really friends set and everybody listen not fuck God.

Speaker 25 (02:07:59):
Hey you lean to mom ma and sister any job
well you broke, asked card and that's what you call.

Speaker 1 (02:08:17):
I fuck you and to friends I'll.

Speaker 9 (02:08:20):
Never see again.

Speaker 4 (02:08:21):
Everybody but your dog you can all fuck off

All Episodes

Amityville Horror | Demon Possession and the Paranormal Podcasts

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Fudd Around And Find Out

Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Amityville Horror | Demon Possession and the Paranormal Podcasts