Kohberger Pleads Guilty | What the Unsealed Idaho 4 Murder Files Reveal | True Crime Podcast - Investigate Earth Conspiracy Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's just for a minute, I'd fastly even not dream
about you.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
I hate to admitted I'm out of it, dies, I
don't know what to do. Most of the times I
think I'll.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Make it through.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
But all that it takes is one amuch of you
and Etsu.

Speaker 4 (00:34):
Hello and welcome back to Investigator Podcast. I'm your host
chat alongside my beautiful wife Sherry. On tonight's episode, we're
diving into the latest revelations in the Idaho for murder case.
On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, four University of Idaho
students were savaly stabbed to death in their off campus home. Now,
nearly three years later, the man accused, Brian Coberger, has

(00:55):
officially pleaded guilty. Earlier this month, Coburger admitted to the
murders and they deal this bared the death penalty. Just
days ago, he was sent us to four consecutive life
terms without parole, plus an additional decade for burglary. He
offered no apology, no motive, and no explanation. Tonight, we're
joined by Kristin, who's calmed through the newly unsealed case
files to help us unpack what really happened that night.

(01:17):
What evidence sealed his fate, and why so many questions
still remain unanswered. Stay with us. This is going to
be a powerful episode. Guys, welcome to the show. It
is July the twenty ninth, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 5 (01:29):
I believe that is the date. Hopefully that is the date.
I am losing my mind lately. It seems like I
want to go ahead and welcome Kristen to the show. Kristen,
thanks for coming.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
On, absolutely, thanks for having me.

Speaker 4 (01:42):
Not a problem, Christen. I want to go ahead and
let everybody know. I guess a little bit about who
you are while you're on the show. Why we're talking
about the IDO four murders, especially at Brian Coberger until documents.

Speaker 5 (01:53):
What group are you in? I guess on social media?

Speaker 4 (01:56):
And why did people recommend you ever almost anybody.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
I don't know if that's necessarily true, but it's the
University of Idaho Murders Case Discussion Group. It's the biggest
group on Facebook, over like two hundred and sixty thousand
members or something like that. It's absolutely huge, and I
actually this is really one of the first cases that

(02:21):
I've ever I don't know what gotten this deep into
I've always been a fan of forensics and investigative genetic
genealogy things like that, and I ended up joining this
group after I saw the Netflix Don't f with Cats
documentary and somebody I knew was actually in that and

(02:44):
news sort of socially in my circles, and when this
case broke, it was it just for some reason, It's
like so many people, it just was like, WHOA, what
is going on here? And I saw the group founders
on a news segment talking about it about a week
after the it happened, and so I joined the group

(03:05):
thinking I was going to see a bunch of online
sleuths digging in and finding all the facts, and that's
not quite what I found.

Speaker 5 (03:13):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
Well it was chaos.

Speaker 4 (03:17):
Yeah, and christ and we've talked about this, you know,
this murder or these murders, I guess multiple times on
the show. Obviously it was very shocking. And the University
Idaho Murder Case Discussion Group that was a pretty popular
group as far as just mainstream media.

Speaker 5 (03:31):
Correct.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yes, the group founders, the administrators, Christine and Elena, they
both were on News Nation and they've been interviewed many
times just because there was just it was such a
big group, and so much discussion and so many different
things happened to the group. They actually, I don't know,
a lot of people might know about the the video,

(03:54):
the surveillance video with Kaylee and Maddie and their friend
Jack walking down the street and she's saying, what did
you tell Adam? Or you know, what did you say
to Adam? And she said everything. And that video actually
came from one of the group members who gave it
to the admins to have to do what they would
with it, and I believe they I'm not sure exactly

(04:16):
what the order was, and so don't quote me on this,
but it went to the proper authorities, of course, and
then they worked with them of whoever it was who
released it first or however that worked. But so that's
how big this group was and how I mean they had.
They did have some impact on the case, which was
kind of interesting. But and then of course the whole
Papa Rogers thing was all in that group as well,

(04:38):
but a lot of it, lots of rumors, lots of
accusing innocent people and stuff. This group was much better,
probably the best, I would say, because I joined a
few other groups just to see what they're about in
this group. They they really tried to keep that a minimum,
the tax on innocent people and family and Doak saying
they didn't allow any of that stuff, which was which
was really good.

Speaker 5 (04:58):
Yeah, I made them a lot better.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
But even with the two hundred thousand people, it's you
still got craziness.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. I mean, you're you're always going to
find those people. And even when we've done our previous episodes,
I mean when we heard about you know, some of
the people that were speculating maybe this was the murder, maybe.

Speaker 5 (05:14):
This was the murder, you know, when no one knew it.

Speaker 4 (05:16):
Was Brian Coberger at the time, we talked about at
least people's accusations on those people. We always said on
those shows, it's like, look, just because people are talking
about it, you see this in video, we don't know
if this guy is guilty or innocent. I mean, it
may look like it's guilty in it without context or
without even understanding you know, kind of how all that
stuff works out. And I understand like the internet kind

(05:39):
of blows stuff out of proportion. I do want to
ask you, especially being a part of such a large
group and we're going to obviously get into on tonight's
show all the unseld documents, or at least as much
as we can. But what do you feel about like
online sluice right?

Speaker 5 (05:54):
Do you feel like.

Speaker 4 (05:54):
That they are needed? Do you think they do more
benefit than than bad?

Speaker 5 (05:58):
I guess you can.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
Say, oh boy, I'd have to say that I did
not see a lot of benefit to it at all.
I mean, most of what I saw, which was so frustrating,
was just people would hear a rumor, or somebody would speculate,
or some YouTuber TikToker would make some claim, and it

(06:22):
just kept getting repeated as fact, and people like, well
I saw this turned into you know, so and so
said this. That turned into I saw this too, turned
into I read this to into I heard this, and
then people come on and say, well, this is what happened.
It's like, no, that all started from a rumor, and

(06:43):
you know, it was so frustrating, and that's how I
got mostly involved. Next thing I knew, I'm sitting here,
I was creating fact check posts on rumors and stuff
saying no, this is a rumor, and this came in this,
this came from real official source, you know, to try
to you know, organize and get people to know what

(07:04):
the facts were. And so I ended up doing a
lot of deep dives on things and learning a lot
of things about cell towers and how they work and
they and stuff like that. And so when it came
time to do when these documents came out, there were
a lot of things that I was really interested in
to see what was what was true of things that

(07:28):
we had theorized about things that were said that looked
pretty clear that it was true, but we didn't have
confirmation what stuff was debunked. I saw a lot of
stuff in these documents about claims people made about innocent
people that clearly are debunked. Now, like So and So

(07:48):
got kicked out of the bar and was called creepy.
It's like, well, the documents tell us that's not true,
you know. So I was kind of the person that,
you know, when I did the deep dive, I just
did a deep dive into these two and I read
every single one of them, like they're not committed them
to memory, but I've read every single one.

Speaker 6 (08:04):
You are looking for the truth versus what was a
rumor that people thought were fact?

Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, and now we're I'm sorry. I was just going
to say, and now we're seeing it with the documents themselves.
Even in the group, I'm seeing posts come up that say, well,
there's there's this is in the documents, and then you
go and pull the document up, but it doesn't even
say that. Sometimes it's the exact opposite of what it said.
What they're claiming crazy.

Speaker 4 (08:30):
So so one thing I want to get into first
before we get into kind of the details some of
the reports Papa Rogers.

Speaker 5 (08:36):
You had mentioned that in the beginning.

Speaker 4 (08:38):
Of this episode, and so Baba Roger is what we've
recently heard is I guess there is no evidence that
Papa Roger was Brian Coberger. What what what do you
have to say about that? I mean, have you looked
into that pretty deeply?

Speaker 3 (08:53):
Oh yeah, I have spreadsheets, I have screenshots, I have everything. Well,
let me correct you on one thing right right there
is what they said about Papa Rogers. They said that
they did a deep dive and they researched it, and
then the reporter said, and it's not him, and he
said it's not him, and he said it a second time,

(09:15):
it's not him. And so it's not that they couldn't
find evidence. They didn't say. He didn't say, well, we
didn't find evidence it was him.

Speaker 6 (09:23):
Well, a lot of people are saying that he wiped
out all of his laptops and all the evidence that
could possibly be Papa Roger. And that's why people are saying, well,
they just didn't find it because he deleted everything.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
Right, and that matter, and that would only matter if
he was Papa Roger. Yeah, I mean think about it.
You can't if if Papa Roger was Joe blow In in,
what is that Carmel, Indiana? Some people will get that
reference some guy. You know what. I think he's basically

(09:56):
a middle aged true crimer in somewhere in the Midwest.
And but say if he say he was say Carmel,
say he was in he was just a guy named
Joe and Carmel, Indiana. The cops, what is what do
Coburger's devices being wiped half to do with that? Coburger
can't wipe Joe's devices, So what well the police would

(10:19):
have done would have gone to Meta and Facebook and said,
we have this Papa Rodgers account, can you tell us
what the IP address and email is associated with? And
Facebook says, oh, it's Joe and Carmel, Indiana. So they
or whatever they say, Joe Joe Smith at Google at
gmail dot com. So they look up Joe Smith at
gmail dot com, find out it's owned by Joe Smith

(10:41):
and Carmel Indiana. They now know who Papa Roger is.
So how does that have anything to do with Coburger
wiping his devices?

Speaker 5 (10:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (10:49):
So so what you're saying, though, is is that it
is not Brian Coburger.

Speaker 5 (10:52):
That was Papa Roger.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
Absolutely not, because I mean they told us that. I mean,
so you can say, Okay, well, I don't believe the police.
I feel like they quote unquote lied about other things.
I don't believe really that either. I think there's some
things that they didn't want us to know fairly about
the investigation. But they said it's not him. Yeah, so

(11:15):
it's not him.

Speaker 4 (11:16):
Now with the police thing, what is your thoughts to
on when the murders first happened, the police came out
in press conferences and they said, hey, there is no
threat to the public whatsoever.

Speaker 6 (11:25):
It's although targeted.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
Yeah, although it sounds like they had no idea at
that time who the murderer was. Have you thought about
that as the group talked about that before.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
Oh yeah, yeah. And first of all, I don't believe
they ever said there is no threat to the community whatsoever.
I don't believe that's the way they put it. I
think that's the way people interpreted it and took it.
They didn't believe there was an immediate threat, like there
is somebody on a rampage, like they wouldn't be going
through a mall or something. You know that there's an

(11:55):
immediate threat and he's on the run, and we have
to because they felt that this host and somebody in
the house was targeted, and they didn't get any other
reports of any other houses being hit. There was people
in the house who survived, so they clearly weren't the target.
So it just reads from a law enforcement perspective of
there's some specific people they were trying to get in

(12:16):
this specific house, because if they just were just targeting
everybody in the house, the other two girls wouldn't have survived,
you would think, And so that means it's that those people,
which if it was those people, that means it was
that house. We don't have any other reports of any
other houses having stabbings or anything like this, so it
seems isolated. To this location, so it doesn't seem like

(12:38):
there's a threat to the greater an ongoing, immediate, you know,
shelter in place type threat. And I think being not
very experienced with this kind of stuff, they just went
about saying it all the wrong way. That's my personal opinion.
I don't think they ever came out and said, oh,
you're all safe, don't worry about it, you know, because
they try to come out and say and people called

(13:01):
it backtracking. I think that's a very negative way to
look at To me, they were trying to clarify that
we're not saying that it's not a bad thing, but
there's a guy out there who killed people. Obviously it is. Well,
we're just as saying we don't believe that he's out
there just targeting anybody who just was walking down the
street or whatever.

Speaker 6 (13:19):
But they did say the village and you know, if
you're out there on the streets, make sure you're with
their friend, you show precaution in where you are on
campus at this time because we don't have a suspect,
so we're looking for him, but at this time, we
do feel like it was a targeted event exactly.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
I mean that to me, that just said to me
that we feel that that they felt that that was
that house was the target. You know, like if you
have a domestic dispute, they'll come out and say, well,
you know, we think it was a domestic dispute, and
he's this good person is not out and about or
that that guy who was that Travis I can't think
of his last name, who sadly, you know, horribly killed
his chill ldren. You know, he wasn't targeting random people

(14:05):
in the park, do you know what I mean? So
they kind of knew that this is what that was
a targeted thing as well. So it was to me
that's where they're coming from. People I guess who are
a little more cynical were like, oh, they're backtracking, they're
you know, they're I'm not saying they didn't make a
huge mistake. And how they presented it. They should have said,
we don't think it's you know, we think that this

(14:26):
was but because he couldn't give answers of who was
targeted or any of that kind of stuff, right, But
to me just made it's just common sense that they
didn't have everybody killed in the house, right, and nobody's
being killed anywhere else. It just it seems like if
somebody targeted that house and they're not on a rampage
through the city doing random stabbings that you know, they

(14:46):
just happened in that walmart the other day.

Speaker 6 (14:48):
Well, it's just interesting to me because in the very
beginning of the investigation, it sounded like, you know, Kaylee
had told her parents that she felt like she has
been she was being watched, and this is even in
the documents. When she was walking Murphy outside, she felt
like there's somebody out there, And that goes along with
the lines of maybe somebody was targeting her in the beginning,

(15:11):
but later we find out that maybe Maddie was the
main target. What is your take on that.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
I would not be surprised if he was lurking around
the house at all. I have no clue whether it
was Maddie or Kaylee's. The longest time, I thought it
was Maddie and Zana because I couldn't figure out why
he would have gone to her room. You know, why
would he go to her room. There's just if coming
down at the bottom of the stairs, he just needed
to turn left and to get out of the kitchen.

(15:39):
Why did he go all the way across the house
and down the hallway, you know, so I didn't understand
that obviously. Now the police's theory is that she started
to go upstairs, and it sounds like Dylan did hear
sounds to that effect that somebody she thought it was
Kelly who went upstairs, which made no sense because she
thought she heard Kelly dancing with the dog too. It's
very I mean, that poor kid was just so mixed
up that Dylan was just so except that night, you know,

(16:00):
I mean between being exhausted and intoxicated and just scared
and freaked out and not knowing what was going on.
She didn't even she thought she was imagining it. Half
the time. She wasn't sure what was real, you know,
so it's hard to know with hindsight's twenty twenty. So
all the stuff, the stories that Kaylee told, I'm saying

(16:22):
I don't mean, I don't mean false stories. I just
mean that she told stories about all this guy was
followed me from the store and I saw a shadow outside,
and and you know, she told these stuff that was happening.
Dylan said she came home one day and the door
was open. Yeah, so you know, Kayley wasn't even there,
so that so maybe the guy just happened to be
out in the house and make Kaylee saw it because

(16:45):
she was the one with the dog to go outside.
It could easily have been Maddie who let the dog
out because they kind of shared that duty. So that
doesn't really tell me that she was that Kelly herself
was being the.

Speaker 6 (16:55):
Target the target.

Speaker 5 (16:57):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, and there's so many things too.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
I mean, even when you hear that where she's saying, hey,
I feel like I'm being watched.

Speaker 5 (17:05):
I feel like that someone's following me.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
And oftentimes, I mean, this stuff can amount to something big,
which it seems like maybe it did in this case.
And even as we talked about we talked about our
podcasts earlier, all the episodes where we're talking about the
animal killings before the IDEO murders, like the dog that
was found skinned in pil Ai. That was on October
twenty first, so it was about three weeks before the

(17:27):
actual murders, and that was in the rural area of
Leaytau County, and so it was a twelve year old
miniature Australian Shepherd named Buddy, and the dog was found
skinned head to Tael with the fur and meat removed
like there were filey in a fish. There was no
blood to the scene and the animal was not eaten.
The owner of Pam and Jim Colbert. The owners told
the media that they had no enemies and were shocked

(17:47):
by the cruelty. Leaytak County Sheriff's Office confirmed instance, saying
the attack appeared to be intentional. They did not publicly
link it to the IDO student murders, but acknowledge it
was very disturbing. And then you also had multiple cats
or mutilated or missing from October to early November of
twenty twenty two. Have any of you guys talked about
any of that, because that seems very disturbing and very

(18:08):
random and very weird.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yeah. I hadn't heard about the cats, but I kind
of dismissed most of that anyhow. As far as the dog,
I remember them coming out and saying at one point
that it was not related in one of the statements
they issued during the course of the investigation before they
were investigating Coburger. At this point, I would feel that

(18:36):
Colberger might have done that stuff back in Pennsylvania when
he was younger, but I think he's past that point.
I think he had gone to the next step. I
don't think within a month ahead of time he was
wasting his time with a random dog out in the
middle of nowhere, you know, I mean, he was not
familiar with the area. He hadn't moved there since he

(18:56):
moved there in the middle of June, So I don't
in all honesty, it sounds like they might have a
very disturbed teenager somewhere around that area that they should
probably be keeping an eye on. But I do not
think it would have been Colberger's. He was already moved
on to the next stage of his evolution. I believe
as a budding serial killer. I believe wholeheartedly he would

(19:18):
have gone on to do it again if he hadn't
gotten caught.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
Yeah, yeah, I disagree with that, but I think you know,
I mean, I'm not saying that, you know, you're wrong.
I'm just saying that very weird in some random company
letal you know, Idaho, that you know, three weeks before
there's a dog skin filate and put back on the
property of someone's house, just weird, and especially considering the
fullying of that, which means it's obviously a knife that

(19:45):
did this, and then the knife that led into the murders.
Maybe maybe we'll know, maybe Brian Coberger eventually speaks. Now
to that theory, do you think Brian Coberger will ever speak, Like,
do you think that he's going to have a book
deal or any of this stuff? And I know that
you can't technically profit once you're in prison, I guess,
But do you think that he's going to eventually talk

(20:07):
about the motive and why he did it or any
of that.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
I think you will.

Speaker 5 (20:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
I think he is going to be one of those
that just likes to brag about it, and he is
probably chomping at the bit. I mean, I'm I was
actually kind of surprised that he didn't say anything at
the sentencing, But then when he did say what he
said about I respectfully decline and was like, okay, yeah,
that that fits too. Yeah, so I was not I

(20:35):
can't say I was surprised either way, but I just
feel like a lot of the people, I believe he's
a psychopath. I believe he's a narcissist, And I don't
know if I buy the whole in cell thing and
thinking that guy is his that Rogers guy, Elliott Rodgers'

(20:55):
hero and stuff. I mean, there's not really They found
a lot of stuff about Ted Bundy, but not about
Elliott Rogers. So I don't say. I don't know if
I buy that yet. I'm not dismissing it, but I
do feel that he had rage against women and that
was clear. I do believe that he that even if
he didn't do any kind of assault that you know

(21:20):
what I mean, I don't know, yeah, sexual assault that
he didn't do that. I believe that there was a
component to it, sort of like with bt K, where
he did all that he didn't actually sexually assault anybody,
but it definitely all went back to that he went
home with his trophies and that's when the sexual part

(21:42):
kicked it. And I think I don't see just that
I hate women thing out of this. I really don't.
I feel like.

Speaker 6 (21:49):
That reminds me Her and I know we didn't talk
about this earlier, but I want to ask you. There
was a post portion I think I don't know what
show it was on, but that they had found other
student IDs in his closet that were women's IDs. Was
there anything about that in the files?

Speaker 3 (22:07):
No, No, he there were they found IDs. But anybody
who's saying who the ideas belonged to, if they say
it's a student or they know who it belongs to,
that's not true. That there's it's never been disclosed. It
just says IDs in the in the in the initial
documents that we got after the arrest with the search

(22:29):
for it said IDs in a glove in a box,
I believe, right, and then our ID cards And then
in the documents, I did see IDs and it did
not say student IDs. It did not say it was
Colberger's IDs. It did not say it did not say
whose ideas it was. So anybody making that claim that

(22:51):
that's just not true.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
Okay, all right, So, and I want to go ahead
and say this before we get into kind of some
of the details. We're not going to go crazy into
all of the extensive graphic stuff, but we will kind
of talk about what some of the reports say at least.
And so I want to let everybody know, if you
have kids or any of that stuff, they don't want
to hear this stuff, please turn them away now, you know,

(23:14):
even though we're not going to get crazy graphic, just
talking about stabbings and all that can be upsetting obviously
to even adults. But I want to go into the
timeline of the night of November thirteenth, twenty twenty two,
which in that year, November thirteenth is my birthday. So
this happened on my birthday, and so when we first
heard about this, it was my birthday night.

Speaker 5 (23:33):
I think we heard about it probably the.

Speaker 6 (23:35):
Next day, Yeah, it's the next morning, next morning.

Speaker 4 (23:37):
Yeah, we had done some podcasts in a day's preceding
that as we kind of started finding out more information.
But you know, obviously this happened between they're saying four
and four to twenty five am. There is phone and
app data that shows Zaner Kernodle active on TikTok at
four twelve with a DoorDash delivery.

Speaker 5 (23:55):
On four am.

Speaker 4 (23:57):
Surviving roommate Dylan Mortison heard commotion, crying, and melvoice saying
I'm going to help you. She then saw a masked
man walk past or before he fled out the sliding
glass door. She froze and only later locked herself in
the room. Now, I want to start here before we
get into the details of what some of the Unseld
documents say as far as Dylan and the surviving roommates.

(24:20):
You know, she sees this commotion or hears this commotion.
I'm here to help you, you know, as four am
somewhere around this time, and she obviously we know now
they did not call nine one until at eleven am
the next morning, so some eight hours later.

Speaker 5 (24:37):
Why do you think.

Speaker 4 (24:38):
Brian Coberger chose not to kill the surviving roommates, which
were two surviving roommates and he did end up killing Ford.
Do you think that was because he was just exhausted.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Her?

Speaker 5 (24:50):
Yeah? Or did he see her? But I think he
did because it sounded like, I mean.

Speaker 6 (24:53):
Yeah, it sounded like they're like face to face.

Speaker 5 (24:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
And Christen, you can confirm or deny or whatever. But
do you think Brian co Or saw Dylan or or
the other?

Speaker 6 (25:03):
So the other she loved me, yeah, Bethany, but she
looked out her door three times, you know, trying to
figure out what was going on out there. And you know,
when you look at the text between Bethany and Dylan,
Bethany saying, oh, well, yeah, Zana was in all black.
She's like Dylan was like, oh no, this person has

(25:24):
a mask on. This is not Zana. This is somebody
else like there's something very wrong going on right now.

Speaker 4 (25:31):
Yeah, why it's freaked out. Why do you think Brian
maybe spared those two?

Speaker 3 (25:38):
I don't think he knew that Bethany was downstairs. I
do believe his his for lack of a better word,
target was on the third floor, because he clearly walked
in the back door and went straight upstairs. Based on
the time the timeline, A lot of people think he
was in there like fifteen minutes because of or even
twenty minutes because wait for four because in the earlier

(26:01):
documents in the in the probable cause affidavit, it said
that his car was seen at four oh four and
then sped away at four twenty. The thing is is
that if you read the more detailed documents, he did
not park until close to four oh eight, and so
really he got in there just some weretime somewhere around
four oh eight, four oh nine, no sooner than four

(26:22):
oh eight, And Dylan was already talking to Bethany on
the phone at four nineteen and seven seconds. I want
to say it was so and she called it and
talked to her after she saw him leave. And we
know that the commotion on the neighbor's camera was heard
at four seventeen, So sometime between four seventeen and four

(26:42):
nineteen is when he left, got to his car and
it sped off and then was seen by the neighbor's
camera at four twenty. So really he was in there
about eight to nine minutes if you think about it, And.

Speaker 6 (26:51):
That's just crazy because you imagine eight to nine minutes
and you kill four people.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, but I mean if you think about it too,
I mean, I'm I am in Wisconsin and we had
the Apple River stabbings recently and he stabbed I think
four or five people, did some boweling excuse me, sorry,
graphic one of them and killing another one in less
than a minute. So I mean, if you think about it,

(27:17):
you could it takes one second to stab somebody, which
means it takes fifty seconds to stab somebody fifty times.
They had about he had on average about two zero
point two five minutes with each person, So think about
how much time that is. Yeah, and then you figure
in it, you know, so a little bit more with one.

(27:38):
I mean I think Maddy was you know, poor girl
was never believe had much of a chance to wake up.
She had one slash on her arm and I believed
something across her face, but otherwise I think she she
was gone very quickly, and then there was a longer fight,
a longer fight with Kaylee. We know that Colberger was
not downstairs before four to twelve because Xanna was on

(28:00):
the phone on the watching TikTok and then the commotion started,
So sometime between four twelve and four seventeen is when
he ended up in Xana's room. I also don't think
he was in there very long. My guess is he
after the fight with Kaylee, listened to see if anybody
was coming or heard anything, and that's when Xana started

(28:21):
to come up, and that's when he went down and
started Chaser, which I think is going to be closer
to that four seventeen point because I think if the
fight with Xanna had been super long, Ethan would have
woken up, and by all the indications, he didn't even
have a chance to get out of bed. So he
may have woken up enough to sort of turn and
try to escape the attack for a second, but he

(28:44):
was so mortally wounded with his neck and everything. So
and then also just everybody knows that report from the
Dateline episode that there's indication that he sat down in
Zana's chair, which I thought hysterically. It was hysterical. Everybody
was saying, oh, he left a bloody butt print, and like,
why is everybody thinking he had blood on his rear end?

(29:06):
It was probably arm prints and handprints on the arms
of the chair, not on the feet. I don't know
why everybody immediately went to butt print. But Bill Thompson,
I think it was an interview, said that's that's not true.
There was no imprint left on the chair. There was
no indication that he sat in the chair, so he
didn't sit for long, right, So I think I don't

(29:26):
know if he was really all that tired the way
they say, obviously it's going to be somewhat tired. Yeah,
have you also have the visual snow thing. And then
as you're walking through the part of the house and
coming from Xana's room and going through the living room
and to that center hallway right to the right of

(29:46):
the doorway into the hallway, is that good vibe sign?

Speaker 6 (29:49):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (29:50):
So now you've got a bright sign right to your
right and right in front of you is a dark
hallway with no windows. Also have a step down right there. Okay,
and there was porch lights on on the porch out
on the patio outside the kitchen, okay, which was shining

(30:11):
light into would have sh shine light into the kitchen right.
So as he's coming through that living room into that
center hallway, he has to his eyes likely darted to
his right towards that kitchen, that light coming through the kitchen,
and he was partially I don't want to say blinded,
but the light from the Good Vibe sign, his eyes

(30:34):
wouldn't have had a chance to really adjust to see
into that dark hallway. Which if you watch the TikTok
from Zana and Kaylee and everybody that are pretending to
be the other roommates, Zanda walks through from the kitchen
in that hallway into the living room and steps up.
It takes her about three steps. So Coburger would have

(30:54):
gotten through that hall at about two steps, if even
like in less than a second. So think of this.
You've got the light from the Good Vibe sign, you've
got snow visual snow, you've got to look down to
watch for that step, and you're looking to your right
because your escape is that light into the in the
kitchen area. You're not looking to your left where somebody's

(31:15):
cracked open the door and is looking at you. Yeah,
in the most shaded corner. So no, I don't think
he saw her. All that to say, no, I don't
think he saw her.

Speaker 4 (31:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (31:23):
No, And to your point, A Green, I don't think
he's our either.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (31:25):
And to your point to this, and I want to
let everybody know to I mean, there's going to be
a lot of people that know this case, you know,
like the back of their hand. But when you look
at this house, King Roadhouse, you know, from a law
enforcement enforcement perspective, like if you were a swat team
or whoever that was going to go in and you
were going to hit this house for whatever reason, this

(31:47):
is a tactical nightmare house. And there's reasons for this
because this house is oddly laid out.

Speaker 5 (31:54):
I mean it is a split level house.

Speaker 4 (31:56):
You have a bottom basement type floor or a split
level type floor. You also have a first floor, and
then you have a third floor which was added on later.
It used to be that they actually added on that
top floor at a later date, so it used to
actually only be the ground level floor, which is technically
where I guess the top yeah, yeah, yes, And then

(32:16):
you had the split level where now was. But that
also leads to the question of did and was Brian
Koberger spying and looking into this house previous to the attacks,
because you know, someone that kind of walks through goes
into this house seems to be targeting one person, and
I want to get to that in a second. Who

(32:37):
do we think that he was targeting? For people that
don't know what, at least what people believe.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
Kristen, I would say it's probably people's opinions that I
see online. I would say it's what is it at now,
maybe sixty forty for Maddie being the person and forty
to Kayley. It used to be the other way around.
It used to be because you know, mister Gonzalvez was

(33:05):
talking so much about Kaylee's wounds and everything that I
think a lot of people felt that it was Kaylee
because she had she had her attack was so much
more vicious, and that other people were like, well, she
could have woken up during Mattie's attack and then had
a chance to fight, which would also explain the added
wounds which hers were just so much more severe than
I ever even I wouldn't have even thought it just

(33:28):
it's horrible, but I would say more people because of
what law enforcement has said that they believed that Maddie
was the target. And it does make sense. I mean,
both Maddie and Kaylee's rooms were on the backside. Windows
were on the backside of the house. Kaylee had a
small one on the third floor that faced the front,

(33:49):
but I don't think you'd get a very good view
in that, and her her sliding doors were sort of
pointed southwest. And then Mattie's window was right next to
that driveway. There was no windows on the sides of
the house, but hers was faced the back pink and
it was yeah yeah, and I was going to get
yeah say. And in her window there was her signature

(34:12):
pink cowbway boots were sitting there and one of those
decorative M cut out m things that said M that
was also pink. And so it's pretty clear. And you know,
some people have told stories and I you know, I
this is this is uh nothing in the official documents,
but have said that she didn't really close her windows,

(34:33):
her lines or anything, so you could see in very
easily if you were back in that back parking lot.

Speaker 6 (34:40):
And we got to remember too that Kaylee had actually
moved out of the house prior to this murder or
this you know, these four murders. She was not even
living there and the only reason she was up there
that weekend was to show Maddie her new car and
to go celebrate and go to the football games or
whatever they were going to do, and go to the
you know, the bar, and just have fun with her friends.

(35:02):
But she had already moved out of the house, which
leads me to believe that was more Maddie and not Kelly.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
Okay, I have to correct down that one. Maddie was
or Kelly was actually not moved out of the house yet.
She was. She had been staying at her parents occasionally,
but and she has started packing up her things. But
her bed was still in there, her desk was still
in there.

Speaker 6 (35:26):
I mean because yeah, her bed was unmade that night.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
It was it was the blankets. Yeah, but her bed
was there and the blank But she wasn't moved out.
She was there a lot. She hadn't been there as
much from my understanding, but there really wasn't any She
hadn't fully moved out. There was her desk, was there,
her the the dog kennel was there, her bed and
her limbs were there, so so she wasn't what most
people would be considered moved out. She had been staying

(35:53):
more from my understanding, she'd been saying more Mortar parents.
But I don't think unless you were in her social circles,
you would have any There was no external indication that
she was not planning on being there much longer put
it that way, So he really wouldn't have known, right,
So that's why that's why you can't really say that

(36:14):
that's why he was. There's just no way he would
have known that. I don't think because I don't think
she made any announcements on social media or anything saying
I've moved out or you know, so nobody really knew
that except for her very inner circle, that she was
planning I'm going to Texas. So I think I don't know.
It's hard for me. I I'm leaning towards Maddie. I guess.

(36:35):
You know, it's a big mystery as to you know,
with the dog, because when the documents tell us that
the when the officer got there, that Kaylee's door was open,
You're going to see a lot of people saying, but
it was closed and he had opened the door. No indication.
The officer Smith and Nuna's boll say the door was open.

(36:55):
And who is a Gunderston. I don't have his name
off the top of my head. But the other guy, who, yeah,
that's it, there was I think it was his document,
his statement where he says he got there and he
saw the dog on the bed and he instructed I
want to say, there nown az Or Smith to close
the door so the dog would not get in the way. Yeah, yeah,

(37:18):
and get and get in in the way. So the
door was open. There was a kennel in her room
that was in I noticed that in the documents. That
was in the inventory list or the evidence lists. So
she did have a kenne because some people claim she
had a kennel, but I hadn't seen any proof of that.
Now I have seen proof that there was a kennel
in there. I don't know why he wasn't Murphy wasn't

(37:39):
in the kennel. Who knows, But by that point he
was on the bed, we know. But when the officer
got there, so then they closed the door and then
the I don't know if I was Gunderson, it was
the other one. There's just another one whose name is
is not coming to here right now. Then after everything
was done, he came back in and Murphy. He found
Murphy under Kelly desks, and so he picked him up

(38:03):
and he said there was no observable injuries or he
just he said injuries are staining. Okay, to be very specific,
he didn't say blood, which he found surprising. Would have
found you know, he would found it hard to believe
that that would be the case if he had contaminated
the scene, if he had been in any of those rooms.

(38:24):
So I can't really get on board but that being
conclusive that Murphy didn't have anything on him, because eight
hours had passed and he could have gotten a little
bit on his paws that flaked off. He could have
I mean, he didn't leave prints anywhere, but just because
something wasn't readily observable. And from what I can tell,

(38:45):
they did no photography, no photographs. I think they even
said no photographs were taken, but you could see him
on the body camp body cam and that no swabs
were taken or anything. So he was never really tested.
So not that it meant MA, that's just one of
those little technical things that my brain decides to like
focus on but they didn't know that, they didn't see,

(39:07):
they didn't know anything that in the crime scene to
indicate that Murphy had been walking through it. But they
really can't say for sure. I don't think that I
don't think that's conclusive to say why didn't observe anything
on him eight hours after this? So you know, I
can't really say that.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
So and I do want to say too, like there's
a lot of people and we've had, you know, being
in law, have been in law enforcem in the past
and all that stuff. A lot of the guys that
have had to deal with this crime scene. I want
to point this out because you know, we have law
enforcement on the podcast quite a bit, and whenever the
the toll that this scene that they had to deal

(39:44):
with is going to take on them for the rest
of our lives, they're never going to get over this,
I mean, without question. And that's something that you know,
we do want to say because it's like everybody always
speculates and says stuff about you know, hey, did these
guys do the right job, or did they do it correctly,
or did they investigate it right or did they say
the right things in the press conference, but you know,
you actually have to have people that have to deal

(40:05):
with this and this, you know, brutal murder, and especially
young young kids that are in college. I just want
to point it out, you know, as you're talking about
you know, some of the officers that we're talking about
this and that, and and just imagine what kind of
they're going through in their heads as they're trying to
document and write down stuff and figure all this out
with this brutal scene. But I do want to get

(40:27):
up to some of the files Xana Kernodle. We know
that she was active on TikTok at four to twelve am,
so we know that the murders happen what they say
between four and four to twenty five am. If you
go to the first documents whereas talks about Xena, where
she suffered over fifty stab wounds, many defensive, including major
strikes at the heart and lung. The struggle in her

(40:49):
room was considered prolonged and violent, So that kind of
makes sense, right if you ordered door dash at what
was at four to twelve am, and they believe that no, no,
no no.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
The door dash arrived at about three fifty nine.

Speaker 5 (41:04):
Three fifty nine, okay, yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
It was delivered at about three fifty nine four o'clock,
so right, approximately four o'clock. Based on some of the
audio from the Linda Lane video, it sounds like the
DoorDash driver got out of her cart three fifty nine
and some seconds and left a little bit around four
and then in the documents it says was delivered delivered
approximately four o'clock. Was her food is when that was delivered?

Speaker 4 (41:27):
Yeah, okay, so yeah, yeah, yeah, but she was active
on TikTok at four twelve okay, so that's where yeah,
four twelve, yeah, four twelve am and then delivered at
four am. And then obviously if you're saying that the
murders happened from four to four to twenty five and
then documents and Zana had fifty stab wounds, you know,
heart and long, and they seemed like it was prolonged.
Obviously Zana encountered Brian Coberger and it seemed like she

(41:49):
was awake and she likely had a fight on her hands.
Is that the consensus of what you guys have taken
from these documents.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
I think that's what a lot of people believe. Yeah,
I mean and that's obviously what the police believe as well.
They I've seen some people saying that, and I have
not seen this in the documents, that there was something
in the documents saying that Xena her apple phone showed
that her iPhone showed that she had changed levels, and
that there was blood in the hallway upstairs. I have

(42:18):
not seen that anywhere that talking about her. And then
I've also seen that she was wearing her Apple Watch.
I have not seen that. I didn't have a chance
to go through all of the the uh, the evidence
that was logged in, but there was an Apple Watch
for Kaylee because mister Gonsolvis found the Apple Watch in

(42:41):
a box of belongings that were returned to the family,
which if Kaylee had been wearing hers, it would be
in an evidence locker because it would be on that
list of things that were taken from her from her body.
I did not I have to go back and look
at it again. I was just looking at that one too,
about listing the stuff that was with Zena when they
took when they took it up. But realistically between between

(43:04):
four he wouldn't have been down there before four twelve,
and he was out and then the noise from the
neighbor's house started at four seventeen and he was out
of the house. He had already passed Dylan by four nineteen,
So between four twelve and four nineteen, so that's seven minutes.
And we don't know how far how long after four

(43:25):
to twelve he was in there. But if you think
about it, I remember what I said about fifty seconds
for fifty stab ones. Yeah, even if he was only
in there from four sixteen to four eighteen, that's an
eternity if you just stop and don't do anything for
two straight minutes and think about what could be happening
though two minutes.

Speaker 5 (43:46):
And so Zena so so Zana.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
Just for everyone that is, you know, listening to the podcast,
they don't know about this. Zana was Ethan's girlfriend, correct, correct? Okay,
so Zana was up but in a roommate.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
She lived there. Ethan did not live there, had.

Speaker 4 (44:00):
Not lived there, but he stayed there a lot. Right, Yeah,
So where was Zena? Do we think or do we know?
I guess from the files? Where was Zena? Found?

Speaker 3 (44:10):
In her bedroom? She was on the floor. Okay. When
you when you come up through the front door and
you turn your left and you go up the stairs,
and that puts you in the living room. And then
you turn to your right and you go back along.
There's like a half wall that kind of keeps you
from falling into the stairwell. And then you keep walking
down and then on your left is a bathroom and

(44:31):
straight ahead of you in the hallway is Zana's bedroom
door and her door well. When when Hunter Johnson, the
friend got there, he said the door was partially open,
and when the by the and then he went in,
so the door was fully open by the time the
police came. And so as the police were walking down
that hallway, they could see Zana from where they were

(44:53):
standing out in the hallway or living room, and she
was her from I understanding, she was face up and
her feet were pointed towards the door. She was right
in front of the door, basically on the floor on
her back, looking at the ceiling, with her head on
the opposite side and her feet like pointed at the door.

(45:15):
And then Ethan was to the as you were looking
at the door, to the left, you go around the
corner where her bed was. The head of her bed
I believe was on that west wall. The same wall
that Zana's head was. Point. As you're facing into Zana's room,
you're looking west and so on that west wall, that

(45:36):
far west waller bedroom was also her bed, and Ethan
was there and he his head was not visible. It
was like down between the wall and the bed, which
I think would put it right along that back wall
where later on that picture was taken, that kind of
infamous picture of where the blood was outside.

Speaker 6 (45:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
Yeah, and so to that point too, And that's why
I wanted to talk about Xena. Obviously she is the
girlfriend of Ethan, and as you said, he was found
partly off Xana's bed. A likely attacked will asleep, they think, right, So,
fatal stab wound to his neck, juggler arterier, blood spray
visible on the wall and floor. That's the picture you're
talking about, if anybody's seen the picture of the kind

(46:19):
of blood seeping down through the actual brick out of like.

Speaker 6 (46:22):
Outside the house side of the house.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
Yeah, there were fewer defensive wounds, suggest he was overwhelmed
before waking, But like, how how does this go in
this room?

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Though?

Speaker 5 (46:32):
Right?

Speaker 4 (46:32):
So, if you have Ethan here and you have Xena,
it seems like she fought she was probably awake. From
what we from what we believe, did he attack Xena
first or did he attack Ethan first, because it would
to me, it would seem maybe he would want to
attack the guy first, even if he was passed out,
passed out, he is passed out, but you're going to

(46:53):
attack the girl. Maybe he wouldn't wake up to this, right,
But what is a consensus on that.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
There is no census on that. It's I mean, the
police appear to believe that, you know, Zana had heard
the noises upstairs, just like Dylan did, had started to
go upstairs. I'm not sure that we have heard that,
you know, in one of in one of Dylan's statements
are all over the place, and I don't And that's

(47:20):
to be understanding, totally understandable as memories came back and
things like that. But one of her first ones to
Officer Nunez on the scene, when he talked to her,
she said that she heard Keaylle scream. Calle's screaming announced
that there was somebody inside the residence and that she

(47:40):
heard Kelly run down from the third floor and basically
in Dizana's room. Well, obviously that makes no sense, why
would Kaylee run into Zana's room? You know, so police
and from the general consensus is is that by that
that it's Zana who said I started maybe started to
walk upstairs and said somebody's here. I don't Cayley probably screamed,

(48:02):
and then Zana came over because she heard the scream too,
and then she was the one who ran down from
the floor from the third floor and ran into her bedroom.
And then Dylan said that in this this is the
very first time. This is like the and I don't
even know she might still have been not fully recovered
from you know, the night before, the drinking and stuff

(48:24):
like that at this point, you know, she didn't get
very much sleep, but she says that so she locked
herself in her bedroom and then she continued to hear commotion.
She event she said, eventually she stopped hearing a struggle
and heard a male voice say, and this is very
different from what we heard originally, you're gonna be fine. Yeah,
I'm gonna help you, instead of it's okay, you're gonna

(48:46):
be fine. And she did not recognize the male's voice,
and she said it was not said in a nice way, basically,
and so Okay, So why at what point people are like,
why would you say that? You know, it's like maybe
that was Ethan saying and it's like, no, no, it
was definitely him, because Dylan would have recognized Ethan's voice,
I'm sure. And and so what could have happened? Well,

(49:07):
first of all, like people pointed out, Ethan was probably
just as drunk as everybody else. You know, they've been
partying all night, you know, doing what college kids do, right,
and and so he may have. And this is one
reason why I think that the fight with Zana, even
though it was fierce and there was a lot happening,
that a lot of damage can be done when if

(49:28):
you watch again, if you watch the video from the
Apple River stabbings, a lot of damage can be done
in an extremely short time. I don't. I think people
don't understand that. They can't. They think like and it
had he had to be in there an hour to
do that kind of No, he just didn't. I mean again,
look at the guy at Walmart just recently, you know,
and uh, where was that Michigan? And and so you

(49:52):
look at that, so that fight was Zana. You know,
the noise that you heard, like the sort of this
kind of could be a screen and then the loud
thud and the voices and stuff. I mean, it could
have happened so fast that what could have happened as
Zena was on the ground like he he attacked her

(50:12):
it first and then saw that Ethan was starting to
move or whatever and went over and attacked him, which
could be if Ethan could have been sleeping on his
stomach and he stabbed his legs first. I mean, there
was so many crazy There was rumors that, you know,
his legs were cut all the way up to the
growin and all of a sudden kind of stuff. But
none of that is there. I did not see anything

(50:33):
in the new documents that said anything other than there
was blood on his leg or there were cuts to
his leg. I didn't see anything besides that, like what's
been in the news report. But he could have I
just in the heath the moment, I don't see Colberger,
after already having attacked three people, having them wherewith all

(50:54):
the mindset to go, oh, I should go for his achilles.
He I just don't think he did that. I think
he probably got him in the neck whatever, in the legs.
Maybe Ethan was kicking who knows, and that's when he
turned and once he saw that Ethan was incapacitated, he
turned back to Zana and said you're gonna be fine.
I'm gonna help you, and then just went back and
attacked her again. Yeah, that kind of makes sense to me,

(51:17):
I don't think, because I think if there had been
a real long fight before Ethan woke up, how did
he get you know, I just Ethan just didn't have
a chance to wake up. That tells me that what
happened with Zana was quick, and then it may be
more of a fight afterwards.

Speaker 4 (51:30):
Yeah, And to your point, I mean, there's been so
many people that I mean, I've seen videos on social media,
and you know, for people that don't understand like how
brutal stab wounds can be, you have to understand a
couple of things. Number One, law enforcement, for example, they
have bulletproof fest they're still working on technology for stab
proof est it is now.

Speaker 5 (51:51):
I mean, it is not easy.

Speaker 4 (51:53):
To create a vest that is stab proof, and so
so when law enforcement encounters people with knives, they in
often cases will take that, if not more serious in
some cases than they do weapons or guns or whatever.
I mean it's it's all equal the same. It's because
that can kill you very fast. You hit the wrong

(52:13):
artery or the or I guess, the right artery. If
you're the attacker, that that gets you incapacitated very quick.
And especially with juggler veins stuff like this, as soon
as you hit a vein where you're leaking blood pretty
quickly and it's not getting too graphic, but you start
having a head rush, just like you would feel like
you're going to pass out or any of these things.
So you're not going to be in the right mindset

(52:35):
to be able to fend off attacks, especially if you're asleep,
you're drunk. And then also keep it in mind, when
you are drinking alcohol, your blood is much thinner.

Speaker 5 (52:42):
You're going to bleed a lot faster.

Speaker 4 (52:45):
It's just it was the it was the worst case
scenario for the victims and the best case scenario for
the attacker.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
And I and I feel not tinner. I'm sorry to interrupt,
but I just want to say this. I know it
seems so weird to be talking as kind of like
more and gruesome to be talking about these things, but
there's been so much speculation, so many questions, like blaming
them somehow and not believing things because of this whole thing.

(53:12):
It can't have been Colberger. He hadn't been. There's no
way he could have been working alone. There's you know,
if you don't know these things, if you don't think
about these things and talk about these things, those sort
of conspiracy type theories, can you know, persist because they
just don't understand the facts. And so they said, well,
there's no way he could have done it all by
himself in fifteen minutes. It's like he had he could

(53:34):
have done it all by himself in five minutes. I
don't understand why people, but because people just don't understand
that the type of damage this can do. And yeah,
it's I think it's important to know that or that fact.

Speaker 6 (53:48):
And you think about the adrenaline he was going through
at the time. You are like outside your own body
when you're doing these kind of things.

Speaker 5 (53:55):
Yeah, obviously he was.

Speaker 4 (53:56):
Yeah, I mean and when you're when you're doing this, Yeah,
you're going to have you're going to have this extra
human strength. You're doing something you've never done before, and
it is the most crazy psycho thing you've ever done.
But this is what potentially fueled Brian Coburger, this was
the one thing that he had been leading up to. Maybe,
I mean, we don't know, but he didn't just randomly
come up with this one night.

Speaker 5 (54:15):
I don't think. I mean, I think this is very premeditated.
I think it was months in advance.

Speaker 4 (54:19):
But I think even still, no matter how much you
prepare yourself to do some heinous act like this, in
the moment, it is going to be different. You can
prepare yourself no matter what, through extensive amounts of training
or thought processes, whether it's fire department, law enforcement, to
prepare yourself for things that you are going to see
or have to interact with. But until you're in the moment,

(54:42):
you don't actually know how your body's going to react.
And likely his body reacted in this mass adrenaline rush,
and you know that's going to give him this extra
human strength in some degree, and we don't even know.
I don't know have they done, by the way, any
drug testing on him, like and obviously they did not
care Jim for you know, a while after, but I
would be curious to know if he was on any

(55:04):
type of drugs during this night.

Speaker 5 (55:07):
That would also be interesting. Is anybody ever speculating.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
That it's been speculated. I did not come across There's
a lot of evidence in there listed as far as
swabs and blood drawns and stuff like that, but they're
not They don't specify whose it was when they did it,
so I can't say, oh, that that's where they drew
blood from him. I mean, we know they took multiple
swabs and stuff from him in Pennsylvania because they wanted

(55:31):
to test his DNA and everything. I would be surprised
if they bothered with the drug test, because I mean
this is now an yeah, weeks and weeks after. But
they may have just because of the heroin problem he
had earlier in life. But he seems as like he

(55:51):
had been cleaned for a long time. So I don't know.
I have not been able to like put myself in
the shoes of the killer like you just did in
that sense. But I see what you're saying. I mean,
it's it's I do think that at the end, I
do not think that Xana and Ethan were expected, and
I think he probably was a little freaked out after that.

(56:11):
I don't think that was his plan at all. I'm
surprised he even chased Xana into another room. I don't
I don't know why he because even if Xannah went upstairs,
and I still so, I'm not one hundred percent convinced
that that's the way it's happened. But I'm I'm not
gonna the cops have seen the evidence that I have
not seen, and there's nothing, but I just and it

(56:34):
does sound like h Dylan heard somebody going up the
stairs and come running back down the stairs. But I just,
I just can't imagine if his goal was somebody on
that third floor and Zana had made it into her
bedroom and he was wearing a mask, the best thing
to do when he hit the bottom of those stairs
would be to turn left and book it out of

(56:54):
those that sliding door. Why take the risk of running,
because now, oh, he's got Because he's ultimately a coward,
that's the way I see him. Because he chose victims
who he knew were going to be extremely vulnerable, even
if they hadn't been drinking. It's the middle of the night,
and he knew he was going to catch them on
in their bed, completely by surprise. And so he's just

(57:17):
an absolute coward. And so he didn't go in there
with bravado, and it's not like somebody who walks into
a Walmart or you know, like with that type of
thing that you know, it's a different kind of crazy.
But you know what I'm saying, the cover of dart
with the most vulnerable next to children, the second most
vulnerable thing he could find, which was a sleeping girl.

(57:38):
And it just seems like, I just it surprises me
that when Xana a surprise. I don't know why I
just said Zana, when Xana surprised him, If that's what happened,
that he just didn't freak out and run, that he
chased her to her room, I mean that to me,
that shows like almost a switch of personality. And I

(57:59):
don't know, maybe he was so blinded with rage in
finding Kaylee in Maddie's room that just in blind rage,
he was just slashing out at everything and that's how
Xanna ended up getting chased instead of him just running. Obviously,
I'm just throwing that out there, but you know what
I mean. And then that blind rage and then by
the time and then Ethan and on top of everything else,

(58:21):
and then so that by the time he's leaving, he's
just I don't think he saw Dylan and said, I'm
just too tired. I think he was probably exhausted, the
adrenalins pounding, he probably had a headache at that point.
I mean, just all the things that happened, and he's like,
now I got to get out of here. The cowardly
ness kicked back in.

Speaker 5 (58:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:41):
So, by the way, so Kaylee and Madison were in
each other's rooms, right that they found made Maddi's room
Maddi's room.

Speaker 5 (58:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:48):
So Kaylee received thirty plus tab wounds, including severe facial
trauma that rendered her nearly unrecognizable, which is kind of graphic.

Speaker 6 (58:55):
And I want to talk about that for just a second, Kristen.
You know, there's a lot of people and even Kaylee's
sister asked, what was the second weapon? Do you think
there was a second weapon?

Speaker 5 (59:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (59:07):
Because and what Sherry's asking here is as this says,
I mean, her face was nearly unrecognizable. Investigators first couldn't
discern injuries due to extensive blood flow, Like why was
you know, the question is why was Kaylee? So besides
the thirty plus stab wounds, but there was obviously also
another faction of this.

Speaker 5 (59:27):
It wasn't just stab wounds.

Speaker 4 (59:28):
It was it was a beating, which is crazy, which
which also like if you think about that, like crime
of passion type, right, But if you would.

Speaker 6 (59:38):
Think Kaylee, like me, you know, she's going to fight
back and probably call him on and tell him you
mother whatever, whatever. And I'm sure she was fighting him.

Speaker 4 (59:48):
And by the way, her sister's testimony or her witness
or impact statement in court.

Speaker 5 (59:53):
On uh you know the on the day of was it.

Speaker 4 (59:56):
Centenceen right, Yeah, so the impact statements, you know, Kaylee's
sisters Marry and she said.

Speaker 6 (01:00:02):
If Kaylee would have been awake, she would have kicked
your motherfucking ass or whatever something like that.

Speaker 5 (01:00:06):
Absolutely, So, so that might lead you to probably you know,
did wake up.

Speaker 6 (01:00:11):
That she was going a fight, But do you think
there was a second weapon.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
First of all, I just props to Olivia and we
love her and she's actually in another group that I'm
in and we just support her all the way and
the family and she just did amazing. She just hit
the ground running when this all happened and helped find
like the the grub truck video and the video on

(01:00:37):
at one one one two King Road.

Speaker 4 (01:00:40):
You know, just just Chris Strong before you answered the
question I ask you, can you can you just say
something about that family, like how much they really went
to bat for their kid and the media and everything,
and listen, there there were at times that you know,
the media or people or against them, they went against
who ever because they were not a part of like hey,

(01:01:01):
we're just going to go along with whatever the prosecutors
are going to do, whatever the court's going to do.
They were fighting for their daughter, the one that was murdered,
which I think is the most commendable thing we've seen
throughout this entire process. And obviously we know, at least
from what most people were saying, that there were some
families that were okay with the plea bargain and there
were other families that were not. But can you just
talk about for a second before you get into, you know,

(01:01:24):
the Kaylee and Madison thing, like about how you know
the family really just I mean, I think Kayley's family.

Speaker 6 (01:01:32):
They were proactive.

Speaker 5 (01:01:33):
Yeah, they were out there probably more than anybody was.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
Well, I mean, I'm going to preface this with that
everybody deals with grief and trauma and death in a
family like this differently, and there's no right way to
do it. A wrong way to do it. And you know,
for example, Ethan's family have started a foundation and they
started the tulip thing and they have they have, I think,

(01:02:01):
as well as all the other families, handled it very
with dignity and grace. And yes they may have decided.
I mean, we don't know what they were talking about
in private, but they put on a very reserved public face.
And you know, Maddie's dad, I mean, it just breaks
my heart to see him every single time because he

(01:02:22):
just he just looks so broken sometimes. Uh. I think
it was Zana's mom. Was Mattie's mom or Zana's mom.
Zana's mom was having a lot of problems and she
has embraced religion and it seems to be really turning
her life around. I mean, they've they've all chosen their

(01:02:42):
ways of honoring their loved one who they lost and
their way of memorializing them. And some people are fighters
and some people are I don't know what you'd say,
that's not even a good analogy. I don't want to
say about it, but you know what I'm saying. So
so the gondsalass, they're angry, they were pissed off, and

(01:03:05):
that's one perfectly valid response to this, and they were
questioning everything, and you know, and I don't know if
they've had experience with law enforcement in the past or not.
I mean, I had one experience myself that I was
involved where I was a victim of a of a

(01:03:26):
robbery homicide and my friend was killed, you know, next
to me, and I didn't know what to do. I had,
you know, I just went along with whatever the police
said and you know, waited to hear and all that
other kind of stuff, cause I didn't know any other way. Well,
having gone through that, now, if something like that ever
happened again, you can bet that I would handle it

(01:03:47):
completely different. I am older, you know, and I'm just
a lot feistier in my old age, I guess, you know,
in middle age. But so so, I don't know if
maybe the Gonsalvasis have had dealing before where they're just like, no, no, no,
we're not going to sit back. We're going to be
you know, kind of in your face about this type
of stuff. And so and they were, and you know,

(01:04:07):
a lot more power to them. That's the way to
do it. But I can't say that's the right way
to do it or the proper way to do it,
because everybody handles their grief and going through that kind
of process completely differently, and you can't say how you're
going to do it until you actually go through it.
I wouldn't be surprised if they surprised themselves sometimes, you know,
like why we really did that, you know, But just

(01:04:29):
the yeah, the gumption of Olivia, I mean, I just
I that girl. I'm was so impressed with her. But
I just hope that she's not holding too much in
that Dad's a lot more vocal about it, and yes,
she let loose on stuff, but it was so calm
and measured the way she did it. I was a

(01:04:50):
little worried about that. I was like, I hope she's
not holding it in too much. I hope she's talking
to somebody and being able to vent and she's not
trying to be strong for everybody, do you know what
I mean? Like, because that can cause you trouble too.
But uh, yeah, they those those sentencing, uh, those those
victim impact statements were just something else, you know. And

(01:05:10):
then by the same token, you know, I think it
was uh Maddie's grandma, Zana's grandma. Yeah, who said to
him yeah, who said I forgive you?

Speaker 6 (01:05:18):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:19):
And so she also got a little dig in there about,
you know, true love. Who was her real true love,
But I think it was Maddie's grandma then, because she
I think it was Jake she said was her true love. Right,
So she got her own little dig in there too,
you know. So everybody handles it differently, but yeah, they
they were psyched to behold and I think that's going
to be something that people will point to for a
long time. And and it was impressive. That's I think

(01:05:42):
that's why people want to be I don't know if
that's I just like I said, I just hope that
she's not. She was just so calm and measured in
the way she did it, and it's very articulate too,
which yeah, it was just amazing. And so I definitely
couldn't have done that. I would have been my voice
would have been quavering. I would have been just a
nervous wreck. So the way she did that, I mean,
it's just the strength, the sheer strengths, sheer force of

(01:06:04):
will you could feel coming through that TV screen, you know.
But I just like I said, it was afterwards, I
thought about it some more and it was just a
little bit. I hope that she's not trying to hold
too much in and to try and you know, be
the strength for everybody else, because she needs to take
care of herself too.

Speaker 6 (01:06:22):
Yeah, And getting back to her statement where she asked, Brian,
what was the second weapon you used on my sister?
Do you think he used a second weapon or do
you think it was the one weapon he had?

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
I believe, I mean without having seen what the actual
and I don't want to see it. I'd rather I mean,
i'd rather get a description of some kind, you know,
but without having somebody said, yeah, you know, this is
exactly what it looks like. Because they said something rounded
and something with some kind of stripes or grooves that
were in a striped pattern were on her. I think

(01:07:02):
mostly her face it looked like and her dad said
it looked like something had been put in her mouth
that left marks on either side of her mouth, like
she was gag and not gay like with a rag gig,
but that something when you put something in somebody's mouth
and they can't scream, that's a gig. It doesn't matter
what it is. And I just find it hard to

(01:07:23):
believe that he walked in there carrying the knife in
a sheath, because I don't think he was wearing it
otherwise the sheath couldn't have been left behind. So he's
carrying this sheath and knife and he was carrying something else.
I just I can't believe that, and it just is
too too much of it. I hate to use the
word coincidence, but I mean, because coincidences do happen. But

(01:07:47):
you have a knife that has a hilt that is rounded,
that has striped grooves in it. Yeah, that if you
shoved it into somebody's mouth side ways would leave striped
grooves on either side of around it. Striped grooves on
either side of her mouth. Now, some people are pointing

(01:08:09):
to interviews where a reporter said, you know, do you
think it was a fist, and he said, no, it
was not. It's definitely not a fist. It was something else.
In the documents, it says it said something about they
had done a comparison because the butt of the knife
apparently had a square it was square shaped, and she
and the emmy does say that she doesn't get specific,

(01:08:33):
but she says there's wounds that are consistent with the
k bar knife okay, some something she did get specific
about with as far as the way the tip of
the knife would have made certain kinds of wounds, but
she didn't get more specific than that. And then in
that interview, the reporter then said, well, do you think

(01:08:53):
it could have been from the knife? Now, he could have.
And again, just like anybody else, cops are human. They're
not used to being in interviews and talking about stuff,
and they've got all these lights and stuff, so they're
not gonna necessarily be thinking quick on their feet. Okay,
and that's because that's her not their job, you know,

(01:09:14):
they're not news personalities. So when she said do you
think it was from a knife, his brain could have
immediately went to the cutting edge of the knife. That
she was not cut on either side of her mouth.
It came from something else. So he said no, and
it just doesn't. But I want to have somebody specifically
ask them do you think it could have come from

(01:09:35):
the hilt of the knife, from being sideways literally be specific,
being sideways in her mouth. Now, other people like, well,
how would you do that? He'd have to hold onto
the knife blade and he would have cut himself. It's
like people can't picture this and here, I guess I
am kind of putting myself in the killer's shoes, but
very simply, you're holding a knife in your hand, but

(01:09:55):
you know, like you're wrapping your fist around it. Now,
turn your fist sideways, like you're punching forward. You're the
blades to the side, and now you've got somebody's Now
you're holding the hilt still. Now somebody's on their back
and you taking you shove your fist towards that person's mouth,
open your hand and use the palm of your hand
or the heel of your hand to shove the hilt

(01:10:17):
sideways across their mouth. You're not touching the blade. That's
how you put it in somebody's mouth. I just I
just can't imagine that he found something that just happened
to look exactly and leave a pattern exactly like the
hilts of a k bar would be that he happened
to find in the room. Or people are like, oh,
maybe it was a flashlight, maybe it was brass knuckles,

(01:10:38):
maybe it was I mean, yeah, and they all had
something that looked exactly like the handle of a k
bar mouth.

Speaker 6 (01:10:47):
His gloves on. So there's no way he could have
a brass knuckle.

Speaker 3 (01:10:50):
Well, okay, good, but good. I mean they make they
make knives that have knuckles. Now, yeah, why do I
think that you know they can office is fairly you
know fair enough are saying, you know, well, why are
they being so cagy about it?

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
Yeah, we know that whatever the second weapon was wasn't
the weapon that gave the the mortal blows, but we
know that something else. They then they admit that there
was something out. Now, there's nothing in the documents that
I can find that that documents this. It's all been
in the interviews and stuff. And I think looking from

(01:11:27):
a law enforcement perspective, they don't have the knife, and
if I was law enforcement, I would want not want
to put out there Oh yeah, I think it was
the knife hilt without having that knife to prove it. Yeah,
and they don't know. I mean, for all they know
it wasn't the knife hilt, you know, it was something

(01:11:47):
else because they don't know that Colberger didn't somehow modify
the knife hilt.

Speaker 6 (01:11:52):
That they don't know that because they don't have true
And that leads me to my next question, where Dylan
said that she felt like he was holding something at
his abdomen with two hands as he left the house.
And then people are been speculating and it looked like
a vacuum or whatever, and people have been speculating what

(01:12:13):
that could be. What do you think with that report?

Speaker 3 (01:12:18):
I'm trying to I'm trying to figure out. I don't
know if if she really saw him holding it with
two hands, because it says in the I'm trying to
find the document now, but it says in the which
one was that that's number forty two. I want to say,

(01:12:38):
let me see if I can pull this down here.
You may have to cut this out later. I'm going
to just too fast. Okay, it's in the second and
on my computer's decided to take forever.

Speaker 5 (01:13:01):
It's okay, Bill Gates. Screw you, Bill Gates.

Speaker 3 (01:13:05):
In this in the second interview that she had, let
me get to it here, hold on, I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:13:11):
Close and by the way, when you're getting to it,
I want to say something too, Like we've said this
on every episode that we've done about the Idahom Earners,
is that if you have a daughter that is in college,
or you are in college yourself that are listening to this,
just understand that, like sometimes when we talk about the
graphic part of this. Just put that in your head.

(01:13:31):
Don't make it, don't make it envelop your life with fear,
but make it give you a sense of defense. Like
because I think I think there's so many of us
that kind of move through life today that feel like
we are invincible, that we feel like that nothing's ever
going to happen to us until it does, and when
it does, it may be too late, you know. And

(01:13:52):
I want people to understand that, like, things happen like this,
not necessarily this bad on this level, but things do
happen this bad to people every single second, almost in America,
and it can happen to you in any given minute.
So the reason I'm saying that is because I feel
like that most people have to acknowledge and understand the

(01:14:15):
world we live in and understand that like, yes, you
should be compassionate and loving to other people, but that
does not mean that you should put your guard down
in any way, shape or form.

Speaker 5 (01:14:25):
And you know, when we go back to the Idaho
house where.

Speaker 4 (01:14:28):
Their college students, this is at almost every single college
campus on the planet, to where there are college party houses,
and yes, and I say party house, yes, they did
live here, but you know oftentimes their door was unlocked
and people kind of came in and out of the house.
You just have to still understand no matter what. Yes,
you're in college. Yes you're having a great time. Back

(01:14:50):
when you know we were in college or whatever, you
didn't necessarily have to think about this as much today
you do because there are crazier people for whatever reason
in this world. And I just you understand, like, have fun,
but also be safe and be smart.

Speaker 6 (01:15:03):
And be you surrounding.

Speaker 5 (01:15:05):
Yes, know your surroundings, be aware.

Speaker 6 (01:15:06):
Simple thing is like locking your doors could have prevented.

Speaker 4 (01:15:09):
This maybe, but he would have probably still found a
way in the house. I mean, even locking your doors.
It's just you almost have to get on some mass
level of paranoia, which we are, I mean we are
for many reasons, but you know, you have to get
on some mass level of paranoia to where it's like
in our in our and wherever we're at, we always

(01:15:29):
have a gun in every room every house, no matter
where we're at any situation, and locking our doors, even
our bedroom doors, to where if someone does break in downstairs,
we have a bedroom door locked where we can hear stuff.
We got a gun near us. That's kind of our mindset.
But I understand college students. They they're living their life,
they are enjoying their life. They feel like that, Hey,

(01:15:50):
I'm going to live forever, and most college students will
live for a very long time until something like this happens.
And I know I'm not trying to scare college ues.
I'm just trying to say that, like, just understand, especially
if you're a pretty girl. You're a pretty girl, there
are dudes that might get pissed off if you reject
them or whatever the case is, and that may lead

(01:16:12):
into something bigger. And I'm not even saying that's necessarily
a case with this, which we could talk about that,
but anyways, Christen, go ahead if you have found what
you found.

Speaker 3 (01:16:22):
I have, I have, Okay, I have. So she says, Okay,
this is the way, the chapter this is. This is
Supplemental forty two. This is document forty two. And she
said she believed he was holding something near his stomach

(01:16:43):
or belt line. Dylan used both hands to point straight
out from her abdomen, and then moved her hands apart
and back together to simulate a bulge. So it's I
think some people are misreading that that he was holding
things with both hands, holding it with both hands, But

(01:17:05):
it doesn't say that it just because she says. Then
she said this area that she was gesturing to was
black in color, and she thought, now maybe it was
a gun. She said the unknown object had an arrow shape.
She seemed really unsure and said she was tired during
the event. So we've seen gun, arrow shape, vacuum part

(01:17:31):
piece of a vacuum. The only person who said container
was Bill Thompson. I have not seen container in a
document yet, so I don't know. So people are like
sharing in the groups and stuff pictures of containers that
you could tall thin evidence containers and stuff. Said maybe
it was Coberger.

Speaker 4 (01:17:48):
And by the way, and you're talking about adding, do
we know if he was wearing like a hoodie or something,
or like a black sweatshirt or what do we do?

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
Was we don't know what kind of shirt he was wearing?
She said, is that? Uh uh? He just said he
was wearing all black with a ski mask that covered
just his forehead and goes around his face. She showed
with her hands the mask. It's exposed his nose but
covered his mouth area. So that's called the how do

(01:18:19):
you say that back lavodka or I don't even know.
It's basically a ski mask that doesn't have the eye holes.
It's in the nose hole. It just has one big
hole that covers either your nose and mouth or just
your mouth. It's one big circular hole.

Speaker 5 (01:18:32):
But no one ever explained his hair in this, like
I mean, I know, I know, we've heard about the eyebrows, eyebrows,
but the it's it's a it's a bacles like a
ski mask.

Speaker 3 (01:18:42):
The ski mask covers her entire head, so she couldn't
see she could see it said. It covered his forehead
and went around his face, so she could see his
eyes and his nose, and that was it. Because the
rest of his head was covered. She could not make
out his Let's see in a couple of different things.

(01:19:02):
It changes depending on which like the early one is
a little bit different from the later one. But she
said it was approximately her height or taller that she
could make out. She couldn't see the color of his
eyebrows or his eyes shape, which that tells me. That
suggests to me that maybe they she didn't look them

(01:19:23):
in the eye, do you know what I mean? People said, Oh,
she came face to face, they looked at each other
in the eye. Again, that's just people exaggerating and adding
details that are not here that you know. And I
blamed things like the the Dateline episode and Howard Bloom
I don't even get me started on him. And now
the new book from Mom. Yeah, yeah, James, James, what's

(01:19:44):
his face? Yeah, I think that. I think that's it.
I'm not going to read any of the reason.

Speaker 4 (01:19:51):
The reason I'm asking this about the sweatshirt thing is
like you think about the abdomine area usually in like
that pocket, you got the pocket thing, But think about
like if he was trying to figure out in this
time that maybe she saw him, if he had his
sheath whatever. Yeah, he was trying to figure out, like,
hey is what's in here? What is not he leaves

(01:20:12):
the house, this is where the sheath gets dropped.

Speaker 6 (01:20:16):
And that speculation on itself on purpose.

Speaker 5 (01:20:21):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:20:23):
Wait, wait, wait, hold on back up here. Okay, the
sheath was found partially under Maddie in her blanket. He
had already lost it long before he walked past. Yeah,
I don't think he even remembered it. I don't think
in all honesty, I don't think he was. I mean,
he he had just bought that earlier, that knife earlier
in the year, and I don't think he was familiar

(01:20:44):
with it. I don't think he hunted. I don't think
he was familiar with this kind of knfe. I don't
think he ever owned a knife that had a sheath.
And my theory is that from what i've and I
think this is backed up somewhere in a document, not
in these documents, but or in something else, or it
just was reported and it might be just complete bs.

(01:21:05):
But rumor has it that And I want to say rumor,
but I swear it was in an official thing. But
who knows that he had worked in a fish market
cutting fish, And people are like, well, I would make
him good with a knife. I'm sorry, but what you
cut with fish with is nothing like a cave bar.
I mean, people need to look at how big these
things are.

Speaker 6 (01:21:27):
Yeah, and so he left it on purpose.

Speaker 3 (01:21:30):
He did that for okay, here here, my son was
a chef. Okay, and a lot of those kitchen knives
have sheaths.

Speaker 5 (01:21:42):
Yeah, because you have it, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:21:46):
Okay, which are knife covers? Okay, So if he really
did work in a fish market, cutting fish. He thought
of when he bought. When he got that that knife
was delivered to him, he saw a decorative for the knife.
It didn't even occur to him that you're supposed to
put this on your belt loop or whatever. In his mind,

(01:22:07):
it was a cover okay, So it didn't even occur
to him. The sheath was not something he like, Like
my husband, you know, he has one of those multi tools.
Occasionally he'll wear wear it on his belts. He wears belts.
A lot of kids these days don't even wear belts. Yeah,
you know, so, so I don't say. And also they
said they've made a lot a big point about the
about that Dickie's receipt and a lot of people feel

(01:22:31):
that the Dickies was one of those one piece cover
off things which don't have You don't wear a belt
with that, so you can't clip a sheath onto one
of those, but they do. I mean, he could have
taken and wrapped something, a towel or something around it
when he from Zana's room. There could be a towel missing,

(01:22:52):
or a t shirt or something. Who knows. It could
just be but she did say it was arrow shaped
and pointy, so it wasn't you know, it wasn't even
all that, you know, she said he was bulging from him,
but it could be just he was holding it near
his his stomach.

Speaker 6 (01:23:07):
She could make it out because it was dark.

Speaker 3 (01:23:10):
It was dark, and the thing is is that and
it wasn't that dark. I mean again, if she saw
him as he was coming through the living room, the
light from that good Vibe sign would have been shining
on him and illuminating him for her like a spotlight. Right,
and while she was back in the dark, like you
know in.

Speaker 6 (01:23:26):
A theater, you're in the dark, you know, And he
didn't see her.

Speaker 3 (01:23:30):
Right, and he didn't see her, so I mean, but
she said, whatever he was holding it was dark, but
it was arrow shaped and could have been a gun.
Now you know where like the people magazines speculated that
it was Zana's food bank. I mean, how do you
get arrow shaped and gun out of food bag from that?
You know? I just plus the food bank was probably
in the kitchen. Why I don't know that whole thing
is By the.

Speaker 4 (01:23:49):
Way, christ I got to ask this question about coburger
potentially working at a fish market.

Speaker 5 (01:23:56):
What's the deal with that. I've actually never heard of it.

Speaker 6 (01:23:58):
I have not either.

Speaker 3 (01:24:01):
Early in the arrest it came up that he had
worked at a fish market cutting fish, and so I
don't even remember which document which how that came up.
In all honesty with you, I'd have to look it
up again.

Speaker 4 (01:24:12):
Well, the reason I'm asking let me see, did Brian
Koburger work at a fish market? The reason I'm asking
this because the question I asked you earlier about the
dog that was Philaid Murphy.

Speaker 6 (01:24:25):
Oh no, not Murphy.

Speaker 3 (01:24:25):
No, you're going there now.

Speaker 5 (01:24:27):
Buddy, Yeah, I mean, I mean, because you got to
think about it, like if he did work at a
fish market, that.

Speaker 3 (01:24:34):
Is trapped up on this dog now, I well, no,
I am, no.

Speaker 4 (01:24:38):
I absolutely am, because I mean, you know, and like
you said, I mean, it may not connect to that,
but it's also just very strange, and especially if the
dog was Fillaid. But it does say here, it says
there's no verified job wreckerds that mention, any official documents,
police court filings, any of that stuff that he did.
But potentially the rumor came from social media speculated precise

(01:25:01):
cutting and Buddy the dog's skinning case.

Speaker 5 (01:25:03):
I guess that's what it goes back to. Maybe that's why.

Speaker 4 (01:25:06):
Someone with fish or meat processing experience assumptions about Coburger
possibly having that kind of job, which we don't know,
so I don't know. FBI pro Folgers said that you
don't need professional training to inflict post mortem injuries or
skin Now, I think he went.

Speaker 6 (01:25:20):
After college students as soon as he arrived to Washington State.

Speaker 5 (01:25:25):
Well, I think that's why he probably went there, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:25:27):
And you look at the documentaries and you see like
all the pictures that were released are not released by
day line. Yeah, they weren't supposed to be released with
all these girls on his phone.

Speaker 5 (01:25:39):
Yeah. And this is the last topic will cover because
I think we've covered, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:25:42):
I mean, we could obviously go into heavy detail on
all of the unseilled files. But the last thing I
want to cover is as we were just talking about,
what were you just saying, I'm sorry, I literally just blanked.

Speaker 3 (01:25:54):
We were talking about the sheaf being left behind on purpose,
and I was saying that I don't believe soul because
I think he just was even if he didn't work
in a fish market, and that and my whole theory
about the thinking of a sheath like a knife cover
rather than being something that you wear. Even if he didn't,
I think he was very inexperienced with that kind of knife,
and I think what happened was is when he walked

(01:26:16):
in that room, he pulled the sheath off and then
started his attack and dropped the sheath not even thinking
about it. I think he was so hyper focused and
rapping and just thinking about what his goal was at
that point, the sheath was just completely forgotten. I think
probably sometime around eight thirty nine o'clock the next morning

(01:26:37):
is when he went back.

Speaker 6 (01:26:38):
Oh crass. He's like, I left the sheath.

Speaker 3 (01:26:41):
I am screwed, which tells me that he didn't do
it on purpose. I don't think he thought he was
that smart. He wanted to avoid. If you read his
whole little paper on how he would investigate a crime
scene and how he would not leave any part of
himself in a crime scene from an investigative point of view,
you know he would that's like people too. Oh he

(01:27:02):
sat down and took off his clothes, but that's why
he didn't leave a blood trail. It's like, no, that
completely defeats the purpose of having worn the clothes over
his stuff. You know, you don't take off the productive
suit and then in the crime scene. Yeah, and just
to dispel a lot of one misconception, I see a
lot when you said that about coming the next day,
a lot of people say, well, he went back to

(01:27:23):
the house, he went into the house, to that street.
He None of that seems to be true because if
you look at his phone record said he was in
Moscow sometime around nine twelve or so, and he was
pretty much back in Pullman by like nine p thirty.
And people said, well, he could have gone to the

(01:27:44):
street and staid, well, first of all, as the phone doesn't,
isn't that pinpointed, But you would think if he went
back to the even to the street, or even to
Taylor Avenue, which is that street that King goes onto,
he would have had to drive him past Lynn Lane,
which the thirteen to twenty Linda Lake camera looked straight
down that road and can see traffic going by on Taylor,

(01:28:07):
and then he would have if he went onto King,
he would have again gone past that one one two
King camera. Well, if you look at all the sightings
of his car in the court documents from earlier, not
these documents, but the court documents that the prosecution submitted.
It lists all the times the cameras saw his car.

(01:28:29):
And at nine o'clock or nine whatever, nine to twelve
or nine thirteen, whatever time it was. The next day,
his car was seen heading southbound on Main Street past
that same A and W like at the corner of
Main and Steiner, at A and W gas station, right
the footage of his car. Yeah, that was the one
where he was going on Steiner and that's where they

(01:28:51):
caught that his front his car didn't have a front
plate license plate. But anyhow they saw his car nine
something going southbound on Main Street.

Speaker 6 (01:28:58):
There.

Speaker 3 (01:28:59):
That's it. Yeah, that's it for that whole day. Is
that hid going southbound on Main Street. So they don't
have them by the Linda Lane cameras, they don't have
them by the Ridge Road cameras, they don't have them
by the King Road camera. So he was not circling
the house. Some people say, well, that was his white
car behind on Wallenta Dry. He was not circling the house.

(01:29:21):
He never went back after that time, and I don't
think they can confidently say that if the I think
he other than later that day, he churned his phone
off again for several hours and That's when I think
he was bearing his evidence or getting rid of his evidence.
Is when he turned his phone back off again on

(01:29:41):
was it later on the thirteenth or the fourteenth?

Speaker 4 (01:29:43):
The camera well, I mean, and to that point, I
mean even at twelve twenty six am on the night
of the murders, he was listening to police scanner feed
from Pullman that's in documents monitored law enforcement activity beforehand.
His phone that entered airplane mode from two forty five
am to four am, aligning with the timeline. This is
kind of how all the stuff started pointing to him.
But you know, it's just strange to me. This this

(01:30:05):
guy was you know, he was in college. What you're
in college for? What is it criminology or what was
he in for? Exact criminology?

Speaker 3 (01:30:13):
I think one of his specialties was it was criminology,
and I think one of his specialties was, uh, cyber like,
which is nuts, elect electronics and stuff forensics. I'm totally
blanking on the word the forensics for electronics and stuff,
which actually he did do a pretty good job wiping

(01:30:35):
his stuff. He did wipe everything. Yeah, I mean a
lot of people say, well, he wiped all his stuff
so that's why they don't know if he's Papa Roger.
Little thing is it's like they've got that fact that
he went to that website on November thirteenth, So how
would they know by looking at search history that he
went to that website if he wiped everything. Clearly he
didn't wipe everything, but that's not how they know who
Papa Rodgers.

Speaker 4 (01:30:56):
And also keeping in mind with the Papa Roger thing,
what most people don't realize that people that are not
in like the government corruption conspiracy realm is when you
really start digging into and or have been involved in
law enforcement FBI any of that stuff, Like as soon
as the FBI gets involved, they know everything immediately. There
there is nothing that they cannot find. It doesn't matter

(01:31:19):
what you're trying to do. Is well, absolutely they do.
That's that's what That's what her point is. But the
point too is like there's nothing it is you know, Okay,
so say like twenty five or thirty years ago, forty
years ago, if you do the same Brian Coburger thing
thirty years ago, you might have got away with it,
you know, But the reality is times have change, especially

(01:31:41):
with the kind of pooling of DNA and even familiar
DNA or familial old DNA. And even still if you
would have committed crimes thirty years ago, they could then
also go BA you know, back on cold cases and
track your DNA based on the stuff they have today geology,
they would not have been able to use geofence or
geo tracking today from thirty years ago. But it is

(01:32:03):
so hard to get away with a murder today, Like
I mean you you would have to, you would have
to set your life up over it a course of
months or years in a pattern to get away with
murder in a lot of ways nowadays, especially if.

Speaker 5 (01:32:17):
Especially if it's something like this, especially if the cases
all over the world there is there is, but those are.

Speaker 3 (01:32:23):
Because it's not going to last long, Yeah, it's not.

Speaker 4 (01:32:25):
And and the thing is, like, to be a murder
and be successful nowadays, you're you're going to have to
really really be on top of your game. And and
it's just so hard. And this is a it's a
prime example of Brian Coburger was in college for this, like.

Speaker 5 (01:32:39):
He should have known.

Speaker 6 (01:32:41):
He's getting his PhD.

Speaker 5 (01:32:42):
Yeah, and he was a what what a what is
a student teacher?

Speaker 6 (01:32:46):
I guess you would say, is a teacher a ta yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:32:48):
Teacher assistant. Yeah, so this guy is still screwed it up,
and he actually screwed up more than I would imagine.

Speaker 6 (01:32:54):
I mean, you know, the I don't know, he left
no blood evidence anywhere. And obviously they watched him.

Speaker 3 (01:33:02):
Clean cleaned his car really good.

Speaker 6 (01:33:04):
And him taking out the trash to the neighbors travel.

Speaker 5 (01:33:07):
But here's a question without the nice sheath would have
found them, you know, I don't.

Speaker 6 (01:33:14):
They would have from his Lantra. Well, yeah, from his
car car.

Speaker 3 (01:33:19):
Can I can I just get something in with this too,
because there's a there's a a lot of people do
not understand how he became a suspect. A lot of
people think it was the Lantra and it wasn't. And
the probable cause affidavit was the biggest uh misinformation that

(01:33:41):
misinformat it was the biggest confuser for that because the
probable cause affidavit mentioned things that happened prior to Colberger
having become a suspect, and people took that as being
as part of part of the investigation, is that that's

(01:34:02):
the way it happened in that order, like it says
that the WSU officers had went out after they got
the BOLO to look for a white Lantra and they
found Colberg's Lantra and then Officer Pain or Detective Pain
spoke to them and found out about it. You know,

(01:34:22):
that was around November twenty ninth, and then he looked
up Coburger's license and it all went from there. No,
that's not what happened. Now on November twenty ninth. Yes,
the WSU officers did find Colborger's car and the information
in the parking registry for the university. However, the specific
the BOLO was so specific in the twenty eleven to

(01:34:46):
twenty thirteen model that the officers said, they're looking for
a twenty eleven twenty thirteen, this is a twenty fifteen.
So they dismissed it, and which was reasonable. They didn't
want to send I mean, they were getting so many
tips on white Alantras after they went public. It was crazy,
but they were, they said if they were very specific

(01:35:07):
in what they were looking for, So, you know, they
made a note of it. It was in their records,
but they didn't call it in as a tip because
it wasn't the right car. And what happened really was
the investigative genetic genealogy. You know. They did a they
ran the DNA from the sheaf through Cotis, could not
find anybody because he had no record. They sent it

(01:35:30):
to AUTHORAM Labs in Texas, who created a SNP or
SNIP DNA profile, which they started to build a family
tree based off. They uploaded it to what the genealogy
database base that they had, which is much smaller. They
apparently found four brothers that were kind of on the
family tree, but then they hit a dead end from

(01:35:50):
that point and at that point Moscow said, let's send
it to the genealogy team at the FBI. So on
December thirteenth, the FBI got the SNIP profile and they
expanded on that and December thirteenth it's always also another
significant date because that's the date that Colberger's license plate

(01:36:11):
was caught by a Colorado license plate reader. He was
on his way to Pennsylvania with his dad. The FBI
did not get that's the same day the FBI got
that DNA, So the FBI was not trailing Coldberger to
Pennsylvania because they didn't even get the DNA to start
testing it building the IDD until December thirteenth, when Colburger

(01:36:33):
was already on the road. So then on December nineteenth
they contacted Moscow and said what they did was they
got a hit in the public genealogy base, which they
then used that relative. It was a relative, it was
a partial match. It was not Colburger or Colburger's dad,
it was some more distant relative. They used birth certificates,

(01:36:55):
death certificates, and marriage certificates to build a family tree
for that relative and some branch. At some point they
got to this branch of this Colberger family in Pennsylvania,
and somebody noticed that the youngest son, youngest child in
the Coburger family named Brian just so happened to live
twelve minutes away from the crime scene. So they went, oh,

(01:37:18):
this is somebody we should probably look into. He's on
the family tree. They don't have his DNA yet, but
he's on the family tree. So they send that to
Moscow as a tips that you might want to look
into the guy. And so at that point, that was
december's nineteenth. On December twentieth is when Corporal Paine contacted
WSU officers, and that's when he first heard about them

(01:37:39):
having seen Colbert's car back on the twenty ninth. Then
from that point on, everything in the probable cause affidavit
is chronological. Then they so they found out that they
found out his carbridge register in Pennsylvania. They called Pennsylvania
found up Pennsylvania doesn't issue front license plates, so that

(01:37:59):
they find at the coburger didn't change to Washington plates
until after November eighteenth, which mends means on the night
of the crime, he only had one plate on his
carr and no front plate. That's a big red flag
right there. Then they checked the ID and see that
he could fit. They can't exclude him from what Dylan saw.
He wasn't like short and very heavy with blonde hair,

(01:38:20):
you know what I mean. He could fit, So there's
another thing. So then they also find out well, first
of all, the first thing they probably found out was
he's got a white Lantra. Hello, that's pretty big coincidence.
This guy who you know, you know, is on the
family tree and he has a white Lautra and he
didn't have a front plate on it. So then they
start finding up and then they get it that that
gives him the warrant to get the phone records on

(01:38:41):
December twenty third, So that's when they see that he
had some very suspicious behavior that night, and he was
driving around. He turned his phone off, which was really fishy.
Why would his phone go off, you know, even when
he was still in Pullman when his phone should worked
as fine, So they knew he didn't lose service. And
then at the same time his photo is off. This
white Lantra with no plate is seen videos no front plate.

(01:39:02):
And then and then the big one that people ignore
a lot is that the car sped off. The car,
white Lantra with no front plate, speeds off at four
twenty At four forty eight, Colberger's phone comes on and
he was the car sped off heading south right, and
they believe he went south.

Speaker 6 (01:39:23):
Yeah, and he went a different direction right. He went
out like he went.

Speaker 3 (01:39:28):
He went out from King Road and went around on
Wallenta and and wove his way down through that neighborhood
and came out on Police River Drive, and they believe
he continued to go through some back roads. I think
what happened was he decided because he took a really
circular securitis route coming to Moscow that night, because if

(01:39:52):
you think about it, should only taken him twelve minutes
to get there, but it took over thirty minutes before
he was seen over on Indy Hills Drive coming in
from the east. He should have been coming in from
the west. So he went all the way around to
avoid all the cameras in Moscow, I think, And so
when he was leaving, I think he was trying to
avoid the cameras as yourself, and so I think he
took the I think he turned right, and he took

(01:40:13):
some side roads like sand Road, and he got himself lost.
And at four forty eight, he's only a couple miles
south of Moscow still, because he's been wandering around out there, right,
and I think he got lost, turned his phone on
to uses GPS to here where the heck he was,
And so at four forty eight his phone turns on
just south of Moscow and uses the Blaine Tower just

(01:40:37):
after the White Malantra head itself. You know, it's just like, yeah,
I didn't think about to me, that all puts them
right there. When he says he's supposedly over on the
other side of Pullman in the park stargazing on a
foggy night, I know he never actually said he was stargazing.
But it's funny to say, but that is how they
got to him, was the genetics genealogy, and that happened

(01:41:02):
around December nineteenth. It was not nothing to do with
his car. However, to your point, Sherry, I think had
they not gotten that, I think they would it would
have been tedious and would have taken a lot more time.
But I think if they would have gone through every
single thing, they eventually would have hooked up with WSU
and her on.

Speaker 5 (01:41:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:41:25):
Well, so even that was not his car, oh was it? No?

Speaker 5 (01:41:29):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:41:31):
Yeah, three five that had that was speeding south past
that gas station at three forty five am. And if
you look at the documents at three forty five am,
they have Colberger's car heading north on Molentel over by
the house.

Speaker 6 (01:41:45):
So that was not him.

Speaker 3 (01:41:46):
It was just another white car.

Speaker 5 (01:41:47):
And so back to the point too of like, you know,
he screwed up a lot. Actually, I mean I mean
he did. I mean in his now, he screwed up
a lot. Like for someone that's been in the school
that you're in and doing what you're doing, you're an idiot.

Speaker 6 (01:42:01):
Well I'm just saying he had no drops of blood
anywhere in this it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 (01:42:06):
There's that car and you can clean good.

Speaker 5 (01:42:09):
Yeah, you can clean good. I mean that that's one thing.

Speaker 6 (01:42:11):
But and considering what the person in jail next to
him said about him in jail, he is definitely OCD
because they were saying, like in part of the documents,
it's like he drove the other prisoners crazy because he
took forty five minute showers. How do you even get
to take a force here?

Speaker 3 (01:42:29):
I don't know, hand washing constantly?

Speaker 5 (01:42:31):
Yes, But here's the thing about that, So like O
c D.

Speaker 4 (01:42:34):
And I think they said that he had what, uh,
autistic whatever you know? Now, listen, autistic people are extremely smart.

Speaker 5 (01:42:43):
I mean they are. I mean oftentimes they have can.

Speaker 3 (01:42:45):
Be No, they can't be.

Speaker 5 (01:42:46):
Yeah, they can be.

Speaker 3 (01:42:47):
But my child is autistic, so I know a lot
about autism totally.

Speaker 6 (01:42:51):
But you can be.

Speaker 4 (01:42:53):
Yeah, you can be very coordinated smart in certain things,
but then other things you miss. And there's things that maybe, uh,
maybe someone that's not as smart as you on certain
things don't miss.

Speaker 5 (01:43:04):
And so I and I think maybe that's that's I.

Speaker 4 (01:43:07):
Just don't understand how if if your entire livelihood and
what you're going to school for is to investigate and
figure out criminal minds and how they think and what
they should do and kind of and then.

Speaker 6 (01:43:18):
And and here, Yeah, that's what I feel like that
he was trying to do.

Speaker 5 (01:43:23):
But he did a horrible job at that And and
I guess that was the thing. And I want to
go back for a second, and Kristen, we're going to
wrap this up in a second.

Speaker 3 (01:43:31):
Sure.

Speaker 4 (01:43:31):
But as we had had Jason Hansen on the CIA guy,
he's he's like a world famous CI he has a
CIA spy school.

Speaker 5 (01:43:39):
And I think it's Utah. Yeah, and he's been on
Oprah and everybody.

Speaker 4 (01:43:44):
But when we had had him on and I and
we were talking about this before the podcast, I think
it was after someone had found the nice sheath. Now
I don't know that we knew Brian Coberger was necessarily
the perpetrator at this time, but it was one of
the things he said was like, as a CIA guy,
if a CIA guy is going through this house and

(01:44:04):
they're going.

Speaker 5 (01:44:05):
To do this exact murder, they're going to be a ghost.
There's They're going to be a ghost, and there's no chance.
And what Brian was trying to do, but he failed
multiple miserably, miserably he felt multiple levels. Yeah, and I
think that, and I think that's the difference in you know,
thank goodness too, thank you absolutely absolutely yeah, for sure.

Speaker 6 (01:44:28):
Think that Brian Colberger is the only murderer in this case.

Speaker 5 (01:44:33):
Absolutely yeah, I think so.

Speaker 3 (01:44:35):
Any there's there's just no evidence. I mean, she Dylan
didn't see anybody else leaving, you know, and who is
he going to cover for? I mean, he just interview
upon interview, said he was he was a loner. He
ticked people off, he rubbed people the wrong way. He
didn't really have any friends. He had just moved there,
I think June twenty first, and he knew a couple

(01:44:57):
of people. But he's really gonna some with that abrasive, narcissistic,
just rude personality from whatever he could turn on the charm.
That's why I think he really was a because they talked.
There's an interview with a nurse or a receptionist and
his doctor's office. Apparently, like on the seventeenth of the
eighteenth of November, he had a doctor's appointment and he think,

(01:45:18):
oh he was so charming and so nice, and they
just so such a such a wonderful person that they
made note of it, you know what I mean, Like
he was noticeably so to me that that's just a psychopath.
He's just a psychopath.

Speaker 6 (01:45:32):
And I and then when his stops with the police,
when he was like asking the rules of like how
you do certain things, he was very charming. He was
very charming people.

Speaker 3 (01:45:44):
Wait, but let me finish my thought place. The thing
is is that that type of person. He was there
for four and a half five months, and you can't
convince me that he managed to make such a good
friend that not only was that friend willing to kill
with him and commit a quadruple homicide, but Brian is

(01:46:05):
willing to go to prison and not even mention his
name and do four life sentences for.

Speaker 6 (01:46:10):
Him, right, yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:46:12):
And who the heck is that? Tell me who makes
that kind of relationship?

Speaker 4 (01:46:15):
And I hate to even talk about this, But the
reason why I have to talked about this is because
I have I have a first cousin that is a
serial killer and he is on death row. Wow, And
so he actually still calls us every once in a
while and I will talk to him. And the reason
I say this is because to what you just said,

(01:46:35):
Kristen is at the family reunions that we used to
hang out with him. He committed most of these murders
in the eighties, So when we were at like family
reunions in the nineties and you know, early two thousands
before he got caught, you know, he was the nicest
guy you would ever talk to, Like he was the
one person that you wanted to go and talk to,

(01:46:56):
Like when you go to family reunions, it's like, hey,
we get to go talk to him because he's he's
like the coolest dude.

Speaker 5 (01:47:01):
And he would talk about he was the most storytelling, charismatic, all.

Speaker 4 (01:47:08):
Of the all of the things that you would you know,
feel like like, hey, this is the guy you want
to talk to. And and oftentimes these people that are
like this the narcissist the people that are really and
also that's like the CI thing. The CI tries to
find people like that, but not all the way.

Speaker 5 (01:47:27):
They go to a level where they're like, yeah, they
recruit the people that's almost there.

Speaker 1 (01:47:34):
There.

Speaker 3 (01:47:35):
A psychopaths can make really it depends on what she's
good or evil with their superpower of being able to
do that, and he can turn it off and turn on.
I mean, if he really is also autistic. That would
throw a wrench into the hole the rest of it,
do you know what I mean? Because because autistic people,
that's where they have the awkwardness of of not knowing

(01:47:56):
how to do small talk and stuff like that, and
they can turn on the harm. It just it just
doesn't it can come off almost what is that uh
uncanny Valley? Yeah, you know what I mean? For some people,
it's like you can tell they're trying, but they're not
quite and it's like they're pretending to be human and
and so maybe that and but that can still work

(01:48:17):
on some people, and so maybe with the doctor's office.
But the best that was the only time I ever
heard him to described that way. Every other time you
just hear that he was awkward and abrasive and root,
especially to women.

Speaker 4 (01:48:28):
Well that's why I see, I doesn't want psychopaths or narcissists.
They want they want they want sociopaths, but they but
they want they don't want sociopaths.

Speaker 5 (01:48:37):
They want they want.

Speaker 6 (01:48:38):
People to consider Brian Cooldberger as I think he's all
of the buzz well, I.

Speaker 5 (01:48:43):
Think that he was at the very least narciss well
not even necessarily narcis. I think it was psychoath.

Speaker 6 (01:48:49):
Yeah, he definitely is into himself.

Speaker 5 (01:48:51):
Well, yeah, no, I don't think he was. I mean,
if you look at him, I think that he had
so many I think he had so many things that
he was. I feel like he felt like he was rejected.

Speaker 6 (01:49:02):
I think he felt like he ever had empathy, he
never experienced feelings.

Speaker 3 (01:49:08):
We talked about that in the TAPA talk Writing a
Team Nygeria, when we talked about the visual snow and
all that. I mean, I just saw something of a
Day where they described and they said, all psychopaths are narcissists,
but not all nice narcissists are cycle paths. Yeah, so
I feel like he probably is a psychopath. It possibly autistic.

(01:49:28):
I mean, not all psychopaths are brilliant, and you know,
I mean you just they're not all They're not all
able to switch.

Speaker 6 (01:49:36):
It on or off.

Speaker 5 (01:49:37):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:49:37):
I mean, even even like bt K, everybody said he
was a stand up guy, but nobody would have told
him that he was a joyed a party with you know.
I mean it it's you know, so yeah, it's it's hard.
It's hard to say, but I absolutely don't think that
he was capable of making the type of friendship or
connection with somebody that it would take to be able
to get them to do this together. That's why I

(01:49:59):
think absolutely and just all the evidence points to it
being one weapon. And Dylie only saw one person, you know,
so I mean he was the one person who kept
going over there. I mean, I think they would have
seen some kind of evidence that he he lived alone,
you know, they wouldn't find some kind of evidence that
he had friends and stuff. There was a couple. There
was one thing mentioned in the documents where somebody, a witness,

(01:50:21):
came forward and said that they came home and he
was sitting and talking to some guy on the steps
who looked like the way I kind of I'm doing
from memory now, but something that he looked like some
kind of motorcycle dude or something, you know, kind of
the way it was described was, I mean, I know
how to write a motorcycle. I don't think my dad
wrote a moortcycle. He's not at all like what you

(01:50:42):
think of like a motorcycle gang person, you know what
I mean. But that's the way they were making it
almost sound like kind of an unsavory motorcycle type dude.
And then when they walked up, they both kind of
shut up and looked at them and you know, just
kind of watched them like they were hiding. So it's like, well,
who is that dude? You know. But then again, there
was a bunch of stuff in the documents. People are making,
you know, claim that he went to Oklahoma State University

(01:51:04):
and and somebody gave him a knife, and you know,
you go through this whole story and you'll see that repeated.
I think that was one of the other stories is that,
you know, people were saying, oh, he you know, he
had a knife and he got this knife from this
guy and blah blah blah, and he was And then
you read down to the bottom of the document and
the cops, you know, whoever was writing it, says, yeah,
well we looked into her and she had like thirty
six different reports over the years, and she'd been calling

(01:51:25):
into like the FBI and other people to these different cases,
and so they weren't really taking her very seriously that story.

Speaker 6 (01:51:31):
So we know, I just think that it is. But
I think about the witness that went on Tinder and
went on a date with him, and she went on
a date. They went to a movie or whatever. She
felt uncomfortable and she had to go into her bathroom
to pretend to throw up. And then after he left
finally she said, you have good birthing hips that is
not a normal person.

Speaker 4 (01:51:53):
No, But but it goes back to the point where
you know, I talk about my first cousin. There are
some people that are, you know, very good in certain
environments and talking to people. I don't think co Murger
was that way. I think he was a little off putting,
offsetting a little bit. I think he had these tendencies
in his mind that he had this deep dark thing

(01:52:14):
that he did not I mean, and it's weird, and
like when we've talked about spiritual stuff on on the
podcast for and it's like, sometimes you think about what
people do, is like, is it like some kind of
evil spirit that gets in these people?

Speaker 5 (01:52:25):
And I know that sounds nuts, but we don't know.
But it's just like, how like what leads people to
this stuff? And then and then there's other people that
like it seems like they their entire lives, everything they do,
everything they say, how how charismatic they are, how approachable
they are.

Speaker 6 (01:52:43):
They're always doing And Ted Bundy was his like you know,
he loved him obviously, but.

Speaker 5 (01:52:49):
There are some people.

Speaker 4 (01:52:50):
There are some people that are so much better at
charismatic side of this, and they're also just he was
he was like that person, yeah yeah, And there's and
then there's people that are co and I think Coburger
I think that he was smart, but not that smart.

Speaker 5 (01:53:04):
And I think that he was rejected potentially.

Speaker 4 (01:53:06):
I think that he was pissed off about something and
leading him back to the last thing we're going to ask,
and then we're gonna I think what we're gonna do
with this podcast is we're going to play out.

Speaker 6 (01:53:16):
Olivia. Yeah, Olivia's and am I saying it Ryan Kristin
because it starts with an A.

Speaker 3 (01:53:23):
I think it's Olivia Olivia, but it sounds like Olivia.

Speaker 5 (01:53:27):
I think it's Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:53:30):
Well so I guess I guess my My whole point
of this is to end this is how do we
think Brian Coburger is going to do in prison? Because
there I've seen like prison guys on YouTube that says, hey,
I've been in prison. I think prison is going to
use him for the benefit because of this and this
and that. Do you think that they're going to try

(01:53:52):
to kill him in prison, or do you think that
he's going to kind of be touted as like this
glorious leader in certain factions of a prison.

Speaker 3 (01:54:01):
I can't see him being charismatic enough to become a
glorious leader of any kind of thing. But as far
as you know, being killed or not, I guess it's
going to all depend on who he's around. I mean,
is I mean the one the guy who killed Jeffrey Dahmer,
if I remember correctly, pretty much just did it just
because he wanted to be able to get his name

(01:54:21):
in the news. He was just a glory hound type
of thing, and people say, what was because he was weird.
It's like, well, yeah, that's what he said. But I
think he just was looking for his fifteen minutes. I mean,
just because you're a convict doesn't mean you don't want
your fifteen minutes too, you know. So I guess it
depends on who he ends up being around. I don't
see him in the beginning being in the genuine general

(01:54:42):
population a whole lot. I just don't. I don't think
he has the fortitude to do really well in there.
I don't think he's going to be very intimidating to people,
and frankly, I don't really care what happens to him.
That well, true, whatever happens, whatever will be, will be casasra.

Speaker 6 (01:55:05):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:55:07):
I'm glad he did not get the death penalty because
to me, life in prison is far far worse of
especially without parole, because he has no chance of that
and me and yes, he could possibly appeal, but that
doesn't mean the appeal is going to be granted, because
it won't be. I can guarantee you that it won't be.
So so yeah, to me, I think it's much more
punishment for what for what he's going to do, because

(01:55:29):
just the thought of him getting the death penalty and
then another thirty or forty years and what has that
guy's been on death row in Idaho for like forty
two years now? I mean, could you imagine their family
going through that for forty two years. I just I
think they dodged a bullet on that normally doesn't feel
like it right now, but later on they're going to
be thankful they're not going to these constant parole heres

(01:55:51):
and all these other things and dealing with being harassed
by people who WI oppose the death penalty I mean
there's crazies and everything. I mean, they're going to end
up with that too. I personally do oppose a death penalty,
but mainly because I feel like if one innocent person
gets killed, and again, I feel like the death penalty
is the easy way out.

Speaker 5 (01:56:10):
So I agree, I agree with that. I was going
to ask you that question.

Speaker 4 (01:56:13):
I was going to ask you how you felt about
the the plea agreement, and I agree. I mean we
we you know in some cases, like if you knew
for sure, like for me, if I knew for sure,
like what without a doubt that you did this heinous act,
I would probably be in agreement for the death penalty.

Speaker 5 (01:56:29):
But you just never know.

Speaker 6 (01:56:31):
And you know, our justice session and when you tell
the jurors on the same juror panel, you don't know
how they're going to react and how I think. Yeah,
and then and I could give them a non guilty.

Speaker 3 (01:56:44):
Place because that could have been another Casey Anthony or O. J.
Simpson or you know, any people that were It was
just so obvious and somebody just can't get I mean,
watching how many people they call them proburgers in the
in the groups that were Proburgers that were just he's
innocent being he's being railroaded, he's being framed despite any

(01:57:06):
evidence whatsoever. Even today with him confessing and saying, yeah,
I did it, they're still holding well he's being forced
to say he did. I mean, they're just they're delusional.
And if you've got one of those who was good
enough at covering it up and enduring select in jury selection,
and then you have a hung jury, you know, I mean,
just there's just so many risks and then even like

(01:57:29):
I said, even once he gets sentenced to the death penalty,
it still ends up being more like life in prison,
and it just drags. Its like life in prison for
the families too. Right, Yeah, I think that's horrible.

Speaker 4 (01:57:43):
That's what's so funny, christ And is like, you know,
we we obviously talked about conspiracy and stuff we had
we have for seven or eight years, and so there
are times that we are on this, you know, I
guess this political side or that political side, but like
if we switch from like hey, well maybe we're pro this,
and then you know, we find out new information or

(01:58:04):
something happens, and then you know, a year later, we're like, hey,
you know what, we're not on this side. Anymore, because
what our main goal is is truth. And sometimes people
that kind of devote their time to you and they
think that, hey.

Speaker 5 (01:58:20):
You're on our side. They feel like you're always.

Speaker 4 (01:58:24):
Supposed to be on their side no matter what revelations
come out, right, and so and so for us, it's
like it's always like, look, we're just on the side
of truth. That's all we ever want. We always want
the truth. We always want what's right for the people.

Speaker 5 (01:58:37):
And for us, it's like when you hear conspiracy, it's like, man,
you know what's It's not conspiracy. It's about like we
want the best for people in the government.

Speaker 6 (01:58:44):
But what makes me sad about this whole case is
that I think that the families haven't gotten closure from
the trial that was supposed to happen. Yeah, I mean, well,
at least some of them feel that way.

Speaker 3 (01:58:57):
Yeah, and I don't. But I don't know who the
thing is. Even if we had had a trial, the idea,
I mean, all of this stuff that's coming out now
would have possibly come out, you know, but Colbert, do
if anybody thinks Coburger would have gotten on the stand
and say, yeah, I did it, and here's how I
did it. And here's why I did it. That never
was going to happen. So and then he could have

(01:59:19):
gotten off and he was never going to admit guilts.
He would have been found guilty by a jury, but
he wouldn't have admitted the guilts. And in this sense,
he at least admits the guilt. They're not being drug
back into prison for the next forty odd court sorry,
for the next forty some odd years, you know. And

(01:59:40):
it's just to me, it's just and I'm not in
their shoes, you know. I mean, I can see that
knee jerk reaction of you killed my loved one. I
want to see you dead too. I could totally like
feel for that. I mean, I can relate to that.
I understand that I've had a loved when guilled, so
I know what that like. I just the reality of

(02:00:02):
what the death penalty, what the death the value with
the death penalty is versus what people think it is
are completely two completely different things. So you think you're
gonna get this instant justice eye for an eye, and
really you just get a life in prison without parole,
and the family's being dragged along in it for the
entire time, and there's never any closure and still no

(02:00:25):
admission of Gil is just constantly him saying I didn't
do it, I didn't do it, I didn't do it,
I didn't do it, and you have to hear that
for forty years. Yeah, that's worse to me. I thot
that's a hell, that's hell on earth.

Speaker 5 (02:00:35):
I agree.

Speaker 4 (02:00:36):
And listen, guys, I mean we uh, we were gonna
I was, I was going to end this with the
Olivia again savez I guess impact statement. But I think
that you guys should go and listen to all the
statements because I think they're very important.

Speaker 5 (02:00:52):
Oh yeah, and Christen, we are so glad to have
you on.

Speaker 4 (02:00:56):
I mean, we've talked about this many times, but you know,
I know that you've been heavy and deep into this, uh,
this case and the murders. What I do want to
say for the family that may be listening or whoever
we are praying for you guys, we are, I mean,
our heartfelt everything goes out to you. We can't even
imagine what you guys are going through. And we can

(02:01:18):
talk about it, we can speculate, we can discuss it,
and we're doing it because like we want, we just
want to.

Speaker 5 (02:01:26):
We don't want to.

Speaker 4 (02:01:27):
We want to bring light to the I guess conversation
and the case especially to maybe save other people in
the in the future and.

Speaker 5 (02:01:37):
Or other college kids. I mean, I think that's the most.

Speaker 4 (02:01:39):
Important and and christ and I appreciate you coming on
and talking about it is it's not an easy subject
to talk about, even when we're playing music and the
and the intros or outros. That's why we pick one song,
and that is Shiver's Image of You by Loving Caliber,
because it's just like the song kind of depicts how
shattering that is for families and people to where it's

(02:02:02):
like when they lose someone that they can't ever imagine losing.

Speaker 5 (02:02:06):
That song kind of depicts that.

Speaker 4 (02:02:08):
And so it's like every other song we've ever played
on any podcast cannot do justice for what we're going
to talk about. And so as we speculate and as
we talk about all this stuff, just understand any family
members or any people that've ever lost anybody in tragic
say what.

Speaker 5 (02:02:24):
We've talked to a lot of people.

Speaker 4 (02:02:25):
We've talked to family members, we've helped on cases on
stuff throughout the United States, and it's never easy for
family members for sure. But I think it's also important
to talk about it. I think it's important to highlight
that stuff like this does happen, it can happen to you.
And I think that it's you know, if you're a parent,

(02:02:46):
you should talk to your kids about, you know, the
dangers in the world today, because we don't live in
the same world that you may be lived in.

Speaker 5 (02:02:52):
If you're forty or fifty or six years old. It's
a different world, and there are evil people out there.
And I think Ryan Koberger is evil. I think I
think you can look in his eyes in the pictures,
the images.

Speaker 6 (02:03:06):
He looks like the devil.

Speaker 5 (02:03:07):
He looks like he has no soul.

Speaker 6 (02:03:10):
And I think I think no empathy, know nothing, and
I think to be it just kills me that he
could not even like during the sentencing, he just could
not even apologize.

Speaker 4 (02:03:23):
He's not going to because when you look at him,
it's just you don't see a person almost and and
and there are people like that on this earth.

Speaker 5 (02:03:32):
And you know, whatever your spiritual beliefs are or whatever.

Speaker 4 (02:03:36):
I mean, you know, some people will say that's evil,
and I think I think that you can't say it
isn't evil based on what he did to these to
these young kids.

Speaker 3 (02:03:45):
I think, and just to add to you said, it's
like he's not a bit of person. And I think
what I would like to add to that is that
what's really important is people who follow these things and
listen to this podcasts and join these groups and watch
these true crime YouTubers and TikTokers. It's really important. And
I second that people should go and listen to that

(02:04:07):
those every single one of those victim impact statements and
look at those pictures of those three girls and that
young man, and remember that these are not actors, These
are not headshots, These are not people pretending these were
real people. I mean, very often even I have to

(02:04:31):
admit that sometimes I get so caught up because I'm
I'm into the mystery and the and the forensics and
the IgG and all the other kind of stuff. I
have to stop myself and look at these pictures. And
like the other day they had one of Kaylee and
Maddie and some friends. Somebody posted a video of them
tubing down and I heard their voices and it just
really hit me that, God, yeah, that's right, these are

(02:04:53):
real people. We need to remember that these are these
these were somebody's lives. This was not this is not acting,
this is not criminal minds, this is not SVU or
whatever you watch on TV, and just you need to
take a step back and a breath sometimes. But people
are debating it and accusing people and and all that
other stuff, and just take a step back and just

(02:05:17):
remember that this is not your for your entertainment. This
is this is real life and real people are expected
by this. And these kids are are They're really gone.
You know, we didn't get to even know them until
after they were gone, which is just the world didn't
get to know them until after they were gone. And
that is just the saddest thing ever. And just remember this.

Speaker 5 (02:05:36):
It's sad.

Speaker 6 (02:05:37):
I mean, you know when you hear voices like like
you said, just makes me want to cry, right.

Speaker 5 (02:05:41):
Yeah, there's a voice.

Speaker 4 (02:05:43):
Is a is a signal of a soul, and it's
like you're never going to hear that voice from anybody
else ever again.

Speaker 5 (02:05:50):
And that's the sad part. But Christen, thank you so
much for coming on. I don't know if you have.

Speaker 4 (02:05:55):
Anything to I don't know if you you know, if
you I don't know, I don't, I don't you don't
do a podcasting that stuff. But if you do have
anywhere that people want to follow you, you can say that.

Speaker 3 (02:06:05):
Now, well you can join the join that big group,
the totally blanking at the Idahoa.

Speaker 5 (02:06:14):
University case discussion group.

Speaker 3 (02:06:17):
Chris, Yes, sorry, I'm it's late, it's getting late.

Speaker 6 (02:06:20):
Yeah, it was one of the first groups I did join.

Speaker 3 (02:06:24):
Join us, Join us there. You'll see me posting there
if you have questions, if you're trying to figure stuff out,
if you'd like to know the facts of the case
and not just all the rumors and stuff. There's a
lot of really great people in the group. There's a
lot of craziness too. I mean two hundred you know,
over quarter what is that quite a million people. You know,
there's gonna be a lot of kooks, and there's a

(02:06:44):
lot of drama and stuff. But they do try really
hard to do They just got a great moderation team
there and they stop down on victim blaming and family
attacks and things like that. But a lot of good
people there who are trying to give people answers, make
sure that the truth is out there about the case

(02:07:05):
and not all this misinformation and everything. And I'm just
one of them who I guess just does a little
more deeper dive than most say people would.

Speaker 6 (02:07:16):
And thank you for doing so much, because that is
a hard thing to do, is to come on a
podcast and talk about this.

Speaker 5 (02:07:24):
Yeah, it is. It's tough. It's tough for us, for sure.
It's been eight years we've been doing it's still hard.
But we do appreciate you. Christin, thank you so much
for coming on. Guys. Listen, that's gonna be it for us.
We will be back quite a few times this week
and then in August we are turning over a new leaf.
We have announced on social media. You don't know what

(02:07:45):
it means yet, but you will soon find out. So
just stay tuned and think you know that what No,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:07:51):
I do.

Speaker 5 (02:07:52):
I do know what it means. But guys, we're gonna
close it with Shiver's image of you by loving and I.

Speaker 6 (02:07:57):
Want you, guys just to like pray for these families right.

Speaker 4 (02:07:59):
Now, absolutely and listen to the words of this because
this is probably what a lot of these family members
have been dealing with since the loss of their kids.

Speaker 5 (02:08:08):
Guys, until next time, we love you, peace out, peace.

Speaker 6 (02:08:11):
Out, guys, love you.

Speaker 5 (02:08:15):
It's just for a minute.

Speaker 1 (02:08:18):
I'd falstly not dream about you.

Speaker 5 (02:08:25):
I hate to admit it.

Speaker 2 (02:08:27):
A lot of it is I don't know what to do.

Speaker 3 (02:08:34):
Most of the.

Speaker 1 (02:08:35):
Times I think I'll make it through, but all that
it takes just one AMU of.

Speaker 3 (02:08:43):
You, and nobody knows the way it s.

Speaker 5 (02:08:51):
Nobody knows.

Speaker 6 (02:08:59):
It hurts you.

Speaker 1 (02:09:00):
It's the thing ALE know with my friends.

Speaker 3 (02:09:03):
And we drained, and.

Speaker 2 (02:09:08):
It's I can't remember how it would feel.

Speaker 6 (02:09:13):
To wake up in that bed ride beside.

Speaker 5 (02:09:17):
You, all of them amies I tried to raised, just.

Speaker 2 (02:09:22):
Because back when I'm sober, I.

Speaker 5 (02:09:25):
See that things and it shiver.

Speaker 7 (02:09:30):
Nobody knows the way it shither. Nobody knows because it's
it's cold, then it's not likely that Jill.

Speaker 1 (02:09:43):
And my arms, its shivers, it a it's just for

(02:10:16):
a minute, I fall asleep and not dream of play.
I hate till admitte mot of it is. I don't
know if I cop without.

Speaker 2 (02:10:33):
Your sh.

Speaker 5 (02:10:36):
Nobody knows the way.

Speaker 3 (02:10:41):
Nobody knows because jeers it's cold and it's not with
that joke and my arms.

Speaker 1 (02:10:51):
And shivers.

Speaker 5 (02:10:56):
Shivers. It

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Kohberger Pleads Guilty | What the Unsealed Idaho 4 Murder Files Reveal | True Crime Podcast

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Kohberger Pleads Guilty | What the Unsealed Idaho 4 Murder Files Reveal | True Crime Podcast