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August 1, 2025 54 mins


In her instant New York Times bestseller, Empire of AI, journalist Karen Hao distills more than a decade of in-depth research into a detailed account of OpenAI’s rise to power and why leadership at the company abandoned their promise to keep their research open. 


Karen joins Robb and Josh for a deep dive into murkiness surrounding what artificial general intelligence (AGI) actually represents and why AI colonialism and biased systems undercut efforts to create superintelligence that represents the vastness of human learning and experience. 


Drawing on the work of a nonprofit in New Zealand to preserve the Māori language, the trio also discuss why smaller, focused implementations that use better curated data might be more valuable to businesses trying to integrate AI into their operations.


Buy Karen Hao’s book “Empire of AI: Dreams and Nightmares in Sam Altman's OpenAI”: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/743569/empire-of-ai-by-karen-hao/


Learn more about Karen and here work: https://karendhao.com/


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—---------


The revised and second edition of our bestselling book, Age of Invisible Machines, is available now on Amazon! https://a.co/d/axLFOhX 


Episode Credits:

Robb Wilson — Resident expert

Josh Tyson — Co-host

Vishal Menon — Producer

Mykhailo Lytvynov — Audio/Video Editor & Sound Engineer

Daryna Moskovchuk — Graphic Design

Alla Slesarenko — Copy 

Vira Prykhodko — Web Development 

Elias Parker — Executive Producer


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