July 6, 2024 • 24 mins
On episode 127 of the JMB Podcast, Tim, Oz and Jesse discuss self-care and the implications of an injury while on an expedition. They also discuss planning programs for 2025. #FullTangLifestyle Photo: One of my favorite spots in the North Maine Woods. Show Notes: JMB Podcast Episode 127 Kid-Friendly? There is no profanity in this […]
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Jack Mountain Bush craft podcast
episode 127.
Welcome to the Jack Mountain Bush craft podcast.
With your host, Jack Mountain Bush craft School
founder and Master Main guide, Tim Smith. I'm
your host, Tim Smith. I'm a registered master
main guide and have been a full time
(00:21):
outdoor instructor and guide since founding the Jack
Mountain Bush craft school in 19 99.
We help people become more skilled, more knowledgeable,
more experienced and more confident in the natural
world through our Bush craft and guide training
semester programs,
and multi week canoe and Snows shoe expeditions.
You can check out the show notes to
all of our podcasts at blog dot jack
(00:43):
mt n dot com. If you're interested in
learning more about our college accredited and Gi
bill approved programs,
visit the Jack mountain Bush class school on
the web at jack mt n dot com.
And check out our online network and Digital
learning Academy at bush craft school dot com.
Hello and welcome back to the Jack Mountain
Bush craft Podcast.
(01:04):
We were court this on
Tuesday,
07/02/2024.
It's right after lunch.
We're hanging out in my kitchen, and I'm
joined by Oz and Jesse from the last
several episodes. And we're here to talk about
2 things really self care, taking care of
yourself.
And planning for 20 25 and some of
(01:26):
the implications for that.
So since we last spoke, you and I
oz had that wide ranging
philosophical discussion,
something's things happened. Yeah. Yeah. Because the universe
loves feed me my own word.
Very harsh to. No. I
decided to do the right thing and get
(01:46):
up and work out like I'm supposed to.
And, of course, I was
doing dead lifts and
something popped in my back. And that was
it. I laid on the floor in there
for probably 30 minutes
deciding whether it was gonna be 911 or
or Tim that I call.
But I ended up getting up and
(02:07):
I'm starting to move now, but I'll tell
you what,
and we'll get into it shortly. But
taking care of yourself prior to definitely helps
with
recovery and covering quickly. So... So we just
figured this would be an interesting
jumping off point to talk about,
because we've been talking about Solo Canoe
(02:27):
expedition. And and, obviously, we're always interested in
talking about guiding trips and
expeditions and what are just the implications
there. Like, I've had my back go out
on a snows shoe trip once. Right?
I was...
We were thankfully only, like, a mile from
the from the end of the trip, and
it was at the end of the trip,
(02:48):
and I had it go out and
that was the longest mile I've ever walked.
It... I had to crawl some of it.
Took me, like, it took me to walk
a mile, the better part, like, probably 3
hours because I'd maybe get, like,
8 steps and then have to stop and
take a knee, and then could get up
and then it'd be, like, I'll do 7
this time and take a knee and it's
(03:08):
just the screaming pain, like, backs and teeth.
Right? When they hurt... You can't think of
it anything else. And you can't you can't
escape. You there... There's no escape. Enough you
can't lay down and fall asleep and I'm
just gonna sleep through this pain.
You can't lay down. You... There's no comfortable
position. There's no nothing. So. It's
unbelievably bad. Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine snows
(03:30):
shooting. It was awful. Like I'm still in
my shy when I think about that trip,
like, oh,
kinda get the the He.
So,
I guess, yeah. We're from the perspective of
a guide, you know, your response abilities is
number 1,
do you have the the skills that are
you equipped to help someone who is
(03:52):
in that situation. Right? Say someone has a
back go out, and we've had it.
I think it was the canoe expedition. A
couple of years ago. We had that happen
twice. Basically 2 Yeah. 2 men broke their
bodies in the middle of the North Main
woods.
And I'll never forget the the first guy,
Good friend of mine,
shout out to Colin Clifford.
(04:13):
We were loading boats. Colin. Was it the
last day? Yeah. It was. It was the
last day of the trip we're loading boats
and we're above All falls.
We were at Taylor landing.
And he was lifting a heavy piece of
gear and twisting to put it in a
boat and I just saw him, like, I
just saw his face, and I was like,
this isn't good.
So he... I don't remember what he did.
(04:35):
He really tweaked it. So whenever that happens
on trips,
that person
unless it's me, gets to ride in the
bow of my boat, And I remember just
telling them, don't move. Don't try to paddle.
Just just sit there and try to make
yourself as comfortable as possible.
And we had to... We created, like, a
make shift crotch form so he could kinda
(04:55):
h around all falls. And I think we
did that... I think I had to take
an extra
2 trips that on that carry, because all
of his his boat, his gear and stuff.
So it was probably 5 trips that I
was making on that carry, and I still
think I finished the fifth 1 before he
made it to the end because he was
moving so slow. Yeah. He was he was
(05:16):
hurt. And that's just a hard thing to
watch. Right? You know, like, every breath, even
it hurts to breathe, every breath is
pain in misery. I think everyone understands though
back pain, and it's 1 of those pains
that you... It's easy to give empathy for
because we've all kind of experienced it and
it's not
It's not 1 of those pains that people
will
(05:37):
will lie about often because you... When it's
real, you know you can see it. Yeah.
It's real.
Can't stand up straight. Right. So
it's
it's definitely 1 of those pains that you're
like, okay. This is acceptable boy.
You know, I'll I'll pick up this guy's
stuff. So... Yeah.
(05:58):
So in that situation, all we were able
to do was to make him as comfortable
as possible and get him out of the
woods. I don't know what would have happened
if we were further
remote, you know, let's say if that happened
on a more remote trip than the All.
I mean, the All is remote, but there's
a couple of bridges inter first throughout the
trip. And if you know where they are.
There's ranger stations and they have radios. And
(06:21):
I think that was the year. We had...
That was the first year. We had a
set
cater on the trip. So there's always that
option as well to radio out or to
send a text through the satellite stuff. But,
yeah. There... It's a hard thing
to deal with. And I think maybe
that would be a good thing to figure
out, you know, for, like, the... Any medical
course. Because that's a thing that's not
(06:43):
unlikely to happen, you know, someone has a
back. Issue especially a lot of people, middle
aged people who tend to go on guided
trips a lot of them are showing up
with a lot of pre trauma and, you
know, being able to manage that.
I think would be a good thing. Also,
as as the guide. Right? And that's what
Jesse was
bringing up earlier today was,
(07:05):
what if it happens to you, And you're
guiding?
Yeah. Well, we know and you're for me.
Yeah. Exactly. Thanks James the end of the
trip. Yeah. So
So so knowing how to... I think number
1,
recognize warning signs,
you know, for me, I know. I've only
had my back, like, really bother me 2
(07:25):
or 3 times in the past over the
course of my life. But I know it's
much more likely to happen if I get
dehydrated If you're being lazy your own camp,
just drinking coffee, not hammer in the water,
probably much more likely to have it at
sword.
Sense. And also, I think the idea of
maintenance rather than trying to fix it once
it's broken. Yes. So the idea of, like,
(07:46):
taking care of your core
muscle groups. You know, if you're lifting something
heavy, do it do it with proper form,
And I I think that's what's helping with
my recovery is I usually wake up first
thing in the morning, and I do usually
stretch for about 30 minutes.
Depending on how I feel. So I feel
like I get a lot of movement
(08:08):
in my spine and
and and in general. So
yesterday when I hurt myself, I immediately just
started going into those stretches, and I probably
stretched altogether for probably 8 hours yes today.
And I think that's why when I woke
up this morning, I I felt.
Easily 50 percent better is just
I think my body is used to
(08:30):
moving, and it didn't lock up. Right? And
also just
when you eat a proper diet, you don't
have as much information. Which isn't going to
lock in those issues in in your spine
or in your muscles because you're not gonna
fight inflammation as much that eventually is gonna
relax and then everything can kinda
be adjusted back into where it needs to
go. So
(08:51):
I say that, but who knows how probably
crawling
tomorrow morning, but what we'll see We'll see.
Tough to say. Right? You never know. It
makes me think how, like, the small injuries
that you get when you're learning this stuff
can be
really good teachers actually. Like, the the guy
that cut his hand,
last week he's probably gonna be you know,
it's gonna be months before he ever cuts
himself again because he's gonna be so much
(09:12):
more Yes. Aware and conscious. Yes.
Yes. I think that's also
for me, it was realizing, oh, I'm 44
years old.
My back just went out. Outright? So
being aware of not only your skill level,
but, like, how old you are, And maybe
how well you can see or how well
(09:33):
you could still lift things or
just taking into account,
I am more real,
look at your skill level or your strength
or whatever. So... Yeah. I have a saying
that these guys get tired of hearing, and
can they hear a lot when we're canoe
that we're gonna control everything that we can
control. There's certain things if we're in the
(09:55):
wilderness, we're on a remote river. There's a
there's a lot. That we can't control and
1 of the ways to mitigate all that
unknown is to a hundred percent control the
things that we can control.
So, you know, part of that with regards
to knowing your own body,
just knowing how hard you can push And
again, recognizing some of the danger signals before
(10:18):
before there's an episode,
I think would be good, but you know,
and in thinking about, like, Solo canoe tripping,
man, that would be hard if you were
literally on your own on a trip and
maybe you pushed a little too hard. Got
a little dehydrated,
trying to lift the boat up. But, like,
you know, lifting a canoe on your shoulders
a big heavy boat. Yeah. That's a significant
(10:38):
risk for a back. And that's 1 of
the reasons why we spend so much time
working on proper form with that skill set
in particular
because what we see
Excuse me. Young young people, young guys, especially
when you're young and strong, you think, form
doesn't matter.
But then if you build those bad habits
(10:58):
eventually, that's probably gonna come back and bite
you. Yeah. So that's something that we can
control that that, you know, that we need
to control. I couldn't imagine. I could not
imagine.
That
feeling of being remote and knowing, oh, no.
My bet... Like,
setting up your tent. Yeah. I think like,
(11:18):
setting up or if it's raining, just putting
up a tarp, we're tying a ridge line.
I don't know
if I would've have been able to accomplish
that yesterday. Right? I I mean, I... Obviously,
I would have. Right? But there would have
been times. I probably am doing so of
my teeth. They're crawling on the ground or...
Right? So... Yeah. And the literature is foldable
of old stories like that like guys who
(11:40):
you know, they found them dead in a
wall and they had burned every, like, every
stick that they could crawl and get and
eventually, they, like, had cash money and they
burned some of it and, like, like, there's...
Like... Because it's not it's not worth anything
go with that point. Yeah. There's a whole
section in true North where he's talking about,
like bad things that had happened and then
they found the guys who would died on
(12:00):
the trail, like... And it's pretty gruesome. It
sound... Doesn't sound like a nice way to
go. Yeah. But
yeah. Just understanding the risks,
and we're talking about back pain here, but
we could be talking about any
any injury. Like, say if you're
you're not paying attention with your ass and
you get a gl blow and you slice
into the side of your foot or something.
(12:22):
Cool. You know, that's another thing, how are
you're gonna manage that. So Yeah. Just the...
If you're gonna be solo
and or you're gonna be remote, like,
safety has to be
job number to right behind selfie. It's gotta
be way upon it. And I think that's
1 of the focuses of the solo course
will really be on. That's why it's not
(12:43):
such a focus on the trip as much
as it's a focus on the skills, knowing
that I actually know these things. Right? Being
aware of
not only my body, but, like, my skill
level before I go out. If I
if I am super strong, but I don't
know anything about tripping
might not go well for me. Right? But
if I
(13:04):
know a lot about tripping, but I'm not
strong and I haven't
trained at all that might not go well
for me. Right? So there has to be
that balance and you as a
mature person have to know what your capabilities
are and and
you know, how to mitigate those things when
they do go wrong.
Yeah. A realistic self assessment.
(13:25):
I think we have... We're trained by Hollywood
in our culture where people will
watch the movie and, you know, like, if
it's a bad survival movie the heroes out,
and oh, he's almost freezing to death, and
he can't get the fire lit and then
just 1 last grunt and burst of effort,
and he finally gets it done and the
day is saved, and that's not how the
real world works. No. That's where he's dead.
(13:46):
So
But I think because we're so brain by
those, like, hero films and, like, superhero movies,
And remember out there in podcast podcasts land
a superhero was just a hero who's that
much better he's super.
Sometimes my wife mad at me. I take
a blanket. I put it on his shoulders.
I ask her if she's super mad at
(14:07):
me now.
And then you take a blanket
that you're living the dog. I was right.
But, yeah. A realistic
assessment of your
skills, your your physicality, the
strength you bring with the table,
(14:28):
Those things are just invaluable.
Like, you can... I think we can get
away with lying to ourselves a lot in
the modern world, Like, yeah. I'm pretty good
at that. I'm I'm okay at that. But
then when you're out in the especially when
you're by yourself, and you got nobody you
can call, like,
better to be honest at that point rather
than absolutely face the consequences
in in that same vein of honesty. So
(14:50):
after hurting myself yesterday doing the right thing.
I realized
I should just take up drinking, and then
I'll never get hurt and then we'll be
good. So then person the car accident news
drunk is always the. I mean. I'll be
relaxed. Yeah. There you go. Good.
Well, I'll I'll... My next trip to town,
I'll get 20 pounds of sugar and we'll
get great on we go. There we go.
(15:13):
I I feel like I have learned a
lot about this, like, using
your energy wisely by watching old timers on
the trail, like, people in their seventies and
eighties, who you meet on some river and
just seeing how, you know, they are aware
of their limitations. If you're 80 and and
you're on a remote.
Canoe trip, like, you have to be way
more careful. And that... Just... There's so much
(15:35):
less ego,
Yeah. So I aspire to Yeah. Trip more,
like a, like an 80 year old, I
guess,
like, less heroic and more
you know, when you don't have something to
prove.
Yeah. You're dead safer. That's a tough 1.
That's a tough 1. Because, you know, there's
some of us that we we see those
(15:56):
ribs or we see that drop when we
go.
I could probably do that.
Totally.
I should be alright.
Yeah. That's a tough 1. That's tough to
rain that in.
But even if it's not even specific to
tripping, like, you watch an old guy who
swung an axis whole life. Like, just the
(16:16):
efficiency of motion emotion, like, no wasted emotions,
no wasted energy. You know you've got, like,
a hundred x energy units that you can
put out that day and do it again
tomorrow. So if you're, like, a knuckle head,
and you're gonna try to do 501 a
hundred your limit. You're gonna pay the price.
Mh. So watching those guys do. What work
with any hand tool. We were talking about
(16:38):
Dick Pre early today, the guy from the
alone and the wilderness
books and and movies.
And just watching him, you know, do the
work with the handles in the video. It's
just kinda magical. Was skilled. No wasted
motion. And if you've ever heard a Dick
P,
when I lived in Alaska in the mid
19 nineties, he was alive, and he was
a friend of a friend. He lived right
(16:58):
across from where Island lived right across Cook
inlet, and I wrote him a letter, and
he wrote me back, and I still have
hard copy of the letter, I pulled it
out and showed a couple of the guys
the other day.
And if you Google like Dick P letter,
think it comes up first. I scanned it,
and it's on that jack blog. So if
you ever wanna read it and you're not
here.
Yeah. But, basically, I was writing in... I
(17:19):
think I was 24
25 at the time. And I said, you
know, I'm really interested in kinda living remotely
somewhere.
Do you have any advice for a young
man and he says, well.
Kid
the woods aren't going anywhere. Like, don't be
in such a rush to run away and
live in a remote cab somewhere and good
advice. Thank you, sir.
I think I maybe took it. But now
(17:41):
I'm about the age that he was when
he went up there. So maybe I'm looking
further a afield now I'd be like, okay.
Yeah. Maybe knows my time.
But there's never time for that. So
probably won't be doing that. Yeah. You schedule
getting through. Schedule gets busier every year. So
we're... I'm currently scheduling for 20 25.
(18:03):
And had been going back and forth with
email someone who wants to jump on the
6 month expedition instructor,
training course. So I just redid that whole
page today. We should have a whole 20
25 schedule here up and ready to be
peru like, all the big courses, all the
immersion courses are currently
scheduled. I don't have them on the calendar
(18:23):
yet, but those dates are locked in, and
then I'm just kinda f with some of
the
some of the smaller things.
But it's funny the last 2 years or
so, we've just seen a huge uptick in
interest in the immersion programs, and... I'm not
sure what it is or why or if
we're on some list somewhere or something, but
next year, we're gonna go back to how
(18:44):
we did things
before the 2 most recent years where
instead of a summer semester and a fall
semester, we'll have spring semester that starts early
when it's cold,
and we'll call that. The hard start because
it's a bit more challenging than say starting
when it's Well, challenging for different reasons, but
it's I think it's probably harder to start
(19:05):
when it's hot and buggy, like it has
been
this course.
And then we'll have the move the canoe
expedition back to the summertime time, and then
we we've got the fall semester is always
about the same time frame and has been
since
2003
when we kinda started that 1. So.
Maybe it was 2002 even. But...
(19:28):
And that's the the big picture. So the
the other thing about the the 6 month
long program. We had a question recently. We've
got it on the web is 6 continuous
months out here, and we've set it up
that way so that people could minimize their
travel time. We're not close to anything.
And sometimes people come from overseas to do
a program like this and
if it saves him from having to buy
(19:49):
an extra thousand dollar plane ticket all the
better, but it doesn't have to be done
that way. It's a series of phases. So
phase 1 of the
expedition structure program is to take the 9
week semester course and get your journey insert.
Stage 2 is to take the 4 week
canoe expedition and get your en level 1
and 2
(20:10):
guiding
certifications through us. And then stage 3 is
p gum, and that can either be going
out and living with a very low baseline
or
planning and doing a solo trip. But something
where you're out on the land actually doing
it living the life. And then stage 4,
people come back to the field school and
work as a teaching assistant on
(20:32):
the Wilderness bush craft semester course
and
get what we're calling now the level 3...
I'm sorry. The level 2 journey insert, which
is where they kind of understand the back
end about how the programs are run, and,
you know, learn something useful about marketing a
program
and
all the record keeping and everything that goes
(20:52):
on so that they could potentially be
super useful to somebody running a program or
start their own. But that's that's it in
a nutshell.
And we... Actually, it's probably better for people
to not try to do it all in
6 months because it's a lot, Like, people
get overwhelmed
reasonably
quickly because every day we're it and every
(21:13):
day we're working hard and, you know, the
takes a toll on the body. I think
you and I were talking last
podcast oz about, you know, people tend to
have get injuries develop injuries, old injuries come
back to Haunt them. Maybe the demons they
thought they were gonna leave behind somewhere else.
We'll... They'll follow you right up here. I
can guarantee you that. Absolutely... Because, I mean,
we're on Google Maps.
(21:35):
Any even most demons know how to use
Google maps. I I will say the 1
thing I did like about spending
the entire time here was the seeing the
changing seasons. Yeah. And then watching the plants
as they change through the season right, and
I think that helped a lot with my
familiarity.
I don't know if just being able to
(21:55):
see the season changes, we're we're really nice.
So if you do break it up, maybe
try to try to hit each season if
you can.
Yeah. But just,
basically, I was fielding questions on the Internet
if that was an option. And, yes, it's
definitely an option. The other change that we've
made in the last 2 years
when we first published that Xi page. It's
(22:16):
something we have been doing form for at
least 10 or 15 years. But when we
first published it, we listed the tuition when
you added up all of the component parts
of the course. And I think people thought
that they needed to pay all that tuition
upfront, and that's actually a bad idea. It
makes it more of a hassle for us,
especially if somebody has to drop out the
for any reason, you know, then there's all
(22:38):
that just all the hassle that comes along
it. So the way that we register people
for that is a course at a time.
So if phase 1, if you're starting that
starting down that road, phase 1 is just
register for the,
1 of the semester courses.
And then you just let us know. It's
a small course. We all get really familiar
with with each other by about day 2.
(22:58):
You just let us know that, hey, that's
what I'm interested in doing, and we say
great. And encourage you and work with you.
But you don't have to sign up and
send us, like, a big lump sum payment
for the whole thing. So maybe 2, you
know, for example, it
there's always the possibility that maybe you were
gonna do the semester, and then the canoe
4 week canoe expedition immediately afterwards, but maybe
(23:19):
you got hurt, and maybe you can't do
that till next year. And then it's just
easier for us if we don't have to
do refunds and stuff, you know, if somebody
needs to drop out. So so there's that.
So we've got those 2 things
or that thing, the the 20 25
expedition instructor dates are on the web, and
we'll have the rest of the dates for
(23:39):
for next year,
pretty quick here.
I think that's about all we've got. We've
got a busy afternoon plan with these guys
to go through background studies on fish and
mammals and do a navigation review with map
and compass. So,
yeah. We got about
11 minutes to
take down there.
So, anyway, thank you for listening.
(24:02):
If you wanna send oz a care package
for his back,
just get a couple of crisp 50 dollar
bills and you can mail them to me
the addresses on the website, and I'll I'll
make sure he get some. Just laying right
on my bat. We'll be clear.
Thanks for listening, and hope you have a
great day. Take care. Take care.
(24:29):
You have been listening to the Jack Mountain
Bush craft podcast.
For more information on our professional wilderness guide
training programs that college accredited and Gi bill
approved, visit us on the web at JACKMTN
dot com.
Welcome to the Jack Mountain Bush craft podcast
episode 127.
Welcome to the Jack Mountain Bush craft podcast.
With your host, Jack Mountain Bush craft School
founder and Master Main guide, Tim Smith. I'm
your host, Tim Smith. I'm a registered master
main guide and have been a full time
(00:21):
outdoor instructor and guide since founding the Jack
Mountain Bush craft school in 19 99.
We help people become more skilled, more knowledgeable,
more experienced and more confident in the natural
world through our Bush craft and guide training
semester programs,
and multi week canoe and Snows shoe expeditions.
You can check out the show notes to
all of our podcasts at blog dot jack
(00:43):
mt n dot com. If you're interested in
learning more about our college accredited and Gi
bill approved programs,
visit the Jack mountain Bush class school on
the web at jack mt n dot com.
And check out our online network and Digital
learning Academy at bush craft school dot com.
Hello and welcome back to the Jack Mountain
Bush craft Podcast.
(01:04):
We were court this on
Tuesday,
07/02/2024.
It's right after lunch.
We're hanging out in my kitchen, and I'm
joined by Oz and Jesse from the last
several episodes. And we're here to talk about
2 things really self care, taking care of
yourself.
And planning for 20 25 and some of
(01:26):
the implications for that.
So since we last spoke, you and I
oz had that wide ranging
philosophical discussion,
something's things happened. Yeah. Yeah. Because the universe
loves feed me my own word.
Very harsh to. No. I
decided to do the right thing and get
(01:46):
up and work out like I'm supposed to.
And, of course, I was
doing dead lifts and
something popped in my back. And that was
it. I laid on the floor in there
for probably 30 minutes
deciding whether it was gonna be 911 or
or Tim that I call.
But I ended up getting up and
(02:07):
I'm starting to move now, but I'll tell
you what,
and we'll get into it shortly. But
taking care of yourself prior to definitely helps
with
recovery and covering quickly. So... So we just
figured this would be an interesting
jumping off point to talk about,
because we've been talking about Solo Canoe
(02:27):
expedition. And and, obviously, we're always interested in
talking about guiding trips and
expeditions and what are just the implications
there. Like, I've had my back go out
on a snows shoe trip once. Right?
I was...
We were thankfully only, like, a mile from
the from the end of the trip, and
it was at the end of the trip,
(02:48):
and I had it go out and
that was the longest mile I've ever walked.
It... I had to crawl some of it.
Took me, like, it took me to walk
a mile, the better part, like, probably 3
hours because I'd maybe get, like,
8 steps and then have to stop and
take a knee, and then could get up
and then it'd be, like, I'll do 7
this time and take a knee and it's
(03:08):
just the screaming pain, like, backs and teeth.
Right? When they hurt... You can't think of
it anything else. And you can't you can't
escape. You there... There's no escape. Enough you
can't lay down and fall asleep and I'm
just gonna sleep through this pain.
You can't lay down. You... There's no comfortable
position. There's no nothing. So. It's
unbelievably bad. Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine snows
(03:30):
shooting. It was awful. Like I'm still in
my shy when I think about that trip,
like, oh,
kinda get the the He.
So,
I guess, yeah. We're from the perspective of
a guide, you know, your response abilities is
number 1,
do you have the the skills that are
you equipped to help someone who is
(03:52):
in that situation. Right? Say someone has a
back go out, and we've had it.
I think it was the canoe expedition. A
couple of years ago. We had that happen
twice. Basically 2 Yeah. 2 men broke their
bodies in the middle of the North Main
woods.
And I'll never forget the the first guy,
Good friend of mine,
shout out to Colin Clifford.
(04:13):
We were loading boats. Colin. Was it the
last day? Yeah. It was. It was the
last day of the trip we're loading boats
and we're above All falls.
We were at Taylor landing.
And he was lifting a heavy piece of
gear and twisting to put it in a
boat and I just saw him, like, I
just saw his face, and I was like,
this isn't good.
So he... I don't remember what he did.
(04:35):
He really tweaked it. So whenever that happens
on trips,
that person
unless it's me, gets to ride in the
bow of my boat, And I remember just
telling them, don't move. Don't try to paddle.
Just just sit there and try to make
yourself as comfortable as possible.
And we had to... We created, like, a
make shift crotch form so he could kinda
(04:55):
h around all falls. And I think we
did that... I think I had to take
an extra
2 trips that on that carry, because all
of his his boat, his gear and stuff.
So it was probably 5 trips that I
was making on that carry, and I still
think I finished the fifth 1 before he
made it to the end because he was
moving so slow. Yeah. He was he was
(05:16):
hurt. And that's just a hard thing to
watch. Right? You know, like, every breath, even
it hurts to breathe, every breath is
pain in misery. I think everyone understands though
back pain, and it's 1 of those pains
that you... It's easy to give empathy for
because we've all kind of experienced it and
it's not
It's not 1 of those pains that people
will
(05:37):
will lie about often because you... When it's
real, you know you can see it. Yeah.
It's real.
Can't stand up straight. Right. So
it's
it's definitely 1 of those pains that you're
like, okay. This is acceptable boy.
You know, I'll I'll pick up this guy's
stuff. So... Yeah.
(05:58):
So in that situation, all we were able
to do was to make him as comfortable
as possible and get him out of the
woods. I don't know what would have happened
if we were further
remote, you know, let's say if that happened
on a more remote trip than the All.
I mean, the All is remote, but there's
a couple of bridges inter first throughout the
trip. And if you know where they are.
There's ranger stations and they have radios. And
(06:21):
I think that was the year. We had...
That was the first year. We had a
set
cater on the trip. So there's always that
option as well to radio out or to
send a text through the satellite stuff. But,
yeah. There... It's a hard thing
to deal with. And I think maybe
that would be a good thing to figure
out, you know, for, like, the... Any medical
course. Because that's a thing that's not
(06:43):
unlikely to happen, you know, someone has a
back. Issue especially a lot of people, middle
aged people who tend to go on guided
trips a lot of them are showing up
with a lot of pre trauma and, you
know, being able to manage that.
I think would be a good thing. Also,
as as the guide. Right? And that's what
Jesse was
bringing up earlier today was,
(07:05):
what if it happens to you, And you're
guiding?
Yeah. Well, we know and you're for me.
Yeah. Exactly. Thanks James the end of the
trip. Yeah. So
So so knowing how to... I think number
1,
recognize warning signs,
you know, for me, I know. I've only
had my back, like, really bother me 2
(07:25):
or 3 times in the past over the
course of my life. But I know it's
much more likely to happen if I get
dehydrated If you're being lazy your own camp,
just drinking coffee, not hammer in the water,
probably much more likely to have it at
sword.
Sense. And also, I think the idea of
maintenance rather than trying to fix it once
it's broken. Yes. So the idea of, like,
(07:46):
taking care of your core
muscle groups. You know, if you're lifting something
heavy, do it do it with proper form,
And I I think that's what's helping with
my recovery is I usually wake up first
thing in the morning, and I do usually
stretch for about 30 minutes.
Depending on how I feel. So I feel
like I get a lot of movement
(08:08):
in my spine and
and and in general. So
yesterday when I hurt myself, I immediately just
started going into those stretches, and I probably
stretched altogether for probably 8 hours yes today.
And I think that's why when I woke
up this morning, I I felt.
Easily 50 percent better is just
I think my body is used to
(08:30):
moving, and it didn't lock up. Right? And
also just
when you eat a proper diet, you don't
have as much information. Which isn't going to
lock in those issues in in your spine
or in your muscles because you're not gonna
fight inflammation as much that eventually is gonna
relax and then everything can kinda
be adjusted back into where it needs to
go. So
(08:51):
I say that, but who knows how probably
crawling
tomorrow morning, but what we'll see We'll see.
Tough to say. Right? You never know. It
makes me think how, like, the small injuries
that you get when you're learning this stuff
can be
really good teachers actually. Like, the the guy
that cut his hand,
last week he's probably gonna be you know,
it's gonna be months before he ever cuts
himself again because he's gonna be so much
(09:12):
more Yes. Aware and conscious. Yes.
Yes. I think that's also
for me, it was realizing, oh, I'm 44
years old.
My back just went out. Outright? So
being aware of not only your skill level,
but, like, how old you are, And maybe
how well you can see or how well
(09:33):
you could still lift things or
just taking into account,
I am more real,
look at your skill level or your strength
or whatever. So... Yeah. I have a saying
that these guys get tired of hearing, and
can they hear a lot when we're canoe
that we're gonna control everything that we can
control. There's certain things if we're in the
(09:55):
wilderness, we're on a remote river. There's a
there's a lot. That we can't control and
1 of the ways to mitigate all that
unknown is to a hundred percent control the
things that we can control.
So, you know, part of that with regards
to knowing your own body,
just knowing how hard you can push And
again, recognizing some of the danger signals before
(10:18):
before there's an episode,
I think would be good, but you know,
and in thinking about, like, Solo canoe tripping,
man, that would be hard if you were
literally on your own on a trip and
maybe you pushed a little too hard. Got
a little dehydrated,
trying to lift the boat up. But, like,
you know, lifting a canoe on your shoulders
a big heavy boat. Yeah. That's a significant
(10:38):
risk for a back. And that's 1 of
the reasons why we spend so much time
working on proper form with that skill set
in particular
because what we see
Excuse me. Young young people, young guys, especially
when you're young and strong, you think, form
doesn't matter.
But then if you build those bad habits
(10:58):
eventually, that's probably gonna come back and bite
you. Yeah. So that's something that we can
control that that, you know, that we need
to control. I couldn't imagine. I could not
imagine.
That
feeling of being remote and knowing, oh, no.
My bet... Like,
setting up your tent. Yeah. I think like,
(11:18):
setting up or if it's raining, just putting
up a tarp, we're tying a ridge line.
I don't know
if I would've have been able to accomplish
that yesterday. Right? I I mean, I... Obviously,
I would have. Right? But there would have
been times. I probably am doing so of
my teeth. They're crawling on the ground or...
Right? So... Yeah. And the literature is foldable
of old stories like that like guys who
(11:40):
you know, they found them dead in a
wall and they had burned every, like, every
stick that they could crawl and get and
eventually, they, like, had cash money and they
burned some of it and, like, like, there's...
Like... Because it's not it's not worth anything
go with that point. Yeah. There's a whole
section in true North where he's talking about,
like bad things that had happened and then
they found the guys who would died on
(12:00):
the trail, like... And it's pretty gruesome. It
sound... Doesn't sound like a nice way to
go. Yeah. But
yeah. Just understanding the risks,
and we're talking about back pain here, but
we could be talking about any
any injury. Like, say if you're
you're not paying attention with your ass and
you get a gl blow and you slice
into the side of your foot or something.
(12:22):
Cool. You know, that's another thing, how are
you're gonna manage that. So Yeah. Just the...
If you're gonna be solo
and or you're gonna be remote, like,
safety has to be
job number to right behind selfie. It's gotta
be way upon it. And I think that's
1 of the focuses of the solo course
will really be on. That's why it's not
(12:43):
such a focus on the trip as much
as it's a focus on the skills, knowing
that I actually know these things. Right? Being
aware of
not only my body, but, like, my skill
level before I go out. If I
if I am super strong, but I don't
know anything about tripping
might not go well for me. Right? But
if I
(13:04):
know a lot about tripping, but I'm not
strong and I haven't
trained at all that might not go well
for me. Right? So there has to be
that balance and you as a
mature person have to know what your capabilities
are and and
you know, how to mitigate those things when
they do go wrong.
Yeah. A realistic self assessment.
(13:25):
I think we have... We're trained by Hollywood
in our culture where people will
watch the movie and, you know, like, if
it's a bad survival movie the heroes out,
and oh, he's almost freezing to death, and
he can't get the fire lit and then
just 1 last grunt and burst of effort,
and he finally gets it done and the
day is saved, and that's not how the
real world works. No. That's where he's dead.
(13:46):
So
But I think because we're so brain by
those, like, hero films and, like, superhero movies,
And remember out there in podcast podcasts land
a superhero was just a hero who's that
much better he's super.
Sometimes my wife mad at me. I take
a blanket. I put it on his shoulders.
I ask her if she's super mad at
(14:07):
me now.
And then you take a blanket
that you're living the dog. I was right.
But, yeah. A realistic
assessment of your
skills, your your physicality, the
strength you bring with the table,
(14:28):
Those things are just invaluable.
Like, you can... I think we can get
away with lying to ourselves a lot in
the modern world, Like, yeah. I'm pretty good
at that. I'm I'm okay at that. But
then when you're out in the especially when
you're by yourself, and you got nobody you
can call, like,
better to be honest at that point rather
than absolutely face the consequences
in in that same vein of honesty. So
(14:50):
after hurting myself yesterday doing the right thing.
I realized
I should just take up drinking, and then
I'll never get hurt and then we'll be
good. So then person the car accident news
drunk is always the. I mean. I'll be
relaxed. Yeah. There you go. Good.
Well, I'll I'll... My next trip to town,
I'll get 20 pounds of sugar and we'll
get great on we go. There we go.
(15:13):
I I feel like I have learned a
lot about this, like, using
your energy wisely by watching old timers on
the trail, like, people in their seventies and
eighties, who you meet on some river and
just seeing how, you know, they are aware
of their limitations. If you're 80 and and
you're on a remote.
Canoe trip, like, you have to be way
more careful. And that... Just... There's so much
(15:35):
less ego,
Yeah. So I aspire to Yeah. Trip more,
like a, like an 80 year old, I
guess,
like, less heroic and more
you know, when you don't have something to
prove.
Yeah. You're dead safer. That's a tough 1.
That's a tough 1. Because, you know, there's
some of us that we we see those
(15:56):
ribs or we see that drop when we
go.
I could probably do that.
Totally.
I should be alright.
Yeah. That's a tough 1. That's tough to
rain that in.
But even if it's not even specific to
tripping, like, you watch an old guy who
swung an axis whole life. Like, just the
(16:16):
efficiency of motion emotion, like, no wasted emotions,
no wasted energy. You know you've got, like,
a hundred x energy units that you can
put out that day and do it again
tomorrow. So if you're, like, a knuckle head,
and you're gonna try to do 501 a
hundred your limit. You're gonna pay the price.
Mh. So watching those guys do. What work
with any hand tool. We were talking about
(16:38):
Dick Pre early today, the guy from the
alone and the wilderness
books and and movies.
And just watching him, you know, do the
work with the handles in the video. It's
just kinda magical. Was skilled. No wasted
motion. And if you've ever heard a Dick
P,
when I lived in Alaska in the mid
19 nineties, he was alive, and he was
a friend of a friend. He lived right
(16:58):
across from where Island lived right across Cook
inlet, and I wrote him a letter, and
he wrote me back, and I still have
hard copy of the letter, I pulled it
out and showed a couple of the guys
the other day.
And if you Google like Dick P letter,
think it comes up first. I scanned it,
and it's on that jack blog. So if
you ever wanna read it and you're not
here.
Yeah. But, basically, I was writing in... I
(17:19):
think I was 24
25 at the time. And I said, you
know, I'm really interested in kinda living remotely
somewhere.
Do you have any advice for a young
man and he says, well.
Kid
the woods aren't going anywhere. Like, don't be
in such a rush to run away and
live in a remote cab somewhere and good
advice. Thank you, sir.
I think I maybe took it. But now
(17:41):
I'm about the age that he was when
he went up there. So maybe I'm looking
further a afield now I'd be like, okay.
Yeah. Maybe knows my time.
But there's never time for that. So
probably won't be doing that. Yeah. You schedule
getting through. Schedule gets busier every year. So
we're... I'm currently scheduling for 20 25.
(18:03):
And had been going back and forth with
email someone who wants to jump on the
6 month expedition instructor,
training course. So I just redid that whole
page today. We should have a whole 20
25 schedule here up and ready to be
peru like, all the big courses, all the
immersion courses are currently
scheduled. I don't have them on the calendar
(18:23):
yet, but those dates are locked in, and
then I'm just kinda f with some of
the
some of the smaller things.
But it's funny the last 2 years or
so, we've just seen a huge uptick in
interest in the immersion programs, and... I'm not
sure what it is or why or if
we're on some list somewhere or something, but
next year, we're gonna go back to how
(18:44):
we did things
before the 2 most recent years where
instead of a summer semester and a fall
semester, we'll have spring semester that starts early
when it's cold,
and we'll call that. The hard start because
it's a bit more challenging than say starting
when it's Well, challenging for different reasons, but
it's I think it's probably harder to start
(19:05):
when it's hot and buggy, like it has
been
this course.
And then we'll have the move the canoe
expedition back to the summertime time, and then
we we've got the fall semester is always
about the same time frame and has been
since
2003
when we kinda started that 1. So.
Maybe it was 2002 even. But...
(19:28):
And that's the the big picture. So the
the other thing about the the 6 month
long program. We had a question recently. We've
got it on the web is 6 continuous
months out here, and we've set it up
that way so that people could minimize their
travel time. We're not close to anything.
And sometimes people come from overseas to do
a program like this and
if it saves him from having to buy
(19:49):
an extra thousand dollar plane ticket all the
better, but it doesn't have to be done
that way. It's a series of phases. So
phase 1 of the
expedition structure program is to take the 9
week semester course and get your journey insert.
Stage 2 is to take the 4 week
canoe expedition and get your en level 1
and 2
(20:10):
guiding
certifications through us. And then stage 3 is
p gum, and that can either be going
out and living with a very low baseline
or
planning and doing a solo trip. But something
where you're out on the land actually doing
it living the life. And then stage 4,
people come back to the field school and
work as a teaching assistant on
(20:32):
the Wilderness bush craft semester course
and
get what we're calling now the level 3...
I'm sorry. The level 2 journey insert, which
is where they kind of understand the back
end about how the programs are run, and,
you know, learn something useful about marketing a
program
and
all the record keeping and everything that goes
(20:52):
on so that they could potentially be
super useful to somebody running a program or
start their own. But that's that's it in
a nutshell.
And we... Actually, it's probably better for people
to not try to do it all in
6 months because it's a lot, Like, people
get overwhelmed
reasonably
quickly because every day we're it and every
(21:13):
day we're working hard and, you know, the
takes a toll on the body. I think
you and I were talking last
podcast oz about, you know, people tend to
have get injuries develop injuries, old injuries come
back to Haunt them. Maybe the demons they
thought they were gonna leave behind somewhere else.
We'll... They'll follow you right up here. I
can guarantee you that. Absolutely... Because, I mean,
we're on Google Maps.
(21:35):
Any even most demons know how to use
Google maps. I I will say the 1
thing I did like about spending
the entire time here was the seeing the
changing seasons. Yeah. And then watching the plants
as they change through the season right, and
I think that helped a lot with my
familiarity.
I don't know if just being able to
(21:55):
see the season changes, we're we're really nice.
So if you do break it up, maybe
try to try to hit each season if
you can.
Yeah. But just,
basically, I was fielding questions on the Internet
if that was an option. And, yes, it's
definitely an option. The other change that we've
made in the last 2 years
when we first published that Xi page. It's
(22:16):
something we have been doing form for at
least 10 or 15 years. But when we
first published it, we listed the tuition when
you added up all of the component parts
of the course. And I think people thought
that they needed to pay all that tuition
upfront, and that's actually a bad idea. It
makes it more of a hassle for us,
especially if somebody has to drop out the
for any reason, you know, then there's all
(22:38):
that just all the hassle that comes along
it. So the way that we register people
for that is a course at a time.
So if phase 1, if you're starting that
starting down that road, phase 1 is just
register for the,
1 of the semester courses.
And then you just let us know. It's
a small course. We all get really familiar
with with each other by about day 2.
(22:58):
You just let us know that, hey, that's
what I'm interested in doing, and we say
great. And encourage you and work with you.
But you don't have to sign up and
send us, like, a big lump sum payment
for the whole thing. So maybe 2, you
know, for example, it
there's always the possibility that maybe you were
gonna do the semester, and then the canoe
4 week canoe expedition immediately afterwards, but maybe
(23:19):
you got hurt, and maybe you can't do
that till next year. And then it's just
easier for us if we don't have to
do refunds and stuff, you know, if somebody
needs to drop out. So so there's that.
So we've got those 2 things
or that thing, the the 20 25
expedition instructor dates are on the web, and
we'll have the rest of the dates for
(23:39):
for next year,
pretty quick here.
I think that's about all we've got. We've
got a busy afternoon plan with these guys
to go through background studies on fish and
mammals and do a navigation review with map
and compass. So,
yeah. We got about
11 minutes to
take down there.
So, anyway, thank you for listening.
(24:02):
If you wanna send oz a care package
for his back,
just get a couple of crisp 50 dollar
bills and you can mail them to me
the addresses on the website, and I'll I'll
make sure he get some. Just laying right
on my bat. We'll be clear.
Thanks for listening, and hope you have a
great day. Take care. Take care.
(24:29):
You have been listening to the Jack Mountain
Bush craft podcast.
For more information on our professional wilderness guide
training programs that college accredited and Gi bill
approved, visit us on the web at JACKMTN
dot com.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.