May 1, 2024 • 48 mins
In this episode of Taboo Talk with Jay Lowder, Jay is joined by Andrea Waitley. Jay and Andrea discuss navigating trials, suffering, and trying to understand God's timing. In this podcast they talk about things we have all dealt with at one point or another- wanting immediate answers from God, wanting what feels like ongoing suffering to end, and so much more. Andrea shares an inspiring testimony of learning to trust God, even through the things that seem so unbearable at times. Andrea has written a devotional, and to purchase it you can email andreawaitley@gmail.com.
To follow Andrea's facebook page you can find her at: Cross My Heart Ministry - (3) Facebook
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(00:00):
Are you not entertained?
(00:05):
Get busy living, or get busy dying.
All we have to decide is what to dowith the time that is given to us.
Well, welcome to this week's editionof taboo talk with Jay Louder.
I want to set the table a littlebit about our guest today.
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So, um, Sharonda, many ofyou heard Sharonda, she's
done some podcasts with me.
She's been a member of the harvest teamfor gosh, I don't know, 14, 15 years.
And Sharonda lost hermother a few months ago.
And it was very surprising matter of fact,her mother was at church and unexpectedly
had a heart attack and passed away.
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And so of course, it's been a difficulttime and trying time for her and her
family and her father, who is a preacherand, and Andrea, in a minute, you may
have to clarify some of this, but.
He was somewhere and I believe he met you.
Did he not end Andrea?
He met you somewhere.
Is that correct?
He met a friend, he met a friend of mine.
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Okay.
And, and she was the onethat gave him the book.
Is that correct?
Yes, that's right.
Okay.
So yeah, he met a friend of Andrea'sand this friend, uh, I guess knew that
he was grieving the loss of his wife.
And gave to him a book.
And so Sharonda one daywas telling me this story.
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Now, Sharonda had not yet read this book.
It's a devotional it'scalled grace to grieve.
And I want to be honest here.
We get a lot of stuff sent to us.
Um, We get books, we get sermons.
We have people that want to handme songs that they've written to
give to some of the, um, peoplethat we know in Christian music.
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And I mean, we get bombarded with quitea few things, but this was a short little
book and my father recently passed away.
So it's been a difficulttime for our family.
My, my daughter's struggling about tohave another surgery here in a few weeks.
And so anyway, Sharonda had not yet readthe book, but she brought it in my office
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and was telling me about this devotionthat had had a huge impact on her father
.And again, because I get so many things like this, I, it's impossible
for me to read every book andto read every sermon idea and.
And every new song that I should andcould promote to people that I know,
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but I just picked it up and thought,I'm just going to peruse this book.
And I say a book, I mean, the truthof it is you could read this devotion.
Oh gosh, I don't know.
You could probably read the whole thingif you just read it through in 30 minutes.
But I just randomly started flippingthrough it and I read something
and I said, golly, that is strong.
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And then I flipped another pagebecause sometimes somebody has
a good day, but that doesn'tmean the whole books that way.
And then I read something else and itresonated with me even more long and short
of it is, is I sit there in my office.
And I read this devotion cover to cover.
And I walked in and said, Sharonda, youhave got to read this knowing that she
was grieving the loss of her mother.
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And, uh, and she knows me wellenough to know for me to be that
excited about something and.
to be that expressive aboutsomething impacting me.
And I said, I don't know who this lady is.
We've got to find out who she is.
And I want to buy several copies.
And so we bought severalcopies of this devotion.
And it's just, you know, thetruth of the matter is, is a
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lot of people are strugglingand a lot of people are hurting.
And if that's you, this devotionis something that you got to get.
So with all that being said, AndreaWatley, welcome to today's podcast.
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I apologize.
Well, I'm glad you cleared that up.
I want you to know your devotion has just,I mean, again, I, I'm at a loss for words,
some of the things that you've written.
And obviously you can tell thatyou're speaking from a heart that
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loves the Lord, but you're alsospeaking from a heart of transparency,
authenticity, and true pain and sorrow.
And before we get into that, because Iactually want to read, um, just some of
the, I mean, I could read the whole thing.
Um, and I think our, our listenerswould be really impacted by it, but
I do want to read segments of it.
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But before we get into that, justso our listeners have a little bit
of an understanding of who you are.
Andre, tell us about how old wereyou when you came to know Christ
and how did you come to know Christbefore we get too deep into this?
All right, well, Jay, at 15years old, I received the gospel.
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Prior to that,
who invested in me, uh, over andover with the scriptures, uh, with
prayer, by taking us to church,uh, a good foundation was laid.
And I watched them walk through suchhard places and, and really lean
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into the Lord, that, that, for anyof us to, life is to embrace Jesus.
Knowing the Lord, I want to give my age.
I was 15 and I'm not anymore
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that's been my journey.
Ministry now.
Ministry called Cross Mind.
Ministry called Grace to Grieve.
Ministry taken from the book.
Both ministries are the fact that weare to live our lives in such a way
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that we bring honor and glory to God.
And we, Reassure others that healways intends to do good to them.
Well, tell me this, Andre, have youalways been a writer or is this something
that's relatively new that was birthedout of the pain that you've gone through?
No, I tell you what,Jay, I love to journal.
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I love to read.
And then I've all
pen and tape
just get along and just recordthose things that he impresses on my
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six years old to be with Jesus.
Those things that you're readingwere the things that God been
to me as I greet that law.
Now, I don't want to get toofar ahead of things because I
do want to break down the story.
But was this book written, ourlisteners don't know this, but you've
actually, two husbands have died.
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Was this book actually written thedeath of the first husband or the
husband you lost about a year ago?
This one was written is this
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Well, I think that's a wonderful idea.
Andrea, oftentimes those of uswho are believers and I've even
been guilty of this in regardsto the health of my daughter.
I won't get into that today, butour listeners are well aware of it.
I've got a daughter that has an incurabledisease and we've watched her suffer.
And I even mentioned earlier, she.
She's having hip surgery.
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I mean, here she is in her earlytwenties and she's having hip
surgery as though she were an 80year old woman in just a few weeks.
And it's been very, very difficultjust watching her suffer and the
pain that she's gone through.
And the truth of it is, and let mequantify this because I know the
scripture says that God sends therain on the just and the unjust.
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And I also know that just becauseI'm a believer, does not make me
immune to pain and suffering thatI was not created for this life.
I was created for the next.
However if I'm to be completelyhonest, There has been a side of
me that even though spiritually andintellectually, I know better than this.
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There has been a side of methat has said, Lord, I've spent
my life preaching the gospel.
I've spent my life trying to serve you.
I know that I have alot of holes in my life.
I know I'm not perfect.
I know there's a lot of things thatI need to work on, but there has
been a side of me that's felt like.
God, surely, I mean, I'monly asking for one thing.
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I'm not even asking for mydaughter's disease to go away.
I'm only asking for youto stop the suffering.
And there has been a side thateven though I know it's not correct
thinking, there's been a side ofme that said, Lord, I'm sorry.
I've never told the Lord he owesme this, but the truth of it is
I have felt like he owed me this.
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Now, again, I want to clarify.
I know that what the Lord really owesme is an eternity separated from God.
I know that.
But yet the human side of me hassaid, Lord, I mean, surely I'm
just not asking for that much.
, and you could at least Stopthe suffering of my daughter.
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And there have been times that I havebeen angry at God for feeling like,
honestly, I, again, I'm, I, I hate toadmit it, but feeling as though not
necessarily that he owes me, but thisis the least that he could do for me.
And he hasn't done it andI'm having to accept it.
And again, my daughter'son a Walker right now.
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And she's going to be in awheelchair for at least three months.
So I say all that to say to you,um, you have experienced obviously
a tremendous amount of pain.
You have lost two husbands due to death.
I can't help but wonder, haveyou ever had those thoughts?
I mean, has there been aseason where you've gone,
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okay, God, I lost one husband.
Isn't that enough?
I mean, or is that not somethingthat you struggle with?
It's something I sure
he was kidney cancer.
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It was through his spot.
It's an amazing sense of humor that whenthe doctor told him, he said, Larry,
it's in your line, all your major organs.
And he looked at it and he said,well, that just plays heck with it.
Doesn't it?
And the doctor looked at him,didn't really know how, but then
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Larry said something in prayer.
He said, you know what, doc, you'remy option, but Jesus Christ is my
hope and I'll put my trust in him.
Wow.
And he did.
After he died, my bedroom matchesto heaven and in the whole
eternity, did Larry really to die?
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Jay, it got
spirit, a very quiet, yes,
to trust this God who said he loved me.
And I think that we start.
Trying to determine God's love for usbased on our circumstances and what's
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going on, rather than what God saysHis definition of love for us is.
And His definition of love is thatHe sent His Son to die in our place,
to take the punishment we deserve,to live the life we couldn't live.
And that's God's definition of love.
And one of the things that I have come torealize when I want to kick against all
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these hard places and these hard thingsis the Lord's begun to teach me, says,
would you trust a love that loves youtoo much to not do everything it takes
to conform you to the image of my son?
It's just so hard though, when,when, when that building of the trust
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requires the suffering of someone else.
It is.
Seriously, Lord, you wantme to watch this child?
So know that there are times thatGod asks us to step into the place of
identification with Him, and He shares Hisheart with us of the things that cause Him
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pain, and that cause His heart to break.
And, What you had, what you're havingto watch with your daughter is that
stepping into God is pulling youalongside himself and saying, Jay,
I'm giving you a very sacred spacewith me and showing you what's in my
heart is I watch my Children suffer.
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Yeah, it's just so hard to accept and, andobviously, I mean, you're wise beyond your
years and reading your devotion makes thatabsolutely clear and you certainly have a
lot more wisdom than I do and you're a lotmore further in your walk with the Lord.
No, but it is because what you'resaying, because I've done it.
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You, you want to go to, if you'd leave itup to me, I'd make her and I did quickly
stop, I would at least make this go away.
And I don't understand why you don't.
And, and those are the, thoseare just those hard places that
just this side of heaven, we arenever going to get to understand.
So you've gotten to a placewhere you no longer question it.
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I mean, because I'm not lost aspouse, but I would think if I lost
one, as difficult as that would be.
If I was at round two losing another,I mean, it would be very difficult for
me not to say, okay, really, becauseI mean, you talked about trusting
God and it's real easy to trust Godwhen things are going your way and
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everything's fine and the financesare fine and the family's fine, but
it's another thing, trusting God.
When the bottom falls out, it reallyis, but you know, Peter tells us that
that is how we come to the place ofknowing that this genuine is when
it's big because it's just sittingin the dock and just floating there.
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But if you get that boat out on and itdoesn't fit in his, It's not genuine.
It
is genuine, but he wants us
that we were garaged for both.
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We were both very determined
on who Jesus said he was andhave him be at the center of it.
Minister said until death do you part.
He said, yeah, in 40 or 50 years.
Well, I got just short of nine yearsand I can remember being so angry
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with God and saying I wanted 40 yearsand the Lord, he just showed me.
He said, I never promised you 40 years.
I promise you.
That you would do that marriage well,that you would live the gospel through
that marriage, and that's what we did.
And so when, uh, when the Lordbrought Frank Whateley into my
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life in a miraculous way, when hebrought Frank Whateley into my life,
Frank was 17 years older than me.
And I had been praying that, Lord, if youhave someone for me, you have to send him.
And he did.
And when Frank told me how much olderhe was than me, uh, I was, I hung up
the phone from our first conversation,and, uh, I knew I'd been praying, and
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I'd asked the Lord to give me a Boaz.
And, uh, As Frank and I talkedmore and more, I said, Lord,
he is so much older than me.
And the Lord said, youasked me for a Boaz.
And Boaz was older than Rick.
And as things progressed, andI knew the Lord was putting us
together, I said, Lord, he'sprobably going to die before I do.
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He's that much older.
He's going to die before I do.
And the Lord said, has my gracebeen sufficient with Larry?
When you lost Larry, and ofcourse it was, and he said,
don't you think it will be again?
And he was right because God cannot lie.
And I tell people a lot of times,the things I learned through Larry's
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going to be with Jesus, I know.
After Frank having gone to be withJesus, uh, it's just that having
learned it and then getting to walk inthe knowing of it, that he really, I'm
not afraid of the pain anymore, Jay.
That's right.
It's not that the pain's not there.
It just doesn't scare me anymore.
What a statement.
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Not afraid of the pain anymore.
I'm actually writing that down.
I mean, just a statement in and of itself.
Uh, I'm not afraid of the pain.
I mean, which tells me at some levelyou've learned how to embrace it.
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If I consume me and put me inthe pit, then I've given it, I've
given it, uh, I've become enslaved,
enslaved by Jesus Christ.
Pain has
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no control.
It's not that it's not real.
It's not that it doesn't hurt.
But it's just that youdon't scare me anymore.
You're not gonna do me in.
You know, over and over inPsalms, it talks about the
snares of the grave.
Uh, surrounded me.
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And it's not really, that'snot about the person who died.
That's us.
That's what the enemy wants to do to us.
He wants us to, quote, diewith the person who died.
And that is not breathing with hopeand it's not breathing with grace.
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And I'm not going to let the enemy beable to say that he was too much for me.
Wow.
Well, you made a statement earlier aboutpain and suffering, revealing our faith.
And to be quite frank, that's beenanother discouraging factor because.
It has revealed to me that myfaith is not near as strong or
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as deep as it's supposed to be.
I agree with what you're sayingthat pain does reveal it.
Matter of fact, just last night, Ionly read probably about a while.
I know exactly how many I read.
I read eight verses out of Jameschapter one, and you're probably
familiar, but starting in verse two,it says, knowing that the trying of
your faith develops patience and,um, I, I got a deeper view of that.
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As I was studying it and it was sayingthat the trying of your faith, so
that would encompass adversities andstruggles and trials and temptations
and everything that goes with it.
It, but it was actually a referenceto really what you're talking about
in that the trying of your faithworks patients and let patients
have its perfect work in you.
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But it was, it's like a validationin the, in the original language.
It basically was saying that in thesame way that maybe if you go to a store
and you hand them a 100 bill, you'lloften see that they'll make a mark
on it and they'll make a mark on it.
Because somehow that That pinthat they use verifies whether
or not that hundred dollar billis authentic or if it's a phony.
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And so what, what James was saying,the half brother of Christ was
saying that part of what adversityand trial and temptation and
problems is, it reveals your faith.
And then when it says, but letpatience have its perfect work in you.
I got another insight that I did not haveuntil last night that patients didn't
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mean that you just learn how to endure it.
You just learn how to gut it out.
No, that that not only does it revealyour faith, but the purpose of it is, is
not just so you can gut it out and just.
You know, sludge through the pain andsuffering, but so that you can grow
and you can develop and you can learn.
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So it's kind of a two foldapplication here where these
adversities come in your life.
Because as you said, God alreadyknows the depth or the strength of the
weakness of your faith, but it revealsto you what it is so that when you
see it, It gives you the ability tohave a change of perspective on it.
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It gives you the ability to changehow you respond to it, which
I think is what you're saying.
That's exactly what I'm saying.
It's been teaching me, it's the amount of,
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it's the object of my faith.
Jesus is that little faith,as long as that faith is in
him, as long as it's in him.
Totally placed in his ability to dowhat he sees best then is he not.
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You know, Lord, instead of trying tomuster it up, going through his attributes
and, and begin to look at who he he's, to
definition of joy and joy of
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to increase my joy, then Ibegin to think his anxious
he's me.
What strengthens us is when we beginto celebrate who he's, did you ever
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go through a season like I have where?
As we talk about what adversitydoes and revealing the strength
of the weakness of your faith.
On top of the discouragement ofwatching pain and suffering added
to that has been the realization ofhow much I had overestimated my own
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faith in God in my own walk with him.
Did you ever go through that where itwas revealed to you that your faith
wasn't as strong as you thought itwas and your commitment to Christ?
God doesn't view of our estimation
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of Europe.
My
goodness, when we had kidney cancer
and do this, you know, and youdidn't even ask permission,
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I don't feel the need to say,
he says he's good.
I understand.
Did you beat yourself up?
Like I have at times for therealization that my faith is not
as strong as it should be, orbecause I've been angry at God.
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I mean, when you reflected and looked at.
Some of the weakness that yousaw, because again, it to me,
it added insult to injury.
And if you did do that, like I have,how did you recalibrate that thinking
where rather than beating yourself upfor not being as strong as you should
be being able to move past that?
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I tell you what, having faithful friends.
Who would speak the truth to me.
Jesus is never, we are.
And he knew what he was getting.
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Fears, my patience, my, is not gonnabe, it's not gonna put him off.
He's not,
he's not irritated with us.
Disappointed in us.
He knew what he was getting.
And to have,
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Jesus is always known.
You know, that we're
being human.
I don't, he pities his children.
He remembers that we're dead.
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He knows, he knows what he's got in us.
He knows what he, and nothingever made him love me.
To begin with, so nothing canever make him stop loving me.
Yeah, I agree with that wholeheartedly.
But at the same time, I do feel likethat not only have I been let down with
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him, that he's been let down with me.
And I, I, I feel like he's justified tobe let down with me because There have
been seasons where I've walked away andwhere I have been bitter rather than
buckling down in my relationship with him.
I've ran away from him.
And so, um, I'm, I'm let down with me.
I feel like he oughtto be let down with me.
Yeah,
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but how do you not impart yourhumanness to a divine being?
How do you do that?
Well, that take, as I really, you know,Che, that really does take discipline.
It takes, uh, that's what Paul meantin, in Romans 12 where he said, be, uh,
transformed by the renewing of your mind.
It's constant, you know, repentance,repentance isn't so much beating our
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chest and I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Repentance is constantly changing ourmind to be in agreement with who God
says He is and who He says we are.
And so it.
That is sanctification, really, uh,That is the growing imperfection and
maturity like you were talking aboutin James, that the more we get in
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agreement with God, then the greaterour joy, the greater our peace, the
greater our sense of well being.
Yeah, I agree with that too, butI think that's part of my problem.
I've had a hard time gettingin agreement with him.
Um, that's, that's oftentimes beenvery difficult, but you know, pain
really for me has been a mirror.
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Yeah.
And it's not been a mirror into God.
Oftentimes it's been a mirror intomy own weakness in my own frailty.
Exactly.
Exactly.
It really is.
But there's no shame.
You know, we tend to have shame, butJesus said He's already born our shame.
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And so, anything that we see is notso that we'll beat ourselves up.
It's so that we'll receive fromHim the grace and redemption and
restoration that He longs to give us.
You're so far ahead of me.
I tell you what, I admire you.
I mean, I just, uh, I'm not there.
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I want to be there.
And again, reading, I think that's whyyour book had such a, your devotion had
such an impact on me because The insightthat you have and the spiritual depth
that you have, um, I don't know your ageand I don't want to know it, but I can
tell you this, God has obviously done anincredible work in you just even reading.
Matter of fact, if you don't mind,I want to just read a few things.
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Um, I could read this whole thing, butthere's a few things that, um, I just
want to read that they're, they're tome, they're almost beyond what I can.
Can what I can even explain, butlet me read one from day one and
it's out of Romans chapter 12.
And, uh, you're talking about thisnew kind of life that you have
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now that your husband is deceased.
And having a new identity.
Matter of fact, let me just read it.
Today is a day I slowly andpainfully begin a new kind of life.
Today I begin having a new identity.
So much of my grieve comes not onlyfrom missing my loved one, but this
is the statement that, wow, but Imiss who I was when we were together.
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That's one of the first things Iread, obviously it's day one and I
just love the realness of, I mean,I've never thought of it like that.
And having just lost my father, uh, again,this really, this really rang a bell
with me, but just not even having knownyou at that time in reading your book.
And I just love this transparency,this thought of, it's not just
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the pain of losing someone I love.
It's losing what I waswith this individual.
I don't know, for some reason, thatstatement is so powerful to me.
Right.
You know, Jay, when we suddenly dostuff, two losses, like you lost your
father, but you lost who you were,and so that's a shocker to people.
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It's like, it's like, you know,you talk to people who cared for
someone who was sick for a longtime, and that was their identity.
was loving and caring for that person,and then they're gone, and they don't
even know what to do with themselves.
And so it's that, not only do weneed grace to grieve the person we
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lost, but we also need the gracethat God wants to give us today.
Who we are important
in the group is Lord.
Give me the grace toteach me who I am now.
Who, where is my identity now?
Yeah.
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And that's what, that was the shock.
And, uh, it was such a shock.
I want to read something else.
Um, I want to read a few differentthings, but here's another one.
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Uh, I mean, we're juston day two, excuse me.
Um, this is the most exquisitepain I have ever known.
You wrote.
I, and I love this.
I find myself wanting to get away from it.
I think everybody can understand that.
I want to, I want to run fromthis pain, but then this is the
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statement that you add to it.
Not only do you want to get away fromit, but then you go on to say yet at the
same time, I want to wrap myself in it.
That's something else that just reallyconnected with me because I think, and you
know, so many people are struggling andfacing pain from all different aspects.
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I've never heard anybody say this.
I've never heard anybody write this,but there's such an element of truth
to this, that there is a side ofus oftentimes that does want to run
away from it and wants to escape.
But then there is a another, andI believe natural side where we
don't want to run away from it.
We want to wrap ourself in it.
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Do you feel like now on the backsideof that, and I hate to say the
backside cause you never get over it,but for lack of better vernacular,
do you find yourself even now stillwanting to wrap yourself in it?
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You can help me to not placeof denial, pretending it
never happened, but it helped
me understand this really did happenliving life on again, really Jay
for the first time in my life,
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because when Larry died, I
just left.
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Wow.
Yeah, there's so many things thatyou say that it kind of reminds me of
sometimes when I read this scripture,um, I can sometimes, I mean, there
are times I can read two chaptersand not tell you a thing I read.
And there's times that I can read threeverses and I can sit there and meditate
on that and think through the contextof it and what's being said and how it
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applies to me and can literally thinkon three verses for an hour and a half.
And some of what you write, Ifeel that same thing that, okay,
I can just read this so quickly.
But I can also sit here and meditateon, let me, let's move on to day five.
And you say this so much of the paincomes from fighting this, hating
(35:36):
it, not wanting it to be this way.
I can feel myself having ascreaming, kicking tantrum.
I can hear my heart crying out, change it.
Change it.
And the only answer isa silent, quiet, no.
And then your afterthought on that isLord helped me to accept your answer.
(35:59):
Again, just a bold, blatant reality thatwhen we go through pain, we do that.
We want to kick, we want to scream.
We want to fight.
But if we don't get to the place that youtalked about, where we realize we can't
change it, that the answer is, no, you'renot going to change it when the answer
(36:19):
is, this is the way it's going to be.
And because I'm God, you got to trustme, as you said, in an afterthought,
and I don't know if that's exactlywhat you said, but, but the
closing statement is getting to theplace where we accept the answer.
It doesn't mean that werejoice in the answer.
It doesn't mean that we likethe answer, but it means that we
(36:39):
understand we can't change it.
The answer is no, this is the way thatGod and his sovereignty has decided.
And so we can either be bitter, jaded,angry, resentful, and we can shipwreck
our faith, or we can say, God, I don'tlike it, but I know that the answer is no.
And so help me to embrace it.
That's exactly right.
(37:00):
I mean, Joe, you couldn'thave any better choices.
We're either going to ship right.
That's it.
And I've got rested.
He has got just rest in that.
Yeah.
I just love though, that there's somany devotions out there that are
(37:22):
just so sappy and they're not real.
And I just love the factthat you're just real about
(37:43):
read this much material.
I can't.
Think that far anymore, mymind's too tired, too much pain.
And so when I wrote this into adevotional, I intentionally thought
I'm just going to keep this shortand let people just have these
little thoughts to think on.
And then maybe that's anotherthing I like about it.
(38:06):
You know, I mean, what Ijust read was day five.
It's, I don't know, let me see one.
Two, three, four, five sentences inthis devotion for this one day is five
sentences and you go, well, what amI going to get out of five sentences?
But the truth of the matter is ifyou're a person who really and truly.
Is going through pain, then youknow that this one paragraph that
(38:29):
you wrote is a reality for you.
You have hated it.
You wanted to stop it.
And at some point you've had tocome to the conclusion that God
is saying, you can't change it.
It's not gonna change.
And the answer is no.
And, and, and so there is onlyreally one response that's left.
(38:50):
I mean, you can do a lot of things.
You, you can turn toillicit relationships.
You can turn to escape mechanismsthrough drugs or alcohol or a myriad
of other things, or you can say, God,I understand that the answer is no.
And even though I don't getit, I'm going to accept it.
And so I think even just in this oneparagraph, it gives people an opportunity
(39:11):
To look at and go, this is where Iam and this is what I'm going to do.
Maybe the succinctness, the simplicityof it is another thing I love.
Um, and most of thedevotions are like that.
They're just a paragraph or so, right?
Yes.
They're all very, very short for thatvery reason, because I understand
(39:32):
that people who are grieving,especially when they're in the.
Freshness of it, the abilityto concentrate, the attention
span is just about zero.
And so, uh, I wanted to share mythoughts, uh, in a way that people could,
it would resonate with them, but itwouldn't overwhelm them or wear them out
(39:53):
trying to read a whole bunch of words.
Somebody strung together becauseI found that most people pretty
much get things said in the firstparagraph and then they just repeat
themselves for several chapters.
That's true.
And again, that's why I was trying tobe really frank at the beginning when.
She brought this book in, I mean, I wasin the midst of my father dying and I'm
(40:16):
like, I don't want another Christian ease.
Let go.
Let God response.
And quite honestly, I figured, yeah.
And honestly, I figured thatthat's what this was going to be.
And it was just aprovidence of God, I think.
And I just flipped open and when Idon't remember what it was that I read
the first time, but I'm like, wow.
(40:38):
Well, let me, let me, I thought,I thought maybe you were having a
good day and one devotion was goingto be good, but I found out that,
uh, there is so many zingers here.
I'm going to move on to day 50.
I'm going to read one more.
I don't want to read the whole thingbecause our listeners really need to get a
copy of this, but let's move on to day 50.
It's out of Isaiah chapter 43 verse four.
The verse is, since you are preciousand honored in my sight, because I love
(41:01):
you, I will give men in exchange for youand people in exchange for your life.
And this is what you wrote.
If I give myself completely to this, if Itotally let it go and rest it solely with
the Lord, if I can once and for all lay itdown and never question it again, will I
see the kingdom of God spread through me?
(41:24):
Question one.
Will people come out of darknessand into the light again?
I think anybody going through realpain and I'm not talking about,
you know, rain today, I'm talkingabout really suffering and pain.
I think that's a question that peopleare asking that if I do let go of this
God, which as you said earlier that weread, there's a side of me that wants
(41:48):
to kick and scream and run from it.
There's a side of methat wants to embrace it.
But God, what if.
What if I really do let go of this andwhat what's going to be the result?
And you, you pose the question,will darkness be exposed and
come into the light and will itbring people into your kingdom?
And then this is.
(42:08):
The statement that you make at the veryend, Lord, is this what you are offering?
You, you pose a question and then yougive an answer because you already
know that this is what he's offeringbecause it's already happened.
And then you said this, Iwill accept your offer again.
I, I just hope, I don't knowour listeners listening to this.
(42:29):
I don't know if this impactsyou the way that it impacts me.
And again, maybe it's becauseMan, I'm struggling right now.
My family's struggling.
My mom's struggling.
My marriage is struggling.
My daughter's struggling.
I'm struggling ministry, struggling.
It it's, and maybe that's whyit resonates with me because I'm
in a difficult place right now.
(42:50):
But I think the crux of the matter isthis statement, these two statements.
Number one is, is what'sgoing to be the result?
If I let go, will your kingdom be built?
Will darkness be exposed?
But then you answer your own question.
And you say what I think a lot of ushave not yet said, maybe not gotten
(43:13):
to the place yet, but you said,Lord, I accept what you have offered.
I take the offering and it'sreal easy to take the offering
when the offering is good.
But when the offering is pain,are we willing to accept it?
Which goes back to my earlier statementabout serving God when things are
going well, that's an easy thing to do.
(43:33):
But when the offering is not whatyou wanted, And when the offering
breaks your heart, when it annihilatesyour soul, when it steals your joy,
will you still accept the offering?
And I think, ma'am, that'swhat makes you great.
I, I know what you say.
It's not you.
It's God in you.
And I know that's true, but your,your walk with God is a great God
(43:54):
because a great walk, because you havegotten to the place where you have
accepted an offering that nobody wants.
And Jay, you know, it is grace.
I always say that grace is theGod given ability to do what
would otherwise be impossible.
And it's impossible to offer thesacrifice of praise, the sacrifice of
(44:17):
thanksgiving, without the grace of God.
And I heard something the other daythat really resonated with me, that
it is only here in the hard place,That we can make the sacrifice of
praise because when we get to heaven,it won't be a sacrifice But here in
this place in the heart Will we offer?
(44:40):
The sacrifice of praisebecause he's worthy.
So powerful.
The name of this devotionis grace to grieve.
Uh, as I said earlier todevotional, it's written by Andrea.
What am I saying?
It right?
Wait, Lee, Andrea, wait, wait.
Okay.
I got you.
And honestly, we orderednumerous copies of it.
(45:03):
Um, I say we did, uh, my staff did.
I don't even know how can people geta copy of this because we have a bunch
of them, but again, I've got staffthat kind of handled that for me.
How do people get a copy of this?
Uh, I tell you what, if theywill email me at Andrew at gmail.
com, A N D R E A W A I T L E Y at gmail.
(45:30):
com, we will, uh, we'll behappy to get them copies of it.
Well, I want to encourageeverybody to get a copy of it.
And again, if you're lookingfor a book, this is not it.
I mean, you could, you Youcould breeze through this whole
thing in 30 minutes or less.
But again, as I said earlier, I thinka lot of it is, uh, I know it's not
scripture, but it has scripture in it, butit's a lot like scripture in the aspect
(45:53):
that You can read some of these mostlyfor the most part are paragraphs and you
can read them and there's such so muchdepth to it that you can really mull over
it and ponder it and think it through.
And again, if you're really goingthrough some difficult times,
there's not a doubt in my mindthat, uh, that this would resonate.
I mean, it certainly has with me.
(46:15):
Andrea, I know also you have apodcast that you do semi weekly.
If I understand correctly, thename of that podcast podcast
is the long and short of it.
Is that correct?
Yes, that's correct.
The long and short of it.
I do it with my friend, Terry Meyer,and we just have a, just a great
time talking about what it lookslike to do our faith in real time,
(46:37):
how to live out faith in real time.
And it's really geared forChristian women, correct?
And it's available oniTunes or every platform.
Right.
Yes.
You can get it on the, on the, uh,the Spotify being the podcast, you
know, the podcast is available there.
(46:58):
Also, I'd love for people to checkout our Facebook page, uh, cross
my heart ministry on Facebook.
Awesome.
And they can get a lot ofinformation about how to get in
touch with us and everything.
Well, and, and also, um, Andreadoes some speaking as well.
So.
Um, gosh, I hope to one day, I knowyou're, you're leaving Colorado and
(47:21):
moving back to the promised land of Texas.
And, uh, I'm, I'm hoping since, yeah.
And you're actually moving abouttwo hours from where my office
sits in, in Wichita Falls, Texas.
I'm hoping one day to getan opportunity to meet you.
I honestly, I truly mean it when I say.
Even though I've never met you face toface, I have such a deep respect for you.
(47:43):
And honestly, uh, I meanit with all sincerity.
I hope to sooner than later get to theplace where you have, and I can truly
get where I am grieving with grace.
Um, you're an awesome lady.
A lot, a lot of wisdom, you know,I, again, I read James one last
night says if any, One lacks wisdom.
(48:05):
Let him ask of God and hegives to all people liberally.
And he's certainly givingyou a heavy dose of it.
I do.
And he is a good and gracious God.
And he loves to lavish usthe things that he knows.
Andrea, thank you so much.
You're an incredible lady.
I hope many people get your book,many blessings on you and yours.
(48:29):
Thank you, Jay.
Are you not entertained?
(00:05):
Get busy living, or get busy dying.
All we have to decide is what to dowith the time that is given to us.
Well, welcome to this week's editionof taboo talk with Jay Louder.
I want to set the table a littlebit about our guest today.
(00:27):
So, um, Sharonda, many ofyou heard Sharonda, she's
done some podcasts with me.
She's been a member of the harvest teamfor gosh, I don't know, 14, 15 years.
And Sharonda lost hermother a few months ago.
And it was very surprising matter of fact,her mother was at church and unexpectedly
had a heart attack and passed away.
(00:48):
And so of course, it's been a difficulttime and trying time for her and her
family and her father, who is a preacherand, and Andrea, in a minute, you may
have to clarify some of this, but.
He was somewhere and I believe he met you.
Did he not end Andrea?
He met you somewhere.
Is that correct?
He met a friend, he met a friend of mine.
(01:09):
Okay.
And, and she was the onethat gave him the book.
Is that correct?
Yes, that's right.
Okay.
So yeah, he met a friend of Andrea'sand this friend, uh, I guess knew that
he was grieving the loss of his wife.
And gave to him a book.
And so Sharonda one daywas telling me this story.
(01:30):
Now, Sharonda had not yet read this book.
It's a devotional it'scalled grace to grieve.
And I want to be honest here.
We get a lot of stuff sent to us.
Um, We get books, we get sermons.
We have people that want to handme songs that they've written to
give to some of the, um, peoplethat we know in Christian music.
(01:52):
And I mean, we get bombarded with quitea few things, but this was a short little
book and my father recently passed away.
So it's been a difficulttime for our family.
My, my daughter's struggling about tohave another surgery here in a few weeks.
And so anyway, Sharonda had not yet readthe book, but she brought it in my office
(02:13):
and was telling me about this devotionthat had had a huge impact on her father
.And again, because I get so many things like this, I, it's impossible
for me to read every book andto read every sermon idea and.
And every new song that I should andcould promote to people that I know,
(02:36):
but I just picked it up and thought,I'm just going to peruse this book.
And I say a book, I mean, the truthof it is you could read this devotion.
Oh gosh, I don't know.
You could probably read the whole thingif you just read it through in 30 minutes.
But I just randomly started flippingthrough it and I read something
and I said, golly, that is strong.
(02:57):
And then I flipped another pagebecause sometimes somebody has
a good day, but that doesn'tmean the whole books that way.
And then I read something else and itresonated with me even more long and short
of it is, is I sit there in my office.
And I read this devotion cover to cover.
And I walked in and said, Sharonda, youhave got to read this knowing that she
was grieving the loss of her mother.
(03:20):
And, uh, and she knows me wellenough to know for me to be that
excited about something and.
to be that expressive aboutsomething impacting me.
And I said, I don't know who this lady is.
We've got to find out who she is.
And I want to buy several copies.
And so we bought severalcopies of this devotion.
And it's just, you know, thetruth of the matter is, is a
(03:43):
lot of people are strugglingand a lot of people are hurting.
And if that's you, this devotionis something that you got to get.
So with all that being said, AndreaWatley, welcome to today's podcast.
(04:06):
I apologize.
Well, I'm glad you cleared that up.
I want you to know your devotion has just,I mean, again, I, I'm at a loss for words,
some of the things that you've written.
And obviously you can tell thatyou're speaking from a heart that
(04:27):
loves the Lord, but you're alsospeaking from a heart of transparency,
authenticity, and true pain and sorrow.
And before we get into that, because Iactually want to read, um, just some of
the, I mean, I could read the whole thing.
Um, and I think our, our listenerswould be really impacted by it, but
I do want to read segments of it.
(04:48):
But before we get into that, justso our listeners have a little bit
of an understanding of who you are.
Andre, tell us about how old wereyou when you came to know Christ
and how did you come to know Christbefore we get too deep into this?
All right, well, Jay, at 15years old, I received the gospel.
(05:09):
Prior to that,
who invested in me, uh, over andover with the scriptures, uh, with
prayer, by taking us to church,uh, a good foundation was laid.
And I watched them walk through suchhard places and, and really lean
(05:30):
into the Lord, that, that, for anyof us to, life is to embrace Jesus.
Knowing the Lord, I want to give my age.
I was 15 and I'm not anymore
(05:57):
that's been my journey.
Ministry now.
Ministry called Cross Mind.
Ministry called Grace to Grieve.
Ministry taken from the book.
Both ministries are the fact that weare to live our lives in such a way
(06:18):
that we bring honor and glory to God.
And we, Reassure others that healways intends to do good to them.
Well, tell me this, Andre, have youalways been a writer or is this something
that's relatively new that was birthedout of the pain that you've gone through?
No, I tell you what,Jay, I love to journal.
(06:40):
I love to read.
And then I've all
pen and tape
just get along and just recordthose things that he impresses on my
(07:10):
six years old to be with Jesus.
Those things that you're readingwere the things that God been
to me as I greet that law.
Now, I don't want to get toofar ahead of things because I
do want to break down the story.
But was this book written, ourlisteners don't know this, but you've
actually, two husbands have died.
(07:32):
Was this book actually written thedeath of the first husband or the
husband you lost about a year ago?
This one was written is this
(08:14):
Well, I think that's a wonderful idea.
Andrea, oftentimes those of uswho are believers and I've even
been guilty of this in regardsto the health of my daughter.
I won't get into that today, butour listeners are well aware of it.
I've got a daughter that has an incurabledisease and we've watched her suffer.
And I even mentioned earlier, she.
She's having hip surgery.
(08:35):
I mean, here she is in her earlytwenties and she's having hip
surgery as though she were an 80year old woman in just a few weeks.
And it's been very, very difficultjust watching her suffer and the
pain that she's gone through.
And the truth of it is, and let mequantify this because I know the
scripture says that God sends therain on the just and the unjust.
(08:56):
And I also know that just becauseI'm a believer, does not make me
immune to pain and suffering thatI was not created for this life.
I was created for the next.
However if I'm to be completelyhonest, There has been a side of
me that even though spiritually andintellectually, I know better than this.
(09:18):
There has been a side of methat has said, Lord, I've spent
my life preaching the gospel.
I've spent my life trying to serve you.
I know that I have alot of holes in my life.
I know I'm not perfect.
I know there's a lot of things thatI need to work on, but there has
been a side of me that's felt like.
God, surely, I mean, I'monly asking for one thing.
(09:42):
I'm not even asking for mydaughter's disease to go away.
I'm only asking for youto stop the suffering.
And there has been a side thateven though I know it's not correct
thinking, there's been a side ofme that said, Lord, I'm sorry.
I've never told the Lord he owesme this, but the truth of it is
I have felt like he owed me this.
(10:03):
Now, again, I want to clarify.
I know that what the Lord really owesme is an eternity separated from God.
I know that.
But yet the human side of me hassaid, Lord, I mean, surely I'm
just not asking for that much.
, and you could at least Stopthe suffering of my daughter.
(10:25):
And there have been times that I havebeen angry at God for feeling like,
honestly, I, again, I'm, I, I hate toadmit it, but feeling as though not
necessarily that he owes me, but thisis the least that he could do for me.
And he hasn't done it andI'm having to accept it.
And again, my daughter'son a Walker right now.
(10:46):
And she's going to be in awheelchair for at least three months.
So I say all that to say to you,um, you have experienced obviously
a tremendous amount of pain.
You have lost two husbands due to death.
I can't help but wonder, haveyou ever had those thoughts?
I mean, has there been aseason where you've gone,
(11:07):
okay, God, I lost one husband.
Isn't that enough?
I mean, or is that not somethingthat you struggle with?
It's something I sure
he was kidney cancer.
(11:31):
It was through his spot.
It's an amazing sense of humor that whenthe doctor told him, he said, Larry,
it's in your line, all your major organs.
And he looked at it and he said,well, that just plays heck with it.
Doesn't it?
And the doctor looked at him,didn't really know how, but then
(11:55):
Larry said something in prayer.
He said, you know what, doc, you'remy option, but Jesus Christ is my
hope and I'll put my trust in him.
Wow.
And he did.
After he died, my bedroom matchesto heaven and in the whole
eternity, did Larry really to die?
(12:19):
Jay, it got
spirit, a very quiet, yes,
to trust this God who said he loved me.
And I think that we start.
Trying to determine God's love for usbased on our circumstances and what's
(12:42):
going on, rather than what God saysHis definition of love for us is.
And His definition of love is thatHe sent His Son to die in our place,
to take the punishment we deserve,to live the life we couldn't live.
And that's God's definition of love.
And one of the things that I have come torealize when I want to kick against all
(13:07):
these hard places and these hard thingsis the Lord's begun to teach me, says,
would you trust a love that loves youtoo much to not do everything it takes
to conform you to the image of my son?
It's just so hard though, when,when, when that building of the trust
(13:30):
requires the suffering of someone else.
It is.
Seriously, Lord, you wantme to watch this child?
So know that there are times thatGod asks us to step into the place of
identification with Him, and He shares Hisheart with us of the things that cause Him
(13:54):
pain, and that cause His heart to break.
And, What you had, what you're havingto watch with your daughter is that
stepping into God is pulling youalongside himself and saying, Jay,
I'm giving you a very sacred spacewith me and showing you what's in my
heart is I watch my Children suffer.
(14:16):
Yeah, it's just so hard to accept and, andobviously, I mean, you're wise beyond your
years and reading your devotion makes thatabsolutely clear and you certainly have a
lot more wisdom than I do and you're a lotmore further in your walk with the Lord.
No, but it is because what you'resaying, because I've done it.
(14:38):
You, you want to go to, if you'd leave itup to me, I'd make her and I did quickly
stop, I would at least make this go away.
And I don't understand why you don't.
And, and those are the, thoseare just those hard places that
just this side of heaven, we arenever going to get to understand.
So you've gotten to a placewhere you no longer question it.
(15:01):
I mean, because I'm not lost aspouse, but I would think if I lost
one, as difficult as that would be.
If I was at round two losing another,I mean, it would be very difficult for
me not to say, okay, really, becauseI mean, you talked about trusting
God and it's real easy to trust Godwhen things are going your way and
(15:24):
everything's fine and the financesare fine and the family's fine, but
it's another thing, trusting God.
When the bottom falls out, it reallyis, but you know, Peter tells us that
that is how we come to the place ofknowing that this genuine is when
it's big because it's just sittingin the dock and just floating there.
(15:48):
But if you get that boat out on and itdoesn't fit in his, It's not genuine.
It
is genuine, but he wants us
that we were garaged for both.
(16:12):
We were both very determined
on who Jesus said he was andhave him be at the center of it.
Minister said until death do you part.
He said, yeah, in 40 or 50 years.
Well, I got just short of nine yearsand I can remember being so angry
(16:35):
with God and saying I wanted 40 yearsand the Lord, he just showed me.
He said, I never promised you 40 years.
I promise you.
That you would do that marriage well,that you would live the gospel through
that marriage, and that's what we did.
And so when, uh, when the Lordbrought Frank Whateley into my
(16:57):
life in a miraculous way, when hebrought Frank Whateley into my life,
Frank was 17 years older than me.
And I had been praying that, Lord, if youhave someone for me, you have to send him.
And he did.
And when Frank told me how much olderhe was than me, uh, I was, I hung up
the phone from our first conversation,and, uh, I knew I'd been praying, and
(17:21):
I'd asked the Lord to give me a Boaz.
And, uh, As Frank and I talkedmore and more, I said, Lord,
he is so much older than me.
And the Lord said, youasked me for a Boaz.
And Boaz was older than Rick.
And as things progressed, andI knew the Lord was putting us
together, I said, Lord, he'sprobably going to die before I do.
(17:45):
He's that much older.
He's going to die before I do.
And the Lord said, has my gracebeen sufficient with Larry?
When you lost Larry, and ofcourse it was, and he said,
don't you think it will be again?
And he was right because God cannot lie.
And I tell people a lot of times,the things I learned through Larry's
(18:09):
going to be with Jesus, I know.
After Frank having gone to be withJesus, uh, it's just that having
learned it and then getting to walk inthe knowing of it, that he really, I'm
not afraid of the pain anymore, Jay.
That's right.
It's not that the pain's not there.
It just doesn't scare me anymore.
What a statement.
(18:31):
Not afraid of the pain anymore.
I'm actually writing that down.
I mean, just a statement in and of itself.
Uh, I'm not afraid of the pain.
I mean, which tells me at some levelyou've learned how to embrace it.
(18:51):
If I consume me and put me inthe pit, then I've given it, I've
given it, uh, I've become enslaved,
enslaved by Jesus Christ.
Pain has
(19:11):
no control.
It's not that it's not real.
It's not that it doesn't hurt.
But it's just that youdon't scare me anymore.
You're not gonna do me in.
You know, over and over inPsalms, it talks about the
snares of the grave.
Uh, surrounded me.
(19:32):
And it's not really, that'snot about the person who died.
That's us.
That's what the enemy wants to do to us.
He wants us to, quote, diewith the person who died.
And that is not breathing with hopeand it's not breathing with grace.
(19:52):
And I'm not going to let the enemy beable to say that he was too much for me.
Wow.
Well, you made a statement earlier aboutpain and suffering, revealing our faith.
And to be quite frank, that's beenanother discouraging factor because.
It has revealed to me that myfaith is not near as strong or
(20:14):
as deep as it's supposed to be.
I agree with what you're sayingthat pain does reveal it.
Matter of fact, just last night, Ionly read probably about a while.
I know exactly how many I read.
I read eight verses out of Jameschapter one, and you're probably
familiar, but starting in verse two,it says, knowing that the trying of
your faith develops patience and,um, I, I got a deeper view of that.
(20:39):
As I was studying it and it was sayingthat the trying of your faith, so
that would encompass adversities andstruggles and trials and temptations
and everything that goes with it.
It, but it was actually a referenceto really what you're talking about
in that the trying of your faithworks patients and let patients
have its perfect work in you.
(21:00):
But it was, it's like a validationin the, in the original language.
It basically was saying that in thesame way that maybe if you go to a store
and you hand them a 100 bill, you'lloften see that they'll make a mark
on it and they'll make a mark on it.
Because somehow that That pinthat they use verifies whether
or not that hundred dollar billis authentic or if it's a phony.
(21:24):
And so what, what James was saying,the half brother of Christ was
saying that part of what adversityand trial and temptation and
problems is, it reveals your faith.
And then when it says, but letpatience have its perfect work in you.
I got another insight that I did not haveuntil last night that patients didn't
(21:46):
mean that you just learn how to endure it.
You just learn how to gut it out.
No, that that not only does it revealyour faith, but the purpose of it is, is
not just so you can gut it out and just.
You know, sludge through the pain andsuffering, but so that you can grow
and you can develop and you can learn.
(22:07):
So it's kind of a two foldapplication here where these
adversities come in your life.
Because as you said, God alreadyknows the depth or the strength of the
weakness of your faith, but it revealsto you what it is so that when you
see it, It gives you the ability tohave a change of perspective on it.
(22:28):
It gives you the ability to changehow you respond to it, which
I think is what you're saying.
That's exactly what I'm saying.
It's been teaching me, it's the amount of,
(22:48):
it's the object of my faith.
Jesus is that little faith,as long as that faith is in
him, as long as it's in him.
Totally placed in his ability to dowhat he sees best then is he not.
(23:10):
You know, Lord, instead of trying tomuster it up, going through his attributes
and, and begin to look at who he he's, to
definition of joy and joy of
(23:33):
to increase my joy, then Ibegin to think his anxious
he's me.
What strengthens us is when we beginto celebrate who he's, did you ever
(23:55):
go through a season like I have where?
As we talk about what adversitydoes and revealing the strength
of the weakness of your faith.
On top of the discouragement ofwatching pain and suffering added
to that has been the realization ofhow much I had overestimated my own
(24:16):
faith in God in my own walk with him.
Did you ever go through that where itwas revealed to you that your faith
wasn't as strong as you thought itwas and your commitment to Christ?
God doesn't view of our estimation
(24:45):
of Europe.
My
goodness, when we had kidney cancer
and do this, you know, and youdidn't even ask permission,
(25:13):
I don't feel the need to say,
he says he's good.
I understand.
Did you beat yourself up?
Like I have at times for therealization that my faith is not
as strong as it should be, orbecause I've been angry at God.
(25:35):
I mean, when you reflected and looked at.
Some of the weakness that yousaw, because again, it to me,
it added insult to injury.
And if you did do that, like I have,how did you recalibrate that thinking
where rather than beating yourself upfor not being as strong as you should
be being able to move past that?
(25:56):
I tell you what, having faithful friends.
Who would speak the truth to me.
Jesus is never, we are.
And he knew what he was getting.
(26:20):
Fears, my patience, my, is not gonnabe, it's not gonna put him off.
He's not,
he's not irritated with us.
Disappointed in us.
He knew what he was getting.
And to have,
(26:42):
Jesus is always known.
You know, that we're
being human.
I don't, he pities his children.
He remembers that we're dead.
(27:03):
He knows, he knows what he's got in us.
He knows what he, and nothingever made him love me.
To begin with, so nothing canever make him stop loving me.
Yeah, I agree with that wholeheartedly.
But at the same time, I do feel likethat not only have I been let down with
(27:24):
him, that he's been let down with me.
And I, I, I feel like he's justified tobe let down with me because There have
been seasons where I've walked away andwhere I have been bitter rather than
buckling down in my relationship with him.
I've ran away from him.
And so, um, I'm, I'm let down with me.
I feel like he oughtto be let down with me.
Yeah,
(27:51):
but how do you not impart yourhumanness to a divine being?
How do you do that?
Well, that take, as I really, you know,Che, that really does take discipline.
It takes, uh, that's what Paul meantin, in Romans 12 where he said, be, uh,
transformed by the renewing of your mind.
It's constant, you know, repentance,repentance isn't so much beating our
(28:14):
chest and I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Repentance is constantly changing ourmind to be in agreement with who God
says He is and who He says we are.
And so it.
That is sanctification, really, uh,That is the growing imperfection and
maturity like you were talking aboutin James, that the more we get in
(28:37):
agreement with God, then the greaterour joy, the greater our peace, the
greater our sense of well being.
Yeah, I agree with that too, butI think that's part of my problem.
I've had a hard time gettingin agreement with him.
Um, that's, that's oftentimes beenvery difficult, but you know, pain
really for me has been a mirror.
(28:59):
Yeah.
And it's not been a mirror into God.
Oftentimes it's been a mirror intomy own weakness in my own frailty.
Exactly.
Exactly.
It really is.
But there's no shame.
You know, we tend to have shame, butJesus said He's already born our shame.
(29:20):
And so, anything that we see is notso that we'll beat ourselves up.
It's so that we'll receive fromHim the grace and redemption and
restoration that He longs to give us.
You're so far ahead of me.
I tell you what, I admire you.
I mean, I just, uh, I'm not there.
(29:43):
I want to be there.
And again, reading, I think that's whyyour book had such a, your devotion had
such an impact on me because The insightthat you have and the spiritual depth
that you have, um, I don't know your ageand I don't want to know it, but I can
tell you this, God has obviously done anincredible work in you just even reading.
Matter of fact, if you don't mind,I want to just read a few things.
(30:04):
Um, I could read this whole thing, butthere's a few things that, um, I just
want to read that they're, they're tome, they're almost beyond what I can.
Can what I can even explain, butlet me read one from day one and
it's out of Romans chapter 12.
And, uh, you're talking about thisnew kind of life that you have
(30:25):
now that your husband is deceased.
And having a new identity.
Matter of fact, let me just read it.
Today is a day I slowly andpainfully begin a new kind of life.
Today I begin having a new identity.
So much of my grieve comes not onlyfrom missing my loved one, but this
is the statement that, wow, but Imiss who I was when we were together.
(30:50):
That's one of the first things Iread, obviously it's day one and I
just love the realness of, I mean,I've never thought of it like that.
And having just lost my father, uh, again,this really, this really rang a bell
with me, but just not even having knownyou at that time in reading your book.
And I just love this transparency,this thought of, it's not just
(31:14):
the pain of losing someone I love.
It's losing what I waswith this individual.
I don't know, for some reason, thatstatement is so powerful to me.
Right.
You know, Jay, when we suddenly dostuff, two losses, like you lost your
father, but you lost who you were,and so that's a shocker to people.
(31:40):
It's like, it's like, you know,you talk to people who cared for
someone who was sick for a longtime, and that was their identity.
was loving and caring for that person,and then they're gone, and they don't
even know what to do with themselves.
And so it's that, not only do weneed grace to grieve the person we
(32:01):
lost, but we also need the gracethat God wants to give us today.
Who we are important
in the group is Lord.
Give me the grace toteach me who I am now.
Who, where is my identity now?
Yeah.
(32:22):
And that's what, that was the shock.
And, uh, it was such a shock.
I want to read something else.
Um, I want to read a few differentthings, but here's another one.
(32:43):
Uh, I mean, we're juston day two, excuse me.
Um, this is the most exquisitepain I have ever known.
You wrote.
I, and I love this.
I find myself wanting to get away from it.
I think everybody can understand that.
I want to, I want to run fromthis pain, but then this is the
(33:03):
statement that you add to it.
Not only do you want to get away fromit, but then you go on to say yet at the
same time, I want to wrap myself in it.
That's something else that just reallyconnected with me because I think, and you
know, so many people are struggling andfacing pain from all different aspects.
(33:25):
I've never heard anybody say this.
I've never heard anybody write this,but there's such an element of truth
to this, that there is a side ofus oftentimes that does want to run
away from it and wants to escape.
But then there is a another, andI believe natural side where we
don't want to run away from it.
We want to wrap ourself in it.
(33:46):
Do you feel like now on the backsideof that, and I hate to say the
backside cause you never get over it,but for lack of better vernacular,
do you find yourself even now stillwanting to wrap yourself in it?
(34:07):
You can help me to not placeof denial, pretending it
never happened, but it helped
me understand this really did happenliving life on again, really Jay
for the first time in my life,
(34:29):
because when Larry died, I
just left.
(34:52):
Wow.
Yeah, there's so many things thatyou say that it kind of reminds me of
sometimes when I read this scripture,um, I can sometimes, I mean, there
are times I can read two chaptersand not tell you a thing I read.
And there's times that I can read threeverses and I can sit there and meditate
on that and think through the contextof it and what's being said and how it
(35:15):
applies to me and can literally thinkon three verses for an hour and a half.
And some of what you write, Ifeel that same thing that, okay,
I can just read this so quickly.
But I can also sit here and meditateon, let me, let's move on to day five.
And you say this so much of the paincomes from fighting this, hating
(35:36):
it, not wanting it to be this way.
I can feel myself having ascreaming, kicking tantrum.
I can hear my heart crying out, change it.
Change it.
And the only answer isa silent, quiet, no.
And then your afterthought on that isLord helped me to accept your answer.
(35:59):
Again, just a bold, blatant reality thatwhen we go through pain, we do that.
We want to kick, we want to scream.
We want to fight.
But if we don't get to the place that youtalked about, where we realize we can't
change it, that the answer is, no, you'renot going to change it when the answer
(36:19):
is, this is the way it's going to be.
And because I'm God, you got to trustme, as you said, in an afterthought,
and I don't know if that's exactlywhat you said, but, but the
closing statement is getting to theplace where we accept the answer.
It doesn't mean that werejoice in the answer.
It doesn't mean that we likethe answer, but it means that we
(36:39):
understand we can't change it.
The answer is no, this is the way thatGod and his sovereignty has decided.
And so we can either be bitter, jaded,angry, resentful, and we can shipwreck
our faith, or we can say, God, I don'tlike it, but I know that the answer is no.
And so help me to embrace it.
That's exactly right.
(37:00):
I mean, Joe, you couldn'thave any better choices.
We're either going to ship right.
That's it.
And I've got rested.
He has got just rest in that.
Yeah.
I just love though, that there's somany devotions out there that are
(37:22):
just so sappy and they're not real.
And I just love the factthat you're just real about
(37:43):
read this much material.
I can't.
Think that far anymore, mymind's too tired, too much pain.
And so when I wrote this into adevotional, I intentionally thought
I'm just going to keep this shortand let people just have these
little thoughts to think on.
And then maybe that's anotherthing I like about it.
(38:06):
You know, I mean, what Ijust read was day five.
It's, I don't know, let me see one.
Two, three, four, five sentences inthis devotion for this one day is five
sentences and you go, well, what amI going to get out of five sentences?
But the truth of the matter is ifyou're a person who really and truly.
Is going through pain, then youknow that this one paragraph that
(38:29):
you wrote is a reality for you.
You have hated it.
You wanted to stop it.
And at some point you've had tocome to the conclusion that God
is saying, you can't change it.
It's not gonna change.
And the answer is no.
And, and, and so there is onlyreally one response that's left.
(38:50):
I mean, you can do a lot of things.
You, you can turn toillicit relationships.
You can turn to escape mechanismsthrough drugs or alcohol or a myriad
of other things, or you can say, God,I understand that the answer is no.
And even though I don't getit, I'm going to accept it.
And so I think even just in this oneparagraph, it gives people an opportunity
(39:11):
To look at and go, this is where Iam and this is what I'm going to do.
Maybe the succinctness, the simplicityof it is another thing I love.
Um, and most of thedevotions are like that.
They're just a paragraph or so, right?
Yes.
They're all very, very short for thatvery reason, because I understand
(39:32):
that people who are grieving,especially when they're in the.
Freshness of it, the abilityto concentrate, the attention
span is just about zero.
And so, uh, I wanted to share mythoughts, uh, in a way that people could,
it would resonate with them, but itwouldn't overwhelm them or wear them out
(39:53):
trying to read a whole bunch of words.
Somebody strung together becauseI found that most people pretty
much get things said in the firstparagraph and then they just repeat
themselves for several chapters.
That's true.
And again, that's why I was trying tobe really frank at the beginning when.
She brought this book in, I mean, I wasin the midst of my father dying and I'm
(40:16):
like, I don't want another Christian ease.
Let go.
Let God response.
And quite honestly, I figured, yeah.
And honestly, I figured thatthat's what this was going to be.
And it was just aprovidence of God, I think.
And I just flipped open and when Idon't remember what it was that I read
the first time, but I'm like, wow.
(40:38):
Well, let me, let me, I thought,I thought maybe you were having a
good day and one devotion was goingto be good, but I found out that,
uh, there is so many zingers here.
I'm going to move on to day 50.
I'm going to read one more.
I don't want to read the whole thingbecause our listeners really need to get a
copy of this, but let's move on to day 50.
It's out of Isaiah chapter 43 verse four.
The verse is, since you are preciousand honored in my sight, because I love
(41:01):
you, I will give men in exchange for youand people in exchange for your life.
And this is what you wrote.
If I give myself completely to this, if Itotally let it go and rest it solely with
the Lord, if I can once and for all lay itdown and never question it again, will I
see the kingdom of God spread through me?
(41:24):
Question one.
Will people come out of darknessand into the light again?
I think anybody going through realpain and I'm not talking about,
you know, rain today, I'm talkingabout really suffering and pain.
I think that's a question that peopleare asking that if I do let go of this
God, which as you said earlier that weread, there's a side of me that wants
(41:48):
to kick and scream and run from it.
There's a side of methat wants to embrace it.
But God, what if.
What if I really do let go of this andwhat what's going to be the result?
And you, you pose the question,will darkness be exposed and
come into the light and will itbring people into your kingdom?
And then this is.
(42:08):
The statement that you make at the veryend, Lord, is this what you are offering?
You, you pose a question and then yougive an answer because you already
know that this is what he's offeringbecause it's already happened.
And then you said this, Iwill accept your offer again.
I, I just hope, I don't knowour listeners listening to this.
(42:29):
I don't know if this impactsyou the way that it impacts me.
And again, maybe it's becauseMan, I'm struggling right now.
My family's struggling.
My mom's struggling.
My marriage is struggling.
My daughter's struggling.
I'm struggling ministry, struggling.
It it's, and maybe that's whyit resonates with me because I'm
in a difficult place right now.
(42:50):
But I think the crux of the matter isthis statement, these two statements.
Number one is, is what'sgoing to be the result?
If I let go, will your kingdom be built?
Will darkness be exposed?
But then you answer your own question.
And you say what I think a lot of ushave not yet said, maybe not gotten
(43:13):
to the place yet, but you said,Lord, I accept what you have offered.
I take the offering and it'sreal easy to take the offering
when the offering is good.
But when the offering is pain,are we willing to accept it?
Which goes back to my earlier statementabout serving God when things are
going well, that's an easy thing to do.
(43:33):
But when the offering is not whatyou wanted, And when the offering
breaks your heart, when it annihilatesyour soul, when it steals your joy,
will you still accept the offering?
And I think, ma'am, that'swhat makes you great.
I, I know what you say.
It's not you.
It's God in you.
And I know that's true, but your,your walk with God is a great God
(43:54):
because a great walk, because you havegotten to the place where you have
accepted an offering that nobody wants.
And Jay, you know, it is grace.
I always say that grace is theGod given ability to do what
would otherwise be impossible.
And it's impossible to offer thesacrifice of praise, the sacrifice of
(44:17):
thanksgiving, without the grace of God.
And I heard something the other daythat really resonated with me, that
it is only here in the hard place,That we can make the sacrifice of
praise because when we get to heaven,it won't be a sacrifice But here in
this place in the heart Will we offer?
(44:40):
The sacrifice of praisebecause he's worthy.
So powerful.
The name of this devotionis grace to grieve.
Uh, as I said earlier todevotional, it's written by Andrea.
What am I saying?
It right?
Wait, Lee, Andrea, wait, wait.
Okay.
I got you.
And honestly, we orderednumerous copies of it.
(45:03):
Um, I say we did, uh, my staff did.
I don't even know how can people geta copy of this because we have a bunch
of them, but again, I've got staffthat kind of handled that for me.
How do people get a copy of this?
Uh, I tell you what, if theywill email me at Andrew at gmail.
com, A N D R E A W A I T L E Y at gmail.
(45:30):
com, we will, uh, we'll behappy to get them copies of it.
Well, I want to encourageeverybody to get a copy of it.
And again, if you're lookingfor a book, this is not it.
I mean, you could, you Youcould breeze through this whole
thing in 30 minutes or less.
But again, as I said earlier, I thinka lot of it is, uh, I know it's not
scripture, but it has scripture in it, butit's a lot like scripture in the aspect
(45:53):
that You can read some of these mostlyfor the most part are paragraphs and you
can read them and there's such so muchdepth to it that you can really mull over
it and ponder it and think it through.
And again, if you're really goingthrough some difficult times,
there's not a doubt in my mindthat, uh, that this would resonate.
I mean, it certainly has with me.
(46:15):
Andrea, I know also you have apodcast that you do semi weekly.
If I understand correctly, thename of that podcast podcast
is the long and short of it.
Is that correct?
Yes, that's correct.
The long and short of it.
I do it with my friend, Terry Meyer,and we just have a, just a great
time talking about what it lookslike to do our faith in real time,
(46:37):
how to live out faith in real time.
And it's really geared forChristian women, correct?
And it's available oniTunes or every platform.
Right.
Yes.
You can get it on the, on the, uh,the Spotify being the podcast, you
know, the podcast is available there.
(46:58):
Also, I'd love for people to checkout our Facebook page, uh, cross
my heart ministry on Facebook.
Awesome.
And they can get a lot ofinformation about how to get in
touch with us and everything.
Well, and, and also, um, Andreadoes some speaking as well.
So.
Um, gosh, I hope to one day, I knowyou're, you're leaving Colorado and
(47:21):
moving back to the promised land of Texas.
And, uh, I'm, I'm hoping since, yeah.
And you're actually moving abouttwo hours from where my office
sits in, in Wichita Falls, Texas.
I'm hoping one day to getan opportunity to meet you.
I honestly, I truly mean it when I say.
Even though I've never met you face toface, I have such a deep respect for you.
(47:43):
And honestly, uh, I meanit with all sincerity.
I hope to sooner than later get to theplace where you have, and I can truly
get where I am grieving with grace.
Um, you're an awesome lady.
A lot, a lot of wisdom, you know,I, again, I read James one last
night says if any, One lacks wisdom.
(48:05):
Let him ask of God and hegives to all people liberally.
And he's certainly givingyou a heavy dose of it.
I do.
And he is a good and gracious God.
And he loves to lavish usthe things that he knows.
Andrea, thank you so much.
You're an incredible lady.
I hope many people get your book,many blessings on you and yours.
(48:29):
Thank you, Jay.
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