“Don’t Mention the Holy Spirit”—What These Iranian Women Were Told In American Churches (Ep 343)

Iranian Christian women, imprisoned for their faith, were urged by some American churches and publishers: “Please don’t speak about the Holy Spirit.” But for them, the Holy Spirit wasn’t a side note. He was central. He sustained them through persecution and gave them supernatural strength, guidance, and peace.

Why is much of the American Church hesitant, even resistant, to embrace the full-spectrum, present-day ministry of the Holy Spirit we see in the New Testament? Has a theological cognitive bias dulled our spiritual edge?

In this episode, we press into the tension between charismatic Christianity and the often rational, stripped-down theology of the West. And we ask: What can the persecuted church teach us about walking in the power of the Holy Spirit?

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See the full episode transcript below.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Not everyone in American churches knows and experiences true Christianity. That reality was driven home in a recent panel discussion featuring three Iranian women who endured prison for their faith in Christ. Their testimony is both sobering and inspiring.

They remind us that we must value our freedom as American Christians—and use it. Our freedom is not just for personal enjoyment but to be a voice for the persecuted church worldwide.

These women shared that the only thing that sustained them in prison was their faith and the present ministry of the Holy Spirit.

The panel, Stories from Religious Freedom and the Growth of the Underground Church, was hosted on the Family Research Council website (FRC.org). I’ll link to it on the show notes page at JesusSmart.com.

One of the women was arrested and detained in a men’s detention center in 2009. That same year, the other two were imprisoned for promoting Christianity. They spent 259 days in Tehran’s notorious Evin Prison. Although sentenced to death, they were eventually cleared and released under international pressure.

Their stories, however, are not unique. Open Doors USA ranks Iran as the ninth worst country in the world for Christian persecution. (I’ll link to their resource on the show notes page as well.)

A Message to the American Church

The Iranian women explained that when they moved to the United States, they assumed it was a Christian nation. But soon they realized that not everyone believes in Jesus—or even understands true Christianity.

They compared it to Iran, where most people are born Muslim but may never read the Quran or deeply know their faith. In the U.S., many are born into Christian culture without a personal relationship with Christ.

Their message to the American church is clear: appreciate the freedom you have. The ability to worship freely, sing loudly, and gather openly is a precious gift.

But freedom should not be hoarded. It must be used to advocate for those who have none.

As one woman said, persecution could one day come to free nations, and then we may find ourselves needing the prayers and support of others.

How Can the Holy Spirit Be Silenced?

One striking part of their story is how often they were asked—by churches and even a...

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
We shared that the only thingthat really helped both of us when
we were in prison to stand onour faith was Holy Spirit.
So how we are going to nottalk about it?
Not everyone in Americanchurches know and experience true
Christianity.

(00:22):
This is what three Iranianwomen said.
They say that we need to valueour freedom and use our freedom as
American Christians to be thevoice for the persecuted church internationally.
And they say that the onlything that really helped them in
prison was to stand in faithby the power, by the present ministry

(00:47):
of the Holy Spirit to them.
The name of the paneldiscussion was Stories from Religious
Freedom and the Growth of theUnderground Church.
It's on the Family ResearchCouncil website FRC.org and I will
have a link to this discussionon the show notes [e-mail]

(01:07):
Three Iranian women sharedfirsthand about the persecution they
endured for living out theirfaith in their home country.
One woman was arrested anddetained in a men's detention center
in 2009.
During that same year 2009,the two other Iranian women on this
panel were both in prison forpromoting Christianity.

(01:32):
They were detained for 259days in Evan prison in Tehran.
And although they weresentenced to death, the women were
cleared of all charges andreleased from custody.
After international pressureand international intervention, these
three women, their stories arenot unique.

(01:53):
Open Doors USA ranks Iran asthe 9th worst country for Christian
persecution.
I'll have a link to that onthe Show Notes page as well.
My name is Brian Del Turco andwe're asking this question today.
Are we living in the era ofthe Holy Spirit since Christ?

(02:17):
Even though a whole lot of theAmerican church doesn't seem to embrace
it.
Let's hear from these Iranianbelievers now and I'll come back
with a few thoughts.
You know, we did many publicspeakings, mostly in churches since
we moved here and especiallyafter publishing our book in 2013.

(02:39):
And that was the only thequestion at the end we would receive
was that what is your messagefor churches in America?
And you know, when we moved tothe U.S. we thought we are moving
to a Christian country.
Everyone is Christian and theybelieve in Jesus.
But very soon we realized thatnot everyone believes in Jesus Christ
and not everyone knows thetrue Christianity.

(03:00):
It's like in Iran.
You know, most people are justborn as a Muslim.
They don't know Islam and theydon't read the Quran.
I think it's the same in theus People are born as Christians,
but not everyone has personalexperience and personal relationship
with Jesus Christ.
And we always our message toChurches in America is that please

(03:23):
appreciate the freedom youhave in this country, the freedom
of going to a church andfreely worshiping God.
We understand what this means.
As two people, as all of us, Ican say as people who came from a
country that you cannot evensing for God with a loud voice, you
have to be cautious about everything.

(03:45):
This.
The freedom that you have inthis country is a precious gift.
But we also believe that youhave to use this freedom.
You can't just leave yourfreedom and enjoy this freedom.
We have to be a voice forthose people who do not have this
freedom.
One day persecution may cometo the free countries and we might
need help from that part ofthe world.
So please stand up for yourbrothers and sisters and be their

(04:08):
voice.
I would like to share one partpersonal experience.
As Mariam shared, we had thedifferent, you know, picture coming
to the United States, but wespoke after publishing the book.
We spoke in many churches, wetraveled to other countries and we
realized that, you know,especially in the United States,

(04:29):
we spoke in many states, inmany churches, and we realized that,
you know, it's not, you know,like that all Christians are really
true believers.
They invited us for speaking afew times in some churches.
We experienced that.
They came to us before speaking.
They told us, would you pleasenot talk about Holy Spirit?

(04:52):
What not talking about Holy Spirit.
So if you are going toseparate that, what is we are going
to talk about.
We shared that the only thingthat really helped both of us when
we were in prison to start onour faith was Holy Spirit.
So how we are going to nottalk about it?

(05:12):
And it wasn't, you know, justthe churches.
And it was, you know, we hadthis discussion with the publisher
because the publisher, beforepublishing the book, they.
We had this discussion.
They asked us, is it okay tonot print those parts about Holy
Spirit?
And again, we were so shocked.
And at the beginning we didn'tknow why, why they are going to omit

(05:35):
that part.
And they told us, because manypeople in America do not believe
in Holy Spirit.
And we said, okay, we don'tcare if they don't believe in Holy
Spirit.
This is our story.
And I'm not going to change my story.
I'm not going to omit that part.
That how Holy Spirit, youknow, did a lot of miracles in our

(05:58):
lives.
And, you know, it was verystrange for both of us to hear those
things.
And we realized that in somechurches is most about money, business,
and it's not about Jesus, it'snot about Holy Spirit, which was
very disappointing.

(06:18):
Anything you'd like to shareabout that.
I believe you said it all.
It says in Corinthians, itsays, do not forget our brothers
and sisters in prison.
Continue to pray for them.
And as you said, the HolySpirit is the one who helps in prison.

(06:39):
There's so many stories onecan share from what God is doing
in prison.
So, yeah, do please pray forthe Spirit of God to move inside
of the prisons.
I want to share a few thoughtsthat are in my heart about religious
persecution, about identifyingwith those in prison for.
From Matthew 25 and alsoHebrews 13, a few verses there, verses
2 and 3.

(07:00):
But before that, let me talkabout this concept that I'm calling
a theological cognitive biasagainst the Holy Spirit.
That's a mouthful, but atheological cognitive bias against
the full spectrum work andactivity and expression and manifestation
of the third member of theGodhead, the Holy Spirit.

(07:23):
You know, Jesus said it wasactually to our advantage that he
returned to the Father andsend the Holy Spirit.
You can read about this in,like John 14, 15, 16, you know, the
night before he died, Thursdaynight of Passover week, many of the
last words he was leaving withhis disciples were about the Holy
Spirit.

(07:43):
He would teach you all things.
He will show you what is to come.
He will take of what is mineand disclose it to you.
He is another helper of thesame kind as me.
He said to wait in Jerusalemfor the Holy Spirit.
Don't do anything.
Don't move out and do anythingin terms of the commission that I'm
leaving you until you areendued with power by the Holy Spirit.

(08:06):
Jesus warned religious leadersin his day not to speak against the
Holy Spirit.
I want you to really catch thesense of honor and deference that
he gives to the Holy Spirit.
Jesus said, you can speak aword against me as the second member
of the Godhead, the Son ofGod, and be forgiven.
But if you speak a wordagainst the Holy Spirit, you will

(08:28):
not be forgiven.
And if you look at thecontext, if you look at the contextual
arrangement of his teaching inthose verses, he's talking about
religious leaders who wereattributing the works of the Holy
Spirit to demonic powers.
That is the context in whichhe warned us against speaking against

(08:51):
the Spirit.
If you read the Book of Acts.
The Book of Acts is really notjust a historical book of what once
happened.
It's a seminal book.
It's a DNA book.
It's a book of precedent andpatterns for the entire, what I would
call the era of the HolySpirit, the church age.

(09:12):
If you Continue with, likePaul's 13 letters in the New Testament.
Make no mistake about it, it'sChristocentric first, but then there's
so much emphasis upon the Holy Spirit.
And really how do we in ourtime become Christocentric and experience
the fullness of Christ withoutthe fullness of the Spirit?

(09:37):
Paul wrote, I think to theCorinthians, the Lord is the Spirit.
And where the Spirit of theLord is, there is freedom.
Jesus comes to us now via theHoly Spirit.
And yet, if you were to listento a lot of the theological debate
that goes on in North America,and I mean, a lot in a lot of churches

(10:01):
and a lot of denominations andin a lot of institutions of higher
education, it seems they wouldhave us to believe that the Holy
Spirit has been somewhat mutefor the last 15 centuries.
He only now illuminates orgives us understanding on what the
Holy Spirit inspired duringthe Old Covenant and during the first

(10:24):
century when the New Testamentwriters wrote, contend for the faith
once for all delivered.
But that faith in, you know,the faith that was once delivered
in the first century is afaith that includes a full spectrum
ministry of the Holy Spirit.

(10:46):
These voices would have us tobelieve that we're inferior to Old
Covenant saints.
What do I mean by that?
That God, God interacted withOld Testament saints.
He spoke to them.
He did exploits.
They did exploits under thepower of God.
In effect, they would have usto believe that we're inferior to
the first century church.

(11:07):
God no longer talks to us likehe talked to them.
He only talks to us if we canfind a chapter in a verse in the
Bible.
In fact, I mean, it's almostlike God the Father, God the Son
and God the Holy Bible.
You know, the Holy Spirit nolonger does exploits in and through
us like he did in and through them.
All we can do now is readabout it in a book and rely upon

(11:31):
the Holy Spirit to give usillumination only on what he once
said, only on what he once did.
That's all we can hope for,really, from the Holy Spirit.
And yet Paul wrote inCorinthians that we under the new
covenant are now under asuperior covenant whose glory so
far surpasses the glory of theOld Covenant that it's incomparable.

(11:54):
Our experience should be farabove and beyond now on this side
of the cross, this side of theempty tomb, this side of the ascension
of Christ and the session orthe seating of Christ as a king and
the pouring out of his HolySpirit upon the earth.
But they would have us tobelieve that the dynamics of this

(12:14):
new covenant were severelydowngraded when John died and when
the Western church unanimousunanimously agreed on the Canon of
the New Testament.
The 27 books of the NewTestament canon finally resolved
in the 500-00 A.D. so that'swhy I say it seems they would have

(12:35):
us to believe that he issomewhat mute and his ministry to
us has been downgraded for thelast 15 centuries.
We'll talk more about this onthe podcast.
I want to be fair.
I want to be reasonable about it.
I don't want to get, you know,crazy about it, but I just want to

(12:56):
be fair to the scriptures exegetically.
I want to be fair to theexperience of church history, what
many millions of believershave experienced throughout church
history and especially sincethe late 1800s, early 1900s on into
the 21st century.
What's happening globally inSouth America, Africa, Asia, what's

(13:18):
happening in Russia and in America.
It's just that there's a lotof North American, what I call a
theological cognitive biasagainst a full spectrum experience
of the Holy Spirit.
And I am saying that we cannothave a full spectrum experience as
a Christ follower without afull spectrum experience of the Holy

(13:44):
Spirit.
Well, my friend, on the showNotes page, I'm going to have a link
to an article PersecutedMiddle East Christians Petition International
Community, Stand up for yourbrothers and sisters.
This is Decision magazine fromthe Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.
They picked up and theycovered this panel discussion at
the Family research council onFebruary 5th.

(14:05):
I'll have a link to that.
If you just want to go to thewebsite now you can go there.
It's decisionmagazine.com I'llalso have a link again to that full
90 minute or so paneldiscussion directly from the Family
Research Council site I thinkI mentioned.
I'll also leave a link to theopen doors reference to Iran.
And while you're on that site,you could look at other nations as

(14:28):
well.
But here's what they said again.
They are asking these women,these Iranian believers in this panel
discussion are asking theinternational community to step up
to the plate.
Here's what they said again,as people who came from a country
where you cannot even sing forGod with a loud voice, this freedom

(14:49):
that you have in the UnitedStates is a precious gift.
But we also believe that youhave to use this freedom.
You just can't enjoy thisfreedom personally.
We have to be a voice forthose people who do not have this
freedom.
And so what Jesus said inMatthew 25:34 and through 36, he

(15:10):
said then the king will say tothose on his right, come, you who
are blessed of my father,Inherit the kingdom prepared for
you from the foundation of the world.
For I was hungry, you gave mesomething to eat.
I was thirsty, you gave mesomething to drink.
I was a stranger.
You invited me in naked, andyou clothed me sick, and you visited

(15:31):
me.
I was in prison, and you cameto me.
And they will say at thattime, if you go on to read it, when,
Lord, when did we do this?
Like, when were you in prisonwhen you did it to the least of these,
you've done it unto me.
And then, Hebrews, chapter 13,verses 2 through 4.

(15:52):
Do not neglect to showhospitality to strangers, for by
this some have entertainedangels without knowing it.
Remember the prisoners, verse 3.
Remember the prisoners asthough in prison with them and those
who are ill treated, since youyourselves also are in the body of

(16:19):
Christ.
Hey, my friend, Jesus is brilliant.
He's full of light.
I was thinking about Saul ofTarsus when he was blinded by the
appearance of Christ on theroad to Damascus.
His natural eyesight was takenaway for a time.
The light of Christ was so overpowering.
And it's like, lord, in a realsense, do that for me.
Take away not my physicaleyesight, but take away my natural

(16:42):
way of seeing.
Blind me to it with thebrilliance of your light, the brilliance
of your intelligence.
He knows how this life worksbest, starting right now.
And the new heavens and thenew earth are on the way.
So the future is incredibly bright.
We can live right now, beginto live now, in the light of that
horizon, in the life of it, inthe power and authority of it.