An Innocent Man (1989)

Brian and Cargill get locked up with Tom Selleck, his mustache, and a murderer's row of character actors in An Innocent Man!

This movie will hit you like a Sledgehammer. 


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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Some people see through the eyes of the old before
they ever get a look at the y. I'm only
willing to hear you cry because I am an In
a second.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
All right, this is Dick Miller.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
If you're listening to junk food Cinema, who are these guys?

Speaker 4 (01:03):
Even though you didn't do the crime, you're still gonna
serve the time with chunk food Cinema, brought to you
by good Lord, get a better lawyer dot org dot
org dot com dot ain't life a motherfucker? This is,
of course, the weekly Culton Exploitation filmcast. So good it
just has to be fattening. I'm your host, Brian Salas Branham,
joined as per usual by my friend and co host.

Speaker 5 (01:26):
He is a novelist.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
He is a screenwriter, a lieutenant of Mega Force, a
man who was sold to JFC for ten cartons and
some drugs.

Speaker 5 (01:33):
Mister c Robert Cargill, Hi, how's it going, man?

Speaker 6 (01:36):
It's going.

Speaker 5 (01:39):
Dude.

Speaker 4 (01:39):
When we expressed a commitment this year to deep dives
on junk food cinema, this is the kind of insane
horseshit I was hoping we would get into. And I
couldn't be more excited.

Speaker 6 (01:52):
Yeah, yeah, this is I mean that it really is
a matter of me not only sifting through things, but me,
you know, thinking that crazy ass movie I've been wanting
to talk about for ten to eleven years, and like, oh,
you know what, I keep saying this, let me rewatch
that and see if it holds up, and then passing
it to you assuming you had seen it for a

(02:12):
myriad of reasons, only to discover you had no idea
this fucking thing existed.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
I just feel like there are movies that are wild
and bunkers and off the wall for us because they
have you know, like last week's film, they have exploding
bolts and werewolves and you know, all of these insane
you know, other movies have zombies or aliens or whatever
the case may be. This is one of the rare
instances of a movie being completely bugnuts, banana balls and

(02:40):
a straightforward drama at the same time. That is really
difficult to pull off. I feel that maybe it is
the hardest of things to pull off. And yet here
we are. Here we are, but before we venture to
the big house, we have to do some housekeeping, pop keeping.

Speaker 5 (02:54):
You're on junk food Cinema.

Speaker 4 (02:55):
To let you know, that eleven years of this off
the wall Horseshit is available on your favorite pod catcher.
You can also follow us on social media at Junk
Food Cinema pretty much everywhere. And if you really like
the show.

Speaker 6 (03:06):
I mean you really like the show, you.

Speaker 4 (03:08):
Like it as much as I'm loving Tom Selix's look
as the leader of the Latin Kings. Evidently you can
go to patreon dot com slash Junkfood Cinema financially support
the show.

Speaker 5 (03:17):
We greatly appreciate it. That's right.

Speaker 4 (03:20):
When I texted Cargill, what movie are you thinking about
covering this week? He did not waste time asking me
if I had seen nineteen eighty Nine's an Innocent Man.

Speaker 7 (03:29):
Touchstone Pictures presents Tom Selleck if he went to prison
for a crime he didn't commit.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Now he's getting out and fighting for the justice he deserves.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
And innocent Man.

Speaker 6 (03:38):
You know, I mena rate.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
It r It starts Friday, October sixth at a theater near.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
You, Cargil, I think the wildest part about this movie
is the fact that there is a Touchstone Pictures logo
right from Jump Street.

Speaker 6 (03:53):
I mean, it's that, and you know we've been doing
this this podcast for like eleven years, maybe twelve, don't
even know.

Speaker 5 (04:00):
At this point it probably feels like a prison sentence
to you yet.

Speaker 6 (04:02):
But at this point you owe me half a million
dollars in cash, three kilos of drugs, and several teenage girls.

Speaker 4 (04:11):
This is true, and this is why Cargo just got
moved to a soft prison in Texas.

Speaker 5 (04:16):
By the way, I don't know anyone knows about.

Speaker 6 (04:19):
Topical topical, Yeah, no, this is This is one of
those crazy movies that I, honestly I thought you would
have seen it. You and I both have a passion
for prison movies.

Speaker 5 (04:30):
This is true.

Speaker 6 (04:31):
And I am working on a project right now that
I'm not at liberty to talk about, but that is
prison adjacent. And so I am doing what I love
and sitting up late at night drinking whiskey and watching
prison movies. And I was like, I gotta get to
an innocent man at some point. Because I saw this
when it came out, you know, it was It was

(04:52):
a movie I saw right away. This was exactly my
jam at the time, and it's lived rent free in
my head ever since. Certain moments to this movie have
just stuck with me, and so for some reason, I
just assumed that you were you had seen this, and
so I was just like, well, let's cover this. And

(05:13):
then you're like, all right, I'm at work, I got
nothing going on. I'm gonna watch it. And then two
hours later it's like O L Yes.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
It's one of the weird things where I am a
huge fan of Tom Sellick, but I am not what
you would call a Tom Selleck movie guy. Like I
feel like Tom Selick's movie career is vastly overshadowed by
his television work for Goodbad and otherwise, like he's made
some really great he's had. I mean, quickly down Under

(05:42):
is a junk fit cinema alum. It's a movie we love,
for sure.

Speaker 5 (05:45):
But then there's other.

Speaker 4 (05:47):
Tom Selleck movies, like the one where he plays a
jewel thief. What the fuck is the name of that one?
It's just the guy's name. I can't remember it off
the top of my head. That's not super good. There's
the fact that he won a Razzie for playing the
King of King frank Ken, King Ferdinand of Spain in
like fourteen ninety two The Conquest. Like, the guy's film
career is a mixed bag, to say, the least, whereas

(06:09):
most of his television work is beloved and revered.

Speaker 6 (06:13):
This is three men and a baby and mister baseball
eraser and I will not have it. How dare you
shit on her alibi?

Speaker 5 (06:22):
Look? Oh, oh my god, her alibi?

Speaker 6 (06:25):
Her alibi.

Speaker 4 (06:26):
Man, fucking sidebar. So I can't believe I have a
sidebar about her alibi.

Speaker 5 (06:40):
But here we go.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
So I was taking my kid to swim lessons the
other day and it had been a while because we've
been so busy that he'd been there. And the guy
that like manages the front office saw me and goes, oh,
my god, I haven't had a chance to talk to
you in a month. And I was like, oh, oh, okay,
but he said that he had listened to the podcast.
I was like, oh, that's fantastic, and so, you know,
we were just talking and then I told him on
the way out the door. I was like, Hey, this

(07:02):
week we're covering a Tom Sellick legal thriller. And he goes, oh,
you mean the comedy one, right, And I was like,
I'm sorry, what now and he goes, yeah, you're talking
about her alibi, right, And I realized I did not
know what her Alibi was So then I went and
looked it up and I'm like, oh, oh, I hope
that's not the one he thinks we're covering, because the
one we're covering is a lot less funny and has

(07:24):
a lot more prison rape. So I just feel like
the expectation needs something.

Speaker 6 (07:29):
In her Alibi. I would not say quite either of
those things actually funny. I do fight, you know, I am.
I was like, I had to look this up. I'm like, wait,
what movie is he talking about where it's a jewel
thief named after the character? And I'm like, oh, Christopher
Columbus Discovery, But no, you're thinking of lass.

Speaker 5 (07:56):
Oh my god, mister topical topical.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
Oh Lassener, Yes, how many is our alibi?

Speaker 6 (08:07):
Yeah? But did you watch her Alibi?

Speaker 5 (08:09):
I didn't watch Her Alibi.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
I did go down a weird deep dive of Peter
Yates's late eighties courtroom thrillers.

Speaker 6 (08:15):
Well, we'll get to Peter Yates because that's a whole
that's a whole thing.

Speaker 5 (08:20):
That's a whole different can of croll.

Speaker 6 (08:22):
Her Alibi actually lives rent free in my head, chiefly
because it was one of the last live action movies
at the time that was getting a PG rating because
movies were moving into like, if you know, the only
way to get a PG rating for a live action
film was not to have any swears in it at all,

(08:44):
because swearing didn't move to PG thirteen. And so this
was one of those comedies that had like no swearing,
no swearing, no swearing, no violence, and just a you know,
was just a really milk toast, middle of the road
movie that in nineteen eighty nine really felt super bland.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
And I think maybe what you're talking about Cargo mixed
with the three minute of baby, mixed with his work
on like network TV. And you know, my my favorite
TV work that he's done was his recurring role on Friends.
You bundle all that together. And I guess my perception
of Tom Selleck is that he was kind of a
squeaky clean guy and therefore the movies that he chose

(09:24):
to be in were gonna be you know, like, what,
what is the most popular thing he does?

Speaker 5 (09:28):
Now?

Speaker 6 (09:29):
What?

Speaker 4 (09:29):
Fucking blue Blood's right? Yeah, like straight down the middle
CBS drama.

Speaker 6 (09:34):
Well, I mean he is he is the pinnacle of
the tame, quiet conservative Hollywood conservative. Yes, you know, he's
he is very for his entire career, not wanting to
talk politics on occasion when he does, he'll talk policies,
but he won't talk you know, he's not a he's

(09:54):
not one of those out there endorsing candidates. And you
know on Twitter he's like, no, my politics for myself,
and I make movies for you know, people like me.
And so, of course, as he's gotten older, his work
has gotten very conservative, which is fine, but not but
conservative in the way that you know your mom and
dad are conservative, as opposed to the way that you

(10:15):
know you're crazy drunk uncle is conservative. So yeah, but
he has always been squeaky clean. You know, early in
his career he does stuff like you know, we mentioned
Quickly down Under, but I think we did an episode
on Runaway some time ago. We have not oh we
need to do Runaway Runaways rad but you know, that's
very of our of our brand. But then the rest

(10:38):
of this stuff is very accessible. He was making movies
for my mom, and my mom went and saw all
of them, which is how I saw all of them.

Speaker 5 (10:46):
Yeah, and you're right.

Speaker 4 (10:47):
As he goes through his career, Yeah, it seems like
he gets more squeaky clean, like we don't run we
don't get three Minute Baby, three Minute and Little Lady,
Three Men and the Daughters of Satan.

Speaker 5 (10:55):
That's earlier in his career. That's not something that he
carries forward.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
So I guess all of what we're saying, Cargill is
the reason why when you pitch me this movie, I
was expecting it to be how do I put this politely,
the reverse mortgage of prison films.

Speaker 6 (11:09):
I mean, it really feels at times like somebody read
Rita Hayworth in The Shashank Redemption and wanted the rights
to it, but the rights were locked up and because
it hadn't been made yet, and said, well, I'm going
to make my version of the movie. But where where

(11:29):
the people who are responsible for him going to prison
get their come up? And because in one of the
great things about Rita Hayworth in The Shashank Redemption or
just the Shawshank Redemption is the fact that none of
that is relevant, like that, by the time you get
to the end of the movie, it's not about the lying, cheating,

(11:50):
sons of bitches that got him thrown in prison. It's
all about who he becomes in prison. And this is
that two what if? What if you can't let go
and this this goes to such an interesting place. I
when I heard when you told me you had not
seen it, I was just like, oh, oh, there's there's

(12:10):
a part of this movie that is going to just
floor him and he's not gonna be ready for it.
And I can't wait to get those texts.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
I guess that's exactly what I'm saying is And this
sounds like a lot of preamble, but you have to
understand that my experience watching this movie was completely formulated
by expectation, not just of who I knew Tom Selleck
to be, but the opening of the fucking movie sets
an expectation that the rest of the movie does not
deliver on.

Speaker 6 (12:38):
Oh my god. Okay, So the opening of this film
is the one thing that I would tell you if
you pop this on and you have any hesitation, just
trust us on this and get through the schmaltz oh,
because it is positively hallmark movie. For the first three minutes.

Speaker 5 (12:56):
It is a smaalt slicker.

Speaker 6 (12:57):
Oh, it is schmaltzl licker. It is is Hey, we
need to show how good a guy this guy is,
how good he is at his job, and how well
liked he is by everyone around him, and so we
see him on the job at you know, his as
an airline mechanic, being just a genius airline mechanic, also

(13:19):
playing younger than he is. I love there's a great
little lighted here where he's like, how did you you
know he fixes a thing? And how did you know that? Well,
twelve years on the job, Yeah, twelve years there. Yeah,
you're you're you're still in your early thirties there, my man, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (13:35):
Yeah, Cargil.

Speaker 4 (13:36):
I almost declared a mistrial on this episode happening watching
the opening of this this fucking opening, I mean, after
we see the Touchdown Pictures logo, because that's how you
know that Disney wants to get your parents' money too,
Like when the mouse wants to murder, we turn to
touchdowne Pictures and Silver Screen Partners.

Speaker 5 (13:54):
For that's just the way of life. We know this,
We know this.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
However, I was not prepared for this awful generic music
that blairs so loudly over what appears to be a
late eighties American airlines training video that the actors in
the movie are actually having to scream over the score.
Watch the opening of this movie. Every line is delivered
like this, like they're literally screaming over and it's Howard Shure.

Speaker 5 (14:22):
It's like, it's not some hack fucking composer. It's how
fucking sure.

Speaker 6 (14:27):
It needs to be pointed out. Almost everyone attached to
this movie is a fucking legend. Oh, the director, to
the cast, the cast, to the the you know, everyone
involved in this movie. And yes, Howard Shore doing the
score except in the beginning, I hope, Oh.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
No, it's him, and it's a perfect example of his
Mister science theater would say tonight, and when the music
doesn't match the movie, because like, and this is why
I'm sitting down thinking I'm about to watch a made
for TV courtroom drama starring Tom Selleck and scratching my
head wondering why car gill like pushed for this movie.
Right But and again, I know that the music is
not diegetic to the characters in the scene, and they're

(15:07):
probably talking loud because they're working with airplane engines. But
as an audience member, given what I can see in
what I can hear, it looks like they're just competing
with the music. And my god, if that's not bad enough,
when that sexy saxophone hits. You're gonna know one of
two things for certain. Either Howard Shore had this score
in a shoe box under his bed because he couldn't

(15:30):
use it for the movie he wrote it for ten
years before this, or Tom Selleck is about to fuck
this airplane. I don't know which is true, but one
of those two things is true.

Speaker 6 (15:39):
It's the latter.

Speaker 4 (15:40):
I mean, he's about to He's about to pull the
old reverse mortgage on this airplane.

Speaker 6 (15:44):
Oh wo no no when no no no, when no
no no, when no.

Speaker 4 (15:51):
Man Case of Blue Bloods, and he's gonna show it
to this seven thirty seven.

Speaker 5 (15:56):
It is wild held like And I gotta say this too.
I love Tom so like I really do.

Speaker 4 (16:00):
And I like the journey he takes as a performer
by the end of this movie because it was similar
to the journey that I took as an audience member
going through the whiplash of this movie. But his acting
during this prologue is some of the worst I've ever seen.

Speaker 6 (16:15):
Like, the whole prologue feels really fucking strained.

Speaker 7 (16:19):
Ill.

Speaker 4 (16:20):
It lends credence to this being a real American Airlines
training video. The problem is that it's not.

Speaker 6 (16:26):
Yeah, I feel I feel like, because of where this
movie goes, we need to illustrate just how pure this
man is. Yes, he's he is just pure, good old
fashioned American, hard working blue collar man with a woman
who loves him and a nice house in a in
a town, with a job that he's you know, really

(16:48):
good at and that's who he is. And uh and
then uh and then when he goes to prison, well
that's gonna change in some way, and we need to
we need to show a harsh, harsh contrast. And no,
you don't, especially not this harsh emphasis on the word harsh. Yeah,

(17:09):
the first few minutes of this movie pretty pretty nineteen
eighties in the worst way.

Speaker 5 (17:15):
Oh yeah, yeah. And it's funny.

Speaker 4 (17:17):
It's like they're trying to establish now, we don't want
the audience to think that no named Airline Technician one
is the innocent man, or no name Airline Technician two
is the eponymous innocent man. It's probably Tom Selleck. So
we got to establish the shit out of him being
a good dude. And I'm like, Okay, we get it.
And thankfully the movie kind of knows we get it
from that point, because then we're introduced to his home

(17:38):
life his wife in this movie, played by Leila Robbins,
and the two of them just having this great life
in Long Beach, California. I mean, honestly, you'll kind of
hate them a little bit, like their life feels a
little too, a little too sugary and sweet and wonderful.
But then we are introduced to Scalise and Parnell, Yes,
the two of the greatest terrible scumbag cops in cinema history,

(18:02):
played by Richard Young and David Rash respectively. And I
gotta say, cargo, these two actors are the best choices
for when you can't get treat Williams and Rutger howerd
who you clearly really wanted.

Speaker 6 (18:14):
Look, you know, David Rash is a fucking legend, especially
at this particular point in time. You know, he was
just coming off his TV series, which sadly, you know,
only went forty one episodes. If you've never seen sledge Hammer,
you do not know the magic that is David Rash.

Speaker 4 (18:33):
Was that one of the TV openings we watched on
YouTube YouTube until the sun came up all killing a
bottle of Scotch in Denver.

Speaker 6 (18:40):
No, no, no, Because we were watching things that like
only lasted like one season. God, you've never seen Sledgehammer.
Sledge Hammer is police squad for eighties buddy cop movies.
He is Sledgehammer, his name is sledge Hammer. David Rach
plays him. We are in the sidebar right now. He

(19:07):
is dirty, hairy, and he is that over zealous cop
who is an idiot, who has a huge gun and
he blows everyone away. You know what, hold on pause,
You're gonna pause now, go watch the opening for Sledgehammer.

Speaker 4 (19:27):
Google this Rady pulling it up on YouTube.

Speaker 8 (19:32):
A few moments later.

Speaker 6 (19:37):
Bro, So imagine you know, you're in the eighties, you
have watched all forty one episodes of Sledgehammer, you have
laughed your ass off, and then this guy shows up
and now he's playing the bad, dirty cop and it
was like perfect casting at this moment. Great actor, somebody

(19:59):
who's done a budg You're just great, great things. Over
the years, you've seen him a million times, just a great,
storied career.

Speaker 5 (20:09):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (20:09):
You know, his biggest ones are things like in The
Loop United ninety three, burn after Reading Men in Black three.
But in the eighties and nineties he was the guy
who you get as a cop because he had that
bravado and here you are right, they are so slimy.

Speaker 4 (20:26):
Yeah, I want to lay down some uh. I want
to lay down my tracks for that steam Engine. I
want to be Sledgehammer, Like, oh my god.

Speaker 6 (20:33):
You're gonna you're gonna you're gonna mainline that on Pluto
or something and then you're gonna come back to me
and go, we're starting up with Sledgehammer podcast. Welcome to
sledge the Sledgehammer Podcast.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
So welcome back to we know what we're doing, the
Sledgehammer Podcast.

Speaker 6 (20:52):
One sledge minute, Oh.

Speaker 4 (20:54):
My god, every single episode of Sledgehammer, one minute at
a time. Are they still on the on the pillow? Yes,
they are, they are. I fucking love it.

Speaker 5 (21:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:04):
They established him so early, especially Rash's character of just
being coked out of his fucking skull. And then, of
course the guy that plays Scalies Richard Young played Fedora
at the beginning of Indiana Jones in the Last Crusade,
which is probably how most people know him. So you
will recognize them immediately. But you can't sit there and
tell me with a straight face that somebody in that

(21:27):
casting office wasn't like I want treat Williams. I want
Rutger Hower. I don't care how much they cost. Way
how much do they cost? Okay, I want Richard Young
and I want David.

Speaker 6 (21:35):
Rash After these messages, we'll be right back.

Speaker 7 (21:38):
Let me tell you about this beauty.

Speaker 8 (21:41):
It's a gun, and it's scary because I'm scary. Of course,
it's scary on its own, but when I'm holding it,
it's more scarier. You see this on the handle, that's
a sledgehammer. That's me and on the bottom a Global,
A Global g who's a scum that's been putting stickers
on my piece slimeball?

Speaker 5 (22:01):
True Global's got sledgehammer?

Speaker 6 (22:03):
Eight pm, Thursdays, Thursdays Wednesdays. You know. So they are
two aggressive cops. They're not necessarily as they're presented up front,
bad cops. We'll find out later that they're worst cops. Yeah,

(22:24):
but they are going on a drug bust. They are
gonna fuck these guys up. They get the address and
they get the wrong address. I mean, they're given the
right address, but he quotes the wrong address back to
his buddy and they bust the wrong house.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
This is why this movie cannot be remade in the
age of GPS, because I think anytime if you put
if you put in the right address to SERI, you
wouldn't have this fuck up.

Speaker 5 (22:51):
That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (22:53):
Well, I mean the thing is is that they said
they got way and Lane wrong and that would still work,
that would still happen.

Speaker 4 (23:00):
That's actually true. Yeah, series just trying to get people killed.
I don't want to say this too. There are a
few things about this movie that are wildly far fetched.
Oh yes, the frame up that constitutes the inciting incident
of the film, sadly is not one of them. This
feels like the second episode in a Rogue Cargill, where

(23:21):
we are covering bonkers movies, but the society in which
we are currently living makes it relevant and prescient, and
it does that to something that should be utterly preposterous,
the links that these cops go because again they go
in there thinking it's a drug house, they're not there
for nefarious purposes, that they're do their job, but they
fuck up and they raid the wrong house, they inflict

(23:43):
grievous bodily harm on an innocent civilian, and then instead
of admitting the error, they engage in an elaborate conspiracy
to try and paint the innocent person as a criminal
solely to cover their tracks.

Speaker 6 (23:53):
And this is where one of my favorite lines of
the movie is. There's the exchange between the two cops
and one of them, you know, Mike Parnell played by
Dave Brash, is just like, man, you know how many
people in the department are just waiting for us to
step on our dicks, and his partner just goes, we
just stepped on our dick, like like he you know,

(24:17):
he's talking about how people are waiting for us to
make the smallest screw up, and his partner's like, motherfucker,
we just shot somebody. This is the screw up. This
is what happens.

Speaker 4 (24:26):
We just stepped on our dick's squish and accomplished like
it's supper man.

Speaker 6 (24:31):
Yeah, I mean. And so they realize that everybody's out
to get them because they're the super cops, and that's
everyone's waiting for them to screw up. And boy have
they fucked up.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Bat.

Speaker 6 (24:41):
They have shot an innocent person who has no drugs
on them whatsoever. They've gotten the address wrong from an
unreliable source, and they are fucked And so they set
about framing our innocent man.

Speaker 5 (24:56):
And he gets completely rare roaded.

Speaker 4 (24:58):
But before we go any further, I think we have
to go a little bit deeper dive into this cast.

Speaker 6 (25:06):
Well, I mean, really, we should get into this cast
after we talk about what happens next, because the rest
of this cast happen after what comes next.

Speaker 5 (25:16):
That's true, That's very true.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
So yes, Scalis and Parnell decide that, you know, they
bust into the house, they shoot poor tom Selik and
his tidy whities while he's holding a hair dryer, and
so they plant drugs.

Speaker 5 (25:26):
They plant a gun.

Speaker 4 (25:27):
They while he's unconscious from the gunshot, they make him
fire the gun to this gunshot.

Speaker 5 (25:31):
They actually go to great lengths.

Speaker 4 (25:33):
To make sure that this whole story is founded by evidence,
and they railroad him through the system, and both Tom
Selleck and his mustache are sentenced as co conspirators to
six years in state prison. And it's at this state
prison where we meet the hero of this movie. Like

(25:53):
I know, the movie is actually technically about Tom Selleck
as James Jimmy Rainwood, but it's the real star of
this movie we don't meet until we get to prison.
And that character is Virgil Kane played by the incredible
f Murray Abraham.

Speaker 6 (26:09):
And he has. If you were to assemble a prison
gang of people you could get to do one or
two lines each in the movie It and have them
all come from Mount Junk Food. It would be this gang.

Speaker 4 (26:28):
Yes, absolutely, when in fact, Cargill, it's reminding me of
a game I invented a few years ago called F
Murray Kill, where basically you name three character actors and
then you decide which one you want to f, which
one you want to marry, and which one you want
to have F Murray Abraham kill. It's a game called
F Murray Kill. And in this particular gang, you can

(26:48):
play F Murray Kill with F Murray Abraham, Tobin Bell
and mc fucking ganey. Wait wait wait mc.

Speaker 6 (26:56):
Ganey and Dennis Berkley.

Speaker 5 (26:58):
And Dennis Tennis fucking Cargil. This is a gang.

Speaker 6 (27:05):
This is the gang that we put together if we
were putting together a gang.

Speaker 4 (27:09):
I understand that Tobin Bell and mc ganey mc ganey
are the superstars of this gang behind F Murray Abraham.
But I encourage you, I beg you, I beseech you
all not to sleep on Dennis Berkley. This is a
man weirdly important to the nineties and weirdly relevant to

(27:30):
me personally because of one line in one film that
became not only not only ubiquitous around the halls of
my house as a child, but trailer gold for years. Stu, No, no, no,
It's in the trailer for Suburban Commando Rip Hulkogan.

Speaker 6 (27:48):
Okay, I was going for a bad film and you
pulled that a worse.

Speaker 4 (27:51):
Yeah, I do that. That's that's my job on this show. Ah,
the Scorpion of the Toad Cargil. You are going to
sync with me, don't worry about it. Look, there is
a line in that trailer where where Dennis is in
a conflict with hul Cogan and hol Cogan's like and
and Dennis is like, you know what we're gonna do
to you? And Holkogan's like, you're gonna pound my face brother,

(28:11):
And Dennis is like, what are you crazy?

Speaker 5 (28:13):
This is the nineties. We're gonna sue you.

Speaker 4 (28:16):
And that line, for some reason, it was it was
like the big joke at the end of the trailer.
And that trailer played on so many VHS tapes that
I watched, and I watched that movie that that is
who that person is for me. For the rest of
my life. He is We're gonna sue you guy in
Suburban Command. And forget the fact that this is a
man who just in the nineties was in Lombarda, The
Doors Sidekicks, Son in Law, Tin Cup con Air. I

(28:39):
could go on and on and on and on. He
is the portly biker in so many movies, and he's
fucking great at it. But Dennis Berkley is the name
I feel most people don't know and is a guy
who is weirdly important to me.

Speaker 6 (28:51):
I love him in Pastiano.

Speaker 5 (28:53):
Oh of course, yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 (28:56):
Uh and uh yeah. He incredible career. But this is
these three men are the core of E. F. Murray
Abraham's prison gang.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
Ain't life a motherfucker that this is his prison gang.

Speaker 6 (29:12):
This is why this movie has lived rent free in
my head for you know, thirty five plus years. This
this was you know, for me, I adored this film
seeing it when I was young, and it held up
enough to talk about. You know, there's certainly things that
did not hold up, as we talked about with the opening,

(29:33):
but the performances here are just astounding. This is this
is one of those things where you get this great
cast who are playing this gang, and you get this
guy who's a tough nut but is not going to
survive in prison.

Speaker 5 (29:52):
So square, he's got corners.

Speaker 6 (29:53):
Yeah yeah. And the thing is is that he's doing
you know, and and this is it's that classic. He's
just a good old fashioned, wholesome conservative guy who is
is gonna stand his ground but and won't let anybody
push him around. But he's not gonna hurt anybody. He's
not gonna do any do wrong by anybody. And he

(30:14):
ends up getting in and falling in with with an
idiot and.

Speaker 5 (30:22):
He oh, yeah, you're talking about Robbie.

Speaker 6 (30:25):
Robbie.

Speaker 5 (30:26):
Oh poor Robbie. Justice for Robbie.

Speaker 6 (30:28):
Joe, Oh, I don't know, man, Robbie had it coming.

Speaker 5 (30:32):
Robbie did steal some smokes, don't get me wrong.

Speaker 6 (30:34):
That's Robbie. Is played by Todd Graff, who is really
good here. You'll know him from a number of things. Again,
one of those one of those classic character actors. Strange days.
The Abyss you know, did a lot of work back
in the in the eighties and nineties.

Speaker 4 (30:51):
A lot of his movies actually sound like the nicknames
of the guys who killed him.

Speaker 5 (30:55):
In the yard. Do you know what I mean? Like exactly,
Todd Graf.

Speaker 4 (30:58):
Yeah, it just sounds like all the hell of the
movies you mention and it spends like Strange Days shived
him and then the abyss dumped the lighter fluid on him.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (31:05):
Well, there's literally a character in this movie called hand jops,
So of course you're not far You're not far from it.
But yeah, so he falls in with Robbie. Robbie has
stolen from somebody and they're not having it. And Robbie
gets stabbed and burned to death in the yard and
what can water balloon?

Speaker 4 (31:24):
Cargil I knew that we were on another level with
this movie when a water balloon full full of lighter
fluid gets broken out, like.

Speaker 6 (31:33):
You know what I mean? And then he gets set
on fire, and at that moment you're like, what movie
did Cargill just tell me to watch?

Speaker 4 (31:40):
He gets flame broiled like a Whopper Junior like right
in the middle of the yard.

Speaker 6 (31:45):
And then Tom Selleck runs to help him. F Marie
Abraham Virgil Kane tackles him to the ground. He's like,
what the fuck are you doing? Do you want to
get killed? Two and at that moment, Jimmy Rainwood knows
exactly how up fucked creaky is.

Speaker 4 (32:00):
Yeah, And that's the thing again, what we're talking about
here is the establishment and then shattering of expectations. Whereas
I thought from the opening, we were watching a made
for TV courtroom drama slash American Airlines training video, Bam,
Robbie goes up like a candle, and from this point
forward the movie becomes blood in mustache.

Speaker 5 (32:20):
Out oh bite. And I was not prepared for that.
I was not prepared cargo.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
I did not expect to see a prison yard murder
in a Tom Sellick film. I would never expect it
to hear the N word so many times in a
Tom Selleck movie.

Speaker 6 (32:36):
Did you ever expect to see Tom Sellick shake a
dude in a bathroom?

Speaker 4 (32:41):
I similarly did not expect a Tom Selick movie to
follow him across a character arc of learning to kill
a man so that he tom Selik does not get
anally raped. None of these things were on my BINGO
card for an innocent man.

Speaker 6 (32:55):
Well, this is the Tom Selleck I've lived with for
thirty six years of my life, so I've had a
slightly different view of Tom Selleck. I mean, once you
see an innocent man, three menute of baby movies read
totally different.

Speaker 4 (33:11):
Oh, this is three hundred men to prison baby. That's
what we're dealing with here. And he's the prison baby
and I don't like it. I don't like it at all.

Speaker 6 (33:18):
Yeah. So what ends up happening is Jimmy runs a
foul of a very bad dude running a black gang,
and they've decided they're gonna harass him until he becomes
their bitch.

Speaker 5 (33:32):
Yeah. This is a character named Jingles played by Bruce Young.

Speaker 4 (33:35):
And I have to say, if there is a content
warning about this movie, it's racial politics. Let's just say,
are a little bit wrongheaded, where literally the it's not
just that the one gang participating in the regular raping
of other inmates is the black gang. It's not just

(33:56):
that the other inmates routinely use the in word against
the black gang and talk about how the black gang
is the worst element in the prison. It's that the
movie seems to kind of agree with that sentiment at times.

Speaker 5 (34:07):
Which is ikey.

Speaker 4 (34:08):
It bounces back from it, but there are there are
gonna be a few moments where you're just like, I'm
not sure about this.

Speaker 6 (34:15):
I don't I don't know if I agree with that
read of the movie.

Speaker 5 (34:20):
I hope I'm wrong, because it felt icky at times.

Speaker 6 (34:22):
Because my my, my read of this film has always
been that there are multiple people like this in prison,
and these are the guys who are fucking with him.
It's brought up that, you know, these guys are not special,
they are not alone. They've just chosen to, you know,
pick on him. And he's told there's only one way out.

(34:43):
You know, they're technically two ways out. One you become
their bitch, and you do whatever you know is necessary
for them. You work for them for the rest of
your life. Like they literally come up and say, hey,
you're all your money that goes to the canteen that's
ours now you know you're just paying us, and like
literally they're about to take over his whole life and

(35:03):
there's nothing he can do unless he fights back. But
fighting back against a gang isn't gonna work. And it's
that that that trope that happens in a lot of
good prison movies, which is you, you know which devil
do you want to lay in bet with? You know
who are you gonna? You know, who are you gonna
side with and are you gonna go with a group

(35:25):
that they never say it out right, but you get
the impression that there's some white power tattoos on some
of these characters.

Speaker 5 (35:33):
Oh. Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
But my problem is, and I guess what I'm what
I'm saying from a personal level is just this. I
have now started to understand the value of the preposterously
integrated multicultural gangs from the eighties action movies of my youth,
because it allows me to not feel the white guilt
that I felt watching something like An Innocent Man, where
you're absolutely right there are gangs that will just drop

(35:56):
the inWORD and talk about them, and obviously are are
also evil people, but the actions depicted within the movie,
the most heinous actions are being carried out almost solely
by the one and the antagonistic gang is the black gang,
and it's all the black guys banded together. So I
feel like, maybe inadvertently, at least, the movie's politics are

(36:18):
a little bit dunderheaded. And again, this is a movie
from nineteen eighty nine, so it should be a little
bit expected. But it did give me a little bit
of the ick, is all I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (36:26):
Okay, I could feel that I feel. I just I
guess I personally always read things into some of the
other dialogue in this movie, and like the you know,
the characters were supposed to like who we do like
are also not good dudes.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
Oh of course, but we have we have Fbury Abraham, who,
by the way, Cargil, you mentioned his performance in this movie.
I was aware that you could brew wine in the
toilet of a prison cell. I didn't realize you could
bake scenery in that toilet and then eat it.

Speaker 6 (36:56):
Oh.

Speaker 5 (36:56):
Yes, holy shit. He is loving this role so much.

Speaker 6 (37:00):
I mean, I don't know why they even bother. You know,
with the guards. He can just chew his way out.

Speaker 4 (37:06):
Just chew it a little bit at a time, and
then you know, you don't even have to deposit it
in the prison. You'ard like the dirt. You just swallow
it and then you make that tunnel and you get
out of there.

Speaker 6 (37:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (37:15):
Yeah, that's all he had to do.

Speaker 4 (37:16):
He is loving this role and I am loving him
for it. And actually, in our research, Dostie, something I
found out about him that I didn't know is that
apparently he was filming Scarface and Ahmadaeus at the same
time between Prague and Los Angeles.

Speaker 5 (37:29):
He had to make four round trip flights to film
both of those at the same time.

Speaker 6 (37:34):
Got tracks.

Speaker 5 (37:35):
That's a mat What a fucking life.

Speaker 6 (37:37):
What a life, dude. You know. The thing is what
I find interesting is I remembered this movie weirdly because
this isn't a prison film.

Speaker 5 (37:50):
No.

Speaker 6 (37:51):
No. I mean, once he's in prison, we're like, all right, well,
the rest of the movies him in prison and what happens,
And it's like, no, the second act is prison.

Speaker 5 (38:00):
The second of four acts, I would argue, is prison.

Speaker 6 (38:02):
And then he's going to get out and after the
transformation that occurs in prison, And that is what's so
fascinating about this movie is man, does Tom Selleck become
fucking hard?

Speaker 5 (38:17):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (38:17):
Yeah, to the point that after he gets out, he's
having conversation with his fiance and there's a moment where
he's like, you don't know what I've become. And it's
a very cliched line, you know, it's something we've seen
in a lot of movies, except that you, as the
audience member, like, oh, she has no idea what you've
done in prison? No idea, and she would not look

(38:39):
at you the same if she really knew, and she's like,
tell me, I want to know, and it's like, no, baby,
you do not want to know what this man had
to do to survive because it was not fun, it
was not cool, and none of it should be admired.

Speaker 4 (38:53):
Look much like Sergeant al Palla die Hard, this is
the heroic story of a man who digs down deep
and despite his setbacks, finds the courage to commit murder.
And I actually buy all of this one Like, this
is the part I thought once I knew that that
that's where we were going with this movie, is how

(39:14):
it was about prison changed him. And we'll get to
the irony of the title in just a second. But
I bought all of that. The only thing that was
still a little bit hard for me to wrap my
head around. And maybe this is just because I've never
actually been to prison, so my privilege is showing a bit.
I don't understand why the prison gang chooses Tom Seleek,

(39:35):
mister baseball brick shit house to be their quote unquote kid, Like,
why is that the guy that you're like, we're gonna
break him and we're going we're gonna make him our bitch,
Like that dude's fucking enormous. It has a giant mustag.
Like I just it would not be the guy that
I'd be like, yeah, we can fuck with him. I
don't maybe just because he's square, I guess, but he's

(39:55):
fucking huge.

Speaker 6 (39:56):
It's a choice. But the thing that, the thing that
you think wouldn't make the most sense also makes a
lot of sense. Why f Murray Abraham takes an interest
in him?

Speaker 5 (40:08):
Oh yeah, no, that guy get total.

Speaker 6 (40:11):
Yeah yeah yeah, because why is he protecting him? Why
does he like give him information? Why is he helping him survive?
Because he's the protagonist. No, because the guys that busted
Jimmy also fucked up Virgil's life. Yes, and Virgil is
not innocent. He's straight forward. He's like no, no, no, I'm
a bad guy. But what these guys did was fucked up,

(40:34):
and I'm gonna use you to get to them.

Speaker 5 (40:38):
It's beautiful and again, yet.

Speaker 6 (40:40):
Because this movie is a revenge movie against bad cops.

Speaker 5 (40:45):
It is, and.

Speaker 6 (40:46):
That's what this movie is. It is not a prison movie.
It is not a story of an innocent man. It
is not you know, about a man keeping his soul.
It is about a guy who's got a nice job
and a nice fiance and a nice life, and then
a couple of cops fuck it up and he decides
he's gonna get him some revenge. But in order to
get there, he's got to start shanking people in prison.

Speaker 5 (41:08):
First, look the title of this film. It can't be.

Speaker 4 (41:12):
Look, this can't be a movie about an innocent man,
because if it were, the title would be completely ironic.
Because while Jimmy, yes it was entirely innocent of the
crime for which he was accused and sentenced to prison.
In prison, he's forced to shed that innocence to survive,
and once he does, he becomes a legend in the yard,
Like he becomes the guy that everybody's afraid of.

Speaker 5 (41:31):
Once he finally summons.

Speaker 4 (41:33):
The courage to stab a shank into the heart of
mister Jingles or whatever the fuck that guy's name is, like.

Speaker 6 (41:40):
Break off the handle, drop it down the drain, and
then do his hard time because everyone knows he did it,
but they can't prove it. And then he comes out
of the hole and nobody fucks with him after that.

Speaker 4 (41:52):
Look, you may be sitting there thinking yourself, why would
anyone waste their time on a nineteen eighty nine prison
drama starring Tom Selleck. But let me just put forward
this notion to you. There is a lot of similarity
in the structuring of the preparation to kill Jingles in
an Innocent Man, as there was Clemenza teaching Michael how
to institute a hit in the First Godfather. And of

(42:14):
those two scenes, when you think about them, when the
executions occur, was it Tom Selleck or was it Michael
Corleone who heeded the information and followed the execution to
a tea? Because I got news for you, Michael Corleone
fucked up everything Clemenza.

Speaker 5 (42:28):
Told him, and Tom Selleck carried out that prison hit
to a t.

Speaker 6 (42:34):
Yes, he did. So this is going back to what
I said about forty five minutes ago. This is like
somebody read Rita Hayworth in The shawsh Ank Redemption and
got angry at all the things of the sisters messing
with him and wondering, why doesn't he just fucking shank
a motherfucker. He's in prison, what are they gonna do?

(42:54):
And so you know what, I'm going to write the
movie about that guy actually getting the cops, actually getting
the guys fucking with him. In prison. Nobody's gonna fuck
with this guy. It is. And also it highlights why
Shaw sh Ankredemption is an infinitely better film and just
one of those greatest movies ever made, because the battle
to maintain your soul is sometimes more interesting than becoming

(43:19):
the you know, just as bad as everybody else at
the same time, it's still fucking awesome.

Speaker 4 (43:26):
And think about how awesome it would be to have
Morgan Freeman narrating this movie, Like you get to this
scene and he's just like two things never happened again
after that day. Jingles never messed with Tom Selleck, and
no one ever mentioned again that Tom Selleck was supposed
to play Indiana Jones, Like they never teased him about
that again, Like you know, it just.

Speaker 5 (43:44):
It would make this movie a hundred times better.

Speaker 6 (43:47):
But yeah, this is the I mean, that's what this
movie is missing and legitimately missing is f Murray Abraham
doing the narration.

Speaker 5 (43:56):
Oh he would f Murray up some narration in this.

Speaker 6 (43:59):
Movie, Yes he would.

Speaker 5 (44:01):
Oh, I would love to hear that.

Speaker 6 (44:02):
After these messages, We'll be right back. Charlie Wilcox is
having a bad day.

Speaker 7 (44:09):
But hell is on the way and his name is
Chef Ramsey, I'm.

Speaker 6 (44:14):
Hearing the apartment, Subourbon Commando. All right, it's for you.

Speaker 7 (44:18):
It's Hulk Hogan, like you've never seen him before, skateboarding,
child raising, crime fighting. Charlie Wilcox has just discovered the
solution for all life's problems.

Speaker 8 (44:30):
Leave a messenger to take a seat.

Speaker 4 (44:33):
I said, take a seat, funny, that's real fun.

Speaker 6 (44:36):
Sometimes I just get hurt of just your landlord. I
bring you an extra bars, so when you need it,
bring the targets.

Speaker 4 (44:42):
Barny honness is a little out of my life.

Speaker 5 (44:44):
I was frozen today, Hulk Hogan.

Speaker 6 (44:46):
What a nervous god.

Speaker 7 (44:48):
Christopher Lloyd, Subourbon Commando, you've got.

Speaker 6 (44:51):
Any idea what we're gonna do to you? You're gonna
pound my face Nia, We're gonna see hi.

Speaker 4 (45:04):
This is the part in the movie, like this prison
is is so weirdly run that you know, he gets
beaten up by the Black gang and because he won't
tell the warden who it was that beat him up,
he gets sent to what they call segregation. And look,
I know the research dossier indicates that this filming location
was you know, they filmed this movie at the Old

(45:27):
Hamilton County Jail in Cincinnati, Ohio, which was also known
as the Cincinnati Workhouse. It was permanently closed prior to
the location filming of this movie, which means it was
just closed. But it was built during the Civil War
to house enemy troops, So they literally had been operating
this prison from the Civil War to the early eighties,
and you know, the police agencies used it as a
jail after that, and you know as late as the

(45:49):
seventies it was closed because it was inhumane, cruel, and unusual.
So I understand that we are we're operating in a
filming site that is already out of date by nineteen
eighty nine.

Speaker 5 (45:58):
But even no that the segregation thing that he gets.

Speaker 6 (46:03):
Sent to, it's why they call it the hole.

Speaker 5 (46:06):
It's the hole.

Speaker 4 (46:07):
It is literally this prison's version of solitary confinement. It's
a gate built into a fucking rock. And I'm pretty
sure the last time it was opened was when the
Centurion saw that Jesus was gone. Like, this thing feels
absolutely goddamn biblically old, like, even with f Mary Abraham
later in the movie saying I've been doing time since

(46:28):
Jesus was a baby. I'm like, was it out there
was it out in segregation, because that.

Speaker 5 (46:33):
Literally looks like the fucking dude.

Speaker 4 (46:36):
It was the three f Murray Wiseman who traveled to
Bethlehem to bestow the gifts of acting on the Messiah.
We all know this. We've all read the same books people.
It's called Rita Hayworth and the first Noel. It's an
amazing book. Being in prison when Tom Selleck might have
broken my brain, it's a little bit possible that I

(46:57):
have a little bit of uh of home syndrome here.
But yeah, after he carries out this hit, obviously uh oh.
By the way, we're not even really talking about the
scene that finally pushes him over the edge, finally takes
him from an innocent man wrongfully in prison to the
person who has to do things in prison to survive.

(47:17):
And that is the scene that really fucked with my brain,
really shattered the expectation. And it was literally the black
gang brings tom Selick into this room off of the
weight room to show them all gang raping another prison bitch,
just to let him know what he's in for. I
could not believe that this scene was in a Tom

(47:40):
Sellick movie. I still think that maybe I dreamed this
and it didn't really happen.

Speaker 6 (47:45):
The thing is is, while it is a Tom Sellick movie,
what we only mentioned in passing and we should get
to is this is a Peter Yates movie.

Speaker 5 (47:54):
This is a Peter Yates movie.

Speaker 6 (47:55):
And Peter Yates made some of the hardest movies to
ever fucking hard like. He started as a TV director
and did some cool stuff like The Saint and Secret Agent,
but he directed Bullet Bullets. He directed Murphy's War, The
Hot Rock. I love the Hot So to what we
got to take a drink? Junkie ones that in the
next movie we need to cover the friends of that

(48:17):
el I mean this guy, Mother Jugs and Speed, The Deep,
Breaking Away Eyewitness, one of our favorites of all time. Krull,
You know, this is one of the movies he was
making later in life. This is one of those later
in life movies. You know he had been around for
a while, you know, and you can see this is

(48:40):
one of those movies of an aging director where you
can really see the old style of filmmaking present for
better and for worse. Sure, but he's still Peter Yates
and still goes hard and takes this movie and the
prison stuff in this movie Fox, it.

Speaker 5 (48:58):
Is quite literally and h uncomfortably. Yes.

Speaker 6 (49:01):
I mean, the thing is is that the reason why
this movie has lived in me so long is it
is part of the reason I do love prison movies.
Is a great prison movie really kind of puts your
protagonist through the ringer, fucks with them and doesn't just
you know, show the It's not about the boredom of
the lifestyle or trying to fill the hours. It's about

(49:22):
the really really dark stuff that we like to pretend
in society doesn't happen behind bars. Yea, And this movie,
Yates goes hard into it. You know, he digs deep
and yeah, he gets really bleak at times, and yeah,
that moment, that scene when it kind of cracks him,

(49:43):
you're with him. And that's the thing about this movie
is you're never like, no, no, don't do it. You're
gonna you know, you're never gonna be the same again.
You're like, fucking stab him, stab him and break the
handle off, do it.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
So Yeah, if you've only known Tom Selleck from his
TV work, please advised that you might go into this
thinking it's blue Bloods behind bars, but in reality, it's
animal Factory PI and just be aware of that transition.

Speaker 6 (50:10):
Weirdly, Animal Factory is the film that lives next to
an innocent man in my head.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
I fit, dude, I could hear it. You didn't even
have to say it. I could hear it rattling around
up there.

Speaker 6 (50:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (50:19):
I could hear Eddie Furlong and Eddie Bunker, the two
Eddies of prison films. Of course, just like having it
out in there in your brain, and Danny trey Hoe
is there, absolutely, you know he's gotta be there.

Speaker 6 (50:31):
Yeah, this is this movie. Danny trey Hoe is just
starting to do tech advising stuff else or else he
would have been in this movie.

Speaker 4 (50:39):
By the way, Speaking of Peter Yates, we've mentioned some
of his really like big flagship Pullmark movies.

Speaker 5 (50:45):
I became real after seeing this movie.

Speaker 4 (50:47):
I became a little bit obsessed about his weird late
eighties crime film run because he has this in eighty nine.
Prior to that he did The House on Carroll Street,
and prior to that he did a movie called Suspect
with Cher and Dennis Quaid yep and possibly like this
is a man who had worked with young Liam Neeson
and young Wild Liam Neeson and I thought, no way,

(51:07):
you could have a more wild Liam Neeson than you
had to crawl. And then I saw the Liam Neeson
that's in Suspect, who is a deaf, mute, homeless man
who at the beginning of the film looks like a
jabberwockie like this, we might have to watch this movie,
and just like it's.

Speaker 6 (51:24):
Oh, I've seen it, Okay, you.

Speaker 4 (51:27):
Remember, I don't want to spoil anything, so I'm just
gonna say this. Do you remember the big twist of
that movie and how it all wraps up?

Speaker 6 (51:33):
I don't.

Speaker 5 (51:33):
Oh my god, go back and watch it. It's fucking nuts.

Speaker 4 (51:36):
But what I loved about it is I'm like, this
is a weird but very specific run of films for
Peter Yates in which he's doing all these crime films
in the late eighties, and all of them are so
infinitely watchable, even at their most bug nuts and weird,
they're so infinitely watchable.

Speaker 5 (51:52):
And I have to tip my hat to him for that.

Speaker 4 (51:54):
Yeah, yeah, I would love to cover Suspect, because it's
another fuck Like when you read the trivia for that movie,
it's all about how every single person in that movie
did an ungodly amount of research and spent so much
time with lawyers and jurors and judges and homeless people,
like literally every single movie. Every single actor on that
movie went method and I don't think they had.

Speaker 6 (52:14):
Too I honestly, and I'm gonna say this right now,
I have a feeling there's a Yates month coming up, ah,
because I've we've never covered Bullet.

Speaker 4 (52:24):
Welcome to Yates of Heaven. We're covering our favorite Peter
Yates movies we haven't covered yet.

Speaker 6 (52:28):
We've not covered the Hot Rocker Friends of Eddie Coyle,
We've not covered Deep Mother Jugs and Speed is such
fun fucking movie.

Speaker 5 (52:37):
I'm gonna stop you right now.

Speaker 4 (52:38):
I don't know what that is and I want to
cover it based on the title alone.

Speaker 6 (52:42):
Oh oh oh, you mean you've never seen the ambulance
movie in with three ambulance drivers being Bill Cosby, Harvey
Kaitel and Raquel welch.

Speaker 4 (52:52):
Ooh yeah, that's that's gonna be a sticky one.

Speaker 6 (52:56):
Oh but but you know what makes it sticky is
Harvey Keitel Lassener, bad bad lieutenant.

Speaker 4 (53:07):
Sorry, Lassener's just my new phrase for any time you
can rip all joke on me. Lasser there it is
Oh my god, Oh yeah, we could totally do a
Yates month, but yeah, just what a weird specific run
in the late eighties to be like, what if I
just did crime films for like four solid years.

Speaker 6 (53:24):
I mean, keep in mind that he you know, he's
a guy who was always chasing the zeitgeist. If you
look at that career, you know, in the late sixties,
what is he making late sixties, early seventies hardcore crime films, Yeah,
which were which were the rage? And then what does
he turn around and do in the early eighties a
big sci fi fantasy film because that's what the rage was.

(53:47):
And then the bottom fell out of those fantasy movies
and we drove dove headfirst into reality and we wanted
reality from films in the late eighties. We've talked about
this many times. So what does he do. He goes
back to crime films, But he goes back to crime
films with the eighties sensibility, not his sixties sensibility. He's
not doing the cold blooded killer you know kind of movies.

(54:08):
He's not doing the hardcore where we're siding with the
criminals kind of thing. He's doing the kind of thrillers
that everybody's making at the time. So he's always following
along with the zeitgeist. Now, whether he's part of creating
it or following along requires a much deeper dive and
getting into his biographical information, but he's always there doing

(54:31):
what everybody is wanting at the time. Because many of
those films I mentioned, like you've never heard of mothers
Peede big hit back in the day and was one
of those meme movies that would come up because it
was a weird, wonderful little thing where that people used
to watch for Bill Cosby and now you watch for
Harvey Kayitel. But yeah, it's you're.

Speaker 5 (54:53):
Gonna step in on your dick, Harvey Kaititel, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 6 (54:57):
But yeah, he did an amazing work and he does
really good work here and this movie has just stuck
with me for so long. So all of that to
get to our third act.

Speaker 5 (55:08):
No, no, no, this is the fourth act.

Speaker 4 (55:10):
This movie has a four act structure because the end
of the third act is when Tom Sellek has you know,
murdered Jingles, become king of the Yard and literally dresses
at the end of this movie like he's a member
of the Latin Kings. He's got the big ray bands,
he's got the blue work shirt that I swear to God,
if they pan down just a little bit, the last
three buttons would probably be open. Like he's literally dressed

(55:33):
like a character from Bound by Honor flood Out.

Speaker 5 (55:37):
For God's sake, what is happening here?

Speaker 6 (55:40):
But it's almost like those movies were made at the
same point in history.

Speaker 4 (55:43):
It's almost like that is definitely almost like that. But
he gets his release, he gets paroled from prison and
goes back to his life on the outside, which in
any other prison movie, that would be the rest of
the movies. Him just learning to adapt to being on
the outside, right. But these fuck cops who have gotten
away with it, who have absolutely gotten away with it,

(56:04):
can't stop fucking with him or his fiance or you know.
An actor we haven't mentioned yet in this movie, Badja Jola,
who plays John Fitzgerald, the internal affairs guy, who is
pretty sure the entire movie that, in fact, Parnell and
Scalies are dirty because he's been chasing them for years.
I thought his performance in this was was really, really good.
I liked him a lot in this movie.

Speaker 6 (56:24):
Oh yeah, yeah, before we get to it. There's one
other last actor we haven't mentioned that's a legend. Oh yeah,
so very appearance in here. Philip Baker Hall is the
judge one scene.

Speaker 5 (56:35):
He gets one scene in this movie.

Speaker 6 (56:37):
But he but you know, it's like, oh hey, here's
Philip Baker Hall doing what he does best, showing up
and just bringing the gravitize.

Speaker 4 (56:44):
The movie is so stacked, it's like, we need a
judge for one scene. What actor should we get? How
about Philip Baker fucking Hall?

Speaker 5 (56:51):
Sure?

Speaker 4 (56:51):
Why not?

Speaker 6 (56:52):
I mean, look, when you're giving one line to Tobin Bell.

Speaker 5 (56:56):
You know, line isn't I want to play a game
that's correct? Crazy how that works?

Speaker 6 (57:05):
But yeah, so, uh now I would argue that it's
not that they won't leave them alone. It's that, uh
that uh Jimmy's fiance won't let up trying to get
him released, writing letters, appealing to to the police, trying
talking to uh internal affairs about what happened. Is she

(57:26):
knows this is bullshit, and they are pissed because she
won't let it go, and so they try to kind
of bring the hammer down on her and that only
makes things worse. And of course, as we find out
f Murray Abraham's Virgil Kane lone ranger and got nothing
on him. Yuh he uh. These cops really fucked with

(57:49):
him and if I remember correctly killed his girlfriend right.

Speaker 5 (57:52):
Yes, during during a bust, yes, and uh.

Speaker 6 (57:55):
And so he wants them gone. And so when Tom
Selle gets out of prison, but we also find out
that one of the other guys got out of prison too.
Mc gainey also got out at some point and is
there to work with him and their buddies from prison
now and they start stalking the cops and setting up
the cops in what is a phenomenal third act heist

(58:20):
slash setup.

Speaker 4 (58:21):
I'm still gonna call it the fourth act because the
final act was revenge, if admittedly a convoluted plot to
achieve revenge.

Speaker 6 (58:33):
I would love to agree with you on that. But
the prison stuff flies by so quickly that it doesn't
feel like you're actually at the end of a movie.
It's not like you know, Speed or or Casino Royale,
where you're like, you get to the end of the
movie and you're like, oh, that was great, Wait this

(58:53):
more movie? What no, no, no, But.

Speaker 4 (58:55):
I get what you're saying. But there are three acts
before this. They may be abridged. I'll agree with you
with that ud percent on that, but it's a whole
fucking movie that wraps up before we get to this
next movie.

Speaker 5 (59:05):
And the other thing.

Speaker 4 (59:05):
Speaking of method acting, by the way, apparently mc ganey
was high on cocaine during his audition for this movie,
and I have to imagine if he got pulled over Hell,
he told the cops it was just research for this role, right, Like,
there's no there's no way those two things that started
at the same time. Come on, mc ganey, you're better
than that.

Speaker 6 (59:25):
It was the eighties, everyone was on coke.

Speaker 4 (59:28):
But this plot, Okay, so Tom Sellig and mc ganey
are gonna set up the corrupt cops, who they know
are basically couriers for the local mob boss. So what
they're gonna do is they're gonna use the same snitch
that the corrupt cops use as a false witness to
get Tom Sellick convicted. That same now, under coercion by
Selig and Giney snitch is going to tell these corrupt cops,

(59:49):
oh yeah, uh, here's cocaine by some some guys that
are uh this guy who is a competitor to the
mob boss, you can go bust him and take his
his coke. So turns out, nope, the guys you busted
work for the mob boss. And then seligan ganny robbed
the cocaine from the Corrup cops. After the Corrup cops
learned that they busted uh coke, they busted two guys
who worked for the mob boss. So then, by the way,

(01:00:12):
during that robbery, both Tom Sellig and Emsey Ganey are
wearing ski masks. But then Kate drives up in the
getaway car with zero disguise, a character that they have
the Currup Cops have had several run ins with. At
this point is just like nope, full on, this is
just me and my huge head of curly blonde hair.

Speaker 6 (01:00:30):
Look, I would just like to point out the logic
of the film here is that everybody who's a criminal
in this movie got caught, so they aren't necessarily the
best criminals.

Speaker 4 (01:00:43):
This is true, you know what, You're not wrong about that.
But then mc ganny calls the Corrup cops offering to
sell them the coke back, and he's pretending to be
scared because he's just found out the cocaine belonged to
the mob boss and then Kate calls Fitzgerald to make
sure he's there alone at the by to witness it.
But wouldn't you know it, Cargill, everything goes rye. This
perfect plan goes awrye because the coked up violent cop

(01:01:04):
gets violent because he's coked up, and Gany immediately once
he's under the gun, starts calling out for Jimmy in
the dark. Now again, they have only summoned one I
a guy to witness this, right to get the evidence.

Speaker 5 (01:01:18):
And then's like, Jimmy, Jimmy, come out. We're but we're blown. Jimmy, Jimmy,
come out here.

Speaker 4 (01:01:22):
And honestly, the deal goes so bust that the best
thing that happens for Tom Selleck and for truth and
justice is mc ganney getting blasted in the back during
this buy because at least then they've got something on
these cops on tape.

Speaker 6 (01:01:37):
Yes, this is.

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
The worst fucking plan. Like, what was the best case
scenario here? I don't understand.

Speaker 6 (01:01:44):
I love how messy the plan is. Like that's very
again that everything about this movie nothing, everything always goes wrong.
That is the key. From minute one. The cops fuck
things up. You know, the you know, uh, every you know,
the one plan that goes mostly to plans still doesn't
work out great, and that's Tom Selleck assassinating someone in prison. Yes,

(01:02:07):
you know, all of these plans are messy because I
think what Peter Yates is doing here. You know, a
guy who's made a lot of crime films is that
knowing that criminals are not particularly smart. Their plans are
not genius, and they are not Sherlock fucking homes, you know.
And the plan is messy and it gets violent, but
it leads to a pretty good fucking conclusion.

Speaker 5 (01:02:30):
It does.

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
And this is the but this is the one point
in the movie where it feels like Peter Yates doing
the hot rock again. This feels like the hot coke,
Like that's exactly what's happening here. This plan makes no sense.
It keeps fucking up, But you're right, it doesn't matter
because once the shit hit the fan, shit hits the fan.
The car stunts at the end of this movie are
surprisingly phenomenal.

Speaker 5 (01:02:49):
Yeah, like, there's what first.

Speaker 6 (01:02:51):
What the guy who directed Bullet knows how to do
a car stunt?

Speaker 5 (01:02:54):
I get no, I am not. That's not what surprises me.

Speaker 4 (01:02:56):
It's the fact that five minutes before the end he
remembers that he directed Bullet and put these car stunts.

Speaker 6 (01:03:02):
In there, Like, we only have so much money, so
let's save the car stunts to the end.

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
We have to spend so much money on mustache wax
for Tom Selleck that you know, we had to kind
of limit the stunt budget.

Speaker 6 (01:03:13):
But fitzjared, but they they could afford all that, but
they couldn't afford the actual song An Innocent Man that
the title is based on by Billy Joel.

Speaker 4 (01:03:21):
Look, Carl, Billy Joel's well and good. But if you
can get When the Night Comes by Joe Cocker, if
you can get When the Night Comes by.

Speaker 5 (01:03:29):
Joe Cocker, I mean, why wouldn't you take that? Joe
Bono Beeta Wall you wront to It's like he can't
if he's running, he's on the lamb. That's not Actually
that song doesn't make a lot of say o, d.

Speaker 6 (01:03:41):
Bono, Where's where's my Billy Joel? That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (01:03:44):
That's you know what, Vienna waits for you, And so
does Billy Joel. Look, Fitzgerald leaps over this car that's
coming at him, and that stuntman gets more air than
Jordan in nineteen ninety one. It is insane how high
this dude jumps over the top of that car. And
you're sitting there thinking, well, that's gotta be the best
car stunt in the movie, right. Nope, because then Selik

(01:04:05):
jumps on the back of Scalize's cars. It's speeding away
and it starts off kind of like a daytime TV stunt,
not unlike something you'd see in The Fall Guy or
Magnum p I. But when this car hits another car
and that stunt man gets sent flying into the roughest,
most awkward landing this side of the road Warrior. I
did not expect in An Innocent Man starring Tom Selleck

(01:04:29):
to go and something has gone terribly wrong, and that's
dead and assume that he was dead. I thought that
stunt man was dead for sure. He lands on his neck.

Speaker 5 (01:04:39):
For fuck's sake.

Speaker 4 (01:04:40):
How was no one killed in the making of An
Innocent Man is beyond me. Watch this entire movie just
for that moment, because by god, it is incredible.

Speaker 6 (01:04:49):
Yeah, yeah, it's real good.

Speaker 4 (01:04:51):
And then we finally get the resolution, and the resolution
is that the living of the two corrupt cops. Parnell
is now also filing into the jail as a criminal,
and then we pan up to the rafters and there's
Emmery Abraham saying eight Life a motherfucker.

Speaker 6 (01:05:09):
And Life a motherfucker.

Speaker 5 (01:05:10):
Hit the Joe Cocker song and let's go home, everybody.

Speaker 6 (01:05:16):
I just want to be the talk to boom.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (01:05:20):
It's it's such an insane and awesome movie that again,
I feel like I was not adequately prepared.

Speaker 6 (01:05:28):
For I'm glad you didn't prepare you for it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:30):
No, I may have ruined this movie by preparing everybody
for it, because that's not how I saw it.

Speaker 6 (01:05:35):
Yeah, I just it's a movie that I saw a
sight unseen, you know when it came out, you know,
I was this is the era where I was going
to the movie theater, you know, every few nights, and
you know, living on an Air Force base and whatever
they were playing I was watching. And a Tom Selleck movie.
Fuck yeah, I'm going to a Tom Selleck movie and
uh and fuck yeah this.

Speaker 4 (01:05:53):
Movie and it may have opened the door for more
Yates crime films, more Yates films we haven't covered yet,
but we're gonna like this.

Speaker 5 (01:06:01):
This is just a. It's a great gateway movie.

Speaker 4 (01:06:03):
It's a great deep dive, you know, digging into the
prison wall and uncovering something like this.

Speaker 5 (01:06:07):
That's what we live for, especially this year.

Speaker 6 (01:06:09):
Also, what I will say, this movie doesn't waste any time.
This movie it is. This movie is pretty much a
rocket on rails. This is one of those movies that
like lived in my head so long, of so much stuff,
and I did not realize, oh no, no. It is
an abbreviated movie at times. It is one hundred and

(01:06:30):
fifty three minutes and it feels like eighty five. It's
just blasting on through. You know, once you get past
the first eighteen minutes, which is actually three minutes, everything
of that American Airlines training video is just a little
like a little much. And then once the movie starts,

(01:06:53):
it's like you're in and you're going and you're blasting
and it all works. The performances are great, the direction
is fantastic, stack you know, it's got great set pieces,
and it just it keeps delivering on being a film
unlike anything exactly like you've seen before, but a lot
like some of your favorites. It is true paint life

(01:07:14):
of a motherfucker.

Speaker 4 (01:07:15):
And that brings us to the junk food pairing. And
this junk food pairing sounds like a menu, but is
in fact a genre of food. According to this movie,
I'm talking about the genre of food greasy steaks, white bread,
and French fries.

Speaker 5 (01:07:26):
Is it the perfect meal or is it pure dead?

Speaker 4 (01:07:28):
That depends on who you ask in the film, but
it proves to be Chekhov's perfect meal as moments after
this is discussed tom Selick saying that the perfect meal
is greasy steak's, white bread and French fries.

Speaker 5 (01:07:38):
Again, genre, not exact menu.

Speaker 4 (01:07:40):
She makes for him a menu of greasy steaks, mashed
potatoes and gravy, fried.

Speaker 5 (01:07:44):
Zucchini and a chocolate cake.

Speaker 4 (01:07:46):
It is everything she despises, but representative of all the
major food groups. And that is exactly the meal I
would like to eat while revisiting an Innocent Man once again.

Speaker 6 (01:07:55):
And I think you should watch this movie with a
bottle of nineteen Crimes?

Speaker 5 (01:08:00):
What the fuck is nineteen crimes?

Speaker 6 (01:08:02):
Nineteen Crimes is a very popular red wine you can
find pretty much in any grocery store.

Speaker 5 (01:08:08):
Is it a prison toilet wine? Is that what you're
it is?

Speaker 6 (01:08:13):
It's not a prison toilet wine, but it's Jason.

Speaker 5 (01:08:18):
Yeah, there was way too much air before the butt
on that.

Speaker 6 (01:08:21):
You were just like, it's not the greatest wine, but
it is a good wine, especially if you're drinking cheap wine.
And this is a cheap wine movie. This is a
movie where you and your significant other sit on the
couch with a bottle of cheap wine nineteen crimes. It's
got you know, mugshots right on the right on the
label and take a drink. Whatever anyone else does.

Speaker 4 (01:08:46):
I love it, and I love the inci man. I'm
so excited the cargo push for this. This was a really,
really great time. I encourage everyone to go watch it,
and I encourage everyone to also follow Chunk Food Cinema
on your favorite social media. And if you want more
of this horseshit, you can find us on your faceavorite podcatcher.
Eleven years worth of this. You will not have time
to waste. It might feel like a prison sentence, but just.

Speaker 5 (01:09:07):
Go with it. Cargio, Where can people find you on
the interwebs?

Speaker 6 (01:09:11):
You can find me on blue Sky at see Robert
Cargill dot Bluesky dot social I got a lot to pimp,
right now. I got a new book out. It's called
All the Ash We Leave Behind. You can find that
from Subtranean Press. We've got an audio version coming out
very shortly. I've got stories out in two anthologies right now.
We've got Haunted Reels two with where you can read

(01:09:33):
stories by me, Maggie Levin, Mike Flanagan, David Bruckner, a
host of just brilliant Indian mainstream horror filmmakers and critics
all contributed to this great thing that just dropped this week.
We've got The End of the World as we know it,
a whole bunch of horror writers writing their own stories
set in the stand universe. Stephen King approved, he loves

(01:09:56):
the book. It just got a start review from Publishers Weekly,
which anthologies don't do. So we're all very excited about
this book. And keep your eyes open because coming here
in just two months we have the release of Black
Phone two, my next movie. Very excited for that. And
hope you are.

Speaker 4 (01:10:13):
Too amazing, And if you would like to financially support
Junk Food Cinema because you really like the.

Speaker 6 (01:10:20):
Show, I mean, you really like the show.

Speaker 4 (01:10:22):
You like it half as much as you like Lessener
you can go to patreon dot com, slash Junk Foods
and a financially support the show.

Speaker 5 (01:10:27):
We greatly appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (01:10:29):
We're gonna wrap things up by reminding you that if
you give us a hard time, I guarantee you one
long stay in hell, and hell in this case is
to find as apple peas with Brian on Dollar Red.

Speaker 6 (01:10:40):
Tonight, go watch the opening for Sledgehammer. Google Google that.

Speaker 4 (01:11:09):
Already pulling it up on YouTube. What that's on a
toilet scene? Oh, that's the barrel of a gun. Okay,
that that makes a lot more to it.

Speaker 6 (01:11:23):
And by the way, this soundtrack Fox.

Speaker 4 (01:11:27):
Fuck Yeah, it's just a gun.

Speaker 5 (01:11:34):
Now it's pointed at you and you're in danger too.
It's sledge Hammer. It's on a pillow. The gun is
on a pillow.

Speaker 4 (01:11:45):
Oh man, this is either the opening of a cop
show or a really sexy jewelry commercial.

Speaker 5 (01:11:53):
Whoa, oh a James Bond pose, I know what I'm doing.
Ok yeah,