Gladiator (1992) with Greg MacLennan

Brian & Cargill are joined by editor/friend-of-the-show Greg MacLennan to go mano y mano...y mano with one of the greatest sports film gems of all time: Gladiator!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
That's a mean junk and watching Rabbi.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
You gotta come out and stop me. All right, this

(00:23):
is Dick Miller.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
If you're listening to junk Food Cinema, who are these guys?

(00:45):
Lace up the gloves junk Johns and prepare to get
rowdy with junk food Cinema, brought to you by Rico
dot Suave dot com, ad cam dot com. Don't call
it a comeback, as we were literally here last week,
so it's not a comeback. This is, of course, the
weekly Culton Exploitation filmcast. So good it just has to

(01:06):
be fattening. I'm your host, Brian Salisbury, and joining me,
as per usual, is my friend and co host. He
is a novelist. He is a screenwriter, a lieutenant of Megapors,
A man who always seems at least a little bit
punch drunk. Mister c Robert Cargill. Hi, how's it going, man, dude?

Speaker 2 (01:22):
This episode has got to be at least ten years
in the making. I am very excited. I'm excited about
the movie. I'm excited about our guest. I'm excited to
be here.

Speaker 4 (01:31):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
He is a man of taste at times. At times,
although we don't get accused of that very often. I
feel like we are definitely exhibiting good taste on this
week's episode, and I'm excited about it. But as you
just heard, joining us for this auspicious event, the special
guest referee for this episode, if you will, film editor
from Electrical Creative and my frequent sparring partner on this show,

(01:53):
mister Greg McClinton.

Speaker 4 (01:55):
Hi, it's wonderful to be here. Thank you guys so
much for having me on. This is absolutely one of
my top ten most watched movies in my life and
absolutely one of my favorites.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Oh hell yes.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
I just want to point out that Rowdy Harrington directed
eight feature films, and this will be the third one
we've covered on this show, so percentage wise, he is
in the upper echelon of directors whose entire ouvra we
are attempting to cover.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
We discussed this before the show and I said, we
have to call a tier for that. We kind of
call those the Peter Hyams.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yes, he has Higham's up on the list.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
What is the third one? Is that when you did
without me?

Speaker 3 (02:27):
That is one I did with this gentleman sitting right
over here. In both of our corners, Greg McClinton and
Wed the day we did Striking Distance as part of
our What's you talking about Willis Month?

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Of course he did, ah.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
Striking Distance the most Pittsburgh.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Movie of all time, I mean yeah, and I was that.
I was literally gonna mention that it's an also ran.
In terms of the movies, he made like, if you're
going to talk about three movies, you talk about Striking Distance.
If you're going to talk about two, you don't speak
about striking Distance.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
Hey man, it's not like we covered the stick up. Okay,
Like we picked a good, solid, theatrically released Rowdy Harrington
movie with a stellar fucking cast. Striking Distance rules.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Okay, Look, if we're ready to get into it, so
do all the do all the housekeeping so we can
just fucking get into it now.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
If you like whatever the fuck this is, we have
ten to eleven fuck eleven hears of this podcast on
your favorite podcast. You can follow us on social media.
We're pretty much at junk food cinema everywhere you look.
And if you really like the show.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
I mean you really like the show, you like it
as much.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
As I think Cargole is criminally underestimating striking distance. You
can go to patreon dot com slash Junk Food Cinema
to financially support the show so we can keep doing this. Gentlemen,
this week's film has been on the shortlist for a
very long time, and the only roadblock to us covering
nineteen ninety two is Gladiator.

Speaker 5 (03:49):
Only go some when you know.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
People are saying Champ, we love you, Champ wilm with
you get them.

Speaker 4 (03:56):
It's illegal. Comedy goes on on that thing.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
It's a human cockfi.

Speaker 4 (04:00):
No, you baptized now.

Speaker 5 (04:03):
I'm talking to a million bucks in your back up
to be honest about it.

Speaker 4 (04:06):
You want the money right?

Speaker 2 (04:07):
What do you want? Tommy? Where is this together? This
is mark ticket.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
I'm gonna fight you.

Speaker 4 (04:14):
You run out on this issue, but a cheap bar runner.
You fight when I say you fight against who I say.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
He wants you to carry each other.

Speaker 4 (04:22):
It's time to make a choice.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
It's either you or him.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
Hey, we gotta fighter.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
He don't pay if you don't say no to me.
Boy Juba Gooding Junior star of Boys in the Hood,
Carra Bodo John Sada introducing James Marshall. I see Tommy here,
The boy I've been looking for Gladiator. Nobody owns Tommy Riley.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
Nobody is the fact that up until very very recently,
I had not seen nineteen ninety two's Gladiator.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
That is correct.

Speaker 4 (05:05):
No, the greatest thing that ever happened was you watched
this movie wipe tears from your eyes after witnessing one
of cinema's greatest freeze frames. Uh, and then texted me going, Hey,
I don't know why, but I just felt the need
to text you. I just watched the movie Gladiator for
the first time, and I didn't know if i'd told
you somewhere along the way that I loved it. But like,
it was so kismet that you sent that message.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
There are some moments that are just Greg mcclennan text.
I cannot explain to you, gentle listener, what prompts them,
what the criteria for that is. But you just know
it when you see It's kind of like pornography. You
can't define it, but you know it when you see it.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
So this is this is this is you know, classic
classic junk food in that here is a movie you
have only seen for the first time, and it is
a movie that I saw at a word of mouth
screening before it released.

Speaker 4 (05:54):
Oh good god, you lived in the Golden Ages.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
I saw this. I saw this movie not only with
a full ass audience, but with a full ass audience
that literally my first experience in my life jumped to
its feet at a moment in the film, fists in
the air, audience applauding and yelling.

Speaker 4 (06:13):
That's insane, because it was like like it tested poorly
whenever I've read about like the history of it, which
is crazy because like I feel like if I was
in a theater, it would be like that.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Oh no the theater. I saw it. I saw it
on an Air Force base. They tested it on an
Airporce base for some reason, not something I've heard of
them doing since, but they did a word of mouse
screening on base, and I went and saw it and
uh yeah, no. People were on their fucking feet in
the last scene in this movie, Like it was unreal.
And I have always loved this movie and never understood,

(06:44):
never understood why it not only did so poorly but bombed,
And in fact, until reading up on it, I didn't
realize how bad it bombed. Yeah, this movie bombed so
bad that it literally got the the head of the
studio fired this movie.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Bomb's so bad it got the head of marketing at
a completely different studio fire.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yes, like this this movie. This movie lost twenty million
dollars and I don't think it costs more than five.

Speaker 4 (07:13):
It kids, it's kind of insane, but it's twenty It's
box office was nine to two.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
And yeah it's And then with marketing, it just it
flopped hard and the thing, and to the point that
when they went to make Ridley Scott's Gladiator, I'm like,
there's already a movie called Gladiator. You can't just call
another movie Gladiator. And they were like, yeah, nobody's heard
of that, but you ask.

Speaker 4 (07:38):
I also remember me circle like two thousand and one
going around everybody going like, I like the real Gladiator.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
In nineteen ninety two. Yeah, yeah, no, So he had
a sword.

Speaker 4 (07:50):
These guys fight with their bare fists. Con Zimmer to
the score, I'm sorry, have you ever heard of Bradfordell?

Speaker 2 (07:59):
And by the way, he was the pitch hitter for
a guny Jerry Goldsmith.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
Yeah, I know, I would pay money to listen to
that score.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
The score has high fidelity, for sure. Look, gentlemen, I
am not here to make puns is something I've never
said in my life, but I am here to tell
you that this satisfies the very specific junk food cinema
catnip of being both the sports movie and an almost
completely forgotten sports movie.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
And not only that, it is a movie that if
you have never seen it, you are in for a
treat by it for a true fucking hidden gem. There's
not a bit of this that we have to explain
away and be like, it's good, but no, no, no,
it's fucking great.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
Yeah. It's distilled genre picture executed perfectly with like enough
of the character like zoom reactions to make my mouth water.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
Counter to my approach to being a husband, I apologize
for nothing when it comes to this film. It is
absolutely fucking remarkable. I do not understand why bomb. Just
like the two of you, I am at a loss
for why this movie didn't do well, and I'm super
happy to get to talk about it because this is
on top of my list right now. I do believe

(09:14):
for favorite film discovery of this year. This is everything
I want a movie like this to be. This movie
is so much in the wheelhouse of great sports movies
that it came a hair away from being directed by
John Avildson for Fox sake.

Speaker 4 (09:29):
Yep, this movie bomb so hard. It's soundtrack didn't succeed.
And this soundtrack.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
Bobs and by the way, not just bobs. This soundtrack
has half a dozen you know, top fucking Billboard hits
on it.

Speaker 4 (09:43):
Yeah, it's so good.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
I mean, this movie's got fucking ll coolj not. We
couldn't call it a comeback because he's been here for years.
It's got the very last appearance on a soundtrack or
on the Billboard charts ever anywhere third base, Third Base's
last appearance is on is on here. You know you've
got mc hammer because this was that era, like this

(10:08):
is this is middle of high school for me. This soundtrack,
I is the soundtrack of me growing up and getting
rejected by women like this is this is that soundtrack
and uh man, does it fucking hit hard? But yeah,
even that flopped.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
It was put out by chum King Records. It's a
full album like this, thirty eight minutes and forty four seconds.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
Amazing. So let's play the Carson game here, Cargo. This
soundtrack is so nineteen ninety two.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
How nineteen ninety two is it?

Speaker 3 (10:43):
It is so nineteen ninety two. It opens with a
song by Seal.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
And by the way, Seal before Seal was huge, Like,
that's the thing. This was Seal when he was still
culty and cool, before he became mainstream pretty batman.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
Yeah, speaking of cultsy, I'm not done yet. This soundtrack
is so nineteen ninety two.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
How nineteen ninety two is it?

Speaker 3 (11:09):
It's so nineteen ninety two. There is a song by
Lisa Lisa and the Cult Jam that was co written
by Sheryl Crowe. Yeah, that was This soundtrack is so
nineteen ninety two.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
How nineteen ninety two is it?

Speaker 3 (11:22):
It includes both Rico Suave by Girardo and the only
other Girardo song I've ever heard of.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
Oh man, there was another one, but that will Let's
move on because, by the way, Girardo was not from Mexico.
He was from Ohio.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
What how dare you?

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (11:42):
Oh, yes, next, you're gonna tell me Snow wasn't from Jamaica?
How dare you?

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Sir?

Speaker 4 (11:48):
You know?

Speaker 2 (11:48):
But Snow didn't pretend to be from Jamaica. He claimed
he sounded like he was from Jamaica even though he
was from Canada.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
I mean, I feel like.

Speaker 4 (12:01):
But he is gonna know you do it.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Look, if you're gonna there's the I will not. I
will not give Snow ship and put him in the
same category as Girardo, because at least Snow when he
found out he had a hit song, he was doing
time in prison.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
So I feel awful most because I was not prepared
to have a Girardo come.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
I was not prepared for us to defend the street
cred of Snow for fox sake.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Oh, we're defending We're defending fucking Gladiator today. It is.
It is ninety two as shit in here we are
in twelve inches of snow. Bitches.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
All right, all right, fine, well done. For those of
you who haven't seen this movie, and I would hazard
that's a lot of you listening to this. This is
a boxing film. It's about a character by the name
of Tommy Riley, who is played by James Marshall and
Greg This is another reason I wanted you here for
this because, as you well know, Greg Marshall, you and

(12:56):
I are very much team Cyberstorm all the way.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
Oh absolutely Cyberstorm. You've seen Vibrations Cargo of course. Okay.
I didn't want to make that a foregone conclusion because
it's a weird VHS rip that you gotta find anywhere.
But yeah, Vibrations is a special special movie.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Oh I saw it back. I saw it back in
the day in the nineties when we were passing films
like that around.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
You can also become a patron of junk food cinema
and listen to the commentary that Greg and I did
for the movie Vibrations from nineteen ninety six, in which
James Marshall is a musician who loses his hands and
finds a rather creative way to become a superstar of
the burgeoning EDM movement.

Speaker 4 (13:36):
Oh yes, yeah, Cargo, I forgot you were a video
store boy. I also found this back in my video
store days, where you're like, what's that cult section all about?
And then you pull the VHS's Well everybody was all
on the DVDs.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Oh yes, yes, indeed, I will point out James Marshall
is starring in this. This is introducing James Marshall, despite
the fact he was previously on the hit show twin Peaks.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah. Apparently there's no regulation for the word introducing you,
just like it.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
Also had introducing Aussie Davis and introducing the latest sensation
of nineteen ninety two, Robert Loggia.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
Introducing Brian Dennehy.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
I mean, look, Logan Lucky had the best introducing of
all time. That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (14:18):
I love Looking Lucky so much.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
No argument here at all. By the way, Cargil was
so much a video store boy that he had a
section that he labeled Lisa Lisa and the cult section.
That's how nineteen ninety two video store Cargill was her.

Speaker 4 (14:32):
Nineteen ninety two video store was Cargil?

Speaker 2 (14:34):
How nineteen ninety two was he?

Speaker 4 (14:37):
This is a feedback loop.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
It is We've gotten into a feedback loop. I recommend
seeing this film because it's It's James Marshall plays a
character named Tommy who moves to a tough high school
in Chicago. I love and I feel like this has
come up a lot this year. Cargil scary high school movies.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Well, I mean, this is where we are, that's this
is part of why we're here. Yeah, like quite literally
a weeks ago, I dropped the name of a movie
in uh dropped it in a chat, talked about it? Man,
Did I track it down? Did I watch it? Boy?
Are we not talking about it, which it's essentially this movie.

(15:14):
It's called Streets of Gold, and in place of James
Marshall and our other star who we'll mention here in
a moment, it is instead Adrian Pasdars.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
Gold And yeah, I would me and my wife She goes,
can we hit the Snipes because she wanted to go
through and see every Wesley Snipes movie that she hadn't
seen up until a certain point.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (15:39):
And we watched Streets of Gold and I was like, fuck,
this movie goes hard.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, it's not that great.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
Are you really not gonna call that pursuit a Snipes hunt?

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Am? I am?

Speaker 3 (15:47):
I gonna have to do everything on this fucking show.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
You know. I mean, look, we made the deal a
long long time ago. You get to keep the Patreon
and I don't have to do any of the work, you.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
Know what fair trade.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
Streets of Gold's very very hard to find, and in fact,
the version that I found is a VHS rip.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:11):
I think that's maybe how I saw it on like
a YouTube or something, because I was just like, while
we were going through a free associations.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
It's not terrible. The problem is is it clearly has
no money and the direction is some of the worst
direction I've seen in a while.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
The way, yeah, it's a pretty standards put the camera
there and have them do the acting.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yes, and not move the camera for like three minutes
because we don't have time for change ups, you know.
So it's interesting, but functionally it's the same movie. One
white guy, one black guy comes to the same last
twenty minutes. Just there's different motivations there. But this, compared

(16:52):
to the Streets of Gold is maybe it's a curiosity.
You like Snipes, go check out Snipes. It's fun watching
him in Pastar. But Gladiator Gladiator, fuck.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
It does and I appreciate it. Sweaty, it's very sweaty.
I appreciate that in this movie we've got a white
character attending, you know, a largely black, racist school of
largely racist for sure school.

Speaker 4 (17:16):
But as a child growing up, I would watch these
and I didn't grow up in a large city, so
I was like, is that what actual schools are like
in inner cities? And I just thought that that's what
all of them were like.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
I this is the one the one sticking point I
have with this movie is in the first ten minutes
of the movie, they kind of get all the racism
out of the way and go, look this movie. This
movie has opinions when the teacher walks in and greets
her pregnant and future criminal students, And I'm not exaggerating,
it's you kind of have to like grit your teeth

(17:47):
and go ooh ah, I don't know, I do it.

Speaker 4 (17:52):
That's part of that nineteen ninety two flavor. That's that's
what Patina looks like.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
I will say it is undercut, ever so slightly by
the fact that our our white protagonist is every bit
as much in the shit as his classmates. Like you
really could redub this movie the Great White Hopeless because
he is living in such horrible squalor because he has
a deadbeat gambling dad who's on the run from the mob,
played by the immortal John Hurd. Hell yeah, one of

(18:19):
the greatest deadbeat dads to ever be dead beat dads.

Speaker 4 (18:22):
He fucking watches the one scene that he shows up
in yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
Exactly, which is he just wont to do?

Speaker 2 (18:29):
By the way, listeners, the thing about this movie is,
if you are not paying attention to the opening credits,
this is one of those what the fuck movies where
every time a new character's introduced, You're like, what the
fuck is this person doing in this movie I've never
heard of.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
I will confirm this because the first time I watched it,
I was not paying attention to the credits. I was
getting my kid's dinner, and so when Brian Denny fucking
rolled into the movie, I was like, wait, what's going on?

Speaker 4 (18:53):
No, It's it's crazy because you get like all the
reveals of like Logia fucking killing it as Pappy Jack,
and then like you get Aussi Davis, and then whenever
it elevates to the den reveal, You're like, oh my god,
you guys have literally just had sex with every character actor.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
It's like, wait, what is even going on here? Like
the character There's so many great character actors in this movie.
Uh people debut. I know, Uh Carabuono, who who plays
is on Stranger.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
Things, I did not realize is pretty much in all
of my favorite shows ever in fact, and okay, so
I didn't recognize her in this movie as the actress
who plays doctor fay Miller on Madmen. But then once
I realized that, I didn't realize that fay Miller was
also Kelly Maltasanti from The Sopranos, And then I didn't

(19:43):
realize that Kelly Maltasanti is also Mike's mom from Stranger
Things aka the Hottest Milt in Hawkins.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
And and here she is a teenage waitress.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah, it's just like, it blew my mind in so
many My mind would not stop exploding the entire time
she was on screen.

Speaker 4 (19:59):
I just feel so sorry for your wife. Was she home, Well,
you were just running around and exploding.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Well you got Monte Sweet showing up in here like
it's it's just it's bananas. And this is all before
we haven't even mentioned the other top line person who
this is only like for me. See, here's the thing.
He had two movies come out very close together, and
so depending on what type of movies you watched, you
got a very different introduction to Cuba Gooding Junior. If

(20:27):
Boys in the Hood was the first one you saw,
which wasn't when I saw in theater. I saw it
on video later, you got that Cuba Gooding Junior. Or
if you were one of the twelve people like me
who saw this movie in a theater, you got this
Cuba Gooding Junior as your introduction to Cuba Gooding Junior
and holy shit, is he he fucking amazing at this?

Speaker 3 (20:49):
You sounded like you're on an infomercial in the nineties.
Like if you're like me and this was your introduction
to Cuba Gooding Junior, call this number now. It T
Tech is here to help you get a Cuba Gooding
Junior degree.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
No like I hot singles who love Cuba Gooding Junior
waiting on the party line in your area.

Speaker 4 (21:05):
We want to make sure you have a one hundred
percent Cuba experience, and we want to make sure those
Cube experiences are good.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
And I'm the psychic hotline one whose voice I'm not
going to do because I'm not a rapper from Toronto.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
You could be if you're from Toronto and started rapping.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
After these messages, We'll be right back. Three visions. That
was Bucks in Russia. I was champion. I got something happening,
you man, I got something.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Going you know it just like I do.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
I'm the best fighting in here. Two fighters, one dream.
This is my shine worth fighting for. You got to
be good, You'll fight. You will fight. Klaus Maria Brandaara,
there's one for both of us.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Streaks of Gold rated r it starts fighting at a
theater near you.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
I wasn't trying to bury the lead on this. What
I find fascinating is that this movie is apsolutely a
two hander about the friendship between Tommy and Cuba Gooding
Junior's character Abraham Lincoln reigns. But here's the thing. That
friendship doesn't codify until I timed it this time, until
halfway through the movie. And that is really really interesting

(22:18):
that it's able to pull that off. It's got so
much going on that it's able to balance out Tommy's
story and then Cuba's story separately before they become friends,
which I think enriches because both of those characters are awesome,
so when they join up together, it feels like the
Avengers of awesome characters in this movie, but not something
you would expect from a screenplay. Is impressive.

Speaker 4 (22:37):
Yeah, well, I think it's the thing like I think
it like taking it apart, you need to have like
the totally different loaner go into the entirely like hostile
environment to where you don't see a friendship there, to
where that whenever it reaches out it feels more genuine,
and then obviously it creates the stakes for the end
of the movie.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
But and by the way, this is also literally the
structure of Streets of Gold, which is equally as weird,
where you know, they're kind of not really rivals, but
they're kind of like pseudo opposed to one another. You know,
there's you know, tension until there isn't and then they
become friends and then just overnight they're like hanging out together. Hey,
there's a scene of them boxing, and now they're hanging

(23:14):
out with each other's families, and that's you know, it
just is the weird structure at this time of this
type of white boxer black boxer movie.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
I feel like this is also similarly the structure of
a little film called Vibrations, where really James Marshall and
Christina Applegate don't become friends until halfway through the movie
when they both discover the power of DM. Guys, you
need to go fucking watch Vibrations right now.

Speaker 4 (23:37):
Yeah, Vibrations is a movie, and then you think the
movie's over, and then it starts an entirely different movie.
It's it's it's its own sequel.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
I think you said the thing that can mostly be
said about Vibrations. It is, in fact a movie that's
the truest thing that can be said.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
You're not wrong, but also you're wrong. And that's a
weird paradox about the movie. Vibrations little on YouTube and
it's entirety by the way.

Speaker 4 (24:01):
Anyways, you're officially not invited to my Vibration dance party screening.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
You failed the Vibes check. Okay, Look, this is a
Chicago high school that is so scary.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Oh scary is it?

Speaker 3 (24:19):
I'm not going to do the car something the whole episode,
I promise, but there are literal stormtroopers roaming about. The
gang that occupies the neighborhood around the high school is
called the Stormtroopers. This is a high school with fucking stormtroopers,
guys and Angels of Mercy angels. There is so much
shit going on.

Speaker 4 (24:38):
How are you guys doing today with the light? This
movie has so many insane lines.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
Okay, there's a there's a knife fight towards the beginning
where we're interesting.

Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yeah, about that knife fight. I wanted to ask you
this car Gil because I thought about this while I
was watching it. You're from a slightly older generation to
where you went to school. Did anybody ever threaten to
carve their initials into your ass.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Ummmm not maybe, Okay, I'm not going to say it
didn't happen. I will definitely say I've definitely had knives
pulled on me in that era.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
I've had an I pulled on me. But the guy
never said I was gonna He's like, I'm gonna carve
my initials in your ass.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Oh, I mean, come on, look, I mean I was
a teenager in the eighties and early nineties. It was
all catchphrases at that point. That was all it was like,
quite literally, that was the note that Arnold Schwarzeninger would
give every script it needs more one liners. I mean
that's you know. So yeah, everybody tried to sound like
a badass at that time, So that would not shock
me that somebody that that was a phrase that was around.

(25:42):
But I don't know if I ever heard it in
the wilder, if it was just a you know, a TV,
you know movie thing.

Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yeah, it was just one of those like Brandon Lee
like out of the blue lines that I felt weird,
where he's like, You've got the biggest dick I've ever
seen on a man.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
And there's so many questions from that.

Speaker 4 (26:07):
Watched a whole movie with you two guys, and I
have so many more questions about it.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
All of a sudden, it's true. It's very true. Just
to set the table here a little bit more before
we dig deeper into the plot. As as Greg mentioned,
this score is done by Brad Fidel And what I
love about that is if you listen in one of
the boxing matches, if you listen really closely, he is
tantalizingly close to it being the Terminator theme, like the

(26:34):
Da Da I was like, Brad, Brad, we know it's you,
we know that, but it's also shot by tak Fu Jamoto.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Well that was that. That That was where my jaw
dropped because you know, I remember.

Speaker 4 (26:48):
The pography in this movie is so good.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
It's so good. But it was like, you know, I
popped it on and you know, Jess was like, oh,
what are we watching? Oh Gladiator from nineteen ninety two.
It's a boxing movie. You're not gonna you know. Just
Ess can watch the gnarliest of horror films. She can
watch people get you know, disemboweled and giggle along and
have a good time. But two dudes hitting each other
in the face, she taps out. She's just like, can't

(27:13):
take it, can't do it.

Speaker 4 (27:15):
And so honestly, one of my favorite sub genres is
two dudes hitting each other in the face.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
I mean, that's just what you do on Friday nights.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
Why I'm not invited over to the cargills anymore, but the.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Uh, but you know, I went, holy shit, and just
like what is it? Lewis shot I Tackedjamono and she's like,
who's that. I'm like, oh, you know, just a couple
of movies you've heard of, like Science of the Lambs
and Star Wars, and you know, there's just some.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
Movies Philadelphia, the sixth Sense, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Pretty
in Pink, Like the guy has shot some incredible films.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Yeah, yeah, And this movie looks so good as a result.
It has its own style. This looks and feels like
a nineties early nineties movie in the way that there's
certain nineties things you can't get away from. But it
does not look like any other specific film that you

(28:06):
can name. It's not aping anyone else. It's its own thing.

Speaker 4 (28:10):
And it seems like a full evolution of rowdy from
like uh, Roadhouse, because I mean the Roadhouse is a
beautiful and wonderful movie. But like, as far as the
amount of camera he like moves around in this movie.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
I just want to bask in the fact that this
is the one and only podcast on the internet. Well,
you'll hear things like this is the evolution of rowdy.

Speaker 4 (28:32):
Well, I mean interestingly like the podcast that I wanted
to plug it.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
I mean, you know, talk about like, you know, we're
having a good time, we're joking around where you know,
some people might get the wrong impression of this movie
and believe that this is one of those movies that's
so bad it's good and not realize that, no, this
is one of those movies that's really fucking good and
did not get its day in court and that has
been ignored and tax cinematography. Here. One of the interesting

(29:02):
things he does is he pulls the camera back to
show how tight and dirty and claustrophobic the poverty of
the space is. Like he really drives this entire film
as the grime of poverty in this era. And like,
even when you go into this underground boxing ring, which

(29:23):
you know people are organizing and there's money behind it,
it feels grimy and damp, and you know, sweaty. You
can almost smell, you know, the boxing in the air
of this film. And like there's several scenes that are
just very simple scenes of like, you know, James Marshall
sitting at a table, like pondering all the shit that's

(29:44):
going on in his life. But the camera's just back
so far that it rather than having this big, wide
open space where we can really kind of take in
the character and the vibes of it, instead it just
feels so small and contained, like this guy's living in
a postage snamp and he can't get out, and and that's.

Speaker 4 (30:02):
Just the markers on it.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah, And the cinematography of the movie really drives that,
and it just looks so good. It's it's just one
of those things that I was just marveling at what
he was doing with the camera to really drive the
character of this film and get you know, get the
the whole theme of this film, which is everyone in
this movie, except for our villain Brian Dennehy, is fighting

(30:28):
their way out of the shitty hand they've been dealt,
and they're doing it with the one thing they have,
which is the talent of being able to take a
fucking punch and then throw one back. And in fact,
that's what's so interesting about both of these characters, you know, uh,
both Tommy Riley and Abraham Lincoln Haynes, is that there

(30:49):
there's they're rocky like characters. Their strength isn't in they
throw that punch that will knock people out. Their strength
is that they can take a beating and they keep
getting up and they refuse to stay down, and that's
who they are. And so that this entire film gets
driven into that notion that what you're watching is you're

(31:09):
watching two people who absolutely will get out of this
situation anyway they can, but right now they're stuck here
and they have to fight every minute of every day.
And that just oozes out of every frame of this film.

Speaker 3 (31:22):
And it extends to the way that Tax shoots the
actual boxing matches, like he really is pulling everything back,
and he's pulling it back as a visual metaphor for
gaining perspective, and the way he shoots the boxing matches,
it's not the entire match, but he does something in
establishing shots that I don't think I've ever seen in
a boxing movie before, where he pulls it back wide

(31:44):
and almost does center focus like fucking Kubrick, where the
two men in the ring are in the center of
the frame on a parallel to each other, and he
pulls back far enough to where you can see the
whole arena surrounding the ring, but he pulls back so
far that there's almost a curvature, like as a fish eyelands,
to the point that you like, he does, of course

(32:05):
pull in and do the close ups as they're fighting,
but when the match is starting, it's a center focus,
wide establishing shot, and I don't think I've ever seen
that in a boxing movie before.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
I mean, I just like how apart from the actual
dynamics of those scenes, like, I like that they didn't
go for like trying to do hyper real boxing and
like have like Rocky theatrical boxing because it's so much
more fun to watch.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
And that's where this movie really thrives. This movie is
so many different things all at once, not necessarily in content,
but in tone and in the kind of movie it's
trying to be. For it makes sense to me why
Avelton was the first choice to direct this movie, because
it has Rocky aspirations. It is shot like Rocky, it

(32:51):
is scored like Rocky. The characters are strong, The characters
are well developed. You care about them so much. They
have real dreams and real goals that you buy into
apathizes with, very much like Rocky. At the same time,
what this movie effectively is is Lion Heart Junior, and
I am here for it.

Speaker 4 (33:09):
Like I love Lionheart so much, and it's always weird
to isolate that one out of all the punch Fighter
tournament movies, but it's just the best one, and it's
the one is just because it swings the biggest earnest
heart into a story that's as simple as it can be,
but it's you know, directed to the hilt and put
in with so much extra that like I can't it's

(33:33):
just better than bloods Forward or anything.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
For me.

Speaker 4 (33:35):
I just love because he's doing it for his family.
And then like everything that you see is like all
weighed into that, whereas like all of these other ones
are just like wad into People want to win and
people want to fight, and so like I feel like,
what's so great about this? It's like, yeah, like I
buy into these types of movies one hundred and ten
percent of the time because I just love how earnest
they are, and it's just like I'm fighting for my family,

(33:57):
and like Tommy's like I'm fighting for my family. And
whenever you're rooting for two main characters that are obviously
on a collision course, it becomes like a very dramatic film.
For me, it's like a warrior.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
And then and then what this movie does that none
of those other films do. It gives us a third
act unlike anything we've seen in this genre before. Uh,
because you've not seen a fight where you go get
our two leads head to head for the big boxing
match that they've been priming this entire movie, and one

(34:29):
of them just won't take a swing. Yeah, you know,
one of them won't because of the way it's set up.
And and and then that's not the big dramatic fight.
The big dramatic fight is what what Brian Denny?

Speaker 3 (34:45):
Look what? This is the other thing that this movie
balances so well. This movie has a lot of heart
and a lot of dramatic impact. The moments of drama
played in this movie. There's not an ounce of cheese
on it, Like you must this movie must be lactose intolerant,
because not an ounce of cheese on those dramatic moments
like they all play completely sincere and true, and they work,

(35:05):
and they get you on the side of these characters,
and they take their time developing the characters, and they
have of course, because it is a sports movie, we
of course get a montage because we're gonna need a montage, right,
I'm not gonna hat a montage. Get a couple of montages, right,
And this montage has a great song by fucking Cheap
Trick playing underneath it, and it's incredible. And the entire time,

(35:28):
we're watching Tommy's fights and we're watching Lincoln's fights separately,
juxtaposed against each other. And of course at this point,
you know, you know, much like Elo, we're headed for
a showdown. But even on top of all of that,
I counted this. There are six fucking actual boxing matches
in this movie. This movie does not feel like what

(35:49):
is it like an hour and forty two minutes something
like that, It's not long at all. One Yeah, to
pack this much into one movie, six actual fights, a
montage of more fights, and all the character development and
all the dramatic beats, everything into a movie that's only
an hour and forty one minutes that flies by is
insane to me.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
And each one of those fights has its own narrative, arc,
its own its own stakes that is not just hey,
he's boxing this guy to get through to the next guy.
Every single one of these has a whole different thing
going on, right down to the point where he has
to decide whether he wants to mentally handicap a man.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
For life after he just watched his only friends get
put into a coma.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
Yes, absolutely, but this is okay, I'm good. I will
spend two seconds on this, I promise. The structure of
this movie, in terms of the fights, is exactly how
you program a great pay per view card in wrestling,
where every single fight is interesting, the opponents have a
reason to be battling each other, and the matches themselves
tell a story within the ring that furthers the overall story.

(36:55):
That's literally the goal of every wrestling pay per view,
and this movie is doing it with boxing.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
And then Hollywood Rock comes out in the end and
we have a fight that wasn't on the card.

Speaker 4 (37:06):
Yeah, Like, then you have a new carecter introduce themselves
and totally fucking blow you away with how awesome they are.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
And then you just hear that bell, and you know
the Undertaker is going to show up and fuck some
shit up. You just know, you just know that's what's
going to happen.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
I mean you did when you sat down to watch
this movie. You had no idea you were getting into
a Brian Denny he fist fight third.

Speaker 3 (37:25):
Act and okay, look I was gonna go fight by fight.
Fuck it, we're skipping to the last fight of this movie.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Let's go.

Speaker 4 (37:33):
Bargo. You make him think you're weak when you're strong.
That's how you get him the knockout.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
Brian Dennehy, who is the fight promoter, the Vince McMahon
of this metaphor that I've been building here. He's the
guy that is moving these people like ponds, absolutely capitalizing
on their poverty and making them do his bidding so
that he ends up being the one that benefits the most.
And at the end of this movie, when Tommy has
had enough of Brian Denney' shit, even though knowing that

(37:58):
Brian Dennehy was a boxer who only had one loss,
and then when he had a rematch with the guy
he lost to, he retired that man and the only
reason he stopped fighting was because of a foot injury.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
And because Aussie Davis has told us he has no weakness.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
He has no weakness, Brian Denny.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
Not even the injury that couldn't be fixed with surgery.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
No, it was willed away. It was willed away with
cigars and cheeseburgers and fuck you attitude. Brian Denny. He
gets into the ring announces to the audience that the
whole movie was secretly an origin story for the Blob
from the X Men. That's essentially who Brian Denney is
playing in this movie. We find out at the end.
First the upper cuts Cuba, gutting Junior out of the ring.

(38:38):
The ring. This is what I'm talking about with this movie,
understanding how to be both things. It's Rocky, it's the
Avilton energy, but when you bring a guy like Rowdy on,
you're gonna get some of this shit too. You're gonna
get the roadhouse energy where someone could be literally uppercut
over the top rope and then in my house exactly.
Tommy challenges him to a fight at that instant, and

(39:00):
then Brian Dinny he just starts attacking Tommy with his
own forehead. Guys, with his own forehead. Yeah, top of
the head hardest part of the body, kid.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
And then it's the shin but yeah, and then Tommy
injures one of his hands.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
He's like fighting him with one hand, what's the matter,
can't you finish me? And then Dinny at one point
in this fight dislocates a finger and then relocates it himself,
which is probably why just can't watch movies like this Cargo,
I totally understand, because he literally pops his own fingers
back into place that.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
She would have been fine with. No, no, no, did
the finger things? She'd be like, yeah, no, that's a
great effect, that's well done. Uh it's the why do
you keep hitting him in the face whatever?

Speaker 4 (39:43):
Like guys just meet and people keep going.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah yeah whatever. I was about to I was about
to mention that that scene is the scene that bucks
with her more than any other scene in movie history.
It's the what she cannot watch. I wanted to just
or something beautiful.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
I mean we haven't mentioned him yet, but John Seta
in this movie who was a boxer before becoming an actor. Please, uh, well, okay,
he plays Romano in this movie, an another person who's
befriending Tommy because he's also in this world of you know, Greg,
another great reason for you to be on the show.
This feels more like, in terms of the world of boxing,
we're dealing with more like tough enough than Rocky, do

(40:23):
you know what I mean? Like this is a this
is a glorified tough man competition going on.

Speaker 4 (40:28):
Yeah, you gotta win. It's boxing rules this and so
like just follow them. We're not going to enforce them,
but you guys are all boxers and professionals, so just
box it out.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
The second fight in this movie I dubbed Lincoln versus
the Punter because like, the fight itself isn't anything special.
But I don't remember that. I don't even remember the
big fuck opponent's name. But no, it's the second guy.
It's the second guy, the one that Dennehy topples during
their sparring match, and then he puts him in the
ring with Lincoln. And then this guy while Lincoln's down

(40:57):
like trying to get up. Apparently this this dude thinks
he's like fourth down and ten and he's trying to
pin Lincoln's brain back to the one yard line because
he just full on kicks him upside the head. Oh yeah, yeah,
And Lincoln, despite the kick and the undoubted CTE, rises
up and just wallops this big bastard. But again, at
that moment you swell on.

Speaker 4 (41:17):
The brain doesn't start until about an hour afterwards, when
you really gotta get worse.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
One of the things I want to highlight since we're
talking about this is again one of the neat things
about the screenplay of this and what they're doing, is
the Tommy and Abraham are defined by the fact that
even though they're in underground boxing and cheating is allowed,
or cheating has looked the other way on, they never cheat.

(41:43):
They always legitimately win all of their fucking fights.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
Yeah. The third fight where what I call the Romano controversy,
There's a boxer named Shortcut who rubs this chemical onto
his glove and then in a headlock, rubs it into
Romano's eyes, which blinds him for the fight and then
allows Shortcut to basically beat Romano into a coma. And
it's it's yeah, and it's it's fucking.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
By the way, coma is not the right word for it. Yeah,
he's in a coma. He's also brain dead. Yeah, he
didn't have.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
Medically induced coma because he was so many injuries.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
They they literally they don't have a doctor explain it
because it would not sell what happened. They literally had
some guy nearby going all they said, he brain.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
Did what happened to this guy? He was in a
car accident? How many times?

Speaker 3 (42:31):
Yeah, it's a great question. But I mean, that's a
very traumatic part of this movie. And and I have
to come in James Marshall because he really does sell
how traumatized he personally is seeing his friend go through this,
and that leads to I mean, even though we know
because Ozzie Davis tells us that anger is the enemy,
Tommy's running on pure rage by this point.

Speaker 4 (42:53):
Everybody needs to have an Aussie Davis in their life.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
So good in this movie, so good, and you know
we keep mentioning him. This is one of those things.
And rewatching it, I just, for the life of me
can't figure out why this is James Marshall's only leading
role again, first and last, Well, he's not they don't,
he's not listed as the lead actor in that movie.

(43:16):
He's in it, I think, I don't.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
I don't think it was released in theater, so I
don't know if that necessarily counts.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
But it's with what I was reading was this is
listed as officially his first and last leading role. He's
still acted, and he's in a bunch of stuff, but
he's still acting. Yeah, I don't think. I don't think
he was in any way bad or uncharismatic. If I
love him in this movie.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
No, he's a good actor. And I think the only
reason he didn't he didn't get credit for being the
star of Vibrations is because technically the star of Cyberstorm.
Fair enough, It's it's a real potato patato situation.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
They are on and if you play the score two
Gladiator at two point five speed, it sounds exactly like Cyberstorm.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
This is entirely true.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
After these messages, we'll be right back. You're ready. Put
the Lord.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Because something new that's gonna pass your praise through your
mind and put you into a heavy trend.

Speaker 4 (44:08):
You can take you from trance to atipy.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
Nothing can do this group. We're controlling the.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
Vibe, manipulating the manness, sucking in the energy. Stag Fie
let go you.

Speaker 5 (44:21):
You feel the music, summers, feel the passion, and experience
the power.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
It's a line of vibrations.

Speaker 5 (44:38):
Christina Applegate the sexy star of the hit comedy series
Married with Children, and James Marshall from a few good
men vibrations.

Speaker 4 (44:48):
It's hot, It's very hot.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
We're just going through these fights, man, and again we
have six fucking fights in addition to a month have
more fights. But yeah, that fourth fight when Tommy gets
revenge on shortcut for what he did to Romano and
beats him in like a minute and a half, doesn't
let him get close enough to use the chemical.

Speaker 4 (45:10):
He does do cheats in that one, but he only
does the cheefs because he's getting them back and that
guy's already doing the cheats.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
I will I will say if this movie has a
slight weakness, it's everything you're saying comes at the expense
of the romantic interest making any sense.

Speaker 4 (45:26):
Sure, because then she just shows up and she goes, hey,
I know that you were fighting for money, but do
you want to fuck now?

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Yeah? I mean she clearly has it for him from
minute one, like their chemistry is legit, It works, and
it makes sense in the fact that you just go
ad they're teenagers. Of course, she can't figure out what
she's supposed to do when as a filmmaker I'm like,
I think there's some reshoots that went in here to
clean up, clean up some motivations, because she's very much

(45:54):
like you said, you work in a box again. And
it's like he said he boxed once. He didn't say
he was never going to box again. Talking about he.

Speaker 4 (46:02):
Just means not going to do it immediately underground for money. Yeah,
I mean, I feel like it also feels like they
could have had some trimming around there, because like whenever
she shows up for that scene, like it's just straight
to bed, they don't really have a conversation.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (46:16):
Yeah, So you feel like there maybe they went inside,
had a chat and then like she understood and then
they had sex. But they were like, let's keep this
picture rolling.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
And that would explain where those little bits from the
montage later come from.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
Yeah, we got six fights and a montage to get through.
Come on, guys, we got to move this along. I
can even rock ahead a montage, even Rowdy uses montage.

Speaker 4 (46:37):
I was reading I forgot what movie, but another studio
had read that this movie was testing so poorly that
they moved up their release lawnmower.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Man, And that's that's what I said at the top
of the show. The New Line executive at the New
Line marketing guy that moved it up because of that
also got fired. This movie got people at New Line
fired and it's not even a New Line film.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
Kids don't want to boxing picture. Kids want the power
glove and the Clyber reality.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Oh man.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
I mean, the thing is, you're not wrong. In the
early nineties, you know what.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
They were, as it turns out, right, But they're like
James Marshall doesn't fuck you know who fucks Jeff fay fucked.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
I mean that's also true.

Speaker 4 (47:19):
I let him mow my lawn all day.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
I okay. I've heard a number of things today that
I feel like, if clipped, could sum up the entire
eleven years of the show. And Jeff Faye focks is
practically a T shirt.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
It's not a spoiler till you get there.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
It's not a spoiler till you get there.

Speaker 4 (47:40):
Margo doesn't want any of the proceeds, but if you
start selling on the website, I want at least a.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
Third of that. That's fine, that's fine. You will absolutely
get a third of the nothing that we make off
the Jeff fo T shirt.

Speaker 4 (47:52):
Can't wait to go spend that at residuals.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
We'll sell exactly one and then it will be addressed
to Jeff Faye, Hey, I bought this great t shirt.
Check it out.

Speaker 4 (48:04):
Honestly, I would be proud to wear a shirt that
just lets people around me know the Jeff a he focks.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
Yeah, it's important to let the public know. The fourth
fight again, I want to go back to what Greg said.
I'm not arguing with you that maybe Tommy gets a
little bit untoward in that match lets the anger win.
But despite being fueled by vengeance, he refuses to go
for the kill, which he totally could do, and Brian
Denney is screaming at him to do and when he doesn't, Denny,

(48:30):
he has that great line, what are you working on
a merit badge? Finish him? He's a fucking Mortal Kombat character.

Speaker 4 (48:36):
I mean, he is the audience at that point. That's
what everybody wants to see.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
Yes, yeah, this is very true. This is very true.
But then yes, it's the next day during training that
we discovered that Lincoln has brain damage thanks to the punter,
and the doctor says he shouldn't fight for sixty days.
But then Brian Denney offers to take him pro if
he wins the fight against Tommy. We were building toward
this fight. We knew this was going to be a
showdown and the STA could not be higher because you

(49:02):
know all Cuba Gooding Junior wants and this is another
great way the movie develops the character is he wants
to make a better life for his family. He has
got a baby girl. He wants to take his whole
family out of the you know, he has that great
line in the movie about you know, poverty is a
black disease, Like he's trying to find the cure for
the poverty and fighting in this match means that he's

(49:23):
finally out of this trap. He's going to do it
despite the fact that it might kill him. And Tommy
of course, is like, I don't want to fight him
at all because he's my friend. That they don't want
to kill him. So Denny, he has to threaten his
girlfriend to give so the two of them don't want
to fight each other. But both of them have an
established and completely believable motivation for participating in that fight.

Speaker 4 (49:45):
Yeah yeah, I mean, Cuba tells the shit of that
move that fight because he's like, comar me go, it's
just like heart wrenching because you know, like it's desperate
because you have so much humanity for him throughout the
entire movie.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
It's heartbur It really is, like even when Tommy starts
to fight harder, he still won't hit Lincoln in the
head again telling a story with the way that they're fighting,
it's so amazing.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
And then like a Cuba being like, you can't beat me,
You're not good enough to beat me only on the body, it's.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Oh dude, when Tommy looks at him like it, I mean,
Lincoln's really laying into Tommy, and Tommy finally just looks
up and says, come get your money, like come on,
come finish me off. And it's a heartbreaking line.

Speaker 4 (50:26):
Yeah, I mean it's I think it's fit the Testament
to like everything that this movie is. But like, I
also feel like we have talked about the editing but
not said it like directly, but like I feel like
there's so much in the editing because the storytelling was
all there, and that like you like somebody perfectly assembled
all of these perfect beats to hit in just the
right order to where it's just like a series of

(50:47):
like crescendos that are just constantly happening for me, because
it's like building up like the hands or the punches
or all of these different visual elements they do repeats
and progresses with like incredible reactions. It's just always a
release whenever anybody gets to say anything. And they always
had those fucking cool, fucking Dolly into Dolly outs on people.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
So good. Yeah, it's shot so well and the score
works so well and the performances are so good that
you know, this movie Gladiator, I just have to ask
audiences were they not entertained? Why did this movie not
do better?

Speaker 2 (51:19):
It just didn't connect? And uh, I mean I would
keep in mind, this is nineteen ninety two. I've talked
about this before. The thing you have to keep in
mind in this era was audiences had kind of had
their full of mainstream studio films and wanted something different
and fresh and not that felt the same. And there

(51:40):
head you know, there was a host of boxing throws.

Speaker 4 (51:43):
In this era and Roki like movies and karate Kid
like movies.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
Yeah, and so we'd seen this. You know, this year,
the year that it's released, is the same year that
all of a sudden, Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez breakout
at Sundays. You know, this is the year of the
Changing of the Guard to where all of a sudden,
people are showing that they're hungry for more, for more

(52:09):
diverse kind of storytelling, and they don't just want the
mainstream problem that they've been sold before, and so anything
that looks like it, they're just like, Eh, I've seen it.
I want to see something new. I want to see that. Oh,
you know what, I really want to see. I want
to see that new dancing movie because I hear that
is the Forbidden Dance.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
Jesus Christ, I need you to be more specific at
which Lombonto movie you want to see.

Speaker 4 (52:35):
I think it's actually kind of interesting because I think
maybe it might be a symptomatic thing of junk food
cinema and that you guys and me included fall in
love with these movies and wonder why the world failed,
and it's always like it's the last time they made
one of those on like the end of the hype
train for that type of movie before went into regression

(52:55):
for a bit, and it's just like, yeah, maybe we
just really really loved them so much and we were
just the sad boys that they left.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Yeah, I wholeheartedly believe that's true.

Speaker 4 (53:06):
Yeah, Brian, go ahead and collate all that information so
that me and Cargo can just be very happily rewarded
with our blitsful ignorance.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
Fair enough the ending of this movie, because when I
texted Greg and I said, I'm watching Gladiator, he said,
are you crying in a bathtub yet? Are you like
completely broken and crying in a bathtub yet? And I
gotta say, the ending of this movie very much like
the ending of you know, either of the first two Rockies,
fucking Rocky four, which is still my favorite. I don't

(53:36):
give a shit, Like, really does send you, really does
give you that victorious vibe. You feel like you could
take on the world because Tommy has been ropid doping
Brian dennehy the entire fucking match, and it's like, oh, yeah,
by the way, Checkov's boxing advice. Yeah, when you're strong,
act weak, and when you're weak, pretend you're strong. This
arm was never injured. It's almost like the Princess Bride,

(53:59):
like there's something you shouldn't I am not right handed,
and then he just fucking wallops the guy.

Speaker 4 (54:04):
But also a test of it to James Marshall in
that scene is like the Tommy character is so stone cold,
cut off from everybody because like he's alone in his house,
he's alone at the school. He's having to fight, but
like he's outside it like that, and he's like he's
being he's having to do it for a purpose. And
then like after he like beats Denny, he like you

(54:25):
see his entire face change.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
Yeah, yeah, he's finally gotten that win. And then Denny
he goes down like a fucking Sequoia. Anger is the enemy,
but I use it against him. Ozzie Davis is so
proud of him. And then Tommy wins. Tommy is free.
The thing we haven't really mentioned is that.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
I'm sorry, Yeah, the Master has given Tommy a suck.
Tommy is free.

Speaker 4 (54:47):
Tell me, you guys have some inside jokes that I
would have more questions about, and I just want to
point that out. In the same podcast in which somebody
talked about a quote about a larger dick on a man,
Just to be clear.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Doby does not believe in boy and every gender. Just
want to make sure Toby is not mumped in with
any other person who might be associated with this one
Tobey has been given a boxing glove.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Dopey is free. Thanks Tobby, I'm glad we gave you
a platform for that.

Speaker 4 (55:18):
I feel like somewhere Cargi'll just finished and I missed
that on a sexual thing, I like everybody.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Else listening to this podcast is like, what is Greg
not getting about what they're talking about? It's fucking Harry Potter.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
Why is he not buying into one of these morons
are talking about in the middle of the boxing movie. Look,
it's a thing, it happens, don't worry about it. But
the thing we haven't really hit the nail on the
head with is that Brian Denahey goes and buys John
Hurd's debt and is basically like, I now own you,
Tommy because I bought your dad's debt, So if you
don't fight for me. The loan Sharks, by the way,

(55:56):
the loan shark whose name is Sharky, I feel like,
if there's one misstep in the screen, I feel like
we could have been a little bit more creative with
the name of the loan Shark, because it's kind of
like calling a mobster Mobbi Joe Mobbi Masaria, Like, what
are we doing.

Speaker 4 (56:07):
I mean Pappy Jack.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
Okay, we haven't talked enough about Happy Jack. I'm fucking
back this whole goddamn.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Popcast, Happy Jack, Patty Jack.

Speaker 3 (56:17):
Is it Pappy Jack or Happy Jack? Pappy That's what
I thought, Pappy. So there is a diner in this movie.
There's another thing we love in movies. It's diners. And
this diner has everything. It has hot coffee, it has
great pie, asbestos, it has boxing promoter Robert Loj's office

(56:38):
booth where he screams obscenities into a rotary phone, and.

Speaker 4 (56:41):
That TV channel at the hotel.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
That's like about the.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
Hotel, because Jesus Christ, Pappy Jack. He's a cheesy character,
but I like him regardless.

Speaker 4 (56:51):
I like Robert Loci and everything. Though he's my over
the top guy.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
He's always the over the top guy, especially when he's
screaming things like same to you, Dick Bratt.

Speaker 4 (56:59):
Yeah, it's like he need like a Hector Alizondo type,
but a dick.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
So dick bag Alizondo is sitting at this diner. And
I just want to point out one thing from the
I got. I got this sheet back from my research team,
and under this section for Robert Loja. It says two
hundred and thirty five acting credits. Not much to add here,
you know him, and then the next bullet says, just
do the voice a bunch like, look, I don't. I
don't need permission from the research team to do terrible impressions.

(57:28):
Thank you very much, but yes, thank you for reminding
me that we almost forgot to talk about Robert Loja. Okay.

Speaker 4 (57:34):
I was like, Brian, can you do the impression please.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
There's a great moment in this movie where he just
throws a bag of peanut Eminem's at James Marshall. He's like, hey,
catch and then as soon as he catches, He's like,
oh you like Eminem's peanut, And I'm like, what the fuck?
He just feels like he feels like the absent dad
who like gets one weekend with the kids and is like,
I'm just gonna buy the first thing I see at
the at the news stand on the way home from

(57:59):
the subway. Oh, here's some peanut.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
Ms.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
Oh you like Eminem's peena, And here you go. Like
it's just such a fucking weird moment. I'm like, are you.

Speaker 4 (58:06):
Supposing that Robert Logia could have gone to like a
shittier place and like only bought in socks and then
thrown them at Tommy. And then once he caught them,
he goes, ah, Fox, you love socks. Look you caught them.

Speaker 3 (58:16):
Oh no, I gave you socks. Now you're free because
you're a house el fuck. I should have read those books.

Speaker 4 (58:21):
He just gas lights everybody into liking his presence by
throwing them at them. Then when they catch it, exclaimed
that they must like it.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
Here's a copy of Over the Top of Me Jesse,
you like go with the top.

Speaker 4 (58:33):
You would have dropped it if you didn't want it.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
Here's the here's the fifth season of The Sopranos. Are
you like the Sopranos? Ah, Caropono was on that season?
What Like, it's just Robert Loja just taking over the
movie for a little bit, And I appreciate him playing
a character this scummy.

Speaker 4 (58:48):
I just on the podcast, Yes, on the podcast, and
in the movie.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
Park has left the chat.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
I'm still here. I mean, I kind of gotta let
Greg get a word in its eventually, Well, no.

Speaker 4 (59:03):
I appreciate it, mostly because I figured Cargo was just
stepping back going Oh, this top eventually falls over.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
Look, I'm only doing this Robert Loja impression because success
comes not from what God has given you, but what
you do with it. And I am just doing what
God gave me. Is this Robert Loja impression, and what
I'm doing with it is nonsense. That's why we're here.

Speaker 4 (59:25):
Did you do a Brian Dennhey impression?

Speaker 3 (59:26):
No, but I think Patton Oswald can. If you haven't
heard that story, go fucking.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Google the That's a great story.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
But Patton Oswald Brian Denney's story is so fucking good.
Oh sidebar. I watched this movie for the first time
and then watched Silverado for the first time because it
was a sign to me in our mandatory film school
game that.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
We played what we covered Silverado?

Speaker 3 (59:54):
We have not covered Silverado because I had not seen fuck.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Man, that would that's to be next week's episode.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
It's so funny to me that we don't know our
own catalog, to the point that movies I hadn't even
seen were like, oh, we've definitely covered that. No. I
saw for the first time literally the next day, and
it was like a secret Brian denny He dirt Bag
double feature. Yeah, it was great. It was also.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Also dirt, Secret dirt bag, Brian Denny heat where it's
he seems like the nice guy up front every time.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
That's what he does. That's if Big Tom Callahan had
lived longer in that movie, I feel like he would
have done some strike busting or something like. He's always
kind of a secret dirt bag.

Speaker 4 (01:00:35):
Even though car Gil said it, but I want thirty
three percent of the shirts that say secret dirt bag
as well.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
You got it, buddy, Tommy wins He's free.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Nobody owns Tommy Riley.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
Nobody, And we get possibly the greatest freeze frame in
sports movie history.

Speaker 4 (01:00:53):
I mean, it's right up there with The Thunder It is.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
Right, which is a movie we have actually covered gard.
We get that handshake with just between Lincoln and Tommy,
freeze frame, tears flowing in the theater, and everybody goes
home thinking the world might be a slightly better place.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
I mean, that's how I saw it in nineteen ninety two.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
That's how I saw it in twenty twenty five.

Speaker 4 (01:01:16):
Admittedly, they shake hands and it's a really nice feeling
for all of us, but I also was just like,
I don't know, Tommy, you just cut off Abraham's money. Line,
and he's not gonna have a car anymore. You just
kind of ruined his life.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
We got to find another secret dirt bag, quick, Robert Loja,
find us another secret dirt bag. He killed his boss.
You know that's the thing about Greg. He always feels
bad for the money guy in the movie.

Speaker 4 (01:01:42):
I'd just like to think about the practical applications of
all of these decisions, because people are making those all
in a moment.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
I mean, has anyone thought about Pappy Jack at all?

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
We're not even thinking about the guy can't even afford
his own phone. He's using the phone at the diner.
Come on, guys, Pappy Jack, you gotta make that paper son.

Speaker 4 (01:02:03):
I'm just trying to think of my food pairing now.
I feel like I'm jumping ahead in the podcast and
get too excited about it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
My favorite fifty cent movie, Get Rich to Die Try
and like what, he's a fifty cent fan. I never
would have thought of that. Oh I love this movie.

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
Yeah, it's it's a warrior for nineteen ninety two.

Speaker 3 (01:02:21):
That would make a really great double feature. Actually, I
love that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:24):
Oh, it's just gonna make dudes cry a lot. It's
like movies that'll probably make a man cry, but he
gets to watch a bunch of cool like macho shit.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
I feel like the perfect afternoon triple feature would be
like Lionheart, Gladiator Warrior yeh, because there are three movies
that not only are dealing with a lot of the
same stuff and flow weal thematically, but all of their
titles feel like the coolest thing you could ever be called.

Speaker 4 (01:02:47):
And then you could go out with all your buddies
afterwards and be like, Hey, did your dad love you?
Do you want to talk about our feelings? And then
just sip a whisky and go.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Nah, do you guys have feelings? That's that's some sissy shit.

Speaker 4 (01:03:00):
He fought for his family when he said, you made
the wrong that killed me.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
Modern men, if you won't go to therapy, just watch
that triple feature You're welcome.

Speaker 4 (01:03:08):
Yeah, or just any junklud van Damn movie generally gets
you there.

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
Also true, And before we get to the junk food pairing,
I just have to share a little bit of head cannon.
There's part of me that thinks that John Hurd as
this deadbeat dad who keeps like running off and leaving
James Marshall on his own for months at a time, and.

Speaker 4 (01:03:25):
He's a salesman.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
He's a salesman, right, he's gambling, right, and it takes
place in Chicago, so I'm pretty sure. Oh yeah, here
McAllister was doing before he found that horde of Nazi
gold and then ran off to the suburbs with his
new wife and started his new family, leaving James Marshall behind.
Oh yeah, this is the Home Alone prequel.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Oh no, this is the same guy. This is this
is the same guy who this is? You know? Uh,
he had a kid out of wedlock that he shows
up for every once in a while. Make sure he's okay,
leaves him with his debts.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
I'm gonna go do some selling Kevin.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Kevin isn't paying those debts up.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Here's the thing. The movie mischaracterizes the Wet Bandits as thieves.
They are loan shark collection agents. They're coming for the
fucking money that John Hurd ohs down downtown, not in
the fucking suburbs, Okay, not in fucking El Card or
wherever the hell they're living, but in the goddamn suburb
and in fucking downtown Chicago.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
So we're putting Home Alone under their quadruple feature.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Now, yes, absolutely, was that not clear?

Speaker 4 (01:04:24):
Uh No, it wasn't, but I get it now. But no,
I mean it's just like heard scene in this movie
is so good because it's like he has so little
to say but communicate so maximalist, and it's like you
feel the weight of the man who's walking out the
door to go do this, and I don't know, he
just shattered me.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
One scene, so good. And that brings us to the
junk food pairing. And I'm actually gonna let you guys
go first because I struggled with this one a bit.
I mean, yeah, I'm just I'm gonna let you guys
tell me what yours is and then maybe I'll finally
land on one.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
I'm going with hot beef.

Speaker 4 (01:05:01):
Excuse you a hot beef.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Yeah, wet dipped this movie Chicago as fuck. It's a
good one.

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:05:10):
I didn't think about even going all like a like
a Chicago dog on there. But no, I was gonna
go kind of similar to you, where it was just
gonna be like a cold steak tartar, but with a
glass of Pappy Jack van Winkle.

Speaker 3 (01:05:22):
By the way, wet Dipped Beef sounds like the name
of the triple feature that we put forward on this
episode one.

Speaker 4 (01:05:29):
Of the bands that's on the soundtrack.

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
Or possibly one of the bands on the soundtrack. So
since y'all both went the savory route, those sort of
main course, I'll go with dessert, which is just a
pack of peanut eminems that Robert Loja flings at your head.

Speaker 4 (01:05:41):
I knew that bullshit was gonna be that. You love it,
you love the peanuts.

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
You'll like Eminem's peanut. It's peanut and Eminem's. Nobody says
Eminem's peanut. It's peanut, Eminem's Robert Loja, for God's sake, I.

Speaker 4 (01:05:53):
Grew through the wall.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
I say it how I stated.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
I'm looking. I'm looking at it right here, it's just Eminem's.
Then below it's just peanut.

Speaker 3 (01:06:04):
I mean, this shit kind of writes itself. Tell me
how to live my life. This is I am so
happy I saw this movie. I'm so happy we covered
this movie. I'm so happy it's just in my life now.

Speaker 4 (01:06:16):
I'm happy that the cult of Gladiator is growing and
more people are becoming aware of it, because the more
people see this movie, the more I think the world's
going to be a better place.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Yeah, I cannot stress enough that I have been talking
about this movie behind the scenes with Brian for a decade,
and so the fact that this finally happened fills my
heart with joy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
And I recommend that everyone listening to this episode, if
you haven't seen the movie, get on that shit immediately.
And Greg, thank you for being both of our cornermen
somehow in this one episode. We really appreciate you being here.

Speaker 4 (01:06:50):
Absolute pleasure to be both of your Aussie davis as
and guide you through this episode together.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
Do you want to tell people about anything you got
going on or where they can find you online?

Speaker 4 (01:06:59):
You can always find me at the McLennan on most
of the social media, and if you want to see
what I'm doing, I cut trailers and work on movies
and stuff, you can see me at electricowlcreative dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Hey, what was your last movie called?

Speaker 4 (01:07:13):
Oh, it's called were Wolves Not to Wear Wolves.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
And it's pretty fucking rad if you haven't seen it yet,
I'm a fan.

Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
Yeah, that movie kicked all kinds of ass.

Speaker 4 (01:07:22):
Thank you very much. That's amazing to hear. I am
very humble.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:07:26):
I can't wait to make another one.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Cargill, you can find me on Blue Sky at see
Robertcargill dot Blue Sky at Social. You can find my
latest movie, The Gorge on Apple Plus.

Speaker 4 (01:07:39):
It's The Gorge ISD Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
You can find my latest book coming out from Subterranean Press,
All the Ash We Leave Behind this July. You can
buy the limited edition hard copy of that now and Yeah,
that's where you can find me awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:07:55):
You can find me online at junk fits pretty much everywhere.
The podcast is on your favorite podcast. If you really like.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
The show, I mean you really like the show.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
You like it as much as I don't care for
that cover of In the Name of Love that's on
this soundtrack, But do actually kind of like the cover
of Oikomova that Gerardo does because I'm a sick individual.
You can go to Patriot. You can go to patreon
dot com slash Junk Food Cinema to support the show.
We greatly appreciate it. I'm gonna get out of here

(01:08:23):
giving you some sage advice from the Great Ozzie Davis.
Anger is the enemy, although currently my enemy is the
taco bell by my house that just decided they didn't
want to carry breakfast anymore. I guess we could just
do whatever the fuck we want. Now, that's great. No
crunch raps for this guy.